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Bush Names Michael Chertoff for Homeland Security Secretary; Rescuers Save Baby from Flooded River; California Mountains Getting Record Snows

Aired January 11, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: Iraqi elections. Police were targets once again. A suicide car bomb exploded outside a police station in northern Tikrit. Six Iraqi officers were killed and four others were wounded.
The prosecution could wrap up its case today against the alleged ringleader in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. Specialist Charles Graner is accused of abusing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners. Graner's attorney says he was following orders. Prosecutors are expected to present videotaped testimony from some of the detainees.

It is 11 a.m. on the East Coast and 8 a.m. out west. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris in for Rick Sanchez.

DARYN KAGAN, CO-HOST: He is on assignment and continues to do so. I'm good -- I'm good morning. Good morning, I'm Daryn Kagan.

HARRIS: Good morning to you.

KAGAN: Yes, I'll get that straight.

Good morning.

We're going to begin with the developing story in our "CNN Security Watch." President Bush's new pick to head the Department of Homeland Security, the president calling Michael Chertoff a key figure in the war on terror.

Kathleen Koch is at the White House with more on the nomination.

Good morning.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Not only was this name the pick, Michael Chertoff very much a surprise here at the White House but also the timing of this announcement.

President Bush this morning planning to launch a push for one of the major initiatives of his second term, and that is Social Security reform. But in choosing 51-year-old federal appeals court Michael Chertoff to be the new secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Mr. Bush said he was choosing a talented, experienced public servant who'd a stellar career, a strong, decent man. And the president said that his pick, when head of the Justice Department's criminal division from 2001 to 2003, had been truly instrumental in helping pursue terrorists in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: September the 11th, 2001, he was managing the criminal division of the Department of Justice, an 800-person operation devoted to enforcing our nation's criminal laws. In the days after September 11, Mike helped trace the terrorist attacks to the al Qaeda network. He understood immediately that the strategy in the war on terrorists was to prevent attacks before they occur.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Mr. Chertoff is viewed as a loyal Republican, a neoconservative intellectual. And the president, in naming him, also pointed out something very important, that because of his long record of public service, he's already been approved by the Senate three different times, which should mean smooth sailing this go round.

The White House obviously not wanting a repeat of the Bernard Kerik flap last month.

Back to you.

KAGAN: Kathleen Koch at the White House. Kathleen, thank you.

HARRIS: Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has been doing a wonderful job in gathering reaction to Michael Chertoff's nomination to head the department. She joins us now from Washington live.

Good morning, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Michael Chertoff's name, as Kathleen mentioned, not one of those that had circulated on the grapevine in Washington or in homeland security circles. It was very much a surprise pick.

One official deeply involved in homeland security told me he was flabbergasted at Chertoff's nomination. In the wake of the Bernie Kerik debacle, as Kathleen mentioned, there is one obvious reason the president made this pick, and he mentioned it in the ceremony this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: He's been confirmed by the Senate three times. In all of his roles Mike has shown a deep commitment to the cause of justice and an unwavering determination to protect the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MESERVE: Indeed, a Republican leadership aide told CNN this morning Michael Chertoff will receive a warm welcome in the Senate. And while tough questions will be asked, there is no impediment to his confirmation.

The questions may revolve around Chertoff's time at the Justice Department where he was head of the criminal division and played a strong hand in post-9/11 policies, including the controversial arrest of about 1,000 illegal aliens who were held without charges.

Although Chertoff is regarded as an extraordinarily bright individual, there are people concerned that his focus has been exclusively on the law enforcement aspects of homeland security. They point out that he has no relationship with some of the key players in the field, namely, the governors, mayors, private sector and the citizens of the country.

He also has no experience managing any organization like the behemoth Department of Homeland Security, which many experts say needs a very strong hand to whip it into shape.

Back to you.

HARRIS: And Jeanne, let's clarify that. How much of a behemoth are we talking about? How many agencies and how many employees?

MESERVE: One hundred and eighty thousand employees are brought together.

HARRIS: Wow.

MESERVE: Twenty-two different agencies across government. It had been hoped that great synergies would be created within the department and we'd get more bang for our taxpayer dollar. It has not evolved that way thus far, though we are still in the early years.

People say this was a critical pick. This was the time that the department had to be made more effective.

HARRIS: That's a behemoth.

MESERVE: It is.

HARRIS: Jeanne Meserve in Washington. Jeanne, thank you.

A new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll is just out on terrorism. And there's less concern among the respondents. We asked Americans if they thought acts of terrorism were likely in the United States over the coming weeks.

Just 39 percent said yes. That's the lowest number for that particular question since the 9/11 attacks. On the flip side, 50 percent say no, a terrorist attack is not likely any time in the short run.

KAGAN: All right. So Michael Chertoff, he might be relatively unknown outside Washington. He, though, does, as Jeanne was reporting, have a long history in the most political of towns.

Elaine Shannon covers homeland security for "TIME" magazine, and she joins us from Washington.

Elaine, good morning.

ELAINE SHANNON, HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

KAGAN: So a lot of us this morning going who? But you know him.

SHANNON: Oh, yes. And he's a very disciplined man. He's a very tough man. He's the man who said, you know, right after 9/11, we need to wrap up not only the terrorists but anybody who's going to support them logistically and also these alien smuggling networks, document rings, fraud rings that unwittingly support terrorist causes. And we need to clean all of that up.

So you can blame him or thank him for having this zero tolerance policy on immigration violations.

KAGAN: Depending on your take there. So he has the law enforcement angle, but how does it fit into the bigger picture of this huge scope that homeland defense covers?

SHANNON: Well, that's going to be an interesting question as Jeanne pointed out, because defending vulnerable places is different from assaulting terrorists. One's offensive and one's defensive.

It is interesting to me that Mike Chertoff was one of the people who opposed Alberto Gonzales and some of the others at the White House when they proposed military tribunals for some of the terrorists. Chertoff is said to have believed that these people could be tried in the criminal justice system where he has spent his career.

KAGAN: Also want to pick up on something Jeanne was saying. That so far, and it is early, the Homeland Defense Department hasn't exactly evolved as some were perhaps hoping.

I want to go even farther into the future and look at what's coming: this NID, national intelligence director. How will the department respond to that, and how will Michael Chertoff fit in whoever that is going to be?

SHANNON: Well, nobody knows. And I've been talking to a lot of people at the FBI, justice, et cetera. And they're not quite sure -- and at the CIA -- how this is going to come down. So much depends on the personality of the person, his relationship with the president and how fast the boxes can be moved to other boxes.

KAGAN: All right. Speaking of boxes, interesting boxes ling up in Washington, also looking into Michael Chertoff's past. He was chief counsel for the Whitewater investigation. So that could set up intriguing -- let's just say conversations. Let's not put conflict out there. Conversations between him and Senator Hillary Clinton. SHANNON: That's true. I think that they probably won't be in public very much I don't think. Either one of them really wants to raise those.

Chertoff was very, very focused since 9/11 on getting the Justice Department and the immigration service and working closely with the FBI and getting them in shape to do what needed to be done. He was Ashcroft's strategist. And I think he's going to play an important role here in keeping the strategy going.

KAGAN: Finally, were you surprised this morning when you heard his name pop up?

SHANNON: Yes. As Jeanne said, this post has been viewed as sort of an ambassador to governors and mayors, state police agencies, local police agencies. I expected somebody who had a bigger political network, who was better known, a governor.

But it is important that someone be confirmed quickly, and Chertoff can certainly be confirmed quickly, I think.

KAGAN: As the president pointed out, he's done it three times, been confirmed by the Senate already.

SHANNON: Yes.

KAGAN: So he knows how to do that. Elaine Shannon from "TIME" magazine. Elaine, always good to have you on. Thank you.

SHANNON: Thank you.

KAGAN: On your television, on the Web, "CNN Security Watch" keeps you up to date on safety. Stay tuned day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

HARRIS: Let's get a quick look now at new developments this morning in the wild weather out west.

Rescue crews are searching for possible survivors today in La Conchita, California. A slab of mud peeled off a mountainside. At least three people were killed and more than a dozen houses damaged or buried.

A bolder three stories high is blocking a major road, Topanga Canyon Boulevard in Malibu. Attempts to blow up the rock failed due to heavy water saturation inside the boulder.

And authorities may bring charges against a woman they say drove her car around flood barricades. One of the woman's three children slipped from her grip during a helicopter rescue and drowned.

KAGAN: Well, we have another rescue story involving a baby. This one has a different story. The wild weather keeping rescuers on their toes. Firefighters in San Dimas Canyon pulled the baby to safety, not once, but twice after the boy slipped out of his mother's hands. KCAL reporter Dave Clark has the dramatic story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVE CLARK, KCAL REPORTER (voice-over): There's the rescued baby, safely in the arms of a brave firefighter, after the baby and his mother became trapped by the rushing waters. But this was the second time this baby was rescued.

Earlier, rescuers had the baby in a lifeboat and harness until the boat tipped over.

Let's look at that again, in slow motion, as the boat tips over, tossing the baby and the rescuer into the raging waters. Another firefighter, without a safety harness braves into the water to his partner.

Clutching the baby, a firefighter walks with it through the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the baby out of the clothes.

CLARK: Now in fresh, warm clothing and covered up, the baby heads for medical attention. Again, crossing a mountain stream, where an ambulance and paramedics were waiting to take care of him.

(on camera) And as you saw, it was a happy ending in San Dimas Canyon.

I'm Dave Clark, reporting for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: The firefighter was not going to let that baby go.

KAGAN: He went in without a safety harness.

HARRIS: He went out.

KAGAN: Maybe once the baby got away, but not twice.

HARRIS: Not twice.

KAGAN: Incredible.

HARRIS: Well, snow is piling high again today in California's mountains in what's turning out to be the region's snowiest winter in almost a century.

CNN meteorologist Rob Marciano is in the southern Sierras at Squaw Valley.

And what's it looking like? I know. What am I asking you that question for? Snow everywhere. What is that?

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You see, this is TV. Can't you see?

HARRIS: I can do better than that, yes.

MARCIANO: We're getting more snow, Tony. And we're at Squaw Valley right now. We're at about 6,200 feet, about the same elevation as Lake Tahoe. We've been here since Friday night, and it's been snowing heavily on and sometimes off.

Some shots of Lake Tahoe yesterday when it wasn't snowing. A beautiful spot at 6,200 feet, an alpine lake, one of the deepest in North America. And then the surrounding mountains just make for an incredible landscape.

But few and far between have been those clear breaks. Now this is what it looks like, again, a winter storm warning continues. Snowfall rates have been coming down, at times, at about two inches per hour. Since we've been on the air this morning at 7 a.m. Eastern, we've seen an additional six inches.

This is -- this is kind of a patio, where people can hang out and have a nice lunch on a sunny day. That's not going to happen today. This was clear last night, this table. So almost two feet of snow has fallen.

And look how light and fluffy it is. Get down low. Unbelievable. That is champagne powder. It was not like that last night. It was really compact. It was really wet. You could have snowballs and build a snowman. But now it's drying out. It's getting colder.

Finally, that storm that's offshore is coming on shore. That's where all the cold air is. And that's good news, because once we get this final push out of the way, we'll finally get into some dry air.

Yes, they love the snow. They need the snow. They had a drought the last couple years. This is all coming down at one time, and they've had a hard time keeping up.

Also, avalanche concern. At times -- I don't know if you can hear it -- explosions. It's like the Fourth of July this morning, trying to control avalanches. They do a great job of it.

But I wanted to know exactly what it's like and what you should do if you're caught in an avalanche. We met up with Will Paden here at Squaw Valley yesterday, took a ride in the hills, and he had this advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILL PADEN, AVALANCHE FORECASTER: You want to fight for your life and try to swim to the surface. And should you get feel like you're going to get buried, try to cover your mouth to give yourself a little bit of an airway to breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MARCIANO: Obviously, they take the threat for avalanche here very seriously. They keep the slopes that are inbound clear and safe. The folks that go out of bound are more threatened by that. And of course, they don't advise that until this storm is well gone.

Looks like it will be doing that tomorrow. In the meantime, another foot of snow possible here in the Sierras.

Live from Squaw Valley. Back to you guys in Atlanta.

HARRIS: Another foot? Is that rough. Thank you, thank you.

KAGAN: As the snow continues to fall there it will be tomorrow live from...

HARRIS: Yes. Up to the bridge of his nose.

KAGAN: Jacqui Jeras, keep an eye on where -- how things are playing out in the West and across the country. Hello.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: At least it's going to move, finally. Get it out of there. Move.

KAGAN: Yes, get on out. Thank you, Jacqui.

Well, residents of South Carolina, in a little town there, they still can't go home. It's been five days after a deadly train derailment.

HARRIS: The derailment caused a chlorine gas leak. And that again raises concerns about how vulnerable the nation's tanker cars are to a terrorist attack. We'll get one expert's insights.

KAGAN: A new lifeline has opened up in the region hardest hit by the tsunami. We'll take you there.

HARRIS: And at the half hour, homeland security chief Tom Ridge will be talking about security for next week's inauguration. Of course, CNN will have that live when it happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Workers are removing liquid chlorine from the site of a train wreck in South Carolina that released a cloud of toxic gas. The gas leak killed nine people and forced nearly 6,500 others to evacuate in the town of Graniteville. They won't be allowed to return home until tomorrow at the earliest.

But Aiken County sheriff told reporters just a few minutes ago the situation is improving.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF MICHAEL HUNT, AIKEN COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: Let me tell you, a lot of folks are working on this. We have a unified command here. We're working very close with the fire chief and all of our other agencies that have set up a unified command.

Things are getting better, and I think folks will notice a drastic improvement here in the next couple of days. They just need to bear with us. We're not out of the woods yet, but things are getting better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The accident in South Carolina raises concerns about trains carrying dangerous cargo through cities and towns across the country. In a "CNN Security Watch" report, Joe Johns looks at what the nation's capital is doing to prevent a potential disaster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An accidental release of chlorine gas from a train going through Washington, D.C., potentially deadly to thousands and crippling to the government, is for now, not much of a concern.

We invited former railroad administration official George Gavalla to the nation's capital to help assess railroad security just days before the inauguration. The big fear: that terrorists could blow up a tank car of deadly chemicals. A security gap was easy to find.

(on camera) This is the extent of security here?

(voice-over) A gate next to a track just blocks from the capital, wide open.

(on camera) Is there, by your estimation, any sign at all that this place is being policed by railway employees?

GEORGE GAVALLA, FORMER RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, at the moment, no. I guess it depends on how long we actually stay here.

JOHNS: After a citizen called to report us, police showed up. Forty minutes after we arrived they kicked us out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys really can't be up here.

JOHNS: The rail company CSX won't comment on what substances it transports and by which routes, so as not to tip off terrorists.

But after the Madrid train bombings, pressure from local officials led CSX to voluntarily reroute the most dangerous chemicals around Washington, according to D.C. council member Carol Schwartz. Schwartz tried to make the rerouting a law but now says the voluntary action is working.

CAROL SCHWARTZ, WASHINGTON, D.C., COUNCIL MEMBER: Of course, I would prefer that it be a mandate, but as long as it's being done, I feel like the intent of the legislation is being accomplished. JOHNS: Good news for Washington, says Gavalla.

GAVALLA: Some of the most dangerous commodities are being rerouted away from the district. That's certainly the safest course that can be taken.

JOHNS: But rerouting means higher risk for surrounding communities. A hard fact: when it comes to protecting urban populations from railway disasters, one city's safety can end up putting others in more danger.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: As we've been reporting this morning, President Bush has nominated federal Judge Michael Chertoff to be homeland security secretary.

One of the department's responsibilities is securing the nation's railroads. Let's get a closer look now at the danger posed by trains carry carrying toxic materials.

Bill Daly is senior vice president of Control Risks Group and a former FBI investigator. He joins us now from New York.

Bill, good morning.

BILL DALY, SVP, CONTROL RISKS GROUP: Good morning, Tony.

HARRIS: From the various hats you've worn, what is your assessment of rail system safety in the country?

DALY: Well, we would say that it's improving, although we do certainly have a way to go. Really, I think the focus of security didn't come into, really, the attention of Congress and getting the proper funding until early last year after the Madrid bombing.

That was certainly something that caused concern over passenger security, but embedded with that is looking at our rail security for freight.

Right now about 95 percent of the passenger system travels over freight lines, for example. And so there's -- there's kind of a duplicity of concern between freight and passenger.

But certainly, it's still out there. Terrorists have some built- in weapons, if we want to look at it that way...

HARRIS: Yes.

DALY: ... traveling on our rails every day.

HARRIS: Bill, what about the Madrid bombings? Did that ratchet up attention? DALY: It certainly ratcheted up attention. We're now -- we're balking (ph) through homeland security and through the railroad administration as well as other railroad association groups, private groups of railroad executives and members looking at the vulnerabilities.

And tried to come up with some safeguards that go beyond what was mentioned just earlier, which is rerouting, but actually looking at hardening containers, protecting them. Homeland security even last year had suggested at one point not to label them, although that causes -- causes some concern for emergency responders.

HARRIS: Bill, the basic problem here is you have miles upon miles of unprotected track out there.

DALY: Exactly. And probably estimates have been put at about 200,000 miles of track around this country. Many of it is in open areas, which aren't of greater concern. The ones that are of concern, of course, are the ones that are closer to major cities, to residential areas.

And it's those that will require much more attention from technology, which is being looked into with regard to protecting the rails from potential derailment or explosive devices, as well as I mentioned before, hardening the containers and maybe doing something different through chemicals.

HARRIS: Yes.

DALY: The National Chemical Council is also looking at ways to make them less volatile or at least compartmentalize containers so that they can't become a disaster, what we've seen in this past week down south.

HARRIS: Bill, what kind of technology is out there, sensor systems?

DALY: They're looking at sensors on rails to determine whether or not those rails have been tampered with. We're looking at more electronic systems to actually monitor people getting closer to -- to sensitive rail junctions, tunnels.

I know here in New York, you know, we now see more police posted outside of the entrance to tunnels that go under the East River and Hudson rivers, as well as technology, cameras and other things.

It certainly is wide open. We have to make it harder for the terrorists to -- to attack us. It doesn't mean that there isn't some vulnerability some place in the system. But once we start addressing it, I think we'll be much better off.

HARRIS: Bill, you can't do it with manpower alone, but you need manpower, as well.

DALY: There's certainly a concern and a need to put increased manpower. The police departments such as Amtrak, MTA, Metropolitan Transportation Authority here in New York, have been closely looking at it.

They've been increasing their patrols with K-9 dogs. They've been increasing those details so that we have much more closer scrutiny of not only just the passengers going through, but also going through freight yards.

So it is an evolving process, as we told you about. It's probably gotten the attention it should have, unfortunately, as a result of the Madrid bombing last year.

HARRIS: Yes, sounds like it.

DALY: But we're moving forward.

HARRIS: OK, Bill. Appreciate it. Bill Daly, thank you.

DALY: Tony, thank you.

HARRIS: "CNN Security Watch" keeps you up to date on safety. Stay tuned day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And stick around, outgoing homeland security secretary, Tom Ridge, will talk live about security plans for the presidential inauguration. It's coming up in just a few minutes, at 11:30 Eastern, 8:30 Pacific.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, coming up just nine days from the first presidential inauguration since 9/11. We have details on plans to keep the ceremonies and the festivities safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: And good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.

HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris. Let's get you caught up now with headlines now in the news.

President Bush this morning named his choice to succeed Tom Ridge as homeland security secretary. Michael Chertoff is a federal appeals court judge. Before that, he helped formulate the legal response to 9/11 when he worked at the Justice Department.

Crews are searching for possible survivors this morning, buried after a mudslide in La Conchita, California. Three people are confirmed dead, and more than a dozen people may be missing. The river of mud came down after weeks of heavy rain in Southern California.

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Aired January 11, 2005 - 11:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: Iraqi elections. Police were targets once again. A suicide car bomb exploded outside a police station in northern Tikrit. Six Iraqi officers were killed and four others were wounded.
The prosecution could wrap up its case today against the alleged ringleader in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. Specialist Charles Graner is accused of abusing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners. Graner's attorney says he was following orders. Prosecutors are expected to present videotaped testimony from some of the detainees.

It is 11 a.m. on the East Coast and 8 a.m. out west. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris in for Rick Sanchez.

DARYN KAGAN, CO-HOST: He is on assignment and continues to do so. I'm good -- I'm good morning. Good morning, I'm Daryn Kagan.

HARRIS: Good morning to you.

KAGAN: Yes, I'll get that straight.

Good morning.

We're going to begin with the developing story in our "CNN Security Watch." President Bush's new pick to head the Department of Homeland Security, the president calling Michael Chertoff a key figure in the war on terror.

Kathleen Koch is at the White House with more on the nomination.

Good morning.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Not only was this name the pick, Michael Chertoff very much a surprise here at the White House but also the timing of this announcement.

President Bush this morning planning to launch a push for one of the major initiatives of his second term, and that is Social Security reform. But in choosing 51-year-old federal appeals court Michael Chertoff to be the new secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Mr. Bush said he was choosing a talented, experienced public servant who'd a stellar career, a strong, decent man. And the president said that his pick, when head of the Justice Department's criminal division from 2001 to 2003, had been truly instrumental in helping pursue terrorists in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: September the 11th, 2001, he was managing the criminal division of the Department of Justice, an 800-person operation devoted to enforcing our nation's criminal laws. In the days after September 11, Mike helped trace the terrorist attacks to the al Qaeda network. He understood immediately that the strategy in the war on terrorists was to prevent attacks before they occur.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Mr. Chertoff is viewed as a loyal Republican, a neoconservative intellectual. And the president, in naming him, also pointed out something very important, that because of his long record of public service, he's already been approved by the Senate three different times, which should mean smooth sailing this go round.

The White House obviously not wanting a repeat of the Bernard Kerik flap last month.

Back to you.

KAGAN: Kathleen Koch at the White House. Kathleen, thank you.

HARRIS: Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has been doing a wonderful job in gathering reaction to Michael Chertoff's nomination to head the department. She joins us now from Washington live.

Good morning, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Michael Chertoff's name, as Kathleen mentioned, not one of those that had circulated on the grapevine in Washington or in homeland security circles. It was very much a surprise pick.

One official deeply involved in homeland security told me he was flabbergasted at Chertoff's nomination. In the wake of the Bernie Kerik debacle, as Kathleen mentioned, there is one obvious reason the president made this pick, and he mentioned it in the ceremony this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: He's been confirmed by the Senate three times. In all of his roles Mike has shown a deep commitment to the cause of justice and an unwavering determination to protect the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MESERVE: Indeed, a Republican leadership aide told CNN this morning Michael Chertoff will receive a warm welcome in the Senate. And while tough questions will be asked, there is no impediment to his confirmation.

The questions may revolve around Chertoff's time at the Justice Department where he was head of the criminal division and played a strong hand in post-9/11 policies, including the controversial arrest of about 1,000 illegal aliens who were held without charges.

Although Chertoff is regarded as an extraordinarily bright individual, there are people concerned that his focus has been exclusively on the law enforcement aspects of homeland security. They point out that he has no relationship with some of the key players in the field, namely, the governors, mayors, private sector and the citizens of the country.

He also has no experience managing any organization like the behemoth Department of Homeland Security, which many experts say needs a very strong hand to whip it into shape.

Back to you.

HARRIS: And Jeanne, let's clarify that. How much of a behemoth are we talking about? How many agencies and how many employees?

MESERVE: One hundred and eighty thousand employees are brought together.

HARRIS: Wow.

MESERVE: Twenty-two different agencies across government. It had been hoped that great synergies would be created within the department and we'd get more bang for our taxpayer dollar. It has not evolved that way thus far, though we are still in the early years.

People say this was a critical pick. This was the time that the department had to be made more effective.

HARRIS: That's a behemoth.

MESERVE: It is.

HARRIS: Jeanne Meserve in Washington. Jeanne, thank you.

A new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll is just out on terrorism. And there's less concern among the respondents. We asked Americans if they thought acts of terrorism were likely in the United States over the coming weeks.

Just 39 percent said yes. That's the lowest number for that particular question since the 9/11 attacks. On the flip side, 50 percent say no, a terrorist attack is not likely any time in the short run.

KAGAN: All right. So Michael Chertoff, he might be relatively unknown outside Washington. He, though, does, as Jeanne was reporting, have a long history in the most political of towns.

Elaine Shannon covers homeland security for "TIME" magazine, and she joins us from Washington.

Elaine, good morning.

ELAINE SHANNON, HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

KAGAN: So a lot of us this morning going who? But you know him.

SHANNON: Oh, yes. And he's a very disciplined man. He's a very tough man. He's the man who said, you know, right after 9/11, we need to wrap up not only the terrorists but anybody who's going to support them logistically and also these alien smuggling networks, document rings, fraud rings that unwittingly support terrorist causes. And we need to clean all of that up.

So you can blame him or thank him for having this zero tolerance policy on immigration violations.

KAGAN: Depending on your take there. So he has the law enforcement angle, but how does it fit into the bigger picture of this huge scope that homeland defense covers?

SHANNON: Well, that's going to be an interesting question as Jeanne pointed out, because defending vulnerable places is different from assaulting terrorists. One's offensive and one's defensive.

It is interesting to me that Mike Chertoff was one of the people who opposed Alberto Gonzales and some of the others at the White House when they proposed military tribunals for some of the terrorists. Chertoff is said to have believed that these people could be tried in the criminal justice system where he has spent his career.

KAGAN: Also want to pick up on something Jeanne was saying. That so far, and it is early, the Homeland Defense Department hasn't exactly evolved as some were perhaps hoping.

I want to go even farther into the future and look at what's coming: this NID, national intelligence director. How will the department respond to that, and how will Michael Chertoff fit in whoever that is going to be?

SHANNON: Well, nobody knows. And I've been talking to a lot of people at the FBI, justice, et cetera. And they're not quite sure -- and at the CIA -- how this is going to come down. So much depends on the personality of the person, his relationship with the president and how fast the boxes can be moved to other boxes.

KAGAN: All right. Speaking of boxes, interesting boxes ling up in Washington, also looking into Michael Chertoff's past. He was chief counsel for the Whitewater investigation. So that could set up intriguing -- let's just say conversations. Let's not put conflict out there. Conversations between him and Senator Hillary Clinton. SHANNON: That's true. I think that they probably won't be in public very much I don't think. Either one of them really wants to raise those.

Chertoff was very, very focused since 9/11 on getting the Justice Department and the immigration service and working closely with the FBI and getting them in shape to do what needed to be done. He was Ashcroft's strategist. And I think he's going to play an important role here in keeping the strategy going.

KAGAN: Finally, were you surprised this morning when you heard his name pop up?

SHANNON: Yes. As Jeanne said, this post has been viewed as sort of an ambassador to governors and mayors, state police agencies, local police agencies. I expected somebody who had a bigger political network, who was better known, a governor.

But it is important that someone be confirmed quickly, and Chertoff can certainly be confirmed quickly, I think.

KAGAN: As the president pointed out, he's done it three times, been confirmed by the Senate already.

SHANNON: Yes.

KAGAN: So he knows how to do that. Elaine Shannon from "TIME" magazine. Elaine, always good to have you on. Thank you.

SHANNON: Thank you.

KAGAN: On your television, on the Web, "CNN Security Watch" keeps you up to date on safety. Stay tuned day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

HARRIS: Let's get a quick look now at new developments this morning in the wild weather out west.

Rescue crews are searching for possible survivors today in La Conchita, California. A slab of mud peeled off a mountainside. At least three people were killed and more than a dozen houses damaged or buried.

A bolder three stories high is blocking a major road, Topanga Canyon Boulevard in Malibu. Attempts to blow up the rock failed due to heavy water saturation inside the boulder.

And authorities may bring charges against a woman they say drove her car around flood barricades. One of the woman's three children slipped from her grip during a helicopter rescue and drowned.

KAGAN: Well, we have another rescue story involving a baby. This one has a different story. The wild weather keeping rescuers on their toes. Firefighters in San Dimas Canyon pulled the baby to safety, not once, but twice after the boy slipped out of his mother's hands. KCAL reporter Dave Clark has the dramatic story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVE CLARK, KCAL REPORTER (voice-over): There's the rescued baby, safely in the arms of a brave firefighter, after the baby and his mother became trapped by the rushing waters. But this was the second time this baby was rescued.

Earlier, rescuers had the baby in a lifeboat and harness until the boat tipped over.

Let's look at that again, in slow motion, as the boat tips over, tossing the baby and the rescuer into the raging waters. Another firefighter, without a safety harness braves into the water to his partner.

Clutching the baby, a firefighter walks with it through the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the baby out of the clothes.

CLARK: Now in fresh, warm clothing and covered up, the baby heads for medical attention. Again, crossing a mountain stream, where an ambulance and paramedics were waiting to take care of him.

(on camera) And as you saw, it was a happy ending in San Dimas Canyon.

I'm Dave Clark, reporting for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: The firefighter was not going to let that baby go.

KAGAN: He went in without a safety harness.

HARRIS: He went out.

KAGAN: Maybe once the baby got away, but not twice.

HARRIS: Not twice.

KAGAN: Incredible.

HARRIS: Well, snow is piling high again today in California's mountains in what's turning out to be the region's snowiest winter in almost a century.

CNN meteorologist Rob Marciano is in the southern Sierras at Squaw Valley.

And what's it looking like? I know. What am I asking you that question for? Snow everywhere. What is that?

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You see, this is TV. Can't you see?

HARRIS: I can do better than that, yes.

MARCIANO: We're getting more snow, Tony. And we're at Squaw Valley right now. We're at about 6,200 feet, about the same elevation as Lake Tahoe. We've been here since Friday night, and it's been snowing heavily on and sometimes off.

Some shots of Lake Tahoe yesterday when it wasn't snowing. A beautiful spot at 6,200 feet, an alpine lake, one of the deepest in North America. And then the surrounding mountains just make for an incredible landscape.

But few and far between have been those clear breaks. Now this is what it looks like, again, a winter storm warning continues. Snowfall rates have been coming down, at times, at about two inches per hour. Since we've been on the air this morning at 7 a.m. Eastern, we've seen an additional six inches.

This is -- this is kind of a patio, where people can hang out and have a nice lunch on a sunny day. That's not going to happen today. This was clear last night, this table. So almost two feet of snow has fallen.

And look how light and fluffy it is. Get down low. Unbelievable. That is champagne powder. It was not like that last night. It was really compact. It was really wet. You could have snowballs and build a snowman. But now it's drying out. It's getting colder.

Finally, that storm that's offshore is coming on shore. That's where all the cold air is. And that's good news, because once we get this final push out of the way, we'll finally get into some dry air.

Yes, they love the snow. They need the snow. They had a drought the last couple years. This is all coming down at one time, and they've had a hard time keeping up.

Also, avalanche concern. At times -- I don't know if you can hear it -- explosions. It's like the Fourth of July this morning, trying to control avalanches. They do a great job of it.

But I wanted to know exactly what it's like and what you should do if you're caught in an avalanche. We met up with Will Paden here at Squaw Valley yesterday, took a ride in the hills, and he had this advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILL PADEN, AVALANCHE FORECASTER: You want to fight for your life and try to swim to the surface. And should you get feel like you're going to get buried, try to cover your mouth to give yourself a little bit of an airway to breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MARCIANO: Obviously, they take the threat for avalanche here very seriously. They keep the slopes that are inbound clear and safe. The folks that go out of bound are more threatened by that. And of course, they don't advise that until this storm is well gone.

Looks like it will be doing that tomorrow. In the meantime, another foot of snow possible here in the Sierras.

Live from Squaw Valley. Back to you guys in Atlanta.

HARRIS: Another foot? Is that rough. Thank you, thank you.

KAGAN: As the snow continues to fall there it will be tomorrow live from...

HARRIS: Yes. Up to the bridge of his nose.

KAGAN: Jacqui Jeras, keep an eye on where -- how things are playing out in the West and across the country. Hello.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: At least it's going to move, finally. Get it out of there. Move.

KAGAN: Yes, get on out. Thank you, Jacqui.

Well, residents of South Carolina, in a little town there, they still can't go home. It's been five days after a deadly train derailment.

HARRIS: The derailment caused a chlorine gas leak. And that again raises concerns about how vulnerable the nation's tanker cars are to a terrorist attack. We'll get one expert's insights.

KAGAN: A new lifeline has opened up in the region hardest hit by the tsunami. We'll take you there.

HARRIS: And at the half hour, homeland security chief Tom Ridge will be talking about security for next week's inauguration. Of course, CNN will have that live when it happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Workers are removing liquid chlorine from the site of a train wreck in South Carolina that released a cloud of toxic gas. The gas leak killed nine people and forced nearly 6,500 others to evacuate in the town of Graniteville. They won't be allowed to return home until tomorrow at the earliest.

But Aiken County sheriff told reporters just a few minutes ago the situation is improving.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF MICHAEL HUNT, AIKEN COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: Let me tell you, a lot of folks are working on this. We have a unified command here. We're working very close with the fire chief and all of our other agencies that have set up a unified command.

Things are getting better, and I think folks will notice a drastic improvement here in the next couple of days. They just need to bear with us. We're not out of the woods yet, but things are getting better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The accident in South Carolina raises concerns about trains carrying dangerous cargo through cities and towns across the country. In a "CNN Security Watch" report, Joe Johns looks at what the nation's capital is doing to prevent a potential disaster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An accidental release of chlorine gas from a train going through Washington, D.C., potentially deadly to thousands and crippling to the government, is for now, not much of a concern.

We invited former railroad administration official George Gavalla to the nation's capital to help assess railroad security just days before the inauguration. The big fear: that terrorists could blow up a tank car of deadly chemicals. A security gap was easy to find.

(on camera) This is the extent of security here?

(voice-over) A gate next to a track just blocks from the capital, wide open.

(on camera) Is there, by your estimation, any sign at all that this place is being policed by railway employees?

GEORGE GAVALLA, FORMER RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, at the moment, no. I guess it depends on how long we actually stay here.

JOHNS: After a citizen called to report us, police showed up. Forty minutes after we arrived they kicked us out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys really can't be up here.

JOHNS: The rail company CSX won't comment on what substances it transports and by which routes, so as not to tip off terrorists.

But after the Madrid train bombings, pressure from local officials led CSX to voluntarily reroute the most dangerous chemicals around Washington, according to D.C. council member Carol Schwartz. Schwartz tried to make the rerouting a law but now says the voluntary action is working.

CAROL SCHWARTZ, WASHINGTON, D.C., COUNCIL MEMBER: Of course, I would prefer that it be a mandate, but as long as it's being done, I feel like the intent of the legislation is being accomplished. JOHNS: Good news for Washington, says Gavalla.

GAVALLA: Some of the most dangerous commodities are being rerouted away from the district. That's certainly the safest course that can be taken.

JOHNS: But rerouting means higher risk for surrounding communities. A hard fact: when it comes to protecting urban populations from railway disasters, one city's safety can end up putting others in more danger.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: As we've been reporting this morning, President Bush has nominated federal Judge Michael Chertoff to be homeland security secretary.

One of the department's responsibilities is securing the nation's railroads. Let's get a closer look now at the danger posed by trains carry carrying toxic materials.

Bill Daly is senior vice president of Control Risks Group and a former FBI investigator. He joins us now from New York.

Bill, good morning.

BILL DALY, SVP, CONTROL RISKS GROUP: Good morning, Tony.

HARRIS: From the various hats you've worn, what is your assessment of rail system safety in the country?

DALY: Well, we would say that it's improving, although we do certainly have a way to go. Really, I think the focus of security didn't come into, really, the attention of Congress and getting the proper funding until early last year after the Madrid bombing.

That was certainly something that caused concern over passenger security, but embedded with that is looking at our rail security for freight.

Right now about 95 percent of the passenger system travels over freight lines, for example. And so there's -- there's kind of a duplicity of concern between freight and passenger.

But certainly, it's still out there. Terrorists have some built- in weapons, if we want to look at it that way...

HARRIS: Yes.

DALY: ... traveling on our rails every day.

HARRIS: Bill, what about the Madrid bombings? Did that ratchet up attention? DALY: It certainly ratcheted up attention. We're now -- we're balking (ph) through homeland security and through the railroad administration as well as other railroad association groups, private groups of railroad executives and members looking at the vulnerabilities.

And tried to come up with some safeguards that go beyond what was mentioned just earlier, which is rerouting, but actually looking at hardening containers, protecting them. Homeland security even last year had suggested at one point not to label them, although that causes -- causes some concern for emergency responders.

HARRIS: Bill, the basic problem here is you have miles upon miles of unprotected track out there.

DALY: Exactly. And probably estimates have been put at about 200,000 miles of track around this country. Many of it is in open areas, which aren't of greater concern. The ones that are of concern, of course, are the ones that are closer to major cities, to residential areas.

And it's those that will require much more attention from technology, which is being looked into with regard to protecting the rails from potential derailment or explosive devices, as well as I mentioned before, hardening the containers and maybe doing something different through chemicals.

HARRIS: Yes.

DALY: The National Chemical Council is also looking at ways to make them less volatile or at least compartmentalize containers so that they can't become a disaster, what we've seen in this past week down south.

HARRIS: Bill, what kind of technology is out there, sensor systems?

DALY: They're looking at sensors on rails to determine whether or not those rails have been tampered with. We're looking at more electronic systems to actually monitor people getting closer to -- to sensitive rail junctions, tunnels.

I know here in New York, you know, we now see more police posted outside of the entrance to tunnels that go under the East River and Hudson rivers, as well as technology, cameras and other things.

It certainly is wide open. We have to make it harder for the terrorists to -- to attack us. It doesn't mean that there isn't some vulnerability some place in the system. But once we start addressing it, I think we'll be much better off.

HARRIS: Bill, you can't do it with manpower alone, but you need manpower, as well.

DALY: There's certainly a concern and a need to put increased manpower. The police departments such as Amtrak, MTA, Metropolitan Transportation Authority here in New York, have been closely looking at it.

They've been increasing their patrols with K-9 dogs. They've been increasing those details so that we have much more closer scrutiny of not only just the passengers going through, but also going through freight yards.

So it is an evolving process, as we told you about. It's probably gotten the attention it should have, unfortunately, as a result of the Madrid bombing last year.

HARRIS: Yes, sounds like it.

DALY: But we're moving forward.

HARRIS: OK, Bill. Appreciate it. Bill Daly, thank you.

DALY: Tony, thank you.

HARRIS: "CNN Security Watch" keeps you up to date on safety. Stay tuned day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And stick around, outgoing homeland security secretary, Tom Ridge, will talk live about security plans for the presidential inauguration. It's coming up in just a few minutes, at 11:30 Eastern, 8:30 Pacific.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, coming up just nine days from the first presidential inauguration since 9/11. We have details on plans to keep the ceremonies and the festivities safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: And good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.

HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris. Let's get you caught up now with headlines now in the news.

President Bush this morning named his choice to succeed Tom Ridge as homeland security secretary. Michael Chertoff is a federal appeals court judge. Before that, he helped formulate the legal response to 9/11 when he worked at the Justice Department.

Crews are searching for possible survivors this morning, buried after a mudslide in La Conchita, California. Three people are confirmed dead, and more than a dozen people may be missing. The river of mud came down after weeks of heavy rain in Southern California.

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