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CNN Live At Daybreak

Security Officials at Airport in Newark, New Jersey Lose Fake Bomb; Pentagon Says Most Wanted man in Iraq Likely in Baghdad

Aired December 16, 2004 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Welcome to the second half hour of DAYBREAK. From the CNN Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello.
"Now In The News": A bit of breaking news to tell you about. Apparently, an audio tape made by Osama bin Laden, at least we think so, appears on a web site. We don't know much more about it but he does mention a recent attack in Saudi Arabia on the U.S. consulate. When we get more information on this we'll pass it on to you.

Ways to fix Social Security take the spotlight of today's final session of the Bush economic conference in Washington. Other topics, making the tax cut permanent and limiting damage awards against businesses and doctors, and overhaul of the tax code is also on the agenda.

Another political killing in Baghdad. A car carrying the director general of Iraq's communications ministry was riddled with bullets. He and one of his bodyguards were killed, but the gunmen escaped.

In Ukraine, a shift in campaign strategy for the December 26 presidential re-run. Opposition leader Victor Yushchenko will forgo rallies and head for eastern Ukraine to meet with businessmen. It's an area where he needs more support.

To the Forecast Center now and Chad.

Good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I like how you say, Yushchenko.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Well, you know....

MYERS: We got so many e-mails about that.

COSTELLO: I know. And everyone was pronouncing it Yu-SHEN-ko, but it is hard to get you mind around YU-shen-ko, sometimes.

MYERS: Yes, right. The accent is on the first one. There you go.

(WEATHER FORECAST) COSTELLO: Security officials at the airport in Newark, New Jersey are a bit embarrassed this morning. They lost a fake bomb. It was part of a training exercise. A machine spotted the fake bomb, complete with wires, and a clock and detonator, planted in some luggage. And then, oops! They just lost it. It was later found aboard a plane that landed in Europe.

But New Jersey has a much bigger security problem, if you can believe that. A dramatic cut in federal funds from Homeland Security. CNN's Deborah Feyerick has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On September 11, Fire Captain Edward Sisk and his rescue unit raced from their station house in Elizabeth, New Jersey, to the smoldering ruins of the World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan. It took just 15 minutes.

CHIEF EDWARD SISK, UNION CO., NEW JERSEY FIRE DEPT.: We don't look at it, New York versus New Jersey. We're facing the same threats, you know, everyday.

FEYERICK: Across the river, and there you are. Two states, close as sisters. But while New York City's federal anti-terrorism dollars soared, up 340 percent for next year, in New Jersey the money was slashed by 35 percent.

SHERIFF ARMANDO FONTOURA, ESSEX COUNTY, NEW JERSEY: It looks like the Grinch (ph) showed up and said, Hey, you guys, we don't care about you. We think you got enough.

FEYERICK: New Jersey has a major international airport, three vital shipping ports, a two-mile stretch of oil refineries and chemical plants, and countless commuter neighborhoods, all right next to Manhattan. Every time there is a threat, as there was this summer, they are all potential targets.

So, why New Jersey politicians asked, is emergency response money being cut at such a critical time?

GOV. RICHARD CODEY, (D) NEW JERSEY: The terrorists of 9/11, at some point lived in New Jersey. The terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993, in the underground garage, all lived in New Jersey. How in god's name can the president justify this? It is unconscionable.

FEYERICK (on camera): Five years ago, was this a piece of equipment you ever thought you'd be called on to use?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. Not -- since 9/11 the world has changed.

FEYERICK: After 9/11, emergency responders across northern New Jersey came up with a plan. It involved buying high-tech equipment like decontamination tents one year, and training the next. CAPT. JAMES DRYLIE, W. ORANGE, NEW JERSEY POLICE: Having the reduction in funding that they're proposing is going to restrict our ability to protect ourselves, both as police and firefighters, but also to protect the general public.

FEYERICK: First responders say the proposed cuts likely mean fewer trauma centers, fewer radiation detectors, and fewer radio systems linking on scene police and fire commanders.

DEPUTY CHIEF LATHEY WIRKUS, UNION. CO. FIRE DEPT.: You watch what's going on over in Iraq and you see that they don't have the proper equipment to protect their vehicles, with armor. Well, the same thing is occurring here. They're telling us, well we want you to take care of a terrorist attack, but we're not going to give the armor to protect your people.

FEYERICK: The outgoing Homeland Security secretary offers no details, but blames the cuts on Congress' formula for handing out money.

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY, HOMELAND SECURITY: Some people win, and some people got more, some communities got less.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It certainly doesn't benefit the citizens in trying to protect them appropriately.

FEYERICK: A fear that keeps many first responders awake at night -- Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Morris Plains, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: To the war in Iraq now. The Pentagon says the most wanted man in Iraq, Islamic militant leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, is most likely in Baghdad. Senior International Editor David Clinch joins us now with the latest on that.

How is that possible?

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Well, Carol, we're not entirely sure. How the Pentagon, or what the Pentagon is basing this statement on. They're making it clear that they believe that Zarqawi was not in or escaped from Falluja when they launched their massive military operation there.

Now, indicating that they believe he may be in Baghdad. Now, of course, they're saying that they do not know for sure. But they say that they believe there are areas of Baghdad where people would support him and he would be able to hide.

And clearly the insurgency is continuing despite the military action in Falluja. And Zarqawi has still not been captured. So, apparently as good a guess as anywhere else, apparently, at this point.

COSTELLO: Well, the reason I say that with some surprise is because, of course, that is where the U.S. forces are based, Baghdad. And you'd think it would be difficult for Zarqawi to hide there. Everybody thought he went to Mosul, after being driven out of Falluja.

CLINCH: Well, all good points, Carol. There is from the very beginning, with Zarqawi, you know we're hearing this Osama bin Laden tape today, he's sort of the great ghost out there. In Iraq's terms, Zarqawi is the great ghost. We've never actually known for sure where he is.

We've got all of these pieces of information about what he is said to have said in audio tapes. What he says in video, all of these things, his actions speak for himself. But there has never been any concrete information of where he is. It was never even concretely certain that he was in Falluja when the U.S. military launched its assault there.

So, they're saying he might be in Baghdad. There are areas of Baghdad which could be described, at times, as being lawless. And certainly the insurgency is hitting in Baghdad. There was a senior communications official of the Iraq government killed today in the streets of Baghdad. Iraqi police killed today, in the streets of Baghdad.

And so there is, according to the U.S. a possibility that he's there. Whether he's controlling all of this insurgency, of course, has been and still is a very big question.

COSTELLO: You know, and we should point out that Baghdad isn't exactly a small city and there would be many places to hide.

CLINCH: Millions of people. And quite clearly people who would support him if they had the chance to. Again, the U.S. -- while saying he's there and while saying they want to get him -- they're saying too, that they don't know how much control he has over the broader insurgency and trying not to put too much emphasis on whether his capture is the most important thing out there. They want to make it absolutely clear that the insurgency will not end, just because of the arrest or death of one man.

COSTELLO: David Clinch, live in Atlanta. Thank you.

CLINCH: All right, Carol.

COSTELLO: What would you do to win $50,000? Try riding one of these.

Look at that. It's much harder than you think.

Stay with us for details of the 20th Annual Big Wave International on Oahu's North Shore. And I'm talking 50-foot waves. Incredible.

And take a tour of the White House Christmas decorations with a special guide. Have you seen this? It's hilarious. It's Barney Bush the president is talking to.

But first here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning. (GRAPHIC WITH HEADLINES)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are going to talk about the largest floating thing on the planet, right now.

Chad, do you know what that thing is?

MYERS: That is an iceberg, Carol, off Antarctica.

COSTELLO: It is incredible. And it is threatening the Antarctic Science Station and it is also threatening tens of thousands of baby penguins.

MYERS: Right.

COSTELLO: Those would be the parents.

MYERS: Because they can't get back to where they feed, is what I understand. But we've got a guest that is actually going to straighten that out for us.

COSTELLO: Yes. There is some ice build up caused by this iceberg, it has cut off the penguins access to food.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: And we are going to be joined, right now, as a matter fact, by David Ainley. He's part of a penguin research project in Antarctica.

Good morning, David.

DAVID AINLEY, MARINE BIOLOGIST: Good morning to you. It's actually night time here.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Well, good evening then. We understand.

First of all, tell us about this iceberg, and where it is, and where exactly it is?

AINLEY: This iceberg is about 60 miles long and 20 miles wide. And it afloat in the Southern Ross Sea, which is south of New Zealand, about 2,000 miles.

COSTELLO: And why is it endangering these penguins?

AINLEY: Well, along with calm winds it has inspired to prevent cast ice (ph) from blowing away, cast ice (ph) is a continuous sheet of ice on the sea. And penguins being air-breathing creatures need to have access to open water and you know, they can't forage that far underneath the ice. So they have to walk out to the ice edge, which for penguins, in southern most penguin colony it means a walk of 60 miles. So, it takes them about six days, going and coming. And add that to the fact that they have to recover from fasting for a couple of weeks. It adds a whole lot of time to their trips and their mates desert the next while they're waiting and so...

COSTELLO: Right, so basically what happens is the penguins can't fish in the water for food because of this iceberg. They have to walk this 60 miles and by the time they turn around and walk back they have to leave chicks, behind of course. By the time the penguin parents walk back, they get hungry, they eat the food, which means their baby penguins will probably die of starvation.

The interesting thing about this is you are studying these penguins because of global warming. How are the two connected?

AINLEY: Well, the world has been getting warmer for a long time. Getting warmer more rapidly in the last 50 or so years, and it is causing changes in the climate and in the Antarctic and possibly related to a higher frequency of the halving of these icebergs. It is actually too early to say, if that is the case, you know, if there will be more icebergs.

These icebergs have been halving off (AUDIO GAP) thousand years, as we've been moving from the last ice age. So, down here at the very southern most reach (ph) of the ocean, icebergs are a fact of life.

COSTELLO: Is there any way to save these baby penguins? Are there any efforts being made?

AINLEY: No, there -- not really. There is -- you know, it is these birds they are sort of pushing the envelope so to speak. They are right down here at the, as I said, the very southern-most reach of the ocean. This scenario probably has occurred before. And eventually they overcome it.

The thing they can't really overcome is increased fishing for food in this area and increased whaling. Those are two factors that they have not experienced in the all of the period they've been on the earth.

They can probably overcome these icebergs but they are not going to overcome the over fishing.

COSTELLO: Yes. David Ainley, a penguin -- part of a penguin research project in Antarctica joining DAYBREAK live this morning. Thanks for joining us.

We're going to toss to a quick break, we'll be back. We'll be back with much more, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: There's a lot going on this morning. This just in to CNN. Britain's highest court has issue an important ruling in the war on terror. The court says the British government cannot detain terror suspects indefinitely, without trial. Sound familiar? For more on the impact of this ruling let's head live to London and CNN's Diana Muriel.

Hello, Diana.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.

Yes, indeed, a the last hour, the nine British law lords, sitting in the House of Lords, made an historic judgment. They were eight to one against the government. They upheld and appeal that was being brought nine prisoners being held in British jails. The majority of them in the Belmarsh (ph) high security prison, in the East of London.

They upheld this appeal, which is an against a section of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act. This was brought in, in the aftermath of the September 11 bombings, in the United States. And it was part of the British response to the war on terror.

The law lords found that it was indeed illegal to indefinitely detain foreign nationals suspected of terrorism, without trial, here Britain. And to add insult to injury they also requested that the British government pay for the appeals process.

They found that it was unjustifiable for the British government to step out side the European Convention on Human Rights and suspend the right to a fair trial, which they did on the 14 of November, 2001, when the British Home Secretary declared a technical state of emergency here in Britain.

They also found that the legislation was discriminatory against foreign nationals and that it was irrational that it should apply just to foreign nationals and not to British citizens.

So, an historic ruling, just in this last hour, from the British law lords, in the House of Lords, Carol.

COSTELLO: Diana Muriel, reporting live from London this morning. Thank you.

We're going to talk about those 50-foot waves in Hawaii. They're just incredible. When we come back we'll have a live guest for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Oh, for some it may look like a tidal wave but, Chad, for the world's best surfers, the giant waves on Oahu's North Shore are an opportunity to compete.

Can you believe those waves, Chad?

MYERS: You know, I have been to the North Shore, I have been to where that picture is being taken. And the waves were nothing like that, maybe four to six feet. But this is -- oh, my gosh, this is over like a 15-story building at times.

COSTELLO: Isn't that something? One surfer described it as, if you looked at a high-rise building, that's what the wave looks like coming at you. And these people are actually riding those waves in this invitational competition that is only held in such extreme conditions. For more we're joined by Jodi Young, she's a spokeswoman for the competition.

Good morning, Jodi.

JODI YOUNG, SPOKESPERSON, EDDIE AIKAU BIG WAVE INVITATIONAL: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, tell us about the waves.

YOUNG: It really is phenomenal, even for those of us who are fortunate enough to experience this winter after winter in Hawaii. But I tell you it has been a very restless 36 hours. It is almost impossible to sleep. These waves sound like freight trains as they're packing their way into the coastline on the North Shore of Oahu.

And a very -- just a relentless period of about 36 hours of non- stop surf in the range of about 20 to 40 feet. And it is just phenomenal to watch. It's really nature at its most awesome. And to think that someone can just paddle out there under the steam of two arms and launch themselves over what looks to be a cliff. It's just you know beyond the imagination for many of us. And almost beyond the imagination for some of them, as well.

They actually paddle out there having never done it before in waves that big.

COSTELLO: Oh!

MYERS: Wow.

YOUNG: So, you know I think that's a different breed of person we're talking about.

COSTELLO: Boy, you're not kidding. Describe, I mean, are there a lot of people on the beach watching?

YOUNG: You know the one thing that we did have with this last pattern was swell was that it was -- we could see it coming for about five days, definitely. And the talk about it around town really did bring the Island of Oahu close to a standstill yesterday. We had traffic jams that extended almost 30 miles. We had people who just abandoned their vehicles and walked for two hours just to come and see it.

And it is just one lane in each direction to the North Shore. It's a pretty raw set up that we've got down here. Very naturally beautiful, but raw nonetheless. And we really had Waimea Bay at a maximum capacity of around 20,000 plus. It couldn't have handled any more.

COSTELLO: Wow!

YOUNG: It was bursting at the seams. And it was bursting on the ocean, too.

COSTELLO: Well, tell us about the competition itself. Who won and how and how big the wave was that the surfer road, if I'm getting the lingo down.

YOUNG: You're doing too badly, actually. It was the Quicksilver in memory of Eddie Aikau, an event that has been held for 20 years now, in the memory of Eddie Aikau, the North Shore's first lifeguard at Waimea Bay and one of the pioneer big wave riders going way back to the late '60s actually. He actually went missing in 1978 and we've had an event in his honor for 20 years.

So, what we actually saw was a generation of surfers only about one or two of them who actually knew Aikau. One of them his younger brother, yesterday, who is now 51. But the event was won by a 25 year old from the Island of Kuai (ph), by the name of Bruce Irons.

He's the little brother of the world's surfing champion at the moment. And you know, he and his world champion brother said, well, we're going to paddle out, we're just not too sure if we're going to actually take the drop out there. But we wanted to get a close up, anyway.

But they ended up getting out there and I don't know how, but just for getting that nerves (ph) ever existed. And they took off on waves that, easily, 40-feet in height, in the morning. And you know, just hurtling down the face of these waves. Riding them all the way through. And the amazing thing about Waimea Bay is that at it hits the shore it doubles up over itself. And some of the shore breaks that they were surfing right into were about 20 feet as well. Just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of sand.

And really thrilling the crowd. It was an amazing day. It was definitely evolution in the sport of big wave riding and...

COSTELLO: I just, I mean, I'm sure you agree with me, Chad, in that we both wish we could have been there in person to see it.

MYERS: Just to see it. Although walking all the way from the pineapple plantation all the way to the North Shore, would have been a long walk.

Jodi, I have a question for you though. Was anybody hurt? We always hear about people getting injured. Running into each other, because you can't see inside these waves. Was everybody OK after this?

YOUNG: There was just one or two minor scrapes. One surfer actually hit the bottom and that is 40-feet deep.

MYERS: Oh!

YOUNG: So that is a lot of power to take you down that deep. And one other surfer had a bit of a knee twist. Darrel Verosco (ph) from Northern California. But the amazing thing is statistic actually give more serious surfing injuries in waves less than 5 feet.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: Wow! Jodi Young, thank you for joining us live from Hawaii. We appreciate it. Fascinating stuff.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: And we're going to get to your e-mails, by the way, in the next hour of DAYBREAK, which by the way, begins right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired December 16, 2004 - 05:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Welcome to the second half hour of DAYBREAK. From the CNN Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello.
"Now In The News": A bit of breaking news to tell you about. Apparently, an audio tape made by Osama bin Laden, at least we think so, appears on a web site. We don't know much more about it but he does mention a recent attack in Saudi Arabia on the U.S. consulate. When we get more information on this we'll pass it on to you.

Ways to fix Social Security take the spotlight of today's final session of the Bush economic conference in Washington. Other topics, making the tax cut permanent and limiting damage awards against businesses and doctors, and overhaul of the tax code is also on the agenda.

Another political killing in Baghdad. A car carrying the director general of Iraq's communications ministry was riddled with bullets. He and one of his bodyguards were killed, but the gunmen escaped.

In Ukraine, a shift in campaign strategy for the December 26 presidential re-run. Opposition leader Victor Yushchenko will forgo rallies and head for eastern Ukraine to meet with businessmen. It's an area where he needs more support.

To the Forecast Center now and Chad.

Good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I like how you say, Yushchenko.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Well, you know....

MYERS: We got so many e-mails about that.

COSTELLO: I know. And everyone was pronouncing it Yu-SHEN-ko, but it is hard to get you mind around YU-shen-ko, sometimes.

MYERS: Yes, right. The accent is on the first one. There you go.

(WEATHER FORECAST) COSTELLO: Security officials at the airport in Newark, New Jersey are a bit embarrassed this morning. They lost a fake bomb. It was part of a training exercise. A machine spotted the fake bomb, complete with wires, and a clock and detonator, planted in some luggage. And then, oops! They just lost it. It was later found aboard a plane that landed in Europe.

But New Jersey has a much bigger security problem, if you can believe that. A dramatic cut in federal funds from Homeland Security. CNN's Deborah Feyerick has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On September 11, Fire Captain Edward Sisk and his rescue unit raced from their station house in Elizabeth, New Jersey, to the smoldering ruins of the World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan. It took just 15 minutes.

CHIEF EDWARD SISK, UNION CO., NEW JERSEY FIRE DEPT.: We don't look at it, New York versus New Jersey. We're facing the same threats, you know, everyday.

FEYERICK: Across the river, and there you are. Two states, close as sisters. But while New York City's federal anti-terrorism dollars soared, up 340 percent for next year, in New Jersey the money was slashed by 35 percent.

SHERIFF ARMANDO FONTOURA, ESSEX COUNTY, NEW JERSEY: It looks like the Grinch (ph) showed up and said, Hey, you guys, we don't care about you. We think you got enough.

FEYERICK: New Jersey has a major international airport, three vital shipping ports, a two-mile stretch of oil refineries and chemical plants, and countless commuter neighborhoods, all right next to Manhattan. Every time there is a threat, as there was this summer, they are all potential targets.

So, why New Jersey politicians asked, is emergency response money being cut at such a critical time?

GOV. RICHARD CODEY, (D) NEW JERSEY: The terrorists of 9/11, at some point lived in New Jersey. The terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993, in the underground garage, all lived in New Jersey. How in god's name can the president justify this? It is unconscionable.

FEYERICK (on camera): Five years ago, was this a piece of equipment you ever thought you'd be called on to use?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. Not -- since 9/11 the world has changed.

FEYERICK: After 9/11, emergency responders across northern New Jersey came up with a plan. It involved buying high-tech equipment like decontamination tents one year, and training the next. CAPT. JAMES DRYLIE, W. ORANGE, NEW JERSEY POLICE: Having the reduction in funding that they're proposing is going to restrict our ability to protect ourselves, both as police and firefighters, but also to protect the general public.

FEYERICK: First responders say the proposed cuts likely mean fewer trauma centers, fewer radiation detectors, and fewer radio systems linking on scene police and fire commanders.

DEPUTY CHIEF LATHEY WIRKUS, UNION. CO. FIRE DEPT.: You watch what's going on over in Iraq and you see that they don't have the proper equipment to protect their vehicles, with armor. Well, the same thing is occurring here. They're telling us, well we want you to take care of a terrorist attack, but we're not going to give the armor to protect your people.

FEYERICK: The outgoing Homeland Security secretary offers no details, but blames the cuts on Congress' formula for handing out money.

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY, HOMELAND SECURITY: Some people win, and some people got more, some communities got less.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It certainly doesn't benefit the citizens in trying to protect them appropriately.

FEYERICK: A fear that keeps many first responders awake at night -- Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Morris Plains, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: To the war in Iraq now. The Pentagon says the most wanted man in Iraq, Islamic militant leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, is most likely in Baghdad. Senior International Editor David Clinch joins us now with the latest on that.

How is that possible?

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Well, Carol, we're not entirely sure. How the Pentagon, or what the Pentagon is basing this statement on. They're making it clear that they believe that Zarqawi was not in or escaped from Falluja when they launched their massive military operation there.

Now, indicating that they believe he may be in Baghdad. Now, of course, they're saying that they do not know for sure. But they say that they believe there are areas of Baghdad where people would support him and he would be able to hide.

And clearly the insurgency is continuing despite the military action in Falluja. And Zarqawi has still not been captured. So, apparently as good a guess as anywhere else, apparently, at this point.

COSTELLO: Well, the reason I say that with some surprise is because, of course, that is where the U.S. forces are based, Baghdad. And you'd think it would be difficult for Zarqawi to hide there. Everybody thought he went to Mosul, after being driven out of Falluja.

CLINCH: Well, all good points, Carol. There is from the very beginning, with Zarqawi, you know we're hearing this Osama bin Laden tape today, he's sort of the great ghost out there. In Iraq's terms, Zarqawi is the great ghost. We've never actually known for sure where he is.

We've got all of these pieces of information about what he is said to have said in audio tapes. What he says in video, all of these things, his actions speak for himself. But there has never been any concrete information of where he is. It was never even concretely certain that he was in Falluja when the U.S. military launched its assault there.

So, they're saying he might be in Baghdad. There are areas of Baghdad which could be described, at times, as being lawless. And certainly the insurgency is hitting in Baghdad. There was a senior communications official of the Iraq government killed today in the streets of Baghdad. Iraqi police killed today, in the streets of Baghdad.

And so there is, according to the U.S. a possibility that he's there. Whether he's controlling all of this insurgency, of course, has been and still is a very big question.

COSTELLO: You know, and we should point out that Baghdad isn't exactly a small city and there would be many places to hide.

CLINCH: Millions of people. And quite clearly people who would support him if they had the chance to. Again, the U.S. -- while saying he's there and while saying they want to get him -- they're saying too, that they don't know how much control he has over the broader insurgency and trying not to put too much emphasis on whether his capture is the most important thing out there. They want to make it absolutely clear that the insurgency will not end, just because of the arrest or death of one man.

COSTELLO: David Clinch, live in Atlanta. Thank you.

CLINCH: All right, Carol.

COSTELLO: What would you do to win $50,000? Try riding one of these.

Look at that. It's much harder than you think.

Stay with us for details of the 20th Annual Big Wave International on Oahu's North Shore. And I'm talking 50-foot waves. Incredible.

And take a tour of the White House Christmas decorations with a special guide. Have you seen this? It's hilarious. It's Barney Bush the president is talking to.

But first here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning. (GRAPHIC WITH HEADLINES)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are going to talk about the largest floating thing on the planet, right now.

Chad, do you know what that thing is?

MYERS: That is an iceberg, Carol, off Antarctica.

COSTELLO: It is incredible. And it is threatening the Antarctic Science Station and it is also threatening tens of thousands of baby penguins.

MYERS: Right.

COSTELLO: Those would be the parents.

MYERS: Because they can't get back to where they feed, is what I understand. But we've got a guest that is actually going to straighten that out for us.

COSTELLO: Yes. There is some ice build up caused by this iceberg, it has cut off the penguins access to food.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: And we are going to be joined, right now, as a matter fact, by David Ainley. He's part of a penguin research project in Antarctica.

Good morning, David.

DAVID AINLEY, MARINE BIOLOGIST: Good morning to you. It's actually night time here.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Well, good evening then. We understand.

First of all, tell us about this iceberg, and where it is, and where exactly it is?

AINLEY: This iceberg is about 60 miles long and 20 miles wide. And it afloat in the Southern Ross Sea, which is south of New Zealand, about 2,000 miles.

COSTELLO: And why is it endangering these penguins?

AINLEY: Well, along with calm winds it has inspired to prevent cast ice (ph) from blowing away, cast ice (ph) is a continuous sheet of ice on the sea. And penguins being air-breathing creatures need to have access to open water and you know, they can't forage that far underneath the ice. So they have to walk out to the ice edge, which for penguins, in southern most penguin colony it means a walk of 60 miles. So, it takes them about six days, going and coming. And add that to the fact that they have to recover from fasting for a couple of weeks. It adds a whole lot of time to their trips and their mates desert the next while they're waiting and so...

COSTELLO: Right, so basically what happens is the penguins can't fish in the water for food because of this iceberg. They have to walk this 60 miles and by the time they turn around and walk back they have to leave chicks, behind of course. By the time the penguin parents walk back, they get hungry, they eat the food, which means their baby penguins will probably die of starvation.

The interesting thing about this is you are studying these penguins because of global warming. How are the two connected?

AINLEY: Well, the world has been getting warmer for a long time. Getting warmer more rapidly in the last 50 or so years, and it is causing changes in the climate and in the Antarctic and possibly related to a higher frequency of the halving of these icebergs. It is actually too early to say, if that is the case, you know, if there will be more icebergs.

These icebergs have been halving off (AUDIO GAP) thousand years, as we've been moving from the last ice age. So, down here at the very southern most reach (ph) of the ocean, icebergs are a fact of life.

COSTELLO: Is there any way to save these baby penguins? Are there any efforts being made?

AINLEY: No, there -- not really. There is -- you know, it is these birds they are sort of pushing the envelope so to speak. They are right down here at the, as I said, the very southern-most reach of the ocean. This scenario probably has occurred before. And eventually they overcome it.

The thing they can't really overcome is increased fishing for food in this area and increased whaling. Those are two factors that they have not experienced in the all of the period they've been on the earth.

They can probably overcome these icebergs but they are not going to overcome the over fishing.

COSTELLO: Yes. David Ainley, a penguin -- part of a penguin research project in Antarctica joining DAYBREAK live this morning. Thanks for joining us.

We're going to toss to a quick break, we'll be back. We'll be back with much more, after this.

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COSTELLO: There's a lot going on this morning. This just in to CNN. Britain's highest court has issue an important ruling in the war on terror. The court says the British government cannot detain terror suspects indefinitely, without trial. Sound familiar? For more on the impact of this ruling let's head live to London and CNN's Diana Muriel.

Hello, Diana.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.

Yes, indeed, a the last hour, the nine British law lords, sitting in the House of Lords, made an historic judgment. They were eight to one against the government. They upheld and appeal that was being brought nine prisoners being held in British jails. The majority of them in the Belmarsh (ph) high security prison, in the East of London.

They upheld this appeal, which is an against a section of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act. This was brought in, in the aftermath of the September 11 bombings, in the United States. And it was part of the British response to the war on terror.

The law lords found that it was indeed illegal to indefinitely detain foreign nationals suspected of terrorism, without trial, here Britain. And to add insult to injury they also requested that the British government pay for the appeals process.

They found that it was unjustifiable for the British government to step out side the European Convention on Human Rights and suspend the right to a fair trial, which they did on the 14 of November, 2001, when the British Home Secretary declared a technical state of emergency here in Britain.

They also found that the legislation was discriminatory against foreign nationals and that it was irrational that it should apply just to foreign nationals and not to British citizens.

So, an historic ruling, just in this last hour, from the British law lords, in the House of Lords, Carol.

COSTELLO: Diana Muriel, reporting live from London this morning. Thank you.

We're going to talk about those 50-foot waves in Hawaii. They're just incredible. When we come back we'll have a live guest for you.

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COSTELLO: Oh, for some it may look like a tidal wave but, Chad, for the world's best surfers, the giant waves on Oahu's North Shore are an opportunity to compete.

Can you believe those waves, Chad?

MYERS: You know, I have been to the North Shore, I have been to where that picture is being taken. And the waves were nothing like that, maybe four to six feet. But this is -- oh, my gosh, this is over like a 15-story building at times.

COSTELLO: Isn't that something? One surfer described it as, if you looked at a high-rise building, that's what the wave looks like coming at you. And these people are actually riding those waves in this invitational competition that is only held in such extreme conditions. For more we're joined by Jodi Young, she's a spokeswoman for the competition.

Good morning, Jodi.

JODI YOUNG, SPOKESPERSON, EDDIE AIKAU BIG WAVE INVITATIONAL: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, tell us about the waves.

YOUNG: It really is phenomenal, even for those of us who are fortunate enough to experience this winter after winter in Hawaii. But I tell you it has been a very restless 36 hours. It is almost impossible to sleep. These waves sound like freight trains as they're packing their way into the coastline on the North Shore of Oahu.

And a very -- just a relentless period of about 36 hours of non- stop surf in the range of about 20 to 40 feet. And it is just phenomenal to watch. It's really nature at its most awesome. And to think that someone can just paddle out there under the steam of two arms and launch themselves over what looks to be a cliff. It's just you know beyond the imagination for many of us. And almost beyond the imagination for some of them, as well.

They actually paddle out there having never done it before in waves that big.

COSTELLO: Oh!

MYERS: Wow.

YOUNG: So, you know I think that's a different breed of person we're talking about.

COSTELLO: Boy, you're not kidding. Describe, I mean, are there a lot of people on the beach watching?

YOUNG: You know the one thing that we did have with this last pattern was swell was that it was -- we could see it coming for about five days, definitely. And the talk about it around town really did bring the Island of Oahu close to a standstill yesterday. We had traffic jams that extended almost 30 miles. We had people who just abandoned their vehicles and walked for two hours just to come and see it.

And it is just one lane in each direction to the North Shore. It's a pretty raw set up that we've got down here. Very naturally beautiful, but raw nonetheless. And we really had Waimea Bay at a maximum capacity of around 20,000 plus. It couldn't have handled any more.

COSTELLO: Wow!

YOUNG: It was bursting at the seams. And it was bursting on the ocean, too.

COSTELLO: Well, tell us about the competition itself. Who won and how and how big the wave was that the surfer road, if I'm getting the lingo down.

YOUNG: You're doing too badly, actually. It was the Quicksilver in memory of Eddie Aikau, an event that has been held for 20 years now, in the memory of Eddie Aikau, the North Shore's first lifeguard at Waimea Bay and one of the pioneer big wave riders going way back to the late '60s actually. He actually went missing in 1978 and we've had an event in his honor for 20 years.

So, what we actually saw was a generation of surfers only about one or two of them who actually knew Aikau. One of them his younger brother, yesterday, who is now 51. But the event was won by a 25 year old from the Island of Kuai (ph), by the name of Bruce Irons.

He's the little brother of the world's surfing champion at the moment. And you know, he and his world champion brother said, well, we're going to paddle out, we're just not too sure if we're going to actually take the drop out there. But we wanted to get a close up, anyway.

But they ended up getting out there and I don't know how, but just for getting that nerves (ph) ever existed. And they took off on waves that, easily, 40-feet in height, in the morning. And you know, just hurtling down the face of these waves. Riding them all the way through. And the amazing thing about Waimea Bay is that at it hits the shore it doubles up over itself. And some of the shore breaks that they were surfing right into were about 20 feet as well. Just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of sand.

And really thrilling the crowd. It was an amazing day. It was definitely evolution in the sport of big wave riding and...

COSTELLO: I just, I mean, I'm sure you agree with me, Chad, in that we both wish we could have been there in person to see it.

MYERS: Just to see it. Although walking all the way from the pineapple plantation all the way to the North Shore, would have been a long walk.

Jodi, I have a question for you though. Was anybody hurt? We always hear about people getting injured. Running into each other, because you can't see inside these waves. Was everybody OK after this?

YOUNG: There was just one or two minor scrapes. One surfer actually hit the bottom and that is 40-feet deep.

MYERS: Oh!

YOUNG: So that is a lot of power to take you down that deep. And one other surfer had a bit of a knee twist. Darrel Verosco (ph) from Northern California. But the amazing thing is statistic actually give more serious surfing injuries in waves less than 5 feet.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: Wow! Jodi Young, thank you for joining us live from Hawaii. We appreciate it. Fascinating stuff.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: And we're going to get to your e-mails, by the way, in the next hour of DAYBREAK, which by the way, begins right now.

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