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American Morning

Life and Times of Bill Clinton on Display; FDA Has Some Explaining to Do About This Year's Flu Shot Fiasco

Aired November 18, 2004 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Good morning, 9:30 here in New York. How are you doing?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Never better, and you?

HEMMER: Terrific.

O'BRIEN: Good.

HEMMER: Yes, we'll get more pat answers later.

With 80 million pages of documents and two million photos, there's plenty to learn about the Clinton presidency, this shiny new library. But will visitors get a complete picture? We'll talk about that with a close friend of the former president. James Rutherford is our guest in Little Rock in a few moments.

O'BRIEN: Also ahead this morning archaeologists think they might be on to something really, big in South Carolina, something that could shatter everything scientists thought they knew about the first Americans. We're going to talk to the man who is leading a remarkable project about what these scientists are learning. That's just ahead.

All right, Jack Cafferty is on assignment today. We'll get him back tomorrow. In the meantime, Carol Costello is with us in the news there.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And it's nice to be here. Good morning to you. Good morning, everyone.

Now in the news, a terror-related discovery in Falluja. U.S. and Iraqi forces say they've uncovered an apparent safehouse linked to terrorist Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, including letters to and from Zarqawi. Military sources say they also found symbols of support for Osama bin Laden.

There is word this morning President Bush is considering appointing another Democrat to his cabinet. Sources say the president's top political adviser has approached Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson about becoming agriculture secretary. Ann Veneman, who currently holds that position, announced her resignation on Monday. The only Democrat now in the Bush cabinet is Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta. Scott Peterson's defense wants a new jury to decide his fate. Mark Geragos filed a motion yesterday, asking for a new panel to be appointed for the penalty phase. He also wants a change of venue. The judge is expected to make a decision on Monday. We'll get more legal perspective on this from Jeff Toobin in just a minute.

And, darn, no more fluffy pillows on hundreds of American Airlines flights. Yes, the Texas-based carrier says it will make cleaning the cabins faster and less costly. The company says customers may not even notice the change, because they can now use adjustable head rests if they want to get comfortable. Blankets, by the way, are still available. I'm always afraid to use the pillows and blankets on planes.

O'BRIEN: You see, you're thinking the same way. I mentioned that, too.

HEMMER: I like the head rests, though, comes in handy.

COSTELLO: I've never even seen an adjustable head rest on a plane that actually is comfortable. Oh, come on, that's because you sit in first class.

O'BRIEN: Ow.

HEMMER: I fly my own plane, woman.

COSTELLO: That explains it.

O'BRIEN: Let's move on. Carol, thanks.

The life and times of Bill Clinton will be on display starting today in Little Rock, Arkansas. The highlights and the lowlights of his two terms in office are all part of the Clinton Presidential Library. It formally opens today. Skip Rutherford is the president of the Clinton Foundation and joins us from Little Rock.

Good morning. Congratulations for finally pulling this all together, huh?

JAMES "SKIP" RUTHERFORD, PRESIDENT, CLINTON FOUNDATION: Thank you very much. It's a great day in Arkansas.

O'BRIEN: I bet it is. Give me a sense of how different this presidential library is from the others that exist.

RUTHERFORD: Soledad, you know, this is the 12th presidential library, and it's easier being number twelve than No. 1, because we've learned from the other 11, and I'm grateful for their help and support. While it was a very partisan route getting to the presidency, it's a very nonpartisan route once you reach the pinnacle. And all these libraries work together.

So in learning from the other libraries, we picked the best, and one of the things that makes this library different is it's part of the community. It's part of downtown little rock. It's within walking distance of hotels and restaurants, and the public library and the convention center. So it's not a single-source destination. It's right in the heart of the city, in the middle of a 30-acre urban park.

O'BRIEN: Some of the things you had to deal with, as well, is the documents and some of things that could be destroyed by the light, at the same time, wanting to make it an open and inviting space. How did you deal with that?

RUTHERFORD: Well, we had a great architect by the name of Jim Polshack (ph) and his team that made that possible. We wanted a lot of light. We wanted to use a lot of glass and steel. We wanted it to be open. But at the same time, yes, you have to preserve the documents. So we've done that through a variety of measures, including a second shading of glass. This building will be a green building. In fact, it's awarded silver lead status. We're proud of that. The environmental features are very important. President Clinton wanted to build a building of architectural significance that was environmentally sensitive with high-quality exhibits. The exhibits were designed by Ralph Applebaum (ph), who did the exhibits in the Holocaust Museum, which I think is one of the best in the world.

O'BRIEN: There are some who say it represents a bridge to the future, and others, and I think it was a British paper, that gave a little flak to the president, saying that it kind of looked like, I believed I'm quoting now, "a glorified trailer park," if I'm not mistaken. He had kind of a laugh about that, didn't he?

RUTHERFORD: Oh, yes. You got to laugh about it. That's just part of the territory. It's a very modern architectural structure, which is somewhat different for Arkansas. So, it is a little different for our part of the country. But on the other hand, it is very unique. It is very interesting, and it is on the same area with a restored 1899 passenger train depot that will house the university of Arkansas Clinton school. And next year we're going to convert a pedestrian -- an old railroad bridge into a pedestrian bridge. That bridge was built in 1899, so in essence, on the property, you have the bridge to the 19th century and the bridge to the 21st century.

O'BRIEN: Skip Rutherford, joining us this morning to talk a little bit about the Clinton Library opening today.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks.

RUTHERFORD: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: My pleasure.

We're, of course, going to carry that dedication ceremony that's happening at noon Eastern time right here on CNN.

HEMMER: 25 minutes before the hour. I want to talk about two legal cases now. First of all, the civil matter in the Kobe Bryant case now under way in Colorado; and you also have the Scott Peterson penalty phase, about to get under way the beginning of next week.

Our senior legal analyst finds himself today in Washington. That's Jeff Toobin.

Good morning, Jeff. How are you?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Bill. Very well, sir.

HEMMER: Find out what you're doing in D.C. in a moment here.

I want to first talk about the Scott Peterson matter. Mark Geragos is trying to have a new jury seated for the penalty phase. Has this ever happened before?

TOOBIN: As far as I know, it's never happened before, and for a good reason. The whole idea behind a penalty phase is that the same jury that hears the guilt phase uses that evidence, plus what's presented at the penalty phase, to decide if someone deserves the death penalty. I don't see how you could bring in a new jury now, because they wouldn't know what the guilt phase jury knew.

HEMMER: What about the change of venue? Does that stand a chance?

TOOBIN: You know, I think basically none at all. The papers haven't been released, so I haven't read them. But I assume Geragos is responding to the cheers that were outside the courtroom after Peterson was convicted.

And look, the guy's client is facing the death penalty. I don't blame him for pushing any issue he possibly can. But I think neither of these has any hope of succeeding.

HEMMER: Does that take us into the possibility that he's desperate? A desperate attorney grabbing for...

TOOBIN: Yes. He's desperate. And frankly, I think he's a little embarrassed. Remember, he wasn't there on the day of the verdict. Geragos was so sure that the verdict wasn't going to come out on Friday that he went home to Southern California. And he wasn't even there to take the verdict, which I think is pretty embarrassing, for any attorney, but especially for one in a trial of this magnitude.

HEMMER: Let's talk about Kobe Bryant's case, if we could, quickly. That civil case is under way now with a hearing yesterday, the first one of its kind on the civil side. Lin Wood is the attorney representing the accuser. He says there's a U.S. Supreme Court decision that allows him to take simultaneous civil suits in different states at the same time. Would he be backed up by the high court on that if he wants to start in California and Colorado?

TOOBIN: You know, I think it is possible he's right on the legal issue, but I think you need to keep your eye on the ball here, which is the odds of either of these trials -- he's suing also in California, as well as in Colorado -- she is suing in California, as well as in Colorado -- is that a settlement is overwhelmingly likely here. It is so much in both of these parties' interests. You've got Kobe Bryant with $100 million burning a hole in his pocket. You've got this woman who does not want to testify, who basically just wants to get paid at this point. It seems like a meeting of the minds is very likely.

HEMMER: So when Lin Wood says he wants to depose Kobe Bryant sometime early in December, could that not happen in the end then?

TOOBIN: I think that the deposition is really what will push the settlement, as Lin Wood, a very smart lawyer, knows, that Kobe Bryant does not want to relive this. I think early December is way too early. His lawyers will push it farther back. So I don't think we'll see a settlement all that soon. But I really expect we'll see a settlement before either a deposition or certainly a trial.

HEMMER: You got it. Hey, listen, what are you doing in D.C.? I know you've got a book coming out soon.

TOOBIN: That right, I'm actually doing reporting for my book about the Supreme Court, doing some New Yorker stories, getting ready for what a lot of people expect will be confirmation hearings sooner rather than later.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff. See you back in New York soon.

TOOBIN: OK, Bill.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: The FDA has some explaining to do about this year's flu shot fiasco. In Washington, a congressional committee blaming government regulators for the shortage.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta at CNN center with more on this. What gives, Sanjay? The fingers are pointing in a lot of different ways here.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everyone's pointing, Bill.

The FDA commissioner, the FDA people saying they were surprised when they heard that there was going to be half a flu vaccine were going to be short this year. A congressional committee said, you know what, you should have seen it coming. It's getting really contentious.

I want to play you a little clip from yesterday, some of the hearings.

Listen to how contentious it's getting, Bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: So you're saying to the people of the United States as they watch you on C-SPAN that you all make no mistakes?

DR. LESTER CRAWFORD, ACTING COMMISSIONER, FDA: As I said, we condemn...

CUMMINGS: Yes or no? CRAWFORD: And it did not get here. We make...

CUMMINGS: No, I'm talking about with regard to this.

CRAWFORD: We followed the procedures and we took the right action.

CUMMINGS: No mistakes?

CRAWFORD: The vaccine didn't get into circulation.

CUMMINGS: Fine. Apparently you don't want to answer my question. I asked you a question. I said, did you make any mistakes? Did FDA make any mistakes with regard to this? Sir, let me tell you something, I've got to go back to my district, I've got and explain to them why we've got a federal agency that, to me, made some mistakes, but refuses to admit it. At least give me, just tell me -- just say no.

CRAWFORD: I already told you we made a mistake. We made a mistake.

CUMMINGS: No. You did?

What were the mistakes that you made so that we can correct them?

CRAWFORD: We didn't get the report back to them on time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: And you can see their Congressman Cummings, a Democrat, asking the questions, and acting FDA commissioner Crawford there as well, answering the questions. Very contentious.

Let me give you a little perspective on what's been happening over the past several years with records to Chiron. That's the plant charged with making some of these flu vaccines. In 1999, the FDA inspected it, issued a warning letter to the Chiron plant. Four years later, 2003, inspectors again recommended another warning. The FDA actually downgraded that to a voluntary action, and subsequently did not have any significant follow-up. You can see then August of 2004, that's when a lot of people here picked up the story. British authorities shut down the plant due to bacterial contamination. FDA then returned to inspect the Chiron plant. As of October of 2004, they say none of the flu vaccines are going to be available, caused a real problem. A lot of people, as you pointed out, Bill, are blaming each other.

HEMMER: Did -- was the follow-up, is that the area where people think the ball was dropped here? Had they been tougher on the plant in England, would that have alleviated the issue we're seeing now?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, I think that really speaks to the heart of the issue, the fallout. You saw these problems five years ago, really 1999 the first time. What was done to prevent this crisis this year from happening? That's what a lot of the questions were sort of focused on. I should point out a couple of things, though. It will make no difference. These hearings that you're listening to take no difference as far as the flu vaccine availability for this year. The hope is that this problem won't occur again next year, Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Sanjay, thanks. Sanjay Gupta at the CNN Center.

O'BRIEN: Coming up this morning, just when you thought the biggest corporate scandal in history was fading away, it actually makes a comeback.

Andy's "Minding Your Business" just ahead. He's going to explain.

HEMMER: Also this huge archaeological find in South Carolina, why it may change what we know about the origins of we humans here in North America.

Back in a moment here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Conventional wisdom says the first signs of our species in North America date back some 13,000 years. But archaeologists digging in South Carolina have found some new evidence that man may have arrived on this continent 50,000 years ago. That is well before the last Ice Age.

Archaeologists Albert Goodyear led the team who's discovered this. He joins us from Columbia South Carolina this morning.

Nice to see you, professor. Thanks for being with us.

ALBERT GOODYEAR, ARCHAEOLOGIST: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A lot of this stems from carbon tests that were done on some of the material that was dug up. What exactly did you find?

GOODYEAR: Well, what we found was a black stain in the soil that looks like a hearth, we're not positive, but it produced carbonized plant remains, which were able to be radio carbonated. And two dates were in excess of 50,000 out of that hearth-like stain.

O'BRIEN: What's the implication? If it's 13,000 or 50,000, why is that difference such a big deal?

GOODYEAR: Well, for the last 50 or 60 years, North American archaeologists have believed that the first culture that really showed up in this part of the world was (INAUDIBLE) culture about 13,000 years ago and those were the ancestors of the American Indians. But in the last 20 years, several sites in South America and eastern North America have shown that people in all likelihood were here 16,000 or 20,000 years ago. So that's a new story in American archaeology. And the topper site that we're working on has been participating, contributing to that story. However, we dug down even deeper, this past year, deeper than the 20,000-year zone, into the Pleistocene (ph) terrace, and there are artifacts all the way through the terrace and fortunately for us, at the bottom of it, we found this carbon, datable carbon, and we have artifacts at that depth. So we have a couple of radiocarbon dates and a few stone tools down there. So and to us anyway, one and one equals two, even back in the Pleistocene, it's archaeology.

O'BRIEN: So what kind of questions do you think this raises or answers?

GOODYEAR: Well, it raises more than it answers. I would just predict looking at it from my point of view, as an archaeologist of 30 years, it will be outright rejection of it. That's certainly what I would do if I had touched it with my own hands.

I think what it does, is it opens up the door even further to when did human beings like us get in this hemisphere? And taken at face value, this site proves out, and others like it. The Western hemisphere participated in the radiation of our species, homosapiens.

O'BRIEN: When you say radiation, you mean migration.

GOODYEAR: Yes, right.

O'BRIEN: So all the theories we have about where man came from in Africa and how it moved across the continents is now kind of thrown into doubt. But as you say, it's almost so shocking that if you hadn't been the one to discover it, you would have thrown this out.

GOODYEAR: That would be my reaction. This is an impossibility. But I think, you know, science does know a lot of things, but science doesn't know everything. And I think every once in awhile what happens in a scientific paradigm, the weaknesses finally come through, and our profession has not looked very seriously for things like this, because it hasn't believed it existed. And I was certainly in that camp for 25 years.

O'BRIEN: Well you're all going to go through a peer-review process, but congratulations in advance on your findings, and...

GOODYEAR: Right.

O'BRIEN: ... and it's truly a big shock to what we know. Thanks for being with us.

Thanks for being with us, professor. We appreciate it.

GOODYEAR: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: All right, in a moment here, the government now with someone new in its sights as it probes the Enron scandal, and she did not even work for the company. Andy's "Minding Your Business," explains that in a moment when we continue after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right, the markets are open for business, we know that. Twenty-three minutes into today's trading. And why is Ken Lay's wife back in the news? Andy Serwer back with us "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Can't escape the news. That's Linda Lay, remember, Ken Lay's wife. She was on TV last year, I think, in tears, an interview about her and her husband...

O'BRIEN: Crying poor mouth.

SERWER: ... were bankrupt, yes.

Let's talk about the markets, first of all, kind of trading all over the map this morning, up 32 on the Dow. Tech stocks are weaker. Applied Materials is down a bit. Google all over the map, trying to digest that news of slower revenue growth there.

Sears and Kmart backed down a little bit this morning. You might expect that after those huge days yesterday.

Merck's CEO Ray Gilmartin is in the hot seat today. He's going to be testifying before a Senate panel at about 10:00 a.m. Will be interesting to see what happens there.

Speaking of Enron and Linda Lay, federal investigators apparently looking into trading that Mrs. Lay did shortly before Enron declared bankruptcy, sold 500,000 shares just days before the company went bankrupt for $2.30. Next day, the stock went to 61 cents. That's a big drop. Now, to be fair to Linda, all this went to charity. It was a nonprofit sale she did to give to charities. And I got to say, in the greater scheme of things, with everything else that went on at that company, a sale to charity is not the biggest thing.

O'BRIEN: Isn't that a tax write-off?

SERWER: It could be, it certainly could be. You could benefit from that.

O'BRIEN: You could benefit a lot from that.

SERWER: Be a million dollar sale, so you could write off part of it. Yes, so it's just such a big, complicated matter.

HEMMER: What's Google about $783 a share now?

SERWER: I happen to now it's around $172.

HEMMER: I'm kind of watching.

TOURE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think that Linda Lay's friends call her L.L. Cool J?

O'BRIEN: No. SERWER: No, no, they don't. They call her L.L.

TOURE: All right, well, I have a serious question.

O'BRIEN: What's the Question of the Day?

TOURE: The question of the day, we've been talking about "Time" magazine's person of the year. This year's cover is being decided as we speak. The "Time" magazine people are up there thinking about it right now.

Before we get to your answers, two covers that I loved aesthetically from the past. 1958, they put Nikita Khrushchev on the cover looking like a boy king toying with the world, right, what a great image. And in 1971, German Chancellor Willy Brandt's (ph) looks like a classic rock 'n' roll album cover, doesn't it?

SERWER: Or Hannibal Lecter, I thought that looked like.

TOURE: Right, it's so hot.

SERWER: I mean, strange.

TOURE: Our question of the day, who should be "Time" magazine's person of the year? Good answers coming up.

This is one from Citizen Zombie, OK, making reference to the FCC thing, love the Citizen Zombie thing. "How about Big Brother for person of the year. He really is watching." Right, right?

HEMMER: Twenty years after 1984.

SERWER: Very appropriate.

TOURE: Still watching.

Mike from Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, "Bloggers have emerged this year as a force to be reckoned with. This is 'Time's' last year to choose person of the year. Next year, the blogs will choose. The revolution will be blogs."

SERWER: What's a blog going to look like?

TOURE: And James from Glenville, Illinois suggests "Jack Cafferty. No hair dye, no designer clothes and a lot of sarcasm, a real American man."

O'BRIEN: This on the hair dye, the designer clothes.

HEMMER: The votes are in.

O'BRIEN: Toure, thanks.

TOURE: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: OK, great, we're back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired November 18, 2004 - 09:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Good morning, 9:30 here in New York. How are you doing?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Never better, and you?

HEMMER: Terrific.

O'BRIEN: Good.

HEMMER: Yes, we'll get more pat answers later.

With 80 million pages of documents and two million photos, there's plenty to learn about the Clinton presidency, this shiny new library. But will visitors get a complete picture? We'll talk about that with a close friend of the former president. James Rutherford is our guest in Little Rock in a few moments.

O'BRIEN: Also ahead this morning archaeologists think they might be on to something really, big in South Carolina, something that could shatter everything scientists thought they knew about the first Americans. We're going to talk to the man who is leading a remarkable project about what these scientists are learning. That's just ahead.

All right, Jack Cafferty is on assignment today. We'll get him back tomorrow. In the meantime, Carol Costello is with us in the news there.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And it's nice to be here. Good morning to you. Good morning, everyone.

Now in the news, a terror-related discovery in Falluja. U.S. and Iraqi forces say they've uncovered an apparent safehouse linked to terrorist Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, including letters to and from Zarqawi. Military sources say they also found symbols of support for Osama bin Laden.

There is word this morning President Bush is considering appointing another Democrat to his cabinet. Sources say the president's top political adviser has approached Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson about becoming agriculture secretary. Ann Veneman, who currently holds that position, announced her resignation on Monday. The only Democrat now in the Bush cabinet is Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta. Scott Peterson's defense wants a new jury to decide his fate. Mark Geragos filed a motion yesterday, asking for a new panel to be appointed for the penalty phase. He also wants a change of venue. The judge is expected to make a decision on Monday. We'll get more legal perspective on this from Jeff Toobin in just a minute.

And, darn, no more fluffy pillows on hundreds of American Airlines flights. Yes, the Texas-based carrier says it will make cleaning the cabins faster and less costly. The company says customers may not even notice the change, because they can now use adjustable head rests if they want to get comfortable. Blankets, by the way, are still available. I'm always afraid to use the pillows and blankets on planes.

O'BRIEN: You see, you're thinking the same way. I mentioned that, too.

HEMMER: I like the head rests, though, comes in handy.

COSTELLO: I've never even seen an adjustable head rest on a plane that actually is comfortable. Oh, come on, that's because you sit in first class.

O'BRIEN: Ow.

HEMMER: I fly my own plane, woman.

COSTELLO: That explains it.

O'BRIEN: Let's move on. Carol, thanks.

The life and times of Bill Clinton will be on display starting today in Little Rock, Arkansas. The highlights and the lowlights of his two terms in office are all part of the Clinton Presidential Library. It formally opens today. Skip Rutherford is the president of the Clinton Foundation and joins us from Little Rock.

Good morning. Congratulations for finally pulling this all together, huh?

JAMES "SKIP" RUTHERFORD, PRESIDENT, CLINTON FOUNDATION: Thank you very much. It's a great day in Arkansas.

O'BRIEN: I bet it is. Give me a sense of how different this presidential library is from the others that exist.

RUTHERFORD: Soledad, you know, this is the 12th presidential library, and it's easier being number twelve than No. 1, because we've learned from the other 11, and I'm grateful for their help and support. While it was a very partisan route getting to the presidency, it's a very nonpartisan route once you reach the pinnacle. And all these libraries work together.

So in learning from the other libraries, we picked the best, and one of the things that makes this library different is it's part of the community. It's part of downtown little rock. It's within walking distance of hotels and restaurants, and the public library and the convention center. So it's not a single-source destination. It's right in the heart of the city, in the middle of a 30-acre urban park.

O'BRIEN: Some of the things you had to deal with, as well, is the documents and some of things that could be destroyed by the light, at the same time, wanting to make it an open and inviting space. How did you deal with that?

RUTHERFORD: Well, we had a great architect by the name of Jim Polshack (ph) and his team that made that possible. We wanted a lot of light. We wanted to use a lot of glass and steel. We wanted it to be open. But at the same time, yes, you have to preserve the documents. So we've done that through a variety of measures, including a second shading of glass. This building will be a green building. In fact, it's awarded silver lead status. We're proud of that. The environmental features are very important. President Clinton wanted to build a building of architectural significance that was environmentally sensitive with high-quality exhibits. The exhibits were designed by Ralph Applebaum (ph), who did the exhibits in the Holocaust Museum, which I think is one of the best in the world.

O'BRIEN: There are some who say it represents a bridge to the future, and others, and I think it was a British paper, that gave a little flak to the president, saying that it kind of looked like, I believed I'm quoting now, "a glorified trailer park," if I'm not mistaken. He had kind of a laugh about that, didn't he?

RUTHERFORD: Oh, yes. You got to laugh about it. That's just part of the territory. It's a very modern architectural structure, which is somewhat different for Arkansas. So, it is a little different for our part of the country. But on the other hand, it is very unique. It is very interesting, and it is on the same area with a restored 1899 passenger train depot that will house the university of Arkansas Clinton school. And next year we're going to convert a pedestrian -- an old railroad bridge into a pedestrian bridge. That bridge was built in 1899, so in essence, on the property, you have the bridge to the 19th century and the bridge to the 21st century.

O'BRIEN: Skip Rutherford, joining us this morning to talk a little bit about the Clinton Library opening today.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks.

RUTHERFORD: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: My pleasure.

We're, of course, going to carry that dedication ceremony that's happening at noon Eastern time right here on CNN.

HEMMER: 25 minutes before the hour. I want to talk about two legal cases now. First of all, the civil matter in the Kobe Bryant case now under way in Colorado; and you also have the Scott Peterson penalty phase, about to get under way the beginning of next week.

Our senior legal analyst finds himself today in Washington. That's Jeff Toobin.

Good morning, Jeff. How are you?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Bill. Very well, sir.

HEMMER: Find out what you're doing in D.C. in a moment here.

I want to first talk about the Scott Peterson matter. Mark Geragos is trying to have a new jury seated for the penalty phase. Has this ever happened before?

TOOBIN: As far as I know, it's never happened before, and for a good reason. The whole idea behind a penalty phase is that the same jury that hears the guilt phase uses that evidence, plus what's presented at the penalty phase, to decide if someone deserves the death penalty. I don't see how you could bring in a new jury now, because they wouldn't know what the guilt phase jury knew.

HEMMER: What about the change of venue? Does that stand a chance?

TOOBIN: You know, I think basically none at all. The papers haven't been released, so I haven't read them. But I assume Geragos is responding to the cheers that were outside the courtroom after Peterson was convicted.

And look, the guy's client is facing the death penalty. I don't blame him for pushing any issue he possibly can. But I think neither of these has any hope of succeeding.

HEMMER: Does that take us into the possibility that he's desperate? A desperate attorney grabbing for...

TOOBIN: Yes. He's desperate. And frankly, I think he's a little embarrassed. Remember, he wasn't there on the day of the verdict. Geragos was so sure that the verdict wasn't going to come out on Friday that he went home to Southern California. And he wasn't even there to take the verdict, which I think is pretty embarrassing, for any attorney, but especially for one in a trial of this magnitude.

HEMMER: Let's talk about Kobe Bryant's case, if we could, quickly. That civil case is under way now with a hearing yesterday, the first one of its kind on the civil side. Lin Wood is the attorney representing the accuser. He says there's a U.S. Supreme Court decision that allows him to take simultaneous civil suits in different states at the same time. Would he be backed up by the high court on that if he wants to start in California and Colorado?

TOOBIN: You know, I think it is possible he's right on the legal issue, but I think you need to keep your eye on the ball here, which is the odds of either of these trials -- he's suing also in California, as well as in Colorado -- she is suing in California, as well as in Colorado -- is that a settlement is overwhelmingly likely here. It is so much in both of these parties' interests. You've got Kobe Bryant with $100 million burning a hole in his pocket. You've got this woman who does not want to testify, who basically just wants to get paid at this point. It seems like a meeting of the minds is very likely.

HEMMER: So when Lin Wood says he wants to depose Kobe Bryant sometime early in December, could that not happen in the end then?

TOOBIN: I think that the deposition is really what will push the settlement, as Lin Wood, a very smart lawyer, knows, that Kobe Bryant does not want to relive this. I think early December is way too early. His lawyers will push it farther back. So I don't think we'll see a settlement all that soon. But I really expect we'll see a settlement before either a deposition or certainly a trial.

HEMMER: You got it. Hey, listen, what are you doing in D.C.? I know you've got a book coming out soon.

TOOBIN: That right, I'm actually doing reporting for my book about the Supreme Court, doing some New Yorker stories, getting ready for what a lot of people expect will be confirmation hearings sooner rather than later.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff. See you back in New York soon.

TOOBIN: OK, Bill.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: The FDA has some explaining to do about this year's flu shot fiasco. In Washington, a congressional committee blaming government regulators for the shortage.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta at CNN center with more on this. What gives, Sanjay? The fingers are pointing in a lot of different ways here.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everyone's pointing, Bill.

The FDA commissioner, the FDA people saying they were surprised when they heard that there was going to be half a flu vaccine were going to be short this year. A congressional committee said, you know what, you should have seen it coming. It's getting really contentious.

I want to play you a little clip from yesterday, some of the hearings.

Listen to how contentious it's getting, Bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: So you're saying to the people of the United States as they watch you on C-SPAN that you all make no mistakes?

DR. LESTER CRAWFORD, ACTING COMMISSIONER, FDA: As I said, we condemn...

CUMMINGS: Yes or no? CRAWFORD: And it did not get here. We make...

CUMMINGS: No, I'm talking about with regard to this.

CRAWFORD: We followed the procedures and we took the right action.

CUMMINGS: No mistakes?

CRAWFORD: The vaccine didn't get into circulation.

CUMMINGS: Fine. Apparently you don't want to answer my question. I asked you a question. I said, did you make any mistakes? Did FDA make any mistakes with regard to this? Sir, let me tell you something, I've got to go back to my district, I've got and explain to them why we've got a federal agency that, to me, made some mistakes, but refuses to admit it. At least give me, just tell me -- just say no.

CRAWFORD: I already told you we made a mistake. We made a mistake.

CUMMINGS: No. You did?

What were the mistakes that you made so that we can correct them?

CRAWFORD: We didn't get the report back to them on time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: And you can see their Congressman Cummings, a Democrat, asking the questions, and acting FDA commissioner Crawford there as well, answering the questions. Very contentious.

Let me give you a little perspective on what's been happening over the past several years with records to Chiron. That's the plant charged with making some of these flu vaccines. In 1999, the FDA inspected it, issued a warning letter to the Chiron plant. Four years later, 2003, inspectors again recommended another warning. The FDA actually downgraded that to a voluntary action, and subsequently did not have any significant follow-up. You can see then August of 2004, that's when a lot of people here picked up the story. British authorities shut down the plant due to bacterial contamination. FDA then returned to inspect the Chiron plant. As of October of 2004, they say none of the flu vaccines are going to be available, caused a real problem. A lot of people, as you pointed out, Bill, are blaming each other.

HEMMER: Did -- was the follow-up, is that the area where people think the ball was dropped here? Had they been tougher on the plant in England, would that have alleviated the issue we're seeing now?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, I think that really speaks to the heart of the issue, the fallout. You saw these problems five years ago, really 1999 the first time. What was done to prevent this crisis this year from happening? That's what a lot of the questions were sort of focused on. I should point out a couple of things, though. It will make no difference. These hearings that you're listening to take no difference as far as the flu vaccine availability for this year. The hope is that this problem won't occur again next year, Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Sanjay, thanks. Sanjay Gupta at the CNN Center.

O'BRIEN: Coming up this morning, just when you thought the biggest corporate scandal in history was fading away, it actually makes a comeback.

Andy's "Minding Your Business" just ahead. He's going to explain.

HEMMER: Also this huge archaeological find in South Carolina, why it may change what we know about the origins of we humans here in North America.

Back in a moment here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Conventional wisdom says the first signs of our species in North America date back some 13,000 years. But archaeologists digging in South Carolina have found some new evidence that man may have arrived on this continent 50,000 years ago. That is well before the last Ice Age.

Archaeologists Albert Goodyear led the team who's discovered this. He joins us from Columbia South Carolina this morning.

Nice to see you, professor. Thanks for being with us.

ALBERT GOODYEAR, ARCHAEOLOGIST: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A lot of this stems from carbon tests that were done on some of the material that was dug up. What exactly did you find?

GOODYEAR: Well, what we found was a black stain in the soil that looks like a hearth, we're not positive, but it produced carbonized plant remains, which were able to be radio carbonated. And two dates were in excess of 50,000 out of that hearth-like stain.

O'BRIEN: What's the implication? If it's 13,000 or 50,000, why is that difference such a big deal?

GOODYEAR: Well, for the last 50 or 60 years, North American archaeologists have believed that the first culture that really showed up in this part of the world was (INAUDIBLE) culture about 13,000 years ago and those were the ancestors of the American Indians. But in the last 20 years, several sites in South America and eastern North America have shown that people in all likelihood were here 16,000 or 20,000 years ago. So that's a new story in American archaeology. And the topper site that we're working on has been participating, contributing to that story. However, we dug down even deeper, this past year, deeper than the 20,000-year zone, into the Pleistocene (ph) terrace, and there are artifacts all the way through the terrace and fortunately for us, at the bottom of it, we found this carbon, datable carbon, and we have artifacts at that depth. So we have a couple of radiocarbon dates and a few stone tools down there. So and to us anyway, one and one equals two, even back in the Pleistocene, it's archaeology.

O'BRIEN: So what kind of questions do you think this raises or answers?

GOODYEAR: Well, it raises more than it answers. I would just predict looking at it from my point of view, as an archaeologist of 30 years, it will be outright rejection of it. That's certainly what I would do if I had touched it with my own hands.

I think what it does, is it opens up the door even further to when did human beings like us get in this hemisphere? And taken at face value, this site proves out, and others like it. The Western hemisphere participated in the radiation of our species, homosapiens.

O'BRIEN: When you say radiation, you mean migration.

GOODYEAR: Yes, right.

O'BRIEN: So all the theories we have about where man came from in Africa and how it moved across the continents is now kind of thrown into doubt. But as you say, it's almost so shocking that if you hadn't been the one to discover it, you would have thrown this out.

GOODYEAR: That would be my reaction. This is an impossibility. But I think, you know, science does know a lot of things, but science doesn't know everything. And I think every once in awhile what happens in a scientific paradigm, the weaknesses finally come through, and our profession has not looked very seriously for things like this, because it hasn't believed it existed. And I was certainly in that camp for 25 years.

O'BRIEN: Well you're all going to go through a peer-review process, but congratulations in advance on your findings, and...

GOODYEAR: Right.

O'BRIEN: ... and it's truly a big shock to what we know. Thanks for being with us.

Thanks for being with us, professor. We appreciate it.

GOODYEAR: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: All right, in a moment here, the government now with someone new in its sights as it probes the Enron scandal, and she did not even work for the company. Andy's "Minding Your Business," explains that in a moment when we continue after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right, the markets are open for business, we know that. Twenty-three minutes into today's trading. And why is Ken Lay's wife back in the news? Andy Serwer back with us "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Can't escape the news. That's Linda Lay, remember, Ken Lay's wife. She was on TV last year, I think, in tears, an interview about her and her husband...

O'BRIEN: Crying poor mouth.

SERWER: ... were bankrupt, yes.

Let's talk about the markets, first of all, kind of trading all over the map this morning, up 32 on the Dow. Tech stocks are weaker. Applied Materials is down a bit. Google all over the map, trying to digest that news of slower revenue growth there.

Sears and Kmart backed down a little bit this morning. You might expect that after those huge days yesterday.

Merck's CEO Ray Gilmartin is in the hot seat today. He's going to be testifying before a Senate panel at about 10:00 a.m. Will be interesting to see what happens there.

Speaking of Enron and Linda Lay, federal investigators apparently looking into trading that Mrs. Lay did shortly before Enron declared bankruptcy, sold 500,000 shares just days before the company went bankrupt for $2.30. Next day, the stock went to 61 cents. That's a big drop. Now, to be fair to Linda, all this went to charity. It was a nonprofit sale she did to give to charities. And I got to say, in the greater scheme of things, with everything else that went on at that company, a sale to charity is not the biggest thing.

O'BRIEN: Isn't that a tax write-off?

SERWER: It could be, it certainly could be. You could benefit from that.

O'BRIEN: You could benefit a lot from that.

SERWER: Be a million dollar sale, so you could write off part of it. Yes, so it's just such a big, complicated matter.

HEMMER: What's Google about $783 a share now?

SERWER: I happen to now it's around $172.

HEMMER: I'm kind of watching.

TOURE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think that Linda Lay's friends call her L.L. Cool J?

O'BRIEN: No. SERWER: No, no, they don't. They call her L.L.

TOURE: All right, well, I have a serious question.

O'BRIEN: What's the Question of the Day?

TOURE: The question of the day, we've been talking about "Time" magazine's person of the year. This year's cover is being decided as we speak. The "Time" magazine people are up there thinking about it right now.

Before we get to your answers, two covers that I loved aesthetically from the past. 1958, they put Nikita Khrushchev on the cover looking like a boy king toying with the world, right, what a great image. And in 1971, German Chancellor Willy Brandt's (ph) looks like a classic rock 'n' roll album cover, doesn't it?

SERWER: Or Hannibal Lecter, I thought that looked like.

TOURE: Right, it's so hot.

SERWER: I mean, strange.

TOURE: Our question of the day, who should be "Time" magazine's person of the year? Good answers coming up.

This is one from Citizen Zombie, OK, making reference to the FCC thing, love the Citizen Zombie thing. "How about Big Brother for person of the year. He really is watching." Right, right?

HEMMER: Twenty years after 1984.

SERWER: Very appropriate.

TOURE: Still watching.

Mike from Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, "Bloggers have emerged this year as a force to be reckoned with. This is 'Time's' last year to choose person of the year. Next year, the blogs will choose. The revolution will be blogs."

SERWER: What's a blog going to look like?

TOURE: And James from Glenville, Illinois suggests "Jack Cafferty. No hair dye, no designer clothes and a lot of sarcasm, a real American man."

O'BRIEN: This on the hair dye, the designer clothes.

HEMMER: The votes are in.

O'BRIEN: Toure, thanks.

TOURE: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: OK, great, we're back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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