Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Thousands Protest Results of Ukrainian Election; Rather to Step Down Next Year

Aired November 23, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now. A country on the brink. Tens of thousands of protesters are in a fury over possible fraud. Is a former Soviet republic heading toward civil war? Now the White House speaks out.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Weighing anchor. Under fire, Dan Rather decides to step down, after a quarter century as the symbol of CBS News.

Plot foiled? The queen announces new anti-terror measures, but has Britain already prevented its own 9/11?

"Alexander."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hero, a macho war hero. He's a bisexual or what they call bisexual.

WOODRUFF: We'll speak with controversial director Oliver Stone about his conversational new epic.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, November 23, 2004.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Hello. I'm Judy Woodruff. Wolf is off today. A surprise announcement this day of a very rare opening in what is arguably the most exclusive club in this industry, network news anchor. Dan Rather says he will step down from CBS flagship newscast. CNN's Chris Huntington begins our coverage from New York. Hello, Chris.

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dan Rather's remarkable career spanned seven presidential administrations. He covered Vietnam, Watergate and, of course, right on through to the current war in Iraq. But at age 73, Rather is choosing to step away from the limelight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Dan Rather will step down as the editor of the "CBS Evening News" on March 9 after 24 years. That's longer than any other network news anchor, even Walter Cronkite who held the post for 19 years. In a statement, Rather said "I have always said that I would know when the time was right to step away from the anchor chair. This past summer, CBS and I began to discuss this matter in earnest and we decided that the close of the election cycle would be an appropriate time."

Throughout his 40-year career with CBS Rather had a reporter's knack for finding controversy. He found himself in a mess this summer when "60 Minutes" used a questionable document in a report critical of President Bush's service with the Texas Air National Guard. CBS and Rather were forced to concede they could not prove the authenticity of a letter allegedly written by a National Guard commander criticizing then airman Bush's conduct. CBS has asked former attorney general Richard Thornburgh to oversee an investigation of that "60 Minutes" report. A CBS spokesman tells CNN, quote, "Rather's decision to step down is independent of that investigation," end quote. Andy Rooney, the sage of "60 Minutes" put Rather's pending retirement into perspective.

ANDY ROONEY, "60 MINUTES": Oh, I think he is probably ready to do it. I think it's a good thing to do. He is about 15 years after Cronkite stepped down, that much older. So he has had a good run. It's been great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would you like to see in the anchor chair?

ROONEY: Oh, I don't. I wouldn't suggest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HUNTINGTON: And CBS is not saying anything about who Rather's successor will be right now either, although the speculation points to the leading candidates as John Roberts, the current CBS White House correspondent and Scott Pelley, a correspondent on "60 Minutes II." CBS did make the point of saying that Dan Rather will stay on full time as a correspondent on both editions of "60 Minutes" -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: He will be there, it sounds like, for years to come. Chris Huntington, thank you very much.

Rather's career at CBS is in its fifth decade and some of them have been seen more controversy than others but it all started with the story of a lifetime and a national tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Dan Rather catapulted into the public spotlight the day president John Kennedy was assassinated. In just his second year as a CBS news correspondent Rather broke the news that Kennedy had died. Rather soon became the network's White House correspondent and his reports on the Watergate scandal made him the target of conservative criticism. At a contentious 1974 news conference, president Richard Nixon asked Rather if he was running for something. Rather's reply, no, sir. Are you? Despite his run-ins with Nixon, or perhaps because of them, his star continued to rise and in 1981, he became anchor of the "CBS Evening News." Though his predecessor in the job, Walter Cronkite, had been called the most trusted man in America, Rather proved to be, at times, a controversial choice. While his reporting earned multiple Emmys, he also was the target of occasional criticism. Some fellow journalists questioned Rather's election night analogies.

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: If we say somebody has carried the state, you can pretty much take it to the bank, book it that that's true.

WOODRUFF: For one week in 1986, Rather puzzled his viewers by signing off his news cast with the ominous-sounding word "courage." In a bizarre incident that same year, Rather was roughed up on a Manhattan sidewalk by a man asking the question, "Kenneth, what is the frequency?" Then there was the day when coverage of a tennis tournament delayed the start of the "CBS Evening News" and Rather walked off the set, leaving network affiliates with a blank screen. During a 1988 interview, when Rather pressed then vice president George Bush about the Iran-Contra scandal, Bush threw that incident back in Rather's face.

RATHER: I don't want to be argument...

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not a great night because I want to talk about why I want to be president, why those 41 percent of the people are supporting me. And I don't think it's fair to judge my whole career by a rehash on Iran. How would you like it if I judge your career by those seven minutes when you walked off the set in New York?

WOODRUFF: Like his Watergate confrontation with President Nixon, Rather's 1988 argument with vice president Bush fueled conservative charges Rather was biased. Those were charges that only grew louder this year, when CBS was forced to retract its story about George W. Bush's National Guard record.

RATHER: I made a mistake. I didn't dig hard enough, long enough, didn't ask enough of the right questions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: For more on Dan Rather's pending departure, I'm joined by Alex Jones with the Shorenstein Center on Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University. Thank you for being here. This investigation into what happened with that National Guard story is not finished yet. Why is Dan Rather stepping down now, do you think?

ALEX JONES, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, my guess is that he wanted to get in front of it. I'm sure it's going to be embarrassing for him in some respects. I don't think it's going to be the thing that defines his distinguished career and I regard it as a distinguished career, but I think certainly if I were in Dan Rather's shoes, it might have occurred to me that this was the right time.

WOODRUFF: Are conservatives -- do they have a legitimate complaint about Dan Rather?

JONES: I don't think so. I think Dan Rather was an equal opportunity assailer of presidents and the powerful. I think that some of the things that Dan Rather was criticized for are among the things I like him best for. I mean, I remember -- I was watching that press conference when he spoke back to president Nixon and I thought, right on. I mean, the point was, the president asked him or said a disrespectful thing to him and Dan Rather said a disrespectful thing back or it was a wisecrack. He got criticized roundly for that but I thought what that said was you can't bully me and I'm not going to go away and I think Dan Rather has been a highly principled indefatigable journalist for his career, and I salute him for that.

Frankly, oddly enough, now that he is going to be leaving the anchor's chair and going to "60 Minutes" and he has this incident with George W. Bush hanging over his head, he's going to have something to prove and my guess is he's going to throw himself into reporting again. And who knows what will happen. I think it will be good for journalism.

WOODRUFF: If he has been as principled and straight arrow as you suggest, why was he been such a lightning rod?

JONES: Well, because I think that he has been in the traditional of journalists that ask blunt questions and do that thing, especially over television, that looks like argumentative badgering. You say, but you didn't answer the question. But you didn't answer the question. How many times can you say that without looking like you're the bad guy when, in fact, the person you're asking often a very legitimate question of simply declines to answer?

WOODRUFF: With Dan Rather moving on in March, with Tom Brokaw stepping aside in a few days, where do you see network news headed?

JONES: I think it's still the most powerful aggregator of a news audience that exists. So it's sort of, in relative terms, it has declined but it's still very important. I think that the person who fills that seat is likely to be as close to an iconic figure as CBS can come up with. I think that while they may go inside I think it's equally likely they would look outside CBS and find the person they think would most likely to bring an audience, to attract an audience to CBS. And I think that that suggests that as long as the network is going to be in the news business, that is going to be their marquee spot. This is going to be a very good job in journalism for a long time to come. I certainly hope that's true anyway. I think it's going to be important for CBS to choose someone for that spot that's going to say we consider this to be very important.

WOODRUFF: Do you want to speculate on some names?

JONES: Well, what about you?

WOODRUFF: Seriously.

JONES: I'm quite serious. I think that of the people who are outside the CBS, you know, world, I'm just going to say these names that come to my mind. You, Diane Sawyer and Tim Russert. Those are the three that come right off the top of my head.

WOODRUFF: Well, you mentioned Diane Sawyer, do you think a network would turn to a woman?

JONES: I don't see why not. I mean, the thing is, I think that the network will turn to the person they think can bring credibility in an audience, and I think that, you know, women have already demonstrated that they can certainly do that.

WOODRUFF: Alex Jones, what about -- there's so much discussion about cable news overtaking the networks in a number of different ways. You don't necessarily share that perspective. Is that what you're saying?

JONES: Well, it's not that I don't have any lack of understanding of the power of cable news. I think cable news has been a phenomenon and I think it's only going to grow. But I do also think that as long as there is a commitment by the three major networks to news, the network's nightly news show is going to be that iconic place, it's going to be that place where the largest audience gathers. And I think as long as that is true, the person who sits in Dan Rather's chair is going to have a great forum for doing the kind of broadcast news that can make a difference. It's going to be a great job. That's going to go on.

WOODRUFF: But you still have an audience that is increasingly dispersed with many different choices from where to get their news and many different times of day to get their news.

JONES: That's why you pick the person that you believe can add excitement and credibility and can attract a crowd.

WOODRUFF: Well, on that note, we're going to leave it there. Alex Jones, who is -- who runs the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University, very good to see you.

JONES: Good to see you, Judy. Bye-bye.

WOODRUFF: Thank you for talking to us. We appreciate it.

To our viewers, here's now your turn to weigh in on this story, our Web question of the day is this: Will Dan Rather's decision to step down from the anchor chair help or hurt CBS? You can vote right now at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

Key members of Congress point to the Pentagon as being behind the collapse of the intelligence reform bill. But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is denying that he had anything to do with torpedoing the legislation. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.

Hello, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, it's no secret that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and others in the Pentagon are worried that having a separate intelligence could slow the flow of intelligence to battlefield commanders, but Rumsfeld denies he did anything to scuttle reform.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who opposed the plan, insists once President Bush decided to support it he saluted smartly.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Needless to say, I'm a part of this administration. I support the president's decision.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld bristled at charges leveled by Connecticut Congressman Christopher Shays that he blatantly opposing the Senate version of the bill supported by the White House, and flatly denied a "New York Times" editorial that said despite Mr. Rumsfeld's denials, it seems obvious he lobbied against the president's stated policy.

RUMSFELD: "The New York Times" is wrong. The congressmen who are saying that I had blatant opposition to the bill is incorrect.

MCINTYRE: Joint Chiefs Chairman General Richard Myers did support a House version opposed by the Bush administration in a letter requested by and sent to Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. Myers writes: "The House bill maintains this is vital flow through the secretary of deference. It is my recommendation that this critical provision be preserved."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: General Myers, unlike Rumsfeld, is required by Congress as a condition of his confirmation, to give his advice without any political influence. The White House says neither Rumsfeld or Myers is in any trouble. Both expressed their concerns properly -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jamie, where do you see this headed?

MCINTYRE: Well, congressional negotiators have offered a number of compromises to try to address the Pentagon's concern. But so far, there has been no resolution over the impasse over the bill.

WOODRUFF: It's not clear whether they're going to come back together in December or wait until January. All right. Jamie, thank you very much.

In Iraq, 5,000 U.S., British and Iraqi troops have launched a new campaign against insurgents in Babil province, a volatile region south of Baghdad. The U.S. military says an upsurge in attacks there may be blamed in part on insurgents who escaped from Falluja.

As an international conference on Iraq ended today in Egypt, Secretary of State Colin Powell said that he thinks Iraq can be stabilized before the scheduled January election. Speaking with CNN chief correspondent Christiane Amanpour, Powell also described the nuclear program in neighboring Iran. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that over time the kinds of missile developments that Iran has been involved in and some recent information that I have seen suggests to me that it is part of a broader program that could lead to the development of a nuclear weapon. They don't have it yet. But if, as we suspect, they have been working on nuclear weapons development -- and I mean, the E.U. 3 is engaged with Iran because they had the same suspicion. The IAEA found out things that they didn't know about and they had the same suspicion. That's why such a spotlight is being put on Iran right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Colin Powell talking to our Christiane Amanpour.

A royal warning terrorists may be targeting Britain. But now word the country may have already averted a major attack. We'll have details.

Also, tens of thousands take to the streets in the capital of a former Soviet republic. We'll show you why.

And this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVER STONE, DIRECTOR, "ALEXANDER": I never tried to exploit something, I've tried to make it dramatic. And I don't want to distort the truth. I have no desire to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: But that's not what some critics are saying about Oliver Stone's latest movie, the controversial director talks to us about "Alexander."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Tens of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets of a former Soviet satellite republic for the third straight day, demanding the results of the Ukraine's presidential election be overturned. Joining me is our national security correspondent David Ensor -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Judy, U.S. officials worry about the potential for violence in the Ukraine and what that could lead to.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): With tens of thousands protesting on the streets of Kiev, the White House says it is deeply disturbed by what election observers like Senator Richard Lugar say appears to be an attempt to steal the presidential election. ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPT. SPOKESMAN: There is a widespread perception in Ukraine over the fairness, widespread perception that the elections were not free, were not fair, and do not reflect the will of the people.

ENSOR: The White House is urging Ukraine's authorities not to certify the results. With most of the votes counted, opposition candidate Viktor Yuschenko, a pro-Western moderate nationalist, is narrowly losing the vote to Russian-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich, according to Ukraine's election authorities. Yuschenko is charging massive vote fraud in a nation of 50 million, bordered by NATO member Poland on one side, by Russia on the other.

With the protesting crowds in Ukraine growing, Washington is urging authorities not to use force against their own people.

MICHAEL MCFAIL, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: The last thing the United States wants and our European allies, is a major civil war in Europe. That's what this could become.

ENSOR: American and European diplomats are urging Ukraine to conduct a serious inquiry and a recount. They're urging the same to Ukraine's all-important neighbor to the east, Vladimir Putin of Russia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: But beyond warning against violence and expressing outrage, there may not be a great deal that the West can do to effect the outcome, Judy.

WOODRUFF: So what are your sources in the intelligence community, David, what do they think Putin is going to do?

ENSOR: Really hard to say, but that is the key question. He has, of course, favored the candidate who will win this election unless there is a recount, a pro-Russian candidate. Whether if there were to be violence, the Russians would feel they needed to intervene militarily or not -- one certainly hopes not -- but that will create a very large crisis.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and there will be some kind of a deal worked out, perhaps even a recount in the Ukraine. But it's a very worrying situation. U.S. officials are watching it very closely.

WOODRUFF: And in any event, very unlikely that the U.S. would get directly involved?

ENSOR: Doesn't have a lot of leverage. It could say, you know, cut off travel for certain people. There's some aid involved, but Russia has most of the leverage.

WOODRUFF: We hear you. David Ensor, thank you very much, our national security correspondent. We appreciate it. From London, word that Britain may have thwarted a major terror plot. It comes as the government unveils plans for a new policy agency, and compulsory identity cards linked to a national database. The measures were signaled with full pomp and pageantry, at the queen's opening of Parliament.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEEN ELIZABETH II, UNITED KINGDOM: My government recognizes that we live in a time of global uncertainty, with an increased threat from international terrorism and organized crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: One question, has Britain already averted its own 9/11-style attack? Here is ITN's Nick Robinson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK ROBINSON, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's one of the capital's most famous landmarks, it's the financial heart of London's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). People who work here know it's a potential target. Hundreds have been trained how to respond in what the police call Operation Britain (ph).

These pictures are a horrific reminder of the terrible consequences, previously unthinkable, of flying a plane into a building. A reminder, too, of how easy it proved. A passenger who trained as a pilot strolled through airport security, his heart set on suicide and mass murder.

I'm told that the plan for an attack on Canary Wharf also involved terrorists who trained as pilots. I've not been told how or when it was uncovered, or how close they came, but this was not the only target. The terrorists were also plotting its claim to crash planes into Heathrow Airport.

This revelation comes just days after the Home Secretary David Blunkett warned that al Qaeda are on our doorstep and threatening our lives. The threat, he said, will be demonstrated through the courts in the months to come.

The head of the Metropolitan Police, Sir John Stevens, claimed last week that "we have thwarted a number of attacks, we've disrupted them." And MI-5's head, Eliza Manningham-Buller, recently told an employers conference that their businesses should prepare for terrorist attacks.

The authorities have always been reluctant to reveal the orders they're given, but a year and a half ago, they had no choice. The army surrounded Heathrow. The government were accused of scare- mongering, but they and their advisers insisted then and do today that they had a real warning of shoulder-launched missiles being used to down a plane.

In recent months, MI-5's budget has been doubled. New recruits soared, and a unit created to filter all intelligence received. Security at airports has been stepped up here, in the United States, and in much of Europe, although intelligence experts are now focusing on what they believe to be weakest security systems, in Eastern Europe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: That was reporter Nick Robinson of Britain's ITN.

HIV and what is known as the down low, the potentially deadly secret some blame for soaring infection rates among African-American women.

Also, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVER STONE, DIRECTOR: If you talk to 99 percent of the respected historians of Alexander, and they will tell you without doubt that he was -- was a bisexual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Director Oliver Stone on the controversy surrounding his new movie about Alexander the Great.

And later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON OSBOURNE: My wedding ring (UNINTELLIGIBLE) again. Ozzy bought me because it was a 10, and he always said I was a perfect 10.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: A popular reality TV family robbed. Details of their real-life drama.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: First, John F. Kennedy, then Richard Nixon. And now Alexander the Great. Oliver Stone has done it again. The director's $150 million film on the warrior king opens nationwide tomorrow. And like his films on JFK and Nixon, this one is generating controversy. CNN's Mary Snow talked to Oliver Stone today, and she joins us live in New York. Hello, Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Judy. And you know, like his other films on prominent figures, Oliver Stone's "Alexander" includes chapters that the history books left out. But this one breaks new ground. I sat down and spoke today with Oliver Stone about "Alexander the Great," the conqueror and the controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conquer your fear and I promise you, you will conquer death.

SNOW (voice-over): Oliver Stone says his depiction was done authentically, with respect for Alexander the Great, but the movie has generated controversy over Alexander's sexuality.

(on camera): What do you think is the most conversational thing about Alexander the Great that would surprise people?

STONE: I think they've already been surprised, and they've raised a few issues about the fact that our hero, a macho war hero, is a bisexual. What they call bisexual, in Greek times they didn't use those terminologies. Polymorphous would be more exact.

He was a man -- Alexander was a man who wanted to go, frankly, to the end of himself, to the end of the world. He wanted to go beyond Aristotle in all the things he had been taught. He wanted to see what was beyond the maps. And, I think, in the same way, he explored himself, his sexuality, his love. He went through every emotion to the fullest.

But everybody dies, but not everybody lives fully. And I think Alexander is perhaps the single greatest individual in history to whom so much happened, maybe Jesus is on that level of things happening to him, but Alexander had so many cultures, so many countries, 50 battles, and he won them all. Military genius, conqueror, at the same time, generous in victory, and included the people that he conquered, their armies, their children.

He, himself, married an Oriental. He was an expander and a builder of cities, don't forget.

SNOW: What do you say to critics who say that you exploit historical gray areas in order to generate movie audiences?

STONE: I have no response to that unless it's specific.

I never try to exploit something. I try to make it dramatic. And I don't want to distort the truth. I have no desire to. On the movie, we had consultants everywhere, including Robin Lane Fox from Oxford, who wrote a great book on Alexander in 1973. He was with there. He vetted the script, was with us all the time. We had military advisers, Babylonian adviser, Egyptian adviser, Bactrian adviser, Indian adviser. We tried hard to get everything right.

But we don't know exactly what happened behind closed doors. So we went with the psychological story. Some people may not like it. I love it. And a lot of people do, too.

SNOW (voice-over): Not everyone loves it. A group of attorneys in Greece say that Stone should label the movie a piece of fiction and, if he doesn't, a lawsuit may follow.

(on camera): They are threatening to sue you for portraying Alexander as a bisexual. Your response to that?

STONE: Twenty-six lawyers. Yes, no one knows who they are, but they've certainly made some noise. And the Greeks made noise before in 1997. They have a different version of Alexander's life, which is -- doesn't skew to history.

And yet, I think you can talk to 99 percent of the respected historians on Alexander and they would tell you, without doubt that he was a bisexual. And that was the way it was in those times. It was not unusual. For the Greeks to deny it is unbelievable at this stage of existence. And, furthermore, if you remember, the Greeks were never big fans of Alexander. You know that. He was a northern Greek. And they were always kind of wary of him and critical of him at that time, still are.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, a spokesman for the group of attorneys in Greece said that the group is waiting to see how Warner Brothers handled tomorrow's premiere before taking any action. Now, Warner Brothers is owned by Time Warner, the same parent company as CNN. It had no comment on the threat of a lawsuit -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Mary, you're going to stay with us. We're going to see more of Mary's interview with director Oliver Stone ahead, including strong remarks on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

NBA brawl fallout, new action taken to reduce the penalties imposed on the athletes involved in the fight.

Election investigation, lingering questions on electronic voting problems. Now the government gets involved.

Holiday travel delays, why there may be a few bumps in the road to your Thanksgiving destination.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back.

Strong statement on a defining moment in American history. Director Oliver Stone weighs in on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

But, first, a quick check of other stories now in the news.

U.S. Agriculture officials have just released the results of their test on an animal with suspected mad cow disease. And it is good news for the cattle industry. Officials say the test came back negative, meaning the animal does not have the brain-wasting disease.

Bail is set at $2.5 million for a man suspected of fatally shooting six deer hunters. The sixth victim died yesterday, one day after the shootings in northwest Wisconsin. According to court documents, 36-year-old Chai Vang accuses the hunters of shooting first.

The NBA Players Union has filed an appeal over the suspensions that commissioner David Stern handed out after last week's brawl in Detroit. The union wants an arbitrator to decide whether the suspensions should be reduced.

Democrats say the Government Accountability Office has agreed to their request to review some alleged irregularities during the recent elections. Several congressional Democrats say they're concerned about the security and the accuracy of voting technologies, the distribution of voting machines and the counting of provisional ballots.

Travelers beginning Thanksgiving weekend trips tomorrow are being warned to brace for possible delays. Heavy volume is expected to delay airline trips. And forecasters say snow, rain and fog could slow motorists.

Over a career that has produced several box office hits Oliver Stone has been criticized often for taking liberties with historical facts. And he has already come under fire over his latest film, "Alexander," which opens nationwide tomorrow.

CNN's Mary Snow joins us again from New York for more on her interview today with Oliver Stone.

Hello again, Mary.

SNOW: Hi there, Judy.

And while Oliver Stone is passionate about "Alexander," he had some heated moments when he revisited the movie he made about the JFK assassination and the conspiracy theory behind it.

We spoke about that early today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: You take a look back at your career, your movie about JFK, your movie about Richard Nixon, and now this movie, which one do you think is more true to history? Is this one more to history than the other two?

STONE: Different movies.

Certainly, "Alexander," we don't know as much about Alexander, because all the records basically were destroyed. We are going off a limited set of knowledge, which Robin Lane Fox outlines in his book. But Nixon, we know a lot. And we did a lot of research. I would remind you that we put out a huge compendium, a book, for "JFK" with everything we did, all the details, all the footnotes of what we -- we didn't hide anything.

Same thing on "Nixon." We got killed by some people in the press who didn't bother to read it. And "JFK," by the way, is not a statement. It's been misunderstood. It's a question. It's a deconstruction, a hypothesis of what's wrong with the Warren Commission. And it raises the questions. It doesn't answer them. And I'm so tired of people walking around for years saying, Oliver Stone has 40 federal agencies killing Kennedy and including Lyndon Johnson. This is nonsense. This is not in the movie. Please see it again.

SNOW (voice-over): The Warren Commission concluded there was no evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was part of a conspiracy. Despite its conclusions, Stone is adamant that Oswald did not pull the trigger.

(on camera): This week, there is a very conversational video game that was released by a maker in the U.K. depicting the JFK assassination. And although there's been a big backlash against it, the creator said, listen, I'm doing this in the interest in history. Do you have a comment on that?

STONE: Well, I think it's a shame. It's bad taste.

Furthermore, Lee Harvey Oswald did not shoot Kennedy, whatever they establish and the critics say. And to have him in the game shooting Kennedy is insane. Plus, it's a stupid idea. And it's ugly. It teaches kids the wrong thing. It sounds horrible.

SNOW: And, finally, yesterday was the 41st anniversary of the assassination of JFK.

STONE: Yes. Yes.

SNOW: History books still have it wrong, you think?

STONE: Totally. The establishment press has covered this up. They won't go into it. They won't even allow a reporter to investigate it.

The editors kill it. I just think it's sad that America -- it's very much like -- if you think about it -- like the Iraq war. The American public is still convinced that Mr. Hussein had weapons of mass destruction because of the media. What's going on? Do people educate themselves or think for themselves? It's the same thing.

Kennedy at the time -- and most people knew something was fishy. It's too bad that time goes by and you have the Peter Jennings of the world, they get on the air and they repeat it and they repeat it and they repeat it, Oswald did it alone, case closed. What smug arrogance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, Stone is referring to a documentary done last year by Peter Jennings which concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman. In response to Stone's comments, a spokesperson for ABC says that the documentary won a number of awards, including an Emmy and an Edward R. Murrow Award, saying -- quote -- "We believe our work on this documentary speaks for itself" -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Mary Snow, thanks very much for a very interesting interview with Oliver Stone. We appreciate it.

SNOW: Sure. WOODRUFF: HIV and what could be a potentially deadly secret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA JOHNSON, HIV POSITIVE: But it was still difficult for him to come right out and say either my preference or my orientation is to have sex with men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: It's known as the down low, and some say it is causing a rise in HIV among African-American women. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains.

Also ahead:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON OSBOURNE, TALK SHOW HOST: And he always said that, when he had the money, he would buy me a 10-karat diamond ring. And he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Stolen Jewels. Burglars get away with a sentimental item from the home of Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne.

And, later, the topping of the National Christmas Tree.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(APPLAUSE)

ZAHN: All this week, CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is looking at the new reality of HIV and AIDS, today, the soaring rate among African-American women. Some say it's the secret lives of their men that may be to blame.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from New York -- hello, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good evening, Judy.

It's called the down low. That's what a lot of people refer to it as. We're talking about African-American straight women who have the highest soaring rates of HIV now in the country, the fastest growing. The face of HIV/AIDS has changed a significant amount since people thought of it as the gay white plague. This is one woman's story as to why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNSON: She's slowing down.

GUPTA (voice-over): Forty-six-year-old Vanessa Johnson has already lived twice as long as her doctors told her she would. JOHNSON: Love you, too.

GUPTA: In 1990, she was a young law student and mother of a 6- year-old son when she was diagnosed with HIV and told she had seven years to live.

JOHNSON: That scared me to death. I didn't want to suffer. And I knew that people suffered from this disease.

GUPTA: She suspects she was infected by her high school sweetheart. Although they never married, they dated for 18 years and had a child. He died of AIDS in 1994. She says now all the signs were there. He did have affairs and she believes some of them were with men.

JOHNSON: He had a lot of gay friends. He, at the end, would say things to try to let me know, to try to affirm what I already knew. But it was still difficult for him to come right out and say either my preference or my orientation is to have sex with men.

GUPTA: This situation isn't unique. And it's called the down low, men who have wives or girlfriends and have sex with other men. Although some are claiming the down low is responsible for much of the increase in HIV infection among black straight women, many experts are saying it just isn't so.

RASHAD BURGESS, CDC: When we look at African-American men who have sex with men that do not disclose their sexual activities or sexual orientation, we actually find that they are less likely to have high-risk behavior and less likely to be HIV-positive.

DR. DAVID MALEBRANCHE, EMORY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: We can't really say for sure how much of a contribution this is having to the HIV infection rates among black women.

GUPTA: Experts say the reasons are many, that, in the black community, AIDS was originally thought of as a gay white man's disease and was not even on the radar scene. Add to that poverty, I.V. drug use and the fact that blacks don't have same access to primary health care.

Whatever the reason, the explosion of numbers in the black community, especially among straight women, is undeniable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: What we're really seeing, Judy, is that the face of HIV/AIDS is changing. It's a different disease in the West than it is in the South and different than from the Northeast. So it's very hard to quantify or to specifically say that a certain demographic is more likely to have HIV/AIDS. But, again, really surprising that among African-American straight women, they are the fastest growing group right now -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So, Sanjay, you don't see this among white, Caucasian straight women? GUPTA: Yes, talking about the down low specifically, at least not -- a lot of people have been studying this, trying to figure out exactly why it is among the African-American community specifically.

But as was said in the piece, not everyone believes the down low really exists or is to blame, more that the African-Americans started paying attention to HIV/AIDS later, that the access to care is more difficult, and that poverty may play an issue, as well as I.V. drug use. But this down low sort of interesting in terms of people actually spreading it to a straight community -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Tomorrow, HIV over 50. The statistics will likely shock you. And they show that older doesn't necessarily mean wiser.

And you can see the entire series this Sunday night in a CNN special presentation: "Are You Positive?" It is hosted by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That's at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.

A real-life drama for a popular reality TV family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OZZY OSBOURNE, MUSICIAN: There was only one person in the room that I took on. I acted just purely on impulse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: The Osbournes robbed. We'll hear more from them next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: For entertainer Ozzy Osbourne and his wife, Sharon, the ordeal they experienced at their English mansion wasn't a reality television skit, but it was real.

Geraint Vincent has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERAINT VINCENT, ITV REPORTER (voice-over): The financial cost of being burgled is not something this fabulously successful couple has to worry about. But this morning, the trauma was obvious, as was the sentimental value of the things they had lost.

S. OSBOURNE: That is my wedding ring that, again, Ozzy bought me, because it was a 10. And he always said I was a perfect 10. And he always said that, when he had the money, he would buy me a 10-karat diamond ring. And he did.

VINCENT (on camera): When the break-in happened, Ozzy and Sharon were asleep in bed here at their Buckinghamshire mansion. The burglars used stepladders to get into the first floor, where they went through a number of bedrooms, collecting a haul thought to be worth up to two million pounds.

(voice-over): Ozzy woke up to go to the toilet in the middle of the night. He wondered into Sharon's dressing room and saw something moving. When he noticed the room was in disarray, he realized they were being burgled. The 55-year-old rocker dived on to the intruder and grabbed him a headlock. But as the burglar dangled out of the window, he broke free, dropping 30 feet to make his escape.

(on camera): Ozzy, Geraint Vincent, ITV News.

You could have been badly hurt here. Can you just tell me what made you take these guys on?

O. OSBOURNE: There was only one person in the room that I took on. I acted just purely on impulse.

VINCENT (voice-over): Instinct, it may have been. But would he do the same thing again?

O. OSBOURNE: Is the pope a Catholic?

VINCENT: The lives of these two celebrities, who are so clearly devoted to each other, have been full of ups and downs, many of them shown on television. In true Osbourne style, they're getting through this latest crisis on camera.

Geraint Vincent, ITV News, Buckinghamshire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Well, the results of our Web question of the day next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Here's how you are weighing in our Web question of the day. Will Dan Rather's decision to step down from the anchor chair help or hurt CBS? Sixty-six percent of you say help, while 34 percent of you say hurt. As always, this is not a scientific poll.

A sign of the season here in the nation's capital. It is our picture of the day. Lynne Cheney, wife of the vice president, and her three granddaughters took part in the ceremony topping the National Christmas tree this morning. President Bush will officially light the 40-foot Colorado blue spruce on December 2.

And a reminder that you can always catch "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" weekdays at this time, 5:00 Eastern. I'll also see you again tomorrow. Thank you for joining us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 23, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now. A country on the brink. Tens of thousands of protesters are in a fury over possible fraud. Is a former Soviet republic heading toward civil war? Now the White House speaks out.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Weighing anchor. Under fire, Dan Rather decides to step down, after a quarter century as the symbol of CBS News.

Plot foiled? The queen announces new anti-terror measures, but has Britain already prevented its own 9/11?

"Alexander."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hero, a macho war hero. He's a bisexual or what they call bisexual.

WOODRUFF: We'll speak with controversial director Oliver Stone about his conversational new epic.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, November 23, 2004.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Hello. I'm Judy Woodruff. Wolf is off today. A surprise announcement this day of a very rare opening in what is arguably the most exclusive club in this industry, network news anchor. Dan Rather says he will step down from CBS flagship newscast. CNN's Chris Huntington begins our coverage from New York. Hello, Chris.

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dan Rather's remarkable career spanned seven presidential administrations. He covered Vietnam, Watergate and, of course, right on through to the current war in Iraq. But at age 73, Rather is choosing to step away from the limelight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Dan Rather will step down as the editor of the "CBS Evening News" on March 9 after 24 years. That's longer than any other network news anchor, even Walter Cronkite who held the post for 19 years. In a statement, Rather said "I have always said that I would know when the time was right to step away from the anchor chair. This past summer, CBS and I began to discuss this matter in earnest and we decided that the close of the election cycle would be an appropriate time."

Throughout his 40-year career with CBS Rather had a reporter's knack for finding controversy. He found himself in a mess this summer when "60 Minutes" used a questionable document in a report critical of President Bush's service with the Texas Air National Guard. CBS and Rather were forced to concede they could not prove the authenticity of a letter allegedly written by a National Guard commander criticizing then airman Bush's conduct. CBS has asked former attorney general Richard Thornburgh to oversee an investigation of that "60 Minutes" report. A CBS spokesman tells CNN, quote, "Rather's decision to step down is independent of that investigation," end quote. Andy Rooney, the sage of "60 Minutes" put Rather's pending retirement into perspective.

ANDY ROONEY, "60 MINUTES": Oh, I think he is probably ready to do it. I think it's a good thing to do. He is about 15 years after Cronkite stepped down, that much older. So he has had a good run. It's been great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would you like to see in the anchor chair?

ROONEY: Oh, I don't. I wouldn't suggest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HUNTINGTON: And CBS is not saying anything about who Rather's successor will be right now either, although the speculation points to the leading candidates as John Roberts, the current CBS White House correspondent and Scott Pelley, a correspondent on "60 Minutes II." CBS did make the point of saying that Dan Rather will stay on full time as a correspondent on both editions of "60 Minutes" -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: He will be there, it sounds like, for years to come. Chris Huntington, thank you very much.

Rather's career at CBS is in its fifth decade and some of them have been seen more controversy than others but it all started with the story of a lifetime and a national tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Dan Rather catapulted into the public spotlight the day president John Kennedy was assassinated. In just his second year as a CBS news correspondent Rather broke the news that Kennedy had died. Rather soon became the network's White House correspondent and his reports on the Watergate scandal made him the target of conservative criticism. At a contentious 1974 news conference, president Richard Nixon asked Rather if he was running for something. Rather's reply, no, sir. Are you? Despite his run-ins with Nixon, or perhaps because of them, his star continued to rise and in 1981, he became anchor of the "CBS Evening News." Though his predecessor in the job, Walter Cronkite, had been called the most trusted man in America, Rather proved to be, at times, a controversial choice. While his reporting earned multiple Emmys, he also was the target of occasional criticism. Some fellow journalists questioned Rather's election night analogies.

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: If we say somebody has carried the state, you can pretty much take it to the bank, book it that that's true.

WOODRUFF: For one week in 1986, Rather puzzled his viewers by signing off his news cast with the ominous-sounding word "courage." In a bizarre incident that same year, Rather was roughed up on a Manhattan sidewalk by a man asking the question, "Kenneth, what is the frequency?" Then there was the day when coverage of a tennis tournament delayed the start of the "CBS Evening News" and Rather walked off the set, leaving network affiliates with a blank screen. During a 1988 interview, when Rather pressed then vice president George Bush about the Iran-Contra scandal, Bush threw that incident back in Rather's face.

RATHER: I don't want to be argument...

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not a great night because I want to talk about why I want to be president, why those 41 percent of the people are supporting me. And I don't think it's fair to judge my whole career by a rehash on Iran. How would you like it if I judge your career by those seven minutes when you walked off the set in New York?

WOODRUFF: Like his Watergate confrontation with President Nixon, Rather's 1988 argument with vice president Bush fueled conservative charges Rather was biased. Those were charges that only grew louder this year, when CBS was forced to retract its story about George W. Bush's National Guard record.

RATHER: I made a mistake. I didn't dig hard enough, long enough, didn't ask enough of the right questions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: For more on Dan Rather's pending departure, I'm joined by Alex Jones with the Shorenstein Center on Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University. Thank you for being here. This investigation into what happened with that National Guard story is not finished yet. Why is Dan Rather stepping down now, do you think?

ALEX JONES, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, my guess is that he wanted to get in front of it. I'm sure it's going to be embarrassing for him in some respects. I don't think it's going to be the thing that defines his distinguished career and I regard it as a distinguished career, but I think certainly if I were in Dan Rather's shoes, it might have occurred to me that this was the right time.

WOODRUFF: Are conservatives -- do they have a legitimate complaint about Dan Rather?

JONES: I don't think so. I think Dan Rather was an equal opportunity assailer of presidents and the powerful. I think that some of the things that Dan Rather was criticized for are among the things I like him best for. I mean, I remember -- I was watching that press conference when he spoke back to president Nixon and I thought, right on. I mean, the point was, the president asked him or said a disrespectful thing to him and Dan Rather said a disrespectful thing back or it was a wisecrack. He got criticized roundly for that but I thought what that said was you can't bully me and I'm not going to go away and I think Dan Rather has been a highly principled indefatigable journalist for his career, and I salute him for that.

Frankly, oddly enough, now that he is going to be leaving the anchor's chair and going to "60 Minutes" and he has this incident with George W. Bush hanging over his head, he's going to have something to prove and my guess is he's going to throw himself into reporting again. And who knows what will happen. I think it will be good for journalism.

WOODRUFF: If he has been as principled and straight arrow as you suggest, why was he been such a lightning rod?

JONES: Well, because I think that he has been in the traditional of journalists that ask blunt questions and do that thing, especially over television, that looks like argumentative badgering. You say, but you didn't answer the question. But you didn't answer the question. How many times can you say that without looking like you're the bad guy when, in fact, the person you're asking often a very legitimate question of simply declines to answer?

WOODRUFF: With Dan Rather moving on in March, with Tom Brokaw stepping aside in a few days, where do you see network news headed?

JONES: I think it's still the most powerful aggregator of a news audience that exists. So it's sort of, in relative terms, it has declined but it's still very important. I think that the person who fills that seat is likely to be as close to an iconic figure as CBS can come up with. I think that while they may go inside I think it's equally likely they would look outside CBS and find the person they think would most likely to bring an audience, to attract an audience to CBS. And I think that that suggests that as long as the network is going to be in the news business, that is going to be their marquee spot. This is going to be a very good job in journalism for a long time to come. I certainly hope that's true anyway. I think it's going to be important for CBS to choose someone for that spot that's going to say we consider this to be very important.

WOODRUFF: Do you want to speculate on some names?

JONES: Well, what about you?

WOODRUFF: Seriously.

JONES: I'm quite serious. I think that of the people who are outside the CBS, you know, world, I'm just going to say these names that come to my mind. You, Diane Sawyer and Tim Russert. Those are the three that come right off the top of my head.

WOODRUFF: Well, you mentioned Diane Sawyer, do you think a network would turn to a woman?

JONES: I don't see why not. I mean, the thing is, I think that the network will turn to the person they think can bring credibility in an audience, and I think that, you know, women have already demonstrated that they can certainly do that.

WOODRUFF: Alex Jones, what about -- there's so much discussion about cable news overtaking the networks in a number of different ways. You don't necessarily share that perspective. Is that what you're saying?

JONES: Well, it's not that I don't have any lack of understanding of the power of cable news. I think cable news has been a phenomenon and I think it's only going to grow. But I do also think that as long as there is a commitment by the three major networks to news, the network's nightly news show is going to be that iconic place, it's going to be that place where the largest audience gathers. And I think as long as that is true, the person who sits in Dan Rather's chair is going to have a great forum for doing the kind of broadcast news that can make a difference. It's going to be a great job. That's going to go on.

WOODRUFF: But you still have an audience that is increasingly dispersed with many different choices from where to get their news and many different times of day to get their news.

JONES: That's why you pick the person that you believe can add excitement and credibility and can attract a crowd.

WOODRUFF: Well, on that note, we're going to leave it there. Alex Jones, who is -- who runs the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University, very good to see you.

JONES: Good to see you, Judy. Bye-bye.

WOODRUFF: Thank you for talking to us. We appreciate it.

To our viewers, here's now your turn to weigh in on this story, our Web question of the day is this: Will Dan Rather's decision to step down from the anchor chair help or hurt CBS? You can vote right now at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

Key members of Congress point to the Pentagon as being behind the collapse of the intelligence reform bill. But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is denying that he had anything to do with torpedoing the legislation. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.

Hello, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, it's no secret that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and others in the Pentagon are worried that having a separate intelligence could slow the flow of intelligence to battlefield commanders, but Rumsfeld denies he did anything to scuttle reform.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who opposed the plan, insists once President Bush decided to support it he saluted smartly.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Needless to say, I'm a part of this administration. I support the president's decision.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld bristled at charges leveled by Connecticut Congressman Christopher Shays that he blatantly opposing the Senate version of the bill supported by the White House, and flatly denied a "New York Times" editorial that said despite Mr. Rumsfeld's denials, it seems obvious he lobbied against the president's stated policy.

RUMSFELD: "The New York Times" is wrong. The congressmen who are saying that I had blatant opposition to the bill is incorrect.

MCINTYRE: Joint Chiefs Chairman General Richard Myers did support a House version opposed by the Bush administration in a letter requested by and sent to Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. Myers writes: "The House bill maintains this is vital flow through the secretary of deference. It is my recommendation that this critical provision be preserved."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: General Myers, unlike Rumsfeld, is required by Congress as a condition of his confirmation, to give his advice without any political influence. The White House says neither Rumsfeld or Myers is in any trouble. Both expressed their concerns properly -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jamie, where do you see this headed?

MCINTYRE: Well, congressional negotiators have offered a number of compromises to try to address the Pentagon's concern. But so far, there has been no resolution over the impasse over the bill.

WOODRUFF: It's not clear whether they're going to come back together in December or wait until January. All right. Jamie, thank you very much.

In Iraq, 5,000 U.S., British and Iraqi troops have launched a new campaign against insurgents in Babil province, a volatile region south of Baghdad. The U.S. military says an upsurge in attacks there may be blamed in part on insurgents who escaped from Falluja.

As an international conference on Iraq ended today in Egypt, Secretary of State Colin Powell said that he thinks Iraq can be stabilized before the scheduled January election. Speaking with CNN chief correspondent Christiane Amanpour, Powell also described the nuclear program in neighboring Iran. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that over time the kinds of missile developments that Iran has been involved in and some recent information that I have seen suggests to me that it is part of a broader program that could lead to the development of a nuclear weapon. They don't have it yet. But if, as we suspect, they have been working on nuclear weapons development -- and I mean, the E.U. 3 is engaged with Iran because they had the same suspicion. The IAEA found out things that they didn't know about and they had the same suspicion. That's why such a spotlight is being put on Iran right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Colin Powell talking to our Christiane Amanpour.

A royal warning terrorists may be targeting Britain. But now word the country may have already averted a major attack. We'll have details.

Also, tens of thousands take to the streets in the capital of a former Soviet republic. We'll show you why.

And this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVER STONE, DIRECTOR, "ALEXANDER": I never tried to exploit something, I've tried to make it dramatic. And I don't want to distort the truth. I have no desire to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: But that's not what some critics are saying about Oliver Stone's latest movie, the controversial director talks to us about "Alexander."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Tens of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets of a former Soviet satellite republic for the third straight day, demanding the results of the Ukraine's presidential election be overturned. Joining me is our national security correspondent David Ensor -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Judy, U.S. officials worry about the potential for violence in the Ukraine and what that could lead to.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): With tens of thousands protesting on the streets of Kiev, the White House says it is deeply disturbed by what election observers like Senator Richard Lugar say appears to be an attempt to steal the presidential election. ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPT. SPOKESMAN: There is a widespread perception in Ukraine over the fairness, widespread perception that the elections were not free, were not fair, and do not reflect the will of the people.

ENSOR: The White House is urging Ukraine's authorities not to certify the results. With most of the votes counted, opposition candidate Viktor Yuschenko, a pro-Western moderate nationalist, is narrowly losing the vote to Russian-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich, according to Ukraine's election authorities. Yuschenko is charging massive vote fraud in a nation of 50 million, bordered by NATO member Poland on one side, by Russia on the other.

With the protesting crowds in Ukraine growing, Washington is urging authorities not to use force against their own people.

MICHAEL MCFAIL, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: The last thing the United States wants and our European allies, is a major civil war in Europe. That's what this could become.

ENSOR: American and European diplomats are urging Ukraine to conduct a serious inquiry and a recount. They're urging the same to Ukraine's all-important neighbor to the east, Vladimir Putin of Russia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: But beyond warning against violence and expressing outrage, there may not be a great deal that the West can do to effect the outcome, Judy.

WOODRUFF: So what are your sources in the intelligence community, David, what do they think Putin is going to do?

ENSOR: Really hard to say, but that is the key question. He has, of course, favored the candidate who will win this election unless there is a recount, a pro-Russian candidate. Whether if there were to be violence, the Russians would feel they needed to intervene militarily or not -- one certainly hopes not -- but that will create a very large crisis.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and there will be some kind of a deal worked out, perhaps even a recount in the Ukraine. But it's a very worrying situation. U.S. officials are watching it very closely.

WOODRUFF: And in any event, very unlikely that the U.S. would get directly involved?

ENSOR: Doesn't have a lot of leverage. It could say, you know, cut off travel for certain people. There's some aid involved, but Russia has most of the leverage.

WOODRUFF: We hear you. David Ensor, thank you very much, our national security correspondent. We appreciate it. From London, word that Britain may have thwarted a major terror plot. It comes as the government unveils plans for a new policy agency, and compulsory identity cards linked to a national database. The measures were signaled with full pomp and pageantry, at the queen's opening of Parliament.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEEN ELIZABETH II, UNITED KINGDOM: My government recognizes that we live in a time of global uncertainty, with an increased threat from international terrorism and organized crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: One question, has Britain already averted its own 9/11-style attack? Here is ITN's Nick Robinson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK ROBINSON, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's one of the capital's most famous landmarks, it's the financial heart of London's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). People who work here know it's a potential target. Hundreds have been trained how to respond in what the police call Operation Britain (ph).

These pictures are a horrific reminder of the terrible consequences, previously unthinkable, of flying a plane into a building. A reminder, too, of how easy it proved. A passenger who trained as a pilot strolled through airport security, his heart set on suicide and mass murder.

I'm told that the plan for an attack on Canary Wharf also involved terrorists who trained as pilots. I've not been told how or when it was uncovered, or how close they came, but this was not the only target. The terrorists were also plotting its claim to crash planes into Heathrow Airport.

This revelation comes just days after the Home Secretary David Blunkett warned that al Qaeda are on our doorstep and threatening our lives. The threat, he said, will be demonstrated through the courts in the months to come.

The head of the Metropolitan Police, Sir John Stevens, claimed last week that "we have thwarted a number of attacks, we've disrupted them." And MI-5's head, Eliza Manningham-Buller, recently told an employers conference that their businesses should prepare for terrorist attacks.

The authorities have always been reluctant to reveal the orders they're given, but a year and a half ago, they had no choice. The army surrounded Heathrow. The government were accused of scare- mongering, but they and their advisers insisted then and do today that they had a real warning of shoulder-launched missiles being used to down a plane.

In recent months, MI-5's budget has been doubled. New recruits soared, and a unit created to filter all intelligence received. Security at airports has been stepped up here, in the United States, and in much of Europe, although intelligence experts are now focusing on what they believe to be weakest security systems, in Eastern Europe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: That was reporter Nick Robinson of Britain's ITN.

HIV and what is known as the down low, the potentially deadly secret some blame for soaring infection rates among African-American women.

Also, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVER STONE, DIRECTOR: If you talk to 99 percent of the respected historians of Alexander, and they will tell you without doubt that he was -- was a bisexual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Director Oliver Stone on the controversy surrounding his new movie about Alexander the Great.

And later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON OSBOURNE: My wedding ring (UNINTELLIGIBLE) again. Ozzy bought me because it was a 10, and he always said I was a perfect 10.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: A popular reality TV family robbed. Details of their real-life drama.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: First, John F. Kennedy, then Richard Nixon. And now Alexander the Great. Oliver Stone has done it again. The director's $150 million film on the warrior king opens nationwide tomorrow. And like his films on JFK and Nixon, this one is generating controversy. CNN's Mary Snow talked to Oliver Stone today, and she joins us live in New York. Hello, Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Judy. And you know, like his other films on prominent figures, Oliver Stone's "Alexander" includes chapters that the history books left out. But this one breaks new ground. I sat down and spoke today with Oliver Stone about "Alexander the Great," the conqueror and the controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conquer your fear and I promise you, you will conquer death.

SNOW (voice-over): Oliver Stone says his depiction was done authentically, with respect for Alexander the Great, but the movie has generated controversy over Alexander's sexuality.

(on camera): What do you think is the most conversational thing about Alexander the Great that would surprise people?

STONE: I think they've already been surprised, and they've raised a few issues about the fact that our hero, a macho war hero, is a bisexual. What they call bisexual, in Greek times they didn't use those terminologies. Polymorphous would be more exact.

He was a man -- Alexander was a man who wanted to go, frankly, to the end of himself, to the end of the world. He wanted to go beyond Aristotle in all the things he had been taught. He wanted to see what was beyond the maps. And, I think, in the same way, he explored himself, his sexuality, his love. He went through every emotion to the fullest.

But everybody dies, but not everybody lives fully. And I think Alexander is perhaps the single greatest individual in history to whom so much happened, maybe Jesus is on that level of things happening to him, but Alexander had so many cultures, so many countries, 50 battles, and he won them all. Military genius, conqueror, at the same time, generous in victory, and included the people that he conquered, their armies, their children.

He, himself, married an Oriental. He was an expander and a builder of cities, don't forget.

SNOW: What do you say to critics who say that you exploit historical gray areas in order to generate movie audiences?

STONE: I have no response to that unless it's specific.

I never try to exploit something. I try to make it dramatic. And I don't want to distort the truth. I have no desire to. On the movie, we had consultants everywhere, including Robin Lane Fox from Oxford, who wrote a great book on Alexander in 1973. He was with there. He vetted the script, was with us all the time. We had military advisers, Babylonian adviser, Egyptian adviser, Bactrian adviser, Indian adviser. We tried hard to get everything right.

But we don't know exactly what happened behind closed doors. So we went with the psychological story. Some people may not like it. I love it. And a lot of people do, too.

SNOW (voice-over): Not everyone loves it. A group of attorneys in Greece say that Stone should label the movie a piece of fiction and, if he doesn't, a lawsuit may follow.

(on camera): They are threatening to sue you for portraying Alexander as a bisexual. Your response to that?

STONE: Twenty-six lawyers. Yes, no one knows who they are, but they've certainly made some noise. And the Greeks made noise before in 1997. They have a different version of Alexander's life, which is -- doesn't skew to history.

And yet, I think you can talk to 99 percent of the respected historians on Alexander and they would tell you, without doubt that he was a bisexual. And that was the way it was in those times. It was not unusual. For the Greeks to deny it is unbelievable at this stage of existence. And, furthermore, if you remember, the Greeks were never big fans of Alexander. You know that. He was a northern Greek. And they were always kind of wary of him and critical of him at that time, still are.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, a spokesman for the group of attorneys in Greece said that the group is waiting to see how Warner Brothers handled tomorrow's premiere before taking any action. Now, Warner Brothers is owned by Time Warner, the same parent company as CNN. It had no comment on the threat of a lawsuit -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Mary, you're going to stay with us. We're going to see more of Mary's interview with director Oliver Stone ahead, including strong remarks on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

NBA brawl fallout, new action taken to reduce the penalties imposed on the athletes involved in the fight.

Election investigation, lingering questions on electronic voting problems. Now the government gets involved.

Holiday travel delays, why there may be a few bumps in the road to your Thanksgiving destination.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back.

Strong statement on a defining moment in American history. Director Oliver Stone weighs in on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

But, first, a quick check of other stories now in the news.

U.S. Agriculture officials have just released the results of their test on an animal with suspected mad cow disease. And it is good news for the cattle industry. Officials say the test came back negative, meaning the animal does not have the brain-wasting disease.

Bail is set at $2.5 million for a man suspected of fatally shooting six deer hunters. The sixth victim died yesterday, one day after the shootings in northwest Wisconsin. According to court documents, 36-year-old Chai Vang accuses the hunters of shooting first.

The NBA Players Union has filed an appeal over the suspensions that commissioner David Stern handed out after last week's brawl in Detroit. The union wants an arbitrator to decide whether the suspensions should be reduced.

Democrats say the Government Accountability Office has agreed to their request to review some alleged irregularities during the recent elections. Several congressional Democrats say they're concerned about the security and the accuracy of voting technologies, the distribution of voting machines and the counting of provisional ballots.

Travelers beginning Thanksgiving weekend trips tomorrow are being warned to brace for possible delays. Heavy volume is expected to delay airline trips. And forecasters say snow, rain and fog could slow motorists.

Over a career that has produced several box office hits Oliver Stone has been criticized often for taking liberties with historical facts. And he has already come under fire over his latest film, "Alexander," which opens nationwide tomorrow.

CNN's Mary Snow joins us again from New York for more on her interview today with Oliver Stone.

Hello again, Mary.

SNOW: Hi there, Judy.

And while Oliver Stone is passionate about "Alexander," he had some heated moments when he revisited the movie he made about the JFK assassination and the conspiracy theory behind it.

We spoke about that early today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: You take a look back at your career, your movie about JFK, your movie about Richard Nixon, and now this movie, which one do you think is more true to history? Is this one more to history than the other two?

STONE: Different movies.

Certainly, "Alexander," we don't know as much about Alexander, because all the records basically were destroyed. We are going off a limited set of knowledge, which Robin Lane Fox outlines in his book. But Nixon, we know a lot. And we did a lot of research. I would remind you that we put out a huge compendium, a book, for "JFK" with everything we did, all the details, all the footnotes of what we -- we didn't hide anything.

Same thing on "Nixon." We got killed by some people in the press who didn't bother to read it. And "JFK," by the way, is not a statement. It's been misunderstood. It's a question. It's a deconstruction, a hypothesis of what's wrong with the Warren Commission. And it raises the questions. It doesn't answer them. And I'm so tired of people walking around for years saying, Oliver Stone has 40 federal agencies killing Kennedy and including Lyndon Johnson. This is nonsense. This is not in the movie. Please see it again.

SNOW (voice-over): The Warren Commission concluded there was no evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was part of a conspiracy. Despite its conclusions, Stone is adamant that Oswald did not pull the trigger.

(on camera): This week, there is a very conversational video game that was released by a maker in the U.K. depicting the JFK assassination. And although there's been a big backlash against it, the creator said, listen, I'm doing this in the interest in history. Do you have a comment on that?

STONE: Well, I think it's a shame. It's bad taste.

Furthermore, Lee Harvey Oswald did not shoot Kennedy, whatever they establish and the critics say. And to have him in the game shooting Kennedy is insane. Plus, it's a stupid idea. And it's ugly. It teaches kids the wrong thing. It sounds horrible.

SNOW: And, finally, yesterday was the 41st anniversary of the assassination of JFK.

STONE: Yes. Yes.

SNOW: History books still have it wrong, you think?

STONE: Totally. The establishment press has covered this up. They won't go into it. They won't even allow a reporter to investigate it.

The editors kill it. I just think it's sad that America -- it's very much like -- if you think about it -- like the Iraq war. The American public is still convinced that Mr. Hussein had weapons of mass destruction because of the media. What's going on? Do people educate themselves or think for themselves? It's the same thing.

Kennedy at the time -- and most people knew something was fishy. It's too bad that time goes by and you have the Peter Jennings of the world, they get on the air and they repeat it and they repeat it and they repeat it, Oswald did it alone, case closed. What smug arrogance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, Stone is referring to a documentary done last year by Peter Jennings which concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman. In response to Stone's comments, a spokesperson for ABC says that the documentary won a number of awards, including an Emmy and an Edward R. Murrow Award, saying -- quote -- "We believe our work on this documentary speaks for itself" -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Mary Snow, thanks very much for a very interesting interview with Oliver Stone. We appreciate it.

SNOW: Sure. WOODRUFF: HIV and what could be a potentially deadly secret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA JOHNSON, HIV POSITIVE: But it was still difficult for him to come right out and say either my preference or my orientation is to have sex with men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: It's known as the down low, and some say it is causing a rise in HIV among African-American women. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains.

Also ahead:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON OSBOURNE, TALK SHOW HOST: And he always said that, when he had the money, he would buy me a 10-karat diamond ring. And he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Stolen Jewels. Burglars get away with a sentimental item from the home of Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne.

And, later, the topping of the National Christmas Tree.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(APPLAUSE)

ZAHN: All this week, CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is looking at the new reality of HIV and AIDS, today, the soaring rate among African-American women. Some say it's the secret lives of their men that may be to blame.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from New York -- hello, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good evening, Judy.

It's called the down low. That's what a lot of people refer to it as. We're talking about African-American straight women who have the highest soaring rates of HIV now in the country, the fastest growing. The face of HIV/AIDS has changed a significant amount since people thought of it as the gay white plague. This is one woman's story as to why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNSON: She's slowing down.

GUPTA (voice-over): Forty-six-year-old Vanessa Johnson has already lived twice as long as her doctors told her she would. JOHNSON: Love you, too.

GUPTA: In 1990, she was a young law student and mother of a 6- year-old son when she was diagnosed with HIV and told she had seven years to live.

JOHNSON: That scared me to death. I didn't want to suffer. And I knew that people suffered from this disease.

GUPTA: She suspects she was infected by her high school sweetheart. Although they never married, they dated for 18 years and had a child. He died of AIDS in 1994. She says now all the signs were there. He did have affairs and she believes some of them were with men.

JOHNSON: He had a lot of gay friends. He, at the end, would say things to try to let me know, to try to affirm what I already knew. But it was still difficult for him to come right out and say either my preference or my orientation is to have sex with men.

GUPTA: This situation isn't unique. And it's called the down low, men who have wives or girlfriends and have sex with other men. Although some are claiming the down low is responsible for much of the increase in HIV infection among black straight women, many experts are saying it just isn't so.

RASHAD BURGESS, CDC: When we look at African-American men who have sex with men that do not disclose their sexual activities or sexual orientation, we actually find that they are less likely to have high-risk behavior and less likely to be HIV-positive.

DR. DAVID MALEBRANCHE, EMORY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: We can't really say for sure how much of a contribution this is having to the HIV infection rates among black women.

GUPTA: Experts say the reasons are many, that, in the black community, AIDS was originally thought of as a gay white man's disease and was not even on the radar scene. Add to that poverty, I.V. drug use and the fact that blacks don't have same access to primary health care.

Whatever the reason, the explosion of numbers in the black community, especially among straight women, is undeniable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: What we're really seeing, Judy, is that the face of HIV/AIDS is changing. It's a different disease in the West than it is in the South and different than from the Northeast. So it's very hard to quantify or to specifically say that a certain demographic is more likely to have HIV/AIDS. But, again, really surprising that among African-American straight women, they are the fastest growing group right now -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So, Sanjay, you don't see this among white, Caucasian straight women? GUPTA: Yes, talking about the down low specifically, at least not -- a lot of people have been studying this, trying to figure out exactly why it is among the African-American community specifically.

But as was said in the piece, not everyone believes the down low really exists or is to blame, more that the African-Americans started paying attention to HIV/AIDS later, that the access to care is more difficult, and that poverty may play an issue, as well as I.V. drug use. But this down low sort of interesting in terms of people actually spreading it to a straight community -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Tomorrow, HIV over 50. The statistics will likely shock you. And they show that older doesn't necessarily mean wiser.

And you can see the entire series this Sunday night in a CNN special presentation: "Are You Positive?" It is hosted by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That's at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.

A real-life drama for a popular reality TV family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OZZY OSBOURNE, MUSICIAN: There was only one person in the room that I took on. I acted just purely on impulse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: The Osbournes robbed. We'll hear more from them next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: For entertainer Ozzy Osbourne and his wife, Sharon, the ordeal they experienced at their English mansion wasn't a reality television skit, but it was real.

Geraint Vincent has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERAINT VINCENT, ITV REPORTER (voice-over): The financial cost of being burgled is not something this fabulously successful couple has to worry about. But this morning, the trauma was obvious, as was the sentimental value of the things they had lost.

S. OSBOURNE: That is my wedding ring that, again, Ozzy bought me, because it was a 10. And he always said I was a perfect 10. And he always said that, when he had the money, he would buy me a 10-karat diamond ring. And he did.

VINCENT (on camera): When the break-in happened, Ozzy and Sharon were asleep in bed here at their Buckinghamshire mansion. The burglars used stepladders to get into the first floor, where they went through a number of bedrooms, collecting a haul thought to be worth up to two million pounds.

(voice-over): Ozzy woke up to go to the toilet in the middle of the night. He wondered into Sharon's dressing room and saw something moving. When he noticed the room was in disarray, he realized they were being burgled. The 55-year-old rocker dived on to the intruder and grabbed him a headlock. But as the burglar dangled out of the window, he broke free, dropping 30 feet to make his escape.

(on camera): Ozzy, Geraint Vincent, ITV News.

You could have been badly hurt here. Can you just tell me what made you take these guys on?

O. OSBOURNE: There was only one person in the room that I took on. I acted just purely on impulse.

VINCENT (voice-over): Instinct, it may have been. But would he do the same thing again?

O. OSBOURNE: Is the pope a Catholic?

VINCENT: The lives of these two celebrities, who are so clearly devoted to each other, have been full of ups and downs, many of them shown on television. In true Osbourne style, they're getting through this latest crisis on camera.

Geraint Vincent, ITV News, Buckinghamshire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Well, the results of our Web question of the day next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Here's how you are weighing in our Web question of the day. Will Dan Rather's decision to step down from the anchor chair help or hurt CBS? Sixty-six percent of you say help, while 34 percent of you say hurt. As always, this is not a scientific poll.

A sign of the season here in the nation's capital. It is our picture of the day. Lynne Cheney, wife of the vice president, and her three granddaughters took part in the ceremony topping the National Christmas tree this morning. President Bush will officially light the 40-foot Colorado blue spruce on December 2.

And a reminder that you can always catch "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" weekdays at this time, 5:00 Eastern. I'll also see you again tomorrow. Thank you for joining us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com