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CNN Live Saturday

Vice President Cheney Released From Hospital; Falluja Almost Under Control; John McLaughlin Announces Retirement

Aired November 13, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Here is what's happening right now in the news.
Vice President Dick Cheney is out of the hospital and says he's feeling fine. Cheney underwent tests after experiencing some shortness of breath earlier today. CNN's Elaine Quijano will have a live report from the White House in just a few minutes.

And almost finished, that is how a top Iraqi official describes the assault on Falluja. Insurgents are still hiding in vacant buildings, exchanging fire with U.S. and Iraqi forces. CNN's Nic Robertson is going to join me hopefully with a live update as soon as he can.

And the No. 2 man at the CIA has announced his retirement. John McLaughlin took control of the intelligence agency for several months this year between the retirement of CIA director George Tenet and the confirmation of his replacement Porter Goss.

I'm Carol Lin, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

The day after in Ramallah. After an emotionally wrenching burial, Palestinians face the new post-Arafat reality and the reality for Muslims who fear a religious calling to give to charity will label them as terrorists.

Right now, we are going to begin with the latest in the battle for Falluja. The assault on the former nerve center of the Iraqi insurgency may be in its final stages after six days of fighting. U.S. and Iraqi forces are inching closer to securing all of the city. One Iraqi official says the battle is almost finished, but pockets of insurgents remain as does evidence of their brutality.

U.S. Marines say they found a torture chamber in Falluja with two people inside. A relative of one of the hostages alerted the Marines. Screams then led them to a chamber.

Now, we're going to have -- we're still working that story. Obviously, we want to have much more information on that. But we want to also show you right now the battle of Falluja in a simple snapshot. Iraq's national security adviser says 1,000 insurgents have been killed so far, 200 captured. While some civilians remain in the city, 90 percent of Falluja's residents have left to escape the fighting. The assault has claimed the lives of 22 U.S. troops so far.

Now, CNN's Nic Robertson is embedded with U.S. Marines near Falluja right now.

Nic, the things that you have witnessed in your journey -- you have recently just fed in some videotape to the CNN Center. Tell us what you've seen on this day.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, I think what we have seen during our embedding with Charlie Company 13 of the Marine Expeditionary Force is very typical of what the Marines are going through at the moment. It's very unpredictable what's happening inside Falluja. What they're experiencing when they go out and search buildings is they occasionally come under sniper fire, perhaps rocket propel grenade fire from insurgents who are inside buildings.

Commanders say there are perhaps groups of -- or insurgents grouping themselves together in groups of maybe four to six people. What the Marines are doing is going back building to building. One situation we came across, we run a resupply machine inside a Marine armored vehicle going to meet Charlie Company. It was resupply for Charlie Company. As the resupply rolled down the road, got into the back streets of Falluja, it came across Bravo Company. Bravo Company was taking fire. The Marines on board the armored vehicles began returning fire. Sniper fire was incoming. You could hear the cracks going over the vehicle, ricochets coming up off the armored vehicle. And so, this resupply mission suddenly became a reinforcement mission and immediately after that became a medical evacuation mission as some of the Marines from Bravo Company involved in that firefight were injured. They were medically evacuated. The resupply mission went out again and did link up with Charlie Company. But it is very unpredictable.

We've been going building by building with Charlie Company on the streets of Falluja. Just after we left them today, they were attacked again. A small number of Charlie Company received some minor light injuries. That was after the commander earlier in the day said we've been free of injuries over the last few days. He knew that the risk was still there. His men know that the risks are still there. They moved with a great deal of caution on the streets. But I think that unpredictability, the assessment that the city is more or less completely taken is an accurate assessment that the troops that went into the city have now achieved their primary objectives. Nevertheless, there are still numbers of insurgents and one Marine commander told me the problem is they know the ground in the city. We don't know where they are. They can be regrouping to come and find us and until we root them all out, until they're all located, they pose a very serious and very significant threat -- Carol.

LIN: Nic, how are they going to ever know if they're going to root them all out? I mean theoretically, this fighting could go on as this sort of low-level ground warfare indefinitely.

ROBERTSON: There is a potential for that. The battalion commander said wherever my Marines find the insurgents, they engage them, they use better tactics, better weapons and they either arrest them, detain them or they kill them. But one Marine also said to me, one of the problems that he thought they may face -- the Marines may face in the next few days is when civilians begin coming back to Falluja. At the moment, though you don't see anybody on the street at all apart from Marines. There are no Iraqi civilians out on the streets. But a humanitarian mission went into Falluja today. The Marines are expecting the possibility that civilians could follow. What they're afraid is that the insurgents could then mix in with the civilians, making their job one step harder again. The difficulty is is with the number of Marines that there are to secure all the buildings that there are and secure the areas, they can clear each building, building by building. But who is the follow-on? Who remains in control of those buildings after they've been through and cleared them? And they know that this is a problem, but the commanders say they're successfully dealing with it -- Carol.

LIN: All right, thanks very much, Nic Robertson who's embedded with the U.S. Marines. Nic is going to have more on the coalition strategy and the fight for Falluja coming up on "THE CAPTIAL GANG" immediately following CNN LIVE SATURDAY right at the top of the next hour. Nic coming to us as often as he can given the circumstances since he is embedded right in the fire zone.

Now, other problems on the ground as well in Falluja. Humanitarian groups are extremely worried. They are urging the international community to help them deliver aid to civilians in that city. An Iraqi Red Crescent Society truck carrying food and medicine is heading to Falluja right now. And a spokeswoman says conditions in the city are catastrophic.

So what is next in this battle for Falluja? Well, I'm going to be speaking with a CNN military analyst about pursuing the remaining insurgents and actually securing the city and then trying to figure out what the military does with the city after that. He's coming up in just a few minutes.

But right now we want to move on to a health scare for the vice president. Vice President Dick Cheney, they sent him to the hospital for part of the day today and we've been keeping an eye on this situation. CNN's Elaine Quijano is at the White House with more on this.

Elaine, did they find out what was wrong with the vice president?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They did, and actually, what they're saying now is that it is not cardiac related as far as they can tell.

Good evening to you, Carol.

The White House says that Vice President Dick Cheney is back at his residence after undergoing tests at a nearby hospital. Now, earlier today he had complained of a cough and also shortness of breath. And doctors, given the vice president's history of heart trouble, did not want to take any chances.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (voice-over): Vice President Dick Cheney smiled and waved to reporters as he walked out of George Washington University Hospital Saturday. Just beyond camera range, Cheney said he felt fine. His wife Lynne was asked how she felt and briefly replied...

LYNEE CHANEY, WIFE: We're great, thank you.

QUIJANO: About five hours before, the vice president told an adviser he felt shortness of breath and on the advice of his cardiologist headed to the hospital for tests. Aides say Mr. Cheney had been suffering from a cold after returning from an annual hunting trip in South Dakota. A statement from Cheney's doctor Jonathan Reiner and released by the White House said, "Tests ruled out any cardiac cause of the vice president's symptoms. Tests also ruled out pneumonia and other pulmonary causes. The vice president likely has a viral, upper respiratory infection."

Mr. Cheney who suffered the first of four hearts at age 37 has had quadruple bypass surgery and a stent to open a blocked artery, which doctors later had to reopen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now as for the president, he learned, we are told, of the vice president's situation from Andy Card, the White House chief of staff. We were told the president was notified about this by early afternoon -- Carol.

LIN: Elaine, still an upper respiratory infection, that could lead to pneumonia, other complications, still pressure on his heart. So is the vice president going to be working and if so, with any restrictions?

QUIJANO: We haven't heard anything to that effect but obviously, the vice president was out on the campaign trail quite vigorously campaigning in the weeks and months leading up to the election. So, certainly, the idea for him to get some rest, I'm sure is part of what the doctor is prescribing. But we don't have any official word on whether or not his work schedule might be curtailed at this particular point -- Carol.

LIN: All right. But back home and I'm sure getting a lot of rest. Thanks very much, Elaine. I know you're going to be watching this story very carefully.

Also, please be sure to catch the vice president's wife, Lynne Chaney, on CNN's "LATE EDITION." That is tomorrow at noon Eastern. I'm sure the family wants to put to rest any rumors.

All right, in the meantime, we're going to go back to the Middle East. A day after Arafat's burial, Palestinians still stream past his tomb to pay their last respects. While what's left of their government sets up the date for elections. One candidate is actually in an Israeli prison.

Plus, he's guilty. That was how some people reacted to the Scott Peterson verdict.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to say hi to my family, grandmother, uncles, brothers, and sisters back in Florida. I miss you. I love you. Happy Holidays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Haunting words. He taped this message to his family from Iraq and just days later tragedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, the push through Falluja may be in its final phase, but it is not over yet by any means. So joining me now is CNN military analyst retired Major General Terry Murray to talk about the status of the battle.

MAJ. GEN. TERRY MURRAY, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET): Good evening, Carol.

LIN: Good evening, General. Give me an idea of when we hear that it's almost secure, what does that really mean? Is that a little like almost pregnant? I mean how decent a situation are the troops in right now?

MURRAY: I think you have to take it with a grain of salt, Carol, because they've moved -- coalition forces that is, have moved through the city very quickly, attacking key objectives as they went. Allowing that, they've got the insurgents bottled up, we think, in the southern part of Falluja. However, we also know that the balance of the coalition forces on the Iraqi side are doing a very careful house- to-house search from north to south, while the American forces, it appears, the Marines and the Army forces, have, in fact, contained the insurgents in an area in the southern part of the city. And as you also know, there is a blocking force and a circumference around the entire city, so in effect what you have is a north to south attack and a blocking position in the south. And we've got the insurgents, at least most of them, between those two forces.

LIN: But how do you measure success in this battle when there's not going to be an official surrender? You're facing an enemy that is not in uniform. So what happens next?

MURRAY: I think what the coalition forces will try to do is to eradicate the balance of the insurgents that they can actually fix in place. And we're guessing now that maybe up to 1,000 insurgents have been killed, potentially several hundred more in the southern part of the city. And who knows. One of the reasons for this house-to-house search that is being done concurrent with the battle in the south is to ensure that the guerrillas did not go underground as we went through the city. So it's going to be a painstaking effort over the next several days if not a few weeks, I believe, for them to determine that they have rooted out all of the insurgents inside of Falluja. LIN: Well, humanitarian groups -- two questions on the humanitarian front because humanitarian groups are saying that there are civilian casualties, people going untreated. So really there are two questions here, one, there are humanitarian groups who are now heading into Falluja. How is that going to complicate the mission of U.S. forces who are trying to wrap up this battle?

MURRAY: On the one hand, it's a good thing that there are organizations moving into Falluja to begin to provide some support to those civilians that are left behind. What we believe based on all of the reporting that we've heard to date is that there are very, very few civilians in the city. However, when the civilians begin to come back into the city, they will greatly complicate everything that military forces are trying to do and, in fact, we know, since this is a very, very strong Sunni population, that they will probably be guerrillas who will come back with them, and we expect that the Sunnis...

LIN: OK, you make a good point because if the humanitarian workers are saying that there are civilians, you know, a significant number enough that they're willing to risk their lives to go and help these people and then you've got the U.S. military giving a body count, 600 to 1,000 insurgents killed. How do they know that the people -- how do they do that body count? How do they know that those who are killed are insurgents when they do that count?

MURRAY: There is some guesswork involved in that, for certain. The reality is, when the civilians were evacuated from the city, the assumption going in was that, as you targeted specific sectors of the city, if, in fact, you had people shooting at you, there was a good probability that those were, in fact, insurgents or terrorists or foreign fighters.

Is it possible that there have been some civilians who have been injured during the course of this operation? I think that is probably the case. Allowing that, I believe also that the senior coalition leaders have been in and around the city quite expensively and to date, we've had no reports from them that the civilians have been in the line of fire.

LIN: All right, Major General Terry Murray, thank you very much.

We're going to have much more on this story and questions around those battle strategies and how you tell an insurgent from a civilian or whatnot, how the military is coming up with these numbers in our prime-time show at 10:00.

But still in this hour, faith and fear. Their faith demands that they make charitable donations, but now many American Muslims fear the possible repercussions. I'm going to talk about that.

And later, he was dismissed as a juror in the Scott Peterson case. So what does he think of the verdict? He is actually shocked. I'm going to be talk with Justin Falconer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LIN: Palestinians continue to arrive at Yasser Arafat's burial site to pay their final respects to the late Palestinian leader. Arafat was buried yesterday at his West Bank compound in Ramallah. Well, today, Palestinian officials joined crowds of mourners at Arafat's tomb and Michael Holmes has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A dignified and somber start to the day after Yasser Arafat's burial. Palestinian officials, including the new No. 1 man at the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas, praying at dawn near the tomb of the former leader. The prayers mark the start of Eid al-Fitr, the feast that marks the beginning of the end of the month long observance of Ramadan. A stark contrast to the chaos of Arafat's burial Friday. A compound that was meant to be off limits to the public, the scene of an emotional melee as the former president was brought back to Ramallah to be interred.

Saturday, visitors, ordinary Palestinians, visiting the tomb throughout the day. Eid is also a time to remember the dead.

"I came here today to show my children that we have a leader," this man says, "one who sacrificed his life for our cause." Elections in two months, concerns about who is next, the question, what will happen now, all put aside this day for remembrance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yasser Arafat, I don't think of anyone but Yasser Arafat because he was a great man.

HOLMES: Despite his failures and there were many, Arafat was always forgiven by his people. Even his closest aides say he was, in many ways, one of a kind.

NABIL SHA'ATH, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It's going to be very difficult to replace Yasser Arafat. Charismatic leaders like this are not found every now and then. They are really difficult to come by, and they are unique in their own. And so we're not really positing all our efforts on finding a leader that replicates Yasser Arafat and that's why we divided the responsibilities of Yasser Arafat.

HOLMES: Yasser Arafat's resting place, say Palestinians, won't be the final one. Their dream of an independent state with East Jerusalem is its capital is still alive, a timetable distant at this point and far from certain but alive.

(on camera): But until then, this place, the scene of Yasser Arafat's virtual incarceration for the last three years, is, say Palestinians, a fitting symbol of resistance.

Michael Holmes, CNN, Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, Secretary of State Colin Powell says he hopes to meet with Palestinian leaders to talk about ways to bring peace to the Middle East. But he didn't give a date for that meeting only saying in the very near future. Now, the Palestinian foreign minister says the talks will take place, though in the Middle East.

Palestinian parliamentary speaker Rawhi Fattuh has been sworn in as Arafat's temporary replacement. Now, as far as a permanent successor, Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei says elections will come before January 9. To give us an idea of what these changes may mean for peace in the region or even if we can get to that point, Philip Willcox is joining me right now. He's president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace. He's also the former U.S. Council General in Jerusalem.

It's good to have you, Mr. Ambassador.

PHILIP WILCOX, FOUNDATIONFOR MIDDLE EAST PEACE: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: Before we talk about this alleged election date that's been bandied about by the Palestinians, let me ask you about President Bush's news conference yesterday. He was very insistent and in fact, the only thing he was specific about in terms of the Middle East peace process was that the United States was insisting on a Democratic -- a fair and Democratic election by the Palestinians. Wouldn't it then be fair for the president to equally ask of Israel that they freeze settlement development in the West Bank, that they start negotiations about the path of this security fence, that they also ask specifically that the military back off so that the Palestinians can have elections in January?

WILCOX: I agree with you, Carol. There can't be Democratic reform unless there's a parallel process of political negotiations leading to Israel's withdrawal from the occupied territories, evacuation of settlements and the creation of a Palestinian state. The two have to go together. I am encouraged; however, that the president promised that he's going to re-engage.

LIN: He's going to re-engage, but it's -- right now it's conditional because the only thing he would commit to is that he wants to see free and fair elections. He's not saying specifically what the United States would do to make sure that would happen. In other words, everybody that I have spoken to on this issue says President Bush needs to personally pick up the phone, call Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and say, "You need to pull back your tanks, you need to create an environment so that these Palestinians can have a credible election." That hasn't happened. And furthermore, the president, when asked if he would name a special envoy to the Middle East, he hedged. So why not take those specific steps and take them now?

WILCOX: I think the president is still heavily preoccupied with Iraq, but I think that an aggressive engagement in Israeli/Palestinian diplomacy by the United States would help us in Iraq. I think he has to do exactly what you've suggested. He has to lean on the new Palestinian leadership to halt the violence, but that has to be coupled with similar forceful persuasion of Prime Minister Sharon to freeze settlements, pull back his forces and resume political talks. LIN: And if he does not do that, say, in the next 60 days, which is the time table the Palestinians have for free elections, what happens?

WILCOX: Well, the elections ought to be the immediate focus and that's going to require cooperation from the government of Israel, too. Its forces, who are occupying parts of the West Bank, will have to help facilitate the elections. Otherwise, they simply can't take place. There also has to be arrangements for east Jerusalem by Arabs to vote in those elections. And that could be a sticking point.

LIN: It could be a sticking point because just a month ago -- I think it was a month or two ago, the Israelis raided several election offices in east Jerusalem so that may not be a good indication of their intent. We'll see what happens. In the meantime, on the Palestinian side, do you think Islamic jihad and Hamas are going to field candidates in this election?

WILCOX: I don't think they've made that decision yet. My own view is that there is a pragmatic moderate element in the Islamist community. It's important that the secular Palestinians negotiate with them to split the moderates from the radicals and bring the moderates into the political process. I think that efforts toward unity, secular, religious unity is essential for stability and political progress.

LIN: And moderate is not always popular. The name that is now surfacing is Marwan Barghuouti (ph). You know him. He's one of the leaders in Arafat's Fattah Movement. He is one of the instigators of the current anti-Fattah and he is sitting with, I don't know how many life sentences in an Israeli prison right now. The consensus though is that he is the most popular and the most likely to unify the different factions of the Palestinian movement. Do you think there may be a deal to release him from prison and do you think he would be a good candidate?

WILCOX: Well, I wouldn't want to predict who the Palestinian candidate should be, but Marwan Barghouti (ph) has been a militant, but he's also a pragmatist and a moderate. He's been a consistent supporter of peace with Israel and a two-state solution. He's the kind of person that ought to be encouraged to get back into Palestinian politics. I think he would be a good interlocketer with the Israelis.

LIN: Wouldn't that be interesting? Although the Israeli foreign minister has so far said he's staying in prison as far as the Israelis know. But it is the Middle East, anything can happen, Mr. Ambassador. Thanks for joining us.

WILCOX: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: All right. We've got some other news. Starting up on the half hour here, welcome back, in case you're just joining us. Here's a quick look at what's happening.

Vice President Dick Cheney says he's feeling fine. He spent part of the day at a Washington hospital for tests after experiencing shortness of breath. Aides say initial results showed nothing abnormal. Dick Cheney has a history of heart problems, as you know.

And Iraq's interim prime minister says he won't be deterred by the kidnapping of his relatives. Iyad Allawi made the remarks today while visiting Nasiriyah. The group claiming responsibility for the capture is threatening to behead the hostages unless all Iraqi prisoners are released and the assault on Fallujah ends.

And U.S. troops wounded in the assault on Falluja have begun arriving at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. The troops are being taken to a nearby U.S. military hospital for treatment. The Pentagon says at least 22 U.S. troops have been killed and 170 wounded in Falluja.

Now, he was dismissed from the jury just weeks into the trial. But this former juror did hear the evidence against Scott Peterson. So is he surprised by the verdict, and what can he tell us about the other jurors? I'm going to talk to him.

Plus, the wounds that never heal. A face behind the latest fatalities in Falluja and a family left to grieve.

And later, afraid to give. They want to donate to charity, but several Muslim-Americans now say they are scared.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. We want to move on to another big story this week, the Scott Peterson verdict. One day after a jury found him guilty of killing his wife Laci and their unborn son, the verdict is still reverberating and beyond. CNN's David Mattingly is outside the courtroom in Redwood City.

David, you got a chance to talk to folks. What are people telling you?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, Laci Peterson was first reported missing almost two years ago and yesterday's verdict revealed to us once again how much emotion has built up behind this case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A crowd of hundreds outside the San Mateo County Courthouse greeted the guilty verdict with cheers. The reaction was the same in Scott and Laci Peterson's hometown of Modesto.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a rotten person. I mean they proved how bad a person that man is.

MATTINGLY: At the house where prosecutors say Peterson killed his pregnant wife before dumping her body in San Francisco Bay, people from all over the country continued to send flowers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you look at the emotion of this case, you could convict him five times over and I think that's what happened here.

MATTINGLY: Justin Falconer was kicked off the jury in June after making a brief comment to Laci Peterson's brother. Juror Frances Gorman was dismissed last Tuesday after conducting outside research during deliberations. In spite of a gag order, she told San Francisco affiliate, KTVU, she agreed with the verdict.

FRANCES GORMAN, FORMER PETERSON JUROR: My understanding from the judge is that I am gagged until the jurors are released, which I believe is after the final penalty phase and after they are released. So that's about all I can say. I can tell you if I was the 13th juror, I'd be in there saying, go get him.

MATTINGLY: Anti-Peterson sentiments were so strong after the verdict; the Peterson family was taunted by people in the crowd as they exited the courthouse. Now facing a possible death sentence, Peterson remains in his cell awaiting the legal fight for his life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: It's a fight that has one of only two outcomes. Either Scott Peterson will go to California's death row or he will spend the rest of his life behind bars without parole, Carol.

LIN: David, the deliberations over the final sentencing, I mean, how long is that going to take, do you think?

MATTINGLY: It -- we're supposed to have a decision shortly after Thanksgiving. This is only going to take a couple of days of arguments and the judge feels like this is going to move rather quickly not at all as slow as the trial itself did go.

LIN: All right, thanks very much. David Mattingly reporting live in Redwood City.

Well, Justin Falconer, you saw him in Jason's piece. He can offer a unique, behind-the-scenes look at the Peterson case. He served on the jury until he was dismissed just a few weeks into the trial.

Good to have you, Justin, because I understand that you're actually shocked by the verdict. Why so?

JUSTIN FALCONER, FORMER PETERSON JUROR: You know, I am. You know, I can't wait for the other jurors to come out and talk about what it was that pushed them over the top because you know I -- if you look at the evidence and you know there's been a lot of people who have said the same thing -- and the evidence is very circumstantial, very -- you know -- I mean, it's not even -- it's very skeptical. I mean you just -- there's no when, where, why, how? The most that they can tell you is where her body, you know, washed up and how it -- and tried to attach it to him, but... LIN: But look at it this way. I mean all the legal analysis, and I see where you're going with this because, you know, there's no definitive crime scene necessarily, no weapon, no time necessarily of death. But at the same time, it seemed to boil down to the fact that nobody else seemed to have a motive to kill Laci Peterson and that her body was found right where Scott Peterson said that he was fishing on Christmas Eve. Why didn't that add up to you and most murder cases are circumstantial?

FALCONER: Well, you know, it was just the evidence surrounding it too. You know the prosecution put on a case that was really, you know, sketchy. They tried to prove a motive, which ended up getting disproven. All of their witnesses ended up being better defense witnesses. Their police officers lied on the stand. I mean it's just -- you know all of this happened and so while you're sitting here watching this, you're going well, how strong is this case. Even when they said that she washed up, they still could never -- you know attach her to the boat. They said the dog found her scent on the docks but never found her scene in the boat.

LIN: All right. So let me ask you about the dynamics of this week because you know all the characters in the courtroom, right? All right. So you know Fran Gorman. You know Gregory Jackson, who were both dismissed this week, replaced by, as we've been describing, a young mother with nine tattoos and four kids and a firefighter who hardly took any notes and looked bored during the trial. Give me an idea of how the characters -- who the characters are and how it played out.

FALCONER: Well, I mean -- you know I knew for a fact when 6 took over that there was going to be a quick verdict. He hasn't wanted to be there since day one. He didn't want to be there at all. So he's wanted this to get over as fast as possible. But you know I'm really surprised at the way the verdict came out. And then I'm surprised about the reports coming out that the reasons Juror No. 5, the original foreman, was dismissed. It's really surprising and I hate to think that these people...

LIN: What are the reports you are talking about?

FALCONER: Well, there was a report that he was dismissed because he wanted to deliberate the facts and the other jurors did not. And I mean it kind of supports that statement, if you think that, you know, there was evidence coming in because he was calling it in, but in the last five hours or four hours that they were deliberating, they never asked for one piece of evidence. They knew exactly what they wanted the minute they walked into that room.

LIN: Really? So when do you think -- did it turn? I mean, you know, when there was a new jury then that was meeting on Friday, what do you think it turned on? Was it the photos inside the house? The blouse that the jurors were allowed to finger that Laci was last saw alive in? What do you think it turned on?

FALCONER: You know, I don't know. I think that, you know, from what I understand, there's a possibility -- and I'm saying it's just a possibility -- it's rumors that I think need to be investigated. We're not going to know until Juror No. 5 comes out and speaks. But I mean there's rumors that, you know, they were more worried about the public, you know, reaction to the verdict than, you know, actually figuring out this case. And that's one of the rumors that's coming out. And that's frightening, if you think about it because -- I mean, I can understand where they would be a little bit, you know apprehensive.

LIN: Yes, a high-profile case. Well, Justin, we're not going to know until we do get a chance to talk to them, which may not be after some time after Thanksgiving, but boy, what a case to be involved in.

FALCONER: It'll be interesting.

LIN: It sure will. Justin Falconer, it's not the last we've heard of this case, clearly. Thank you.

FALCONER: Thank you.

LIN: Well still ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, the price of freedom. A new exhibit documents the history of war in America and we've got your first look.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE MARTINEZ, SISTER OF OSCAR MARTINEZ: No one should be dying over there because of President Bush. He made everybody come over there and fight and because of him, my brother died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The wounds of war. This soldier taped a holiday greeting from Iraq and now tragedy strikes for a Florida family and much more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, these are indeed tense times for families with loved ones on the front lines in Iraq. More than 1,100 U.S. troops have died since the war began. And we hear the stories of two of them from reporters Gary Nelson (ph) of WFOR in Miami and Don Levitton (ph) of WJXT in Jacksonville.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martha Mendez clutches a videotape this day. "I'm so sad that I'll never see him again," she says, speaking of the young man on the tape. Her grandson, Oscar Martinez, in a holiday greeting filmed in Iraq just days before he was killed in a mortar attack.

O. MARTINEZ: I want to say hi to my family, grandmother, uncle, brothers and sisters, friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video came to CBS 4, a holiday handout from the military. We delivered it to the Marine's family in North Lauderdale.

"He didn't need to lose his life," she says of the grandson she raised as a son, a 19-year-old killed just a few months after joining up. "I didn't want him to go," she says, "but I respected his choice." His little brother nodded and wept. His little sister cried, too.

M. MARTINEZ: I just can't believe that my brother died and I feel so angry about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Angry at the president who placed a wreath this Veterans Day.

M. MARTINEZ: No one should be dying over there because of Bush. He made everybody come over there and fight and because of him, my brother died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martha Mendez was not bitter today only grieving as she held the videotape. "This Christmas will be painful, sad," she says. "The children will have no Christmas."

O. MARTINEZ: I want to say hi to my family, grandmother, uncles, brothers and sisters, friends, back in Florida. I miss you. I love you. Happy Holidays.

CAROLYN WOODS, MOTHER OF JULIAN WOODS: My baby's gone. My baby's gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emotions overcome Carolyn Woods, the mother of Julian Woods, dealing with the tragic lost of her youngest child. The difficult news coming to her West Side home.

C. WOODS: When the doorbell rang this morning and I peeked out the door and when I seen those two guys standing there in their white uniform, I just lost it because I didn't want to hear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julian, just 22, was killed Wednesday during the U.S. assault on Falluja. A Navy Corpsman, he was on the Iraqi battlefield with the Marines, other men and women he was charged with saving.

ALEXIS WOODS, SISTER OF JULIAN WOODS: I'm not mad. I'm not angry. I'm at peace with myself because my brother, he died for a cause.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His younger sister, Alexis, shares her love for her brother. The two actually graduated together from Ed Wyth High before he joined the service in 2000.

A. WOODS: We're not twins, but he was my other half. And when he died, that's a part of me that's gone.

O.J. WOODS, BROTHER OF JULIAN WOODS: I think he's a hero. He is. He's my hero. He went out -- at least he went for a good reason.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His brother, O.J., several years older, also a Navy sailor who was stationed with Julian in Virginia. O.J. WOODS: I got a lot of good memories. That's all I got now is good memories of my brother. I miss him a lot.

C. WOODS: On the days he felt he couldn't go on, you can do it, son. I told him, you are my hero. And he wrote me back and said, "No, mom, you are my hero. I get my strength from you."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Wow! The U.S. death toll in Iraq now stands at 1,174.

And still to come tonight, raising money for a good cause. Why it's becoming harder for Muslim charities to do?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Muslims all over the world are celebrating the beginning of Eid al-Fitr, a three-day holiday that ends the holy fasting month of Ramadan. Today, worshippers packed mosques in Mecca for morning prayers. And religious services are followed by festivals and family get-togethers. And during Ramadan, Muslims are expected to give money to the poor, but many Muslim-Americans are now nervous about donating to Islamic charities fearing they're going to be accused of having ties to terror groups. CNN's Alina Cho investigated.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): During the holy month of Ramadan, Muslims pray, fast and give money to the poor.

AMANEY JAMAL, MUSLIM EXPERT: One of the major pillars of Islam is to give to charity and especially during this holy month of Ramadan.

CHO: The Muslim faithful typically donate 2.5 percent of their wealth every year. But post-September 11th, the FBI has cracked down on Islamic charities suspected of having terrorist ties. And that's left many Muslims too scared to donate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a lot of the community does feel very alienated now.

CHO: Adam Carroll works for the Islamic Circle of North America. The relief arm of that group collects food for the needy, helps families of detainees and orphans overseas, causes Muslims care deeply about. But since the crackdowns, donations have dropped 50 percent.

MUHAMMAD RAHMAN, EXEX. DIRECTOR, ICNA RELIEF: If we had 2,000 or 3,000 orphans, now we've got 2,000 orphans.

CHO: Muslim experts say when it comes to the issue of supporting orphans; the children can sometimes be linked to what their parents may have done.

JAMAL: Giving money to these orphans is seen as supporting terrorism because you're basically telling a would-be -- for example, a would-be suicide bomber, don't worry if you kill yourself, your family or your children will be taken care of.

CHO: Some Muslims say they are so fearful about leaving a money trail that charities say when they do give they give smaller amounts in cash. Mohamed Younes is an elder in Paterson, New Jersey's Muslim community.

MOHAMED YOUNES, AMERICAN MULSIM UNION: The people have been more careful and they've been more, you know, aware of this -- not just to donate, you know, now we're asking where did the donation go and why -- how are you going to spend it.

CHO: The FBI says despite the crackdown, law-abiding Muslims have nothing to fear and should give as they please.

JAMAL: It's a feeling that I'm trying to be a good citizen and I'm trying to be a good human being, and yet, I'm also being thought of as a terrorist or supporting terrorism.

CHO: Making charity, giving to others, a mixed blessing for Muslim-Americans during this holy month of Ramadan.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Much coming up in the world of politics, too. Here's Al Hunt to tell us what's ahead on "THE CAPITAL GANG."

Good evening, Al.

AL HUNT, CO-HOST, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Good evening, Carol. Senator-elect John Thune, who defeated Democratic leader Tom Daschle in South Dakota, joins the gang. We'll look at the Bush Administration's response to the death of Yasser Arafat, the cabinet shakeup in Washington and much more all next on CNN.

LIN: Well, a new exhibit at the Smithsonian Museum in Washington takes visitors on a fascinating and emotional journey through some of the most painful moments in U.S. history. It is a detailed look at American wars from the Colonial Era to the current campaign in Iraq. And some members of the military attended this week's dedication ceremony. Here's their perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: From the Revolutionary War to the global war on terrorism, America's sons and daughters have indeed paid the very high price of freedom. We must remember that war is never glorious, that it's a terrible thing and brutal and tragic. The people whose stories are told in this exhibit and the countless American graves around the world serve as reminders of the willingness to bear this burden of defending liberty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are 150,000 Americans in Vietnam.

MAJ. JIM NEWMAN, VIETNAM VETERAN: This aircraft means a lot being in here not just because it was the aircraft I got shot up in Vietnam, but because it is the aircraft we used in Vietnam. It means a lot to all the veterans. And they'll be able to talk about experiences there that they never were able to before.

SGT. ORLANDO GILL, WOUNDED IN IRAQ: It shows history maybe not at its best, but at its worst, like, the things we have to do to be here now. It showed just the bad side of what we had to do to be free.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: It's a high price.

That's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next, "THE CAPITAL GANG" and then 8:00 Eastern on "CNN PRESENTS: KINGDOM ON THE BRINK," then at 9:00, "LARRY KING." Tonight, you're going to see the 1995 interview with the late Yasser Arafat, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and Jordan's King Hussein.

And I'm going to be back at 10:00 Eastern for a preview of a Jacqueline Kennedy exhibit that will take you back to Camelot. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 13, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Here is what's happening right now in the news.
Vice President Dick Cheney is out of the hospital and says he's feeling fine. Cheney underwent tests after experiencing some shortness of breath earlier today. CNN's Elaine Quijano will have a live report from the White House in just a few minutes.

And almost finished, that is how a top Iraqi official describes the assault on Falluja. Insurgents are still hiding in vacant buildings, exchanging fire with U.S. and Iraqi forces. CNN's Nic Robertson is going to join me hopefully with a live update as soon as he can.

And the No. 2 man at the CIA has announced his retirement. John McLaughlin took control of the intelligence agency for several months this year between the retirement of CIA director George Tenet and the confirmation of his replacement Porter Goss.

I'm Carol Lin, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

The day after in Ramallah. After an emotionally wrenching burial, Palestinians face the new post-Arafat reality and the reality for Muslims who fear a religious calling to give to charity will label them as terrorists.

Right now, we are going to begin with the latest in the battle for Falluja. The assault on the former nerve center of the Iraqi insurgency may be in its final stages after six days of fighting. U.S. and Iraqi forces are inching closer to securing all of the city. One Iraqi official says the battle is almost finished, but pockets of insurgents remain as does evidence of their brutality.

U.S. Marines say they found a torture chamber in Falluja with two people inside. A relative of one of the hostages alerted the Marines. Screams then led them to a chamber.

Now, we're going to have -- we're still working that story. Obviously, we want to have much more information on that. But we want to also show you right now the battle of Falluja in a simple snapshot. Iraq's national security adviser says 1,000 insurgents have been killed so far, 200 captured. While some civilians remain in the city, 90 percent of Falluja's residents have left to escape the fighting. The assault has claimed the lives of 22 U.S. troops so far.

Now, CNN's Nic Robertson is embedded with U.S. Marines near Falluja right now.

Nic, the things that you have witnessed in your journey -- you have recently just fed in some videotape to the CNN Center. Tell us what you've seen on this day.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, I think what we have seen during our embedding with Charlie Company 13 of the Marine Expeditionary Force is very typical of what the Marines are going through at the moment. It's very unpredictable what's happening inside Falluja. What they're experiencing when they go out and search buildings is they occasionally come under sniper fire, perhaps rocket propel grenade fire from insurgents who are inside buildings.

Commanders say there are perhaps groups of -- or insurgents grouping themselves together in groups of maybe four to six people. What the Marines are doing is going back building to building. One situation we came across, we run a resupply machine inside a Marine armored vehicle going to meet Charlie Company. It was resupply for Charlie Company. As the resupply rolled down the road, got into the back streets of Falluja, it came across Bravo Company. Bravo Company was taking fire. The Marines on board the armored vehicles began returning fire. Sniper fire was incoming. You could hear the cracks going over the vehicle, ricochets coming up off the armored vehicle. And so, this resupply mission suddenly became a reinforcement mission and immediately after that became a medical evacuation mission as some of the Marines from Bravo Company involved in that firefight were injured. They were medically evacuated. The resupply mission went out again and did link up with Charlie Company. But it is very unpredictable.

We've been going building by building with Charlie Company on the streets of Falluja. Just after we left them today, they were attacked again. A small number of Charlie Company received some minor light injuries. That was after the commander earlier in the day said we've been free of injuries over the last few days. He knew that the risk was still there. His men know that the risks are still there. They moved with a great deal of caution on the streets. But I think that unpredictability, the assessment that the city is more or less completely taken is an accurate assessment that the troops that went into the city have now achieved their primary objectives. Nevertheless, there are still numbers of insurgents and one Marine commander told me the problem is they know the ground in the city. We don't know where they are. They can be regrouping to come and find us and until we root them all out, until they're all located, they pose a very serious and very significant threat -- Carol.

LIN: Nic, how are they going to ever know if they're going to root them all out? I mean theoretically, this fighting could go on as this sort of low-level ground warfare indefinitely.

ROBERTSON: There is a potential for that. The battalion commander said wherever my Marines find the insurgents, they engage them, they use better tactics, better weapons and they either arrest them, detain them or they kill them. But one Marine also said to me, one of the problems that he thought they may face -- the Marines may face in the next few days is when civilians begin coming back to Falluja. At the moment, though you don't see anybody on the street at all apart from Marines. There are no Iraqi civilians out on the streets. But a humanitarian mission went into Falluja today. The Marines are expecting the possibility that civilians could follow. What they're afraid is that the insurgents could then mix in with the civilians, making their job one step harder again. The difficulty is is with the number of Marines that there are to secure all the buildings that there are and secure the areas, they can clear each building, building by building. But who is the follow-on? Who remains in control of those buildings after they've been through and cleared them? And they know that this is a problem, but the commanders say they're successfully dealing with it -- Carol.

LIN: All right, thanks very much, Nic Robertson who's embedded with the U.S. Marines. Nic is going to have more on the coalition strategy and the fight for Falluja coming up on "THE CAPTIAL GANG" immediately following CNN LIVE SATURDAY right at the top of the next hour. Nic coming to us as often as he can given the circumstances since he is embedded right in the fire zone.

Now, other problems on the ground as well in Falluja. Humanitarian groups are extremely worried. They are urging the international community to help them deliver aid to civilians in that city. An Iraqi Red Crescent Society truck carrying food and medicine is heading to Falluja right now. And a spokeswoman says conditions in the city are catastrophic.

So what is next in this battle for Falluja? Well, I'm going to be speaking with a CNN military analyst about pursuing the remaining insurgents and actually securing the city and then trying to figure out what the military does with the city after that. He's coming up in just a few minutes.

But right now we want to move on to a health scare for the vice president. Vice President Dick Cheney, they sent him to the hospital for part of the day today and we've been keeping an eye on this situation. CNN's Elaine Quijano is at the White House with more on this.

Elaine, did they find out what was wrong with the vice president?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They did, and actually, what they're saying now is that it is not cardiac related as far as they can tell.

Good evening to you, Carol.

The White House says that Vice President Dick Cheney is back at his residence after undergoing tests at a nearby hospital. Now, earlier today he had complained of a cough and also shortness of breath. And doctors, given the vice president's history of heart trouble, did not want to take any chances.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (voice-over): Vice President Dick Cheney smiled and waved to reporters as he walked out of George Washington University Hospital Saturday. Just beyond camera range, Cheney said he felt fine. His wife Lynne was asked how she felt and briefly replied...

LYNEE CHANEY, WIFE: We're great, thank you.

QUIJANO: About five hours before, the vice president told an adviser he felt shortness of breath and on the advice of his cardiologist headed to the hospital for tests. Aides say Mr. Cheney had been suffering from a cold after returning from an annual hunting trip in South Dakota. A statement from Cheney's doctor Jonathan Reiner and released by the White House said, "Tests ruled out any cardiac cause of the vice president's symptoms. Tests also ruled out pneumonia and other pulmonary causes. The vice president likely has a viral, upper respiratory infection."

Mr. Cheney who suffered the first of four hearts at age 37 has had quadruple bypass surgery and a stent to open a blocked artery, which doctors later had to reopen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now as for the president, he learned, we are told, of the vice president's situation from Andy Card, the White House chief of staff. We were told the president was notified about this by early afternoon -- Carol.

LIN: Elaine, still an upper respiratory infection, that could lead to pneumonia, other complications, still pressure on his heart. So is the vice president going to be working and if so, with any restrictions?

QUIJANO: We haven't heard anything to that effect but obviously, the vice president was out on the campaign trail quite vigorously campaigning in the weeks and months leading up to the election. So, certainly, the idea for him to get some rest, I'm sure is part of what the doctor is prescribing. But we don't have any official word on whether or not his work schedule might be curtailed at this particular point -- Carol.

LIN: All right. But back home and I'm sure getting a lot of rest. Thanks very much, Elaine. I know you're going to be watching this story very carefully.

Also, please be sure to catch the vice president's wife, Lynne Chaney, on CNN's "LATE EDITION." That is tomorrow at noon Eastern. I'm sure the family wants to put to rest any rumors.

All right, in the meantime, we're going to go back to the Middle East. A day after Arafat's burial, Palestinians still stream past his tomb to pay their last respects. While what's left of their government sets up the date for elections. One candidate is actually in an Israeli prison.

Plus, he's guilty. That was how some people reacted to the Scott Peterson verdict.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to say hi to my family, grandmother, uncles, brothers, and sisters back in Florida. I miss you. I love you. Happy Holidays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Haunting words. He taped this message to his family from Iraq and just days later tragedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, the push through Falluja may be in its final phase, but it is not over yet by any means. So joining me now is CNN military analyst retired Major General Terry Murray to talk about the status of the battle.

MAJ. GEN. TERRY MURRAY, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET): Good evening, Carol.

LIN: Good evening, General. Give me an idea of when we hear that it's almost secure, what does that really mean? Is that a little like almost pregnant? I mean how decent a situation are the troops in right now?

MURRAY: I think you have to take it with a grain of salt, Carol, because they've moved -- coalition forces that is, have moved through the city very quickly, attacking key objectives as they went. Allowing that, they've got the insurgents bottled up, we think, in the southern part of Falluja. However, we also know that the balance of the coalition forces on the Iraqi side are doing a very careful house- to-house search from north to south, while the American forces, it appears, the Marines and the Army forces, have, in fact, contained the insurgents in an area in the southern part of the city. And as you also know, there is a blocking force and a circumference around the entire city, so in effect what you have is a north to south attack and a blocking position in the south. And we've got the insurgents, at least most of them, between those two forces.

LIN: But how do you measure success in this battle when there's not going to be an official surrender? You're facing an enemy that is not in uniform. So what happens next?

MURRAY: I think what the coalition forces will try to do is to eradicate the balance of the insurgents that they can actually fix in place. And we're guessing now that maybe up to 1,000 insurgents have been killed, potentially several hundred more in the southern part of the city. And who knows. One of the reasons for this house-to-house search that is being done concurrent with the battle in the south is to ensure that the guerrillas did not go underground as we went through the city. So it's going to be a painstaking effort over the next several days if not a few weeks, I believe, for them to determine that they have rooted out all of the insurgents inside of Falluja. LIN: Well, humanitarian groups -- two questions on the humanitarian front because humanitarian groups are saying that there are civilian casualties, people going untreated. So really there are two questions here, one, there are humanitarian groups who are now heading into Falluja. How is that going to complicate the mission of U.S. forces who are trying to wrap up this battle?

MURRAY: On the one hand, it's a good thing that there are organizations moving into Falluja to begin to provide some support to those civilians that are left behind. What we believe based on all of the reporting that we've heard to date is that there are very, very few civilians in the city. However, when the civilians begin to come back into the city, they will greatly complicate everything that military forces are trying to do and, in fact, we know, since this is a very, very strong Sunni population, that they will probably be guerrillas who will come back with them, and we expect that the Sunnis...

LIN: OK, you make a good point because if the humanitarian workers are saying that there are civilians, you know, a significant number enough that they're willing to risk their lives to go and help these people and then you've got the U.S. military giving a body count, 600 to 1,000 insurgents killed. How do they know that the people -- how do they do that body count? How do they know that those who are killed are insurgents when they do that count?

MURRAY: There is some guesswork involved in that, for certain. The reality is, when the civilians were evacuated from the city, the assumption going in was that, as you targeted specific sectors of the city, if, in fact, you had people shooting at you, there was a good probability that those were, in fact, insurgents or terrorists or foreign fighters.

Is it possible that there have been some civilians who have been injured during the course of this operation? I think that is probably the case. Allowing that, I believe also that the senior coalition leaders have been in and around the city quite expensively and to date, we've had no reports from them that the civilians have been in the line of fire.

LIN: All right, Major General Terry Murray, thank you very much.

We're going to have much more on this story and questions around those battle strategies and how you tell an insurgent from a civilian or whatnot, how the military is coming up with these numbers in our prime-time show at 10:00.

But still in this hour, faith and fear. Their faith demands that they make charitable donations, but now many American Muslims fear the possible repercussions. I'm going to talk about that.

And later, he was dismissed as a juror in the Scott Peterson case. So what does he think of the verdict? He is actually shocked. I'm going to be talk with Justin Falconer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LIN: Palestinians continue to arrive at Yasser Arafat's burial site to pay their final respects to the late Palestinian leader. Arafat was buried yesterday at his West Bank compound in Ramallah. Well, today, Palestinian officials joined crowds of mourners at Arafat's tomb and Michael Holmes has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A dignified and somber start to the day after Yasser Arafat's burial. Palestinian officials, including the new No. 1 man at the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas, praying at dawn near the tomb of the former leader. The prayers mark the start of Eid al-Fitr, the feast that marks the beginning of the end of the month long observance of Ramadan. A stark contrast to the chaos of Arafat's burial Friday. A compound that was meant to be off limits to the public, the scene of an emotional melee as the former president was brought back to Ramallah to be interred.

Saturday, visitors, ordinary Palestinians, visiting the tomb throughout the day. Eid is also a time to remember the dead.

"I came here today to show my children that we have a leader," this man says, "one who sacrificed his life for our cause." Elections in two months, concerns about who is next, the question, what will happen now, all put aside this day for remembrance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yasser Arafat, I don't think of anyone but Yasser Arafat because he was a great man.

HOLMES: Despite his failures and there were many, Arafat was always forgiven by his people. Even his closest aides say he was, in many ways, one of a kind.

NABIL SHA'ATH, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It's going to be very difficult to replace Yasser Arafat. Charismatic leaders like this are not found every now and then. They are really difficult to come by, and they are unique in their own. And so we're not really positing all our efforts on finding a leader that replicates Yasser Arafat and that's why we divided the responsibilities of Yasser Arafat.

HOLMES: Yasser Arafat's resting place, say Palestinians, won't be the final one. Their dream of an independent state with East Jerusalem is its capital is still alive, a timetable distant at this point and far from certain but alive.

(on camera): But until then, this place, the scene of Yasser Arafat's virtual incarceration for the last three years, is, say Palestinians, a fitting symbol of resistance.

Michael Holmes, CNN, Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, Secretary of State Colin Powell says he hopes to meet with Palestinian leaders to talk about ways to bring peace to the Middle East. But he didn't give a date for that meeting only saying in the very near future. Now, the Palestinian foreign minister says the talks will take place, though in the Middle East.

Palestinian parliamentary speaker Rawhi Fattuh has been sworn in as Arafat's temporary replacement. Now, as far as a permanent successor, Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei says elections will come before January 9. To give us an idea of what these changes may mean for peace in the region or even if we can get to that point, Philip Willcox is joining me right now. He's president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace. He's also the former U.S. Council General in Jerusalem.

It's good to have you, Mr. Ambassador.

PHILIP WILCOX, FOUNDATIONFOR MIDDLE EAST PEACE: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: Before we talk about this alleged election date that's been bandied about by the Palestinians, let me ask you about President Bush's news conference yesterday. He was very insistent and in fact, the only thing he was specific about in terms of the Middle East peace process was that the United States was insisting on a Democratic -- a fair and Democratic election by the Palestinians. Wouldn't it then be fair for the president to equally ask of Israel that they freeze settlement development in the West Bank, that they start negotiations about the path of this security fence, that they also ask specifically that the military back off so that the Palestinians can have elections in January?

WILCOX: I agree with you, Carol. There can't be Democratic reform unless there's a parallel process of political negotiations leading to Israel's withdrawal from the occupied territories, evacuation of settlements and the creation of a Palestinian state. The two have to go together. I am encouraged; however, that the president promised that he's going to re-engage.

LIN: He's going to re-engage, but it's -- right now it's conditional because the only thing he would commit to is that he wants to see free and fair elections. He's not saying specifically what the United States would do to make sure that would happen. In other words, everybody that I have spoken to on this issue says President Bush needs to personally pick up the phone, call Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and say, "You need to pull back your tanks, you need to create an environment so that these Palestinians can have a credible election." That hasn't happened. And furthermore, the president, when asked if he would name a special envoy to the Middle East, he hedged. So why not take those specific steps and take them now?

WILCOX: I think the president is still heavily preoccupied with Iraq, but I think that an aggressive engagement in Israeli/Palestinian diplomacy by the United States would help us in Iraq. I think he has to do exactly what you've suggested. He has to lean on the new Palestinian leadership to halt the violence, but that has to be coupled with similar forceful persuasion of Prime Minister Sharon to freeze settlements, pull back his forces and resume political talks. LIN: And if he does not do that, say, in the next 60 days, which is the time table the Palestinians have for free elections, what happens?

WILCOX: Well, the elections ought to be the immediate focus and that's going to require cooperation from the government of Israel, too. Its forces, who are occupying parts of the West Bank, will have to help facilitate the elections. Otherwise, they simply can't take place. There also has to be arrangements for east Jerusalem by Arabs to vote in those elections. And that could be a sticking point.

LIN: It could be a sticking point because just a month ago -- I think it was a month or two ago, the Israelis raided several election offices in east Jerusalem so that may not be a good indication of their intent. We'll see what happens. In the meantime, on the Palestinian side, do you think Islamic jihad and Hamas are going to field candidates in this election?

WILCOX: I don't think they've made that decision yet. My own view is that there is a pragmatic moderate element in the Islamist community. It's important that the secular Palestinians negotiate with them to split the moderates from the radicals and bring the moderates into the political process. I think that efforts toward unity, secular, religious unity is essential for stability and political progress.

LIN: And moderate is not always popular. The name that is now surfacing is Marwan Barghuouti (ph). You know him. He's one of the leaders in Arafat's Fattah Movement. He is one of the instigators of the current anti-Fattah and he is sitting with, I don't know how many life sentences in an Israeli prison right now. The consensus though is that he is the most popular and the most likely to unify the different factions of the Palestinian movement. Do you think there may be a deal to release him from prison and do you think he would be a good candidate?

WILCOX: Well, I wouldn't want to predict who the Palestinian candidate should be, but Marwan Barghouti (ph) has been a militant, but he's also a pragmatist and a moderate. He's been a consistent supporter of peace with Israel and a two-state solution. He's the kind of person that ought to be encouraged to get back into Palestinian politics. I think he would be a good interlocketer with the Israelis.

LIN: Wouldn't that be interesting? Although the Israeli foreign minister has so far said he's staying in prison as far as the Israelis know. But it is the Middle East, anything can happen, Mr. Ambassador. Thanks for joining us.

WILCOX: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: All right. We've got some other news. Starting up on the half hour here, welcome back, in case you're just joining us. Here's a quick look at what's happening.

Vice President Dick Cheney says he's feeling fine. He spent part of the day at a Washington hospital for tests after experiencing shortness of breath. Aides say initial results showed nothing abnormal. Dick Cheney has a history of heart problems, as you know.

And Iraq's interim prime minister says he won't be deterred by the kidnapping of his relatives. Iyad Allawi made the remarks today while visiting Nasiriyah. The group claiming responsibility for the capture is threatening to behead the hostages unless all Iraqi prisoners are released and the assault on Fallujah ends.

And U.S. troops wounded in the assault on Falluja have begun arriving at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. The troops are being taken to a nearby U.S. military hospital for treatment. The Pentagon says at least 22 U.S. troops have been killed and 170 wounded in Falluja.

Now, he was dismissed from the jury just weeks into the trial. But this former juror did hear the evidence against Scott Peterson. So is he surprised by the verdict, and what can he tell us about the other jurors? I'm going to talk to him.

Plus, the wounds that never heal. A face behind the latest fatalities in Falluja and a family left to grieve.

And later, afraid to give. They want to donate to charity, but several Muslim-Americans now say they are scared.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. We want to move on to another big story this week, the Scott Peterson verdict. One day after a jury found him guilty of killing his wife Laci and their unborn son, the verdict is still reverberating and beyond. CNN's David Mattingly is outside the courtroom in Redwood City.

David, you got a chance to talk to folks. What are people telling you?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, Laci Peterson was first reported missing almost two years ago and yesterday's verdict revealed to us once again how much emotion has built up behind this case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A crowd of hundreds outside the San Mateo County Courthouse greeted the guilty verdict with cheers. The reaction was the same in Scott and Laci Peterson's hometown of Modesto.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a rotten person. I mean they proved how bad a person that man is.

MATTINGLY: At the house where prosecutors say Peterson killed his pregnant wife before dumping her body in San Francisco Bay, people from all over the country continued to send flowers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you look at the emotion of this case, you could convict him five times over and I think that's what happened here.

MATTINGLY: Justin Falconer was kicked off the jury in June after making a brief comment to Laci Peterson's brother. Juror Frances Gorman was dismissed last Tuesday after conducting outside research during deliberations. In spite of a gag order, she told San Francisco affiliate, KTVU, she agreed with the verdict.

FRANCES GORMAN, FORMER PETERSON JUROR: My understanding from the judge is that I am gagged until the jurors are released, which I believe is after the final penalty phase and after they are released. So that's about all I can say. I can tell you if I was the 13th juror, I'd be in there saying, go get him.

MATTINGLY: Anti-Peterson sentiments were so strong after the verdict; the Peterson family was taunted by people in the crowd as they exited the courthouse. Now facing a possible death sentence, Peterson remains in his cell awaiting the legal fight for his life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: It's a fight that has one of only two outcomes. Either Scott Peterson will go to California's death row or he will spend the rest of his life behind bars without parole, Carol.

LIN: David, the deliberations over the final sentencing, I mean, how long is that going to take, do you think?

MATTINGLY: It -- we're supposed to have a decision shortly after Thanksgiving. This is only going to take a couple of days of arguments and the judge feels like this is going to move rather quickly not at all as slow as the trial itself did go.

LIN: All right, thanks very much. David Mattingly reporting live in Redwood City.

Well, Justin Falconer, you saw him in Jason's piece. He can offer a unique, behind-the-scenes look at the Peterson case. He served on the jury until he was dismissed just a few weeks into the trial.

Good to have you, Justin, because I understand that you're actually shocked by the verdict. Why so?

JUSTIN FALCONER, FORMER PETERSON JUROR: You know, I am. You know, I can't wait for the other jurors to come out and talk about what it was that pushed them over the top because you know I -- if you look at the evidence and you know there's been a lot of people who have said the same thing -- and the evidence is very circumstantial, very -- you know -- I mean, it's not even -- it's very skeptical. I mean you just -- there's no when, where, why, how? The most that they can tell you is where her body, you know, washed up and how it -- and tried to attach it to him, but... LIN: But look at it this way. I mean all the legal analysis, and I see where you're going with this because, you know, there's no definitive crime scene necessarily, no weapon, no time necessarily of death. But at the same time, it seemed to boil down to the fact that nobody else seemed to have a motive to kill Laci Peterson and that her body was found right where Scott Peterson said that he was fishing on Christmas Eve. Why didn't that add up to you and most murder cases are circumstantial?

FALCONER: Well, you know, it was just the evidence surrounding it too. You know the prosecution put on a case that was really, you know, sketchy. They tried to prove a motive, which ended up getting disproven. All of their witnesses ended up being better defense witnesses. Their police officers lied on the stand. I mean it's just -- you know all of this happened and so while you're sitting here watching this, you're going well, how strong is this case. Even when they said that she washed up, they still could never -- you know attach her to the boat. They said the dog found her scent on the docks but never found her scene in the boat.

LIN: All right. So let me ask you about the dynamics of this week because you know all the characters in the courtroom, right? All right. So you know Fran Gorman. You know Gregory Jackson, who were both dismissed this week, replaced by, as we've been describing, a young mother with nine tattoos and four kids and a firefighter who hardly took any notes and looked bored during the trial. Give me an idea of how the characters -- who the characters are and how it played out.

FALCONER: Well, I mean -- you know I knew for a fact when 6 took over that there was going to be a quick verdict. He hasn't wanted to be there since day one. He didn't want to be there at all. So he's wanted this to get over as fast as possible. But you know I'm really surprised at the way the verdict came out. And then I'm surprised about the reports coming out that the reasons Juror No. 5, the original foreman, was dismissed. It's really surprising and I hate to think that these people...

LIN: What are the reports you are talking about?

FALCONER: Well, there was a report that he was dismissed because he wanted to deliberate the facts and the other jurors did not. And I mean it kind of supports that statement, if you think that, you know, there was evidence coming in because he was calling it in, but in the last five hours or four hours that they were deliberating, they never asked for one piece of evidence. They knew exactly what they wanted the minute they walked into that room.

LIN: Really? So when do you think -- did it turn? I mean, you know, when there was a new jury then that was meeting on Friday, what do you think it turned on? Was it the photos inside the house? The blouse that the jurors were allowed to finger that Laci was last saw alive in? What do you think it turned on?

FALCONER: You know, I don't know. I think that, you know, from what I understand, there's a possibility -- and I'm saying it's just a possibility -- it's rumors that I think need to be investigated. We're not going to know until Juror No. 5 comes out and speaks. But I mean there's rumors that, you know, they were more worried about the public, you know, reaction to the verdict than, you know, actually figuring out this case. And that's one of the rumors that's coming out. And that's frightening, if you think about it because -- I mean, I can understand where they would be a little bit, you know apprehensive.

LIN: Yes, a high-profile case. Well, Justin, we're not going to know until we do get a chance to talk to them, which may not be after some time after Thanksgiving, but boy, what a case to be involved in.

FALCONER: It'll be interesting.

LIN: It sure will. Justin Falconer, it's not the last we've heard of this case, clearly. Thank you.

FALCONER: Thank you.

LIN: Well still ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, the price of freedom. A new exhibit documents the history of war in America and we've got your first look.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE MARTINEZ, SISTER OF OSCAR MARTINEZ: No one should be dying over there because of President Bush. He made everybody come over there and fight and because of him, my brother died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The wounds of war. This soldier taped a holiday greeting from Iraq and now tragedy strikes for a Florida family and much more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, these are indeed tense times for families with loved ones on the front lines in Iraq. More than 1,100 U.S. troops have died since the war began. And we hear the stories of two of them from reporters Gary Nelson (ph) of WFOR in Miami and Don Levitton (ph) of WJXT in Jacksonville.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martha Mendez clutches a videotape this day. "I'm so sad that I'll never see him again," she says, speaking of the young man on the tape. Her grandson, Oscar Martinez, in a holiday greeting filmed in Iraq just days before he was killed in a mortar attack.

O. MARTINEZ: I want to say hi to my family, grandmother, uncle, brothers and sisters, friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video came to CBS 4, a holiday handout from the military. We delivered it to the Marine's family in North Lauderdale.

"He didn't need to lose his life," she says of the grandson she raised as a son, a 19-year-old killed just a few months after joining up. "I didn't want him to go," she says, "but I respected his choice." His little brother nodded and wept. His little sister cried, too.

M. MARTINEZ: I just can't believe that my brother died and I feel so angry about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Angry at the president who placed a wreath this Veterans Day.

M. MARTINEZ: No one should be dying over there because of Bush. He made everybody come over there and fight and because of him, my brother died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martha Mendez was not bitter today only grieving as she held the videotape. "This Christmas will be painful, sad," she says. "The children will have no Christmas."

O. MARTINEZ: I want to say hi to my family, grandmother, uncles, brothers and sisters, friends, back in Florida. I miss you. I love you. Happy Holidays.

CAROLYN WOODS, MOTHER OF JULIAN WOODS: My baby's gone. My baby's gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emotions overcome Carolyn Woods, the mother of Julian Woods, dealing with the tragic lost of her youngest child. The difficult news coming to her West Side home.

C. WOODS: When the doorbell rang this morning and I peeked out the door and when I seen those two guys standing there in their white uniform, I just lost it because I didn't want to hear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julian, just 22, was killed Wednesday during the U.S. assault on Falluja. A Navy Corpsman, he was on the Iraqi battlefield with the Marines, other men and women he was charged with saving.

ALEXIS WOODS, SISTER OF JULIAN WOODS: I'm not mad. I'm not angry. I'm at peace with myself because my brother, he died for a cause.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His younger sister, Alexis, shares her love for her brother. The two actually graduated together from Ed Wyth High before he joined the service in 2000.

A. WOODS: We're not twins, but he was my other half. And when he died, that's a part of me that's gone.

O.J. WOODS, BROTHER OF JULIAN WOODS: I think he's a hero. He is. He's my hero. He went out -- at least he went for a good reason.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His brother, O.J., several years older, also a Navy sailor who was stationed with Julian in Virginia. O.J. WOODS: I got a lot of good memories. That's all I got now is good memories of my brother. I miss him a lot.

C. WOODS: On the days he felt he couldn't go on, you can do it, son. I told him, you are my hero. And he wrote me back and said, "No, mom, you are my hero. I get my strength from you."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Wow! The U.S. death toll in Iraq now stands at 1,174.

And still to come tonight, raising money for a good cause. Why it's becoming harder for Muslim charities to do?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Muslims all over the world are celebrating the beginning of Eid al-Fitr, a three-day holiday that ends the holy fasting month of Ramadan. Today, worshippers packed mosques in Mecca for morning prayers. And religious services are followed by festivals and family get-togethers. And during Ramadan, Muslims are expected to give money to the poor, but many Muslim-Americans are now nervous about donating to Islamic charities fearing they're going to be accused of having ties to terror groups. CNN's Alina Cho investigated.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): During the holy month of Ramadan, Muslims pray, fast and give money to the poor.

AMANEY JAMAL, MUSLIM EXPERT: One of the major pillars of Islam is to give to charity and especially during this holy month of Ramadan.

CHO: The Muslim faithful typically donate 2.5 percent of their wealth every year. But post-September 11th, the FBI has cracked down on Islamic charities suspected of having terrorist ties. And that's left many Muslims too scared to donate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a lot of the community does feel very alienated now.

CHO: Adam Carroll works for the Islamic Circle of North America. The relief arm of that group collects food for the needy, helps families of detainees and orphans overseas, causes Muslims care deeply about. But since the crackdowns, donations have dropped 50 percent.

MUHAMMAD RAHMAN, EXEX. DIRECTOR, ICNA RELIEF: If we had 2,000 or 3,000 orphans, now we've got 2,000 orphans.

CHO: Muslim experts say when it comes to the issue of supporting orphans; the children can sometimes be linked to what their parents may have done.

JAMAL: Giving money to these orphans is seen as supporting terrorism because you're basically telling a would-be -- for example, a would-be suicide bomber, don't worry if you kill yourself, your family or your children will be taken care of.

CHO: Some Muslims say they are so fearful about leaving a money trail that charities say when they do give they give smaller amounts in cash. Mohamed Younes is an elder in Paterson, New Jersey's Muslim community.

MOHAMED YOUNES, AMERICAN MULSIM UNION: The people have been more careful and they've been more, you know, aware of this -- not just to donate, you know, now we're asking where did the donation go and why -- how are you going to spend it.

CHO: The FBI says despite the crackdown, law-abiding Muslims have nothing to fear and should give as they please.

JAMAL: It's a feeling that I'm trying to be a good citizen and I'm trying to be a good human being, and yet, I'm also being thought of as a terrorist or supporting terrorism.

CHO: Making charity, giving to others, a mixed blessing for Muslim-Americans during this holy month of Ramadan.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Much coming up in the world of politics, too. Here's Al Hunt to tell us what's ahead on "THE CAPITAL GANG."

Good evening, Al.

AL HUNT, CO-HOST, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Good evening, Carol. Senator-elect John Thune, who defeated Democratic leader Tom Daschle in South Dakota, joins the gang. We'll look at the Bush Administration's response to the death of Yasser Arafat, the cabinet shakeup in Washington and much more all next on CNN.

LIN: Well, a new exhibit at the Smithsonian Museum in Washington takes visitors on a fascinating and emotional journey through some of the most painful moments in U.S. history. It is a detailed look at American wars from the Colonial Era to the current campaign in Iraq. And some members of the military attended this week's dedication ceremony. Here's their perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: From the Revolutionary War to the global war on terrorism, America's sons and daughters have indeed paid the very high price of freedom. We must remember that war is never glorious, that it's a terrible thing and brutal and tragic. The people whose stories are told in this exhibit and the countless American graves around the world serve as reminders of the willingness to bear this burden of defending liberty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are 150,000 Americans in Vietnam.

MAJ. JIM NEWMAN, VIETNAM VETERAN: This aircraft means a lot being in here not just because it was the aircraft I got shot up in Vietnam, but because it is the aircraft we used in Vietnam. It means a lot to all the veterans. And they'll be able to talk about experiences there that they never were able to before.

SGT. ORLANDO GILL, WOUNDED IN IRAQ: It shows history maybe not at its best, but at its worst, like, the things we have to do to be here now. It showed just the bad side of what we had to do to be free.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: It's a high price.

That's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next, "THE CAPITAL GANG" and then 8:00 Eastern on "CNN PRESENTS: KINGDOM ON THE BRINK," then at 9:00, "LARRY KING." Tonight, you're going to see the 1995 interview with the late Yasser Arafat, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and Jordan's King Hussein.

And I'm going to be back at 10:00 Eastern for a preview of a Jacqueline Kennedy exhibit that will take you back to Camelot. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com