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CNN Live Sunday

Coast Guard Struggles To Maintain Port Security; Unabomber Brother Fights To Abolish Death Penalty In New York; Ohioans, Jesse Jackson, Fight For Statewide Recount In Ohio

Aired December 05, 2004 - 18:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Here is what's happening right now in the news. The U.S. military says gunmen have killed 17 Iraqis and injured 13 others. They were arriving at a weapons dump in Tikrit and that dump was supposed to be controlled by coalition forces. A spokesman says the workers were traveling by bus when the gunmen opened fire.
And on to politics here in this country, Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is predicting Congress will have an intelligence reform bill by midweek. That bill had enough votes to pass before Thanksgiving break, but House Speaker Dennis Hastert would not let it go to the floor without a majority of Republicans supporting it.

A source familiar with the Michael Jackson molestation trial says that sheriff's investigators have now taken DNA, a DNA sample, a swab of Michael Jackson's mouth. Jackson returned to the ranch to assist in that. We're going to have much more on this later this hour.

I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Straight ahead this hour, hundreds of Canadian airport security uniforms and badges go missing and our question tonight, has security been jeopardized?

And one month after the presidential election, Ohio is still trying to figure out who won. Believe it or not we're talking of a possible recount. More on that in a moment.

And then inside a soldier's mind. We're going to take you to the front lines in our special segment in Falluja.

Right now we are going to begin with fresh fears about protecting America from terrorism. President Bush and the families of 9/11 victims are urging Congress to pass legislation reforming the intelligence community even as glitches and security problems in other countries are beginning it be revealed today. So what is that going to mean for us right here in the United States? We are going to start with Kathleen Koch. She's at the White House and talk about the mounting pressure to get the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission passed into law. Why is there fresh optimism that we may actually get intelligence reform, Kathleen?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you said, Senator Frist, Senate majority leader, is predicting that he believes if they're going to have success it could come by midweek, but it's very interesting battle for President Bush who initially opposed even creating the 9/11 Commission. He now says he firmly supports the intelligence reform bill that does implement its recommendations but getting it past is shaping up as a test of his presidential powers of persuasion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH (voice-over): Call it a push but not a shove as Congress gets back to work this week, President Bush persuading Republicans to back the intelligence reform bill.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning, everybody!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning Mr. President!

KOCH: Mr. Bush lobbied for it in his weekend radio address. He's phoned individual lawmakers but the top Senate Democrat is challenging the president to put more political capital where his mouth is.

SEN. HENRY REID (D) INCOMING MINORITY LEADER: He has a mandate. Let him pull a few bucks out of that pocket of mandate and give it to the House and Senate and say here's part of my mandate. I want this legislation to pass.

KOCH: Bill action is being held up because of the objections of some House Republicans. Some want to include tougher immigration measures. Other worry troops could be put in danger by restructuring plans, giving authority to a new national intelligence director. Seventeen sent a letter to Speaker Dennis Hastert Friday the same day the chairman of the Senate Armed Service Committee in a statement voiced his concerns about speedy military access to intelligence.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R) MAJORITY LEADER: There are a lot of people who have questions because we're talking about safety and security. We're talking about that soldier on the battlefield.

KOCH: Opponents warn they're standing their ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While the Pentagon has to fall in when the president gives an order, the Congress does not have an obligation to fall in when the commander in chief gives an order.

KOCH: But some believe the stalemate has more to do with politics and committee chairman losing power.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Despite the rhetoric, this is all about power which has got to do with money here in Washington. Whoever controls the budget controls the power and that's what this is all about.

KOCH: Congress is scheduled to recess this week for the holidays though it could decide to extend the session. Many believe inaction now would kill the measure.

SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D) WEST VIRGINIA: It would be history. That would be a terrible mistake in the middle of a global war on terrorism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Some say it would be a defeat for President Bush that could embolden Congress and endanger other initiatives in the Bush agenda. Carol?

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Kathleen Koch live at the White House.

We're going to stay on this issue of national security but we're going to take a look what's happening up in Canada. You go to the airport, you see the airport screeners. They check you to make sure you're not carrying any weapons. Well 1100 airport screener uniforms and employee badges in Canada are now missing. The CBCs David Common broke the story of the missing uniforms. He's joining me now from Montreal Quebec with more details. David, your story is making news itself and it looks like there might be an investigation now?

DAVID COMMON, CBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed it is an investigation and of course, usually at Canadian airports it's passengers who are facing scrutiny. But a bit of a role reversal this weekend. We're now seeing airline and airport screeners who are facing their own kind of scrutiny after an embarrassing and potentially dangerous loss of their uniforms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COMMON (voice-over): At 89 airports across Canada, Federally contracted screeners are there to keep track of airline passengers and their bags. But documents obtained by the CBC show the screeners seem to have trouble keeping track of their own uniforms. In the first nine months of this year, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority or CATSA, a government department, reported 1127 uniform parts were lost or stolen; 226 of them have the CATSA logo and 91 are metal security badges known as shields. CATSA doesn't know where they've gone or who has them. The fear is, in the wrong hands, the uniforms could lead to a serious security breach.

SEN. COLIN KENNY, CANADIAN SENATE NATL SEC. CMTE: What worries me is it makes it much easier to impersonate an official. If someone isn't looking carefully at their badge or their pass that they're carrying, there's a problem.

COMMON: Kenny has found many other problems with the agency in his role as chairman of the Senate National Security Committee that's looking into all aspects of airport security. The committee found high turnover rates of airport screeners which has led to less experienced staff and the committee's investigation also found at least one of those missing uniforms on eBay, an online auction site. There are now fears those missing uniforms could be used as part of an attack.

PETER ST. JOHN, AIRPORT SECURITY CONSULTANT: You can almost board a plane at will and hijack it or anything. Security simply is poor.

COMMON: But the Federal agency CATSA says the missing uniforms aren't much of a concern.

KEVIN McGAR, CATSA SPOKESMAN: The uniform is in no way a document of entitlement, if you will, or an article that allows a person to access a restricted area of an airport.

COMMON: Workers need photo ID to do that. CATSA isn't formally investigating the missing uniforms. Still the private security firms contracted by Ottawa to run airport screening are being encouraged to improve practices.

McGAR: There are monetary incentives for appropriately meeting our expectation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COMMON: Now of course, it didn't take very long for the fallout to begin. Right after that story aired, Canada's transport minister ordered an immediate rapid investigation. He wants the answers on his desk by Monday morning. In the meantime he sent out an urgent directive to all 89 of Canada's Federally regulated airports telling security there to double check the identification of all airport employees before they start the job and even during their shift. Carol?

LIN: David, but is there any comfort to be taken that if these uniforms and badges disappeared nine months ago and somebody had ill intent with them, that it would have happened by now?

COMMON: There's certainly the potential for that but you also have to remember that with the terrorist attacks that took place on your country, those occurred over many years of planning. So there is some worry that someone of course could be holding these for future use or they could simply be lost in the laundry but the problem is nobody knows.

LIN: Right, all right. Information is power. Thank you very much, David Common, great reporting.

We want to update you now on another story about airport security, this one taking place in France where the intention by police was to check to see if their security system would detect explosives. So what did they do as part of their anti-terror training? Well, they used, they packed explosives material in some passenger's suitcase. Only now it went undetected and they don't know where it is. Jim Bittermann is joining me on the telephone from Paris right now. Jim, what is the latest in this investigation? It's been 48 hours since the last time anybody saw that explosive material. Don't you think a passenger would have turned it in by now?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one would have thought because in fact what they did was they picked a couple of bags at random. We understand there were about four bags involved in this and they put somewhere between 3.5 to 5 ounces of explosives in each bag, plastic explosives and the idea was that the sniffer dogs were going to detect these explosives and they would be able to spot them and take them off the baggage carousel. The only problem was that three were caught and one wasn't. And the police involved apparently didn't take any notes about which bags they were putting the explosives in. So this one missing bag described as a small roll away bag, blue in color has disappeared. There were about 90 flights leaving the airport before the police were able to figure out what exactly happened, so they've alerted all the authorities and all the passengers on those flights that somewhere out there, there is this small bar of explosives.

Now the authorities are quick to point out that the explosives without a detonator really don't pose any threat. However, I think the prime minister's office here in kind of an embarrassed statement really went to the heart of the problem because he issued a statement in which he said that the way the thing was handled was susceptible to making the relevant passenger run a risk in the eyes of foreign authorities when arriving in the destination country. In other words, if somebody arrives with explosives packed in their bags, they might just get arrested.

LIN: Right, but the question is why hasn't anyone either been arrested or called authorities to say look, I've got this strange thing in my bag. I think it might be explosives. This is 48 hours.

BITTERMANN: This turned up -- in fact, in a way the police have inadvertently turned up what maybe somebody has intended in the first place and that is that it's easy to smuggle explosives. Because clearly, if the explosives haven't been detected, these flights by this time all landed somewhere, so and none of the explosives, the explosives haven't been turned in. The passenger hasn't been caught, so in a way they're pointing up exactly how easy it is to smuggle explosives.

LIN: Well I suppose they could turn bad news into good news if they like but we'll see what happens. Thanks very much, Jim, Jim Bittermann.

We're going to have more on this story in our prime-time show at 10:00 and I'm going to be talking with our terrorism expert then about what somebody does with these, what they can do with it if they do find it.

Well right now, we want to give the latest on Iraq. U.S. troop numbers there are increasing and so is the criticism for Donald Rumsfeld, our secretary of defense. Arizona Senator John McCain says he doesn't have confidence in this defense secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

McCAIN: I have to say that I want to work with Secretary Rumsfeld, because he will be the secretary of defense for an undetermined length of time and I want to work with him and I want to do the best I can for the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not a vote of confidence.

McCAIN: No, it's not. LIN: It has been a bloody and violent day in Iraq. U.S. forces there are making a grim milestone and insurgents unleashed a string of new attacks today. So we get the latest from CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By far, the bloodiest attack Sunday. Iraqi civilians shot by gunmen waiting to ambush them as they arrive for work.

TRANSLATOR: A group of terrorists shot dead a number of employees working in the U.S. (INAUDIBLE) arms depot.

ROBERTSON: Seventeen killed and 13 wounded in the attack outside Tikrit, 120 milts north of Baghdad. Most revealing about fears of attack by insurgents, the U.S. backed Iraqi National Guard officer covered his face for the interview. The first killing of the day came two hours earlier 50 miles to the south near Samara when an Iraqi army convoy was attacked by insurgents, killing one and wounding four.

A car bomb was used in another attack, targeting Iraqi National Guardsmen on checkpoint duty near (INAUDIBLE) north of Tikrit. Three were killed and 18 wounded. The morning of those killed Saturday and even bloodier day during which 31 Iraqis died progressed Sunday. Friends and relatives buried a policeman, one of 16 Iraqis to die when a massive car bomb detonated outside the super secure international administrative enclave known as the green zone. In Mosul, insurgents pose for the camera in front of a mosque they claim was damaged by U.S. forces.

TRANSLATOR: I swear by almighty God our retaliation will be severe against the coalition dogs. I'm talking on behalf of the Mujahedeen.

ROBERTSON: The mosque, according to coalition officials, had been searched, following its use as a base for an attack against U.S. troops that killed two soldiers Saturday. Their deaths bringing the total number of U.S. forces killed in hostile acts to 1,000 since the war again. Iraqi deaths can not be so readily quantified. This Sunday at least 21 were killed, at least 52 over the weekend. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: It has gotten so violent in Iraq that a relief agency operating in Falluja is temporarily suspending its efforts. I'm talking about Iraq's Red Crescent similar to the Red Cross here in the United States. It will not be distributing food, water or medical supplies for two days. They are taking a break right now to allow coalition forces to conduct security searches in that area.

However the IRC has managed to hand out extra supplies to about 100 or so families remaining in Falluja in anticipation that they were going to have to shut down operations for a couple of days. LIN: Now we take a look at the war on terror, it would have been nearly impossible to fight the war on terror in Afghanistan against the Taliban if it wasn't for the help of Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf, who met with President Bush this weekend and talked specifically about the violence in Iraq. He says that the U.S. led invasion of Iraq was a mistake. That's what he told our Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTAN: I think it is less certainly.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a mistake for President Bush to order this invasion, with hindsight?

MUSHARRAF: Yes, with hindsight, yes, we have landed ourselves in more problems.

BLITZER: So what do you do about the situation now? Should the U.S. and its coalition partners simply pull out of Iraq at this point?

MUSHARRAF: No, they should not. They should not, because that will create more problems in the region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And in the Middle East, there are observers there who view a prisoner exchange today as a sign that chilly relations between Egypt and Israel may be thawing. That might be some good news. Egypt released an Israeli businessman it had imprisoned for eight years on an espionage charge. Now in exchange, Israel freed six Egyptian students accused of illegally entering Israel and plotting to kidnap and kill Israeli soldiers. Troubled relations between Israel and Egypt have been improving as Israel prepares to withdraw from the Gaza strip.

And now in other news around the world. Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko is calling for quick electoral changes to help make sure the December 26th presidential runoff vote or revote is fair. Yushchenko urged tens of thousands of supporters at Kiev's independence square this evening to keep pressure on parliament by maintaining their blockade of official buildings.

And Turkey is hosting its first ever visit by a Russian head of state. President Vladimir Putin is spending two days there focusing on trade and investments and energy deals. The visit underscores improved relations between the former cold war foes.

And Philippine officials seek the world's help in rebuilding villages ravaged by back to back storms that have left hundreds dead and missing. Monday's tropical storm and Thursday's typhoon caused flash floods. You're seeing just some of the damage there. Landslides that destroyed hundreds of homes and farms and roads and bridges. At least 566 people are dead and nearly as many are still missing.

Australia, the European Union, Japan, New Zealand, United States and the United Nations and the International Red Cross are providing aid, just in case you needed a list.

So was it fair or was there fraud?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLIFF ARNEBUCK, COMMON CAUSE OHIO: Every form of irregularity that you can conceive of seemed to be happening in Ohio in this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: It was in the spotlight on Election Day and now it's back. Up next why somewhere are calling for a recount in Ohio.

Plus prosecuting a pop star. Why Michael Jackson is serving up DNA samples to authorities. We have new information.

And later --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KACZINSKI: At that the point he said if anything ever happens to me, I want you to know that you're the only person I've ever loved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: A brother's battle, David Kaczinski talks about turning in his brother, Ted Kaczinski, the Unabomber and now his fight against the death penalty. It is a CNN exclusive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Lots of people still upset about the outcome of the presidential election. The Reverend Jesse Jackson is among them, and he says Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry conceded the election too early and should push for an investigation in the state of Ohio that tipped the balance.

Republican Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell plans to certify his state's election results tomorrow, but Ohioans upset about the long lines and the machine shortages and problems in mostly black districts on Election Day plan to contest the results. Third party candidates armed with a Federal ruling want recounts in all 88 countries. And Reverend Jackson wants Kerry to use leftover campaign funds to bolster that protest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JESSE JACKSON: He promised to cover the people's back and not let - and then let every vote count. And so far every vote has not been counted and so that is the promise he made, the legal, political moral, obligation. I hope that his coming into one of the suits last week in Ohio is just a step in the right direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LIN: All right. So far Senator Kerry not promising to use leftover funds to join the protests. But he is supporting a suit as Reverend Jackson was just talking about in Delaware County, Ohio, to overturn a judge's ruling that would have kept that county out of a statewide recount. Now that county is in the recount. Kerry, who thanked supporters in New Hampshire last night, contends any recount should include all 88 of Ohio's counties. Now a judge last week approved a recount in that state but that recount is not likely to begin until after December 13th when the state counts its 20 electoral votes.

So is it possible as Jesse Jackson implies, that President Bush may not have really won re-election? CNN's Adaora Udoji is following a fact checking on the vote in Ohio and in other places.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over) These Ohio voters are not convinced President Bush won their state giving him four more years in the White House.

CLIFF ARNEBUCK, COMMON CAUSE OHIO: Every form of irregularity that you can conceive of seemed to be happening in Ohio in this election.

REV. JESSE JACKSON: Make a case for recount.

UDOJI: Helped by Reverend Jesse Jackson, they plan to challenge official results to be released Monday and demand a recount, even though Senator John Kerry's losing campaign is not contesting the outcome. Ohio election officials say the results are sound.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats and Republicans are working together to make sure they get it right.

UDOJI: It's not just Ohio. Complaints and accusations have flooded on to the Internet and in headlines almost faster than fact checkers can check them, some theories quickly debunked by fact. "The Boston Globe" reports in North Carolina it initially appeared nearly 4,500 electronic votes had disappeared. Later, an election official explained fatigued workers missed a computer signal. It was corrected.

The "New York Times" reported on accusations in Cleveland that there were more votes counted than there were voters. It turned out to be a clerical error. But the nonpartisan Verified Voting Foundation is looking into reports of more than 37,000 incidents of election irregularities and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission acknowledges there were glitches across the country. Machines didn't work; workers showed up late, you name it. They're reviewing it all.

VOICE OF: DEFOREST SOARIES, ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: The fact is the election results can be trusted. The margin this year for president was wide enough for us not to believe that any glitches would impact the outcome of the presidential race.

UDOJI: Still, three Democratic congressmen have raised more election questions. They asked the General Accounting Office to look into alleged problems and it is. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Up next, facing fire in Falluja and living to tell the tale.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. ANDY CUNNINGHMAM: Most people don't go to work carrying automatic weapons and grenades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: one soldier describes what he witnessed fighting in the most intensive battle since shock and awe. And later, risky business, why some say the gaps are too big in our nation's port security.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Last month's fight for Falluja was one of the most defining as well as bloody moments so far in the U.S.-led military mission in Iraq. American troops who took part in the offensive say they will never forget what they saw and heard. Sergeant Andy Cunningham is with the 1st infantry division and on our frontline story tonight, he describes what he witnessed as he took part in the battle against insurgents on the frontlines.

BV

SGT. ANDY CUNNINGHAM: I guess I wanted to be proud of whatever it was that was going to happen over here. I believe people should put their money, you know, where their mouth is and not -- and not talk the game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're meeting now in the fights tomorrow and we're not leaving until we finish.

CUNNINGHAM: Nervousness, the apprehension, not fear but apprehension. It was the most intense fighting I've seen or been around. I really don't know how to describe it. Surreal, surreal, I guess. We saw smoke, fire, and everything, and constantly explosions, just the total destruction, I mean a house just gone. I mean that's...

UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (INAUDIBLE) in there if we get the GS battery fired.

CUNNINGHAM: The city reminded me of old time pictures I had seen of Germany in World War II after Germany had been bombed in World War II and I honestly never thought I'd live to see something like that in my lifetime. One minute we're out trying to shoot bad guys and the next minute we're just trying to be as normal as we can. Most people don't go to work, most people don't go to work carrying automatic weapons and grenades. It's like being part of a family, actually. Death down here, yeah, you accept the fact that it's going to happen, but you still think about was it worth it? Was it not worth it? Was it worth it to him? Was it not worth it to him. Senselessness sometimes of it all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To our old four angels that joined a formation of ramrods that looks over us every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; Sometime I don't think this is worth anybody losing their life, and then but at the same time I'll think but they do what they believed in. If I was to lose my life, I'd be doing what I believed in and then it is worth it, you know? So the answer is yes and no.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Imagine this, 12,000 American and Iraqi troops took part in the offensive to drive insurgents from Fallujah.

Well, securing the homeland, it is our nation's top priority. So, will a new head of homeland security make us safer? Up next, I'm going to talk to the police chief and former police chief of two major cities to see what they need.

Plus a CNN exclusive, the brother of Unabomber Ted Kaczynski speaks about his brother and his new battle to save his life.

And the case of Michael Jackson, now information on the child molestation charges against him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. And here's what's happening right now in the news. Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon says he has worked tirelessly to gain the release of an Israeli businessman held in Egypt on espionage charges.

Azzam Azzam was released today after 8 years in a prison. He was exchanged for 6 Egyptian students which Israel says were infiltrators.

Well, some families of 9/11 victims held a vigil outside the nation's capital this weekend urging legislators to pass an intelligence reform bill. Congress failed to pass the bill before the Thanksgiving recess and takes it up once again tomorrow.

The incoming Democratic leader of the Senate says conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is an embarrassment on the court. Nevada Senator Harry Reid said that on NBC's Meet the Press. And that he thinks Thomas' opinions are poorly written and that he could never support him to replace Chief Justice William Rehnquist.

And the results of the Ohio presidential vote which tipped the balance in favor of President Bush, those results are expected to be certified tomorrow. President Bush won the state by about 136,000 votes, but some Ohio voters are demanding a recount and an investigation into reports of voting irregularities.

Well, since 9/11, protecting the nation's ports has become a key component of national security. Both the Coast Guard and U.S. Customs Service are playing a major role. But imagine the number of containers at ports that go completely unchecked. CNN's Miguel Marquez had amazing access to the investigation into port security.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQEUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since 9/11, port security has become a Coast Guard mantra.

CAPT. PETER V. NEFFENGER, U.S. COAST GUARD: Detect, deter, prevent and respond to any terrorist-type incident.

MARQUEZ: Preventing is done by identifying high interest ships long before they reach U.S. shores. And once they're here, it's the Coast Guard's job to board them to ensure crew and cargo check out. At the nation's busiest seaport, it's a herculean task.

NEFFENGER: I don't to discover something in the port.

MARQUEZ: What's in the port are container. The ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach process 45 percent of the containers carrying goods like clothing and electronics arriving on U.S. shores.

NEFFENGER: Modern seaports weren't designed for security in mind. They were designed for efficiency.

MARQUEZ: For port workers, background checks and TSA identity cards are on the way. In age of terrorism, the threats for such a vast system are easily imagined.

VERA ADAMS, U.S. CUSTOMS SERVICE: Traditional explosives, anything radioactive that might be coming in that might be used against the country. People coming in.

MARQUEZ: So while the Coast Guard secures the ships, the Customs Service is responsible for what's inside each container container.

ADAMS: We have layered system of filters.

MARQUEZ: The number of containers are so vast that only a small fraction, about 6 percent, are identified for X-ray scanning, either dockside or by more traditional means. And even a smaller number of goods are inspected by hand. The Customs Service says the key to security is in identifying those containers that need to be searched or scanned.

ADAMS: It's important to focus on examining all the containers we identify as high risk, not to have a certain set percentage as a goal.

MARQUEZ: Law enforcement officials say protecting U.S. ports and shipping supply lines comes down to intelligence. Knowing every shipper worldwide, how they operate and who their friends are. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well clearly homeland security has become a top priority for all of law enforcement. President Bush has tapped former top cop of New York City to head the effort.

Joining me from Los Angeles is former police chief Bernard Parks And also joining me now is John Timoney, police chief in Miami, Florida.

Gentlemen, because we wanted to get the front line's perspective of what it means for a police officer, essentially, to take over the role of an outgoing governor as Homeland Security. So John Timoney, is it fair to say you knew Bernie Kerik when he was practically a kid?

JOHN TIMONEY, POLICE CHIEF OF MIAMI FLORIDA: Yaeh. When he came on the N.Y.P.D. in 1986 as a rookie officer, I was a captain in the area. And so I observeded him early on. He was a young, aggressive officer that later moved on as an undercover narcotics which takes a certain amount of nerve. He did a good job there.

And then, hooked up with Mayor Giuliani, became the No. 2 of corrections and then No. 1. And then eventually, the police commissioner. So, he's had at least a bit of an experience over the last ten years or so.

LIN: You might say, just a little bit.

What do you think is the first thing he is going to do with this huge bureaucracy that is trying to unify 22 different agencies?

TIMONEY: Well, I think he's got to take some time over the next month or two to get to know them all. Because he is a local police officer. And the federal system is just a little bit different. So he'll need to get quick learning mechanism in place. And then also he'll have to get used to the different type of politics in Congress going on the Hill, glad handing with politicians.

LIN: And that's not his style. This is a bottom line guy. This is a guy who says, you know what, show me result, accountability, that's the only way things get done that. That is not the way in Washington?

TIMONEY: No, and I think Governor Ridge complained about, that that he spent way too much time briefing Congressmen, testifying before one committee after another instead of being able to go out there on a daily basis and get involved in operations doing their job.

LIN: Right. And that's what police officers do. They get out on the street, they see the problem, they attack it.

Bernie Parks, you were police chief in Los Angeles. You had to wrestle with a contentious and very large city council. So, when you take a look at Bernie Kerik's credential, beat cop, undercover detective and police commissioner, does that help or hurt him in the Washington bureaucracy?

BERNIE PARKS, FRM. LOST ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: I think it's going to help him in one regard, and that is understanding clearly where the deficiencies in the federal government in its help of local jurisdiction. There's always been a concern that local jurisdictions were left out of the loop. He has to have a real sensitivity of that position as he moves into his new position.

But in any job as he takes over this large bureaucracy, there is a growing mechanism, and he is going have to select some very good people to deal with the operational aspect, because he's going to be expected to be the face and voice to those who actually vote on the funding and understanding what homeland security.

LIN: Right. What didn't L.A get. Give me an example under the birth of homeland security, which is only 2 years old, it's a work in progress, but what did you need in your job to make sure that Angelenos stayed safe?

PARKS: Well see, when I was chief of police September 11 just occurred. And so we were fortunate to have in place a terrorist task force, a terrorist division, a very good working relationship with the federal government which didn't occur throughout the nation. But what always will be an issue for what is needed as first responder equipment, also with every type of activity whether it's the port, whether it's the airport, there's all special needs, equipment, personnel, information.

But a lot of this will basically be successful only if the information flows and the analysts information is sufficient to allow to you react.

LIN: I mean, that's the bottom line, Chief Timoney, right? That you need to get the basic information. What are the feds hearing? And how does it apply to Miami? Do you think that's going to work better under Kerik? And if so, why?

TIMONEY: Well, I'm pretty familiar with Homeland Security and how it's structured in Washington. And while I have nothing against the military, there seems to have been too much of a reliance on retired military officials. You know, big city chiefs were not the at table, now they're at the head of the table. And I think Bernie will be able to -- he understands what we need. As Bernie just pointed out, we need funds for training, for equipment, but also good, hard intelligence on the ground, fresh intelligence.

LIN: But the problem is, at least on the federal level, they are very cautious about what they give out to the local level, because they don't want it to leak. They don't often trust you guys, do they?

TIMONEY: No. Unfortunately not.

PARKS: One of the things that is important is realize is that trust may not be something that is well deserved. I think the issue is that law enforcement working together have proved to be a very efficient operation. So there has to be some trust, because you can't allow a local agency to work in a void or a vacuum and hold onto information that can be helpful.

There's an understanding in local law enforcement, you can't get everything, because if all information became public it then becomes gossip. And so the issue is there's got to be relationship, there's got to be a relationship. And it starts with the local level with the local FBI, the local federal people.

LIN: With the specifics of when you go to raise the terror threat level, you need -- you guys need to know why.

Chiefs, thank you very much. Chief Bernard Parks, good to see you. And Chief John Timoney, always great to have you, thank you..

TIMONEY: Carol, think you. Very good seeing you.

PARKS: Nice seeing you, John.

LIN: Old home week right here on CNN.

Well, you may remember David Kaczynski as the man who helped authorities catch his brother Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber. Wel, that arrest has led David Kaczynski to take on a cause that's very near and dear to his heart. Alina Cho has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Ted Kaczynski was caught nearly 9 years ago in a Montana cabin he called home, it brought an 18 year FBI manhunt to an end. The Unabomber finally had a face.

Yet the search may never have ended had it been for David Kaczynski, Ted's only sibling, the man who turned him in.

DAVID KACZYNSKI, TED KACZYNSI'S BROTHER: What do you do if you think someone that you love has committed a murder?

CHO: For david, there were no easy answers.

D. KACZYNSKI: I realized it wasn't a nightmare I was having. I was literally considering the possibility that my brother was a serial killer.

CHO: For months prior to the arrest, David had worked closely with the FBI.

D. KACZYNSKI: I certainly found that they were very, very sympathetic when and talked about their suspect, which they were trying to match with our suspect, my Brother, as with a serious mental illness.

CHO (on camera): But all of that changed the day Ted was arrested.

D. KACZYNSKI: We thought we had a very strong argument in the sense that if they execute David Kaczynski's brother, the next person in my position is going to be more reluctant to come forward.

CHO (voice-over): Despite efforts by the government to seek the death penalty, Ted Kaczynski is serving a life sentence.

D. KACZYNSKI: I look at reasons why my brother's life was saved. I think my brother had attorneys far more gifted than any of the people who have sentenced to death in America. Often in this country, we're not committing the criminal who committed the worst crime, we're executing the defendant who got the worst attorney.

CHO: Why David Kaczynski is now an ardent opponent to capital punishment. As head of New Yorkers Against The Death Penalty, he even travels the country to tell his story.

D. KACZYNSKI: It was a difficult decision in some sense, because I knew it meant relinquishing my privacy.

CHO: This month, New York State will begin hearings to consider reinstating the death penalty. David sees it as an opportunity to abolish capital punishment in the state altogether.

D. KACZYNSKI: I'm totally convinced that if my brother had been executed, he wouldn't have been the person who suffered the most. The person that suffered the most would have been our mother.

CHO (on camera): Do you have regrets about turning in your brother?

D. KACZYNSKI: No, no. I do have the regrets I feel are from earlier in my life. I look back now and I wish, for Ted's sake and for his victims' sake and for their families' sake that I had just maybe been a little bit better brother.

CHO (voice-over): David still remembers the last time he saw Ted. And how he tried to convince him to leave Montana.

D. KACZYNSKI: The night before he made his decision, he said, Dave, I have too much to do around here, I think I'm going to stay. Of course, I didn't know what his activities involved, so I look back at the fact that when my brother was arrested, they found another live bomb in his cabin in Montana. The realization was clearly is if we hadn't done what we had to do, probably another person would have been killed.

CHO: He realizes his personal and painful experience is unique.

D. KACZYNSKI: The issue of the question is how do you go forward and make the best of it? And some instance it's an extraordinary privilege to be able to do that.

CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, Albany, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Still ahead on CNN LIVE SUNDAY: trying Michael Jackson. The pop star submits more evidence to authority, this time it's DNA evidence. Details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right, CNN has learned of a new development in the case against entertainer Michael Jackson. The pop star is fighting a child molestation charge, or charges. From Los Angeles, Miguel Marquez is reporting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: When Santa Barbara sheffi's investigators raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch last Friday, they were seeking a DNA sample from the pop star, CNN has confirmed.

A source also tells CNN that investigators were armed with two search warrants signed by Rodney Melvill, the Santa Barbara's superior court judge hearing the case against jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is very unusual to have this type of search so late in the game.

MARQUEZ: A source tells CNN Jackson, who was home was surprised and traumatized by the raid. Jackson submitted to having his mouth swabed by investigators on Saturday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are they just getting the dna samples now? This is a child molestation case. You would have expected that right off the bat the prosecutors and police would have gone in for these DNA samples.

MARQUEZ: Jackson is charged with four counts of lewd acts on a child, one count of attempted lews act, four counts of giving an intoxicating agent to assist in the lewd acts and one count of conspiracy. He's pleaded not guilty to all the charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know whether this means they're tying up loose ends to win this case.

MARQUEZ (on camera): One thing legal experts seem to agree on is this latest search puts in jeopardy the targeted trial date of January 31. The next pretrial hearing is scheduled for later this month. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And just minutes from now, a star-studded benefit gets under way in Washington. The red carpet arrivals at Kennedy Center Honors. Nobody's there right now, but moments ago P. Diddy had just arrived.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The star-studded 27th annual Kennedy Honors gets under way shortly in Washington, D.C. We're just going to that a live picture there. It looks like -- that looks like Bo Derek, actually. Anyway, tributes this year are going to go to Elton John, Joan Sutherland, John williams, Warren Beatty, Ozzy Davis and Ruby Dee who just arrived a few moments ago, for their lifetime contributions to American culture through performing arts.

First Lady Laura Bush greeted the honorees at a Whie House reception this afternoon. Wouldn't that be fun? There is Norm Mineta former transportation secretary. And I'm just absolutely positive that is Bo Derek.

Anyway, that's all the time we have for this hour.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired December 5, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Here is what's happening right now in the news. The U.S. military says gunmen have killed 17 Iraqis and injured 13 others. They were arriving at a weapons dump in Tikrit and that dump was supposed to be controlled by coalition forces. A spokesman says the workers were traveling by bus when the gunmen opened fire.
And on to politics here in this country, Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is predicting Congress will have an intelligence reform bill by midweek. That bill had enough votes to pass before Thanksgiving break, but House Speaker Dennis Hastert would not let it go to the floor without a majority of Republicans supporting it.

A source familiar with the Michael Jackson molestation trial says that sheriff's investigators have now taken DNA, a DNA sample, a swab of Michael Jackson's mouth. Jackson returned to the ranch to assist in that. We're going to have much more on this later this hour.

I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Straight ahead this hour, hundreds of Canadian airport security uniforms and badges go missing and our question tonight, has security been jeopardized?

And one month after the presidential election, Ohio is still trying to figure out who won. Believe it or not we're talking of a possible recount. More on that in a moment.

And then inside a soldier's mind. We're going to take you to the front lines in our special segment in Falluja.

Right now we are going to begin with fresh fears about protecting America from terrorism. President Bush and the families of 9/11 victims are urging Congress to pass legislation reforming the intelligence community even as glitches and security problems in other countries are beginning it be revealed today. So what is that going to mean for us right here in the United States? We are going to start with Kathleen Koch. She's at the White House and talk about the mounting pressure to get the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission passed into law. Why is there fresh optimism that we may actually get intelligence reform, Kathleen?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you said, Senator Frist, Senate majority leader, is predicting that he believes if they're going to have success it could come by midweek, but it's very interesting battle for President Bush who initially opposed even creating the 9/11 Commission. He now says he firmly supports the intelligence reform bill that does implement its recommendations but getting it past is shaping up as a test of his presidential powers of persuasion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH (voice-over): Call it a push but not a shove as Congress gets back to work this week, President Bush persuading Republicans to back the intelligence reform bill.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning, everybody!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning Mr. President!

KOCH: Mr. Bush lobbied for it in his weekend radio address. He's phoned individual lawmakers but the top Senate Democrat is challenging the president to put more political capital where his mouth is.

SEN. HENRY REID (D) INCOMING MINORITY LEADER: He has a mandate. Let him pull a few bucks out of that pocket of mandate and give it to the House and Senate and say here's part of my mandate. I want this legislation to pass.

KOCH: Bill action is being held up because of the objections of some House Republicans. Some want to include tougher immigration measures. Other worry troops could be put in danger by restructuring plans, giving authority to a new national intelligence director. Seventeen sent a letter to Speaker Dennis Hastert Friday the same day the chairman of the Senate Armed Service Committee in a statement voiced his concerns about speedy military access to intelligence.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R) MAJORITY LEADER: There are a lot of people who have questions because we're talking about safety and security. We're talking about that soldier on the battlefield.

KOCH: Opponents warn they're standing their ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While the Pentagon has to fall in when the president gives an order, the Congress does not have an obligation to fall in when the commander in chief gives an order.

KOCH: But some believe the stalemate has more to do with politics and committee chairman losing power.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Despite the rhetoric, this is all about power which has got to do with money here in Washington. Whoever controls the budget controls the power and that's what this is all about.

KOCH: Congress is scheduled to recess this week for the holidays though it could decide to extend the session. Many believe inaction now would kill the measure.

SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D) WEST VIRGINIA: It would be history. That would be a terrible mistake in the middle of a global war on terrorism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Some say it would be a defeat for President Bush that could embolden Congress and endanger other initiatives in the Bush agenda. Carol?

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Kathleen Koch live at the White House.

We're going to stay on this issue of national security but we're going to take a look what's happening up in Canada. You go to the airport, you see the airport screeners. They check you to make sure you're not carrying any weapons. Well 1100 airport screener uniforms and employee badges in Canada are now missing. The CBCs David Common broke the story of the missing uniforms. He's joining me now from Montreal Quebec with more details. David, your story is making news itself and it looks like there might be an investigation now?

DAVID COMMON, CBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed it is an investigation and of course, usually at Canadian airports it's passengers who are facing scrutiny. But a bit of a role reversal this weekend. We're now seeing airline and airport screeners who are facing their own kind of scrutiny after an embarrassing and potentially dangerous loss of their uniforms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COMMON (voice-over): At 89 airports across Canada, Federally contracted screeners are there to keep track of airline passengers and their bags. But documents obtained by the CBC show the screeners seem to have trouble keeping track of their own uniforms. In the first nine months of this year, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority or CATSA, a government department, reported 1127 uniform parts were lost or stolen; 226 of them have the CATSA logo and 91 are metal security badges known as shields. CATSA doesn't know where they've gone or who has them. The fear is, in the wrong hands, the uniforms could lead to a serious security breach.

SEN. COLIN KENNY, CANADIAN SENATE NATL SEC. CMTE: What worries me is it makes it much easier to impersonate an official. If someone isn't looking carefully at their badge or their pass that they're carrying, there's a problem.

COMMON: Kenny has found many other problems with the agency in his role as chairman of the Senate National Security Committee that's looking into all aspects of airport security. The committee found high turnover rates of airport screeners which has led to less experienced staff and the committee's investigation also found at least one of those missing uniforms on eBay, an online auction site. There are now fears those missing uniforms could be used as part of an attack.

PETER ST. JOHN, AIRPORT SECURITY CONSULTANT: You can almost board a plane at will and hijack it or anything. Security simply is poor.

COMMON: But the Federal agency CATSA says the missing uniforms aren't much of a concern.

KEVIN McGAR, CATSA SPOKESMAN: The uniform is in no way a document of entitlement, if you will, or an article that allows a person to access a restricted area of an airport.

COMMON: Workers need photo ID to do that. CATSA isn't formally investigating the missing uniforms. Still the private security firms contracted by Ottawa to run airport screening are being encouraged to improve practices.

McGAR: There are monetary incentives for appropriately meeting our expectation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COMMON: Now of course, it didn't take very long for the fallout to begin. Right after that story aired, Canada's transport minister ordered an immediate rapid investigation. He wants the answers on his desk by Monday morning. In the meantime he sent out an urgent directive to all 89 of Canada's Federally regulated airports telling security there to double check the identification of all airport employees before they start the job and even during their shift. Carol?

LIN: David, but is there any comfort to be taken that if these uniforms and badges disappeared nine months ago and somebody had ill intent with them, that it would have happened by now?

COMMON: There's certainly the potential for that but you also have to remember that with the terrorist attacks that took place on your country, those occurred over many years of planning. So there is some worry that someone of course could be holding these for future use or they could simply be lost in the laundry but the problem is nobody knows.

LIN: Right, all right. Information is power. Thank you very much, David Common, great reporting.

We want to update you now on another story about airport security, this one taking place in France where the intention by police was to check to see if their security system would detect explosives. So what did they do as part of their anti-terror training? Well, they used, they packed explosives material in some passenger's suitcase. Only now it went undetected and they don't know where it is. Jim Bittermann is joining me on the telephone from Paris right now. Jim, what is the latest in this investigation? It's been 48 hours since the last time anybody saw that explosive material. Don't you think a passenger would have turned it in by now?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one would have thought because in fact what they did was they picked a couple of bags at random. We understand there were about four bags involved in this and they put somewhere between 3.5 to 5 ounces of explosives in each bag, plastic explosives and the idea was that the sniffer dogs were going to detect these explosives and they would be able to spot them and take them off the baggage carousel. The only problem was that three were caught and one wasn't. And the police involved apparently didn't take any notes about which bags they were putting the explosives in. So this one missing bag described as a small roll away bag, blue in color has disappeared. There were about 90 flights leaving the airport before the police were able to figure out what exactly happened, so they've alerted all the authorities and all the passengers on those flights that somewhere out there, there is this small bar of explosives.

Now the authorities are quick to point out that the explosives without a detonator really don't pose any threat. However, I think the prime minister's office here in kind of an embarrassed statement really went to the heart of the problem because he issued a statement in which he said that the way the thing was handled was susceptible to making the relevant passenger run a risk in the eyes of foreign authorities when arriving in the destination country. In other words, if somebody arrives with explosives packed in their bags, they might just get arrested.

LIN: Right, but the question is why hasn't anyone either been arrested or called authorities to say look, I've got this strange thing in my bag. I think it might be explosives. This is 48 hours.

BITTERMANN: This turned up -- in fact, in a way the police have inadvertently turned up what maybe somebody has intended in the first place and that is that it's easy to smuggle explosives. Because clearly, if the explosives haven't been detected, these flights by this time all landed somewhere, so and none of the explosives, the explosives haven't been turned in. The passenger hasn't been caught, so in a way they're pointing up exactly how easy it is to smuggle explosives.

LIN: Well I suppose they could turn bad news into good news if they like but we'll see what happens. Thanks very much, Jim, Jim Bittermann.

We're going to have more on this story in our prime-time show at 10:00 and I'm going to be talking with our terrorism expert then about what somebody does with these, what they can do with it if they do find it.

Well right now, we want to give the latest on Iraq. U.S. troop numbers there are increasing and so is the criticism for Donald Rumsfeld, our secretary of defense. Arizona Senator John McCain says he doesn't have confidence in this defense secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

McCAIN: I have to say that I want to work with Secretary Rumsfeld, because he will be the secretary of defense for an undetermined length of time and I want to work with him and I want to do the best I can for the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not a vote of confidence.

McCAIN: No, it's not. LIN: It has been a bloody and violent day in Iraq. U.S. forces there are making a grim milestone and insurgents unleashed a string of new attacks today. So we get the latest from CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By far, the bloodiest attack Sunday. Iraqi civilians shot by gunmen waiting to ambush them as they arrive for work.

TRANSLATOR: A group of terrorists shot dead a number of employees working in the U.S. (INAUDIBLE) arms depot.

ROBERTSON: Seventeen killed and 13 wounded in the attack outside Tikrit, 120 milts north of Baghdad. Most revealing about fears of attack by insurgents, the U.S. backed Iraqi National Guard officer covered his face for the interview. The first killing of the day came two hours earlier 50 miles to the south near Samara when an Iraqi army convoy was attacked by insurgents, killing one and wounding four.

A car bomb was used in another attack, targeting Iraqi National Guardsmen on checkpoint duty near (INAUDIBLE) north of Tikrit. Three were killed and 18 wounded. The morning of those killed Saturday and even bloodier day during which 31 Iraqis died progressed Sunday. Friends and relatives buried a policeman, one of 16 Iraqis to die when a massive car bomb detonated outside the super secure international administrative enclave known as the green zone. In Mosul, insurgents pose for the camera in front of a mosque they claim was damaged by U.S. forces.

TRANSLATOR: I swear by almighty God our retaliation will be severe against the coalition dogs. I'm talking on behalf of the Mujahedeen.

ROBERTSON: The mosque, according to coalition officials, had been searched, following its use as a base for an attack against U.S. troops that killed two soldiers Saturday. Their deaths bringing the total number of U.S. forces killed in hostile acts to 1,000 since the war again. Iraqi deaths can not be so readily quantified. This Sunday at least 21 were killed, at least 52 over the weekend. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: It has gotten so violent in Iraq that a relief agency operating in Falluja is temporarily suspending its efforts. I'm talking about Iraq's Red Crescent similar to the Red Cross here in the United States. It will not be distributing food, water or medical supplies for two days. They are taking a break right now to allow coalition forces to conduct security searches in that area.

However the IRC has managed to hand out extra supplies to about 100 or so families remaining in Falluja in anticipation that they were going to have to shut down operations for a couple of days. LIN: Now we take a look at the war on terror, it would have been nearly impossible to fight the war on terror in Afghanistan against the Taliban if it wasn't for the help of Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf, who met with President Bush this weekend and talked specifically about the violence in Iraq. He says that the U.S. led invasion of Iraq was a mistake. That's what he told our Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTAN: I think it is less certainly.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a mistake for President Bush to order this invasion, with hindsight?

MUSHARRAF: Yes, with hindsight, yes, we have landed ourselves in more problems.

BLITZER: So what do you do about the situation now? Should the U.S. and its coalition partners simply pull out of Iraq at this point?

MUSHARRAF: No, they should not. They should not, because that will create more problems in the region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And in the Middle East, there are observers there who view a prisoner exchange today as a sign that chilly relations between Egypt and Israel may be thawing. That might be some good news. Egypt released an Israeli businessman it had imprisoned for eight years on an espionage charge. Now in exchange, Israel freed six Egyptian students accused of illegally entering Israel and plotting to kidnap and kill Israeli soldiers. Troubled relations between Israel and Egypt have been improving as Israel prepares to withdraw from the Gaza strip.

And now in other news around the world. Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko is calling for quick electoral changes to help make sure the December 26th presidential runoff vote or revote is fair. Yushchenko urged tens of thousands of supporters at Kiev's independence square this evening to keep pressure on parliament by maintaining their blockade of official buildings.

And Turkey is hosting its first ever visit by a Russian head of state. President Vladimir Putin is spending two days there focusing on trade and investments and energy deals. The visit underscores improved relations between the former cold war foes.

And Philippine officials seek the world's help in rebuilding villages ravaged by back to back storms that have left hundreds dead and missing. Monday's tropical storm and Thursday's typhoon caused flash floods. You're seeing just some of the damage there. Landslides that destroyed hundreds of homes and farms and roads and bridges. At least 566 people are dead and nearly as many are still missing.

Australia, the European Union, Japan, New Zealand, United States and the United Nations and the International Red Cross are providing aid, just in case you needed a list.

So was it fair or was there fraud?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLIFF ARNEBUCK, COMMON CAUSE OHIO: Every form of irregularity that you can conceive of seemed to be happening in Ohio in this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: It was in the spotlight on Election Day and now it's back. Up next why somewhere are calling for a recount in Ohio.

Plus prosecuting a pop star. Why Michael Jackson is serving up DNA samples to authorities. We have new information.

And later --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KACZINSKI: At that the point he said if anything ever happens to me, I want you to know that you're the only person I've ever loved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: A brother's battle, David Kaczinski talks about turning in his brother, Ted Kaczinski, the Unabomber and now his fight against the death penalty. It is a CNN exclusive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Lots of people still upset about the outcome of the presidential election. The Reverend Jesse Jackson is among them, and he says Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry conceded the election too early and should push for an investigation in the state of Ohio that tipped the balance.

Republican Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell plans to certify his state's election results tomorrow, but Ohioans upset about the long lines and the machine shortages and problems in mostly black districts on Election Day plan to contest the results. Third party candidates armed with a Federal ruling want recounts in all 88 countries. And Reverend Jackson wants Kerry to use leftover campaign funds to bolster that protest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JESSE JACKSON: He promised to cover the people's back and not let - and then let every vote count. And so far every vote has not been counted and so that is the promise he made, the legal, political moral, obligation. I hope that his coming into one of the suits last week in Ohio is just a step in the right direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LIN: All right. So far Senator Kerry not promising to use leftover funds to join the protests. But he is supporting a suit as Reverend Jackson was just talking about in Delaware County, Ohio, to overturn a judge's ruling that would have kept that county out of a statewide recount. Now that county is in the recount. Kerry, who thanked supporters in New Hampshire last night, contends any recount should include all 88 of Ohio's counties. Now a judge last week approved a recount in that state but that recount is not likely to begin until after December 13th when the state counts its 20 electoral votes.

So is it possible as Jesse Jackson implies, that President Bush may not have really won re-election? CNN's Adaora Udoji is following a fact checking on the vote in Ohio and in other places.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over) These Ohio voters are not convinced President Bush won their state giving him four more years in the White House.

CLIFF ARNEBUCK, COMMON CAUSE OHIO: Every form of irregularity that you can conceive of seemed to be happening in Ohio in this election.

REV. JESSE JACKSON: Make a case for recount.

UDOJI: Helped by Reverend Jesse Jackson, they plan to challenge official results to be released Monday and demand a recount, even though Senator John Kerry's losing campaign is not contesting the outcome. Ohio election officials say the results are sound.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats and Republicans are working together to make sure they get it right.

UDOJI: It's not just Ohio. Complaints and accusations have flooded on to the Internet and in headlines almost faster than fact checkers can check them, some theories quickly debunked by fact. "The Boston Globe" reports in North Carolina it initially appeared nearly 4,500 electronic votes had disappeared. Later, an election official explained fatigued workers missed a computer signal. It was corrected.

The "New York Times" reported on accusations in Cleveland that there were more votes counted than there were voters. It turned out to be a clerical error. But the nonpartisan Verified Voting Foundation is looking into reports of more than 37,000 incidents of election irregularities and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission acknowledges there were glitches across the country. Machines didn't work; workers showed up late, you name it. They're reviewing it all.

VOICE OF: DEFOREST SOARIES, ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: The fact is the election results can be trusted. The margin this year for president was wide enough for us not to believe that any glitches would impact the outcome of the presidential race.

UDOJI: Still, three Democratic congressmen have raised more election questions. They asked the General Accounting Office to look into alleged problems and it is. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Up next, facing fire in Falluja and living to tell the tale.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. ANDY CUNNINGHMAM: Most people don't go to work carrying automatic weapons and grenades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: one soldier describes what he witnessed fighting in the most intensive battle since shock and awe. And later, risky business, why some say the gaps are too big in our nation's port security.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Last month's fight for Falluja was one of the most defining as well as bloody moments so far in the U.S.-led military mission in Iraq. American troops who took part in the offensive say they will never forget what they saw and heard. Sergeant Andy Cunningham is with the 1st infantry division and on our frontline story tonight, he describes what he witnessed as he took part in the battle against insurgents on the frontlines.

BV

SGT. ANDY CUNNINGHAM: I guess I wanted to be proud of whatever it was that was going to happen over here. I believe people should put their money, you know, where their mouth is and not -- and not talk the game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're meeting now in the fights tomorrow and we're not leaving until we finish.

CUNNINGHAM: Nervousness, the apprehension, not fear but apprehension. It was the most intense fighting I've seen or been around. I really don't know how to describe it. Surreal, surreal, I guess. We saw smoke, fire, and everything, and constantly explosions, just the total destruction, I mean a house just gone. I mean that's...

UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (INAUDIBLE) in there if we get the GS battery fired.

CUNNINGHAM: The city reminded me of old time pictures I had seen of Germany in World War II after Germany had been bombed in World War II and I honestly never thought I'd live to see something like that in my lifetime. One minute we're out trying to shoot bad guys and the next minute we're just trying to be as normal as we can. Most people don't go to work, most people don't go to work carrying automatic weapons and grenades. It's like being part of a family, actually. Death down here, yeah, you accept the fact that it's going to happen, but you still think about was it worth it? Was it not worth it? Was it worth it to him? Was it not worth it to him. Senselessness sometimes of it all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To our old four angels that joined a formation of ramrods that looks over us every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; Sometime I don't think this is worth anybody losing their life, and then but at the same time I'll think but they do what they believed in. If I was to lose my life, I'd be doing what I believed in and then it is worth it, you know? So the answer is yes and no.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Imagine this, 12,000 American and Iraqi troops took part in the offensive to drive insurgents from Fallujah.

Well, securing the homeland, it is our nation's top priority. So, will a new head of homeland security make us safer? Up next, I'm going to talk to the police chief and former police chief of two major cities to see what they need.

Plus a CNN exclusive, the brother of Unabomber Ted Kaczynski speaks about his brother and his new battle to save his life.

And the case of Michael Jackson, now information on the child molestation charges against him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. And here's what's happening right now in the news. Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon says he has worked tirelessly to gain the release of an Israeli businessman held in Egypt on espionage charges.

Azzam Azzam was released today after 8 years in a prison. He was exchanged for 6 Egyptian students which Israel says were infiltrators.

Well, some families of 9/11 victims held a vigil outside the nation's capital this weekend urging legislators to pass an intelligence reform bill. Congress failed to pass the bill before the Thanksgiving recess and takes it up once again tomorrow.

The incoming Democratic leader of the Senate says conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is an embarrassment on the court. Nevada Senator Harry Reid said that on NBC's Meet the Press. And that he thinks Thomas' opinions are poorly written and that he could never support him to replace Chief Justice William Rehnquist.

And the results of the Ohio presidential vote which tipped the balance in favor of President Bush, those results are expected to be certified tomorrow. President Bush won the state by about 136,000 votes, but some Ohio voters are demanding a recount and an investigation into reports of voting irregularities.

Well, since 9/11, protecting the nation's ports has become a key component of national security. Both the Coast Guard and U.S. Customs Service are playing a major role. But imagine the number of containers at ports that go completely unchecked. CNN's Miguel Marquez had amazing access to the investigation into port security.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQEUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since 9/11, port security has become a Coast Guard mantra.

CAPT. PETER V. NEFFENGER, U.S. COAST GUARD: Detect, deter, prevent and respond to any terrorist-type incident.

MARQUEZ: Preventing is done by identifying high interest ships long before they reach U.S. shores. And once they're here, it's the Coast Guard's job to board them to ensure crew and cargo check out. At the nation's busiest seaport, it's a herculean task.

NEFFENGER: I don't to discover something in the port.

MARQUEZ: What's in the port are container. The ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach process 45 percent of the containers carrying goods like clothing and electronics arriving on U.S. shores.

NEFFENGER: Modern seaports weren't designed for security in mind. They were designed for efficiency.

MARQUEZ: For port workers, background checks and TSA identity cards are on the way. In age of terrorism, the threats for such a vast system are easily imagined.

VERA ADAMS, U.S. CUSTOMS SERVICE: Traditional explosives, anything radioactive that might be coming in that might be used against the country. People coming in.

MARQUEZ: So while the Coast Guard secures the ships, the Customs Service is responsible for what's inside each container container.

ADAMS: We have layered system of filters.

MARQUEZ: The number of containers are so vast that only a small fraction, about 6 percent, are identified for X-ray scanning, either dockside or by more traditional means. And even a smaller number of goods are inspected by hand. The Customs Service says the key to security is in identifying those containers that need to be searched or scanned.

ADAMS: It's important to focus on examining all the containers we identify as high risk, not to have a certain set percentage as a goal.

MARQUEZ: Law enforcement officials say protecting U.S. ports and shipping supply lines comes down to intelligence. Knowing every shipper worldwide, how they operate and who their friends are. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well clearly homeland security has become a top priority for all of law enforcement. President Bush has tapped former top cop of New York City to head the effort.

Joining me from Los Angeles is former police chief Bernard Parks And also joining me now is John Timoney, police chief in Miami, Florida.

Gentlemen, because we wanted to get the front line's perspective of what it means for a police officer, essentially, to take over the role of an outgoing governor as Homeland Security. So John Timoney, is it fair to say you knew Bernie Kerik when he was practically a kid?

JOHN TIMONEY, POLICE CHIEF OF MIAMI FLORIDA: Yaeh. When he came on the N.Y.P.D. in 1986 as a rookie officer, I was a captain in the area. And so I observeded him early on. He was a young, aggressive officer that later moved on as an undercover narcotics which takes a certain amount of nerve. He did a good job there.

And then, hooked up with Mayor Giuliani, became the No. 2 of corrections and then No. 1. And then eventually, the police commissioner. So, he's had at least a bit of an experience over the last ten years or so.

LIN: You might say, just a little bit.

What do you think is the first thing he is going to do with this huge bureaucracy that is trying to unify 22 different agencies?

TIMONEY: Well, I think he's got to take some time over the next month or two to get to know them all. Because he is a local police officer. And the federal system is just a little bit different. So he'll need to get quick learning mechanism in place. And then also he'll have to get used to the different type of politics in Congress going on the Hill, glad handing with politicians.

LIN: And that's not his style. This is a bottom line guy. This is a guy who says, you know what, show me result, accountability, that's the only way things get done that. That is not the way in Washington?

TIMONEY: No, and I think Governor Ridge complained about, that that he spent way too much time briefing Congressmen, testifying before one committee after another instead of being able to go out there on a daily basis and get involved in operations doing their job.

LIN: Right. And that's what police officers do. They get out on the street, they see the problem, they attack it.

Bernie Parks, you were police chief in Los Angeles. You had to wrestle with a contentious and very large city council. So, when you take a look at Bernie Kerik's credential, beat cop, undercover detective and police commissioner, does that help or hurt him in the Washington bureaucracy?

BERNIE PARKS, FRM. LOST ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: I think it's going to help him in one regard, and that is understanding clearly where the deficiencies in the federal government in its help of local jurisdiction. There's always been a concern that local jurisdictions were left out of the loop. He has to have a real sensitivity of that position as he moves into his new position.

But in any job as he takes over this large bureaucracy, there is a growing mechanism, and he is going have to select some very good people to deal with the operational aspect, because he's going to be expected to be the face and voice to those who actually vote on the funding and understanding what homeland security.

LIN: Right. What didn't L.A get. Give me an example under the birth of homeland security, which is only 2 years old, it's a work in progress, but what did you need in your job to make sure that Angelenos stayed safe?

PARKS: Well see, when I was chief of police September 11 just occurred. And so we were fortunate to have in place a terrorist task force, a terrorist division, a very good working relationship with the federal government which didn't occur throughout the nation. But what always will be an issue for what is needed as first responder equipment, also with every type of activity whether it's the port, whether it's the airport, there's all special needs, equipment, personnel, information.

But a lot of this will basically be successful only if the information flows and the analysts information is sufficient to allow to you react.

LIN: I mean, that's the bottom line, Chief Timoney, right? That you need to get the basic information. What are the feds hearing? And how does it apply to Miami? Do you think that's going to work better under Kerik? And if so, why?

TIMONEY: Well, I'm pretty familiar with Homeland Security and how it's structured in Washington. And while I have nothing against the military, there seems to have been too much of a reliance on retired military officials. You know, big city chiefs were not the at table, now they're at the head of the table. And I think Bernie will be able to -- he understands what we need. As Bernie just pointed out, we need funds for training, for equipment, but also good, hard intelligence on the ground, fresh intelligence.

LIN: But the problem is, at least on the federal level, they are very cautious about what they give out to the local level, because they don't want it to leak. They don't often trust you guys, do they?

TIMONEY: No. Unfortunately not.

PARKS: One of the things that is important is realize is that trust may not be something that is well deserved. I think the issue is that law enforcement working together have proved to be a very efficient operation. So there has to be some trust, because you can't allow a local agency to work in a void or a vacuum and hold onto information that can be helpful.

There's an understanding in local law enforcement, you can't get everything, because if all information became public it then becomes gossip. And so the issue is there's got to be relationship, there's got to be a relationship. And it starts with the local level with the local FBI, the local federal people.

LIN: With the specifics of when you go to raise the terror threat level, you need -- you guys need to know why.

Chiefs, thank you very much. Chief Bernard Parks, good to see you. And Chief John Timoney, always great to have you, thank you..

TIMONEY: Carol, think you. Very good seeing you.

PARKS: Nice seeing you, John.

LIN: Old home week right here on CNN.

Well, you may remember David Kaczynski as the man who helped authorities catch his brother Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber. Wel, that arrest has led David Kaczynski to take on a cause that's very near and dear to his heart. Alina Cho has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Ted Kaczynski was caught nearly 9 years ago in a Montana cabin he called home, it brought an 18 year FBI manhunt to an end. The Unabomber finally had a face.

Yet the search may never have ended had it been for David Kaczynski, Ted's only sibling, the man who turned him in.

DAVID KACZYNSKI, TED KACZYNSI'S BROTHER: What do you do if you think someone that you love has committed a murder?

CHO: For david, there were no easy answers.

D. KACZYNSKI: I realized it wasn't a nightmare I was having. I was literally considering the possibility that my brother was a serial killer.

CHO: For months prior to the arrest, David had worked closely with the FBI.

D. KACZYNSKI: I certainly found that they were very, very sympathetic when and talked about their suspect, which they were trying to match with our suspect, my Brother, as with a serious mental illness.

CHO (on camera): But all of that changed the day Ted was arrested.

D. KACZYNSKI: We thought we had a very strong argument in the sense that if they execute David Kaczynski's brother, the next person in my position is going to be more reluctant to come forward.

CHO (voice-over): Despite efforts by the government to seek the death penalty, Ted Kaczynski is serving a life sentence.

D. KACZYNSKI: I look at reasons why my brother's life was saved. I think my brother had attorneys far more gifted than any of the people who have sentenced to death in America. Often in this country, we're not committing the criminal who committed the worst crime, we're executing the defendant who got the worst attorney.

CHO: Why David Kaczynski is now an ardent opponent to capital punishment. As head of New Yorkers Against The Death Penalty, he even travels the country to tell his story.

D. KACZYNSKI: It was a difficult decision in some sense, because I knew it meant relinquishing my privacy.

CHO: This month, New York State will begin hearings to consider reinstating the death penalty. David sees it as an opportunity to abolish capital punishment in the state altogether.

D. KACZYNSKI: I'm totally convinced that if my brother had been executed, he wouldn't have been the person who suffered the most. The person that suffered the most would have been our mother.

CHO (on camera): Do you have regrets about turning in your brother?

D. KACZYNSKI: No, no. I do have the regrets I feel are from earlier in my life. I look back now and I wish, for Ted's sake and for his victims' sake and for their families' sake that I had just maybe been a little bit better brother.

CHO (voice-over): David still remembers the last time he saw Ted. And how he tried to convince him to leave Montana.

D. KACZYNSKI: The night before he made his decision, he said, Dave, I have too much to do around here, I think I'm going to stay. Of course, I didn't know what his activities involved, so I look back at the fact that when my brother was arrested, they found another live bomb in his cabin in Montana. The realization was clearly is if we hadn't done what we had to do, probably another person would have been killed.

CHO: He realizes his personal and painful experience is unique.

D. KACZYNSKI: The issue of the question is how do you go forward and make the best of it? And some instance it's an extraordinary privilege to be able to do that.

CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, Albany, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Still ahead on CNN LIVE SUNDAY: trying Michael Jackson. The pop star submits more evidence to authority, this time it's DNA evidence. Details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right, CNN has learned of a new development in the case against entertainer Michael Jackson. The pop star is fighting a child molestation charge, or charges. From Los Angeles, Miguel Marquez is reporting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: When Santa Barbara sheffi's investigators raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch last Friday, they were seeking a DNA sample from the pop star, CNN has confirmed.

A source also tells CNN that investigators were armed with two search warrants signed by Rodney Melvill, the Santa Barbara's superior court judge hearing the case against jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is very unusual to have this type of search so late in the game.

MARQUEZ: A source tells CNN Jackson, who was home was surprised and traumatized by the raid. Jackson submitted to having his mouth swabed by investigators on Saturday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are they just getting the dna samples now? This is a child molestation case. You would have expected that right off the bat the prosecutors and police would have gone in for these DNA samples.

MARQUEZ: Jackson is charged with four counts of lewd acts on a child, one count of attempted lews act, four counts of giving an intoxicating agent to assist in the lewd acts and one count of conspiracy. He's pleaded not guilty to all the charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know whether this means they're tying up loose ends to win this case.

MARQUEZ (on camera): One thing legal experts seem to agree on is this latest search puts in jeopardy the targeted trial date of January 31. The next pretrial hearing is scheduled for later this month. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And just minutes from now, a star-studded benefit gets under way in Washington. The red carpet arrivals at Kennedy Center Honors. Nobody's there right now, but moments ago P. Diddy had just arrived.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The star-studded 27th annual Kennedy Honors gets under way shortly in Washington, D.C. We're just going to that a live picture there. It looks like -- that looks like Bo Derek, actually. Anyway, tributes this year are going to go to Elton John, Joan Sutherland, John williams, Warren Beatty, Ozzy Davis and Ruby Dee who just arrived a few moments ago, for their lifetime contributions to American culture through performing arts.

First Lady Laura Bush greeted the honorees at a Whie House reception this afternoon. Wouldn't that be fun? There is Norm Mineta former transportation secretary. And I'm just absolutely positive that is Bo Derek.

Anyway, that's all the time we have for this hour.

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