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American Morning

Basketbrawl Charges; Troop Complaints; Demolition Dynasty

Aired December 09, 2004 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It's not a bad day here in New York City, huh? Rob says it's going to change in a couple of hours from now.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I know (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that's nice.

HEMMER: I'll be on that plane heading off to Tokyo.

O'BRIEN: I'm surprised you're here at all, honestly. I thought we were doing our big good-byes yesterday, and then hi, Bill.

HEMMER: So did I.

O'BRIEN: But you leave in a little bit, right?

HEMMER: Yes, we sure do a bit later today, in fact. It's 7:30 here in New York. Good morning, everybody.

A bit earlier today we heard from the prosecutor in that basketbrawl case. In a few moments, we'll talk to lawyers for the fans said to have instigated that entire rumble. John Green allegedly threw the cup that started that fight. And we'll find out from his lawyers how much they believe Mr. Green, how much blame he's willing to take, if any at all. So we'll get to that in a few minutes.

O'BRIEN: So far, from what we've heard from him, not a whole heck of a lot.

HEMMER: Just an innocent bystander.

O'BRIEN: Yes, he doesn't quite deny it, but he doesn't quite admit it either. We'll see if he's changing his tune.

And also this morning, we're going to meet man who is a virtuoso of blowing things up. Mark Loizeaux is responsible for the last moments of many buildings and bridges. Three generations of his family work in the so-called demolition dynasty. Their story coming up.

HEMMER: The best segment of the day, hands down. A lot of things are down in that.

Here's Heidi Collins back with us and the headlines.

Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. And good morning to you, everybody.

"Now in the News" this morning.

Police in Columbus, Ohio, are still trying to figure out the motive behind a deadly shooting at a nightclub. Authorities say a man opened fire on band members and fans during a heavy metal concert last night. Police are now confirming the guitarist for the band is among the five people killed. The gunman was also shot dead.

Rescuers in the Philippines are still digging through the rubble from a round of devastating storms there. Rescuers were able to pull four people out alive today, though. The survivors had been trapped for 10 days in debris of a collapsed building. The storms in the Philippines have claimed more than 800 lives.

Treasury Secretary John Snow will be staying on as a member of President Bush's cabinet, ending speculation Snow was on his way out, but President Bush was asking his treasury chief to remain in his post. The 65-year-old Snow has led the department since February of 2003.

And your dream of touring outer space may soon be science fiction no more. The Senate has approved a bill to let the FAA issue permits allowing private companies to send passengers into the skies and beyond. Some would-be space tour operators say they'll be ready to offer private spaceflights in the next several years. Don't know the cost of those yet, but I'm thinking it might be a pretty penny.

O'BRIEN: What's it running like, $20 million right now?

COLLINS: Something like that.

O'BRIEN: We'll have to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COLLINS: And a brave, brave soul, too.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Probably most importantly.

COLLINS: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right, Heidi, thanks.

HEMMER: Back to the story now from Detroit. Five Indiana Pacers, five Detroit fans have been hit with assault and battery charges for their roles in last month's brawl. The Oakland County prosecutor blames one of the fans, John Green, for inciting the matter. Green's attorneys, Bart Morris and Shawn Patrick Smith, join me now from Birmingham, Michigan.

Gentlemen, good morning to both of you. Welcome here to AMERICAN MORNING.

SHAWN PATRICK SMITH, ATTORNEY FOR JOHN GREEN: Good morning, Bill.

BARTON MORRIS, ATTORNEY FOR JOHN GREEN: Good morning.

HEMMER: I want you to listen now to the prosecutor, David Gorcyca, from yesterday, clearly pointing a finger of blame at your client. Listen here now from that briefing from yesterday afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GORCYCA, OAKLAND COUNTY PROSECUTOR: John Green, we will depict, by my mind, single-handedly incited this whole interaction between the fans and players, and probably is the one that's most culpable, although there could be an argument made that the players were equally as culpable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Shawn, it sounds to me like he's singling out your client. It's pretty clear there. How will you defend John Green?

S. SMITH: Well, Bart and I are going to defend him until blood comes out of our eyes, because this guy did not commit any criminal act. The reckless behavior that you see associated with a cup throw, if they can prove it and they prove the intent, is not what started this.

What started this is a pervasive attitude in the NBA that they can do whatever they want to whoever they want, whenever they want. It's the new hip-hop generation of basketball. It's gangster basketball. And that's why we have a problem here.

We have Artest going up in the stands assaulting people, and he's the real problem, not John Green, not the fans of Detroit. They singled out these five fans, but in actuality, over 100 people were throwing stuff that night. As you see them exiting the stadium, you can see repeated all types of fans throwing stuff left and right. And they can identify all of those people. They can charge them.

HEMMER: Let me get to Bart for a second here. Just 30 minutes ago, the prosecutor was talking with Soledad. He said, in part, if he doesn't do it -- meaning John Green -- we're not talking about this today.

MORRIS: Well, see, what he is forgetting is that sports, in general, this happens all the time. Spectators throw things in sporting arenas, whether it be basketball, football, hockey. It happens all the time. And the players and the athletes, they are to expect that. They're paid to deal with that.

And in this situation, I don't believe that anybody throwing any debris onto the court or at a player can legitimately expect one of the players to react in that way. And that's what's unfortunate about Mr. Gorcyca's comments. He is saying that whoever is throwing debris at the players is to blame for this. That's not true at all. The blame... HEMMER: And the prosecutors are saying that helped incite the matter. Listen to your client with Larry King just about 10 days ago about this matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN GREEN, ACCUSED IN BASKETBRAWL: When the fight broke out, everybody started yelling "fight." And we -- a bunch of us ran down into the aisle and started getting a better view of what was going on. We were a few rows up further. There were just some empty seats we ran to when we saw that nobody was sitting in them. The fight broke out when a cup that came from our direction landed on Ron Artest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Shawn, if you listen to that comment with Larry King here on CNN, it appears that John Green says he was just essentially an innocent bystander in all of this. Yet, later in the videotape when he's on the back of Ron Artest, you can clearly see him throw a punch. What was the result of that? Why did that occur?

P. SMITH: Oh, well, it's clear that what happens is Artest runs up, goes right past John Green, who is about the biggest guy in the area, and attacks the little guy next to him. John is an ex-Marine. When John sees him attack that little guy, he comes to the little guy's defense. He and five other people are trying to pull Artest off the back of that small fan who had nothing to do with anything that night. And that's when there's some rough activity there. And it's only because John was in defense of the small guy, and he was just trying to help him out.

MORRIS: He is defending himself as well. There is definitely a possibility that John was assaulted by Artest prior to him throwing punches or what looked as though that he was throwing punches. So, he was not only protecting himself, he was protecting others.

HEMMER: Thank you, gentlemen. We'll talk about this next hour again. There is a lot to talk about, too, out of Birmingham, Michigan, this morning. Shawn Patrick Smith with us today, and Bart Morris, attorneys for John Green. The story is not done yet. Thank you, gentlemen.

Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Greg Anthony. He's a former NBA player and also an ESPN basketball analyst.

Nice to se you.

GREG ANTHONY, ESPN BASKETBALL ANALYST: Good to see you.

O'BRIEN: You heard what the lawyers had to say. First let me, though, ask you about the charge before you get into that. What do you think of these charges now filed? What's your reaction?

ANTHONY: It's exactly what one would have expected. Again, basically it's a simple assault, a misdemeanor, for most parties involved. And unless you have a prior record, you're probably not going to see any jail time. Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just speaking from legal minds that I have spoken to.

But I will say in reference to what the gentlemen who are representing Mr. Green, it seems to me like their defense is going to be somewhat of a Jedi mind trick, because -- I mean to, be able to sit there and honestly say that what occurred in their minds and when you compare it to what you saw on the video, I mean, it's a little bit embarrassing.

O'BRIEN: But they did say that what's really to blame -- I'm paraphrasing here -- is this pervasive attitude in the NBA that the players can do whatever they want. And there's a sense, look, you've got to climb the stands and he's going to take out whoever he thinks was the guy.

ANTHONY: Well, again, as an African-American and a former professional athlete, I definitely take offense with the comments of this being gangster basketball or hip-hop basketball. One has nothing to do with the other. And then what's the excuse for the fans who were throwing things? Are they also fans of hip-hop and gangster rap? And is that why they're at professional sporting events?

O'BRIEN: Do they make a point, though, when they say, listen, you guys, and back in the day when you were playing, you make a ton of money. And to some degree, you've got to expect -- you have to expect that fans are going to toss something on you?

ANTHONY: Again, I have yet to see the fact that you make money determine whether or not or how you're going to react and respond when your emotional buttons have been pushed. And again, that's what we have to focus in on.

And then remember, altercations happen in sports, but rarely do they involve the fans. And, yes, there are times when fans will throw things out on the floor or on the field, but it's typically based upon decisions that are made by officials or the outcome of a game. It's not directly after a scenario where you've just had this heated, volatile interaction between players, which, again, is something that's common.

That whole situation had been calmed down, and you heard the district attorney speak about that, that really what incited this entire melee, if you will, was the fact that there was a fan, allegedly John Green, who tossed something out onto the players and escalated the violence.

O'BRIEN: I don't want to sound like I'm getting old, but there is a sense that...

ANTHONY: Well, we are.

O'BRIEN: ... back in the day, you know, you wouldn't see -- and I have, you know, spent a lot of time in Boston watching the Celtics play. And you just wouldn't see this. Are we in a new era as far as what fans feel that they can do to these, maybe they perceive the stars as being way overpaid and they kind of deserve, to some degree, this?

ANTHONY: Well, if that's what they perceive, then that's unfortunate, because in terms of the relative dollars that are created or are generated by sports, then athletes get a particular share of that.

Look, the reason that athletes, as our entertainers and our performers, are paid the exorbitant amounts of money that they're paid is because they provide a unique talent that the average individual is unable to perform. I mean, if it were that easy to do, more people would do it. And thusly, it probably wouldn't be as unique and you wouldn't see the types of revenue being generated.

O'BRIEN: Things have changed a lot, do you think, since you played?

ANTHONY: No. Violence is a part. It has always been a part. But it's been somewhat controlled for the most part. Again, and you talk about Boston. There were a lot of fights in Boston. I remember Larry Bird growing up...

O'BRIEN: Nothing like that.

ANTHONY: Larry Bird...

O'BRIEN: Nothing like that.

ANTHONY: Well, but again, that's because fans never got involved. It stayed on the court. The players -- again, it's expected somewhat, because of the emotion and the intensity with which one goes out and performs at that higher level. But again, it was always controlled and kept on the court, and the fans didn't feel a need to go out and get involved.

O'BRIEN: ESPN basketball analyst Greg Anthony. Nice to have you, and nice to have you back.

ANTHONY: Thank you. I enjoyed it.

O'BRIEN: All right -- Bill.

HEMMER: It's now 20 minutes before the hour. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld now says the complaints he heard in Kuwait could end up being constructive for the troops. Yesterday, troops peppered the secretary with questions about what and why they had to scrounge for armor and about extended tours of duty in Iraq. His answer that they would have to make do stirred a bit more anger.

Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon this morning.

Barbara -- good morning there.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill. Well, indeed the secretary told those troops that basically, you go to war with the army you have. And now, there has been a lot of questions. A lot of people are wondering if Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was mad or angry at the questions he got from the audience, especially the question about not enough armor for the troops going into Iraq.

The secretary has now responded, and he says he's not mad. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think it's important that senior leadership meet with the troops, talk to them, ask them questions, listen to what they have to say. And I must say, I find myself not surprised at all at the kinds of things I hear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: But it did raise a lot of questions. And here, yesterday, the Pentagon spokesman spoke to reporters about the situation with the armor, what vehicles are armored, what vehicles are not. Here is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE DI RITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: The policy is that units that are going into Iraq, if they're going to drive their vehicles into Iraq, they drive in armored vehicles. If their vehicles aren't armored, the policy is that they are convoyed on other vehicles. They're put on the back of trucks. And they're used for operations around the base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So, where do things stand right now, Bill? Well, the military is currently making about 450 armored Humvees every month. They acknowledge they still need about another 2,000 of them. They're working to do that.

Nonetheless, all of this certainly raising the question again about the armor protection that the troops do have once they get inside Iraq -- Bill.

HEMMER: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks for that -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Another winter storm buffeted the northern Sierras. Wild winds in Nevada were powerful enough to roll over semi-trucks and other vehicles. At least one state highway was closed after four semis were blown right off the road. One fatality was reported.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We're hitting the road next week, another reminder. In fact, in a few hours. Live in Tokyo starting on Monday. A series of special reports throughout that country on U.S./Japanese relations. We'll talk with a number of high-ranking officials there. The U.S. military involvement, the U.S. ambassador, et cetera. Morning in the U.S. is primetime in Japan.

O'BRIEN: Oh, 9:00 p.m., right?

HEMMER: That's right. My flight leaves at noon, by the way. I'm hoping to make it.

O'BRIEN: Really?

Still to come this morning, a major airline is about to make history with a flight 30 years in the making. Andy is "Minding Your Business" this morning.

HEMMER: Also, the family business that blew up, literally, into a demolition dynasty. Name the building that was the toughest to bring down. We will after this on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The Loizeauxes are the first family of demolition. For nearly a half a century, they have been imploding all kinds of structures all over the world. Now, they're featured in a series of National Geographic Channel specials. The first one, "Demolition Dynasty," premieres tonight. Mark Loizeaux is the head of controlled demolition, joining us to talk a little bit about the family business.

Nice to have you. Thanks for coming in to talk to us.

MARK LOIZEAUX: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Three generations in this business. How did it all start?

LOIZEAUX: It started with my dad. He was the youngest of seven boys, and he was competitive by nature, I think. And he went to Barstree (ph) School, used explosives there, saw a chimney, it looked like a brick tree. Someone said, can you knock it down? Yes. And in 1947, he dropped his first structure, and it's been an interesting run from there.

O'BRIEN: Some people might think it's easy to blow things up. But actually, because a lot of your work is done in cities and towns, you have to be incredibly careful, not just for the safety of your own team obviously, but because you're doing something right in the heart of a city sometimes.

LOIZEAUX: It's a fairly simple process, Soledad, in that you're using gravity. It's free. It's available all the time. And buildings and bridges weigh a lot, and they want to come down. But there's a lot of engineering employment that goes into it. That's true.

O'BRIEN: How do you protect the folks around it? I mean, you bring up a bridge like this, or you're blowing up a stadium like the Seattle Kingdome, we saw, which was a pretty remarkable thing to watch collapse, I've got to tell you.

LOIZEAUX: It's not how much explosives you use. It's how you use it. And you let gravity bring the structure down. So, we're minimalists by nature. We use the minimum amount of explosives to release a structure and let gravity do the job. Where necessary, we will protect adjacent properties. And we always pull people back so they're at a safe distance. One of the problems with implosions is people like to watch.

O'BRIEN: What was the hardest thing to ever bring down?

LOIZEAUX: I think hardest thing emotionally would have been the Murrah Federal Building after the bombing there. That was very difficult for all of us. In fact, Stacy (ph) refused to go to that job.

I think probably the most technical structure, the most difficult structure from an engineering standpoint, would be the Kingdome in Seattle, Washington. A very complex structure, post-tension. All of these tendons pulled very, very tight in the structure. A lot of older structures around a community that spoke six different languages, communication is a problem. But we have a wonderful team of people, both the Loizeaux family and our corporate family. And it works well.

O'BRIEN: What do you think when you think about sort of your place in the world and how your work, you know, creates the face of the planet, frankly, since you've been all around the world?

LOIZEAUX: Well, we have been all around the world. And like most architectures or contractors would go around with their children, their grandchildren, and say I built that structure, I built that structure, my brother, Doug, and I say...

O'BRIEN: Let's get out.

LOIZEAUX: ... we cleared this space so they could build that structure. But it's fun to help cities and countries and societies revitalize themselves. It's a wonderful time. It's a real privilege to be involved and to be able to make a difference.

O'BRIEN: Mark Loizeaux, it's a wonderful, wonderful story, a fascinating story and family history. Thanks for coming in to talk to us about it. We appreciate it.

LOIZEAUX: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: "Demolition Dynasty" airs tonight at 8:00 Eastern on the National Geographic channel, with encore presentations on Sunday from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. -- Bill.

HEMMER: We're looking forward to more of that. Thanks, Soledad.

In a moment here, United makes history today, going somewhere no U.S. airline has gone in more than 30 years. Andy is "Minding Your Business" after a short break here. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: A preview of the action on Wall Street. Also, after years, flights start up again from the U.S. to Vietnam. And that is history, certainly. Andy Serwer is back with us "Minding Your Business."

Good morning to you.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.

HEMMER: Is this Ho Chi Minh City?

SERWER: Yes.

HEMMER: Is this Hanoi?

SERWER: Yes. While, you're flying to Japan, I figured a diversion today perhaps?

HEMMER: OK.

SERWER: 3:10 Eastern out of San Francisco, Flight 869 will be departing to Ho Chi Minh City via Hong Kong. United Airlines, the first commercial flight to Vietnam in more than 30 years since the end of the Vietnam War. Isn't that truly amazing?

And, you know, it's about time. The economy is growing very fast there. Billions of dollars are traded between the United States and Vietnam now, an important link to China. And it will be interesting to see.

You know, I know all kinds of people who have gone to Vietnam as tourists, but obviously you'd have to fly to Hong Kong first and jump off. And now there is actually going to be a direct flight.

HEMMER: Their economy is booming.

SERWER: It really is.

HEMMER: Years ago it was 15 percent. I don't know if it's still...

SERWER: It's about 10 percent right now, but it's still...

HEMMER: It's huge, yes.

SERWER: That's still huge.

HEMMER: Hey, what's happening with Jay Z? A new gig or what?

SERWER: Yes, Jay Z has got himself a new job. He is now leaving the rapper suite and going to the executive suite. Rappers don't have suites. He's leaving the recording studio and becoming a record executive. He has been named the head of Def Jam Records. Antonio "LA" Reid has named him to that post. He could make $5 million to $10 million a year.

And didn't he have a tune, "A Hard Knock Life?" I don't think so. And it's possible that Beyonce could end up as a senior VP, don't you think?

HEMMER: Oh, I think there's a pretty good chance, my friend.

O'BRIEN: Oh absolutely.

One would hope so.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: You know, you want to bring your friends and family along on those kinds of promotions.

HEMMER: Bringing them in.

SERWER: Indeed.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Didn't they reunite -- isn't there a new video out as Destiny's Child with Beyonce?

SERWER: You know. How does he know that?

O'BRIEN: Well, look at Jack.

SERWER: Wow! Mr. Pop culture over there.

CAFFERTY: Can I get on "90-Second Pop."

O'BRIEN: You know what? Yes, you may.

CAFFERTY: No, I absolutely refuse to appear on that segment. The "Question of the Day." U.S. versus Judith Miller of "The New York Times" and Matthew Cooper of "TIME" magazine. They're refusing to appear before a grand jury investigating the suspected link of a high- profile CIA operative's name to the media. And because of their refusal, they could be facing 18 months in the slam.

Reporters traditionally are protected from reviewing sources to the government. But because grand jury testimony is supposed to be kept secret, even though most of the time it's not, the court may rule against these two reporters.

The question is this: Should journalists be compelled to reveal sources to a grand jury?

John in New Orleans writes: "The threat to arrest journalists for withholding names of informants is just one more attempt to whittle away our rights as Americans. The reporters should stand firm." Pamela in Michigan: "The day we start making journalists give up their sources is the day we lose freedom of the press. And I can't recall any time in my history where freedom of the press is needed more than right now."

Peter in Texas: "A delicate balance here. Protect sources, yes. But not at the public's expense. When a prosecutor can show an impartial judge that, but for the revelation of sources by a reporter, the public will suffer serious harm, that reporter must reveal his source."

J.R. in Vicksburg, Mississippi: "Journalists should not reveal their sources. The basic threat of uncensored and honest journalism is at stake here. To circumvent this would yet again cause Americans to lose trust in the courts and view them as a pawn of an ever- increasing pressure from the executive branch of government."

And Allen in Waco, Texas: "Journalists should not have to give up their sources, or most sources will dry up, unless, of course, the sources are requested by the Republicans or have something to do with national security."

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Did anybody say, yes, give it up?

CAFFERTY: Huh?

O'BRIEN: Did anybody sort of weigh in with yes, give it up?

CAFFERTY: Well, that one, Peter said if an impartial judge decides that the public stands to be harmed by the failure of the reporters to divulge information, yes, they should be required to give it up.

HEMMER: It hits close to home. Thank you, Jack.

A break here. In a moment, top stories. Also, the charges in that NBA brawl. One fan, a rather unusual offense for throwing a beer on Ron Artest. We'll talk to him about it live at the top of the hour here.

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Aired December 9, 2004 - 07:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It's not a bad day here in New York City, huh? Rob says it's going to change in a couple of hours from now.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I know (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that's nice.

HEMMER: I'll be on that plane heading off to Tokyo.

O'BRIEN: I'm surprised you're here at all, honestly. I thought we were doing our big good-byes yesterday, and then hi, Bill.

HEMMER: So did I.

O'BRIEN: But you leave in a little bit, right?

HEMMER: Yes, we sure do a bit later today, in fact. It's 7:30 here in New York. Good morning, everybody.

A bit earlier today we heard from the prosecutor in that basketbrawl case. In a few moments, we'll talk to lawyers for the fans said to have instigated that entire rumble. John Green allegedly threw the cup that started that fight. And we'll find out from his lawyers how much they believe Mr. Green, how much blame he's willing to take, if any at all. So we'll get to that in a few minutes.

O'BRIEN: So far, from what we've heard from him, not a whole heck of a lot.

HEMMER: Just an innocent bystander.

O'BRIEN: Yes, he doesn't quite deny it, but he doesn't quite admit it either. We'll see if he's changing his tune.

And also this morning, we're going to meet man who is a virtuoso of blowing things up. Mark Loizeaux is responsible for the last moments of many buildings and bridges. Three generations of his family work in the so-called demolition dynasty. Their story coming up.

HEMMER: The best segment of the day, hands down. A lot of things are down in that.

Here's Heidi Collins back with us and the headlines.

Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. And good morning to you, everybody.

"Now in the News" this morning.

Police in Columbus, Ohio, are still trying to figure out the motive behind a deadly shooting at a nightclub. Authorities say a man opened fire on band members and fans during a heavy metal concert last night. Police are now confirming the guitarist for the band is among the five people killed. The gunman was also shot dead.

Rescuers in the Philippines are still digging through the rubble from a round of devastating storms there. Rescuers were able to pull four people out alive today, though. The survivors had been trapped for 10 days in debris of a collapsed building. The storms in the Philippines have claimed more than 800 lives.

Treasury Secretary John Snow will be staying on as a member of President Bush's cabinet, ending speculation Snow was on his way out, but President Bush was asking his treasury chief to remain in his post. The 65-year-old Snow has led the department since February of 2003.

And your dream of touring outer space may soon be science fiction no more. The Senate has approved a bill to let the FAA issue permits allowing private companies to send passengers into the skies and beyond. Some would-be space tour operators say they'll be ready to offer private spaceflights in the next several years. Don't know the cost of those yet, but I'm thinking it might be a pretty penny.

O'BRIEN: What's it running like, $20 million right now?

COLLINS: Something like that.

O'BRIEN: We'll have to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COLLINS: And a brave, brave soul, too.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Probably most importantly.

COLLINS: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right, Heidi, thanks.

HEMMER: Back to the story now from Detroit. Five Indiana Pacers, five Detroit fans have been hit with assault and battery charges for their roles in last month's brawl. The Oakland County prosecutor blames one of the fans, John Green, for inciting the matter. Green's attorneys, Bart Morris and Shawn Patrick Smith, join me now from Birmingham, Michigan.

Gentlemen, good morning to both of you. Welcome here to AMERICAN MORNING.

SHAWN PATRICK SMITH, ATTORNEY FOR JOHN GREEN: Good morning, Bill.

BARTON MORRIS, ATTORNEY FOR JOHN GREEN: Good morning.

HEMMER: I want you to listen now to the prosecutor, David Gorcyca, from yesterday, clearly pointing a finger of blame at your client. Listen here now from that briefing from yesterday afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GORCYCA, OAKLAND COUNTY PROSECUTOR: John Green, we will depict, by my mind, single-handedly incited this whole interaction between the fans and players, and probably is the one that's most culpable, although there could be an argument made that the players were equally as culpable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Shawn, it sounds to me like he's singling out your client. It's pretty clear there. How will you defend John Green?

S. SMITH: Well, Bart and I are going to defend him until blood comes out of our eyes, because this guy did not commit any criminal act. The reckless behavior that you see associated with a cup throw, if they can prove it and they prove the intent, is not what started this.

What started this is a pervasive attitude in the NBA that they can do whatever they want to whoever they want, whenever they want. It's the new hip-hop generation of basketball. It's gangster basketball. And that's why we have a problem here.

We have Artest going up in the stands assaulting people, and he's the real problem, not John Green, not the fans of Detroit. They singled out these five fans, but in actuality, over 100 people were throwing stuff that night. As you see them exiting the stadium, you can see repeated all types of fans throwing stuff left and right. And they can identify all of those people. They can charge them.

HEMMER: Let me get to Bart for a second here. Just 30 minutes ago, the prosecutor was talking with Soledad. He said, in part, if he doesn't do it -- meaning John Green -- we're not talking about this today.

MORRIS: Well, see, what he is forgetting is that sports, in general, this happens all the time. Spectators throw things in sporting arenas, whether it be basketball, football, hockey. It happens all the time. And the players and the athletes, they are to expect that. They're paid to deal with that.

And in this situation, I don't believe that anybody throwing any debris onto the court or at a player can legitimately expect one of the players to react in that way. And that's what's unfortunate about Mr. Gorcyca's comments. He is saying that whoever is throwing debris at the players is to blame for this. That's not true at all. The blame... HEMMER: And the prosecutors are saying that helped incite the matter. Listen to your client with Larry King just about 10 days ago about this matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN GREEN, ACCUSED IN BASKETBRAWL: When the fight broke out, everybody started yelling "fight." And we -- a bunch of us ran down into the aisle and started getting a better view of what was going on. We were a few rows up further. There were just some empty seats we ran to when we saw that nobody was sitting in them. The fight broke out when a cup that came from our direction landed on Ron Artest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Shawn, if you listen to that comment with Larry King here on CNN, it appears that John Green says he was just essentially an innocent bystander in all of this. Yet, later in the videotape when he's on the back of Ron Artest, you can clearly see him throw a punch. What was the result of that? Why did that occur?

P. SMITH: Oh, well, it's clear that what happens is Artest runs up, goes right past John Green, who is about the biggest guy in the area, and attacks the little guy next to him. John is an ex-Marine. When John sees him attack that little guy, he comes to the little guy's defense. He and five other people are trying to pull Artest off the back of that small fan who had nothing to do with anything that night. And that's when there's some rough activity there. And it's only because John was in defense of the small guy, and he was just trying to help him out.

MORRIS: He is defending himself as well. There is definitely a possibility that John was assaulted by Artest prior to him throwing punches or what looked as though that he was throwing punches. So, he was not only protecting himself, he was protecting others.

HEMMER: Thank you, gentlemen. We'll talk about this next hour again. There is a lot to talk about, too, out of Birmingham, Michigan, this morning. Shawn Patrick Smith with us today, and Bart Morris, attorneys for John Green. The story is not done yet. Thank you, gentlemen.

Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Greg Anthony. He's a former NBA player and also an ESPN basketball analyst.

Nice to se you.

GREG ANTHONY, ESPN BASKETBALL ANALYST: Good to see you.

O'BRIEN: You heard what the lawyers had to say. First let me, though, ask you about the charge before you get into that. What do you think of these charges now filed? What's your reaction?

ANTHONY: It's exactly what one would have expected. Again, basically it's a simple assault, a misdemeanor, for most parties involved. And unless you have a prior record, you're probably not going to see any jail time. Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just speaking from legal minds that I have spoken to.

But I will say in reference to what the gentlemen who are representing Mr. Green, it seems to me like their defense is going to be somewhat of a Jedi mind trick, because -- I mean to, be able to sit there and honestly say that what occurred in their minds and when you compare it to what you saw on the video, I mean, it's a little bit embarrassing.

O'BRIEN: But they did say that what's really to blame -- I'm paraphrasing here -- is this pervasive attitude in the NBA that the players can do whatever they want. And there's a sense, look, you've got to climb the stands and he's going to take out whoever he thinks was the guy.

ANTHONY: Well, again, as an African-American and a former professional athlete, I definitely take offense with the comments of this being gangster basketball or hip-hop basketball. One has nothing to do with the other. And then what's the excuse for the fans who were throwing things? Are they also fans of hip-hop and gangster rap? And is that why they're at professional sporting events?

O'BRIEN: Do they make a point, though, when they say, listen, you guys, and back in the day when you were playing, you make a ton of money. And to some degree, you've got to expect -- you have to expect that fans are going to toss something on you?

ANTHONY: Again, I have yet to see the fact that you make money determine whether or not or how you're going to react and respond when your emotional buttons have been pushed. And again, that's what we have to focus in on.

And then remember, altercations happen in sports, but rarely do they involve the fans. And, yes, there are times when fans will throw things out on the floor or on the field, but it's typically based upon decisions that are made by officials or the outcome of a game. It's not directly after a scenario where you've just had this heated, volatile interaction between players, which, again, is something that's common.

That whole situation had been calmed down, and you heard the district attorney speak about that, that really what incited this entire melee, if you will, was the fact that there was a fan, allegedly John Green, who tossed something out onto the players and escalated the violence.

O'BRIEN: I don't want to sound like I'm getting old, but there is a sense that...

ANTHONY: Well, we are.

O'BRIEN: ... back in the day, you know, you wouldn't see -- and I have, you know, spent a lot of time in Boston watching the Celtics play. And you just wouldn't see this. Are we in a new era as far as what fans feel that they can do to these, maybe they perceive the stars as being way overpaid and they kind of deserve, to some degree, this?

ANTHONY: Well, if that's what they perceive, then that's unfortunate, because in terms of the relative dollars that are created or are generated by sports, then athletes get a particular share of that.

Look, the reason that athletes, as our entertainers and our performers, are paid the exorbitant amounts of money that they're paid is because they provide a unique talent that the average individual is unable to perform. I mean, if it were that easy to do, more people would do it. And thusly, it probably wouldn't be as unique and you wouldn't see the types of revenue being generated.

O'BRIEN: Things have changed a lot, do you think, since you played?

ANTHONY: No. Violence is a part. It has always been a part. But it's been somewhat controlled for the most part. Again, and you talk about Boston. There were a lot of fights in Boston. I remember Larry Bird growing up...

O'BRIEN: Nothing like that.

ANTHONY: Larry Bird...

O'BRIEN: Nothing like that.

ANTHONY: Well, but again, that's because fans never got involved. It stayed on the court. The players -- again, it's expected somewhat, because of the emotion and the intensity with which one goes out and performs at that higher level. But again, it was always controlled and kept on the court, and the fans didn't feel a need to go out and get involved.

O'BRIEN: ESPN basketball analyst Greg Anthony. Nice to have you, and nice to have you back.

ANTHONY: Thank you. I enjoyed it.

O'BRIEN: All right -- Bill.

HEMMER: It's now 20 minutes before the hour. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld now says the complaints he heard in Kuwait could end up being constructive for the troops. Yesterday, troops peppered the secretary with questions about what and why they had to scrounge for armor and about extended tours of duty in Iraq. His answer that they would have to make do stirred a bit more anger.

Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon this morning.

Barbara -- good morning there.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill. Well, indeed the secretary told those troops that basically, you go to war with the army you have. And now, there has been a lot of questions. A lot of people are wondering if Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was mad or angry at the questions he got from the audience, especially the question about not enough armor for the troops going into Iraq.

The secretary has now responded, and he says he's not mad. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think it's important that senior leadership meet with the troops, talk to them, ask them questions, listen to what they have to say. And I must say, I find myself not surprised at all at the kinds of things I hear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: But it did raise a lot of questions. And here, yesterday, the Pentagon spokesman spoke to reporters about the situation with the armor, what vehicles are armored, what vehicles are not. Here is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE DI RITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: The policy is that units that are going into Iraq, if they're going to drive their vehicles into Iraq, they drive in armored vehicles. If their vehicles aren't armored, the policy is that they are convoyed on other vehicles. They're put on the back of trucks. And they're used for operations around the base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So, where do things stand right now, Bill? Well, the military is currently making about 450 armored Humvees every month. They acknowledge they still need about another 2,000 of them. They're working to do that.

Nonetheless, all of this certainly raising the question again about the armor protection that the troops do have once they get inside Iraq -- Bill.

HEMMER: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks for that -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Another winter storm buffeted the northern Sierras. Wild winds in Nevada were powerful enough to roll over semi-trucks and other vehicles. At least one state highway was closed after four semis were blown right off the road. One fatality was reported.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We're hitting the road next week, another reminder. In fact, in a few hours. Live in Tokyo starting on Monday. A series of special reports throughout that country on U.S./Japanese relations. We'll talk with a number of high-ranking officials there. The U.S. military involvement, the U.S. ambassador, et cetera. Morning in the U.S. is primetime in Japan.

O'BRIEN: Oh, 9:00 p.m., right?

HEMMER: That's right. My flight leaves at noon, by the way. I'm hoping to make it.

O'BRIEN: Really?

Still to come this morning, a major airline is about to make history with a flight 30 years in the making. Andy is "Minding Your Business" this morning.

HEMMER: Also, the family business that blew up, literally, into a demolition dynasty. Name the building that was the toughest to bring down. We will after this on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The Loizeauxes are the first family of demolition. For nearly a half a century, they have been imploding all kinds of structures all over the world. Now, they're featured in a series of National Geographic Channel specials. The first one, "Demolition Dynasty," premieres tonight. Mark Loizeaux is the head of controlled demolition, joining us to talk a little bit about the family business.

Nice to have you. Thanks for coming in to talk to us.

MARK LOIZEAUX: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Three generations in this business. How did it all start?

LOIZEAUX: It started with my dad. He was the youngest of seven boys, and he was competitive by nature, I think. And he went to Barstree (ph) School, used explosives there, saw a chimney, it looked like a brick tree. Someone said, can you knock it down? Yes. And in 1947, he dropped his first structure, and it's been an interesting run from there.

O'BRIEN: Some people might think it's easy to blow things up. But actually, because a lot of your work is done in cities and towns, you have to be incredibly careful, not just for the safety of your own team obviously, but because you're doing something right in the heart of a city sometimes.

LOIZEAUX: It's a fairly simple process, Soledad, in that you're using gravity. It's free. It's available all the time. And buildings and bridges weigh a lot, and they want to come down. But there's a lot of engineering employment that goes into it. That's true.

O'BRIEN: How do you protect the folks around it? I mean, you bring up a bridge like this, or you're blowing up a stadium like the Seattle Kingdome, we saw, which was a pretty remarkable thing to watch collapse, I've got to tell you.

LOIZEAUX: It's not how much explosives you use. It's how you use it. And you let gravity bring the structure down. So, we're minimalists by nature. We use the minimum amount of explosives to release a structure and let gravity do the job. Where necessary, we will protect adjacent properties. And we always pull people back so they're at a safe distance. One of the problems with implosions is people like to watch.

O'BRIEN: What was the hardest thing to ever bring down?

LOIZEAUX: I think hardest thing emotionally would have been the Murrah Federal Building after the bombing there. That was very difficult for all of us. In fact, Stacy (ph) refused to go to that job.

I think probably the most technical structure, the most difficult structure from an engineering standpoint, would be the Kingdome in Seattle, Washington. A very complex structure, post-tension. All of these tendons pulled very, very tight in the structure. A lot of older structures around a community that spoke six different languages, communication is a problem. But we have a wonderful team of people, both the Loizeaux family and our corporate family. And it works well.

O'BRIEN: What do you think when you think about sort of your place in the world and how your work, you know, creates the face of the planet, frankly, since you've been all around the world?

LOIZEAUX: Well, we have been all around the world. And like most architectures or contractors would go around with their children, their grandchildren, and say I built that structure, I built that structure, my brother, Doug, and I say...

O'BRIEN: Let's get out.

LOIZEAUX: ... we cleared this space so they could build that structure. But it's fun to help cities and countries and societies revitalize themselves. It's a wonderful time. It's a real privilege to be involved and to be able to make a difference.

O'BRIEN: Mark Loizeaux, it's a wonderful, wonderful story, a fascinating story and family history. Thanks for coming in to talk to us about it. We appreciate it.

LOIZEAUX: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: "Demolition Dynasty" airs tonight at 8:00 Eastern on the National Geographic channel, with encore presentations on Sunday from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. -- Bill.

HEMMER: We're looking forward to more of that. Thanks, Soledad.

In a moment here, United makes history today, going somewhere no U.S. airline has gone in more than 30 years. Andy is "Minding Your Business" after a short break here. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: A preview of the action on Wall Street. Also, after years, flights start up again from the U.S. to Vietnam. And that is history, certainly. Andy Serwer is back with us "Minding Your Business."

Good morning to you.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.

HEMMER: Is this Ho Chi Minh City?

SERWER: Yes.

HEMMER: Is this Hanoi?

SERWER: Yes. While, you're flying to Japan, I figured a diversion today perhaps?

HEMMER: OK.

SERWER: 3:10 Eastern out of San Francisco, Flight 869 will be departing to Ho Chi Minh City via Hong Kong. United Airlines, the first commercial flight to Vietnam in more than 30 years since the end of the Vietnam War. Isn't that truly amazing?

And, you know, it's about time. The economy is growing very fast there. Billions of dollars are traded between the United States and Vietnam now, an important link to China. And it will be interesting to see.

You know, I know all kinds of people who have gone to Vietnam as tourists, but obviously you'd have to fly to Hong Kong first and jump off. And now there is actually going to be a direct flight.

HEMMER: Their economy is booming.

SERWER: It really is.

HEMMER: Years ago it was 15 percent. I don't know if it's still...

SERWER: It's about 10 percent right now, but it's still...

HEMMER: It's huge, yes.

SERWER: That's still huge.

HEMMER: Hey, what's happening with Jay Z? A new gig or what?

SERWER: Yes, Jay Z has got himself a new job. He is now leaving the rapper suite and going to the executive suite. Rappers don't have suites. He's leaving the recording studio and becoming a record executive. He has been named the head of Def Jam Records. Antonio "LA" Reid has named him to that post. He could make $5 million to $10 million a year.

And didn't he have a tune, "A Hard Knock Life?" I don't think so. And it's possible that Beyonce could end up as a senior VP, don't you think?

HEMMER: Oh, I think there's a pretty good chance, my friend.

O'BRIEN: Oh absolutely.

One would hope so.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: You know, you want to bring your friends and family along on those kinds of promotions.

HEMMER: Bringing them in.

SERWER: Indeed.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Didn't they reunite -- isn't there a new video out as Destiny's Child with Beyonce?

SERWER: You know. How does he know that?

O'BRIEN: Well, look at Jack.

SERWER: Wow! Mr. Pop culture over there.

CAFFERTY: Can I get on "90-Second Pop."

O'BRIEN: You know what? Yes, you may.

CAFFERTY: No, I absolutely refuse to appear on that segment. The "Question of the Day." U.S. versus Judith Miller of "The New York Times" and Matthew Cooper of "TIME" magazine. They're refusing to appear before a grand jury investigating the suspected link of a high- profile CIA operative's name to the media. And because of their refusal, they could be facing 18 months in the slam.

Reporters traditionally are protected from reviewing sources to the government. But because grand jury testimony is supposed to be kept secret, even though most of the time it's not, the court may rule against these two reporters.

The question is this: Should journalists be compelled to reveal sources to a grand jury?

John in New Orleans writes: "The threat to arrest journalists for withholding names of informants is just one more attempt to whittle away our rights as Americans. The reporters should stand firm." Pamela in Michigan: "The day we start making journalists give up their sources is the day we lose freedom of the press. And I can't recall any time in my history where freedom of the press is needed more than right now."

Peter in Texas: "A delicate balance here. Protect sources, yes. But not at the public's expense. When a prosecutor can show an impartial judge that, but for the revelation of sources by a reporter, the public will suffer serious harm, that reporter must reveal his source."

J.R. in Vicksburg, Mississippi: "Journalists should not reveal their sources. The basic threat of uncensored and honest journalism is at stake here. To circumvent this would yet again cause Americans to lose trust in the courts and view them as a pawn of an ever- increasing pressure from the executive branch of government."

And Allen in Waco, Texas: "Journalists should not have to give up their sources, or most sources will dry up, unless, of course, the sources are requested by the Republicans or have something to do with national security."

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Did anybody say, yes, give it up?

CAFFERTY: Huh?

O'BRIEN: Did anybody sort of weigh in with yes, give it up?

CAFFERTY: Well, that one, Peter said if an impartial judge decides that the public stands to be harmed by the failure of the reporters to divulge information, yes, they should be required to give it up.

HEMMER: It hits close to home. Thank you, Jack.

A break here. In a moment, top stories. Also, the charges in that NBA brawl. One fan, a rather unusual offense for throwing a beer on Ron Artest. We'll talk to him about it live at the top of the hour here.

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