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NEWS FROM CNN

Carlos Gutierrez Chosen for Commerce; More Evidence Insurgency in Iraq is Widespread

Aired November 29, 2004 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Unfolding this hour, the search for a TV executive's missing son, following a deadly plane crash in Colorado. We're standing by for a news conference expected to begin momentarily. We'll take you there live for coverage.

Also, new violence in Iraq. More American deaths, and the Iraqi government's determination to hold elections on schedule. We're live from Baghdad.

And the United States Supreme Court hearing arguments over medicine and marijuana, after sidestepping the same-sex marriage debate. We'll explain why both cases are important to states' rights advocates.

A very busy hour ahead. First, some other headlines "Now in the News."

Score a point for Iran in the tough negotiations to prevent it from developing nuclear weapons. The United Nations nuclear agency passes a resolution that allows Tehran some legal room on honoring all of its pledges. Now Washington is threatening to end-run the agreement by taking the case straight to the U.N. Security Council.

An Army helicopter crashed this morning near Fort Hood, Texas. At this hour there's no information on the seven people on board. A spokesman for a local television station says the chopper clipped a wire attached to the station's tower.

A big winter storm moving eastward out of the Rockies. Parts of Colorado are shoveling out from today -- shoveling out today from under several feet of snow. If it isn't falling already, snow is likely today in parts of Kansas, Missouri, Iowa and Illinois.

First this hour, that plane crash out in Colorado and the unknown fate of a teenage passenger. The jet plane crashed on takeoff and burst into flames. And nearly 24 hours later, 14-year-old Teddy Ebersol remains unaccounted for.

Two people were killed. Two survived, including Ebersol's older brother and his father, Dick, who is chairman of NBC Sports.

CNN's Sean Callebs is standing by live at the scene of the crash. He's awaiting a news conference for us with an update. Sean, what is the latest?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we are waiting for that news conference to begin. Scott Brownlee, the director of the Montrose Regional Airport, scheduled to come out at 10:00 local time. That is noon Eastern.

We did see a couple of law enforcement officers go inside the airport a short while ago. We don't know what impact, if any at all, that could have. Let me bring you up to date on exactly what we do know now.

Yesterday, that chartered jet was scheduled to take off right about now 24 hours ago. It started at this end of the runway, went down.

An eyewitness saw the plane veer to the right, and then apparently the pilot tried to correct it, come back to the left. It skidded off the runway, through a fence, over a ravine, down into a depressed area. At that point, the cockpit was simply smashed.

The eyewitness took some very dramatic still pictures. You see a plume of thick smoke going up, also some flames down where the fuselage of the airplane was believed to have been.

Now, Dick Ebersol survived the crash. He was apparently pulled from the wreckage by his oldest son, who is a student at Notre Dame University. The eyewitness that took the picture joined an airport employee, and they were the first ones to arrive on the crash scene and describe what they saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK DISTEL, WITNESS: You could definitely smell fuel. There was small flames starting to -- starting to -- out of the front and back of the airplane, both, there were small flames starting to rise. And you could tell it was just a matter of time before, you know, that thing went into a big inferno of flames.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: And that's -- and that's exactly what did happen. The plane exploded in flames.

Both the pilot, co-pilot were killed. Apparently, a third individual on the plane who was serving as a crew member did survive. But as, Wolf, you mentioned at the top of the newscast, the 14-year- old son of Dick Ebersol, Edward "Teddy" Ebersol, apparently the seat he was in was thrown clear of the wreckage at the time of impact.

And what makes this even more agonizingly difficult for the family, they have been unable to locate Edward Ebersol over the past 24 hours. We know crews were out there all day yesterday. They were using helicopters, they were on foot.

It's very rugged terrain down at the end of this runway. There are a number of irrigation ditches. There is like a canal-like area is the way it's described to us.

The area is cordoned off by a number of law enforcement officers. No one is allowed near.

We expect the FAA and NTSB to be on the scene soon. If they haven't arrived already, they should be here shortly.

We're also told right now you can see over my shoulder a number of authorities just left the airport. We can pretty much presume these are the ones, Wolf, who will be coming to bring us up to date on exactly what we do know at this hour.

Certainly, one of the things the FAA and other federal investigators are going to look at, the weather. You can see now a decent amount of snow on the ground. But over the past 48 hours, a significant blizzard in the Colorado area.

Parts of the state receiving three feet of snow. Down here the altitude is only 4,800 feet, significantly lower than Aspen or Vail, other areas to the north.

And at the time the plane did take off yesterday, there was some light snow falling. But it had been snowing very heavily. We know the plane was de-iced.

This is also a somewhat old aircraft, the 600 Challenger Series. It was developed by Bill Leer of Leer Jet back in the 1970s. It went into production in late 1970s. And they stopped producing this particular model around 1983.

OK. We see some people at the podium now, Wolf. I'll stop talking and we can hear what they have to say.

BLITZER: All right. Sean, let's listen in. I think this is going to be Scott Brownlee, the Montrose Airport manager.

We'll hear what he says. This is the airport -- here we go. Let's listen.

SCOTT BROWNLEE, MONTROSE REGIONAL AIRPORT MANAGER: Are you ready? My name's Scott Brownlee. I'm the airport manager for Montrose Regional Airport.

Thanks for everybody coming out this morning. I wish it were under better circumstances.

I'll tell you what we do know, and then take a few questions. If I can't answer them at this point, there are a lot of questions that are still unanswered.

We had a Challenger aircraft, which is a large corporate general aviation airport -- or aircraft, departed the airport approximately 10:00 yesterday morning. It departed off runway 31, and ended up coming to rest just to the north of the airport.

We have confirmed six passengers, six people on board that aircraft. Three known survivors. Two were transferred -- all three were transported to local hospitals. Two confirmed fatalities. And as of this morning still have one person missing.

I do have a press release from the coroner's office that I can hand out to you folks afterwards. Two confirmed fatalities. Names have been released. And I can give you a press release from them after we're done here this morning.

With that, I'll try to answer any questions I can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Brownlee, did anybody here at the airport, any of the airport workers, see ice on the wings of that plane?

BROWNLEE: I wasn't on scene when the aircraft took off yesterday. And I don't -- I haven't had that information from anybody at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you haven't talked to anybody who observed that sort of condition?

BROWNLEE: We have talked to a number of the employees, but until NTSB is here, until an investigation has taken place, I'll reserve comment on those -- those types of questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you expect NTSB to show up?

BROWNLEE: We're told that they're en route and they should be here sometime before noon time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you confirm -- was the plane de-iced before it took off?

BROWNLEE: I don't -- I can't confirm or deny that at this point. I don't have that information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scott, are you going to be looking through the wreckage today as part of your search for the missing person?

BROWNLEE: There was a search, a pretty extensive search. It continued all yesterday and into the evening hours last night. And I'm sure once NTSB gets on board, gets on site with their investigation, the search will continue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

BROWNLEE: I don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were commercial flights here yesterday being de-iced about that same time?

BROWNLEE: When I was on scene, I did see one commercial flight take off yesterday, and it was de-iced before it departed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that -- what's the policy on that? BROWNLEE: That's up to the individual airlines as to whether they de-ice or not. And in the case of a corporate airplane, it's the pilot and command's decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the status of the search for the young man right now? Is it still suspended? You're waiting for the NTSB? You're searching? What's going on right now?

BROWNLEE: I've been out to the site once this morning. And at this point there's no search going on. We're waiting for NTSB to arrive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was reports that a seat from the plane was missing. What's the possibility of a missing seat?

BROWNLEE: I don't have any information on that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there someone from the coroner's office? I mean, is there any way -- the conclusion you would draw would be that the young man has perished at the -- in the crash.

BROWNLEE: Well, the information I have I have given to you this morning. At this point, I can't make that conclusion myself. And I don't know if there's a coroner's representative out here this morning or not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a gentleman with "Coroner" on his ball cap right behind you.

BROWNLEE: I guess I would defer to him if he wants to address those questions or not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you come up to the mike?

MATT EILTS, CHIEF DEPUTY CORONER, MONTROSE COUNTY: What's the question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, have you been out to the scene?

EILTS: Yes, I've been on the scene since the initial crash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you step up to the mike, please?

EILTS: I've been on the scene since the initial accident. We have done a complete thorough search of the area surrounding the crash site, looking for the potential of an ejection. And have been unsuccessful in finding anybody.

We believe at this time that the boy has probably perished within the crash. We're waiting for NTSB now to further investigate and search through the wreckage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it a matter of you don't want to disturb the wreckage until NTSB gets on the scene?

EILTS: Well, myself and another deputy got approval from NTSB yesterday to -- to search the wreckage and try and find some remains. And we did so into the night and were unsuccessful.

Since then, we have -- since the storm moved in, and we got -- we were unable to find anything to get through the wreckage. We ceased our search until today, when NTSB will arrive. And we do not believe to find a survivor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could we get your name, please?

EILTS: My name is Matt Eilts. I'm the chief deputy coroner from Montrose County.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you spell that?

EILTS: E-I-L-T-S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any plans to search the canal?

EILTS: Yes. We did search the creek yesterday, all alongside, and then we did not get into the canal.

There was not debris scattered that far. So we do not believe there's anything in the canal, but we will search the canal.

Any further questions? We have contacted family for both the deceased, and their names have been released in a press release earlier this morning. And, as you know, there are three survivors, one in critical condition in Denver Health Hospital right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you searched the ravine with the water in it?

EILTS: Yes, sir, we did.

Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scott, does the press release identify the third survivor?

BROWNLEE: No, it does not. It just identifies the two deceased.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could we have the name of the third survivor?

BROWNLEE: I don't have that information, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does anybody?

BROWNLEE: I don't know.

Thanks for all coming out. If you want -- afterwards, I've got copies of the press release. I don't know if I've got enough for everybody, but I'll pass out what I do have.

Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could I make a quick statement, too?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. Could you...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. My name is Dale Erikson (ph). I'm with the Montrose Fire Protection District.

There was some confusion and some reports that there was a delay in our response. I want to put those to rest.

We received the call at 10:00 a.m., and we arrived on scene at 10:06. So I just wanted you guys to be aware of that. That that's typical response time for that area and our fire district. So I just wanted you to be aware of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.

BLITZER: And so there it is, the news conference at the Montrose Regional Airport, not far from Telluride in Colorado. A plane crashed 24 hours ago.

The plane crash involving the chief -- the chairman of NBC Sports and his family. Two sons, two confirmed deaths, the pilot and the co- pilot, we're told. Three survivors, including Dick Ebersol, the chairman of NBC Sports, his son, Charles, a student at Notre Dame.

But bad news as far as the 14-year-old Teddy Ebersol is concerned. The coroner saying they don't believe he survived.

He's still missing. The search has been withdrawn, pending the arrival of the National Transportation Safety Board investigators.

Sean Callebs is on the scene for us.

Sean, this airport, this Montrose Regional Airport, is that the same airport as the Telluride Airport, or is this one about 20 miles or so away?

CALLEBS: This one is a different, Wolf. We can tell you that what we're told, this is a much larger runway. This is an airport that is suited to handle the kind of corporate jets that can come in, bring in the affluent, the wealthy, people who do spend vacation time in Telluride. And also, we saw a very large passenger jetliner take off from here earlier today after some extensive de-icing.

And you're exactly right, the real heartbreaking part about all of this, when they said still looking for the 14-year-old boy, I can tell you, we've been out for here seven hours. The temperature still in the teens. It just stopped snowing a couple of hours ago.

There's no easy way to say this, Wolf. But it would seem very, very improbable that anybody could survive these conditions throughout the night.

You also heard the coroner say that they looked in a -- in some waterway, but not in a canal down there. From what we're told from some of the local residents, this is a somewhat deep canal. It's about 15 feet across. If there was that ejection that we heard the airport authorities talk about, possibly the seat could have gone into that canal. So certainly that is going to be some painstaking work, considering these weather conditions out here. But everything apparently on hold right now as they wait for the federal officials to get to the scene and really take control of this investigation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. We'll continue to monitor it with you. Sean Callebs reporting from the Montrose Regional Airport in Colorado.

A very sad story indeed. NBC sports chairman Dick Ebersol survived, together with his elder son -- oldest son, Charles. Teddy, the 14-year-old, still missing, presumed dead, according to Matt Eilts, the coroner in the region.

We'll watch the story for you, and get some more information as it becomes available, including the condition of Dick Ebersol himself. He's in a hospital in the area.

Let's move on now to other news we're following, especially here in Washington.

From Cuba to the president's cabinet. Carlos Gutierrez, the charismatic CEO of Kellogg, has been pegged to help shape America's economic future. Elaine Quijano is joining us now from the White House where the president made the announcement within the past hour -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Wolf.

President Bush, as he looks ahead to move forward on his economic agenda, as you mentioned, announcing his choice to replace Commerce Secretary Don Evans. Carlos Gutierrez, that announcement that he will be the nominee made just about an hour or so ago in the Roosevelt Room of the White House. The president calling Gutierrez a "great American success story."

Now, if confirmed by the Senate, the president says that Gutierrez would take office at a time of opportunity, a time when the president very much wants to press ahead on issues like tax reform and Social Security reform. Mr. Bush saying that Gutierrez's leadership would help accomplish those goals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Carlos Gutierrez, the Department of Commerce will have an experienced manager and an innovative leader. He will be a strong principled voice for American business and an inspiration to millions of men and women who dream of a better life in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, the president also noting Gutierrez's personal background, saying he first worked as a truck driver for Kellogg and rose to the highest level. Gutierrez has, in fact, been the chairman of the board of Kellogg's since April of 2000.

He's been chief executive officer since April 1999. He joined Kellogg's offices in Mexico in 1975 as a sales representative. And he was born in Havana, Cuba.

Now, the president also had some warm wishes for his outgoing Commerce secretary, Don Evans. The president saying that Evans led during a time of economic difficulties, of the September 11 attacks, a recession, corporate scandals, and also noting that Don Evans has been, in fact, a friend of the president's for some three decades -- Wolf.

BLITZER: He loves those personal success stories, the president of the United States. Condoleezza Rice from the segregated South now nominated to become secretary of state. Alberto Gonzales, the son of migrant workers, nominated to become the attorney general. And Carlos Gutierrez, born in Cuba, now nominated to be the Commerce secretary.

Elaine Quijano, thanks very much for that report.

More evidence today the insurgency in Iraq is widespread. Once again, Iraqi security forces were the main targets. This time in Baghdadi -- that's near Ramadi. More U.S. troops also fell victim to the violence.

CNN's Karl Penhaul is in Baghdad, and he's got details -- Karl.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Wolf.

The first of those attacks was this morning in a northwestern neighborhood of Baghdad. A U.S. military convoy driving down the road, and a roadside bomb explode. We understand from U.S. military sources that two U.S. soldiers were killed in that.

Then around mid afternoon in the city of Baghdadi, which is about 130 miles west of Baghdad, a suicide car bomber drove into a police station there. Six people were killed, eight others were wounded. Four of the dead we understand are policemen.

In fact, this is the second time that that police station has been hit in about a month. We understand today was payday there. All of this, though, goes to the heart of why the debate, the debate as to whether the security environment is going to be stable enough to hold elections as scheduled on January 30.

Now, as we know, just before the weekend, a group of secular religious and regional parties did call for postponement of the elections by up to six months. The government has since come out and said, no way, we don't want a delay, we want to press ahead with this January 30 deadline, which, after all, has been mandated in a United Nations Security Council resolution.

There are also then the Shiite Muslim majority. The leaders from their political parties have come forward and said, no, let's have this on time, let's have these elections at the earliest opportunity. And there's even a third camp, if you like. That of some of the Muslim religious leaders. They've come out and called for a boycott of these elections altogether on the grounds that they want more occupation forces, as they term them, to leave the country altogether before any elections can be held -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl reporting for us from Baghdad. Karl, thank you very much.

The price of the crisis in Ukraine is rising once again today. Eight days after a disputed election there is still no clear winner. And as the country's highest courts considers what to do next, there's increasing talk today of starting all over.

CNN's Jill Dougherty joining us once again live from Kiev with the latest.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, we've got some really very rapidly-changing political events here in Kiev, Ukraine. You have the supreme court, which has been meeting all day and listening to the opposition make their claim that that election that was held a week and day ago was fatally flawed, filled with irregularities, and should be carried out again.

Then you have this afternoon President Leonid Kuchma reportedly indicating that he would go for new elections.

And then, finally, the man who announced as the winner of the election, Mr. Yanukovych, he is the prime minister. He, too, said that he would be open to the possibility of new elections, at least in two of the disputed areas.

And that is exactly what the opposition wants. They want these elections to be rerun. They say they were not carried out properly, mildly put. And they want -- if they're held again, they want the problems taken care of so that that will not happen again.

The opposition candidate, meanwhile, Viktor Yushchenko, going down to the square again, Independence Square, meeting with hundreds of thousands of supporters and telling them -- sounding very positive -- that "you changed this country in the past week, that you've been on the streets, and it wouldn't have happened unless you had been on the streets" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jill Dougherty with a rapidly-changing situation in Ukraine for us. Jill, thank you very, very much.

Up next...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you have problems, if you're in trouble, I will come help you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: ... keeping the peace while weeding out the enemy. What's the coalition trying to accomplish? We'll get perspective from a "Los Angeles Times" correspondent who is in Baghdad and has been mulling around.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Despite the growing violence and local opposition, very vocal, indeed, Iraqi leaders say they will see an election two months from now. John Hendren is in Iraq reporting for the "Los Angels Times." He's joining us live from Baghdad.

John, you have been there now for two weeks. What's your bottom- line assessment right now? Will these elections scheduled for January 30 realistically take place?

JOHN HENDREN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": It seems almost unavoidable that they're going to take place, Wolf. The American government has made it clear that it wants these elections to go forward out of a fear, apparently, that if you postpone it once, you can postpone it a lot of times.

The Iraqis, or at least the provisional government, appears intent on continuing the elections on the January 30 date. And the groups that want a delay don't seem to have the power to delay it.

BLITZER: Well, the groups that want to delay are some of the Sunnis, and even, we're hearing, some of the Kurdish political parties, the two main political parties representing the Kurds in the north, about 20 percent of the population. I was pretty surprised to hear that the Kurds want to see a delay given the fact that they have been the most loyal supporters of the U.S.-led invasion from day one.

HENDREN: Interesting. They used to be loose allies of the Shiites, it seemed. And then now, with the calls for delay, it seems as though they're loose allies with the Sunnis, which is a change. However, you hear some equivocal voices within that community, and it is by no means clear that anyone is making any moves to delay this election despite those calls by the Kurds, as well.

BLITZER: Yesterday I spoke with Adnan Pachachi, one of the Sunni leaders, a former president of the now defunct Iraqi Provisional Authority, and -- and he made it clear that, because the security situation was so tenuous right now, especially in the Sunni-dominated areas, the so-called Sunni Triangle, it just didn't make sense to go forward with elections. And he's been a strong supporter of the U.S., as well.

What do you make of that?

HENDREN: He's got a point. In al-Anbar Province, the province where Falluja is, and where Ramadi is, there is not a single election registration site open. And that means that in this Sunni-dominated area, so far nobody is registered to vote.

They're going to put registration in with the food program packets that 95 percent of Iraqis receive there. But that by no means makes it clear that people are gong to actually register and then vote in an area that is by far among the least safe areas in Iraq right now.

I just got back from Ramadi, and I can tell you that people were not out in the streets, people were not frequenting shops. There was gunfire every day during the past four days. And it is not an area where you can immediately foresee people going out to vote.

BLITZER: Because if you speak Ayad Allawi, the interim prime minister, he makes the point that there are 18 provinces in Iraq, and really 14 of them are pretty secure, pretty safe. There may be four in the Sunni Triangle, which is pretty unsafe by all accounts.

But those are the areas where the Sunnis live. They're the majority in those areas, and if they don't vote, then the Shiites are really going to dominate this new government, whatever government emerges after January 30, which is -- which is something that they are very fearful of given the history of them dominating the Shiites and the Kurds during Saddam Hussein's tenure.

HENDREN: Yes, it's really hard to -- to overestimate what is going on here. I mean, the Bush administration fought this war for two reasons: to find weapons of mass destruction and to create a friendly ally here in the Middle East.

They did not find the weapons of mass destruction. And now you run the risk of creating an Iranian-style theocracy if the Shiites completely dominate this election. And you also run the risk of the Sunnis feel disenfranchised and, therefore, further fueling an insurgency that already has become difficult to control.

BLITZER: Take us a little bit -- you have been there for two weeks. What has surprised you most just walking around Baghdad? You have traveled in some of the areas, especially in the Sunni areas. Give us a little flavor of what you have seen and heard.

HENDREN: Well, the last time I was here for a prolonged period was last December. And the thing that strikes me the most is I no longer can walk around Baghdad. I really don't go anywhere except -- I don't go anywhere outside of Baghdad except with a helicopter or a military escort.

In Baghdad, I travel very selectively. And I travel with an armed guard. This is -- this is a year after I and other western journalists used to be able to go shopping for cigars, or going into restaurants. And we just don't do that anymore.

The basic security on the street is dramatically different. By no means is the road from here to the airport secure, on a weekly basis, anyway, there are attacks on convoys out there, if not on a daily basis. BLITZER: So the situation, at least in the area where you've been, John, has deteriorated dramatically. We hear this repeatedly from reporters and others who've gone to Baghdad last year as opposed to this year. It's night and day, is that a fair assessment?

HENDREN: It really is. The insurgents have done a number of things to make it far less safe. The beheadings really intimidate Westerners, but they're also intimidating Iraqis. They're doing this by threatening the families of people. In Ramadi, where I just was, I was told by military commanders there that the national guard is basically ineffective because they're under so much threat to their families in a very tightly knit, tribal area. So they're going to have to import national guard troops, Iraqi national guard troops, from elsewhere, and they've got commandos out there, but they have them living on the base, and these are commandos from other regions. And the idea behind is that their families won't be threatened by local insurgents.

BLITZER: One final question, John. Some of your colleagues have grown mustaches or beards to try to blend into the population a little bit more. Are you thinking about doing that?

HENDREN: I'm here for too short a time. I think I've got too slow of growth to do that.

BLITZER: All right, John Hendren, not going to grow a beard or a mustache, but be safe over there. We'll speak to you soon. Thanks very much, John Hendren, reporting for "The Los Angeles Times."

HENDREN: Thank you.

BLITZER: We've got a story we're following out of the United Nations right now. The Secretary-General Kofi Annan for the first time speaking out about his son amid questions concerning payoffs that Kojo (ph) Annan received allegedly from a firm contracted under the U.N.'s Iraqi oil-for-food program.

Our senior U.N. correspondent has been covering this important story for us. He's joining us now live.

Richard, what's happening?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN. SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, additional heat on Secretary-General Kofi Annan, and today, and this past week, it's all due to heat on his son, Kojo Annan. The son worked for a company, Kotechna (ph), which handled much of the inspections of the oil-for- food goods in that $60 billion-plus humanitarian program, worked out with Saddam Hussein and the United Nations. This program went on years before the war started.

Now according to what has been revealed, the son, Kojo Annan, it was known he received payments by this firm working with the U.N. But it was thought that the payments stopped, at least by 1998 or 1999. Now it turns out the payments to Kojo Annan from this company that handled the inspections of goods went on up until this year, and it appears the secretary-general was not aware of the activities of his own son. I asked him what he knew today and when did he know it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Actually I have warm family relations with my son, but he's in a different field. He's an independent. He's a grown man, and I don't get involved with his activities and he doesn't get involved in mine.

And also as I stated earlier, I have no involvement with granting of contracts, either on this particular one or others, and I would also suggest that if you have any questions about his business activities, direct it to him or the companies concerned. In the meantime, I would ask you all to be patient until Mr. Volcker completes his work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Annan said he was surprised and disappointed in his son. He said he spoke to Kojo Annan, who was a businessman, living in either Nigeria or London, but he wouldn't reveal the details of the conversation. He did not come back to the microphone when I asked him about calls today in major newspapers for Annan to resign.

The Kotechna company and Kojo Annan's lawyers say Kojo Annan was working in West Africa, was not part of any oil-for-food dealings, but Annan himself acknowledged, there is a problem of perception of a conflict of interest. The U.N.'s own independent panel, run by Paul Volcker, continues, Wolf, to investigate all of this as does several congressional committees -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Paul Volcker, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve here in Washington. When do we expect his report to be released?

ROTH: Early interim report in January. He says mid year. The Congress is moving on its own front, and there's still this dispute. The U.N. insists it will not share information or audits. It wants its own probe to handle everything, not wanting to spread all of this data around.

BLITZER: Richard Roth reporting on this story for us.

Richard, thanks very much for that.

Marijuana and medicine, a case of legal drugs and state's rights. Will the U.S. Supreme Court take on the issue of allowing pot for healing purposes? We'll have a live report from today's hearings under way over at the U.S. Supreme Court. They're listening to arguments.

And will American lawmakers vote on a new intelligence bill before the end of this year? We'll talk about that and more after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Supporters call it a lifesaver. Critics call it an illegal drug. The issue of medical marijuana once again before the U.S. Supreme Court, in a case that pits the states against the federal government.

Our Bob Franken is joining us now live from outside the Supreme Court. They've been hearing arguments, I take it. Bob, what's going on?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, at the core, of course, this is the question about the use of medical marijuana. Eleven states allow it. Two of those who are in California, one of those 11 states.

In court today, the federal government has legislation, the Controlled Substance Act, which prohibits the sale or production of marijuana. And as a result of that, federal agents came into California and destroyed some marijuana crops that were being grown, according to the court briefs, strictly for medical use, the private use of the people who have the authority to do so, they say, under state of California law. That is the human issue.

What is at issue here for the justices is the constitutional fight, the ongoing fight of state's rights, and in particular, the commerce clause of the Constitution, which gives Congress the right to legislate in state commerce, commerce -- quote -- "between the several states."

Comes now the question, is this private use strictly within California interstate commerce? The federal government, the acting solicitor general Paul Clements (ph) says, yes, that is the case, because any production of marijuana contributes to the overall production, which affects interstate commerce. Arguing on the other side, a lawyer said it is all hypothetical. Those are the sweeping constitutional arguments, but this is a very personal issue for both sides.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it wasn't for cannabis, I really would not be here today to you fighting for my rights, and I feel strongly that the justices should really think very hardly about the facts that are before them, because today, if they decide that I have the right to live, then I will be able to spend the rest of my life with my family. On the other hand, if they side against me, it means that they would be giving me a death sentence.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is important for the public to understand that not none of this is being driven by doctors. It has been rejected. Marijuana is rejected as a medicine by all of the major medical associations. It is a handful of people who want to see, not just marijuana, but all drugs legalized.

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... rejected. Marijuana is rejected as a medicine by all of the major medical associations. It is a handful of people who want to see not just marijuana but all drugs legalized.

FRANKEN: So you can tell that these are issues that are much more fundamental than just state's rights when it comes to the human level, the Supreme Court will be determining just what role the state has in allowing the use of drugs and what role the federal government has and what happens when they clash -- Wolf.

BLITZER: There was another state's right issue that came up before the Supreme Court, mainly Massachusetts and the same-sex marriage law that is in effect there, has been in effect for almost a year or so. What happened at the Supreme Court today in considering what's going on in Massachusetts?

FRANKEN: The short answer, Wolf, is nothing. But of course that has significance. The court decided not to, quote, "grant certiorari," which is to say, to take up the case of the law in Massachusetts which permits gay marriages. That means that the law stands in Massachusetts. It did not overturn Massachusetts Supreme Court.

However, there are other cases percolating in the lower courts. Any of those may provide issues that would be of interest to the justices here so it may come up again.

BLITZER: All right. Not the end of this story by any means. Bob Franken, reporting for us from the Supreme Court, Bob, thanks very much.

Let's move to another important issue we're following. Iran making a deal, hoping to dodge possibly U.N. sanctions over its nuclear program. Washington so far is not buying it. And there's the issue of Ukraine, it's Supreme Court jumping into the fray over that country's election stalemate. Here for today's hot topic debate, two guests. Lawrence Korb is a former assistant secretary of defense, he's now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress here in Washington. And Frank Gaffney is the founder and president of the Center for Security Policy. He too is a former assistant secretary of defense. They worked during the Reagan administration although they both wound up 20 years later with very different views on a lot of these subjects.

Let's talk about Iran first and foremost. It looks like they have reached a deal very tentative. Secretary of State Powell, other U.S. officials though are suggesting it may not be good enough and that the U.S. may unilaterally have to go to the U.N. Security Council to try to impose sanctions against Iran. What do you make of the current state of this situation?

LAWRENCE KORB, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Well, what you have basically is the Europeans and United States playing good cop and bad cop. The Europeans are trying to get Iran to slow down the development of nuclear weapons. The United States basically is holding the military option in reserve. And the Europeans are saying, accept our deal because you don't want the United States either to use military action or take it to the Security Council.

But the key thing is the United States and Europe have to be in this together because if you do put sanctions on and if they don't slow down their development of nuclear weapons, it has to be both the Europeans and the United States. We have sanctions right now but the Europeans don't. It's going to have to be both of us together.

BLITZER: What do you think, Frank?

FRANK GAFFNEY, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: Well, I wish Larry were right on this. I think what's happening unfortunately is that the Europeans are playing sort of handmaidens to the Russians and Chinese, who as the other parties to the U.N. Security Council with the right to veto, they would just as soon not have themselves put on the spot supporting an Iran that is clearly hellbent for leather to get nuclear weapons.

The United States I think has been trying to work with all of the parties to put a brake on this. But unfortunately, what I feel this deal is going to do is simply give the government of Iran, the mullahs there, time to continue, covertly to be sure, but nonetheless time to continue to pursue this weapons program.

BLITZER: But realistically if you don't have the European allies, whether it's France or Britain even onboard, let alone China and Russia, you're not going to get a U.N. Security Council resolution passed that would impose sanctions on Iran if just the U.S. and maybe one or two other countries in the Security Council supported it.

GAFFNEY: That's regrettably the case. And unfortunately what we're going to see again, I'm afraid, is the U.N. Security Council being used as an excuse for doing nothing, for allowing this kind of, if you will, "peace in our time" deal to be struck once again with people who have no intention of honoring it and giving up the nuclear weapons option they've clearly (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at for years.

KORB: Well, I think Iran has to make a decision whether in fact getting this new nuclear weapon, which is not going to make them safer, is worth the price that they will have to pay. And I think that's really why you need the world to make that clear to them as we did with Libya. People forget how successful we were with Libya. An effort that started almost 15 years before they finally agreed to give up the weapons.

And you don't have any good options. People talk about a military option like we could easily do it. They've dispersed their facilities. You wouldn't get them all in a strike. Given how bogged down we are in Iraq, there's nothing we can do in terms of things like...

BLITZER: There's no simple solution. An Israeli air strike against some nuclear reactor, which is what the Israelis did in '81 against the Iraqi Reactor at Osirak, there's no viable military option as far as you can tell, is there?

GAFFNEY: Well, I think there are military options that would be perhaps therapeutic in the sense that they would physically disrupt parts of the program. But you're not going to put the program out of business for any length of time, which is, of course, what the Osirak reactor raid did. The danger here is if we don't get behind the people of Iran who I think really are anxious to be unburdened of this oppressive regime -- a regime that, by the way, is not only building nuclear weapons, we talk about this as though it is sort of in isolation. It is also one of the pre-eminent state sponsors of terror around the world, among other places, in Iraq...

BLITZER: It's a charter member of President Bush's axis of evil.

GAFFNEY: It is a very dangerous place to have with nuclear weapons. And I think the people of Iran are our best hope in trying to prevent that from happening.

KORB: The people of Iran, even those who don't like the regime, are not anti-nuclear because they see that as a -- like the Indians did, as a badge of their becoming a significant power. And the idea that somehow or another the people who want democracy there is not necessarily true. And that's where I think people make a big mistake.

GAFFNEY: But this is a critical point, Wolf. There is a difference between nuclear weapons in the hands of a democratic society that is peaceable and that is interested in its own defense. We see that in a lot of places. That's one of the reasons why I don't worry about Israel having nuclear weapons, for example, or the United States for that matter.

Those who think that it is weapons that are a problem, however, mistake this. The weapons in hands of dangerous people is the problem.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to take a quick break. But we have much more to talk about. We want to also alert our viewers to this. We have a question that we want to ask you. It is related to a certain degree. Who do you think should replace William Safire at "The New York Times"? He is the famed columnist, the Pulitzer Prize- winner. He's giving up that prestigious column in January. We want to hear from you. Who would to see replace William Safire at "The New York Times"? Go ahead and e-mail me right now. Our address wolf@cnn.com. Later today on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" 5:00 p.m. Eastern, we're going to tell you some of the names that you would like to see emerge as the next conservative columnist for "The New York Times". Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Welcome back. We're debating today's hot topics with two guests, Lawrence Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, and Frank Gaffney, the founder and president of the Center for Security Policy.

Frank, I'll start with you this time. Ukraine. Why should Americans care who is elected president of Ukraine?

GAFFNEY: It's not just about Ukraine. It's also about will we see and will we accommodate ourselves to the reconstitution of, at the very least, a greater Russia, if not something akin to the old Soviet empire. Will we see the Russian populous of Ukraine essentially given the ability to steal the election from the Ukrainian nationals who, I believe, have very clearly indicated they'd prefer to be in the West and not part of a reconstitution (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BLITZER: So you fear there could be a revival of the Cold War?

GAFFNEY: I'm afraid that there is afoot an effort to rebuild the other superpower that gave us fits during the Cold War. It won't be the exactly the same, but it can be a problem just the same.

BLITZER: Larry?

KORB: No, I don't think it's a revival of the Cold War, but I think it's -- the administration is talking about pushing freedom and democracy around the world and they do not lean on Putin, I think they're going to be seen as hypocritical. It's also an area for us and the Europeans to work together. The Europeans have been out front on this issue. We need to repair our relations with them. And then, finally, the question is do you want a Europe whole and free or do you want to sort of separate parts of Europe from the rest of Europe?

BLITZER: On the 9/11 intelligence reform legislation, they're coming back next week, a lame duck session of Congress, do you sense either side is going to blink?

GAFFNEY: I hope not. I think the standoff is good for the country in the sense it gives us an opportunity to review all of this with greater care and deliberation than was possible in the hasty...

BLITZER: Do you like what's happening right now? As opposed to these changes?

GAFFNEY: It's a mess, but it's better than the mess that will happen if they upset, I think, the apple cart of the intelligence community by foisting this bill on them.

BLITZER: One of the rules of legislation is first do no damage.

KORB: That's correct. But I think the other rule is we don't want another 9/11 to happen again. And as Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton made it very clear yesterday, time is not on our side unless we get this thing done, we risk not having someone correct (sic) all the dots. And even John Lehman, who's the most pro-Pentagon person and service person I know, does not think this is going to be undermine the ability of the Pentagon to do its job.

BLITZER: Even (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

GAFFNEY: But the Joint Chiefs of Staff disagree with him on that. And I would argue that, while these guys have a lot invested in getting this bill done, if everybody from the "Washington Post" to the "Wall Street Journal" editorial pages have recognized that we will benefit from having more care and deliberation go into it.

BLITZER: We've been asking our viewers to write to me at wolf@cnn.com to tell us who they'd like to see emerge as William Safire's successor on the op-ed page of the "New York Times."

Frank Gaffney, you're a good conservative, you've been reading William Safire ever since he left the Nixon White House to become a columnist at the "New York Times." Who do you think should be considered by the top publishers over at the "New York Times"?

GAFFNEY: I have a personal favorite, and that's Monica Crowley. A terrific young conservative woman writer, television personality, radio personality. I think she could do a terrific job in that slot.

KORB: Well, I think Bob Kagan, who's at the Carnegie Foundation, writes a column for the "Washington Post," would be terrific. I think Bill Kristol, if he would leave "The Weekly Standard," would also be terrific. And then, David Frum, who was a speech writer for Bush like Safire was for President Nixon.

BLITZER: All good names. Good names indeed. We'll continue to ask our viewers.

GAFFNEY: Stay tuned.

BLITZER: That's right, our Mary Snow is doing a piece on this that will air at 5:00 today on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." And if you would like to weigh in, write to me right now, go to cnn.com/wolf. Actually, you can also e-mail me directly at wolf@cnn.com. Who do you think should replace William Safire at the "New York Times"? We want to hear from you. We'll let you know what you think -- what our viewers think, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, later today. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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BLITZER: I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS", among other things we're trying to answer this question: Who do you think should replace William Safire at the "New York Times"? You can e-mail me right now, got to cnn -- go to wolf@cnn.com, wolf@cnn.com. We want to hear who you think should replace William Safire at the "New York Times". Until 5:00 p.m. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

"LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Tony Harris is up next.

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