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American Morning
Interview With Senator Joseph Lieberman; Peterson Penalty Phase
Aired December 08, 2004 - 8:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It's the biggest reform in history for U.S. intelligence, now past its biggest hurdle. But did the fight inflict some serious political wounds?
A mother pleading for her son's life. The last and perhaps the most important witness in the Peterson sentencing coming to the stand today.
And the Q&A for Donald Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our soldiers have been fighting in Iraq for coming up on three years. A lot of us are getting ready to move north relatively soon. Our vehicles are not armored.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: U.S. troops asking life-and-death questions of their boss. His answers on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'BRIEN.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.
The 9/11 reform bill could finish its trek through Congress today. Senators expected to vote after the House passed it yesterday.
This morning, we're going to talk with Senator Joe Lieberman. He is one of the co-sponsors of the original bill. That's just ahead in a few moments. We'll find out why the objections over immigrant driver's licenses couldn't have been dealt with in this particular piece of legislation.
HEMMER: Also in a moment here, Soledad, look at this videotape taken from a surveillance camera, said to show members of a high school basketball team beating up one of their team mates while the coach stood by and watched. We'll talk to a school official about what is being done now and how this all came to be.
O'BRIEN: Jack Cafferty with the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. When you look at behavior of some of the professional athletes that serve as role models for the kids, that tape of those high school kids probably wouldn't come as a big surprise.
What's wrong with pro sports? You got the Pacers fighting with the fans, you've got the steroid nonsense going on in baseball, Latrell Sprewell yelling sexual vulgarities at some woman in the seats at a Timberwolves game.
What should be done to clean up professional sports? AM@CNN.com.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack.
HEMMER: Big question with a lot of answers, too.
O'BRIEN: Yes. Thanks, Jack.
Headlines now with Heidi.
Good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys. And good morning to you, everybody.
"Now in the News," charges expected to be filed in connection with last month's basketball fight. According to video reports, five players and five fans are expected to be charged for their roles in this November 19 brawl. The fighting broke out on the court and on the stands during a Pacers-Pistons game. Prosecutors have scheduled a news conference for this afternoon.
Turning overseas now to Iraq, a roadside bombing in Baghdad. There is word at least two U.S. soldiers were hurt in that explosion, along with at least six Iraqi civilians. The bomb went off in a neighborhood in the southeastern part of the capital as a U.S. military convoy passed by.
More flu shots on the way to help boost the short supply here in the United States. Health and Human Services chief Tommy Thompson says the U.S. is buying 1.2 million doses of the flu vaccine from an FDA-approved lab in Germany. Thompson says some of the supply is in the country now and the rest will be available later this month.
And another blast of wintry weather in store for some folks in California. Check this out now.
More than a foot of snow in the mountains. This guy got a brand- new snow blower as parts of the northern part of the state and more predicted for the Sierra Nevada. Forecasters warning people, though, on the road to be aware of treacherous driving conditions.
O'BRIEN: They're loving that at Lake Tahoe. Look at that.
COLLINS: Lake Tahoe, Squaw Valley, Mammoth. Got a couple of other ones out there, yes.
HEMMER: A huge season ready.
COLLINS: Yes. HEMMER: Thank you, Heidi.
The Senate is set to vote today on legislation that would change the face of U.S. intelligence. The bill passed the House yesterday, and Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman co-authored the original Senate version of the 9/11 reform bill. He was a lead negotiator on the compromised legislation. The senator is here now with me.
Good morning, Senator. Welcome back here.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning. Good to be back with you on a good day.
HEMMER: Excellent. I want to take this away from the arguments within the House and within the Senate, what's happens at the Pentagon and the White House. Get it away from the politicians for a second here. What is good for the American people to keep them safer now, Senator?
LIEBERMAN: That's exactly the right question to ask. And that's the bottom-line question. This was all about -- that's why we create the 9/11 Commission, to answer the question, how could 9/11 have happened and what can we do to make sure it never happens again?
And the 9/11 Commission said some of the main reasons why that tragedy occurred was because no one is in charge of the American intelligence community. There was information in different places in our government, but no one forced it together so we could see this attack coming and stop it.
And what this bill will do to make the American people safer, bottom line, is to put a director of national intelligence in charge, force all the sections of our -- our system, which is spending billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money to work together, see the attacks before they're coming and stop them. I think it's a great accomplishment, and lot of people deserve to feel pretty good about it.
HEMMER: Take the last point you're making there. A Republican lawmaker from Illinois Ray LaHood, said this -- and quoting now -- "I believe creating a national intelligence director is a huge mistake. It's another bureaucracy, it's another layer of government. It would not have prevented 9/11, and it will not prevent another 9/11."
I know you disagree with that. But the point he's making is quite clear here. He doesn't believe the bill goes far enough. How would you respond?
LIEBERMAN: Well, the fact is you've got to read that 9/11 report. It's an indictment of the status quo in American intelligence.
It failed us, and to keep the status quo going is to invite the kind of failure that will bring about more attacks. We can't accept.
We've given some tough new powers to this national intelligence director. And I'm just bottom-line confident, as is Tom Kean, Lee Hamilton, the president, and a majority of both parties in Congress, that we're going to get more from the billions we're investing in intelligence after this bill becomes law.
HEMMER: But you're talking -- you're talking about the status quo. I don't believe the lawmakers who opposed the bill are saying keep everything the way it is, we're happy with the way things are going.
What they're saying is that the loopholes in this bill are not closed. James Sensenbrenner was on our air throughout the week here.
LIEBERMAN: Right.
HEMMER: Listen to what he said about not just the issue of an intelligence director, but the issue of immigration here. Listen.
LIEBERMAN: Well, the fact is we are...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: Remember that the 9/11 hijackers had multiple validly-issued state driver's licenses among them, and that's how they got on the airplanes. That is what we were trying to stop by changing the provisions in the conference report, and I regret that we failed. But I can assure you that this issue is not going to go away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: And he concludes by saying it's lacking and incomplete, Senator.
LIEBERMAN: Absolutely wrong. With all respect, the recommendations and reforms that Jim Sensenbrenner was making for driver's license issuances would not have stopped one of the 19 attackers of September 11. They unfortunately and outrageously were all here on legally-issued visas.
Sensenbrenner was trying to stop illegal immigrants from getting driver's licenses. None of these were illegal immigrants.
He raises an important point, but it's one that's so controversial that it would have dragged down the major advances in this bill to help protect the American people. And we said, "The president said immigration reform is going to be a priority next year, Jim. Wait until then."
Members of both parties greed. And that's why we're going to adopt this bill. And next year we'll get to his problems.
HEMMER: In a word, yes or no, will you support that immigration reform if it comes in January 2005 or beyond?
LIEBERMAN: In a word, I'm not sure. I want to see what he wants to do. HEMMER: OK.
LIEBERMAN: Some of the reforms that he was talking about I would support. To prohibit states making their decisions about who gets a driver's license, no.
Final word, our bill has some very tough standards for driver's licenses around the country. So we did what the 9/11 Commission wanted us to do, even on that, and the American people will be safer as a result.
HEMMER: I'm out of time. Have a great holiday.
LIEBERMAN: OK. You, too. Take care. You, too.
HEMMER: OK. Senator Joseph Lieberman. OK -- Capitol Hill -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The dust settling from that fight to get the bill to the floor. Some parts Washington ready to do their end zone dance. Others, though, licking their wounds this morning.
Kelly Wallace is totaling up the winners and the losers for us.
Good morning.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
You know politics always interesting, because some of those licking their wounds right now could end up winners in the next go- around. But some of those with the most to celebrate right at this moment, some of those people who really face the unthinkable on September 11.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): By now, you may recognize their faces. They are the biggest winners in this fight, those family members who launched a full-court press for change, like Beverly Eckert, whose husband Sean was killed in the World Trade Center attacks.
BEVERLY ECKERT, 9/11 WIDOW: It's been three years. This country has waited long enough.
WALLACE: The biggest losers, the man who calls himself the skunk at the garden party...
SENSENBRENNER: And this bill is lacking and incomplete.
WALLACE: ... House Judiciary Committee chairman James Sensenbrenner, who did not get the tougher immigration measures he wanted, and House conservatives who never thought much of the bill in the first place. But losers in this battle will be emboldened for the next one. ED HOLLINS, GOP STRATEGIST: It won't be just the president saying, you know, here's what I want and go do it, especially on the two complicated issues of tax reform and Social Security reform.
WALLACE: As for the president, he's both a winner and a loser. Here's why. This is a bill he was never overly excited about but ultimately decided it was something he had to have.
ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It was absolutely necessary for George Bush to get this bill through the Congress to discipline his Republicans and to start his new administration on a note of success, not failure.
WALLACE: The biggest question mark, will American security be a winner or a loser? Critics say the bill is nothing more than reshuffling the bureaucracy. Even the bill's most passionate supporters say it won't necessarily prevent another terrorist attack.
LICHTMAN: So remarkably, despite all the pressure to pass this bill, it is uncertain whether it will make us one bit safer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: But what we do know is that whomever gets this job of director of national intelligence, Soledad, he or she faces an unthinkable challenge, really, monitoring a $40 billion budget. The budgets of 15 different intelligence agencies.
O'BRIEN: Who's the overall biggest winner in all of this, would you say?
WALLACE: I think it's fair to say the families. Those families which would say they lost loved ones who wanted the September 11th Commission and wanted intelligence reform, because, as you know, there were other families who lost loved ones who thought this bill didn't go far enough or that it was just moving the bureaucracy around. But some of those families who were on Capitol Hill, at the white House, every television show they could do, they really helped put the pressure on.
O'BRIEN: Big victory for them today. Kelly Wallace, thanks, as always. Nice to have you.
WALLACE: Always great to see.
O'BRIEN: Thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: The secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, traveling overseas, hit with some pretty pointed questions from U.S. soldiers in Kuwait who are waiting to be deployed north to Iraq. The troops asked Rumsfeld about a variety of issues, including the military's stop-loss policy, the loss of travel pay, and the lack of what they consider improper equipment.
Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our soldiers have been fighting in Iraq for coming up on three years. A lot of us are getting ready to move north relatively soon.
Our vehicles are not armored. We're digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass that's already been shot up, dropped, busted, picking the best out of this scrap to put on our vehicles to take into combat. We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I talked -- I talked to the general coming out here about the pace at which the vehicles are being armored. They have been brought from all over the world, wherever they're not needed, to a place here where they are needed.
I'm told they're being -- the Army is -- I think it's something like 400 a month are being done. And it's essentially a matter of physics, it isn't a matter of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Again, Secretary Rumsfeld in Kuwait there, expected to meet with the Indian prime minister tomorrow in New Delhi, talking about arm sales between the U.S., India and Pakistan -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: On the seventh day of testimony, Scott Peterson's defense will rest in the trial sentencing phase, but not before one final testimonial for the convicted killer from Peterson's mother. CNN's Rusty Dornin live for us in Redwood City, with the very latest on this case.
Rusty, good morning.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Well, throughout this penalty phase, the defense strategy has been to try to convince the jury of the horrific impact that a death sentence would have on the Peterson family. After the jury was dismissed for the day yesterday, defense attorney Mark Geragos told the judge Jackie Peterson is just as much of a victim as Sharon Rocha. He wanted an instruction about sympathy to be included in the jury instructions.
The judge disagreed. In California, that is against the law. That will not be allowed. But that doesn't mean that Jackie Peterson will not be trying to appeal to the sympathies of this jury.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DORNIN (voice-over): She has been depicted as the backbone of the family. As the last witness for the defense, Scott Peterson's mother Jackie will for the first time make a direct plea to save him from execution. A pitch for sympathy that legal analysts say could have mixed results. DEAN JOHNSON, LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think there's any question that this jury is going to feel some sympathy for her. But it cannot be all about the Peterson family, and it certainly cannot be about blaming this jury for her pain.
DORNIN: Some members of the Peterson family, along with other witnesses, have told the jury that convicted him they don't believe Scott could have killed his pregnant wife Laci. One of six witnesses Tuesday told a bizarre story about a dogfight that took place when he lived next door to Scott and Laci Peterson.
Eric Sherar (ph) said Laci punched his dog to try to stop the fight, but then Scott stepped in and calmly dealt with the situation. Another testimonial about Peterson's prowess as a problem solver.
Laci's mother, Sharon Rocha, broke down when a restaurant owner wept on the stand, describing how Scott and Laci met at his cafe. But it was a neighbor telling the story of her own father, witnessing an execution, says one legal analyst, that might have impacted the jury. Susan Medina said her father was never the same afterward.
JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: She really summed up one of the most powerful arguments against the death penalty, which is that it really affects everybody, that it ruins everyone's lives, that it's not a solution.
DORNIN: But it is a solution that this jury must consider when they begin deliberations Thursday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DORNIN: We are expecting a short day, however. There will be four or five witness. Jackie Peterson will be the last of those. But the judge is saying the summations will happen tomorrow. He'll give the jury instructions, and then they will begin the deliberations -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Rusty Dornin in Redwood City this morning. Rusty, thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right. A check of the weather now. Rob Marciano is working for Chad Myers at home, probably up all night watchingly that new baby.
Hey, Rob. Good morning.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Bill.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rob.
Still to come this morning, it is the leading cause of death in babies under the age of one. Now there's new advice how parents can prevent Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. HEMMER: Also in a moment here, a shocking beating caught on camera. A high school coach could be in more trouble than the kids involved. We'll explain that, too, as we continue.
A break here. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Did a Mobile, Alabama, high school coach stand by as some of his players beat a teammate. BC Rain High basketball coach Marion Dunn has been suspended. He is facing possible dismissal as a result of this surveillance videotape.
Harold Dodge is the superintendent of the Mobile County public school system, joining us this morning.
Give me a sense, sir, of what you see on the tapes as we watch it. What do you think is so egregious that the coach has done that you see by this videotape?
HAROLD DODGE, SUPERINTENDENT, MOBILE COUNTY: Well, it's just so unfortunate and it's so much out of character. We have 15 high schools, and we have an outstanding core of coaches. And -- but in this particular video, the students have put together a plan that when someone got out of order, that they would discipline the student themselves. So there's a kicking and a shoving and a hitting.
We actually have explicit accounts from each student. You will notice, by the way, that there are two children who are not participating at all. They were not suspended.
O'BRIEN: And there -- we saw them in the videotape standing off to the side.
DODGE: That's correct.
O'BRIEN: Is there any indication that the coach, Marion Dunn, has -- is encouraging the students, has told them what to do, has told them to mete out this punishment?
DODGE: The testimony is that it was the students' idea, and that the students actually executed the plan. However, the video clearly shows that it's being timed by the coach, who leaves for a period of one minute.
Then the student in question says, "I quit. I don't want to be on the team." And he gets 30 seconds more of discipline because he, "had an attitude."
We find that completely unacceptable. We're really, really proud of our kids across the system. This is just egregious.
O'BRIEN: What did Coach Dunn say to you when he was confronted with this videotape? Our attempts to contact him to get him to comment on this were unsuccessful. DODGE: He has not talked with me at all. We use our own investigative team to do a very thorough job. They've investigated all parties.
The basic answer is, "It was not my plan. The kids put it into effect, and therefore, I'm not responsible." And I'm sorry, I just don't see it.
O'BRIEN: Doesn't he have a point there? If it's sort of a ritual that was designed and implemated (ph) -- implemented, rather, by the kids, you know -- and these are not small guys, these are big guys on the basketball team -- maybe he didn't want to intervene.
DODGE: He's still in control. You know, you used -- the operative term is that they are kids. And they are kids, and they had made a bad decision. And adult teachers and adult coaches are the ones that stop and halt bad decisions like that.
This whole thing is a bad decision and a bad plan. And the coach should have stopped it at its very outset.
O'BRIEN: The young man who was beaten by his teammates, what's his condition? How's he doing?
DODGE: He's fine, and he quit the team. You know, he walked away from it.
There was some tension the first day of school back when other kids found out that the young man had been beat. But the administration and teachers and the other students settled that tension very quickly.
O'BRIEN: What would you like to see happen to Coach Dunn?
DODGE: Well, I wish it never happened, and I wish we were never even at this point. However, I have no choice but to recommend to the school board dismissal.
O'BRIEN: Harold Dodge is the superintendent from the Mobile County public school system. Thanks for talking with us this morning. Appreciate it.
DODGE: Thank you for your time.
HEMMER: In a moment here, most lottery winners think about a new house, maybe a vacation. Meet two good samaritans who put their millions to a noble and loving cause. We'll show you their story in a moment here back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Bad behavior is the topic of the "Question of the Day."
Hello.
CAFFERTY: And I'm just the guy to report on it. Bad behavior in pro sports.
We had the steroid thing, the brawl with the Indiana Pacers and the fans. We had Latrell Sprewell screaming a sexual vulgarity at a woman in the seats at a Timberwolves game.
So what should be done to clean up the games, pro sports?
Michelle in Buffalo, New York, writes this: "Get rid of them. Get rid of all of them. Here in my beloved city, Buffalo, New York, we're paying off the construction of a new arena for a hockey team that isn't playing, and for improvements on a football stadium that will never, ever pay for itself, as the politicians who put through the funding said it would. But the public library, school nurses and several other services that benefits are about to be shut down."
Jerry in Alpharetta, Georgia, "Since it's a team sport, the entire team should be penalized for rules violations by an individual player. For example, suspension for the team for playoff spots. Suspension of the team for a season. Place contingencies on team ownership upon meeting all of the rules of the league, stop focusing on the individual. Focus on the team."
Larry in Crystal Beach, Texas, "Don't pay professional athletes unless they win. That way they'll focus on the game instead of on the fans."
And dean in Marlton, New Jersey, "I suggest we stop pussy-footing around, give the public what they really want: gladiatorial combat. That way the athletes can use all the steroids they want because they won't live very long anyway. And let's face it, nobody is going to throw a beer on a guy who's carrying a sword or a lance."
HEMMER: That's what I'm talk about.
O'BRIEN: Wow.
CAFFERTY: All kinds of ideas.
O'BRIEN: That's an idea.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Interesting comments. All right, Jack. Thanks.
Still to come this morning, your Wednesday edition of "90-Second Pop."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): The music biz sets the stage for its biggest bash of the year. What's the biggest surprise about the Grammy nominations?
Plus, Martha Stewart behind bars, but already working on her next gig.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired December 8, 2004 - 8:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It's the biggest reform in history for U.S. intelligence, now past its biggest hurdle. But did the fight inflict some serious political wounds?
A mother pleading for her son's life. The last and perhaps the most important witness in the Peterson sentencing coming to the stand today.
And the Q&A for Donald Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our soldiers have been fighting in Iraq for coming up on three years. A lot of us are getting ready to move north relatively soon. Our vehicles are not armored.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: U.S. troops asking life-and-death questions of their boss. His answers on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'BRIEN.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.
The 9/11 reform bill could finish its trek through Congress today. Senators expected to vote after the House passed it yesterday.
This morning, we're going to talk with Senator Joe Lieberman. He is one of the co-sponsors of the original bill. That's just ahead in a few moments. We'll find out why the objections over immigrant driver's licenses couldn't have been dealt with in this particular piece of legislation.
HEMMER: Also in a moment here, Soledad, look at this videotape taken from a surveillance camera, said to show members of a high school basketball team beating up one of their team mates while the coach stood by and watched. We'll talk to a school official about what is being done now and how this all came to be.
O'BRIEN: Jack Cafferty with the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. When you look at behavior of some of the professional athletes that serve as role models for the kids, that tape of those high school kids probably wouldn't come as a big surprise.
What's wrong with pro sports? You got the Pacers fighting with the fans, you've got the steroid nonsense going on in baseball, Latrell Sprewell yelling sexual vulgarities at some woman in the seats at a Timberwolves game.
What should be done to clean up professional sports? AM@CNN.com.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack.
HEMMER: Big question with a lot of answers, too.
O'BRIEN: Yes. Thanks, Jack.
Headlines now with Heidi.
Good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys. And good morning to you, everybody.
"Now in the News," charges expected to be filed in connection with last month's basketball fight. According to video reports, five players and five fans are expected to be charged for their roles in this November 19 brawl. The fighting broke out on the court and on the stands during a Pacers-Pistons game. Prosecutors have scheduled a news conference for this afternoon.
Turning overseas now to Iraq, a roadside bombing in Baghdad. There is word at least two U.S. soldiers were hurt in that explosion, along with at least six Iraqi civilians. The bomb went off in a neighborhood in the southeastern part of the capital as a U.S. military convoy passed by.
More flu shots on the way to help boost the short supply here in the United States. Health and Human Services chief Tommy Thompson says the U.S. is buying 1.2 million doses of the flu vaccine from an FDA-approved lab in Germany. Thompson says some of the supply is in the country now and the rest will be available later this month.
And another blast of wintry weather in store for some folks in California. Check this out now.
More than a foot of snow in the mountains. This guy got a brand- new snow blower as parts of the northern part of the state and more predicted for the Sierra Nevada. Forecasters warning people, though, on the road to be aware of treacherous driving conditions.
O'BRIEN: They're loving that at Lake Tahoe. Look at that.
COLLINS: Lake Tahoe, Squaw Valley, Mammoth. Got a couple of other ones out there, yes.
HEMMER: A huge season ready.
COLLINS: Yes. HEMMER: Thank you, Heidi.
The Senate is set to vote today on legislation that would change the face of U.S. intelligence. The bill passed the House yesterday, and Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman co-authored the original Senate version of the 9/11 reform bill. He was a lead negotiator on the compromised legislation. The senator is here now with me.
Good morning, Senator. Welcome back here.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning. Good to be back with you on a good day.
HEMMER: Excellent. I want to take this away from the arguments within the House and within the Senate, what's happens at the Pentagon and the White House. Get it away from the politicians for a second here. What is good for the American people to keep them safer now, Senator?
LIEBERMAN: That's exactly the right question to ask. And that's the bottom-line question. This was all about -- that's why we create the 9/11 Commission, to answer the question, how could 9/11 have happened and what can we do to make sure it never happens again?
And the 9/11 Commission said some of the main reasons why that tragedy occurred was because no one is in charge of the American intelligence community. There was information in different places in our government, but no one forced it together so we could see this attack coming and stop it.
And what this bill will do to make the American people safer, bottom line, is to put a director of national intelligence in charge, force all the sections of our -- our system, which is spending billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money to work together, see the attacks before they're coming and stop them. I think it's a great accomplishment, and lot of people deserve to feel pretty good about it.
HEMMER: Take the last point you're making there. A Republican lawmaker from Illinois Ray LaHood, said this -- and quoting now -- "I believe creating a national intelligence director is a huge mistake. It's another bureaucracy, it's another layer of government. It would not have prevented 9/11, and it will not prevent another 9/11."
I know you disagree with that. But the point he's making is quite clear here. He doesn't believe the bill goes far enough. How would you respond?
LIEBERMAN: Well, the fact is you've got to read that 9/11 report. It's an indictment of the status quo in American intelligence.
It failed us, and to keep the status quo going is to invite the kind of failure that will bring about more attacks. We can't accept.
We've given some tough new powers to this national intelligence director. And I'm just bottom-line confident, as is Tom Kean, Lee Hamilton, the president, and a majority of both parties in Congress, that we're going to get more from the billions we're investing in intelligence after this bill becomes law.
HEMMER: But you're talking -- you're talking about the status quo. I don't believe the lawmakers who opposed the bill are saying keep everything the way it is, we're happy with the way things are going.
What they're saying is that the loopholes in this bill are not closed. James Sensenbrenner was on our air throughout the week here.
LIEBERMAN: Right.
HEMMER: Listen to what he said about not just the issue of an intelligence director, but the issue of immigration here. Listen.
LIEBERMAN: Well, the fact is we are...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: Remember that the 9/11 hijackers had multiple validly-issued state driver's licenses among them, and that's how they got on the airplanes. That is what we were trying to stop by changing the provisions in the conference report, and I regret that we failed. But I can assure you that this issue is not going to go away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: And he concludes by saying it's lacking and incomplete, Senator.
LIEBERMAN: Absolutely wrong. With all respect, the recommendations and reforms that Jim Sensenbrenner was making for driver's license issuances would not have stopped one of the 19 attackers of September 11. They unfortunately and outrageously were all here on legally-issued visas.
Sensenbrenner was trying to stop illegal immigrants from getting driver's licenses. None of these were illegal immigrants.
He raises an important point, but it's one that's so controversial that it would have dragged down the major advances in this bill to help protect the American people. And we said, "The president said immigration reform is going to be a priority next year, Jim. Wait until then."
Members of both parties greed. And that's why we're going to adopt this bill. And next year we'll get to his problems.
HEMMER: In a word, yes or no, will you support that immigration reform if it comes in January 2005 or beyond?
LIEBERMAN: In a word, I'm not sure. I want to see what he wants to do. HEMMER: OK.
LIEBERMAN: Some of the reforms that he was talking about I would support. To prohibit states making their decisions about who gets a driver's license, no.
Final word, our bill has some very tough standards for driver's licenses around the country. So we did what the 9/11 Commission wanted us to do, even on that, and the American people will be safer as a result.
HEMMER: I'm out of time. Have a great holiday.
LIEBERMAN: OK. You, too. Take care. You, too.
HEMMER: OK. Senator Joseph Lieberman. OK -- Capitol Hill -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The dust settling from that fight to get the bill to the floor. Some parts Washington ready to do their end zone dance. Others, though, licking their wounds this morning.
Kelly Wallace is totaling up the winners and the losers for us.
Good morning.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
You know politics always interesting, because some of those licking their wounds right now could end up winners in the next go- around. But some of those with the most to celebrate right at this moment, some of those people who really face the unthinkable on September 11.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): By now, you may recognize their faces. They are the biggest winners in this fight, those family members who launched a full-court press for change, like Beverly Eckert, whose husband Sean was killed in the World Trade Center attacks.
BEVERLY ECKERT, 9/11 WIDOW: It's been three years. This country has waited long enough.
WALLACE: The biggest losers, the man who calls himself the skunk at the garden party...
SENSENBRENNER: And this bill is lacking and incomplete.
WALLACE: ... House Judiciary Committee chairman James Sensenbrenner, who did not get the tougher immigration measures he wanted, and House conservatives who never thought much of the bill in the first place. But losers in this battle will be emboldened for the next one. ED HOLLINS, GOP STRATEGIST: It won't be just the president saying, you know, here's what I want and go do it, especially on the two complicated issues of tax reform and Social Security reform.
WALLACE: As for the president, he's both a winner and a loser. Here's why. This is a bill he was never overly excited about but ultimately decided it was something he had to have.
ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It was absolutely necessary for George Bush to get this bill through the Congress to discipline his Republicans and to start his new administration on a note of success, not failure.
WALLACE: The biggest question mark, will American security be a winner or a loser? Critics say the bill is nothing more than reshuffling the bureaucracy. Even the bill's most passionate supporters say it won't necessarily prevent another terrorist attack.
LICHTMAN: So remarkably, despite all the pressure to pass this bill, it is uncertain whether it will make us one bit safer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: But what we do know is that whomever gets this job of director of national intelligence, Soledad, he or she faces an unthinkable challenge, really, monitoring a $40 billion budget. The budgets of 15 different intelligence agencies.
O'BRIEN: Who's the overall biggest winner in all of this, would you say?
WALLACE: I think it's fair to say the families. Those families which would say they lost loved ones who wanted the September 11th Commission and wanted intelligence reform, because, as you know, there were other families who lost loved ones who thought this bill didn't go far enough or that it was just moving the bureaucracy around. But some of those families who were on Capitol Hill, at the white House, every television show they could do, they really helped put the pressure on.
O'BRIEN: Big victory for them today. Kelly Wallace, thanks, as always. Nice to have you.
WALLACE: Always great to see.
O'BRIEN: Thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: The secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, traveling overseas, hit with some pretty pointed questions from U.S. soldiers in Kuwait who are waiting to be deployed north to Iraq. The troops asked Rumsfeld about a variety of issues, including the military's stop-loss policy, the loss of travel pay, and the lack of what they consider improper equipment.
Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our soldiers have been fighting in Iraq for coming up on three years. A lot of us are getting ready to move north relatively soon.
Our vehicles are not armored. We're digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass that's already been shot up, dropped, busted, picking the best out of this scrap to put on our vehicles to take into combat. We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I talked -- I talked to the general coming out here about the pace at which the vehicles are being armored. They have been brought from all over the world, wherever they're not needed, to a place here where they are needed.
I'm told they're being -- the Army is -- I think it's something like 400 a month are being done. And it's essentially a matter of physics, it isn't a matter of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Again, Secretary Rumsfeld in Kuwait there, expected to meet with the Indian prime minister tomorrow in New Delhi, talking about arm sales between the U.S., India and Pakistan -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: On the seventh day of testimony, Scott Peterson's defense will rest in the trial sentencing phase, but not before one final testimonial for the convicted killer from Peterson's mother. CNN's Rusty Dornin live for us in Redwood City, with the very latest on this case.
Rusty, good morning.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Well, throughout this penalty phase, the defense strategy has been to try to convince the jury of the horrific impact that a death sentence would have on the Peterson family. After the jury was dismissed for the day yesterday, defense attorney Mark Geragos told the judge Jackie Peterson is just as much of a victim as Sharon Rocha. He wanted an instruction about sympathy to be included in the jury instructions.
The judge disagreed. In California, that is against the law. That will not be allowed. But that doesn't mean that Jackie Peterson will not be trying to appeal to the sympathies of this jury.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DORNIN (voice-over): She has been depicted as the backbone of the family. As the last witness for the defense, Scott Peterson's mother Jackie will for the first time make a direct plea to save him from execution. A pitch for sympathy that legal analysts say could have mixed results. DEAN JOHNSON, LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think there's any question that this jury is going to feel some sympathy for her. But it cannot be all about the Peterson family, and it certainly cannot be about blaming this jury for her pain.
DORNIN: Some members of the Peterson family, along with other witnesses, have told the jury that convicted him they don't believe Scott could have killed his pregnant wife Laci. One of six witnesses Tuesday told a bizarre story about a dogfight that took place when he lived next door to Scott and Laci Peterson.
Eric Sherar (ph) said Laci punched his dog to try to stop the fight, but then Scott stepped in and calmly dealt with the situation. Another testimonial about Peterson's prowess as a problem solver.
Laci's mother, Sharon Rocha, broke down when a restaurant owner wept on the stand, describing how Scott and Laci met at his cafe. But it was a neighbor telling the story of her own father, witnessing an execution, says one legal analyst, that might have impacted the jury. Susan Medina said her father was never the same afterward.
JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: She really summed up one of the most powerful arguments against the death penalty, which is that it really affects everybody, that it ruins everyone's lives, that it's not a solution.
DORNIN: But it is a solution that this jury must consider when they begin deliberations Thursday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DORNIN: We are expecting a short day, however. There will be four or five witness. Jackie Peterson will be the last of those. But the judge is saying the summations will happen tomorrow. He'll give the jury instructions, and then they will begin the deliberations -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Rusty Dornin in Redwood City this morning. Rusty, thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right. A check of the weather now. Rob Marciano is working for Chad Myers at home, probably up all night watchingly that new baby.
Hey, Rob. Good morning.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Bill.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rob.
Still to come this morning, it is the leading cause of death in babies under the age of one. Now there's new advice how parents can prevent Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. HEMMER: Also in a moment here, a shocking beating caught on camera. A high school coach could be in more trouble than the kids involved. We'll explain that, too, as we continue.
A break here. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Did a Mobile, Alabama, high school coach stand by as some of his players beat a teammate. BC Rain High basketball coach Marion Dunn has been suspended. He is facing possible dismissal as a result of this surveillance videotape.
Harold Dodge is the superintendent of the Mobile County public school system, joining us this morning.
Give me a sense, sir, of what you see on the tapes as we watch it. What do you think is so egregious that the coach has done that you see by this videotape?
HAROLD DODGE, SUPERINTENDENT, MOBILE COUNTY: Well, it's just so unfortunate and it's so much out of character. We have 15 high schools, and we have an outstanding core of coaches. And -- but in this particular video, the students have put together a plan that when someone got out of order, that they would discipline the student themselves. So there's a kicking and a shoving and a hitting.
We actually have explicit accounts from each student. You will notice, by the way, that there are two children who are not participating at all. They were not suspended.
O'BRIEN: And there -- we saw them in the videotape standing off to the side.
DODGE: That's correct.
O'BRIEN: Is there any indication that the coach, Marion Dunn, has -- is encouraging the students, has told them what to do, has told them to mete out this punishment?
DODGE: The testimony is that it was the students' idea, and that the students actually executed the plan. However, the video clearly shows that it's being timed by the coach, who leaves for a period of one minute.
Then the student in question says, "I quit. I don't want to be on the team." And he gets 30 seconds more of discipline because he, "had an attitude."
We find that completely unacceptable. We're really, really proud of our kids across the system. This is just egregious.
O'BRIEN: What did Coach Dunn say to you when he was confronted with this videotape? Our attempts to contact him to get him to comment on this were unsuccessful. DODGE: He has not talked with me at all. We use our own investigative team to do a very thorough job. They've investigated all parties.
The basic answer is, "It was not my plan. The kids put it into effect, and therefore, I'm not responsible." And I'm sorry, I just don't see it.
O'BRIEN: Doesn't he have a point there? If it's sort of a ritual that was designed and implemated (ph) -- implemented, rather, by the kids, you know -- and these are not small guys, these are big guys on the basketball team -- maybe he didn't want to intervene.
DODGE: He's still in control. You know, you used -- the operative term is that they are kids. And they are kids, and they had made a bad decision. And adult teachers and adult coaches are the ones that stop and halt bad decisions like that.
This whole thing is a bad decision and a bad plan. And the coach should have stopped it at its very outset.
O'BRIEN: The young man who was beaten by his teammates, what's his condition? How's he doing?
DODGE: He's fine, and he quit the team. You know, he walked away from it.
There was some tension the first day of school back when other kids found out that the young man had been beat. But the administration and teachers and the other students settled that tension very quickly.
O'BRIEN: What would you like to see happen to Coach Dunn?
DODGE: Well, I wish it never happened, and I wish we were never even at this point. However, I have no choice but to recommend to the school board dismissal.
O'BRIEN: Harold Dodge is the superintendent from the Mobile County public school system. Thanks for talking with us this morning. Appreciate it.
DODGE: Thank you for your time.
HEMMER: In a moment here, most lottery winners think about a new house, maybe a vacation. Meet two good samaritans who put their millions to a noble and loving cause. We'll show you their story in a moment here back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Bad behavior is the topic of the "Question of the Day."
Hello.
CAFFERTY: And I'm just the guy to report on it. Bad behavior in pro sports.
We had the steroid thing, the brawl with the Indiana Pacers and the fans. We had Latrell Sprewell screaming a sexual vulgarity at a woman in the seats at a Timberwolves game.
So what should be done to clean up the games, pro sports?
Michelle in Buffalo, New York, writes this: "Get rid of them. Get rid of all of them. Here in my beloved city, Buffalo, New York, we're paying off the construction of a new arena for a hockey team that isn't playing, and for improvements on a football stadium that will never, ever pay for itself, as the politicians who put through the funding said it would. But the public library, school nurses and several other services that benefits are about to be shut down."
Jerry in Alpharetta, Georgia, "Since it's a team sport, the entire team should be penalized for rules violations by an individual player. For example, suspension for the team for playoff spots. Suspension of the team for a season. Place contingencies on team ownership upon meeting all of the rules of the league, stop focusing on the individual. Focus on the team."
Larry in Crystal Beach, Texas, "Don't pay professional athletes unless they win. That way they'll focus on the game instead of on the fans."
And dean in Marlton, New Jersey, "I suggest we stop pussy-footing around, give the public what they really want: gladiatorial combat. That way the athletes can use all the steroids they want because they won't live very long anyway. And let's face it, nobody is going to throw a beer on a guy who's carrying a sword or a lance."
HEMMER: That's what I'm talk about.
O'BRIEN: Wow.
CAFFERTY: All kinds of ideas.
O'BRIEN: That's an idea.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Interesting comments. All right, Jack. Thanks.
Still to come this morning, your Wednesday edition of "90-Second Pop."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): The music biz sets the stage for its biggest bash of the year. What's the biggest surprise about the Grammy nominations?
Plus, Martha Stewart behind bars, but already working on her next gig.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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