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American Morning

'Paging Dr. Gupta'; Some Women Say New, More Aggressive Body Searches Go Too Far

Aired November 24, 2004 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The holiday travel rush is on. The FAA is says there will be more flights nationwide today than any other day this year. But delays possible. At this very hour, in fact, snow, rain, fog, hampering travel from Boston to Los Angeles. That's kind of the whole country, isn't it? Chad Myers is going to tell us what's in store for your part of the country, coming up in just a little bit.
Meanwhile, more people may have access to weapons of mass destruction than previously thought. A new CIA report suggests governments may be sharing WMD technology with each other and with various other groups, including terror organizations. The report doesn't specify which countries might pose the most concern.

The Army National Guard Looking for a few good men. The Guard was more than 30 percent below its target last month. It's part of a downward slide that began last year, decreasing recruitment among Americans with prior military experience is partly blamed for the decline.

And President Bush and the first lady getting ready to spread some holiday cheer. The White House Christmas card being unveiled. It highlights the red room and was designed by Cindy Holtz (ph) of Ft. Worth, Texas. The president and Mrs. Bush expected to send out some two million Christmas cards to friends and families and world leaders this season. We're not sure what it looks like. But we're waiting.

O'BRIEN: It's beautiful, and it's lovely and it's appropriately decorated.

COLLINS: We're going to show it to you a little bit later for those people who are curious about that.

O'BRIEN: That's exciting.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: The Thanksgiving travel rush already well under way, as we've heard, but the long lines, it's not that that has some airline passengers in arms. Women who've been subjected to new, more aggressive body searches say those searches go too far.

Rhonda Gaynier claims that she was violated by airport screeners. She's considered legal action now.

Nice to see you. Thanks for coming in to talk to us. You were going from Tampa to New York, when you were pulled aside for a second screening. What happened?

RHONDA GAYNIER: I was selected by the computer that prints boarding passes for secondary screening. The way they do that is they print four S's on your boarding pass. And after I went through the metal detector, they pulled me aside to have my bags searched by one screener, and my body was patted down by another screener, which includes a breast exam, that's what I call it, for women, for all women who are selected.

O'BRIEN: You're only saying that half jokingly, because that's sort of the point of the litigation that you're considering.

What exactly -- I mean, be specific so that we can understand your complaint? What exactly happened?

GAYNIER: How did they pat me down.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

GAYNIER: They started, you know, on my shoulder, and down my side and around my back and up my other side, and then came around the front and went all the way around my breast, not with the back of the hand. They didn't tell me what they were doing in advance. They just, on both sides, went all the way around my breast.

O'BRIEN: This was a man or woman.

GAYNIER: A woman.

O'BRIEN: Did you say anything to her.

GAYNIER: Well, when I first objected to my screening, I wasn't allowed to board my scheduled flight back to New York. I had to go to another airlines and purchase a one-way ticket. I was selected again with the four S's on my boarding pass. And at the second time I allowed them to do it, because I had already been refused boarding on my scheduled flight. I needed to get back to New York, so I let them do it.

O'BRIEN: Are you angry at that screener, because they screener sort of went out of bounds of the rules, or do you think the rules are just totally wrong?

GAYNIER: The rules are totally wrong. I'm sure the screener was doing her job, but it was totally humiliating and offensive. And I think, it's just another erosion of our rights in the name of airline security. And I don't feel any more secure having been violated in that manner.

O'BRIEN: Here's what the TSA had to say about complaints like yours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ADM. DAVID STONE, TSA ADMINISTRATOR: We need to have very robust security in the world that we live in today. In fact, the return to the pre-9/11 levels, we believe, is the result of the confidence in the security of aviation. So we're quite pleased with that. But we know that our job is to continue to improve. When people point out where we fall short, to immediately take that for action and work on it. And that trust and binding together between our screeners and the traveling public is something we work on everyday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: There are those who say, you've to give up something if you want to be secured, because frankly, women can carrying concealed explosives in our bra. I mean, that's basically what they're searching for.

GAYNIER: But if we don't stop now, there has to be a line. And lots of women that I talked to agree the TSA crosses the line when they start patting passengers down and start patting women's breasts down. And if we don't stop now, when are we going to stop? When are they going to start requiring strip searches or cavity searches at the airport?

O'BRIEN: What about the argument that says, hey, you know what, no one's making you fly; you could drive.

GAYNIER: That's very coercive to be in an airport, 1,200 miles away from where I could go, and say, you can get back another way. Go take a train, drive a car. I wasn't in a position that day to spend two days in a train or a car to get back from Florida to New York.

O'BRIEN: Will you file a lawsuit?

GAYNIER: If TSA stops the pat-downs I won't, but that's what it takes to get them to stop, I will.

O'BRIEN: Rhonda Gaynier, thanks for sharing your story with us. Appreciate it.

GAYNIER: Appreciate your time -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, 23 minutes before the hour.

Dan Rather at CBS announcing yesterday after 24 years at the desk, he's leaving CBS Evening News in early March. Was he forced to go early, or is this all part of a bigger CBS plan? We'll talk about it this morning with Democratic strategist Victor Kamber down in D.C.

Vic, good morning. Nice to have you back with us.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill. Happy Thanksgiving.

HEMMER: Well, thank you, and to you as well.

KAMBER: Thank you. HEMMER: Also former RNC communications director Cliff May in Washington here to talk about that matter, and also what's happening at the Pentagon.

Victor, start us off. Was Dan Rather pushed?

KAMBER: I don't think so. I think the Republicans would love to think so. Conservatives would love to think so. I think the reality is it's -- first of all, he's 73. Secondly, 24 years, I guess, on March, in March that he'll have served. And, No. 3, most importantly, his ratings are down. CBS has been low in the ratings pool of the three networks, or four networks. And I think CBS wants to try to build it and change. He's staying at "60 Minutes," so he's not out.

KAMBER: He certainly has his enemies over the year, and they come from the right, directed at Dan Rather, who they believe is coming from the left.

Cliff, was he forced or not?

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Look, I don't think he planned to stay in that job for another 20 years, but the timing, I don't think was his preferable timing. Just look at Tom Brokaw. When he left, it was immediately known who his replacement would be, Brian Williams. In this case, you don't have that. It's pretty clear he's leaving after the election, but before the report comes out on the allegedly bogus documents he used for that story in the middle of an election.

HEMMER: Do we believe that report is coming out in December? Is that our understanding, about two or three weeks from now?

MAY: That's my understanding, yes. I think it's pretty clearly stated, including by people who speak for him, he wanted to leave before that report came out. If it comes out very badly for him, he'd want to leave after that, and look like it was just in response to that that he was stepping down.

HEMMER: Victor was shaking his head. Do you have more information on that then I have, Victor?

KAMBER: No, I think, I think it's the same thing. Only thing I'm frankly agreeing with Cliff in the sense that he's leaving on his terms. I mean, the question was you asked, was he forced out? He's made the decision, I think, to leave before the report came out, and maybe it did catch CBS somewhat off guard because they weren't ready with the immediate announcements. The Brokaw question had been obviously planned for a long time. I think Dan Rather, from all indications a year ago, looked at leaving at some point. The question was when, and I think he made the decision now.

MAY: I think he would have rather left on a high note than after a story like this.

KAMBER: I think that's pretty obvious.

HEMMER: I don't think anybody would disagree with that.

Let's talk about what's happening with 9/11 reform. Donald Rumsfeld yesterday say he's agrees with the White House and he has not lobbied anyone on Capitol Hill to try and block this reform legislation. Cliff, if that's the case, why hasn't it passed, especially on the House side?

MAY: Yes, let's try to understand this. I think everybody -- Victor, you, me -- everybody wants to see intelligence reform? The question is, what constitutes really good intelligence reform? Now General Richard Myers, who is the top military guy in the country, he has some misgivings about some of the things in this bill, as do some of the key committee chairman, such as Duncan Hunter of Armed Services.

Look, a few days ago the big controversy in this town was whether the president would have anybody who wasn't a yes man, anybody willing to dissent, anybody willing to say to say no, and John Kerry said, and I agree with him, "We need healthy debate." That's his quote. We need diverse opinions. Now, we're getting healthy debate, we're getting diverse opinions, we're getting somebody saying no, and people are saying, ah, why don't these people stay in line and do what they're told.

HEMMER: Look at the reality here, though, the vice president, Dick Cheney, goes to Capitol Hill and addresses them one on one. If Donald Rumsfeld wanted this passed, he could pick up the phone, probably get the same amount of feedback? You're shaking your head no?

MAY: Bill, I kind of disagree, because if you are a committee chairman, as Duncan Hunter is, you do not take orders from the president or the vice president. You have a responsibility in a co- equal branch of government, and if you feel strongly that this bill is not correct, you can't just say OK, I'll do it.

HEMMER: Something tells me Victor doesn't agree with that.

KAMBER: Well, I mean, that's the problem, is right there, is that we have a president who doesn't listen and does not want to cooperate or work with other people. I take Don Rumsfeld at his word. Let's assume he did not lying to us. He did not lobby against this legislation. The problem is the president of the United States thought he had this mandate that he can just demand anything he wants. It's a give-and-take process. Cliff's absolutely right. Sensenbrenner and Hunter have every right to say what they want to say, but the president should have called them together, should have discussed it, and presented a solid front.

MAY: You know what, we shouldn't have a solid front. We should have healthy debate. This is a debate, a discussion, not a conflict.

KAMBER: This is not the issue to have healthy debate three years after 9/11.

MAY: Bill, 70 percent of the 9/11 Commission's recommendations have already been implemented by executive order. The few areas of controversy are important.

KAMBER: The major few.

HEMMER: You guys aren't making this easy on me today, are you?

MAY: Sorry, Bill.

HEMMER: In a word, in December, Victor, does this pass, yes or no?

KAMBER: Right now, 50/50, I don't know.

HEMMER: 50/50 -- Cliff, in a word, yes or no, December, is it done before the new year?

MAY: No.

HEMMER: Wow. Come on back. Have a Happy Thanksgiving, too, by the way.

Thanks -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, don't get an uninvited guest during your holiday travels. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has details on that.

HEMMER: Also this Friday is among the biggest shopping days of the year. Why is the world's largest retailer playing it cool? Andy explains still to come this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Something else to think about as Americans embark on this year's busiest travel period. We're paging the good doctor here in New York City about a condition known as travelers thrombosis, much more common than a lot of us ever thought. Also helping us out today is our own patient, Heidi Collins, who was a victim of this, what was it, five years ago.

COLLINS: I blocked a lot of it out, but somewhere around there, yes.

HEMMER: Tell us about your story. What happened?

COLLINS: Well, I think the whole point, is, you know, you really -- you think about this happening in older people, but I'm a relatively young person, and all of a sudden developed swelling in my leg after both a flight. It was a three-hour flight, so we talk a lot about international flights and really long flights having a bearing on it, and also a big hike in Colorado. So those are the only unusual things...

HEMMER: But you were hospitalized, that's the point, right?

COLLINS: Four months.

HEMMER: You had a pretty serious condition.

COLLINS: Yes, blood clot in my leg, they told me. They found it at the Air Force Academy through an ultrasound. I had no earthly idea, just though I thought I had pulled a muscle.

HEMMER: Wow.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: An important point, because people do they of people who are older, who are obese. You're neither one of those things happily, but you still developed a deep venous (ph) thrombosis. People often think it's going to happen to the next guy.

But today, because it's the busiest travel day of the year, more people paying attention to this than ever before.

Quick animation to show you what it is that we're talking about first of all here. Talking about these about clots that sometimes develop in the deep veins of the legs. I think we have this animation. Basically what -- yes, there you go. The clot actually forms, you can see that and it propagates, extends up the vein, a little piece sometimes, and Heidi knows about this, flicks off, goes all the way up the vein into the lung. That is called a pulmonary embolism. That is potentially deadly. It is rare, and if you're someone who always thinks it'll never happen to you, it always happens to the next guy, Heidi is an example.

COLLINS: It hurts, too.

HEMMER: How do you avoid this?

It hurts?

COLLINS: Yes, when you have an embolism, yes, it felt like a -- because that, unfortunately happened during the course of this, feels like somebody has a knife in your back and moving around. Seven shots of morphine, never touched it.

HEMMER: How do we avoid this? Your advice is what?

COLLINS: My advice? I think his advice.

GUPTA: Well, let me give you some advice first of all, because I mean, this is a pretty well-known thing now, and there are some advice, especially on a day like today, again, with the heavy traveling, try and get up and walk around. These are some of the symptoms worth pointing out first, and Heidi already talked about this, but calf swelling, you get leg pain, your skin might actually get warm. Your veins may actually stick out. These might be some of your clues, but oftentimes it's impossible to diagnose without that ultra sound that you talked about.

As far as tips go, you know, try and get up and walk around on long flights and while you're waiting in the airport as well. People who are obese are going to be a little bit more predisposed to this. Drink plenty of fluids, and stay away from alcohol and caffeine and exercise those calf muscles. The biggest thing probably getting up and walking around, if you can, on the plane as well, I guess.

HEMMER: Don't want to revisit that, do you?

COLLINS: Oh, my gosh, no, horrendous.

GUPTA: Are you still on blood thinners now.

COLLINS: No, it was like three years on the blood thinners. But mine was strange. I mean, it went to the next level, it became an arterio-occlusion (ph), where the clot jumps from the vein into the artery and that's where we ended up in surgery.

HEMMER: One more thing to underline this, you both have mentioned age, and this was clearly not a factor in your case. Who is most susceptible?

GUPTA: Well, I think people who are obese, people who had recent surgery, people who have a blood clotting disorder, and I guess in your case, they never sorted that out completely. But if your blood is more likely to clot, you may be more likely to develop these as well. Some doctors will actually put you on an Aspirin or a blood thinner prior to a long flight so as to prevent this from ever happening in the first place.

HEMMER: Thank you, doctor.

GUPTA: Thank you.

HEMMER: And thank you, patient.

COLLINS: Thank you. It's important to get out there, though.

HEMMER: Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, still reaching for Christmas gift ideas? How about something from that NBA melee? That's ahead, on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

CAFFERTY: Retailers licking their chops about the upcoming holiday shopping season. And eBay offers its take on the NBA brawl, a story that will never ever go away, much to the consternation of David Stern. With that and a market preview, here's my friend Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE": Yes, Ron Artest thought the holiday news would make that story go away. But not true. All right. Lethargic, somnolent, torpid trading yesterday on Wall Street. Not a whole lot going on, in other words. You can see here, the Dow was up 3, NASDAQ and S&P down. What's going on? The dollar continues to slip, jobless claims are down, that's good. But the durable goods orders are down, too, and that's bad. Wal-Mart is not going to be releasing numbers on Black Friday. Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving, that's the Friday that is supposedly the biggest shopping day of the year. Usually retailers say we did blah or we did blah. Wal-Mart just says, we're just not going to tell you.

CAFFERTY: Yes. None of your concern.

SERWER: And when you're number one, you can do that.

CAFFERTY: Absolutely.

SERWER: We just aren't going to tell you.

CAFFERTY: All about the ratings.

SERWER: Yes. That's another story. Now here we go, eBay, America's store -- America's general store. Guess what they're selling? The blue cups from the Pacers-Pistons game that were thrown. And some guy is saying that this is the actual cup that hit...

CAFFERTY: How tasteless.

SERWER: ... that hit Ron Artest in the belly, that was filled with liquid, that made him jump out. It's not. It's not true. Don't go there, don't bid on this cup. The bidding started at about 50 cents and it went up to about $99. Unbelievable.

And they asked the guy, how can you authenticate it? And he goes, oh no, trust me, believe me. It probably -- maybe, probably, maybe was a cup that was actually picked up on the floor of the game. You know, it's just unbelievable.

CAFFERTY: If Hemmer loses his bet with me on this football game...

SERWER: Yes. Which he will.

HEMMER: Tell me more.

CAFFERTY: I'm going to put the 50 cents on eBay and try to sell it for $99.

SERWER: Yes. And you will make, you know -- you do the math on that.

O'BRIEN: You could do that.

CAFFERTY: Wednesday, "Things People Say," beginning with, if "I have to work to pay them, then I won't work. It's that simple. I'll just play golf every day." This is the perennial moron, O.J. Simpson, over his refusal to pay any of the $33.5 million civil judgment to the families of the people he murdered. He's being dragged into court now to find out if he's concealing assets and if they can maybe figure out a way to strip him of some of that stuff and give it to the families. Wish they would. "Now we've got 15 or 17 and you can't shut them up." This is Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina, who's retiring from the Senate, talking about changes that have occurred in that august body during his 38-year career. Way to go, Fritz, nice to go out on a real high note. For the record, you're wrong, there are 14 women senators in the Senate.

"I was OK with it. I think Matt Damon was the most shaken by it because he campaigned hard, he put up a good fight." Brad Pitt, the two-time Sexiest Man Alive, joking about his "Ocean's Twelve" co-star being passed over for the "People" magazine choice this year.

SERWER: Old biscuit face.

CAFFERTY: Jude Law was the winner there.

SERWER: Yes. Old biscuit face.

CAFFERTY: "He'll look at you in the eye -- he'll look you in the eye, he'll shake your hand, he'll hold your baby, he'll pet your dog and he'll do it all at the same time." President Bush, at the dedication of former dedication of former President Bill Clinton's presidential library in Little Rock, Arkansas.

HEMMER: Is that a compliment?

CAFFERTY: And "Scoring a perfect goal is like an orgasm. Things can happen in your body that you're not aware of." That's from Nando Rafael, a 20-year-old German soccer star, who was excited after scoring a goal in last night's game. Let me tell you something, Nando, if you equate scoring a goal in a soccer game to an orgasm, you're doing one of them wrong.

SERWER: There's a picture that goes with that story, too.

CAFFERTY: You need to work on one of them.

SERWER: There's a fun picture, too. If you go to Google.

HEMMER: Hey listen, remember two weeks ago, we were thinking that we would come up with things Jack says, as opposed to things everybody else -- well, I've got the list here. And at the end of the next hour, we're going to take five of our favorites, actually. And we've collected these only over the past two weeks.

O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) two weeks. I see a series in this.

SERWER: Yes. Oh yes.

HEMMER: We've got a stack.

O'BRIEN: A franchise.

HEMMER: So we're going to sit over here and say, Soledad, where's my glasses?

SERWER: Oh, do stay tuned.

CAFFERTY: That's very funny.

HEMMER: Yes. Hold on to the gold.

O'BRIEN: In just -- we're not going anywhere yet until we go to commercial. In just a moment, a look at today's top stories, including on the move on this busy holiday. We're going to have the latest travel tips and weather updates up next. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired November 24, 2004 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The holiday travel rush is on. The FAA is says there will be more flights nationwide today than any other day this year. But delays possible. At this very hour, in fact, snow, rain, fog, hampering travel from Boston to Los Angeles. That's kind of the whole country, isn't it? Chad Myers is going to tell us what's in store for your part of the country, coming up in just a little bit.
Meanwhile, more people may have access to weapons of mass destruction than previously thought. A new CIA report suggests governments may be sharing WMD technology with each other and with various other groups, including terror organizations. The report doesn't specify which countries might pose the most concern.

The Army National Guard Looking for a few good men. The Guard was more than 30 percent below its target last month. It's part of a downward slide that began last year, decreasing recruitment among Americans with prior military experience is partly blamed for the decline.

And President Bush and the first lady getting ready to spread some holiday cheer. The White House Christmas card being unveiled. It highlights the red room and was designed by Cindy Holtz (ph) of Ft. Worth, Texas. The president and Mrs. Bush expected to send out some two million Christmas cards to friends and families and world leaders this season. We're not sure what it looks like. But we're waiting.

O'BRIEN: It's beautiful, and it's lovely and it's appropriately decorated.

COLLINS: We're going to show it to you a little bit later for those people who are curious about that.

O'BRIEN: That's exciting.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: The Thanksgiving travel rush already well under way, as we've heard, but the long lines, it's not that that has some airline passengers in arms. Women who've been subjected to new, more aggressive body searches say those searches go too far.

Rhonda Gaynier claims that she was violated by airport screeners. She's considered legal action now.

Nice to see you. Thanks for coming in to talk to us. You were going from Tampa to New York, when you were pulled aside for a second screening. What happened?

RHONDA GAYNIER: I was selected by the computer that prints boarding passes for secondary screening. The way they do that is they print four S's on your boarding pass. And after I went through the metal detector, they pulled me aside to have my bags searched by one screener, and my body was patted down by another screener, which includes a breast exam, that's what I call it, for women, for all women who are selected.

O'BRIEN: You're only saying that half jokingly, because that's sort of the point of the litigation that you're considering.

What exactly -- I mean, be specific so that we can understand your complaint? What exactly happened?

GAYNIER: How did they pat me down.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

GAYNIER: They started, you know, on my shoulder, and down my side and around my back and up my other side, and then came around the front and went all the way around my breast, not with the back of the hand. They didn't tell me what they were doing in advance. They just, on both sides, went all the way around my breast.

O'BRIEN: This was a man or woman.

GAYNIER: A woman.

O'BRIEN: Did you say anything to her.

GAYNIER: Well, when I first objected to my screening, I wasn't allowed to board my scheduled flight back to New York. I had to go to another airlines and purchase a one-way ticket. I was selected again with the four S's on my boarding pass. And at the second time I allowed them to do it, because I had already been refused boarding on my scheduled flight. I needed to get back to New York, so I let them do it.

O'BRIEN: Are you angry at that screener, because they screener sort of went out of bounds of the rules, or do you think the rules are just totally wrong?

GAYNIER: The rules are totally wrong. I'm sure the screener was doing her job, but it was totally humiliating and offensive. And I think, it's just another erosion of our rights in the name of airline security. And I don't feel any more secure having been violated in that manner.

O'BRIEN: Here's what the TSA had to say about complaints like yours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ADM. DAVID STONE, TSA ADMINISTRATOR: We need to have very robust security in the world that we live in today. In fact, the return to the pre-9/11 levels, we believe, is the result of the confidence in the security of aviation. So we're quite pleased with that. But we know that our job is to continue to improve. When people point out where we fall short, to immediately take that for action and work on it. And that trust and binding together between our screeners and the traveling public is something we work on everyday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: There are those who say, you've to give up something if you want to be secured, because frankly, women can carrying concealed explosives in our bra. I mean, that's basically what they're searching for.

GAYNIER: But if we don't stop now, there has to be a line. And lots of women that I talked to agree the TSA crosses the line when they start patting passengers down and start patting women's breasts down. And if we don't stop now, when are we going to stop? When are they going to start requiring strip searches or cavity searches at the airport?

O'BRIEN: What about the argument that says, hey, you know what, no one's making you fly; you could drive.

GAYNIER: That's very coercive to be in an airport, 1,200 miles away from where I could go, and say, you can get back another way. Go take a train, drive a car. I wasn't in a position that day to spend two days in a train or a car to get back from Florida to New York.

O'BRIEN: Will you file a lawsuit?

GAYNIER: If TSA stops the pat-downs I won't, but that's what it takes to get them to stop, I will.

O'BRIEN: Rhonda Gaynier, thanks for sharing your story with us. Appreciate it.

GAYNIER: Appreciate your time -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, 23 minutes before the hour.

Dan Rather at CBS announcing yesterday after 24 years at the desk, he's leaving CBS Evening News in early March. Was he forced to go early, or is this all part of a bigger CBS plan? We'll talk about it this morning with Democratic strategist Victor Kamber down in D.C.

Vic, good morning. Nice to have you back with us.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill. Happy Thanksgiving.

HEMMER: Well, thank you, and to you as well.

KAMBER: Thank you. HEMMER: Also former RNC communications director Cliff May in Washington here to talk about that matter, and also what's happening at the Pentagon.

Victor, start us off. Was Dan Rather pushed?

KAMBER: I don't think so. I think the Republicans would love to think so. Conservatives would love to think so. I think the reality is it's -- first of all, he's 73. Secondly, 24 years, I guess, on March, in March that he'll have served. And, No. 3, most importantly, his ratings are down. CBS has been low in the ratings pool of the three networks, or four networks. And I think CBS wants to try to build it and change. He's staying at "60 Minutes," so he's not out.

KAMBER: He certainly has his enemies over the year, and they come from the right, directed at Dan Rather, who they believe is coming from the left.

Cliff, was he forced or not?

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Look, I don't think he planned to stay in that job for another 20 years, but the timing, I don't think was his preferable timing. Just look at Tom Brokaw. When he left, it was immediately known who his replacement would be, Brian Williams. In this case, you don't have that. It's pretty clear he's leaving after the election, but before the report comes out on the allegedly bogus documents he used for that story in the middle of an election.

HEMMER: Do we believe that report is coming out in December? Is that our understanding, about two or three weeks from now?

MAY: That's my understanding, yes. I think it's pretty clearly stated, including by people who speak for him, he wanted to leave before that report came out. If it comes out very badly for him, he'd want to leave after that, and look like it was just in response to that that he was stepping down.

HEMMER: Victor was shaking his head. Do you have more information on that then I have, Victor?

KAMBER: No, I think, I think it's the same thing. Only thing I'm frankly agreeing with Cliff in the sense that he's leaving on his terms. I mean, the question was you asked, was he forced out? He's made the decision, I think, to leave before the report came out, and maybe it did catch CBS somewhat off guard because they weren't ready with the immediate announcements. The Brokaw question had been obviously planned for a long time. I think Dan Rather, from all indications a year ago, looked at leaving at some point. The question was when, and I think he made the decision now.

MAY: I think he would have rather left on a high note than after a story like this.

KAMBER: I think that's pretty obvious.

HEMMER: I don't think anybody would disagree with that.

Let's talk about what's happening with 9/11 reform. Donald Rumsfeld yesterday say he's agrees with the White House and he has not lobbied anyone on Capitol Hill to try and block this reform legislation. Cliff, if that's the case, why hasn't it passed, especially on the House side?

MAY: Yes, let's try to understand this. I think everybody -- Victor, you, me -- everybody wants to see intelligence reform? The question is, what constitutes really good intelligence reform? Now General Richard Myers, who is the top military guy in the country, he has some misgivings about some of the things in this bill, as do some of the key committee chairman, such as Duncan Hunter of Armed Services.

Look, a few days ago the big controversy in this town was whether the president would have anybody who wasn't a yes man, anybody willing to dissent, anybody willing to say to say no, and John Kerry said, and I agree with him, "We need healthy debate." That's his quote. We need diverse opinions. Now, we're getting healthy debate, we're getting diverse opinions, we're getting somebody saying no, and people are saying, ah, why don't these people stay in line and do what they're told.

HEMMER: Look at the reality here, though, the vice president, Dick Cheney, goes to Capitol Hill and addresses them one on one. If Donald Rumsfeld wanted this passed, he could pick up the phone, probably get the same amount of feedback? You're shaking your head no?

MAY: Bill, I kind of disagree, because if you are a committee chairman, as Duncan Hunter is, you do not take orders from the president or the vice president. You have a responsibility in a co- equal branch of government, and if you feel strongly that this bill is not correct, you can't just say OK, I'll do it.

HEMMER: Something tells me Victor doesn't agree with that.

KAMBER: Well, I mean, that's the problem, is right there, is that we have a president who doesn't listen and does not want to cooperate or work with other people. I take Don Rumsfeld at his word. Let's assume he did not lying to us. He did not lobby against this legislation. The problem is the president of the United States thought he had this mandate that he can just demand anything he wants. It's a give-and-take process. Cliff's absolutely right. Sensenbrenner and Hunter have every right to say what they want to say, but the president should have called them together, should have discussed it, and presented a solid front.

MAY: You know what, we shouldn't have a solid front. We should have healthy debate. This is a debate, a discussion, not a conflict.

KAMBER: This is not the issue to have healthy debate three years after 9/11.

MAY: Bill, 70 percent of the 9/11 Commission's recommendations have already been implemented by executive order. The few areas of controversy are important.

KAMBER: The major few.

HEMMER: You guys aren't making this easy on me today, are you?

MAY: Sorry, Bill.

HEMMER: In a word, in December, Victor, does this pass, yes or no?

KAMBER: Right now, 50/50, I don't know.

HEMMER: 50/50 -- Cliff, in a word, yes or no, December, is it done before the new year?

MAY: No.

HEMMER: Wow. Come on back. Have a Happy Thanksgiving, too, by the way.

Thanks -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, don't get an uninvited guest during your holiday travels. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has details on that.

HEMMER: Also this Friday is among the biggest shopping days of the year. Why is the world's largest retailer playing it cool? Andy explains still to come this hour.

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HEMMER: Something else to think about as Americans embark on this year's busiest travel period. We're paging the good doctor here in New York City about a condition known as travelers thrombosis, much more common than a lot of us ever thought. Also helping us out today is our own patient, Heidi Collins, who was a victim of this, what was it, five years ago.

COLLINS: I blocked a lot of it out, but somewhere around there, yes.

HEMMER: Tell us about your story. What happened?

COLLINS: Well, I think the whole point, is, you know, you really -- you think about this happening in older people, but I'm a relatively young person, and all of a sudden developed swelling in my leg after both a flight. It was a three-hour flight, so we talk a lot about international flights and really long flights having a bearing on it, and also a big hike in Colorado. So those are the only unusual things...

HEMMER: But you were hospitalized, that's the point, right?

COLLINS: Four months.

HEMMER: You had a pretty serious condition.

COLLINS: Yes, blood clot in my leg, they told me. They found it at the Air Force Academy through an ultrasound. I had no earthly idea, just though I thought I had pulled a muscle.

HEMMER: Wow.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: An important point, because people do they of people who are older, who are obese. You're neither one of those things happily, but you still developed a deep venous (ph) thrombosis. People often think it's going to happen to the next guy.

But today, because it's the busiest travel day of the year, more people paying attention to this than ever before.

Quick animation to show you what it is that we're talking about first of all here. Talking about these about clots that sometimes develop in the deep veins of the legs. I think we have this animation. Basically what -- yes, there you go. The clot actually forms, you can see that and it propagates, extends up the vein, a little piece sometimes, and Heidi knows about this, flicks off, goes all the way up the vein into the lung. That is called a pulmonary embolism. That is potentially deadly. It is rare, and if you're someone who always thinks it'll never happen to you, it always happens to the next guy, Heidi is an example.

COLLINS: It hurts, too.

HEMMER: How do you avoid this?

It hurts?

COLLINS: Yes, when you have an embolism, yes, it felt like a -- because that, unfortunately happened during the course of this, feels like somebody has a knife in your back and moving around. Seven shots of morphine, never touched it.

HEMMER: How do we avoid this? Your advice is what?

COLLINS: My advice? I think his advice.

GUPTA: Well, let me give you some advice first of all, because I mean, this is a pretty well-known thing now, and there are some advice, especially on a day like today, again, with the heavy traveling, try and get up and walk around. These are some of the symptoms worth pointing out first, and Heidi already talked about this, but calf swelling, you get leg pain, your skin might actually get warm. Your veins may actually stick out. These might be some of your clues, but oftentimes it's impossible to diagnose without that ultra sound that you talked about.

As far as tips go, you know, try and get up and walk around on long flights and while you're waiting in the airport as well. People who are obese are going to be a little bit more predisposed to this. Drink plenty of fluids, and stay away from alcohol and caffeine and exercise those calf muscles. The biggest thing probably getting up and walking around, if you can, on the plane as well, I guess.

HEMMER: Don't want to revisit that, do you?

COLLINS: Oh, my gosh, no, horrendous.

GUPTA: Are you still on blood thinners now.

COLLINS: No, it was like three years on the blood thinners. But mine was strange. I mean, it went to the next level, it became an arterio-occlusion (ph), where the clot jumps from the vein into the artery and that's where we ended up in surgery.

HEMMER: One more thing to underline this, you both have mentioned age, and this was clearly not a factor in your case. Who is most susceptible?

GUPTA: Well, I think people who are obese, people who had recent surgery, people who have a blood clotting disorder, and I guess in your case, they never sorted that out completely. But if your blood is more likely to clot, you may be more likely to develop these as well. Some doctors will actually put you on an Aspirin or a blood thinner prior to a long flight so as to prevent this from ever happening in the first place.

HEMMER: Thank you, doctor.

GUPTA: Thank you.

HEMMER: And thank you, patient.

COLLINS: Thank you. It's important to get out there, though.

HEMMER: Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, still reaching for Christmas gift ideas? How about something from that NBA melee? That's ahead, on AMERICAN MORNING.

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O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

CAFFERTY: Retailers licking their chops about the upcoming holiday shopping season. And eBay offers its take on the NBA brawl, a story that will never ever go away, much to the consternation of David Stern. With that and a market preview, here's my friend Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE": Yes, Ron Artest thought the holiday news would make that story go away. But not true. All right. Lethargic, somnolent, torpid trading yesterday on Wall Street. Not a whole lot going on, in other words. You can see here, the Dow was up 3, NASDAQ and S&P down. What's going on? The dollar continues to slip, jobless claims are down, that's good. But the durable goods orders are down, too, and that's bad. Wal-Mart is not going to be releasing numbers on Black Friday. Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving, that's the Friday that is supposedly the biggest shopping day of the year. Usually retailers say we did blah or we did blah. Wal-Mart just says, we're just not going to tell you.

CAFFERTY: Yes. None of your concern.

SERWER: And when you're number one, you can do that.

CAFFERTY: Absolutely.

SERWER: We just aren't going to tell you.

CAFFERTY: All about the ratings.

SERWER: Yes. That's another story. Now here we go, eBay, America's store -- America's general store. Guess what they're selling? The blue cups from the Pacers-Pistons game that were thrown. And some guy is saying that this is the actual cup that hit...

CAFFERTY: How tasteless.

SERWER: ... that hit Ron Artest in the belly, that was filled with liquid, that made him jump out. It's not. It's not true. Don't go there, don't bid on this cup. The bidding started at about 50 cents and it went up to about $99. Unbelievable.

And they asked the guy, how can you authenticate it? And he goes, oh no, trust me, believe me. It probably -- maybe, probably, maybe was a cup that was actually picked up on the floor of the game. You know, it's just unbelievable.

CAFFERTY: If Hemmer loses his bet with me on this football game...

SERWER: Yes. Which he will.

HEMMER: Tell me more.

CAFFERTY: I'm going to put the 50 cents on eBay and try to sell it for $99.

SERWER: Yes. And you will make, you know -- you do the math on that.

O'BRIEN: You could do that.

CAFFERTY: Wednesday, "Things People Say," beginning with, if "I have to work to pay them, then I won't work. It's that simple. I'll just play golf every day." This is the perennial moron, O.J. Simpson, over his refusal to pay any of the $33.5 million civil judgment to the families of the people he murdered. He's being dragged into court now to find out if he's concealing assets and if they can maybe figure out a way to strip him of some of that stuff and give it to the families. Wish they would. "Now we've got 15 or 17 and you can't shut them up." This is Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina, who's retiring from the Senate, talking about changes that have occurred in that august body during his 38-year career. Way to go, Fritz, nice to go out on a real high note. For the record, you're wrong, there are 14 women senators in the Senate.

"I was OK with it. I think Matt Damon was the most shaken by it because he campaigned hard, he put up a good fight." Brad Pitt, the two-time Sexiest Man Alive, joking about his "Ocean's Twelve" co-star being passed over for the "People" magazine choice this year.

SERWER: Old biscuit face.

CAFFERTY: Jude Law was the winner there.

SERWER: Yes. Old biscuit face.

CAFFERTY: "He'll look at you in the eye -- he'll look you in the eye, he'll shake your hand, he'll hold your baby, he'll pet your dog and he'll do it all at the same time." President Bush, at the dedication of former dedication of former President Bill Clinton's presidential library in Little Rock, Arkansas.

HEMMER: Is that a compliment?

CAFFERTY: And "Scoring a perfect goal is like an orgasm. Things can happen in your body that you're not aware of." That's from Nando Rafael, a 20-year-old German soccer star, who was excited after scoring a goal in last night's game. Let me tell you something, Nando, if you equate scoring a goal in a soccer game to an orgasm, you're doing one of them wrong.

SERWER: There's a picture that goes with that story, too.

CAFFERTY: You need to work on one of them.

SERWER: There's a fun picture, too. If you go to Google.

HEMMER: Hey listen, remember two weeks ago, we were thinking that we would come up with things Jack says, as opposed to things everybody else -- well, I've got the list here. And at the end of the next hour, we're going to take five of our favorites, actually. And we've collected these only over the past two weeks.

O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) two weeks. I see a series in this.

SERWER: Yes. Oh yes.

HEMMER: We've got a stack.

O'BRIEN: A franchise.

HEMMER: So we're going to sit over here and say, Soledad, where's my glasses?

SERWER: Oh, do stay tuned.

CAFFERTY: That's very funny.

HEMMER: Yes. Hold on to the gold.

O'BRIEN: In just -- we're not going anywhere yet until we go to commercial. In just a moment, a look at today's top stories, including on the move on this busy holiday. We're going to have the latest travel tips and weather updates up next. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

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