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American Morning
Holiday Travel; Iraq's Future
Aired November 22, 2004 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
The holiday travel season, we're talking about it again.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
O'BRIEN: It begins this week. We're going to take a look at what you can expect as the nation's airports get more and more crowded and all of the highways start to clog up. Time, money, how much should you set aside? My guess is a lot.
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Well, that's just my guess. We're going to hear more about that coming up.
HEMMER: All right. Also coming up here, Iraq officials are now officially setting January 30th as the date for national elections. Whether or not the reforms take place and work remains to be seen. In a few moments, we'll talk to the author of the book called, "What We Owe Iraq," about America's next move after the election, after his work in Iraq, and what ought to be done there. So, we'll have an interesting discussion in a moment here with Noah Feldman coming up on our show.
O'BRIEN: Other top stories this morning, we'll go to Carol Costello. She's at our news desk.
Hello. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I've made it the six blocks. Thanks, guys. Good morning, everyone.
In the news now, a gruesome discovery in central Falluja. U.S. military officials say they have apparently found a house, where British hostage Kenneth Bigley was executed last month. Iraqi forces were led to the site by a captured insurgent. Bigley was kidnapped in Baghdad on September 16, along with two American colleagues, who were also killed.
It looks like Iran is holding to an agreement with Europe and has defended uranium enrichment and nuclear-related activities. The move keeps Iran from facing possible U.N. sanctions. The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency says he believes all activity has stopped. Mohammed ElBaradei says his group will know more definitively by Thursday whether Iran has kept its promise. And here in the United States, some heavy fallout for the NBA players involved in Friday's brawl at the Pacers-Pistons game. The biggest penalty is against Indiana's Ron Artest, the first player to jump into the stands. He is out for the rest of the season, all 73 games. Teammate Stephen Jackson off of the court for 30 games. Jermaine O'Neal out for 25. Six other players got lesser suspensions. The NBA Players Union, though, is vowing to appeal some of the penalties, because, Soledad, they think they're excessive.
O'BRIEN: I don't know. You've see that videotape. That doesn't seem excessive to me. I mean, you see the ones where he clocked a fan right in the face.
COSTELLO: Oh, yes, there will be...
O'BRIEN: I mean, granted, the guy was on the floor.
COSTELLO: I bet there will be criminal charges filed because the prosecutor is looking into it. And the fans, aren't they to blame? Shouldn't they face some kind of penalty as well?
O'BRIEN: Like, so much money is going to pass hands, I think, change hands, between -- you know, because in the end, it's all about the lawsuits between the fans and some of the players. Forgot the 5 million he loses this year.
HEMMER: On the criminal side, though, you have two issues here: The players are in the stands where they should not be, and some of the fans...
O'BRIEN: No, the...
HEMMER: Some of the fans are on the court.
O'BRIEN: Oh, fans. Where they should not be.
HEMMER: ... where they should not be. So, maybe we'll hear later today from the D.A. out there.
COSTELLO: I'm sure we will.
HEMMER: Thanks, Carol.
O'BRIEN: It's going to get uglier. All right, thanks, Carol.
The AAA reports that a record number of travelers will be hitting the roads and the railways, taking to the skies also this holiday season.
CNN's Jason Carroll is live at La Guardia Airport in New York City with a little preview of what it's going to be like and also what it could cost you.
Hey, Jason, good morning.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad. Well, you know, industry experts expect about a 3 percent increase in the number of travelers overall. But what does that really mean? Well, that translates into longer lines, longer waits, no matter how you plan on traveling.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice over): The holiday travel season is always busy. But this year, expect the skies, roads and railways to be even more crowded. And expect some costs to be more, too. The Frost family found that out when planning their vacation to Honolulu.
CHERYL FROST, THANKSGIVING TRAVELER: We shopped on the Internet, and we tried to get good prices and did comparison shopping.
CARROLL (on camera): You found it was easier to fly just a little bit before Thanksgiving?
FROST: Right. And coming home a little bit later.
CARROLL (voice over): The Boscos found competitive prices to Orlando, but still a little steep for their budget.
NICK BOSCO, THANKSGIVING TRAVELER: I thank God that I have frequent flyer mileage and stuff like that. So, I've put all of our tickets on (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CARROLL: AAA estimates 37.2 million Americans will travel during the holidays, 3 percent more than last year. And for the first time since 9/11, slightly more than those who traveled in 2000, a record year. One reason? Blame the calendar.
AMY ZIFF, TRAVELOCITY WORKER: The holidays, the way they fall both on a weekend, essentially it's not fabulous for travelers, because that's going to do the same thing to Christmas that happens on Thanksgiving, which is people want to fly and take those two weekends.
CARROLL: Travel experts say another reason for the increase is families feel more confident about security. Add to the equation, airlines cutting some prices to remain competitive.
But if you're driving, gas prices are much higher than last year; same with hotel prices. Heading to a top five destination -- New York, Los Angeles, Orlando, Denver or Chicago -- it may cost more to get there and stay there than last year. Even so, customers keep coming.
GREG SAUNDERS, CHICAGO HYATT MANAGING DIRECTOR: We'll run the highest occupancy that we've run in the history of the hotel this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: According to AAA, 82 percent of all travelers will actually be traveling by car, and there's a bit of good news there. The price of rental cars is actually down this year by 2.7 percent -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Just a little bit a good news.
CARROLL: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Jason Carroll for us this morning. Jason, thanks.
Straight ahead at 9:00 Eastern Time, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge will fill us in on the state of national security as we head into the holidays -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, back overseas now. Iraq may still be a hotbed of violence, we know that. But officials have set officially a January 30th date for national elections. One hundred and twenty political parties are now vying for a say in Iraq's future.
Noah Feldman was an adviser to the Coalition Provisional Authority. His new book is called, "What We Owe Iraq." And Noah Feldman is my guest here in New York.
Good morning to you.
NOAH FELDMAN, AUTHOR, "WHAT WE OWE IRAQ": Good morning.
HEMMER: A coupe of matters in the news today I want to get your reaction to them. First of all, the date set for January 30. How significant is that at this point?
FELDMAN: It shows you the Shia, who are the majority in the country and want to have elections soon, are not prepared to compromise on timing. They want to go forward at the soonest possible date. This is very ambitious. It is not going to be easy to get elections going in the next couple of months.
HEMMER: The other issue today this is the debt relief that came out of the mid. Those countries that Iraq owes a lot of money, billions in fact, will now forgive much of that debt. How significant is that, do you believe, today?
FELDMAN: It's very important that it happened, because Iraq will have no chance of reconstructing itself if it has to labor under an enormous debt burden. On the other hand, it will not get us all the way there at all, because Iraq has a source of revenue, and that's its oil. But until there is security on the ground, they can't pump the oil. And that's where we've been for most of the last 18 months.
HEMMER: You have written a book here, and I want to touch on that, too. And there is a review in "The New York Times" about it, too. Part of it says, "The hope for democracy in the Middle East lies with devout Muslims." That's sort of contrary to opinion really in Iraq today. Who are you talking about who is devout in Iraq today who comes in that category?
FELDMAN: The best example is actually Ayatollah al-Sistani, who is the single-most influential religious figure in the whole country, and who is also the most influential pro-democracy figure in the whole country. He's the one who has been saying to us all along we need elections. We need them now. We need a real democracy. We don't just want to have one election and then chaos.
HEMMER: So, if you can get him into the fold others will follow?
FELDMAN: Well, he's certainly the biggest player in the game. And it does not mean that everyone in Iraq is pro-democracy. There are small numbers of people on the Shia side and larger numbers on the Sunni side who are fighting against democracy, some of them from an Islamic perspective.
But, you know, throughout the Muslim world we have seen that when there are free elections, people will choose a government that calls itself both Islamic and democratic at the same time, and that's a new trend.
HEMMER: Well, on the front page of "The Washington Post" today, there's a story that suggests that the military leaders in Iraq may need new troops to help quell the insurgency. At the same time, you can juxtapose this opinion by others who believe after elections at the end of January, the U.S. should essentially get out. How are we to marry these two thoughts going forward?
FELDMAN: We can't leave until there's actual security on the ground. An election is not going to create security, because if you even elect a government that a lot of people like -- and it remains far from certain that we're even going to do that -- you still have got the problem of actually having enough police and enough soldiers to control things. So, we're going to need more soldiers. It's not surprising to me at all to hear that commanders on the ground are saying so. And the crucial thing is that we step forward and actually give them what they need.
HEMMER: A colleague of mine, we e-mail each other quite often in Iraq, and I asked him if the U.S. can win this battle in Iraq. He said, take your pick. The insurgents are going to stop while the U.S. military is there, and the U.S. military is not leaving until the insurgents are wiped out. Is it the chicken or is it the egg?
FELDMAN: We need to stick it out long enough to convince the insurgents that they can't beat us, because as long as they think they can win, they're going to keep it up. And that's going to mean a quasi from the insurgency.
HEMMER: Which means you go from Falluja to Ramadi and you don't stop or let up the gas.
FELDMAN: You can't let up. That's one of the reasons that we probably are going to need more troops. You also need to provide a political option for the insurgents. It's not enough just to beat them militarily. You also have to give them some kind of a carrot to say come on into the political process. Otherwise, there's a real chance that they'll just keep up the insurgency up indefinitely.
HEMMER: January 30 is the date to circle on the calendar. Noah Feldman, thanks for your time this morning. FELDMAN: Thanks for having me.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Here in this country in Wisconsin, a dispute over a hunting spot led to the deaths of five people. Authorities arrested a man suspected of fatally shooting five hunters and wounding three others yesterday.
Officials say the suspect fired at two hunters who asked him to get down from their tree stand. The suspect then reportedly shot hunters who arrived to help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM ZEIGLE, SAWYER COUNTY CHIEF DEPUTY: Why? I mean, five people dead because somebody was trespassing on property? It makes no sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The dead include a teenage boy and a woman. Authorities say the suspect, who has been identified as 36-year-old Chi Veng (ph), is from the Minneapolis area.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, Donald Trump looks to overhaul his casinos. But should somebody tell him, you're fired?
HEMMER: Also, Ozzy Osbourne is now saying enough is enough. About what, though? We'll explain in a moment as we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. It's time to check in with Jack for the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Soledad.
For the record, here's the scorecard, the number of days since the 9/11 Commission report: 123. Recommendations adopted by Congress: nada.
Congress has gone home for the Thanksgiving holiday without passing a bill to restructure U.S. intelligence despite the recommendations from the 9/11 Commission. The cover story put out by conservative Republicans that are standing in the way is it's all about national security. Well, don't kid yourself. It's about the money.
The Pentagon controls $40 billion of the intelligence budget, and Secretary Rumsfeld wants to keep it.
Here's the question: What ought be done about the stalemate over the 9/11 Commission report?
Johnny in New Orleans, Louisiana: "It's a shame a few power- hunger, blustery individuals are preventing Americans from the safety we deserve. What should be done? The only thing that can be done, President Bush has to step up to the plate, rein in those whacko Republicans and put safety above partisanship. We should all expect no less."
Rick in Brooklyn writes: "The Bush administration has stonewalled the commission since its inception. There is no reason to believe the new Congress will embrace it anymore than they have. Get used to it."
Jazelle (ph) in New London, Wisconsin: "Fire them all and start over. Let's start making our legislators answer to us instead of their parties and personal interests and petty squabbles and power trips."
The problem with this is we just had an election, and most of the incumbents get voted back in. If you don't like the way these people are doing business, vote for somebody else. You know, we vote in all of the incumbents.
The last one that we're getting a lot of mail about, Steven in Remington Shores, Florida: "I don't know about the 9/11 Commission comment, but a suggestion is to have Charles Barkley fill in for you the next time you take a vacation. I want to see what happens if Bill throws a cup of ice on him."
A lot of viewers are suggesting...
O'BRIEN: I want to see that, too.
CAFFERTY: A lot of viewers are suggesting Charles Barkley might not have been the perfect selection to comment about player violence toward fans in the NBA...
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Right. Well, he did have...
CAFFERTY: ... given his record and his general attitude about things.
SERWER: He said he would beat the hell out of Bill Hemmer.
O'BRIEN: Yes, a couple times actually.
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: He would do if Bill hemmer threw a cup of ice on him.
HEMMER: Come on, Andy.
CAFFERTY: He works for this company, doesn't he?
HEMMER: Yes, he does.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: A commentator down in Atlanta.
CAFFERTY: Yes, a lot of people didn't care for what he had to say.
HEMMER: Ultimately, though, the one question though, is, what do you do about restraining half of the players? Those players have a heck of a lot more to lose than Joe Blow fan who comes to a game on Saturday night.
CAFFERTY: If you're stupid enough to wade into the stands and take a swing at some beered-up, fat slob in the second row, and put your $10 million salary in jeopardy, you deserve to lose the money. He should be fired from the league, period. Discussion over. Throw him out. And I'll make you a bet the next time one of them gets moved to do that, they'll probably decide maybe it's better to sit in the seat and keep cashing the checks.
O'BRIEN: The money that they're going to pay to those fans due to lawsuits.
CAFFERTY: He's a moron, OK?
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Just a moron. He's going to lose $6 million for belting some beered-up fan? He's an idiot.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes. You're welcome.
HEMMER: It's Andy over here.
CAFFERTY: I'll be right here the rest of the hour if you need anything.
O'BRIEN: Do you want to weigh in on anything else before we let you go?
SERWER: I thought he was going to hit me.
HEMMER: Yes. Keep your ice in your own cup.
SERWER: I'm not throwing any ice on Jack. No way!
HEMMER: Let's talk about Donald Trump. Is he in trouble on the casino side?
SERWER: He is. He's bankrupt. The Donald, the Teflon Donald Trump, his casino company, as expected on Sunday, declared bankruptcy. And, of course, this is a guy who has a business shows that tells all of the rests of us how to do business, which is pretty amazing.
The second time this company has gone bankrupt. It went bankrupt in '92. This time, they're blaming the Borgata down there in Atlantic City competing against the Taj and all of the rest of that. His ownership in this company could shrink from 56 percent to 27 percent.
A couple of other points. Did you know that Donald Trump also owned a casino riverboat in Gary, Indiana? Maybe we should take a trip out there. It would be kind of fun.
Also, the Donald providing some fodder to Richard Branson this morning, I would think, because he had wrote a letter to Branson criticizing the British billionaire's reality show, saying you have no TV persona, Richard. Well, Donald, but you're bankrupt. So, you know, be careful of the stones that you're throwing.
O'BRIEN: And the hair, come on!
SERWER: Well, yes. I mean, it's a strange land here.
Let's do football really quickly. It was one of these weeks where all of the bad teams played all of the good teams. And I don't mean to say it was easy, Bill, but it was kind of easy.
HEMMER: Yes.
SERWER: Well, Jack doesn't make football picks. Jack stirs the pot on this program. That's what he does.
CAFFERTY: As evidenced by that chart.
SERWER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Clearly apparently.
HEMMER: Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: OK.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, Michael Jackson in more hot water. The king of pop's latest legal woes. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Doesn't this make you hearken back to the days when Michael Jackson was not quite so odd as he is now?
Welcome back, everybody. It's time now for the critically- acclaimed "90-Second Pop" with the AMERICAN MORNING idols. Andy Borowitz is ambassador of comedy at BorowitzReport.com. Sarah Bernard is contributing editor for "New York" magazine. And Toure is CNN's pop culture correspondent.
Good morning.
Let's play that again. I love that music. SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: "Pretty Young Thing?"
O'BRIEN: Isn't that great?
BERNARD: Oh!
TOURE, CNN POP CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: She likes it.
O'BRIEN: Oh, it hearkens back to eighth grade. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
BERNARD: How old was everybody when that song was a hit?
O'BRIEN: Oh, wait a minute. I was -- Michael Jackson is in the news, not for good reasons.
BERNARD: Again.
O'BRIEN: Not because (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is such a great song. But because he's being sued by somebody else. What's the story?
BERNARD: You know, every week we learn something new about Michael Jackson. Last week it was that not only did he owe somebody $3 million on unpaid loans, but he has terrible, terrible home decorating skills. He bought from a store in Los Angeles giant Grecian urns, a bust clock, I mean, these Malachite tables, horrible, horrible stuff. And not only that, he still owes them $180,000. So, the owner of the store is suing him because he can't pay his bills.
TOURE: The guy is the best reality show going. And it's like the money is dwindling now.
BERNARD: I know.
TOURE: It's going to get even better.
O'BRIEN: It's going to get ugly.
BERNARD: You know what's really bad? The same day that that store filed suit, his greatest hits "Box Set," which should have been, you know, a fantastic moment, came out on the same day. So that's Michael Jackson's life, right? The best thing and the worst thing.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Just one word for Michael Jackson: Ikea (ph).
BERNARD: Yes.
BOROWITZ: Really.
O'BRIEN: His bill from the furniture store was that all of this stuff was over $300,000.
BERNARD: And he managed to pay some of it.
O'BRIEN: You know, this is not the time to be buying furniture.
BOROWITZ: I don't know if his fans will stick by him through this.
O'BRIEN: He's bad decorator.
BERNARD: I mean...
BOROWITZ: We've been through a lot. I've been with him (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BERNARD: The furniture. I mean...
BOROWITZ: But you've got pay your furniture bills, Michael.
BERNARD: He probably needs (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: But the Malachite, no, no, no.
TOURE: I don't even what Malachite is.
O'BRIEN: It's ugly. Don't worry about it.
BERNARD: It's bad.
O'BRIEN: Alexander, who knew he's gay?
TOURE: Oh, my God. What a shocker. I mean, you know, this movie, you know, with Colin Ferrell and his little gay scenes, the movie should do just fine. In the blue states, we understand, there's nothing wrong with being gay. I mean, like, this is part of the whole sort of referendum that the country is having right now. We are being tested on whether or not being gay is OK and you can be a full citizen. And right now, we are failing, but we'll get there.
O'BRIEN: Well, we just took a big political (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BERNARD: Well, what...
BOROWITZ: What was the topic? I'm lost.
O'BRIEN: "Alexander" opens. Oliver Stone says he was openly bisexual.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: And the interesting thing about that is some group of, I think, 25 Greek lawyers are actually threatening to sue Warner Brothers, because they want Oliver Stone to put a line at the end of the movie that says, this is a work of fiction; that it's not necessarily historically true. I mean, does he understand this is not a documentary? I mean, this is a movie.
O'BRIEN: Every movie Oliver Stone make, everyone is like it's not a documentary.
BERNARD: He never said he was going to do a documentary.
BOROWITZ: I mean, there was that whole bisexual things in Nixon. I remember that.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: It was an asexual theme.
BERNARD: Actually, I mean, the movie has an unbelievable heterosexual sex scene between Colin Farrell and Rosario Dawson.
O'BRIEN: No one is talking about that.
TOURE: Right, right.
BERNARD: No one is talking about that!
BOROWITZ: This is a date movie for everybody. That's what it is. It's going to rule.
BERNARD: I don't know about his really bad blonde-dye job.
TOURE: There you go.
O'BRIEN: The hairdo.
BERNARD: Yes, yes.
O'BRIEN: Ozzy Osbourne, no more. Calling it quits.
BOROWITZ: No more.
O'BRIEN: Now, you're all broken up about it.
BOROWITZ: You know, I am a huge fan of "The Osbournes," especially the first season I thought it was maybe the best show on TV. Then it kind of tailed off a little. But once they became sort of a show about being a reality star...
TOURE: Yes.
BOROWITZ: ... it was less interesting. But you know what? I think he's going out on top. I think he said, you know, he had accomplished everything he set out to be, which, I guess, means he finally got that trash can liner for the trashcan after trying 500 times.
BERNARD: I didn't even know it was still on.
BOROWITZ: Well, that's the problem. It was such a cool show.
TOURE: Yes. It didn't go out with a bang. It's kind of just whimpered out.
BOROWITZ: Yes. TOURE: But, I mean, like, it was one of the great reality shows of its era. And it just proved, to me at least, that it's about a family. It's not about two stars, right? It's not about, like, a couple people who are known. It's about a family working together, fighting together. That's what we love to see.
BERNARD: Does this mean that Kelly Osbourne is not going to have another album?
TOURE: No, no, she's not going anywhere.
BERNARD: I'm going to die if that's true.
BOROWITZ: Does this mean Jack will never have anything?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: That's what Jack...
O'BRIEN: Yes, the implications we can talk about for centuries to come. You guys, as always, thank you.
Bill -- back to you.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
In a moment here, the top stories this morning. And the NBA is coming down hard for that Friday night brawl. Does the punishment fit the crime? Back in a moment, top of the hour here on a Monday edition after this.
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Aired November 22, 2004 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
The holiday travel season, we're talking about it again.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
O'BRIEN: It begins this week. We're going to take a look at what you can expect as the nation's airports get more and more crowded and all of the highways start to clog up. Time, money, how much should you set aside? My guess is a lot.
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Well, that's just my guess. We're going to hear more about that coming up.
HEMMER: All right. Also coming up here, Iraq officials are now officially setting January 30th as the date for national elections. Whether or not the reforms take place and work remains to be seen. In a few moments, we'll talk to the author of the book called, "What We Owe Iraq," about America's next move after the election, after his work in Iraq, and what ought to be done there. So, we'll have an interesting discussion in a moment here with Noah Feldman coming up on our show.
O'BRIEN: Other top stories this morning, we'll go to Carol Costello. She's at our news desk.
Hello. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I've made it the six blocks. Thanks, guys. Good morning, everyone.
In the news now, a gruesome discovery in central Falluja. U.S. military officials say they have apparently found a house, where British hostage Kenneth Bigley was executed last month. Iraqi forces were led to the site by a captured insurgent. Bigley was kidnapped in Baghdad on September 16, along with two American colleagues, who were also killed.
It looks like Iran is holding to an agreement with Europe and has defended uranium enrichment and nuclear-related activities. The move keeps Iran from facing possible U.N. sanctions. The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency says he believes all activity has stopped. Mohammed ElBaradei says his group will know more definitively by Thursday whether Iran has kept its promise. And here in the United States, some heavy fallout for the NBA players involved in Friday's brawl at the Pacers-Pistons game. The biggest penalty is against Indiana's Ron Artest, the first player to jump into the stands. He is out for the rest of the season, all 73 games. Teammate Stephen Jackson off of the court for 30 games. Jermaine O'Neal out for 25. Six other players got lesser suspensions. The NBA Players Union, though, is vowing to appeal some of the penalties, because, Soledad, they think they're excessive.
O'BRIEN: I don't know. You've see that videotape. That doesn't seem excessive to me. I mean, you see the ones where he clocked a fan right in the face.
COSTELLO: Oh, yes, there will be...
O'BRIEN: I mean, granted, the guy was on the floor.
COSTELLO: I bet there will be criminal charges filed because the prosecutor is looking into it. And the fans, aren't they to blame? Shouldn't they face some kind of penalty as well?
O'BRIEN: Like, so much money is going to pass hands, I think, change hands, between -- you know, because in the end, it's all about the lawsuits between the fans and some of the players. Forgot the 5 million he loses this year.
HEMMER: On the criminal side, though, you have two issues here: The players are in the stands where they should not be, and some of the fans...
O'BRIEN: No, the...
HEMMER: Some of the fans are on the court.
O'BRIEN: Oh, fans. Where they should not be.
HEMMER: ... where they should not be. So, maybe we'll hear later today from the D.A. out there.
COSTELLO: I'm sure we will.
HEMMER: Thanks, Carol.
O'BRIEN: It's going to get uglier. All right, thanks, Carol.
The AAA reports that a record number of travelers will be hitting the roads and the railways, taking to the skies also this holiday season.
CNN's Jason Carroll is live at La Guardia Airport in New York City with a little preview of what it's going to be like and also what it could cost you.
Hey, Jason, good morning.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad. Well, you know, industry experts expect about a 3 percent increase in the number of travelers overall. But what does that really mean? Well, that translates into longer lines, longer waits, no matter how you plan on traveling.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice over): The holiday travel season is always busy. But this year, expect the skies, roads and railways to be even more crowded. And expect some costs to be more, too. The Frost family found that out when planning their vacation to Honolulu.
CHERYL FROST, THANKSGIVING TRAVELER: We shopped on the Internet, and we tried to get good prices and did comparison shopping.
CARROLL (on camera): You found it was easier to fly just a little bit before Thanksgiving?
FROST: Right. And coming home a little bit later.
CARROLL (voice over): The Boscos found competitive prices to Orlando, but still a little steep for their budget.
NICK BOSCO, THANKSGIVING TRAVELER: I thank God that I have frequent flyer mileage and stuff like that. So, I've put all of our tickets on (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CARROLL: AAA estimates 37.2 million Americans will travel during the holidays, 3 percent more than last year. And for the first time since 9/11, slightly more than those who traveled in 2000, a record year. One reason? Blame the calendar.
AMY ZIFF, TRAVELOCITY WORKER: The holidays, the way they fall both on a weekend, essentially it's not fabulous for travelers, because that's going to do the same thing to Christmas that happens on Thanksgiving, which is people want to fly and take those two weekends.
CARROLL: Travel experts say another reason for the increase is families feel more confident about security. Add to the equation, airlines cutting some prices to remain competitive.
But if you're driving, gas prices are much higher than last year; same with hotel prices. Heading to a top five destination -- New York, Los Angeles, Orlando, Denver or Chicago -- it may cost more to get there and stay there than last year. Even so, customers keep coming.
GREG SAUNDERS, CHICAGO HYATT MANAGING DIRECTOR: We'll run the highest occupancy that we've run in the history of the hotel this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: According to AAA, 82 percent of all travelers will actually be traveling by car, and there's a bit of good news there. The price of rental cars is actually down this year by 2.7 percent -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Just a little bit a good news.
CARROLL: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Jason Carroll for us this morning. Jason, thanks.
Straight ahead at 9:00 Eastern Time, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge will fill us in on the state of national security as we head into the holidays -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, back overseas now. Iraq may still be a hotbed of violence, we know that. But officials have set officially a January 30th date for national elections. One hundred and twenty political parties are now vying for a say in Iraq's future.
Noah Feldman was an adviser to the Coalition Provisional Authority. His new book is called, "What We Owe Iraq." And Noah Feldman is my guest here in New York.
Good morning to you.
NOAH FELDMAN, AUTHOR, "WHAT WE OWE IRAQ": Good morning.
HEMMER: A coupe of matters in the news today I want to get your reaction to them. First of all, the date set for January 30. How significant is that at this point?
FELDMAN: It shows you the Shia, who are the majority in the country and want to have elections soon, are not prepared to compromise on timing. They want to go forward at the soonest possible date. This is very ambitious. It is not going to be easy to get elections going in the next couple of months.
HEMMER: The other issue today this is the debt relief that came out of the mid. Those countries that Iraq owes a lot of money, billions in fact, will now forgive much of that debt. How significant is that, do you believe, today?
FELDMAN: It's very important that it happened, because Iraq will have no chance of reconstructing itself if it has to labor under an enormous debt burden. On the other hand, it will not get us all the way there at all, because Iraq has a source of revenue, and that's its oil. But until there is security on the ground, they can't pump the oil. And that's where we've been for most of the last 18 months.
HEMMER: You have written a book here, and I want to touch on that, too. And there is a review in "The New York Times" about it, too. Part of it says, "The hope for democracy in the Middle East lies with devout Muslims." That's sort of contrary to opinion really in Iraq today. Who are you talking about who is devout in Iraq today who comes in that category?
FELDMAN: The best example is actually Ayatollah al-Sistani, who is the single-most influential religious figure in the whole country, and who is also the most influential pro-democracy figure in the whole country. He's the one who has been saying to us all along we need elections. We need them now. We need a real democracy. We don't just want to have one election and then chaos.
HEMMER: So, if you can get him into the fold others will follow?
FELDMAN: Well, he's certainly the biggest player in the game. And it does not mean that everyone in Iraq is pro-democracy. There are small numbers of people on the Shia side and larger numbers on the Sunni side who are fighting against democracy, some of them from an Islamic perspective.
But, you know, throughout the Muslim world we have seen that when there are free elections, people will choose a government that calls itself both Islamic and democratic at the same time, and that's a new trend.
HEMMER: Well, on the front page of "The Washington Post" today, there's a story that suggests that the military leaders in Iraq may need new troops to help quell the insurgency. At the same time, you can juxtapose this opinion by others who believe after elections at the end of January, the U.S. should essentially get out. How are we to marry these two thoughts going forward?
FELDMAN: We can't leave until there's actual security on the ground. An election is not going to create security, because if you even elect a government that a lot of people like -- and it remains far from certain that we're even going to do that -- you still have got the problem of actually having enough police and enough soldiers to control things. So, we're going to need more soldiers. It's not surprising to me at all to hear that commanders on the ground are saying so. And the crucial thing is that we step forward and actually give them what they need.
HEMMER: A colleague of mine, we e-mail each other quite often in Iraq, and I asked him if the U.S. can win this battle in Iraq. He said, take your pick. The insurgents are going to stop while the U.S. military is there, and the U.S. military is not leaving until the insurgents are wiped out. Is it the chicken or is it the egg?
FELDMAN: We need to stick it out long enough to convince the insurgents that they can't beat us, because as long as they think they can win, they're going to keep it up. And that's going to mean a quasi from the insurgency.
HEMMER: Which means you go from Falluja to Ramadi and you don't stop or let up the gas.
FELDMAN: You can't let up. That's one of the reasons that we probably are going to need more troops. You also need to provide a political option for the insurgents. It's not enough just to beat them militarily. You also have to give them some kind of a carrot to say come on into the political process. Otherwise, there's a real chance that they'll just keep up the insurgency up indefinitely.
HEMMER: January 30 is the date to circle on the calendar. Noah Feldman, thanks for your time this morning. FELDMAN: Thanks for having me.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Here in this country in Wisconsin, a dispute over a hunting spot led to the deaths of five people. Authorities arrested a man suspected of fatally shooting five hunters and wounding three others yesterday.
Officials say the suspect fired at two hunters who asked him to get down from their tree stand. The suspect then reportedly shot hunters who arrived to help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM ZEIGLE, SAWYER COUNTY CHIEF DEPUTY: Why? I mean, five people dead because somebody was trespassing on property? It makes no sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The dead include a teenage boy and a woman. Authorities say the suspect, who has been identified as 36-year-old Chi Veng (ph), is from the Minneapolis area.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, Donald Trump looks to overhaul his casinos. But should somebody tell him, you're fired?
HEMMER: Also, Ozzy Osbourne is now saying enough is enough. About what, though? We'll explain in a moment as we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. It's time to check in with Jack for the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Soledad.
For the record, here's the scorecard, the number of days since the 9/11 Commission report: 123. Recommendations adopted by Congress: nada.
Congress has gone home for the Thanksgiving holiday without passing a bill to restructure U.S. intelligence despite the recommendations from the 9/11 Commission. The cover story put out by conservative Republicans that are standing in the way is it's all about national security. Well, don't kid yourself. It's about the money.
The Pentagon controls $40 billion of the intelligence budget, and Secretary Rumsfeld wants to keep it.
Here's the question: What ought be done about the stalemate over the 9/11 Commission report?
Johnny in New Orleans, Louisiana: "It's a shame a few power- hunger, blustery individuals are preventing Americans from the safety we deserve. What should be done? The only thing that can be done, President Bush has to step up to the plate, rein in those whacko Republicans and put safety above partisanship. We should all expect no less."
Rick in Brooklyn writes: "The Bush administration has stonewalled the commission since its inception. There is no reason to believe the new Congress will embrace it anymore than they have. Get used to it."
Jazelle (ph) in New London, Wisconsin: "Fire them all and start over. Let's start making our legislators answer to us instead of their parties and personal interests and petty squabbles and power trips."
The problem with this is we just had an election, and most of the incumbents get voted back in. If you don't like the way these people are doing business, vote for somebody else. You know, we vote in all of the incumbents.
The last one that we're getting a lot of mail about, Steven in Remington Shores, Florida: "I don't know about the 9/11 Commission comment, but a suggestion is to have Charles Barkley fill in for you the next time you take a vacation. I want to see what happens if Bill throws a cup of ice on him."
A lot of viewers are suggesting...
O'BRIEN: I want to see that, too.
CAFFERTY: A lot of viewers are suggesting Charles Barkley might not have been the perfect selection to comment about player violence toward fans in the NBA...
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Right. Well, he did have...
CAFFERTY: ... given his record and his general attitude about things.
SERWER: He said he would beat the hell out of Bill Hemmer.
O'BRIEN: Yes, a couple times actually.
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: He would do if Bill hemmer threw a cup of ice on him.
HEMMER: Come on, Andy.
CAFFERTY: He works for this company, doesn't he?
HEMMER: Yes, he does.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: A commentator down in Atlanta.
CAFFERTY: Yes, a lot of people didn't care for what he had to say.
HEMMER: Ultimately, though, the one question though, is, what do you do about restraining half of the players? Those players have a heck of a lot more to lose than Joe Blow fan who comes to a game on Saturday night.
CAFFERTY: If you're stupid enough to wade into the stands and take a swing at some beered-up, fat slob in the second row, and put your $10 million salary in jeopardy, you deserve to lose the money. He should be fired from the league, period. Discussion over. Throw him out. And I'll make you a bet the next time one of them gets moved to do that, they'll probably decide maybe it's better to sit in the seat and keep cashing the checks.
O'BRIEN: The money that they're going to pay to those fans due to lawsuits.
CAFFERTY: He's a moron, OK?
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Just a moron. He's going to lose $6 million for belting some beered-up fan? He's an idiot.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes. You're welcome.
HEMMER: It's Andy over here.
CAFFERTY: I'll be right here the rest of the hour if you need anything.
O'BRIEN: Do you want to weigh in on anything else before we let you go?
SERWER: I thought he was going to hit me.
HEMMER: Yes. Keep your ice in your own cup.
SERWER: I'm not throwing any ice on Jack. No way!
HEMMER: Let's talk about Donald Trump. Is he in trouble on the casino side?
SERWER: He is. He's bankrupt. The Donald, the Teflon Donald Trump, his casino company, as expected on Sunday, declared bankruptcy. And, of course, this is a guy who has a business shows that tells all of the rests of us how to do business, which is pretty amazing.
The second time this company has gone bankrupt. It went bankrupt in '92. This time, they're blaming the Borgata down there in Atlantic City competing against the Taj and all of the rest of that. His ownership in this company could shrink from 56 percent to 27 percent.
A couple of other points. Did you know that Donald Trump also owned a casino riverboat in Gary, Indiana? Maybe we should take a trip out there. It would be kind of fun.
Also, the Donald providing some fodder to Richard Branson this morning, I would think, because he had wrote a letter to Branson criticizing the British billionaire's reality show, saying you have no TV persona, Richard. Well, Donald, but you're bankrupt. So, you know, be careful of the stones that you're throwing.
O'BRIEN: And the hair, come on!
SERWER: Well, yes. I mean, it's a strange land here.
Let's do football really quickly. It was one of these weeks where all of the bad teams played all of the good teams. And I don't mean to say it was easy, Bill, but it was kind of easy.
HEMMER: Yes.
SERWER: Well, Jack doesn't make football picks. Jack stirs the pot on this program. That's what he does.
CAFFERTY: As evidenced by that chart.
SERWER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Clearly apparently.
HEMMER: Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: OK.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, Michael Jackson in more hot water. The king of pop's latest legal woes. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Doesn't this make you hearken back to the days when Michael Jackson was not quite so odd as he is now?
Welcome back, everybody. It's time now for the critically- acclaimed "90-Second Pop" with the AMERICAN MORNING idols. Andy Borowitz is ambassador of comedy at BorowitzReport.com. Sarah Bernard is contributing editor for "New York" magazine. And Toure is CNN's pop culture correspondent.
Good morning.
Let's play that again. I love that music. SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: "Pretty Young Thing?"
O'BRIEN: Isn't that great?
BERNARD: Oh!
TOURE, CNN POP CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: She likes it.
O'BRIEN: Oh, it hearkens back to eighth grade. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
BERNARD: How old was everybody when that song was a hit?
O'BRIEN: Oh, wait a minute. I was -- Michael Jackson is in the news, not for good reasons.
BERNARD: Again.
O'BRIEN: Not because (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is such a great song. But because he's being sued by somebody else. What's the story?
BERNARD: You know, every week we learn something new about Michael Jackson. Last week it was that not only did he owe somebody $3 million on unpaid loans, but he has terrible, terrible home decorating skills. He bought from a store in Los Angeles giant Grecian urns, a bust clock, I mean, these Malachite tables, horrible, horrible stuff. And not only that, he still owes them $180,000. So, the owner of the store is suing him because he can't pay his bills.
TOURE: The guy is the best reality show going. And it's like the money is dwindling now.
BERNARD: I know.
TOURE: It's going to get even better.
O'BRIEN: It's going to get ugly.
BERNARD: You know what's really bad? The same day that that store filed suit, his greatest hits "Box Set," which should have been, you know, a fantastic moment, came out on the same day. So that's Michael Jackson's life, right? The best thing and the worst thing.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Just one word for Michael Jackson: Ikea (ph).
BERNARD: Yes.
BOROWITZ: Really.
O'BRIEN: His bill from the furniture store was that all of this stuff was over $300,000.
BERNARD: And he managed to pay some of it.
O'BRIEN: You know, this is not the time to be buying furniture.
BOROWITZ: I don't know if his fans will stick by him through this.
O'BRIEN: He's bad decorator.
BERNARD: I mean...
BOROWITZ: We've been through a lot. I've been with him (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BERNARD: The furniture. I mean...
BOROWITZ: But you've got pay your furniture bills, Michael.
BERNARD: He probably needs (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: But the Malachite, no, no, no.
TOURE: I don't even what Malachite is.
O'BRIEN: It's ugly. Don't worry about it.
BERNARD: It's bad.
O'BRIEN: Alexander, who knew he's gay?
TOURE: Oh, my God. What a shocker. I mean, you know, this movie, you know, with Colin Ferrell and his little gay scenes, the movie should do just fine. In the blue states, we understand, there's nothing wrong with being gay. I mean, like, this is part of the whole sort of referendum that the country is having right now. We are being tested on whether or not being gay is OK and you can be a full citizen. And right now, we are failing, but we'll get there.
O'BRIEN: Well, we just took a big political (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BERNARD: Well, what...
BOROWITZ: What was the topic? I'm lost.
O'BRIEN: "Alexander" opens. Oliver Stone says he was openly bisexual.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: And the interesting thing about that is some group of, I think, 25 Greek lawyers are actually threatening to sue Warner Brothers, because they want Oliver Stone to put a line at the end of the movie that says, this is a work of fiction; that it's not necessarily historically true. I mean, does he understand this is not a documentary? I mean, this is a movie.
O'BRIEN: Every movie Oliver Stone make, everyone is like it's not a documentary.
BERNARD: He never said he was going to do a documentary.
BOROWITZ: I mean, there was that whole bisexual things in Nixon. I remember that.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: It was an asexual theme.
BERNARD: Actually, I mean, the movie has an unbelievable heterosexual sex scene between Colin Farrell and Rosario Dawson.
O'BRIEN: No one is talking about that.
TOURE: Right, right.
BERNARD: No one is talking about that!
BOROWITZ: This is a date movie for everybody. That's what it is. It's going to rule.
BERNARD: I don't know about his really bad blonde-dye job.
TOURE: There you go.
O'BRIEN: The hairdo.
BERNARD: Yes, yes.
O'BRIEN: Ozzy Osbourne, no more. Calling it quits.
BOROWITZ: No more.
O'BRIEN: Now, you're all broken up about it.
BOROWITZ: You know, I am a huge fan of "The Osbournes," especially the first season I thought it was maybe the best show on TV. Then it kind of tailed off a little. But once they became sort of a show about being a reality star...
TOURE: Yes.
BOROWITZ: ... it was less interesting. But you know what? I think he's going out on top. I think he said, you know, he had accomplished everything he set out to be, which, I guess, means he finally got that trash can liner for the trashcan after trying 500 times.
BERNARD: I didn't even know it was still on.
BOROWITZ: Well, that's the problem. It was such a cool show.
TOURE: Yes. It didn't go out with a bang. It's kind of just whimpered out.
BOROWITZ: Yes. TOURE: But, I mean, like, it was one of the great reality shows of its era. And it just proved, to me at least, that it's about a family. It's not about two stars, right? It's not about, like, a couple people who are known. It's about a family working together, fighting together. That's what we love to see.
BERNARD: Does this mean that Kelly Osbourne is not going to have another album?
TOURE: No, no, she's not going anywhere.
BERNARD: I'm going to die if that's true.
BOROWITZ: Does this mean Jack will never have anything?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: That's what Jack...
O'BRIEN: Yes, the implications we can talk about for centuries to come. You guys, as always, thank you.
Bill -- back to you.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
In a moment here, the top stories this morning. And the NBA is coming down hard for that Friday night brawl. Does the punishment fit the crime? Back in a moment, top of the hour here on a Monday edition after this.
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