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American Morning
Yasser Arafat, 1929-2004; Scott Peterson Jury
Aired November 11, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. It's 7:30 here in New York. That blue flag is the flag of the United Nations here in Manhattan's east side, now lowered in honoring the passing of Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader who died overnight.
Welcome back, everybody.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, of course, that is our big story this morning. A lot of people are now wondering what kind of an impact that news will have in the Middle East and really around the world, but, of course, specifically with Arabs. This morning we talk to the Arab League's ambassador to the U.N.; also former Assistant Secretary of State Jamie Rubin.
HEMMER: And the plot thickens in California. We're talking about the Scott Peterson matter now. Yet another juror dismissed yesterday. Some observers think his replacement may have a conflict of interest now. So we'll talk to reporter Gloria Gomez about what is happening there in Redwood City.
But we want to get back to our top story again now. This morning, condolences from around the world with the news of Yasser Arafat's death. He died last night in Paris. His body to be flown later today to Cairo Egypt for a military funeral on Friday.
And our Cairo bureau chief, Ben Wedeman, now by way of videophone there with more on details of what we can expect on Friday.
Hello -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Bill.
We are expecting at 11:00 tomorrow morning that Egypt will be staging a state funeral, as it's described by officials here, for the Palestinian leader. We're told that many Arab heads of state will be attending, in addition to U.S. Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, and others from around the world.
Now, we have seen here in Cairo security has been dramatically beefed up. Preparations are being made at the Fifel (ph) mosque near Cairo International Airport on the edges of the city for this ceremony. Egyptian officials say the ceremony will not be particularly long.
And afterwards, the body of Yasser Arafat will be flown on an Egyptian military helicopter to Ramallah on the West Bank, where it will be buried -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ben Wedeman from Cairo. Thanks, Ben -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: What does Yasser Arafat's death mean for Mideast peace? Jamie Rubin is a former U.S. assistant secretary of state. And he was at Camp David over a decade ago during delicate negotiations there. He joins us from London this morning.
Jamie, nice to see you.
JAMIE RUBIN, FMR. ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE: Nice to be with you.
O'BRIEN: Let's first start with your reaction to the news this morning that Yasser Arafat died overnight.
RUBIN: Well, obviously, Yasser Arafat was an important symbol for the Palestinian people. And in that respect, it will be a sad day for many Palestinians. But I do think, analytically, it does open an opportunity now for the Palestinians to have a kind of leadership that will win respect in the world, for the Israelis to respond to the new Palestinian leadership, and for the American administration to do what many have thought for a long time, which is engage seriously in the peace process.
O'BRIEN: Before we speak specifically about that, let's speak bluntly then for a moment. Do you think then the Palestinian people in the long term are better off with the death of Yasser Arafat?
RUBIN: Well, I wouldn't want to put it so bluntly, but I would certainly say that I think his time has come and passed in terms of his political role. He played an important role for the Palestinians in bringing their cause to international attention and initiating the peace process in Oslo. But when the time came for the big decisions needed to lock in a Palestinian state, he wasn't up to it. And recently he hadn't shown the skill and wisdom to advance their cause.
O'BRIEN: Even his foes talk about a window of opportunity now with his death. What do you think that opportunity is? And what needs to be done to best leverage it now?
RUBIN: Well, I think this will require steps by all three parties, really. The Palestinians have to come up with a leadership that convinces Europeans, Americans and ultimately the Israelis that they are serious about fighting terrorism, that they are serious about the peace process. Abu Mazen, Mr. Abbas, is someone who may end up in the leadership role, and I think he's someone who the rest of the world will feel they can work with.
But the Israelis then will have to respond. The last time Prime Minister Abbas was in office and pursuing this path, the Israelis really did the barest minimum to build him up, to show him support by releasing prisoners, easing up closures and improving Palestinian lives.
On the American side for this administration, they have shown a very distinct reluctance to engage in the peace process, have sat back for years now. And if the steps I just described were to take place, I think there would be enormous pressure on them to engage in a very serious secretary of state presidential level initiative. And that's what I assume Tony Blair, the prime minister of Britain, is going to say to George Bush today.
O'BRIEN: What do you think happens now with the militants? Obviously a huge question and a huge factor in all of those negotiations.
RUBIN: Well, that's exactly right. And my guess is that in the immediate aftermath of a funeral and an attempt by the Palestinian people to come to grips with this new era that Hamas will and other extremist groups will not be launching suicide bomb attacks on Israelis in the immediate aftermath of Arafat's death. But whether the new prime minister will really have any leverage over them or ultimately what's going to really be necessary is a willingness to confront the extremists, who have done such terrible damage to the Palestinian cause and prevented Palestinians from getting their just rights and their -- the life they deserve.
The Palestinian leadership, the new leadership is going to have to confront that extremist element. So I would say there's a short window in which we shouldn't expect to see Hamas or other extremist groups attacking. But unless we have an effective Palestinian leadership to control them, we'll be back to the sad business as usual of pain and suffering on both sides soon enough.
O'BRIEN: They're going to have to fill the vacuum there. Jamie Rubin, former U.S. assistant secretary of state, joining us. Nice to see you, Jamie. Thanks.
RUBIN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Let's try and measure the impact of Arafat's death on the Arab world now. For insight, here in New York, Yahya Mahmassani is the Iraq - or rather, the Arab League ambassador to the U.N.
Nice to see you again, Mr. Ambassador. Good morning to you.
YAHYA MAHMASSANI, LEAGUE OF ARAB STATES: Good morning.
HEMMER: Already people are talking about this as a moment of opportunity. Do Arabs see it as the same way?
MAHMASSANI: Well, unfortunately it has always been that. It depends on the Israeli side. Arafat has always been (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and playing. He did his best to achieve peace with the Israelis. He accepted the road map. He accepted the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He accepted to come to the negotiating table. He accepted the peace process. This opportunity depends mostly on the Israelis.
HEMMER: But four years ago with Bill Clinton he came this close to doing the deal and backed away from it. MAHMASSANI: That's correct, because at this time it was not -- the deal was not in accordance with the objective. Arafat wanted to have a Palestinian state viable and which he could have Jerusalem as his state and where he could exercise authority. He wasn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) authority in Jerusalem. And that was why the deal didn't work, too. But still he was committed, and the Palestinians are committed to the peace process.
HEMMER: Bill Clinton expressed his regret, looking back on the year 2000, about how close they got.
Here's what the current president says: "The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinian history. For the Palestinian people we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspiration for an independent democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors." That from President Bush to the Palestinian people.
Did Yasser Arafat get in the way?
MAHMASSANI: Right. Let's put it this way: Yasser Arafat attempted -- he did not leave a single cornerstone uncovered. He tried everything to achieve peace. In fact, the legacy of Mr. Arafat -- of President Arafat is that he was a man of peace. What he tried to do is have a viable state for the Palestinian people. He wanted to liberate his country. He wanted to free his people. But this, again, he was -- actually the bottleneck here is the Israeli government, the present Israeli government.
HEMMER: As we look at the Palestinian leadership today, how strong are the new leaders?
MAHMASSANI: Well, I think that the new leadership, this is the biggest challenge of the Palestinian people is to elect a new leadership, stand by it and support it. I think -- and this probably was going to happen. The Palestinian people, remember, are committed to liberating their country. They have no other choice. And therefore, they'll put all of their differences aside and support the new leadership.
The main objective is to be free. This is not a normal situation. This is not a free country. So the basic issue here, all differences will be put aside, and the main objective is to liberate Palestine.
HEMMER: And finally, if this is considered to be a new beginning in the Arab world, how do the Arab states help the Palestinian people now?
MAHMASSANI: Well, the Arab states have been always supporting the Palestinian people. Financially, politically, we have been standing with them. These are our brothers. And they have a righteous course. In fact, the Arab states helped put the peace initiative -- you remember the peace initiative of the summit in Beirut, where we said let's have peace (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in accordance with the Madrid conference and in accordance with the resolution 242 of the Security Council. Give us our land and you'll have peace. It's simple. The Arab states stand by the Palestinians, and they do seek peace with the Israelis.
HEMMER: Yahya Mahmassani, we will continue to follow it. It is a fascinating day today to consider the future now for the Palestinian people. Thanks for your time.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: I want to get over to Heidi Collins now, other news now.
Heidi -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Bill. And good morning, everybody.
"Now in the News."
An explosion rips through central Baghdad, killing at least a dozen people. Officials say at least eight others were wounded in a car bomb attack. The blast apparently just missed a U.S. convoy, which had passed through moments earlier.
And in Falluja, U.S. troops rooting out insurgents. Military officials say they have found slaughterhouses used by kidnappers to hold and then kill hostages. At least one imprisoned hostage has been freed.
To California now, where a man with a distant tie to Scott Peterson will replace the head juror in a double-murder trial. It's not clear why juror No. 5, identified as Gregory Jackson, was let go. Jackson will be replaced, though, by a 53-year-old man, whose son-in- law once worked for the Petersons. The man says he never met the defendant. We'll have a live reporting coming up from Redwood City in just a few moments.
The terror alert level has been reduced in several key cities now. New York, Washington, D.C. and northern New Jersey are now under yellow or elevated threat levels. They had been under orange or high threat levels for the past three months. Federal authorities say additional security precautions have reduced the threat.
And a meeting between two key allies. President Bush expected to hold talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair at the White House. The discussions will focus on Middle East peace efforts. Within the next two hours, President Bush will head to Arlington National Cemetery. He will take part in a wreath-laying ceremony there, of course, in observance of Veterans Day. And what a wonderful tradition it is.
Back to you guys.
O'BRIEN: Thank you.
(WEATHER REPORT) HEMMER: In a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING, the story behind what may have caused the Peterson jury to turn on the man it once picked as its foreman. Fascinating again, huh? Go figure.
O'BRIEN: Is it fair to say bizarre now as we get into the Peterson trial?
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And John Walton. His father's goal when he founded Wal-Mart was to amass a fortune, but his goal is to give it all away. A look at that's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Disorder in the court. Another juror, the second in two days, removed from the jury deliberating the double-murder case against Scott Peterson. This time it's the jury foreman.
Reporter Gloria Gomez with Sacramento TV station KOVR joins us from Redwood City in California to talk about it.
I think it's fair to call these pretty stunning developments, Gloria. Nice to see you. Good morning.
GLORIA GOMEZ, REPORTER, KOVR-TV: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Is it fair to say bizarre and chaotic? Am I going out on a limb here?
GOMEZ: No, not at all. It was absolutely stunning in the courtroom. I mean, this is two jurors going down back-to-back. And clearly nobody expected juror No. 5 to be out, and that's because he's a doctor...
O'BRIEN: He was the foreman, right?
GOMEZ: Right, he's the foreman. He's the doctor and the lawyer. He's the guy that was supposed to take this jury step-by-step, really schooling this jury not only on the law, but also on the medical evidence. And clearly that was important in this case. And now he's out.
Now, just to make it clear, the judge never said exactly why juror No. 5 was out. But he did hint that some jurors had given him notes that led to his dismissal, which we thought was very interesting. Maybe even a jury revolt against juror No. 5.
O'BRIEN: So now juror No. 6 moves into the foreman's position. What can you tell us about juror No. 6?
GOMEZ: That's even more stunning, because clearly you have doctor/lawyer who is, you know, taking meticulous notes, and you have you the complete opposite with juror No. 6. He's a guy that looked bored throughout this entire process. He rarely took notes, looked bored, basically chewed his fingernails throughout most of this testimony. He just looked like did he not want to be there. Now this guy is the leader of the group.
O'BRIEN: They took an alternate juror and moved him into the jury pool. So he now moves into No. 6's original position. What's this new juror like?
GOMEZ: Well, this is interesting, because he actually has a link to the Petersons. Apparently his future son-in-law actually used to work for Laci and Scott Peterson when they owned this burger joint back in San Luis Obispo when they lived there. And so now this guy is taking the place of No. 5. So he's a new No. 5. And so it's interesting to see whether or not that will influence him in the decision-making. We'll have to wait and see for that, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: There are reports of -- I'm not even sure how to describe this -- a 14-foot boat that's similar to the one that was once owned by Scott Peterson parked in a parking lot on property owned by Mark Geragos. What's going on with this boat?
GOMEZ: Well, first let me explain the reason why this boat even surfaced is simply because Mark Geragos was trying to show this jury that if you would toss an object or a body out of a boat that it would capsize, that there's no way like the prosecution says Scott Peterson could have done this without capsizing the boat. They actually did a demonstration of this.
But the boat ended up right here in this parking lot about a block -- I would say a little bit over a block from the courthouse. So clearly this outraged a lot of people, because there were props inside this boat. They had...
O'BRIEN: We've been looking at some of them, Gloria, while you're talking. I mean, the things that we see wrapped in the blue tarp, those are supposed to be the bodies, right, in the demonstration.
GOMEZ: Absolutely there's a prop, you know, it almost looks like a body, a headless body. And then you've got -- you know, it's wrapped in a tarp with duct tape. You've got two concrete anchors. You've even got a toolbox.
And, you know, it's clearly visibly upsetting a lot of people out here. They started putting notes and posters on there, negative signs towards Scott Peterson, murderer and other things as well. And then, all of a sudden it shifted to this makeshift memorial for Laci Peterson. It almost was covered with flowers and mementos and teddy bears. And then it was removed last night.
O'BRIEN: All of this going on, as you say, just a block and a bit from the courtroom, where all of these deliberations and the drama, I think it's fair to say, is going on. Gloria Gomez always trying to shed a little light on this for us. Thanks. We appreciate it.
GOMEZ: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: Bill. HEMMER: Only in California, huh?
In a moment here, more an Andy's profile of America's richest family. The Wal-Mart fortune's No. 1 priority outside of those everyday low prices. Andy is up after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: This morning, our weeklong glimpse into America's richest family, the Waltons, continues. Today, a look at the life of another son of Sam Walton. Today we'll look at John Walton.
Andy Serwer back with us "Minding Your Business." The story is in "Fortune," and it's only here on AMERICAN MORNING. And this man has a fascinating life.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Bill.
John Walton is probably the most interesting family member. That's what people say. He's the middle son of Sam and Helen Walton. And like his two brothers -- there he is on the left. Like his two brothers, an all-state football player.
He is the point person now on the family's philanthropic efforts. The family has been giving away money for years, but they've just sort of begun to get into the big leagues of philanthropy. Last year they gave a $300 million gift to the University of Arkansas. But that isn't the real focus of their philanthropy. The real focus is K through 12 education, and this is what John Walton is very passionate about. You can see him here.
I was with him in a school in Arkansas in the Delta region. This is a CIT (ph) program, a charter school down there. And this is controversial stuff, but it's trying to incentivize the public schools across the nation by creating competition. And he is traveling around the country and working on that very passionately.
HEMMER: That's one thing he talks about. One thing he does not talk about very often -- and you pointed out in your article -- his involvement in Southeast Asia. Some 35 years ago, he was in some deep stuff.
SERWER: Yes. And I was reporting this during the whole Swift Boat controversy and National Guard stuff during the election. So it was very, very interesting.
John dropped out of Wooster College in Ohio and volunteered to go to Vietnam. Wouldn't talk to me about it at all. I found out during reporting that he was a Green Beret and a Special Forces operative, part of the unit that was to be disavowed by the U.S. government if he was ever captured. He was dropped into Laos and Cambodia on repeated missions. There were constantly firefights going on.
On one mission I discovered that he was dropped into Laos in the Ashaw (ph) Valley, surrounded by Vietnamese troops -- North Vietnamese troops. Several members of the unit were killed right away. A couple of others were wounded. He saved their lives. A helicopter came in to pull them out, and he couldn't pull out the whole group. They came back and barely got him and his group out over the treetops with North Vietnamese soldiers firing.
He got a Silver Star for his trouble. And, again, he does not like to talk about this at all. But really incredible stuff.
HEMMER: And very, very lucky to be alive, as you know.
SERWER: Indeed, he really is.
HEMMER: Tomorrow, Alice Walton, we hear about her, right? The only daughter?
SERWER: Yes, the only daughter of the clan and a maverick and interesting stuff. We'll get to that tomorrow.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy. Good stuff.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: You know, this is much better than "The Walton" TV series.
SERWER: Yes, it's a little bit more than just "Good-night, John Boy ".
CAFFERTY: It is, absolutely. Much better.
SERWER: Thanks.
CAFFERTY: I like this.
Current plans call for Yasser Arafat to be buried into his compound in Ramallah, which they plan to turn into some kind of a shrine. Maybe they'll post a sign out front for the Palestinian people, something like "here lies the body of the thief who robbed you blind."
While the Palestinian people eat rocks for dinner, they're among the poorest people in the world. Authorities are trying to figure out what Arafat did with billions of dollars that nobody knows what happened to. Unaccounted for. He had several financial advisors, but none of them knew the whole story. Each of them only managed a piece. Billions of dollars.
Do you know what a billion dollars would buy in the town of Ramallah among the ordinary Palestinian people there?
Anyway, the question is this: How will Yasser Arafat's death affect the Middle East?
Mark in New York writes: "For those of us who remember Arafat placing a gun on the podium at the U.N. and the slaughter of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, his death can only bring hope that less bloody-minded leaders can actually help Palestinians achieve a nation of their own by peaceful means."
Moses in Lithonia, Georgia: "Jack, you were unduly harsh on Arafat. For God's sake, the man is dead. Respect the dead. His alleged corruption notwithstanding Arafat would be remember as a fierce fighter who dedicated his entire life to the liberation of his people from the yolk of oppression."
That and lining his own pockets with billions of dollars of stolen money.
Harold in Poughkeepsie writes: "Arafat, the terrorist. One more terrorist down, many more to go. We should not send anyone to his funeral on behalf of the United States. That's condoning and recognizing terrorists and condoning the deaths of so many people who have fought and died at their hands. The world is now a little better place."
And Roger writes from Pittsburgh, Kansas: "The effect of Arafat's passing on the Middle East is unknowable. You cannot know it, Jack. It's not one of those unknowns that you can know. It's an unknowable unknown that you cannot know. Do I have to get Rumsfeld to explain this to you?"
HEMMER: Williams Burns, U.S. secretary of state, is going to be at the funeral tomorrow.
CAFFERTY: Somebody sent a very funny letter about sending -- they should send Bill Clinton to the funeral; that way he could kiss Arafat's what-you-ma-call-it one more time.
HEMMER: My gosh!
CAFFERTY: But we decided not to use that. But since you brought it up...
O'BRIEN: Or to talk about it.
HEMMER: How appropriate that we hear from Moses on a day like today.
CAFFERTY: Yes, well...
HEMMER: All done.
Let's get a break. In a moment here, the latest on Arafat, what's happening overseas. Also, the once peaceful Netherlands at the heart of a series of terrorist attacks. Its problems, we are told, may reveal clues to the next wave of terror. We'll get to that at the top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired November 11, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. It's 7:30 here in New York. That blue flag is the flag of the United Nations here in Manhattan's east side, now lowered in honoring the passing of Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader who died overnight.
Welcome back, everybody.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, of course, that is our big story this morning. A lot of people are now wondering what kind of an impact that news will have in the Middle East and really around the world, but, of course, specifically with Arabs. This morning we talk to the Arab League's ambassador to the U.N.; also former Assistant Secretary of State Jamie Rubin.
HEMMER: And the plot thickens in California. We're talking about the Scott Peterson matter now. Yet another juror dismissed yesterday. Some observers think his replacement may have a conflict of interest now. So we'll talk to reporter Gloria Gomez about what is happening there in Redwood City.
But we want to get back to our top story again now. This morning, condolences from around the world with the news of Yasser Arafat's death. He died last night in Paris. His body to be flown later today to Cairo Egypt for a military funeral on Friday.
And our Cairo bureau chief, Ben Wedeman, now by way of videophone there with more on details of what we can expect on Friday.
Hello -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Bill.
We are expecting at 11:00 tomorrow morning that Egypt will be staging a state funeral, as it's described by officials here, for the Palestinian leader. We're told that many Arab heads of state will be attending, in addition to U.S. Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, and others from around the world.
Now, we have seen here in Cairo security has been dramatically beefed up. Preparations are being made at the Fifel (ph) mosque near Cairo International Airport on the edges of the city for this ceremony. Egyptian officials say the ceremony will not be particularly long.
And afterwards, the body of Yasser Arafat will be flown on an Egyptian military helicopter to Ramallah on the West Bank, where it will be buried -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ben Wedeman from Cairo. Thanks, Ben -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: What does Yasser Arafat's death mean for Mideast peace? Jamie Rubin is a former U.S. assistant secretary of state. And he was at Camp David over a decade ago during delicate negotiations there. He joins us from London this morning.
Jamie, nice to see you.
JAMIE RUBIN, FMR. ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE: Nice to be with you.
O'BRIEN: Let's first start with your reaction to the news this morning that Yasser Arafat died overnight.
RUBIN: Well, obviously, Yasser Arafat was an important symbol for the Palestinian people. And in that respect, it will be a sad day for many Palestinians. But I do think, analytically, it does open an opportunity now for the Palestinians to have a kind of leadership that will win respect in the world, for the Israelis to respond to the new Palestinian leadership, and for the American administration to do what many have thought for a long time, which is engage seriously in the peace process.
O'BRIEN: Before we speak specifically about that, let's speak bluntly then for a moment. Do you think then the Palestinian people in the long term are better off with the death of Yasser Arafat?
RUBIN: Well, I wouldn't want to put it so bluntly, but I would certainly say that I think his time has come and passed in terms of his political role. He played an important role for the Palestinians in bringing their cause to international attention and initiating the peace process in Oslo. But when the time came for the big decisions needed to lock in a Palestinian state, he wasn't up to it. And recently he hadn't shown the skill and wisdom to advance their cause.
O'BRIEN: Even his foes talk about a window of opportunity now with his death. What do you think that opportunity is? And what needs to be done to best leverage it now?
RUBIN: Well, I think this will require steps by all three parties, really. The Palestinians have to come up with a leadership that convinces Europeans, Americans and ultimately the Israelis that they are serious about fighting terrorism, that they are serious about the peace process. Abu Mazen, Mr. Abbas, is someone who may end up in the leadership role, and I think he's someone who the rest of the world will feel they can work with.
But the Israelis then will have to respond. The last time Prime Minister Abbas was in office and pursuing this path, the Israelis really did the barest minimum to build him up, to show him support by releasing prisoners, easing up closures and improving Palestinian lives.
On the American side for this administration, they have shown a very distinct reluctance to engage in the peace process, have sat back for years now. And if the steps I just described were to take place, I think there would be enormous pressure on them to engage in a very serious secretary of state presidential level initiative. And that's what I assume Tony Blair, the prime minister of Britain, is going to say to George Bush today.
O'BRIEN: What do you think happens now with the militants? Obviously a huge question and a huge factor in all of those negotiations.
RUBIN: Well, that's exactly right. And my guess is that in the immediate aftermath of a funeral and an attempt by the Palestinian people to come to grips with this new era that Hamas will and other extremist groups will not be launching suicide bomb attacks on Israelis in the immediate aftermath of Arafat's death. But whether the new prime minister will really have any leverage over them or ultimately what's going to really be necessary is a willingness to confront the extremists, who have done such terrible damage to the Palestinian cause and prevented Palestinians from getting their just rights and their -- the life they deserve.
The Palestinian leadership, the new leadership is going to have to confront that extremist element. So I would say there's a short window in which we shouldn't expect to see Hamas or other extremist groups attacking. But unless we have an effective Palestinian leadership to control them, we'll be back to the sad business as usual of pain and suffering on both sides soon enough.
O'BRIEN: They're going to have to fill the vacuum there. Jamie Rubin, former U.S. assistant secretary of state, joining us. Nice to see you, Jamie. Thanks.
RUBIN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Let's try and measure the impact of Arafat's death on the Arab world now. For insight, here in New York, Yahya Mahmassani is the Iraq - or rather, the Arab League ambassador to the U.N.
Nice to see you again, Mr. Ambassador. Good morning to you.
YAHYA MAHMASSANI, LEAGUE OF ARAB STATES: Good morning.
HEMMER: Already people are talking about this as a moment of opportunity. Do Arabs see it as the same way?
MAHMASSANI: Well, unfortunately it has always been that. It depends on the Israeli side. Arafat has always been (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and playing. He did his best to achieve peace with the Israelis. He accepted the road map. He accepted the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He accepted to come to the negotiating table. He accepted the peace process. This opportunity depends mostly on the Israelis.
HEMMER: But four years ago with Bill Clinton he came this close to doing the deal and backed away from it. MAHMASSANI: That's correct, because at this time it was not -- the deal was not in accordance with the objective. Arafat wanted to have a Palestinian state viable and which he could have Jerusalem as his state and where he could exercise authority. He wasn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) authority in Jerusalem. And that was why the deal didn't work, too. But still he was committed, and the Palestinians are committed to the peace process.
HEMMER: Bill Clinton expressed his regret, looking back on the year 2000, about how close they got.
Here's what the current president says: "The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinian history. For the Palestinian people we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspiration for an independent democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors." That from President Bush to the Palestinian people.
Did Yasser Arafat get in the way?
MAHMASSANI: Right. Let's put it this way: Yasser Arafat attempted -- he did not leave a single cornerstone uncovered. He tried everything to achieve peace. In fact, the legacy of Mr. Arafat -- of President Arafat is that he was a man of peace. What he tried to do is have a viable state for the Palestinian people. He wanted to liberate his country. He wanted to free his people. But this, again, he was -- actually the bottleneck here is the Israeli government, the present Israeli government.
HEMMER: As we look at the Palestinian leadership today, how strong are the new leaders?
MAHMASSANI: Well, I think that the new leadership, this is the biggest challenge of the Palestinian people is to elect a new leadership, stand by it and support it. I think -- and this probably was going to happen. The Palestinian people, remember, are committed to liberating their country. They have no other choice. And therefore, they'll put all of their differences aside and support the new leadership.
The main objective is to be free. This is not a normal situation. This is not a free country. So the basic issue here, all differences will be put aside, and the main objective is to liberate Palestine.
HEMMER: And finally, if this is considered to be a new beginning in the Arab world, how do the Arab states help the Palestinian people now?
MAHMASSANI: Well, the Arab states have been always supporting the Palestinian people. Financially, politically, we have been standing with them. These are our brothers. And they have a righteous course. In fact, the Arab states helped put the peace initiative -- you remember the peace initiative of the summit in Beirut, where we said let's have peace (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in accordance with the Madrid conference and in accordance with the resolution 242 of the Security Council. Give us our land and you'll have peace. It's simple. The Arab states stand by the Palestinians, and they do seek peace with the Israelis.
HEMMER: Yahya Mahmassani, we will continue to follow it. It is a fascinating day today to consider the future now for the Palestinian people. Thanks for your time.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: I want to get over to Heidi Collins now, other news now.
Heidi -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Bill. And good morning, everybody.
"Now in the News."
An explosion rips through central Baghdad, killing at least a dozen people. Officials say at least eight others were wounded in a car bomb attack. The blast apparently just missed a U.S. convoy, which had passed through moments earlier.
And in Falluja, U.S. troops rooting out insurgents. Military officials say they have found slaughterhouses used by kidnappers to hold and then kill hostages. At least one imprisoned hostage has been freed.
To California now, where a man with a distant tie to Scott Peterson will replace the head juror in a double-murder trial. It's not clear why juror No. 5, identified as Gregory Jackson, was let go. Jackson will be replaced, though, by a 53-year-old man, whose son-in- law once worked for the Petersons. The man says he never met the defendant. We'll have a live reporting coming up from Redwood City in just a few moments.
The terror alert level has been reduced in several key cities now. New York, Washington, D.C. and northern New Jersey are now under yellow or elevated threat levels. They had been under orange or high threat levels for the past three months. Federal authorities say additional security precautions have reduced the threat.
And a meeting between two key allies. President Bush expected to hold talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair at the White House. The discussions will focus on Middle East peace efforts. Within the next two hours, President Bush will head to Arlington National Cemetery. He will take part in a wreath-laying ceremony there, of course, in observance of Veterans Day. And what a wonderful tradition it is.
Back to you guys.
O'BRIEN: Thank you.
(WEATHER REPORT) HEMMER: In a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING, the story behind what may have caused the Peterson jury to turn on the man it once picked as its foreman. Fascinating again, huh? Go figure.
O'BRIEN: Is it fair to say bizarre now as we get into the Peterson trial?
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And John Walton. His father's goal when he founded Wal-Mart was to amass a fortune, but his goal is to give it all away. A look at that's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Disorder in the court. Another juror, the second in two days, removed from the jury deliberating the double-murder case against Scott Peterson. This time it's the jury foreman.
Reporter Gloria Gomez with Sacramento TV station KOVR joins us from Redwood City in California to talk about it.
I think it's fair to call these pretty stunning developments, Gloria. Nice to see you. Good morning.
GLORIA GOMEZ, REPORTER, KOVR-TV: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Is it fair to say bizarre and chaotic? Am I going out on a limb here?
GOMEZ: No, not at all. It was absolutely stunning in the courtroom. I mean, this is two jurors going down back-to-back. And clearly nobody expected juror No. 5 to be out, and that's because he's a doctor...
O'BRIEN: He was the foreman, right?
GOMEZ: Right, he's the foreman. He's the doctor and the lawyer. He's the guy that was supposed to take this jury step-by-step, really schooling this jury not only on the law, but also on the medical evidence. And clearly that was important in this case. And now he's out.
Now, just to make it clear, the judge never said exactly why juror No. 5 was out. But he did hint that some jurors had given him notes that led to his dismissal, which we thought was very interesting. Maybe even a jury revolt against juror No. 5.
O'BRIEN: So now juror No. 6 moves into the foreman's position. What can you tell us about juror No. 6?
GOMEZ: That's even more stunning, because clearly you have doctor/lawyer who is, you know, taking meticulous notes, and you have you the complete opposite with juror No. 6. He's a guy that looked bored throughout this entire process. He rarely took notes, looked bored, basically chewed his fingernails throughout most of this testimony. He just looked like did he not want to be there. Now this guy is the leader of the group.
O'BRIEN: They took an alternate juror and moved him into the jury pool. So he now moves into No. 6's original position. What's this new juror like?
GOMEZ: Well, this is interesting, because he actually has a link to the Petersons. Apparently his future son-in-law actually used to work for Laci and Scott Peterson when they owned this burger joint back in San Luis Obispo when they lived there. And so now this guy is taking the place of No. 5. So he's a new No. 5. And so it's interesting to see whether or not that will influence him in the decision-making. We'll have to wait and see for that, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: There are reports of -- I'm not even sure how to describe this -- a 14-foot boat that's similar to the one that was once owned by Scott Peterson parked in a parking lot on property owned by Mark Geragos. What's going on with this boat?
GOMEZ: Well, first let me explain the reason why this boat even surfaced is simply because Mark Geragos was trying to show this jury that if you would toss an object or a body out of a boat that it would capsize, that there's no way like the prosecution says Scott Peterson could have done this without capsizing the boat. They actually did a demonstration of this.
But the boat ended up right here in this parking lot about a block -- I would say a little bit over a block from the courthouse. So clearly this outraged a lot of people, because there were props inside this boat. They had...
O'BRIEN: We've been looking at some of them, Gloria, while you're talking. I mean, the things that we see wrapped in the blue tarp, those are supposed to be the bodies, right, in the demonstration.
GOMEZ: Absolutely there's a prop, you know, it almost looks like a body, a headless body. And then you've got -- you know, it's wrapped in a tarp with duct tape. You've got two concrete anchors. You've even got a toolbox.
And, you know, it's clearly visibly upsetting a lot of people out here. They started putting notes and posters on there, negative signs towards Scott Peterson, murderer and other things as well. And then, all of a sudden it shifted to this makeshift memorial for Laci Peterson. It almost was covered with flowers and mementos and teddy bears. And then it was removed last night.
O'BRIEN: All of this going on, as you say, just a block and a bit from the courtroom, where all of these deliberations and the drama, I think it's fair to say, is going on. Gloria Gomez always trying to shed a little light on this for us. Thanks. We appreciate it.
GOMEZ: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: Bill. HEMMER: Only in California, huh?
In a moment here, more an Andy's profile of America's richest family. The Wal-Mart fortune's No. 1 priority outside of those everyday low prices. Andy is up after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: This morning, our weeklong glimpse into America's richest family, the Waltons, continues. Today, a look at the life of another son of Sam Walton. Today we'll look at John Walton.
Andy Serwer back with us "Minding Your Business." The story is in "Fortune," and it's only here on AMERICAN MORNING. And this man has a fascinating life.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Bill.
John Walton is probably the most interesting family member. That's what people say. He's the middle son of Sam and Helen Walton. And like his two brothers -- there he is on the left. Like his two brothers, an all-state football player.
He is the point person now on the family's philanthropic efforts. The family has been giving away money for years, but they've just sort of begun to get into the big leagues of philanthropy. Last year they gave a $300 million gift to the University of Arkansas. But that isn't the real focus of their philanthropy. The real focus is K through 12 education, and this is what John Walton is very passionate about. You can see him here.
I was with him in a school in Arkansas in the Delta region. This is a CIT (ph) program, a charter school down there. And this is controversial stuff, but it's trying to incentivize the public schools across the nation by creating competition. And he is traveling around the country and working on that very passionately.
HEMMER: That's one thing he talks about. One thing he does not talk about very often -- and you pointed out in your article -- his involvement in Southeast Asia. Some 35 years ago, he was in some deep stuff.
SERWER: Yes. And I was reporting this during the whole Swift Boat controversy and National Guard stuff during the election. So it was very, very interesting.
John dropped out of Wooster College in Ohio and volunteered to go to Vietnam. Wouldn't talk to me about it at all. I found out during reporting that he was a Green Beret and a Special Forces operative, part of the unit that was to be disavowed by the U.S. government if he was ever captured. He was dropped into Laos and Cambodia on repeated missions. There were constantly firefights going on.
On one mission I discovered that he was dropped into Laos in the Ashaw (ph) Valley, surrounded by Vietnamese troops -- North Vietnamese troops. Several members of the unit were killed right away. A couple of others were wounded. He saved their lives. A helicopter came in to pull them out, and he couldn't pull out the whole group. They came back and barely got him and his group out over the treetops with North Vietnamese soldiers firing.
He got a Silver Star for his trouble. And, again, he does not like to talk about this at all. But really incredible stuff.
HEMMER: And very, very lucky to be alive, as you know.
SERWER: Indeed, he really is.
HEMMER: Tomorrow, Alice Walton, we hear about her, right? The only daughter?
SERWER: Yes, the only daughter of the clan and a maverick and interesting stuff. We'll get to that tomorrow.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy. Good stuff.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: You know, this is much better than "The Walton" TV series.
SERWER: Yes, it's a little bit more than just "Good-night, John Boy ".
CAFFERTY: It is, absolutely. Much better.
SERWER: Thanks.
CAFFERTY: I like this.
Current plans call for Yasser Arafat to be buried into his compound in Ramallah, which they plan to turn into some kind of a shrine. Maybe they'll post a sign out front for the Palestinian people, something like "here lies the body of the thief who robbed you blind."
While the Palestinian people eat rocks for dinner, they're among the poorest people in the world. Authorities are trying to figure out what Arafat did with billions of dollars that nobody knows what happened to. Unaccounted for. He had several financial advisors, but none of them knew the whole story. Each of them only managed a piece. Billions of dollars.
Do you know what a billion dollars would buy in the town of Ramallah among the ordinary Palestinian people there?
Anyway, the question is this: How will Yasser Arafat's death affect the Middle East?
Mark in New York writes: "For those of us who remember Arafat placing a gun on the podium at the U.N. and the slaughter of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, his death can only bring hope that less bloody-minded leaders can actually help Palestinians achieve a nation of their own by peaceful means."
Moses in Lithonia, Georgia: "Jack, you were unduly harsh on Arafat. For God's sake, the man is dead. Respect the dead. His alleged corruption notwithstanding Arafat would be remember as a fierce fighter who dedicated his entire life to the liberation of his people from the yolk of oppression."
That and lining his own pockets with billions of dollars of stolen money.
Harold in Poughkeepsie writes: "Arafat, the terrorist. One more terrorist down, many more to go. We should not send anyone to his funeral on behalf of the United States. That's condoning and recognizing terrorists and condoning the deaths of so many people who have fought and died at their hands. The world is now a little better place."
And Roger writes from Pittsburgh, Kansas: "The effect of Arafat's passing on the Middle East is unknowable. You cannot know it, Jack. It's not one of those unknowns that you can know. It's an unknowable unknown that you cannot know. Do I have to get Rumsfeld to explain this to you?"
HEMMER: Williams Burns, U.S. secretary of state, is going to be at the funeral tomorrow.
CAFFERTY: Somebody sent a very funny letter about sending -- they should send Bill Clinton to the funeral; that way he could kiss Arafat's what-you-ma-call-it one more time.
HEMMER: My gosh!
CAFFERTY: But we decided not to use that. But since you brought it up...
O'BRIEN: Or to talk about it.
HEMMER: How appropriate that we hear from Moses on a day like today.
CAFFERTY: Yes, well...
HEMMER: All done.
Let's get a break. In a moment here, the latest on Arafat, what's happening overseas. Also, the once peaceful Netherlands at the heart of a series of terrorist attacks. Its problems, we are told, may reveal clues to the next wave of terror. We'll get to that at the top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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