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American Morning
TV Host Under Fire For Promoting Bush Agenda After Being Paid
Aired January 07, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: 8:30 in New York. It was raining this time yesterday. It's still chilly outside, but that's all right. Good for the commute.
Soledad is in Thailand again, today. We'll get back to her at the top of the hour. We'll have -- covering, rather, the latest information that we're getting out of that region.
In the next 30 minutes, though, a number of topics to get to here. We'll talk to a key player, maybe the key player, in the confirmation hearings for Alberto Gonzales. Senate judiciary chairman, Arlen Specter, my guest in a moment.
Will Gonzales get the job, and is Specter satisfied with answers he heard yesterday?
Also, there's a TV pundit out there who got behind the president's education proposals. There's a catch, though. The White House paid him about a quarter of a million dollars to do it.
Armstrong Williams is with us today about why he took the money. And we'll talk to him in a matter of moments.
First though, we went to get to the very latest on the developments in the tsunami story. U.N. secretary-general, Kofi Annan, now in Sri Lanka meeting with officials overseeing the biggest relief effort the U.N. has ever been involved in.
He's just out of Sumatra, Indonesia where he said at the time, "I have never seen such utter destruction mile after mile. And you wonder, where are the people? What happened to them?"
Secretary of State Colin Powell in Sri Lanka now, this morning, talking with CNN's John King about concerns there -- that is whether or not there's too much competition and possibly too much chaos, too, in the aid effort.
Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: ... chaos and confusion?
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I don't think there will be competition so much as so many people trying to do the right thing. And speaking to our USAID people here, so far they have been able to coordinate the effort of all of these different groups.
And as you know, we have some military personnel on the ground that I think can also play a useful role in coordinating all of these well-meaning organizations.
The demand is great. There are a lot of people in need. So there should be a flood of organizations coming in. And we have to make sure that we rationalize what we are doing in each of these countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: More with Colin Powell next hour, again with John King exclusively, today, from Sri Lanka.
Also from India, to the west of it, a different view of the tsunami today -- a 16-year-old boy visiting a shrine a few hundred yards off the southern tip of India. He took this videotape as the giant waves broke in front of him.
He and other tourists had no idea what was happening, obviously. They did not know about the massive quake or the deadly tsunamis that were now rolling over the sea in front of them.
They only knew that the ferry that was supposed to pick them up was running late. When the tide went out and the sea bed was exposed, some people were considering walking back to the mainland until that giant wave then rushed in went by them.
They are OK. But it is, again, a very unique perspective on what we all now know from two weeks ago.
And it seems, Heidi, that we're just going to continue to get these stories day after day...
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we do care a lot about it.
HEMMER: ... because you have these nuggets just keep on popping up every day that we sit here. And again, that from southern India.
COLLINS: People just not realizing what they were in. That's for sure.
HEMMER: So true, yes.
COLLINS: We have other news to tell you about, though, this morning, at this time.
Now in the news, Jerusalem police have apparently released Mustafa Barghouti, one of the presidential candidates hoping to replace Yasser Arafat.
Barghouti was detained earlier this morning in East Jerusalem. Israeli police say he violated an agreement in which candidates are not allowed to campaign in areas sacred to both Jews and Moslems.
Barghouti is not expected to when Sunday's vote but could come in a close second.
The husband of Andrea Yates says he hopes she'll finally be sent to a mental hospital for treatment. Rusty Gates spoke last night on LARRY KING LIVE just hours after an appeals court in Texas overturned his wife's murder convictions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL YATES, HUSBAND OF ANDREA YATES: I would like to see them drop the charges against her. And I would like to see her go to a state mental hospital until she is well and safe.
And that could take, you know, a while. I mean, she's still not stable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Andrea Yates had been found guilty of drowning three of her five children. Her husband is urging prosecutors to drop charges and not retry the case.
Prosecutors still undecided about trying to re-charge the defendant in a highly publicized spy case. A federal judge yesterday threw out all criminal charges against Katrina Leung.
She was accused of illegally obtaining secret documents from an FBI agent with whom she was romantically involved. The judge said prosecutors prevented Leung from having access to her former lover, which kept her from getting information about the case.
And a telethon for tsunami victims on Saudi Arabian television. The fundraiser pulling in $77 million, including $25 million from individual members of the Saudi royal family.
Added to that, $500 million from the Saudi-based, Islamic Development Bank. The telethon followed criticism that Saudi Arabia had not done enough to help in the tsunami relief efforts.
HEMMER: About 25 minutes, now, before the hour.
Heidi, thanks for that.
Alberto Gonzales, we know he was in the hot seat yesterday. He may be a step closer today to becoming the nation's first Hispanic attorney general.
Gonzales withstood some tough questioning yesterday from members of the Senate judiciary committee at his confirmation hearing. And Pennsylvania senator, Arlen Specter, is the committee chairman there -- the new chairman, we should say.
And the senator is my guest now on Capitol Hill.
Good morning to you.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning. Nice -- Nice to be with you.
HEMMER: Well, thank you.
You asked Alberto Gonzales yesterday, do you approve of torture?
His answer was, absolutely not.
Were you satisfied?
SPECTER: Well, I think that Judge Gonzales went a long way to emphasize that it is not his idea and not the administration's policy on torture. And I think that he handled the very controversial department of justice memorandum from August 2002 well.
That memo had articulated very, very broad powers for the president. And I asked him if he questioned -- one of the conclusions of that memo was that the president had as much authority to question detainees as he had for battlefield decisions. And Judge Gonzales said that was flatly -- flatly wrong.
Well, there is no doubt a lot of mistakes were made at Abu Ghraib and also in Guantanamo. And the issue before the committee was what role, if any, Judge Gonzales played.
HEMMER: In one of his answers, he says, and quoting now. We can put on the screen for our viewers to see.
He says, "Contrary to reports, I consider the Geneva conventions neither obsolete or quaint. Torture and abuse will not be tolerated by this administration."
That was recently -- yesterday, in fact, January of 2005.
Go back three years in a memo to the president, January of 2002. He says, the current war on terror, and quoting now, "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."
Did he clarify what appears to be or what could be possibly a contradiction in his testimony?
SPECTER: Well, I think -- I think he did clarify it. And I think he did change significantly the position which had evolved from this department of justice 2002 memorandum.
That memo had given a very, very narrow interpretation of what constituted torture, giving really great latitude. And there was this process of what they called migration, moving from Guantanamo, to Iraq, to Abu Ghraib.
And taking that memo, and the department of defense working group and then going to the field many layers down, really interpreting it in a way which was just not in accordance with United States values. And I think it was important that there be recognition of the mistakes of the past and a determination to correct them.
HEMMER: Do you believe those now who had reservations about Alberto Gonzales should not have reservations any more, based on what he said yesterday?
SPECTER: Well, some of his answers were not entirely satisfactory. But when you ask a man to recall what specific conversations were three years ago, it's very hard to do that.
I think overall Judge Gonzales acquitted himself well. And when the hearings were winding down late yesterday afternoon, I think it was significant that Senator Leahy and Senator Kennedy were asking Judge Gonzales if he would be willing to work with them on a variety of issues. When you talk about the future, that sort of assumes confirmation.
I'm not counting any chickens until the eggs are hatched. And I know there are some reservations in a number of corners. And Judge Gonzales got some tough questioning from some of us Republicans as well as Democrats.
But I think it's the duty of the committee, the president's party as well as the loyal opposition to ask tough questions. And I think Judge Gonzales acquitted himself reasonably well -- not perfectly, but reasonably well.
HEMMER: Thank you, senator.
SPECTER: Good to be with you.
HEMMER: And I know that you've recently had a bit of surgery. How's your health?
SPECTER: My health is fine. I didn't have any surgery. I had a little too much sun...
HEMMER: OK.
SPECTER: ... and I'm taking care of my nose. My nose wasn't too good to start with. I don't want it to get any worse.
HEMMER: Good luck to you. Thank you.
SPECTER: Thank you.
HEMMER: Happy New Year to you. Senator Arlen Specter, there.
That Gonzales story also kicks off this week's edition of "Gimme A Minute."
From D.C., Democratic strategist, Julian Epstein, back with us. Julian, good morning to you.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill. HEMMER: And Republican strategist, Tara Setmayer back with us as well. Hey, Tara, good morning. Happy New Year.
TARA SETMAYER, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Same to you.
HEMMER: And from the borowitzreport.com, the man lives and breathes again today. Andy Borowitz back with us again.
How are you, Drew? Good morning to you.
ANDY BOROWITZ, "BOROWITZREPORT.COM": Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Julian, start with you. Alberto Gonzales -- was his testimony good enough for you?
EPSTEIN: Well, here is a guy who was deeply involved in the torture memos. He was a guy who was widely regarded by many as having obstructed the 9/11 commission, widely regarded as having botched the Kerik vetting process. But still, in the words of one senator, a lot better than John Ashcroft.
So this administration continues to benefit from low expectations.
HEMMER: Tara, how do you think? Low expectations, or how did he hold up?
SETMAYER: Well, I think he epitomizes the American dream, coming from migrant workers in Texas. He sold sodas at Rice University, dreaming to go there one day, which he did.
He graduated from Harvard law school, became a supreme court justice of Texas. He's more than capable. He answered the questions well. And he would serve this country very, very well.
HEMMER: All right.
SETMAYER: He was not a part of the torture memos. He was -- He was examining the parameters of the law, which is what he is supposed to do.
HEMMER: What's your testimony, Andy?
BOROWITZ: You know, I think he is an improvement over Ashcroft. I mean, there is the whole torture thing, but at least he doesn't sing.
HEMMER: We'll count those chickens.
Tara, the president's approval rating in the Gallup poll now back over 50 percent. What's going on here?
SETMAYER: Well, it doesn't surprise me. It's consistent with what the -- what the American people exhibited in November. Despite the sour grapes of the Democrats, the American people like this president. And this is evidenced by the Gallup poll. So they need to just get over it and realize that the American people like him.
HEMMER: To be exact, it's at 52 percent.
What's behind the rebound, Julian?
EPSTEIN: Oh, I don't know how much of a rebound it is. Again, talking about low expectations, this is one of the lowest approval ratings for a second term president in modern times.
And if you combine that with the right track, wrong track direction, most of the public still thinking that we're on the wrong track, you have to come to one conclusion, this White House and this president did not win the election, rather the Democrats lost the election by running a mediocre campaign.
HEMMER: Well, your words...
SETMAYER: The president...
HEMMER: Hang on, Tara. You're breaking the rules, for crying out loud.
Here's Borowitz.
BOROWITZ: You know, there's even better news in this poll. Fifty-five percent approve of the job Dick Cheney is doing as president.
HEMMER: Three points better.
Back to Julian. Word from D.C. is that the Democrats are asking Terry McAuliffe to stay on as head of DNC for at least another year, maybe beyond that. What explains why they would do that, given the performance back in November?
EPSTEIN: Well, I don't think Terry wants the job. I don't think his wife wants him to take the job. He's a good guy, a good friend of mine. But I think the same way John Kerry is not going to be the nominee in '08, the Democrats are looking to some young, fresh blood.
This is going to be a wide open race. There is no clear front runner. It's going to be a cat fight in the month of November. And that's going to be good for you, Bill, because that's cable ratings week.
HEMMER: All right. We'll take that.
Some say that the whole idea here is to keep Howard Dean away from the head position there at the DNC.
EPSTEIN: That's not too bad...
HEMMER: Is that what's going on?
EPSTEIN: Well, that -- maybe a little bit of that.
HEMMER: All right. Tara, do you believe it?
SETMAYER: Well, this demonstrates that the Democratic Party's running around like a chicken with its head cut off. They have no focus.
Even Donna Brazile and other pundits in the Democratic Party have said that they need to have some soul searching and direction. And going -- taking steps backwards to keep Terry McAuliffe I don't think is showing progress.
HEMMER: All right. Here's to Andy. Who's your paddy (ph), Andy?
BOROWITZ: You know, I think it's time for the Democrats to pass the torch to a new generation of losers.
SETMAYER: I agree.
HEMMER: Under the radar. Tara, start us off. What did we miss this past week that o you consider significant?
SETMAYER: Well, amidst all of this grim, international news I found some political comedic humor yesterday on the floor of the House with the Democrats ranting and raving over the electoral votes in Ohio.
I think it's pathetic. We won the election. Maxine Waters and Michael Moore need to get together as the news Scully and Mulder and try -- as X-Files -- and try to find out where these electoral votes came from and the men in suits who allegedly intimidated voters.
Enough is enough.
HEMMER: Four hours there on Capitol Hill, yesterday.
Julian, what's on your radar?
EPSTEIN: The under covered story is Bush and the conservative movement viciously attacking the critics who said that they moved too slowly and too stingily on the tsunami disaster.
And then turning around and agreeing with such critics by moving with dispatch to increase the $15 million aid package by a 20-fold figure to over $300 million.
HEMMER: All right. A lot of numbers there.
Andy, what's happening over there?
BOROWITZ: Bill, the Mars rover has lasted longer than anyone expected it to, inspiring NASA scientists to change its name from Spirit to Rumsfeld.
HEMMER: And it's still going now. BOROWITZ: Still going.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy. Thanks, Tara. Thanks, Julian.
Have a great weekend. And again, Happy New Year to all three of you.
EPSTEIN: Thanks again.
SETMAYER: Thanks.
BOROWITZ: Thanks.
HEMMER: All right -- Heidi?
COLLINS: I want to go head and check on the weather now. Chad Myers once again standing by. Good morning, Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Heidi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MYERS: Back to you.
HEMMER: Yes, I bet.
COLLINS: All right, Chad, thanks.
HEMMER: Well, there's a famous talk show host now being paid by the White House to push an agenda on education. Listeners apparently had no idea it was happening.
Armstrong Williams is the guy in the focus here. His side of the story in a moment next.
COLLINS: Plus, still want to donate to tsunami relief? Well, it looks like Uncle Sam has a reward for you if you do.
Andy's Serwer is "Minding Your Business." We'll talk about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: There's a TV commentator reportedly admitting accepting money to promote President Bush's education policy.
According to "USA Today" today, Armstrong Williams was paid $240,000 to plug the "no child left behind" act in his syndicated broadcast. Some are now suggesting this deal raises ethical questions and possibly a congressional investigation.
Armstrong Williams with me from D.C., and good morning to you.
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, TV COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Bill. How are you?
HEMMER: I'm doing fine. What did you do in return for the money?
WILLIAMS: Well, Bill, the -- we were subcontracted to Catch Em (ph). And what we were doing, they used our media. We own our syndication, the rights side, where we syndicate our shows all of the country.
And with many of the affiliates, we have to pay them. And especially, in particular markets that they wanted this "no child left behind" to be on their airwaves, they paid for advertising time is what they paid for.
And in addition to that, which is what our contract called for -- I made it clear because it's something that really believed in as a commentator, something I wrote often about -- that I would use my contacts with people that I knew in different media outlets from time to time to get them to talk about "no child left behind"...
HEMMER: OK. Stop there. A couple of questions here.
Did you disclose to your readers, did you disclose to your viewers about the transaction?
WILLIAMS: Listen, I disclosed to different people whose airwaves that we use. I disclosed it to different commentators. I don't -- I can't recall whether I disclosed it to the audience or not.
HEMMER: All right. But part of your job is to persuade people, right? And part of your job is to present arguments that you believe in. And if you did present those arguments and were getting money in return for it, why not tell people?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, it's not as if it was an issue that I did not want to tell them. If issue did come up on the air, I made a very clear that we had a professional relationship where "no child left behind" was using our media as advertising.
It was advertising. It's not as if we were paid. People look at the article and say we were paid $240,000. It was in advertising. They used our media.
We taped a one minute commercial with Secretary Paige where we produced -- we did for about 20 minutes. We produced a one minute commercial. He had two, one minute commercial spots in our shows, on our commercial reel.
HEMMER: Stop again. Sorry.
You made money off this, right?
WILLIAMS: Our company did. We made money, yes.
HEMMER: In turn, you did because you are employed by the company. How often would you...
WILLIAMS: No, no, no -- not employed by the company, I own the company. There's a difference. HEMMER: OK, well, even better.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
HEMMER: How often did you come here on CNN and promote what you talked about, or wrote about or, in turn, were paid for?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I can't recall that because when I'm on CNN, we talk about issues of Iraq, when I'm on Wolf Blitzer's show, when I'm on "CNN MORNING."
I can't even recall if there is ever the time that we talked about "no child left behind." But certainly if the issue arises, it's very possible. I'm certainly going to talk about it because I'm an advocate for it.
HEMMER: Through our research, it appears back in October, on the 18th of October, you came on and talked about that very thing. Do you recall that discussion? Do you recall that conversation?
WILLIAMS: I wouldn't recall it, but it's quite possible. I mean, I appear on your broadcast quite often. And "no child left behind" is an issue that was consistently in the media for the last two years.
HEMMER: Let me just and clarify this. Can you understand how someone, you know, colleagues in the business here would consider this to be unethical possibly, perhaps with a bit of an odor that comes from it if, indeed, you're promoting values and in ideas and programs in exchange for cash?
WILLIAMS: Well, certainly I understand that. In fact, I made it clear in my interview with Greg, yesterday, from "USA Today" I can certainly understand how some people would feel that it was unethical.
You know, the thing about our shows, Bill, which I think you need to understand, many of the affiliates that we broadcast on, we can not use paid advertisers. Unless it's a public service announcement, many of our affiliates will not run it.
In our commercial reel, 90 percent of our commercials are PSAs. In the history of The Right Side Productions, the only advertisers that we've ever had is the National Rifle Association, since the beginning, "Forest (ph) Magazine" in the beginning, and just Anderson Brothers Bank out of my home town of Marion, South Carolina.
It's rare that we have paid advertisers. And so, yes, I understand. But the reason why this was able to work because not only was this a public service announcement, and so it passed the muster for some of our affiliates.
But I understand the conflict...
HEMMER: Sure.
WILLIAMS: ... and I understand why people would be concerned. HEMMER: One more thing here. We've got to run. I'm sorry. I'm out of time.
Would you do it again?
WILLIAMS: It's a judgment call. I have no problem with...
HEMMER: But if you do it again, would you tell folks? Would you tell your listeners and viewers?
WILLIAMS: I definitely -- I think I have an obligation to be more vociferous about the fact that they are advertising on our programming. And I definitely should acknowledge that to the public, yes.
HEMMER: Well, thanks for coming and clearing it up. We wanted to get your side of the story, and you gave it to us. So thanks, Armstrong, appreciate it.
WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. I appreciate your having me.
HEMMER: Armstrong Williams down there in D.C. -- Heidi?
COLLINS: If you're still thinking about giving to the tsunami relief effort, it looks like you've got some new incentive. Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business" ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Jobs report out from labor department. And Serwer has got that and a look at the markets "Minding Your Business."
Not a bad number.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Not a bad -- a little disappointing, but not a whole lot of fireworks, Jack.
The number for the month of December, the jobs report, 157,000. We were expecting 175,000 -- a little transpose there of the couple digits.
Unemployment rate holds at 5.4 percent. Retailing week, manufacturing up. That's the first time in many, many moons that we've added jobs in that sector.
More interesting, much more interesting is the jobs numbers for the entire year. Of course that was the last month. We gained 2.2 million jobs in this country last year.
In '03, for instance, we lost 63,000. That 2.2 million jobs, the most jobs added since 1999...
HEMMER: Wow. SERWER: ... when we added 3.2 million.
For some people still trying to understand why President Bush was reelected, this is certainly a proximate cause. We've ended up adding a lot of jobs. People were concerned about that, remember...
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: ... over the summer going into the election...
CAFFERTY: 3.2 million...
SERWER: It ended up being a very good year.
CAFFERTY: 3.2 million is not a...
SERWER: Respectable.
CAFFERTY: ... not a cheesy number.
SERWER: That's right.
CAFFERTY: All right.
SERWER: I want to talk about this tsunami tax break story. Both the House and Senate have passed a bill that will allow Americans to get a tax break through January 1 -- January 31, I should say.
If they make contributions to tsunami relief, they will be able to get a tax break if they make that donation before the end of this month. The president has yet to sign this bill. He is expected to do so, apparently.
Millions of Americans have given millions of dollars. For instance, the American Red Cross has already received $119 million in pledges.
CAFFERTY: Wow.
SERWER: Can we afford to do it? I think we can.
CAFFERTY: You know, the generosity of the people of this country is really something to behold.
SERWER: That's stacks up pretty well against certain countries in the Middle East, as you've been talking about over the past couple of days.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: Moving on to the "Cafferty File," a baby hippopotamus, which was orphaned by the tsunami -- see how we tie all these stories together? This little theme that runs...
SERWER: Taxes and the hippopotamus.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
Orphaned by the tsunami has been adopted by a 120-year-old giant tortoise in a Kenyan wildlife sanctuary.
This ain't' Earth moving news, but we're doing it because I like the picture. That's...
HEMMER: Look at that. And they're off.
In the lead is...
COLLINS: Sweet.
CAFFERTY: That's Owen on the left there. He is the hippo.
He was found dehydrated after being swept away from his herd at a river that drains into the Indian Ocean. Owen was attracted to the tortoise name Mzee, which is Swahili for old man -- He's 120, you see -- because of Mzee's dark gray color, which is similar to adult hippo's dark gray color.
Despite their age difference, the two have become very close. They eat, swim and sleep together. And Owen has even been seen licking the tortoise.
SERWER: Lick the tortoise, huh?
HEMMER: Too much information.
COLLINS: These are animals. Come on.
CAFFERTY: The results are in for the stupidest consumer warning labels. The group, Michigan Lawsuit Abuse Watch, has chosen three product warnings as its winners.
In third place is a digital thermometer whose instructions are -- well, it's only a couple of things you can do with a thermometer.
SERWER: Where should I put this?
CAFFERTY: And if you think about it, you can probably figure it out.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Number two is a children's scooter that bears this warning label, this product moves when used.
And the grand prize winner is a toilet brush with the advice, do not use for personal hygiene.
And keeping with our theme, if you're looking for a calendar for the new year, the "America's Sexiest Plumbers" hits the stores on Monday. A bath and kitchen company, American Standard, launched a nationwide search that resulted in 13 finalists, one of whom is a woman. The calendar is supposed to recognize the contributions that plumbers make to our lives.
One finalist, Tom Schohill (ph) of Torrington, Connecticut even goes so far as to say this, "our country's economic power is stronger because of America's plumbers."
HEMMER: Indeed it is.
CAFFERTY: Owen has been seen licking the tortoise.
SERWER: Be careful when you lick the tortoise.
HEMMER: I see that thread, Jack. It works right through there.
CAFFERTY: It's a little theme show, here.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Top stories in a moment here, including a CNN exclusive today. John King is with Colin Powell.
What does the secretary of state say that he will take away the most from his trip in Southeast Asia?
That's up after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 7, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: 8:30 in New York. It was raining this time yesterday. It's still chilly outside, but that's all right. Good for the commute.
Soledad is in Thailand again, today. We'll get back to her at the top of the hour. We'll have -- covering, rather, the latest information that we're getting out of that region.
In the next 30 minutes, though, a number of topics to get to here. We'll talk to a key player, maybe the key player, in the confirmation hearings for Alberto Gonzales. Senate judiciary chairman, Arlen Specter, my guest in a moment.
Will Gonzales get the job, and is Specter satisfied with answers he heard yesterday?
Also, there's a TV pundit out there who got behind the president's education proposals. There's a catch, though. The White House paid him about a quarter of a million dollars to do it.
Armstrong Williams is with us today about why he took the money. And we'll talk to him in a matter of moments.
First though, we went to get to the very latest on the developments in the tsunami story. U.N. secretary-general, Kofi Annan, now in Sri Lanka meeting with officials overseeing the biggest relief effort the U.N. has ever been involved in.
He's just out of Sumatra, Indonesia where he said at the time, "I have never seen such utter destruction mile after mile. And you wonder, where are the people? What happened to them?"
Secretary of State Colin Powell in Sri Lanka now, this morning, talking with CNN's John King about concerns there -- that is whether or not there's too much competition and possibly too much chaos, too, in the aid effort.
Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: ... chaos and confusion?
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I don't think there will be competition so much as so many people trying to do the right thing. And speaking to our USAID people here, so far they have been able to coordinate the effort of all of these different groups.
And as you know, we have some military personnel on the ground that I think can also play a useful role in coordinating all of these well-meaning organizations.
The demand is great. There are a lot of people in need. So there should be a flood of organizations coming in. And we have to make sure that we rationalize what we are doing in each of these countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: More with Colin Powell next hour, again with John King exclusively, today, from Sri Lanka.
Also from India, to the west of it, a different view of the tsunami today -- a 16-year-old boy visiting a shrine a few hundred yards off the southern tip of India. He took this videotape as the giant waves broke in front of him.
He and other tourists had no idea what was happening, obviously. They did not know about the massive quake or the deadly tsunamis that were now rolling over the sea in front of them.
They only knew that the ferry that was supposed to pick them up was running late. When the tide went out and the sea bed was exposed, some people were considering walking back to the mainland until that giant wave then rushed in went by them.
They are OK. But it is, again, a very unique perspective on what we all now know from two weeks ago.
And it seems, Heidi, that we're just going to continue to get these stories day after day...
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we do care a lot about it.
HEMMER: ... because you have these nuggets just keep on popping up every day that we sit here. And again, that from southern India.
COLLINS: People just not realizing what they were in. That's for sure.
HEMMER: So true, yes.
COLLINS: We have other news to tell you about, though, this morning, at this time.
Now in the news, Jerusalem police have apparently released Mustafa Barghouti, one of the presidential candidates hoping to replace Yasser Arafat.
Barghouti was detained earlier this morning in East Jerusalem. Israeli police say he violated an agreement in which candidates are not allowed to campaign in areas sacred to both Jews and Moslems.
Barghouti is not expected to when Sunday's vote but could come in a close second.
The husband of Andrea Yates says he hopes she'll finally be sent to a mental hospital for treatment. Rusty Gates spoke last night on LARRY KING LIVE just hours after an appeals court in Texas overturned his wife's murder convictions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL YATES, HUSBAND OF ANDREA YATES: I would like to see them drop the charges against her. And I would like to see her go to a state mental hospital until she is well and safe.
And that could take, you know, a while. I mean, she's still not stable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Andrea Yates had been found guilty of drowning three of her five children. Her husband is urging prosecutors to drop charges and not retry the case.
Prosecutors still undecided about trying to re-charge the defendant in a highly publicized spy case. A federal judge yesterday threw out all criminal charges against Katrina Leung.
She was accused of illegally obtaining secret documents from an FBI agent with whom she was romantically involved. The judge said prosecutors prevented Leung from having access to her former lover, which kept her from getting information about the case.
And a telethon for tsunami victims on Saudi Arabian television. The fundraiser pulling in $77 million, including $25 million from individual members of the Saudi royal family.
Added to that, $500 million from the Saudi-based, Islamic Development Bank. The telethon followed criticism that Saudi Arabia had not done enough to help in the tsunami relief efforts.
HEMMER: About 25 minutes, now, before the hour.
Heidi, thanks for that.
Alberto Gonzales, we know he was in the hot seat yesterday. He may be a step closer today to becoming the nation's first Hispanic attorney general.
Gonzales withstood some tough questioning yesterday from members of the Senate judiciary committee at his confirmation hearing. And Pennsylvania senator, Arlen Specter, is the committee chairman there -- the new chairman, we should say.
And the senator is my guest now on Capitol Hill.
Good morning to you.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning. Nice -- Nice to be with you.
HEMMER: Well, thank you.
You asked Alberto Gonzales yesterday, do you approve of torture?
His answer was, absolutely not.
Were you satisfied?
SPECTER: Well, I think that Judge Gonzales went a long way to emphasize that it is not his idea and not the administration's policy on torture. And I think that he handled the very controversial department of justice memorandum from August 2002 well.
That memo had articulated very, very broad powers for the president. And I asked him if he questioned -- one of the conclusions of that memo was that the president had as much authority to question detainees as he had for battlefield decisions. And Judge Gonzales said that was flatly -- flatly wrong.
Well, there is no doubt a lot of mistakes were made at Abu Ghraib and also in Guantanamo. And the issue before the committee was what role, if any, Judge Gonzales played.
HEMMER: In one of his answers, he says, and quoting now. We can put on the screen for our viewers to see.
He says, "Contrary to reports, I consider the Geneva conventions neither obsolete or quaint. Torture and abuse will not be tolerated by this administration."
That was recently -- yesterday, in fact, January of 2005.
Go back three years in a memo to the president, January of 2002. He says, the current war on terror, and quoting now, "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."
Did he clarify what appears to be or what could be possibly a contradiction in his testimony?
SPECTER: Well, I think -- I think he did clarify it. And I think he did change significantly the position which had evolved from this department of justice 2002 memorandum.
That memo had given a very, very narrow interpretation of what constituted torture, giving really great latitude. And there was this process of what they called migration, moving from Guantanamo, to Iraq, to Abu Ghraib.
And taking that memo, and the department of defense working group and then going to the field many layers down, really interpreting it in a way which was just not in accordance with United States values. And I think it was important that there be recognition of the mistakes of the past and a determination to correct them.
HEMMER: Do you believe those now who had reservations about Alberto Gonzales should not have reservations any more, based on what he said yesterday?
SPECTER: Well, some of his answers were not entirely satisfactory. But when you ask a man to recall what specific conversations were three years ago, it's very hard to do that.
I think overall Judge Gonzales acquitted himself well. And when the hearings were winding down late yesterday afternoon, I think it was significant that Senator Leahy and Senator Kennedy were asking Judge Gonzales if he would be willing to work with them on a variety of issues. When you talk about the future, that sort of assumes confirmation.
I'm not counting any chickens until the eggs are hatched. And I know there are some reservations in a number of corners. And Judge Gonzales got some tough questioning from some of us Republicans as well as Democrats.
But I think it's the duty of the committee, the president's party as well as the loyal opposition to ask tough questions. And I think Judge Gonzales acquitted himself reasonably well -- not perfectly, but reasonably well.
HEMMER: Thank you, senator.
SPECTER: Good to be with you.
HEMMER: And I know that you've recently had a bit of surgery. How's your health?
SPECTER: My health is fine. I didn't have any surgery. I had a little too much sun...
HEMMER: OK.
SPECTER: ... and I'm taking care of my nose. My nose wasn't too good to start with. I don't want it to get any worse.
HEMMER: Good luck to you. Thank you.
SPECTER: Thank you.
HEMMER: Happy New Year to you. Senator Arlen Specter, there.
That Gonzales story also kicks off this week's edition of "Gimme A Minute."
From D.C., Democratic strategist, Julian Epstein, back with us. Julian, good morning to you.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill. HEMMER: And Republican strategist, Tara Setmayer back with us as well. Hey, Tara, good morning. Happy New Year.
TARA SETMAYER, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Same to you.
HEMMER: And from the borowitzreport.com, the man lives and breathes again today. Andy Borowitz back with us again.
How are you, Drew? Good morning to you.
ANDY BOROWITZ, "BOROWITZREPORT.COM": Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Julian, start with you. Alberto Gonzales -- was his testimony good enough for you?
EPSTEIN: Well, here is a guy who was deeply involved in the torture memos. He was a guy who was widely regarded by many as having obstructed the 9/11 commission, widely regarded as having botched the Kerik vetting process. But still, in the words of one senator, a lot better than John Ashcroft.
So this administration continues to benefit from low expectations.
HEMMER: Tara, how do you think? Low expectations, or how did he hold up?
SETMAYER: Well, I think he epitomizes the American dream, coming from migrant workers in Texas. He sold sodas at Rice University, dreaming to go there one day, which he did.
He graduated from Harvard law school, became a supreme court justice of Texas. He's more than capable. He answered the questions well. And he would serve this country very, very well.
HEMMER: All right.
SETMAYER: He was not a part of the torture memos. He was -- He was examining the parameters of the law, which is what he is supposed to do.
HEMMER: What's your testimony, Andy?
BOROWITZ: You know, I think he is an improvement over Ashcroft. I mean, there is the whole torture thing, but at least he doesn't sing.
HEMMER: We'll count those chickens.
Tara, the president's approval rating in the Gallup poll now back over 50 percent. What's going on here?
SETMAYER: Well, it doesn't surprise me. It's consistent with what the -- what the American people exhibited in November. Despite the sour grapes of the Democrats, the American people like this president. And this is evidenced by the Gallup poll. So they need to just get over it and realize that the American people like him.
HEMMER: To be exact, it's at 52 percent.
What's behind the rebound, Julian?
EPSTEIN: Oh, I don't know how much of a rebound it is. Again, talking about low expectations, this is one of the lowest approval ratings for a second term president in modern times.
And if you combine that with the right track, wrong track direction, most of the public still thinking that we're on the wrong track, you have to come to one conclusion, this White House and this president did not win the election, rather the Democrats lost the election by running a mediocre campaign.
HEMMER: Well, your words...
SETMAYER: The president...
HEMMER: Hang on, Tara. You're breaking the rules, for crying out loud.
Here's Borowitz.
BOROWITZ: You know, there's even better news in this poll. Fifty-five percent approve of the job Dick Cheney is doing as president.
HEMMER: Three points better.
Back to Julian. Word from D.C. is that the Democrats are asking Terry McAuliffe to stay on as head of DNC for at least another year, maybe beyond that. What explains why they would do that, given the performance back in November?
EPSTEIN: Well, I don't think Terry wants the job. I don't think his wife wants him to take the job. He's a good guy, a good friend of mine. But I think the same way John Kerry is not going to be the nominee in '08, the Democrats are looking to some young, fresh blood.
This is going to be a wide open race. There is no clear front runner. It's going to be a cat fight in the month of November. And that's going to be good for you, Bill, because that's cable ratings week.
HEMMER: All right. We'll take that.
Some say that the whole idea here is to keep Howard Dean away from the head position there at the DNC.
EPSTEIN: That's not too bad...
HEMMER: Is that what's going on?
EPSTEIN: Well, that -- maybe a little bit of that.
HEMMER: All right. Tara, do you believe it?
SETMAYER: Well, this demonstrates that the Democratic Party's running around like a chicken with its head cut off. They have no focus.
Even Donna Brazile and other pundits in the Democratic Party have said that they need to have some soul searching and direction. And going -- taking steps backwards to keep Terry McAuliffe I don't think is showing progress.
HEMMER: All right. Here's to Andy. Who's your paddy (ph), Andy?
BOROWITZ: You know, I think it's time for the Democrats to pass the torch to a new generation of losers.
SETMAYER: I agree.
HEMMER: Under the radar. Tara, start us off. What did we miss this past week that o you consider significant?
SETMAYER: Well, amidst all of this grim, international news I found some political comedic humor yesterday on the floor of the House with the Democrats ranting and raving over the electoral votes in Ohio.
I think it's pathetic. We won the election. Maxine Waters and Michael Moore need to get together as the news Scully and Mulder and try -- as X-Files -- and try to find out where these electoral votes came from and the men in suits who allegedly intimidated voters.
Enough is enough.
HEMMER: Four hours there on Capitol Hill, yesterday.
Julian, what's on your radar?
EPSTEIN: The under covered story is Bush and the conservative movement viciously attacking the critics who said that they moved too slowly and too stingily on the tsunami disaster.
And then turning around and agreeing with such critics by moving with dispatch to increase the $15 million aid package by a 20-fold figure to over $300 million.
HEMMER: All right. A lot of numbers there.
Andy, what's happening over there?
BOROWITZ: Bill, the Mars rover has lasted longer than anyone expected it to, inspiring NASA scientists to change its name from Spirit to Rumsfeld.
HEMMER: And it's still going now. BOROWITZ: Still going.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy. Thanks, Tara. Thanks, Julian.
Have a great weekend. And again, Happy New Year to all three of you.
EPSTEIN: Thanks again.
SETMAYER: Thanks.
BOROWITZ: Thanks.
HEMMER: All right -- Heidi?
COLLINS: I want to go head and check on the weather now. Chad Myers once again standing by. Good morning, Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Heidi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MYERS: Back to you.
HEMMER: Yes, I bet.
COLLINS: All right, Chad, thanks.
HEMMER: Well, there's a famous talk show host now being paid by the White House to push an agenda on education. Listeners apparently had no idea it was happening.
Armstrong Williams is the guy in the focus here. His side of the story in a moment next.
COLLINS: Plus, still want to donate to tsunami relief? Well, it looks like Uncle Sam has a reward for you if you do.
Andy's Serwer is "Minding Your Business." We'll talk about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: There's a TV commentator reportedly admitting accepting money to promote President Bush's education policy.
According to "USA Today" today, Armstrong Williams was paid $240,000 to plug the "no child left behind" act in his syndicated broadcast. Some are now suggesting this deal raises ethical questions and possibly a congressional investigation.
Armstrong Williams with me from D.C., and good morning to you.
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, TV COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Bill. How are you?
HEMMER: I'm doing fine. What did you do in return for the money?
WILLIAMS: Well, Bill, the -- we were subcontracted to Catch Em (ph). And what we were doing, they used our media. We own our syndication, the rights side, where we syndicate our shows all of the country.
And with many of the affiliates, we have to pay them. And especially, in particular markets that they wanted this "no child left behind" to be on their airwaves, they paid for advertising time is what they paid for.
And in addition to that, which is what our contract called for -- I made it clear because it's something that really believed in as a commentator, something I wrote often about -- that I would use my contacts with people that I knew in different media outlets from time to time to get them to talk about "no child left behind"...
HEMMER: OK. Stop there. A couple of questions here.
Did you disclose to your readers, did you disclose to your viewers about the transaction?
WILLIAMS: Listen, I disclosed to different people whose airwaves that we use. I disclosed it to different commentators. I don't -- I can't recall whether I disclosed it to the audience or not.
HEMMER: All right. But part of your job is to persuade people, right? And part of your job is to present arguments that you believe in. And if you did present those arguments and were getting money in return for it, why not tell people?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, it's not as if it was an issue that I did not want to tell them. If issue did come up on the air, I made a very clear that we had a professional relationship where "no child left behind" was using our media as advertising.
It was advertising. It's not as if we were paid. People look at the article and say we were paid $240,000. It was in advertising. They used our media.
We taped a one minute commercial with Secretary Paige where we produced -- we did for about 20 minutes. We produced a one minute commercial. He had two, one minute commercial spots in our shows, on our commercial reel.
HEMMER: Stop again. Sorry.
You made money off this, right?
WILLIAMS: Our company did. We made money, yes.
HEMMER: In turn, you did because you are employed by the company. How often would you...
WILLIAMS: No, no, no -- not employed by the company, I own the company. There's a difference. HEMMER: OK, well, even better.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
HEMMER: How often did you come here on CNN and promote what you talked about, or wrote about or, in turn, were paid for?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I can't recall that because when I'm on CNN, we talk about issues of Iraq, when I'm on Wolf Blitzer's show, when I'm on "CNN MORNING."
I can't even recall if there is ever the time that we talked about "no child left behind." But certainly if the issue arises, it's very possible. I'm certainly going to talk about it because I'm an advocate for it.
HEMMER: Through our research, it appears back in October, on the 18th of October, you came on and talked about that very thing. Do you recall that discussion? Do you recall that conversation?
WILLIAMS: I wouldn't recall it, but it's quite possible. I mean, I appear on your broadcast quite often. And "no child left behind" is an issue that was consistently in the media for the last two years.
HEMMER: Let me just and clarify this. Can you understand how someone, you know, colleagues in the business here would consider this to be unethical possibly, perhaps with a bit of an odor that comes from it if, indeed, you're promoting values and in ideas and programs in exchange for cash?
WILLIAMS: Well, certainly I understand that. In fact, I made it clear in my interview with Greg, yesterday, from "USA Today" I can certainly understand how some people would feel that it was unethical.
You know, the thing about our shows, Bill, which I think you need to understand, many of the affiliates that we broadcast on, we can not use paid advertisers. Unless it's a public service announcement, many of our affiliates will not run it.
In our commercial reel, 90 percent of our commercials are PSAs. In the history of The Right Side Productions, the only advertisers that we've ever had is the National Rifle Association, since the beginning, "Forest (ph) Magazine" in the beginning, and just Anderson Brothers Bank out of my home town of Marion, South Carolina.
It's rare that we have paid advertisers. And so, yes, I understand. But the reason why this was able to work because not only was this a public service announcement, and so it passed the muster for some of our affiliates.
But I understand the conflict...
HEMMER: Sure.
WILLIAMS: ... and I understand why people would be concerned. HEMMER: One more thing here. We've got to run. I'm sorry. I'm out of time.
Would you do it again?
WILLIAMS: It's a judgment call. I have no problem with...
HEMMER: But if you do it again, would you tell folks? Would you tell your listeners and viewers?
WILLIAMS: I definitely -- I think I have an obligation to be more vociferous about the fact that they are advertising on our programming. And I definitely should acknowledge that to the public, yes.
HEMMER: Well, thanks for coming and clearing it up. We wanted to get your side of the story, and you gave it to us. So thanks, Armstrong, appreciate it.
WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. I appreciate your having me.
HEMMER: Armstrong Williams down there in D.C. -- Heidi?
COLLINS: If you're still thinking about giving to the tsunami relief effort, it looks like you've got some new incentive. Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business" ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Jobs report out from labor department. And Serwer has got that and a look at the markets "Minding Your Business."
Not a bad number.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Not a bad -- a little disappointing, but not a whole lot of fireworks, Jack.
The number for the month of December, the jobs report, 157,000. We were expecting 175,000 -- a little transpose there of the couple digits.
Unemployment rate holds at 5.4 percent. Retailing week, manufacturing up. That's the first time in many, many moons that we've added jobs in that sector.
More interesting, much more interesting is the jobs numbers for the entire year. Of course that was the last month. We gained 2.2 million jobs in this country last year.
In '03, for instance, we lost 63,000. That 2.2 million jobs, the most jobs added since 1999...
HEMMER: Wow. SERWER: ... when we added 3.2 million.
For some people still trying to understand why President Bush was reelected, this is certainly a proximate cause. We've ended up adding a lot of jobs. People were concerned about that, remember...
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: ... over the summer going into the election...
CAFFERTY: 3.2 million...
SERWER: It ended up being a very good year.
CAFFERTY: 3.2 million is not a...
SERWER: Respectable.
CAFFERTY: ... not a cheesy number.
SERWER: That's right.
CAFFERTY: All right.
SERWER: I want to talk about this tsunami tax break story. Both the House and Senate have passed a bill that will allow Americans to get a tax break through January 1 -- January 31, I should say.
If they make contributions to tsunami relief, they will be able to get a tax break if they make that donation before the end of this month. The president has yet to sign this bill. He is expected to do so, apparently.
Millions of Americans have given millions of dollars. For instance, the American Red Cross has already received $119 million in pledges.
CAFFERTY: Wow.
SERWER: Can we afford to do it? I think we can.
CAFFERTY: You know, the generosity of the people of this country is really something to behold.
SERWER: That's stacks up pretty well against certain countries in the Middle East, as you've been talking about over the past couple of days.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: Moving on to the "Cafferty File," a baby hippopotamus, which was orphaned by the tsunami -- see how we tie all these stories together? This little theme that runs...
SERWER: Taxes and the hippopotamus.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
Orphaned by the tsunami has been adopted by a 120-year-old giant tortoise in a Kenyan wildlife sanctuary.
This ain't' Earth moving news, but we're doing it because I like the picture. That's...
HEMMER: Look at that. And they're off.
In the lead is...
COLLINS: Sweet.
CAFFERTY: That's Owen on the left there. He is the hippo.
He was found dehydrated after being swept away from his herd at a river that drains into the Indian Ocean. Owen was attracted to the tortoise name Mzee, which is Swahili for old man -- He's 120, you see -- because of Mzee's dark gray color, which is similar to adult hippo's dark gray color.
Despite their age difference, the two have become very close. They eat, swim and sleep together. And Owen has even been seen licking the tortoise.
SERWER: Lick the tortoise, huh?
HEMMER: Too much information.
COLLINS: These are animals. Come on.
CAFFERTY: The results are in for the stupidest consumer warning labels. The group, Michigan Lawsuit Abuse Watch, has chosen three product warnings as its winners.
In third place is a digital thermometer whose instructions are -- well, it's only a couple of things you can do with a thermometer.
SERWER: Where should I put this?
CAFFERTY: And if you think about it, you can probably figure it out.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Number two is a children's scooter that bears this warning label, this product moves when used.
And the grand prize winner is a toilet brush with the advice, do not use for personal hygiene.
And keeping with our theme, if you're looking for a calendar for the new year, the "America's Sexiest Plumbers" hits the stores on Monday. A bath and kitchen company, American Standard, launched a nationwide search that resulted in 13 finalists, one of whom is a woman. The calendar is supposed to recognize the contributions that plumbers make to our lives.
One finalist, Tom Schohill (ph) of Torrington, Connecticut even goes so far as to say this, "our country's economic power is stronger because of America's plumbers."
HEMMER: Indeed it is.
CAFFERTY: Owen has been seen licking the tortoise.
SERWER: Be careful when you lick the tortoise.
HEMMER: I see that thread, Jack. It works right through there.
CAFFERTY: It's a little theme show, here.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Top stories in a moment here, including a CNN exclusive today. John King is with Colin Powell.
What does the secretary of state say that he will take away the most from his trip in Southeast Asia?
That's up after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
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