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American Morning
New Doubts About Iraq's Election; Is It the End for Medical Marijuana?
Aired November 29, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: New doubts about Iraq's election -- how far are Sunnis willing to go to keep the country from voting come January?
The man bringing the Olympics to American television escapes a deadly plane crash while the search continues for his young son.
And is it the end for medical marijuana? The Supreme Court judging a fight that has gone on for years on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: And those are our traffic lights and our corner right outside our studios.
Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
Bill Hemmer has the day off.
Miles O'Brien is in for him this morning.
Nice to have you.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it occurs to me it's a very well documented corner, isn't it?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Fountains, street signs.
S. O'BRIEN: We have shown all angles of that corner.
M. O'BRIEN: Chewing gum on the pavement, it's all there.
S. O'BRIEN: We will...
M. O'BRIEN: It's all there. There it is.
S. O'BRIEN: People.
M. O'BRIEN: Pan down and show us the gum, if you could, on the pavement.
S. O'BRIEN: Stop.
M. O'BRIEN: No, we don't want to do that. That's...
S. O'BRIEN: Did you have a nice holiday?
M. O'BRIEN: I had a fantastic holiday.
S. O'BRIEN: Fabulous.
M. O'BRIEN: Thanksgiving in the Bahamas. I recommend it to everybody.
S. O'BRIEN: Ooh.
M. O'BRIEN: I'm tanned, I'm rested, I'm ready.
Good morning.
Some of the other stories we're looking at this morning, is Pakistan backing away from the hunt for Osama bin Laden? We're going to look at the country's decision to pull troops out of the mountains near Afghanistan. Is it a practical step? Will it put U.S. troops at greater risk? And we'll talk about all of that with Gen. David Grange.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, a potential embarrassment for Alabama. Right now it looks like the state has voted to keep segregationist language in its constitution. We'll take a look at whether this is a story of racial division or something entirely else.
Mr. Cafferty -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File" in less than an hour, corporate advertising on the backs of some of the homeless in Europe, the real price of a package of cigarettes and a man gets visitation rights with his daughter on the Internet.
S. O'BRIEN: That's it?
CAFFERTY: That's all I've got. It's Monday morning...
S. O'BRIEN: No, no, I meant only on the -- online?
CAFFERTY: I've had four days off.
What do you mean is that it? These -- I spent a lot of time putting this stuff together.
S. O'BRIEN: No, no, no I meant...
CAFFERTY: What do you mean is that it?
S. O'BRIEN: I meant just visitation online, is that it? He doesn't get to see her in... CAFFERTY: No, it's...
S. O'BRIEN: Well, that's a tease.
CAFFERTY: See, this is called a tease. We don't tell the whole story when we do the tease...
S. O'BRIEN: Sorry. I'm so sorry.
CAFFERTY: We just tell a little bit of the story and then when I come back later...
S. O'BRIEN: You have no idea how sorry I am.
CAFFERTY: ... I'll tell you the rest of the story.
M. O'BRIEN: A little bit now, the rest later.
CAFFERTY: Or I can do it all now...
M. O'BRIEN: That's keeping the viewers...
CAFFERTY: ... and then I could just get a cab and head back to New Jersey, you know?
S. O'BRIEN: Again, so sorry on so many levels.
CAFFERTY: Good to be with you.
Phinnaeus. What a name.
S. O'BRIEN: It's nice to have the team back.
All right, allrighty, moving on.
The headlines now with Heidi Collins -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: This is exactly why I sit over here. It's just a little too touchy over there.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, man, please help me.
COLLINS: For goodness sakes.
All right, we're going to get straight to the news, in fact.
CNN has confirmed a car bomb attack in Iraq, taking place just about two hours ago. The explosion went off in the town of Baghdadi, which is near Ramadi. Iraqi health officials say at least six people were killed, eight others wounded. Four Iraqi police officers are among the dead.
Back here in the United States, firefighters are on the scene of a large fire. This is in Prince Georges County, Maryland. You're looking at the live pictures now. Quite a bit of smoke. You see a bit of flame coming out the back end here. We understand this is a seafood restaurant. But earlier, this is what it looked like. So you can compare the two pictures there and see that firefighters are making some progress. We are learning -- trying to learn whether or not anyone was in the building at the time. We'll have more on that for you as it develops this morning.
Meanwhile, the U.S. Supreme Court takes on medical marijuana laws. Several states do allow it, but the Bush administration wants the high court to end it. Arguments begin in about three hours from now. Chief Justice William Rehnquist, who is battling thyroid cancer, will not be in court.
And worried about your credit card bill after this weekend's shopping frenzy? Well, you are not alone. A new survey shows 86 million Americans took advantage of the post-Thanksgiving sales, spending nearly $23 billion over the holiday weekend. The survey was conducted by the National Retail Federation.
Yes, I heard a guy on the radio this morning. He said why do people do this? Why do they get out the day after Thanksgiving and...
M. O'BRIEN: I said the same thing a moment ago.
COLLINS: ... and go in the crowds? Was it you that got on the radio, too?
M. O'BRIEN: Maybe so. I don't know. But it's insane. It's insane.
S. O'BRIEN: Because you've got a big Christmas list and you have a day off.
M. O'BRIEN: And there's the boredom factor, the love of shopping, and, in Jack's case, keeping peace in the family. So that's enough to get you out in the mall.
S. O'BRIEN: A myriad of -- a plethora -- a veritable plethora of reasons to go, to get out of your house.
COLLINS: Oh, exactly. I'm going to get you a dictionary, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you. I've got lots of big words and I'm going to work them in to every...
M. O'BRIEN: Another word. Hit the bell, ding.
All right, let's move on now to more serious subjects.
The Sunnis, the Shiites and the Kurds -- the three groups can't seem to agree on elections in Iraq. They're scheduled for just about two months from now. Whether they will happen a big question today.
CNN's Karl Penhaul live now in Baghdad with more on that and other matters there -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Miles. At the heart of a lot of this issue is the security situation on the ground here in Iraq. And that's what has initiated this call for a postponement by 17 of the major influential political parties here. They issued that call on Friday, a mixture of religious, regional and secular groups. They said there wasn't enough security on the ground so that voters and political parties can campaign in peace and so that voters can go and cast their ballot in peace.
Underscoring that fragile security situation today, of course, we saw that car bomb near Ramadi. Six people killed in that.
We've asked the insurgents in a different location of Iraq why they're so opposed to these elections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Iraq is under occupation. We cannot have elections while we are still under occupation. We can have elections when the occupation forces leave. So we don't agree with having elections at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: That man is a commander of the so-called 1920s Brigades, what we understand are pro-Saddam elements fighting against the coalition forces.
Now, although their military means aren't shared by some of the Sunni political parties, their political stance is. And the Sunni parties, or at least a number of them, have come out and said that they don't agree with any elections at all until the coalition forces have left Iraq. We've got, then, the 17 parties who say they want a postponement, for possibly six months, until the security situation improves. And then we have the Shia leaders, who represent the majority in this country, who are saying there should be no delay in elections. They want elections at the earliest possibility. And that view is reinforced by the government. The government spokesman has come out and said no, the prime minister wants elections on January the 30th, as scheduled, and as mandated, in fact, by a U.N. Security Council resolution -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: A quick question for you, Karl, about the Kurds. They have a tremendous amount of autonomy as it is, and even did so under the regime of Saddam Hussein.
Where are they weighing in right now?
PENHAUL: The two main Kurdish parties did join in with the 17. They were part of those 17 parties that have called for a postponement. We've talked to them again this morning and they -- they're kind of backing a two horse race, really. What they're saying is that on the one hand they favor a postponement if possible. But they're also saying if no postponement is possible, they will, of course, take part in January 30th elections. They're kind of betting both ways on that -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Hedging their bets, I should say.
Karl Penhaul in Baghdad.
Thank you very much -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Pakistan's government will withdraw troops from a tense tribal region near the Afghan border. That's an area where it is believed that Osama bin Laden has been hiding.
Here to tell us what this all means is Retired General David Grange, joining us from Oakbrook, Illinois -- nice to see you, General.
Thanks for being with us.
I don't know if he can hear me, so I'm just going to...
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I can hear you.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, wonderful.
Thank you.
The Pakistan military now says they're going to end their operations on that border.
Why move out and why now?
GRANGE: Well, you know, Musharraf walks a fine line between making peace with the population of his nation and supporting U.S. and other coalition members in the war against terrorism. And so he has to somehow win some confidence from some of the tribal leaders that are along the border area with Afghanistan. And right now he's been doing it pretty much by force, by pushing the military into that area. But it hasn't worked that well.
And so I think he's looking at some options in order to still continue the war against terrorism, but at the same time win over the hearts and minds of some of the tribal leaders.
S. O'BRIEN: Since it hasn't been particularly effective, as you point out, what does it really matter if they do, in fact, pull out?
GRANGE: Well, if he can garner some support from some of the tribal leaders -- and I think he did that through granting amnesty -- and then get them to turn in at least foreigners, those that are not citizens of Pakistan, which is one of the requirements -- maybe that'll provide some information that they can react to. They're not going to totally abandon this region. They're still going to have military units stationed in many of the locations and I think they'll have a rapid reaction force that can respond to any sightings of known terrorists or insurgent supporters that do not agree with the amnesty, do not come along on the governmental side.
S. O'BRIEN: So you think that there'll be more of an increase in covert operations there on that border?
GRANGE: I believe so. I mean that's never going to just go away. That'll always be there. But it does put a little extra pressure on the U.S. side because, again, some of the outposts, some of the routes to and from, between both countries, will not be covered now, except for maybe some other means, like overhead or, again, covert activities.
S. O'BRIEN: The United States, of course, patrolling the Afghan side of that border.
What's the impact going to be to the U.S. forces now?
GRANGE: Well, they'll have to pick up some of their capabilities and, again, it's not like the whole border is being abandoned. It's a little -- right now it looks like everybody is pulling out. That's not really the case. There are still going to be units in the area on the Pakistani side. But it will increase the requirements of the U.S. and coalition forces on that side of the border, and it may require more troops.
S. O'BRIEN: Is it your sense that that is where Osama bin Laden will one day be found or that he is not there?
GRANGE: No, I believe he's in Pakistan. I believe he's being hidden by some of the senior leaders from the intel services agency or something like that, in, actually, probably a pretty nice location, not a cave.
S. O'BRIEN: Brigadier General David Grange, thanks for talking with us this morning.
Nice to see you, as always.
GRANGE: The same.
Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: The son of NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol missing after a small plane crash. Ebersol and another son survived the crash Sunday morning about 200 miles southwest of Denver, in the town of Montrose, Colorado. Two were killed.
Witness Chuck Distel took this photo just after the crash, actually, a series of photos.
He joins us now from near the scene.
Mr. Distel, good to have you with us.
CHUCK DISTEL, CRASH WITNESS: Good morning.
M. O'BRIEN: Now, you just happened to be driving by the airport at the time of the crash. Tell me what you saw and what you heard.
DISTEL: I was driving by the airport on my way to our office. I looked over to the right and I could see on the runway there was a plane there just turned sideways and it shot off the right side of the runway and them immediately smoke and flames started rising into the air.
I pulled off onto the frontage road and I called 911. And I pulled up on down to where the airplane was. When I walked up on the scene, I got out of my pickup and another gentleman from the airport had just showed up. There was an older man and a younger man in front of the airplane. The two gentlemen were...
M. O'BRIEN: Mr. Distel, could you just -- could we back -- if we could just back up for just a moment.
You say it went off to the right.
DISTEL: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Was the airplane in the air or was it still on the ground?
DISTEL: It was, it appeared to be still on the ground. I mean when I saw it, it was obviously on the ground because it, the, you know, the flames and smoke were going up into the air.
M. O'BRIEN: OK. And it veered very sharply to the right?
DISTEL: It went off, yes, it veered off sharply then it straightened back out. And then it slid for maybe 200 yards before it hit the frontage or hit the road.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us just briefly the weather conditions at the time. How was visibility? Was there a lot of snow?
DISTEL: It was real similar to what it's doing right now. It was a light snow. It was snowing hard earlier that morning and then it had cleared up a little bit. It had let up a little bit.
M. O'BRIEN: OK. Tell us -- and when you got to the scene, the -- some of the survivors you actually saw. Tell us what you saw in that respect.
DISTEL: I pulled up on the scene and there was, like I say, there was two gentlemen in front of the airplane that were standing. They were both standing. The front of the cockpit was pretty much completely tore away from the airplane. The man from the airport asked the younger man what -- if there was any other people. The younger man said there was five, there was five. So we didn't know exactly how many people there was, whether there was five including him or five others.
M. O'BRIEN: And you learned later this was Dick Ebersol's older son, correct?
DISTEL: Yes, that's what I heard later. The man from the airport at that time was yelling into the front of the airplane, trying to see if there was any other survivors in the airplane. We didn't hear any voices in there, so -- and the flames were starting to get larger and larger, I mean quickly, within seconds the thing burst into flames.
M. O'BRIEN: Mr. Distel, to witness such a thing, it's hard to comprehend what must be going through your mind this -- on this next day.
What are your thoughts?
DISTEL: Oh, I just feel sorry for the families and the people who were on that airplane. I mean it had to be very traumatic.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Chuck Distel, who was an eyewitness to that crash of that aircraft in, near Telluride, Colorado.
Thank you very much for your time.
DISTEL: You're welcome.
Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: It's looking cold and snowy there, in fact, in Colorado.
Time to get another check of the weather.
And Rob Marciano in for Chad this morning -- good morning to you, Rob.
Give me a sense of what it looks like there.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, the temperatures are in the teens. The wind chill is down around zero. And still that part of Colorado under a winter storm warning until noon time local time. And then afterwards, conditions will begin to improve.
This storm is big, it's slow, it's finally moving out of that area. But still snowing in Denver, Colorado and some of the mountains across northern New Mexico. Again, contradictions expected to improve as we go on through the afternoon today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, voters in one state decide to keep segregation on the books. It's a complicated story. Find out why some people say it's about money, not racism.
S. O'BRIEN: Also, doctors are seeing an alarming trend in Americans with hypertension. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to tell us what you can do to lower your blood pressure.
M. O'BRIEN: Stay home from work would be a start.
Anyway, all right, plus, Iran strikes a deal to avoid U.N. sanctions over its nuclear program. But could U.S. policy on Tehran still mean trouble down the road? We'll ask an expert ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Fifty years after the Supreme Court ruled separate but equal public schools are unconstitutional, Alabama still has segregation on its books. This past Election Day, voters narrowly defeated an amendment to change that law. A recount is planned for today.
Joining us this morning, John Giles. He is the president of Alabama's Christian Coalition. Also, Charles Steel of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Gentlemen, good morning to you.
Thanks for being with us.
CHARLES STEELE, SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE: Good morning.
S. O'BRIEN: Mr. Giles, let's begin with you.
Why did you want this amendment defeated?
JOHN GILES, CHRISTIAN COALITION OF ALABAMA: Well, I think there's two facts that need to be established at the outset. Number one is that the Supreme Court has already strucken and stricken this particular racist language from the Alabama constitution. Secondly, did support this legislation in its original form, before it was contaminated. We were on the governor's citizens constitutional committee and we voted to remove the racist language in a subcommittee and then again as a full committee.
But Representative Guin had struck the other paragraph, it contaminated the bill and it opened up the door to all kinds of opportunities for frivolous lawsuits, which we had to relive from '93.
S. O'BRIEN: When you talk about certain sections of the amendment, we really should clarify. The section that was in question was this. "It's the policy of the state to foster and promote the education of its citizens in a manner and extent consistent with its available resources and the willingness and ability of the individual student. "This portion, though, taken out. "But nothing in this constitution shall be construed as creating or recognizing any right to education or training at public expense. It goes on and on and on.
It sounds like what you wanted out, Mr. Giles, was the right to an education for the students in Alabama.
Why do you not want that?
GILES: Well, see, that's the wrong angle on this thing. See, I've lived in this state for 45 years. No student, to my knowledge, has ever been denied a public education at the taxpayers' expense. It is a gift from the state. And our concern was, just like 50 percent of the states in the country are right now in litigation. And the center -- over this issue.
And the centerpiece of that litigation is this issue of a right to education. A right to education from a lay standpoint seems like very innocent language and something that we would all want. But in a courtroom with trial lawyers and activist judges, this is very dangerous, lethal, fuzzy code legal language that can open up the door to anything from raising of taxes all the way to penetrating the veil of the quality of education for private, parochial, Christian and home schoolers.
S. O'BRIEN: Mr. Steele, what do you think is really at issue here?
STEELE: Well, first of all, I'm disturbed over the fact that we still here, in 2004, have the racist language dealing with separate schools, separate public accommodations. And this type of imagery for Alabama is very negative. It's going to hurt us on the global economy by the mere fact it seems as though this bill is going to be defeated, we will be looked at actually losing 40 to 50 years of progression in terms of the global economy.
S. O'BRIEN: Why not, then, take out the racist language, the part that talks about separate schools for white and colored children? Why not just remove that?
STEELE: Well, basically...
S. O'BRIEN: ... and leave in the part that wouldn't guarantee the right to an education, if it's really all about race?
STEELE: Well, first of all, that should be a priority, to remove this type of language from our constitution. And this is 2004, not 1924. But the point being that we feel like we have come a long ways, and I love Alabama, and there are a lot of good people in Alabama. But it seems as though we still have some work to do.
S. O'BRIEN: The vote was close. The recount is scheduled for today.
Mr. Giles, Mr. Steele, thanks, gentlemen.
Appreciate it.
STEELE: Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, intelligence reform has a tough go of it on Capitol Hill. But who's really responsible, Congress or the White House? That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Our Billy Hemmer will be proud this morning. The Cincinnati Bangles beat the Cleveland Browns in the second highest scoring game in NFL history. Cincinnati's Carson Palmer threw a career high four touchdown passes yesterday, this one a 46-yarder to wide receiver Chad Johnson. M. O'BRIEN: Ooh, nice.
S. O'BRIEN: Together, the teams had more than 900 yards of total offense. The final score was Cincinnati 58, Cleveland 48, a total of 106 points.
CAFFERTY: Wow.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. I wonder if Hemmer was there.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sure -- probably.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes, he might have been there.
S. O'BRIEN: He's on a little vaca.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: He loves that team.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Jack Cafferty is here with the "Cafferty File."
CAFFERTY: The Question of the Day, Miles...
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, that, too.
CAFFERTY: Yes. You can be excused, you're new here.
Eleven states in the country allow medicinal use of marijuana. The federal government says it's illegal and you can't use it, period, no exceptions. The Supreme Court has agreed to decide who has the authority to enforce these marijuana laws. Should the federal government be able to go into the states that allow medical use of the weed and outlaw it?
Just before we read these responses, the question is under what circumstances should marijuana be legal? I've probably gotten 300 letters or so this morning. Not one, not one suggests that the medical use of marijuana should be disallowed. Not one.
Ervin in North Carolina writes" "If our media would drop the cliches, report patients and doctors in Europe and the United Kingdom are calling marijuana a miracle drug for M.S., epilepsy, chronic pain and more, perhaps Americans could use this god given medicine as our ancestors did."
Doug writes: "Our daughter has progressive multiple sclerosis. The only medicine that can relieve her pain is marijuana. The State of California allows for the use of medicinal marijuana, but John Ashcroft knows best."
Walter in Sarasota writes: "Our federal government has become the greatest control freak of all time. It's not truly interested in our well being. It's interested in control and the rewards that come from regulation. The Feds need to get off our backs and let us do what we think is best in our own lives."
And Joe writes from Austin: "Wow. It blows my mind. Heavy question, dude, like it's a riddle, man. It has no wrong answer. Outa sight concept linked to the true meaning of the universe. Peace and love, man. What was the question again? I think I lost my train of thought."
M. O'BRIEN: We're glad he shared.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
M. O'BRIEN: Buttressing every cliche...
CAFFERTY: What, are you on (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
S. O'BRIEN: Although, you know, in all seriousness, that is, for people who are dealing -- I mean we covered this when I was working in San Francisco -- dealing with these life threatening diseases that are progressive and horribly painful, I mean it's their only choice.
CAFFERTY: Absolutely. Alcohol is legal. It kills more people than any war, right? Prescription drugs you can overdose on and kill yourself, take yourself out in a second. You know, I'm not an expert, but I don't know if you can even overdose on marijuana if you smoke the stuff and I got a letter from a guy in law enforcement, and maybe we can get to it later, he said, you know, for 20 years of, you know, investigating automobile accidents, 80 percent of the fatal accidents he came across involved the use of booze.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And the only people that regulate the use of booze is us. Nobody says you can't drink.
S. O'BRIEN: Right.
M. O'BRIEN: We're not even talking about cigarettes, you know? What about taking them off the market?
CAFFERTY: Yes, the same thing. I mean it's just nonsense. The fed -- the guy who said the federal government ought to get off our back is right. Leave us alone.
M. O'BRIEN: Dude.
CAFFERTY: Dude.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Still to come this morning, the White House will not negotiate with Iran when it comes to nukes. One expert tells us why that will not solve the problem.
Plus, not sure about your blood pressure? Dr. Gupta tells us what's too high and what you can do to lower it if you think you're in trouble. Those stories ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 29, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: New doubts about Iraq's election -- how far are Sunnis willing to go to keep the country from voting come January?
The man bringing the Olympics to American television escapes a deadly plane crash while the search continues for his young son.
And is it the end for medical marijuana? The Supreme Court judging a fight that has gone on for years on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: And those are our traffic lights and our corner right outside our studios.
Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
Bill Hemmer has the day off.
Miles O'Brien is in for him this morning.
Nice to have you.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it occurs to me it's a very well documented corner, isn't it?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Fountains, street signs.
S. O'BRIEN: We have shown all angles of that corner.
M. O'BRIEN: Chewing gum on the pavement, it's all there.
S. O'BRIEN: We will...
M. O'BRIEN: It's all there. There it is.
S. O'BRIEN: People.
M. O'BRIEN: Pan down and show us the gum, if you could, on the pavement.
S. O'BRIEN: Stop.
M. O'BRIEN: No, we don't want to do that. That's...
S. O'BRIEN: Did you have a nice holiday?
M. O'BRIEN: I had a fantastic holiday.
S. O'BRIEN: Fabulous.
M. O'BRIEN: Thanksgiving in the Bahamas. I recommend it to everybody.
S. O'BRIEN: Ooh.
M. O'BRIEN: I'm tanned, I'm rested, I'm ready.
Good morning.
Some of the other stories we're looking at this morning, is Pakistan backing away from the hunt for Osama bin Laden? We're going to look at the country's decision to pull troops out of the mountains near Afghanistan. Is it a practical step? Will it put U.S. troops at greater risk? And we'll talk about all of that with Gen. David Grange.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, a potential embarrassment for Alabama. Right now it looks like the state has voted to keep segregationist language in its constitution. We'll take a look at whether this is a story of racial division or something entirely else.
Mr. Cafferty -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File" in less than an hour, corporate advertising on the backs of some of the homeless in Europe, the real price of a package of cigarettes and a man gets visitation rights with his daughter on the Internet.
S. O'BRIEN: That's it?
CAFFERTY: That's all I've got. It's Monday morning...
S. O'BRIEN: No, no, I meant only on the -- online?
CAFFERTY: I've had four days off.
What do you mean is that it? These -- I spent a lot of time putting this stuff together.
S. O'BRIEN: No, no, no I meant...
CAFFERTY: What do you mean is that it?
S. O'BRIEN: I meant just visitation online, is that it? He doesn't get to see her in... CAFFERTY: No, it's...
S. O'BRIEN: Well, that's a tease.
CAFFERTY: See, this is called a tease. We don't tell the whole story when we do the tease...
S. O'BRIEN: Sorry. I'm so sorry.
CAFFERTY: We just tell a little bit of the story and then when I come back later...
S. O'BRIEN: You have no idea how sorry I am.
CAFFERTY: ... I'll tell you the rest of the story.
M. O'BRIEN: A little bit now, the rest later.
CAFFERTY: Or I can do it all now...
M. O'BRIEN: That's keeping the viewers...
CAFFERTY: ... and then I could just get a cab and head back to New Jersey, you know?
S. O'BRIEN: Again, so sorry on so many levels.
CAFFERTY: Good to be with you.
Phinnaeus. What a name.
S. O'BRIEN: It's nice to have the team back.
All right, allrighty, moving on.
The headlines now with Heidi Collins -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: This is exactly why I sit over here. It's just a little too touchy over there.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, man, please help me.
COLLINS: For goodness sakes.
All right, we're going to get straight to the news, in fact.
CNN has confirmed a car bomb attack in Iraq, taking place just about two hours ago. The explosion went off in the town of Baghdadi, which is near Ramadi. Iraqi health officials say at least six people were killed, eight others wounded. Four Iraqi police officers are among the dead.
Back here in the United States, firefighters are on the scene of a large fire. This is in Prince Georges County, Maryland. You're looking at the live pictures now. Quite a bit of smoke. You see a bit of flame coming out the back end here. We understand this is a seafood restaurant. But earlier, this is what it looked like. So you can compare the two pictures there and see that firefighters are making some progress. We are learning -- trying to learn whether or not anyone was in the building at the time. We'll have more on that for you as it develops this morning.
Meanwhile, the U.S. Supreme Court takes on medical marijuana laws. Several states do allow it, but the Bush administration wants the high court to end it. Arguments begin in about three hours from now. Chief Justice William Rehnquist, who is battling thyroid cancer, will not be in court.
And worried about your credit card bill after this weekend's shopping frenzy? Well, you are not alone. A new survey shows 86 million Americans took advantage of the post-Thanksgiving sales, spending nearly $23 billion over the holiday weekend. The survey was conducted by the National Retail Federation.
Yes, I heard a guy on the radio this morning. He said why do people do this? Why do they get out the day after Thanksgiving and...
M. O'BRIEN: I said the same thing a moment ago.
COLLINS: ... and go in the crowds? Was it you that got on the radio, too?
M. O'BRIEN: Maybe so. I don't know. But it's insane. It's insane.
S. O'BRIEN: Because you've got a big Christmas list and you have a day off.
M. O'BRIEN: And there's the boredom factor, the love of shopping, and, in Jack's case, keeping peace in the family. So that's enough to get you out in the mall.
S. O'BRIEN: A myriad of -- a plethora -- a veritable plethora of reasons to go, to get out of your house.
COLLINS: Oh, exactly. I'm going to get you a dictionary, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you. I've got lots of big words and I'm going to work them in to every...
M. O'BRIEN: Another word. Hit the bell, ding.
All right, let's move on now to more serious subjects.
The Sunnis, the Shiites and the Kurds -- the three groups can't seem to agree on elections in Iraq. They're scheduled for just about two months from now. Whether they will happen a big question today.
CNN's Karl Penhaul live now in Baghdad with more on that and other matters there -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Miles. At the heart of a lot of this issue is the security situation on the ground here in Iraq. And that's what has initiated this call for a postponement by 17 of the major influential political parties here. They issued that call on Friday, a mixture of religious, regional and secular groups. They said there wasn't enough security on the ground so that voters and political parties can campaign in peace and so that voters can go and cast their ballot in peace.
Underscoring that fragile security situation today, of course, we saw that car bomb near Ramadi. Six people killed in that.
We've asked the insurgents in a different location of Iraq why they're so opposed to these elections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Iraq is under occupation. We cannot have elections while we are still under occupation. We can have elections when the occupation forces leave. So we don't agree with having elections at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: That man is a commander of the so-called 1920s Brigades, what we understand are pro-Saddam elements fighting against the coalition forces.
Now, although their military means aren't shared by some of the Sunni political parties, their political stance is. And the Sunni parties, or at least a number of them, have come out and said that they don't agree with any elections at all until the coalition forces have left Iraq. We've got, then, the 17 parties who say they want a postponement, for possibly six months, until the security situation improves. And then we have the Shia leaders, who represent the majority in this country, who are saying there should be no delay in elections. They want elections at the earliest possibility. And that view is reinforced by the government. The government spokesman has come out and said no, the prime minister wants elections on January the 30th, as scheduled, and as mandated, in fact, by a U.N. Security Council resolution -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: A quick question for you, Karl, about the Kurds. They have a tremendous amount of autonomy as it is, and even did so under the regime of Saddam Hussein.
Where are they weighing in right now?
PENHAUL: The two main Kurdish parties did join in with the 17. They were part of those 17 parties that have called for a postponement. We've talked to them again this morning and they -- they're kind of backing a two horse race, really. What they're saying is that on the one hand they favor a postponement if possible. But they're also saying if no postponement is possible, they will, of course, take part in January 30th elections. They're kind of betting both ways on that -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Hedging their bets, I should say.
Karl Penhaul in Baghdad.
Thank you very much -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Pakistan's government will withdraw troops from a tense tribal region near the Afghan border. That's an area where it is believed that Osama bin Laden has been hiding.
Here to tell us what this all means is Retired General David Grange, joining us from Oakbrook, Illinois -- nice to see you, General.
Thanks for being with us.
I don't know if he can hear me, so I'm just going to...
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I can hear you.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, wonderful.
Thank you.
The Pakistan military now says they're going to end their operations on that border.
Why move out and why now?
GRANGE: Well, you know, Musharraf walks a fine line between making peace with the population of his nation and supporting U.S. and other coalition members in the war against terrorism. And so he has to somehow win some confidence from some of the tribal leaders that are along the border area with Afghanistan. And right now he's been doing it pretty much by force, by pushing the military into that area. But it hasn't worked that well.
And so I think he's looking at some options in order to still continue the war against terrorism, but at the same time win over the hearts and minds of some of the tribal leaders.
S. O'BRIEN: Since it hasn't been particularly effective, as you point out, what does it really matter if they do, in fact, pull out?
GRANGE: Well, if he can garner some support from some of the tribal leaders -- and I think he did that through granting amnesty -- and then get them to turn in at least foreigners, those that are not citizens of Pakistan, which is one of the requirements -- maybe that'll provide some information that they can react to. They're not going to totally abandon this region. They're still going to have military units stationed in many of the locations and I think they'll have a rapid reaction force that can respond to any sightings of known terrorists or insurgent supporters that do not agree with the amnesty, do not come along on the governmental side.
S. O'BRIEN: So you think that there'll be more of an increase in covert operations there on that border?
GRANGE: I believe so. I mean that's never going to just go away. That'll always be there. But it does put a little extra pressure on the U.S. side because, again, some of the outposts, some of the routes to and from, between both countries, will not be covered now, except for maybe some other means, like overhead or, again, covert activities.
S. O'BRIEN: The United States, of course, patrolling the Afghan side of that border.
What's the impact going to be to the U.S. forces now?
GRANGE: Well, they'll have to pick up some of their capabilities and, again, it's not like the whole border is being abandoned. It's a little -- right now it looks like everybody is pulling out. That's not really the case. There are still going to be units in the area on the Pakistani side. But it will increase the requirements of the U.S. and coalition forces on that side of the border, and it may require more troops.
S. O'BRIEN: Is it your sense that that is where Osama bin Laden will one day be found or that he is not there?
GRANGE: No, I believe he's in Pakistan. I believe he's being hidden by some of the senior leaders from the intel services agency or something like that, in, actually, probably a pretty nice location, not a cave.
S. O'BRIEN: Brigadier General David Grange, thanks for talking with us this morning.
Nice to see you, as always.
GRANGE: The same.
Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: The son of NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol missing after a small plane crash. Ebersol and another son survived the crash Sunday morning about 200 miles southwest of Denver, in the town of Montrose, Colorado. Two were killed.
Witness Chuck Distel took this photo just after the crash, actually, a series of photos.
He joins us now from near the scene.
Mr. Distel, good to have you with us.
CHUCK DISTEL, CRASH WITNESS: Good morning.
M. O'BRIEN: Now, you just happened to be driving by the airport at the time of the crash. Tell me what you saw and what you heard.
DISTEL: I was driving by the airport on my way to our office. I looked over to the right and I could see on the runway there was a plane there just turned sideways and it shot off the right side of the runway and them immediately smoke and flames started rising into the air.
I pulled off onto the frontage road and I called 911. And I pulled up on down to where the airplane was. When I walked up on the scene, I got out of my pickup and another gentleman from the airport had just showed up. There was an older man and a younger man in front of the airplane. The two gentlemen were...
M. O'BRIEN: Mr. Distel, could you just -- could we back -- if we could just back up for just a moment.
You say it went off to the right.
DISTEL: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Was the airplane in the air or was it still on the ground?
DISTEL: It was, it appeared to be still on the ground. I mean when I saw it, it was obviously on the ground because it, the, you know, the flames and smoke were going up into the air.
M. O'BRIEN: OK. And it veered very sharply to the right?
DISTEL: It went off, yes, it veered off sharply then it straightened back out. And then it slid for maybe 200 yards before it hit the frontage or hit the road.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us just briefly the weather conditions at the time. How was visibility? Was there a lot of snow?
DISTEL: It was real similar to what it's doing right now. It was a light snow. It was snowing hard earlier that morning and then it had cleared up a little bit. It had let up a little bit.
M. O'BRIEN: OK. Tell us -- and when you got to the scene, the -- some of the survivors you actually saw. Tell us what you saw in that respect.
DISTEL: I pulled up on the scene and there was, like I say, there was two gentlemen in front of the airplane that were standing. They were both standing. The front of the cockpit was pretty much completely tore away from the airplane. The man from the airport asked the younger man what -- if there was any other people. The younger man said there was five, there was five. So we didn't know exactly how many people there was, whether there was five including him or five others.
M. O'BRIEN: And you learned later this was Dick Ebersol's older son, correct?
DISTEL: Yes, that's what I heard later. The man from the airport at that time was yelling into the front of the airplane, trying to see if there was any other survivors in the airplane. We didn't hear any voices in there, so -- and the flames were starting to get larger and larger, I mean quickly, within seconds the thing burst into flames.
M. O'BRIEN: Mr. Distel, to witness such a thing, it's hard to comprehend what must be going through your mind this -- on this next day.
What are your thoughts?
DISTEL: Oh, I just feel sorry for the families and the people who were on that airplane. I mean it had to be very traumatic.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Chuck Distel, who was an eyewitness to that crash of that aircraft in, near Telluride, Colorado.
Thank you very much for your time.
DISTEL: You're welcome.
Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: It's looking cold and snowy there, in fact, in Colorado.
Time to get another check of the weather.
And Rob Marciano in for Chad this morning -- good morning to you, Rob.
Give me a sense of what it looks like there.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, the temperatures are in the teens. The wind chill is down around zero. And still that part of Colorado under a winter storm warning until noon time local time. And then afterwards, conditions will begin to improve.
This storm is big, it's slow, it's finally moving out of that area. But still snowing in Denver, Colorado and some of the mountains across northern New Mexico. Again, contradictions expected to improve as we go on through the afternoon today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, voters in one state decide to keep segregation on the books. It's a complicated story. Find out why some people say it's about money, not racism.
S. O'BRIEN: Also, doctors are seeing an alarming trend in Americans with hypertension. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to tell us what you can do to lower your blood pressure.
M. O'BRIEN: Stay home from work would be a start.
Anyway, all right, plus, Iran strikes a deal to avoid U.N. sanctions over its nuclear program. But could U.S. policy on Tehran still mean trouble down the road? We'll ask an expert ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Fifty years after the Supreme Court ruled separate but equal public schools are unconstitutional, Alabama still has segregation on its books. This past Election Day, voters narrowly defeated an amendment to change that law. A recount is planned for today.
Joining us this morning, John Giles. He is the president of Alabama's Christian Coalition. Also, Charles Steel of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Gentlemen, good morning to you.
Thanks for being with us.
CHARLES STEELE, SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE: Good morning.
S. O'BRIEN: Mr. Giles, let's begin with you.
Why did you want this amendment defeated?
JOHN GILES, CHRISTIAN COALITION OF ALABAMA: Well, I think there's two facts that need to be established at the outset. Number one is that the Supreme Court has already strucken and stricken this particular racist language from the Alabama constitution. Secondly, did support this legislation in its original form, before it was contaminated. We were on the governor's citizens constitutional committee and we voted to remove the racist language in a subcommittee and then again as a full committee.
But Representative Guin had struck the other paragraph, it contaminated the bill and it opened up the door to all kinds of opportunities for frivolous lawsuits, which we had to relive from '93.
S. O'BRIEN: When you talk about certain sections of the amendment, we really should clarify. The section that was in question was this. "It's the policy of the state to foster and promote the education of its citizens in a manner and extent consistent with its available resources and the willingness and ability of the individual student. "This portion, though, taken out. "But nothing in this constitution shall be construed as creating or recognizing any right to education or training at public expense. It goes on and on and on.
It sounds like what you wanted out, Mr. Giles, was the right to an education for the students in Alabama.
Why do you not want that?
GILES: Well, see, that's the wrong angle on this thing. See, I've lived in this state for 45 years. No student, to my knowledge, has ever been denied a public education at the taxpayers' expense. It is a gift from the state. And our concern was, just like 50 percent of the states in the country are right now in litigation. And the center -- over this issue.
And the centerpiece of that litigation is this issue of a right to education. A right to education from a lay standpoint seems like very innocent language and something that we would all want. But in a courtroom with trial lawyers and activist judges, this is very dangerous, lethal, fuzzy code legal language that can open up the door to anything from raising of taxes all the way to penetrating the veil of the quality of education for private, parochial, Christian and home schoolers.
S. O'BRIEN: Mr. Steele, what do you think is really at issue here?
STEELE: Well, first of all, I'm disturbed over the fact that we still here, in 2004, have the racist language dealing with separate schools, separate public accommodations. And this type of imagery for Alabama is very negative. It's going to hurt us on the global economy by the mere fact it seems as though this bill is going to be defeated, we will be looked at actually losing 40 to 50 years of progression in terms of the global economy.
S. O'BRIEN: Why not, then, take out the racist language, the part that talks about separate schools for white and colored children? Why not just remove that?
STEELE: Well, basically...
S. O'BRIEN: ... and leave in the part that wouldn't guarantee the right to an education, if it's really all about race?
STEELE: Well, first of all, that should be a priority, to remove this type of language from our constitution. And this is 2004, not 1924. But the point being that we feel like we have come a long ways, and I love Alabama, and there are a lot of good people in Alabama. But it seems as though we still have some work to do.
S. O'BRIEN: The vote was close. The recount is scheduled for today.
Mr. Giles, Mr. Steele, thanks, gentlemen.
Appreciate it.
STEELE: Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, intelligence reform has a tough go of it on Capitol Hill. But who's really responsible, Congress or the White House? That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Our Billy Hemmer will be proud this morning. The Cincinnati Bangles beat the Cleveland Browns in the second highest scoring game in NFL history. Cincinnati's Carson Palmer threw a career high four touchdown passes yesterday, this one a 46-yarder to wide receiver Chad Johnson. M. O'BRIEN: Ooh, nice.
S. O'BRIEN: Together, the teams had more than 900 yards of total offense. The final score was Cincinnati 58, Cleveland 48, a total of 106 points.
CAFFERTY: Wow.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. I wonder if Hemmer was there.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sure -- probably.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes, he might have been there.
S. O'BRIEN: He's on a little vaca.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: He loves that team.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Jack Cafferty is here with the "Cafferty File."
CAFFERTY: The Question of the Day, Miles...
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, that, too.
CAFFERTY: Yes. You can be excused, you're new here.
Eleven states in the country allow medicinal use of marijuana. The federal government says it's illegal and you can't use it, period, no exceptions. The Supreme Court has agreed to decide who has the authority to enforce these marijuana laws. Should the federal government be able to go into the states that allow medical use of the weed and outlaw it?
Just before we read these responses, the question is under what circumstances should marijuana be legal? I've probably gotten 300 letters or so this morning. Not one, not one suggests that the medical use of marijuana should be disallowed. Not one.
Ervin in North Carolina writes" "If our media would drop the cliches, report patients and doctors in Europe and the United Kingdom are calling marijuana a miracle drug for M.S., epilepsy, chronic pain and more, perhaps Americans could use this god given medicine as our ancestors did."
Doug writes: "Our daughter has progressive multiple sclerosis. The only medicine that can relieve her pain is marijuana. The State of California allows for the use of medicinal marijuana, but John Ashcroft knows best."
Walter in Sarasota writes: "Our federal government has become the greatest control freak of all time. It's not truly interested in our well being. It's interested in control and the rewards that come from regulation. The Feds need to get off our backs and let us do what we think is best in our own lives."
And Joe writes from Austin: "Wow. It blows my mind. Heavy question, dude, like it's a riddle, man. It has no wrong answer. Outa sight concept linked to the true meaning of the universe. Peace and love, man. What was the question again? I think I lost my train of thought."
M. O'BRIEN: We're glad he shared.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
M. O'BRIEN: Buttressing every cliche...
CAFFERTY: What, are you on (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
S. O'BRIEN: Although, you know, in all seriousness, that is, for people who are dealing -- I mean we covered this when I was working in San Francisco -- dealing with these life threatening diseases that are progressive and horribly painful, I mean it's their only choice.
CAFFERTY: Absolutely. Alcohol is legal. It kills more people than any war, right? Prescription drugs you can overdose on and kill yourself, take yourself out in a second. You know, I'm not an expert, but I don't know if you can even overdose on marijuana if you smoke the stuff and I got a letter from a guy in law enforcement, and maybe we can get to it later, he said, you know, for 20 years of, you know, investigating automobile accidents, 80 percent of the fatal accidents he came across involved the use of booze.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And the only people that regulate the use of booze is us. Nobody says you can't drink.
S. O'BRIEN: Right.
M. O'BRIEN: We're not even talking about cigarettes, you know? What about taking them off the market?
CAFFERTY: Yes, the same thing. I mean it's just nonsense. The fed -- the guy who said the federal government ought to get off our back is right. Leave us alone.
M. O'BRIEN: Dude.
CAFFERTY: Dude.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Still to come this morning, the White House will not negotiate with Iran when it comes to nukes. One expert tells us why that will not solve the problem.
Plus, not sure about your blood pressure? Dr. Gupta tells us what's too high and what you can do to lower it if you think you're in trouble. Those stories ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
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