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American Morning
'Paging Dr. Gupta'; Officials Believe They Have Found Body of Dick Ebersol's 14-Year-Old Son
Aired November 30, 2004 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We got these pictures just in to CNN. As you can see,the courtroom proceedings about to get under as Chai Vang, 36 years old and charged in six counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder. He's there, you see him to the right of your screen in the orange jumpsuit. This is his first court appearance. He's in Hayward, Wisconsin He is jailed on $2.5 million bail, and there are concerns for his security today, as the court proceedings begin in a very small community. We're going to continue to follow what happens with this case. He, of course, is charged in that deer hunter slaying that happened just days ago.
We're going to continue to follow this story, bring you up to speed on what happens there.
Meanwhile, it's 9:30 here on the East Coast. It's half past the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
New information about that plane crash involving NBC executive Dick Ebersol, which killed one of his sons. In just a few moments, we're going to hear from the NTSB chairwoman, talk about preflight safety measures that were left undone and whether that could have contributed to the crash.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also, finding a perfect recruiting tool in a V-8 engine. We'll talk to Joe Nemechek, who drives the "Go Army" car on the NASCAR circuit. They call him G.I. Joe, as well as commander in charge of recruiting. We'll find out why stock car racing is a natural, according to the military, when it comes to pitching the Armed Forces to young men and women.
Another check of the headlines this morning. Heidi Collins here for that.
Good morning, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys, and good morning to you, everyone.
President Bush en route to Canada at this hour for the first state visit by a U.S. president there in nearly 10 years. The president leaving Andrews Air Force Base about 20 minutes ago. President Bush will try to patch up relations with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. Ties between the two countries have soured over trade disputes and the war in Iraq.
CNN has just learned Vice President Dick Cheney will meet with 9/11 commission members today. The vice president expected to meet with commission panel chairs Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton to try and break the deadlock on intelligence reform legislation. Hamilton said if the bill is not wrapped up during the end of the lame duck session, Congress will have to start from scratch in January.
In California, the penalty phase of the Scott Peterson trial set to get under way in just under three hours from now. The same jurors who found Peterson guilty of murdering his wife and unborn son will now decide if he should spend the rest of his life in prison, or get the death penalty.
And finally a new study suggests stress can make you feel 10 years older. Researchers say stress wears down immune cells. The findings, based on a small study, could explain why people under intense long-term emotional strain get sick and grow old faster. The report is in the new issue of "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences." I'm getting that journal.
S. O'BRIEN: The one thing you knew was true, but you didn't know why it was true.
M. O'BRIEN: A new subscriber right there.
COLLINS: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, thanks very much.
Universities that don't allow military recruiters on campus can now do so without fear of losing federal funding. This from a federal appeals court in Philadelphia. The 2-1 ruling says the law that linked the recruiting visits to the flow of funds violates the First Amendment. Now the suit was filed by several law schools, but the ruling applies to all institutions of higher learning. The Justice Department has not announced any plans for an appeal just yet.
Those recruiters are under a lot of pressure to keep the ranks of the Armed Forces replenished, particularly now, and while the Bush administration categorically rules out the possibility of a draft, there is broad and deep support for drafting, NASCAR style. The Army of one is aiming to be No. 1 on the Nextel Cup circuit.
Here to talk about the partnership, NASCAR driver Joe Nemechek and Major General Michael Rochelle.
Good to have you both with us.
General, let's begin with you. I just want to talk about that report we just told folks about, making it more difficult, potentially, for recruiters to visit campuses. Is that a big hindrance?
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL ROCHELLE, U.S. ARMY: Well, it will obviously have an impact, Miles. I don't want to speculate on how much impact it will be, especially since the matter will be appearing before the Justice Department.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, we'll leave it at that.
G.I. Joe now, let's talk about you and the NASCAR Nextel circuit, and what it's like to be out there representing the Army. Do you think it's an effective recruiting tool? And do you have any way of knowing?
JOE NEMECHEK, NASCAR DRIVER: Well, I just know from all the men and women that I meet, new soldiers coming in, meet with them on a weekly basis, and these people are eager to serve our country. And they're my heroes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes? And did you ever think about modifying a Humvee?
NEMECHEK: I don't know how good A Humvee would get around that racetrack. You know, we're going really fast, speeds from 190, 200 miles an hour at some of the faster race tracks. And I'm having fun. You know, I'm really proud and honored to be driving this Army car and representing all the people involved in the program.
M. O'BRIEN: I guess the Humvee has some aerodynamic issues, you might say. General, give us a sense of where this idea came from and what your thoughts are on whether this is an effective way in order to try to recruit?
ROCHELLE: Well, let me start with my thoughts. First of all, let me tell you that Joe is a phenomenal spokesperson for men and women in uniform, soldiers in particular. And he does a fabulous job of representing both the technology, he represents the pride, the winning attitude, and the spirit, and soldiers love him.
You have to view NASCAR, first of all, as part of our overall integrated marketing strategy. It's part of our National Hot Rod Association affiliation, which began in 1991, and was directed by Congress. Congress directed the Army to explore motorsports. And collectively, with NASCAR, NHRA, as well as our outreach activity, that now bridges across the Professional Rodeo and Cowboy Association, professional bull riders, it's a very, very effective way to reach...
M. O'BRIEN: All right, now you have to bring in 100,000 new soldiers every year. That's a big goal. How much does it cost to do all of that recruiting? How much taxpayer money is involved here?
ROCHELLE: Well, let me refine my statement to address the advertising component of that. That's $225 million for fiscal year '05, down from $240 million, $245 million last year. Our NASCAR program represents roughly $16 million of that.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. And money well spent, do you think?
ROCHELLE: It's certainly money well spent.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Joe, final thought here, when you have a bad race, does the general tell you to drop and give you 20?
NEMECHEK: No, actually not. I'm more disappointed in myself. You know, our whole team is -- we take so much pride in having this Army car run well. It gives the men and women just a moment to take a break, and see that Army car out there racing, and it gives them something to be proud of, and I'm proud to be driving it, and we're planning on getting that thing in victory lane many more times.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, you going to outfit it with guns? That could help.
NEMECHEK: I tell you, that could help, but there could be some consequences.
M. O'BRIEN: Might be. Might be. All right, Joe Nemechek and Major General Michael Rochelle, thank you both for joining us. Good luck on the circuit, and drive safe, all right?
NEMECHEK: Thank you.
ROCHELLE: Thank you for having us, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Officials in Colorado believe they have found the body of dick Ebersol's 14-year-old son. Ebersol and two of his sons were onboard a small jet on Sunday when it crashed during takeoff. It happened nearly in the town of Montrose, nearly 200 miles southwest of Denver, and that is where Chris Lawrence is with the very latest on this.
Chris, good morning.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Once they recover the cockpit voice recorder, that was then transported back to Washington D.C. and the headquarters of the National Transportation Safety Board. Officials there tell us they could have some new information as early as today, possibly helping to explain what happened to this plane, and how those people died.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're 99.9 percent sure it's Teddy Ebersol. It matches his physical description, and he of course is the missing person.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): The body believed to be 14-year-old Teddy Ebersol was found after a search surrounding the area of the charred wreckage came empty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body located today was located under the aircraft. We used heavy equipment to lift the aircraft off him and remove his body.
LAWRENCE: The plane crashed Sunday while trying to take off during a snowstorm. The pilot and a flight attendant were also killed. NBC sports chairman Dick Ebersol, his oldest son and the copilot survived. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pilot and the flight attendant who are both deceased were ejected from the aircraft. Actually, as far as I know, the only person who was not ejected was Mr. Ebersol, and Charlie went back, and the 21-year-old went back and pulled his father out of the airplane.
LAWRENCE: It's still not clear if weather was a factor in the crash. The company that deices private planes at the airport did not deice Ebersol's plane before it took off. NTSB investigators are checking the cockpit voice recorder for clues.
ARNOLD SCOTT, NTSB LEAD INVESTIGATOR: What happened was when he taxied it, he called Denver Center, which is in long Longmont (ph), and got his IRF clearance to South Bend. My information is that Denver Center says advise us when you're ready for takeoff. He said we are ready for takeoff right now. That was the last communication they had with him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Now, when it comes to ice being a potential problem, that's still just a theory at this point. But when it comes to corporate planes, it's up to the pilot and his discretion whether to call for that deicing, and in this case, he did not -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Chris Lawrence in Montrose, Colorado for us this morning. Chris, thanks -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Earlier on the program, I spoke with NTSB chair Ellen Engleman Conners about the investigation and the dangers of not deicing the airplane.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELLEN ENGLEMAN CONNERS, NTSB CHAIRWOMAN: These are hard-winged aircraft, Meaning they're very susceptible to buildup of debris, frost or ice, and of course FAA regulations and pilot's handbook indicate that you must have a clear wing when you're taking off in these conditions. So that will be a focus of our investigation.
M. O'BRIEN: And let's help people understand, really no amount of ice is acceptable for takeoff. A slight, slight amount of ice can reduce the airflow properties of a wing and undermine performance such that it can't fly.
CONNERS: That's exactly correct. However, our investigation will be very thorough. We're going to review whether there was a fuel imbalance, engine failure, structural failure, whether there was a problem with the air-speed indicator, or some other aspects of the flight itself, as well as human factors. So while frost or ice may be a factor, we're going to look at every possibility to determine the probable cause.
M. O'BRIEN: The copilot survived. And as I understand it is not in a position to communicate with investigators. But others can attest to the fact that this particular aircraft was not deiced. Just help people understand whose decision that is prior to takeoff on whether a plane is deiced.
CONNERS: Well, the pilot is responsible for his aircraft. And so one of the aspects we're going to look at is whether the cockpit voice recorder gives us any information. But also we'll look at the past performance, the aspect of the structural integrity of the aircraft, the engines. Once again, this is where NTSB isn't quite "CSI." We don't get it done in 28 minutes. It's a little more Sherlock Holmes. We'll determine a thorough investigation, and it will take us about a year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: That was NTSB chairwoman Ellen Engleman Conners a little while ago.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, Sirius Satellite Radio thinks its latest deal is a slam dunk. Andy's "Minding Your Business" just ahead.
M. O'BRIEN: Plus could it be the end of polygraphs? Dr. Gupta tells us why the brain is the best lie detector of all. I thought it was the nose. Wasn't that -- that's children's -- stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: A test that probes the lying centers of your brain may be a better gauge of truthfulness than a polygraph.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at the CNN Center with details on this.
Hey, Sanjay, good morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
A really interesting study. A small study, though, looking at some of the biology of lying versus truth-telling, using a test called a functional MRI, stands for a functional magnetic resonance image. Really interesting stuff. A study coming out of Temple University, trying to figure out what changes in the brain when someone lies, and is that reproducible.
First of all, take a look at some of these images of the brain. If you spin this brain around, you'll get a sense of where some of the lying centers of the brain are. They're marked there for you -- the frontal lobe, limbic lobe, temporal lobe. Those are the areas of the brain that people believe change if someone lies. Now what they did was they basically did this study where they had people tell the truth and they had people lie and then they had measured their functional MRI while they were doing one of each, and take a look at these images. You'll get a sense of how the brain changes.
Kind of hard to tell there, to be honest with you, Soledad, but people who study this sort of thing, it's significant. But in the lying brain, you get significantly more activity in certain areas of the brain compared to the truthful brain. The thought behind this is that it takes more of the brain to actually lie. There's increased bloodflow in parts of the brain when someone's lying, versus truth telling. And that can be measured, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Then, Sanjay, would you expect that one day, instead of giving polygraph tests, they'll just hook people up to functional MRIs and be able to tell if they're lying that way?
GUPTA: Here's the thing. I don't know if they're quite there yet. But I think what we're starting to do is actually measure lying on the front end of things, meaning that at the actual basis that someone lies versus truth-telling, you can actually measure that.
What a polygraph does, and this is the reason it's not admissible in court, is that it actually measures the symptoms of lying. It measures increases in blood pressure, increases in heart rate, changes in skin responses. And those are all things that are sort of symptoms of lying, the way that the body reacts to a lie. But people are physiologically different, and that's why you can't trust these polygraphs 100 percent.
When you look at these functional MRI scans, you're taking it a step further back, you're looking at the very front end of lying, and perhaps one day functional MRIs may be used even in court cases, things like that, to determine if someone's lying, or they may be used in conjunction with polygraphs, who knows. But I really interesting sort of early study -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Sanjay Gupta for us. Sanjay, thanks.
A test that probes the lying centers of your game may be a better gauge of truthfulness than a polygraph. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at the CNN center with details on this. Good morning.
Good morning, Soledad. Really interesting study. A small study, though, looking at some of the biology of lying versus truth-telling. Using a test called a functional MRI. Stands for a functional magnetic resonance image. Really interesting stuff. Coming out of temple university, trying to figure out what changes in the brain when someone lies. And is that reproducible.
First of all, take a look at some of these images of the brain. If you spin this brain around you'll get a sense of where some of the lying centers of the brain are. The frontal lobe, limpic lobe, temporal lobe. Those are the areas of the brain that people believe change if someone lies. They basically did the study where they had people tell the truth and they had people lie and then they measured the functional MRI while they were doing one of each. Take a look at these images. You'll get a sense of how the brain changes. Kind of hard to tell there to be honest with you. But people who study this sort of thing, it's significant. But in the lying brain you get significantly more activity in certain areas of the brain compared to the truthful brain. The thought behind this is that it takes more of the brain to actually lie. There's increased blood flow in parts of the brain when someone's lying, versus truth telling. And that can be measured, Soledad.
Then, Sanjay, would you expect that one day, instead of giving polygraph tests, they'll just hook people up to functional MRIs and be able to tell if they're lying that way?
Here's the thing. I don't know if they're quite there yet. But I think what we're starting to do is actually measure lying on the front end of things. Meaning that at the actual basis that someone lies versus truth-telling, you can actually measure that. What a holly graph does. This is the reason it's not admissible in court is that it measures the symptoms of lying. It measures increases in blood pressure. Increases in heart rate. Changes in skin responses. And those are all things that are sort of symptoms of lying. The way that the body reacts to a lie. But people are physiologically different, and that's why you can't trust these polygraphs 100 percent. When you look at these functional MRI scans you're taking it a step further back. You're looking at the very front end of lying and perhaps one day functional MRIs may be used even in court cases, things like that to determine if someone's lying or they may be used in conjunction with polygraphs, who knows. But I really interesting sort of early study.
Sanjay Gupta for us, thanks.
GUPTA: Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: Do antibiotics used on animals make people more susceptible to disease? The government is looking at an antibiotic that's given to poultry, and pigs and cattle that's similar to one that's prescribed for humans. They want to know if people will be harder to treat after being exposed to resistant bacteria in the food chain -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Still to come in the program, are you serious about college hoops? Well, you might want to sign up for Sirius Satellite Radio.
Andy is "Minding Your Business." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: All right, time for us to get Sirius, or is it stern, whatever? Sirius Radio makes another big acquisition, and we'll tell you what's happening in the markets.
Andy Serwer here for all that.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: You cannot be serious. OK, that kind of didn't go over too well.
Let's talk about the market, first of all. Stocks, they're all over the place, but they're down about five right now, on the Dow that is, and we got that shot.
Let's talk about hot topic that's not so hot. You may remember, and that's the mall, the teen mall retailer that got all those goth, punky clothes. Well guess what? Goth, punky is not in anymore. Preppy is really in.
M. O'BRIEN: No? Preppy is back?
SERWER: Yes, yes it is. Eagle Outfitters, Abercrombie, all those kind of -- Ralph Lauren. So that stock is down about $2.50 to $16 this morning. Interesting story there.
Yes, Sirius Radio signs up another bit of programming. The NCAA basketball tournament now joins Howard Stern, joins the NBA, the NFL, joins Mel Karmazin. Here we go, it's the Dukies, the Dukies against UNC Greensboro. Gee, I wonder if they won that game? That was on Saturday night. In fact, they did, 98-44. A tough game for Duke tonight against Michigan State.
M. O'BRIEN: So Sirius and XM are just both gobbling up as much programming as they can?
SERWER: That's right, and they're signing up these, you know, huge contracts they're hoping to get profitable way down the road, looking to grab marketshare, but you know, that's a very tough strategy.
M. O'BRIEN: I should say. All right, thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome, Miles.
S. O'BRIEN: Question of the day.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Question of the Day, the U.N. Oil- for-food program, Kofi Annan's son has been connected to this thing. According to "The New York Sun" newspaper, young Annan has been taking money from a Swiss company that had a lucrative contract with the U.N. oil-for-food program after insisting that he had left that firm's employ back in 1998.
Anyway, we're asking in light of the burgeoning nature of this embarrassment, whether Kofi Annan should resign as head of the U.N.
Jeff in Seattle writes, "Everybody knows if the U.S. was able to get the second resolution for war passed, and France, Germany and Russia sent troops with the coalition of the willing, we wouldn't have heard a single peep about this oil-for-food scandal."
Dale in Buffalo, Texas, "He ought to resign. Saddam was the U.N.'s sugar daddy for years. American boys are dying today because the French, Germans, and the United Nations were sucking up to Saddam for his oil money. They would never have joined us in this war because that would have killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs."
And Larry writes from Kingston, North Carolina, "What are the requirements and how does one apply to this new organization that Jack Cafferty spoke of earlier this morning? He said it's to be called the pessimist club."
S. O'BRIEN: I don't know, Jack, what are the requirements, a little bitterness?
CAFFERTY: I just don't care.
M. O'BRIEN: That's the first thing, I just don't care.
S. O'BRIEN: Sleep deprivation.
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Grouchy.
CAFFERTY: I don't want to talk about it. It's not going to happen.
S. O'BRIEN: Whatever that is, that's good, too.
SERWER: I know where he can put that headquarters, over at the U.N., Jack Cafferty pessimist club.
CAFFERTY: They were suggesting a Jack Cafferty living library and museum.
SERWER: Slash pessimist organization.
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: Throw it all in there.
CAFFERTY: Either way, the real estate would be put to better use than it's currently being used.
SERWER: Put it all in the same spot.
S. O'BRIEN: The living library or the pessimist club, whatever.
CAFFERTY: Either one.
SERWER: Don't investigate anything.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Jack.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, coming up, U.S. border concerns usually focus on Mexico. What about the largely unprotected border with Canada? "CNN LIVE TODAY" will look at one of the big issues facing President Bush and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. That is in our next hour with Rick Sanchez and Daryn Kagan.
AMERICAN MORNING back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: OK, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it still might not be a duck. This is the Duck Calling Championship at the Annual Duck Festival in Stuttgart, Arkansas. I'm sure they don't pronounce it that way there. One lucky duck -- long way from Oktoberfest, he walked away with a $15,000 prize for the best simulated quacking. That's a big deal down there.
SERWER: That's some good stuff.
M. O'BRIEN: That is good stuff. I'm impressed.
O'BRIEN: Let's get to Aaron Brown. He's got a preview of what's coming up tonight on "NEWSNIGHT."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Soledad.
Tonight on NEWSNIGHT, as NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw prepares to pass the torch tomorrow night, our Jeff Greenfield looks at the larger meaning of this departure in the age of the Internet and cable, of reality television and TiVo, what does the future hold for the network news broadcast. Do they have much future at all? That story, plus all the day's top news, morning papers and everything else that makes "NEWSNIGHT" "NEWSNIGHT" CNN tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: Aaron, thank you very much. Let's take you right to Daryn Kagan and Rick Sanchez, because we're out of time here.
Thanks for helping us out today. Thanks to all of you guys.
M. O'BRIEN: You're done with the tie, right?
S. O'BRIEN: Stop with the tie. We're moving on. Daryn and Rick are at the CNN Center.
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Aired November 30, 2004 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We got these pictures just in to CNN. As you can see,the courtroom proceedings about to get under as Chai Vang, 36 years old and charged in six counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder. He's there, you see him to the right of your screen in the orange jumpsuit. This is his first court appearance. He's in Hayward, Wisconsin He is jailed on $2.5 million bail, and there are concerns for his security today, as the court proceedings begin in a very small community. We're going to continue to follow what happens with this case. He, of course, is charged in that deer hunter slaying that happened just days ago.
We're going to continue to follow this story, bring you up to speed on what happens there.
Meanwhile, it's 9:30 here on the East Coast. It's half past the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
New information about that plane crash involving NBC executive Dick Ebersol, which killed one of his sons. In just a few moments, we're going to hear from the NTSB chairwoman, talk about preflight safety measures that were left undone and whether that could have contributed to the crash.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also, finding a perfect recruiting tool in a V-8 engine. We'll talk to Joe Nemechek, who drives the "Go Army" car on the NASCAR circuit. They call him G.I. Joe, as well as commander in charge of recruiting. We'll find out why stock car racing is a natural, according to the military, when it comes to pitching the Armed Forces to young men and women.
Another check of the headlines this morning. Heidi Collins here for that.
Good morning, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys, and good morning to you, everyone.
President Bush en route to Canada at this hour for the first state visit by a U.S. president there in nearly 10 years. The president leaving Andrews Air Force Base about 20 minutes ago. President Bush will try to patch up relations with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. Ties between the two countries have soured over trade disputes and the war in Iraq.
CNN has just learned Vice President Dick Cheney will meet with 9/11 commission members today. The vice president expected to meet with commission panel chairs Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton to try and break the deadlock on intelligence reform legislation. Hamilton said if the bill is not wrapped up during the end of the lame duck session, Congress will have to start from scratch in January.
In California, the penalty phase of the Scott Peterson trial set to get under way in just under three hours from now. The same jurors who found Peterson guilty of murdering his wife and unborn son will now decide if he should spend the rest of his life in prison, or get the death penalty.
And finally a new study suggests stress can make you feel 10 years older. Researchers say stress wears down immune cells. The findings, based on a small study, could explain why people under intense long-term emotional strain get sick and grow old faster. The report is in the new issue of "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences." I'm getting that journal.
S. O'BRIEN: The one thing you knew was true, but you didn't know why it was true.
M. O'BRIEN: A new subscriber right there.
COLLINS: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, thanks very much.
Universities that don't allow military recruiters on campus can now do so without fear of losing federal funding. This from a federal appeals court in Philadelphia. The 2-1 ruling says the law that linked the recruiting visits to the flow of funds violates the First Amendment. Now the suit was filed by several law schools, but the ruling applies to all institutions of higher learning. The Justice Department has not announced any plans for an appeal just yet.
Those recruiters are under a lot of pressure to keep the ranks of the Armed Forces replenished, particularly now, and while the Bush administration categorically rules out the possibility of a draft, there is broad and deep support for drafting, NASCAR style. The Army of one is aiming to be No. 1 on the Nextel Cup circuit.
Here to talk about the partnership, NASCAR driver Joe Nemechek and Major General Michael Rochelle.
Good to have you both with us.
General, let's begin with you. I just want to talk about that report we just told folks about, making it more difficult, potentially, for recruiters to visit campuses. Is that a big hindrance?
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL ROCHELLE, U.S. ARMY: Well, it will obviously have an impact, Miles. I don't want to speculate on how much impact it will be, especially since the matter will be appearing before the Justice Department.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, we'll leave it at that.
G.I. Joe now, let's talk about you and the NASCAR Nextel circuit, and what it's like to be out there representing the Army. Do you think it's an effective recruiting tool? And do you have any way of knowing?
JOE NEMECHEK, NASCAR DRIVER: Well, I just know from all the men and women that I meet, new soldiers coming in, meet with them on a weekly basis, and these people are eager to serve our country. And they're my heroes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes? And did you ever think about modifying a Humvee?
NEMECHEK: I don't know how good A Humvee would get around that racetrack. You know, we're going really fast, speeds from 190, 200 miles an hour at some of the faster race tracks. And I'm having fun. You know, I'm really proud and honored to be driving this Army car and representing all the people involved in the program.
M. O'BRIEN: I guess the Humvee has some aerodynamic issues, you might say. General, give us a sense of where this idea came from and what your thoughts are on whether this is an effective way in order to try to recruit?
ROCHELLE: Well, let me start with my thoughts. First of all, let me tell you that Joe is a phenomenal spokesperson for men and women in uniform, soldiers in particular. And he does a fabulous job of representing both the technology, he represents the pride, the winning attitude, and the spirit, and soldiers love him.
You have to view NASCAR, first of all, as part of our overall integrated marketing strategy. It's part of our National Hot Rod Association affiliation, which began in 1991, and was directed by Congress. Congress directed the Army to explore motorsports. And collectively, with NASCAR, NHRA, as well as our outreach activity, that now bridges across the Professional Rodeo and Cowboy Association, professional bull riders, it's a very, very effective way to reach...
M. O'BRIEN: All right, now you have to bring in 100,000 new soldiers every year. That's a big goal. How much does it cost to do all of that recruiting? How much taxpayer money is involved here?
ROCHELLE: Well, let me refine my statement to address the advertising component of that. That's $225 million for fiscal year '05, down from $240 million, $245 million last year. Our NASCAR program represents roughly $16 million of that.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. And money well spent, do you think?
ROCHELLE: It's certainly money well spent.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Joe, final thought here, when you have a bad race, does the general tell you to drop and give you 20?
NEMECHEK: No, actually not. I'm more disappointed in myself. You know, our whole team is -- we take so much pride in having this Army car run well. It gives the men and women just a moment to take a break, and see that Army car out there racing, and it gives them something to be proud of, and I'm proud to be driving it, and we're planning on getting that thing in victory lane many more times.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, you going to outfit it with guns? That could help.
NEMECHEK: I tell you, that could help, but there could be some consequences.
M. O'BRIEN: Might be. Might be. All right, Joe Nemechek and Major General Michael Rochelle, thank you both for joining us. Good luck on the circuit, and drive safe, all right?
NEMECHEK: Thank you.
ROCHELLE: Thank you for having us, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Officials in Colorado believe they have found the body of dick Ebersol's 14-year-old son. Ebersol and two of his sons were onboard a small jet on Sunday when it crashed during takeoff. It happened nearly in the town of Montrose, nearly 200 miles southwest of Denver, and that is where Chris Lawrence is with the very latest on this.
Chris, good morning.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Once they recover the cockpit voice recorder, that was then transported back to Washington D.C. and the headquarters of the National Transportation Safety Board. Officials there tell us they could have some new information as early as today, possibly helping to explain what happened to this plane, and how those people died.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're 99.9 percent sure it's Teddy Ebersol. It matches his physical description, and he of course is the missing person.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): The body believed to be 14-year-old Teddy Ebersol was found after a search surrounding the area of the charred wreckage came empty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body located today was located under the aircraft. We used heavy equipment to lift the aircraft off him and remove his body.
LAWRENCE: The plane crashed Sunday while trying to take off during a snowstorm. The pilot and a flight attendant were also killed. NBC sports chairman Dick Ebersol, his oldest son and the copilot survived. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pilot and the flight attendant who are both deceased were ejected from the aircraft. Actually, as far as I know, the only person who was not ejected was Mr. Ebersol, and Charlie went back, and the 21-year-old went back and pulled his father out of the airplane.
LAWRENCE: It's still not clear if weather was a factor in the crash. The company that deices private planes at the airport did not deice Ebersol's plane before it took off. NTSB investigators are checking the cockpit voice recorder for clues.
ARNOLD SCOTT, NTSB LEAD INVESTIGATOR: What happened was when he taxied it, he called Denver Center, which is in long Longmont (ph), and got his IRF clearance to South Bend. My information is that Denver Center says advise us when you're ready for takeoff. He said we are ready for takeoff right now. That was the last communication they had with him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Now, when it comes to ice being a potential problem, that's still just a theory at this point. But when it comes to corporate planes, it's up to the pilot and his discretion whether to call for that deicing, and in this case, he did not -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Chris Lawrence in Montrose, Colorado for us this morning. Chris, thanks -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Earlier on the program, I spoke with NTSB chair Ellen Engleman Conners about the investigation and the dangers of not deicing the airplane.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELLEN ENGLEMAN CONNERS, NTSB CHAIRWOMAN: These are hard-winged aircraft, Meaning they're very susceptible to buildup of debris, frost or ice, and of course FAA regulations and pilot's handbook indicate that you must have a clear wing when you're taking off in these conditions. So that will be a focus of our investigation.
M. O'BRIEN: And let's help people understand, really no amount of ice is acceptable for takeoff. A slight, slight amount of ice can reduce the airflow properties of a wing and undermine performance such that it can't fly.
CONNERS: That's exactly correct. However, our investigation will be very thorough. We're going to review whether there was a fuel imbalance, engine failure, structural failure, whether there was a problem with the air-speed indicator, or some other aspects of the flight itself, as well as human factors. So while frost or ice may be a factor, we're going to look at every possibility to determine the probable cause.
M. O'BRIEN: The copilot survived. And as I understand it is not in a position to communicate with investigators. But others can attest to the fact that this particular aircraft was not deiced. Just help people understand whose decision that is prior to takeoff on whether a plane is deiced.
CONNERS: Well, the pilot is responsible for his aircraft. And so one of the aspects we're going to look at is whether the cockpit voice recorder gives us any information. But also we'll look at the past performance, the aspect of the structural integrity of the aircraft, the engines. Once again, this is where NTSB isn't quite "CSI." We don't get it done in 28 minutes. It's a little more Sherlock Holmes. We'll determine a thorough investigation, and it will take us about a year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: That was NTSB chairwoman Ellen Engleman Conners a little while ago.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, Sirius Satellite Radio thinks its latest deal is a slam dunk. Andy's "Minding Your Business" just ahead.
M. O'BRIEN: Plus could it be the end of polygraphs? Dr. Gupta tells us why the brain is the best lie detector of all. I thought it was the nose. Wasn't that -- that's children's -- stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: A test that probes the lying centers of your brain may be a better gauge of truthfulness than a polygraph.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at the CNN Center with details on this.
Hey, Sanjay, good morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
A really interesting study. A small study, though, looking at some of the biology of lying versus truth-telling, using a test called a functional MRI, stands for a functional magnetic resonance image. Really interesting stuff. A study coming out of Temple University, trying to figure out what changes in the brain when someone lies, and is that reproducible.
First of all, take a look at some of these images of the brain. If you spin this brain around, you'll get a sense of where some of the lying centers of the brain are. They're marked there for you -- the frontal lobe, limbic lobe, temporal lobe. Those are the areas of the brain that people believe change if someone lies. Now what they did was they basically did this study where they had people tell the truth and they had people lie and then they had measured their functional MRI while they were doing one of each, and take a look at these images. You'll get a sense of how the brain changes.
Kind of hard to tell there, to be honest with you, Soledad, but people who study this sort of thing, it's significant. But in the lying brain, you get significantly more activity in certain areas of the brain compared to the truthful brain. The thought behind this is that it takes more of the brain to actually lie. There's increased bloodflow in parts of the brain when someone's lying, versus truth telling. And that can be measured, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Then, Sanjay, would you expect that one day, instead of giving polygraph tests, they'll just hook people up to functional MRIs and be able to tell if they're lying that way?
GUPTA: Here's the thing. I don't know if they're quite there yet. But I think what we're starting to do is actually measure lying on the front end of things, meaning that at the actual basis that someone lies versus truth-telling, you can actually measure that.
What a polygraph does, and this is the reason it's not admissible in court, is that it actually measures the symptoms of lying. It measures increases in blood pressure, increases in heart rate, changes in skin responses. And those are all things that are sort of symptoms of lying, the way that the body reacts to a lie. But people are physiologically different, and that's why you can't trust these polygraphs 100 percent.
When you look at these functional MRI scans, you're taking it a step further back, you're looking at the very front end of lying, and perhaps one day functional MRIs may be used even in court cases, things like that, to determine if someone's lying, or they may be used in conjunction with polygraphs, who knows. But I really interesting sort of early study -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Sanjay Gupta for us. Sanjay, thanks.
A test that probes the lying centers of your game may be a better gauge of truthfulness than a polygraph. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at the CNN center with details on this. Good morning.
Good morning, Soledad. Really interesting study. A small study, though, looking at some of the biology of lying versus truth-telling. Using a test called a functional MRI. Stands for a functional magnetic resonance image. Really interesting stuff. Coming out of temple university, trying to figure out what changes in the brain when someone lies. And is that reproducible.
First of all, take a look at some of these images of the brain. If you spin this brain around you'll get a sense of where some of the lying centers of the brain are. The frontal lobe, limpic lobe, temporal lobe. Those are the areas of the brain that people believe change if someone lies. They basically did the study where they had people tell the truth and they had people lie and then they measured the functional MRI while they were doing one of each. Take a look at these images. You'll get a sense of how the brain changes. Kind of hard to tell there to be honest with you. But people who study this sort of thing, it's significant. But in the lying brain you get significantly more activity in certain areas of the brain compared to the truthful brain. The thought behind this is that it takes more of the brain to actually lie. There's increased blood flow in parts of the brain when someone's lying, versus truth telling. And that can be measured, Soledad.
Then, Sanjay, would you expect that one day, instead of giving polygraph tests, they'll just hook people up to functional MRIs and be able to tell if they're lying that way?
Here's the thing. I don't know if they're quite there yet. But I think what we're starting to do is actually measure lying on the front end of things. Meaning that at the actual basis that someone lies versus truth-telling, you can actually measure that. What a holly graph does. This is the reason it's not admissible in court is that it measures the symptoms of lying. It measures increases in blood pressure. Increases in heart rate. Changes in skin responses. And those are all things that are sort of symptoms of lying. The way that the body reacts to a lie. But people are physiologically different, and that's why you can't trust these polygraphs 100 percent. When you look at these functional MRI scans you're taking it a step further back. You're looking at the very front end of lying and perhaps one day functional MRIs may be used even in court cases, things like that to determine if someone's lying or they may be used in conjunction with polygraphs, who knows. But I really interesting sort of early study.
Sanjay Gupta for us, thanks.
GUPTA: Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: Do antibiotics used on animals make people more susceptible to disease? The government is looking at an antibiotic that's given to poultry, and pigs and cattle that's similar to one that's prescribed for humans. They want to know if people will be harder to treat after being exposed to resistant bacteria in the food chain -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Still to come in the program, are you serious about college hoops? Well, you might want to sign up for Sirius Satellite Radio.
Andy is "Minding Your Business." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: All right, time for us to get Sirius, or is it stern, whatever? Sirius Radio makes another big acquisition, and we'll tell you what's happening in the markets.
Andy Serwer here for all that.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: You cannot be serious. OK, that kind of didn't go over too well.
Let's talk about the market, first of all. Stocks, they're all over the place, but they're down about five right now, on the Dow that is, and we got that shot.
Let's talk about hot topic that's not so hot. You may remember, and that's the mall, the teen mall retailer that got all those goth, punky clothes. Well guess what? Goth, punky is not in anymore. Preppy is really in.
M. O'BRIEN: No? Preppy is back?
SERWER: Yes, yes it is. Eagle Outfitters, Abercrombie, all those kind of -- Ralph Lauren. So that stock is down about $2.50 to $16 this morning. Interesting story there.
Yes, Sirius Radio signs up another bit of programming. The NCAA basketball tournament now joins Howard Stern, joins the NBA, the NFL, joins Mel Karmazin. Here we go, it's the Dukies, the Dukies against UNC Greensboro. Gee, I wonder if they won that game? That was on Saturday night. In fact, they did, 98-44. A tough game for Duke tonight against Michigan State.
M. O'BRIEN: So Sirius and XM are just both gobbling up as much programming as they can?
SERWER: That's right, and they're signing up these, you know, huge contracts they're hoping to get profitable way down the road, looking to grab marketshare, but you know, that's a very tough strategy.
M. O'BRIEN: I should say. All right, thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome, Miles.
S. O'BRIEN: Question of the day.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Question of the Day, the U.N. Oil- for-food program, Kofi Annan's son has been connected to this thing. According to "The New York Sun" newspaper, young Annan has been taking money from a Swiss company that had a lucrative contract with the U.N. oil-for-food program after insisting that he had left that firm's employ back in 1998.
Anyway, we're asking in light of the burgeoning nature of this embarrassment, whether Kofi Annan should resign as head of the U.N.
Jeff in Seattle writes, "Everybody knows if the U.S. was able to get the second resolution for war passed, and France, Germany and Russia sent troops with the coalition of the willing, we wouldn't have heard a single peep about this oil-for-food scandal."
Dale in Buffalo, Texas, "He ought to resign. Saddam was the U.N.'s sugar daddy for years. American boys are dying today because the French, Germans, and the United Nations were sucking up to Saddam for his oil money. They would never have joined us in this war because that would have killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs."
And Larry writes from Kingston, North Carolina, "What are the requirements and how does one apply to this new organization that Jack Cafferty spoke of earlier this morning? He said it's to be called the pessimist club."
S. O'BRIEN: I don't know, Jack, what are the requirements, a little bitterness?
CAFFERTY: I just don't care.
M. O'BRIEN: That's the first thing, I just don't care.
S. O'BRIEN: Sleep deprivation.
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Grouchy.
CAFFERTY: I don't want to talk about it. It's not going to happen.
S. O'BRIEN: Whatever that is, that's good, too.
SERWER: I know where he can put that headquarters, over at the U.N., Jack Cafferty pessimist club.
CAFFERTY: They were suggesting a Jack Cafferty living library and museum.
SERWER: Slash pessimist organization.
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: Throw it all in there.
CAFFERTY: Either way, the real estate would be put to better use than it's currently being used.
SERWER: Put it all in the same spot.
S. O'BRIEN: The living library or the pessimist club, whatever.
CAFFERTY: Either one.
SERWER: Don't investigate anything.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Jack.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, coming up, U.S. border concerns usually focus on Mexico. What about the largely unprotected border with Canada? "CNN LIVE TODAY" will look at one of the big issues facing President Bush and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. That is in our next hour with Rick Sanchez and Daryn Kagan.
AMERICAN MORNING back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: OK, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it still might not be a duck. This is the Duck Calling Championship at the Annual Duck Festival in Stuttgart, Arkansas. I'm sure they don't pronounce it that way there. One lucky duck -- long way from Oktoberfest, he walked away with a $15,000 prize for the best simulated quacking. That's a big deal down there.
SERWER: That's some good stuff.
M. O'BRIEN: That is good stuff. I'm impressed.
O'BRIEN: Let's get to Aaron Brown. He's got a preview of what's coming up tonight on "NEWSNIGHT."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Soledad.
Tonight on NEWSNIGHT, as NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw prepares to pass the torch tomorrow night, our Jeff Greenfield looks at the larger meaning of this departure in the age of the Internet and cable, of reality television and TiVo, what does the future hold for the network news broadcast. Do they have much future at all? That story, plus all the day's top news, morning papers and everything else that makes "NEWSNIGHT" "NEWSNIGHT" CNN tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: Aaron, thank you very much. Let's take you right to Daryn Kagan and Rick Sanchez, because we're out of time here.
Thanks for helping us out today. Thanks to all of you guys.
M. O'BRIEN: You're done with the tie, right?
S. O'BRIEN: Stop with the tie. We're moving on. Daryn and Rick are at the CNN Center.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
