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American Morning
Five People Dead in Ohio After Gunman Opens Fire on Heavy Metal Band
Aired December 09, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Five people dead in Ohio after the gunman opens fire on the heavy metal band called Damageplan.
Fists were flying. Now criminal charges are, too. For fans who threw the beers, what's their defense?
And Scott Peterson's mother giving dramatic testimony of a family hit again and again by tragedy. But is the jury moved by any of it, on this AMERICAN MORNING?
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Good morning, everybody.
8:00 here in New York.
Good to have you along with us today.
Good morning again to you.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: A lot of people telling their side of the story today again after criminal charges were filed in that -- after that big fight in the NBA. Five players, five fans looking at various counts of assault and battery. In a few minutes, we'll hear from one of them, also, his lawyer, Geoffrey Fieger. How far can they really take this claim of self-defense? We'll get to the bottom of that in a matter of moments.
O'BRIEN: Lawyers, lawyers everywhere.
Also this morning, a little bit later, we go "On Terror's Trail," following up on that deadly strike against an American consulate in Saudi Arabia. One of the militants that was involved in the attacks is captured. Is he talking? We'll find out about that.
HEMMER: All right, Jack Cafferty is back with us again, as always -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File," Brian Williams, who replaced Tom Brokaw over there at the peacock network on the Nightly News, less than a week into the new job, managed to get his foot right in his mouth in an interview with a newspaper, a magazine reporter. And we'll tell you what he said.
And some heartless morons on Fifth Avenue here in New York have torn down the nest of two beloved red-tailed hawks who have lived in this city for a number of years. And don't you know the tenants of the building, including Mary Tyler Moore, are steamed? And they ought to be. That would be in "The File" a bit later for you.
O'BRIEN: Good "File" today.
CAFFERTY: Not bad.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack, thanks.
Headlines now with Heidi Collins -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you guys.
And good morning, everybody.
Now in the news, the 9/11 intelligence overhaul bill on its way to President Bush's desk. The Senate easily passed the measure yesterday. Once again, the bill will overhaul the U.S. intelligence community by placing the budgets of 15 spy agencies under a new post of national intelligence director.
In California, closing arguments expected to begin in the penalty phase of Scott Peterson's trial. Prosecutors and the defense attorneys will get to make their case in the next four hours, when proceedings are set to begin. The jury could begin deliberating on whether to sentence Peterson to death or life in prison. Yesterday, jurors heard tearful testimony from Peterson's mother, who pleaded for them to spare her son's life.
Rescuers in the Philippines still digging through the rubble from a round of devastating storms. Rescuers were able to pull four people out alive today. The survivors have been trapped for 10 days in debris of a collapsed building. The storms in the Philippines have claimed more than 800 lives and apparently still quite a few people missing. Those people who were pulled out, they were like hiding in the kitchen, holed up in the kitchen of the building.
HEMMER: They're lucky to be alive.
COLLINS: Absolutely.
HEMMER: Yes.
Thank you, Heidi.
A dozen people, players and fans, now charged in that mess in Michigan. The fight broke out three weeks ago when a Pistons' fan hit Ron Artest of the Pacers with a cup of liquid. Several Pacers followed Artest into the stands. Fans who threw fists and more liquid were charged yesterday with misdemeanor assault and battery. One fan accused of throwing a chair got a felony assault charge. Five players also charged with misdemeanor assault and battery -- two counts for Jermaine O'Neal, one count each for Ron Artest and Steven Jackson, Anthony Johnson and David Harrison.
Misdemeanor assault charges carry a maximum penalty of 93 days in jail and a $500 fine. The felony charge, though, could mean up to four years behind bars. The prosecutor does not expect any first time offenders, though, to end up in jail.
Bill Paulson is one of the fans charged.
He and his lawyer, Geoffrey Fieger, with me now from Southfield, Michigan.
And gentlemen, welcome here.
GEOFFREY FIEGER, ATTORNEY: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: And good morning.
We heard from the prosecutor yesterday. Listen to how he sums up his version of events against you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GORCYCA, OAKLAND COUNTY PROSECUTOR: This is Paulson, Green and Artest. As you'll observe in a minute, Paulson throws a cup of liquid substance -- we're not sure what it is, beer or water -- into the face of Artest. Now, as I said, spitting in the face constitutes a battery. It would be analogous to a liquid substance striking Artest. So assault and battery against Artest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: So he says throwing a cup of liquid of some sort, as he describes there.
Bill, what is your version, based on what the prosecutor presented yesterday?
WILLIAM PAULSON, CHARGED IN BASKET BRAWL: Well, it's -- Ron Artest came into the stands. He attacked my friend, Mike. Me and him were there. I've known him for almost 20 years. And he had Mike on the ground with his fist up and Mike kept saying, "I didn't do it, I didn't do it." And Ron Artest kept saying, "Did you do it? Did you do it?"
And I came in, grabbed him with my left hand and said stop it twice. And then, you know, I did whatever, what anybody would do, I would assume, and just tried to help my friend.
HEMMER: Do you consider yourself defending yourself? Was this self-defense? Is that how you categorize it, Bill?
PAULSON: My friend, absolutely. He had his head pinned back against a chair with a 250-pound man ready to punch him. I didn't know what else to do.
HEMMER: How, then, describe for us how is throwing a beer -- was it a beer, by the way, or was it a soft drink or what was it?
PAULSON: It was a beer.
HEMMER: It was a beer.
PAULSON: Yes.
HEMMER: How was that self-defense? How was that going to get him off you?
FIEGER: Wait. What do you mean how is that self-defense?
HEMMER: I'm just trying to get some answers, Geoffrey. Hang on one second.
Bill, go ahead.
FIEGER: A seven foot, 300 pound wild man comes into the stands, starts beating up an innocent man. His best friend is sitting next to him and he comes to defend him. He could have picked up a stick and hit him with it. He should be given an award. What do you mean throwing a beer in the guy's face to try to stop a wild man from assaulting your friend sitting next to you? Who wouldn't do that?
HEMMER: You know, Bill, there is another thing in here that I understand, Steven Jackson was also charged yesterday, accused of hitting you.
FIEGER: That's right.
HEMMER: Is -- hang on one second, Geoffrey.
Let me get it from your client, if I could.
Bill, is that the case? And what happened there?
FIEGER: Jackson hit him. He cold cocked him. You can see the tape.
HEMMER: Bill, what is your version of events for what Steven Jackson did to you?
PAULSON: Well, the next thing I knew, Steven Jackson was coming into the stands and he hit me up there in the back of the head. And I was trying to get away and he kept coming after me. But he was restrained. But I got a concussion and it hurt pretty badly.
HEMMER: Geoffrey, tell me...
FIEGER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
HEMMER: Geoffrey, go ahead and tell me how will you defend your client on these charges? FIEGER: He doesn't, take a look at the tape. Two wild men come into the stands. They didn't do anything. They're just sitting there. And these wild men are allegedly looking for somebody who hit Ron Artest in the stomach with some liquid and they start assaulting everyone. They take his friend, they put him on the ground, he begins beating him and he comes to his rescue.
Now, what jury is going to say that he's guilty of some crime? I mean that's nuts. That's not going to happen. The only people guilty of crimes in this situation are Artest and O'Neal.
HEMMER: Geoffrey, have you filed a civil suit on Bill's behalf...
FIEGER: Yes, of course.
HEMMER: Against whom?
FIEGER: Against the Pacers n against the individuals who assaulted Bill.
HEMMER: And on the grounds of assault or something else?
FIEGER: No. It's assault, negligence against the Pacers and against the individuals.
HEMMER: One more matter here, if I could, Geoffrey.
You also represent the Ackermans, is that right?
FIEGER: That's right.
HEMMER: There is a John Ackerman, Sr. and a John Ackerman, Jr.
Was one struck with a chair?
FIEGER: Yes, Mr. Ackerman is the gentleman who not only was struck by a chair, but was struck prior to that time in the back of the head by Jermaine O'Neal. And his son was defending him. And his son threw some liquid, allegedly, on Jermaine O'Neal. Now, I mean this is just silliness. In these two instances -- I'm not defending, by the way, somebody who threw a liquid out onto the floor and hit Artest initially. What I'm defending and who I'm talking about now are two innocent people who are defending themselves against wild men who started a riot within the Detroit Pistons' stands.
HEMMER: We will leave it there, for today, anyway. But I'm certain we'll return another day very soon.
Thank you both, gentlemen, there in the south of Michigan, Geoffrey Fieger, the attorney, and Bill Paulson, the client there in Michigan this morning.
PAULSON: Thanks.
HEMMER: Sure -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: Deadly gunfire in a crowded Ohio nightclub last night. A gunman jumped onto the stage and opened fire on the band then turned it onto the crowd before he was killed by a police officer.
Tracy McCool of WJW-TV has the very latest for us from Columbus.
TRACY MCCOOL, WJW-TV CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning.
A deadly night here in Columbus. We're live outside the Alrosa Villa here in Columbus. Five people confirmed dead, including the shooter. Now, a number of people gathered here last night to see the band called Damageplan. They were just seconds into their first song when shots rang out.
The band, again, taking the stage last night right around 10:18. Witnesses say that's when they saw a man with a gun walk up to the stage and start firing. Witnesses say the band's guitarist, Darrell "Dimebag" Abbott, was shot at close range at least five times. Eventually, the gunman turned his gun on the crowd. Witnesses say at first they really just thought this was part of the act, but soon realized that something was very, very wrong.
There was uniform officer in the area when the call for help came in. Witnesses say when that officer stepped inside the building, the gunman still firing, also had taken a hostage. That's when the officer fired, killing the suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His response time was less than two minutes, I believe. And I think that were thankful that he did what he did and how he did it, or we'd have had probably numerous more deaths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCOOL: And, again, the investigation continues here in Columbus. Five dead, including the shooter. You can see that police behind me near here now have the scene secure. Just a few moments ago, somebody drove by, dropping off some flowers. And the detectives spent the night interviewing a number of witnesses. We understand that some 250 people were inside the building when this shooting took place.
Now, police still gathering information on the victims, but we have been able to confirm that Danny Abbott, Darrell Abbott, rather, was killed in the shooting.
O'BRIEN: As you say, Tracy, obviously it's very early on in the investigation. But is there any indication that the gunman knew members of the band in any sort of a personal way?
MCCOOL: That is a very good question. Police certainly looking into that, because according to what we are getting from all of the witnesses, they say it was apparent that the band was being targeted in this. So police are looking to see whether or not there was a relationship with the suspect and the band at one time. O'BRIEN: Tracy McCool for us this morning.
Thanks for that update.
We will, of course, continue to check in with you on this story.
Thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: Twelve minutes past the hour.
Three teenagers now in custody after a high speed chase in Washington yesterday. Two police officers injured. More than half a dozen vehicles involved and damaged during a five minute pursuit. It all started when police tried to question the teens about a stolen car. Again, in the area of D.C. from yesterday -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Rob Marciano has got a look now at the weather.
He's at the CNN Center for us with the latest -- hello, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Soledad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: In a moment here, one of the hardest working men in show biz suffers a medical setback. Dick Clark already canceling one gig. Could New Year's Eve, the bash in New York, be next?
O'BRIEN: Also, the troops ask some tough questions and Donald Rumsfeld gives some tough answers. Did his response, though, reveal a miscalculation on the Pentagon's part?
HEMMER: Also a question, Saudi Arabia -- is it losing the war on terror? The suspects in the Jeddah blast may have revealed a growing new threat in that kingdom.
We'll get to all those stories after a break on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
Now for our weekly segment "On Terror's Trail."
We're going to take you to Saudi Arabia, where five workers were killed on Monday when terrorists attacked the American consulate in Jeddah. Of the five attackers, only one survived.
Is the kingdom a weak spot on the war on terror?
We're joined this morning in London by Saudi security consultant Nawaf Obaid.
Thanks for being with us.
Appreciate your time. NAWAF OBAID, SAUDI SECURITY CONSULTANT: It's a pleasure.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to it.
One gunman, as we mentioned, survived.
Has he told authorities anything?
OBAID: Well, it's too early yet. I mean he's still -- the exact information, it's still unclear. But I mean it would -- it's still very early to be able to ascertain if he is going to be able to get back to normal condition and to be able to speak about what he was up to.
O'BRIEN: Three who died, none of them were on Saudi Arabia's most wanted list. Many people found that somewhat curious.
What do you think that says about the militants and also says about Saudi Arabia's being on top of these militants?
OBAID: Well, I mean for the last six months, there has been such a sustained crackdown on the remaining infrastructure in Saudi Arabia that what you have -- that what you've had is that the actual infrastructure has been thrown into complete disarray. And hence, what you have is that you have all those different small cells that have been more or less operating independently trying to regroup and to, if you will, have one last go at it.
And the way that this operation was carried out, and especially with the result that occurred, it really shows that they are really going for one last hit in the sense that they don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the logistical support and they don't have the organizational capabilities they had a year, a year and a half ago.
O'BRIEN: The U.S. ambassador in Saudi Arabia says he believed, in fact, that the militants were able to scope out the area before the attack.
The fact that it was already very highly secure anyway, doesn't that give a sense that Saudi Arabia dropped the ball a little bit on this?
OBAID: Not, not really, because it's not that hard to scope. I mean the consulate is located in the middle of one of the bustiest streets in Jeddah. And to scope, you just have to drive by it. Moreover, you -- there is so much one can do when ultimately people are ready to die. And hence this is -- what people are facing today, especially in the kingdom, is an isometric threat problem, which there is so much security that will be enough in order when people are just willing to commit suicide.
And hence, in this case, what you have is that you have a group of people that were just going in for one last shot. And if you've realized, they had no secondary plan. Their plan was to go in, cause as much damage as possible and ultimately get killed or get captured. And that's exactly what happened.
O'BRIEN: What happens now with security concerns, especially in light of the hajj pilgrimage that starts?
OBAID: Well, I mean there has been, especially over the last year, there's been a huge, huge effort in the improvement of the security networks in Saudi Arabia. And hajj has always been the top priority of the security services in the kingdom. And what you have, especially this year, is that you have such a massive effort under way in order to make sure that nothing will go wrong, that it will be, again, it comes back to the same question -- ultimately, there isn't enough security that can prevail when people are ultimately willing to kill themselves to carry out an opposition.
But as, if we can take the previous hajj experience, especially the one of last year and the one of the year before, there is high hopes that this time around there will not be what people have been calling for, suicide attacks or massive casualties.
O'BRIEN: And Nawaf Obaid joining us this morning.
Thanks.
Appreciate it.
OBAID: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: About 20 minutes past the hour now.
Jack said it was good today. We'll find out in a moment. The "Cafferty File" up right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Time to check back in with Jack.
CAFFERTY: Pale Male and Lola are a pair of famous and well liked red-tail hawks here in New York City, who have lived for a number of years at the top of a high rise building on Fifth Avenue, which is where a lot of a hoi polloi in this town live. Mary Tyler Moore, who happens to live in the same building, was outraged by the building's management's decision -- this would be the coop board -- to tear down their nest after complaints of bird droppings. This is a city with 68 billion pigeons in it, OK?
Here's the quote: "I am amazed at the insensitivity of the people who have torn away a nest that has been used for 10 years by this couple of birds." These are -- I mean this is just, this is just nonsense. Don't the wealthy have anything else to worry about?
The birds were seen circling around the building yesterday with some new twigs, trying to rebuild the nest. But that's impossible, because these mutants in this building also took down the spikes that were used to hold the nest in place. Pale Male is so famous that he's -- there was a book about him, a documentary film about him. If I told you all of the people who lived in this building, you would be flat out amazed, but I...
HEMMER: Oh, really?
CAFFERTY: Yes. But I'm not going to do it.
HEMMER: Come on.
O'BRIEN: Oh, come on, Jack.
HEMMER: Tell us more.
CAFFERTY: No.
Only -- no.
Only...
HEMMER: You thought about it. Just give it a second.
CAFFERTY: I'm still thinking about it, but, no, I need this here for another year or two.
Only one week into his new gig, NBC's Brian Williams, taking over for Tom Brokaw, already did a bad. He was -- see, you can't -- you can't say anything when you're in that high profile a job.
United Airlines magazine, "Hemisphere," was asking him about how come there's no women or blacks at the anchor desks at the major networks.
O'BRIEN: Oooh. Always a tricky question.
CAFFERTY: And he said: "We have bigger problems there. There are no black members of the U.S. Senate." Hey, Brian, does the name Barack Obama do anything for you? Shame on you.
Tired of their kids' refusal to help out around the house, a couple in Florida has gone on strike, moved out of the house. They're now living in their front yard. Cat and Harlan Barnard put up a tent in the driveway and they're refusing to cook, clean or drive until the two teenagers shape up. "This is war. I love my babies, but I don't like what they're doing."
Well, the problem here is now the kids are inside the house where they can trash the whole place instead of just their bedrooms...
HEMMER: Sure.
CAFFERTY: ... which, no doubt, they will do.
Waiting for teenagers to agree to clean up and help out around the house is like waiting for Godot.
O'BRIEN: Yes. CAFFERTY: I know of which I speak.
O'BRIEN: It's never going to happen.
CAFFERTY: I'm going to think some more about whether I should reveal the names of all the people...
O'BRIEN: You know where Bill and I stand.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I know. Sure. Because I'm the one who gets fired.
O'BRIEN: Uh-huh.
CAFFERTY: You'll all be there saying, you know, remember when Jack was here, he was such a nice guy, until that morning we talked him into giving us those names. And then he was gone.
HEMMER: What a sucker.
O'BRIEN: We just want to know, you know?
CAFFERTY: My friends here to my right.
O'BRIEN: The public's right to know, Jack, is what I say.
CAFFERTY: Hmmm?
O'BRIEN: The public has a right to know.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Anyway -- did you see this, Jay Leno? When President Bush enjoyed holiday greetings with school kids a little bit earlier this week, Jay Leno saw a little something that the rest of us didn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO," COURTESY NBC)
JAY LENO, HOST: I had no idea Elmo was a liberal. Did you know that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't know that either, man.
LENO: Did you see what happened with Elmo?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LENO: Well, show him the tape.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we're really happy to be with Elmo. Have you ever heard of Elmo?
ELMO: Please kids, give it up for President Bush. He's clueless on the environment. He's in bed with Halliburton. He can't find bin Laden. Agh! Agh! (END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: That's very funny.
O'BRIEN: He's had a couple of really funny days lately, huh?
CAFFERTY: Yes, he's doing better.
O'BRIEN: He's doing all right.
CAFFERTY: Maybe he's got some of Letterman's writers on the team. Yes.
O'BRIEN: Maybe.
Still to come this morning, the 108th Congress is ready to head out the door. Does it get a passing grade? "Political Jab" is just ahead.
Plus, Dick Clark's people say he suffered only a minor stroke, but could it keep him off the air on New Year's Eve? We are "Paging Dr. Gupta."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired December 9, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Five people dead in Ohio after the gunman opens fire on the heavy metal band called Damageplan.
Fists were flying. Now criminal charges are, too. For fans who threw the beers, what's their defense?
And Scott Peterson's mother giving dramatic testimony of a family hit again and again by tragedy. But is the jury moved by any of it, on this AMERICAN MORNING?
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Good morning, everybody.
8:00 here in New York.
Good to have you along with us today.
Good morning again to you.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: A lot of people telling their side of the story today again after criminal charges were filed in that -- after that big fight in the NBA. Five players, five fans looking at various counts of assault and battery. In a few minutes, we'll hear from one of them, also, his lawyer, Geoffrey Fieger. How far can they really take this claim of self-defense? We'll get to the bottom of that in a matter of moments.
O'BRIEN: Lawyers, lawyers everywhere.
Also this morning, a little bit later, we go "On Terror's Trail," following up on that deadly strike against an American consulate in Saudi Arabia. One of the militants that was involved in the attacks is captured. Is he talking? We'll find out about that.
HEMMER: All right, Jack Cafferty is back with us again, as always -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File," Brian Williams, who replaced Tom Brokaw over there at the peacock network on the Nightly News, less than a week into the new job, managed to get his foot right in his mouth in an interview with a newspaper, a magazine reporter. And we'll tell you what he said.
And some heartless morons on Fifth Avenue here in New York have torn down the nest of two beloved red-tailed hawks who have lived in this city for a number of years. And don't you know the tenants of the building, including Mary Tyler Moore, are steamed? And they ought to be. That would be in "The File" a bit later for you.
O'BRIEN: Good "File" today.
CAFFERTY: Not bad.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack, thanks.
Headlines now with Heidi Collins -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you guys.
And good morning, everybody.
Now in the news, the 9/11 intelligence overhaul bill on its way to President Bush's desk. The Senate easily passed the measure yesterday. Once again, the bill will overhaul the U.S. intelligence community by placing the budgets of 15 spy agencies under a new post of national intelligence director.
In California, closing arguments expected to begin in the penalty phase of Scott Peterson's trial. Prosecutors and the defense attorneys will get to make their case in the next four hours, when proceedings are set to begin. The jury could begin deliberating on whether to sentence Peterson to death or life in prison. Yesterday, jurors heard tearful testimony from Peterson's mother, who pleaded for them to spare her son's life.
Rescuers in the Philippines still digging through the rubble from a round of devastating storms. Rescuers were able to pull four people out alive today. The survivors have been trapped for 10 days in debris of a collapsed building. The storms in the Philippines have claimed more than 800 lives and apparently still quite a few people missing. Those people who were pulled out, they were like hiding in the kitchen, holed up in the kitchen of the building.
HEMMER: They're lucky to be alive.
COLLINS: Absolutely.
HEMMER: Yes.
Thank you, Heidi.
A dozen people, players and fans, now charged in that mess in Michigan. The fight broke out three weeks ago when a Pistons' fan hit Ron Artest of the Pacers with a cup of liquid. Several Pacers followed Artest into the stands. Fans who threw fists and more liquid were charged yesterday with misdemeanor assault and battery. One fan accused of throwing a chair got a felony assault charge. Five players also charged with misdemeanor assault and battery -- two counts for Jermaine O'Neal, one count each for Ron Artest and Steven Jackson, Anthony Johnson and David Harrison.
Misdemeanor assault charges carry a maximum penalty of 93 days in jail and a $500 fine. The felony charge, though, could mean up to four years behind bars. The prosecutor does not expect any first time offenders, though, to end up in jail.
Bill Paulson is one of the fans charged.
He and his lawyer, Geoffrey Fieger, with me now from Southfield, Michigan.
And gentlemen, welcome here.
GEOFFREY FIEGER, ATTORNEY: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: And good morning.
We heard from the prosecutor yesterday. Listen to how he sums up his version of events against you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GORCYCA, OAKLAND COUNTY PROSECUTOR: This is Paulson, Green and Artest. As you'll observe in a minute, Paulson throws a cup of liquid substance -- we're not sure what it is, beer or water -- into the face of Artest. Now, as I said, spitting in the face constitutes a battery. It would be analogous to a liquid substance striking Artest. So assault and battery against Artest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: So he says throwing a cup of liquid of some sort, as he describes there.
Bill, what is your version, based on what the prosecutor presented yesterday?
WILLIAM PAULSON, CHARGED IN BASKET BRAWL: Well, it's -- Ron Artest came into the stands. He attacked my friend, Mike. Me and him were there. I've known him for almost 20 years. And he had Mike on the ground with his fist up and Mike kept saying, "I didn't do it, I didn't do it." And Ron Artest kept saying, "Did you do it? Did you do it?"
And I came in, grabbed him with my left hand and said stop it twice. And then, you know, I did whatever, what anybody would do, I would assume, and just tried to help my friend.
HEMMER: Do you consider yourself defending yourself? Was this self-defense? Is that how you categorize it, Bill?
PAULSON: My friend, absolutely. He had his head pinned back against a chair with a 250-pound man ready to punch him. I didn't know what else to do.
HEMMER: How, then, describe for us how is throwing a beer -- was it a beer, by the way, or was it a soft drink or what was it?
PAULSON: It was a beer.
HEMMER: It was a beer.
PAULSON: Yes.
HEMMER: How was that self-defense? How was that going to get him off you?
FIEGER: Wait. What do you mean how is that self-defense?
HEMMER: I'm just trying to get some answers, Geoffrey. Hang on one second.
Bill, go ahead.
FIEGER: A seven foot, 300 pound wild man comes into the stands, starts beating up an innocent man. His best friend is sitting next to him and he comes to defend him. He could have picked up a stick and hit him with it. He should be given an award. What do you mean throwing a beer in the guy's face to try to stop a wild man from assaulting your friend sitting next to you? Who wouldn't do that?
HEMMER: You know, Bill, there is another thing in here that I understand, Steven Jackson was also charged yesterday, accused of hitting you.
FIEGER: That's right.
HEMMER: Is -- hang on one second, Geoffrey.
Let me get it from your client, if I could.
Bill, is that the case? And what happened there?
FIEGER: Jackson hit him. He cold cocked him. You can see the tape.
HEMMER: Bill, what is your version of events for what Steven Jackson did to you?
PAULSON: Well, the next thing I knew, Steven Jackson was coming into the stands and he hit me up there in the back of the head. And I was trying to get away and he kept coming after me. But he was restrained. But I got a concussion and it hurt pretty badly.
HEMMER: Geoffrey, tell me...
FIEGER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
HEMMER: Geoffrey, go ahead and tell me how will you defend your client on these charges? FIEGER: He doesn't, take a look at the tape. Two wild men come into the stands. They didn't do anything. They're just sitting there. And these wild men are allegedly looking for somebody who hit Ron Artest in the stomach with some liquid and they start assaulting everyone. They take his friend, they put him on the ground, he begins beating him and he comes to his rescue.
Now, what jury is going to say that he's guilty of some crime? I mean that's nuts. That's not going to happen. The only people guilty of crimes in this situation are Artest and O'Neal.
HEMMER: Geoffrey, have you filed a civil suit on Bill's behalf...
FIEGER: Yes, of course.
HEMMER: Against whom?
FIEGER: Against the Pacers n against the individuals who assaulted Bill.
HEMMER: And on the grounds of assault or something else?
FIEGER: No. It's assault, negligence against the Pacers and against the individuals.
HEMMER: One more matter here, if I could, Geoffrey.
You also represent the Ackermans, is that right?
FIEGER: That's right.
HEMMER: There is a John Ackerman, Sr. and a John Ackerman, Jr.
Was one struck with a chair?
FIEGER: Yes, Mr. Ackerman is the gentleman who not only was struck by a chair, but was struck prior to that time in the back of the head by Jermaine O'Neal. And his son was defending him. And his son threw some liquid, allegedly, on Jermaine O'Neal. Now, I mean this is just silliness. In these two instances -- I'm not defending, by the way, somebody who threw a liquid out onto the floor and hit Artest initially. What I'm defending and who I'm talking about now are two innocent people who are defending themselves against wild men who started a riot within the Detroit Pistons' stands.
HEMMER: We will leave it there, for today, anyway. But I'm certain we'll return another day very soon.
Thank you both, gentlemen, there in the south of Michigan, Geoffrey Fieger, the attorney, and Bill Paulson, the client there in Michigan this morning.
PAULSON: Thanks.
HEMMER: Sure -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: Deadly gunfire in a crowded Ohio nightclub last night. A gunman jumped onto the stage and opened fire on the band then turned it onto the crowd before he was killed by a police officer.
Tracy McCool of WJW-TV has the very latest for us from Columbus.
TRACY MCCOOL, WJW-TV CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning.
A deadly night here in Columbus. We're live outside the Alrosa Villa here in Columbus. Five people confirmed dead, including the shooter. Now, a number of people gathered here last night to see the band called Damageplan. They were just seconds into their first song when shots rang out.
The band, again, taking the stage last night right around 10:18. Witnesses say that's when they saw a man with a gun walk up to the stage and start firing. Witnesses say the band's guitarist, Darrell "Dimebag" Abbott, was shot at close range at least five times. Eventually, the gunman turned his gun on the crowd. Witnesses say at first they really just thought this was part of the act, but soon realized that something was very, very wrong.
There was uniform officer in the area when the call for help came in. Witnesses say when that officer stepped inside the building, the gunman still firing, also had taken a hostage. That's when the officer fired, killing the suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His response time was less than two minutes, I believe. And I think that were thankful that he did what he did and how he did it, or we'd have had probably numerous more deaths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCOOL: And, again, the investigation continues here in Columbus. Five dead, including the shooter. You can see that police behind me near here now have the scene secure. Just a few moments ago, somebody drove by, dropping off some flowers. And the detectives spent the night interviewing a number of witnesses. We understand that some 250 people were inside the building when this shooting took place.
Now, police still gathering information on the victims, but we have been able to confirm that Danny Abbott, Darrell Abbott, rather, was killed in the shooting.
O'BRIEN: As you say, Tracy, obviously it's very early on in the investigation. But is there any indication that the gunman knew members of the band in any sort of a personal way?
MCCOOL: That is a very good question. Police certainly looking into that, because according to what we are getting from all of the witnesses, they say it was apparent that the band was being targeted in this. So police are looking to see whether or not there was a relationship with the suspect and the band at one time. O'BRIEN: Tracy McCool for us this morning.
Thanks for that update.
We will, of course, continue to check in with you on this story.
Thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: Twelve minutes past the hour.
Three teenagers now in custody after a high speed chase in Washington yesterday. Two police officers injured. More than half a dozen vehicles involved and damaged during a five minute pursuit. It all started when police tried to question the teens about a stolen car. Again, in the area of D.C. from yesterday -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Rob Marciano has got a look now at the weather.
He's at the CNN Center for us with the latest -- hello, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Soledad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: In a moment here, one of the hardest working men in show biz suffers a medical setback. Dick Clark already canceling one gig. Could New Year's Eve, the bash in New York, be next?
O'BRIEN: Also, the troops ask some tough questions and Donald Rumsfeld gives some tough answers. Did his response, though, reveal a miscalculation on the Pentagon's part?
HEMMER: Also a question, Saudi Arabia -- is it losing the war on terror? The suspects in the Jeddah blast may have revealed a growing new threat in that kingdom.
We'll get to all those stories after a break on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
Now for our weekly segment "On Terror's Trail."
We're going to take you to Saudi Arabia, where five workers were killed on Monday when terrorists attacked the American consulate in Jeddah. Of the five attackers, only one survived.
Is the kingdom a weak spot on the war on terror?
We're joined this morning in London by Saudi security consultant Nawaf Obaid.
Thanks for being with us.
Appreciate your time. NAWAF OBAID, SAUDI SECURITY CONSULTANT: It's a pleasure.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to it.
One gunman, as we mentioned, survived.
Has he told authorities anything?
OBAID: Well, it's too early yet. I mean he's still -- the exact information, it's still unclear. But I mean it would -- it's still very early to be able to ascertain if he is going to be able to get back to normal condition and to be able to speak about what he was up to.
O'BRIEN: Three who died, none of them were on Saudi Arabia's most wanted list. Many people found that somewhat curious.
What do you think that says about the militants and also says about Saudi Arabia's being on top of these militants?
OBAID: Well, I mean for the last six months, there has been such a sustained crackdown on the remaining infrastructure in Saudi Arabia that what you have -- that what you've had is that the actual infrastructure has been thrown into complete disarray. And hence, what you have is that you have all those different small cells that have been more or less operating independently trying to regroup and to, if you will, have one last go at it.
And the way that this operation was carried out, and especially with the result that occurred, it really shows that they are really going for one last hit in the sense that they don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the logistical support and they don't have the organizational capabilities they had a year, a year and a half ago.
O'BRIEN: The U.S. ambassador in Saudi Arabia says he believed, in fact, that the militants were able to scope out the area before the attack.
The fact that it was already very highly secure anyway, doesn't that give a sense that Saudi Arabia dropped the ball a little bit on this?
OBAID: Not, not really, because it's not that hard to scope. I mean the consulate is located in the middle of one of the bustiest streets in Jeddah. And to scope, you just have to drive by it. Moreover, you -- there is so much one can do when ultimately people are ready to die. And hence this is -- what people are facing today, especially in the kingdom, is an isometric threat problem, which there is so much security that will be enough in order when people are just willing to commit suicide.
And hence, in this case, what you have is that you have a group of people that were just going in for one last shot. And if you've realized, they had no secondary plan. Their plan was to go in, cause as much damage as possible and ultimately get killed or get captured. And that's exactly what happened.
O'BRIEN: What happens now with security concerns, especially in light of the hajj pilgrimage that starts?
OBAID: Well, I mean there has been, especially over the last year, there's been a huge, huge effort in the improvement of the security networks in Saudi Arabia. And hajj has always been the top priority of the security services in the kingdom. And what you have, especially this year, is that you have such a massive effort under way in order to make sure that nothing will go wrong, that it will be, again, it comes back to the same question -- ultimately, there isn't enough security that can prevail when people are ultimately willing to kill themselves to carry out an opposition.
But as, if we can take the previous hajj experience, especially the one of last year and the one of the year before, there is high hopes that this time around there will not be what people have been calling for, suicide attacks or massive casualties.
O'BRIEN: And Nawaf Obaid joining us this morning.
Thanks.
Appreciate it.
OBAID: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: About 20 minutes past the hour now.
Jack said it was good today. We'll find out in a moment. The "Cafferty File" up right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Time to check back in with Jack.
CAFFERTY: Pale Male and Lola are a pair of famous and well liked red-tail hawks here in New York City, who have lived for a number of years at the top of a high rise building on Fifth Avenue, which is where a lot of a hoi polloi in this town live. Mary Tyler Moore, who happens to live in the same building, was outraged by the building's management's decision -- this would be the coop board -- to tear down their nest after complaints of bird droppings. This is a city with 68 billion pigeons in it, OK?
Here's the quote: "I am amazed at the insensitivity of the people who have torn away a nest that has been used for 10 years by this couple of birds." These are -- I mean this is just, this is just nonsense. Don't the wealthy have anything else to worry about?
The birds were seen circling around the building yesterday with some new twigs, trying to rebuild the nest. But that's impossible, because these mutants in this building also took down the spikes that were used to hold the nest in place. Pale Male is so famous that he's -- there was a book about him, a documentary film about him. If I told you all of the people who lived in this building, you would be flat out amazed, but I...
HEMMER: Oh, really?
CAFFERTY: Yes. But I'm not going to do it.
HEMMER: Come on.
O'BRIEN: Oh, come on, Jack.
HEMMER: Tell us more.
CAFFERTY: No.
Only -- no.
Only...
HEMMER: You thought about it. Just give it a second.
CAFFERTY: I'm still thinking about it, but, no, I need this here for another year or two.
Only one week into his new gig, NBC's Brian Williams, taking over for Tom Brokaw, already did a bad. He was -- see, you can't -- you can't say anything when you're in that high profile a job.
United Airlines magazine, "Hemisphere," was asking him about how come there's no women or blacks at the anchor desks at the major networks.
O'BRIEN: Oooh. Always a tricky question.
CAFFERTY: And he said: "We have bigger problems there. There are no black members of the U.S. Senate." Hey, Brian, does the name Barack Obama do anything for you? Shame on you.
Tired of their kids' refusal to help out around the house, a couple in Florida has gone on strike, moved out of the house. They're now living in their front yard. Cat and Harlan Barnard put up a tent in the driveway and they're refusing to cook, clean or drive until the two teenagers shape up. "This is war. I love my babies, but I don't like what they're doing."
Well, the problem here is now the kids are inside the house where they can trash the whole place instead of just their bedrooms...
HEMMER: Sure.
CAFFERTY: ... which, no doubt, they will do.
Waiting for teenagers to agree to clean up and help out around the house is like waiting for Godot.
O'BRIEN: Yes. CAFFERTY: I know of which I speak.
O'BRIEN: It's never going to happen.
CAFFERTY: I'm going to think some more about whether I should reveal the names of all the people...
O'BRIEN: You know where Bill and I stand.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I know. Sure. Because I'm the one who gets fired.
O'BRIEN: Uh-huh.
CAFFERTY: You'll all be there saying, you know, remember when Jack was here, he was such a nice guy, until that morning we talked him into giving us those names. And then he was gone.
HEMMER: What a sucker.
O'BRIEN: We just want to know, you know?
CAFFERTY: My friends here to my right.
O'BRIEN: The public's right to know, Jack, is what I say.
CAFFERTY: Hmmm?
O'BRIEN: The public has a right to know.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Anyway -- did you see this, Jay Leno? When President Bush enjoyed holiday greetings with school kids a little bit earlier this week, Jay Leno saw a little something that the rest of us didn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO," COURTESY NBC)
JAY LENO, HOST: I had no idea Elmo was a liberal. Did you know that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't know that either, man.
LENO: Did you see what happened with Elmo?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LENO: Well, show him the tape.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we're really happy to be with Elmo. Have you ever heard of Elmo?
ELMO: Please kids, give it up for President Bush. He's clueless on the environment. He's in bed with Halliburton. He can't find bin Laden. Agh! Agh! (END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: That's very funny.
O'BRIEN: He's had a couple of really funny days lately, huh?
CAFFERTY: Yes, he's doing better.
O'BRIEN: He's doing all right.
CAFFERTY: Maybe he's got some of Letterman's writers on the team. Yes.
O'BRIEN: Maybe.
Still to come this morning, the 108th Congress is ready to head out the door. Does it get a passing grade? "Political Jab" is just ahead.
Plus, Dick Clark's people say he suffered only a minor stroke, but could it keep him off the air on New Year's Eve? We are "Paging Dr. Gupta."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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