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CNN Live Today
Bush/Blair Meeting; Chaotic Scene at Yasser Arafat's Burial Site
Aired November 12, 2004 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening right "Now in the News."
The president and the prime minister of Great Britain talk about new prospects for peace in the Middle East. The war in Iraq is also on the agenda, as Britain's Tony Blair meets with the president. They are expected to talk to reporters in less than 30 minutes. And we are going to have live coverage.
And emotion erupts into chaos as Palestinians pay a final tribute to their leader Yasser Arafat. Crowds swarmed the helicopter that carried Arafat's coffin to the West Bank compound where he was buried. We are going to have a live report from Ramallah just ahead.
And right now, U.S. forces are battling small cells of insurgents as they plow their way through southern Falluja. Troops are going door-to-door and building-to-building, searching for weapons caches. The military says 18 U.S. troops and at least five Iraqi soldiers have been killed in the Falluja offensive so far.
And the jury in the Scott Peterson murder trial starts all over again this hour. Deliberations are set to resume after two jurors were dismissed this week. And yet another bizarre twist. A replica of Scott Peterson's boat was removed from a nearby parking lot after it was turned into a shrine for Laci Peterson.
It's 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast, 8:00 a.m. out West. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin, in today for Daryn and Rick.
All right. Let's get started at the White House this hour, where British Prime Minister Tony Blair is pressing President Bush to seize the moment in the Middle East. Tony Blair wants the U.S. to be more hands-on with the peace process after the death of Yasser Arafat. Both leaders were -- will talk to reporters in about 25 minutes, and we're going to carry that live.
But right now, we want to bring you a report from our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Middle East after Arafat is a major folks with talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a close ally, but also among European leaders who want President Bush to devote more time and energy on peacemaking. In a statement, Mr. Bush offered condolences to the Palestinian people and said his hope that they can finally realize their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors.
The president never hid his contempt for Arafat, but says there is a diplomatic opening now if the new Palestinian leadership is committed to reform and peace. Administration officials privately voice hope that longtime deputy Mahmoud Abbas emerges as the new leader. Mr. Bush spoke highly of Abbas during his brief tenure as Palestinian prime minister. But the public White House position is that the Palestinians must make that choice.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: If we put our stamp of approval in a very public way upon a particular individual, that could doom that individual's prospects for becoming a leader of the Palestinians. He could be seen as the American stooge.
KING: As Mr. Bush faces new pressure to take a lead role in peacemaking, he is, not surprisingly, getting conflicting advice. The Palestinians want pressure on Israel.
HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN, PALESTINIAN REP. TO U.S.: Stop building Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories. Stop assassinating Palestinian community leaders. Stop demolishing Palestinian homes.
KING: But Israel's ambassador to the United States says Mr. Bush would step in only if the new Palestinian leadership first proves its commitment to peace.
DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: The fundamental issue is to end the Palestinian terrorism, to dismantle the terrorists, the Palestinian terrorist organizations, stop the incitement, and then the sky is the limit.
KAGAN: Already there are European complaints that Mr. Bush is only sending a midlevel delegation to the Arafat funeral, led by Assistant Secretary of State William Burns.
(on camera): Officials say the administration will prove its commitment to diplomacy once the Palestinians have new leaders and will not pretend it thought more highly of Mr. Arafat, a man the president considered an obstacle to peace and a terrorist.
John King, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: I'm going to talk to senior White House correspondent John King live right before the Bush-Blair news conference gets under way, which could be early. So please stay with us. The session with reporters is set for 11:25 Eastern in the White House East Room. That's about 15 minutes from now, but again, stand by, because we're getting word that it may happen sooner.
Now, Mr. Blair is the first world leader to call on the White House since voters reelected the president. And obviously that demonstrates a close friendship that could be a political headache for the prime minister, who himself faces voters pretty soon himself.
CNN senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers in London this morning.
Walt, good to have you back in this hour. Prime Minister Tony Blair...
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.
LIN: ... the staunchest ally of the United States and President Bush and the war in Iraq, but he has paid a political price at home. What do you think is happening behind closed doors right now between the president and the prime minister?
RODGERS: Well, if you listen to the aides who are traveling with Prime Minister Blair, they're trying to lower expectations. Of course, in the news, business in the politics business, that may mean they know they're going to get something. That is to say, the White House may throw them a bone, or indeed they may be telling the truth that not much will come out of this.
What Prime Minister Blair wants most of all is to reengage the United States in the Middle East peace process, specifically the talks between Israel and the Palestinians, which have been more about for the better part of three or four years now. If Mr. Blair can get any sort of commitment that he can come out and wave a piece of paper and say, "I have persuaded the president to reengage, perhaps to appoint a special envoy, perhaps to engage in some shuttle diplomacy in the Middle East," then Mr. Blair will have succeeded in this visit in being able to say more than he was just the first international leader to see President Bush since Mr. Bush's reelection. But right now the cynics in Britain are saying the principal purpose of the trip is so that Tony Blair can say, "I was the first" -- Carol.
LIN: He was the first, but he's got to come home with something, it sounds like. If the president was willing to name a special envoy, would it allow Prime Minister Tony Blair to come home with something in his hand? And would it also then allow President Bush to stand by his public statement that he doesn't want to take the first step in the peace process until he sees a new Palestinian leadership -- so that means elections -- and a Palestinian leadership that stands by its commitment to not attack Israel?
That's a lot to ask for.
RODGERS: Arguably, the -- yes. Arguably, the president of the United States owes Tony Blair a lot, as being the only really staunch ally who contributed the most outside of the U.S. to the war in Iraq. So it's payback time.
And remember, next year, probably before May, Tony Blair's going to call an election. Some say as early as February.
It would be nice if he could get something concrete and tangible from the Bush White House to say, see, this is not just a one-sided relationship, us giving troops in Iraq and getting nothing in return. Clearly, the Bush aides understand it would be nice for Mr. Blair to get that. It remains to be seen whether it will happen.
But again, we have to distinguish, even if the Bush administration engages in a so-called peace process, that's very different from peace itself. It's just more talks. It's just the beginning of the beginning of the beginning all over again -- Carol.
LIN: Yes, all right. Thank you very much, Walt.
We'll hear more in just a few minutes from the president and the prime minister when they talk live with reporters. But right now, we've got a prime opportunity to talk with one of our embedded reporters, senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, who is embedded with the U.S. Marines in Falluja.
Nic, what are you seeing around you right now?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, darkness fell a couple of hours ago, Carol, and throughout the day there have been detonations going off. Detonations, precision bombs dropped by aircraft, artillery fire, brought in to bear on locations where Marines and troops believed that insurgents are hiding out.
The Marines achieved their objectives very quickly in Falluja. What they are doing now, indeed, so quickly, that they went past places where insurgents were hiding. What they are doing now is breaking the city down into sectors and going house to house, along different streets in the city, clearing houses, clearing neighborhoods, picking up small groups of insurgents.
Commanders here say that the insurgents have been fighting in small numbers, and that's what we've been seeing. We've been seeing small numbers, small groups, threes, fours, groups of insurgents being captured and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) led away by Marines. Those insurgents or suspected insurgents are then questioned, processed and sent back to real lines.
But earlier in the day, Carol, we were with one of the Marine companies here quite close to the center of Falluja. They were involved in a very intense firefight at a particular location.
They did take casualties. The Marines -- the Marine casualties appear to be quite low, but they are taking steady numbers of casualties on the two days while I've been witness to the Marine activities here.
But during that intense firefight, they were firing heavy machineguns, some of the larger grenade-launched rounds into a building. We could hear the sniper fire literally whistling over our heads in the positions we were in. And some rounds landing near the Marines' vehicle, some of the Marines' resupply vehicles.
But it is a day of -- in Falluja now -- well, it's night now, but it has been a day of mixed activity. But mostly, slowly -- Marines slowly going area to area and coming upon and getting involved in some intense firefights, taking and finding new command and strategic headquarters in the city -- Carol.
LIN: Nic, we heard earlier from a doctor in Falluja who is saying that there are civilian bodies everywhere and that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to get people to hospital for treatment. Have you seen anything from your position that indicates what is going on in terms of civilian casualties or the ability to treat the wounded?
ROBERTSON: There are two bodies close to the location where -- one I have seen, and that is a body, the Marines believe, of an insurgent. The other body also they believe of an insurgent.
What I have heard across the board from Iraqi troops involved in the battle for Falluja, and from Marines and Marine commanders, and what I've witnessed myself, is there --we haven't seen anybody on the streets at all out walking on the streets. No Iraqis whatsoever.
What the Marine commander told me earlier, as he said, so far in the operations they've only found two Iraqi civilian families. Those families have been evacuated out of the city to make it safer for them.
It is a picture here of complete darkness inside Falluja right now. There are no sounds of normal life.
You can hear the drones high up above. You can hear the occasional detonation and flash on the horizon. But in terms of civilians having any kind of life in the city, that doesn't seem to be possible. And from what we've witnessed, there aren't any around whatsoever.
In fact, it's quite telling, Carol. There are sort of local families, pet cats walking around trying to find something to eat, coming up to the Marines, meowing, looking for food, stray dogs walking around. It's a very eerie situation here right now -- Carol.
LIN: As night falls on Falluja, Nic, another embedded print reporter was telling in an interview just the intense emotion of combat. For the Marines, with whom you are embedded with, this experience, they've got to be all business out in the field, clearly, in the heat of battle. But give me a sense of how these fighters, the U.S. coalition fighters are feeling right now about where they're at in this battle for Falluja.
ROBERTSON: Carol, they seem to be very happy with where they're at. They achieved their objectives quickly.
Certainly the pace of operations, it's operation after operation, objective, the next objective, the next objective. Some of the Marines around me are relaxing and sitting down and taking a break.
It's been an intense day, a day of intense efforts. Minutes here -- minutes here in the case of a firefight, can -- can feel like they stretch into hours. And certainly some of the young Marines I've seen today, when they get the opportunity to relax, sitting down, up against the wall, inside a building, taking a relaxed position, getting something to eat, something to drink.
But in the heat of the operation, a lot of strained faces, a lot of people working really hard. But the mood among the Marines, despite some of the casualties, Carol -- and people come -- some of the Marines have asked about the casualties -- say, look, we're in the battle right now. We've got to carry on. We've got to do our job.
But the morale seems to be good, because they are achieving what they want to achieve -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Nic Robertson embedded with the U.S. Marines. Nic, we're thinking of you, and take care of yourself out there as well.
Nic is going to be calling in whenever he can, as he is embedded with the Marines in the midst of this fierce battle for Falluja.
We want to go on to the Middle East now, where it was an emotional and chaotic scene in the West Bank today at the burial of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. A surging crowd surrounded the helicopter that carried Arafat to his Ramallah compound for the final time. CNN's Michael Holmes watched it all unfold, and he's with us now from Ramallah.
Michael, I understand that there were some injuries from that massive crowd that closed in on that helicopter, the body of Yasser Arafat.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we have reports, Carol. Given the size of the crowd, a small number of injuries, but injuries nonetheless.
Most of them, we're told, caused by those guns being fired into the air, both as a warning to get the crowds back, and also in celebration, a sign of respect. It often happens at funerals in this part of the world, that guns are fired into the air.
Those bullets, of course, that go up come down. And it's not unusual to have injuries. We're told there were no deaths, however.
You can see there and hear the chaotic, frenzied scene that began really before the helicopters even got here. The crowd was not meant to make it inside the Palestinian Authority compound. They did get in. They were not to be denied.
They completely overwhelmed the security forces that were there. Once the helicopters indeed touched down, two of them, not three, as was planned -- there simply wasn't room for the third one -- they swarmed the helicopter and Yasser Arafat's body. And then we had those remarkable scenes of Arafat's body being held aloft and carted through the crowd.
Not the most dignified situation one would see from the outside. Some people have told us that Arafat would have enjoyed the outpouring of emotion and loyalty that was on display there. We were speaking earlier with Saeb Erakat, and he said to us that he felt that Arafat may not have liked it, that Arafat would have liked to have the Honor Guard and the red carpet and the marching band. We have some sound now from Saeb Erakat. We spoke to him just in the last hour or so, and he described to us what he felt as he saw what was laid out before him. He was in the helicopter with Yasser Arafat's coffin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: We were first told that we could not land. So the pilot told us that's it difficult and so on. And so we asked them to please clear for the planes to land.
So once this happened, I thought that, OK, now we have 20 meters for the processions. But once we saw the -- and I heard some people screaming, you know, shouting and saying things and so on. I kept repeating to them, "He deserves -- he's a soldier of Palestine. He's your commander. Honor him. He deserves your honor."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, that plea was unheard by the throng, and they continued to mill around, jostling, trying to touch the casket. It was meant to be taken off to a viewing room, Carol, where dignitaries would pay their last respects. It never got that far in the end.
It went part of the way, and then the decision was taken to just bury Yasser Arafat in that tomb that had been constructed before our eyes over the last 36, 48 hours. And so Yasser Arafat was laid to rest. Palestinians will say it's not his final resting place, but Israelis will say that he will be here for some time to come -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Michael Holmes, thank you very much, reporting live from Ramallah. A very different scene at his funeral services yesterday in Cairo.
All right. We have much more to come, including weather. The president and the prime minister of Great Britain are coming up with a plan for peace in the Middle East. We are going to hear from both leaders live in the next few minutes, live from the White House East Room. So stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: A live picture of the White House right now, where any minute, perhaps sometime in the next five minutes, we're going to hear from President George Bush and Great Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, who are meeting behind closed doors. We understand that top of the agenda here is whether the Middle East peace process can now go forward, now that Yasser Arafat has passed on, and a new era may be beginning for the Palestinian people.
Prime Minister Tony Blair, the staunchest ally of President Bush in the war in Iraq. But he has paid a political price at home. The Europeans want to see a peace deal. We also are covering another big story this morning. The jury in the Scott Peterson murder trial is starting over, completely over this hour, because two jurors were kicked off the panel this week. CNN's Rusty Dornin is watching developments at the courthouse today in Redwood City, California.
Rusty, have the jurors gathered together, this relatively new group now?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've heard they just arrived here at the courthouse this morning. But, Carol, it's been a crazy week. It's difficult to keep track of who's on the jury and who's off.
Two jurors being dismissed in as many days earlier this week, including the foreman of the jury. Now, he was replaced by juror number six, a firefighter, that many people didn't take notes in the process, and was seen kind of gazing off, seemed bored at times during the testimony.
But sources have told CNN that this jury, since deliberations began, has been very contentious. There's been a big battle brewing in that jury room. And some folks see this juror as being sort of a peacemaker. He gets along with everyone.
And, in fact, as they deliberated as the new panel for about two- and-a-half hours on Wednesday, when they got on the bus they seemed very jovial. They were laughing and smiling as they got on the bus. So perhaps it's already having an effect. We don't know.
But they did spend all day yesterday sequestered in their hotel. They will deliberate today.
We had heard earlier from a source it would be short deliberations because a juror had a personal issue. Now we did hear that perhaps they will go all day. So we're unsure if they will deliberate the full day or not, but we do know if they don't come to a verdict today, they will be spending the weekend sequestered once again -- Carol.
LIN: All right, Rusty. We're all waiting. We're all waiting. Thanks very much. Rusty Doreen reporting live in Redwood City.
Stay right there, because any moment now we're expecting to hear from the president and the prime minister of Great Britain. A lot to talk about between these two leaders, friends and allies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Live to the White House, where we've now gotten the two- minute warning from the White House to see the president and the prime minister in just a couple of minutes. But first, to our John King, senior correspondent at the White House.
John, is this likely to be a photo op, or do you think these two leaders are going to announce specifics about Iraq or even the Middle East?
KING: Well, Carol, statements and a few questions. Obviously the two leaders comparing notes and discussing the effort against the insurgency in Iraq.
Also, as Prime Minister Blair said on his way here, his hope that there will be a more determined and forceful effort by the United States and others to get the Israelis and the Palestinians back into peace negotiations following the death of Yasser Arafat. Those we believe will be the two main subjects. The president and of course his closest ally in the war in Iraq due here in the East Room in just about a minute.
Those are the two big questions. And in -- within those questions, the question of whether the president will choose a new special envoy for the Middle East, or just have his national security team handle such negotiations. And one thing the White House says is that we should not get too far ahead of ourselves before there can be negotiations. They need to have a new Palestinian leadership with which to deal.
LIN: All right, John. As we get ready to see the president and prime minister as they round the corner, much is at stake for Tony Blair, who faces a reelection campaign in his own country. And with a lot of pressure from the European allies who were not necessarily supportive of the war in Iraq, but do want to see a Middle East peace agreement. As we wait for the two leaders, President Bush, freshly reelected, meeting with his staunchest ally in the war on Iraq.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you. Welcome.
I'm pleased to welcome a statesman and a friend back to the White House. Prime Minister Blair is a visionary leader. I've come to know him as a man of unshakable convictions.
America's alliance with Great Britain has never been stronger. And we're working closely every day to spread that freedom that leads to peace.
Our two nations have shared in some of the most hopeful and positive achievements of our time.
The people of Afghanistan have now chosen their president in a free election. The Taliban and the terrorists did everything they could to intimidate the long-suffering people of that country, yet men and women lined up at the polls, some of them waiting for hours to have their first taste of democracy.
BUSH: The success of Afghanistan's election is a standing rebuke to cynicism and extremism, and a testimony to the power of liberty and hope.
People of the United States and Great Britain can be proud of the role we have played in aiding the rise of a free nation and in so doing making our countries more secure. Together we're serving the same cause in Iraq.
Prime Minister Allawi authorized military operations to rid Fallujah of Saddam holdouts and foreign terrorists, and American and Iraqi forces have made substantial progress in the last several days.
Our coalition is training Iraqi security forces who are performing bravely and taking increasing responsibility for their country's security.
BUSH: British, Americans and other coalition forces are helping provide stability that is necessary for free elections. And U.N. officials are helping the Iraqi people prepare for those elections to be held in January.
As those elections draw near, the desperation of the killers will grow and the violence could escalate. Success of democracy in Iraq will be a crushing blow to the forces of terror and the terrorists know it.
The defeat of terror in Iraq will set that nation on a course to lasting freedom and will give hope to millions and the Iraqi people know it.
The United States and Great Britain have shown our determination to help Iraqis achieve their liberty and to defend the security of the world.
BUSH: We'll continue to stand with our friends and we will finish the job.
Prime Minister Blair and I also share a vision of a free, peaceful, a democratic broader Middle East.
That vision must include a just and peaceful resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, based on two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security.
Our sympathies are with the Palestinian people as they begin a period of mourning. Yet the months ahead offer a new opportunity to make progress toward a lasting peace.
Soon Palestinians will choose a new president.
BUSH: This is the first step in creating lasting, democratic political institutions through which a free Palestinian people will elect local and national leaders.
We're committed to the success of these elections and we stand ready to help.
I look forward to working with the Palestinian leadership that is committed to fighting terror and committed to the cause of democratic reform.
We'll mobilize the international community to help revive the Palestinian economy, to build up the Palestinian security institutions to fight terror, to help the Palestinian government fight corruption, and to reform the Palestinian political system and build democratic institutions.
BUSH: We'll also work with Israeli and Palestinian leaders to complete the disengagement plan from Gaza and part of the West Bank.
These steps, if successful, will lay the foundation for progress in implementing the road map, and then lead to final status negotiations.
We seek a democratic, independent and viable state for the Palestinian people. We are committed to the security of Israel as a Jewish state.
These objectives -- two states living side by side in peace and security -- can be reached by only one path: the path of democracy, reform and the rule of law.
All that we hope to achieve together requires that America and Europe remain close partners. We are the pillars of the free world.
BUSH: We face the same threats and share the same belief in freedom and the rights of every individual.
In my second term, I will work to deepen our trans-Atlantic ties with the nations of Europe. I intend to visit Europe as soon as possible after my inauguration.
My government will continue to work through the NATO alliance and with the European Union to strengthen cooperation between Europe and America.
America applauds the success of NATO and E.U. enlargement, and welcomes the stability and prosperity that that enlargement brings.
We must apply the combined strength and moral purpose of Europe and America to effectively fight terror and to overcome poverty and disease and despair, to advance human dignity and to advance freedom.
BUSH: In all that lies ahead, in the defense of freedom and the advance of democracy and the spread of prosperity, America, the United Kingdom and all of Europe must act together.
Mr. Prime Minister, welcome.
TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED: Thank you, Mr. President. And thank you for your gracious welcome to me, here in the White House. And once again, many congratulations on your reelection.
There are three major issues that arise. The United States and the United Kingdom have stood together since September the 11th, 2001 in order to combat this new form of global terrorism that we face.
BLAIR: And the three things that we can do most to make sure that we defeat this terrorism, apart from being ever vigilant on security, but first of all to bring democracy to Afghanistan, which we are doing, as the successful election of President Karzai shows. And that is quite a magnificent tribute, not just to the courage of the Afghan people, but actually also to the power of democracy.
Secondly, we have to complete our mission in Iraq: make sure that Iraq is a stable and a democratic country.
And I have no doubt at all that whatever the difficulties the terrorists and insurgents, supporters of Saddam Hussein may pose for us, that we will overcome those difficulties, ourselves, the multinational force together with the Iraqi government, and ensure that Iraq can be that democratic, stable state that the vast majority of Iraqis I know will want to see.
BLAIR: And the third thing is, as the president rightly said a moment or two ago, we meet at a crucial time, where it is important that we revitalize and reinvigorate the search for a genuine, lasting and just peace in the Middle East.
I would like to repeat my condolences to the Palestinian people at this time.
As you will have seen, we have set out the steps that we believe are necessary to get into a process that will lead to the two-state solution that we want to see.
BLAIR: And I think those steps are very clear.
They are, first of all, making sure that we set out a clear vision. That clear vision was articulated by President Bush sometime ago, repeated by him today, of a two-state solution; two democratic states living side by side together in peace.
The second thing is we need to support those Palestinian elections. That is a chance for the first beginnings of democracy to take hold on the Palestinian side, so it's important that we support it.
Thirdly, however, if we want a viable Palestinian state, we need to make sure that the political, the economic and the security infrastructure of that state is shaped and helped to come into being.
BLAIR: We will mobilize international opinion and the international community in order to do that.
The fourth thing is that Prime Minister Sharon's plan for disengagement is important. I think we recognized that when we were here at the White House back in April this year. That disengagement plan is now going forward. It's important that we support it.
And then on the basis of this, we are able, in accordance with the principles of the road map, to get back into final status negotiation so that we have that two-state solution.
And I think there is every possibility that we can do this with the energy and the will, and the recognition that in the end it is only if the two states that we want to see living side by side are indeed democratic states, where the rule of law and human rights are respected in each of them, that a just peace could be secured.
BLAIR: I would also like to support very strongly what the president's just said about the trans-Atlantic alliance.
Again, I think there is a tremendous desire and willingness on the part of certainly our partners in the European Union to make sure that that alliance is strong. It's necessary for the security of the world. It's necessary for us to be able to tackle many of the problems that confront us.
I look forward to working with the president over these coming months in order to try and secure that progress that we have laid out for you today.
And also, of course, we had the opportunity to discuss the upcoming G-8 presidency of the United Kingdom.
BLAIR: And we intend to take those issues forward, as well.
So, Mr. President, once again many, many thanks. Thank you for your alliance and for your leadership at this time.
BUSH: Welcome, thanks.
QUESTION: Mr. President, with Yasser Arafat's death, what specific steps can Israel take to revive peace negotiations? And do you believe that Israel should implement a freeze on West Bank settlement expansion?
BUSH: I believe that the responsibility for peace is going to rest with the Palestinian people's desire to build a democracy and Israel's willingness to help them build a democracy.
BUSH: I know we have a responsibility as free nations to set forth a strategy that will help the Palestinian people head toward democracy. I don't think there will ever be lasting peace until there is a free, truly democratic society in the Palestinian territories that becomes a state.
And therefore the responsibility rests with both the Palestinian people and the leadership which emerges, with the Israelis to help that democracy grow, and with the free world to put the strategy in place that will help the democracy grow.
QUESTION: Mr. President, can you say today that it is your firm intention that by the end of your second term in office it is your goal that there should be two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side?
BUSH: I think it is fair to say that I believe we've got a great chance to establish a Palestinian state, and I intend to use the next four years to spend the capital of the United States on such a state. I believe it is in the interests of the world that a truly free state develop. I know it is in the interests of the Palestinian people that they can live in a society where they can express their opinion freely, a society where they can educate their children without hate, a society in which they can realize their dreams if they happen to be, you know, an entrepreneur.
BUSH: I know it's in Israel's interest that a free state evolve on her border.
There is no other way to have a lasting peace, in my judgment, unless we all work to help develop the institutions necessary for a state to emerge: a civil society based upon justice, free speech, free elections, the right for people to express themselves freely.
The first step of that is going to be the election of a new president. And my fervent hope is that new president embraces the notion of a democratic state.
BUSH: I hate to put artificial time frames on things. Unfortunately, I've got one on my existence as president. It's not artificial; it's actually real.
And I'd like to see it done in four years. I think it is possible. I think it is possible.
I think it is impossible to think that the president of the United States or the prime minister of Great Britain can impose our vision. I think it's unrealistic to say, "Well, Bush wants it done," or, "Blair wants it done," therefore it'll happen.
But I think it is very possible that it can happen. Because I believe people want to live in a free society, and our job is to help it happen.
Thank you.
QUESTION: Prime Minister Blair wants an international conference on the Middle East.
QUESTION: What has to happen before you would sign onto that?
And will you name a U.S. envoy?
And what would you like to accomplish on this Europe trip that you're planning?
BUSH: Let's see here, start with the accomplishing on the Europe trip.
It is to remind people that the world is better off, America's better off, Europe is better off when we work together. And there's a lot we can accomplish working together. There's a lot we have accomplished working together.
We're working very closely to find Al Qaeda and bring members of Al Qaeda to justice. We've worked closely to free Afghanistan. We're working closely to interdict the flow of weapons of mass destruction -- the Proliferation Security Initiative, the membership of which is a lot of members of the E.U.
BUSH: I mean, there's a lot of things we're working together on.
NATO expansion we work together on. It was such a refreshing moment when the leaders of the new countries in NATO walked in the room in the Czech Republic. It was a fantastic moment to see these proud members walked in and say, "We're now a member of the greatest alliance ever."
And there's a lot we can continue to do.
In the spirit of the last question, we'll do what it takes to get a peace in the conference.
What the prime minister and I discussed last night is do not we have an obligation to develop a strategy? And the answer is absolutely we have an obligation. And one way to do that is to include the quartet, to bring nations together and say, "Here's what it takes to help the Palestinians develop a state that is truly free."
BUSH: And I'm all for conferences, just so long as the conferences produce something.
And we had a long discussion about whether or not a conference can produce a viable strategy that we could then use as a go-by for our own obligations, as well as the obligations of the Palestinians, for them to have their own state. And the answer is, if that conference will do that, you bet I'm a big supporter.
But one thing is for certain: We are going to develop a strategy so that once the elections are over, we will be able to say, "Here's how we will help you. If you want to be helped, here's what we're willing to do. If you choose not to be helped, if you decide you don't want a free, democratic society, there's nothing we can do."
BUSH: If you think you can have peace without democracy again, I think you'll find that -- I can only speak for myself -- that I will be extremely doubtful that it will ever happen. I've seen it work too many times -- tried too many times.
Now, there's going to be people around who say, "The Palestinians can't develop a democracy; it's impossible for them to live in a free society." I strongly disagree with that.
And so the whole premise of this strategy that we'll outline is all based toward that vision of a free and truly democratic society emerging.
See, what's going to happen is when that happens there will be great trust developed between Israel and the Palestinian people. Free societies are able to develop trust between each other.
BUSH: And there's clearly a lack of trust right now.
And so, yes, we'll do that what it takes to put a strategy in place and advance it and call upon other nations to work with us.
BLAIR: Yes, I mean, that's absolutely right. I mean, what we will do is anything that is necessary to make this strategy work.
The important thing is that, first of all, there's got to be an agreement as to what a viable Palestinian state means. And what we're really saying this morning is that that viable state has to be a democratic state.
The second thing is how do we get there, how do we enable the Palestinians to get there. We will do whatever it takes to help build support for that concept, to work through the details of it and make sure that it can actually be brought into being.
BLAIR: But the bottom line has got to be that if you want to secure Israel and you want a viable Palestinian state, those are two states living side by side and they are democratic states living side by side.
And we've got the chance over the next few months, with the election of a new Palestinian president, to put the first marker down on that.
QUESTION: I know that Iran, as well as Iraq, has been a very significant part of the agenda for this week and I'd like to ask you whether, in light of the nuclear ambitions of Iran, whether America would tolerate a nuclear Iran?
QUESTION: And if the answer to that is no, would Britain, Mr. Prime Minister, stand as four-square behind America on this issue as it has done on Iraq?
BUSH: Let me make sure I understand your question.
You're saying an Iran with a nuclear weapon -- nuclear power or nuclear weapon?
QUESTION: Nuclear weapon.
BUSH: OK.
No, we don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon and we're working toward that end. And the truth of the matter is the prime minister gets a lot of credit for working with France and Germany to convince the Iranians to get rid of the processes that would enable them to develop a nuclear weapon.
BLAIR: Absolutely. And there's an agreement in the international community to make sure that Iran comes into compliance with its international obligations.
BLAIR: And we've been working with France and Germany, obviously, with the United States and other, too, to make sure that that happens.
BUSH: Let's see here. Cochran? John? (LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: I'm totally shocked.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: That's why I call on you.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: You know you talk about democracy being so necessary. There are those who would say there is sometimes a harsh peace of a dictator.
What if the Palestinian state comes up with somebody who is not a democrat, but is willing to have peace with the Israelis?
And let me transfer all that to the Iraqis, as well. What if the Iraqis come up with somebody who's not friendly to the United States, is not a democrat, but it's peaceful?
QUESTION: Is this something you can live with?
BUSH: Well, first of all, if there's an election, the Iraqis will have come up with somebody who is duly elected. In other words, democracy will have spoken. And that person is going to have to listen to the people, not to the whims of, you know, a dictator; not to their own desires -- personal desires.
The great thing about democracy is you actually go out and ask the people for a vote, as you might have noticed recently. And the people get to decide and they get to decide the course of their future. And so it's a contradiction in terms to say a dictator, you know, gets elected.
The person who gets elected is chosen by the people.
BUSH: And so I'm not, you know...
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
BUSH: Well, you can be elected and then, you know, be a strongman, and then you get voted out, so long as you end up honoring democracy.
But if you're true to democracy you'll listen to the people, not to your own desires. If you're true to democracy, you'll do what the people want you to do. That's the difference between democracy and a tyrant.
And the Palestinians may decide to elect a real strong personality, but we'll hold their feet to the fire to make sure that democracy prevails, that there are free elections. And if they don't -- the people of the Palestinian territory don't like the way this person is responding to their needs, they will vote him or her out. And the reason why I'm so strong on democracy is democracies don't go to war with each other. And the reason why is the people of most societies don't like war and they understand what war means.
And one of these days the people of the Palestinian -- the Palestinians will realize that there is a bright future because freedom is taking hold: a future that enables their children to get educated; a future in which they can start their businesses; a future in which they're certain that the monies going into the treasury of their government is being spent fairly, in a transparent way; a future in which corruption is not the norm; a future in which rule of law prevails.
BUSH: And that leads to a peaceful society.
I've got great faith in democracies to promote peace. And that's why I'm such a strong believer that the way forward in the Middle East -- the broader Middle East, is to promote democracy.
I readily concede there are skeptics, people who say democracy is not possible in certain societies. But remember that was said right after World War II with Japan.
BUSH: And today one of the people that I work closest with is my friend Prime Minister Koizumi. And it's remarkable to me that we sit down at the same table talking about keeping the peace in places like North Korea and it really wasn't all that long ago in the march of history that we were enemies.
The prime minister knows Koizumi. He's a good man. And he's an ally because democracy took hold in Japan.
And yet there was a lot of skeptics. When you look at the writings right after World War II, a lot of people said, "You're wasting your time to try to promote democracy in Japan."
There were some, I suspect, maybe in Great Britain and I know in America, that were writing, "You're wasting your time to promote democracy in Germany after World War II."
BUSH: And yet, fortunately, people who preceded us had great faith in liberty that transforms societies. And that's what we're talking about is taking place.
And it's hard and it's difficult to go in a society like Iraq because the terrorists understand the stakes of freedom, and they're willing to kill people in brutal fashion to stop it.
And I believe we have a duty and an obligation to work to make sure democracy takes hold. It's a duty to our own country. It's a duty to generations of Americans and children of Great Britain to help secure the peace by promoting democratic societies.
BLAIR: First of all, I should say Koizumi's a good man not just because I know him, but...
(LAUGHTER)
BLAIR: Although that helps a lot I think.
(LAUGHTER)
But I think the president said something here that I really think is very, very important.
In the politics -- when I was first a member of Parliament and making my way up the greasy pole and all the rest of it, there was a view in foreign policy that you dealt with countries on the basis of whatever attitude they had toward you, that really whatever they did within their own countries that was up to them and didn't really make a difference to your long-term relationship.
I think what we are learning today is that there is not stability of any true, long-term kind without democratic rights for free people to decide their government.
BLAIR: Now, that doesn't mean to say we try and interfere with every state around the world, but it does mean that there's been a shift, and I think a shift quite dramatically since 9/11, in the thinking that is informing our view of how we make progress.
That's why it wasn't enough to go into Afghanistan and root out Al Qaeda or knock down the Taliban, we actually had to go there and say, "No, we must replace that with a democratic form of government. Because in the end, if we replace it simply with another dictator, then we'll get the same instability back."
That's why in Iraq we decided when Saddam was removed, we didn't want another hard man coming in, another dictator.
Now, it's a struggle because democracy is hard to bring into countries that have never had it before.
BLAIR: But I've no doubt at all that the Iraqi people, given the chance -- and indeed you can see this in some of the local elections now down in the south of Iraq -- given the chance, they want to elect their leaders. Why wouldn't they?
I mean, why would they want a strong-arm leader who's going to have the secret police, you know, no freedom of speech, no free press, no human rights, no proper law courts?
The people want the freedom. What we recognized, I think, today, is that we're not going to have our security unless they get that freedom.
So when we come to the issue of Israel and Palestine, I think, what we are saying is, we are going to work flat out to deliver this. But people have to understand we can't deliver something unless the people whom it affects actually want it to happen.
And we don't believe there will be a viable future for a state of Palestine unless it's based on certain key democratic principles. BLAIR: Now, I think that's a tremendous thing.
And I also think that in the end -- of course, you're right. People can vote for the people they'd like to vote for in elections, right? That's what democracy is about.
I think we've got to have some faith, though, in the ability of ordinary people and decent people to decide their own future.
Because it's a curious thing, you look at all these Eastern European countries -- Central, Eastern European countries in the European Union now, just democracies over the last 10 years, fierce election debates, changes of government, often difficult circumstances when the governments changed.
But you go to those countries and talk to the people there, and their sense of liberation and their sense of self-worth as a result of the freedom they have, that is the best testament to why it's sensible to have faith in democracy.
BLAIR: And, you know, sometimes when people say, "Well, it's -- you got a Republican president and a progressive politician from across the water," but in my view, people from different sides of the political spectrum should be able to come together to argue that policy case, because democracy is something that should unite us whatever political position we have.
QUESTION: Mr. President, first.
QUESTION: The prime minister is sometimes, perhaps unfairly, characterized in Britain as your poodle. I was wondering if that's the way you may see your relationship.
And perhaps more seriously, do you feel...
BLAIR: Don't answer yes to that question...
(LAUGHTER)
That would be difficult.
QUESTION: Do you feel for the strong support that Britain has given you over Iraq that you have to pay back Britain for that support in some way?
BUSH: The prime minister made the decision he did because he wanted to do his duty to secure the people of Great Britain. That's why he made the decision.
Plenty capable of making his own mind. He's a strong, capable man. I admire him a lot.
BUSH: You know why? When he tells you something, he means it.
You spend much time in politics you'll know there's some people around this kind of line of work where they tell you something, they don't mean it.
When he says something, he means it. He's a big thinker. He's got a clear vision. And when times get tough he doesn't wilt. You know, when the criticism starts to come his way -- I suspect that might be happening on occasion -- he stands for what he believes in.
That's the kind of person I like to deal with.
I'm a lucky person, a lucky president to be holding office at the same time this man holds the prime ministership.
These are troubled times. It's a tough world. What this world needs is steady, rock-solid leaders who stand on principle, and that's what the prime minister means to me.
BLAIR: I just want to add one thing, which is that -- well, this concept of payback.
BLAIR: We're not fighting the war against terrorism because we are an ally of the United States. We are an ally of the United States because we believe in fighting this war against terrorism.
We share the same objectives. We share the same values.
And if we look back over our own history in the last half century or more, we, both of us in different ways, United States and Britain, have a cause to be thankful for this alliance and this partnership.
BLAIR: And I believe we should be thankful that it is as strong as it is today.
And as long as I remain prime minister of our country it will carry on being strong, not because that's in the interests of America simply or in the interests of the international community, but because I believe passionately it is in the interest of Britain.
BUSH: Thank you all.
LIN: All right. We have just heard from the president of the United States and the British prime minister, a united front on the war on terror, both in Afghanistan, Iraq, and also now in the Middle East peace process, where both reiterate they want to see Democratic elections, what they would consider Democratic elections, amongst the Palestinian people before the west deals with their new leader, whoever that may be; we will find out in 60 days.
I'm going to toss it off to Wolf Blitzer who's up in Washington for more perspective on what the president and the prime minister have to say.
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Aired November 12, 2004 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening right "Now in the News."
The president and the prime minister of Great Britain talk about new prospects for peace in the Middle East. The war in Iraq is also on the agenda, as Britain's Tony Blair meets with the president. They are expected to talk to reporters in less than 30 minutes. And we are going to have live coverage.
And emotion erupts into chaos as Palestinians pay a final tribute to their leader Yasser Arafat. Crowds swarmed the helicopter that carried Arafat's coffin to the West Bank compound where he was buried. We are going to have a live report from Ramallah just ahead.
And right now, U.S. forces are battling small cells of insurgents as they plow their way through southern Falluja. Troops are going door-to-door and building-to-building, searching for weapons caches. The military says 18 U.S. troops and at least five Iraqi soldiers have been killed in the Falluja offensive so far.
And the jury in the Scott Peterson murder trial starts all over again this hour. Deliberations are set to resume after two jurors were dismissed this week. And yet another bizarre twist. A replica of Scott Peterson's boat was removed from a nearby parking lot after it was turned into a shrine for Laci Peterson.
It's 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast, 8:00 a.m. out West. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin, in today for Daryn and Rick.
All right. Let's get started at the White House this hour, where British Prime Minister Tony Blair is pressing President Bush to seize the moment in the Middle East. Tony Blair wants the U.S. to be more hands-on with the peace process after the death of Yasser Arafat. Both leaders were -- will talk to reporters in about 25 minutes, and we're going to carry that live.
But right now, we want to bring you a report from our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Middle East after Arafat is a major folks with talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a close ally, but also among European leaders who want President Bush to devote more time and energy on peacemaking. In a statement, Mr. Bush offered condolences to the Palestinian people and said his hope that they can finally realize their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors.
The president never hid his contempt for Arafat, but says there is a diplomatic opening now if the new Palestinian leadership is committed to reform and peace. Administration officials privately voice hope that longtime deputy Mahmoud Abbas emerges as the new leader. Mr. Bush spoke highly of Abbas during his brief tenure as Palestinian prime minister. But the public White House position is that the Palestinians must make that choice.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: If we put our stamp of approval in a very public way upon a particular individual, that could doom that individual's prospects for becoming a leader of the Palestinians. He could be seen as the American stooge.
KING: As Mr. Bush faces new pressure to take a lead role in peacemaking, he is, not surprisingly, getting conflicting advice. The Palestinians want pressure on Israel.
HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN, PALESTINIAN REP. TO U.S.: Stop building Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories. Stop assassinating Palestinian community leaders. Stop demolishing Palestinian homes.
KING: But Israel's ambassador to the United States says Mr. Bush would step in only if the new Palestinian leadership first proves its commitment to peace.
DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: The fundamental issue is to end the Palestinian terrorism, to dismantle the terrorists, the Palestinian terrorist organizations, stop the incitement, and then the sky is the limit.
KAGAN: Already there are European complaints that Mr. Bush is only sending a midlevel delegation to the Arafat funeral, led by Assistant Secretary of State William Burns.
(on camera): Officials say the administration will prove its commitment to diplomacy once the Palestinians have new leaders and will not pretend it thought more highly of Mr. Arafat, a man the president considered an obstacle to peace and a terrorist.
John King, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: I'm going to talk to senior White House correspondent John King live right before the Bush-Blair news conference gets under way, which could be early. So please stay with us. The session with reporters is set for 11:25 Eastern in the White House East Room. That's about 15 minutes from now, but again, stand by, because we're getting word that it may happen sooner.
Now, Mr. Blair is the first world leader to call on the White House since voters reelected the president. And obviously that demonstrates a close friendship that could be a political headache for the prime minister, who himself faces voters pretty soon himself.
CNN senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers in London this morning.
Walt, good to have you back in this hour. Prime Minister Tony Blair...
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.
LIN: ... the staunchest ally of the United States and President Bush and the war in Iraq, but he has paid a political price at home. What do you think is happening behind closed doors right now between the president and the prime minister?
RODGERS: Well, if you listen to the aides who are traveling with Prime Minister Blair, they're trying to lower expectations. Of course, in the news, business in the politics business, that may mean they know they're going to get something. That is to say, the White House may throw them a bone, or indeed they may be telling the truth that not much will come out of this.
What Prime Minister Blair wants most of all is to reengage the United States in the Middle East peace process, specifically the talks between Israel and the Palestinians, which have been more about for the better part of three or four years now. If Mr. Blair can get any sort of commitment that he can come out and wave a piece of paper and say, "I have persuaded the president to reengage, perhaps to appoint a special envoy, perhaps to engage in some shuttle diplomacy in the Middle East," then Mr. Blair will have succeeded in this visit in being able to say more than he was just the first international leader to see President Bush since Mr. Bush's reelection. But right now the cynics in Britain are saying the principal purpose of the trip is so that Tony Blair can say, "I was the first" -- Carol.
LIN: He was the first, but he's got to come home with something, it sounds like. If the president was willing to name a special envoy, would it allow Prime Minister Tony Blair to come home with something in his hand? And would it also then allow President Bush to stand by his public statement that he doesn't want to take the first step in the peace process until he sees a new Palestinian leadership -- so that means elections -- and a Palestinian leadership that stands by its commitment to not attack Israel?
That's a lot to ask for.
RODGERS: Arguably, the -- yes. Arguably, the president of the United States owes Tony Blair a lot, as being the only really staunch ally who contributed the most outside of the U.S. to the war in Iraq. So it's payback time.
And remember, next year, probably before May, Tony Blair's going to call an election. Some say as early as February.
It would be nice if he could get something concrete and tangible from the Bush White House to say, see, this is not just a one-sided relationship, us giving troops in Iraq and getting nothing in return. Clearly, the Bush aides understand it would be nice for Mr. Blair to get that. It remains to be seen whether it will happen.
But again, we have to distinguish, even if the Bush administration engages in a so-called peace process, that's very different from peace itself. It's just more talks. It's just the beginning of the beginning of the beginning all over again -- Carol.
LIN: Yes, all right. Thank you very much, Walt.
We'll hear more in just a few minutes from the president and the prime minister when they talk live with reporters. But right now, we've got a prime opportunity to talk with one of our embedded reporters, senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, who is embedded with the U.S. Marines in Falluja.
Nic, what are you seeing around you right now?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, darkness fell a couple of hours ago, Carol, and throughout the day there have been detonations going off. Detonations, precision bombs dropped by aircraft, artillery fire, brought in to bear on locations where Marines and troops believed that insurgents are hiding out.
The Marines achieved their objectives very quickly in Falluja. What they are doing now, indeed, so quickly, that they went past places where insurgents were hiding. What they are doing now is breaking the city down into sectors and going house to house, along different streets in the city, clearing houses, clearing neighborhoods, picking up small groups of insurgents.
Commanders here say that the insurgents have been fighting in small numbers, and that's what we've been seeing. We've been seeing small numbers, small groups, threes, fours, groups of insurgents being captured and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) led away by Marines. Those insurgents or suspected insurgents are then questioned, processed and sent back to real lines.
But earlier in the day, Carol, we were with one of the Marine companies here quite close to the center of Falluja. They were involved in a very intense firefight at a particular location.
They did take casualties. The Marines -- the Marine casualties appear to be quite low, but they are taking steady numbers of casualties on the two days while I've been witness to the Marine activities here.
But during that intense firefight, they were firing heavy machineguns, some of the larger grenade-launched rounds into a building. We could hear the sniper fire literally whistling over our heads in the positions we were in. And some rounds landing near the Marines' vehicle, some of the Marines' resupply vehicles.
But it is a day of -- in Falluja now -- well, it's night now, but it has been a day of mixed activity. But mostly, slowly -- Marines slowly going area to area and coming upon and getting involved in some intense firefights, taking and finding new command and strategic headquarters in the city -- Carol.
LIN: Nic, we heard earlier from a doctor in Falluja who is saying that there are civilian bodies everywhere and that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to get people to hospital for treatment. Have you seen anything from your position that indicates what is going on in terms of civilian casualties or the ability to treat the wounded?
ROBERTSON: There are two bodies close to the location where -- one I have seen, and that is a body, the Marines believe, of an insurgent. The other body also they believe of an insurgent.
What I have heard across the board from Iraqi troops involved in the battle for Falluja, and from Marines and Marine commanders, and what I've witnessed myself, is there --we haven't seen anybody on the streets at all out walking on the streets. No Iraqis whatsoever.
What the Marine commander told me earlier, as he said, so far in the operations they've only found two Iraqi civilian families. Those families have been evacuated out of the city to make it safer for them.
It is a picture here of complete darkness inside Falluja right now. There are no sounds of normal life.
You can hear the drones high up above. You can hear the occasional detonation and flash on the horizon. But in terms of civilians having any kind of life in the city, that doesn't seem to be possible. And from what we've witnessed, there aren't any around whatsoever.
In fact, it's quite telling, Carol. There are sort of local families, pet cats walking around trying to find something to eat, coming up to the Marines, meowing, looking for food, stray dogs walking around. It's a very eerie situation here right now -- Carol.
LIN: As night falls on Falluja, Nic, another embedded print reporter was telling in an interview just the intense emotion of combat. For the Marines, with whom you are embedded with, this experience, they've got to be all business out in the field, clearly, in the heat of battle. But give me a sense of how these fighters, the U.S. coalition fighters are feeling right now about where they're at in this battle for Falluja.
ROBERTSON: Carol, they seem to be very happy with where they're at. They achieved their objectives quickly.
Certainly the pace of operations, it's operation after operation, objective, the next objective, the next objective. Some of the Marines around me are relaxing and sitting down and taking a break.
It's been an intense day, a day of intense efforts. Minutes here -- minutes here in the case of a firefight, can -- can feel like they stretch into hours. And certainly some of the young Marines I've seen today, when they get the opportunity to relax, sitting down, up against the wall, inside a building, taking a relaxed position, getting something to eat, something to drink.
But in the heat of the operation, a lot of strained faces, a lot of people working really hard. But the mood among the Marines, despite some of the casualties, Carol -- and people come -- some of the Marines have asked about the casualties -- say, look, we're in the battle right now. We've got to carry on. We've got to do our job.
But the morale seems to be good, because they are achieving what they want to achieve -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Nic Robertson embedded with the U.S. Marines. Nic, we're thinking of you, and take care of yourself out there as well.
Nic is going to be calling in whenever he can, as he is embedded with the Marines in the midst of this fierce battle for Falluja.
We want to go on to the Middle East now, where it was an emotional and chaotic scene in the West Bank today at the burial of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. A surging crowd surrounded the helicopter that carried Arafat to his Ramallah compound for the final time. CNN's Michael Holmes watched it all unfold, and he's with us now from Ramallah.
Michael, I understand that there were some injuries from that massive crowd that closed in on that helicopter, the body of Yasser Arafat.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we have reports, Carol. Given the size of the crowd, a small number of injuries, but injuries nonetheless.
Most of them, we're told, caused by those guns being fired into the air, both as a warning to get the crowds back, and also in celebration, a sign of respect. It often happens at funerals in this part of the world, that guns are fired into the air.
Those bullets, of course, that go up come down. And it's not unusual to have injuries. We're told there were no deaths, however.
You can see there and hear the chaotic, frenzied scene that began really before the helicopters even got here. The crowd was not meant to make it inside the Palestinian Authority compound. They did get in. They were not to be denied.
They completely overwhelmed the security forces that were there. Once the helicopters indeed touched down, two of them, not three, as was planned -- there simply wasn't room for the third one -- they swarmed the helicopter and Yasser Arafat's body. And then we had those remarkable scenes of Arafat's body being held aloft and carted through the crowd.
Not the most dignified situation one would see from the outside. Some people have told us that Arafat would have enjoyed the outpouring of emotion and loyalty that was on display there. We were speaking earlier with Saeb Erakat, and he said to us that he felt that Arafat may not have liked it, that Arafat would have liked to have the Honor Guard and the red carpet and the marching band. We have some sound now from Saeb Erakat. We spoke to him just in the last hour or so, and he described to us what he felt as he saw what was laid out before him. He was in the helicopter with Yasser Arafat's coffin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: We were first told that we could not land. So the pilot told us that's it difficult and so on. And so we asked them to please clear for the planes to land.
So once this happened, I thought that, OK, now we have 20 meters for the processions. But once we saw the -- and I heard some people screaming, you know, shouting and saying things and so on. I kept repeating to them, "He deserves -- he's a soldier of Palestine. He's your commander. Honor him. He deserves your honor."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, that plea was unheard by the throng, and they continued to mill around, jostling, trying to touch the casket. It was meant to be taken off to a viewing room, Carol, where dignitaries would pay their last respects. It never got that far in the end.
It went part of the way, and then the decision was taken to just bury Yasser Arafat in that tomb that had been constructed before our eyes over the last 36, 48 hours. And so Yasser Arafat was laid to rest. Palestinians will say it's not his final resting place, but Israelis will say that he will be here for some time to come -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Michael Holmes, thank you very much, reporting live from Ramallah. A very different scene at his funeral services yesterday in Cairo.
All right. We have much more to come, including weather. The president and the prime minister of Great Britain are coming up with a plan for peace in the Middle East. We are going to hear from both leaders live in the next few minutes, live from the White House East Room. So stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: A live picture of the White House right now, where any minute, perhaps sometime in the next five minutes, we're going to hear from President George Bush and Great Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, who are meeting behind closed doors. We understand that top of the agenda here is whether the Middle East peace process can now go forward, now that Yasser Arafat has passed on, and a new era may be beginning for the Palestinian people.
Prime Minister Tony Blair, the staunchest ally of President Bush in the war in Iraq. But he has paid a political price at home. The Europeans want to see a peace deal. We also are covering another big story this morning. The jury in the Scott Peterson murder trial is starting over, completely over this hour, because two jurors were kicked off the panel this week. CNN's Rusty Dornin is watching developments at the courthouse today in Redwood City, California.
Rusty, have the jurors gathered together, this relatively new group now?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've heard they just arrived here at the courthouse this morning. But, Carol, it's been a crazy week. It's difficult to keep track of who's on the jury and who's off.
Two jurors being dismissed in as many days earlier this week, including the foreman of the jury. Now, he was replaced by juror number six, a firefighter, that many people didn't take notes in the process, and was seen kind of gazing off, seemed bored at times during the testimony.
But sources have told CNN that this jury, since deliberations began, has been very contentious. There's been a big battle brewing in that jury room. And some folks see this juror as being sort of a peacemaker. He gets along with everyone.
And, in fact, as they deliberated as the new panel for about two- and-a-half hours on Wednesday, when they got on the bus they seemed very jovial. They were laughing and smiling as they got on the bus. So perhaps it's already having an effect. We don't know.
But they did spend all day yesterday sequestered in their hotel. They will deliberate today.
We had heard earlier from a source it would be short deliberations because a juror had a personal issue. Now we did hear that perhaps they will go all day. So we're unsure if they will deliberate the full day or not, but we do know if they don't come to a verdict today, they will be spending the weekend sequestered once again -- Carol.
LIN: All right, Rusty. We're all waiting. We're all waiting. Thanks very much. Rusty Doreen reporting live in Redwood City.
Stay right there, because any moment now we're expecting to hear from the president and the prime minister of Great Britain. A lot to talk about between these two leaders, friends and allies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Live to the White House, where we've now gotten the two- minute warning from the White House to see the president and the prime minister in just a couple of minutes. But first, to our John King, senior correspondent at the White House.
John, is this likely to be a photo op, or do you think these two leaders are going to announce specifics about Iraq or even the Middle East?
KING: Well, Carol, statements and a few questions. Obviously the two leaders comparing notes and discussing the effort against the insurgency in Iraq.
Also, as Prime Minister Blair said on his way here, his hope that there will be a more determined and forceful effort by the United States and others to get the Israelis and the Palestinians back into peace negotiations following the death of Yasser Arafat. Those we believe will be the two main subjects. The president and of course his closest ally in the war in Iraq due here in the East Room in just about a minute.
Those are the two big questions. And in -- within those questions, the question of whether the president will choose a new special envoy for the Middle East, or just have his national security team handle such negotiations. And one thing the White House says is that we should not get too far ahead of ourselves before there can be negotiations. They need to have a new Palestinian leadership with which to deal.
LIN: All right, John. As we get ready to see the president and prime minister as they round the corner, much is at stake for Tony Blair, who faces a reelection campaign in his own country. And with a lot of pressure from the European allies who were not necessarily supportive of the war in Iraq, but do want to see a Middle East peace agreement. As we wait for the two leaders, President Bush, freshly reelected, meeting with his staunchest ally in the war on Iraq.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you. Welcome.
I'm pleased to welcome a statesman and a friend back to the White House. Prime Minister Blair is a visionary leader. I've come to know him as a man of unshakable convictions.
America's alliance with Great Britain has never been stronger. And we're working closely every day to spread that freedom that leads to peace.
Our two nations have shared in some of the most hopeful and positive achievements of our time.
The people of Afghanistan have now chosen their president in a free election. The Taliban and the terrorists did everything they could to intimidate the long-suffering people of that country, yet men and women lined up at the polls, some of them waiting for hours to have their first taste of democracy.
BUSH: The success of Afghanistan's election is a standing rebuke to cynicism and extremism, and a testimony to the power of liberty and hope.
People of the United States and Great Britain can be proud of the role we have played in aiding the rise of a free nation and in so doing making our countries more secure. Together we're serving the same cause in Iraq.
Prime Minister Allawi authorized military operations to rid Fallujah of Saddam holdouts and foreign terrorists, and American and Iraqi forces have made substantial progress in the last several days.
Our coalition is training Iraqi security forces who are performing bravely and taking increasing responsibility for their country's security.
BUSH: British, Americans and other coalition forces are helping provide stability that is necessary for free elections. And U.N. officials are helping the Iraqi people prepare for those elections to be held in January.
As those elections draw near, the desperation of the killers will grow and the violence could escalate. Success of democracy in Iraq will be a crushing blow to the forces of terror and the terrorists know it.
The defeat of terror in Iraq will set that nation on a course to lasting freedom and will give hope to millions and the Iraqi people know it.
The United States and Great Britain have shown our determination to help Iraqis achieve their liberty and to defend the security of the world.
BUSH: We'll continue to stand with our friends and we will finish the job.
Prime Minister Blair and I also share a vision of a free, peaceful, a democratic broader Middle East.
That vision must include a just and peaceful resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, based on two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security.
Our sympathies are with the Palestinian people as they begin a period of mourning. Yet the months ahead offer a new opportunity to make progress toward a lasting peace.
Soon Palestinians will choose a new president.
BUSH: This is the first step in creating lasting, democratic political institutions through which a free Palestinian people will elect local and national leaders.
We're committed to the success of these elections and we stand ready to help.
I look forward to working with the Palestinian leadership that is committed to fighting terror and committed to the cause of democratic reform.
We'll mobilize the international community to help revive the Palestinian economy, to build up the Palestinian security institutions to fight terror, to help the Palestinian government fight corruption, and to reform the Palestinian political system and build democratic institutions.
BUSH: We'll also work with Israeli and Palestinian leaders to complete the disengagement plan from Gaza and part of the West Bank.
These steps, if successful, will lay the foundation for progress in implementing the road map, and then lead to final status negotiations.
We seek a democratic, independent and viable state for the Palestinian people. We are committed to the security of Israel as a Jewish state.
These objectives -- two states living side by side in peace and security -- can be reached by only one path: the path of democracy, reform and the rule of law.
All that we hope to achieve together requires that America and Europe remain close partners. We are the pillars of the free world.
BUSH: We face the same threats and share the same belief in freedom and the rights of every individual.
In my second term, I will work to deepen our trans-Atlantic ties with the nations of Europe. I intend to visit Europe as soon as possible after my inauguration.
My government will continue to work through the NATO alliance and with the European Union to strengthen cooperation between Europe and America.
America applauds the success of NATO and E.U. enlargement, and welcomes the stability and prosperity that that enlargement brings.
We must apply the combined strength and moral purpose of Europe and America to effectively fight terror and to overcome poverty and disease and despair, to advance human dignity and to advance freedom.
BUSH: In all that lies ahead, in the defense of freedom and the advance of democracy and the spread of prosperity, America, the United Kingdom and all of Europe must act together.
Mr. Prime Minister, welcome.
TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED: Thank you, Mr. President. And thank you for your gracious welcome to me, here in the White House. And once again, many congratulations on your reelection.
There are three major issues that arise. The United States and the United Kingdom have stood together since September the 11th, 2001 in order to combat this new form of global terrorism that we face.
BLAIR: And the three things that we can do most to make sure that we defeat this terrorism, apart from being ever vigilant on security, but first of all to bring democracy to Afghanistan, which we are doing, as the successful election of President Karzai shows. And that is quite a magnificent tribute, not just to the courage of the Afghan people, but actually also to the power of democracy.
Secondly, we have to complete our mission in Iraq: make sure that Iraq is a stable and a democratic country.
And I have no doubt at all that whatever the difficulties the terrorists and insurgents, supporters of Saddam Hussein may pose for us, that we will overcome those difficulties, ourselves, the multinational force together with the Iraqi government, and ensure that Iraq can be that democratic, stable state that the vast majority of Iraqis I know will want to see.
BLAIR: And the third thing is, as the president rightly said a moment or two ago, we meet at a crucial time, where it is important that we revitalize and reinvigorate the search for a genuine, lasting and just peace in the Middle East.
I would like to repeat my condolences to the Palestinian people at this time.
As you will have seen, we have set out the steps that we believe are necessary to get into a process that will lead to the two-state solution that we want to see.
BLAIR: And I think those steps are very clear.
They are, first of all, making sure that we set out a clear vision. That clear vision was articulated by President Bush sometime ago, repeated by him today, of a two-state solution; two democratic states living side by side together in peace.
The second thing is we need to support those Palestinian elections. That is a chance for the first beginnings of democracy to take hold on the Palestinian side, so it's important that we support it.
Thirdly, however, if we want a viable Palestinian state, we need to make sure that the political, the economic and the security infrastructure of that state is shaped and helped to come into being.
BLAIR: We will mobilize international opinion and the international community in order to do that.
The fourth thing is that Prime Minister Sharon's plan for disengagement is important. I think we recognized that when we were here at the White House back in April this year. That disengagement plan is now going forward. It's important that we support it.
And then on the basis of this, we are able, in accordance with the principles of the road map, to get back into final status negotiation so that we have that two-state solution.
And I think there is every possibility that we can do this with the energy and the will, and the recognition that in the end it is only if the two states that we want to see living side by side are indeed democratic states, where the rule of law and human rights are respected in each of them, that a just peace could be secured.
BLAIR: I would also like to support very strongly what the president's just said about the trans-Atlantic alliance.
Again, I think there is a tremendous desire and willingness on the part of certainly our partners in the European Union to make sure that that alliance is strong. It's necessary for the security of the world. It's necessary for us to be able to tackle many of the problems that confront us.
I look forward to working with the president over these coming months in order to try and secure that progress that we have laid out for you today.
And also, of course, we had the opportunity to discuss the upcoming G-8 presidency of the United Kingdom.
BLAIR: And we intend to take those issues forward, as well.
So, Mr. President, once again many, many thanks. Thank you for your alliance and for your leadership at this time.
BUSH: Welcome, thanks.
QUESTION: Mr. President, with Yasser Arafat's death, what specific steps can Israel take to revive peace negotiations? And do you believe that Israel should implement a freeze on West Bank settlement expansion?
BUSH: I believe that the responsibility for peace is going to rest with the Palestinian people's desire to build a democracy and Israel's willingness to help them build a democracy.
BUSH: I know we have a responsibility as free nations to set forth a strategy that will help the Palestinian people head toward democracy. I don't think there will ever be lasting peace until there is a free, truly democratic society in the Palestinian territories that becomes a state.
And therefore the responsibility rests with both the Palestinian people and the leadership which emerges, with the Israelis to help that democracy grow, and with the free world to put the strategy in place that will help the democracy grow.
QUESTION: Mr. President, can you say today that it is your firm intention that by the end of your second term in office it is your goal that there should be two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side?
BUSH: I think it is fair to say that I believe we've got a great chance to establish a Palestinian state, and I intend to use the next four years to spend the capital of the United States on such a state. I believe it is in the interests of the world that a truly free state develop. I know it is in the interests of the Palestinian people that they can live in a society where they can express their opinion freely, a society where they can educate their children without hate, a society in which they can realize their dreams if they happen to be, you know, an entrepreneur.
BUSH: I know it's in Israel's interest that a free state evolve on her border.
There is no other way to have a lasting peace, in my judgment, unless we all work to help develop the institutions necessary for a state to emerge: a civil society based upon justice, free speech, free elections, the right for people to express themselves freely.
The first step of that is going to be the election of a new president. And my fervent hope is that new president embraces the notion of a democratic state.
BUSH: I hate to put artificial time frames on things. Unfortunately, I've got one on my existence as president. It's not artificial; it's actually real.
And I'd like to see it done in four years. I think it is possible. I think it is possible.
I think it is impossible to think that the president of the United States or the prime minister of Great Britain can impose our vision. I think it's unrealistic to say, "Well, Bush wants it done," or, "Blair wants it done," therefore it'll happen.
But I think it is very possible that it can happen. Because I believe people want to live in a free society, and our job is to help it happen.
Thank you.
QUESTION: Prime Minister Blair wants an international conference on the Middle East.
QUESTION: What has to happen before you would sign onto that?
And will you name a U.S. envoy?
And what would you like to accomplish on this Europe trip that you're planning?
BUSH: Let's see here, start with the accomplishing on the Europe trip.
It is to remind people that the world is better off, America's better off, Europe is better off when we work together. And there's a lot we can accomplish working together. There's a lot we have accomplished working together.
We're working very closely to find Al Qaeda and bring members of Al Qaeda to justice. We've worked closely to free Afghanistan. We're working closely to interdict the flow of weapons of mass destruction -- the Proliferation Security Initiative, the membership of which is a lot of members of the E.U.
BUSH: I mean, there's a lot of things we're working together on.
NATO expansion we work together on. It was such a refreshing moment when the leaders of the new countries in NATO walked in the room in the Czech Republic. It was a fantastic moment to see these proud members walked in and say, "We're now a member of the greatest alliance ever."
And there's a lot we can continue to do.
In the spirit of the last question, we'll do what it takes to get a peace in the conference.
What the prime minister and I discussed last night is do not we have an obligation to develop a strategy? And the answer is absolutely we have an obligation. And one way to do that is to include the quartet, to bring nations together and say, "Here's what it takes to help the Palestinians develop a state that is truly free."
BUSH: And I'm all for conferences, just so long as the conferences produce something.
And we had a long discussion about whether or not a conference can produce a viable strategy that we could then use as a go-by for our own obligations, as well as the obligations of the Palestinians, for them to have their own state. And the answer is, if that conference will do that, you bet I'm a big supporter.
But one thing is for certain: We are going to develop a strategy so that once the elections are over, we will be able to say, "Here's how we will help you. If you want to be helped, here's what we're willing to do. If you choose not to be helped, if you decide you don't want a free, democratic society, there's nothing we can do."
BUSH: If you think you can have peace without democracy again, I think you'll find that -- I can only speak for myself -- that I will be extremely doubtful that it will ever happen. I've seen it work too many times -- tried too many times.
Now, there's going to be people around who say, "The Palestinians can't develop a democracy; it's impossible for them to live in a free society." I strongly disagree with that.
And so the whole premise of this strategy that we'll outline is all based toward that vision of a free and truly democratic society emerging.
See, what's going to happen is when that happens there will be great trust developed between Israel and the Palestinian people. Free societies are able to develop trust between each other.
BUSH: And there's clearly a lack of trust right now.
And so, yes, we'll do that what it takes to put a strategy in place and advance it and call upon other nations to work with us.
BLAIR: Yes, I mean, that's absolutely right. I mean, what we will do is anything that is necessary to make this strategy work.
The important thing is that, first of all, there's got to be an agreement as to what a viable Palestinian state means. And what we're really saying this morning is that that viable state has to be a democratic state.
The second thing is how do we get there, how do we enable the Palestinians to get there. We will do whatever it takes to help build support for that concept, to work through the details of it and make sure that it can actually be brought into being.
BLAIR: But the bottom line has got to be that if you want to secure Israel and you want a viable Palestinian state, those are two states living side by side and they are democratic states living side by side.
And we've got the chance over the next few months, with the election of a new Palestinian president, to put the first marker down on that.
QUESTION: I know that Iran, as well as Iraq, has been a very significant part of the agenda for this week and I'd like to ask you whether, in light of the nuclear ambitions of Iran, whether America would tolerate a nuclear Iran?
QUESTION: And if the answer to that is no, would Britain, Mr. Prime Minister, stand as four-square behind America on this issue as it has done on Iraq?
BUSH: Let me make sure I understand your question.
You're saying an Iran with a nuclear weapon -- nuclear power or nuclear weapon?
QUESTION: Nuclear weapon.
BUSH: OK.
No, we don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon and we're working toward that end. And the truth of the matter is the prime minister gets a lot of credit for working with France and Germany to convince the Iranians to get rid of the processes that would enable them to develop a nuclear weapon.
BLAIR: Absolutely. And there's an agreement in the international community to make sure that Iran comes into compliance with its international obligations.
BLAIR: And we've been working with France and Germany, obviously, with the United States and other, too, to make sure that that happens.
BUSH: Let's see here. Cochran? John? (LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: I'm totally shocked.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: That's why I call on you.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: You know you talk about democracy being so necessary. There are those who would say there is sometimes a harsh peace of a dictator.
What if the Palestinian state comes up with somebody who is not a democrat, but is willing to have peace with the Israelis?
And let me transfer all that to the Iraqis, as well. What if the Iraqis come up with somebody who's not friendly to the United States, is not a democrat, but it's peaceful?
QUESTION: Is this something you can live with?
BUSH: Well, first of all, if there's an election, the Iraqis will have come up with somebody who is duly elected. In other words, democracy will have spoken. And that person is going to have to listen to the people, not to the whims of, you know, a dictator; not to their own desires -- personal desires.
The great thing about democracy is you actually go out and ask the people for a vote, as you might have noticed recently. And the people get to decide and they get to decide the course of their future. And so it's a contradiction in terms to say a dictator, you know, gets elected.
The person who gets elected is chosen by the people.
BUSH: And so I'm not, you know...
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
BUSH: Well, you can be elected and then, you know, be a strongman, and then you get voted out, so long as you end up honoring democracy.
But if you're true to democracy you'll listen to the people, not to your own desires. If you're true to democracy, you'll do what the people want you to do. That's the difference between democracy and a tyrant.
And the Palestinians may decide to elect a real strong personality, but we'll hold their feet to the fire to make sure that democracy prevails, that there are free elections. And if they don't -- the people of the Palestinian territory don't like the way this person is responding to their needs, they will vote him or her out. And the reason why I'm so strong on democracy is democracies don't go to war with each other. And the reason why is the people of most societies don't like war and they understand what war means.
And one of these days the people of the Palestinian -- the Palestinians will realize that there is a bright future because freedom is taking hold: a future that enables their children to get educated; a future in which they can start their businesses; a future in which they're certain that the monies going into the treasury of their government is being spent fairly, in a transparent way; a future in which corruption is not the norm; a future in which rule of law prevails.
BUSH: And that leads to a peaceful society.
I've got great faith in democracies to promote peace. And that's why I'm such a strong believer that the way forward in the Middle East -- the broader Middle East, is to promote democracy.
I readily concede there are skeptics, people who say democracy is not possible in certain societies. But remember that was said right after World War II with Japan.
BUSH: And today one of the people that I work closest with is my friend Prime Minister Koizumi. And it's remarkable to me that we sit down at the same table talking about keeping the peace in places like North Korea and it really wasn't all that long ago in the march of history that we were enemies.
The prime minister knows Koizumi. He's a good man. And he's an ally because democracy took hold in Japan.
And yet there was a lot of skeptics. When you look at the writings right after World War II, a lot of people said, "You're wasting your time to try to promote democracy in Japan."
There were some, I suspect, maybe in Great Britain and I know in America, that were writing, "You're wasting your time to promote democracy in Germany after World War II."
BUSH: And yet, fortunately, people who preceded us had great faith in liberty that transforms societies. And that's what we're talking about is taking place.
And it's hard and it's difficult to go in a society like Iraq because the terrorists understand the stakes of freedom, and they're willing to kill people in brutal fashion to stop it.
And I believe we have a duty and an obligation to work to make sure democracy takes hold. It's a duty to our own country. It's a duty to generations of Americans and children of Great Britain to help secure the peace by promoting democratic societies.
BLAIR: First of all, I should say Koizumi's a good man not just because I know him, but...
(LAUGHTER)
BLAIR: Although that helps a lot I think.
(LAUGHTER)
But I think the president said something here that I really think is very, very important.
In the politics -- when I was first a member of Parliament and making my way up the greasy pole and all the rest of it, there was a view in foreign policy that you dealt with countries on the basis of whatever attitude they had toward you, that really whatever they did within their own countries that was up to them and didn't really make a difference to your long-term relationship.
I think what we are learning today is that there is not stability of any true, long-term kind without democratic rights for free people to decide their government.
BLAIR: Now, that doesn't mean to say we try and interfere with every state around the world, but it does mean that there's been a shift, and I think a shift quite dramatically since 9/11, in the thinking that is informing our view of how we make progress.
That's why it wasn't enough to go into Afghanistan and root out Al Qaeda or knock down the Taliban, we actually had to go there and say, "No, we must replace that with a democratic form of government. Because in the end, if we replace it simply with another dictator, then we'll get the same instability back."
That's why in Iraq we decided when Saddam was removed, we didn't want another hard man coming in, another dictator.
Now, it's a struggle because democracy is hard to bring into countries that have never had it before.
BLAIR: But I've no doubt at all that the Iraqi people, given the chance -- and indeed you can see this in some of the local elections now down in the south of Iraq -- given the chance, they want to elect their leaders. Why wouldn't they?
I mean, why would they want a strong-arm leader who's going to have the secret police, you know, no freedom of speech, no free press, no human rights, no proper law courts?
The people want the freedom. What we recognized, I think, today, is that we're not going to have our security unless they get that freedom.
So when we come to the issue of Israel and Palestine, I think, what we are saying is, we are going to work flat out to deliver this. But people have to understand we can't deliver something unless the people whom it affects actually want it to happen.
And we don't believe there will be a viable future for a state of Palestine unless it's based on certain key democratic principles. BLAIR: Now, I think that's a tremendous thing.
And I also think that in the end -- of course, you're right. People can vote for the people they'd like to vote for in elections, right? That's what democracy is about.
I think we've got to have some faith, though, in the ability of ordinary people and decent people to decide their own future.
Because it's a curious thing, you look at all these Eastern European countries -- Central, Eastern European countries in the European Union now, just democracies over the last 10 years, fierce election debates, changes of government, often difficult circumstances when the governments changed.
But you go to those countries and talk to the people there, and their sense of liberation and their sense of self-worth as a result of the freedom they have, that is the best testament to why it's sensible to have faith in democracy.
BLAIR: And, you know, sometimes when people say, "Well, it's -- you got a Republican president and a progressive politician from across the water," but in my view, people from different sides of the political spectrum should be able to come together to argue that policy case, because democracy is something that should unite us whatever political position we have.
QUESTION: Mr. President, first.
QUESTION: The prime minister is sometimes, perhaps unfairly, characterized in Britain as your poodle. I was wondering if that's the way you may see your relationship.
And perhaps more seriously, do you feel...
BLAIR: Don't answer yes to that question...
(LAUGHTER)
That would be difficult.
QUESTION: Do you feel for the strong support that Britain has given you over Iraq that you have to pay back Britain for that support in some way?
BUSH: The prime minister made the decision he did because he wanted to do his duty to secure the people of Great Britain. That's why he made the decision.
Plenty capable of making his own mind. He's a strong, capable man. I admire him a lot.
BUSH: You know why? When he tells you something, he means it.
You spend much time in politics you'll know there's some people around this kind of line of work where they tell you something, they don't mean it.
When he says something, he means it. He's a big thinker. He's got a clear vision. And when times get tough he doesn't wilt. You know, when the criticism starts to come his way -- I suspect that might be happening on occasion -- he stands for what he believes in.
That's the kind of person I like to deal with.
I'm a lucky person, a lucky president to be holding office at the same time this man holds the prime ministership.
These are troubled times. It's a tough world. What this world needs is steady, rock-solid leaders who stand on principle, and that's what the prime minister means to me.
BLAIR: I just want to add one thing, which is that -- well, this concept of payback.
BLAIR: We're not fighting the war against terrorism because we are an ally of the United States. We are an ally of the United States because we believe in fighting this war against terrorism.
We share the same objectives. We share the same values.
And if we look back over our own history in the last half century or more, we, both of us in different ways, United States and Britain, have a cause to be thankful for this alliance and this partnership.
BLAIR: And I believe we should be thankful that it is as strong as it is today.
And as long as I remain prime minister of our country it will carry on being strong, not because that's in the interests of America simply or in the interests of the international community, but because I believe passionately it is in the interest of Britain.
BUSH: Thank you all.
LIN: All right. We have just heard from the president of the United States and the British prime minister, a united front on the war on terror, both in Afghanistan, Iraq, and also now in the Middle East peace process, where both reiterate they want to see Democratic elections, what they would consider Democratic elections, amongst the Palestinian people before the west deals with their new leader, whoever that may be; we will find out in 60 days.
I'm going to toss it off to Wolf Blitzer who's up in Washington for more perspective on what the president and the prime minister have to say.
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