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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Rumsfeld Makes Surprise Visit to Troops; Powell Advised More Troops in Iraq; Despite Losing Eye, Marine Hopes to Return to Fighting

Aired December 24, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a massive bomb explosion in Baghdad as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld makes a surprise visit to American troops in Iraq.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: You are on the side of freedom, and that's the side to be on.

PILGRIM: Is it back to the USSR? President Vladimir Putin uses the language of the Cold War as he questions U.S. policy toward Russia. Ian Bremer, president of Eurasia Group, is my guest.

And the national commander of the Salvation Army says he's overwhelmed by the public support after Target banned Salvation Army bell ringers from its stores. I'll be talking with Salvation Army's commissioner W. Todd Bassett.

And rallying around our troops this holiday season. National Guard soldiers here offer a helping hand to comrades overseas facing financial problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we do it with a lot of pride, and we do it because we care about those families.

PILGRIM: Tonight our special report, "Holiday Homefront."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, December 24. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, who is on vacation, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening.

Tonight a suicide bomber kills eight people in Baghdad. The blast came just hours after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld left. He was there on a surprise Christmas visit to the troops.

The suicide bomber exploded a fuel tanker truck in Baghdad's embassy district.

Secretary Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq began in the northern city of Mosul, and that's where a suicide bomber killed 22 people earlier this week. Eighteen Americans were among the dead. Karl Penhaul reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was still an hour until dawn when he touched down in Mosul.

RUMSFELD: Wow, what a crowd.

PENHAUL: A morale booster for troops still reeling from Tuesday's lethal suicide bombing and recognition for the wounded.

RUMSFELD: When you see an attack like we saw here so recently, we think it's tough and difficult. And one has to ask the question, what's going to happen here in this country of Iraq?

PENHAUL: While Tuesday's attack was further evidence Iraq's insurgency is growing, Rumsfeld said he believed the war was winnable, even if others didn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we win the war in the media? That seems like that is the place where we're getting beat up more than anywhere else.

PENHAUL: Rumsfeld knows the feeling, though his Christmas Eve trip to Iraq's top trouble spots may counter recent criticism of him for not personally signing letters of condolence to bereaved families and brushing off a soldier's worries about armored trucks.

RUMSFELD: Thanks for what you're doing; appreciate it.

PENHAUL: More smiles and handshakes in Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's birth place.

RUMSFELD: You are on the side of freedom, and that's the side to be on.

PENHAUL: And a warning even the U.S. war machine has weak spots.

RUMSFELD: Terrorists can attack at any time, any place using any technique.

PENHAUL: U.S. troop numbers now stand at 151,000, record levels to safeguard scheduled January elections.

RUMSFELD: The elections don't have to be delayed. The elections can go forward.

PENHAUL: That's part of the longer term U.S. exit strategy that also hinges on getting Iraqi forces to fight for themselves.

RUMSFELD: The task is to help to organize and train and equip Iraqis so that they can provide for their own security.

Merry Christmas to you. PENHAUL: In Falluja, scene last month of one of the biggest Marine offensives since Vietnam, one of the troops shared some of the spoils of war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, this is for you, sir. I don't know if you smoke or not. But you can take that back to Washington, D.C., sir. That came out of Saddam Hussein's stash and this came off of an insurgent in Falluja. He's not going to be smoking anymore for a while.

RUMSFELD: I love it.

PENHAUL: And as Rumsfeld wished the troops happy holidays, some were probably wondering, just as they were last year, how many more Christmases will U.S. troops be stationed in Iraq?

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Well, as Karl Penhaul reported Rumsfeld today blasted the media's coverage of the war in Iraq. And the issue came up during one of Rumsfeld's question and answer sessions with the troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we win the war in the media? It seems like that is the place where we're getting beat up more than anybody else. I've been here -- this is my third tour over here, and we've done some amazing things. And it seems like the enemy's web sites and everything else are all over the media, and they are -- they love it.

But the thing is, everything we do good, no matter if it's helping a little kid or building a new school, the public affairs sends out the message, but the media doesn't pick up on it. How do we win the propaganda war?

RUMSFELD: Does not sound like a question that was planted by the press.

You don't hear about the schools are open and the hospitals are open and the clinics are open and the fact that the stock market is open and the Iraqi currency is steady and the fact that there have been something like 140,000 refugees coming from other countries back into this country. They are voting with their feet, because they believe this is a country of the future.

You don't read about that. You read about every single negative thing that anyone can find to report.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is the president's top adviser on military affairs, of course. But last month, Secretary of State Colin Powell joined the intensifying debate about the number of troops in Iraq.

White House correspondent Dana Bash reports on that.

And Dana, before we get to the Powell story, the president made some pretty important phone calls today, didn't he?

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kitty. That's right. The president followed the tradition for commanders in chief around the holidays, and that is to make some phone calls to men and women serving in the military around the world during the holiday time to say hello and thank you for your service and of course, happy holidays.

We're told that he president made 10 phone calls today, six of them to those serving in Iraq. And he did so, of course, from Camp David, where he's spending the Christmas holiday.

Now troop levels in Iraq, of course, as you mentioned, have been a controversial issue. Very much so on the campaign trail during the campaign and still certainly are.

And you mentioned that a "Washington Post" story today ran, saying that Colin Powell, the secretary of state, during a time when the prime minister of Great Britain was visiting Mr. Bush, just 10 days after the election, joined the two men in a meeting. And there the story is that he advised it's important to get more troops on the ground in Iraq to control the insurgency.

Well, a State Department official, a senior official, tells CNN that the secretary was asked, as he frequently is, by the president for his opinion during that meeting. Of course, Secretary of State Powell was the chairman of the joint chiefs and has some expertise in this area.

And that the secretary said that it's important to get more troops on the ground to, quote, "dominate the terrain." That's according to a senior official.

But the official also stressed that it was not an action-taking meeting and that Powell also said that it's important to get the Iraqi troop level up. And that, of course, has been something that has been a White House strategy for some time now.

But what is interesting about this and the White House is certainly mum about details of this, is that the president and Prime Minister Blair were talking about the concerns about the insurgency for some time, certainly a month ago, Kitty.

But the president has not made those concerns publicly and concerns about the fact that the Iraqi army is not up and running as much as the U.S. wants it to be until this week.

So certainly we're following this story more, but the White House at this point is mum about the specifics of the story, except to say the president always listens to his commanders on the ground, always seeks advice from his cabinet and that's about it -- Kitty. PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Dana Bash. Thanks, Dana.

We've reported extensively here on the inspirational stories of some of the troops who have been wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one of those heroes is Marine Gunnery Sergeant Nick Popaditch. He nearly lost his life in a battle in Falluja.

Casey Wian reports from 29 Palms, California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gunnery Nick Popaditch is doing what he loves best, showing off an M1-A1 battle tank, the kind he's commanded through two Gulf Wars.

GUNNERY SGT. NICK POPADITCH, U.S. MARINE CORPS: There's no weapons system in Iraq currently employed by the anticoalition forces that can take this thing off the battlefield.

WIAN: Popaditch rolled into Baghdad's Fidol (ph) Square on a tank he named Carnivore. He and his fellow Marines helped the Iraqis take down the now infamous statue of Saddam Hussein.

POPADITCH: We really felt at that time we were seeing these people liberated, these people were being freed. And they certainly were reacting that way. And it was just -- it was just an incredible moment to be part of.

WIAN: Popaditch completed the deployment and came home but just a few months later volunteered to go back with another unit.

POPADITCH: I'm a Marine. If Marines are off fighting somewhere, I don't want to be home watching on TV. I want to be there. I want to be with them and be part of it.

WIAN: This time he found himself in Falluja in a tough firefight with insurgents. A rocket-propelled grenade almost cost him his life.

POPADITCH: The other one came from straight down above me. It hit me right on top of the head, right about here.

WIAN: The explosion took out Popaditch's right eye and left him partially blind in his left eye and deaf.

POPADITCH: There is -- there's like a cap in there. I don't know if this is gross or not. It's not gross to me or anybody, but there's just a -- there's just a cap in there.

WIAN: Popaditch can't read but says his sight gets better every day. He can't hear with one ear and hopes a hearing aid will help the other. In spite of the ordeal, he feels lucky.

POPADITCH: It never struck me as a tragedy or anything like that, because you've got -- I'm perfectly fine from the neck down. I'm perfectly healthy.

WIAN: While he recovers, Popaditch hangs out with fellow Marines in the tank maintenance yard, anxious to get back to work.

POPADITCH: I'd go back in a minute. As soon as I can see again, that's my plan.

WIAN: And he hopes his 15-year military career will continue.

Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: What a remarkable man. Now Sergeant Popaditch is making a good recovery. Still in the Marine Corps and still stationed in the 29 Palms. We wish him and his family and his fellow Marines a very merry Christmas.

We'll have more on our brave troops a little bit later in the show. We'll have the brave story of a soldier who has left his family behind this Christmas to serve his country in Iraq.

And our border with Mexico wide open to illegal aliens. So why isn't our government taking border security seriously? We'll have a special report on that.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Three million illegal aliens will enter this country this year. But the federal government has completed only a part of a fence along just a tiny portion of a border with Mexico. Now plans for that fence were approved eight years ago.

Peter Viles reports from the Tijuana River Valley along the Mexican border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The old fence, 14 miles of salvaged metal, was a stopgap measure to block the favorite path of Mexican drug smugglers and illegal aliens, and it worked. Illegal traffic dropped dramatically.

But then powerful Congressman Duncan Hunter convinced the Clinton administration to build a real barrier, a second fence that cannot be cut or climbed. That was eight years ago.

The original fence falling apart in places and still four miles of that secondary fence have not been built.

GARY BECKS, AIDE TO U.S. REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER: It's taken more time to build this 14 miles of fence than it did to win World War II. VILES: The stick pointing point: environmental laws, endangered species of plants and birds, even claims the fence would disrupt Indian artifacts, such as these seashell fragments.

BECKS: Seashells laying in the dirt. Give me a break.

VILES (on camera): The fence debate comes down to this: Could Homeland Security simply fix this 10-year-old steel fence, or does it need to fill in some of these canyons to build 150-foot corridor with a patrol road along the border and a second fence inside the border?

(voice-over): The government believes that corridor is crucial, making the border easier to patrol and discouraging people like these guys from making a run for it.

The House voted this fall to temporarily waive all environmental laws to finish the second fence, but the Senate wouldn't go along, and environmentalists are digging in, saying this small corner of coastal mesas and canyons must be preserved.

GREG ABBOTT, CALIFORNIA PARKS & RECREATION: To have a little mesa this distance from the ocean with this sandy bay point soil is extremely rare. There's a whole little plant community to the West here that you won't find anywhere else in the United States.

VILES: There's also a border crisis here that effects every person in the United States.

Peter Viles, CNN, in the Tijuana River Valley, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Still ahead here tonight, a holiday concert that's also helping the families of American troops serving in Iraq. Our special report is next.

And then, Russian president Vladimir Putin signals a growing divide between the Kremlin and the United States. Russian expert Ian Bremmer is my guest.

And we go to our break here and we have live pictures of midnight mass going on right now at the Vatican. Pope John Paul II is presiding over the mass tonight, which is being broadcast to a record 73 countries.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Tonight, our special report "Holiday Homefront" on the many people helping to support American troops stationed overseas. A unique tribute from the Delaware Army National Guard has been helping military families in need for years.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Newark, Delaware.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For David Thorngate, it's the little things that matter, spending time with his wife and children. For 14 months, the Army National Guardsman was separated from them.

SGT. DAVID THORNGATE, 340TH ENGINEER DETACHMENT: The possibility was there all the time that you weren't coming back. But, you know, you do everything you can to protect yourself and everybody else around you and you look out for each other.

SYLVESTER: While he was holding off the enemy in Iraq, his wife was holding down the fort at their Delaware home, caring for their three children. But, while he was away, the family suffered a near tragedy. Bernadette Thorngate broke a vertebrae in her neck.

BERNADETTE THORNGATE, HUSBAND IN IRAQ: I lost control of the car, and the car spun around and then hit an embankment on the other side.

SYLVESTER: And if that was not enough, David's cabinet-making business was on the verge of collapsing. The money had stopped flowing in, and his military pay did not come close to covering all of the family's expenses.

(on camera): While David was away, his woodworking business suffered. He lost about 75 percent of his sales and feared his business would go under, until he got some outside help.

(voice-over): Help came in the form of music. The Delaware Army National Guard Band raises emergency relief money for families of deployed soldiers facing hardship. The fund paid for a nanny to help look after the children while his wife recovered and gave David a small business loan to get back on his feet.

SGT. MAJOR JAMES SNYDER, 287TH ARMY NATIONAL GUARD BAND: It's the very least that we can do, and it's something that we do and we do with a lot of pride, and we do it because we care about those families.

SYLVESTER: So far, the relief fund has collected more than $150,000 in donations from corporations, individuals and schools. David Thorngate says he could have lost his house if it weren't for the help.

Now he's celebrating Christmas in his home, a far cry from last year when he spent it miles away in Iraq.

Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Newark, Delaware.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Still ahead tonight, this holiday season is anything but warm between the United States and Russia. Russian expert and Eurasia Group President Ian Bremmer joins me next. And then, the stories of two American soldiers fighting in Iraq, one of them arriving home for a two-week rest with the family, the other returning to battle. Their inspiring stories are next.

And a familiar sight outside Target stores is no more. How The Salvation Army is reacting to the retailer's new ban on its red kettles. Its commissioner, W. Todd Bassett, will join us.

That and a great deal more still ahead here tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: In a moment, new tension between the United States and Russia. Russian expert Ian Bremmer of Eurasia Group will join me.

But, first, a look at some of the top stories.

Holiday travelers are running into icy roads and congestion throughout the snow-covered Ohio Valley. Indiana state police are urging drivers to avoid Interstate 65 between Indianapolis and Louisville, Kentucky. I-64 is also slow going in Indiana and Illinois.

Orbiting Saturn, the Cassini spacecraft is set to release a probe that will travel to one of the planet's moons, Titan. Now the probe is expected to land on Saturn's largest moon next month.

And the Ukrainian presidential candidates are campaigning for a final day ahead of the repeat election on Sunday. Ukraine's Supreme Court threw out earlier results on evidence of massive fraud. Twelve thousand international monitors are in the Ukraine for the vote.

Well, President Vladimir Putin this week said he wants to know if the United States is trying to isolate Russia. Putin's comments reflect rising tensions between the United States and Russia over Ukraine and other issues.

Earlier, I talked with Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group and a leading expert on Russia, and I began by asking him for his assessment of Putin's latest comments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IAN BREMMER, EURASIA GROUP: I think we have seen the peak of the U.S.-Russia strategic relationship. There's no question that the words that have come out of the White House over the past week expressing concern about the consolidation of power in Russia, coming on the heels of the great difference of opinion on Ukraine and the upcoming elections going on over this weekend, have shown a rift between the two countries, so much so that Bush was pretty quick about organizing a summit between the two leaders in Bradislav coming up in February, but...

PILGRIM: What do you expect from that?

BREMMER: Well, it's going to be a tough meeting in the sense that certainly the United States gets more and better counterterrorist information from the Russians than probably any country in the world with the exception of Israel. That's recognized and appreciated by the Bush administration, and that cooperation will still be there. But there's been cooperation on the security front with France and Germany. It hasn't stopped relationships being difficult.

There are a lot of real issues here. The U.S. is not just asking for clarification about what Mr. Putin has done with Yukos, the big oil company, for example. It hasn't asked for clarification about Ukraine. It's expressed concern. His spokesman expressed concern.

To the extent that Putin is now asking, well, is the U.S. trying to isolate us, that's probably a little too hard. But we're not seeing the kind of cooperation beyond security, the strategic partnership looking at things like an energy relationship between the two countries, the NATO-Russia partnership that everyone was talking about a year ago. That's going nowhere.

PILGRIM: Many people are suggesting that Russia is going backwards a bit in terms of their democratic freedoms, the business environment is being questioned because of the Yukos problems, and how do you assess the sort of state of democracy? Freedom House has backpedaled on their freedom index for Russia. How do you assess the state of democracy, and is it something that we should be worried about?

BREMMER: Well, Freedom House called Russia not free after Russia went into -- in part, because of their -- relations with Ukraine, and that's a little bit like saying France is unfree because of their engagement in the Cote d'Ivoire, the United States after Iraq. So we have recognize that western liberal democracy and our ideas of what we want to see in Russia are a little bit different than the way it looks inside Moscow itself.

But there's no question that if you look at Russian treatment of the press, if you look at treatment of the governors, which aren't going to be directly elected anymore, if you look at the judiciary which is going to be more directly controlled by the Kremlin, we're talking about a country which is not on an East European trajectory towards joining the West -- the community in the West of nations. That we're not seeing.

PILGRIM: The Ukraine raised a lot of alarm because Vladimir Putin was so active in that campaign, and then the poisoning allegations that came afterwards had many people suggesting that Russia played a role in that. How do you assess the situation in Ukraine and Russia's role in it?

BREMMER: Russia clearly intends to have continued influence over Ukraine, and Ukraine is a pretty divided state. There are still a majority of the people in the Southeast of Ukraine in Crimea that would support a much closer relationship with Russia than Kiev and the West of Ukraine. What that means is -- let's say that Mr. Yushchenko, the opposition leader, the orange revolution, actually wins on the 26th, and I think that's a pretty safe bet at this point...

PILGRIM: Which is this coming weekend, the Ukrainian election.

BREMMER: Which is on the 26th.

PILGRIM: Yes.

BREMMER: Let's assume that he wins. The relationship between Russia and Ukraine is still going to be difficult.

The ability for Yushchenko to run his country as a unified state is going to be hard because the industrial base of that country doesn't actually support a sudden move towards the United States and toward the European Union.

So there's no question Russia's still going to have influence, and I think that in a sense, the elections are only the beginning of Ukraine's problems in terms of governance on the ground.

PILGRIM: But is this Russian meddling something that the United States should be worried about? Does it portend that Russia will continue to meddle in other country's affairs?

BREMMER: You might remember that President Bush senior once made a speech after he was in Kiev, the so-called Chicken Kiev speech, where he said it's to move toward independence, but not too much. That was when Ukraine was trying to get away from the former Soviet Union.

Very interesting. The person that actually wrote that speech, Condi Rice, senior director of the National Security Council in charge of Europe and Eurasia at the time. Have some independence, but recognize that Ukraine is also part of the Russian bloc and much more influenced from Russia than the United States.

Mr. Yushchenko would do well to remember Condi's role when he's thinking about how to lead post-elections Ukraine in the next couple of months. ' PILGRIM: Thank you for your analysis today.

Dr. Ian Bremmer.

Thank you.

BREMMER: Merry Christmas.

PILGRIM: Merry Christmas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Another remarkable story of Sergeant Robert Morris, and, tonight, he is in Iraq on a dangerous detail far from home. Now Morris was able to celebrate Christmas early with his family in Georgia.

And CNN's Thelma Gutierrez joined him for that occasion as well as for his return to duty, and this is one soldier's story and a story you'll only see on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sergeant Robert Morris has seen the reality of war.

For four months, he's had one of the riskiest jobs in Iraq, commanding a gun truck and fighting off attacks on convoys traveling the world's most dangerous roads.

He's seen a lot, but he doesn't like to talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Mary, Mary had a baby boy in Bethlehem...

GUTIERREZ: Canton, Georgia, is far from all of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Mary, Mary had a baby boy, heavenly angels shout for joy...

GUTIERREZ: And so is this family celebration.

SGT. ROBERT MORRIS, U.S. ARMY: You feel real good, because I know I'm leaving tomorrow, and I'm not going to spend Christmas Day with them, so this is the Morris family's Christmas is today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, Daddy!

GUTIERREZ: The Morrises invited us to share their last night together before this father of five heads back to Iraq.

Lisa Morris says it's hard to let go. Her husband has only been home two weeks. Already, their time is up.

LISA MORRIS, ROBERT'S WIFE: It puts a lot of tension in the family, the kids.

I feel blessed every day that I can sit down and all together as a family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Oh, what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh.

GUTIERREZ: For as much as he dreamed about coming home, Robert told me it isn't easy shifting gears out of combat.

ROBERT MORRIS: When I first got home on the first, I was happy, but in a sense I still had to get my mind back here in Georgia, to get my mind back to be with Lisa again, too, you know, because I've been gone away, I guess, maybe, like on the eighth and stuff, and then I'd snap myself back to reality. Hmm, I'm back home. I'm there now, and I'm a husband now. GUTIERREZ: His time in Iraq also weighs heavily on his children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worry a lot. Especially at nighttime when I go to sleep.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss him and I love him so much, and I don't want him to get killed. He gets us everything we need, food on the table, clothes on our back, and shoes and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he's gone, I have something on my mind, and I can't get it off, and I fall back on my grades.

ROBERT MORRIS: Come here. Come here. It's all right. Don't cry. It's all right. It's going to be all right. I'll be back. I promise you all, I will be back safe. Trust me.

GUTIERREZ: Twelve hours to go before Robert heads back to war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy, come here. I don't.

ROBERT MORRIS: I got everything I need, Lisa.

GUTIERREZ: This is the morning the Morrises dreaded.

ROBERT MORRIS: Ooh, rushing. I'm rushing a lot. And, well, not ready to go, but, you know, I got to go, so I wish I could stay another week at least.

LISA MORRIS: We're just not ready for him to leave right now.

ROBERT MORRIS: Get your shoes on, baby. Got to get your shoes on. We got to go.

I'm all set to go. Ready to go.

GUTIERREZ: For the next 30 hours, we'll follow Robert back to his other reality.

LISA MORRIS: Just got a few more minutes.

ROBERT MORRIS: Well, I'll see you all.

I don't want to go back, but I got to.

Give me a kiss. Love you. Give me a kiss. Love you. You all be good.

Back to my journey again.

LISA MORRIS: We've got a real good understanding with each other. You know, this is a job he has to do, but he'll be all right.

GUTIERREZ: Sergeant Robert Morris and 170 others leave their loved ones behind, not sure when they'll be back.

Nine hours later, we stop in Germany just long enough to refuel. As we head for Kuwait, chaplain offers a prayer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally, we give thanks for these soldiers. We're grateful for the willing sacrifice that they are making. We ask as they get into harm's way that their minds will be keen, that they'll be sharp, that they'll be decisive.

GUTIERREZ: A reminder that war is much closer now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God bless you all, now. Stay alert. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ROBERT MORRIS: When we loaded up from Germany, that pretty much triggered it for me.

GUTIERREZ: Five hours later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Kuwait.

GUTIERREZ: ... Robert and the other soldiers board buses and were off to Camp Doha near the Iraqi border.

ROBERT MORRIS: A little nervous, like I did when I first came over. You know, just edgy and more nervous than anything.

GUTIERREZ: With good reason. Robert tells me he's seen heavy combat. Every time he's gone out, his convoy has been hit by roadside bombs.

ROBERT MORRIS: We're going to an unsafe zone, so I pretty much got that in my mind. A lot in my mind.

GUTIERREZ: A few hours from now, Robert and the others will be back in Iraq.

(on camera): Before you leave, your family prepared a couple of messages.

ROBERT MORRIS: OK.

GUTIERREZ: So they wanted you to take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA MORRIS: I love you, and that you come back safely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll try to be taking better care of my brothers and sisters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, you have to be safe, to come back home, and have a good time with the family. And I'll be taking care of Mama and little Tina and Brandon. And I just want to say bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, 35, secure your gear at this time. GUTIERREZ (voice-over): At the break of dawn, we say good-bye to the husband and father we met in Georgia. Now Sergeant Robert Morris is back in the reality of a soldier at war, back to the dangers of convoy escort duty on the world's deadliest roads.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: What an incredible story. It's pretty hard to watch.

But while some are going, others are coming home. And when we return, we'll follow one soldier's journey back to his family. It's another remarkable touching story, and one you won't want to miss, so stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: We just showed you the tears of parting. But let's celebrate some of the joys this season with one American soldier returning from Iraq to spend two weeks with his family.

Now, once again, Thelma Gutierrez has a story that you will see only on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Fresh off the battlefield, Army Specialist Anthony Jimenez is about to leave Iraq after six months, and all of this behind.

While across the world in Punning (ph), Georgia...

RACHEL JIMENEZ: Santa Claus is coming tomorrow. He's coming early.

GUTIERREZ: ... Rachel Jimenez nervously prepares to see her only son.

Here on the desolate border of Iraq and Kuwait, we begin the long journey home.

RACHEL JIMENEZ: I constantly think about him and worry about him.

GUTIERREZ: But Rachel has no idea just how close her son was to the front. His boots are stained with the blood of combat.

SPEC. ANTHONY JIMENEZ, U.S. ARMY (on phone): Hey, Mom, you know, I'm down here in Kuwait now.

GUTIERREZ: She knew little until now.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: I got two things I got to tell you. Well, you'll probably going to be upset at one. I haven't been in Kuwait the whole time. Yes, I've been in Baghdad. And it's OK. It's OK. It's OK, Mama. I'm coming home.

Oh, yes. Thank you. Yes, she's a little upset about that one. I'm an only child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure you have two tags attached to your gear, one for your Kevlar, one for your vest.

GUTIERREZ: Anthony and the rest of these battle-weary soldiers pack in their body armor, the first sign they are going home.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Good to be going home, finally. It's a little rough (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUTIERREZ: Camp Doha is the hub of the R&R program. On average, 1,200 service men and women pass through here every day in or out of the theater.

I met Anthony for his first taste of home before our 30-hour trip back to the U.S. He says foremost in his mind is his family, and how he'll deal with the white lie he told his mother when he sees her.

(on camera): You basically told her the truth. What was her reaction?

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Oh, she was pretty upset. She started crying on the phone. I think she knew I was in Iraq. She just didn't know I was in Baghdad. She doesn't want me around the Baghdad area.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Anthony's job is in Baghdad, where he's the driver and protector of a lieutenant colonel.

This is what happened to their vehicle when they were attacked.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: I've been hit three times. The first time was the worst. It was an ambush. They hit us with three IEDs, four RPGs, and small-arms fire. And everybody was walking wounded.

GUTIERREZ: Anthony tells me he will never forget the day a car bomb exploded in Baghdad.

(on camera): You said that when you actually got out of your vehicle that day, you saw some pretty heady stuff.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Like, I stepped out of the vehicle, and, like, five, you know, five to 10 feet away, there was, like, a rib cage laying there, and whatever body parts there were.

GUTIERREZ: How do you deal with that?

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: We really just try not to think about it.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): More than 30 Iraqi children were killed that day.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: You learn to appreciate life a whole lot more when you're over here and you can be taken away just like that. In the blink of an eye, you know, you can get hit with something, and, you know, you're gone, you're no more, and now your family has to deal with that. GUTIERREZ: At 23, this is Anthony's third deployment, his second to a combat zone. He says his life is forever changed by Iraq.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: It's a big wakeup call to what's going on over here. I mean, I remember watching on the news, seeing what's going on, and, you know, man, I'm glad I'm not there. And, you know, now I am here. And I see what's going on.

GUTIERREZ: His experience has given him a new perspective on the Iraqis.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Most of the people that, you know, want to work for us or want us here are very nice people. And they -- you know, there's just some that don't agree with us being here and want to blame us for all their hardships.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): What do you see for your future?

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Family, kids, good education, and, you know, where I don't have to worry about money and I don't have -- my kids don't have to worry about war. I'll gladly fight the war so my kids don't have to.

RACHEL JIMENEZ: He'll be in tomorrow around 9:45.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Back in Georgia, a Christmas celebration awaits the son, now a soldier, who has always been the center of Rachel's life.

Physically and emotionally spent, Anthony and the others fly home. It takes a day and a half. Most sleep the whole way.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: It's Georgia out there. It's so pretty.

GUTIERREZ: Home never looked so good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's American freaking soil out there, and it's green, and there's buildings out there that aren't crumbling.

GUTIERREZ: As we're about to land in Georgia, they tell me they look forward to the simple things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A real fork instead of plastic.

GUTIERREZ: From here, many soldiers will fly on to their hometown. But Anthony is home.

His mother, father, and girlfriend anxiously await in the terminal. As we make our way toward them, Anthony tells me he has butterflies in his stomach.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: It's OK. I'm home now. It's all right.

GUTIERREZ: If only for two weeks.

(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: Another remarkable story about one of our brave troops back in the United States tonight. Welcome home.

And great reporting by CNN's Thelma Gutierrez as well.

Well, still ahead, public outrage and a strong show of support for a traditional American charity.

And, as we go to our break here, more live pictures of the midnight Mass going on right now at the Vatican, Pope John Paul II presiding over the Mass tonight. And the pope, we're told, kept up his full, vigorous schedule this Christmas Eve, despite his frail health.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: A public outcry across America after Target changed its policy toward the Salvation Army. Now, this year Target banned Salvation Army bell ringers from all of its 1,300 stores. In a statement, Target said, quote, "If we continue to allow the Salvation Army to solicit, then it opens the door to any other groups that wish to solicit our guests."

Well, earlier I spoke with Commissioner W. Todd Bassett, and he is the national commander of the Salvation Army. I began by asking him how much of their donations were collected at Target.

COMMISSIONER W. TODD BASSETT, NATIONAL COMMANDER, SALVATION ARMY: Actually, we have not been able to get to the heart of the problem, other than the fact that they said if they allow the Salvation Army, they have to allow everyone else who asks. And so we had to accept that decision.

PILGRIM: You were getting a considerable amount of proceeds from the positions there in front of Target stores, weren't you?

BASSETT: Actually, we raised approximately 10 percent of our Christmas Kettle income in front of Target stores.

PILGRIM: Now a few companies have stepped into the breach, haven't they?

BASSETT: Wonderfully. We are so grateful for the way people have responded.

PILGRIM: One of these is Wal-Mart. Tell us a little bit about their response.

BASSETT: Well, we were overwhelmed with Wal-Mart, who has always allowed us to stand at their stores. Came to us last week and said that they would match up to $1 million that was raised in front of Target -- Wal-Mart stores during the last week before Christmas.

PILGRIM: There's been a considerable public outcry over Target's move. Are you surprised about that?

BASSETT: Well, frankly, I can't say that I was surprised, because this has happened in the past, where people have -- or stores have tried to exclude the Army. And our official position, both in this case and in the past, has been that we are not going to do anything in retaliation, and we have not in this situation.

But as soon as the word got out to the public, it has overwhelmed us in this case, the manner in which people, organizations, governments, other stores have just responded overwhelmingly to come to our defense. And they've done so not only with donations and allowing us to stand, but volunteers have come along and said, We will help you one way or another.

PILGRIM: Isn't that great?

You know, the Salvation Army has a wonderful long history, and it does create nostalgia for many people, because they remember it from their childhood. In fact, Booz Allen just came up with a list of the 10 most enduring institutions, and the Salvation Army was on it. But many of us don't know exactly what those funds pay for out there in the world. Tell us a little bit about your current mission.

BASSETT: Well, in addition to over 5 million people who receive assistance at Christmastime with toys and food and clothing and those things associated with Christmas, every moment of every day, 365 days out of the year, there are people sleeping in our shelters or our transitional programs. People are receiving food, either through emergency assistance or at our soup kitchens. At time of disaster, the Salvation Army was on the scene in Florida, in San Diego, throughout the country. Along with the Red Cross, the Salvation Army is at the front of disaster.

Now, this is in addition to summer camping programs for children, 350 boys and girls club, community centers across the nation. So that the myriad of activity and program in addition to the religious and spiritual program of the Salvation Army.

PILGRIM: Well, we certainly wish you every success with this current Christmas season, and your fund-raising. And we wish you the best of the season and merry Christmas. Thanks very much for joining us, Commissioner Bassett.

BASSETT: And merry Christmas to you, Kitty. Thank you.

PILGRIM: Well, as we reported earlier, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today made a surprise visit to our troops in Iraq.

And joining me now to talk about that and some other issues are two top political journalists. From Washington, Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times," and Roger Simon of "U.S. News and World Report."

Merry Christmas, gentlemen.

RON BROWNSTEIN, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Merry Christmas. ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Merry Christmas, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Let's talk about the Rumsfeld visit. And he was pretty honest. He said he didn't want to paint a pretty picture, because it isn't. Now, is this a moment of crisis, do you think, in the Iraq equation for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld?

SIMON: Well, I think Donald Rumsfeld was trying to accomplish a number of things, one, to boost the morale of the troops, which is an honorable thing to do, and it's a good thing to do, and two, to do a little image repair for himself, which is understandable.

And I think the trip was fine, but I just don't think that these high-profile politicians and officeholders should continue them. It takes an enormous amount of men, materiel, and planning just to protect these guys. And you could bet every armored vehicle that Secretary Rumsfeld rode in and was surrounded by could be better used to protect our troops elsewhere.

BROWNSTEIN: I am going to disagree a little bit on that front, Kitty. I think that it is important for this sort of signal to be sent to the troops of concern at the highest level of the government, and there really is no better way than for it to be delivered in person.

You know, Donald -- I think it was appropriate for him to go. Now, does it solve his problems here at home? I would say, yes and no. Donald Rumsfeld was really facing criticism along two totally separate tracks.

One is style, the question of whether he has been sufficiently concerned about the welfare of the troops. It's the issue that was opened up by his responses in Kuwait. He has had a very distinctive, imperious, tough, sometimes condescending style throughout his career as a very effective bureaucrat in Washington and senior government official. It worked against him, and I think this was an effort to sort of modify or soften his image.

The other line of criticism, though, is on the substance of what is happening in Iraq, and whether the Pentagon has efficiently planned and prepared for the kind of war we find ourselves in. And I don't think this trip is really going to change the equation, with more Republican senators and conservative activists in particular, raising questions about his performance.

PILGRIM: Well, let me pick up what Roger said (UNINTELLIGIBLE). In terms of the equipment, he did say that he acknowledged the equipment shortage, and said he's going to ask Congress for more money. Came up again in a sort of kinder context this time. Roger, do you think he'll get that money? And will the equipment shortage be improved?

SIMON: Kitty, he's going to get whatever he wants. I mean, the cornucopia is endless for -- at this point for the support of our troops. But Rumsfeld's raising of this issue, and his rather cold response to the soldier in Kuwait who asked, Why don't we have enough armored vehicles? and he said, When you go to war, you go to war with the army you have, I thought was not only a bad response in terms of not really being sensitive to the issue, but it also raised the key issue of, why did we go to war when we went to war?

And Rumsfeld was -- had made critical mistakes on that point. We didn't have to go to war when we went to war. There were no weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein was not threatening the United States or his neighbors. And that intelligence error was in part Rumsfeld's error.

So to throw that back in the face of the soldiers was wrong.

But just back a little bit to disagree slightly with Ron's disagreement about how helpful these...

BROWNSTEIN: A disagreement of the second order, yes.

SIMON: ... how just -- how helpful this trip is for Rumsfeld. I think Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary Rumsfeld, has to make one resolution for the new year, and that's to stop making this war about him. I mean, when we're still counting the bodies in Mosul, he is having a press conference saying that he feels terrible that people don't like him, and that he's not sensitive, and he really is.

You know, you just wanted to grab him and say, Mr. Secretary, get over yourself.

PILGRIM: Well, let me (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMON: This is not about you. It's about the troops.

PILGRIM: Yes. Let me just step forward and say he did talk about anyone who participates in this will understand later how historic it is. He did take a very big-picture view of this.

BROWNSTEIN: And, you know (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMON: He's a lightning rod, and he keeps directing the lightning back at himself...

BROWNSTEIN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMON: ... and he's standing too close to the president for that to be a viable political strategy.

PILGRIM: Well, let's let Ron respond.

BROWNSTEIN: That's a very good point. But I think I was struck today at the similarity between his line of argument and language, and the president's in his acceptance speech at the convention last summer, where he tried to basically argue that we needed to take a very long view of the situation in Iraq, comparable to looking at Germany after World War II, and basically suggesting this is a process that may take a very long time to produce progress, but that in the end, as you said, we will be glad we did this. We'll see. The message from all the senior officials this past week has been, I think, very sobering, whether it's Secretary Rumsfeld or outgoing Secretary Powell, or even the president. They've all been basically telling the country that we're not making as much progress as we hoped at building an Iraqi force, and that the election is not going to be an immediate turning point in the level of violence.

Tough days ahead, is what they're counseling.

SIMON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

PILGRIM: Gentleman, we have to call it there. I'm afraid we could debate this endlessly tonight. But instead, we'll just wish each other merry Christmas and call it a draw.

SIMON: Same to you.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

BROWNSTEIN: And thank you, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Roger Simon and Ron Brownstein, thank you.

Still ahead, a preview of what we're working on for next week. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us on Monday, and we'll tell you about one U.S. company keeping American jobs right here at home.

Plus, former INS agent Michael Cutler on our immigration and border crisis.

And former CIA senior analyst Flynt Leverest (ph) on the priorities ahead for the new director of national intelligence.

Good night from New York, and merry Christmas.

Anderson Cooper 360 is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired December 24, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a massive bomb explosion in Baghdad as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld makes a surprise visit to American troops in Iraq.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: You are on the side of freedom, and that's the side to be on.

PILGRIM: Is it back to the USSR? President Vladimir Putin uses the language of the Cold War as he questions U.S. policy toward Russia. Ian Bremer, president of Eurasia Group, is my guest.

And the national commander of the Salvation Army says he's overwhelmed by the public support after Target banned Salvation Army bell ringers from its stores. I'll be talking with Salvation Army's commissioner W. Todd Bassett.

And rallying around our troops this holiday season. National Guard soldiers here offer a helping hand to comrades overseas facing financial problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we do it with a lot of pride, and we do it because we care about those families.

PILGRIM: Tonight our special report, "Holiday Homefront."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, December 24. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, who is on vacation, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening.

Tonight a suicide bomber kills eight people in Baghdad. The blast came just hours after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld left. He was there on a surprise Christmas visit to the troops.

The suicide bomber exploded a fuel tanker truck in Baghdad's embassy district.

Secretary Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq began in the northern city of Mosul, and that's where a suicide bomber killed 22 people earlier this week. Eighteen Americans were among the dead. Karl Penhaul reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was still an hour until dawn when he touched down in Mosul.

RUMSFELD: Wow, what a crowd.

PENHAUL: A morale booster for troops still reeling from Tuesday's lethal suicide bombing and recognition for the wounded.

RUMSFELD: When you see an attack like we saw here so recently, we think it's tough and difficult. And one has to ask the question, what's going to happen here in this country of Iraq?

PENHAUL: While Tuesday's attack was further evidence Iraq's insurgency is growing, Rumsfeld said he believed the war was winnable, even if others didn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we win the war in the media? That seems like that is the place where we're getting beat up more than anywhere else.

PENHAUL: Rumsfeld knows the feeling, though his Christmas Eve trip to Iraq's top trouble spots may counter recent criticism of him for not personally signing letters of condolence to bereaved families and brushing off a soldier's worries about armored trucks.

RUMSFELD: Thanks for what you're doing; appreciate it.

PENHAUL: More smiles and handshakes in Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's birth place.

RUMSFELD: You are on the side of freedom, and that's the side to be on.

PENHAUL: And a warning even the U.S. war machine has weak spots.

RUMSFELD: Terrorists can attack at any time, any place using any technique.

PENHAUL: U.S. troop numbers now stand at 151,000, record levels to safeguard scheduled January elections.

RUMSFELD: The elections don't have to be delayed. The elections can go forward.

PENHAUL: That's part of the longer term U.S. exit strategy that also hinges on getting Iraqi forces to fight for themselves.

RUMSFELD: The task is to help to organize and train and equip Iraqis so that they can provide for their own security.

Merry Christmas to you. PENHAUL: In Falluja, scene last month of one of the biggest Marine offensives since Vietnam, one of the troops shared some of the spoils of war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, this is for you, sir. I don't know if you smoke or not. But you can take that back to Washington, D.C., sir. That came out of Saddam Hussein's stash and this came off of an insurgent in Falluja. He's not going to be smoking anymore for a while.

RUMSFELD: I love it.

PENHAUL: And as Rumsfeld wished the troops happy holidays, some were probably wondering, just as they were last year, how many more Christmases will U.S. troops be stationed in Iraq?

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Well, as Karl Penhaul reported Rumsfeld today blasted the media's coverage of the war in Iraq. And the issue came up during one of Rumsfeld's question and answer sessions with the troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we win the war in the media? It seems like that is the place where we're getting beat up more than anybody else. I've been here -- this is my third tour over here, and we've done some amazing things. And it seems like the enemy's web sites and everything else are all over the media, and they are -- they love it.

But the thing is, everything we do good, no matter if it's helping a little kid or building a new school, the public affairs sends out the message, but the media doesn't pick up on it. How do we win the propaganda war?

RUMSFELD: Does not sound like a question that was planted by the press.

You don't hear about the schools are open and the hospitals are open and the clinics are open and the fact that the stock market is open and the Iraqi currency is steady and the fact that there have been something like 140,000 refugees coming from other countries back into this country. They are voting with their feet, because they believe this is a country of the future.

You don't read about that. You read about every single negative thing that anyone can find to report.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is the president's top adviser on military affairs, of course. But last month, Secretary of State Colin Powell joined the intensifying debate about the number of troops in Iraq.

White House correspondent Dana Bash reports on that.

And Dana, before we get to the Powell story, the president made some pretty important phone calls today, didn't he?

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kitty. That's right. The president followed the tradition for commanders in chief around the holidays, and that is to make some phone calls to men and women serving in the military around the world during the holiday time to say hello and thank you for your service and of course, happy holidays.

We're told that he president made 10 phone calls today, six of them to those serving in Iraq. And he did so, of course, from Camp David, where he's spending the Christmas holiday.

Now troop levels in Iraq, of course, as you mentioned, have been a controversial issue. Very much so on the campaign trail during the campaign and still certainly are.

And you mentioned that a "Washington Post" story today ran, saying that Colin Powell, the secretary of state, during a time when the prime minister of Great Britain was visiting Mr. Bush, just 10 days after the election, joined the two men in a meeting. And there the story is that he advised it's important to get more troops on the ground in Iraq to control the insurgency.

Well, a State Department official, a senior official, tells CNN that the secretary was asked, as he frequently is, by the president for his opinion during that meeting. Of course, Secretary of State Powell was the chairman of the joint chiefs and has some expertise in this area.

And that the secretary said that it's important to get more troops on the ground to, quote, "dominate the terrain." That's according to a senior official.

But the official also stressed that it was not an action-taking meeting and that Powell also said that it's important to get the Iraqi troop level up. And that, of course, has been something that has been a White House strategy for some time now.

But what is interesting about this and the White House is certainly mum about details of this, is that the president and Prime Minister Blair were talking about the concerns about the insurgency for some time, certainly a month ago, Kitty.

But the president has not made those concerns publicly and concerns about the fact that the Iraqi army is not up and running as much as the U.S. wants it to be until this week.

So certainly we're following this story more, but the White House at this point is mum about the specifics of the story, except to say the president always listens to his commanders on the ground, always seeks advice from his cabinet and that's about it -- Kitty. PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Dana Bash. Thanks, Dana.

We've reported extensively here on the inspirational stories of some of the troops who have been wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one of those heroes is Marine Gunnery Sergeant Nick Popaditch. He nearly lost his life in a battle in Falluja.

Casey Wian reports from 29 Palms, California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gunnery Nick Popaditch is doing what he loves best, showing off an M1-A1 battle tank, the kind he's commanded through two Gulf Wars.

GUNNERY SGT. NICK POPADITCH, U.S. MARINE CORPS: There's no weapons system in Iraq currently employed by the anticoalition forces that can take this thing off the battlefield.

WIAN: Popaditch rolled into Baghdad's Fidol (ph) Square on a tank he named Carnivore. He and his fellow Marines helped the Iraqis take down the now infamous statue of Saddam Hussein.

POPADITCH: We really felt at that time we were seeing these people liberated, these people were being freed. And they certainly were reacting that way. And it was just -- it was just an incredible moment to be part of.

WIAN: Popaditch completed the deployment and came home but just a few months later volunteered to go back with another unit.

POPADITCH: I'm a Marine. If Marines are off fighting somewhere, I don't want to be home watching on TV. I want to be there. I want to be with them and be part of it.

WIAN: This time he found himself in Falluja in a tough firefight with insurgents. A rocket-propelled grenade almost cost him his life.

POPADITCH: The other one came from straight down above me. It hit me right on top of the head, right about here.

WIAN: The explosion took out Popaditch's right eye and left him partially blind in his left eye and deaf.

POPADITCH: There is -- there's like a cap in there. I don't know if this is gross or not. It's not gross to me or anybody, but there's just a -- there's just a cap in there.

WIAN: Popaditch can't read but says his sight gets better every day. He can't hear with one ear and hopes a hearing aid will help the other. In spite of the ordeal, he feels lucky.

POPADITCH: It never struck me as a tragedy or anything like that, because you've got -- I'm perfectly fine from the neck down. I'm perfectly healthy.

WIAN: While he recovers, Popaditch hangs out with fellow Marines in the tank maintenance yard, anxious to get back to work.

POPADITCH: I'd go back in a minute. As soon as I can see again, that's my plan.

WIAN: And he hopes his 15-year military career will continue.

Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: What a remarkable man. Now Sergeant Popaditch is making a good recovery. Still in the Marine Corps and still stationed in the 29 Palms. We wish him and his family and his fellow Marines a very merry Christmas.

We'll have more on our brave troops a little bit later in the show. We'll have the brave story of a soldier who has left his family behind this Christmas to serve his country in Iraq.

And our border with Mexico wide open to illegal aliens. So why isn't our government taking border security seriously? We'll have a special report on that.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Three million illegal aliens will enter this country this year. But the federal government has completed only a part of a fence along just a tiny portion of a border with Mexico. Now plans for that fence were approved eight years ago.

Peter Viles reports from the Tijuana River Valley along the Mexican border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The old fence, 14 miles of salvaged metal, was a stopgap measure to block the favorite path of Mexican drug smugglers and illegal aliens, and it worked. Illegal traffic dropped dramatically.

But then powerful Congressman Duncan Hunter convinced the Clinton administration to build a real barrier, a second fence that cannot be cut or climbed. That was eight years ago.

The original fence falling apart in places and still four miles of that secondary fence have not been built.

GARY BECKS, AIDE TO U.S. REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER: It's taken more time to build this 14 miles of fence than it did to win World War II. VILES: The stick pointing point: environmental laws, endangered species of plants and birds, even claims the fence would disrupt Indian artifacts, such as these seashell fragments.

BECKS: Seashells laying in the dirt. Give me a break.

VILES (on camera): The fence debate comes down to this: Could Homeland Security simply fix this 10-year-old steel fence, or does it need to fill in some of these canyons to build 150-foot corridor with a patrol road along the border and a second fence inside the border?

(voice-over): The government believes that corridor is crucial, making the border easier to patrol and discouraging people like these guys from making a run for it.

The House voted this fall to temporarily waive all environmental laws to finish the second fence, but the Senate wouldn't go along, and environmentalists are digging in, saying this small corner of coastal mesas and canyons must be preserved.

GREG ABBOTT, CALIFORNIA PARKS & RECREATION: To have a little mesa this distance from the ocean with this sandy bay point soil is extremely rare. There's a whole little plant community to the West here that you won't find anywhere else in the United States.

VILES: There's also a border crisis here that effects every person in the United States.

Peter Viles, CNN, in the Tijuana River Valley, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Still ahead here tonight, a holiday concert that's also helping the families of American troops serving in Iraq. Our special report is next.

And then, Russian president Vladimir Putin signals a growing divide between the Kremlin and the United States. Russian expert Ian Bremmer is my guest.

And we go to our break here and we have live pictures of midnight mass going on right now at the Vatican. Pope John Paul II is presiding over the mass tonight, which is being broadcast to a record 73 countries.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Tonight, our special report "Holiday Homefront" on the many people helping to support American troops stationed overseas. A unique tribute from the Delaware Army National Guard has been helping military families in need for years.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Newark, Delaware.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For David Thorngate, it's the little things that matter, spending time with his wife and children. For 14 months, the Army National Guardsman was separated from them.

SGT. DAVID THORNGATE, 340TH ENGINEER DETACHMENT: The possibility was there all the time that you weren't coming back. But, you know, you do everything you can to protect yourself and everybody else around you and you look out for each other.

SYLVESTER: While he was holding off the enemy in Iraq, his wife was holding down the fort at their Delaware home, caring for their three children. But, while he was away, the family suffered a near tragedy. Bernadette Thorngate broke a vertebrae in her neck.

BERNADETTE THORNGATE, HUSBAND IN IRAQ: I lost control of the car, and the car spun around and then hit an embankment on the other side.

SYLVESTER: And if that was not enough, David's cabinet-making business was on the verge of collapsing. The money had stopped flowing in, and his military pay did not come close to covering all of the family's expenses.

(on camera): While David was away, his woodworking business suffered. He lost about 75 percent of his sales and feared his business would go under, until he got some outside help.

(voice-over): Help came in the form of music. The Delaware Army National Guard Band raises emergency relief money for families of deployed soldiers facing hardship. The fund paid for a nanny to help look after the children while his wife recovered and gave David a small business loan to get back on his feet.

SGT. MAJOR JAMES SNYDER, 287TH ARMY NATIONAL GUARD BAND: It's the very least that we can do, and it's something that we do and we do with a lot of pride, and we do it because we care about those families.

SYLVESTER: So far, the relief fund has collected more than $150,000 in donations from corporations, individuals and schools. David Thorngate says he could have lost his house if it weren't for the help.

Now he's celebrating Christmas in his home, a far cry from last year when he spent it miles away in Iraq.

Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Newark, Delaware.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Still ahead tonight, this holiday season is anything but warm between the United States and Russia. Russian expert and Eurasia Group President Ian Bremmer joins me next. And then, the stories of two American soldiers fighting in Iraq, one of them arriving home for a two-week rest with the family, the other returning to battle. Their inspiring stories are next.

And a familiar sight outside Target stores is no more. How The Salvation Army is reacting to the retailer's new ban on its red kettles. Its commissioner, W. Todd Bassett, will join us.

That and a great deal more still ahead here tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: In a moment, new tension between the United States and Russia. Russian expert Ian Bremmer of Eurasia Group will join me.

But, first, a look at some of the top stories.

Holiday travelers are running into icy roads and congestion throughout the snow-covered Ohio Valley. Indiana state police are urging drivers to avoid Interstate 65 between Indianapolis and Louisville, Kentucky. I-64 is also slow going in Indiana and Illinois.

Orbiting Saturn, the Cassini spacecraft is set to release a probe that will travel to one of the planet's moons, Titan. Now the probe is expected to land on Saturn's largest moon next month.

And the Ukrainian presidential candidates are campaigning for a final day ahead of the repeat election on Sunday. Ukraine's Supreme Court threw out earlier results on evidence of massive fraud. Twelve thousand international monitors are in the Ukraine for the vote.

Well, President Vladimir Putin this week said he wants to know if the United States is trying to isolate Russia. Putin's comments reflect rising tensions between the United States and Russia over Ukraine and other issues.

Earlier, I talked with Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group and a leading expert on Russia, and I began by asking him for his assessment of Putin's latest comments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IAN BREMMER, EURASIA GROUP: I think we have seen the peak of the U.S.-Russia strategic relationship. There's no question that the words that have come out of the White House over the past week expressing concern about the consolidation of power in Russia, coming on the heels of the great difference of opinion on Ukraine and the upcoming elections going on over this weekend, have shown a rift between the two countries, so much so that Bush was pretty quick about organizing a summit between the two leaders in Bradislav coming up in February, but...

PILGRIM: What do you expect from that?

BREMMER: Well, it's going to be a tough meeting in the sense that certainly the United States gets more and better counterterrorist information from the Russians than probably any country in the world with the exception of Israel. That's recognized and appreciated by the Bush administration, and that cooperation will still be there. But there's been cooperation on the security front with France and Germany. It hasn't stopped relationships being difficult.

There are a lot of real issues here. The U.S. is not just asking for clarification about what Mr. Putin has done with Yukos, the big oil company, for example. It hasn't asked for clarification about Ukraine. It's expressed concern. His spokesman expressed concern.

To the extent that Putin is now asking, well, is the U.S. trying to isolate us, that's probably a little too hard. But we're not seeing the kind of cooperation beyond security, the strategic partnership looking at things like an energy relationship between the two countries, the NATO-Russia partnership that everyone was talking about a year ago. That's going nowhere.

PILGRIM: Many people are suggesting that Russia is going backwards a bit in terms of their democratic freedoms, the business environment is being questioned because of the Yukos problems, and how do you assess the sort of state of democracy? Freedom House has backpedaled on their freedom index for Russia. How do you assess the state of democracy, and is it something that we should be worried about?

BREMMER: Well, Freedom House called Russia not free after Russia went into -- in part, because of their -- relations with Ukraine, and that's a little bit like saying France is unfree because of their engagement in the Cote d'Ivoire, the United States after Iraq. So we have recognize that western liberal democracy and our ideas of what we want to see in Russia are a little bit different than the way it looks inside Moscow itself.

But there's no question that if you look at Russian treatment of the press, if you look at treatment of the governors, which aren't going to be directly elected anymore, if you look at the judiciary which is going to be more directly controlled by the Kremlin, we're talking about a country which is not on an East European trajectory towards joining the West -- the community in the West of nations. That we're not seeing.

PILGRIM: The Ukraine raised a lot of alarm because Vladimir Putin was so active in that campaign, and then the poisoning allegations that came afterwards had many people suggesting that Russia played a role in that. How do you assess the situation in Ukraine and Russia's role in it?

BREMMER: Russia clearly intends to have continued influence over Ukraine, and Ukraine is a pretty divided state. There are still a majority of the people in the Southeast of Ukraine in Crimea that would support a much closer relationship with Russia than Kiev and the West of Ukraine. What that means is -- let's say that Mr. Yushchenko, the opposition leader, the orange revolution, actually wins on the 26th, and I think that's a pretty safe bet at this point...

PILGRIM: Which is this coming weekend, the Ukrainian election.

BREMMER: Which is on the 26th.

PILGRIM: Yes.

BREMMER: Let's assume that he wins. The relationship between Russia and Ukraine is still going to be difficult.

The ability for Yushchenko to run his country as a unified state is going to be hard because the industrial base of that country doesn't actually support a sudden move towards the United States and toward the European Union.

So there's no question Russia's still going to have influence, and I think that in a sense, the elections are only the beginning of Ukraine's problems in terms of governance on the ground.

PILGRIM: But is this Russian meddling something that the United States should be worried about? Does it portend that Russia will continue to meddle in other country's affairs?

BREMMER: You might remember that President Bush senior once made a speech after he was in Kiev, the so-called Chicken Kiev speech, where he said it's to move toward independence, but not too much. That was when Ukraine was trying to get away from the former Soviet Union.

Very interesting. The person that actually wrote that speech, Condi Rice, senior director of the National Security Council in charge of Europe and Eurasia at the time. Have some independence, but recognize that Ukraine is also part of the Russian bloc and much more influenced from Russia than the United States.

Mr. Yushchenko would do well to remember Condi's role when he's thinking about how to lead post-elections Ukraine in the next couple of months. ' PILGRIM: Thank you for your analysis today.

Dr. Ian Bremmer.

Thank you.

BREMMER: Merry Christmas.

PILGRIM: Merry Christmas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Another remarkable story of Sergeant Robert Morris, and, tonight, he is in Iraq on a dangerous detail far from home. Now Morris was able to celebrate Christmas early with his family in Georgia.

And CNN's Thelma Gutierrez joined him for that occasion as well as for his return to duty, and this is one soldier's story and a story you'll only see on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sergeant Robert Morris has seen the reality of war.

For four months, he's had one of the riskiest jobs in Iraq, commanding a gun truck and fighting off attacks on convoys traveling the world's most dangerous roads.

He's seen a lot, but he doesn't like to talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Mary, Mary had a baby boy in Bethlehem...

GUTIERREZ: Canton, Georgia, is far from all of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Mary, Mary had a baby boy, heavenly angels shout for joy...

GUTIERREZ: And so is this family celebration.

SGT. ROBERT MORRIS, U.S. ARMY: You feel real good, because I know I'm leaving tomorrow, and I'm not going to spend Christmas Day with them, so this is the Morris family's Christmas is today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, Daddy!

GUTIERREZ: The Morrises invited us to share their last night together before this father of five heads back to Iraq.

Lisa Morris says it's hard to let go. Her husband has only been home two weeks. Already, their time is up.

LISA MORRIS, ROBERT'S WIFE: It puts a lot of tension in the family, the kids.

I feel blessed every day that I can sit down and all together as a family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Oh, what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh.

GUTIERREZ: For as much as he dreamed about coming home, Robert told me it isn't easy shifting gears out of combat.

ROBERT MORRIS: When I first got home on the first, I was happy, but in a sense I still had to get my mind back here in Georgia, to get my mind back to be with Lisa again, too, you know, because I've been gone away, I guess, maybe, like on the eighth and stuff, and then I'd snap myself back to reality. Hmm, I'm back home. I'm there now, and I'm a husband now. GUTIERREZ: His time in Iraq also weighs heavily on his children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worry a lot. Especially at nighttime when I go to sleep.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss him and I love him so much, and I don't want him to get killed. He gets us everything we need, food on the table, clothes on our back, and shoes and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he's gone, I have something on my mind, and I can't get it off, and I fall back on my grades.

ROBERT MORRIS: Come here. Come here. It's all right. Don't cry. It's all right. It's going to be all right. I'll be back. I promise you all, I will be back safe. Trust me.

GUTIERREZ: Twelve hours to go before Robert heads back to war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy, come here. I don't.

ROBERT MORRIS: I got everything I need, Lisa.

GUTIERREZ: This is the morning the Morrises dreaded.

ROBERT MORRIS: Ooh, rushing. I'm rushing a lot. And, well, not ready to go, but, you know, I got to go, so I wish I could stay another week at least.

LISA MORRIS: We're just not ready for him to leave right now.

ROBERT MORRIS: Get your shoes on, baby. Got to get your shoes on. We got to go.

I'm all set to go. Ready to go.

GUTIERREZ: For the next 30 hours, we'll follow Robert back to his other reality.

LISA MORRIS: Just got a few more minutes.

ROBERT MORRIS: Well, I'll see you all.

I don't want to go back, but I got to.

Give me a kiss. Love you. Give me a kiss. Love you. You all be good.

Back to my journey again.

LISA MORRIS: We've got a real good understanding with each other. You know, this is a job he has to do, but he'll be all right.

GUTIERREZ: Sergeant Robert Morris and 170 others leave their loved ones behind, not sure when they'll be back.

Nine hours later, we stop in Germany just long enough to refuel. As we head for Kuwait, chaplain offers a prayer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally, we give thanks for these soldiers. We're grateful for the willing sacrifice that they are making. We ask as they get into harm's way that their minds will be keen, that they'll be sharp, that they'll be decisive.

GUTIERREZ: A reminder that war is much closer now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God bless you all, now. Stay alert. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ROBERT MORRIS: When we loaded up from Germany, that pretty much triggered it for me.

GUTIERREZ: Five hours later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Kuwait.

GUTIERREZ: ... Robert and the other soldiers board buses and were off to Camp Doha near the Iraqi border.

ROBERT MORRIS: A little nervous, like I did when I first came over. You know, just edgy and more nervous than anything.

GUTIERREZ: With good reason. Robert tells me he's seen heavy combat. Every time he's gone out, his convoy has been hit by roadside bombs.

ROBERT MORRIS: We're going to an unsafe zone, so I pretty much got that in my mind. A lot in my mind.

GUTIERREZ: A few hours from now, Robert and the others will be back in Iraq.

(on camera): Before you leave, your family prepared a couple of messages.

ROBERT MORRIS: OK.

GUTIERREZ: So they wanted you to take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA MORRIS: I love you, and that you come back safely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll try to be taking better care of my brothers and sisters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, you have to be safe, to come back home, and have a good time with the family. And I'll be taking care of Mama and little Tina and Brandon. And I just want to say bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, 35, secure your gear at this time. GUTIERREZ (voice-over): At the break of dawn, we say good-bye to the husband and father we met in Georgia. Now Sergeant Robert Morris is back in the reality of a soldier at war, back to the dangers of convoy escort duty on the world's deadliest roads.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: What an incredible story. It's pretty hard to watch.

But while some are going, others are coming home. And when we return, we'll follow one soldier's journey back to his family. It's another remarkable touching story, and one you won't want to miss, so stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: We just showed you the tears of parting. But let's celebrate some of the joys this season with one American soldier returning from Iraq to spend two weeks with his family.

Now, once again, Thelma Gutierrez has a story that you will see only on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Fresh off the battlefield, Army Specialist Anthony Jimenez is about to leave Iraq after six months, and all of this behind.

While across the world in Punning (ph), Georgia...

RACHEL JIMENEZ: Santa Claus is coming tomorrow. He's coming early.

GUTIERREZ: ... Rachel Jimenez nervously prepares to see her only son.

Here on the desolate border of Iraq and Kuwait, we begin the long journey home.

RACHEL JIMENEZ: I constantly think about him and worry about him.

GUTIERREZ: But Rachel has no idea just how close her son was to the front. His boots are stained with the blood of combat.

SPEC. ANTHONY JIMENEZ, U.S. ARMY (on phone): Hey, Mom, you know, I'm down here in Kuwait now.

GUTIERREZ: She knew little until now.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: I got two things I got to tell you. Well, you'll probably going to be upset at one. I haven't been in Kuwait the whole time. Yes, I've been in Baghdad. And it's OK. It's OK. It's OK, Mama. I'm coming home.

Oh, yes. Thank you. Yes, she's a little upset about that one. I'm an only child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure you have two tags attached to your gear, one for your Kevlar, one for your vest.

GUTIERREZ: Anthony and the rest of these battle-weary soldiers pack in their body armor, the first sign they are going home.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Good to be going home, finally. It's a little rough (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUTIERREZ: Camp Doha is the hub of the R&R program. On average, 1,200 service men and women pass through here every day in or out of the theater.

I met Anthony for his first taste of home before our 30-hour trip back to the U.S. He says foremost in his mind is his family, and how he'll deal with the white lie he told his mother when he sees her.

(on camera): You basically told her the truth. What was her reaction?

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Oh, she was pretty upset. She started crying on the phone. I think she knew I was in Iraq. She just didn't know I was in Baghdad. She doesn't want me around the Baghdad area.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Anthony's job is in Baghdad, where he's the driver and protector of a lieutenant colonel.

This is what happened to their vehicle when they were attacked.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: I've been hit three times. The first time was the worst. It was an ambush. They hit us with three IEDs, four RPGs, and small-arms fire. And everybody was walking wounded.

GUTIERREZ: Anthony tells me he will never forget the day a car bomb exploded in Baghdad.

(on camera): You said that when you actually got out of your vehicle that day, you saw some pretty heady stuff.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Like, I stepped out of the vehicle, and, like, five, you know, five to 10 feet away, there was, like, a rib cage laying there, and whatever body parts there were.

GUTIERREZ: How do you deal with that?

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: We really just try not to think about it.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): More than 30 Iraqi children were killed that day.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: You learn to appreciate life a whole lot more when you're over here and you can be taken away just like that. In the blink of an eye, you know, you can get hit with something, and, you know, you're gone, you're no more, and now your family has to deal with that. GUTIERREZ: At 23, this is Anthony's third deployment, his second to a combat zone. He says his life is forever changed by Iraq.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: It's a big wakeup call to what's going on over here. I mean, I remember watching on the news, seeing what's going on, and, you know, man, I'm glad I'm not there. And, you know, now I am here. And I see what's going on.

GUTIERREZ: His experience has given him a new perspective on the Iraqis.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Most of the people that, you know, want to work for us or want us here are very nice people. And they -- you know, there's just some that don't agree with us being here and want to blame us for all their hardships.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): What do you see for your future?

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: Family, kids, good education, and, you know, where I don't have to worry about money and I don't have -- my kids don't have to worry about war. I'll gladly fight the war so my kids don't have to.

RACHEL JIMENEZ: He'll be in tomorrow around 9:45.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Back in Georgia, a Christmas celebration awaits the son, now a soldier, who has always been the center of Rachel's life.

Physically and emotionally spent, Anthony and the others fly home. It takes a day and a half. Most sleep the whole way.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: It's Georgia out there. It's so pretty.

GUTIERREZ: Home never looked so good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's American freaking soil out there, and it's green, and there's buildings out there that aren't crumbling.

GUTIERREZ: As we're about to land in Georgia, they tell me they look forward to the simple things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A real fork instead of plastic.

GUTIERREZ: From here, many soldiers will fly on to their hometown. But Anthony is home.

His mother, father, and girlfriend anxiously await in the terminal. As we make our way toward them, Anthony tells me he has butterflies in his stomach.

ANTHONY JIMENEZ: It's OK. I'm home now. It's all right.

GUTIERREZ: If only for two weeks.

(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: Another remarkable story about one of our brave troops back in the United States tonight. Welcome home.

And great reporting by CNN's Thelma Gutierrez as well.

Well, still ahead, public outrage and a strong show of support for a traditional American charity.

And, as we go to our break here, more live pictures of the midnight Mass going on right now at the Vatican, Pope John Paul II presiding over the Mass tonight. And the pope, we're told, kept up his full, vigorous schedule this Christmas Eve, despite his frail health.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: A public outcry across America after Target changed its policy toward the Salvation Army. Now, this year Target banned Salvation Army bell ringers from all of its 1,300 stores. In a statement, Target said, quote, "If we continue to allow the Salvation Army to solicit, then it opens the door to any other groups that wish to solicit our guests."

Well, earlier I spoke with Commissioner W. Todd Bassett, and he is the national commander of the Salvation Army. I began by asking him how much of their donations were collected at Target.

COMMISSIONER W. TODD BASSETT, NATIONAL COMMANDER, SALVATION ARMY: Actually, we have not been able to get to the heart of the problem, other than the fact that they said if they allow the Salvation Army, they have to allow everyone else who asks. And so we had to accept that decision.

PILGRIM: You were getting a considerable amount of proceeds from the positions there in front of Target stores, weren't you?

BASSETT: Actually, we raised approximately 10 percent of our Christmas Kettle income in front of Target stores.

PILGRIM: Now a few companies have stepped into the breach, haven't they?

BASSETT: Wonderfully. We are so grateful for the way people have responded.

PILGRIM: One of these is Wal-Mart. Tell us a little bit about their response.

BASSETT: Well, we were overwhelmed with Wal-Mart, who has always allowed us to stand at their stores. Came to us last week and said that they would match up to $1 million that was raised in front of Target -- Wal-Mart stores during the last week before Christmas.

PILGRIM: There's been a considerable public outcry over Target's move. Are you surprised about that?

BASSETT: Well, frankly, I can't say that I was surprised, because this has happened in the past, where people have -- or stores have tried to exclude the Army. And our official position, both in this case and in the past, has been that we are not going to do anything in retaliation, and we have not in this situation.

But as soon as the word got out to the public, it has overwhelmed us in this case, the manner in which people, organizations, governments, other stores have just responded overwhelmingly to come to our defense. And they've done so not only with donations and allowing us to stand, but volunteers have come along and said, We will help you one way or another.

PILGRIM: Isn't that great?

You know, the Salvation Army has a wonderful long history, and it does create nostalgia for many people, because they remember it from their childhood. In fact, Booz Allen just came up with a list of the 10 most enduring institutions, and the Salvation Army was on it. But many of us don't know exactly what those funds pay for out there in the world. Tell us a little bit about your current mission.

BASSETT: Well, in addition to over 5 million people who receive assistance at Christmastime with toys and food and clothing and those things associated with Christmas, every moment of every day, 365 days out of the year, there are people sleeping in our shelters or our transitional programs. People are receiving food, either through emergency assistance or at our soup kitchens. At time of disaster, the Salvation Army was on the scene in Florida, in San Diego, throughout the country. Along with the Red Cross, the Salvation Army is at the front of disaster.

Now, this is in addition to summer camping programs for children, 350 boys and girls club, community centers across the nation. So that the myriad of activity and program in addition to the religious and spiritual program of the Salvation Army.

PILGRIM: Well, we certainly wish you every success with this current Christmas season, and your fund-raising. And we wish you the best of the season and merry Christmas. Thanks very much for joining us, Commissioner Bassett.

BASSETT: And merry Christmas to you, Kitty. Thank you.

PILGRIM: Well, as we reported earlier, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today made a surprise visit to our troops in Iraq.

And joining me now to talk about that and some other issues are two top political journalists. From Washington, Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times," and Roger Simon of "U.S. News and World Report."

Merry Christmas, gentlemen.

RON BROWNSTEIN, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Merry Christmas. ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Merry Christmas, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Let's talk about the Rumsfeld visit. And he was pretty honest. He said he didn't want to paint a pretty picture, because it isn't. Now, is this a moment of crisis, do you think, in the Iraq equation for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld?

SIMON: Well, I think Donald Rumsfeld was trying to accomplish a number of things, one, to boost the morale of the troops, which is an honorable thing to do, and it's a good thing to do, and two, to do a little image repair for himself, which is understandable.

And I think the trip was fine, but I just don't think that these high-profile politicians and officeholders should continue them. It takes an enormous amount of men, materiel, and planning just to protect these guys. And you could bet every armored vehicle that Secretary Rumsfeld rode in and was surrounded by could be better used to protect our troops elsewhere.

BROWNSTEIN: I am going to disagree a little bit on that front, Kitty. I think that it is important for this sort of signal to be sent to the troops of concern at the highest level of the government, and there really is no better way than for it to be delivered in person.

You know, Donald -- I think it was appropriate for him to go. Now, does it solve his problems here at home? I would say, yes and no. Donald Rumsfeld was really facing criticism along two totally separate tracks.

One is style, the question of whether he has been sufficiently concerned about the welfare of the troops. It's the issue that was opened up by his responses in Kuwait. He has had a very distinctive, imperious, tough, sometimes condescending style throughout his career as a very effective bureaucrat in Washington and senior government official. It worked against him, and I think this was an effort to sort of modify or soften his image.

The other line of criticism, though, is on the substance of what is happening in Iraq, and whether the Pentagon has efficiently planned and prepared for the kind of war we find ourselves in. And I don't think this trip is really going to change the equation, with more Republican senators and conservative activists in particular, raising questions about his performance.

PILGRIM: Well, let me pick up what Roger said (UNINTELLIGIBLE). In terms of the equipment, he did say that he acknowledged the equipment shortage, and said he's going to ask Congress for more money. Came up again in a sort of kinder context this time. Roger, do you think he'll get that money? And will the equipment shortage be improved?

SIMON: Kitty, he's going to get whatever he wants. I mean, the cornucopia is endless for -- at this point for the support of our troops. But Rumsfeld's raising of this issue, and his rather cold response to the soldier in Kuwait who asked, Why don't we have enough armored vehicles? and he said, When you go to war, you go to war with the army you have, I thought was not only a bad response in terms of not really being sensitive to the issue, but it also raised the key issue of, why did we go to war when we went to war?

And Rumsfeld was -- had made critical mistakes on that point. We didn't have to go to war when we went to war. There were no weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein was not threatening the United States or his neighbors. And that intelligence error was in part Rumsfeld's error.

So to throw that back in the face of the soldiers was wrong.

But just back a little bit to disagree slightly with Ron's disagreement about how helpful these...

BROWNSTEIN: A disagreement of the second order, yes.

SIMON: ... how just -- how helpful this trip is for Rumsfeld. I think Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary Rumsfeld, has to make one resolution for the new year, and that's to stop making this war about him. I mean, when we're still counting the bodies in Mosul, he is having a press conference saying that he feels terrible that people don't like him, and that he's not sensitive, and he really is.

You know, you just wanted to grab him and say, Mr. Secretary, get over yourself.

PILGRIM: Well, let me (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMON: This is not about you. It's about the troops.

PILGRIM: Yes. Let me just step forward and say he did talk about anyone who participates in this will understand later how historic it is. He did take a very big-picture view of this.

BROWNSTEIN: And, you know (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMON: He's a lightning rod, and he keeps directing the lightning back at himself...

BROWNSTEIN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMON: ... and he's standing too close to the president for that to be a viable political strategy.

PILGRIM: Well, let's let Ron respond.

BROWNSTEIN: That's a very good point. But I think I was struck today at the similarity between his line of argument and language, and the president's in his acceptance speech at the convention last summer, where he tried to basically argue that we needed to take a very long view of the situation in Iraq, comparable to looking at Germany after World War II, and basically suggesting this is a process that may take a very long time to produce progress, but that in the end, as you said, we will be glad we did this. We'll see. The message from all the senior officials this past week has been, I think, very sobering, whether it's Secretary Rumsfeld or outgoing Secretary Powell, or even the president. They've all been basically telling the country that we're not making as much progress as we hoped at building an Iraqi force, and that the election is not going to be an immediate turning point in the level of violence.

Tough days ahead, is what they're counseling.

SIMON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

PILGRIM: Gentleman, we have to call it there. I'm afraid we could debate this endlessly tonight. But instead, we'll just wish each other merry Christmas and call it a draw.

SIMON: Same to you.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

BROWNSTEIN: And thank you, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Roger Simon and Ron Brownstein, thank you.

Still ahead, a preview of what we're working on for next week. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us on Monday, and we'll tell you about one U.S. company keeping American jobs right here at home.

Plus, former INS agent Michael Cutler on our immigration and border crisis.

And former CIA senior analyst Flynt Leverest (ph) on the priorities ahead for the new director of national intelligence.

Good night from New York, and merry Christmas.

Anderson Cooper 360 is next.

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