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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Seven Soldiers Killed by Roadside Bomb; U.S. Steps Aside to Let U.N. Run Relief Efforts
Aired January 06, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, worldwide the United States being praised for its aid and assistance to South Asia's tsunami victims. Why then, is the Bush administration sacrificing the opportunity to enhance our international image and instead allow the United Nations to step in to take the credit?
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Now, I think, things are up and running to the point where we can work within the U.N. communities.
DOBBS: Freshman Democratic Senator Ken Salazar won a surprise election victory in Colorado. I'll ask him why he wants to allow millions of illegal aliens to work in this country.
The wage gap between men and women is narrowing. But before you cheer, wait until you learn why the gender gap is closing.
And homeland insecurity. A blunt warning tonight about the failures of the Homeland Security Department. A former top homeland security official will tell us why Washington is ignoring border and port security and leaving 300 million Americans vulnerable to terrorist attack.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Thursday, January 6. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news out of Iraq. Seven American soldiers have been killed in an attack in northwest Baghdad.
Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, even the heavily armored Bradley fighting vehicle was not enough to protect these soldiers from Task Force Baghdad from a powerful roadside bomb that hit their vehicle about 6 p.m. local time in Iraq.
It's the latest attack from insurgents, who have killed nearly 100 people this week, mostly Iraqi policemen and Iraqi citizens.
This attack also came on a day when a U.S. Marine was killed in al-Anbar province and on a day when the deputy U.S. commander of forces in Iraq predicted that assaults would only increase as election day draws near.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. THOMAS METZ, U.S. ARMY: I expect an increase in violence as the elections approach. I expect the thugs and terrorists to make every effort to stop the elections by targeting candidates and polling sites and by attempting to intimidate the Iraqi people.
These attempts show that the enemy of Iraq are working only to squander Iraq's potential, hinder reconstruction and withhold freedom from the people of Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: General Metz said there's no contemplation of postponing the elections scheduled for January 30, saying that would only give what he called the thugs and terrorists more time to practice their intimidation.
Iraq has to -- extended a state of emergency across most of the country except for part of some of the Kurdish areas for another 30 days.
These deaths, Lou, bring the U.S. death toll in Iraq now to about 1,350, more than 1,000 of those killed in hostile action, and the number of wounded of U.S. soldiers and Marines is now over 10,000 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. We'll be going back to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon for more on this developing story.
And I'll be talking with General David Grange about this escalating insurgency in Iraq as insurgents and terrorists are trying to disrupt preparations for the Iraqi elections to be held at the end of the month.
Turning now to the tsunami disaster, health officials are warning that the number of people killed in the disaster could double to more than 300,000. The World Health Organization says many survivors could die from cholera and dysentery unless they receive clean water and other supplies.
American and other world leaders today promised to work together to make certain that tsunami victims receive the help they need as soon as possible. John King reports from the Indonesian capital of Jakarta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sri Lanka to one side, the International Monetary Fund to the other, the United States in the middle and in the leadership role as the world responds to the tsunami disaster. Set aside, at least for the moment, what has become standard fare at national gathering, criticism about U.S. policy in Iraq and complaints that, as likeable a figure as Colin Powell may be, his boss seems, to many in the world, to consider multilateralism a dirty word.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have not had one single discussion about Iraq. This has been the tsunami.
KING: All tsunami and, at least so far, considerable praise for the front line U.S. role in the response. A commitment of $350 million to the relief effort. And not counted in that, a U.S. military contribution that includes war ships launching helicopters to deliver desperately needed food, water and medicine.
Consider this from the United Nations official who initially suggested the United States and other wealthy nations were being stingy.
JAN EGELAND, UNITED NATIONS: And we're very, very happy.
KING: U.S. military personnel carrying sick children in the country with the world's largest Muslim population, and former President Bush helping raise money he hopes does more than just bring aid to tsunami survivors.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am convinced that in the Muslim world, for example, they will see that we have a heart and that we don't discriminate because of somebody's religion.
KING: Snapshots of America to, at least for a moment, supercede a much more controversial image.
Anti-American protests are hardly uncommon in Indonesia. Mr. Powell, in fact, is staying in a hotel bombed 17 months ago by terrorists believed to be targeting it because of its American affiliation.
Still for all the smiles, the U.S. role in tsunami relief has not been controversy free. A top U.S. relief official angered Paris by saying the French traditionally are not major players in humanitarian relief efforts.
And some at the United Nations saw an Iraq-style disagreement brewing when the White House announced it was forming a coalition of its own to lead a tsunami relief effort.
But Secretary Powell on Thursday announced that so-called core group is folding. He says it got the aid pipeline up and running but that the United Nations is now ready to take the lead.
(on camera) Others suggested it was proof the group was a mistake to begin with, but that by disbanding it the Bush White House has now left the United Nations with no one else to blame if the relief effort falters.
John King, CNN, Jakarta, Indonesia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And critics say the United States is making a huge mistake by allowing the United Nations to take the lead in the relief effort. Those critics say the Bush administration is missing a rare opportunity to enhance the image of the United States overseas, and at the same time, win diplomatic favor in a strategically important region.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The United States front and center with 18 U.S. military ships, 90 helicopters in the region. The military alone is spending $6 million a day. U.S. aid is pouring in. The humanitarian commitment of the United States is plainly visible and unquestioned.
And no one thinks the United States should be hardheaded, looking for gain out of tragedy. But some say letting the United Nations coordinate efforts may be an opportunity squandered.
JONATHAN LAURENCE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It is really about improving the image of the U.S. in an area of the world where the image is execrable. The image is of the U.S. as an occupying power.
PILGRIM: The United States is spending $671 million in public diplomacy, some of that money on improving its image in the Muslim world.
The U.S. State Department launched a splashy $15 million ad campaign called "shared values" that drew criticism, an exercise in what critics call soft power, in contrast to the hard power of the military.
After an initial stumble in not being quick enough after the tsunami, the United States pledged $350 million, publicly called for private citizens to contribute, and sent Secretary of State Colin Powell to the region with Jeb Bush, taking the lead on joining core countries to galvanize the efforts.
JUDITH BARNETT, PRESIDENT, THE BARNETT GROUP: What we need to provide is the leadership. The leadership is what other countries have seen us as lacking. Now we have a coalition. Now we have all kinds of financial support from other countries. And yet our leadership is backing down.
It's just very confusing foreign policy. It's a very big opportunity that we could have done well at.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell today said the core group of nations helped catalyze the international response. The execution of the effort is still very much in flux, however, and the success of the mission is now in the hands of the U.N. and not the United States -- Lou.
DOBBS: A peculiar decision on the part of the United States, which as you reported, taking the lead role here, providing, through its -- through the military, tremendous support and logistical help, operational help. This is -- this is going to be a controversial decision for some time.
PILGRIM: I think so, Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
There is new video tonight showing the very moment the tsunami struck the coast of Thailand just north of Phuket Island. The wave, as it races ashore, the video showing the incredible speed of the tsunamis as they charged toward the coastline.
A man on the beach was the first person to be swept away. He was not the only victim, of course. A large number of people on this beach, Thais and foreign tourists, were killed in the very same area.
This videotape was shot by the owner of a restaurant overlooking the beach. He says he tried to warn tourists to flee for their lives. But the tourists on the beach were unable to hear his warnings.
Please join us here on CNN tonight for a prime time special, "SAVING THE CHILDREN," our special report co-anchored by Christiane Amanpour and Anderson Cooper. They'll be reporting the stories of the devastating tsunami through the eyes of some of the youngest victims.
That's our prime time special, "SAVING THE CHILDREN," tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 Pacific here on CNN.
Still ahead tonight, more on the bomb attack that killed seven of our soldiers in Iraq. I'll also be talking with General David Grange about this escalating violence in Iraq and whether we can contain the insurgency.
And Democrats say he's a good guy, a solid guy. So why are they grilling Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales? We'll have that story for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senate Democrats today blasted Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales at a confirmation hearing. The Democrats criticized the White House counsel for his role in shaping a Bush administration policy blamed for abuse of Iraqi prisoners.
Kelli Arena reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Judge Gonzales, would you now stand? KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even before he was asked a single question, Alberto Gonzales made a preemptive strike.
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I am and will remain deeply committed to ensuring that the United States government complies with all of its legal obligations as it fights the war on terror.
ARENA: But Senate Democrats accused Gonzales of trying to skirt U.S. and international laws by supporting a 2002 Justice Department memo which said the president, in the war on terror, "is not always bound by international laws forbidding torture."
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Does the president have the authority, in your judgment, to exercise commander in chief override and immunize acts of torture?
GONZALES: With all due respect, Senator, the president has said we're not going to engage in torture. That is a hypothetical question.
ARENA: Democrats allege the Justice memo recently withdrawn also said only the most severe types of torture were prohibited and, therefore, is partly to blame for alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: You were warned by Secretary Powell -- Secretary Powell -- and other top military leaders that ignoring our longstanding traditions and rules would lead to abuse and undermine our military culture, and that is what has happened.
ARENA: Even supportive Republicans voiced concerns.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: When you start looking at torture statutes and you look at ways around the spirit of the law that -- you're losing the moral high ground.
ARENA: Gonzales said he was sickened by the photos, but refused to give a legal opinion, saying it might prejudice a possible criminal case if he is confirmed as attorney general.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: You're in no way jeopardizing a future case. That's malarkey. Pure malarkey. So we're looking for candor, old buddy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Despite those attacks and questions about whether he is too close to the president, the son of Mexican immigrants is widely expected to be confirmed as the first Hispanic attorney general -- Lou.
DOBBS: Senator Biden, candor, old buddy. There's so much of that rampant in Washington, D.C., these days. Thank you very much.
Kelli Arena from Washington.
The White House tonight is welcoming its newest resident. Miss Beasley is a Scottish terrier puppy the President Bush gave the first lady for her birthday late last year. The puppy has spent the past several weeks with is breeder in New Jersey. Miss Beasley is, if you're into genealogy, the niece of the Bushes' other Scottish terrier, Barney.
How the latest deadly attack on American soldiers in Iraq will effect U.S. strategy against the insurgents and terrorists. General David Grange will be with us.
And how a bolo tie-wearing lifelong Democrat beat a popular beer- brewing Republican in a red state? Newly elected Senator Ken Salazar will join me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More now on the breaking news out of Iraq. Seven American soldiers killed in a roadside bombing in Baghdad.
Let's turn now to General David Grange.
General, this insurgency is escalating in violence. Every day of this new year, at least one American soldier or Marine has been killed. What can be done to end this escalating violence, to bring order and control?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's going to increase even more, Lou, all the way up to the end of the month, and, right now, what the coalition forces are doing are increasing the offensive operations. It's the only thing they can do. They've got to keep the terrorist insurgents moving off their feet just as much as they're doing to the coalition forces.
DOBBS: General, I'm not sure that's good enough. The fact of the matter is that we have been in Iraq now for almost two years.
The violence is escalating. Our intelligence, obviously, is not working. Or we could be dealing, it seems to me at least, far more effectively in preventing these deaths.
We do not either have enough troops, enough intelligence, enough material or enough -- an appropriate strategy to be dealing with the need to bring absolute security here.
Or is it possible that it's all of the above? What can be done?
GRANGE: Well, you hit a couple key factors. One is the intelligence. The enemy has the advantage on intelligence. There's no doubt about it.
There's not enough Iraqi citizens reporting on, turning in insurgents in the area. If there's 30,000 insurgents, you would think they'd be rounding up much more.
The other is there's not enough Iraqi forces trained that are credible, that have good leadership, that will stay and fight. The initiative to put American advisers with these Iraqi forces is a great start, and it will make a difference.
But you're going to always have spikes in this. It's not going to just totally taper off. It's going to go up and down for a long time.
DOBBS: General, I suppose my reaction to that is we heard the violence would escalate in the runup to the hand-over of -- to the interim government. Then we heard that the violence would escalate afterwards. And then we've heard that the violence will escalate. If our military leaders, the Pentagon, understand what will happen, why in the world cannot they deal with it and forestall it?
GRANGE: Well, it's -- it is a tall order, and insurgencies are the toughest fight you can get into. When you don't have lines on a map, when you don't have conventional forces, it's a very tough, wary animal -- enemy, and it's just tough to go after them.
DOBBS: Another tough part of what is happening right now -- General Helmley, the -- James Helmley, the head of the Reserves, as you know, has said that with the current policies in place, in his judgment, the Reserves are degenerating, are in prospect of degenerating into what he called a broken force. How can we permit this to occur?
GRANGE: We cannot, and some of the policies that he's talking about that are antiquated, some of the Cold War policies must be changed. They must be changed to the reality of what we face today on the battlefield.
DOBBS: And one of the realities is that we simply need more men and women in uniform. Isn't that correct?
GRANGE: Well, what the Reserve commander's talking about is if we have a major war right now with everything else that's going on -- humanitarian relief, Iraq, Afghanistan, war on terrorists --= it's going to be really tough to take it down. Now will the U.S. win? Absolutely. But to sustain a fight, especially one that becomes maybe another guerrilla warfare, very hard to do.
DOBBS: And what is the military, what is the Pentagon, what is the White House doing about this? Because what General Helmley is talking about, you have also raised some serious issues and called for changes and reform and a new way of thinking. Why isn't there a response on the part of the United States government to what are evident cries for change?
GRANGE: Well, I don't know. Some of these changes are going to take place, but, as far as I'm concerned, they're a little slow. This is not a spike in commitment to conflict. This is a plateau that we're going to live with for quite a while, and something must be done. DOBBS: General David Grange, we thank you for being here, as always.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Many of you wrote in about our reports on the Mexican government's newly published guide to help its citizens cross the U.S. border illegally. We'll have your thoughts on that issue and more coming up.
And newly elected Democratic Senator Ken Salazar will be our guest. Why does he want to allow millions of illegal aliens to work in this country? I'll be asking him exactly that.
And a shocking decision. Why a mother who was convicted of murdering her children could go free.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: In a moment, I'll be talking to one of two Hispanic senators elected to the new Congress. We'll be talking about defeating a Republican in a red state and his plans to deal with the millions of illegal aliens in this country.
First, these stories.
A Texas appellate court today reversed the murder conviction of Andrea Yates. Yates convicted in 2002. She drowned her five children in a bathtub. The court ordered a new trial for Yates citing false testimony from a prosecution witness.
Tonight, a deadly winter storm has moved across the plains and now into New England. The storm, carrying freezing rain and snow, is being blamed for 16 deaths. The storm has also knocked out power to nearly half a million homes and businesses across the Midwest.
Border officials say the number of illegal aliens detained on our border with Mexico has risen almost 13 percent over the past three months. Nearly 200,000 were arrested crossing the border during that period. But some border agents say the rise in arrests simply shows more Mexicans were crossing the border after President Bush announced a plan to legalize illegal Mexican workers.
We return now to the developing story of the deaths of seven of our soldiers in a bomb attack in Baghdad.
Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has new developments -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, we have some new information courtesy of our Baghdad bureau about what happened to these seven soldiers who were killed when their Bradley fighting vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb. The bomb was so powerful, it flipped the 50,000-pound-plus Bradley upside down and into a ditch. And then the attempts to get to the U.S. soldiers were hampered by another explosion and a fire, according to a 1st Cavalry Division spokesman.
Again, this shows how powerful these roadside bombs are, and even in a heavily armored vehicle, such as a Bradley, you can have a significant loss of life. The only thing that would have more armor on it is an M1A1 tank, and even U.S. soldiers have been killed in those.
Again, this comes as U.S. commanders in Iraq have warned about an increase of violence leading up to the elections and in a week where nearly 100 have been killed, most of those Iraqi policemen -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Turning now to politics. My guest won a closely contested Senate race in Colorado in November. Senator Ken Salazar the only Democrat to gain a Senate seat for the party in a state that voted red, voting for President Bush, joining us tonight from Capitol Hill.
Senator, first, congratulations on your election and good to see you.
SEN. KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO: Thank you, Lou. It's good to see you. Thank you.
DOBBS: The Bush administration's been clear about its agenda: Social Security reform, tax code reform, immigration reform. Are you with the president on those issues?
SALAZAR: You know, we need to get more specifics from the president on where he's going with all of those issues. You know, I'm open at this point in time to listen to proposals or concerns that I have about Social Security and where he's headed with that, but -- I'm open and we'll wait to see what comes out specifically on those issues before I make up my mind.
DOBBS: And in terms of representing the people of your state, a red state, if you will, you won a clear victory, but a surprising victory in the state. To what do you attribute your success?
SALAZAR: Well, you know, I was not surprised by the victory. I won three statewide elections, which include this U.S. senate race, and I won it by a 5 percent victory margin, which I think is a significant margin.
And I think the reason that I won in Colorado was because the people of the state know who I am and they know the work that I have done on their behalf in the past, and I think that, for them, they had trust in me that I would come here to Washington, D.C., and that I would be a strong, clear and independent voice for the people of Colorado. DOBBS: A strong and independent voice. Let's talk about one of the places where your voice has been heard, and that's on the issue of, if you will, legalizing illegal alien workers in your state. Your reasoning as to why you would support the guest worker program?
SALAZAR: Lou, immigration reform is something that is obviously needed in our country and something we need to work on. I think the principles, to me, that are most important is, one, we need to make sure that we have enforceable borders because otherwise we won't have the right kind of homeland security. Secondly, make sure that we're protecting American jobs for American workers. And thirdly, I think that Mexico also needs to deal with the issue. It's not good enough for Mexico to be doing what it's doing now, which is essentially sending a lot of its people across the borders to the United States. I think ultimately, it is something that the United States and Mexico have to work on together to make sure that there are opportunities provided to people who live in Mexico so that they're not being pulled across the border to the economic opportunity here in this country.
DOBBS: Are you offended, Senator, by the fact that the Mexican government would print, publish and distribute basically a guidebook to encourage its citizens and to facilitate their becoming illegal aliens in this country?
SALAZAR: You know, I am not aware that they have done so. Assuming that what you say is correct, Lou...
DOBBS: You can always take it to the bank if I say it, Senator.
SALAZAR: OK. Well, if you say it, let's assume that it's true, I don't think that it's appropriate for the Mexican government to be doing that.
DOBBS: Why do you suppose our government is being absolutely silent on the issue?
SALAZAR: You know, I expect that what's happening right now is, you know, the Bush administration is still in the process of getting its program together, that it's going to present to the Congress this first session. You know, I've had several meetings with the president since I've been in Washington. And he has talked about immigration reform as something he wants to tackle in this next Congress. And I hope it does happen. And I hope it is based on some of those principles that I've articulated.
DOBBS: Principles -- the principle of border security. One of the issues, of course, is "TIME" magazine reported this summer that an estimated 3 million illegal aliens will enter the country, Bear Stearns, in a recent study, estimates the number of illegal aliens living in the country, somewhere between 18 million and 20 million. Why in the world can't this government carry out enforcement of its laws and deal with the issues before it? Is it because some of the proponents of open borders are trying to style this as a racist issue? And I said racist, not racial?
SALAZAR: You know, I don't know. I imagine there's lots of motivations out there. But I do know that for a fact, one of the things we need to do is need to put more resources into making sure that our immigrational laws are, in fact, enforced. That's part of what is going to have to happen if we're going to deal with the issue of immigration effectively. In addition, we know that it's not only Mexico where people come from to this country illegally. They come from all over the world, including Canada, including other countries, and Latin America. And part of our overall agenda is trying to work with those governments so they can create economic opportunity for people in their own country so that they don't -- so they aren't pulled across the border here to the United States where they seek economic opportunity.
DOBBS: You're absolutely right, Senator. And couldn't be more right. But I do think it's important we also note that Mexico sends just about 10 percent of its population to the United States as a result of its policies as well as our lack of policy. Senator Salazar, we want to congratulate you again. We thank you for being with us. Hope you'll come back soon.
SALAZAR: I will. And part of what I have talked to the president about, and I've talked to people like Mel Martinez and others is that we really need to look at the hemispheric issues in the western hemisphere. And that will include trying to deal with some of these issues that are tough issues like the immigration issue we face in this country.
DOBBS: Outstanding. Again, Senator, thanks for being here. All the best to you.
SALAZAR: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: The Department of Homeland Security today said a quarter of a million people from El Salvador can remain in this country 18 months longer than had been originally approved. Almost a quarter of a million Salvadoran nationals, both legal and illegal, are living and working in the country. They are all eligible for temporary protected status while their country recovers from a series of earthquakes back in 2001. Those here since 2001 are all eligible.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts. Turning to Armin Litchfield, Connecticut. "Immigration is great but illegal immigration is even better. You pay no taxes, you get a driver's license, a free driver's license and medical benefits. That's a lot better than what I had to go through as a legal immigrant. Now I know why they call it the American Dream."
And Marcia in Newbury, New Hampshire. "I'm astounded about the news item regarding the "handbook" for illegal aliens coming from Mexico. Why is our president trying to appease the Mexican government after this blatant act?"
And Bill in Scottsdale, Arizona. "Thank goodness the Mexican government published the migration guide, it was the best thing that could have happened in order to draw our attention to that government's pathetic position on illegal immigration into this country at times Mr. Fox telling us how to handle his people in this country illegally and our need for reform here. However it is shameful that our government has stated no position on the document."
We love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Next, why some manufacturers are insulting your intelligence with their products.
And jackpot justice. Why some states, including California, are hoping plaintiffs win big-damage awards.
And new evidence, the gender gap in pay is narrowing. Wages for working men and women in this country, approaching parity. We'll tell you why that isn't a good-news story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight in our special report jackpot justice. we focus on some states that are cashing in on huge punitive damages awarded to plaintiffs. California is the latest state to attempt it. So far, however, the plan has been something of a failure for California. Casey Wian has the story from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger unveiled a plan to overhaul his state's government Wednesday night. In part because it faces a crippling $8 billion budget deficit. One reason for the shortfall is the failure of Schwarzenegger's plan to divert some of the money plaintiffs win in civil lawsuits to the state treasury. Last year, his budget included a provision allowing his government to keep 75 percent of civil punitive damage awards. He estimated it would raise nearly half a billion dollars for California's treasury this fiscal year. More than halfway through that period, the state has not collected a single penny.
JOHN SULLIVAN, PRESIDENT, CIVIL JUSTICE ASSN.: There was a general feeling that because it was a grand experiment and people didn't really know how it was going to work, that it was safe to put a sunset clause in it, which runs out in the middle of 2006.
WIAN: So lawyers are simply delaying cases, ensuring they won't be final until after next year, and preventing the state from collecting. Eight other states have split punitive damage laws. Some divert the money to the state treasury, others to victims' compensation funds. The reasoning behind them is this, individual plaintiffs are already paid for their actual losses, injuries and pain and suffering under compensatory damages. Punitive damages are intended to penalize the wrongdoer and protect society from things like faulty product designs, deceptive business practices, or negligent behavior.
CATHERINE SHARKEY, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL: The idea that one individual plaintiff should get a huge windfall in an individual case because the defendant's conduct, for example, has harmed many other individuals or has been particularly aggregaous, has been an affront to society does not seem right to me. However, in practice, these schemes can raise some phony issues.
WIAN: For example, they may actually do more to encourage monetary settlements than discourage lawyers from seeking big punitive awards.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): With tort reform now on the national agenda, other states are considering tapping into punitive damage awards. Perhaps they'll learn from California's mistakes -- Lou.
DOBBS: Starting to look a bit like a lottery, something like jackpot justice. What is the sense there? Is it that this is never going to work in California, or will they just try to improve their chances, if you will?
WIAN: Well, it's got another year and a half to run, this program, the sunset clause expires in about 18 months. So they'll see how it goes. They can reinstitute it after that time period. Right now, though, it doesn't look like it's working well. The lawyers have figured out ways to get around it.
DOBBS: Imagine that. Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian from Los Angeles.
Our increasingly litigious society has led some manufacturers to place truly absurd warning labels on their products. An anti-lawsuit organization in Michigan holds the wacky warning label contest every year to call attention to one of the side effects of frivolous lawsuits, so-called. This year's winner, a toilet brush with a label that reads do not use for personal hygiene. Another top finisher we liked was a scooter bearing the warning this product moves when used.
Now tonight's poll question. Do you think the United States should have turned over the lead in the tsunami relief effort to the United Nations? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later in the show.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have lost their jobs to cheap foreign competition, both in this country and in cheap labor markets overseas. While some workers have been able to find new jobs, they often are forced to settle for lower wages just to survive. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris Parkes is a 47-year-old electronics engineer in San Francisco. His life has been a roller coaster over the last four years. Downsized from his job, then unemployed. A stint in nursing school, and then finally landing a job working for the state government. A far cry from the 1980s and '90s when there were plenty of U.S. tech jobs.
CHRIS PARKES, ELECTRONICS ENGINEER: I feel like those jobs are being lost. I feel like they're being offshored. I feel like -- I just feel like it's not the field that you can go into and expect that, you know, you're going to have any kind of security or retirement. And those are big concerns for me at my age.
SYLVESTER: The median income levels for electrical and computer engineers fell for the first time in 31 years according to a new survey by the industry. The Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers blames offshoring and the increased use of guest worker visas.
GERARD ALPHONSE, IEEE-USA: When somebody loses one's job my guess is that it's very difficult for that person to get a similar job in the same field.
SYLVESTER: The number of manufacturing, engineering and other jobs typically dominated by men is shrinking. And industries like nursing and education, traditionally dominated by women, are growing. The result is a shrinking gap in the wages between men and women. In the late 1990s, the median female worker earned 76 cents for every $1 earned by a male. In 2004, women were earning 81 cents of every $1.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: We don't necessarily want to see the gender gap closing because men's wages get hammered. We'd like to see, I guess, women's wages and men's growing a pace with women catching up to men.
SYLVESTER: Case in point, Chris Parkes. His government salary is half of what it was in the private sector. And he could be laid off again because of the California budget crises.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): The economic policy institute says that have the wages of men continued at its previous pace, the wage gap would have remained the same. That leads economists to conclude the only reason the wage gap narrowed was because men's wages were flat or declined, not because women's wages increased dramatically -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much.
As Lisa Sylvester reported here last night, an astonishing new study that found as many as 20 million illegal aliens in this country, and Senator Salazar and I discussed that. That report also found these millions are now an established part of an underground economy that is approaching $1 trillion. My guest tonight, a co-author of the study, Bob Justich, a senior managing director of Bear Stearns and joins us now. Thanks for being here.
First, why a Wall Street firm doing a study on illegal aliens.
BOB JUSTICH, BEAR STEARNS: Well, Lou, we look at employment numbers every month. And we get excited if they're off by 100,000. Imagine the implications of payroll numbers or the total numbers, cumulative numbers being off by the millions.
DOBBS: The idea that 20 million live here, I mean, that is a number -- that's the highest number that I've seen suggested by anyone. You did that by trying to reconcile a number of other data points, if you will, with the Census Bureau. The Bureau has to be wildly off.
JUSTICH: Right. Well, it's common perception that the census process is very difficult. There was a recent study out of the University of London citing all the problems with a lot of census processes. We looked at a lot of bottom-up data, uses of services, school enrollment, housing permits, and we think there's a lot more data out there that would support this notion.
DOBBS: Why would you have to go out to get this? Why isn't the United States government, that has the responsibility to do so, why isn't it coming up with the labor information, the statistical information, and speaking candidly and straightforwardly with the American people about the size mentioned, the magnitude of this problem?
JUSTICH: Well, Lou, that's a very good question. And I don't know if it's a conspiracy or if it is just the fact that government lags reality, which is quite normal.
DOBBS: I think that's a wonderful way to say it. Government lagging reality. But even governments should notice that 3 million people cross our borders illegally each year, don't you think?
JUSTICH: Well, the irony, we've talked to close to 100 immigrants and small business owners, and it's almost as if everybody in other countries knows the magnitude of it except for us.
DOBBS: And with that in context, you suggest that illegal aliens are a bigger part of the problem than outsourcing, for example, in terms of job creation and employment. Now, today, we got the news, a surprise upsurge in the number of claims for new benefits for unemployment, surged by 40,000. Estimating the number of outsourced jobs at about 400,000 for last year to cheap foreign labor markets. What do you mean when you say it's bigger?
JUSTICH: Well, Lou, it's no secret that people come to this country for work. And an astonishing statistic is that 96 percent of undocumented workers participate in the labor force. An incredible amount. They're coming here for a very good reason, and they're coming here because there are jobs available to them. And they're being given jobs that are -- that they're making good money at.
DOBBS: We've got about 15 seconds. What's the policy's solution?
JUSTICH: The policy solution is they'd better get a handle on the right number first before they make recommendations. You cannot just take a population the size of New York state and ask everybody to leave Monday morning. So better get closer to the right number, and there's been some tremendous benefits from this surge. The housing market, for example, has surged because of the population surge.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Good to have you with us.
JUSTICH: Thank you very much. DOBBS: Turning the tide. How the owners of one business are carrying on in the wake of the tsunami disaster. Homeland insecurity. One former homeland security official says this country is not nearly as safe as it should be. He's our guest.
And stone cold. Who one Hollywood director blames for his artistic failure.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Turning now to a critically important issue. My next guest is a blunt critic of the Department of Homeland Security. Clark Kent Ervin served nearly 2 years as inspector general of the department. And says that despite improvements in security since September 11, serious gaps remain. The department, he says, has failed to live up to its promise to improve intelligence as an example. He joins us tonight from Washington, D.C.
Good to have you with us.
CLARK KENT ERVIN: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS, FRM. INSPECTOR GENERAL DHS: Clark, let's begin where I left off with Senator Salazar, and my previous guest, and that is the fact that as many as 3 million illegal aliens are estimated to be crossing our borders every, every single year. How in the world can we even pretend we have homeland security? How can our elected officials pretend it if our borders are that porous?
ERVIN: Well, it's a very, very serious problem, and the department has a long way to go, Lou, before it solves it. One of the issues, of course, is the financial condition of the department. The particular part of the department, it's called ice, that tracks down the illegal aliens, has a budgetary shortfall. It doesn't know how much money it has and as a consequence it's had to install a hiring freeze. It's put a ban on the use of cell phones and the paying of confidential informants. So this part of the department, among other parts, are dysfunctional.
DOBBS: Dysfunctional, and now crying out for leadership. As you point out a third of the top 20 officials of homeland security, there's going to be a turnover. What should the president do about it?
ERVIN: Well, I'm hopeful that this will be an opportunity to install a senior management team that has experience and expertise. And what this is, the department is a merger an acquisition, a start- up and divestiture. 22 separate components that are disparate and to some degree dysfunctional. We need a seasoned business manager, and also ideally, someone who knows his or her way around the powers in Washington so that the department gets the budgetary resources and the statutory authority that it needs to get the job done.
DOBBS: So there is a huge structural issue, a huge management issue, a huge, obviously, border security issue. Our ports, have we done anything at all to improve substantially the security there, in your opinion?
ERVIN: Well, there have been improvements, but gaps remain. For example, one of the things the department touts is the container security initiative. That, in theory, makes sense, and the idea is to push the border out, to have inspections conducted at foreign ports before the cargo gets to the United States.
The problem is, it's unclear what role American inspectors play in these foreign countries. How active can they be? And what degree of inspection to the foreign inspectors carry out? And even if there is an intact inspection at the foreign port before it sails to the United States, what measures are in place to make sure that the cargo is not tampered with en route?
DOBBS: What do you recommend that we do now? Because as you have basically agreed here, without secure borders, we are vulnerable to terrorist attack, all 300 million of us in this country. Without secure ports, we're vulnerable. And with all of the discussion in Washington, there seems to be a basically, if not a pretense, at least a failure to recognize that border security is homeland security. What in the world are we going to do?
ERVIN: Well, the good news is that this problem, the problem of homeland security, is soluble. We know what the answer is. In brief, it boils down to management, leadership, equipment and money. And all of those things are within the power of the United States government to provide.
Again, I'm hopeful that this new year, the new presidential term, the prospect of new leadership at the department will provide an opportunity to correct the areas in which the department has gone astray in the past two years and to focus intensively on closing the security gaps that we all know are out there.
DOBBS: You see this as a bureaucratic issue, a leadership issue, or simply a failure on the part of Washington to understand that almost 3,000 people were killed on September 11 and for many of us, that represents a real tragedy and one that deserves more than lip service when one talks about providing security to the American people.
ERVIN: It's a serious problem. And I want to stress that, of course, there have been improvements. Cockpits are hardened. Some pilots are armed now. The number of air marshals has dramatically increased. But even in the area of aviation security, where the most has been done, security gaps remain.
As you know, our auditors in 2003 were able far more often than they should have been to sneak deadly weapons past the passenger and screener baggage work force.
So more than anything, we need a management team that has the expertise to take disparate, dysfunctional components and weld it into cohesive hole focused on the counterterrorism core mission of the Department of Homeland Security. DOBBS: Clark Kent Ervin, we owe you a debt of gratitude for being candid and honest about the issues that we're facing, as Senator Biden said today, candor, not less than scarce commodity right now. We appreciate it.
ERVIN: Thank you very much, Lou. Great to be here.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Well, director Oliver Stone tonight turning on critics of his film "Alexander." Stone says American critics and audiences focused too much on the portrayal of Alexander's sexuality, at least as portrayed in the film. He said the phrase "Alexander the Gay" which was often used by critics and the media was, in his word, ridiculous.
The movie performed very poorly at the box office. It grossed $34 million so far in this country and Canada. Compare that to the $150 million the movie cost to make. Oliver Stone blaming fundamentalism in this country as suggested he didn't take a good look at his own rushes.
Still ahead here, the results of tonight's poll and a preview of tomorrow. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now here's what we've all been waiting for: the results of tonight's poll. Almost three quarters of you said the United States should have turned over the lead in the tsunami relief effort to the United Nations.
Thanks for being with us. Please join us here tomorrow. "Jackpot Justice," our special report, 100,000 people in this country die each year from medical mistakes. Tomorrow we focus on why so little is being done to change that.
For all of us here, good night from New York. CNN's special report "Turning the Tide" is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 6, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, worldwide the United States being praised for its aid and assistance to South Asia's tsunami victims. Why then, is the Bush administration sacrificing the opportunity to enhance our international image and instead allow the United Nations to step in to take the credit?
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Now, I think, things are up and running to the point where we can work within the U.N. communities.
DOBBS: Freshman Democratic Senator Ken Salazar won a surprise election victory in Colorado. I'll ask him why he wants to allow millions of illegal aliens to work in this country.
The wage gap between men and women is narrowing. But before you cheer, wait until you learn why the gender gap is closing.
And homeland insecurity. A blunt warning tonight about the failures of the Homeland Security Department. A former top homeland security official will tell us why Washington is ignoring border and port security and leaving 300 million Americans vulnerable to terrorist attack.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Thursday, January 6. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news out of Iraq. Seven American soldiers have been killed in an attack in northwest Baghdad.
Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, even the heavily armored Bradley fighting vehicle was not enough to protect these soldiers from Task Force Baghdad from a powerful roadside bomb that hit their vehicle about 6 p.m. local time in Iraq.
It's the latest attack from insurgents, who have killed nearly 100 people this week, mostly Iraqi policemen and Iraqi citizens.
This attack also came on a day when a U.S. Marine was killed in al-Anbar province and on a day when the deputy U.S. commander of forces in Iraq predicted that assaults would only increase as election day draws near.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. THOMAS METZ, U.S. ARMY: I expect an increase in violence as the elections approach. I expect the thugs and terrorists to make every effort to stop the elections by targeting candidates and polling sites and by attempting to intimidate the Iraqi people.
These attempts show that the enemy of Iraq are working only to squander Iraq's potential, hinder reconstruction and withhold freedom from the people of Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: General Metz said there's no contemplation of postponing the elections scheduled for January 30, saying that would only give what he called the thugs and terrorists more time to practice their intimidation.
Iraq has to -- extended a state of emergency across most of the country except for part of some of the Kurdish areas for another 30 days.
These deaths, Lou, bring the U.S. death toll in Iraq now to about 1,350, more than 1,000 of those killed in hostile action, and the number of wounded of U.S. soldiers and Marines is now over 10,000 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. We'll be going back to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon for more on this developing story.
And I'll be talking with General David Grange about this escalating insurgency in Iraq as insurgents and terrorists are trying to disrupt preparations for the Iraqi elections to be held at the end of the month.
Turning now to the tsunami disaster, health officials are warning that the number of people killed in the disaster could double to more than 300,000. The World Health Organization says many survivors could die from cholera and dysentery unless they receive clean water and other supplies.
American and other world leaders today promised to work together to make certain that tsunami victims receive the help they need as soon as possible. John King reports from the Indonesian capital of Jakarta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sri Lanka to one side, the International Monetary Fund to the other, the United States in the middle and in the leadership role as the world responds to the tsunami disaster. Set aside, at least for the moment, what has become standard fare at national gathering, criticism about U.S. policy in Iraq and complaints that, as likeable a figure as Colin Powell may be, his boss seems, to many in the world, to consider multilateralism a dirty word.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have not had one single discussion about Iraq. This has been the tsunami.
KING: All tsunami and, at least so far, considerable praise for the front line U.S. role in the response. A commitment of $350 million to the relief effort. And not counted in that, a U.S. military contribution that includes war ships launching helicopters to deliver desperately needed food, water and medicine.
Consider this from the United Nations official who initially suggested the United States and other wealthy nations were being stingy.
JAN EGELAND, UNITED NATIONS: And we're very, very happy.
KING: U.S. military personnel carrying sick children in the country with the world's largest Muslim population, and former President Bush helping raise money he hopes does more than just bring aid to tsunami survivors.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am convinced that in the Muslim world, for example, they will see that we have a heart and that we don't discriminate because of somebody's religion.
KING: Snapshots of America to, at least for a moment, supercede a much more controversial image.
Anti-American protests are hardly uncommon in Indonesia. Mr. Powell, in fact, is staying in a hotel bombed 17 months ago by terrorists believed to be targeting it because of its American affiliation.
Still for all the smiles, the U.S. role in tsunami relief has not been controversy free. A top U.S. relief official angered Paris by saying the French traditionally are not major players in humanitarian relief efforts.
And some at the United Nations saw an Iraq-style disagreement brewing when the White House announced it was forming a coalition of its own to lead a tsunami relief effort.
But Secretary Powell on Thursday announced that so-called core group is folding. He says it got the aid pipeline up and running but that the United Nations is now ready to take the lead.
(on camera) Others suggested it was proof the group was a mistake to begin with, but that by disbanding it the Bush White House has now left the United Nations with no one else to blame if the relief effort falters.
John King, CNN, Jakarta, Indonesia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And critics say the United States is making a huge mistake by allowing the United Nations to take the lead in the relief effort. Those critics say the Bush administration is missing a rare opportunity to enhance the image of the United States overseas, and at the same time, win diplomatic favor in a strategically important region.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The United States front and center with 18 U.S. military ships, 90 helicopters in the region. The military alone is spending $6 million a day. U.S. aid is pouring in. The humanitarian commitment of the United States is plainly visible and unquestioned.
And no one thinks the United States should be hardheaded, looking for gain out of tragedy. But some say letting the United Nations coordinate efforts may be an opportunity squandered.
JONATHAN LAURENCE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It is really about improving the image of the U.S. in an area of the world where the image is execrable. The image is of the U.S. as an occupying power.
PILGRIM: The United States is spending $671 million in public diplomacy, some of that money on improving its image in the Muslim world.
The U.S. State Department launched a splashy $15 million ad campaign called "shared values" that drew criticism, an exercise in what critics call soft power, in contrast to the hard power of the military.
After an initial stumble in not being quick enough after the tsunami, the United States pledged $350 million, publicly called for private citizens to contribute, and sent Secretary of State Colin Powell to the region with Jeb Bush, taking the lead on joining core countries to galvanize the efforts.
JUDITH BARNETT, PRESIDENT, THE BARNETT GROUP: What we need to provide is the leadership. The leadership is what other countries have seen us as lacking. Now we have a coalition. Now we have all kinds of financial support from other countries. And yet our leadership is backing down.
It's just very confusing foreign policy. It's a very big opportunity that we could have done well at.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell today said the core group of nations helped catalyze the international response. The execution of the effort is still very much in flux, however, and the success of the mission is now in the hands of the U.N. and not the United States -- Lou.
DOBBS: A peculiar decision on the part of the United States, which as you reported, taking the lead role here, providing, through its -- through the military, tremendous support and logistical help, operational help. This is -- this is going to be a controversial decision for some time.
PILGRIM: I think so, Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
There is new video tonight showing the very moment the tsunami struck the coast of Thailand just north of Phuket Island. The wave, as it races ashore, the video showing the incredible speed of the tsunamis as they charged toward the coastline.
A man on the beach was the first person to be swept away. He was not the only victim, of course. A large number of people on this beach, Thais and foreign tourists, were killed in the very same area.
This videotape was shot by the owner of a restaurant overlooking the beach. He says he tried to warn tourists to flee for their lives. But the tourists on the beach were unable to hear his warnings.
Please join us here on CNN tonight for a prime time special, "SAVING THE CHILDREN," our special report co-anchored by Christiane Amanpour and Anderson Cooper. They'll be reporting the stories of the devastating tsunami through the eyes of some of the youngest victims.
That's our prime time special, "SAVING THE CHILDREN," tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 Pacific here on CNN.
Still ahead tonight, more on the bomb attack that killed seven of our soldiers in Iraq. I'll also be talking with General David Grange about this escalating violence in Iraq and whether we can contain the insurgency.
And Democrats say he's a good guy, a solid guy. So why are they grilling Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales? We'll have that story for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senate Democrats today blasted Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales at a confirmation hearing. The Democrats criticized the White House counsel for his role in shaping a Bush administration policy blamed for abuse of Iraqi prisoners.
Kelli Arena reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Judge Gonzales, would you now stand? KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even before he was asked a single question, Alberto Gonzales made a preemptive strike.
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I am and will remain deeply committed to ensuring that the United States government complies with all of its legal obligations as it fights the war on terror.
ARENA: But Senate Democrats accused Gonzales of trying to skirt U.S. and international laws by supporting a 2002 Justice Department memo which said the president, in the war on terror, "is not always bound by international laws forbidding torture."
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Does the president have the authority, in your judgment, to exercise commander in chief override and immunize acts of torture?
GONZALES: With all due respect, Senator, the president has said we're not going to engage in torture. That is a hypothetical question.
ARENA: Democrats allege the Justice memo recently withdrawn also said only the most severe types of torture were prohibited and, therefore, is partly to blame for alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: You were warned by Secretary Powell -- Secretary Powell -- and other top military leaders that ignoring our longstanding traditions and rules would lead to abuse and undermine our military culture, and that is what has happened.
ARENA: Even supportive Republicans voiced concerns.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: When you start looking at torture statutes and you look at ways around the spirit of the law that -- you're losing the moral high ground.
ARENA: Gonzales said he was sickened by the photos, but refused to give a legal opinion, saying it might prejudice a possible criminal case if he is confirmed as attorney general.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: You're in no way jeopardizing a future case. That's malarkey. Pure malarkey. So we're looking for candor, old buddy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Despite those attacks and questions about whether he is too close to the president, the son of Mexican immigrants is widely expected to be confirmed as the first Hispanic attorney general -- Lou.
DOBBS: Senator Biden, candor, old buddy. There's so much of that rampant in Washington, D.C., these days. Thank you very much.
Kelli Arena from Washington.
The White House tonight is welcoming its newest resident. Miss Beasley is a Scottish terrier puppy the President Bush gave the first lady for her birthday late last year. The puppy has spent the past several weeks with is breeder in New Jersey. Miss Beasley is, if you're into genealogy, the niece of the Bushes' other Scottish terrier, Barney.
How the latest deadly attack on American soldiers in Iraq will effect U.S. strategy against the insurgents and terrorists. General David Grange will be with us.
And how a bolo tie-wearing lifelong Democrat beat a popular beer- brewing Republican in a red state? Newly elected Senator Ken Salazar will join me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More now on the breaking news out of Iraq. Seven American soldiers killed in a roadside bombing in Baghdad.
Let's turn now to General David Grange.
General, this insurgency is escalating in violence. Every day of this new year, at least one American soldier or Marine has been killed. What can be done to end this escalating violence, to bring order and control?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's going to increase even more, Lou, all the way up to the end of the month, and, right now, what the coalition forces are doing are increasing the offensive operations. It's the only thing they can do. They've got to keep the terrorist insurgents moving off their feet just as much as they're doing to the coalition forces.
DOBBS: General, I'm not sure that's good enough. The fact of the matter is that we have been in Iraq now for almost two years.
The violence is escalating. Our intelligence, obviously, is not working. Or we could be dealing, it seems to me at least, far more effectively in preventing these deaths.
We do not either have enough troops, enough intelligence, enough material or enough -- an appropriate strategy to be dealing with the need to bring absolute security here.
Or is it possible that it's all of the above? What can be done?
GRANGE: Well, you hit a couple key factors. One is the intelligence. The enemy has the advantage on intelligence. There's no doubt about it.
There's not enough Iraqi citizens reporting on, turning in insurgents in the area. If there's 30,000 insurgents, you would think they'd be rounding up much more.
The other is there's not enough Iraqi forces trained that are credible, that have good leadership, that will stay and fight. The initiative to put American advisers with these Iraqi forces is a great start, and it will make a difference.
But you're going to always have spikes in this. It's not going to just totally taper off. It's going to go up and down for a long time.
DOBBS: General, I suppose my reaction to that is we heard the violence would escalate in the runup to the hand-over of -- to the interim government. Then we heard that the violence would escalate afterwards. And then we've heard that the violence will escalate. If our military leaders, the Pentagon, understand what will happen, why in the world cannot they deal with it and forestall it?
GRANGE: Well, it's -- it is a tall order, and insurgencies are the toughest fight you can get into. When you don't have lines on a map, when you don't have conventional forces, it's a very tough, wary animal -- enemy, and it's just tough to go after them.
DOBBS: Another tough part of what is happening right now -- General Helmley, the -- James Helmley, the head of the Reserves, as you know, has said that with the current policies in place, in his judgment, the Reserves are degenerating, are in prospect of degenerating into what he called a broken force. How can we permit this to occur?
GRANGE: We cannot, and some of the policies that he's talking about that are antiquated, some of the Cold War policies must be changed. They must be changed to the reality of what we face today on the battlefield.
DOBBS: And one of the realities is that we simply need more men and women in uniform. Isn't that correct?
GRANGE: Well, what the Reserve commander's talking about is if we have a major war right now with everything else that's going on -- humanitarian relief, Iraq, Afghanistan, war on terrorists --= it's going to be really tough to take it down. Now will the U.S. win? Absolutely. But to sustain a fight, especially one that becomes maybe another guerrilla warfare, very hard to do.
DOBBS: And what is the military, what is the Pentagon, what is the White House doing about this? Because what General Helmley is talking about, you have also raised some serious issues and called for changes and reform and a new way of thinking. Why isn't there a response on the part of the United States government to what are evident cries for change?
GRANGE: Well, I don't know. Some of these changes are going to take place, but, as far as I'm concerned, they're a little slow. This is not a spike in commitment to conflict. This is a plateau that we're going to live with for quite a while, and something must be done. DOBBS: General David Grange, we thank you for being here, as always.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Many of you wrote in about our reports on the Mexican government's newly published guide to help its citizens cross the U.S. border illegally. We'll have your thoughts on that issue and more coming up.
And newly elected Democratic Senator Ken Salazar will be our guest. Why does he want to allow millions of illegal aliens to work in this country? I'll be asking him exactly that.
And a shocking decision. Why a mother who was convicted of murdering her children could go free.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: In a moment, I'll be talking to one of two Hispanic senators elected to the new Congress. We'll be talking about defeating a Republican in a red state and his plans to deal with the millions of illegal aliens in this country.
First, these stories.
A Texas appellate court today reversed the murder conviction of Andrea Yates. Yates convicted in 2002. She drowned her five children in a bathtub. The court ordered a new trial for Yates citing false testimony from a prosecution witness.
Tonight, a deadly winter storm has moved across the plains and now into New England. The storm, carrying freezing rain and snow, is being blamed for 16 deaths. The storm has also knocked out power to nearly half a million homes and businesses across the Midwest.
Border officials say the number of illegal aliens detained on our border with Mexico has risen almost 13 percent over the past three months. Nearly 200,000 were arrested crossing the border during that period. But some border agents say the rise in arrests simply shows more Mexicans were crossing the border after President Bush announced a plan to legalize illegal Mexican workers.
We return now to the developing story of the deaths of seven of our soldiers in a bomb attack in Baghdad.
Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has new developments -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, we have some new information courtesy of our Baghdad bureau about what happened to these seven soldiers who were killed when their Bradley fighting vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb. The bomb was so powerful, it flipped the 50,000-pound-plus Bradley upside down and into a ditch. And then the attempts to get to the U.S. soldiers were hampered by another explosion and a fire, according to a 1st Cavalry Division spokesman.
Again, this shows how powerful these roadside bombs are, and even in a heavily armored vehicle, such as a Bradley, you can have a significant loss of life. The only thing that would have more armor on it is an M1A1 tank, and even U.S. soldiers have been killed in those.
Again, this comes as U.S. commanders in Iraq have warned about an increase of violence leading up to the elections and in a week where nearly 100 have been killed, most of those Iraqi policemen -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Turning now to politics. My guest won a closely contested Senate race in Colorado in November. Senator Ken Salazar the only Democrat to gain a Senate seat for the party in a state that voted red, voting for President Bush, joining us tonight from Capitol Hill.
Senator, first, congratulations on your election and good to see you.
SEN. KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO: Thank you, Lou. It's good to see you. Thank you.
DOBBS: The Bush administration's been clear about its agenda: Social Security reform, tax code reform, immigration reform. Are you with the president on those issues?
SALAZAR: You know, we need to get more specifics from the president on where he's going with all of those issues. You know, I'm open at this point in time to listen to proposals or concerns that I have about Social Security and where he's headed with that, but -- I'm open and we'll wait to see what comes out specifically on those issues before I make up my mind.
DOBBS: And in terms of representing the people of your state, a red state, if you will, you won a clear victory, but a surprising victory in the state. To what do you attribute your success?
SALAZAR: Well, you know, I was not surprised by the victory. I won three statewide elections, which include this U.S. senate race, and I won it by a 5 percent victory margin, which I think is a significant margin.
And I think the reason that I won in Colorado was because the people of the state know who I am and they know the work that I have done on their behalf in the past, and I think that, for them, they had trust in me that I would come here to Washington, D.C., and that I would be a strong, clear and independent voice for the people of Colorado. DOBBS: A strong and independent voice. Let's talk about one of the places where your voice has been heard, and that's on the issue of, if you will, legalizing illegal alien workers in your state. Your reasoning as to why you would support the guest worker program?
SALAZAR: Lou, immigration reform is something that is obviously needed in our country and something we need to work on. I think the principles, to me, that are most important is, one, we need to make sure that we have enforceable borders because otherwise we won't have the right kind of homeland security. Secondly, make sure that we're protecting American jobs for American workers. And thirdly, I think that Mexico also needs to deal with the issue. It's not good enough for Mexico to be doing what it's doing now, which is essentially sending a lot of its people across the borders to the United States. I think ultimately, it is something that the United States and Mexico have to work on together to make sure that there are opportunities provided to people who live in Mexico so that they're not being pulled across the border to the economic opportunity here in this country.
DOBBS: Are you offended, Senator, by the fact that the Mexican government would print, publish and distribute basically a guidebook to encourage its citizens and to facilitate their becoming illegal aliens in this country?
SALAZAR: You know, I am not aware that they have done so. Assuming that what you say is correct, Lou...
DOBBS: You can always take it to the bank if I say it, Senator.
SALAZAR: OK. Well, if you say it, let's assume that it's true, I don't think that it's appropriate for the Mexican government to be doing that.
DOBBS: Why do you suppose our government is being absolutely silent on the issue?
SALAZAR: You know, I expect that what's happening right now is, you know, the Bush administration is still in the process of getting its program together, that it's going to present to the Congress this first session. You know, I've had several meetings with the president since I've been in Washington. And he has talked about immigration reform as something he wants to tackle in this next Congress. And I hope it does happen. And I hope it is based on some of those principles that I've articulated.
DOBBS: Principles -- the principle of border security. One of the issues, of course, is "TIME" magazine reported this summer that an estimated 3 million illegal aliens will enter the country, Bear Stearns, in a recent study, estimates the number of illegal aliens living in the country, somewhere between 18 million and 20 million. Why in the world can't this government carry out enforcement of its laws and deal with the issues before it? Is it because some of the proponents of open borders are trying to style this as a racist issue? And I said racist, not racial?
SALAZAR: You know, I don't know. I imagine there's lots of motivations out there. But I do know that for a fact, one of the things we need to do is need to put more resources into making sure that our immigrational laws are, in fact, enforced. That's part of what is going to have to happen if we're going to deal with the issue of immigration effectively. In addition, we know that it's not only Mexico where people come from to this country illegally. They come from all over the world, including Canada, including other countries, and Latin America. And part of our overall agenda is trying to work with those governments so they can create economic opportunity for people in their own country so that they don't -- so they aren't pulled across the border here to the United States where they seek economic opportunity.
DOBBS: You're absolutely right, Senator. And couldn't be more right. But I do think it's important we also note that Mexico sends just about 10 percent of its population to the United States as a result of its policies as well as our lack of policy. Senator Salazar, we want to congratulate you again. We thank you for being with us. Hope you'll come back soon.
SALAZAR: I will. And part of what I have talked to the president about, and I've talked to people like Mel Martinez and others is that we really need to look at the hemispheric issues in the western hemisphere. And that will include trying to deal with some of these issues that are tough issues like the immigration issue we face in this country.
DOBBS: Outstanding. Again, Senator, thanks for being here. All the best to you.
SALAZAR: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: The Department of Homeland Security today said a quarter of a million people from El Salvador can remain in this country 18 months longer than had been originally approved. Almost a quarter of a million Salvadoran nationals, both legal and illegal, are living and working in the country. They are all eligible for temporary protected status while their country recovers from a series of earthquakes back in 2001. Those here since 2001 are all eligible.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts. Turning to Armin Litchfield, Connecticut. "Immigration is great but illegal immigration is even better. You pay no taxes, you get a driver's license, a free driver's license and medical benefits. That's a lot better than what I had to go through as a legal immigrant. Now I know why they call it the American Dream."
And Marcia in Newbury, New Hampshire. "I'm astounded about the news item regarding the "handbook" for illegal aliens coming from Mexico. Why is our president trying to appease the Mexican government after this blatant act?"
And Bill in Scottsdale, Arizona. "Thank goodness the Mexican government published the migration guide, it was the best thing that could have happened in order to draw our attention to that government's pathetic position on illegal immigration into this country at times Mr. Fox telling us how to handle his people in this country illegally and our need for reform here. However it is shameful that our government has stated no position on the document."
We love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Next, why some manufacturers are insulting your intelligence with their products.
And jackpot justice. Why some states, including California, are hoping plaintiffs win big-damage awards.
And new evidence, the gender gap in pay is narrowing. Wages for working men and women in this country, approaching parity. We'll tell you why that isn't a good-news story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight in our special report jackpot justice. we focus on some states that are cashing in on huge punitive damages awarded to plaintiffs. California is the latest state to attempt it. So far, however, the plan has been something of a failure for California. Casey Wian has the story from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger unveiled a plan to overhaul his state's government Wednesday night. In part because it faces a crippling $8 billion budget deficit. One reason for the shortfall is the failure of Schwarzenegger's plan to divert some of the money plaintiffs win in civil lawsuits to the state treasury. Last year, his budget included a provision allowing his government to keep 75 percent of civil punitive damage awards. He estimated it would raise nearly half a billion dollars for California's treasury this fiscal year. More than halfway through that period, the state has not collected a single penny.
JOHN SULLIVAN, PRESIDENT, CIVIL JUSTICE ASSN.: There was a general feeling that because it was a grand experiment and people didn't really know how it was going to work, that it was safe to put a sunset clause in it, which runs out in the middle of 2006.
WIAN: So lawyers are simply delaying cases, ensuring they won't be final until after next year, and preventing the state from collecting. Eight other states have split punitive damage laws. Some divert the money to the state treasury, others to victims' compensation funds. The reasoning behind them is this, individual plaintiffs are already paid for their actual losses, injuries and pain and suffering under compensatory damages. Punitive damages are intended to penalize the wrongdoer and protect society from things like faulty product designs, deceptive business practices, or negligent behavior.
CATHERINE SHARKEY, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL: The idea that one individual plaintiff should get a huge windfall in an individual case because the defendant's conduct, for example, has harmed many other individuals or has been particularly aggregaous, has been an affront to society does not seem right to me. However, in practice, these schemes can raise some phony issues.
WIAN: For example, they may actually do more to encourage monetary settlements than discourage lawyers from seeking big punitive awards.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): With tort reform now on the national agenda, other states are considering tapping into punitive damage awards. Perhaps they'll learn from California's mistakes -- Lou.
DOBBS: Starting to look a bit like a lottery, something like jackpot justice. What is the sense there? Is it that this is never going to work in California, or will they just try to improve their chances, if you will?
WIAN: Well, it's got another year and a half to run, this program, the sunset clause expires in about 18 months. So they'll see how it goes. They can reinstitute it after that time period. Right now, though, it doesn't look like it's working well. The lawyers have figured out ways to get around it.
DOBBS: Imagine that. Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian from Los Angeles.
Our increasingly litigious society has led some manufacturers to place truly absurd warning labels on their products. An anti-lawsuit organization in Michigan holds the wacky warning label contest every year to call attention to one of the side effects of frivolous lawsuits, so-called. This year's winner, a toilet brush with a label that reads do not use for personal hygiene. Another top finisher we liked was a scooter bearing the warning this product moves when used.
Now tonight's poll question. Do you think the United States should have turned over the lead in the tsunami relief effort to the United Nations? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later in the show.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have lost their jobs to cheap foreign competition, both in this country and in cheap labor markets overseas. While some workers have been able to find new jobs, they often are forced to settle for lower wages just to survive. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris Parkes is a 47-year-old electronics engineer in San Francisco. His life has been a roller coaster over the last four years. Downsized from his job, then unemployed. A stint in nursing school, and then finally landing a job working for the state government. A far cry from the 1980s and '90s when there were plenty of U.S. tech jobs.
CHRIS PARKES, ELECTRONICS ENGINEER: I feel like those jobs are being lost. I feel like they're being offshored. I feel like -- I just feel like it's not the field that you can go into and expect that, you know, you're going to have any kind of security or retirement. And those are big concerns for me at my age.
SYLVESTER: The median income levels for electrical and computer engineers fell for the first time in 31 years according to a new survey by the industry. The Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers blames offshoring and the increased use of guest worker visas.
GERARD ALPHONSE, IEEE-USA: When somebody loses one's job my guess is that it's very difficult for that person to get a similar job in the same field.
SYLVESTER: The number of manufacturing, engineering and other jobs typically dominated by men is shrinking. And industries like nursing and education, traditionally dominated by women, are growing. The result is a shrinking gap in the wages between men and women. In the late 1990s, the median female worker earned 76 cents for every $1 earned by a male. In 2004, women were earning 81 cents of every $1.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: We don't necessarily want to see the gender gap closing because men's wages get hammered. We'd like to see, I guess, women's wages and men's growing a pace with women catching up to men.
SYLVESTER: Case in point, Chris Parkes. His government salary is half of what it was in the private sector. And he could be laid off again because of the California budget crises.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): The economic policy institute says that have the wages of men continued at its previous pace, the wage gap would have remained the same. That leads economists to conclude the only reason the wage gap narrowed was because men's wages were flat or declined, not because women's wages increased dramatically -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much.
As Lisa Sylvester reported here last night, an astonishing new study that found as many as 20 million illegal aliens in this country, and Senator Salazar and I discussed that. That report also found these millions are now an established part of an underground economy that is approaching $1 trillion. My guest tonight, a co-author of the study, Bob Justich, a senior managing director of Bear Stearns and joins us now. Thanks for being here.
First, why a Wall Street firm doing a study on illegal aliens.
BOB JUSTICH, BEAR STEARNS: Well, Lou, we look at employment numbers every month. And we get excited if they're off by 100,000. Imagine the implications of payroll numbers or the total numbers, cumulative numbers being off by the millions.
DOBBS: The idea that 20 million live here, I mean, that is a number -- that's the highest number that I've seen suggested by anyone. You did that by trying to reconcile a number of other data points, if you will, with the Census Bureau. The Bureau has to be wildly off.
JUSTICH: Right. Well, it's common perception that the census process is very difficult. There was a recent study out of the University of London citing all the problems with a lot of census processes. We looked at a lot of bottom-up data, uses of services, school enrollment, housing permits, and we think there's a lot more data out there that would support this notion.
DOBBS: Why would you have to go out to get this? Why isn't the United States government, that has the responsibility to do so, why isn't it coming up with the labor information, the statistical information, and speaking candidly and straightforwardly with the American people about the size mentioned, the magnitude of this problem?
JUSTICH: Well, Lou, that's a very good question. And I don't know if it's a conspiracy or if it is just the fact that government lags reality, which is quite normal.
DOBBS: I think that's a wonderful way to say it. Government lagging reality. But even governments should notice that 3 million people cross our borders illegally each year, don't you think?
JUSTICH: Well, the irony, we've talked to close to 100 immigrants and small business owners, and it's almost as if everybody in other countries knows the magnitude of it except for us.
DOBBS: And with that in context, you suggest that illegal aliens are a bigger part of the problem than outsourcing, for example, in terms of job creation and employment. Now, today, we got the news, a surprise upsurge in the number of claims for new benefits for unemployment, surged by 40,000. Estimating the number of outsourced jobs at about 400,000 for last year to cheap foreign labor markets. What do you mean when you say it's bigger?
JUSTICH: Well, Lou, it's no secret that people come to this country for work. And an astonishing statistic is that 96 percent of undocumented workers participate in the labor force. An incredible amount. They're coming here for a very good reason, and they're coming here because there are jobs available to them. And they're being given jobs that are -- that they're making good money at.
DOBBS: We've got about 15 seconds. What's the policy's solution?
JUSTICH: The policy solution is they'd better get a handle on the right number first before they make recommendations. You cannot just take a population the size of New York state and ask everybody to leave Monday morning. So better get closer to the right number, and there's been some tremendous benefits from this surge. The housing market, for example, has surged because of the population surge.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Good to have you with us.
JUSTICH: Thank you very much. DOBBS: Turning the tide. How the owners of one business are carrying on in the wake of the tsunami disaster. Homeland insecurity. One former homeland security official says this country is not nearly as safe as it should be. He's our guest.
And stone cold. Who one Hollywood director blames for his artistic failure.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Turning now to a critically important issue. My next guest is a blunt critic of the Department of Homeland Security. Clark Kent Ervin served nearly 2 years as inspector general of the department. And says that despite improvements in security since September 11, serious gaps remain. The department, he says, has failed to live up to its promise to improve intelligence as an example. He joins us tonight from Washington, D.C.
Good to have you with us.
CLARK KENT ERVIN: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS, FRM. INSPECTOR GENERAL DHS: Clark, let's begin where I left off with Senator Salazar, and my previous guest, and that is the fact that as many as 3 million illegal aliens are estimated to be crossing our borders every, every single year. How in the world can we even pretend we have homeland security? How can our elected officials pretend it if our borders are that porous?
ERVIN: Well, it's a very, very serious problem, and the department has a long way to go, Lou, before it solves it. One of the issues, of course, is the financial condition of the department. The particular part of the department, it's called ice, that tracks down the illegal aliens, has a budgetary shortfall. It doesn't know how much money it has and as a consequence it's had to install a hiring freeze. It's put a ban on the use of cell phones and the paying of confidential informants. So this part of the department, among other parts, are dysfunctional.
DOBBS: Dysfunctional, and now crying out for leadership. As you point out a third of the top 20 officials of homeland security, there's going to be a turnover. What should the president do about it?
ERVIN: Well, I'm hopeful that this will be an opportunity to install a senior management team that has experience and expertise. And what this is, the department is a merger an acquisition, a start- up and divestiture. 22 separate components that are disparate and to some degree dysfunctional. We need a seasoned business manager, and also ideally, someone who knows his or her way around the powers in Washington so that the department gets the budgetary resources and the statutory authority that it needs to get the job done.
DOBBS: So there is a huge structural issue, a huge management issue, a huge, obviously, border security issue. Our ports, have we done anything at all to improve substantially the security there, in your opinion?
ERVIN: Well, there have been improvements, but gaps remain. For example, one of the things the department touts is the container security initiative. That, in theory, makes sense, and the idea is to push the border out, to have inspections conducted at foreign ports before the cargo gets to the United States.
The problem is, it's unclear what role American inspectors play in these foreign countries. How active can they be? And what degree of inspection to the foreign inspectors carry out? And even if there is an intact inspection at the foreign port before it sails to the United States, what measures are in place to make sure that the cargo is not tampered with en route?
DOBBS: What do you recommend that we do now? Because as you have basically agreed here, without secure borders, we are vulnerable to terrorist attack, all 300 million of us in this country. Without secure ports, we're vulnerable. And with all of the discussion in Washington, there seems to be a basically, if not a pretense, at least a failure to recognize that border security is homeland security. What in the world are we going to do?
ERVIN: Well, the good news is that this problem, the problem of homeland security, is soluble. We know what the answer is. In brief, it boils down to management, leadership, equipment and money. And all of those things are within the power of the United States government to provide.
Again, I'm hopeful that this new year, the new presidential term, the prospect of new leadership at the department will provide an opportunity to correct the areas in which the department has gone astray in the past two years and to focus intensively on closing the security gaps that we all know are out there.
DOBBS: You see this as a bureaucratic issue, a leadership issue, or simply a failure on the part of Washington to understand that almost 3,000 people were killed on September 11 and for many of us, that represents a real tragedy and one that deserves more than lip service when one talks about providing security to the American people.
ERVIN: It's a serious problem. And I want to stress that, of course, there have been improvements. Cockpits are hardened. Some pilots are armed now. The number of air marshals has dramatically increased. But even in the area of aviation security, where the most has been done, security gaps remain.
As you know, our auditors in 2003 were able far more often than they should have been to sneak deadly weapons past the passenger and screener baggage work force.
So more than anything, we need a management team that has the expertise to take disparate, dysfunctional components and weld it into cohesive hole focused on the counterterrorism core mission of the Department of Homeland Security. DOBBS: Clark Kent Ervin, we owe you a debt of gratitude for being candid and honest about the issues that we're facing, as Senator Biden said today, candor, not less than scarce commodity right now. We appreciate it.
ERVIN: Thank you very much, Lou. Great to be here.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Well, director Oliver Stone tonight turning on critics of his film "Alexander." Stone says American critics and audiences focused too much on the portrayal of Alexander's sexuality, at least as portrayed in the film. He said the phrase "Alexander the Gay" which was often used by critics and the media was, in his word, ridiculous.
The movie performed very poorly at the box office. It grossed $34 million so far in this country and Canada. Compare that to the $150 million the movie cost to make. Oliver Stone blaming fundamentalism in this country as suggested he didn't take a good look at his own rushes.
Still ahead here, the results of tonight's poll and a preview of tomorrow. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now here's what we've all been waiting for: the results of tonight's poll. Almost three quarters of you said the United States should have turned over the lead in the tsunami relief effort to the United Nations.
Thanks for being with us. Please join us here tomorrow. "Jackpot Justice," our special report, 100,000 people in this country die each year from medical mistakes. Tomorrow we focus on why so little is being done to change that.
For all of us here, good night from New York. CNN's special report "Turning the Tide" is next.
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