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American Morning
President Bush's Trip to Canada; Drug/Alcohol Issues; 100 Greatest Moments in Science
Aired November 30, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
We're going to take a look at a case that has outraged a Massachusetts town. Take a look at this videotape. Two emergency dispatchers got a little carried away working on the overnight shift. They were drinking and dancing, apparently even taking drugs. They thought nobody would know, but were wrong. Now we all know, and that's thanks to the hidden camera. We've got the story behind that videotape coming up.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, maybe the hidden camera is one of the 100 great discoveries of all time. Who knows? We'll ask Bill Nye, The Science Guy. He's telling us about these 100 great discoveries on the Discovery Science Channel. And whether you like it or not, these discoveries changed your life. We'll tell you how.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got to imagine those really big important ones are sort of the fun, sexy ones.
M. O'BRIEN: I guess, yes. I don't know. It's -- I don't know.
S. O'BRIEN: Like, didn't the second law of thermal dynamics make the list?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that's pretty exciting. Exciting stuff.
S. O'BRIEN: All righty. But it's important, right?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's big. It's big.
S. O'BRIEN: But dull.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Headlines now, Heidi Collins. Good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys. And good morning to you, everybody.
"Now in the News."
The International Red Cross says the way detainees are interrogated at Guantanamo is -- quote -- "tantamount to torture." Details of the alleged abuses, along with the strong Pentagon denials, are revealed in today's "The New York Times." The paper's quotes come from a memo, not the actual report. The International Red Cross only shares its findings with the government that is detaining people.
Authority in Colorado believe they have found the body of NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol's 14-year-old son. The body was found last night beneath the wreckage of a crashed jet. A total of three people were killed in Sunday's crash. Ebersol and his older son survived.
The jurors in the Scott Peterson trial go back to work today. The California Supreme court yesterday denied a petition by Peterson's defense asking for a new jury and a change of venue. Jurors will now decide whether to sentence Peterson to life in prison or the death penalty for the murder of his wife and unborn child. Proceedings are set to get under way at noon Eastern Time.
And we showed you this about 10 minutes ago. Rescuers teams right now in Georgia, trying to free a construction worker from a collapsed trench. About 50 workers have been working through the night in Camden, Georgia, trying to free this man. Water seeping into the trench has apparently delayed those efforts. Coming to us from WAGA.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, he was trapped in an air pocket, which I guess is what would be saving his life at this time. He's trapped up to his head.
COLLINS: Absolutely. We're going to keep an eye on it and bring it to you. We'll know more later.
M. O'BRIEN: Keep pushing. All right, thanks.
In about 90 minutes' time, President Bush is expected to leave for a two-day visit to Canada, his first -- the first state visit there by a U.S. president in over a decade. Terrorism is among the topics that the president and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin expected to discuss.
Elaine Quijano at the White House now with more.
Good morning -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Miles.
This will be President Bush's first state trip since his re- election, a signal that he wants to reach out to Canadians and move past the divisiveness of the Iraq war.
Now, the last time the president met with the Canadian prime minister, Paul Martin, was less than two weeks ago in Chile, but the two men, of course, have had several meetings before that, including here at the White House.
Now, in Canada, there are still sore feelings that linger over the Iraq invasion. Canada did not commit troops to that effort.
Security, of course, as always, surrounding the president's trip is tight. Officials are expecting protests, reflecting the anti-war sentiment in that country. The situation in Iraq, of course, is likely to come up on the agenda, and a number of other agenda items as well. They include border security, also trade disputes, and the war on terrorism.
Now, on that final point, the war on terrorism, President Bush tomorrow will be making a visit to the area of Halifax. Now, most Americans may not realize this, but in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks, when many flights were grounded and diverted, many Americans -- thousands of them, in fact -- found themselves stranded in that particular area. Canadians there opened up their homes, allowed Americans to stay there.
President Bush will be traveling to that area to draw attention to that tomorrow, to thank them for their efforts, to also talk about the larger war on terrorism. And, Miles, both Canadian and U.S. officials are hoping that this will be the beginning of a new period, a chance to move past the divisiveness of the Iraq war -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Elaine Quijano at the White House, thank you -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Well, the holidays give us plenty of reason to celebrate, but for those who are recovering from alcohol or drug abuse, they have to proceed with caution. The period from Thanksgiving to Christmas to New Year's is known as the Bermuda Triangle, a potential relapse.
John Walters is the White House drug czar. He joins us this morning to talk about some of the dangers.
The holidays, obviously, are stressful for everybody. But what is it specifically that makes a relapse possible for those who have been sober for years?
JOHN WALTERS, DIR., W.H. OFFICE OF NATL. DRUG CONTROL POLICY: Well, the good news is we have millions of people in recovery, but we need to make sure that we support that recovery. The holidays become an occasion where patterns of behavior that can cause stress that can lead to consumption of alcohol or other addictive substances can re- emerge. Pressures can be put on people that can lead them to a situation where reaching for alcohol or drugs can be a problem.
So, I think it's important, particularly for people who are in recovery for a shorter period of time, that families take simple measures and, you know, be sensitive about exposing people to these substances, welcome discussions.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got some tips. And let's run through them, in fact. And the first one is, as you just said, don't expose the person to alcohol or substances. That one is sort of obvious, I think. Allow open discussion on sobriety. Invite a recovering peer to family gatherings. I think sometimes families think they're being more respectful if they don't bring up the little problem that that person has. Why is that not the advice you would give?
WALTERS: Because substance abuse is not a personal issue. It becomes something that's destructive to others. And many people as part of their recovery rely on a friend or a peer. If you invite that person, they need discuss this. There's usually a lot of damage that's done around substance abuse. But it's not something that's frequently secretive. It's something that people have known about. They've been hurt. You have to repair those things, and you have to face them in order to repair them.
So, part of the process of healing is that families come together and come to an understanding. And that can be an enormously powerful healing tool.
S. O'BRIEN: Also, your tip, avoiding a relapse, attend recovery functions with a person, and don't pressure them into the holiday spirit. Do you think it's ever good advice to, you know, just how about just skipping all of the holiday events, you know, over the Bermuda Triangle?
WALTERS: I think what we want to do is to reintegrate people into a family that doesn't require substance abuse and hurt. And so I don't think you want to avoid important holidays, important holidays and events in people's lives. What you have to do is remove those structures from the self-destructive behavior.
And that's what can be done here. And when it's done, you know, it's some of the most gratifying miracles of change that you can imagine when you talk to people who have had families destroyed and build them back together strongly. They need to lean on other people, and they need to be allowed to allow the healing, because it really is a healing that involves family and friends.
S. O'BRIEN: Numbers from the government say that the drug use among younger people is on the decline. Why do you think that's so?
WALTERS: I think that many people are working very hard here. It's not one thing. We've got help from the media messaging to young people. We are building community coalitions. We have a greater willingness to talk about responsibility. We've had some great success in law enforcement. Part of the tools we've had for terror have allowed us to go after some of the drug trafficking and made it harder. The work in Columbia, where the president just was, with President Uribe, have helped to reduce the availability. And we hope to be able to drive those through.
It's a supply/demand problem. We have a balanced strategy. We're also trying to treat people that have addiction, because they are the large-volume consumers.
Again, the millions of people who are in recovery are hope. We need to build on what we know works. And we can show when we push back, this problem gets smaller. We need to use our knowledge effectively and aggressively.
S. O'BRIEN: Only a few seconds to ask you about medical marijuana. The case, as you well know, before the Supreme Court centers on a woman who has got chronic pain, who has an inoperable brain tumor. Do you think she should be allowed to smoke marijuana that her doctors prescribe for her for her pain?
WALTERS: Well, actually, first of all, it's not appropriate for me as a government official of the executive branch to comment on pending cases before the Supreme Court.
I can say on the issue of marijuana, it's the most widely-abused drug in the United States among illegal drugs. More children seek treatment for marijuana than all other illegal drugs combined. It's two-thirds of the treatment needed for illegal drugs in the country.
To smoke marijuana is not medicine, and this is not about the AMA asking for the access to a medicine. I think if you look on the Web site kids know, this is about people who want to legalize drugs and use our compassion. Nobody wants people to suffer. But we have a responsibility to tell the truth here.
And I think the broader issue of the campaign and the referendum and so forth are for young people about whether adults are going to play dumb, whether they're going to not see this for what it is in the states where these referenda have been pushed.
S. O'BRIEN: I can't tell if you're commenting on it or not commenting on it.
WALTERS: Well, I...
S. O'BRIEN: But this particular woman in this case, and it sounds like you're commenting on it.
WALTERS: I can't comment on the particular case. But I will tell you that in dealing with the issue substance abuse, presenting people as victims because they want to advance themselves as marijuana users is something that is the most divisive thing on the horizon. We want consensus. We want to send a clear and consistent message of what's dangerous and what's not.
This is an effort to say we're not -- nobody in the government is bigoted. We try to have drugs that are safe and effective, that allow people. We don't think -- and the government of the United States is the single biggest funder of research into extracting parts of marijuana...
S. O'BRIEN: But if a doctor has said -- I mean, I see what you're saying. But if a doctor has said -- we're assuming that this woman who is smoking pot or others like her -- if you're not going to talk specifically about this case -- are not getting high. They're trying to relieve terrible and horrible chronic pain that no one seems to be disputing in these specific cases. Are you saying that that's sort of a sidebar? You know, they're being used by people who want to legalize marijuana?
WALTERS: We, I'd say if you look at the overall situation, it's not complicated. This is -- while there are people who take these drugs and feel better. Of course, people smoke cigarettes and feel better. People take crack and feel better. That's not medicine. We have safety of standards and efficacy. Smoked marijuana hasn't met that standard. There is a synthetic of marijuana that's available. Again, we are doing the most extensive research on extracting other parts of it.
But we have a standard of safety and efficacy. The medical community is not saying this is safe and efficacious. They know what the science is. They know what the rigor is. They know that medicine has to be something that people get real benefit from. We don't just take people who are sick and make them stoned.
S. O'BRIEN: But you definitely take people who are sick and give them drugs to just relieve the pain if they're going to die anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
WALTERS: And we try to modulate the...
S. O'BRIEN: ... she's going to die.
WALTERS: And, again, the issue isn't that people don't feel better. Feel better is the standard for snake oil. Medicine is safe and efficacious. And the issue here is if we have standards of safety and efficacy that make people better that moderate, we just don't just take people who have pain and dope them up.
S. O'BRIEN: But doctors actually...
WALTERS: We try to allow people to function...
S. O'BRIEN: But doctors actually do this.
WALTERS: Yes, and we use substances that can be somewhat dangerous in a regime that balances risk and effectiveness. There are many substances that are available, very powerful and beneficial painkillers that are helpful. There are very powerful drugs that help limit nausea and other conditions that medical marijuana is frequently referred to.
But the fact of the matter is the medical marijuana movement, the funding of these ballot initiatives, the funding of advertisements, the encouragement of use, has had a systematic effort to legalize drugs. That's what that's about.
We have a pattern. We have the safest, we have the finest medical treatment, the safest medicine ever in the history of mankind. And we can and we will continue to try to find additional components of other substances that can be brought beneficially.
The fact of the matter is, while there are people who believe sincerely on one side of this issue, I'm not denying that. But that those of us who have responsibility for saying what this is the law and the standard of science, allow us to stay safe and efficacious. Can't say that about smoking marijuana. We don't smoke weed in modern medicine.
S. O'BRIEN: We will see what the Supreme Court has to say on it at the end of the day. Mr. Walters, it's nice to have you. Thanks for coming in to talk to us. We appreciate it.
WALTERS: My pleasure.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's check the weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, Vioxx could spell doom for Merck. That may actually be a good thing for some Merck executives. We'll explain that with Andy Sewer.
S. O'BRIEN: And also, Bill Nye, The Science Guy, reveals some of the 100 greatest discoveries of all time. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: Well, from Newton and the apple to Einstein's famous formula. You know it, E equals MC squared, that one, right? A new Science Channel series looks at the 100 greatest discoveries of all time, how they have changed your world. And you can buy the CD. No, it's not actually that way.
Here's a sample.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In choosing the 100 greatest discoveries in the history of science, none has the potential to be more controversial than those concerning the origin of life. Earth is an exquisite island.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were not expecting what we found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: The eight-part series premiers December 8. And who better to talk about great moments in science than the series' host, Bill Nye, the Discovery Science Guy, joining us from Washington.
Always a pleasure to see you, sir.
BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY, "100 GREATEST DISCOVERIES": Good to see you, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's tick off all 100 right now. No, let's not do that. What are your first couple of favorites in the discovery realm? We showed briefly there the famous asteroid, the KT impact, which wiped out the dinosaurs. That's a biggie, and that happened only within the past 20 years.
NYE: Yes, the last 20 years. You mean, the discovery in the last 20 years.
M. O'BRIEN: The discovery, no, no, no.
NYE: Yes, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: That's been 65 million since the thing hit, yes.
NYE: I'll let you stand on this, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: We need to clarify that one.
NYE: And by the way, that was an artist rendering. You know, we don't have footage of that. There was no camera in space back then.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, we don't? We were looking in the library for that and the footage we have of the Big Bang. We didn't come up with anything, yes.
NYE: I know you go back.
M. O'BRIEN: Nothing, nothing.
NYE: The thing is that all of these things have affected everybody, all of these discoveries. You know, everything that you can touch and see, as I like to say, in almost every environment that we humans spend time in, including the plants in your office. They were all put there by people, people who understood science.
And science is a process. It's a way of learning about the universe. And these are some of the 100 great discoveries in that process.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Now, going through the list, I was wondering what the criteria was. I was looking for, you know, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich and the paper clip.
NYE: Those would be more inventions than discovery.
M. O'BRIEN: And instead, it's serious science, right?
NYE: Yes. Those would be more inventions than discoveries. So, evolution to me would be quite a discovery. That the Earth is a ball going around the sun would be quite a discovery. That comets have regular orbits. These are astonishing discoveries.
And I had heard Soledad refer to the second law of thermodynamics. Soledad, what's sexier than that? Every...
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: It goes on and on and on. Actually, what's sexier than that? But I realized, I get that it's a very critical discovery.
NYE: Well, any car engine and all of the electricity that's running your television right now is made on account of our intimate understanding of thermodynamics.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. But here's the question, and you referred to it just a few moments ago. You're trying to do this on television, Bill. And there isn't a lot of file tape to really explain all of this. How did you pull this off?
NYE: Well, you know, the Discovery people -- this is the Science Channel, which is part of the Discovery family. And they're hot on the re-creations. So, we have some re-creators. We have some actors here and there.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh.
NYE: And there are a lot of documents. We went to some cool libraries and museums and saw some old, remarkable documents, original notebooks from chemists and stuff, the original footage of the first deep sea events. That's Bob Bower (ph) there talking about that discovery, because it indicated that you don't actually need sunlight all day to have living things...
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that...
NYE: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that suddenly makes the universe potentially an abode for life in ways we hadn't imagined before.
NYE: Oh, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Now, you are a guy that knows a lot of stuff. We all know that. In the course of researching this, what was the one thing that you recall or a couple of things you recall learning that you didn't know before?
NYE: I guess I had an idea that quantum mechanics was important and was pretty well understood. But now, I'm in love with quantum mechanics. It's the most fabulous thing. You know, molecules have wave properties, for crying out loud. You know, it's remarkable. And you get a sense, as far as we may think we may have come as modern humans doing all of our fabulous things, talking to each other on television, you get a sense maybe of how little we know.
You know, the universe isn't just expanding, it's accelerating, because there's dark energy or dark matter or something that we just don't understand. And maybe a century from now or a few decades from now, people will look back at us and go, ha, ha, ha, ha, they didn't even know where dark energy came from. Yet, they went to work every day. My, god, who are those people?
M. O'BRIEN: How did they do it? How did they get by?
NYE: How did they live back then? And you look at the medical discoveries. I mean, people didn't believe in germs 150 years ago. I mean, they didn't believe in terms by the stars. I mean, that is quite a thing not to believe in.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. All right. Excellent. Bill Nye, The Science Guy. And this is on Discovery. When does it start?
NYE: It's on the Science Channel.
M. O'BRIEN: The Science Channel.
NYE: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: It's part of the Discovery family.
NYE: Well said. It starts a week from tomorrow, December 8. And as we say, turn it up loud. Thanks for your time, you guys.
M. O'BRIEN: Set your TiVos, turn it up loud. Bill Nye, always a pleasure. All right.
S. O'BRIEN: I changed my mind.
M. O'BRIEN: See!
S. O'BRIEN: The second law of thermodynamics suddenly is sexy.
M. O'BRIEN: He brought a smile to your face...
S. O'BRIEN: Always, always.
M. O'BRIEN: ... over the second law of thermodynamics.
S. O'BRIEN: Hey, I like that stuff, too.
M. O'BRIEN: That is a guy who can communicate science.
S. O'BRIEN: He always brings a smile to my face. He loves science, and I love him.
Next, Andy is "Minding Your Business." Coming up in the next hour, we're going to bring you a story we've been promising you about those 9/11 operators -- 911 operators, rather, partying on the job. Our interview with the president's drug czar lasted a little longer than we expected, so we'll bring it right to you in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: No surprise that Merck's stock is sinking. What's the company doing to stop the executives from jumping ship? A look at that, Andy Serwer, who's "Minding Your Business."
I like all of those metaphors, sinking ship, jumping ship.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes. Yes, and I've got another one: golden parachutes opening up over Merck.
S. O'BRIEN: Ah!
SERWER: This one is going to raise some eyebrows on Wall Street this morning,. Soledad. People are not going to like this story. Merck revealing in government filings yesterday that it would grant its 200 top executives compensation packages worth as much as three times their annual salary and bonus if the company is taken over and these said executives are terminated.
The reason why people would be concerned about this, of course, is because the company has come under a tremendous amount of fire because of the Vioxx situation, the blockbuster drug they pulled on September 30. The stock has plummeted forty percent since then, making it possible that the company would get taken over.
Now, people on Wall Street would think perhaps that this would be rewarding. Look at that stock chart. That is not a pretty stock chart. And so, people might think that, well, wouldn't this be rewarding the executives for poor performance? And I think that's a very good question. Wouldn't it be rewarding? You could draw that conclusion.
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: But if they all leave, they can't sell the company.
SERWER: Yes, that's right. That's true. So there is that.
But anyway, the company continues to make headlines, and not necessarily in a positive fashion all of the time.
S. O'BRIEN: All right.
SERWER: I think that's safe to say.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Andy, thanks.
SERWER: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Jack has got some e-mails.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: The U.N. oil-for-food program, Miles, a scandal of monumental proportions it seems. The latest revelation courtesy of the New York "Sun" newspaper, who reported the son of the secretary-general of the U.N., Kojo Annan, has been getting payments for five years from an outfit called Cotecna, a Swiss company that held a lucrative contract under the oil-for-food program.
The secretary-general, Kofi Annan, said yesterday that he was surprised and disappointed about the revelations about his son, admitted that the payments create a perception of conflict of interest and wrongdoing. Yes, you might say that.
The U.N. oil-for-food program is the subject of several investigations, allegations of kickbacks to France, kickbacks to Russia, kickbacks to Saddam Hussein.
With the idea that the buck stops at the top, the question is this: Is it time for Kofi Annan to bid adieu to the U.N., as in take it on the Arthur? James in Eugene, Oregon, writes: "Not only should he resign, the U.N. should be disbanded. They have proved how worthless U.N. sanctions are and what a joke the United Nations is."
Lee in Kent, Ohio, writes: "Kofi Annan should resign from his post and a new person should head up the U.N. Since the U.S. supplies the bulk of the U.N.'s funds, even though they only represent a small fraction of the world's population, it only would seem natural that we should be getting what we pay for. An American should be running the U.N."
I'd vote for that.
Corey in Bowling Green, Kentucky: "This is ridiculous. If Kofi Annan were to resign due to his son's actions, then should not the same be expected of other leaders?
And Brenda writes from Townsend, Georgia. I referred to the scandals as growing like mold in a Petri dish. She says, "Like mold in a Petri dish, man, I wish I came up with stuff like that. What structure? I can almost visualize our society's moral decay. How about, like, plaque building on unbrushed teeth? How about, like, mildew growing on a stinky dishrag? Like head lice? Hey, I can do this. Thanks, Jack."
SERWER: Stop!
S. O'BRIEN: Great. Thanks, Jack, while everyone enjoys their breakfast...
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: ... this morning.
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Brenda.
M. O'BRIEN: So much for the pancakes.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: Yes, that's too much.
S. O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is ahead.
In a moment, today's top stories, including the latest on the stalled 9/11 reform bill. Why is the president feeling the heat from both sides of the aisle? A live report from Capitol Hill is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired November 30, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
We're going to take a look at a case that has outraged a Massachusetts town. Take a look at this videotape. Two emergency dispatchers got a little carried away working on the overnight shift. They were drinking and dancing, apparently even taking drugs. They thought nobody would know, but were wrong. Now we all know, and that's thanks to the hidden camera. We've got the story behind that videotape coming up.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, maybe the hidden camera is one of the 100 great discoveries of all time. Who knows? We'll ask Bill Nye, The Science Guy. He's telling us about these 100 great discoveries on the Discovery Science Channel. And whether you like it or not, these discoveries changed your life. We'll tell you how.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got to imagine those really big important ones are sort of the fun, sexy ones.
M. O'BRIEN: I guess, yes. I don't know. It's -- I don't know.
S. O'BRIEN: Like, didn't the second law of thermal dynamics make the list?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that's pretty exciting. Exciting stuff.
S. O'BRIEN: All righty. But it's important, right?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's big. It's big.
S. O'BRIEN: But dull.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Headlines now, Heidi Collins. Good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys. And good morning to you, everybody.
"Now in the News."
The International Red Cross says the way detainees are interrogated at Guantanamo is -- quote -- "tantamount to torture." Details of the alleged abuses, along with the strong Pentagon denials, are revealed in today's "The New York Times." The paper's quotes come from a memo, not the actual report. The International Red Cross only shares its findings with the government that is detaining people.
Authority in Colorado believe they have found the body of NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol's 14-year-old son. The body was found last night beneath the wreckage of a crashed jet. A total of three people were killed in Sunday's crash. Ebersol and his older son survived.
The jurors in the Scott Peterson trial go back to work today. The California Supreme court yesterday denied a petition by Peterson's defense asking for a new jury and a change of venue. Jurors will now decide whether to sentence Peterson to life in prison or the death penalty for the murder of his wife and unborn child. Proceedings are set to get under way at noon Eastern Time.
And we showed you this about 10 minutes ago. Rescuers teams right now in Georgia, trying to free a construction worker from a collapsed trench. About 50 workers have been working through the night in Camden, Georgia, trying to free this man. Water seeping into the trench has apparently delayed those efforts. Coming to us from WAGA.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, he was trapped in an air pocket, which I guess is what would be saving his life at this time. He's trapped up to his head.
COLLINS: Absolutely. We're going to keep an eye on it and bring it to you. We'll know more later.
M. O'BRIEN: Keep pushing. All right, thanks.
In about 90 minutes' time, President Bush is expected to leave for a two-day visit to Canada, his first -- the first state visit there by a U.S. president in over a decade. Terrorism is among the topics that the president and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin expected to discuss.
Elaine Quijano at the White House now with more.
Good morning -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Miles.
This will be President Bush's first state trip since his re- election, a signal that he wants to reach out to Canadians and move past the divisiveness of the Iraq war.
Now, the last time the president met with the Canadian prime minister, Paul Martin, was less than two weeks ago in Chile, but the two men, of course, have had several meetings before that, including here at the White House.
Now, in Canada, there are still sore feelings that linger over the Iraq invasion. Canada did not commit troops to that effort.
Security, of course, as always, surrounding the president's trip is tight. Officials are expecting protests, reflecting the anti-war sentiment in that country. The situation in Iraq, of course, is likely to come up on the agenda, and a number of other agenda items as well. They include border security, also trade disputes, and the war on terrorism.
Now, on that final point, the war on terrorism, President Bush tomorrow will be making a visit to the area of Halifax. Now, most Americans may not realize this, but in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks, when many flights were grounded and diverted, many Americans -- thousands of them, in fact -- found themselves stranded in that particular area. Canadians there opened up their homes, allowed Americans to stay there.
President Bush will be traveling to that area to draw attention to that tomorrow, to thank them for their efforts, to also talk about the larger war on terrorism. And, Miles, both Canadian and U.S. officials are hoping that this will be the beginning of a new period, a chance to move past the divisiveness of the Iraq war -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Elaine Quijano at the White House, thank you -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Well, the holidays give us plenty of reason to celebrate, but for those who are recovering from alcohol or drug abuse, they have to proceed with caution. The period from Thanksgiving to Christmas to New Year's is known as the Bermuda Triangle, a potential relapse.
John Walters is the White House drug czar. He joins us this morning to talk about some of the dangers.
The holidays, obviously, are stressful for everybody. But what is it specifically that makes a relapse possible for those who have been sober for years?
JOHN WALTERS, DIR., W.H. OFFICE OF NATL. DRUG CONTROL POLICY: Well, the good news is we have millions of people in recovery, but we need to make sure that we support that recovery. The holidays become an occasion where patterns of behavior that can cause stress that can lead to consumption of alcohol or other addictive substances can re- emerge. Pressures can be put on people that can lead them to a situation where reaching for alcohol or drugs can be a problem.
So, I think it's important, particularly for people who are in recovery for a shorter period of time, that families take simple measures and, you know, be sensitive about exposing people to these substances, welcome discussions.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got some tips. And let's run through them, in fact. And the first one is, as you just said, don't expose the person to alcohol or substances. That one is sort of obvious, I think. Allow open discussion on sobriety. Invite a recovering peer to family gatherings. I think sometimes families think they're being more respectful if they don't bring up the little problem that that person has. Why is that not the advice you would give?
WALTERS: Because substance abuse is not a personal issue. It becomes something that's destructive to others. And many people as part of their recovery rely on a friend or a peer. If you invite that person, they need discuss this. There's usually a lot of damage that's done around substance abuse. But it's not something that's frequently secretive. It's something that people have known about. They've been hurt. You have to repair those things, and you have to face them in order to repair them.
So, part of the process of healing is that families come together and come to an understanding. And that can be an enormously powerful healing tool.
S. O'BRIEN: Also, your tip, avoiding a relapse, attend recovery functions with a person, and don't pressure them into the holiday spirit. Do you think it's ever good advice to, you know, just how about just skipping all of the holiday events, you know, over the Bermuda Triangle?
WALTERS: I think what we want to do is to reintegrate people into a family that doesn't require substance abuse and hurt. And so I don't think you want to avoid important holidays, important holidays and events in people's lives. What you have to do is remove those structures from the self-destructive behavior.
And that's what can be done here. And when it's done, you know, it's some of the most gratifying miracles of change that you can imagine when you talk to people who have had families destroyed and build them back together strongly. They need to lean on other people, and they need to be allowed to allow the healing, because it really is a healing that involves family and friends.
S. O'BRIEN: Numbers from the government say that the drug use among younger people is on the decline. Why do you think that's so?
WALTERS: I think that many people are working very hard here. It's not one thing. We've got help from the media messaging to young people. We are building community coalitions. We have a greater willingness to talk about responsibility. We've had some great success in law enforcement. Part of the tools we've had for terror have allowed us to go after some of the drug trafficking and made it harder. The work in Columbia, where the president just was, with President Uribe, have helped to reduce the availability. And we hope to be able to drive those through.
It's a supply/demand problem. We have a balanced strategy. We're also trying to treat people that have addiction, because they are the large-volume consumers.
Again, the millions of people who are in recovery are hope. We need to build on what we know works. And we can show when we push back, this problem gets smaller. We need to use our knowledge effectively and aggressively.
S. O'BRIEN: Only a few seconds to ask you about medical marijuana. The case, as you well know, before the Supreme Court centers on a woman who has got chronic pain, who has an inoperable brain tumor. Do you think she should be allowed to smoke marijuana that her doctors prescribe for her for her pain?
WALTERS: Well, actually, first of all, it's not appropriate for me as a government official of the executive branch to comment on pending cases before the Supreme Court.
I can say on the issue of marijuana, it's the most widely-abused drug in the United States among illegal drugs. More children seek treatment for marijuana than all other illegal drugs combined. It's two-thirds of the treatment needed for illegal drugs in the country.
To smoke marijuana is not medicine, and this is not about the AMA asking for the access to a medicine. I think if you look on the Web site kids know, this is about people who want to legalize drugs and use our compassion. Nobody wants people to suffer. But we have a responsibility to tell the truth here.
And I think the broader issue of the campaign and the referendum and so forth are for young people about whether adults are going to play dumb, whether they're going to not see this for what it is in the states where these referenda have been pushed.
S. O'BRIEN: I can't tell if you're commenting on it or not commenting on it.
WALTERS: Well, I...
S. O'BRIEN: But this particular woman in this case, and it sounds like you're commenting on it.
WALTERS: I can't comment on the particular case. But I will tell you that in dealing with the issue substance abuse, presenting people as victims because they want to advance themselves as marijuana users is something that is the most divisive thing on the horizon. We want consensus. We want to send a clear and consistent message of what's dangerous and what's not.
This is an effort to say we're not -- nobody in the government is bigoted. We try to have drugs that are safe and effective, that allow people. We don't think -- and the government of the United States is the single biggest funder of research into extracting parts of marijuana...
S. O'BRIEN: But if a doctor has said -- I mean, I see what you're saying. But if a doctor has said -- we're assuming that this woman who is smoking pot or others like her -- if you're not going to talk specifically about this case -- are not getting high. They're trying to relieve terrible and horrible chronic pain that no one seems to be disputing in these specific cases. Are you saying that that's sort of a sidebar? You know, they're being used by people who want to legalize marijuana?
WALTERS: We, I'd say if you look at the overall situation, it's not complicated. This is -- while there are people who take these drugs and feel better. Of course, people smoke cigarettes and feel better. People take crack and feel better. That's not medicine. We have safety of standards and efficacy. Smoked marijuana hasn't met that standard. There is a synthetic of marijuana that's available. Again, we are doing the most extensive research on extracting other parts of it.
But we have a standard of safety and efficacy. The medical community is not saying this is safe and efficacious. They know what the science is. They know what the rigor is. They know that medicine has to be something that people get real benefit from. We don't just take people who are sick and make them stoned.
S. O'BRIEN: But you definitely take people who are sick and give them drugs to just relieve the pain if they're going to die anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
WALTERS: And we try to modulate the...
S. O'BRIEN: ... she's going to die.
WALTERS: And, again, the issue isn't that people don't feel better. Feel better is the standard for snake oil. Medicine is safe and efficacious. And the issue here is if we have standards of safety and efficacy that make people better that moderate, we just don't just take people who have pain and dope them up.
S. O'BRIEN: But doctors actually...
WALTERS: We try to allow people to function...
S. O'BRIEN: But doctors actually do this.
WALTERS: Yes, and we use substances that can be somewhat dangerous in a regime that balances risk and effectiveness. There are many substances that are available, very powerful and beneficial painkillers that are helpful. There are very powerful drugs that help limit nausea and other conditions that medical marijuana is frequently referred to.
But the fact of the matter is the medical marijuana movement, the funding of these ballot initiatives, the funding of advertisements, the encouragement of use, has had a systematic effort to legalize drugs. That's what that's about.
We have a pattern. We have the safest, we have the finest medical treatment, the safest medicine ever in the history of mankind. And we can and we will continue to try to find additional components of other substances that can be brought beneficially.
The fact of the matter is, while there are people who believe sincerely on one side of this issue, I'm not denying that. But that those of us who have responsibility for saying what this is the law and the standard of science, allow us to stay safe and efficacious. Can't say that about smoking marijuana. We don't smoke weed in modern medicine.
S. O'BRIEN: We will see what the Supreme Court has to say on it at the end of the day. Mr. Walters, it's nice to have you. Thanks for coming in to talk to us. We appreciate it.
WALTERS: My pleasure.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's check the weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, Vioxx could spell doom for Merck. That may actually be a good thing for some Merck executives. We'll explain that with Andy Sewer.
S. O'BRIEN: And also, Bill Nye, The Science Guy, reveals some of the 100 greatest discoveries of all time. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: Well, from Newton and the apple to Einstein's famous formula. You know it, E equals MC squared, that one, right? A new Science Channel series looks at the 100 greatest discoveries of all time, how they have changed your world. And you can buy the CD. No, it's not actually that way.
Here's a sample.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In choosing the 100 greatest discoveries in the history of science, none has the potential to be more controversial than those concerning the origin of life. Earth is an exquisite island.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were not expecting what we found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: The eight-part series premiers December 8. And who better to talk about great moments in science than the series' host, Bill Nye, the Discovery Science Guy, joining us from Washington.
Always a pleasure to see you, sir.
BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY, "100 GREATEST DISCOVERIES": Good to see you, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's tick off all 100 right now. No, let's not do that. What are your first couple of favorites in the discovery realm? We showed briefly there the famous asteroid, the KT impact, which wiped out the dinosaurs. That's a biggie, and that happened only within the past 20 years.
NYE: Yes, the last 20 years. You mean, the discovery in the last 20 years.
M. O'BRIEN: The discovery, no, no, no.
NYE: Yes, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: That's been 65 million since the thing hit, yes.
NYE: I'll let you stand on this, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: We need to clarify that one.
NYE: And by the way, that was an artist rendering. You know, we don't have footage of that. There was no camera in space back then.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, we don't? We were looking in the library for that and the footage we have of the Big Bang. We didn't come up with anything, yes.
NYE: I know you go back.
M. O'BRIEN: Nothing, nothing.
NYE: The thing is that all of these things have affected everybody, all of these discoveries. You know, everything that you can touch and see, as I like to say, in almost every environment that we humans spend time in, including the plants in your office. They were all put there by people, people who understood science.
And science is a process. It's a way of learning about the universe. And these are some of the 100 great discoveries in that process.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Now, going through the list, I was wondering what the criteria was. I was looking for, you know, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich and the paper clip.
NYE: Those would be more inventions than discovery.
M. O'BRIEN: And instead, it's serious science, right?
NYE: Yes. Those would be more inventions than discoveries. So, evolution to me would be quite a discovery. That the Earth is a ball going around the sun would be quite a discovery. That comets have regular orbits. These are astonishing discoveries.
And I had heard Soledad refer to the second law of thermodynamics. Soledad, what's sexier than that? Every...
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: It goes on and on and on. Actually, what's sexier than that? But I realized, I get that it's a very critical discovery.
NYE: Well, any car engine and all of the electricity that's running your television right now is made on account of our intimate understanding of thermodynamics.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. But here's the question, and you referred to it just a few moments ago. You're trying to do this on television, Bill. And there isn't a lot of file tape to really explain all of this. How did you pull this off?
NYE: Well, you know, the Discovery people -- this is the Science Channel, which is part of the Discovery family. And they're hot on the re-creations. So, we have some re-creators. We have some actors here and there.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh.
NYE: And there are a lot of documents. We went to some cool libraries and museums and saw some old, remarkable documents, original notebooks from chemists and stuff, the original footage of the first deep sea events. That's Bob Bower (ph) there talking about that discovery, because it indicated that you don't actually need sunlight all day to have living things...
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that...
NYE: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that suddenly makes the universe potentially an abode for life in ways we hadn't imagined before.
NYE: Oh, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Now, you are a guy that knows a lot of stuff. We all know that. In the course of researching this, what was the one thing that you recall or a couple of things you recall learning that you didn't know before?
NYE: I guess I had an idea that quantum mechanics was important and was pretty well understood. But now, I'm in love with quantum mechanics. It's the most fabulous thing. You know, molecules have wave properties, for crying out loud. You know, it's remarkable. And you get a sense, as far as we may think we may have come as modern humans doing all of our fabulous things, talking to each other on television, you get a sense maybe of how little we know.
You know, the universe isn't just expanding, it's accelerating, because there's dark energy or dark matter or something that we just don't understand. And maybe a century from now or a few decades from now, people will look back at us and go, ha, ha, ha, ha, they didn't even know where dark energy came from. Yet, they went to work every day. My, god, who are those people?
M. O'BRIEN: How did they do it? How did they get by?
NYE: How did they live back then? And you look at the medical discoveries. I mean, people didn't believe in germs 150 years ago. I mean, they didn't believe in terms by the stars. I mean, that is quite a thing not to believe in.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. All right. Excellent. Bill Nye, The Science Guy. And this is on Discovery. When does it start?
NYE: It's on the Science Channel.
M. O'BRIEN: The Science Channel.
NYE: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: It's part of the Discovery family.
NYE: Well said. It starts a week from tomorrow, December 8. And as we say, turn it up loud. Thanks for your time, you guys.
M. O'BRIEN: Set your TiVos, turn it up loud. Bill Nye, always a pleasure. All right.
S. O'BRIEN: I changed my mind.
M. O'BRIEN: See!
S. O'BRIEN: The second law of thermodynamics suddenly is sexy.
M. O'BRIEN: He brought a smile to your face...
S. O'BRIEN: Always, always.
M. O'BRIEN: ... over the second law of thermodynamics.
S. O'BRIEN: Hey, I like that stuff, too.
M. O'BRIEN: That is a guy who can communicate science.
S. O'BRIEN: He always brings a smile to my face. He loves science, and I love him.
Next, Andy is "Minding Your Business." Coming up in the next hour, we're going to bring you a story we've been promising you about those 9/11 operators -- 911 operators, rather, partying on the job. Our interview with the president's drug czar lasted a little longer than we expected, so we'll bring it right to you in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: No surprise that Merck's stock is sinking. What's the company doing to stop the executives from jumping ship? A look at that, Andy Serwer, who's "Minding Your Business."
I like all of those metaphors, sinking ship, jumping ship.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes. Yes, and I've got another one: golden parachutes opening up over Merck.
S. O'BRIEN: Ah!
SERWER: This one is going to raise some eyebrows on Wall Street this morning,. Soledad. People are not going to like this story. Merck revealing in government filings yesterday that it would grant its 200 top executives compensation packages worth as much as three times their annual salary and bonus if the company is taken over and these said executives are terminated.
The reason why people would be concerned about this, of course, is because the company has come under a tremendous amount of fire because of the Vioxx situation, the blockbuster drug they pulled on September 30. The stock has plummeted forty percent since then, making it possible that the company would get taken over.
Now, people on Wall Street would think perhaps that this would be rewarding. Look at that stock chart. That is not a pretty stock chart. And so, people might think that, well, wouldn't this be rewarding the executives for poor performance? And I think that's a very good question. Wouldn't it be rewarding? You could draw that conclusion.
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: But if they all leave, they can't sell the company.
SERWER: Yes, that's right. That's true. So there is that.
But anyway, the company continues to make headlines, and not necessarily in a positive fashion all of the time.
S. O'BRIEN: All right.
SERWER: I think that's safe to say.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Andy, thanks.
SERWER: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Jack has got some e-mails.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: The U.N. oil-for-food program, Miles, a scandal of monumental proportions it seems. The latest revelation courtesy of the New York "Sun" newspaper, who reported the son of the secretary-general of the U.N., Kojo Annan, has been getting payments for five years from an outfit called Cotecna, a Swiss company that held a lucrative contract under the oil-for-food program.
The secretary-general, Kofi Annan, said yesterday that he was surprised and disappointed about the revelations about his son, admitted that the payments create a perception of conflict of interest and wrongdoing. Yes, you might say that.
The U.N. oil-for-food program is the subject of several investigations, allegations of kickbacks to France, kickbacks to Russia, kickbacks to Saddam Hussein.
With the idea that the buck stops at the top, the question is this: Is it time for Kofi Annan to bid adieu to the U.N., as in take it on the Arthur? James in Eugene, Oregon, writes: "Not only should he resign, the U.N. should be disbanded. They have proved how worthless U.N. sanctions are and what a joke the United Nations is."
Lee in Kent, Ohio, writes: "Kofi Annan should resign from his post and a new person should head up the U.N. Since the U.S. supplies the bulk of the U.N.'s funds, even though they only represent a small fraction of the world's population, it only would seem natural that we should be getting what we pay for. An American should be running the U.N."
I'd vote for that.
Corey in Bowling Green, Kentucky: "This is ridiculous. If Kofi Annan were to resign due to his son's actions, then should not the same be expected of other leaders?
And Brenda writes from Townsend, Georgia. I referred to the scandals as growing like mold in a Petri dish. She says, "Like mold in a Petri dish, man, I wish I came up with stuff like that. What structure? I can almost visualize our society's moral decay. How about, like, plaque building on unbrushed teeth? How about, like, mildew growing on a stinky dishrag? Like head lice? Hey, I can do this. Thanks, Jack."
SERWER: Stop!
S. O'BRIEN: Great. Thanks, Jack, while everyone enjoys their breakfast...
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: ... this morning.
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Brenda.
M. O'BRIEN: So much for the pancakes.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: Yes, that's too much.
S. O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is ahead.
In a moment, today's top stories, including the latest on the stalled 9/11 reform bill. Why is the president feeling the heat from both sides of the aisle? A live report from Capitol Hill is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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