Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Nuclear Concerns on Two Fronts Today; Grand Opening of Clinton Library
Aired November 18, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Nuclear concerns on two fronts today. Russia promising a bold new addition to its arsenal, while Colin Powell says he has seen evidence suggesting Iran is getting closer to building a nuclear missile.
From Arkansas today, the grand opening of the Clinton Library. Four U.S. presidents will attend.
And watching the nation's airline attendants. Would a strike force millions to make new holiday travel plans this year?
And hanging on for dear life in Texas. And the floods just keep coming, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING, with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.
Some of the stories that we're following on this AMERICAN MORNING, a big day for the Clintons as a presidential library opens in Arkansas. The library already sparking controversy on how it deals with the Clinton scandals. This morning we talked to Senator Hillary Clinton about that, also the future for the Democrats and her place in it as well.
HEMMER: Also this morning, is the war in Iraq pushing the U.S. military closer to a breaking point? A big issue during the campaign of this past year. And now top U.S. commanders talking about the situation with Congress. Barbara Starr follows that from the Pentagon. She'll tell us what is being said and being done about it. So that's topic A as well today.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty's, the man has more vacation. I mean, What does he get, like 20 weeks or something?
HEMMER: There you go again.
O'BRIEN: He's not here.
Toure, however, is here with his "Toure Experience." He'll be reading the e-mails this morning. Before we get to anything else, though, let's first check the stories that are now in the news.
Carol Costello is at the Time Warner Center across town.
Hello. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, again, Soledad. Thank you.
Now in the news, a deadly blast in Iraq. A car bomb explodes, happened about five hours ago outside of a police station in western Baghdad. Police say at least two people were killed, six others wounded. Iraq security forces have been the target of insurgent attacks in recent months.
There is word President Bush's considering appointing another Democrat to his cabinet. Sources say the president's top political adviser has approached Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson about becoming agricultural secretary. Ann Veneman, who currently holds that post, announced her resignation on Monday. The only Democrat now in the Bush cabinet is transportation secretary Norman Mineta.
National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice is set to undergo minor surgery tomorrow. Rice is having a procedure to block blood flow to fibroid tumors in the uterus. Rice is expected to be back at work on Monday. Earlier this week, Rice was tapped by President Bush to be the next secretary of state.
And new details, the flu vaccine shortage could potentially have been avoided. An FDA report shows the agency knew about unsanitary conditions at a British flu vaccine plant last year. The plant wasn't reinspected until similar problems led to loss of half the U.S. supply of the flu vaccine this year. The acting FDA commissioner says there's no connection between the two.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Carol, see you in over here in about 30 minutes all right. Carol Costello with us this morning.
From overseas again today, Iran today angrily denying charges that it's secretly building nuclear weapons. An exile group charging that Iran is enriching uranium at a hidden site in that country. Yesterday Secretary of State Colin Powell said, I'm quoting now, "I have seen intelligence which would corroborate what this dissident group is saying, and it should be of concern to all parties," end quote. U.S. intelligence indicates that Iran is trying to adapt missiles to carry nuclear weapons.
Let's get the view from the White House on this, this morning with Suzanne Malveaux there.
Good morning.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Of course this is a concern for the Bush administration. They are keeping a close eye on those developments. It was just last month that Iran said it could mass produce missiles that could be launched to Israel or attack U.S. forces in the Middle East. They say, of course, this is for defensive purposes only, if the United States or Israel decided to attack some of their nuclear sites.
There is no evidence, however, that Iran has a nuclear weapon, but of course a lot of the focus has been on Iran's program to enrich uranium to do just that. There are efforts to actually develop that nuclear program. Now Germany, France, as well as Great Britain have all been involved in negotiations with Iran to permanently suspend that program. And it was just last week that Iran, in fact, announced that it would. That because they said of course that next week the International Atomic Energy Agency, they would allow those inspectors inside of the country to prove, in fact, they were not enriching uranium for a nuclear weapons program, but rather for a nuclear fuel program. Now this, of course, all because they're trying to avoid a sanctions by the U.N. Security Council. That is something the Bush administration has been pushing for, to crackdown on Iran. And of course, Bill, just this latest piece of information showing and perhaps suggesting that Iran is not cooperating -- Bill.
HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks for that report there at the White House. More now with Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Iran, in fact, has agreed to back off on uranium enrichment, but international weapons agents say the government has not been completely open to inspections.
Former U.N. and CIA weapons inspector David Kay joins us from Washington this morning.
Hi, David. Good morning. Nice to see you.
DAVID KAY, FMR. U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: We heard from secretary Powell that he believes that not only does Iran have nuclear weapons, but they're all working on arming those missiles with nuclear warheads. How likely do you think is a scenario that he is predicting there?
KAY: Well, Soledad, we have the makings, really, of a perfect storm. U.S. intelligence capability to warn, and particularly secretary of state's capability to warn about weapons program has been seriously impeded by, in fact, the false warnings given about Iraq. This intelligence seems to be based on dissident groups. Well, in the case of Iraq, dissident groups fed us misinformation.
And then finally, the IAEA's own capability in Iran is seriously in question because for 15 years, they missed a clandestine program. So you can say it's likely, but it's going to be very hard to convince the Europeans and others that in fact that is what is happening.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about two elements of that that you mention. The exile group raising this new information, they say, in fact that there's a new nuclear weapons facility that has been hidden from the IAEA. How likely do you think that is?
KAY: Well, based on past performance of the Iranians, in which they hid facilities from the IAEA for really 18 years, it seems quite credible. On the other hand, this dissident group has a checkered record. It's been right about some information. It's been seriously wrong. And I think the Iranians will have no trouble discrediting it coming so soon after a supposed agreement with the Europeans.
O'BRIEN: The dissidents findings contradicts the IAEA report submitted by Mohammed El Baradei that Iran does not have nuclear weapons-related work going on right now. Is this a direct contradiction, or is it just that the IAEA doesn't have access to everything?
KAY: Well, it's not really a direct contradiction. The report is really nuanced, and it speaks of what they observed, and admits that there may be things that they have not observed, and it's going to take a great deal longer. In fact, I think the real imperative now is to empower the IAEA, the only people on the ground in Iran with the capability to do real inspection inspections, and see if the Iranians allow it.
O'BRIEN: As you mentioned, all of this happens in the wake of this pledge between Iran and three European countries. In your mind, does this pledge not have any value whatsoever if in fact, everything else is true?
KAY: Well, it has some value. But how much value it has has already been called into question by the Iranians. The Iranians have said it's temporary, it's to be measured in months, not years. The Europeans have said, oh, no, it's years, if not permanent. We expect Iran to give up its uranium-enrichment capability.
The simply fact of the matter is that the Iranians have shown no indication that they will permanently give up their right to enrich uranium, and as long as they have that, they're on the path to creating a nuclear weapon.
O'BRIEN: David Kay, nice to see you as always, David. Thanks for that insight.
KAY: Sure thing.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come, millions of Americans will be traveling this holiday season, many of them by plane, of course. But could a potential flight attendants strike throw a wrench into those plans? We'll take a look at that.
HEMMER: Also the numbers crunch. Military officials saying just how close the military might be at overextending itself in Iraq. We'll look at the hard numbers that we're getting there.
O'BRIEN: And coming up next, Congress looks into the Vioxx mess. We'll ask one senator whether the FDA should share some blame as well. Those stories all ahead as we continue right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody, 13 minutes past the hour now. The chairman of Merck and the head of the FDA today go before a Senate Finance Committee, answering questions about Vioxx. Should the arthritis drug have been pulled from the market sooner?
Vioxx is linked to an increased risk of heart attack and stroke. And here to talk about today, Iowa Republican, Senator Chuck Grassley, chairman of the Finance Committee.
And, Senator, good morning. Welcome back here.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: Good morning, pal.
HEMMER: Two points of focus here: the FDA or Merck. Can you say at this point what is more in focus? Is it the company or is it the agency that approved this drug in the first place?
GRASSLEY: I think there's enough evidence in both cases that the governmental agency, the Food and Drug Administration that's supposed to guarantee safety of drugs for the consuming public has not been doing its job. It's been discouraging scientists from pursuing the scientific approach to make sure that drugs are safe. They haven't been willing to listen to dissident points of view within their organization, the extent to which maybe a certain drug was not safe.
HEMMER: Hang on one second, Senator. What's the motivation within the FDA to do that and have that attitude?
GRASSLEY: Well, first of all, there's an administrative setup where the Office of Drug Safety is under the Office of New Drugs. And it seems to me that that sort of relationship is not very good if you're going to -- you ought to have an independent office of drug safety, it seems like.
HEMMER: All right.
There's a front page story in the Washington Post that, I think, it may go to your very point. Let me read just -- in the first sentence, "the agency now is focusing" -- the agency being the FDA -- "focusing more in bolstering the pharmaceutical industry than protecting public health." Do you have evidence that would support that story?
GRASSLEY: Well, let's say as an example communiques that come from pharmaceutical agencies to the FDA that says, "Well, if you find something wrong with our drugs, would you give us a heads up so we're able to respond if there's public criticism?" -- things of that nature. That seems to me that the Food and Drug Administration is giving more attention to the profits of the pharmaceutical companies -- or at least a concern of the pharmaceutical companies than they are to their number one client, which is the people of the United States.
Another example would be when one of their scientists goes to Paris to give a paper and he brings up about the dangers of Vioxx, causing heart attacks. Then he comes back and he tells us that he's ambushed by people within the Food and Drug Administration. And in the end, you know, there's a great deal of intimidation. So there's a culture within the Food and Drug Administration that bothers me.
HEMMER: If I could -- just back to this report again in the Washington Post. It indicates in 1996 to 2001, a five-year period, 10 drugs were recalled during that period.
From 2001 to 2004, a three-year period, three drugs were taken off the market. On its face, does that indicate much to you?
GRASSLEY: Well, it indicates to me that there's been a laxity that's demonstrated by a couple instances just this year. Vioxx being withdrawn by Merck. And then the scientist, Dr. Gilbert, being suppressed to some extent.
Remember back in February we had the scientist who was suppressed again within FDA because he had evidence that an anti-depressant was causing suicide among children and he wanted a warning put on the box?
HEMMER: Let me get to one final point here as it relates to Merck specifically. The head of that company was on our show two days ago.
Listen to what he said about the recall and how the company responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY GILMARTIN, MERCK CEO: The first time we had a confirmed risk of Vioxx against placebo was when we got a call from the outside investigator on September 23rd that said that he had seen -- or the Safety Monitoring Board had seen -- a higher risk of cardiovascular events that had developed beginning after 18 months, and they recommended we end the clinical trial.
After we looked at the data, within less than a week we withdrew the drug voluntarily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Based on that response and based on what you know so far, Senator, did the company act quick enough?
GRASSLEY: I don't think so. Because I think he's basing the statement that I just heard on the word "confirmed" evidence. I think if you wait until you get everything confirmed, there's enough reports and different studies, even within the Merck organization, prior to the drug going on the market and even after the drug went on the market that would indicate to me that there were red flags coming up within their own organization, plus the fact that two or three years ago they were thinking about setting up a study that involved 30,000 people because there was some concern about it. And then they dropped that all of a sudden.
Another thing was that there was a period of time in there where they were -- where FDA was considering putting a warning label on and they decided not to go with a warning label. They went with a lesser sort of information to the public. And that took a two-year period of time.
And so that would have been some warning to Merck, as well, it seems like.
HEMMER: We will follow that hearing. It starts today. 20 million have used Vioxx over the years.
Senator Grassley, Republican from Iowa.
Thank you, Senator, for your time today.
GRASSLEY: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: The stars of the Democratic Party are celebrating today in Little Rock, Arkansas at the dedication of Bill Clinton's $165 million presidential library. Former first lady turned senator from New York, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is at the library this morning. She joins us.
Nice to see you, senator. Thanks for being with us.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Thank you, Soledad. It's good to talk to you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you. We got lots to cover, in fact. not only the library, of course, but politics as well. But we'll start with the library this morning. I heard reports that the president himself was involved in the very details about the architecture, things like that. Is that accurate?
CLINTON: Absolutely. This was a real labor of love for Bill, and he started working with the architects about, oh, I guess, six years ago and was involved in every step of the way, giving his ideas about not only how it should be designed, but what it would look like, what the meaning of it would be. And it is just like Bill Clinton. I mean, it's open, it's expansive, it's welcoming, it's spirited, and it is a bridge to the 21st century. That is the whole sense of it.
O'BRIEN: Some people have described it as a shrine as well. Do you think that's a fair description?
CLINTON: Well, I think if you've been to any presidential library, it tells the story of that president's life. I have been to, I guess, all of them, and they are all trying to portray to Americans what that particular president believed, what he did when he was president. But it's more of a historical and really a creative way of having people look at the exhibits, look at the gifts that were given when a president was in office. And I really think that it's smart, because most Americans will never visit the White House, and this presidential library will have an actual replica of the Oval Office when Bill was president. So people, thousands of people, will be able to bring their children and able to see that, or the cabinet room, or one of the limousines that drove the president around. And, I think that's important in our government that we have as much connection with people, and that's one of the reasons why Bill wanted it to be literally a transparent building, because he believes that government and a Democracy like ours should be transparent and open to people.
O'BRIEN: There are some critics, though, who say that the museum itself, the library, minimizes the role your husband had in the impeachment process, in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. What do you make of that criticism?
CLINTON: You know, I think that the library presents a full and accurate picture of the Clinton administration. There were a lot of things that went on during those eight years, a lot of great accomplishments for our country and for the world. So everything is put into context. And people can come and judge for themselves. And in addition to that, you know, Bill will be opening up his records for his library much sooner than the law requires so that scholars and researchers, historians will be able to get in and look at all of the documents and start writing about what happened during the Clinton presidency.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk a moment about politics now. There are reports that Karl Rove has approached the Democratic Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska to be the secretary of agricultural. There are some cynics who would say it's less of an endorsement of the senator than trying to remove another Democrat from the Senate. Where do you stand on that?
CLINTON: Well, I have no, you know, inside information about any of that. The president has been re-elected. He has a right to ask anyone to be in his cabinet. And then of course who ever's asked has a right to decide whether that's what he or she wants to do.
Ben Nelson is a terrific senator from Nebraska. We love having him in the Senate and as part of the Democratic caucus. He's really a funny, wonderful guy with a great sense of humor. And you know, I hope he stays in the Senate, but obviously, that's up to him.
O'BRIEN: Another thing we're talking about in the news today, of course, is the House Republicans changing the rules to essentially inoculate Tom Delay if he is indeed indicted. No, don't laugh before I finish my question here. What do you make of that this morning? We're hearing lots from Capitol Hill about this.
CLINTON: Well, what can I say? It's just so typical. I mean, they're running the House of Representatives like a fiefdom with Tom Delay, you know, in charge of the plantation. I think it's kind of a sad commentary. I don't think it's good for Democracy. I don't think it's good for the Republican Party. But again, I don't have a vote in the Republican caucus in the House; they'll decide what they want to do, but one would hope that they would not be so quick to change the rules when it affects their leader. They certainly wanted to apply the harshest of rules to Democratic leaders for so many years.
I think we need to call a truce to all of this back and forth, and you know, let's have rules that apply to everybody. It's like the idea that some want to change the filibuster, which has been a time- honored tradition in the Senate. You know, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and I think that we have an administration and Republican leadership that, you know, is very powerful. And power should be handled carefully in a democracy.
So, again, I don't have a vote in any of this, but I hope that, you know, more thoughtful minds prevail over what should be done going forward.
O'BRIEN: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton joining us this morning. Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us this morning.
CLINTON: Thank you, Soledad. Come and see the library.
O'BRIEN: You know, if I get a day off, I would love to do that. Thank you.
CLINTON: Great. Thank you.
O'BRIEN: CNN's going to, in fact, have live coverage of the library's dedication ceremony, and our coverage at noon Eastern -- Bill.
HEMMER: Just about 24 minutes past the hour. In a moment, Sears and Kmart struck a big deal. We'll talk about that, at this time yesterday. What will they call the new company? And what does that say about their marketing strategy? Good questions for Andy to answer when he "Minds Your Business," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back everybody. Taking a look now which stocks got a boost from the big Kmart/Sears merger, and is there a chance that one of those famous names could go away?
Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business" this morning. Hello.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
The big story, obviously, yesterday, Soledad, Wall Street gives a big thumbs-up to the deal. As you might expect, Sears stock up sharply yesterday. They were, after all, acquired by Kmart when it comes right down to it, but also Kmart up as well, and then some other companies that are connected to these two companies. You can see Martha Stewart, obviously distributed in Kmart, will be distributed in the Sears stores. Whirlpool, a big Sears company, now they're going expand into Kmart. Danhurr (ph), which makes Craftsman tools, also up.
Now as far as this name change goes, you know, they are going to keep the two names at least initially, Soledad. But a lot of speculation that the Kmart name will ultimately disappear, story in "The Wall Street Journal" this morning. Sears has a better name. Sales are better at Sears.
And another interesting sidenote from yesterday as well, two U.S. senators on Capitol Hill calling for the government to look into the merger in terms of antitrust violations. Mike DeWine from Ohio, and also Wisconsin Senator Herb Kohl. Kind of interesting there, because his family founded Kohl's, that store. He was president of that company. The family later sold that business. But interesting, he has some retailing connections there.
O'BRIEN: Might be a little more to it than just concerns about antitrust.
SERWER: Interesting.
O'BRIEN: And we will see. Andy Serwer, thanks -- Bill.
SERWER: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, you heard what ABC had to say, what the NFL had to say about Monday night's steamy skit. Now the FCC chairman weighs in on that issue. Also, planning to fly this holiday season?
If so, do you need to be worried about a potential strike by the flight attendants. We'll talk about that, let you know what you need to know in a moment here, as AMERICAN MORNING continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 18, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Nuclear concerns on two fronts today. Russia promising a bold new addition to its arsenal, while Colin Powell says he has seen evidence suggesting Iran is getting closer to building a nuclear missile.
From Arkansas today, the grand opening of the Clinton Library. Four U.S. presidents will attend.
And watching the nation's airline attendants. Would a strike force millions to make new holiday travel plans this year?
And hanging on for dear life in Texas. And the floods just keep coming, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING, with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.
Some of the stories that we're following on this AMERICAN MORNING, a big day for the Clintons as a presidential library opens in Arkansas. The library already sparking controversy on how it deals with the Clinton scandals. This morning we talked to Senator Hillary Clinton about that, also the future for the Democrats and her place in it as well.
HEMMER: Also this morning, is the war in Iraq pushing the U.S. military closer to a breaking point? A big issue during the campaign of this past year. And now top U.S. commanders talking about the situation with Congress. Barbara Starr follows that from the Pentagon. She'll tell us what is being said and being done about it. So that's topic A as well today.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty's, the man has more vacation. I mean, What does he get, like 20 weeks or something?
HEMMER: There you go again.
O'BRIEN: He's not here.
Toure, however, is here with his "Toure Experience." He'll be reading the e-mails this morning. Before we get to anything else, though, let's first check the stories that are now in the news.
Carol Costello is at the Time Warner Center across town.
Hello. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, again, Soledad. Thank you.
Now in the news, a deadly blast in Iraq. A car bomb explodes, happened about five hours ago outside of a police station in western Baghdad. Police say at least two people were killed, six others wounded. Iraq security forces have been the target of insurgent attacks in recent months.
There is word President Bush's considering appointing another Democrat to his cabinet. Sources say the president's top political adviser has approached Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson about becoming agricultural secretary. Ann Veneman, who currently holds that post, announced her resignation on Monday. The only Democrat now in the Bush cabinet is transportation secretary Norman Mineta.
National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice is set to undergo minor surgery tomorrow. Rice is having a procedure to block blood flow to fibroid tumors in the uterus. Rice is expected to be back at work on Monday. Earlier this week, Rice was tapped by President Bush to be the next secretary of state.
And new details, the flu vaccine shortage could potentially have been avoided. An FDA report shows the agency knew about unsanitary conditions at a British flu vaccine plant last year. The plant wasn't reinspected until similar problems led to loss of half the U.S. supply of the flu vaccine this year. The acting FDA commissioner says there's no connection between the two.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Carol, see you in over here in about 30 minutes all right. Carol Costello with us this morning.
From overseas again today, Iran today angrily denying charges that it's secretly building nuclear weapons. An exile group charging that Iran is enriching uranium at a hidden site in that country. Yesterday Secretary of State Colin Powell said, I'm quoting now, "I have seen intelligence which would corroborate what this dissident group is saying, and it should be of concern to all parties," end quote. U.S. intelligence indicates that Iran is trying to adapt missiles to carry nuclear weapons.
Let's get the view from the White House on this, this morning with Suzanne Malveaux there.
Good morning.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Of course this is a concern for the Bush administration. They are keeping a close eye on those developments. It was just last month that Iran said it could mass produce missiles that could be launched to Israel or attack U.S. forces in the Middle East. They say, of course, this is for defensive purposes only, if the United States or Israel decided to attack some of their nuclear sites.
There is no evidence, however, that Iran has a nuclear weapon, but of course a lot of the focus has been on Iran's program to enrich uranium to do just that. There are efforts to actually develop that nuclear program. Now Germany, France, as well as Great Britain have all been involved in negotiations with Iran to permanently suspend that program. And it was just last week that Iran, in fact, announced that it would. That because they said of course that next week the International Atomic Energy Agency, they would allow those inspectors inside of the country to prove, in fact, they were not enriching uranium for a nuclear weapons program, but rather for a nuclear fuel program. Now this, of course, all because they're trying to avoid a sanctions by the U.N. Security Council. That is something the Bush administration has been pushing for, to crackdown on Iran. And of course, Bill, just this latest piece of information showing and perhaps suggesting that Iran is not cooperating -- Bill.
HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks for that report there at the White House. More now with Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Iran, in fact, has agreed to back off on uranium enrichment, but international weapons agents say the government has not been completely open to inspections.
Former U.N. and CIA weapons inspector David Kay joins us from Washington this morning.
Hi, David. Good morning. Nice to see you.
DAVID KAY, FMR. U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: We heard from secretary Powell that he believes that not only does Iran have nuclear weapons, but they're all working on arming those missiles with nuclear warheads. How likely do you think is a scenario that he is predicting there?
KAY: Well, Soledad, we have the makings, really, of a perfect storm. U.S. intelligence capability to warn, and particularly secretary of state's capability to warn about weapons program has been seriously impeded by, in fact, the false warnings given about Iraq. This intelligence seems to be based on dissident groups. Well, in the case of Iraq, dissident groups fed us misinformation.
And then finally, the IAEA's own capability in Iran is seriously in question because for 15 years, they missed a clandestine program. So you can say it's likely, but it's going to be very hard to convince the Europeans and others that in fact that is what is happening.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about two elements of that that you mention. The exile group raising this new information, they say, in fact that there's a new nuclear weapons facility that has been hidden from the IAEA. How likely do you think that is?
KAY: Well, based on past performance of the Iranians, in which they hid facilities from the IAEA for really 18 years, it seems quite credible. On the other hand, this dissident group has a checkered record. It's been right about some information. It's been seriously wrong. And I think the Iranians will have no trouble discrediting it coming so soon after a supposed agreement with the Europeans.
O'BRIEN: The dissidents findings contradicts the IAEA report submitted by Mohammed El Baradei that Iran does not have nuclear weapons-related work going on right now. Is this a direct contradiction, or is it just that the IAEA doesn't have access to everything?
KAY: Well, it's not really a direct contradiction. The report is really nuanced, and it speaks of what they observed, and admits that there may be things that they have not observed, and it's going to take a great deal longer. In fact, I think the real imperative now is to empower the IAEA, the only people on the ground in Iran with the capability to do real inspection inspections, and see if the Iranians allow it.
O'BRIEN: As you mentioned, all of this happens in the wake of this pledge between Iran and three European countries. In your mind, does this pledge not have any value whatsoever if in fact, everything else is true?
KAY: Well, it has some value. But how much value it has has already been called into question by the Iranians. The Iranians have said it's temporary, it's to be measured in months, not years. The Europeans have said, oh, no, it's years, if not permanent. We expect Iran to give up its uranium-enrichment capability.
The simply fact of the matter is that the Iranians have shown no indication that they will permanently give up their right to enrich uranium, and as long as they have that, they're on the path to creating a nuclear weapon.
O'BRIEN: David Kay, nice to see you as always, David. Thanks for that insight.
KAY: Sure thing.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come, millions of Americans will be traveling this holiday season, many of them by plane, of course. But could a potential flight attendants strike throw a wrench into those plans? We'll take a look at that.
HEMMER: Also the numbers crunch. Military officials saying just how close the military might be at overextending itself in Iraq. We'll look at the hard numbers that we're getting there.
O'BRIEN: And coming up next, Congress looks into the Vioxx mess. We'll ask one senator whether the FDA should share some blame as well. Those stories all ahead as we continue right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody, 13 minutes past the hour now. The chairman of Merck and the head of the FDA today go before a Senate Finance Committee, answering questions about Vioxx. Should the arthritis drug have been pulled from the market sooner?
Vioxx is linked to an increased risk of heart attack and stroke. And here to talk about today, Iowa Republican, Senator Chuck Grassley, chairman of the Finance Committee.
And, Senator, good morning. Welcome back here.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: Good morning, pal.
HEMMER: Two points of focus here: the FDA or Merck. Can you say at this point what is more in focus? Is it the company or is it the agency that approved this drug in the first place?
GRASSLEY: I think there's enough evidence in both cases that the governmental agency, the Food and Drug Administration that's supposed to guarantee safety of drugs for the consuming public has not been doing its job. It's been discouraging scientists from pursuing the scientific approach to make sure that drugs are safe. They haven't been willing to listen to dissident points of view within their organization, the extent to which maybe a certain drug was not safe.
HEMMER: Hang on one second, Senator. What's the motivation within the FDA to do that and have that attitude?
GRASSLEY: Well, first of all, there's an administrative setup where the Office of Drug Safety is under the Office of New Drugs. And it seems to me that that sort of relationship is not very good if you're going to -- you ought to have an independent office of drug safety, it seems like.
HEMMER: All right.
There's a front page story in the Washington Post that, I think, it may go to your very point. Let me read just -- in the first sentence, "the agency now is focusing" -- the agency being the FDA -- "focusing more in bolstering the pharmaceutical industry than protecting public health." Do you have evidence that would support that story?
GRASSLEY: Well, let's say as an example communiques that come from pharmaceutical agencies to the FDA that says, "Well, if you find something wrong with our drugs, would you give us a heads up so we're able to respond if there's public criticism?" -- things of that nature. That seems to me that the Food and Drug Administration is giving more attention to the profits of the pharmaceutical companies -- or at least a concern of the pharmaceutical companies than they are to their number one client, which is the people of the United States.
Another example would be when one of their scientists goes to Paris to give a paper and he brings up about the dangers of Vioxx, causing heart attacks. Then he comes back and he tells us that he's ambushed by people within the Food and Drug Administration. And in the end, you know, there's a great deal of intimidation. So there's a culture within the Food and Drug Administration that bothers me.
HEMMER: If I could -- just back to this report again in the Washington Post. It indicates in 1996 to 2001, a five-year period, 10 drugs were recalled during that period.
From 2001 to 2004, a three-year period, three drugs were taken off the market. On its face, does that indicate much to you?
GRASSLEY: Well, it indicates to me that there's been a laxity that's demonstrated by a couple instances just this year. Vioxx being withdrawn by Merck. And then the scientist, Dr. Gilbert, being suppressed to some extent.
Remember back in February we had the scientist who was suppressed again within FDA because he had evidence that an anti-depressant was causing suicide among children and he wanted a warning put on the box?
HEMMER: Let me get to one final point here as it relates to Merck specifically. The head of that company was on our show two days ago.
Listen to what he said about the recall and how the company responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY GILMARTIN, MERCK CEO: The first time we had a confirmed risk of Vioxx against placebo was when we got a call from the outside investigator on September 23rd that said that he had seen -- or the Safety Monitoring Board had seen -- a higher risk of cardiovascular events that had developed beginning after 18 months, and they recommended we end the clinical trial.
After we looked at the data, within less than a week we withdrew the drug voluntarily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Based on that response and based on what you know so far, Senator, did the company act quick enough?
GRASSLEY: I don't think so. Because I think he's basing the statement that I just heard on the word "confirmed" evidence. I think if you wait until you get everything confirmed, there's enough reports and different studies, even within the Merck organization, prior to the drug going on the market and even after the drug went on the market that would indicate to me that there were red flags coming up within their own organization, plus the fact that two or three years ago they were thinking about setting up a study that involved 30,000 people because there was some concern about it. And then they dropped that all of a sudden.
Another thing was that there was a period of time in there where they were -- where FDA was considering putting a warning label on and they decided not to go with a warning label. They went with a lesser sort of information to the public. And that took a two-year period of time.
And so that would have been some warning to Merck, as well, it seems like.
HEMMER: We will follow that hearing. It starts today. 20 million have used Vioxx over the years.
Senator Grassley, Republican from Iowa.
Thank you, Senator, for your time today.
GRASSLEY: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: The stars of the Democratic Party are celebrating today in Little Rock, Arkansas at the dedication of Bill Clinton's $165 million presidential library. Former first lady turned senator from New York, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is at the library this morning. She joins us.
Nice to see you, senator. Thanks for being with us.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Thank you, Soledad. It's good to talk to you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you. We got lots to cover, in fact. not only the library, of course, but politics as well. But we'll start with the library this morning. I heard reports that the president himself was involved in the very details about the architecture, things like that. Is that accurate?
CLINTON: Absolutely. This was a real labor of love for Bill, and he started working with the architects about, oh, I guess, six years ago and was involved in every step of the way, giving his ideas about not only how it should be designed, but what it would look like, what the meaning of it would be. And it is just like Bill Clinton. I mean, it's open, it's expansive, it's welcoming, it's spirited, and it is a bridge to the 21st century. That is the whole sense of it.
O'BRIEN: Some people have described it as a shrine as well. Do you think that's a fair description?
CLINTON: Well, I think if you've been to any presidential library, it tells the story of that president's life. I have been to, I guess, all of them, and they are all trying to portray to Americans what that particular president believed, what he did when he was president. But it's more of a historical and really a creative way of having people look at the exhibits, look at the gifts that were given when a president was in office. And I really think that it's smart, because most Americans will never visit the White House, and this presidential library will have an actual replica of the Oval Office when Bill was president. So people, thousands of people, will be able to bring their children and able to see that, or the cabinet room, or one of the limousines that drove the president around. And, I think that's important in our government that we have as much connection with people, and that's one of the reasons why Bill wanted it to be literally a transparent building, because he believes that government and a Democracy like ours should be transparent and open to people.
O'BRIEN: There are some critics, though, who say that the museum itself, the library, minimizes the role your husband had in the impeachment process, in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. What do you make of that criticism?
CLINTON: You know, I think that the library presents a full and accurate picture of the Clinton administration. There were a lot of things that went on during those eight years, a lot of great accomplishments for our country and for the world. So everything is put into context. And people can come and judge for themselves. And in addition to that, you know, Bill will be opening up his records for his library much sooner than the law requires so that scholars and researchers, historians will be able to get in and look at all of the documents and start writing about what happened during the Clinton presidency.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk a moment about politics now. There are reports that Karl Rove has approached the Democratic Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska to be the secretary of agricultural. There are some cynics who would say it's less of an endorsement of the senator than trying to remove another Democrat from the Senate. Where do you stand on that?
CLINTON: Well, I have no, you know, inside information about any of that. The president has been re-elected. He has a right to ask anyone to be in his cabinet. And then of course who ever's asked has a right to decide whether that's what he or she wants to do.
Ben Nelson is a terrific senator from Nebraska. We love having him in the Senate and as part of the Democratic caucus. He's really a funny, wonderful guy with a great sense of humor. And you know, I hope he stays in the Senate, but obviously, that's up to him.
O'BRIEN: Another thing we're talking about in the news today, of course, is the House Republicans changing the rules to essentially inoculate Tom Delay if he is indeed indicted. No, don't laugh before I finish my question here. What do you make of that this morning? We're hearing lots from Capitol Hill about this.
CLINTON: Well, what can I say? It's just so typical. I mean, they're running the House of Representatives like a fiefdom with Tom Delay, you know, in charge of the plantation. I think it's kind of a sad commentary. I don't think it's good for Democracy. I don't think it's good for the Republican Party. But again, I don't have a vote in the Republican caucus in the House; they'll decide what they want to do, but one would hope that they would not be so quick to change the rules when it affects their leader. They certainly wanted to apply the harshest of rules to Democratic leaders for so many years.
I think we need to call a truce to all of this back and forth, and you know, let's have rules that apply to everybody. It's like the idea that some want to change the filibuster, which has been a time- honored tradition in the Senate. You know, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and I think that we have an administration and Republican leadership that, you know, is very powerful. And power should be handled carefully in a democracy.
So, again, I don't have a vote in any of this, but I hope that, you know, more thoughtful minds prevail over what should be done going forward.
O'BRIEN: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton joining us this morning. Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us this morning.
CLINTON: Thank you, Soledad. Come and see the library.
O'BRIEN: You know, if I get a day off, I would love to do that. Thank you.
CLINTON: Great. Thank you.
O'BRIEN: CNN's going to, in fact, have live coverage of the library's dedication ceremony, and our coverage at noon Eastern -- Bill.
HEMMER: Just about 24 minutes past the hour. In a moment, Sears and Kmart struck a big deal. We'll talk about that, at this time yesterday. What will they call the new company? And what does that say about their marketing strategy? Good questions for Andy to answer when he "Minds Your Business," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back everybody. Taking a look now which stocks got a boost from the big Kmart/Sears merger, and is there a chance that one of those famous names could go away?
Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business" this morning. Hello.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
The big story, obviously, yesterday, Soledad, Wall Street gives a big thumbs-up to the deal. As you might expect, Sears stock up sharply yesterday. They were, after all, acquired by Kmart when it comes right down to it, but also Kmart up as well, and then some other companies that are connected to these two companies. You can see Martha Stewart, obviously distributed in Kmart, will be distributed in the Sears stores. Whirlpool, a big Sears company, now they're going expand into Kmart. Danhurr (ph), which makes Craftsman tools, also up.
Now as far as this name change goes, you know, they are going to keep the two names at least initially, Soledad. But a lot of speculation that the Kmart name will ultimately disappear, story in "The Wall Street Journal" this morning. Sears has a better name. Sales are better at Sears.
And another interesting sidenote from yesterday as well, two U.S. senators on Capitol Hill calling for the government to look into the merger in terms of antitrust violations. Mike DeWine from Ohio, and also Wisconsin Senator Herb Kohl. Kind of interesting there, because his family founded Kohl's, that store. He was president of that company. The family later sold that business. But interesting, he has some retailing connections there.
O'BRIEN: Might be a little more to it than just concerns about antitrust.
SERWER: Interesting.
O'BRIEN: And we will see. Andy Serwer, thanks -- Bill.
SERWER: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, you heard what ABC had to say, what the NFL had to say about Monday night's steamy skit. Now the FCC chairman weighs in on that issue. Also, planning to fly this holiday season?
If so, do you need to be worried about a potential strike by the flight attendants. We'll talk about that, let you know what you need to know in a moment here, as AMERICAN MORNING continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
