The Web      Powered by
powered by Yahoo!


Return to Transcripts main page


Rather Steps Down; Airport Security Patdowns Have Some Women Outraged; Mother Cuts Off Baby's Arms

Aired November 23, 2004 - 19:00   ET


HEIDI COLLINS, HOST: A shakeup at CBS. Is it the beginning of the end for network news?
360 starts now.

Under fire. CBS News anchor Dan rather decides to give up his chair. What does this mean for network news?

Your private parts not to private. Why airport security pat- downs have some women outraged.

A deadly image caught on tape. An Israeli soldier accused of opening fire on a 13-year-old girl. What really happened?

Who has the final say on your living will when your life is hanging in the balance, your spouse or your doctors?

The Goldmans tell O.J. Simpson to pay up, but O.J. has a message of his own.

And a mother turned murderer. What drove her to cut off her baby's arms?

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COLLINS: Good evening, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins, in for Anderson Cooper.

We begin tonight with a surprising, though perhaps not entirely unexpected, announcement. After decades in the public eye, the last couple of them at the center the CBS eye, Dan Rather, one of this country's most visible newscasters, is calling it quits. The television landscape is changing.

Jason Carroll reports.




(END VIDEO CLIP) JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For nearly 24 years, Dan Rather sat in that coveted chair as anchor of "The CBS Evening News." During a meeting Tuesday afternoon at CBS headquarters, Rather told those he has worked closely with over the years the time had come to give up the chair.


RATHER: It has been and remains an honor to be welcomed into your home each evening, and I thank you for the trust you've given me.


ANDY ROONEY, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: I think it's a good thing to do. He's about 15 years after Cronkite stepped down, that much older, so he's had a good run, and it's been great.

CARROLL: Rather's contract ran until 2006. Now, his last day as anchor is March 9, 2005, 24 years to the day since he took over.

A bittersweet ending, according to his agent, who says Rather decided in part timing was right because he had gotten through another election cycle.

Discussions about his departure heated up this past summer, months before the release of a "60 Minutes" story in which Rather and the network came under intense fire. The story alleged President Bush received special treatment to get him out of duties while serving in the Texas Air National Guard. Initially, Rather stood by the story and its source.

RATHER: The story is true, and the questions raised in the story are serious and legitimate questions.

CARROLL: In the end, CBS admitted it could not authenticate the document they had heavily based their story on.


RATHER: I want to say personally and directly, I'm sorry.


CARROLL: The incident is still under review.

MARC BERMAN, "MEDIA WEEK": That might have led to his exit earlier than he was going to leave. But I think people also realize that people make mistakes, and things happen. I don't think that's going to tarnish him at all.

CARROLL: Overall, the 73-year-old has had a distinguished career in journalism. His plans now, work primarily for "60 Minutes" until his contract runs out.


COLLINS: So, Jason, any idea yet tonight now who might take over that coveted chair?

CARROLL: Well, there's been a lot of speculation about that, Heidi. At the top of the list, definitely CBS News correspondent John Roberts, his name being thrown about a lot. Also "60 Minutes" correspondent Scott Pelley, his name being thrown around as well. Most media analysts expect some sort of announcement to be made fairly soon, Heidi.

COLLINS: Jason, thanks so much for that.

And to talk some more now about what Dan Rather stepping down may mean, we are joined in Pittsburgh by Jeff Alan, himself a longtime anchor and news director, and the author of "Anchoring America: The Changing Face of Network News."

Jeff, thanks for being with us tonight.

JEFF ALAN, AUTHOR, "ANCHORING AMERICA": Well, good evening, Heidi. How are you?

COLLINS: I'm great. Why do you think this announcement is happening now?

ALAN: Well, you know, there's a lot of speculation about this. Of course, look at the timing. And it's a little bit suspicious, because they were going to issue their report, as you remember, they hired Dick Thornburgh and another gentleman to do an independent study on what happened with those memos now being called Memogate, I guess, and Dan Rather and how he treated the entire affair.

Well, that was supposed to be made public right around now. They were going to wait till after the election. So the timing of Dan's resignation is a little bit suspicious today, at least for my money.

COLLINS: Yes, in fact, the CBS nightly news ratings were running a distant third. There was a recent reporting scandal we talked about. Was there any way that Rather could have stayed longer?

ALAN: Well, you know, that's a lot of speculation also. And here's the reason. First of all, if I can take just a minute to explain this, in 1982, when they three gentlemen -- Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, and Dan Rather -- took over, there were no remote controls sold with television sets. They just -- you had to pay extra for them, which you don't have to do today.

CNN was in its infancy. You were less than a year old at that time.

COLLINS: I remember.

ALAN: And -- that's right. And there were really only five, six, 10 channels in most households. They didn't have cable yet. They didn't even have satellite. Satellite wasn't even available.

So people made an appointment to go watch that 5:30 or 6:30 network newscast every night to get their national news. Well, OK, fast-forward now to 2004, and all of a sudden, you can get your news from anywhere. You get it from CNN, any of the other cable news sources, you can get it from the Internet. I read a study, a lot of the younger people even get it from "The Daily Show" on Comedy Central, believe it or not. It's even coming into your cell phones now.

So the audiences have dwindled, and over the years, Dan Rather's ratings have gone to a very distant third behind Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings, who...


ALAN: ... sort of duke it out for that number one spot. So CBS as a business decision had to make a change. I don't think that the timing would have been much more than a few months from now if it didn't happen today.

COLLINS: All right. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), there's also another issue out there too, I think, Jeff. In fact, we have a percentage to share with you from a Gallup poll. Just 44 percent of Americans expressed confidence in the media's ability to report the news accurately and fairly. So how do you think the industry repairs the credibility with the American people now?

ALAN: Boy, it's hard, you know? When you get to news organizations the size of CNN or the other cable news channels or CBS, NBC, or ABC, I think everybody works very, very hard. I know many people in your newsroom, as a matter of fact, and I know they work very, very diligently all day long to make sure their stories are accurate and they're credible.

But things begin slipping through the cracks with the competition. People are really overanxious to get their stories on the air. And from small-market television all the way up now to what's seemingly CBS, people are in such a hurry to beat their competition, they're putting things on the air that would make Edward R. Murrow turn over in his grave.

COLLINS: Hate to hear that. Jeff Alan, we certainly appreciate your insight tonight. Thanks so much.

ALAN: No problem. Thanks.

COLLINS: A conference is currently under way in Egypt attended by representatives of the 20 or so countries that are Iraq's neighbors, as well as by China, the U.N., the European Union, and, for the United States, Secretary of State Colin Powell, who spoke exclusively today there at Sharm al-Sheikh conference with CNN chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.


CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Perhaps the most dramatic thing about this conference here in Sharm al-Sheikh is that it happened at all, because amongst the participants here were many of the countries which disagreed very, very strongly with the U.S. over the war in Iraq. And now they were coming to try to put their differences behind them and seek to resolve the political aspect and try to get Iraq back on some kind of stable footing.

The linchpin of the American strategy are the elections scheduled for January 30, and we interviewed Secretary of State Colin Powell and asked him what would happen if, in the Sunni parts of Iraq, where the insurgency is rife, what would happen if the Sunnis could not participate in these elections? Wouldn't that cast a doubt on the legitimacy of the elections?

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: There are still 60-plus days to go before we get to the election, and it is our intention to create conditions throughout the whole countryside so that all parts of Iraq can participate in the election.

AMANPOUR: Earlier we had talked to the British foreign secretary, Jack Straw. And he did admit to us that if all Iraqis couldn't participate, that would, at the very least, cast a doubt on the legitimacy of the elections, and, at the worst, continue the ability of the insurgency to disrupt Iraq and its future.

We also asked Secretary Powell about his tenure as secretary of state now that he's departing. He told us -- and he tried to say that what had happened over the last four years was that the Bush administration had, in fact, pursued a multilateralist foreign policy.

POWELL: If you look at what he has done, it has been a foreign policy of reaching out to allies, it's been a foreign policy of partnership, the expansion of NATO, the expansion of the European Union that we worked on, the multilateral approach we were taking to Iran.

There are no American armies marching on Tehran. We're working with the E.U. three, we're working with the IAEA...

AMANPOUR: Will there be?

POWELL: The approach -- Of course not. The approach we took -- We never take any option off the table. But, you see, why would you suggest that? You don't know of any -- What we're doing is, we're multilateralizing it, the thing we're often accused of not doing.

AMANPOUR: Iran, of course, is one of the axis of evil, according to the United States. And I asked that question about it being potentially a target of the U.S. because so many people in this region are concerned that that might be the case. But Secretary Powell seemed to indicate to us that that was not in the cards.

For ANDERSON COOPER 360, I'm Christiane Amanpour, reporting from Sharm al-Sheikh in Egypt.


COLLINS: Another brief news note now on the extraordinary popularity of the outgoing secretary of state. Amazing numbers, there. Look at this, 87 percent of those responding to a recent CNN- "USA Today"-Gallup poll said they had a favorable opinion of Colin Powell.

Mad cow tests in the U.S. come back negative. That tops our look at news cross-country.

Washington, D.C., a huge relief for the U.S. beef industry. The U.S. Agriculture Department says mad cow disease has not turned up in an animal singled out for testing. The U.S. faced its first and only case of the disease last December.

Hayward, Wisconsin, hunters killed investigation. This man, Chai Vang, who's suspected of shooting to death six hunters, says they shot at him first after some of them called him racially derogatory names. Vang was arrested Sunday after police say he came out of the woods with an empty rifle.

Alderson, West Virginia, a grateful Martha Stewart. On her Web site, Stewart says prison won't stop her from being thankful this Thanksgiving. She says she is in good spirits and grateful for all the support from friends and family.

Miami, Florida, sacred sandwich sold to the highest bidder. A whopping $28,000. An online casino won the eBay bidding for this 10- year-old grilled cheese sandwich said to bear the image of the Virgin Mary. (ph) plans to raise money for charity by taking the sandwich on a world tour and by selling T-shirts.

That's a look at stories cross-country tonight.

360 next, O.J. Simpson responds to the story we brought you last night. Find out if he ever plans to pay for the double murder that gripped the nation.

Plus, a 13-year-old girl riddled with 20 bullets at this checkpoint. More on that.

Also tonight, overstating the obesity problem. The CDC admits a serious mistake. We'll talk to one man who calls the whole thing a big fat myth. A story to make couch potatoes everywhere breathe a small sigh of relief.

But first, your picks, the most popular stories on right now.


COLLINS: Today, O.J. Simpson responded to a story that we first brought you last night. A hearing in Los Angeles is under way involving the $33.5 million civil judgment against Simpson for causing the deaths of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. Fred Goldman, the father of Ron, vows to collect on the judgment even if it's one nickel at a time. But today Simpson made it clear he has no intention of paying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) O.J. SIMPSON: First of all, I'm not forced to pay the money unless they have to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And if I ever participated, I've said this so many times, I've said it to Fred's face, you know, in debtor hearings, if I have to work to pay them, I won't work. It's that simple.


COLLINS: In the 1995 criminal case, Simpson was acquitted of the double murder.

The fan accused of igniting Friday's ugly basketball brawl in Detroit insists he did nothing wrong. After allegedly throwing a cup at Ron Artest, video shows John Green hitting the Indiana Pacer two times in the head. But this morning, Green said he was only trying to defend himself.


JOHN GREEN, FAN INVOLVED IN FIGHT: And I grabbed him from behind, trying to pull him off. I was trying to talk to him, saying, you know, it's, you know, stop, or whatever. You can see me yelling at him to stop. And he kept yelling something, I couldn't hear what it was. He kicked me from behind a couple times in my shin. And then when he did that, which got me mad, then I in turn had got a little bit angry at the time.


COLLINS: Earlier today, Artest sounded off on the season-long suspension he was given for his part in the melee.


RON ARTEST, SUSPENDED NBA PLAYER: It was a harsh decision, I think, and I'm not sure what's going to happen. So I'm working out, staying in shape, and waiting till -- I want to come back (UNINTELLIGIBLE).


COLLINS: Eight other players were given shorter suspensions.

Huge crowds outraged over Ukraine's presidential election, that tops our look at global stories in the uplink.

In Kiev, some 200,000 people filled the streets peacefully protesting alleged fraud in Sunday's election. Results show the Kremlin-backed candidate ahead by 2 percent, with most votes counted. But Ukraine's opposition leader says he's the real winner. He's even taken a symbolic oath of office. The president who's leaving office is calling for negotiations to solve the political crisis.

Kabul, Afghanistan, hostages freed. Hugs and smiles for this man, one of the three U.N. workers released unharmed after being held by kidnappers for almost a month. Their release comes a day after U.S. and Afghan forces raided two homes in Kabul and detained 10 people in connection to the kidnappings.

London, England, Santa chains himself to a Buckingham Palace gate. Don't worry, kids, do you think the real Santa would wear jeans? This guy's a member of Fathers for Justice, a group campaigning for greater rights for divorced or separated fathers. The group likes costume protests. You might remember our previous report on Batman and Spider Man sightings.

Buckinghamshire, England, the Osbournes robbed and asking for help. Rocker Ozzy Osbourne and his wife, Sharon, offering a reward to anyone who helps nab the thieves who took nearly $4 million in jewels. Ozzy had one of the intruders in a deadlock, but he got away.

That's tonight's uplink.

It is extremely rare for an Israeli soldier to face trial, but that's the case for an officer accused of illegally using his gun and repeatedly shooting a 13-year-old Palestinian girl.

The Israeli army believed she was planting a bomb, but her family says she was murdered on her way to school.

A newly released videotape captured the whole incident. Here now CNN's Guy Raz.


GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If it weren't for this surveillance video, the story of the Palestinian schoolgirl, the Israeli captain, and the soldiers who turned against him might never have come to light.

The video, obtained by Israel's Channel Two, records the reaction of soldiers who believed they'd spotted a militant preparing an attack inside the restricted military zone.

It turns out it was 13-year-old, Iman al-Hams. The military commander can be heard shouting an order, recorded by the army's communication network. "Anyone who moves in the area," he says, "even if it's a 3-year-old, we should kill him."

An Israeli soldier observing from his post calls back to the commander, "It's a girl wearing a school uniform," he says. "Looks like 10 or 12 years old."

But by that point, Iman al-Hams was dead. Twenty bullets were found embedded in Iman's body.

The incident prompted horrified soldiers in the company to contact the Israeli media. Monday, the Israeli Defense Forces, or IDF, opened criminal proceedings against the officer.

SHARON FEINGOLD, IDF SPOKESWOMAN: This is contrary to any IDF rules and regulations. And I think it's a very severe (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that this commander used. And, of course, I want to say how shocked many of us in the IDF were to hear that wording. RAZ: The five-count indictment against the unidentified officer cited a outlawed practice known as verifying the kill. Prosecutors say he emptied a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of bullets into her dead body at close range. If convicted, he faces a maximum penalty of three years in jail.

But it wouldn't be any comfort to Iman's mother.

HWAYDEH SALMAN AL-HAMS, IMAN'S MOTHER (through translator): She filled this house. She filled our lives with joy. And her death has left us with a great feeling of emptiness.

RAZ: Israel says its last major incursion into Gaza was designed to end rocket attacks on Israeli towns. But according to the U.N., one of the outcomes was the death of nearly 30 children, including Iman al-Hams.

Guy Raz, CNN, Jerusalem.


COLLINS: 360 next, the obesity problem overstated. The CDC admits a big mistake. Find out why one man says the whole problem is a myth.

Also tonight, postpartum depression, and a killer mom. A woman cuts off her baby's arms, then waits calmly for police to arrive. Were warning signs missed?

And a little later, the saga of Elian Gonzalez. Five years later, find out why the man who plucked him from the scene now says, I'm sorry.


COLLINS: This just in, a landmark right-to-die case. In Florida, a judge has ordered a man off life support, ruling a living will, and not a document giving his wife power of attorney, best expressed his wishes.

CNN's Eric Philips has the latest.


ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A judge's ruling upholding a living will means Alice Pinette may have to let go of her husband, 73-year-old Hanford Pinette, something she does not want to do.

ALICE PINETTE, HUSBAND ON LIFE SUPPORT: He is my lifelong partner. We've been married for 52 years.

PHILIPS: He suffered congestive heart failure earlier this year and is on life support at an Orlando hospital. She's convinced that he would get better, citing periods of responsiveness when he talks to her and other relatives, and even how much she enjoyed wearing his Korean War cap on Veterans Day, less than two weeks ago.

PINETTE: If you take your time in asking the question, yes, he can tell you yes or no.

PHILIPS: It's why she appeared in court, fighting to keep him on life support. The problem is, back in 1998, he signed a living will saying that in the event he became incapacitated, he did not want to be kept alive by artificial means.

The hospital sought to honor that request, stating in this court petition, "The patient is terminally ill and has no medical probability of recovering from his current condition. He is being kept alive by artificial means, which is contrary to his stated intentions in his living will."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hospital's obligation is to the patient.

PHILIPS: But there was a twist. Mr. Pinette included his wife as the health care surrogate in the living will. Plus, she had power of attorney over medical decisions on her husband's behalf. His wife says he wants to stay alive. That's why she wouldn't consent to taking him off life support.

PINETTE: To me that's killing the man, and I cannot do that and live with me.

PHILIPS: Now a judge has made the decision for her, one she cannot appeal.

Eric Philips, CNN, Atlanta.


COLLINS: Your private parts not so private. Why airport security pat-downs have some women outraged.

And a mother turned murderer. What drove her to cut off her baby's arms?

360 continues.


COLLINS: Time now for tonight's reset.

In New Mexico, the wait is over. We can now declare a winner in the presidential race. The state's final tally shows President Bush beating Senator John Kerry by less than 6,000 votes. New Mexico is the last state to announce its tally. It took a while, because the race there was so close.

In Washington, the Government Accountability Office will investigate reports of voting problems across the country. Several Democratic lawmakers have requested the probe after hearing allegations that voting machine malfunctioned during the election. They say their goal is to improve the voting process, not to overturn the results.

Also in Washington, media giant Viacom has reached an agreement with the FCC to pay a $3.5 million fine to settle indecency complaints. It's one of the largest fines in FCC history. Viacom has admitted that some of its radio talent, including Howard Stern, has put obscene or indecent material on the air.

Federal officials are issuing a warning about exploding cell phones. The Consumers Products Safety Commission says the phones have caused fires and burns. It says some of the blame lies on counterfeit or incompatible batteries. Cell phone makers Kyocera and LG have already recalled batteries found on a couple of their phone models.

And in Las Vegas, a jury has acquitted a former stripper and her lover in the death of casino heir Ted Binion. Sandy Murphy and Rick Tabish previously had been convicted of murder in Binion's 1998 death, but Nevada Supreme Court overturned that verdict. Today, the two were convicted on lesser charges related to a plot to steal Binion's fortune.

We don't like telling stories like this. It is horrific and almost impossible to believe. A woman in Texas is accused of doing something to her baby. Some say there were warning signs and question why nothing was done sooner, but it doesn't make sense now, and it may never. CNN's Ed Lavandera reports.


ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside this apartment in the a north Dallas suburb, something unimaginable took place, the murder of a child, something parents would have nightmares about. But one a mother is now accused of.

Police say Dena Schlosser murdered her 10-month-old baby daughter by cutting off both arms.

Police say the baby was dying in a bedroom as her mother sat calmly in the family living room and had a chilling conversation with the 911 dispatcher as religious music played in the background.

911: OK, exactly what happened?

WOMAN: I cut her arms off.

911: You cut her arms off?

WOMAN: Mmm-hmm.

911: OK, and is this your baby?

WOMAN: Yeah.

911: And it's a girl?

WOMAN: Mmm-hmm.

911: Is she conscious?


911: Is she breathing?


LAVANDERA: The baby died at an area hospital. Schlosser's husband was at work. Her two other children were at school. Many neighbors described Schlosser as a loving mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like any other mother, holding her baby, taking care of the baby, tending to her child's needs.

LAVANDERA: State social workers say they investigated Schlosser on allegations of abuse and neglect between January and July of this year. They say she was suffering from postpartum depression, but the mental health experts who treated her determined she was stabilized, and the investigation was closed.

One of the psychiatrists who treated Andrea Yates who drowned her five children three years ago says postpartum depression is still misunderstood.

DR. LUCY PURYEAR, PSYCHIATRIST: The psychotic symptoms often center around the children. The mother has thoughts and feelings about hurting the children, that are often bizarre and delusional. And if the woman's not treated, some bad things can happen.

LAVANDERA (on camera): Dena Schlosser sits in jail, facing a charge of capital murder, which means she could face the death penalty. As for her two other children, they're now in temporary foster care.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.


COLLINS: Joining me from Houston is George Parnham, the attorney for Andrea Yates. As you may remember, the Texas woman convicted of drowning her five children. Mr. Parnham, thanks for being here. Maybe you can help us with this story tonight. In fact, the case is so similar to the Andrea Yates case. What did you think when you heard that yet another mother with a history of mental illness had killed her child?

GEORGE PARNHAM, ATTORNEY: How tragic. Children obviously cry out for the intervention of mental health experts to protect them, and in instances where the mother might be suffering from postpartum depression, and obviously in this case, postpartum psychosis. It screams out for education not only in the general public, but also with medical schools, medical students, lawyers. All of us need to become aware of the reality of this mental illness.

COLLINS: Yes, and who protects these children? I mean, Dena Schlosser, as you say, she was admitted to the hospital after suffering what was called this psychotic episode and diagnosed with postpartum depression. She was investigated for seven months for -- by child protective services for neglect, and she was still at home with her children. Who's to blame here?

PARNHAM: I understand, and it's -- I think that the entire set of systems that are in place to protect children have to share a very definite and serious responsibility in situations such as this.

But we go right back to the basics. We have to be aware of the reality of mental illness. We've got to not only be aware of it, but we've got to be able to educate the public, the general public, and we've got to provide the financial assistance to, in effect, to treat women who are suffering from this most common of problems, that is postpartum baby blues or depression, and in certain instances psychosis.

Children need this. Obviously, whatever treatment this woman was receiving wasn't apt to solve this particular problem, and we have this tragedy that is on the heels of Delaney Tyler (ph) that stoned her children to death, and Andrea's horrible situation.

COLLINS: As we say now, we have this woman who cut off the arms of her 11-month-old baby and let her bleed to death. As an attorney, how do you defend her in front of a jury?

PARNHAM: Well, you know, there's no question but that I think that the case of Andrea has raised the bar as far as public awareness is concerned. The first thing that I would do is start documenting the mental health history of this woman. Obviously she's had prior problems with postpartum psychosis, and I would certainly bring in an array of experts to be able to educate a jury on the issues of the reality of women's mental health.

I would also challenge the current standard as far as the insanity defense is concerned in the state of Texas. We're doing that on Andrea's appeal. There's no place in our standard for treating, or at least understanding and legally treating a gender-based mental illness, and postpartum psychosis is exactly that. And people need to become aware that this is obviously a very real situation that, thank goodness, doesn't happen, but on the other hand we have certain situations like this woman that develops as a result of this mental health issue, and these things need to be addressed in front of that jury.

COLLINS: A tragic reality tonight, that's for sure. George Parnham, we appreciate your time here. Thank you.

PARNHAM: You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much.

COLLINS: 360 next now, Elian Gonzalez five years later. A look at the case of a little Cuban boy that sparked an international incident. Where is he now? That's next.

Also tonight, airport security and how some female passengers say the screenings are going just too far.

And in a moment, today's 360 challenge, how closely have you been following today's news? Find out next.


COLLINS: Time now for today's 360 challenge. Be the first to answer all three questions correctly, and win a 360 t-shirt.

Dan Rather has anchored "The CBS Evening News" for how many years?

A Florida woman involved in a right-to-die case is battling the hospital over her husband's what?

And how many NBA players were suspended in Friday's night's Pacers-Pistons basketbrawl? To take the challenge, log on to Then click on the answer link. Answer first, you get the shirt.

Find out last night's challenge winner and tonight's answers, coming up.


COLLINS: Five years ago this week, the world was introduced to Elian Gonzalez, the young Cuban boy had been found off the shores of Florida clinging to an inner tube. In the following months, his Miami family would fight to keep him there, and his Cuban father insisted that he return home.

The nation could not get enough of the story, as people everywhere debated over his fate. Now, a half decade later, Elian is back in Cuba, and most Americans have moved on. "How Quickly We Forget."

CNN national correspondence Susan Candiotti returns to one community that still remembers.


SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a searing image of, Elian Gonzales, enveloped by screams of protest whisked away from his Miami relatives by federal agents after a nearly five-month tug of war.

Jim Goldman is the now retired G-man who planned and lead the operation that lasted a mere 154 seconds.

JAMES GOLDMAN, RETIRED INS AGENT: The government should have acted swifter, been more definitive and made clearer and quicker decisions to take that child into custody and to return him to his father.

CANDIOTTI: That's how the saga in Miami ended. It began five years ago Thanksgiving Day. A young boy found adrift in an inner tube, separated from his mother who drowned at sea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a miracle of God that he was able to stay alive for those three days.

CANDIOTTI: Five years later an oil painting of Elian hangs in the home of Donato Dalrymple. He and his cousin plucked Elian from the water. Nicknamed "The Fisherman," the self-employed janitor will forever be remembered for this photo. Dalrymple, fought efforts by Elian's father to have the boy sent home to Cuba.

Now Dalrymple says he's sorry.

DONATO DALRYMPLE, CO-RESCUER: I would like to apologize to him. To say that I should have never tried to stand in the way of that father and son relationship, that he's definitely in the right place.

CANDIOTTI: Elian will turn 11 next month. In Cuba, he's a hero, a symbol of political victory over exiles, who fought his return to communist Cuba. President Fidel Castro attention his birthday parties. Elian and his father are invited to political assemblies to which his father now belongs. Juan Miguel is still a waiter who zealously protects his sons privacy at home and school. Back in Miami, Elian's temporary home is now a museum. The youngster's room preserved with his clothes, his toys, his school uniform, an essay by a child begging him to stay.


CANDIOTTI: Political scientist Dario Moreno, says while the Elian saga divided Miami, it had its benefits.

MORENO: It was a real come-to-Jesus moment for the community, in which everybody realized that they have a stake in each other.

CANDIOTTI: For some, the political stakes took their toll. Former U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, who ordered his return, lost a primary bid for governor. The Miami-Dade mayor who warned federal agents they'd be on their own if they went after Elian, demolished in a run for the Senate. Yet one of Elian's lawyers is now the city's mayors. As for the boy's young would-be surrogate mother, cousin Marisleysis now operates her own beauty salon. Married and divorced this year, she tells CNN, God brought Elian to me once. He'll do it again.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.


COLLINS: You just heard a bit from Donato Dalrymple the man who helped rescue Elian Gonzales, and eventually turned him over to federal agents.

So, Dalrymple joins me from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, tonight.

Thanks for being here. We've seen the pictures so many times. I mean, you were right there holding Elian as federal agents with machine guns came in to get him. In fact, there's a picture.

What was going through your mind at that time? DALRYMPLE: It was horrifying, not knowing what was on the other side of the door, I just was holding Elian in my arms and I'm hearing people outside, get down or we'll shoot. So I didn't know what to think. But I was horrified at what I heard outside. And plus Elian was screaming for his life, help me, help me. And just I felt helpless. I couldn't do anything to help him.

COLLINS: I can't imagine. Then Attorney General Janet Reno defended sending in those federal agents to take Elian that night.

Listen to this for a moment.


JANET RENO, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: We had one goal over time, that was to reunite the little boy with his father. We tried every way we knew how to do it in a voluntary, peaceful way. That didn't work.


COLLINS: Was this the right thing to do in your mind, Donato?

DALRYMPLE: No, not at all. I mean, I just thought over and over for the last four years, why did they do it like this?

I thought, you know, this is the United States of America. We're the number one in the world. We can do things peacefully and humane. They could have gone into his school at any time and taken him out peacefully with a women agent, but to come in with 150 federal armed agents, I mean, that was a criminal act.

COLLINS: You've said, though, that you want to apologize to Elian's dad, why?

DALRYMPLE: Of course, you know, something, I've had a lot of time to think. I got caught up in something that was much bigger than me, very political. I only had one stake, and that was for the miracle of Elian being rescued on the ocean. My heart was with that child. But I never wanted to separate him from the father, and I got caught up in the middle of a lot of political people. And I think I was misunderstood. Now I'm the father of a 2 and half year old, and I just couldn't imagine ever being separated from her. And I could never imagine this man being separated from this father -- or this boy.

COLLINS: Donato Dalrymple, we appreciate your time here tonight. Thank you.

DALRYMPLE: Thank you.

COLLINS: 360 next, the touchy subject of airport security. Pat- down searches and frisks are making some female travelers very of uncomfortable. The story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Among the many things that have changed in the anxiety of the post-9/11 world, is this: Getting there is no longer have the fun. Pretty often, in fact, it's no fun at all, especially, it seems, for women, who are complaining more and more about the intrusiveness of the hands-on searches to which they are subject at airports. Kimberly Osias reports on the new struggle between security and decency.


KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's done in the name of security, but New York attorney Rhonda Gayner says she felt violated on a recent trip through the Tampa airport. A female screener patted her down under her armpit and touched her with an open hand between her breasts.

RHONDA GAYNER, FLYER: And I was like, whoa, what are you doing? You can't do that. And the supervisor who I had been objecting to was standing right there, and he said, yes, we can.

OSIAS: Gayner says she felt like a common criminal when she was intimately patted down in full public view.

GAYNER: I've had the wand thing done before, you know, they glide it over you, but this time, anytime, you know, the wand beeped, they touched me in that spot.

OSIAS: She's hired an attorney and is considering filing a class-action lawsuit. She believes the violation is endemic and underreported, because women feel intimidated. The American Civil Liberties Union agrees, and says they have received a growing number of complaints.

JAY STANLEY, ACLU: What we have here is a big problem. We have a security measure that's spun out of control, because there aren't proper protections being put in place to protect against that human element.

OSIAS: After two Chechen women smuggled explosives onto Russian planes, the TSA put a new policy in place, calling for more frequent pat-down searches. Screeners now have more latitude and leverage. Based on their visual observation alone, an individual can be searched even if a detector never sounds.


OSIAS: TSA does have a protocol in place. Screeners are only supposed to use the backs of their hands when touching sensitive areas. And as far as grievances are concerned, you can lodge a complaint in writing or ask to speak to a supervisor. The problem is, when you're in a stressful airport situation against the clock, some people don't want to do that.

And the women that I spoke to said, quite frankly, they didn't want to subject themselves to harassment all over again -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Kimberly Osias, thanks so much for that.

Obesity is definitely a problem in the United States, but apparently not as many people are dying from it as previously thought. Today the CDC admitted that in a report released in March, it accidentally overstated the number of obesity deaths in the last decade. In that report, the CDC said obesity could soon overtake smoking as the number one cause of preventable death. The CDC hasn't provided a revised number yet, but "The Wall Street Journal" says the agency may have been off by 80,000.

Joining me now from Denver to discuss the CDC's miscalculation is Paul Campos. He's the author of "The Obesity Myth: Why America's Obsession With Weight Is Hazardous to Your Health." Mr. Campos, thanks for being with us tonight. Public health agencies tell us obesity is a national epidemic, a health crisis. We are getting fatter and fatter. Is there a lot of misleading information out there then?

PAUL CAMPOS, AUTHOR: Oh, absolutely. This is tremendously exaggerated. And I think this CDC admission of error is really just the tip of the iceberg, because when I first looked at this paper when it was published back in March, it was obvious there were huge flaws in this, and it was typical of the kind of panic and misinformation and hysteria that grips all of us with regard to this issue right now.

COLLINS: But to be fair, you're not a scientist, you're a law professor. Does that hurt your credibility in making this argument?

CAMPOS: Well, essentially what I've done in investigating this issue and in writing "The Obesity Myth" was to undertake a kind of whistle-blowing critique of the science in this area, and I discovered that there is in fact a great deal of junk science in regard to this issue, and many scientists and doctors and eating disorder specialists and nutritionists agree, that in fact we have way too much emphasis on weight in this country and not nearly enough on other factors that are far more important to health and that we don't emphasize nearly enough.

COLLINS: What are those factors?

CAMPOS: Well, for example, if you take into account people's activity levels, and if you look at how active they are, as opposed to being sedentary, weight basically drops out of the equation as a health risk.

Now, of course, there are some people who are heavier than they would be if they were more active, but the important thing in these cases is not to focus on these people's weight, but to focus on their activity levels. And when you look at people who are supposedly overweight and obese and who are sedentary, and get them to become active, their health improves tremendously, even if this doesn't lead to significant long-term weight loss, which it usually does not.

COLLINS: So that's your solution, then, is to become more active? CAMPOS: Oh, absolutely. We should be encouraging physical activity by Americans of all shapes and sizes, and we should recognize that thin people who are sedentary are at tremendous increased risk for disease, while fat people who are physically active have excellent health on average. And all of this focus on weight is misguided. And I think the CDC paper's admission of its tremendous overstatement of the effects of overweight and obesity is just the beginning of a backlash in regard to a lot of the junk science that's out there on this issue.

COLLINS: But you talk about junk science. Some of the numbers we looked at, though, some 300,000 premature deaths annually due to heart disease, type II diabetes, breathing problems, arthritis, all in some way due to chronic obesity. You have to concede that there are health risks.

CAMPOS: Well, certainly there are health risks, but I think that what we have seen is that any health risks that are associated with increased weight have ended up being attributed to increased weight, instead of being attributed to the things that are really health risks, such as socioeconomic status, not having access to medical care, sedentary lifestyle, eating disorder behavior, all of these things which are far more relevant to health than weight, which we have this unhealthy obsession with in this culture.

COLLINS: All right, Paul Campos, we certainly appreciate your time here once again. Thanks.

CAMPOS: Good to go here.

COLLINS: The "360" challenge. Here is another look at tonight's questions now. Have you been paying attention? Log on to, click on the answer link to play.


COLLINS: Time now for the answers to today's 360 challenge.

Dan Rather has anchored "The CBS Evening News" for how many years? Twenty-four.

A Florida woman involved in a right-to-die case is battling a hospital over her husband's what? Living will.

How many NBA players were suspended in Friday's night's Pacers- Pistons basketbrawl? Nine.

Last night's winner -- Lisa DeKruyff of Des Moines, Iowa.

I'm Heidi Collins in for Anderson Cooper. Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."


International Edition
CNN TV CNN International Headline News Transcripts Advertise With Us About Us
   The Web     
Powered by
© 2005 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us.
external link
All external sites will open in a new browser. does not endorse external sites.
 Premium content icon Denotes premium content.
Add RSS headlines.