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CNN Live Saturday

New Photos Show Navy SEAL's Allegedly Abusing Detainees; Pakitan's President Musharraf Visits Washington; Congress Optimistic About Passing Intelligence Reform Bill Before New Year

Aired December 04, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2 pm on the East Coast, 1 am on the West Coast. Good afternoon, I'm Fredricka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour: Has it happened again? The latest on photos that appear to show Navy SEALs with detainees and the Navy's investigation.

An all-important ally in the war on terror visits the White House. What's Pakistan's position on the hunt for Osama bin Laden?

And intelligence reform, new doubts about whether Congress can pass the bill the 9/11 Commission says America needs.

Those stories in a moment. But first, a look at the headlines.

Luggage packed with explosives disappeared or was misplaced during a police training exercise at a Paris area airport. Now the search for the explosives stretches all the way to Los Angeles, where one of four U.S.-bound Air France planes landed. Still no sign of the explosives. Three other Air France planes were searched at JFK Airport in New York.

A splash landing for this cargo plane. It slammed into this lake surrounded by high-rise condos in the Miami area this morning. Police say the pilot and co-pilot on board the DC-3 escaped safely. No one on the ground or any of the boats on the lake was hurt.

Former Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega is recovering from a mild stroke suffered three days ago. Noriega's attorney says he is in stable condition and there appears to be no neurological damage. He is expected to return to a federal prison in the Miami area.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Up first this hour, the global war on terror and Pakistan's hunt for Osama bin Laden. Those were key topics up for discussion today when President Bush and Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf met at the White House.

We get the latest from CNN's Suzanne Malveaux at the Executive Mansion.

Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, here's how it all unfolded.

We're told that Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf was in Latin America and headed to Great Britain and he called President Bush to ask if he could stop by and congratulate him on his re-election win. The president said yes, so they got together on a rare Saturday session in the Oval Office earlier today.

Of course, as you know, Pakistan is really one of the most critical allies in the war on terror. It helped orchestrate and rout out the Taliban in neighboring Afghanistan. Both leaders praising each other for the cooperative efforts in the war on terror but also addressing a number of concerns as well.

One of those concerns is Pakistan's role in the hunt for Osama bin Laden. It was recently that military leader for Pakistan said they were pulling out of a particular region, no longer looking for Osama bin Laden in that region. But President Bush today did not express any kind of concern about that. Rather, the two leaders emphasized their cooperation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: His army has been incredibly active and very brave in southern was Waziristan, flushing out an enemy that thought they had found safe haven. His army has suffered casualties, and for that we want to thank their loved ones for the sacrifice that their family has made.

The president has been a determined leader to bring to justice not only people like Osama bin Laden, but to bring to justice those who would inflict harm and pain on his own people.

GEN. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: We discussed terrorism in its entire complexity. And within that, hunting every terrorist was discussed, of course. The operation against terrorists in Pakistan, on our borders, was discussed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Musharraf was also looking for assurance from President Bush that he would continue to work hard on the Israeli/Palestinian negotiations, the conflict, try to find a resolution. That's exactly what President Bush did. He made a public statement about that saying he would make it a priority of his administration.

But Musharraf did not get an assurance that he would be able to buy some weapons from the United States including surveillance military planes, F-16s, that Pakistan has been desiring for some time now. It's not expected that there was going to be an announcement on that. But certainly both administrations are looking at that option, Fred?

WHITFIELD: And, Suzanne, as an extension of the war on terror, the president is really trying to put some pressure on Congress to get to the bottom of passing this 9/11 intelligence reform bill. To what extent is he applying the pressure? I know he was on his radio address earlier today. But how is he reaching out to those members of Congress?

MALVEAUX: Absolutely, Fred, this is really being called a full- court press by the White House to get that intelligence reform bill passed in the next couple of weeks of course, before the lame duck session is over.

One thing that the president has been working on, we expect that as early as Monday that letter will be delivered. It will be a letter to Congress. He's been working on the language saying, Look, we recognize some of the Pentagon's concerns about transfer of power, about continuity of power and authority, those type of issues, but at the same time we need to make some major changes when it comes to the intelligence community. That's something he'll be sending to those members.

He's also been on the phone making calls to the House and Senate Republican leadership trying to push this through. And really, Fred, it is seen as a major credibility test for this president whether or not he has the leadership to actually lead his own party to back his legislation.

WHITFIELD: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, at the White House, thanks so much.

Be sure to join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow at Noon Eastern for a CNN exclusive. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf will join Wolf on CNN's "Late Edition".

Well now to Iraq, where it's been a deadly day for U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police. Insurgents set off twin bombings in the green zone area of Baghdad. Elsewhere, militants used roadside bombings to create chaos. CNN's Karl Penhaul has more from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN INT'L CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Smoke billows skyward minutes after two car bombs explode. Seconds later you can hear the bullets fly as insurgents trade fire with Iraqi guards manning two checkpoints in the fortified green zone.

Iraqi officials say the main target was just opposite, a district police station. As the ambulances shuttle away the dead and injured, it's clear that police have borne the brunt of the blast. It has a busy few days at Baghdad's Yarmook (ph) Hospital after a wave of guerrilla strikes across the capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were standing outside when we saw the car drive up with a young man. Suddenly it exploded. Is it a process that took no longer than 10 seconds. Then everybody was dead in the street.

PENHAUL: Insurgents seem to be increasingly targeting Iraqi security forces instead of better-equipped and better-trained coalition troops. Mushpak Tal Ali (ph) joined the police nine days ago. One of the riskiest jobs in the country right now. The pay, roughly $220 a month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The hunger was killing my family. We have no work. What are we supposed to do? Steal?

PENHAUL: He's been watching medics bandage up his wounded buddies all morning or wheeling out others who died. He says he had a premonition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just this morning we were thinking that today something was going to happen to us. I had a dream last night that I was passing around empty glasses. If they were full, I would have died.

PENHAUL: Ali's leg has been ripped apart. Looking at the stretchers of blood in the yard, it could have been worse. Each day since Ali began his new job, he kisses his wife good-bye and warns her he may not make it home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I tell her that if I die, she should get married again. Where else would she go? Back to her family? It's better for her to marry.

PENHAUL: Insurgents struck elsewhere Saturday. Hitting a military convoy and killing a U.S. soldier with a roadside bomb in Baqubah. Another U.S. soldier was killed when rebels bombed trucks in east Baghdad.

(On camera): As the countdown to the January 30th elections continues, government officials believe the resistance fighters whom they described as desperadoes will step up their sabotage campaign. Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: We have confirmation now of another American casualties in Iraq within the past 24 hours. A military spokesman says two U.S. soldiers were killed and five wounded yesterday in a car bombing. It happened at the Treble (ph) border crossing between Jordan and Iraq.

There's been bloodshed in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul today. A suicide car bomber blew up his vehicle beside a bus carrying Kurdish militiamen. Authorities say at least seven were killed.

Prisoners and photos, the Navy is investigating Internet photos that appear to show Navy SEALs posing with Iraqi detainees. CNN's Kimberly Osias is live, from Washington, with more details -- Kimberly.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Fredricka.

Well, the photos may not show a clear case of abuse, but Navy officials say they do display poor judgment at a minimum. They're now conducting a preliminary investigation. Who exactly took the pictures is unclear at this point.

There are about 200 of them in all. Only a few of which are now drawing attention. Date stamps on the photos indicate May 2003; several months before the far more brutal photos from Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison were taken.

According to the Associated Press, the pictures were placed on the Internet by serviceman's wife, who just returned from duty. That site is now only accessible by a password, according to senior Navy official.

Take a look at the photos, you are looking at them now.

One shows a detainee lying face up on the ground with a boot at his chest. Another shows a detainee appearing to be grabbed forcefully at the neck. Others show some apparently with blood.

What all this means exactly is difficult to say right now because Navy officials are still investigating the context in which the photos were taken. And that context is a critical distinction between this and Abu Ghraib.

Some former officials say this instance appears to be not in a prison, but rather at a point of capture. And different standards apply. Navy specialist Jeff Bender says the matter is under investigation.

He also adds "There are strict Navy regulations prohibiting the photographing of detainees for other than official purposes. Additionally, prior to deployment, Navy special warfare personnel are instructed that taking unofficial photographs of POWs and detainees is prohibited."

Military attorneys say this incident is vastly different from Abu Ghraib and that the photos are inconclusive. Sources say if the preliminary investigation suggests criminal wrongdoing, services will be called in. And, Fredricka, as of now, that has not happened.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kimberly Osias in Washington. Thanks very much.

The political battle over intelligence reform. President Bush says he supports the legislation. Will it be enough to get Congress to act on it. We'll talk with our Political Analyst Bill Schneider about the delay.

Plus this ...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Canada cannot be the drugstore for the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Why the nation's neighbor to the north may be saying enough is enough when it comes to Americans searching for cheaper prescription drugs.

And still to come, why America's latest crime spree involves a yellow sponge in pants.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Lawmakers return to Washington Monday where they face a renewed battle over the intelligence reform bill. In his weekly radio address today, President Bush added a sense of urgency, pressing for passage next week and insisting the reform act would make America safer and help defeat the terrorist threat. Here's more from White House Spokesman Scott McClellan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: The president expressed earlier this week in Canada that he hopes we can get it done next week. We continue to be in very close contact with congressional leaders, both the president and the vice president and members of the senior staff, to get this legislation moving forward.

I've seen a number of comments from congressional leaders saying that they are hopeful that it can get done next week as well. We're continuing to work through some of the remaining issues, but I think the president's views are very clear. Secretary Rumsfeld, General Myers have expressed their support for moving forward on this as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The Pentagon, along with some House Republicans, oppose the bill. And just yesterday Republican Senator John Warner, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, says he shares some of their concerns. Here to discuss the politics is CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider.

Good to see you, Bill.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right on this intelligence reform, some of the hang-ups have been about immigration as well as the chain of command. Have these issues been resolved? Is congress any closer to finding some compromise to make everyone happy on this bill?

SCHNEIDER: I think the president is trying to find some compromise. He's trying to get some changes made to the bill to reassure members of Congress particularly in his own party that it would not in any way endanger the intelligence used to protect troops in the field. That's the number one consideration.

I haven't heard yet of any real compromise on the immigration part of it, on the issue of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, but they're probably working on that, too.

The big issue here is a very straightforward one. In the House, the Republican leadership is essentially following a rule that says they do not want to pass this bill. Look, they could pass it tomorrow, they've got the votes. But they don't have a majority of Republicans in favor of it because there are many reservations among Republicans.

They don't want to pass this bill and make the passage of the bill attributable to Democratic votes. They say it has to not just have the majority of Congress but the majority of Republicans in Congress for them to put it to a vote. That's a fairly new rule. And it's different.

Many times Bill Clinton put controversial issues like NAFTA up for a vote and he didn't get most of his party to support them. And they were passed because of Republicans. Now the Republicans in control of Congress solidly are following a different rule.

WHITFIELD: And at least two Republicans who were the holdouts on this whole issue have had a lot of power in delaying the passage of this. They, too, will be among those who are receiving a letter, that Suzanne Malveaux was reporting on earlier today that will be coming from President Bush saying this is the kind of bill that we need in order to keep this country secure and safe. Will that be effective enough?

SCHNEIDER: Look, if it comes directly from the president, depends how actively he gets involved. He's shown an inclination now to become activity involved. The radio address, he's sending letters, he's trying to reach compromises on some of the key issues. But his clout, his stature is at stake here. He's got to get this bill passed.

It will only happen if he personally intercedes with members of Congress of his own party. I repeat, the votes are there. But in order to get the leadership of Congress, the Republican leaders to put it up for a vote, he's got to assure them that the Republican votes are there.

WHITFIELD: OK. And let's talk about the Cabinet now. You've got eight of 15 Cabinet members who have either stepped down or have been replaced. Is this unusual when you're talking about a second term? They're talking about Cabinet positions that are very stressful and tough. How unusual is it going into a second term that the president may replenish or replace the majority or more than half of his Cabinet?

SCHNEIDER: That's not unusual. What's unusual is that it's happening so quickly, that it's happening so quickly after the election. It usually doesn't happen this fast. It usually happens over a series of months.

But in this case, it's happening very rapidly. Some say it's because this administration is run by businesspeople. George Bush has an MBA. This is the business model. You want to get a fresh start, so you want new faces, you want fresh blood in there. We know this president has indicated he wants to put some stress on his domestic agenda, particularly tax reform and Social Security reform.

Those are going to be his top priorities. He wants to get a new team in place. In business, this isn't unusual. It is just happening faster than usual in politics.

WHITFIELD: A lot of pressure being put on the position of Homeland Security, the new nominee Kerik coming from a New York City post and now being thrust into a Washington post. What's that transition going to be like?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the question people are asking is how much does he know about managing an enormous bureaucracy. I believe the Homeland Security is the second largest department after the Defense Department. It is a huge management job.

While he was police commissioner of New York City, which is no small thing, this is a whole new world. He's got an enormous bureaucracy. He's got to deal with members of Congress, who as we see in the intelligence bill, are very sensitive to issues of turf, on issues of what agencies will be responsible for.

When an agency feels that its turf is being violated, that it's not being given due consideration, they go right to Congress. It becomes all about politics. Bernard Kerik's political skills and management skills are not entirely tested.

WHITFIELD: All right, Bill Schneider, thanks for joining us.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

WHITFIELD: Washington State's governor's race goes back for another recount. State Democrats came up with the money yesterday to foot the bill. Just 42 votes separate leading Republican Dino Rossi from Democrat Christine Gregory. This time, the recount will be done by hand. And it is expected to begin on Wednesday.

There's leftover election business in Louisiana as well, as voters again head to the polls. Runoffs are being held today for two U.S. House seats. The runoff is being held because none of the candidates received more than 50 percent of the vote back in November.

Steven Spielberg won an Oscar bringing his inspirational story to the big screen. But did "Schindler's List" really tell the whole story? I'll talk with the author of a new book that paints a different picture of Oskar Schindler.

Find out how Senator John McCain wants Congress to get involved in the ever widening steroid drug scandal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN MOVIE CLIP, "SCHINDLER'S LIST ")

I'd make sure that it is known that the company is in business. I'd see that it had a certain panache, that's an angle that, not to work, not to work, presentation.

(END MOVIE CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Steven Spielberg's Academy Award winning film told the story of the German factory owner Oskar Schindler. Schindler saved hundreds of Jews from the Nazis concentration camps but was Spielberg's movie on the mark? There's a less flattering portrayal in the book, "Oskar Schindler: The Untold Account of His Life, Wartime Activities, and the True Story Behind the List". The author is David Crow. And he joins us from Boston. He's a history professor in at Elan University in North Carolina.

Good to see you, professor.

DAVID CROWE, AUTHOR, "OSKAR SCHINDLER": Good afternoon.

WHITFIELD: Well, is it fair to say that you present the antithesis of the portrayal that we know of Oskar Schindler in Steven Spielberg's movie?

CROWE: No, not really. As a matter of fact, I think Schindler was an even greater hero than portrayed by Spielberg.

WHITFIELD: In what way?

CROWE: Well, I think that you need to look not so much at a singular act like the creation of the Schindler's list, but instead really look at the fact that Oskar invested three years of his time and his money in a very brave and bold effort to save the lives of almost 1100 Jews.

WHITFIELD: But then isn't it correct in your book you say he wasn't the hero that provided the list of Jews whose lives were spared. Instead, you say for one, there wasn't a list at all, and you say he was a charming man, a drinker, a womanizer, none of which are usually flattering terms? What are your accounts based on?

CROWE: Well, basically, I was given access to all of Oskar's vast letters and other personal letters, and documents that I found really all over -- literally all over the world in Germany, Israel, the Czech Republic and things like that.

I think the point of the story, what I think some commentators have done in looking at the book they've sort of gotten the sense that the book, because it contradicts the fictional story in Spielberg's film about the creation of the list, that somehow that is negating the deeds that Oskar actually did during the Holocaust.

WHITFIELD: What inspired you to write the book? What came first? The research that uncovered some of these interesting tidbits, that you thought? Or was it an intrigue that you had about him in the first place?

CROWE: I think the intrigue came from the fact that I saw the film and here you suddenly have appearing before us a moral touchstone for the Holocaust. And yet other than Thomas Caneli's (ph) historical novel and Steven Spielberg's film, there was actually no historical work documenting it. So I basically went into this biography with a clean slate.

And either one of two things could have come out of it. Either it could have totally contradicted historically what Spielberg said in terms of Oskar's heroism or it could have made him an even bigger hero.

One thing I should add is that the womanizing and the drinking really is not an integral part of the story. I think it was perhaps overdone in the film. But in reality and the totality of Oskar's life story, which this biography is about, the drinking and the womanizing is really not a major concern, a major issue.

WHITFIELD: So what kind of reaction have you received?

CROWE: Well, for the most part, it's been excellent. Scholars I've talked to have praised the book. I've heard from a number of Schindler Jews that I worked intimately with that said it was right on the money. So it's been, for the most part, very, very positive.

WHITFIELD: Are there any who have expressed that, you know, you kind of deflated what they thought to be, you know, nothing but the heroic terms in which they think of Oskar Schindler?

CROWE: No, I don't think so because most of the -- many of the Schindler Jews I talked to, they sort of had -- they had sort of two views about Oskar. They knew he had in some ways a dark personality. But for the most part they adored him because of what he did to save their lives. They were essentially able to set aside some of his other personal flaws.

WHITFIELD: If you haven't already, have you already heard from Thomas Caneli (ph) or Steven Spielberg?

CROWE: I've indirectly heard through Caneli (ph) and through an article in the "Sydney Daily News". I've not heard back from Steven Spielberg other than an e-mail message that was sent to my publisher.

WHITFIELD: What did Caneli (ph) say?

CROWE: Caneli, basically, all he really was reacting to was "The New York Times" article which was just a very essential summary of the book. Basically what I'm telling people, if they are sort of reacting to that, at first read the book, then sort of draw your own conclusions.

WHITFIELD: All right, Professor David Crowe of Elan University in North Carolina although you're joining us from Boston. The book is "Oskar Schindler: The Untold Account of His Life, Wartime Activities, and the True Story Behind the List".

Thanks so much for joining us.

CROWE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Rooting out the insurgency in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me where the hidden stuff is around your house. The hidden bombs, the hidden bomb materials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: U.S. forces call him a master bomb maker. They've arrested a man who they say supplied and financed insurgent attacks, as CNN's Nic Robertson reports from Mosul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Struggling in his newly fitted flexi cuffs, the man U.S. troops believe to be a master bomb maker is lined up for identification.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quiet. Don't talk.

ROBERTSON: Six others also rounded up at this remote farmhouse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is that other missile?

ROBERTSON: Inside, a pile of seized weapons grows, as does the sense that after days of poor leads, good intelligence finally paid off.

1ST SGT. JOE DALLAE, TASK FORCE OF OLYMPIA: It's pretty obvious that these guys are supplying and financing terrorists just by the amount of cash and weapons that they have here. For example, a site for a mortar. I mean, you don't use mortars for home defense so, and then, of course, the RPG launcher. This is the kind of thing we face every day.

ROBERTSON: The suspects led in to have their photos taken with the evidence. Satisfaction they caught one the men they believe is trying to kill them.

CAPT. ROBERT LACKEY, TASK FORCE OLYMPIA: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These guys have been known IED car bomb personnel that have been operating in the since we've been here in the last two months. So it is a good score.

ROBERTSON: Then amid a search of documents, a chilling discovery. Papers indicating the suspect could have been on U.S. bases.

SGT. DON TUCKER, TASK FORCE OLYMPIA: With the weapons card like this, we just worry about if any secrets were given to the insurgency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me. If you cooperate now, things will be easier on you later.

ROBERTSON: Efforts to discover the suspected insurgent's secrets are stepped up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me where the hidden stuff is around your house. The hidden bombs. The hidden bomb materials.

ROBERTSON: No clues given, only denials of involvement in the insurgency. And he is marched off.

ROBERTSON (on camera): Actual intelligence is what commanders say will win the battle against insurgents. This times it seems the information was both accurate and timely.

ROBERTSON (voice over): For the soldiers, the satisfaction of locking up people suspected of attacking them. The payback for nights where nothing goes quite according to plan.

Nic Robertson, CNN, north of Mosul, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Refugees from the fighting in Fallujah are finally getting some relief. In the form of aid that they need. Trucks of supplies are stopped and distributed outside the city where U.S. forces maintain a tight grip. More than 200,000 civilians left the city prior to the recent battle for control of Fallujah. Troops are barring residents from returning until some basic services are restored like power, water and sewers.

Police in Germany have arrested a fourth man suspected of being involved in an alleged plot to attack Iraq's interim prime minister. Iyad Allawi was in Berlin yesterday for talks with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. The three other men already in custody were arrested just hours before that meeting. They went before a judge this morning. And they deny the charges against them. All four men are believed to belong to a group linked to Al Qaeda.

The man at the center of the Balco steroid scandal makes a shocking allegation about the national basketball league.

And now, Capitol Hill may want to use its power to clean up the world of sports. We'll tell you how next.

Plus, why Americans who turn to Canada in search of cheaper prescription drugs may one day have to find a new supplier.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: News across America now. Facing trial. An accused drug kingpin is in a Miami jail cell this afternoon after a flight from Columbine overnight. U.S. officials say Gilberto Rodriguez Orejuela was at one time responsible for at least 50 percent of the cocaine shipped into the states. Orejuela has his first court appearance Monday.

In Houston, Texas, an explosion set off this huge fire at a chemical plant. Authorities say the explosion could be felt nearly 25 miles away. Two firefighters suffered minor injuries. Five people near the plant were hospitalized for minor injuries. Federal officials are now investigating.

The cost of cleaning up, it could take $280 billion and up to 35 years to clean the nation's existing and undiscovered hazardous waste sites. That's according to an environmental protection agency report. The EPA stresses the numbers are only estimates.

So many Americans are buying their prescription drugs from Canada that it's creating a shortage north of the border. CNN financial correspondent Ali Velshi looks at the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL APPLEBAUGH, CANCER SURVIVOR: This is Tamoxifen (ph) for breast cancer. And I'm also finished with this.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At her home near Chicago, you can't blame cancer survivor Carol Applebaugh for buying drugs from Canada.

APPLEBAUGH: I pay $300 a month for my medications from Canada. I would pay $900 for the exact same medication here. At Walgreen's or Wal-Mart or Costco.

VELSHI: You can't blame governors in ten states who have set up Web sites to make it easier to buy drug from Canada. And you certainly can't blame Canadian Internet pharmacies that fill the orders.

DAVID ROBERTSON, TOTAL CARE PHARMACY: What we can do is we can help the people who are coming to us right now and looking for solutions. That volume of customers is not in excess of what Canada can handle.

VELSHI: But Canadian officials are saying enough is enough. This was Canada's health minister last month at Harvard University.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Canada cannot be the drugstore for the United States of America.

VELSHI: The problem is obvious -- there are 295 million Americans, only 32 million Canadians. Big drug companies are now limiting shipments to Canada because they know the drugs are being diverted back to the United States. And rural pharmacists in Canada are complaining they can't get the drugs that they need.

DR. JEFF POSTON, CANADIAN PHARCISTS ASSN: I believe the Canadian population has sympathy for the plight of the U.S. citizen, but the solution to that isn't to simply come north and raid our medicine's cabinet. The solution is to get a decent medicine's cabinet for yourself in the U.S.

VELSHI: The health minister now says it is possible that Canada will shut down these cross border pharmacies. That would close off a billion dollar a year pipeline that's used by hundreds of thousands of Americans.

ALI VELSHI, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: The steroid drug scandal has expanded to include some of the biggest names in sports including slugger Barry Bonds. Now one of the biggest players on Capitol Hill is responding. Senator John McCain is issuing a tough warning -- clean it up or else. McCain told "The Washington Post" he will introduce legislation requiring drug testing for all professional athletes. If major league baseball and team owners don't crack down by next month.

McCain's comments come after a report that San Francisco's Barry Bonds used substances supplied to him by a trainer, but Bonds' attorney says that his client believed he was taking a nutritional supplement, not steroids. On "20/20," the head of Balco, the maker of performance enhancing drugs allegedly given to elite athletes made this startling assertion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR CONTE, BALCO LAB FOUNDER: Let me tell you the biggest joke of all. You know what that is? I would guesstimate that more than 50 percent of the athletes are taking some form of anabolic steroids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baseball players?

CONTE: Absolutely, without a doubt. More than 50 percent. But I'll tell you something else they're doing that they've never addressed at all. And that's this. My guess is greater than 80 percent are taking some sort of a stimulant before each and every game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Huge numbers. Tune in to CNN tonight at 10:00 Eastern to hear what baseball slugger Jose Canseco has to say about the steroid scandal. And what are the legal ramifications of the steroid scandal? Our "Legal Roundtable" weighs in on the story right after a break. They're ready to go, ready to duke it out there.

Plus, the Spongebob inspired crime spree in the U.S. Can Burger King's whopper of a reward bring it to an end?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The jury trying to determine Scott Peterson's fate has the weekend off. Testimony in the case resumes Monday. Defense attorneys are trying to persuade jurors to sentence Peterson to life without parole instead of giving him the death penalty. The defense says it has about 20 more witnesses to call. Testimony is expected to wrap up early next week. Peterson was convicted last month of killing his wife and their unborn child.

The Peterson trial, the sports steroids scandal, there's a lot to talk about today in our "Legal Roundtable." With me now from Cleveland, civil right attorney and law professor Avery Friedman.

AVERY FREIDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Hello. And from New York, criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. Good to see you Richard.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENCE ATTORNEY: Hi Fredricka. Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's begin with the Scott Peterson case, since that end of the case is wrapping up before we expect to hear from jurors. Richard, you know, how much does it hurt perhaps Scott Peterson that Mark Geragos not only was there during the reading of the conviction, but he isn't the one who is questioning or leading this penalty phase questioning at all?

HERMAN: Well, first, I think it was a great recognition by Geragos that he just has no credibility with this jury. By him standing down and letting his assistant try to build some rapport with this jury is what Peterson needs at this point. This litigation phase, I spoke to my dear friend and a great attorney John Jacobs today confirmed that he is doing this textbook.

This is a textbook litigation phase, bringing in family, loved ones, friends. He is going to argue that lingering doubt instruction that this jury is going to get at the end, that this was a completely circumstantial case. You know Fredricka if you look outside your window, you see those Christmas lights, he's going to be hoping that one juror, just one juror will hold out for him and not allow the death penalty.

WHITFIELD: Well Avery you're shaking your head. I mean we have heard testimony from Scott Peterson's dad.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: They've used tapes, they've used photographs. But mostly depicting who Scott Peterson was as a child. What are we going to hear about his character as an adult? Doesn't that make a difference?

FRIEDMAN: I think it makes all the difference in the world, Fredricka. You know what? No matter what testimony we're going to hear, we've heard from brothers and sisters and other family members and friends. But Sharon Rocha, the mother of Laci, drove a stake through the heart of the defense.

And both -- actually, the men and women on that jury were crying. What we've seen in the defense, however, is a very dispassionate jury, listening carefully but really not delivering. And I think Pat Harris, who has now taken over the defense, has an awful lot of work to do. The difficulty is that this jury believes that Scott did it. So whatever mitigation we're going to hear, I think is going to have very, very little effect.

WHITFIELD: But then you wonder is it also safe to assume, which is always a dangerous thing to do, to assume anything that perhaps this jury may be somewhat sympathetic to Scott Peterson in that if you look at California history, very few who get the death penalty actually get put to death and die of old age?

FRIEDMAN: Actually, the jury doesn't know this. In fact, Fredricka, it's interesting. The sequestering deals with the jury in deliberation. The fact is they're out there right now. They may be watching television. And hopefully they'll disregard all this commentary. But in fact, if the jury knows that even if they grant death penalty, the reality is that Scott is not going to be subject to lethal injection. They're going to keep him in San Quentin for the rest of his life.

WHITFIELD: All right Richard real quick on that. You have a point?

HERMAN: Well the only point is that Geragos is dealing with the cards that he's been dealt. And that's just what it is, Fredricka. There's no magic formula here. He's putting on his family members, the friends. This is what he has to do. They're doing the very best they can with it.

WHITFIELD: OK we'll move on to the other case involving steroids and sports, not just baseball, but track and field and a whole lot of other professional sports that are coming under the microscope now. Jason Giambi he said before grand jurors, you know that he knowingly took steroids. But then you have Barry Bonds who says unknowingly he took steroids. Will this grand jury testimony be treated differently in the end? Avery.

FRIEDMAN: Well, ultimately and I think what's very significant is the key player here is Vic Conte. Now, contrary to all common sense and legal direction, Vic Conte went on ABC "20/20" and he made some incredibly incriminating remarks. If I were his lawyer, I would have said, so long, go get yourself another lawyer. A lot is driven by ego and trying to save the business. He's implicating 80 percent, as he said of professional athletes involving stimulants. We have a long way to go in the development of this case.

HERMAN: Fredricka, this Vic Conte is facing 35 separate counts of illegal steroid distribution in addition to money laundering. So this guy's future does not look too bright. We heard you talk earlier about the Senator McCain is going to clean it up, clean it up. What about the fact that the secret grand jury -- these minutes were put out to the public? What about the integrity of the judicial system?

FRIEDMAN: Whoa, blame the San Francisco chronicle. However they got that testimony, they got it.

HERMAN: There should be a special prosecutor appointed to look into this, to subpoena the U.S. attorney out there, to all of the assistants who participated in this and to the defense counsel.

FRIEDMAN: Oh, goodness.

HERMAN: This is the integrity of the judicial system requires that secret grand jury testimony be secret and not splashed out in the media.

WHITFIELD: And so far we're hearing a little bit -- so far we're just hearing a little bit of the testimony from Giambi and Bond, but who knows what may be coming next.

HERMAN: That Bonds testimony, if you look at his rookie baseball card and you look at what he looks like today, I mean, it's night and day, it is two different people. In addition, since the last two years when they really cracked down on steroids, there hasn't been one major league player who has hit over 50 home runs where he broke the record. He had 76 home runs. It's ridiculous.

WHITFIELD: OK Richard Herman and Avery Friedman. I know we're not done with this subject. This will be going on for a while. We don't know when the trial will be, if it indeed ends up going to trial.

HERMAN: Bonds is going to be set up for a purgery.

FRIEDMAN: We will see I doubt that.

WHITFIELD: We'll talk about that when it happens. Thanks so much guys.

HERMAN: Thank you.

FRIEMDNA: Nice to see you again. Take care.

WHITFIELD: The most wanted man in America. Is yellow, square and only wears pants. After the break, how a movie marketing campaign sparked a nationwide crime spree.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Te case of the sponge-napped Spongebob has been solved in Glen Falls, New York. Police say they got their man. And he confessed to grabbing the inflatable Bob from a Burger King roof top. Poor Squarepants, he was found deflated in a ditch, tossed aside like yesterday's whopper wrapper. The suspect must also like big macs because apparently police found a Ronald McDonald statue in his home as well.

The movie star kidnapping are great publicity for Nickelodeon, not to mention Burger King. So with that in mind our Jeanne Moos decided she's sponge worthy, too.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Put on an amber alert for a yellow sponge, blue eyes, two teeth last seen wearing tube socks and yes, square pants. Sponge Bob has been kidnapped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would have something against Sponge Bob?

SPONGEBOB: You're going to exterminate us?

MOOS: You may have seen him at the movies or at the Thanksgiving parade. You can find square pants on everything from boxers to Burger King, but in at least ten states more than a dozen inflatable Sponge Bobs have been kidnapped from Burger King rooftops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wouldn't think that it would happen in little old Sheboygan.

MOOS: From Sheboygan, Wisconsin to Baytown, Texas to Mananns (ph), New York folks are asking, Sponge Bob, where is he? In Little Falls, Minnisota Sponge nappers even left a ransom note. We have Sponge Bob, give us ten crabby patties, fries and milk shakes. Also give us McDonald's because your food -- never mind. Signed plankton. Plankton is the villain in the movie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm planning to rule the world.

SPONGEBOB: Good luck with that.

MOOS: It's not believed that sponge-nappings are connected, but is it coincidence that suddenly huge inflatable Sponge Bobs are popping up on eBay for as much as $300. One is described as having a small hole in it. Another says new in box. This is not the stolen unit. An Albany, New York TV station even aired a grainy surveillance tape from a nighttime abduction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then soon after a much clearer picture of the get away car, a gold colored SUV, look a Pathfinder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who took Sponge Bob, I mean come on get real.

MOOS: Put out an APB, make that an SOS don't confuse scrounge Bob for Sponge Bob. The idea of Squarepants caged up somewhere makes you want to freeze Sponge Bob. And now Burger King --

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired December 4, 2004 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2 pm on the East Coast, 1 am on the West Coast. Good afternoon, I'm Fredricka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour: Has it happened again? The latest on photos that appear to show Navy SEALs with detainees and the Navy's investigation.

An all-important ally in the war on terror visits the White House. What's Pakistan's position on the hunt for Osama bin Laden?

And intelligence reform, new doubts about whether Congress can pass the bill the 9/11 Commission says America needs.

Those stories in a moment. But first, a look at the headlines.

Luggage packed with explosives disappeared or was misplaced during a police training exercise at a Paris area airport. Now the search for the explosives stretches all the way to Los Angeles, where one of four U.S.-bound Air France planes landed. Still no sign of the explosives. Three other Air France planes were searched at JFK Airport in New York.

A splash landing for this cargo plane. It slammed into this lake surrounded by high-rise condos in the Miami area this morning. Police say the pilot and co-pilot on board the DC-3 escaped safely. No one on the ground or any of the boats on the lake was hurt.

Former Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega is recovering from a mild stroke suffered three days ago. Noriega's attorney says he is in stable condition and there appears to be no neurological damage. He is expected to return to a federal prison in the Miami area.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Up first this hour, the global war on terror and Pakistan's hunt for Osama bin Laden. Those were key topics up for discussion today when President Bush and Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf met at the White House.

We get the latest from CNN's Suzanne Malveaux at the Executive Mansion.

Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, here's how it all unfolded.

We're told that Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf was in Latin America and headed to Great Britain and he called President Bush to ask if he could stop by and congratulate him on his re-election win. The president said yes, so they got together on a rare Saturday session in the Oval Office earlier today.

Of course, as you know, Pakistan is really one of the most critical allies in the war on terror. It helped orchestrate and rout out the Taliban in neighboring Afghanistan. Both leaders praising each other for the cooperative efforts in the war on terror but also addressing a number of concerns as well.

One of those concerns is Pakistan's role in the hunt for Osama bin Laden. It was recently that military leader for Pakistan said they were pulling out of a particular region, no longer looking for Osama bin Laden in that region. But President Bush today did not express any kind of concern about that. Rather, the two leaders emphasized their cooperation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: His army has been incredibly active and very brave in southern was Waziristan, flushing out an enemy that thought they had found safe haven. His army has suffered casualties, and for that we want to thank their loved ones for the sacrifice that their family has made.

The president has been a determined leader to bring to justice not only people like Osama bin Laden, but to bring to justice those who would inflict harm and pain on his own people.

GEN. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: We discussed terrorism in its entire complexity. And within that, hunting every terrorist was discussed, of course. The operation against terrorists in Pakistan, on our borders, was discussed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Musharraf was also looking for assurance from President Bush that he would continue to work hard on the Israeli/Palestinian negotiations, the conflict, try to find a resolution. That's exactly what President Bush did. He made a public statement about that saying he would make it a priority of his administration.

But Musharraf did not get an assurance that he would be able to buy some weapons from the United States including surveillance military planes, F-16s, that Pakistan has been desiring for some time now. It's not expected that there was going to be an announcement on that. But certainly both administrations are looking at that option, Fred?

WHITFIELD: And, Suzanne, as an extension of the war on terror, the president is really trying to put some pressure on Congress to get to the bottom of passing this 9/11 intelligence reform bill. To what extent is he applying the pressure? I know he was on his radio address earlier today. But how is he reaching out to those members of Congress?

MALVEAUX: Absolutely, Fred, this is really being called a full- court press by the White House to get that intelligence reform bill passed in the next couple of weeks of course, before the lame duck session is over.

One thing that the president has been working on, we expect that as early as Monday that letter will be delivered. It will be a letter to Congress. He's been working on the language saying, Look, we recognize some of the Pentagon's concerns about transfer of power, about continuity of power and authority, those type of issues, but at the same time we need to make some major changes when it comes to the intelligence community. That's something he'll be sending to those members.

He's also been on the phone making calls to the House and Senate Republican leadership trying to push this through. And really, Fred, it is seen as a major credibility test for this president whether or not he has the leadership to actually lead his own party to back his legislation.

WHITFIELD: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, at the White House, thanks so much.

Be sure to join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow at Noon Eastern for a CNN exclusive. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf will join Wolf on CNN's "Late Edition".

Well now to Iraq, where it's been a deadly day for U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police. Insurgents set off twin bombings in the green zone area of Baghdad. Elsewhere, militants used roadside bombings to create chaos. CNN's Karl Penhaul has more from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN INT'L CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Smoke billows skyward minutes after two car bombs explode. Seconds later you can hear the bullets fly as insurgents trade fire with Iraqi guards manning two checkpoints in the fortified green zone.

Iraqi officials say the main target was just opposite, a district police station. As the ambulances shuttle away the dead and injured, it's clear that police have borne the brunt of the blast. It has a busy few days at Baghdad's Yarmook (ph) Hospital after a wave of guerrilla strikes across the capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were standing outside when we saw the car drive up with a young man. Suddenly it exploded. Is it a process that took no longer than 10 seconds. Then everybody was dead in the street.

PENHAUL: Insurgents seem to be increasingly targeting Iraqi security forces instead of better-equipped and better-trained coalition troops. Mushpak Tal Ali (ph) joined the police nine days ago. One of the riskiest jobs in the country right now. The pay, roughly $220 a month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The hunger was killing my family. We have no work. What are we supposed to do? Steal?

PENHAUL: He's been watching medics bandage up his wounded buddies all morning or wheeling out others who died. He says he had a premonition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just this morning we were thinking that today something was going to happen to us. I had a dream last night that I was passing around empty glasses. If they were full, I would have died.

PENHAUL: Ali's leg has been ripped apart. Looking at the stretchers of blood in the yard, it could have been worse. Each day since Ali began his new job, he kisses his wife good-bye and warns her he may not make it home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I tell her that if I die, she should get married again. Where else would she go? Back to her family? It's better for her to marry.

PENHAUL: Insurgents struck elsewhere Saturday. Hitting a military convoy and killing a U.S. soldier with a roadside bomb in Baqubah. Another U.S. soldier was killed when rebels bombed trucks in east Baghdad.

(On camera): As the countdown to the January 30th elections continues, government officials believe the resistance fighters whom they described as desperadoes will step up their sabotage campaign. Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: We have confirmation now of another American casualties in Iraq within the past 24 hours. A military spokesman says two U.S. soldiers were killed and five wounded yesterday in a car bombing. It happened at the Treble (ph) border crossing between Jordan and Iraq.

There's been bloodshed in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul today. A suicide car bomber blew up his vehicle beside a bus carrying Kurdish militiamen. Authorities say at least seven were killed.

Prisoners and photos, the Navy is investigating Internet photos that appear to show Navy SEALs posing with Iraqi detainees. CNN's Kimberly Osias is live, from Washington, with more details -- Kimberly.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Fredricka.

Well, the photos may not show a clear case of abuse, but Navy officials say they do display poor judgment at a minimum. They're now conducting a preliminary investigation. Who exactly took the pictures is unclear at this point.

There are about 200 of them in all. Only a few of which are now drawing attention. Date stamps on the photos indicate May 2003; several months before the far more brutal photos from Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison were taken.

According to the Associated Press, the pictures were placed on the Internet by serviceman's wife, who just returned from duty. That site is now only accessible by a password, according to senior Navy official.

Take a look at the photos, you are looking at them now.

One shows a detainee lying face up on the ground with a boot at his chest. Another shows a detainee appearing to be grabbed forcefully at the neck. Others show some apparently with blood.

What all this means exactly is difficult to say right now because Navy officials are still investigating the context in which the photos were taken. And that context is a critical distinction between this and Abu Ghraib.

Some former officials say this instance appears to be not in a prison, but rather at a point of capture. And different standards apply. Navy specialist Jeff Bender says the matter is under investigation.

He also adds "There are strict Navy regulations prohibiting the photographing of detainees for other than official purposes. Additionally, prior to deployment, Navy special warfare personnel are instructed that taking unofficial photographs of POWs and detainees is prohibited."

Military attorneys say this incident is vastly different from Abu Ghraib and that the photos are inconclusive. Sources say if the preliminary investigation suggests criminal wrongdoing, services will be called in. And, Fredricka, as of now, that has not happened.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kimberly Osias in Washington. Thanks very much.

The political battle over intelligence reform. President Bush says he supports the legislation. Will it be enough to get Congress to act on it. We'll talk with our Political Analyst Bill Schneider about the delay.

Plus this ...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Canada cannot be the drugstore for the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Why the nation's neighbor to the north may be saying enough is enough when it comes to Americans searching for cheaper prescription drugs.

And still to come, why America's latest crime spree involves a yellow sponge in pants.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Lawmakers return to Washington Monday where they face a renewed battle over the intelligence reform bill. In his weekly radio address today, President Bush added a sense of urgency, pressing for passage next week and insisting the reform act would make America safer and help defeat the terrorist threat. Here's more from White House Spokesman Scott McClellan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: The president expressed earlier this week in Canada that he hopes we can get it done next week. We continue to be in very close contact with congressional leaders, both the president and the vice president and members of the senior staff, to get this legislation moving forward.

I've seen a number of comments from congressional leaders saying that they are hopeful that it can get done next week as well. We're continuing to work through some of the remaining issues, but I think the president's views are very clear. Secretary Rumsfeld, General Myers have expressed their support for moving forward on this as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The Pentagon, along with some House Republicans, oppose the bill. And just yesterday Republican Senator John Warner, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, says he shares some of their concerns. Here to discuss the politics is CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider.

Good to see you, Bill.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right on this intelligence reform, some of the hang-ups have been about immigration as well as the chain of command. Have these issues been resolved? Is congress any closer to finding some compromise to make everyone happy on this bill?

SCHNEIDER: I think the president is trying to find some compromise. He's trying to get some changes made to the bill to reassure members of Congress particularly in his own party that it would not in any way endanger the intelligence used to protect troops in the field. That's the number one consideration.

I haven't heard yet of any real compromise on the immigration part of it, on the issue of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, but they're probably working on that, too.

The big issue here is a very straightforward one. In the House, the Republican leadership is essentially following a rule that says they do not want to pass this bill. Look, they could pass it tomorrow, they've got the votes. But they don't have a majority of Republicans in favor of it because there are many reservations among Republicans.

They don't want to pass this bill and make the passage of the bill attributable to Democratic votes. They say it has to not just have the majority of Congress but the majority of Republicans in Congress for them to put it to a vote. That's a fairly new rule. And it's different.

Many times Bill Clinton put controversial issues like NAFTA up for a vote and he didn't get most of his party to support them. And they were passed because of Republicans. Now the Republicans in control of Congress solidly are following a different rule.

WHITFIELD: And at least two Republicans who were the holdouts on this whole issue have had a lot of power in delaying the passage of this. They, too, will be among those who are receiving a letter, that Suzanne Malveaux was reporting on earlier today that will be coming from President Bush saying this is the kind of bill that we need in order to keep this country secure and safe. Will that be effective enough?

SCHNEIDER: Look, if it comes directly from the president, depends how actively he gets involved. He's shown an inclination now to become activity involved. The radio address, he's sending letters, he's trying to reach compromises on some of the key issues. But his clout, his stature is at stake here. He's got to get this bill passed.

It will only happen if he personally intercedes with members of Congress of his own party. I repeat, the votes are there. But in order to get the leadership of Congress, the Republican leaders to put it up for a vote, he's got to assure them that the Republican votes are there.

WHITFIELD: OK. And let's talk about the Cabinet now. You've got eight of 15 Cabinet members who have either stepped down or have been replaced. Is this unusual when you're talking about a second term? They're talking about Cabinet positions that are very stressful and tough. How unusual is it going into a second term that the president may replenish or replace the majority or more than half of his Cabinet?

SCHNEIDER: That's not unusual. What's unusual is that it's happening so quickly, that it's happening so quickly after the election. It usually doesn't happen this fast. It usually happens over a series of months.

But in this case, it's happening very rapidly. Some say it's because this administration is run by businesspeople. George Bush has an MBA. This is the business model. You want to get a fresh start, so you want new faces, you want fresh blood in there. We know this president has indicated he wants to put some stress on his domestic agenda, particularly tax reform and Social Security reform.

Those are going to be his top priorities. He wants to get a new team in place. In business, this isn't unusual. It is just happening faster than usual in politics.

WHITFIELD: A lot of pressure being put on the position of Homeland Security, the new nominee Kerik coming from a New York City post and now being thrust into a Washington post. What's that transition going to be like?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the question people are asking is how much does he know about managing an enormous bureaucracy. I believe the Homeland Security is the second largest department after the Defense Department. It is a huge management job.

While he was police commissioner of New York City, which is no small thing, this is a whole new world. He's got an enormous bureaucracy. He's got to deal with members of Congress, who as we see in the intelligence bill, are very sensitive to issues of turf, on issues of what agencies will be responsible for.

When an agency feels that its turf is being violated, that it's not being given due consideration, they go right to Congress. It becomes all about politics. Bernard Kerik's political skills and management skills are not entirely tested.

WHITFIELD: All right, Bill Schneider, thanks for joining us.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

WHITFIELD: Washington State's governor's race goes back for another recount. State Democrats came up with the money yesterday to foot the bill. Just 42 votes separate leading Republican Dino Rossi from Democrat Christine Gregory. This time, the recount will be done by hand. And it is expected to begin on Wednesday.

There's leftover election business in Louisiana as well, as voters again head to the polls. Runoffs are being held today for two U.S. House seats. The runoff is being held because none of the candidates received more than 50 percent of the vote back in November.

Steven Spielberg won an Oscar bringing his inspirational story to the big screen. But did "Schindler's List" really tell the whole story? I'll talk with the author of a new book that paints a different picture of Oskar Schindler.

Find out how Senator John McCain wants Congress to get involved in the ever widening steroid drug scandal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN MOVIE CLIP, "SCHINDLER'S LIST ")

I'd make sure that it is known that the company is in business. I'd see that it had a certain panache, that's an angle that, not to work, not to work, presentation.

(END MOVIE CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Steven Spielberg's Academy Award winning film told the story of the German factory owner Oskar Schindler. Schindler saved hundreds of Jews from the Nazis concentration camps but was Spielberg's movie on the mark? There's a less flattering portrayal in the book, "Oskar Schindler: The Untold Account of His Life, Wartime Activities, and the True Story Behind the List". The author is David Crow. And he joins us from Boston. He's a history professor in at Elan University in North Carolina.

Good to see you, professor.

DAVID CROWE, AUTHOR, "OSKAR SCHINDLER": Good afternoon.

WHITFIELD: Well, is it fair to say that you present the antithesis of the portrayal that we know of Oskar Schindler in Steven Spielberg's movie?

CROWE: No, not really. As a matter of fact, I think Schindler was an even greater hero than portrayed by Spielberg.

WHITFIELD: In what way?

CROWE: Well, I think that you need to look not so much at a singular act like the creation of the Schindler's list, but instead really look at the fact that Oskar invested three years of his time and his money in a very brave and bold effort to save the lives of almost 1100 Jews.

WHITFIELD: But then isn't it correct in your book you say he wasn't the hero that provided the list of Jews whose lives were spared. Instead, you say for one, there wasn't a list at all, and you say he was a charming man, a drinker, a womanizer, none of which are usually flattering terms? What are your accounts based on?

CROWE: Well, basically, I was given access to all of Oskar's vast letters and other personal letters, and documents that I found really all over -- literally all over the world in Germany, Israel, the Czech Republic and things like that.

I think the point of the story, what I think some commentators have done in looking at the book they've sort of gotten the sense that the book, because it contradicts the fictional story in Spielberg's film about the creation of the list, that somehow that is negating the deeds that Oskar actually did during the Holocaust.

WHITFIELD: What inspired you to write the book? What came first? The research that uncovered some of these interesting tidbits, that you thought? Or was it an intrigue that you had about him in the first place?

CROWE: I think the intrigue came from the fact that I saw the film and here you suddenly have appearing before us a moral touchstone for the Holocaust. And yet other than Thomas Caneli's (ph) historical novel and Steven Spielberg's film, there was actually no historical work documenting it. So I basically went into this biography with a clean slate.

And either one of two things could have come out of it. Either it could have totally contradicted historically what Spielberg said in terms of Oskar's heroism or it could have made him an even bigger hero.

One thing I should add is that the womanizing and the drinking really is not an integral part of the story. I think it was perhaps overdone in the film. But in reality and the totality of Oskar's life story, which this biography is about, the drinking and the womanizing is really not a major concern, a major issue.

WHITFIELD: So what kind of reaction have you received?

CROWE: Well, for the most part, it's been excellent. Scholars I've talked to have praised the book. I've heard from a number of Schindler Jews that I worked intimately with that said it was right on the money. So it's been, for the most part, very, very positive.

WHITFIELD: Are there any who have expressed that, you know, you kind of deflated what they thought to be, you know, nothing but the heroic terms in which they think of Oskar Schindler?

CROWE: No, I don't think so because most of the -- many of the Schindler Jews I talked to, they sort of had -- they had sort of two views about Oskar. They knew he had in some ways a dark personality. But for the most part they adored him because of what he did to save their lives. They were essentially able to set aside some of his other personal flaws.

WHITFIELD: If you haven't already, have you already heard from Thomas Caneli (ph) or Steven Spielberg?

CROWE: I've indirectly heard through Caneli (ph) and through an article in the "Sydney Daily News". I've not heard back from Steven Spielberg other than an e-mail message that was sent to my publisher.

WHITFIELD: What did Caneli (ph) say?

CROWE: Caneli, basically, all he really was reacting to was "The New York Times" article which was just a very essential summary of the book. Basically what I'm telling people, if they are sort of reacting to that, at first read the book, then sort of draw your own conclusions.

WHITFIELD: All right, Professor David Crowe of Elan University in North Carolina although you're joining us from Boston. The book is "Oskar Schindler: The Untold Account of His Life, Wartime Activities, and the True Story Behind the List".

Thanks so much for joining us.

CROWE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Rooting out the insurgency in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me where the hidden stuff is around your house. The hidden bombs, the hidden bomb materials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: U.S. forces call him a master bomb maker. They've arrested a man who they say supplied and financed insurgent attacks, as CNN's Nic Robertson reports from Mosul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Struggling in his newly fitted flexi cuffs, the man U.S. troops believe to be a master bomb maker is lined up for identification.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quiet. Don't talk.

ROBERTSON: Six others also rounded up at this remote farmhouse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is that other missile?

ROBERTSON: Inside, a pile of seized weapons grows, as does the sense that after days of poor leads, good intelligence finally paid off.

1ST SGT. JOE DALLAE, TASK FORCE OF OLYMPIA: It's pretty obvious that these guys are supplying and financing terrorists just by the amount of cash and weapons that they have here. For example, a site for a mortar. I mean, you don't use mortars for home defense so, and then, of course, the RPG launcher. This is the kind of thing we face every day.

ROBERTSON: The suspects led in to have their photos taken with the evidence. Satisfaction they caught one the men they believe is trying to kill them.

CAPT. ROBERT LACKEY, TASK FORCE OLYMPIA: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These guys have been known IED car bomb personnel that have been operating in the since we've been here in the last two months. So it is a good score.

ROBERTSON: Then amid a search of documents, a chilling discovery. Papers indicating the suspect could have been on U.S. bases.

SGT. DON TUCKER, TASK FORCE OLYMPIA: With the weapons card like this, we just worry about if any secrets were given to the insurgency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me. If you cooperate now, things will be easier on you later.

ROBERTSON: Efforts to discover the suspected insurgent's secrets are stepped up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me where the hidden stuff is around your house. The hidden bombs. The hidden bomb materials.

ROBERTSON: No clues given, only denials of involvement in the insurgency. And he is marched off.

ROBERTSON (on camera): Actual intelligence is what commanders say will win the battle against insurgents. This times it seems the information was both accurate and timely.

ROBERTSON (voice over): For the soldiers, the satisfaction of locking up people suspected of attacking them. The payback for nights where nothing goes quite according to plan.

Nic Robertson, CNN, north of Mosul, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Refugees from the fighting in Fallujah are finally getting some relief. In the form of aid that they need. Trucks of supplies are stopped and distributed outside the city where U.S. forces maintain a tight grip. More than 200,000 civilians left the city prior to the recent battle for control of Fallujah. Troops are barring residents from returning until some basic services are restored like power, water and sewers.

Police in Germany have arrested a fourth man suspected of being involved in an alleged plot to attack Iraq's interim prime minister. Iyad Allawi was in Berlin yesterday for talks with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. The three other men already in custody were arrested just hours before that meeting. They went before a judge this morning. And they deny the charges against them. All four men are believed to belong to a group linked to Al Qaeda.

The man at the center of the Balco steroid scandal makes a shocking allegation about the national basketball league.

And now, Capitol Hill may want to use its power to clean up the world of sports. We'll tell you how next.

Plus, why Americans who turn to Canada in search of cheaper prescription drugs may one day have to find a new supplier.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: News across America now. Facing trial. An accused drug kingpin is in a Miami jail cell this afternoon after a flight from Columbine overnight. U.S. officials say Gilberto Rodriguez Orejuela was at one time responsible for at least 50 percent of the cocaine shipped into the states. Orejuela has his first court appearance Monday.

In Houston, Texas, an explosion set off this huge fire at a chemical plant. Authorities say the explosion could be felt nearly 25 miles away. Two firefighters suffered minor injuries. Five people near the plant were hospitalized for minor injuries. Federal officials are now investigating.

The cost of cleaning up, it could take $280 billion and up to 35 years to clean the nation's existing and undiscovered hazardous waste sites. That's according to an environmental protection agency report. The EPA stresses the numbers are only estimates.

So many Americans are buying their prescription drugs from Canada that it's creating a shortage north of the border. CNN financial correspondent Ali Velshi looks at the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL APPLEBAUGH, CANCER SURVIVOR: This is Tamoxifen (ph) for breast cancer. And I'm also finished with this.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At her home near Chicago, you can't blame cancer survivor Carol Applebaugh for buying drugs from Canada.

APPLEBAUGH: I pay $300 a month for my medications from Canada. I would pay $900 for the exact same medication here. At Walgreen's or Wal-Mart or Costco.

VELSHI: You can't blame governors in ten states who have set up Web sites to make it easier to buy drug from Canada. And you certainly can't blame Canadian Internet pharmacies that fill the orders.

DAVID ROBERTSON, TOTAL CARE PHARMACY: What we can do is we can help the people who are coming to us right now and looking for solutions. That volume of customers is not in excess of what Canada can handle.

VELSHI: But Canadian officials are saying enough is enough. This was Canada's health minister last month at Harvard University.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Canada cannot be the drugstore for the United States of America.

VELSHI: The problem is obvious -- there are 295 million Americans, only 32 million Canadians. Big drug companies are now limiting shipments to Canada because they know the drugs are being diverted back to the United States. And rural pharmacists in Canada are complaining they can't get the drugs that they need.

DR. JEFF POSTON, CANADIAN PHARCISTS ASSN: I believe the Canadian population has sympathy for the plight of the U.S. citizen, but the solution to that isn't to simply come north and raid our medicine's cabinet. The solution is to get a decent medicine's cabinet for yourself in the U.S.

VELSHI: The health minister now says it is possible that Canada will shut down these cross border pharmacies. That would close off a billion dollar a year pipeline that's used by hundreds of thousands of Americans.

ALI VELSHI, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: The steroid drug scandal has expanded to include some of the biggest names in sports including slugger Barry Bonds. Now one of the biggest players on Capitol Hill is responding. Senator John McCain is issuing a tough warning -- clean it up or else. McCain told "The Washington Post" he will introduce legislation requiring drug testing for all professional athletes. If major league baseball and team owners don't crack down by next month.

McCain's comments come after a report that San Francisco's Barry Bonds used substances supplied to him by a trainer, but Bonds' attorney says that his client believed he was taking a nutritional supplement, not steroids. On "20/20," the head of Balco, the maker of performance enhancing drugs allegedly given to elite athletes made this startling assertion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR CONTE, BALCO LAB FOUNDER: Let me tell you the biggest joke of all. You know what that is? I would guesstimate that more than 50 percent of the athletes are taking some form of anabolic steroids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baseball players?

CONTE: Absolutely, without a doubt. More than 50 percent. But I'll tell you something else they're doing that they've never addressed at all. And that's this. My guess is greater than 80 percent are taking some sort of a stimulant before each and every game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Huge numbers. Tune in to CNN tonight at 10:00 Eastern to hear what baseball slugger Jose Canseco has to say about the steroid scandal. And what are the legal ramifications of the steroid scandal? Our "Legal Roundtable" weighs in on the story right after a break. They're ready to go, ready to duke it out there.

Plus, the Spongebob inspired crime spree in the U.S. Can Burger King's whopper of a reward bring it to an end?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The jury trying to determine Scott Peterson's fate has the weekend off. Testimony in the case resumes Monday. Defense attorneys are trying to persuade jurors to sentence Peterson to life without parole instead of giving him the death penalty. The defense says it has about 20 more witnesses to call. Testimony is expected to wrap up early next week. Peterson was convicted last month of killing his wife and their unborn child.

The Peterson trial, the sports steroids scandal, there's a lot to talk about today in our "Legal Roundtable." With me now from Cleveland, civil right attorney and law professor Avery Friedman.

AVERY FREIDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Hello. And from New York, criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. Good to see you Richard.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENCE ATTORNEY: Hi Fredricka. Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's begin with the Scott Peterson case, since that end of the case is wrapping up before we expect to hear from jurors. Richard, you know, how much does it hurt perhaps Scott Peterson that Mark Geragos not only was there during the reading of the conviction, but he isn't the one who is questioning or leading this penalty phase questioning at all?

HERMAN: Well, first, I think it was a great recognition by Geragos that he just has no credibility with this jury. By him standing down and letting his assistant try to build some rapport with this jury is what Peterson needs at this point. This litigation phase, I spoke to my dear friend and a great attorney John Jacobs today confirmed that he is doing this textbook.

This is a textbook litigation phase, bringing in family, loved ones, friends. He is going to argue that lingering doubt instruction that this jury is going to get at the end, that this was a completely circumstantial case. You know Fredricka if you look outside your window, you see those Christmas lights, he's going to be hoping that one juror, just one juror will hold out for him and not allow the death penalty.

WHITFIELD: Well Avery you're shaking your head. I mean we have heard testimony from Scott Peterson's dad.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: They've used tapes, they've used photographs. But mostly depicting who Scott Peterson was as a child. What are we going to hear about his character as an adult? Doesn't that make a difference?

FRIEDMAN: I think it makes all the difference in the world, Fredricka. You know what? No matter what testimony we're going to hear, we've heard from brothers and sisters and other family members and friends. But Sharon Rocha, the mother of Laci, drove a stake through the heart of the defense.

And both -- actually, the men and women on that jury were crying. What we've seen in the defense, however, is a very dispassionate jury, listening carefully but really not delivering. And I think Pat Harris, who has now taken over the defense, has an awful lot of work to do. The difficulty is that this jury believes that Scott did it. So whatever mitigation we're going to hear, I think is going to have very, very little effect.

WHITFIELD: But then you wonder is it also safe to assume, which is always a dangerous thing to do, to assume anything that perhaps this jury may be somewhat sympathetic to Scott Peterson in that if you look at California history, very few who get the death penalty actually get put to death and die of old age?

FRIEDMAN: Actually, the jury doesn't know this. In fact, Fredricka, it's interesting. The sequestering deals with the jury in deliberation. The fact is they're out there right now. They may be watching television. And hopefully they'll disregard all this commentary. But in fact, if the jury knows that even if they grant death penalty, the reality is that Scott is not going to be subject to lethal injection. They're going to keep him in San Quentin for the rest of his life.

WHITFIELD: All right Richard real quick on that. You have a point?

HERMAN: Well the only point is that Geragos is dealing with the cards that he's been dealt. And that's just what it is, Fredricka. There's no magic formula here. He's putting on his family members, the friends. This is what he has to do. They're doing the very best they can with it.

WHITFIELD: OK we'll move on to the other case involving steroids and sports, not just baseball, but track and field and a whole lot of other professional sports that are coming under the microscope now. Jason Giambi he said before grand jurors, you know that he knowingly took steroids. But then you have Barry Bonds who says unknowingly he took steroids. Will this grand jury testimony be treated differently in the end? Avery.

FRIEDMAN: Well, ultimately and I think what's very significant is the key player here is Vic Conte. Now, contrary to all common sense and legal direction, Vic Conte went on ABC "20/20" and he made some incredibly incriminating remarks. If I were his lawyer, I would have said, so long, go get yourself another lawyer. A lot is driven by ego and trying to save the business. He's implicating 80 percent, as he said of professional athletes involving stimulants. We have a long way to go in the development of this case.

HERMAN: Fredricka, this Vic Conte is facing 35 separate counts of illegal steroid distribution in addition to money laundering. So this guy's future does not look too bright. We heard you talk earlier about the Senator McCain is going to clean it up, clean it up. What about the fact that the secret grand jury -- these minutes were put out to the public? What about the integrity of the judicial system?

FRIEDMAN: Whoa, blame the San Francisco chronicle. However they got that testimony, they got it.

HERMAN: There should be a special prosecutor appointed to look into this, to subpoena the U.S. attorney out there, to all of the assistants who participated in this and to the defense counsel.

FRIEDMAN: Oh, goodness.

HERMAN: This is the integrity of the judicial system requires that secret grand jury testimony be secret and not splashed out in the media.

WHITFIELD: And so far we're hearing a little bit -- so far we're just hearing a little bit of the testimony from Giambi and Bond, but who knows what may be coming next.

HERMAN: That Bonds testimony, if you look at his rookie baseball card and you look at what he looks like today, I mean, it's night and day, it is two different people. In addition, since the last two years when they really cracked down on steroids, there hasn't been one major league player who has hit over 50 home runs where he broke the record. He had 76 home runs. It's ridiculous.

WHITFIELD: OK Richard Herman and Avery Friedman. I know we're not done with this subject. This will be going on for a while. We don't know when the trial will be, if it indeed ends up going to trial.

HERMAN: Bonds is going to be set up for a purgery.

FRIEDMAN: We will see I doubt that.

WHITFIELD: We'll talk about that when it happens. Thanks so much guys.

HERMAN: Thank you.

FRIEMDNA: Nice to see you again. Take care.

WHITFIELD: The most wanted man in America. Is yellow, square and only wears pants. After the break, how a movie marketing campaign sparked a nationwide crime spree.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Te case of the sponge-napped Spongebob has been solved in Glen Falls, New York. Police say they got their man. And he confessed to grabbing the inflatable Bob from a Burger King roof top. Poor Squarepants, he was found deflated in a ditch, tossed aside like yesterday's whopper wrapper. The suspect must also like big macs because apparently police found a Ronald McDonald statue in his home as well.

The movie star kidnapping are great publicity for Nickelodeon, not to mention Burger King. So with that in mind our Jeanne Moos decided she's sponge worthy, too.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Put on an amber alert for a yellow sponge, blue eyes, two teeth last seen wearing tube socks and yes, square pants. Sponge Bob has been kidnapped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would have something against Sponge Bob?

SPONGEBOB: You're going to exterminate us?

MOOS: You may have seen him at the movies or at the Thanksgiving parade. You can find square pants on everything from boxers to Burger King, but in at least ten states more than a dozen inflatable Sponge Bobs have been kidnapped from Burger King rooftops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wouldn't think that it would happen in little old Sheboygan.

MOOS: From Sheboygan, Wisconsin to Baytown, Texas to Mananns (ph), New York folks are asking, Sponge Bob, where is he? In Little Falls, Minnisota Sponge nappers even left a ransom note. We have Sponge Bob, give us ten crabby patties, fries and milk shakes. Also give us McDonald's because your food -- never mind. Signed plankton. Plankton is the villain in the movie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm planning to rule the world.

SPONGEBOB: Good luck with that.

MOOS: It's not believed that sponge-nappings are connected, but is it coincidence that suddenly huge inflatable Sponge Bobs are popping up on eBay for as much as $300. One is described as having a small hole in it. Another says new in box. This is not the stolen unit. An Albany, New York TV station even aired a grainy surveillance tape from a nighttime abduction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then soon after a much clearer picture of the get away car, a gold colored SUV, look a Pathfinder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who took Sponge Bob, I mean come on get real.

MOOS: Put out an APB, make that an SOS don't confuse scrounge Bob for Sponge Bob. The idea of Squarepants caged up somewhere makes you want to freeze Sponge Bob. And now Burger King --

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