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American Morning
New Bin Laden Tape Surfaces; Details of Chemical Ali's Upcoming Trial Unknown; Police Examining Package for Clues to Serial Killer
Aired December 16, 2004 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Osama bin Laden back on the radar after a one-hour audio recording shows up on the Internet. It may have been made within the last 10 days.
Is the BTK serial killer trying to communicate with police, leaving a trail of evidence from his crimes?
And the Pacific puts on a show in Hawaii as gigantic waves make for a surfer's paradise. It's not cold everywhere on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: We just said it's not cold everywhere. But of course, out here they're selling scarves and mittens and gloves. Because it's great in Hawaii but a little chilly here in New York.
Good morning, everybody. Welcome back. Bill Hemmer not back from Japan yet. Miles, though, is kind enough to fill in for the next couple of days.
Good morning.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: It's good to be here. Thank you very much. Good morning to you.
We'll have a report for you on that reported Osama bin Laden tape. What is on it in just a moment.
Some other stories we're following. In Iraq the first war crimes hearings starting this week with the man known as Chemical Ali leading the pack of those charged. We will talk to a former war crimes prosecutor about the difficulties in proving a case of this level.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning on a much lighter note, the twelve days of Christmas starting up right now. Have you ever given much thought to that partridge in a pear tree?
JACK CAFFERTY, CO-HOST: No.
S. O'BRIEN: OK. Apparently not.
M. O'BRIEN: He's been partridge hunting.
CAFFERTY: The answer is no, I haven't. S. O'BRIEN: Well, you haven't. But CNN's Dan Lothian has more of the story on a very famous grouse. I didn't realize a grouse was a partridge.
CAFFERTY: See the stuff you learn every day. I didn't know what executive stress toys were either in that segment this morning. We're not going to revisit that, however.
The question of the day has to do with these video games. As the market heats up it's a multibillion-dollar business. The games, a lot of them, become increasingly violent and sexually explicit. Now, the governor of Illinois wants to ban the sale of these things to minors.
Good idea or no? AM@CNN.com. We'll read some of your e-mails in a few minutes.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Jack, thanks.
First, thought, let's get to a story we've been following all morning. A new audiotape said to be from Osama bin Laden appearing on Arabic websites. The tape has a reference to the December 6 attack on the U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
We've got two reports this morning. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson joins us from London with more on what's contained in the tape, and David Ensor in Washington with more on the tape's authenticity.
Nic, let's begin with you. Good morning.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
The two sort of headlines here from this new message indicate that Osama bin Laden is able to turn around an audio message more quickly than he has done in the past.
The reference to the attack on the U.S. consulate in Jeddah just ten days ago is an indication, perhaps, that he feels that his security is good and that he's able to get messages out very quickly.
The other thing that really appears in this over an hour-long message is how much he talks about Saudi Arabia. This is really Osama bin Laden returning to his roots, returning to the issue that he began with. That is the overthrow of the Saudi royal family.
He talks about how they have -- they line their pockets with money while the rest of the Saudis are poor. He talks about the violence in Saudi Arabia as being their responsibility, as being part of a global jihad against the United States, because the Saudi authorities are propped up by the United States, he says.
This is vintage Osama bin Laden. But really returning to his roots here, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Nic Robertson for us this morning. Let's get to David Ensor with a little bit more on the authenticity. I'm having a little trouble saying that word this morning.
Any question now that it is Osama bin Laden?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there will be questions at least in the U.S. government until the CIA gives its determination. And there is the usual technical analysis being done of the tape by CIA experts to determine whether they believe that is, indeed, the voice of Osama bin Laden.
They're telling us that, given the poor quality of the recording, that may take just a little longer than usual. It usually takes about a day or so. Although Arabic speakers on our staff who have listened to it do think this is bin Laden.
Now, as Nic noted, the other thing that's being remarked on this morning is how quickly this was turned around. More quickly than usual. And that was done, perhaps, by having an audiotape and by putting it straight onto the Internet.
The price was the quality. This was put onto the Internet in one file. And as people who do this kind of thing know, that reduces the quality of the recording when you put everything on one file and send it around the Internet like that. So a loss of quality but increase of speed.
S. O'BRIEN: Any significance, do you think, to the fact that it was -- it's first appearing on a web site as opposed to a television station?
ENSOR: Well, it's a faster way to get a message from someone who's in hiding to the general public. That is probably the main significance of using the Internet. And we might see more of this in the future. Clearly, bin Laden wants to see and to be topical, involved, in charge, whether or not he really is - Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Of course, David Ensor, thanks. Appreciate it -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get some more headlines now. Kelly Wallace here with that.
Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, ANCHOR: Good morning again, Miles. Good morning, everyone.
Now in the news, where is the most wanted fugitive in Iraq? A top U.S. general says quote, "most likely in Baghdad."
Islamic militant leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was last known to be in Falluja. His group has claimed responsibility for killing U.S. and Iraqi soldiers, and beheading numerous civilian hostages. Twenty-five million dollars, that's the current reward the U.S. is offering for his death or capture.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in the news, meeting this hour with top U.S. officials hoping to shore up White House support to hold onto his job. The secretary-general sitting down with Secretary of State Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, who's been nominated to be Powell's successor.
There have been loud calls from some members of Congress for Annan to resign over the corruption scandal surrounding the U.N. oil- for-food program.
There's word today of a study showing dozens of Food and Drug Administration scientists felt pressure to approve drugs, despite worries about their safety.
The full survey of almost 400 FDA scientists is being released today, according to "The Washington Post." The study appears to back up last month's testimony by FDA safety officer David Graham, who raised serious questions about the agency's safety record.
And in Hawaii, a barrage of huge waves shutting down beaches and blocking shoreline roads with debris. But that's not stopping some of the world's greatest surfers, and you can see them there.
They turned out for a rare competition yesterday, one held only six times in the last 19 years, when waves reached giant proportions. The surf today, cresting in some areas at over 40 feet.
So Soledad, you can bet those surfers will be back in action today.
S. O'BRIEN: No question. All right, Kelly, thanks.
WALLACE: Sure.
S. O'BRIEN: In Iraq, the first of the war crime hearings was set to begin next week. First to stand trial, the former top aide of Saddam Hussein, Hassan al-Majid, also known as Chemical Ali.
Al-Majid is thought to have masterminded the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurds, which killed more than 5,000 people.
Justice Richard Goldstone is the former prosecutor for the U.N.'s international war crimes tribunals in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, joining us this morning.
Nice to see you.
JUSTICE RICHARD GOLDSTONE, FORMER PROSECUTOR, U.N. INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL: Good morning.
S. O'BRIEN: It's a closed investigative hearing. What exactly does that mean? And how does it work?
GOLDSTONE: It hasn't been made clear exactly what this proceeding's going to be. There have been some reports coming out of Baghdad to the effect this is some sort of preliminary investigation. So it's not really clear.
It may well be the beginning of a civil law sort of investigation, where an investigation judge instructs what investigations are to be made. But that's not clear.
What confuses us is that American and British lawyers are being apparently training judges to hold these trials. So what system is going to be applied? Whether it's the common law system that the United States and United Kingdom are familiar with? Or the civil style sort of trial that one has on the European continent.
And before Saddam Hussein's rule, also, in Iraq one doesn't know.
S. O'BRIEN: Are you saying, then, that they might be just kind of making it up as they go along?
GOLDSTONE: Well, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't say that, because I don't know. But they haven't made it clear what sort of proceedings.
There have been complaints that the defendants haven't had access or full access to their lawyers. So there are -- there are serious questions which I think any human rights lawyers would -- would raise about the announcement.
S. O'BRIEN: Do you think that the current Iraqi justice system is properly prepared to deal with this? I mean, if -- maybe the question is, no, obviously, since they're being trained quickly by American and British attorneys.
GOLDSTONE: Well, the other problem for me is that this is -- this is happening so soon before the first democratic elections. There's no legitimate court system in Iraq. It's under occupation, under the coalition occupation. They have no right in international law, indeed under Iraqi law, to set up a new court system, and this would be a new court system.
And I would have thought it would have been wiser to wait for a democratically elected government at the end of January to make decisions about the sort of courts and the sort of trials that are going to be held.
S. O'BRIEN: Might be wiser, but, of course, that might not be the motivation for those who are going ahead with this. I think many people, critics say it's politically motivated. Do you believe that, too?
GOLDSTONE: Right. Well, that seems to be almost inevitable. Why else would an interim government with a caretaker president, be starting the most important trials, I'm sure, in the history of Iraq?
S. O'BRIEN: So then what does that say about the legitimacy? I mea, let's say there is a court, there is a trial, it comes down to a decision. Does that decision have any validity at all, depending on what happens in the election?
GOLDSTONE: Well, I would imagine that it would be open to a democratically elected parliament to, as it were, rectify after the event what is happening now. But that's not a good way to start a democratic system in a new Iraq.
S. O'BRIEN: What would be the impact of the hearings? And I understand that we don't know really much about them. But what could potentially the impact be on Saddam Hussein and the other sort of big names that are coming up?
GOLDSTONE: Well, I think it's going to assist Saddam Hussein to allege, as Milosevic is doing in the Hague right now, that that is a political trial, that it's not a just trial, that it's not a fair trial. It's victor's justice.
And it will be a pity to give a tyrant like Saddam Hussein any -- any solace of that sort.
S. O'BRIEN: What do you think is the biggest challenge in trying, successfully convicting Saddam Hussein?
GOLDSTONE: The biggest challenge is to have a meticulously prepared, exhaustively investigated case, indicating, proving his personal responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq.
S. O'BRIEN: And that's really what they have to do, isn't it?
GOLDSTONE: Well, you know, I just don't know how far the prosecution has gone in doing that. And obviously the next step would be to present that evidence before the trial, to defense counsel, to enable Saddam Hussein and his party, to prepare their defense.
S. O'BRIEN: It's going to be interesting to see what happens. Because as you say, we don't know what's going to happen next week. And it's behind closed doors. So we really might not even know by then.
Thank you. Nice to see you, Justice.
GOLDSTONE: Pleasure.
S. O'BRIEN: Appreciate your time.
Miles, let's get back to you.
M. O'BRIEN: Let's check the weather. Chad Myers they were talking a little bit about a nor'easter coming through over the weekend here. Seems like that's pretty far off. But is that on the horizon?
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Not there. If it's on a ship, it's a problem. You have to shovel a ship? I guess you would, right? Snow blowers on ships?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Careful, careful. S. O'BRIEN: That's what I was thinking, Chad. Thank you.
Still to come this morning we're going to continue checking into that tape that's believed to be from Osama bin Laden. We'll hear from someone who's listened to it end to end.
M. O'BRIEN: Also a serial killer who hadn't been heard from for a quarter century is suddenly back on the scene with new and frightening clues are turning up in Wichita.
S. O'BRIEN: And they say things aren't what they used to be. But you wouldn't expect that to apply to fruits and vegetables. We'll find out why today's crop is not quite as nutritious as 50 years ago. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: In Wichita, Kansas, this morning, the FBI investigating a package that may contain materials linked to the serial killer known as BTK. That's short for bind, torture and kill.
The killer is linked to eight unsolved murders, and has eluded police since the mid '70s. The package found yesterday apparently contains some personal effects of one of nine victims.
Joining us now is Larry Hatteberg, who is an anchor with KAKE-TV in Wichita.
Good to have you with us, Larry.
LARRY HATTEBERG, ANCHOR, KAKE-TV: And good to be here.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us about the package: what was found in it, how it was discovered.
HATTEBERG: Miles, the package was found in a park by a person who was walking through the park about 1 in the morning. He found a package wrapped in plastic, and inside that package when he took it home to look at it, things started to fall out of the package that, as he looked at it, he thought could be related to the BTK case.
And as a matter of fact, it apparently is related to the BTK case. Inside was found a driver's license that's related to one murder that occurred in the 1970s, a young woman who was killed by BTK. Apparently the driver's license inside, to the best of our knowledge, could be that of Nancy Fox. Again, one of the victims.
So police have turned the information over to the FBI. That information is now at the FBI labs being analyzed in Washington.
M. O'BRIEN: And one of the key things here to point out is that apparently Nancy Fox's license was with her at the time of her slaying and was taken from the crime scene as best we know, right?
HATTEBERG: That's right.
M. O'BRIEN: OK. So this...
HATTEBERG: That is correct.
M. O'BRIEN: This case, first of all, have you had a chance to see the contents of it? Were there other things in there that struck you?
HATTEBERG: I have seen the contents on videotape. We have video of the contents of the case. And there is also a chapter list. Now, BTK sent a letter to KAKE-TV. BTK has corresponded with KAKE Television several times since the '70s.
And in a letter sent to us several months ago he outlined a series of chapters, as if you were going to sit down and write the chapters of your life. In this particular package that was received yesterday, many of those same chapters were also in this. So that's an indication that it probably is from BTK, but the FBI wants to make sure.
M. O'BRIEN: Give us a sense of the reaction all throughout Wichita on this. This -- there are many who thought during the hiatus period, the 20-some odd years when no one heard from BTK that he might very well be dead. Clearly that is not the case.
Are people fearful? What are people saying about it?
HATTEBERG: Well, people are concerned. And now, BTK is terrorizing a second generation of Wichitans. As you know, Wichita is here in the Midwest. Things like this simply don't happen in Wichita, Kansas. Serial killers are normally relegated to your city in New York or the West Coast. But here in middle America, it simply doesn't happen.
Yes, people are scared. I wouldn't say that they are terrorized, because we've been living with this story now in Wichita for 30 years. People are concerned, particularly young women, because as you know, BTK has targeted many young women in the past. So young women are particularly frightened.
But BTK, I like to think of him as a master puppeteer, and he is pulling the strings of the media, of the police, and the public. And I think he's sitting back and thoroughly enjoying what he's seeing.
M. O'BRIEN: Larry Hatteberg is with KAKE Television, has been doing that for 41 years now. Congratulations on that. And good job covering this story. Keep us posted, please.
HATTEBERG: Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, analysis of the newest terror tape.
And if you sent any holiday packages by UPS, keep watching. You might see your package among two million that will be sorted today at one single plant. We're going to take you there live for the holiday rush. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: Remember those Jib Jab videos? Well, the creative minds behind them have a new satirical message for the holidays. It pokes a little fun at poor old Saint Nick. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Forgive my lack of cheer but Christmas is almost here. I bust my freaking rump to make all of this junk. 'Cause kids want more and more but I'm falling way behind. It ain't easy making presents for a third of all mankind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Santa Claus, Santa Claus, Christmas makes him hot...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: You can see that on the Web near you.
Jib Jab Media was started by brothers Gregg and Evan Spiridellis. What do you think, am I close?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: They gained national attention for the "This Land is Your Land Thing"...
S. O'BRIEN: It's great.
M. O'BRIEN: ... which was very funny with the candidates. Kind of a different take on that one. The kids will love it.
S. O'BRIEN: "I bust my rump" from Santa? Yes, I can take...
M. O'BRIEN: It's not quite halo level but it's, you know, it's a little racy with Santa.
CAFFERTY: The "This Land is Your Land" thing was much better.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, yes. That's what I was trying to say in a polite way. But you just got right to the point.
CAFFERTY: This is fairly lame actually.
M. O'BRIEN: Lame is the word that I was looking for.
S. O'BRIEN: I thought it was cute.
CAFFERTY: Hmm?
M. O'BRIEN: It's kid fare, Jack.
CAFFERTY: The governor of Illinois -- it was lame -- the governor of Illinois plans to make it illegal for everybody under the age of 18 to buy violent or sexually explicit video games.
Rod Blagojevich is the governor there. He wants the industry to take a little better care of its responsibility. They have a rating system, but there is evidence companies actually are marketing these mature games to kids under the age of 17.
It's a multibillion-dollar industry, and as it's become more competitive, there's more gore, more violence, more sex in these things. Some experts call them now simply murder simulators.
The question is, should it be illegal for minors to buy these things?
Robert in Tacoma, Washington writes, "Absolutely. They can't buy dirty magazines, cigarettes or beer. Why should they be permitted to buy other explicit materials?"
Anthony in Sidney, Nova Scotia, writes, "It makes no difference if minors can't buy this material. They'll find an adult to buy it for them or they'll download it from the Internet."
Jasmine in Ackworth, Georgia, "Yes, it's already illegal in Arkansas, where the parent has to buy the game for the minor if it's rated 'M.' The problem is, a lot of times the parents aren't aware of how graphic, violent and sexually explicit the games really are."
I think that's probably more the problem than anything else. I mean, older people who aren't videogame-philes. I mean, I would have no idea.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, all you have to do is watch the kid playing it. I mean, you don't have to be technically savvy.
CAFFERTY: Well, there is that approach. You could do that.
M. O'BRIEN: That's a thought.
CAFFERTY: And on this -- this growing chorus of whining and complaining, because we don't give anything away on this program, Hal in Oran, Missouri, writes, "Jack, could you find out from that Ian guy where the Providence Union meeting is going to be this weekend? I've been taking your abuse for over a year now, Jack, and like Dave in Japan, I still have nothing to put my coffee in."
Hal...
S. O'BRIEN: Send them mugs, please.
CAFFERTY: No. Why? Have you seen the cheap stuff we give away on this network?
S. O'BRIEN: Clearly, they don't mind the cheap stuff.
CAFFERTY: I mean, that show that precedes us, they give away these nine-cent coffee cups. I mean, I -- you know.
S. O'BRIEN: Apparently, they want the nine-cent coffee cup.
CAFFERTY: I'm not going to lower myself. I mean, if we can't come up with something a little better than these cheesy cheap things that they have.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got your...
M. O'BRIEN: The iPod. Give the iPod away.
S. O'BRIEN: Exactly. Oh, yes.
CAFFERTY: There you go.
S. O'BRIEN: We're not going with the mug. We're waiting for a really good thing.
CAFFERTY: Cafferty file iPods.
M. O'BRIEN: I think it's big. That's big. It's got potential.
S. O'BRIEN: I would sign up for that.
CAFFERTY: Yes?
S. O'BRIEN: You know, thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the famous partridge in a pear tree turns out, in fact, to be a very special bird. Its health is key to the environment, but the partridge now faces a grave danger. We've got that story just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Scott Stewart (ph) in Kadena Air Base, Japan. I want to wish my family in Arkansas happy holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Airman Wabei (ph) from Japan. Just want to wish everybody back home a merry Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Paul Ratchett (ph) from Pennsville (ph), Illinois. Just wanted to wish everybody back home happy holidays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired December 16, 2004 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Osama bin Laden back on the radar after a one-hour audio recording shows up on the Internet. It may have been made within the last 10 days.
Is the BTK serial killer trying to communicate with police, leaving a trail of evidence from his crimes?
And the Pacific puts on a show in Hawaii as gigantic waves make for a surfer's paradise. It's not cold everywhere on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: We just said it's not cold everywhere. But of course, out here they're selling scarves and mittens and gloves. Because it's great in Hawaii but a little chilly here in New York.
Good morning, everybody. Welcome back. Bill Hemmer not back from Japan yet. Miles, though, is kind enough to fill in for the next couple of days.
Good morning.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: It's good to be here. Thank you very much. Good morning to you.
We'll have a report for you on that reported Osama bin Laden tape. What is on it in just a moment.
Some other stories we're following. In Iraq the first war crimes hearings starting this week with the man known as Chemical Ali leading the pack of those charged. We will talk to a former war crimes prosecutor about the difficulties in proving a case of this level.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning on a much lighter note, the twelve days of Christmas starting up right now. Have you ever given much thought to that partridge in a pear tree?
JACK CAFFERTY, CO-HOST: No.
S. O'BRIEN: OK. Apparently not.
M. O'BRIEN: He's been partridge hunting.
CAFFERTY: The answer is no, I haven't. S. O'BRIEN: Well, you haven't. But CNN's Dan Lothian has more of the story on a very famous grouse. I didn't realize a grouse was a partridge.
CAFFERTY: See the stuff you learn every day. I didn't know what executive stress toys were either in that segment this morning. We're not going to revisit that, however.
The question of the day has to do with these video games. As the market heats up it's a multibillion-dollar business. The games, a lot of them, become increasingly violent and sexually explicit. Now, the governor of Illinois wants to ban the sale of these things to minors.
Good idea or no? AM@CNN.com. We'll read some of your e-mails in a few minutes.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Jack, thanks.
First, thought, let's get to a story we've been following all morning. A new audiotape said to be from Osama bin Laden appearing on Arabic websites. The tape has a reference to the December 6 attack on the U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
We've got two reports this morning. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson joins us from London with more on what's contained in the tape, and David Ensor in Washington with more on the tape's authenticity.
Nic, let's begin with you. Good morning.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
The two sort of headlines here from this new message indicate that Osama bin Laden is able to turn around an audio message more quickly than he has done in the past.
The reference to the attack on the U.S. consulate in Jeddah just ten days ago is an indication, perhaps, that he feels that his security is good and that he's able to get messages out very quickly.
The other thing that really appears in this over an hour-long message is how much he talks about Saudi Arabia. This is really Osama bin Laden returning to his roots, returning to the issue that he began with. That is the overthrow of the Saudi royal family.
He talks about how they have -- they line their pockets with money while the rest of the Saudis are poor. He talks about the violence in Saudi Arabia as being their responsibility, as being part of a global jihad against the United States, because the Saudi authorities are propped up by the United States, he says.
This is vintage Osama bin Laden. But really returning to his roots here, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Nic Robertson for us this morning. Let's get to David Ensor with a little bit more on the authenticity. I'm having a little trouble saying that word this morning.
Any question now that it is Osama bin Laden?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there will be questions at least in the U.S. government until the CIA gives its determination. And there is the usual technical analysis being done of the tape by CIA experts to determine whether they believe that is, indeed, the voice of Osama bin Laden.
They're telling us that, given the poor quality of the recording, that may take just a little longer than usual. It usually takes about a day or so. Although Arabic speakers on our staff who have listened to it do think this is bin Laden.
Now, as Nic noted, the other thing that's being remarked on this morning is how quickly this was turned around. More quickly than usual. And that was done, perhaps, by having an audiotape and by putting it straight onto the Internet.
The price was the quality. This was put onto the Internet in one file. And as people who do this kind of thing know, that reduces the quality of the recording when you put everything on one file and send it around the Internet like that. So a loss of quality but increase of speed.
S. O'BRIEN: Any significance, do you think, to the fact that it was -- it's first appearing on a web site as opposed to a television station?
ENSOR: Well, it's a faster way to get a message from someone who's in hiding to the general public. That is probably the main significance of using the Internet. And we might see more of this in the future. Clearly, bin Laden wants to see and to be topical, involved, in charge, whether or not he really is - Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Of course, David Ensor, thanks. Appreciate it -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get some more headlines now. Kelly Wallace here with that.
Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, ANCHOR: Good morning again, Miles. Good morning, everyone.
Now in the news, where is the most wanted fugitive in Iraq? A top U.S. general says quote, "most likely in Baghdad."
Islamic militant leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was last known to be in Falluja. His group has claimed responsibility for killing U.S. and Iraqi soldiers, and beheading numerous civilian hostages. Twenty-five million dollars, that's the current reward the U.S. is offering for his death or capture.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in the news, meeting this hour with top U.S. officials hoping to shore up White House support to hold onto his job. The secretary-general sitting down with Secretary of State Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, who's been nominated to be Powell's successor.
There have been loud calls from some members of Congress for Annan to resign over the corruption scandal surrounding the U.N. oil- for-food program.
There's word today of a study showing dozens of Food and Drug Administration scientists felt pressure to approve drugs, despite worries about their safety.
The full survey of almost 400 FDA scientists is being released today, according to "The Washington Post." The study appears to back up last month's testimony by FDA safety officer David Graham, who raised serious questions about the agency's safety record.
And in Hawaii, a barrage of huge waves shutting down beaches and blocking shoreline roads with debris. But that's not stopping some of the world's greatest surfers, and you can see them there.
They turned out for a rare competition yesterday, one held only six times in the last 19 years, when waves reached giant proportions. The surf today, cresting in some areas at over 40 feet.
So Soledad, you can bet those surfers will be back in action today.
S. O'BRIEN: No question. All right, Kelly, thanks.
WALLACE: Sure.
S. O'BRIEN: In Iraq, the first of the war crime hearings was set to begin next week. First to stand trial, the former top aide of Saddam Hussein, Hassan al-Majid, also known as Chemical Ali.
Al-Majid is thought to have masterminded the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurds, which killed more than 5,000 people.
Justice Richard Goldstone is the former prosecutor for the U.N.'s international war crimes tribunals in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, joining us this morning.
Nice to see you.
JUSTICE RICHARD GOLDSTONE, FORMER PROSECUTOR, U.N. INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL: Good morning.
S. O'BRIEN: It's a closed investigative hearing. What exactly does that mean? And how does it work?
GOLDSTONE: It hasn't been made clear exactly what this proceeding's going to be. There have been some reports coming out of Baghdad to the effect this is some sort of preliminary investigation. So it's not really clear.
It may well be the beginning of a civil law sort of investigation, where an investigation judge instructs what investigations are to be made. But that's not clear.
What confuses us is that American and British lawyers are being apparently training judges to hold these trials. So what system is going to be applied? Whether it's the common law system that the United States and United Kingdom are familiar with? Or the civil style sort of trial that one has on the European continent.
And before Saddam Hussein's rule, also, in Iraq one doesn't know.
S. O'BRIEN: Are you saying, then, that they might be just kind of making it up as they go along?
GOLDSTONE: Well, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't say that, because I don't know. But they haven't made it clear what sort of proceedings.
There have been complaints that the defendants haven't had access or full access to their lawyers. So there are -- there are serious questions which I think any human rights lawyers would -- would raise about the announcement.
S. O'BRIEN: Do you think that the current Iraqi justice system is properly prepared to deal with this? I mean, if -- maybe the question is, no, obviously, since they're being trained quickly by American and British attorneys.
GOLDSTONE: Well, the other problem for me is that this is -- this is happening so soon before the first democratic elections. There's no legitimate court system in Iraq. It's under occupation, under the coalition occupation. They have no right in international law, indeed under Iraqi law, to set up a new court system, and this would be a new court system.
And I would have thought it would have been wiser to wait for a democratically elected government at the end of January to make decisions about the sort of courts and the sort of trials that are going to be held.
S. O'BRIEN: Might be wiser, but, of course, that might not be the motivation for those who are going ahead with this. I think many people, critics say it's politically motivated. Do you believe that, too?
GOLDSTONE: Right. Well, that seems to be almost inevitable. Why else would an interim government with a caretaker president, be starting the most important trials, I'm sure, in the history of Iraq?
S. O'BRIEN: So then what does that say about the legitimacy? I mea, let's say there is a court, there is a trial, it comes down to a decision. Does that decision have any validity at all, depending on what happens in the election?
GOLDSTONE: Well, I would imagine that it would be open to a democratically elected parliament to, as it were, rectify after the event what is happening now. But that's not a good way to start a democratic system in a new Iraq.
S. O'BRIEN: What would be the impact of the hearings? And I understand that we don't know really much about them. But what could potentially the impact be on Saddam Hussein and the other sort of big names that are coming up?
GOLDSTONE: Well, I think it's going to assist Saddam Hussein to allege, as Milosevic is doing in the Hague right now, that that is a political trial, that it's not a just trial, that it's not a fair trial. It's victor's justice.
And it will be a pity to give a tyrant like Saddam Hussein any -- any solace of that sort.
S. O'BRIEN: What do you think is the biggest challenge in trying, successfully convicting Saddam Hussein?
GOLDSTONE: The biggest challenge is to have a meticulously prepared, exhaustively investigated case, indicating, proving his personal responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq.
S. O'BRIEN: And that's really what they have to do, isn't it?
GOLDSTONE: Well, you know, I just don't know how far the prosecution has gone in doing that. And obviously the next step would be to present that evidence before the trial, to defense counsel, to enable Saddam Hussein and his party, to prepare their defense.
S. O'BRIEN: It's going to be interesting to see what happens. Because as you say, we don't know what's going to happen next week. And it's behind closed doors. So we really might not even know by then.
Thank you. Nice to see you, Justice.
GOLDSTONE: Pleasure.
S. O'BRIEN: Appreciate your time.
Miles, let's get back to you.
M. O'BRIEN: Let's check the weather. Chad Myers they were talking a little bit about a nor'easter coming through over the weekend here. Seems like that's pretty far off. But is that on the horizon?
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Not there. If it's on a ship, it's a problem. You have to shovel a ship? I guess you would, right? Snow blowers on ships?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Careful, careful. S. O'BRIEN: That's what I was thinking, Chad. Thank you.
Still to come this morning we're going to continue checking into that tape that's believed to be from Osama bin Laden. We'll hear from someone who's listened to it end to end.
M. O'BRIEN: Also a serial killer who hadn't been heard from for a quarter century is suddenly back on the scene with new and frightening clues are turning up in Wichita.
S. O'BRIEN: And they say things aren't what they used to be. But you wouldn't expect that to apply to fruits and vegetables. We'll find out why today's crop is not quite as nutritious as 50 years ago. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: In Wichita, Kansas, this morning, the FBI investigating a package that may contain materials linked to the serial killer known as BTK. That's short for bind, torture and kill.
The killer is linked to eight unsolved murders, and has eluded police since the mid '70s. The package found yesterday apparently contains some personal effects of one of nine victims.
Joining us now is Larry Hatteberg, who is an anchor with KAKE-TV in Wichita.
Good to have you with us, Larry.
LARRY HATTEBERG, ANCHOR, KAKE-TV: And good to be here.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us about the package: what was found in it, how it was discovered.
HATTEBERG: Miles, the package was found in a park by a person who was walking through the park about 1 in the morning. He found a package wrapped in plastic, and inside that package when he took it home to look at it, things started to fall out of the package that, as he looked at it, he thought could be related to the BTK case.
And as a matter of fact, it apparently is related to the BTK case. Inside was found a driver's license that's related to one murder that occurred in the 1970s, a young woman who was killed by BTK. Apparently the driver's license inside, to the best of our knowledge, could be that of Nancy Fox. Again, one of the victims.
So police have turned the information over to the FBI. That information is now at the FBI labs being analyzed in Washington.
M. O'BRIEN: And one of the key things here to point out is that apparently Nancy Fox's license was with her at the time of her slaying and was taken from the crime scene as best we know, right?
HATTEBERG: That's right.
M. O'BRIEN: OK. So this...
HATTEBERG: That is correct.
M. O'BRIEN: This case, first of all, have you had a chance to see the contents of it? Were there other things in there that struck you?
HATTEBERG: I have seen the contents on videotape. We have video of the contents of the case. And there is also a chapter list. Now, BTK sent a letter to KAKE-TV. BTK has corresponded with KAKE Television several times since the '70s.
And in a letter sent to us several months ago he outlined a series of chapters, as if you were going to sit down and write the chapters of your life. In this particular package that was received yesterday, many of those same chapters were also in this. So that's an indication that it probably is from BTK, but the FBI wants to make sure.
M. O'BRIEN: Give us a sense of the reaction all throughout Wichita on this. This -- there are many who thought during the hiatus period, the 20-some odd years when no one heard from BTK that he might very well be dead. Clearly that is not the case.
Are people fearful? What are people saying about it?
HATTEBERG: Well, people are concerned. And now, BTK is terrorizing a second generation of Wichitans. As you know, Wichita is here in the Midwest. Things like this simply don't happen in Wichita, Kansas. Serial killers are normally relegated to your city in New York or the West Coast. But here in middle America, it simply doesn't happen.
Yes, people are scared. I wouldn't say that they are terrorized, because we've been living with this story now in Wichita for 30 years. People are concerned, particularly young women, because as you know, BTK has targeted many young women in the past. So young women are particularly frightened.
But BTK, I like to think of him as a master puppeteer, and he is pulling the strings of the media, of the police, and the public. And I think he's sitting back and thoroughly enjoying what he's seeing.
M. O'BRIEN: Larry Hatteberg is with KAKE Television, has been doing that for 41 years now. Congratulations on that. And good job covering this story. Keep us posted, please.
HATTEBERG: Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, analysis of the newest terror tape.
And if you sent any holiday packages by UPS, keep watching. You might see your package among two million that will be sorted today at one single plant. We're going to take you there live for the holiday rush. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: Remember those Jib Jab videos? Well, the creative minds behind them have a new satirical message for the holidays. It pokes a little fun at poor old Saint Nick. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Forgive my lack of cheer but Christmas is almost here. I bust my freaking rump to make all of this junk. 'Cause kids want more and more but I'm falling way behind. It ain't easy making presents for a third of all mankind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Santa Claus, Santa Claus, Christmas makes him hot...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: You can see that on the Web near you.
Jib Jab Media was started by brothers Gregg and Evan Spiridellis. What do you think, am I close?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: They gained national attention for the "This Land is Your Land Thing"...
S. O'BRIEN: It's great.
M. O'BRIEN: ... which was very funny with the candidates. Kind of a different take on that one. The kids will love it.
S. O'BRIEN: "I bust my rump" from Santa? Yes, I can take...
M. O'BRIEN: It's not quite halo level but it's, you know, it's a little racy with Santa.
CAFFERTY: The "This Land is Your Land" thing was much better.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, yes. That's what I was trying to say in a polite way. But you just got right to the point.
CAFFERTY: This is fairly lame actually.
M. O'BRIEN: Lame is the word that I was looking for.
S. O'BRIEN: I thought it was cute.
CAFFERTY: Hmm?
M. O'BRIEN: It's kid fare, Jack.
CAFFERTY: The governor of Illinois -- it was lame -- the governor of Illinois plans to make it illegal for everybody under the age of 18 to buy violent or sexually explicit video games.
Rod Blagojevich is the governor there. He wants the industry to take a little better care of its responsibility. They have a rating system, but there is evidence companies actually are marketing these mature games to kids under the age of 17.
It's a multibillion-dollar industry, and as it's become more competitive, there's more gore, more violence, more sex in these things. Some experts call them now simply murder simulators.
The question is, should it be illegal for minors to buy these things?
Robert in Tacoma, Washington writes, "Absolutely. They can't buy dirty magazines, cigarettes or beer. Why should they be permitted to buy other explicit materials?"
Anthony in Sidney, Nova Scotia, writes, "It makes no difference if minors can't buy this material. They'll find an adult to buy it for them or they'll download it from the Internet."
Jasmine in Ackworth, Georgia, "Yes, it's already illegal in Arkansas, where the parent has to buy the game for the minor if it's rated 'M.' The problem is, a lot of times the parents aren't aware of how graphic, violent and sexually explicit the games really are."
I think that's probably more the problem than anything else. I mean, older people who aren't videogame-philes. I mean, I would have no idea.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, all you have to do is watch the kid playing it. I mean, you don't have to be technically savvy.
CAFFERTY: Well, there is that approach. You could do that.
M. O'BRIEN: That's a thought.
CAFFERTY: And on this -- this growing chorus of whining and complaining, because we don't give anything away on this program, Hal in Oran, Missouri, writes, "Jack, could you find out from that Ian guy where the Providence Union meeting is going to be this weekend? I've been taking your abuse for over a year now, Jack, and like Dave in Japan, I still have nothing to put my coffee in."
Hal...
S. O'BRIEN: Send them mugs, please.
CAFFERTY: No. Why? Have you seen the cheap stuff we give away on this network?
S. O'BRIEN: Clearly, they don't mind the cheap stuff.
CAFFERTY: I mean, that show that precedes us, they give away these nine-cent coffee cups. I mean, I -- you know.
S. O'BRIEN: Apparently, they want the nine-cent coffee cup.
CAFFERTY: I'm not going to lower myself. I mean, if we can't come up with something a little better than these cheesy cheap things that they have.
S. O'BRIEN: You've got your...
M. O'BRIEN: The iPod. Give the iPod away.
S. O'BRIEN: Exactly. Oh, yes.
CAFFERTY: There you go.
S. O'BRIEN: We're not going with the mug. We're waiting for a really good thing.
CAFFERTY: Cafferty file iPods.
M. O'BRIEN: I think it's big. That's big. It's got potential.
S. O'BRIEN: I would sign up for that.
CAFFERTY: Yes?
S. O'BRIEN: You know, thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the famous partridge in a pear tree turns out, in fact, to be a very special bird. Its health is key to the environment, but the partridge now faces a grave danger. We've got that story just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Scott Stewart (ph) in Kadena Air Base, Japan. I want to wish my family in Arkansas happy holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Airman Wabei (ph) from Japan. Just want to wish everybody back home a merry Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Paul Ratchett (ph) from Pennsville (ph), Illinois. Just wanted to wish everybody back home happy holidays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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