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Kerik Nomination; Steroids Scandal; Peterson Sentencing

Aired December 03, 2004 - 9:02 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Protecting America. President Bush to announce Bernard Kerik's nomination for homeland security secretary live in this hour. A tough cop about to back into Washington's political minefield.
Steroids and sports. New fingers pointed at world class athletes Barry Bonds and Marion Jones, casting a shadow over their accomplishments.

And swift destruction. The latest in a swarm of typhoons leaving the Philippines climbing out of nature's terrible grip on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Bill Hemmer's got the day off. Miles O'Brien has been helping us out all week.

Some of the head -- headlines making news this morning is what I was trying to say. Ahead in this hour we're going to take you live to the White House for President Bush's announcement that he wants Bernard Kerik to be his homeland security secretary. The two stood shoulder to shoulder at ground zero after the 9/11 attacks. The president sent Kerik to Iraq to train security forces there.

But that's not the relationship we're going to ask a New York reporter and author to tell us about. We're going to find out how Rudy Giuliani and his future fits into all of this.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here's one we're looking forward to. We're going to meet a couple of remarkable men.

One is an 89-year-old, nearly 90-year-old, who walked away from a 100-foot fall off of a sheer cliff. He was raking some leaves. We'll get the explanation on that. The other is the one who rappelled down the cliff in the pitch blackness to save him.

S. O'BRIEN: Good story.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Look forward to that.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Other top stories this morning, steroids, you're talking about that.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I hate to break it to you, but sometimes professional athletes take performance-enhancing substances. It happens.

Major league sports likes to pretend that it doesn't happen, of course until somebody gets caught doing it or admits that they do it. And then the game is kind of up, and then they have to do all this hand-wringing, about, "Oh, my gosh, there's a problem. What are we going to do? I had no idea."

Do you care? Should you care if professional athletes take this stuff? You can write to us at AM@CNN.com. We're getting kind of an interesting batch of mail on this one this morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet you are.

M. O'BRIEN: A mixed bag, isn't it?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: There are people who say they don't care?

CAFFERTY: Yes. These are professionals. You know, make the -- I mean, they drink, they smoke cigarettes, they chew tobacco. If they want to take steroids, let them take steroids.

Let them do whatever the hell they want. Who cares? They're big enough to make up their own minds. But quit pretending it doesn't exist. OK?

M. O'BRIEN: But think of the children.

S. O'BRIEN: Kind of, yes! I mean, you guys are -- I care.

Anyway, let's get to the headlines and Carol Costello, who I know also cares. Right, Carol?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't. I'm sorry, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, sister. Thanks for sending the love that way.

COSTELLO: I'm sorry. It's like, don't Americans assume every athlete takes steroids? I mean, you know. That's what my friends assume.

CAFFERTY: There you go.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you have headlines for us this morning?

COSTELLO: I have the headlines, yes. Let's get right to them.

Back-to-back attacks in Baghdad to tell you about unfortunately this morning as more troops head out to secure the region ahead of those January elections. About seven hours ago, four suicide bombers plowed a minibus packed with explosives into a mosque in Baghdad. Police say at least 14 people were killed.

Nearby, insurgents launching another attack. This one at a Baghdad police station. At least seven Iraqi police officers were killed. The insurgents also freed more than 20 prisoners.

Over to the Ukraine now, where the country's supreme court apparently in its final hours of deliberations in the disputed presidential election. No decision yet, though. Freezing temperatures have not deterred demonstrations by thousands of opposition supporters. Both candidates in the disputed election have said they will abide by the court's decision.

Dozens of U.S. cities considered at high risk for a terror attack are getting extra funding. The Homeland Security Department is distributing more than $850 million. Almost a quarter of those funds will apparently go to New York City.

And starting today, you can see the holiday Christmas tree on display in Washington, D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Five, four, three, two, one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ah. Pretty. President Bush lighting some 15,000 lights on the national Christmas tree. The president also remembering U.S. troops overseas during this event, and marking the season as the season of hope -- Soledad.

That's nice.

S. O'BRIEN: Al right, Carol. Thanks.

In less than an hour, President Bush is expected to formally nominate Bernard Kerik for secretary of Homeland Security. Kerik was New York City's police commissioner during the September 11 terror attacks.

Andrew Kurtzman is a reporter for WCBS-TV right here in New York, who knows Kerik well. He's also the author of "Rudy Giuliani: Emperor of the City." And I asked him what he thinks about the Kerik nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW KURTZMAN, WCBS-TV REPORTER: It's an interesting choice for President Bush. And Bernie Kerik has, I guess, by Washington standards a fairly thin resume.

On one hand, he led the New York City Police Department, which is a paramilitary force of some 40,000 cops. It's larger than the armies of some foreign countries. On the other hand, he has no political experience in New York or in Washington.

I remember when Maureen Dowd once wrote that Donald Rumsfeld had a black belt in Washington infighting. Well, Bernie Kerik is the opposite extreme. He is coming into this a complete political neophyte. It's going to be interesting to watch him kind of wade into the waters of Washington politics.

S. O'BRIEN: You say interesting to watch him wade into the waters, but one has to imagine that's going to be a huge liability in a job like that, that seems to require a black belt in infighting politics-wise.

KURTZMAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And like I said, it's one of the interesting questions and one of the interesting challenges that Kerik would face.

He's a very experienced administrator. He did a good job in the New York City Police Department by most people's estimations. But this is a big promotion for him.

S. O'BRIEN: Many people thought actually it would be Rudy Giuliani who might be named to the head of Homeland Security.

KURTZMAN: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: Now it's his right-hand man. Rudy Giuliani had what kind of a role, do you think, in pushing for Bernie Kerik?

KURTZMAN: Well, I'm sure that he was very much in favor of Bernie Kerik. You know, you can't overstate the allegiance that Bernie Kerik has to Rudy Giuliani.

Rudy Giuliani has given Bernie Kerik every major public job that Kerik has ever had, with the exception of his stint in Iraq most recently. He was his -- Giuliani's bodyguard during the 1993 mayor's race. Giuliani made him corrections commissioner, he made him police commissioner.

Now he is still on Rudy Giuliani's payroll. So, among other things, it gives Rudy Giuliani a major power base in Washington and in the White House.

S. O'BRIEN: So what does it say about Rudy Giuliani's influence if he calls up some friends? And apparently people have said that he actually lobbied a couple of times on Kerik's behalf. What does it say about his power?

KURTZMAN: I think Rudy Giuliani has just grabbed a major foothold in the Bush administration. And I think he will have major influence in Washington right now. And I think that will serve him well as he thinks about running for president.

S. O'BRIEN: Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say: "Bernard Kerik knows first hand the challenges and needs of New York and other high-threat areas. As a member of the president's cabinet, he can make the case every single day and ensure that Homeland Security funds be allocated based on threat risks and other factors recommended by the 9/11 Commission."

It was sort of a, "Congratulations, he's a good choice." And a little twist of pressure for passing some of those 9/11 recommendations.

KURTZMAN: Sure. Well, I think all these New York politicians are just salivating at what they think will be this new rush of money that they expect to come from Homeland Security because New Yorkers finally in charge. I'm not sure...

S. O'BRIEN: I was going to say, is that realistic?

KURTZMAN: ... that's going to necessarily be coming. I think that if George W. Bush wanted New York City to get a lot more money, he would have had Tom Ridge hand it out.

On the other hand, Bernie Kerik is extremely loyal to New York City. Obviously very loyal to the New York City Police Department. And now New Yorkers have a major advocate for increased funding in Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: If Bernard Kerik is approved, it appears he'll be losing a key lieutenant at Homeland Security. Sources say Asa Hutchinson, undersecretary for border and transportation security, plans to leave the department. Hutchinson had been considered a possible successor to Tom Ridge.

We're going to have live coverage of the president's announcement this hour. That happens at 9:50 a.m. Eastern Time -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: A blockbuster report this morning saying baseball all-star Barry Bonds testified that he used two products but didn't know they contained steroids. This on the heels of the revelation New York Yankees hitter Jason Giambi testified he used steroids for at least three seasons. All this coming from the "San Francisco Chronicle."

With us is the author of a classic baseball book, "Ball Four: A Tell it Like it is Diary of One Pitcher's Season." It became an instant classic back in 1970, and made the author a major league pariah.

Jim Bouton joins us now from Albany.

Jim, good to have you with us.

JIM BOUTON, AUTHOR, "BALL FOUR": Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. You're a "tell it like it is" guy. Are you shocked, just shocked and appalled to hear about steroid use at this level? BOUTON: No, I'm not at all, Miles. As a matter of fact, 34 years ago I said that if there was a pill that would guarantee a pitcher a 20-game -- he would win 20 games but it would take five years off of his life, players would be taking it. I didn't know then that it would be called steroids.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. And at that time, then, were there any sort of performance-enhancing drugs of any kind used, stimulants, whatever?

BOUTON: Well, yes. There were stimulants.

There were pep pills. We called them greenies. And mostly they were to -- to ward off the aftereffects of too much, you know, drinking the night before.

But that's -- and I don't know if you would include cortisone as performance-enhancing. It certainly helped -- helped you if you had an injury.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. People on the outside look at this and say, well, why doesn't baseball just get together and kind of clean this up, come up with some sort of mandatory testing regime, so that every player is on a, you know, even playing field, so to speak, and end it so that this scandal just goes away?

BOUTON: That's right. And that should have been done a long time ago. And I blame the players union for dragging its feet on this issue.

They have elevated the players' rights to privacy above two more important rights, the rights to health and the rights to fair competition, not only among other teams, but among their own teammates for opportunities to play. It's not fair for players who are not taking these enhancement drugs to have to compete against the guys who are. The Players Association should have done something about this a long time ago.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it's interesting how that never seems to be the case in baseball. The players and the owners never seem to get together for the good of the game.

Curt Schilling, Boston Red Sox ace, had some interesting things to say about this. He's a well-spoken guy. Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CURT SCHILLING, BOSTON RED SOX: We make all the same mistakes that you make. We have all the same problems you have when it comes to wives and kids and families and social situations. But the people believe that our incomes should dictate our value system, and it's just not true.

We have -- we have hardships. We have troubles. We have problems in our lives just like everybody else. The game doesn't take that away from us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: All right. But does the stature of being a major league athlete imply in it a higher degree of responsibility? In other words, you're put on a pedestal, should you act differently?

BOUTON: That's a tough question. I think -- I think you should recognize that that's where you are and you should do whatever you can about it to -- in terms of good behavior. But I think it's expecting too much when we -- when we -- when we tell kids that they should be looking up to these guys as special people.

They're really not. They're people with special skills. And as a matter of fact, in the process of achieving those skills they, in many cases, neglect a lot of other areas of their lives. So they're the last people you want to use as role models.

M. O'BRIEN: You've got to be careful of who you choose as a hero, don't you, Jim?

BOUTON: Yes, I think so. And that includes all of us.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Jim Bouton, author of "Ball Four," and later, "Foul Ball," a speaker, businessman and someone who speaks the truth about baseball. Thanks for being with us this morning.

BOUTON: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: There's also a report this morning involving track and field star Marion Jones. On ABC's "20/20," which airs tonight, the founder of BALCO -- that's the company at the center of all of this -- Victor Conte, says he supplied Jones with performance-boosting drugs up to and after the Sydney Olympics in 2000.

Now, Conte says he taught Jones to inject herself with human growth hormone, and that there were no accurate tests for that substance. Jones won five medals at the 2000 Olympics, three of them gold. Jones has repeatedly denied using performance enhancements -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: In California, family members share their memories of Scott Peterson in an effort to save his life. The defense is hoping to connect with the jury through emotional testimony on the third day of the penalty phase.

CNN's Rusty Dornin is following the trial. She joins us from Redwood City, California, this morning.

Hey, Rusty. Good morning.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, you know, the family and friends that have testified so far, they don't believe that Scott Peterson committed this murder in the first place. They want to tell the jury the real Scott Peterson that they know.

They call him kind and caring, responsible, altruistic. And the list, of course, goes on. But the family members also that did testify said that a death sentence for Scott Peterson would be a similar psychological fate for them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DORNIN (voice-over): Tears flowed as Janey Peterson talked about her brother-in-law, Scott. Several Peterson family members also cried while Janey described her fondest memories of Laci Peterson.

"She took my breath away," she said. "She was so bubbly and so fun." Jurors displayed little emotion during her testimony. But when Scott Peterson's half-brother John told funny stories of their childhood, some jurors smiled, and even the defendant chuckled.

Each family member has emphasized how horrible it would be for them if Scott is sentenced to death. John Peterson said, "I would be devastated. I couldn't even imagine. He's my little brother. I love him."

In California, jurors are instructed not to consider the impact on family members when they deliberate a death penalty case. But legal analysts here say it may be hard for some jurors not to.

JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: I think they're praying that one juror will feel so sorry for his parents that they will not pull the trigger, will not send Scott to death. They will not, in other words, make Jackie and Lee's suffering even worse than it's been already.

DORNIN: Earlier, a high school friend, Aaron Fritz, told the jury that Scott Peterson was his role model, always gracious and welcoming. Fritz said Peterson could even have the same positive effect behind bars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DORNIN: In a wrap-up today it's going to be a short day. The judge says it's only going to be three witnesses and then testimony could go into next Monday or Tuesday, meaning the instructions and deliberations may not begin until late Tuesday, Wednesday, or even Thursday -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Even more time in a case that's dragged on. Rusty Dornin for us in California. Rusty, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, just a few months into the job, ambassador -- America's ambassador to the U.N. says he's stepping down because of some family health problems. But circumstances surrounding his resignation have some wondering if that is the real reason.

S. O'BRIEN: Also, an 89-year-old man who went out to do some yard work, then fell down a cliff. We've got his remarkable story of survival. And we'll talk to his rescuer, as well. M. O'BRIEN: And don't forget, within the hour, President Bush expected to announce former NYPD commissioner Bernard Kerik's nomination to head up Homeland Security. We'll have that live. So Kerik -- and stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Eight-nine-year-old Lloyd Rauw -- actually, he'll be 90 on December 28 -- has plenty to be thankful for this holiday season, most of all getting to that milestone of 90. Earlier this week he survived a 100-foot fall down an embankment outside his home near Portland, Oregon.

Now, Lloyd will celebrate that birthday, and he will celebrate it in style. He joins us now, along with Mark Kester, a firefighter and paramedic, who helped rescue him. And this is their first meeting this morning since the accident, by the way.

Good to have you both with us.

MARK KESTER, FIREFIGHTER, PARAMEDIC: Thank you.

LLOYD RAUW, SURVIVED 100-FOOT FALL: Good morning. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Mr. Rauw, you were out raking leaves on a rainy day beside a cliff. Now, that right there doesn't sound like a prescription for a good plan. But nevertheless, tell us what you were doing and how you ended up toppling over.

RAUW: Well, I, like you say, I wasn't -- actually should be out there, because my daughter raked up the leaves in a pile, and she took them to an outfit that took them free for fertilizer. But I thought she was gone, and I saw the pile over there by the bank. And I thought, "Well, why don't I just clean this up for her and save her bagging them again," you know, to take them to this deal.

So I did. I got the rake up there, and pushed the leaves closer to the bank. And I got a little bit too close, and I -- I was going to push them over the bank and let them roll down this 100-foot cliff, which I did, and I went down with them.

M. O'BRIEN: And so down you went. Did you tumble as you went down, or was it kind of a free fall?

RAUW: Oh, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: It must have been something.

RAUW: Oh, I thought I was going to hit one of the -- there were a lot of rocks on the side of the hill there, you know, and I thought I was going to crack into one of those. And that would have been all she wrote.

But I just got a little cut on the arm, and little sore pain in my buttocks. And that's all. And I went down with them.

M. O'BRIEN: So now you ended up down at the bottom of this 100- foot cliff in kind of a creek bed.

RAUW: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: And you still couldn't get yourself out, though, could you?

RAUW: No, I couldn't. I tried. But it was just too much of a slippery climb.

M. O'BRIEN: All right -- so which brings in Mark, of course. Mark who, as a firefighter, also has some expertise rappelling, of course.

And you got this mission. You knew there was a man of 89 years at the bottom of this 100-foot cliff. You must have thought the worst.

KESTER: Absolutely. And especially the fact that it was a dark and cold rainy night. He hadn't been talked to for awhile. But it didn't look good from my standpoint what we were going to find.

M. O'BRIEN: So down you went, and tell me what he was like when you saw him. Was he conscious? Did he -- did he respond well?

KESTER: He was conscious. On the way as I was rappelling down, because it was dark, we didn't know exactly where he was. So I called out his name a few times, and eventually he responded to me.

So I followed his voice through the dark to get to him. And when I got to him, he was -- he was laying in a creek bed on the rocks, and he was conscious. He was talking to us.

He looked cold. And he was having a little -- a few effects of some mild hypothermia, and he was a little bit confused. But I was very surprised to not find really any -- any cuts or broken bones or severe injuries.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, you mentioned the hypothermia. Just being there in the cold for that long line there must have been a real hardship.

Mr. Rauw, to what do you owe your tremendous intestinal fortitude? What is the secret?

RAUW: Oh, boy I wish I knew. I'll tell you. I don't know, though.

M. O'BRIEN: Clean living and rake leaves, but just...

RAUW: I guess so. I don't do any drinking and I don't smoke. And whether that means anything, that might enter into the case.

M. O'BRIEN: And from now on I know you'll be bagging leaves, not trying to send them over the cliff.

RAUW: Yes, that's for sure. I got some more bags. M. O'BRIEN: All right. That's a good idea. We'll send you some bags if you need them.

RAUW: Oh, OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you, though, you guys met -- reunited for the first time. You obviously met that night. But reunited for the first time this morning. Give us a little sense of what transpired.

RAUW: Well, I was glad to see Mark, because he was the one that first approached me and dressed me all up to make the trip up the hill. So I've got to thank him for everything that was done.

M. O'BRIEN: Mark, was it nice to see him safe and sound?

KESTER: It was great to see him. There was a lot of people that I know still haven't yet met him. And I know there's a lot of people that were there and were really happy to see that he came out healthy and was -- walked out of the hospital the next day.

M. O'BRIEN: Mark Kester and Lloyd Rauw from Portland, Oregon, thanks for sharing your story today. And Mr. Rauw, have a happy birthday. Enjoy.

RAUW: Thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the Salvation Army has a big beef with one major retailer. Now the store is feeling the heat. We'll explain ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A major report on the job market's out today. And how will Wall Street react to that news? Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad.

They begin trading stocks about two minutes from now. We'll be looking at Intel and IBM. They should both be active.

Intel upping its revenue forecast. Some good news there.

IBM, according to "The New York Times," selling its PC business, possibly to a Chinese concern. IBM telling CNN it doesn't comment before it has something to say.

The report that you're talking about, Soledad, is the employment report. The jobs report for the month of November coming in at 112,000 jobs added. That's less than expected. They were looking for $200,000 -- 200,000 jobs, excuse me -- and dollars, too. And the unemployment rate does dip to 5.4 percent.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Andy, thanks.

SERWER: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Jack's here -- "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: Do you care whether professional athletes use steroids? We've got Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds and Marion Jones all implicated in these stories about performance0enhancing substances.

Connie writes from Bibb County, Georgia, "Common sense, steroids are dangerous to the bodies of the users. Just because the fans of the gladiators loved all the blood and gore did that make it OK to do it? No."

Mike writes, "If they want to get serious, test every player after every game and use an outside independent testing company, not the National Football League or Major League Baseball security."

Tom writes from West Virginia, "Sorry to hear Barry Bonds has hemorrhoids. Maybe he should try some of that medical marijuana. It sure cured my hearing problem."

(LAUGHTER)

CAFFERTY: What?

S. O'BRIEN: That was very funny.

CAFFERTY: You people are not well. You know that?

M. O'BRIEN: And we love you. We love each and every one of you. Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Who was the one they though was taking Clomid (ph), the infertility drug? Which was the...

M. O'BRIEN: That was Giambi. Giambi was doing that. He was...

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: What's that going to do to your body?

SERWER: He had some serious health problems this last year.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

CAFFERTY: And they got that -- that sexual appetite-enhancing patch for women, right?

SERWER: Do you put that in the mix, too?

CAFFERTY: Now, what if you put like more than one of those on?

S. O'BRIEN: Rrrr! CAFFERTY: I mean, one -- what if you put, you know, run them up and down both arms?

(LAUGHTER)

SERWER: You mean a man or a woman?

M. O'BRIEN: I'm going to try it this weekend and see how it feels. I'll let you know.

SERWER: You're going to put it on yourself or your wife or...

M. O'BRIEN: On the wife. On the wife.

SERWER: All right.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the man who helped keep watch over New York after 9/11 expected to get the top job over at Homeland Security. President Bush is going to make that announcement within the hour. We're going to bring it to you live on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired December 3, 2004 - 9:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Protecting America. President Bush to announce Bernard Kerik's nomination for homeland security secretary live in this hour. A tough cop about to back into Washington's political minefield.
Steroids and sports. New fingers pointed at world class athletes Barry Bonds and Marion Jones, casting a shadow over their accomplishments.

And swift destruction. The latest in a swarm of typhoons leaving the Philippines climbing out of nature's terrible grip on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Bill Hemmer's got the day off. Miles O'Brien has been helping us out all week.

Some of the head -- headlines making news this morning is what I was trying to say. Ahead in this hour we're going to take you live to the White House for President Bush's announcement that he wants Bernard Kerik to be his homeland security secretary. The two stood shoulder to shoulder at ground zero after the 9/11 attacks. The president sent Kerik to Iraq to train security forces there.

But that's not the relationship we're going to ask a New York reporter and author to tell us about. We're going to find out how Rudy Giuliani and his future fits into all of this.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here's one we're looking forward to. We're going to meet a couple of remarkable men.

One is an 89-year-old, nearly 90-year-old, who walked away from a 100-foot fall off of a sheer cliff. He was raking some leaves. We'll get the explanation on that. The other is the one who rappelled down the cliff in the pitch blackness to save him.

S. O'BRIEN: Good story.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Look forward to that.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Other top stories this morning, steroids, you're talking about that.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I hate to break it to you, but sometimes professional athletes take performance-enhancing substances. It happens.

Major league sports likes to pretend that it doesn't happen, of course until somebody gets caught doing it or admits that they do it. And then the game is kind of up, and then they have to do all this hand-wringing, about, "Oh, my gosh, there's a problem. What are we going to do? I had no idea."

Do you care? Should you care if professional athletes take this stuff? You can write to us at AM@CNN.com. We're getting kind of an interesting batch of mail on this one this morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet you are.

M. O'BRIEN: A mixed bag, isn't it?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: There are people who say they don't care?

CAFFERTY: Yes. These are professionals. You know, make the -- I mean, they drink, they smoke cigarettes, they chew tobacco. If they want to take steroids, let them take steroids.

Let them do whatever the hell they want. Who cares? They're big enough to make up their own minds. But quit pretending it doesn't exist. OK?

M. O'BRIEN: But think of the children.

S. O'BRIEN: Kind of, yes! I mean, you guys are -- I care.

Anyway, let's get to the headlines and Carol Costello, who I know also cares. Right, Carol?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't. I'm sorry, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, sister. Thanks for sending the love that way.

COSTELLO: I'm sorry. It's like, don't Americans assume every athlete takes steroids? I mean, you know. That's what my friends assume.

CAFFERTY: There you go.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you have headlines for us this morning?

COSTELLO: I have the headlines, yes. Let's get right to them.

Back-to-back attacks in Baghdad to tell you about unfortunately this morning as more troops head out to secure the region ahead of those January elections. About seven hours ago, four suicide bombers plowed a minibus packed with explosives into a mosque in Baghdad. Police say at least 14 people were killed.

Nearby, insurgents launching another attack. This one at a Baghdad police station. At least seven Iraqi police officers were killed. The insurgents also freed more than 20 prisoners.

Over to the Ukraine now, where the country's supreme court apparently in its final hours of deliberations in the disputed presidential election. No decision yet, though. Freezing temperatures have not deterred demonstrations by thousands of opposition supporters. Both candidates in the disputed election have said they will abide by the court's decision.

Dozens of U.S. cities considered at high risk for a terror attack are getting extra funding. The Homeland Security Department is distributing more than $850 million. Almost a quarter of those funds will apparently go to New York City.

And starting today, you can see the holiday Christmas tree on display in Washington, D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Five, four, three, two, one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ah. Pretty. President Bush lighting some 15,000 lights on the national Christmas tree. The president also remembering U.S. troops overseas during this event, and marking the season as the season of hope -- Soledad.

That's nice.

S. O'BRIEN: Al right, Carol. Thanks.

In less than an hour, President Bush is expected to formally nominate Bernard Kerik for secretary of Homeland Security. Kerik was New York City's police commissioner during the September 11 terror attacks.

Andrew Kurtzman is a reporter for WCBS-TV right here in New York, who knows Kerik well. He's also the author of "Rudy Giuliani: Emperor of the City." And I asked him what he thinks about the Kerik nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW KURTZMAN, WCBS-TV REPORTER: It's an interesting choice for President Bush. And Bernie Kerik has, I guess, by Washington standards a fairly thin resume.

On one hand, he led the New York City Police Department, which is a paramilitary force of some 40,000 cops. It's larger than the armies of some foreign countries. On the other hand, he has no political experience in New York or in Washington.

I remember when Maureen Dowd once wrote that Donald Rumsfeld had a black belt in Washington infighting. Well, Bernie Kerik is the opposite extreme. He is coming into this a complete political neophyte. It's going to be interesting to watch him kind of wade into the waters of Washington politics.

S. O'BRIEN: You say interesting to watch him wade into the waters, but one has to imagine that's going to be a huge liability in a job like that, that seems to require a black belt in infighting politics-wise.

KURTZMAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And like I said, it's one of the interesting questions and one of the interesting challenges that Kerik would face.

He's a very experienced administrator. He did a good job in the New York City Police Department by most people's estimations. But this is a big promotion for him.

S. O'BRIEN: Many people thought actually it would be Rudy Giuliani who might be named to the head of Homeland Security.

KURTZMAN: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: Now it's his right-hand man. Rudy Giuliani had what kind of a role, do you think, in pushing for Bernie Kerik?

KURTZMAN: Well, I'm sure that he was very much in favor of Bernie Kerik. You know, you can't overstate the allegiance that Bernie Kerik has to Rudy Giuliani.

Rudy Giuliani has given Bernie Kerik every major public job that Kerik has ever had, with the exception of his stint in Iraq most recently. He was his -- Giuliani's bodyguard during the 1993 mayor's race. Giuliani made him corrections commissioner, he made him police commissioner.

Now he is still on Rudy Giuliani's payroll. So, among other things, it gives Rudy Giuliani a major power base in Washington and in the White House.

S. O'BRIEN: So what does it say about Rudy Giuliani's influence if he calls up some friends? And apparently people have said that he actually lobbied a couple of times on Kerik's behalf. What does it say about his power?

KURTZMAN: I think Rudy Giuliani has just grabbed a major foothold in the Bush administration. And I think he will have major influence in Washington right now. And I think that will serve him well as he thinks about running for president.

S. O'BRIEN: Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say: "Bernard Kerik knows first hand the challenges and needs of New York and other high-threat areas. As a member of the president's cabinet, he can make the case every single day and ensure that Homeland Security funds be allocated based on threat risks and other factors recommended by the 9/11 Commission."

It was sort of a, "Congratulations, he's a good choice." And a little twist of pressure for passing some of those 9/11 recommendations.

KURTZMAN: Sure. Well, I think all these New York politicians are just salivating at what they think will be this new rush of money that they expect to come from Homeland Security because New Yorkers finally in charge. I'm not sure...

S. O'BRIEN: I was going to say, is that realistic?

KURTZMAN: ... that's going to necessarily be coming. I think that if George W. Bush wanted New York City to get a lot more money, he would have had Tom Ridge hand it out.

On the other hand, Bernie Kerik is extremely loyal to New York City. Obviously very loyal to the New York City Police Department. And now New Yorkers have a major advocate for increased funding in Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: If Bernard Kerik is approved, it appears he'll be losing a key lieutenant at Homeland Security. Sources say Asa Hutchinson, undersecretary for border and transportation security, plans to leave the department. Hutchinson had been considered a possible successor to Tom Ridge.

We're going to have live coverage of the president's announcement this hour. That happens at 9:50 a.m. Eastern Time -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: A blockbuster report this morning saying baseball all-star Barry Bonds testified that he used two products but didn't know they contained steroids. This on the heels of the revelation New York Yankees hitter Jason Giambi testified he used steroids for at least three seasons. All this coming from the "San Francisco Chronicle."

With us is the author of a classic baseball book, "Ball Four: A Tell it Like it is Diary of One Pitcher's Season." It became an instant classic back in 1970, and made the author a major league pariah.

Jim Bouton joins us now from Albany.

Jim, good to have you with us.

JIM BOUTON, AUTHOR, "BALL FOUR": Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. You're a "tell it like it is" guy. Are you shocked, just shocked and appalled to hear about steroid use at this level? BOUTON: No, I'm not at all, Miles. As a matter of fact, 34 years ago I said that if there was a pill that would guarantee a pitcher a 20-game -- he would win 20 games but it would take five years off of his life, players would be taking it. I didn't know then that it would be called steroids.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. And at that time, then, were there any sort of performance-enhancing drugs of any kind used, stimulants, whatever?

BOUTON: Well, yes. There were stimulants.

There were pep pills. We called them greenies. And mostly they were to -- to ward off the aftereffects of too much, you know, drinking the night before.

But that's -- and I don't know if you would include cortisone as performance-enhancing. It certainly helped -- helped you if you had an injury.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. People on the outside look at this and say, well, why doesn't baseball just get together and kind of clean this up, come up with some sort of mandatory testing regime, so that every player is on a, you know, even playing field, so to speak, and end it so that this scandal just goes away?

BOUTON: That's right. And that should have been done a long time ago. And I blame the players union for dragging its feet on this issue.

They have elevated the players' rights to privacy above two more important rights, the rights to health and the rights to fair competition, not only among other teams, but among their own teammates for opportunities to play. It's not fair for players who are not taking these enhancement drugs to have to compete against the guys who are. The Players Association should have done something about this a long time ago.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it's interesting how that never seems to be the case in baseball. The players and the owners never seem to get together for the good of the game.

Curt Schilling, Boston Red Sox ace, had some interesting things to say about this. He's a well-spoken guy. Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CURT SCHILLING, BOSTON RED SOX: We make all the same mistakes that you make. We have all the same problems you have when it comes to wives and kids and families and social situations. But the people believe that our incomes should dictate our value system, and it's just not true.

We have -- we have hardships. We have troubles. We have problems in our lives just like everybody else. The game doesn't take that away from us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: All right. But does the stature of being a major league athlete imply in it a higher degree of responsibility? In other words, you're put on a pedestal, should you act differently?

BOUTON: That's a tough question. I think -- I think you should recognize that that's where you are and you should do whatever you can about it to -- in terms of good behavior. But I think it's expecting too much when we -- when we -- when we tell kids that they should be looking up to these guys as special people.

They're really not. They're people with special skills. And as a matter of fact, in the process of achieving those skills they, in many cases, neglect a lot of other areas of their lives. So they're the last people you want to use as role models.

M. O'BRIEN: You've got to be careful of who you choose as a hero, don't you, Jim?

BOUTON: Yes, I think so. And that includes all of us.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Jim Bouton, author of "Ball Four," and later, "Foul Ball," a speaker, businessman and someone who speaks the truth about baseball. Thanks for being with us this morning.

BOUTON: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: There's also a report this morning involving track and field star Marion Jones. On ABC's "20/20," which airs tonight, the founder of BALCO -- that's the company at the center of all of this -- Victor Conte, says he supplied Jones with performance-boosting drugs up to and after the Sydney Olympics in 2000.

Now, Conte says he taught Jones to inject herself with human growth hormone, and that there were no accurate tests for that substance. Jones won five medals at the 2000 Olympics, three of them gold. Jones has repeatedly denied using performance enhancements -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: In California, family members share their memories of Scott Peterson in an effort to save his life. The defense is hoping to connect with the jury through emotional testimony on the third day of the penalty phase.

CNN's Rusty Dornin is following the trial. She joins us from Redwood City, California, this morning.

Hey, Rusty. Good morning.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, you know, the family and friends that have testified so far, they don't believe that Scott Peterson committed this murder in the first place. They want to tell the jury the real Scott Peterson that they know.

They call him kind and caring, responsible, altruistic. And the list, of course, goes on. But the family members also that did testify said that a death sentence for Scott Peterson would be a similar psychological fate for them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DORNIN (voice-over): Tears flowed as Janey Peterson talked about her brother-in-law, Scott. Several Peterson family members also cried while Janey described her fondest memories of Laci Peterson.

"She took my breath away," she said. "She was so bubbly and so fun." Jurors displayed little emotion during her testimony. But when Scott Peterson's half-brother John told funny stories of their childhood, some jurors smiled, and even the defendant chuckled.

Each family member has emphasized how horrible it would be for them if Scott is sentenced to death. John Peterson said, "I would be devastated. I couldn't even imagine. He's my little brother. I love him."

In California, jurors are instructed not to consider the impact on family members when they deliberate a death penalty case. But legal analysts here say it may be hard for some jurors not to.

JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: I think they're praying that one juror will feel so sorry for his parents that they will not pull the trigger, will not send Scott to death. They will not, in other words, make Jackie and Lee's suffering even worse than it's been already.

DORNIN: Earlier, a high school friend, Aaron Fritz, told the jury that Scott Peterson was his role model, always gracious and welcoming. Fritz said Peterson could even have the same positive effect behind bars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DORNIN: In a wrap-up today it's going to be a short day. The judge says it's only going to be three witnesses and then testimony could go into next Monday or Tuesday, meaning the instructions and deliberations may not begin until late Tuesday, Wednesday, or even Thursday -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Even more time in a case that's dragged on. Rusty Dornin for us in California. Rusty, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, just a few months into the job, ambassador -- America's ambassador to the U.N. says he's stepping down because of some family health problems. But circumstances surrounding his resignation have some wondering if that is the real reason.

S. O'BRIEN: Also, an 89-year-old man who went out to do some yard work, then fell down a cliff. We've got his remarkable story of survival. And we'll talk to his rescuer, as well. M. O'BRIEN: And don't forget, within the hour, President Bush expected to announce former NYPD commissioner Bernard Kerik's nomination to head up Homeland Security. We'll have that live. So Kerik -- and stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Eight-nine-year-old Lloyd Rauw -- actually, he'll be 90 on December 28 -- has plenty to be thankful for this holiday season, most of all getting to that milestone of 90. Earlier this week he survived a 100-foot fall down an embankment outside his home near Portland, Oregon.

Now, Lloyd will celebrate that birthday, and he will celebrate it in style. He joins us now, along with Mark Kester, a firefighter and paramedic, who helped rescue him. And this is their first meeting this morning since the accident, by the way.

Good to have you both with us.

MARK KESTER, FIREFIGHTER, PARAMEDIC: Thank you.

LLOYD RAUW, SURVIVED 100-FOOT FALL: Good morning. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Mr. Rauw, you were out raking leaves on a rainy day beside a cliff. Now, that right there doesn't sound like a prescription for a good plan. But nevertheless, tell us what you were doing and how you ended up toppling over.

RAUW: Well, I, like you say, I wasn't -- actually should be out there, because my daughter raked up the leaves in a pile, and she took them to an outfit that took them free for fertilizer. But I thought she was gone, and I saw the pile over there by the bank. And I thought, "Well, why don't I just clean this up for her and save her bagging them again," you know, to take them to this deal.

So I did. I got the rake up there, and pushed the leaves closer to the bank. And I got a little bit too close, and I -- I was going to push them over the bank and let them roll down this 100-foot cliff, which I did, and I went down with them.

M. O'BRIEN: And so down you went. Did you tumble as you went down, or was it kind of a free fall?

RAUW: Oh, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: It must have been something.

RAUW: Oh, I thought I was going to hit one of the -- there were a lot of rocks on the side of the hill there, you know, and I thought I was going to crack into one of those. And that would have been all she wrote.

But I just got a little cut on the arm, and little sore pain in my buttocks. And that's all. And I went down with them.

M. O'BRIEN: So now you ended up down at the bottom of this 100- foot cliff in kind of a creek bed.

RAUW: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: And you still couldn't get yourself out, though, could you?

RAUW: No, I couldn't. I tried. But it was just too much of a slippery climb.

M. O'BRIEN: All right -- so which brings in Mark, of course. Mark who, as a firefighter, also has some expertise rappelling, of course.

And you got this mission. You knew there was a man of 89 years at the bottom of this 100-foot cliff. You must have thought the worst.

KESTER: Absolutely. And especially the fact that it was a dark and cold rainy night. He hadn't been talked to for awhile. But it didn't look good from my standpoint what we were going to find.

M. O'BRIEN: So down you went, and tell me what he was like when you saw him. Was he conscious? Did he -- did he respond well?

KESTER: He was conscious. On the way as I was rappelling down, because it was dark, we didn't know exactly where he was. So I called out his name a few times, and eventually he responded to me.

So I followed his voice through the dark to get to him. And when I got to him, he was -- he was laying in a creek bed on the rocks, and he was conscious. He was talking to us.

He looked cold. And he was having a little -- a few effects of some mild hypothermia, and he was a little bit confused. But I was very surprised to not find really any -- any cuts or broken bones or severe injuries.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, you mentioned the hypothermia. Just being there in the cold for that long line there must have been a real hardship.

Mr. Rauw, to what do you owe your tremendous intestinal fortitude? What is the secret?

RAUW: Oh, boy I wish I knew. I'll tell you. I don't know, though.

M. O'BRIEN: Clean living and rake leaves, but just...

RAUW: I guess so. I don't do any drinking and I don't smoke. And whether that means anything, that might enter into the case.

M. O'BRIEN: And from now on I know you'll be bagging leaves, not trying to send them over the cliff.

RAUW: Yes, that's for sure. I got some more bags. M. O'BRIEN: All right. That's a good idea. We'll send you some bags if you need them.

RAUW: Oh, OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you, though, you guys met -- reunited for the first time. You obviously met that night. But reunited for the first time this morning. Give us a little sense of what transpired.

RAUW: Well, I was glad to see Mark, because he was the one that first approached me and dressed me all up to make the trip up the hill. So I've got to thank him for everything that was done.

M. O'BRIEN: Mark, was it nice to see him safe and sound?

KESTER: It was great to see him. There was a lot of people that I know still haven't yet met him. And I know there's a lot of people that were there and were really happy to see that he came out healthy and was -- walked out of the hospital the next day.

M. O'BRIEN: Mark Kester and Lloyd Rauw from Portland, Oregon, thanks for sharing your story today. And Mr. Rauw, have a happy birthday. Enjoy.

RAUW: Thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the Salvation Army has a big beef with one major retailer. Now the store is feeling the heat. We'll explain ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A major report on the job market's out today. And how will Wall Street react to that news? Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad.

They begin trading stocks about two minutes from now. We'll be looking at Intel and IBM. They should both be active.

Intel upping its revenue forecast. Some good news there.

IBM, according to "The New York Times," selling its PC business, possibly to a Chinese concern. IBM telling CNN it doesn't comment before it has something to say.

The report that you're talking about, Soledad, is the employment report. The jobs report for the month of November coming in at 112,000 jobs added. That's less than expected. They were looking for $200,000 -- 200,000 jobs, excuse me -- and dollars, too. And the unemployment rate does dip to 5.4 percent.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Andy, thanks.

SERWER: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Jack's here -- "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: Do you care whether professional athletes use steroids? We've got Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds and Marion Jones all implicated in these stories about performance0enhancing substances.

Connie writes from Bibb County, Georgia, "Common sense, steroids are dangerous to the bodies of the users. Just because the fans of the gladiators loved all the blood and gore did that make it OK to do it? No."

Mike writes, "If they want to get serious, test every player after every game and use an outside independent testing company, not the National Football League or Major League Baseball security."

Tom writes from West Virginia, "Sorry to hear Barry Bonds has hemorrhoids. Maybe he should try some of that medical marijuana. It sure cured my hearing problem."

(LAUGHTER)

CAFFERTY: What?

S. O'BRIEN: That was very funny.

CAFFERTY: You people are not well. You know that?

M. O'BRIEN: And we love you. We love each and every one of you. Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Who was the one they though was taking Clomid (ph), the infertility drug? Which was the...

M. O'BRIEN: That was Giambi. Giambi was doing that. He was...

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: What's that going to do to your body?

SERWER: He had some serious health problems this last year.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

CAFFERTY: And they got that -- that sexual appetite-enhancing patch for women, right?

SERWER: Do you put that in the mix, too?

CAFFERTY: Now, what if you put like more than one of those on?

S. O'BRIEN: Rrrr! CAFFERTY: I mean, one -- what if you put, you know, run them up and down both arms?

(LAUGHTER)

SERWER: You mean a man or a woman?

M. O'BRIEN: I'm going to try it this weekend and see how it feels. I'll let you know.

SERWER: You're going to put it on yourself or your wife or...

M. O'BRIEN: On the wife. On the wife.

SERWER: All right.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the man who helped keep watch over New York after 9/11 expected to get the top job over at Homeland Security. President Bush is going to make that announcement within the hour. We're going to bring it to you live on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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