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American Morning
From Ground Zero to the President's Cabinet; The Steroid Investigation
Aired December 03, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: From ground zero to the president's cabinet, Bernard Kerik is the choice to take on the enormous job of making America secure from terrorists.
The steroid investigation. Barry Bonds' own words increase the heat on baseball's greatest player.
And life on Mars. The year long Mars mission has told scientists enough to make them want to know more, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: Bill Hemmer has the day off.
Miles O'Brien has been in all week and back with us today.
Good morning.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And we saved the Mars segment for Friday just for Jack.
S. O'BRIEN: Because Jack loves it so much.
M. O'BRIEN: Just to send him off on a nice weekend.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What do they want to learn, that there's more red dirt up there? I mean I don't...
M. O'BRIEN: Among other things.
CAFFERTY: Look at all this red dirt. Let's send another multi- billion dollar probe up there and find some more red dirt.
M. O'BRIEN: Who knows, maybe they'll find steroids up there?
CAFFERTY: Well...
M. O'BRIEN: We don't know.
S. O'BRIEN: Could be anything.
M. O'BRIEN: Anyway, there are some other things making news this morning we want to tell you about.
President Bush and Bernard Kerik clearly cemented their relationship at ground zero. Now the president is asking the former New York police commissioner to join his cabinet as homeland security secretary. There's no doubt that Bernard Kerik knows security, but operating in Washington, that's a different kind of environment. We'll hear from homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, this week the Pentagon issued some dreaded orders. Ten thousand troops told they're not coming home on schedule. They're going to have to stay in Iraq for the elections. We're going to talk to the Army's deputy chief of staff about what that means to morale, to recruitment and also to the safety of those battle weary troops.
M. O'BRIEN: Jack Cafferty is here.
CAFFERTY: Coming up in the "Cafferty File," Miles, in less than an hour, we'll tell you why Nick Nolte could be in trouble again with drugs and alcohol. There's a bulletin. And a very famous man says that his likeness in a museum looks like Julie Andrews on heroin, which is probably not going to make Julie Andrews real happy when she reads about it in the tabloids.
Anyway, "The File" is coming up in a little less than an hour.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, a good tease.
All right, Jack, thanks.
Let's go right to the headlines.
Carol Costello in for us this morning -- hello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Thank you.
Now in the news, San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds could be the next major league baseball player in trouble over steroids. According to the "San Francisco Chronicle," Bonds admitted he used a cream and a clear substance given to him by a trainer. Yes, that trainer. But Bonds says he thought the substances were for his arthritis. The statement was apparently part of a federal investigation into a Bay Area lab, BALCO, suspected of distributing steroids to athletes.
Back to back storms in the Philippines forcing hundreds of thousands to flee their homes. A major bridge collapsing earlier today because of the severe weather, stranding some people. These are amazing pictures of the devastation. Some 600 people have reportedly been killed in landslides and floods triggered by these storms. Disaster officials are still assessing the damage.
Out in California, more testimony expected in the next four hours from friends and family of Scott Peterson. They're asking the jury to spare his life. Scott Peterson's son-in-law took the stand yesterday, calling Peterson "thoughtful" and "sincere." The defense is expected to continue its case today and on Monday. And there is word actor Michael Imperioli is trading sides with the law. The famous mobster from "The Sopranos" will reportedly be taking over for a cop on the show "Law and Order." Jip will step in while Detective Ed Green, played by Jesse Martin, films a movie. You can look for him toward the end of the season, as I'm sure you both will.
M. O'BRIEN: We will be TiVoing, right?
S. O'BRIEN: Not a question about that.
M. O'BRIEN: No. Absolutely.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Carol.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you.
All right, it appears New York City's former police commissioner is getting a new job. Bernard Kerik was in charge of the city's police force during the 9/11 attacks. He is expected to be nominated today by President Bush as director of homeland security.
Jeanne Meserve joining us now from Washington with more -- good morning, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.
In Bernard Kerik, the Department of Homeland Security will get a hard nosed, hard charging former cop with firsthand first responder knowledge. As New York City's former police commissioner, Kerik played a significant role in the city's response to the 9/11 attacks. And in the view of some, that gives him the perfect resume for the homeland security job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Bernie Kerik is a great choice. I can't think of a better choice. He has the intensity, he has the passion. He's a guy who lived September 11. He knows what it's about. My concern in the country is that every day we go past September 11, people sort of forget what happened that day. Bernie Kerik will never let us forget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MESERVE: Kerik campaigned for President Bush during the election and last year was tapped to go to Iraq to train the police force there. But Kerik's rise has been most closely tied to former New York Mayor Rudi Giuliani, who, according to an administration official, made at least two pitches to the White House for Kerik to get the nod for Homeland.
Not everyone is enthusiastic. Some current and former homeland security officials at the federal, state and local level and sources on Capitol Hill worry that Kerik does not have the management skills to pull together and push ahead the sprawling Department of Homeland Security. Some also question whether Kerik has the political clout and savvy to swim successfully in Washington's shark intensified political waters. One official went so far as to say that Kerik's pending appointment by the White House "is a disservice to the country."
A senior administration official responds that Kerik is a proven crisis manager with credibility and firsthand understanding of the war on terror -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: I think the hardest job he may face is just trying to organize that relatively new bureaucracy.
What in his resume tells us he's good at that?
MESERVE: Well, the New York City Police Department is not small. It's larger than many country's armies. It's an enormous force. Clearly, he managed that for some time. So he has that management skills.
But people say this is very different and he's going to be dealing with things besides first responder issues. There's a lot more to homeland security than that. He's got to deal with immigration, with Customs, with intelligence reform, with information technology issues that plague the Department.
So he's got a big, big job ahead of him.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I wonder if the turf battles are even worse there than they would be here in New York City.
MESERVE: They're very serious here because this is a new department. It's trying to carve out its niche. There are many people who feel that Tom Ridge lost some important battles and that the new person coming in really has to be able, as one person put, to break some eggs, to make the omelet, to really have some sharp elbows, to make their way through this town, to really carve out a significant role for the Department. They're not sure that Bernie Kerik, some people at least, are not sure that Bernie Kerik is the person to fill that role.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. I suspect he's got some sharp elbows after all the years. We'll see if it works in Washington.
Jeanne Meserve...
MESERVE: That's what many people say.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
Jeanne Meserve, who covers homeland security for us, thanks for getting up early for us. We appreciate it.
MESERVE: You bet.
M. O'BRIEN: Soledad. S. O'BRIEN: With so much invested in the process, President Bush is holding firm on a January 30 date for the Iraqi elections. The U.S. plans to have 150,000 troops in Iraq by then, the most since the war began.
Joining us this morning to talk about the rising troop count and its consequences, lieutenant General Franklin Hagenbeck, the Army's deputy chief of staff for personnel.
Nice to have you, sir.
Thanks for coming in to talk to us.
LT. GEN. FRANKLIN HAGENBECK, U.S. ARMY: thank you very much.
S. O'BRIEN: Bad news for the families who were counting down the days for their loved ones to come back from overseas.
How do you deal with the morale problems that this is sure to bring?
HAGENBECK: Well, that's always difficult, especially at a time of the holidays approaching right now. And having experienced that myself in Afghanistan, I think the troops understand what they have to do. But it is difficult. But it's important. And the combatant commander, General Abizaid, has made that determination that those troops are needed over this time period to keep the pressure on the insurgents and to prepare for the elections in January.
So I think all the soldiers understand that.
S. O'BRIEN: Back in 2003, though, when they extended them, we heard a lot of rumblings, people, soldiers going very public with their unhappiness, all the way to the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld. I mean very vocal about it.
Don't -- how do you change that this time around?
HAGENBECK: Well, I think that it's a leadership issue and soldiers understand that we're going to be there as long as we need to be there and the length of their service often is unpredictable. We try to establish it at 12 months right now, but they understand that unforeseen circumstances may change that.
S. O'BRIEN: The goal is to bring more security for the elections, to tamp down on some of the insurgency that keeps rising.
Do we read into this, this highest number of troops now, that this was poor planning on the front end?
HAGENBECK: Absolutely not. I think that it's the result of the very successful operations in Falluja. We've moved those insurgents out of there. They have moved to other parts of the country and we're keeping the pressure up. And because it's a large geographic area, you've got to have some soldiers that can cover down on those areas. S. O'BRIEN: But people say OK, it's been -- if it's been a huge success, then shouldn't there be fewer troops, not more troops, and more troops coming in and not the highest number of troops ever?
HAGENBECK: Well, I think that we have to prepare for the elections, as well. We have to ensure that there's safety and security wherever these voting locations are going to be throughout the country here at the end of January. So we're doing two things at once.
S. O'BRIEN: Are you worried that news like this and stories as soldiers die overseas, servicemen and women die overseas, will keep people from joining up?
HAGENBECK: You know, that's a great question and I pay attention to that every single day in the job that I've got right now. And I would tell you, though, that the numbers don't support those kind of conclusions. And it bewilders some of us. The example is that we are exceeding our retention and recruiting goals in the active Army and in the U.S. Army Reserve as we speak now. In fact, we just had 400 soldiers from Fort Carson, Colorado this week reenlist to stay. These are soldiers that have already deployed to Iraq once and they're headed back probably some time late next year.
S. O'BRIEN: Four hundred fifty thousand active duty soldiers. I think that...
HAGENBECK: Six hundred and fifty thousand. When you talk about the mobilized Guard and Reserves that we have, as well as the active duty, we have just roughly 650,000 on active duty today.
S. O'BRIEN: Is that enough to protect us when they're in Iraq and stuck in Iraq, in Afghanistan and then all the other places around the world where troops need to be able to mobilize quickly, even places we don't know about yet?
HAGENBECK: Yes, I think that it is enough. We are stretched, there's no question about it, with the level of effort that we're putting inside Iraq right now. But I think that our army has the flexibility, coupled with the flexibility we have with our Marine Corps and our air power in the Air Force and the Navy.
S. O'BRIEN: Can you tell these folks if they're going to be extended this one time and that's it, at 14 months they'll come home?
HAGENBECK: Well, the combatant commander will make those kinds of decisions. But that, by all appearances, is what it will be at this point.
S. O'BRIEN: The last question for you. An Army-Navy game this weekend, right?
HAGENBECK: Tomorrow.
S. O'BRIEN: So, what do you think?
HAGENBECK: Listen, Navy has had an extraordinary season, eight and two, and we're all proud of them and we all root for Navy...
S. O'BRIEN: Blah, blah, blah. Come on. What do you think?
HAGENBECK: We root for them every day of the year except one, and that's tomorrow. And I think Army is going to, even though they're a two touchdown underdog, that there's going to be an upset tomorrow. Army in a close one.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Lieutenant General Franklin Hagenbeck, nice to have you.
Thanks for coming in to talk to us.
HAGENBECK: Thanks for having me.
S. O'BRIEN: We appreciate it -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Got to root for the home team.
All right, as we've been reporting, baseball great Barry Bonds front and center again in the steroid controversy rocking the sports world this morning. Bonds reportedly testified he used products from BALCO. That's that company being investigated in the sports doping scandal in the San Francisco Bay Area.
The "San Francisco Chronicle" reports Bonds told a grand jury he did not know the two products he used contained steroids. The paper says Bonds claims a trainer told him the products were a nutritional supplement and an arthritis treatment.
Now, revelations from the investigation into BALCO include an admission by New York Yankees' hitter Jason Giambi. Under oath, Giambi said he injected himself with human growth hormone and used steroids for at least three seasons.
CNN's Frank Buckley explains what's on deck for the slugger.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jason Giambi reportedly told a San Francisco grand jury that he took several different steroids and performance enhancing drugs. "The San Francisco Chronicle," which reviewed Giambi's secret testimony, said Giambi was granted immunity, and he identified Greg Anderson as his alleged steroid source.
Anderson is currently charged, along with three other men, with conspiracy, money laundering and illegally distributing steroids as part of the federal investigation into BALCO, a firm that provided nutritional help to top athletes. Anderson was a weight trainer who worked with home run hitter Barry Bonds. And Giambi told the grand jury that's what attracted him to Anderson. "So I started to ask him, hey, what are things you're doing with Barry?"
Bonds has consistently denied using steroids. And trainer Greg Anderson's attorney told CNN that his client never knowingly provided illegal substances to anyone. Giambi has also denied using steroids. Now Giambi's apparent admission is sure to inspire critics of Major League Baseball's drug policy, which they say is easy to thwart.
MARK FAINARU-WADA, "THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE": One expert in the area called the testing program last year an I.Q. test as opposed to a steroids test.
BUCKLEY: Baseball commissioner Bud Selig plans to speak with Giambi as he pushes for tougher steroid penalties.
BUD SELIG, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL COMMISSIONER: I'm going to leave no stone unturned until we have that policy in place by spring training of next year.
BUCKLEY: A representative for Jason Giambi said the slugger had no comment.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: Now, the Yankees say they're considering options for Giambi's future. The team still owes him $82 million. Obviously his contract was on steroids. But they could argue that steroid use violated that contract.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got to imagine the lawyers are going through that thing with a fine tooth comb thinking of ways to get out of that whole thing.
M. O'BRIEN: The bottom line is the lawyers always win in these deals, don't they?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Somebody's lawyers do, at least.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles.
Let's get right to the weather now.
Rob Marciano at the CNN Center with the very latest for us.
Hey -- Rob, good morning again.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Soledad.
Good morning to you again.
A long ways from spring training. Actually, a couple of months away from pitchers and catchers heading down to Florida and to Arizona. (WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, it's time for a lot of people to put up those Christmas lights. We're doing that in the O'Brien household today. How about you?
S. O'BRIEN: My O'Brien household or your O'Brien household?
M. O'BRIEN: No, my O'Brien household. How about yours?
S. O'BRIEN: Isn't that funny? Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: It's O'Brien Christmas light day.
All right, you want to do it safely, though, right? We'll get some tips from "Consumer Reports."
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, the Mars rovers, believe it or not, they're still chugging along. They may have provided the most definitive word yet on whether the red planet could ever support life.
M. O'BRIEN: Regular Energizer bunnies up there.
And more on that steroid scandal that's enveloped Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi and others. Just how dangerous are those drugs that they reportedly used? Who are we going to ask? You know, Dr. Gupta. He's in the house ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: For nearly a year now, I've been regaling you with the exploits of NASA's intrepid pair of Martian rovers. Several times now they have hit Martian pay dirt, or, in this case, bedrock, offering proof the red planet was once warm and wet and thus once a cushy berth for life, potentially.
This week those discoveries were complied in a Mars focused issue of "Science" magazine, giving it all the scientific seal of approval, if you will. And giving us an excuse to take a look back on the last 11 months on Mars.
Denton Ebel is an assistant curator at New York's Museum of Natural History.
He took a few block walk over here to see us this morning.
Good to have you with us, Denton.
DENTON EBEL, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: Good morning.
Nice to be here.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's put it all in perspective. The fact that it's in "Science" magazine really, it's all stuff that we've been hearing all year, because NASA has been releasing it as it happens, which makes it kind of fun for people to participate. But for scientists to get it in the peer review, make it part of the scientific literature, this really puts it in the history books.
EBEL: Exactly. And it puts the analysis data and the results right up front where other people can actually use them. Eleven papers, that's a big issue of "Science." It's going to be big.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, after you've read those 11 papers, I don't know, I forget how many authors are involved, it's a big deal.
EBEL: Over 100 authors.
M. O'BRIEN: Do you walk away convinced that Mars once supported life?
EBEL: The case is really overwhelming that there was water in large abundance in these sites. And we hit a gold mine, literally a million mile hole in one, as Steve Squires said. And these results just describe the first 90 days of the mission. It's been there three times that time.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. And now take a look at this shot. This is the endurance crater. That's that hole in one we're talking about. Opportunity landed there. And what you're seeing there is bedrock. That's like slicing a piece of layer cake on the surface and seeing what's beneath. You could dig there for years and never get that kind of ability to see beneath the surface. And in there were all kinds of clues about water, right?
EBEL: Yes. These are like highway outcrops and geologists love them because they show what's underneath the stuff on top. And this is the first time we saw below all the rubble from impact on the surface of Mars.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Spectacular stuff, and layered things. And we should also talk, though, the science is wonderful and it really captives the imagination as you look at some of those layered rocks and rocks which indicate that they were, you know, kind of layered over time, sedimentary type things.
But, also, it's an engineering accomplishment, isn't it?
EBEL: It's a tremendous engineering accomplishment and it gives us the knowledge to do more engineering in the future because we learn about the rocks and what's there that we could actually use some day. We learn about the structure of the atmosphere. We learn about the winds on the surface, a lot of things besides the rocks.
But the rocks are crucial because these water bearing minerals that deposited those minerals were there for a long period of time. We don't know how far back that was. But these minerals are also the kinds of minerals that would preserve signs of life if there had been life there.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, they've been there almost a year, amazing record, you know, if they went kaput today we'd say a tremendous success.
EBEL: Mission accomplished.
M. O'BRIEN: So, you know, what is left for them to do? And maybe we should also talk about the fact that even over the course of a year, they've traveled a total of less than four miles.
Does that -- what does that say about future missions and how they should be designed?
EBEL: Well, this is five times what they were designed to actually do. So this is amazing, and way more than anyone else has done on Mars. But what is it -- what are we going to do next is your question?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
EBEL: The president has come up with a vision, in consultation with the scientific community, with the Aldrich Commission, which is now being flushed out in terms of a road map of capabilities and strategic plans for where we're going and what we're doing there. And this is giving NASA a whole new dimension, a whole new vision, which will lead us to robotic exploration and eventually human exploration of the moon and, of course, Mars.
M. O'BRIEN: You want to go to Mars?
EBEL: Yes, of course I do.
M. O'BRIEN: Let's go. I'm listening.
EBEL: I'm getting old, though, and I'm a little large. We'll probably send smaller folks, probably military folks.
M. O'BRIEN: You're older, but you're wiser, Denton, so...
EBEL: Well...
M. O'BRIEN: So maybe if you go...
EBEL: ... I'll be doing the telemetry. We've got robots there and we've got a lot of wise people, an international team of people in the Max-Planck Institute in Germany, folks from Copenhagen and, of course, Steve Squires and Jim Bell, a huge team of U.S. scientists and, of course, the rocket scientists and the engineers.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, he's willing and he is able.
Denton Ebel, the American Museum of Natural History.
Thanks for dropping by.
We appreciate it.
EBEL: Oh, this is really great.
It's great stuff.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, good deal -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: We want to mention that we're getting word that the president will make an announcement about Bernard Kerik as homeland security nominee. That's going to happen at 9:50 a.m. Eastern time, about 90 minutes from now. It's going to happen at the White House.
Also this morning, still ahead, insiders say it's no secret that the White House doesn't like Kofi Annan. So why is it keeping quiet on the calls for the U.N. chief to quite? "Gimme A Minute" is coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Jack with the Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: Yes, about these steroids. You've got your Barry Bonds, you've got your Jason Giambi, Marion Jones and who knows how many others.
The question is whether you care if professional athletes use this stuff. I mean let's either give it to all of them or stop any of them from taking it. And there's quite a debate going on among the viewers.
John writes in with this: "I've stopped going to see professional sports. I'm offended by the money, the athletes, the whole thing. I used to be a season ticket holder. On the other hand, I can't wait for the Army-Navy game tomorrow. That game is what sports are all about. I also think the PGA gets it, as do most professional golfers."
Brian in West Monroe, Louisiana: "From a teacher's perspective, if a student cheats on an exam, it skews the results and is grossly unfair to everyone who lost sleep studying for hours on end. Steroid using athletes are no better. Either everyone can use them or no one can use them."
J.R. writes from Vicksburg, Mississippi: "I don't care, but here's an idea. Let's fine them significantly every time they test positive. By significantly I don't mean a flat fine, but a percentage of their yearly contract. Imagine if every positive test reduced their pay 25 percent for the year."
And Dave in Japan writes this: "As far as major league baseball goes, drug use of any kind should warrant an immediate and permanent expulsion from the game. And if you don't think the problem is that widespread, take a look at the Cubs. That ain't ivy they're growing on the outfield walls."
M. O'BRIEN: They're talking (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
So let's get this straight, they're vain, they're greedy and they're addicted. They're human beings, is what you're saying. CAFFERTY: Well, yes, but they're also role models. They're vastly overpaid...
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
CAFFERTY: ... over exposed.
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
CAFFERTY: They're put on pedestals in our society.
M. O'BRIEN: We put them on pedestals. Maybe that's our problem.
S. O'BRIEN: No. They shouldn't cheat. Why is that our problem?
M. O'BRIEN: Should we put them on a pedestal?
CAFFERTY: Well, I mean, guys like Joe DiMaggio managed to do things that probably nobody will ever do again on a baseball field without doing this stuff.
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
S. O'BRIEN: Right.
CAFFERTY: So that's the difference.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Yes?
S. O'BRIEN: I'm with you, Jack, on this one. We're a team today.
M. O'BRIEN: That's sweet.
CAFFERTY: Soledad and I will be your...
S. O'BRIEN: Jack hugged me.
CAFFERTY: We're going to be appearing on "In The Money" this weekend, as well.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, no.
CAFFERTY: The dollar has been falling rather dramatically. It's got people worried. We're going to take a look at what the decline in the value of the dollar means. Some of the things it might mean if it continues unabated are eventual higher interest rates, which would cause your home mortgage or your car loan to rise. But we'll sort it all out on "In The Money," a tidy little business show, Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00. Please try to be on time.
S. O'BRIEN: Because we take attendance. It's a tidy little show.
CAFFERTY: We do take role.
M. O'BRIEN: Would you like a Mars segment for that somehow?
S. O'BRIEN: I can tell you the answer to that, no he wouldn't.
Still to come this morning, a radical...
M. O'BRIEN: You (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
S. O'BRIEN: ... Florida might be ready to get rid of Election Day altogether. The "Gimme A Minute" gang is up next. They'll explain.
Plus, more on the Barry Bonds scandal. If he did take steroids, did he put his life on the line to break those records? We're going to page Dr. Gupta.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired December 3, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: From ground zero to the president's cabinet, Bernard Kerik is the choice to take on the enormous job of making America secure from terrorists.
The steroid investigation. Barry Bonds' own words increase the heat on baseball's greatest player.
And life on Mars. The year long Mars mission has told scientists enough to make them want to know more, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: Bill Hemmer has the day off.
Miles O'Brien has been in all week and back with us today.
Good morning.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And we saved the Mars segment for Friday just for Jack.
S. O'BRIEN: Because Jack loves it so much.
M. O'BRIEN: Just to send him off on a nice weekend.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What do they want to learn, that there's more red dirt up there? I mean I don't...
M. O'BRIEN: Among other things.
CAFFERTY: Look at all this red dirt. Let's send another multi- billion dollar probe up there and find some more red dirt.
M. O'BRIEN: Who knows, maybe they'll find steroids up there?
CAFFERTY: Well...
M. O'BRIEN: We don't know.
S. O'BRIEN: Could be anything.
M. O'BRIEN: Anyway, there are some other things making news this morning we want to tell you about.
President Bush and Bernard Kerik clearly cemented their relationship at ground zero. Now the president is asking the former New York police commissioner to join his cabinet as homeland security secretary. There's no doubt that Bernard Kerik knows security, but operating in Washington, that's a different kind of environment. We'll hear from homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, this week the Pentagon issued some dreaded orders. Ten thousand troops told they're not coming home on schedule. They're going to have to stay in Iraq for the elections. We're going to talk to the Army's deputy chief of staff about what that means to morale, to recruitment and also to the safety of those battle weary troops.
M. O'BRIEN: Jack Cafferty is here.
CAFFERTY: Coming up in the "Cafferty File," Miles, in less than an hour, we'll tell you why Nick Nolte could be in trouble again with drugs and alcohol. There's a bulletin. And a very famous man says that his likeness in a museum looks like Julie Andrews on heroin, which is probably not going to make Julie Andrews real happy when she reads about it in the tabloids.
Anyway, "The File" is coming up in a little less than an hour.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, a good tease.
All right, Jack, thanks.
Let's go right to the headlines.
Carol Costello in for us this morning -- hello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Thank you.
Now in the news, San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds could be the next major league baseball player in trouble over steroids. According to the "San Francisco Chronicle," Bonds admitted he used a cream and a clear substance given to him by a trainer. Yes, that trainer. But Bonds says he thought the substances were for his arthritis. The statement was apparently part of a federal investigation into a Bay Area lab, BALCO, suspected of distributing steroids to athletes.
Back to back storms in the Philippines forcing hundreds of thousands to flee their homes. A major bridge collapsing earlier today because of the severe weather, stranding some people. These are amazing pictures of the devastation. Some 600 people have reportedly been killed in landslides and floods triggered by these storms. Disaster officials are still assessing the damage.
Out in California, more testimony expected in the next four hours from friends and family of Scott Peterson. They're asking the jury to spare his life. Scott Peterson's son-in-law took the stand yesterday, calling Peterson "thoughtful" and "sincere." The defense is expected to continue its case today and on Monday. And there is word actor Michael Imperioli is trading sides with the law. The famous mobster from "The Sopranos" will reportedly be taking over for a cop on the show "Law and Order." Jip will step in while Detective Ed Green, played by Jesse Martin, films a movie. You can look for him toward the end of the season, as I'm sure you both will.
M. O'BRIEN: We will be TiVoing, right?
S. O'BRIEN: Not a question about that.
M. O'BRIEN: No. Absolutely.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Carol.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you.
All right, it appears New York City's former police commissioner is getting a new job. Bernard Kerik was in charge of the city's police force during the 9/11 attacks. He is expected to be nominated today by President Bush as director of homeland security.
Jeanne Meserve joining us now from Washington with more -- good morning, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.
In Bernard Kerik, the Department of Homeland Security will get a hard nosed, hard charging former cop with firsthand first responder knowledge. As New York City's former police commissioner, Kerik played a significant role in the city's response to the 9/11 attacks. And in the view of some, that gives him the perfect resume for the homeland security job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Bernie Kerik is a great choice. I can't think of a better choice. He has the intensity, he has the passion. He's a guy who lived September 11. He knows what it's about. My concern in the country is that every day we go past September 11, people sort of forget what happened that day. Bernie Kerik will never let us forget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MESERVE: Kerik campaigned for President Bush during the election and last year was tapped to go to Iraq to train the police force there. But Kerik's rise has been most closely tied to former New York Mayor Rudi Giuliani, who, according to an administration official, made at least two pitches to the White House for Kerik to get the nod for Homeland.
Not everyone is enthusiastic. Some current and former homeland security officials at the federal, state and local level and sources on Capitol Hill worry that Kerik does not have the management skills to pull together and push ahead the sprawling Department of Homeland Security. Some also question whether Kerik has the political clout and savvy to swim successfully in Washington's shark intensified political waters. One official went so far as to say that Kerik's pending appointment by the White House "is a disservice to the country."
A senior administration official responds that Kerik is a proven crisis manager with credibility and firsthand understanding of the war on terror -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: I think the hardest job he may face is just trying to organize that relatively new bureaucracy.
What in his resume tells us he's good at that?
MESERVE: Well, the New York City Police Department is not small. It's larger than many country's armies. It's an enormous force. Clearly, he managed that for some time. So he has that management skills.
But people say this is very different and he's going to be dealing with things besides first responder issues. There's a lot more to homeland security than that. He's got to deal with immigration, with Customs, with intelligence reform, with information technology issues that plague the Department.
So he's got a big, big job ahead of him.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I wonder if the turf battles are even worse there than they would be here in New York City.
MESERVE: They're very serious here because this is a new department. It's trying to carve out its niche. There are many people who feel that Tom Ridge lost some important battles and that the new person coming in really has to be able, as one person put, to break some eggs, to make the omelet, to really have some sharp elbows, to make their way through this town, to really carve out a significant role for the Department. They're not sure that Bernie Kerik, some people at least, are not sure that Bernie Kerik is the person to fill that role.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. I suspect he's got some sharp elbows after all the years. We'll see if it works in Washington.
Jeanne Meserve...
MESERVE: That's what many people say.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
Jeanne Meserve, who covers homeland security for us, thanks for getting up early for us. We appreciate it.
MESERVE: You bet.
M. O'BRIEN: Soledad. S. O'BRIEN: With so much invested in the process, President Bush is holding firm on a January 30 date for the Iraqi elections. The U.S. plans to have 150,000 troops in Iraq by then, the most since the war began.
Joining us this morning to talk about the rising troop count and its consequences, lieutenant General Franklin Hagenbeck, the Army's deputy chief of staff for personnel.
Nice to have you, sir.
Thanks for coming in to talk to us.
LT. GEN. FRANKLIN HAGENBECK, U.S. ARMY: thank you very much.
S. O'BRIEN: Bad news for the families who were counting down the days for their loved ones to come back from overseas.
How do you deal with the morale problems that this is sure to bring?
HAGENBECK: Well, that's always difficult, especially at a time of the holidays approaching right now. And having experienced that myself in Afghanistan, I think the troops understand what they have to do. But it is difficult. But it's important. And the combatant commander, General Abizaid, has made that determination that those troops are needed over this time period to keep the pressure on the insurgents and to prepare for the elections in January.
So I think all the soldiers understand that.
S. O'BRIEN: Back in 2003, though, when they extended them, we heard a lot of rumblings, people, soldiers going very public with their unhappiness, all the way to the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld. I mean very vocal about it.
Don't -- how do you change that this time around?
HAGENBECK: Well, I think that it's a leadership issue and soldiers understand that we're going to be there as long as we need to be there and the length of their service often is unpredictable. We try to establish it at 12 months right now, but they understand that unforeseen circumstances may change that.
S. O'BRIEN: The goal is to bring more security for the elections, to tamp down on some of the insurgency that keeps rising.
Do we read into this, this highest number of troops now, that this was poor planning on the front end?
HAGENBECK: Absolutely not. I think that it's the result of the very successful operations in Falluja. We've moved those insurgents out of there. They have moved to other parts of the country and we're keeping the pressure up. And because it's a large geographic area, you've got to have some soldiers that can cover down on those areas. S. O'BRIEN: But people say OK, it's been -- if it's been a huge success, then shouldn't there be fewer troops, not more troops, and more troops coming in and not the highest number of troops ever?
HAGENBECK: Well, I think that we have to prepare for the elections, as well. We have to ensure that there's safety and security wherever these voting locations are going to be throughout the country here at the end of January. So we're doing two things at once.
S. O'BRIEN: Are you worried that news like this and stories as soldiers die overseas, servicemen and women die overseas, will keep people from joining up?
HAGENBECK: You know, that's a great question and I pay attention to that every single day in the job that I've got right now. And I would tell you, though, that the numbers don't support those kind of conclusions. And it bewilders some of us. The example is that we are exceeding our retention and recruiting goals in the active Army and in the U.S. Army Reserve as we speak now. In fact, we just had 400 soldiers from Fort Carson, Colorado this week reenlist to stay. These are soldiers that have already deployed to Iraq once and they're headed back probably some time late next year.
S. O'BRIEN: Four hundred fifty thousand active duty soldiers. I think that...
HAGENBECK: Six hundred and fifty thousand. When you talk about the mobilized Guard and Reserves that we have, as well as the active duty, we have just roughly 650,000 on active duty today.
S. O'BRIEN: Is that enough to protect us when they're in Iraq and stuck in Iraq, in Afghanistan and then all the other places around the world where troops need to be able to mobilize quickly, even places we don't know about yet?
HAGENBECK: Yes, I think that it is enough. We are stretched, there's no question about it, with the level of effort that we're putting inside Iraq right now. But I think that our army has the flexibility, coupled with the flexibility we have with our Marine Corps and our air power in the Air Force and the Navy.
S. O'BRIEN: Can you tell these folks if they're going to be extended this one time and that's it, at 14 months they'll come home?
HAGENBECK: Well, the combatant commander will make those kinds of decisions. But that, by all appearances, is what it will be at this point.
S. O'BRIEN: The last question for you. An Army-Navy game this weekend, right?
HAGENBECK: Tomorrow.
S. O'BRIEN: So, what do you think?
HAGENBECK: Listen, Navy has had an extraordinary season, eight and two, and we're all proud of them and we all root for Navy...
S. O'BRIEN: Blah, blah, blah. Come on. What do you think?
HAGENBECK: We root for them every day of the year except one, and that's tomorrow. And I think Army is going to, even though they're a two touchdown underdog, that there's going to be an upset tomorrow. Army in a close one.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Lieutenant General Franklin Hagenbeck, nice to have you.
Thanks for coming in to talk to us.
HAGENBECK: Thanks for having me.
S. O'BRIEN: We appreciate it -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Got to root for the home team.
All right, as we've been reporting, baseball great Barry Bonds front and center again in the steroid controversy rocking the sports world this morning. Bonds reportedly testified he used products from BALCO. That's that company being investigated in the sports doping scandal in the San Francisco Bay Area.
The "San Francisco Chronicle" reports Bonds told a grand jury he did not know the two products he used contained steroids. The paper says Bonds claims a trainer told him the products were a nutritional supplement and an arthritis treatment.
Now, revelations from the investigation into BALCO include an admission by New York Yankees' hitter Jason Giambi. Under oath, Giambi said he injected himself with human growth hormone and used steroids for at least three seasons.
CNN's Frank Buckley explains what's on deck for the slugger.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jason Giambi reportedly told a San Francisco grand jury that he took several different steroids and performance enhancing drugs. "The San Francisco Chronicle," which reviewed Giambi's secret testimony, said Giambi was granted immunity, and he identified Greg Anderson as his alleged steroid source.
Anderson is currently charged, along with three other men, with conspiracy, money laundering and illegally distributing steroids as part of the federal investigation into BALCO, a firm that provided nutritional help to top athletes. Anderson was a weight trainer who worked with home run hitter Barry Bonds. And Giambi told the grand jury that's what attracted him to Anderson. "So I started to ask him, hey, what are things you're doing with Barry?"
Bonds has consistently denied using steroids. And trainer Greg Anderson's attorney told CNN that his client never knowingly provided illegal substances to anyone. Giambi has also denied using steroids. Now Giambi's apparent admission is sure to inspire critics of Major League Baseball's drug policy, which they say is easy to thwart.
MARK FAINARU-WADA, "THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE": One expert in the area called the testing program last year an I.Q. test as opposed to a steroids test.
BUCKLEY: Baseball commissioner Bud Selig plans to speak with Giambi as he pushes for tougher steroid penalties.
BUD SELIG, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL COMMISSIONER: I'm going to leave no stone unturned until we have that policy in place by spring training of next year.
BUCKLEY: A representative for Jason Giambi said the slugger had no comment.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: Now, the Yankees say they're considering options for Giambi's future. The team still owes him $82 million. Obviously his contract was on steroids. But they could argue that steroid use violated that contract.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got to imagine the lawyers are going through that thing with a fine tooth comb thinking of ways to get out of that whole thing.
M. O'BRIEN: The bottom line is the lawyers always win in these deals, don't they?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Somebody's lawyers do, at least.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles.
Let's get right to the weather now.
Rob Marciano at the CNN Center with the very latest for us.
Hey -- Rob, good morning again.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Soledad.
Good morning to you again.
A long ways from spring training. Actually, a couple of months away from pitchers and catchers heading down to Florida and to Arizona. (WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, it's time for a lot of people to put up those Christmas lights. We're doing that in the O'Brien household today. How about you?
S. O'BRIEN: My O'Brien household or your O'Brien household?
M. O'BRIEN: No, my O'Brien household. How about yours?
S. O'BRIEN: Isn't that funny? Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: It's O'Brien Christmas light day.
All right, you want to do it safely, though, right? We'll get some tips from "Consumer Reports."
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, the Mars rovers, believe it or not, they're still chugging along. They may have provided the most definitive word yet on whether the red planet could ever support life.
M. O'BRIEN: Regular Energizer bunnies up there.
And more on that steroid scandal that's enveloped Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi and others. Just how dangerous are those drugs that they reportedly used? Who are we going to ask? You know, Dr. Gupta. He's in the house ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: For nearly a year now, I've been regaling you with the exploits of NASA's intrepid pair of Martian rovers. Several times now they have hit Martian pay dirt, or, in this case, bedrock, offering proof the red planet was once warm and wet and thus once a cushy berth for life, potentially.
This week those discoveries were complied in a Mars focused issue of "Science" magazine, giving it all the scientific seal of approval, if you will. And giving us an excuse to take a look back on the last 11 months on Mars.
Denton Ebel is an assistant curator at New York's Museum of Natural History.
He took a few block walk over here to see us this morning.
Good to have you with us, Denton.
DENTON EBEL, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: Good morning.
Nice to be here.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's put it all in perspective. The fact that it's in "Science" magazine really, it's all stuff that we've been hearing all year, because NASA has been releasing it as it happens, which makes it kind of fun for people to participate. But for scientists to get it in the peer review, make it part of the scientific literature, this really puts it in the history books.
EBEL: Exactly. And it puts the analysis data and the results right up front where other people can actually use them. Eleven papers, that's a big issue of "Science." It's going to be big.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, after you've read those 11 papers, I don't know, I forget how many authors are involved, it's a big deal.
EBEL: Over 100 authors.
M. O'BRIEN: Do you walk away convinced that Mars once supported life?
EBEL: The case is really overwhelming that there was water in large abundance in these sites. And we hit a gold mine, literally a million mile hole in one, as Steve Squires said. And these results just describe the first 90 days of the mission. It's been there three times that time.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. And now take a look at this shot. This is the endurance crater. That's that hole in one we're talking about. Opportunity landed there. And what you're seeing there is bedrock. That's like slicing a piece of layer cake on the surface and seeing what's beneath. You could dig there for years and never get that kind of ability to see beneath the surface. And in there were all kinds of clues about water, right?
EBEL: Yes. These are like highway outcrops and geologists love them because they show what's underneath the stuff on top. And this is the first time we saw below all the rubble from impact on the surface of Mars.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Spectacular stuff, and layered things. And we should also talk, though, the science is wonderful and it really captives the imagination as you look at some of those layered rocks and rocks which indicate that they were, you know, kind of layered over time, sedimentary type things.
But, also, it's an engineering accomplishment, isn't it?
EBEL: It's a tremendous engineering accomplishment and it gives us the knowledge to do more engineering in the future because we learn about the rocks and what's there that we could actually use some day. We learn about the structure of the atmosphere. We learn about the winds on the surface, a lot of things besides the rocks.
But the rocks are crucial because these water bearing minerals that deposited those minerals were there for a long period of time. We don't know how far back that was. But these minerals are also the kinds of minerals that would preserve signs of life if there had been life there.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, they've been there almost a year, amazing record, you know, if they went kaput today we'd say a tremendous success.
EBEL: Mission accomplished.
M. O'BRIEN: So, you know, what is left for them to do? And maybe we should also talk about the fact that even over the course of a year, they've traveled a total of less than four miles.
Does that -- what does that say about future missions and how they should be designed?
EBEL: Well, this is five times what they were designed to actually do. So this is amazing, and way more than anyone else has done on Mars. But what is it -- what are we going to do next is your question?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
EBEL: The president has come up with a vision, in consultation with the scientific community, with the Aldrich Commission, which is now being flushed out in terms of a road map of capabilities and strategic plans for where we're going and what we're doing there. And this is giving NASA a whole new dimension, a whole new vision, which will lead us to robotic exploration and eventually human exploration of the moon and, of course, Mars.
M. O'BRIEN: You want to go to Mars?
EBEL: Yes, of course I do.
M. O'BRIEN: Let's go. I'm listening.
EBEL: I'm getting old, though, and I'm a little large. We'll probably send smaller folks, probably military folks.
M. O'BRIEN: You're older, but you're wiser, Denton, so...
EBEL: Well...
M. O'BRIEN: So maybe if you go...
EBEL: ... I'll be doing the telemetry. We've got robots there and we've got a lot of wise people, an international team of people in the Max-Planck Institute in Germany, folks from Copenhagen and, of course, Steve Squires and Jim Bell, a huge team of U.S. scientists and, of course, the rocket scientists and the engineers.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, he's willing and he is able.
Denton Ebel, the American Museum of Natural History.
Thanks for dropping by.
We appreciate it.
EBEL: Oh, this is really great.
It's great stuff.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, good deal -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: We want to mention that we're getting word that the president will make an announcement about Bernard Kerik as homeland security nominee. That's going to happen at 9:50 a.m. Eastern time, about 90 minutes from now. It's going to happen at the White House.
Also this morning, still ahead, insiders say it's no secret that the White House doesn't like Kofi Annan. So why is it keeping quiet on the calls for the U.N. chief to quite? "Gimme A Minute" is coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Jack with the Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: Yes, about these steroids. You've got your Barry Bonds, you've got your Jason Giambi, Marion Jones and who knows how many others.
The question is whether you care if professional athletes use this stuff. I mean let's either give it to all of them or stop any of them from taking it. And there's quite a debate going on among the viewers.
John writes in with this: "I've stopped going to see professional sports. I'm offended by the money, the athletes, the whole thing. I used to be a season ticket holder. On the other hand, I can't wait for the Army-Navy game tomorrow. That game is what sports are all about. I also think the PGA gets it, as do most professional golfers."
Brian in West Monroe, Louisiana: "From a teacher's perspective, if a student cheats on an exam, it skews the results and is grossly unfair to everyone who lost sleep studying for hours on end. Steroid using athletes are no better. Either everyone can use them or no one can use them."
J.R. writes from Vicksburg, Mississippi: "I don't care, but here's an idea. Let's fine them significantly every time they test positive. By significantly I don't mean a flat fine, but a percentage of their yearly contract. Imagine if every positive test reduced their pay 25 percent for the year."
And Dave in Japan writes this: "As far as major league baseball goes, drug use of any kind should warrant an immediate and permanent expulsion from the game. And if you don't think the problem is that widespread, take a look at the Cubs. That ain't ivy they're growing on the outfield walls."
M. O'BRIEN: They're talking (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
So let's get this straight, they're vain, they're greedy and they're addicted. They're human beings, is what you're saying. CAFFERTY: Well, yes, but they're also role models. They're vastly overpaid...
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
CAFFERTY: ... over exposed.
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
CAFFERTY: They're put on pedestals in our society.
M. O'BRIEN: We put them on pedestals. Maybe that's our problem.
S. O'BRIEN: No. They shouldn't cheat. Why is that our problem?
M. O'BRIEN: Should we put them on a pedestal?
CAFFERTY: Well, I mean, guys like Joe DiMaggio managed to do things that probably nobody will ever do again on a baseball field without doing this stuff.
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
S. O'BRIEN: Right.
CAFFERTY: So that's the difference.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Yes?
S. O'BRIEN: I'm with you, Jack, on this one. We're a team today.
M. O'BRIEN: That's sweet.
CAFFERTY: Soledad and I will be your...
S. O'BRIEN: Jack hugged me.
CAFFERTY: We're going to be appearing on "In The Money" this weekend, as well.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, no.
CAFFERTY: The dollar has been falling rather dramatically. It's got people worried. We're going to take a look at what the decline in the value of the dollar means. Some of the things it might mean if it continues unabated are eventual higher interest rates, which would cause your home mortgage or your car loan to rise. But we'll sort it all out on "In The Money," a tidy little business show, Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00. Please try to be on time.
S. O'BRIEN: Because we take attendance. It's a tidy little show.
CAFFERTY: We do take role.
M. O'BRIEN: Would you like a Mars segment for that somehow?
S. O'BRIEN: I can tell you the answer to that, no he wouldn't.
Still to come this morning, a radical...
M. O'BRIEN: You (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
S. O'BRIEN: ... Florida might be ready to get rid of Election Day altogether. The "Gimme A Minute" gang is up next. They'll explain.
Plus, more on the Barry Bonds scandal. If he did take steroids, did he put his life on the line to break those records? We're going to page Dr. Gupta.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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