Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Thousands Gather in Ramallah to Pay Tribute to Yasser Arafat
Aired November 12, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A figure revered by some, vilified by others, world leaders pay their final respects to Yasser Arafat.
U.S. troops knocking door to door, trying to bring down the insurgency in Fallujah.
And it looks like a shocking abduction caught on tape, but who's the girl and why are police not so sure about it, on this AMERICAN MORNING?
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome everybody. Bill Hemmer has the day off. Rick Sanchez has been kind enough to come up from Atlanta, help us out. We certainly appreciate it.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
O'BRIEN: Thank you. My pleasure.
Some of the stories that we're following this morning, Yasser Arafat laid to rest in Ramallah. Already, you can see the crowds gathering there. In just a moment, we're going to hear from former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, fight out who she thinks is the right choice for the Palestinians to make to help secure peace in the Middle East.
SANCHEZ: Also, the election was more than a week ago. There are still lots of reports, and yes, even some rumors out there about one candidate supposedly getting credit for votes that he didn't actually earn or receive. It is a brouhaha if you look at the computers lately or listen to some radio stations. Carlos Watson is going to have more on that.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How're you doing, Soledad.
There's a chill wind blowing out of Washington D.C. and it's all Janet Jackson's fault. The FCC has now succeeded in scaring television stations into not airing the movie "Saving Private Ryan." It's gone way far enough. We'll take a look at it in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: But isn't it a re-air. I mean, it hasn't been on before? CAFFERTY: It's been on -- yesterday was Veterans Day. It ran on Veterans Day in 2000, Veterans Day on 2001. Yesterday there were 20 stations around the county wouldn't broadcast "Saving Private Ryan" because of the fear of fines from the Federal Communications Commission. It is time for those folks, under Mr. Powell, to go find something else to do with their time besides stifling an Oscar-winning movie on Veterans Day to an audience in what is supposed to be a freedom-loving Democracy. And I'll have more to say on this in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: I was going to say, thank you for clarifying my short comment of, was it ever on before, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Any room left for clarification.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to our top stories this morning. Heidi Collins at our newsdesk.
Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know, do we have time?
O'BRIEN: Yes, you've got a couple of seconds.
CAFFERTY: Aw, that's cute.
COLLINS: Now in the news this morning, everybody, U.S. Marines are going door to door in the Iraqi city of Falluja looking for weapons. Intense fighting continues, as soldiers work to clear the city of insurgents. A Marine commanders says at least 23 American and Iraqi forces have been killed. More than 200 wounded since the operation began on Sunday night.
In the Philippines now, investigators are looking into what caused a deadly train wreck early this morning. The passenger train was traveling to Manila when four of its rail cars derailed and tumbled down this 40-foot-deep ravine. At least 10 people were killed. Dozens others injured.
Ousted Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic is being asked to put his request in writing by the United Nations tribunal. Milosevic is once again demanding world leaders, like British Prime Minister Tony Blair and former U.S. President Bill Clinton be summoned as witnesses in his war crimes trial. The court says Milosevic must prove their testimony is relevant.
And Olympic figure skater Scott Hamilton is expected to be released from the hospital today. Hamilton reportedly has been diagnosed with a benign brain tumor. The 46-year-old underwent a biopsy, and doctors are now working on a treatment plan. Hamilton was diagnosed with testicular cancer back in 1997. The four-time U.S. and world skating champion is now a skating show producer. And what a show he puts on. Good for him.
Soledad, back over to you.
O'BRIEN: He's had tough medical times. Wish him the best. Thanks, Heidi. Appreciate it.
The body of Yasser Arafat expected to arrive in the West Bank any time now. It is being transported by helicopter out of Egypt. Interment ceremonies are planned in just a few hours from now. Overnight, a short military funeral was held amid tight security at a mosque in northern Cairo. From there, the flag-draped casket was taken by a horse-drawn gun carriage to a nearby military base. Presidents, kings and leaders from around the world gathering to pay their respects. Arafat's widow Suha wept as she embraced the couple's 9-year-old daughter.
Yasser Arafat wanted to be buried in Jerusalem, but Israel will not allow it. Instead Arafat be interred before sunset in a marble- lined grave on the grounds of his West Bank compound.
CNN's Michael Holmes is in Ramallah, where the security forces there are having a tough time controlling the crowd of mourners.
Michael, good morning.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad. Yes, that's fair to say. We've been watching that tomb be constructed over the last 36, 48 hours, an extraordinary amount of work has gone on in the compound behind me.
Now the complication is this. You can see those people back there. They are not meant to be there. Thousands of people have literally forced their way into the compound or the Palestinian Authority headquarters, the Muqataa, and are making it very difficult for anyone to land a helicopter here, I can tell you that.
Two helicopters were meant to arrive pretty much any minute now, one of them carrying Yasser Arafat, one of them carrying Palestinian dignitaries and international dignitaries, too, some various foreign ministers and the like. I think you'd be pushing to get one helicopter in there right now. There really is no backup plan to this. They're going to have to get that crowd back and get this helicopter down, because they do have to bury Yasser Arafat before sunset. There is no backup helicopter pad. Well, there is, but then how would you get the body from there to here. There are thousands of people here. Security is outnumbered.
And it really has been quite an extraordinary scene to watch this crowd over the last hour or so pour in to this compound. They're standing on buildings they have no access to, or shouldn't have access to, they're standing on the rubble of buildings that I personally watched being destroyed back in an incursion in 2002. And they basically -- it's an outpouring of emotion -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael, it looks from some of the shots we see, and the crowd behind you as well, looks fairly calm. Is that a fair way to describe it?
HOLMES: Yes, it was even more emotional perhaps 20 minutes ago or so. It is calm. It's not a violent crowd. This is not a violent crowd, it's an emotional crowd. These are people who were told they would be able to see Yasser Arafat's tomb, but not until after 6:00 this tonight, well after this ceremony had taken place. They're not waiting for that. The streets around the Muqataa are thronging with people. And they just emotionally poured their way in. We were talking to senior Palestinian earlier who told us that this is really not all that surprising in a way. The security forces are outnumbered and the people want to be close to Arafat.
Now the question I suppose security people will be asking is, when that helicopter arrives and if it is just one with the body of Yasser Arafat onboard, what will this crowd then do? You have to think back, I remember the funeral of the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran, where the body was surrounded, swarmed by people. And one hopes it doesn't reach that stage here. There seems to be an element of order where the security forces have been able to sort of draw a line in the sand, but that line does just keep moving, inching forward and forward -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael Holmes for us at the compound of Yasser Arafat in Ramallah. Yasser, thanks for that update. We'll continue to check in with you and see if they're actually able to ever land a helicopter there.
Madeleine Albright knows firsthand about the road blocks to peace in the Middle East. She worked closely with Palestinians and Israelis trying to broker a deal during her tenure as secretary of state in the Clinton administration.
Madeleine Albright is in Washington, D.C., this morning with reaction to Arafat's death and what it means for the future.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Secretary Albright, thanks for being with us.
I'm going to start, sort of, bluntly. Do you think the Middle East is better off without Yasser Arafat?
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that it is, because he was not in a position to make some serious decisions about how the Middle East peace process should go forward.
And I met with Arafat many, many times, and I think the sad part is that he was not able to accept the best deal that the Palestinians will ever see.
And nobody should ever be glad that somebody has passed from the scene, and Yasser Arafat was clearly a very large figure. But he was viewed as an obstacle to peace, both by the Israelis and the United States.
And I hope that now, as a result of an election process that's supposed to take place among the Palestinians, that there will be an opportunity for moving forward on a peace process.
O'BRIEN: Many people have predicted that his death does bring this, sort of, possible diplomatic opening available for sitting down again and going back to the talks. What do you think President Bush has to do right now to best leverage this moment of opportunity, if you will?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we have to be very supportive of an electoral process among the Palestinians. They actually have a pretty good possibility of being among the most democratic parts of the Middle East. They have had elections. They are getting ready for municipal elections.
And so the U.S. needs to do that, plus, establish, I think, some back channels to the new Palestinian leadership, and also keep talking to the Israelis about using this opportunity to move forward.
And I think there is a very good chance because this is something that people have been waiting for. But always the unexpected happens. We have to be prepared for that.
But the U.S. needs to be involved, initially quietly, and then I think in a more active way to bring the parties together. Because we're the only ones that are in that kind of a position.
O'BRIEN: When you talk about elections, obviously, you're talking about legitimacy, an actual election, but also, sort of, a legitimacy among the people and legitimacy among other people to negotiate with.
Who is the person that you would point to who you'd say, "That's the person who would be the best to negotiate on behalf of the Palestinians"?
ALBRIGHT: Well, the Palestinians have to make that choice.
But I can tell you that Mr. Abbas, who -- Abu Mazen as we used to call him -- and Abu Ala -- Mr. Qureia -- are people that have actually in the past negotiated with the Israelis. We were present at that time, for instance, at Wye when arrangements were made with the Israelis. And those two men are very realistic and are capable of negotiating.
But it is up to the Palestinians to choose their leaders. There are going to be other people that come forward. But for the time being, I see those two men as being at the top in terms of their capability and their realism.
O'BRIEN: Do those two men have the ability to deal with the militant elements within the PLO? Do they have the ability to deal with Hamas?
ALBRIGHT: Well, that's the big question, and they are going to have to work very hard in terms of building coalitions and trying to respond to what is going to, I think, be a fervor among the Palestinian people.
We just saw in Ramallah where they are trying to have an organized arrival of Yasser Arafat's body and already there are surges of crowds coming in and in many ways undermining the plan. I think that might be symbolic of what could happen among the Palestinians, that there are plans for an orderly transfer of power and for elections, and yet those out in the street are going to want to play a part.
And so this is a very delicate time among the Palestinians, and I think without, kind of, embracing too much the process -- because we, in fact, could stifle it -- we need to make sure that there is a progress toward Palestinian elections, an orderly succession and some ability to harness the various forces that are out there. Not an easy job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
That's the former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. You can see there that is the helicopter bringing, we believe, the body of Yasser Arafat to his Muqataa headquarters in Ramallah. He is to be buried this afternoon there. We've been talking all morning with Michael Holmes who is at this location about the crowds that have gathered, an emotional crowd, not a violent crowd, but a large crowd, which is certainly going to hinder the efforts to land this chopper as you can see. We see some of the shots of the people, they're actually right on helicopter landing pad. They cannot possibly land that chopper until they move those folks back.
But as he described, thousands seem to be pouring over the walls of compound, have breached the compound, trying to break in, in some respects, to get some access, mostly because they obviously feel very strongly about their leader who has passed.
Hanan Ashrawi is a Palestinian legislator, and she joins us as well this morning. I understand, Mrs. Ashrawi, that you were trying to get into the compound to take part in the ceremony.
Explain for me exactly where you are and how difficult it was to get in if in fact you're in.
HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: It was absolutely impossible. I couldn't get into the compound. I'm right now across the street with your group here, with Michael and the rest. It's impossible. The crowds even broke into this building. It's sorts of a sea of people. You couldn't break through to get inside the compound. And now many of the people broke into the compound, through the gates, through the walls, from different sites, and they've left almost no space for the helicopters to land.
So it's just so spontaneous, it's overwhelming and the Palestinians themselves, the people here are just expressing their emotions, their grief, and then their loyalty to the president, and nothing is holding them back. They're holding nothing back and nothing is holding them back, and this is just amazing. It's really a scene that shows direct and immediate loyalty and emotional identification with President Arafat, and an absolute determination to express this loyalty and this affection.
O'BRIEN: We can hear over your microphone just the noise. I mean it's incredibly loud, and as you mentioned, you're across the street. So it must just be deafening for you. Are you surprised at all by this outpouring?
And I have to mention as well, before you answer that, we're now seeing two choppers in the air. I know some dignitaries were going to be coming in as well by helicopter. Not possible, from what can seem, that these are ever going to be able to land behind you.
ASHRAWI: It will be disastrous if they cannot land, because there is place only for one other alternative landing spot, helipad. But right now, they have to land way from Larish (ph), from Egypt. They stopped at the Larish and they're coming here, and they cannot keep hovering. So hopefully the people will make room for the helicopters to land. As we said, there is only one place -- spare place for them to land, in a school down the road a bit.
But the people here are just uncontainable. I mean the sound, the roars, the chants, they're saying we will redeem you with our souls, with our blood, with our lives. expressing their loyalty. And the more they hear the helicopters approaching, the louder the crowd is.
I don't know if you can hear it. I'm sure you can. But it's just amazing. It's entirely unprecedented.
And, no, Soledad, I'm not surprised. I expected this. Everybody expected this. There was a state funeral in Egypt. There was a state departure from France which everybody appreciated. But now the people are claiming him. He is their own. And they're doing this with an immediacy and with an emotional spontaneity that is not statesman- like.
And here are the helicopters.
O'BRIEN: We can see the helicopters. And I tell you, we can hear the noise. And as you pointed out, Miss Ashrawi, you are across the street from this location, and it sounds very loud to us. Again, I'm not sure how they're going to try to land these choppers, which are very large.
HOLMES: Soledad, it's Michael Holmes here. A Jordanian helicopter, a military helicopter, is flying about 50 feet from us now. The dust is blowing up. There are two helicopters, in fact, and they are both going to land here as planned. Enormous helicopters. Let's listen.
O'BRIEN: Michael Holmes reporting for us from Ramallah, on the West Bank.
You're looking inside of Yasser Arafat's compound, where one helicopter, a Jordanian helicopter, we're told, landing, really forcing the crowd back just by the mere force of the wind kicked up. There is some concerns they would not be able to land the chopper with Yasser Arafat's body at this compound, because of the sheer number of people, thousands who have come out. Now of course, some of the members of the national guard are trying to hold that crowd back. Go ahead, Michael.
HOLMES: Soledad, I'm just -- you can hear, there are gunshots ringing out. This is members of the security forces. They are bringing these helicopters and firing shots into the air to keep this crowd back. What officials here do not want are these helicopters, one of which contains the body of Yasser Arafat, being mobbed by this crowd. And that is the sound you see. There are dozens of security officers, all armed with AK-47s, and they all are firing into the air to keep the people back.
O'BRIEN: And, Michael, we cannot only hear that, but we're seeing it as well. There must be some huge concerns. That crowd is very large. And as you mentioned, while they're not violent, they're certainly emotional. And I have to imagine that -- and they're moving in, as one would expect, on that helicopter. Just by sheer numbers, frankly, they'll going to overwhelm these national guardsmen, right?
HOLMES: Oh, completely, they already have. The gunshots continuing to ring out. These emotional Palestinians, as we feared, as soon as they entered this compound a few hours ago, this is what we feared, that the body of Yasser Arafat would be absolutely mobbed, and that is exactly what's happening. I can guarantee you the doors of that helicopter will not open until this crowd has been somehow controlled. The entire Palestinian Authority compound is now just a sea of Palestinians who have come here to mourn Yasser Arafat. The shots still ringing out. This is an extraordinary scene. It is probably not the scene that organizers of this burial would have wanted to see, but my word in many ways, it's not all that surprising.
O'BRIEN: No, one would have to imagine that this is not the way it was supposed to go. Now we see, Michael, the second helicopter has landed as well. It's not very far from the first one that landed. Do we have any idea which is the chopper that contains the body of Yasser Arafat, and what's -- or who is in the other chopper?
HOLMES: I would -- we don't know which one holds the body of Yasser Arafat. I would think it is the one furthest away. I don't know which shot you're seeing. The one that's closest to the trees, because that is closest to the tomb that is being built here in the last few days.
The other helicopter will contain the various dignitaries, Palestinian dignitaries, who attended the funeral in Cairo. That includes the new head of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas, the man who would be favored to win elections in 60 days and become the Palestinian president. It also contains the interim president, Rauhi Fattouh. And we were also led to leave, though it's not certain, that perhaps Suha Arafat, Yasser Arafat's wife, may have made this trip as well, but that was cast under some doubt in the last few hours that she would actually make it here, simply because of this outpouring.
Now I can see that some elements of the crowd on one side of the helicopter are being forced back, and they need to make a pathway -- again, I'm not sure what you're seeing...
O'BRIEN: Go ahead, Michael. We lost your microphone for a minute.
HOLMES: That helicopter to those trees -- OK, Soledad. Between that helicopter and those trees is where the tomb is. And it's -- it, too, has been swarmed by the crowd. Now if they can open up a pathway there, then they may be able to get it out. They're going to have to do something, and probably do it a lot quicker than they had planned on doing it as the shots continue to ring out here.
O'BRIEN: What kind of distance are we talking about that they're going to have to get, from that helicopter to the tomb? And give me a sense, if you will --and I have to tell you, that those shots you're giving us are just remarkable -- of how many people potentially we're talking about and how many security forces we're talking about.
HOLMES: The number of people here is certainly in the thousands. I would estimate inside the compound itself, probably around 5,000 to 7,000, difficult to say. The distance they would have to take his body is really no more than 100 feet or so, 150 feet perhaps. It's not a great distance at all.
But the crush of this crowd is simply enormous. And really, security officers here, the security forces here, they have guns, but they are outnumbered to a ridiculous extent.
What they can -- the best they can hope for probably is to concentrate their force around that one helicopter and try to force an opening there.
O'BRIEN: I got to tell you, Michael, we're looking at shots now where we can see a staircase has been brought out of that helicopter, or rolled up to it. And there are people waving from one of the helicopters. It looks as if they are going to try to attempt to open the door, in spite of that crowd, and maybe they're banking on the idea that everybody is, as you say be, emotional, but not violent, although one has to imagine with the sheer numbers worry's looking at, anything can happen at this point.
HOLMES: Yes, Soledad, this is not -- I would think violence would be a real outside possibility. This is not a violent crowd. It is an emotional crowd. yes, they do -- some Palestinian officials have made their way around the helicopter closest to us and are standing by the door there.
This would, I think, be the helicopter that is containing various dignitaries. So those shots are actually quite close to us here. Those dignitaries include foreign ministers from Jordan, and Turkey, and Egypt and the international policy adviser for the EU, Javier Solana. These are not unimportant people. And to have them put into a situation like this is obviously very concerning for security officials.
O'BRIEN: One would imagine that the security teams that travel with some of those members that are coming as part of those entourages to pay their respects, frankly, to Yasser Arafat have to be very concerned at this point. And we're seeing now a little shoving and pushing, nothing major, but certainly tensions are running high in this emotional crowd. One has to imagine that the security forces traveling, as you say, with all these international dignitaries who are not unimportant people, who come to pay their respects, have to be very concerned about this scene. Michael, we're looking at a very wide shot of just really what's inside the compound with all the people essentially filling our TV screens now.
It is just remarkable how this has -- I think it's fair to say -- sort of fallen apart and turned into this.
HOLMES: I think that's fair to say. This is not the way it was meant to be. Palestinians can be very emotional people. And when it comes to Yasser Arafat, there is no one they could be more emotional about. We're talking earlier with Hanan Ashrawi about how before the burst of the most recent Israeli incursions began back in April 1992, Yasser Arafat's popularity was exceedingly low; it was down in the 30s, as I recall. And it was only since then his popularity has climbed back up into the 80 percentile again, even 90 percentile, since he was held under siege at this very compound.
Now these people were meant to be kept on the outside of these walls. This whole area was meant to be empty apart from the dignitaries and the bodies, the body of Yasser Arafat. Sustained burst there from an AK-47. Yes, it was meant to be completely empty. And then it was about an hour ago, a few hundred people got in, then a few thousand, and then they filled half of this compound. And then as security forces tried to hold them back, they just failed. They were inching forward and forward and forward, and then as you saw yourself, after the helicopters actually arrived, it's been mobbed.
Now I can see an opening being forced here, both by security men and also by Palestinians themselves, taking it upon themselves to force a walkway, if you like, parting this sea of people -- two pathways, thee pathways have now been formed. Many, it would appear, ordinary Palestinians in this crowd, helping to form that pathway. Quite an amazing scene. We can see some movement inside one of the helicopters, as you did, Soledad, but nobody getting out at the moment.
O'BRIEN: And we are hearing that sustained AK-47 gunfire, as you pointed out, and it sounds loud to us, so it must sound really loud to you guys where you are. So I have to imagine -- and, Michael, I'm going to ask you to standby while I talk to Fawaz Gerges. He, of course, is our Middle East expert out of Sarah Lawrence College. Any surprise here? And one has to imagine, with the gunfire, and the crowds and the high tensions, this could disintegrate in moments, frankly.
FAWAZ GERGES, MIDDLE EAST EXPERT: I mean, the situation is highly chaotic, and symbolic and emotional. And, yes, absolutely. I mean, The firing is highly alarming, because this situation could very easily get out of control.
But really, Soledad, the big point tells you that the symbolism of Arafat in the imagination of Palestinians. He represents one of the most potent symbols of Palestinian liberation and self- determination. And I think what we need to understand is that the death of Arafat, even though he was a bit unpopular before his death, I mean, because of, you know, these corruption scandals, I think what has happened, this particular event, the death of Arafat, comes at a very painful moment for Palestinians. Let's remember that Palestinian towns and cities are under occupation again. Eighty percent of Palestinians in Gaza live below the poverty line. Sixty-five percent of Palestinians basically are unemployed. You have Palestinians now -- you have Palestinians now, their society, their institutions are in tatters.
O'BRIEN: Let me interrupt you there while I just describe for folks what we're seeing. As you can see, it looks like a military jeep has pulled up in front of one of these helicopters. We're assume this is the chopper that has the body of Yasser Arafat on it, because this is the one that has really been the focus, not only of the crowd, but also of all the security forces as well. And it looks as if they're going to try in some ways to pull that vehicle up and maybe offload the casket. Very different scene from what we're told happened in Cairo, where they kept the public out. You saw a lot of that.
GERGES: Yes. I mean, in Cairo it was a military service. Egyptian government made sure it was a military service. They had a different, you might say, civil society service. But here you have, I mean, Palestinians, their leader is coming home. And I suggested earlier, I mean, the Palestinians are highly anxious, highly devastated by the loss of their leader. And, unfortunately, the situation appears to be getting out of control, because of the emotions and passions of the crowd.
O'BRIEN: Any surprise that this has happened? The Israeli government made it very clear they would leave all the plans in the hands of the Palestinians. And yet one -- anyone, frankly, could predict this was very likely to happen. The fact the massive crowd could breach the compound at all, surprising. Yet when you look at numbers, not that surprising.
GERGES: Not at all. I mean, so far, truly, the Palestinians have behaved with dignity. This is basically a highly emotional and passionate crowd.
O'BRIEN: And we should underscore, not violent at any point yet.
GERGES: Even though the firing, I mean, the firing, and this is part of the rituals in the Arab and Muslim world in funerals and weddings, a lot of firing. But I think it's not surprising at all. You have tens of thousands of young men and women who are desperate to express their feelings, and their emotions and their passions for their leader.
Let's hope they will be able to get Arafat out of the helicopter and get, of course, all the officials and dignitaries.
O'BRIEN: The outpouring of support for Arafat and what he symbolizes has meant for decades to the Palestinian people really underscores the problem of replacing him.
GERGES: Absolutely. I think the problem was Arafat is that he did not really nourish civil society an institutions. He did not invest in institutional building. He was a one-man show. He did not delegate authority. He not establish an orderly process of succession. And I think the Palestinians now are really facing a monumental period in their life, that what to do after Arafat. Who will succeed Arafat? How do you reform Palestinian institutions? How do you politically engage the Palestinians? How do you, I mean, put Palestinian house in order?
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 12, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A figure revered by some, vilified by others, world leaders pay their final respects to Yasser Arafat.
U.S. troops knocking door to door, trying to bring down the insurgency in Fallujah.
And it looks like a shocking abduction caught on tape, but who's the girl and why are police not so sure about it, on this AMERICAN MORNING?
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome everybody. Bill Hemmer has the day off. Rick Sanchez has been kind enough to come up from Atlanta, help us out. We certainly appreciate it.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
O'BRIEN: Thank you. My pleasure.
Some of the stories that we're following this morning, Yasser Arafat laid to rest in Ramallah. Already, you can see the crowds gathering there. In just a moment, we're going to hear from former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, fight out who she thinks is the right choice for the Palestinians to make to help secure peace in the Middle East.
SANCHEZ: Also, the election was more than a week ago. There are still lots of reports, and yes, even some rumors out there about one candidate supposedly getting credit for votes that he didn't actually earn or receive. It is a brouhaha if you look at the computers lately or listen to some radio stations. Carlos Watson is going to have more on that.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How're you doing, Soledad.
There's a chill wind blowing out of Washington D.C. and it's all Janet Jackson's fault. The FCC has now succeeded in scaring television stations into not airing the movie "Saving Private Ryan." It's gone way far enough. We'll take a look at it in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: But isn't it a re-air. I mean, it hasn't been on before? CAFFERTY: It's been on -- yesterday was Veterans Day. It ran on Veterans Day in 2000, Veterans Day on 2001. Yesterday there were 20 stations around the county wouldn't broadcast "Saving Private Ryan" because of the fear of fines from the Federal Communications Commission. It is time for those folks, under Mr. Powell, to go find something else to do with their time besides stifling an Oscar-winning movie on Veterans Day to an audience in what is supposed to be a freedom-loving Democracy. And I'll have more to say on this in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: I was going to say, thank you for clarifying my short comment of, was it ever on before, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Any room left for clarification.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to our top stories this morning. Heidi Collins at our newsdesk.
Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know, do we have time?
O'BRIEN: Yes, you've got a couple of seconds.
CAFFERTY: Aw, that's cute.
COLLINS: Now in the news this morning, everybody, U.S. Marines are going door to door in the Iraqi city of Falluja looking for weapons. Intense fighting continues, as soldiers work to clear the city of insurgents. A Marine commanders says at least 23 American and Iraqi forces have been killed. More than 200 wounded since the operation began on Sunday night.
In the Philippines now, investigators are looking into what caused a deadly train wreck early this morning. The passenger train was traveling to Manila when four of its rail cars derailed and tumbled down this 40-foot-deep ravine. At least 10 people were killed. Dozens others injured.
Ousted Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic is being asked to put his request in writing by the United Nations tribunal. Milosevic is once again demanding world leaders, like British Prime Minister Tony Blair and former U.S. President Bill Clinton be summoned as witnesses in his war crimes trial. The court says Milosevic must prove their testimony is relevant.
And Olympic figure skater Scott Hamilton is expected to be released from the hospital today. Hamilton reportedly has been diagnosed with a benign brain tumor. The 46-year-old underwent a biopsy, and doctors are now working on a treatment plan. Hamilton was diagnosed with testicular cancer back in 1997. The four-time U.S. and world skating champion is now a skating show producer. And what a show he puts on. Good for him.
Soledad, back over to you.
O'BRIEN: He's had tough medical times. Wish him the best. Thanks, Heidi. Appreciate it.
The body of Yasser Arafat expected to arrive in the West Bank any time now. It is being transported by helicopter out of Egypt. Interment ceremonies are planned in just a few hours from now. Overnight, a short military funeral was held amid tight security at a mosque in northern Cairo. From there, the flag-draped casket was taken by a horse-drawn gun carriage to a nearby military base. Presidents, kings and leaders from around the world gathering to pay their respects. Arafat's widow Suha wept as she embraced the couple's 9-year-old daughter.
Yasser Arafat wanted to be buried in Jerusalem, but Israel will not allow it. Instead Arafat be interred before sunset in a marble- lined grave on the grounds of his West Bank compound.
CNN's Michael Holmes is in Ramallah, where the security forces there are having a tough time controlling the crowd of mourners.
Michael, good morning.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad. Yes, that's fair to say. We've been watching that tomb be constructed over the last 36, 48 hours, an extraordinary amount of work has gone on in the compound behind me.
Now the complication is this. You can see those people back there. They are not meant to be there. Thousands of people have literally forced their way into the compound or the Palestinian Authority headquarters, the Muqataa, and are making it very difficult for anyone to land a helicopter here, I can tell you that.
Two helicopters were meant to arrive pretty much any minute now, one of them carrying Yasser Arafat, one of them carrying Palestinian dignitaries and international dignitaries, too, some various foreign ministers and the like. I think you'd be pushing to get one helicopter in there right now. There really is no backup plan to this. They're going to have to get that crowd back and get this helicopter down, because they do have to bury Yasser Arafat before sunset. There is no backup helicopter pad. Well, there is, but then how would you get the body from there to here. There are thousands of people here. Security is outnumbered.
And it really has been quite an extraordinary scene to watch this crowd over the last hour or so pour in to this compound. They're standing on buildings they have no access to, or shouldn't have access to, they're standing on the rubble of buildings that I personally watched being destroyed back in an incursion in 2002. And they basically -- it's an outpouring of emotion -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael, it looks from some of the shots we see, and the crowd behind you as well, looks fairly calm. Is that a fair way to describe it?
HOLMES: Yes, it was even more emotional perhaps 20 minutes ago or so. It is calm. It's not a violent crowd. This is not a violent crowd, it's an emotional crowd. These are people who were told they would be able to see Yasser Arafat's tomb, but not until after 6:00 this tonight, well after this ceremony had taken place. They're not waiting for that. The streets around the Muqataa are thronging with people. And they just emotionally poured their way in. We were talking to senior Palestinian earlier who told us that this is really not all that surprising in a way. The security forces are outnumbered and the people want to be close to Arafat.
Now the question I suppose security people will be asking is, when that helicopter arrives and if it is just one with the body of Yasser Arafat onboard, what will this crowd then do? You have to think back, I remember the funeral of the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran, where the body was surrounded, swarmed by people. And one hopes it doesn't reach that stage here. There seems to be an element of order where the security forces have been able to sort of draw a line in the sand, but that line does just keep moving, inching forward and forward -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael Holmes for us at the compound of Yasser Arafat in Ramallah. Yasser, thanks for that update. We'll continue to check in with you and see if they're actually able to ever land a helicopter there.
Madeleine Albright knows firsthand about the road blocks to peace in the Middle East. She worked closely with Palestinians and Israelis trying to broker a deal during her tenure as secretary of state in the Clinton administration.
Madeleine Albright is in Washington, D.C., this morning with reaction to Arafat's death and what it means for the future.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Secretary Albright, thanks for being with us.
I'm going to start, sort of, bluntly. Do you think the Middle East is better off without Yasser Arafat?
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that it is, because he was not in a position to make some serious decisions about how the Middle East peace process should go forward.
And I met with Arafat many, many times, and I think the sad part is that he was not able to accept the best deal that the Palestinians will ever see.
And nobody should ever be glad that somebody has passed from the scene, and Yasser Arafat was clearly a very large figure. But he was viewed as an obstacle to peace, both by the Israelis and the United States.
And I hope that now, as a result of an election process that's supposed to take place among the Palestinians, that there will be an opportunity for moving forward on a peace process.
O'BRIEN: Many people have predicted that his death does bring this, sort of, possible diplomatic opening available for sitting down again and going back to the talks. What do you think President Bush has to do right now to best leverage this moment of opportunity, if you will?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we have to be very supportive of an electoral process among the Palestinians. They actually have a pretty good possibility of being among the most democratic parts of the Middle East. They have had elections. They are getting ready for municipal elections.
And so the U.S. needs to do that, plus, establish, I think, some back channels to the new Palestinian leadership, and also keep talking to the Israelis about using this opportunity to move forward.
And I think there is a very good chance because this is something that people have been waiting for. But always the unexpected happens. We have to be prepared for that.
But the U.S. needs to be involved, initially quietly, and then I think in a more active way to bring the parties together. Because we're the only ones that are in that kind of a position.
O'BRIEN: When you talk about elections, obviously, you're talking about legitimacy, an actual election, but also, sort of, a legitimacy among the people and legitimacy among other people to negotiate with.
Who is the person that you would point to who you'd say, "That's the person who would be the best to negotiate on behalf of the Palestinians"?
ALBRIGHT: Well, the Palestinians have to make that choice.
But I can tell you that Mr. Abbas, who -- Abu Mazen as we used to call him -- and Abu Ala -- Mr. Qureia -- are people that have actually in the past negotiated with the Israelis. We were present at that time, for instance, at Wye when arrangements were made with the Israelis. And those two men are very realistic and are capable of negotiating.
But it is up to the Palestinians to choose their leaders. There are going to be other people that come forward. But for the time being, I see those two men as being at the top in terms of their capability and their realism.
O'BRIEN: Do those two men have the ability to deal with the militant elements within the PLO? Do they have the ability to deal with Hamas?
ALBRIGHT: Well, that's the big question, and they are going to have to work very hard in terms of building coalitions and trying to respond to what is going to, I think, be a fervor among the Palestinian people.
We just saw in Ramallah where they are trying to have an organized arrival of Yasser Arafat's body and already there are surges of crowds coming in and in many ways undermining the plan. I think that might be symbolic of what could happen among the Palestinians, that there are plans for an orderly transfer of power and for elections, and yet those out in the street are going to want to play a part.
And so this is a very delicate time among the Palestinians, and I think without, kind of, embracing too much the process -- because we, in fact, could stifle it -- we need to make sure that there is a progress toward Palestinian elections, an orderly succession and some ability to harness the various forces that are out there. Not an easy job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
That's the former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. You can see there that is the helicopter bringing, we believe, the body of Yasser Arafat to his Muqataa headquarters in Ramallah. He is to be buried this afternoon there. We've been talking all morning with Michael Holmes who is at this location about the crowds that have gathered, an emotional crowd, not a violent crowd, but a large crowd, which is certainly going to hinder the efforts to land this chopper as you can see. We see some of the shots of the people, they're actually right on helicopter landing pad. They cannot possibly land that chopper until they move those folks back.
But as he described, thousands seem to be pouring over the walls of compound, have breached the compound, trying to break in, in some respects, to get some access, mostly because they obviously feel very strongly about their leader who has passed.
Hanan Ashrawi is a Palestinian legislator, and she joins us as well this morning. I understand, Mrs. Ashrawi, that you were trying to get into the compound to take part in the ceremony.
Explain for me exactly where you are and how difficult it was to get in if in fact you're in.
HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: It was absolutely impossible. I couldn't get into the compound. I'm right now across the street with your group here, with Michael and the rest. It's impossible. The crowds even broke into this building. It's sorts of a sea of people. You couldn't break through to get inside the compound. And now many of the people broke into the compound, through the gates, through the walls, from different sites, and they've left almost no space for the helicopters to land.
So it's just so spontaneous, it's overwhelming and the Palestinians themselves, the people here are just expressing their emotions, their grief, and then their loyalty to the president, and nothing is holding them back. They're holding nothing back and nothing is holding them back, and this is just amazing. It's really a scene that shows direct and immediate loyalty and emotional identification with President Arafat, and an absolute determination to express this loyalty and this affection.
O'BRIEN: We can hear over your microphone just the noise. I mean it's incredibly loud, and as you mentioned, you're across the street. So it must just be deafening for you. Are you surprised at all by this outpouring?
And I have to mention as well, before you answer that, we're now seeing two choppers in the air. I know some dignitaries were going to be coming in as well by helicopter. Not possible, from what can seem, that these are ever going to be able to land behind you.
ASHRAWI: It will be disastrous if they cannot land, because there is place only for one other alternative landing spot, helipad. But right now, they have to land way from Larish (ph), from Egypt. They stopped at the Larish and they're coming here, and they cannot keep hovering. So hopefully the people will make room for the helicopters to land. As we said, there is only one place -- spare place for them to land, in a school down the road a bit.
But the people here are just uncontainable. I mean the sound, the roars, the chants, they're saying we will redeem you with our souls, with our blood, with our lives. expressing their loyalty. And the more they hear the helicopters approaching, the louder the crowd is.
I don't know if you can hear it. I'm sure you can. But it's just amazing. It's entirely unprecedented.
And, no, Soledad, I'm not surprised. I expected this. Everybody expected this. There was a state funeral in Egypt. There was a state departure from France which everybody appreciated. But now the people are claiming him. He is their own. And they're doing this with an immediacy and with an emotional spontaneity that is not statesman- like.
And here are the helicopters.
O'BRIEN: We can see the helicopters. And I tell you, we can hear the noise. And as you pointed out, Miss Ashrawi, you are across the street from this location, and it sounds very loud to us. Again, I'm not sure how they're going to try to land these choppers, which are very large.
HOLMES: Soledad, it's Michael Holmes here. A Jordanian helicopter, a military helicopter, is flying about 50 feet from us now. The dust is blowing up. There are two helicopters, in fact, and they are both going to land here as planned. Enormous helicopters. Let's listen.
O'BRIEN: Michael Holmes reporting for us from Ramallah, on the West Bank.
You're looking inside of Yasser Arafat's compound, where one helicopter, a Jordanian helicopter, we're told, landing, really forcing the crowd back just by the mere force of the wind kicked up. There is some concerns they would not be able to land the chopper with Yasser Arafat's body at this compound, because of the sheer number of people, thousands who have come out. Now of course, some of the members of the national guard are trying to hold that crowd back. Go ahead, Michael.
HOLMES: Soledad, I'm just -- you can hear, there are gunshots ringing out. This is members of the security forces. They are bringing these helicopters and firing shots into the air to keep this crowd back. What officials here do not want are these helicopters, one of which contains the body of Yasser Arafat, being mobbed by this crowd. And that is the sound you see. There are dozens of security officers, all armed with AK-47s, and they all are firing into the air to keep the people back.
O'BRIEN: And, Michael, we cannot only hear that, but we're seeing it as well. There must be some huge concerns. That crowd is very large. And as you mentioned, while they're not violent, they're certainly emotional. And I have to imagine that -- and they're moving in, as one would expect, on that helicopter. Just by sheer numbers, frankly, they'll going to overwhelm these national guardsmen, right?
HOLMES: Oh, completely, they already have. The gunshots continuing to ring out. These emotional Palestinians, as we feared, as soon as they entered this compound a few hours ago, this is what we feared, that the body of Yasser Arafat would be absolutely mobbed, and that is exactly what's happening. I can guarantee you the doors of that helicopter will not open until this crowd has been somehow controlled. The entire Palestinian Authority compound is now just a sea of Palestinians who have come here to mourn Yasser Arafat. The shots still ringing out. This is an extraordinary scene. It is probably not the scene that organizers of this burial would have wanted to see, but my word in many ways, it's not all that surprising.
O'BRIEN: No, one would have to imagine that this is not the way it was supposed to go. Now we see, Michael, the second helicopter has landed as well. It's not very far from the first one that landed. Do we have any idea which is the chopper that contains the body of Yasser Arafat, and what's -- or who is in the other chopper?
HOLMES: I would -- we don't know which one holds the body of Yasser Arafat. I would think it is the one furthest away. I don't know which shot you're seeing. The one that's closest to the trees, because that is closest to the tomb that is being built here in the last few days.
The other helicopter will contain the various dignitaries, Palestinian dignitaries, who attended the funeral in Cairo. That includes the new head of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas, the man who would be favored to win elections in 60 days and become the Palestinian president. It also contains the interim president, Rauhi Fattouh. And we were also led to leave, though it's not certain, that perhaps Suha Arafat, Yasser Arafat's wife, may have made this trip as well, but that was cast under some doubt in the last few hours that she would actually make it here, simply because of this outpouring.
Now I can see that some elements of the crowd on one side of the helicopter are being forced back, and they need to make a pathway -- again, I'm not sure what you're seeing...
O'BRIEN: Go ahead, Michael. We lost your microphone for a minute.
HOLMES: That helicopter to those trees -- OK, Soledad. Between that helicopter and those trees is where the tomb is. And it's -- it, too, has been swarmed by the crowd. Now if they can open up a pathway there, then they may be able to get it out. They're going to have to do something, and probably do it a lot quicker than they had planned on doing it as the shots continue to ring out here.
O'BRIEN: What kind of distance are we talking about that they're going to have to get, from that helicopter to the tomb? And give me a sense, if you will --and I have to tell you, that those shots you're giving us are just remarkable -- of how many people potentially we're talking about and how many security forces we're talking about.
HOLMES: The number of people here is certainly in the thousands. I would estimate inside the compound itself, probably around 5,000 to 7,000, difficult to say. The distance they would have to take his body is really no more than 100 feet or so, 150 feet perhaps. It's not a great distance at all.
But the crush of this crowd is simply enormous. And really, security officers here, the security forces here, they have guns, but they are outnumbered to a ridiculous extent.
What they can -- the best they can hope for probably is to concentrate their force around that one helicopter and try to force an opening there.
O'BRIEN: I got to tell you, Michael, we're looking at shots now where we can see a staircase has been brought out of that helicopter, or rolled up to it. And there are people waving from one of the helicopters. It looks as if they are going to try to attempt to open the door, in spite of that crowd, and maybe they're banking on the idea that everybody is, as you say be, emotional, but not violent, although one has to imagine with the sheer numbers worry's looking at, anything can happen at this point.
HOLMES: Yes, Soledad, this is not -- I would think violence would be a real outside possibility. This is not a violent crowd. It is an emotional crowd. yes, they do -- some Palestinian officials have made their way around the helicopter closest to us and are standing by the door there.
This would, I think, be the helicopter that is containing various dignitaries. So those shots are actually quite close to us here. Those dignitaries include foreign ministers from Jordan, and Turkey, and Egypt and the international policy adviser for the EU, Javier Solana. These are not unimportant people. And to have them put into a situation like this is obviously very concerning for security officials.
O'BRIEN: One would imagine that the security teams that travel with some of those members that are coming as part of those entourages to pay their respects, frankly, to Yasser Arafat have to be very concerned at this point. And we're seeing now a little shoving and pushing, nothing major, but certainly tensions are running high in this emotional crowd. One has to imagine that the security forces traveling, as you say, with all these international dignitaries who are not unimportant people, who come to pay their respects, have to be very concerned about this scene. Michael, we're looking at a very wide shot of just really what's inside the compound with all the people essentially filling our TV screens now.
It is just remarkable how this has -- I think it's fair to say -- sort of fallen apart and turned into this.
HOLMES: I think that's fair to say. This is not the way it was meant to be. Palestinians can be very emotional people. And when it comes to Yasser Arafat, there is no one they could be more emotional about. We're talking earlier with Hanan Ashrawi about how before the burst of the most recent Israeli incursions began back in April 1992, Yasser Arafat's popularity was exceedingly low; it was down in the 30s, as I recall. And it was only since then his popularity has climbed back up into the 80 percentile again, even 90 percentile, since he was held under siege at this very compound.
Now these people were meant to be kept on the outside of these walls. This whole area was meant to be empty apart from the dignitaries and the bodies, the body of Yasser Arafat. Sustained burst there from an AK-47. Yes, it was meant to be completely empty. And then it was about an hour ago, a few hundred people got in, then a few thousand, and then they filled half of this compound. And then as security forces tried to hold them back, they just failed. They were inching forward and forward and forward, and then as you saw yourself, after the helicopters actually arrived, it's been mobbed.
Now I can see an opening being forced here, both by security men and also by Palestinians themselves, taking it upon themselves to force a walkway, if you like, parting this sea of people -- two pathways, thee pathways have now been formed. Many, it would appear, ordinary Palestinians in this crowd, helping to form that pathway. Quite an amazing scene. We can see some movement inside one of the helicopters, as you did, Soledad, but nobody getting out at the moment.
O'BRIEN: And we are hearing that sustained AK-47 gunfire, as you pointed out, and it sounds loud to us, so it must sound really loud to you guys where you are. So I have to imagine -- and, Michael, I'm going to ask you to standby while I talk to Fawaz Gerges. He, of course, is our Middle East expert out of Sarah Lawrence College. Any surprise here? And one has to imagine, with the gunfire, and the crowds and the high tensions, this could disintegrate in moments, frankly.
FAWAZ GERGES, MIDDLE EAST EXPERT: I mean, the situation is highly chaotic, and symbolic and emotional. And, yes, absolutely. I mean, The firing is highly alarming, because this situation could very easily get out of control.
But really, Soledad, the big point tells you that the symbolism of Arafat in the imagination of Palestinians. He represents one of the most potent symbols of Palestinian liberation and self- determination. And I think what we need to understand is that the death of Arafat, even though he was a bit unpopular before his death, I mean, because of, you know, these corruption scandals, I think what has happened, this particular event, the death of Arafat, comes at a very painful moment for Palestinians. Let's remember that Palestinian towns and cities are under occupation again. Eighty percent of Palestinians in Gaza live below the poverty line. Sixty-five percent of Palestinians basically are unemployed. You have Palestinians now -- you have Palestinians now, their society, their institutions are in tatters.
O'BRIEN: Let me interrupt you there while I just describe for folks what we're seeing. As you can see, it looks like a military jeep has pulled up in front of one of these helicopters. We're assume this is the chopper that has the body of Yasser Arafat on it, because this is the one that has really been the focus, not only of the crowd, but also of all the security forces as well. And it looks as if they're going to try in some ways to pull that vehicle up and maybe offload the casket. Very different scene from what we're told happened in Cairo, where they kept the public out. You saw a lot of that.
GERGES: Yes. I mean, in Cairo it was a military service. Egyptian government made sure it was a military service. They had a different, you might say, civil society service. But here you have, I mean, Palestinians, their leader is coming home. And I suggested earlier, I mean, the Palestinians are highly anxious, highly devastated by the loss of their leader. And, unfortunately, the situation appears to be getting out of control, because of the emotions and passions of the crowd.
O'BRIEN: Any surprise that this has happened? The Israeli government made it very clear they would leave all the plans in the hands of the Palestinians. And yet one -- anyone, frankly, could predict this was very likely to happen. The fact the massive crowd could breach the compound at all, surprising. Yet when you look at numbers, not that surprising.
GERGES: Not at all. I mean, so far, truly, the Palestinians have behaved with dignity. This is basically a highly emotional and passionate crowd.
O'BRIEN: And we should underscore, not violent at any point yet.
GERGES: Even though the firing, I mean, the firing, and this is part of the rituals in the Arab and Muslim world in funerals and weddings, a lot of firing. But I think it's not surprising at all. You have tens of thousands of young men and women who are desperate to express their feelings, and their emotions and their passions for their leader.
Let's hope they will be able to get Arafat out of the helicopter and get, of course, all the officials and dignitaries.
O'BRIEN: The outpouring of support for Arafat and what he symbolizes has meant for decades to the Palestinian people really underscores the problem of replacing him.
GERGES: Absolutely. I think the problem was Arafat is that he did not really nourish civil society an institutions. He did not invest in institutional building. He was a one-man show. He did not delegate authority. He not establish an orderly process of succession. And I think the Palestinians now are really facing a monumental period in their life, that what to do after Arafat. Who will succeed Arafat? How do you reform Palestinian institutions? How do you politically engage the Palestinians? How do you, I mean, put Palestinian house in order?
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
