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American Morning
Officials in La Conchita Say All Missing Accounted For, But Rescue Workers Still Continue Searching; FDA to Hear Arguments on Mevacor
Aired January 13, 2005 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: No mercy from the weather again today in the Midwest. Homes flooded to their attics. Another huge line of thunderstorms on the way now.
The hard rains causing havoc elsewhere out West. A train is knocked from its tracks. And on the interstates, whiteout fog causing a 200-car pile-up.
Also, cars tossed around like horseshoes after a huge explosion in one big city mall. And a royal scandal burning in England, after Prince Harry dresses up like a Nazi, all ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: Good morning, welcome everybody.
Lots happening this morning, including that rescue operation in La Conchita, California. We're going to talk to a member of the fire department out there find out what they have discovered about the folks who are missing in that mudslide.
HEMMER: Also, news of serious interest for anyone worried about your cholesterol. The FDA considering today whether to allow one of the statin drugs to be sold over the counter like aspirin or antacids.
We'll talk to a cardiologist about the likelihood of that happening; whether that's a good idea. So we'll have that for you this morning.
O'BRIEN: What's the question of the day, Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: No good deed going unpunished. The government of Indonesia has said they want America out of the country by March. The nation's vice president says the sooner Americans leave, the better. We'll take a look at how the United States ought to respond after spending $6 million a day trying to help the victims of the tsunami over there.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Let's get right to Carol Costello, she is in our New York bureau, with a look at the headlines this morning.
Hey, Carol. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN NEWS ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: Good morning, Soledad. Thank you.
"Now in the News": More violence in Iraq to tell you about. A group of gunmen in central Baghdad opened fire on a minibus today killing all six people onboard. Iraqi police say the insurgents also abducted a Turkish businessman, who was waiting for the bus outside of a hotel. The Turkish embassy in Baghdad now investigating.
East of Baghdad, Iraqi police say an aid to prominent Shiite Cleric Ali Ali Sistani was gunned down last night. The representative's son and four bodyguards also killed.
In Chicago, at least nine people injured by flying debris in a gas explosion at a shopping mall. Officials say last night's blast ripped a 150-foot long trench through the mall parking lot. One witness, who lives nearby, said the blast felt like a small earthquake. We'll hear from the city's fire commissioner, just ahead.
And Major League Baseball player who's test positive for steroids may soon face tougher guidelines. An announcement is expected today on a new testing program after an agreement was reached by players and owners yesterday. According to reports, first-time offenders could face suspension. More details expected later today.
Back to you.
O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, thanks very much.
Well, the rough weather that has been plaguing California is now making its way across the country, southern Nevada residents now dealing with the aftermath of heavy flooding there.
The heaviest deluge around Overton, near the Arizona boarder. That is where raging floodwaters knocked 21 Union Pacific freight cars off the tracks yesterday. No reports of any injury there's.
That is only one of numerous disruptions reported by the railroad all the way from the Pacific coast to Utah. There has been heavy damage in the area where Utah and Arizona and Nevada meet. Flooding in Utah so deep, officials say the only thing they can pair it to is a dam break. And flood warnings overnight for some of the areas around Flagstaff had folks there seeking higher ground.
In Indiana, it was dense fog that caused a 20-car pile-up. One person killed, 43 miles of the Indiana toll road were closed for six hours. Visibility was under a quarter of a mile.
Fog also causing serious problems in Michigan, I-96 just east of Lansing, is finally reopened this morning. The highway was closed after a massive pile-up yesterday involving about 200 cars and trucks. Two people died in the chain-reaction crash as dozens more were hurt. One person said it was like driving right into a white piece of paper.
More rain expected in Ohio today. Many rivers are still above flood stage, still rising, too. The Army Corps of Engineers releasing some water from major dams, trying to prevent a larger disaster if, in fact, they should spill over.
Parts of Ohio and West Virginia and Kentucky have all been underwater since last week. What's ahead for today? Chad Myers is at the CNN Center with the latest.
I don't know, Chad. Where do you want to begin this morning?
(WEATHER FORECAST)
HEMMER: Now to the latest in California, that mudslide killing at least 10 on Monday. Officials in La Conchita say all the missing accounted for, but rescue workers still continue searching through the day and night to find three victims still buried in the mud. It is unclear whether or not those people are still alive.
Jonathan Jesseman is an engineer with the Ventura County Fire Department; he is our guest now in California.
And I know it is early, again today. If you're still searching for three more victims, are you any closer to finding them?
JONATHAN JESSEMAN, ENGINEER, VENTURA CO. FIRE DEPT.: Bill, we're just doing the same thing we've been doing for the last two or three days now. We're still in a search mode. As far as we're concerned, there are still people in there and we're trying to find them.
HEMMER: Based on the reporting we have here, it's been since Tuesday early since any sign of life was detected there. What is the possibility that anyone can survive that now on this Thursday morning?
JESSEMAN: I'll give you that, Bill. It's slim. But nevertheless, we're going to continue our efforts.
HEMMER: Yesterday, you were with the father, Jimmy Wallits (ph), his name. He was there when they found his wife and three members of his family. How were you, as a rescuer, able to console him at such an incredible time of discovery for him?
JESSEMAN: Yeah, that was a tough time. We -- normally, we don't let the family members and the people in the area get too close to the rescue, but because of the environment at the time when this whole thing came down, the slide came down, the people were aggressively in there to help us.
Instead of fighting with them, we let them get involved and we basically put them to work. They really helped us out a lot. They worked their butts off. And they were a big help to us.
So -- but when it came time where we found his family, it was tough because he was pretty much looking over my shoulder as we were digging through the pile and debris and cutting and sawing and getting everything out of there.
And it was very difficult because we're trying to extricate his family, at the same time, we were trying not to expose them. And we wanted to do it in a very controlled environment. I mean, you just don't want to pop his family out in front of the father's eyes and for all to see. So it was tough.
Everybody in the neighborhood got together, and they helped carry the litter out of the wife and the three daughters. And I just hope this, you know, now he can have some closure that we found his family.
HEMMER: Yeah, indeed. Jonathan Jesseman, thank you for sharing this morning. Good luck today.
About 4:00 local time in California, as that search for three more victims continue there's. Thank you again and good luck.
JESSEMAN: Thank you.
HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A drug that helps prevent heart attacks could become a little bit easier to buy, but many doctors think it's not safe. The FDA is going to hear arguments today and tomorrow on whether Mevacor, a cholesterol lowering drug, should be sold without a prescription. Doctor Steven Nissen is a cardiologist with the Cleveland Clinic.
Nice to see you, Sir. Thanks for being with us.
There are some folks, as you well know, who say statins are so effective, that frankly, they should be put into the water almost like fluoride. Why do you think Mevacor, over the counter, is not a good idea?
I'm not sure you can hear me, Doctor Nissen. I'm going to check. Can you hear what I'm asking you? All right. Obviously you're having a little problem with our audio.
Dr. Nissan, we'll ask him to stand by while we fix the problem. Let's throw it back to Bill for just a moment.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
From London today, British tabloids in a flap this week over a serious wardrobe blunder by a young royal, leaving many wondering what was he thinking.
Prince Harry, in this photo, third in line for the throne, apologizing for donning a Nazi uniform for what Buckingham Palace now describes is a fancy dress party.
A photo, first published on the front-page of "The Sun" newspaper. You can see it there. Harry says in a statement "I'm very sorry if I caused any offense or embarrassment to anyone. It was a poor choice of costume and I apologize."
In our next hour, Sara Ferguson is here this morning, Prince Harry's former sister-in-law. We'll talk to her about the controversy from across the Atlantic. Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, a potential crisis for the Pentagon. The military faces a shortfall that it has not seen since 9/11. Is a drastic measure on the way?
Also, some graphic grand jury testimony apparently leaked in the Michael Jackson case. How damaging is that?
And Uncle Sam talks tough on lasers and airplanes, but is it going to keep us all safe? One pilot chimes in ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The FDA is going to hear arguments today and tomorrow on whether Mevacor, a cholesterol-lowering drug, should be sold without a prescription. Some doctors say it is not a good idea, it's not safe. Dr. Steven Nissen is a cardiologist with the Cleveland Clinic, joining us this morning.
Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.
DR. STEVEN NISSEN, CLEVELAND CLINIC: Nice to see you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Oh, look at that. I can hear you this time around. Fantastic.
Some people have said, as you know, that statins are so important and so effective, they almost should be put in the water like you put fluoride in the water. Why do you think that selling them over the counter is such a bad idea?
NISSEN: I have concerns both about the effectiveness of over- the-counter statins and also about their safety.
On the effectiveness side, there's the problem that people have to know they actually need the drug, and we're concerned that the people who actually take these drugs are what we call the worried well, individuals that think they're at risk for heart disease but aren't.
These are powerful drugs. If you don't need a drug, you shouldn't be taking a drug.
In addition, people at high risk for heart disease need larger doses of more powerful statins. This is a small dose of a relatively weak cholesterol-lowering drug. It may not be enough cholesterol lowering for some individuals.
O'BRIEN: What's the risk if someone says, boy, you know, heart disease runs in my family. I probably have high cholesterol. I've had a test, and it showed that I was in the 300 range. What would be the risk for someone like that to go and essentially grab something over the counter? What would be the big deal? NISSEN: All medications have risks. There are drug-drug interactions. If you take a common antibiotic, Erythromycin, with Mevacor, it raises blood levels and could induce toxicity which can be muscle breakdown or liver enzymes can go up.
You know, we need not take medications unless they're appropriate. Every medication has the potential for serious side effects, including the statin drugs. They are very, very safe. But you don't want to be taking a medication if you don't need it.
O'BRIEN: The FDA, in fact, turned down Merck's request to sell Mevacor over the counter four years ago. Has anything changed within the drug but also within the environment, let's say, that might make that something that would happen today?
NISSEN: Well, the company's done additional research. They're going to make the case before this FDA advisory panel, that they've really studied the problem. And that they've proven that there is both safety and effectiveness in administering them as over the counter drugs. This panel, which consists of physicians and even a consumer representative, will weigh the evidence and will take a vote.
The FDA frequently follows the advice of these panels, but doesn't have to, but usually does. And this is a very serious business. I think this panel will be very careful. The FDA will listen carefully. We're in a very tough environment right now regarding drug safety.
O'BRIEN: As far as the FDA goes, the environment's changed a lot, as you well know, in the wake of what happened with Vioxx. How do you think that will play a role potentially in approving Mevacor for an over the counter sale?
NISSEN: The Vioxx withdrawal does, in fact, undermine the probability this will be approved. There's a lot more scrutiny by physicians and the public and by the FDA itself regarding the safety of drugs. So I think we'll have to see, the evidence will be presented. I'm certain that the panel will consider it very carefully and we should get a good decision.
O'BRIEN: Two days of hearings ahead. Doctor Steven Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic.
Nice to see you sir, thank you very much.
NISSEN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, federal authorities now responding to a rash of incidents involving laser beams aimed at aircraft. In this morning's "Security Watch" new guidelines now require pilots to report laser sightings immediately to air traffic controllers, who will then advise law enforcement on the ground. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NORMAN MINETA, SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: We are treating lasers in the cockpit as a serious aviation safety matter. We will not allow careless people, making stupid choices, to put pilots and their passengers at risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Robert Sproc is a commercial pilot, also vice president of the Airline Pilot Security Alliance. He is my guest in Miami.
Good morning to you.
ROBERT SPROC, AIRLINE PILOT SECURITY ALLIANCE: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: This issue has been out there for two weeks. What do you make of Norm Mineta's announcement just yesterday?
SPROC: It's been out a lot longer than two weeks. We've learned about it since December 9th. It's very encouraging to hear the secretary address this publicly as a serious issue.
But at the Airline Pilots Security Alliance our experience has taught us with the arming pilots issue that the devil is in the details, into how the government actually implements what they talk about on camera. We've identified three major areas we think the Secretary Mineta should have gone to, which the advisory circular he was talking about yesterday falls dramatically short.
HEMMER: Let me stop you before you go to the three points. I want to hear them in a moment here. But this is what I'm trying to understand on the story.
Experts have told us the possibility of flash blinding both pilots at the same time is nearly impossible. If that's the case, why is this such a big issue at this point?
SPROC: Well, it may be nearly impossible and yet, we know pilots out there are being distracted by these lights. Years ago when casinos and hotels in Las Vegas were putting up lasers as an attraction to their facilities, they were getting into the cockpits of airplanes and distracting pilots from their primary duties of landing the airplane.
The FAA came along very quickly and said stop doing that. And they did, and there was no big problem. Now that we have this undercurrent of terrorism as being a possible threat, which the FBI identifies in their memo, which none of the pilots have seen yet, it seems to cloud the issue and people are saying this is an issue and it's not. Clearly several years ago when it was just a matter of distraction, it was serious enough to stop it then.
HEMMER: But then the FBI has also said it's not likely terrorism, most likely pranksters.
SPROC: They have also said, in their memo, right now the incidents are but they have identified that terrorists are interested in using this as a weapon. To pilots it doesn't matter if it's a terrorist or prankster. If you get blinded when you are trying to execute the aircraft in a critical phase of flight, that's going to be a problem.
HEMMER: You were going to, in your first answer, talk about some solutions you think may be offered for pilots for taking care of this issue. One of the things you propose is putting deflection equipment on airplanes. How likely is that? How would that work?
SPROC: Well, that's the third point that we'd like to get to. But, yes, there is detection equipment out there that can sense a laser beam being illuminated on an aircraft and perhaps give pilots an audible warning, so they don't have to have the laser energy into their eyes, to realize something is being directed at their aircraft. Much in the same way laser detectors are used by people who like to avoid speed traps today.
We know the military has developed this equipment. And we'd like to see that mandated by the FAA to be put on airplanes so the pilot doesn't have to lose his eyesight in order to realize there's a problem.
HEMMER: And quickly, the other two points you're pushing for are, what?
SPROC: The information flow here is, again, back to a September 10th mentality, where the government is wanting all the information to come in. We know following the shoe bomber incident, one airline established secure web sites where information circulars can go out to air crews in a rapid fashion and secure fashion.
This FBI memo still hasn't been seen by the vast majority of airline pilots. They have to mandate these secure web sites to go out, by the airlines, to get this information out to the people who are going to be most affected by and that is the air crews.
Secondly, training; there's no mention of training in here. If a pilot sees a bright light, he says to his co-pilot, take a look at that. That's exactly the wrong thing to do. We need to develop simulator scenarios, where they put blindfolds on and say go ahead and land the airplane now, you have just been blinded by a laser. And let the pilots come up with their own procedures and techniques in how to get an airplane back on the ground safely should they be flash blinded by a laser.
HEMMER: Thank you, Robert.
Robert Sproc, down there in Miami, Florida. We'll continue to follow it. Appreciate your time today.
Also stay tuned to CNN, day and night, for the most reliable news about your security.
Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Well, a powerful retailer fights what it calls an urban legend. Andy has "Minding Your Business" just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Wal-Mart on the offensive against its critics. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning.
Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, COLUMNIST, "FORTUNE": Good morning, Soledad.
You know, for years, Wal-Mart has simply ignored its critics, those who cited and criticized its labor practices. Also, the impact on small towns and small retailers, criticized it for exporting jobs to China.
And now for the first time, Lee Scott, the CEO of the company, though, is fighting back. The world's biggest company and America's largest employer taking out ads in 100 newspapers across the country.
You can see one here in the "The Wall Street Journal" laying out its case and saying, hey, there are a lot of good things about this company. They have a website and Lee Scott is saying things like the public deserves to hear the truth. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions about our company, but they're not entitled to make up their own facts.
This company has $300 billion in sales; 1.2 million employees here in the United States. It's kind of interesting. One other note in a "USA Today" article, Soledad, Lee Scott says so many of the critics are people whose lifestyle doesn't change when the price of fuel changes, or they try to keep a Wal-Mart store out of their area. They don't need the competition; sort of a jab at maybe wealthy people or urbanites who are criticizing this company. Very interesting, they're going on the offensive for the first time.
O'BRIEN: Maybe an indication of how much some of those comments are hurting their business?
SERWER: I think that is true. That for the first time it's really a situation where it's become a sort of a nationwide situation where people are criticizing the company, not just an isolated one.
O'BRIEN: Andy, thank you.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Wow, $300 billion in sales.
SERWER: Getting close to it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
Question of the day?
CAFFERTY: Those are bigger than most countries' GDP. SERWER: It is. Many country's GDP.
CAFFERTY: No good deed, apparently, goes unpunished. Pardon me.
The Indonesian government announced yesterday that it wants U.S. troops helping tsunami victims out of the country March 1. Indonesia 's vice president said this "Three months are enough. In fact, the sooner they leave the better."
The Indonesians also refused to allow our Marines, coming ashore there, to rebuild roads, establish a base camp or carry their weapons. They've also ordered the Abraham Lincoln out of Indonesian waters. That's the carrier that has been used as the launching pad for a lot of relief missions being flown into the back country, delivering food to people hit by the tsunami.
While most Indonesians have expressed gratitude for U.S. aid, nationalist politicians in Indonesia have been grumbling about American interlopers.
Remember, Indonesia is the most populated Muslim country in the world. Here's the question -- how should the United States respond to Indonesia's demands? AM@cnn.com.
HEMMER: To date, we're still doing it, right? The aid is coming in, the Marines are still there, they are still working on the ground -- without their weapons?
CAFFERTY: You know, $6 million a day the Pentagon is spending to help these people. And this is the kind of gratitude.
O'BRIEN: You have to remember that the government and the people are like two different entities, right?
CAFFERTY: You know what? Then don't take the money. Real easy.
O'BRIEN: But the people need the money and they don't necessarily -- are concerned about the issues of the government, which didn't necessarily lose their homes or their families.
CAFFERTY: I wonder how well their government would have dealt with this crisis if it hadn't been for the United States?
SERWER: And the situation in Banda Aceh is so complicated. I mean, there has been a rebellion there for a couple decades now.
O'BRIEN: Tenuous situation there.
(CROSS TALK)
HEMMER: Good question, Jack. Thanks. We'll talk about it for the next 18 hours, right, because that how long the program is.
CAFFERTY: Yes, it goes on till Thursday of next week I think.
HEMMER: Thank you. Back to California, there, authorities now -- late breaking word -- say they have accounted for all the missing victims in the mudslide, but the search continues. We will explain why that is still going on in a moment here, after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 13, 2005 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: No mercy from the weather again today in the Midwest. Homes flooded to their attics. Another huge line of thunderstorms on the way now.
The hard rains causing havoc elsewhere out West. A train is knocked from its tracks. And on the interstates, whiteout fog causing a 200-car pile-up.
Also, cars tossed around like horseshoes after a huge explosion in one big city mall. And a royal scandal burning in England, after Prince Harry dresses up like a Nazi, all ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: Good morning, welcome everybody.
Lots happening this morning, including that rescue operation in La Conchita, California. We're going to talk to a member of the fire department out there find out what they have discovered about the folks who are missing in that mudslide.
HEMMER: Also, news of serious interest for anyone worried about your cholesterol. The FDA considering today whether to allow one of the statin drugs to be sold over the counter like aspirin or antacids.
We'll talk to a cardiologist about the likelihood of that happening; whether that's a good idea. So we'll have that for you this morning.
O'BRIEN: What's the question of the day, Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: No good deed going unpunished. The government of Indonesia has said they want America out of the country by March. The nation's vice president says the sooner Americans leave, the better. We'll take a look at how the United States ought to respond after spending $6 million a day trying to help the victims of the tsunami over there.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Let's get right to Carol Costello, she is in our New York bureau, with a look at the headlines this morning.
Hey, Carol. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN NEWS ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: Good morning, Soledad. Thank you.
"Now in the News": More violence in Iraq to tell you about. A group of gunmen in central Baghdad opened fire on a minibus today killing all six people onboard. Iraqi police say the insurgents also abducted a Turkish businessman, who was waiting for the bus outside of a hotel. The Turkish embassy in Baghdad now investigating.
East of Baghdad, Iraqi police say an aid to prominent Shiite Cleric Ali Ali Sistani was gunned down last night. The representative's son and four bodyguards also killed.
In Chicago, at least nine people injured by flying debris in a gas explosion at a shopping mall. Officials say last night's blast ripped a 150-foot long trench through the mall parking lot. One witness, who lives nearby, said the blast felt like a small earthquake. We'll hear from the city's fire commissioner, just ahead.
And Major League Baseball player who's test positive for steroids may soon face tougher guidelines. An announcement is expected today on a new testing program after an agreement was reached by players and owners yesterday. According to reports, first-time offenders could face suspension. More details expected later today.
Back to you.
O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, thanks very much.
Well, the rough weather that has been plaguing California is now making its way across the country, southern Nevada residents now dealing with the aftermath of heavy flooding there.
The heaviest deluge around Overton, near the Arizona boarder. That is where raging floodwaters knocked 21 Union Pacific freight cars off the tracks yesterday. No reports of any injury there's.
That is only one of numerous disruptions reported by the railroad all the way from the Pacific coast to Utah. There has been heavy damage in the area where Utah and Arizona and Nevada meet. Flooding in Utah so deep, officials say the only thing they can pair it to is a dam break. And flood warnings overnight for some of the areas around Flagstaff had folks there seeking higher ground.
In Indiana, it was dense fog that caused a 20-car pile-up. One person killed, 43 miles of the Indiana toll road were closed for six hours. Visibility was under a quarter of a mile.
Fog also causing serious problems in Michigan, I-96 just east of Lansing, is finally reopened this morning. The highway was closed after a massive pile-up yesterday involving about 200 cars and trucks. Two people died in the chain-reaction crash as dozens more were hurt. One person said it was like driving right into a white piece of paper.
More rain expected in Ohio today. Many rivers are still above flood stage, still rising, too. The Army Corps of Engineers releasing some water from major dams, trying to prevent a larger disaster if, in fact, they should spill over.
Parts of Ohio and West Virginia and Kentucky have all been underwater since last week. What's ahead for today? Chad Myers is at the CNN Center with the latest.
I don't know, Chad. Where do you want to begin this morning?
(WEATHER FORECAST)
HEMMER: Now to the latest in California, that mudslide killing at least 10 on Monday. Officials in La Conchita say all the missing accounted for, but rescue workers still continue searching through the day and night to find three victims still buried in the mud. It is unclear whether or not those people are still alive.
Jonathan Jesseman is an engineer with the Ventura County Fire Department; he is our guest now in California.
And I know it is early, again today. If you're still searching for three more victims, are you any closer to finding them?
JONATHAN JESSEMAN, ENGINEER, VENTURA CO. FIRE DEPT.: Bill, we're just doing the same thing we've been doing for the last two or three days now. We're still in a search mode. As far as we're concerned, there are still people in there and we're trying to find them.
HEMMER: Based on the reporting we have here, it's been since Tuesday early since any sign of life was detected there. What is the possibility that anyone can survive that now on this Thursday morning?
JESSEMAN: I'll give you that, Bill. It's slim. But nevertheless, we're going to continue our efforts.
HEMMER: Yesterday, you were with the father, Jimmy Wallits (ph), his name. He was there when they found his wife and three members of his family. How were you, as a rescuer, able to console him at such an incredible time of discovery for him?
JESSEMAN: Yeah, that was a tough time. We -- normally, we don't let the family members and the people in the area get too close to the rescue, but because of the environment at the time when this whole thing came down, the slide came down, the people were aggressively in there to help us.
Instead of fighting with them, we let them get involved and we basically put them to work. They really helped us out a lot. They worked their butts off. And they were a big help to us.
So -- but when it came time where we found his family, it was tough because he was pretty much looking over my shoulder as we were digging through the pile and debris and cutting and sawing and getting everything out of there.
And it was very difficult because we're trying to extricate his family, at the same time, we were trying not to expose them. And we wanted to do it in a very controlled environment. I mean, you just don't want to pop his family out in front of the father's eyes and for all to see. So it was tough.
Everybody in the neighborhood got together, and they helped carry the litter out of the wife and the three daughters. And I just hope this, you know, now he can have some closure that we found his family.
HEMMER: Yeah, indeed. Jonathan Jesseman, thank you for sharing this morning. Good luck today.
About 4:00 local time in California, as that search for three more victims continue there's. Thank you again and good luck.
JESSEMAN: Thank you.
HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A drug that helps prevent heart attacks could become a little bit easier to buy, but many doctors think it's not safe. The FDA is going to hear arguments today and tomorrow on whether Mevacor, a cholesterol lowering drug, should be sold without a prescription. Doctor Steven Nissen is a cardiologist with the Cleveland Clinic.
Nice to see you, Sir. Thanks for being with us.
There are some folks, as you well know, who say statins are so effective, that frankly, they should be put into the water almost like fluoride. Why do you think Mevacor, over the counter, is not a good idea?
I'm not sure you can hear me, Doctor Nissen. I'm going to check. Can you hear what I'm asking you? All right. Obviously you're having a little problem with our audio.
Dr. Nissan, we'll ask him to stand by while we fix the problem. Let's throw it back to Bill for just a moment.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
From London today, British tabloids in a flap this week over a serious wardrobe blunder by a young royal, leaving many wondering what was he thinking.
Prince Harry, in this photo, third in line for the throne, apologizing for donning a Nazi uniform for what Buckingham Palace now describes is a fancy dress party.
A photo, first published on the front-page of "The Sun" newspaper. You can see it there. Harry says in a statement "I'm very sorry if I caused any offense or embarrassment to anyone. It was a poor choice of costume and I apologize."
In our next hour, Sara Ferguson is here this morning, Prince Harry's former sister-in-law. We'll talk to her about the controversy from across the Atlantic. Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, a potential crisis for the Pentagon. The military faces a shortfall that it has not seen since 9/11. Is a drastic measure on the way?
Also, some graphic grand jury testimony apparently leaked in the Michael Jackson case. How damaging is that?
And Uncle Sam talks tough on lasers and airplanes, but is it going to keep us all safe? One pilot chimes in ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The FDA is going to hear arguments today and tomorrow on whether Mevacor, a cholesterol-lowering drug, should be sold without a prescription. Some doctors say it is not a good idea, it's not safe. Dr. Steven Nissen is a cardiologist with the Cleveland Clinic, joining us this morning.
Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.
DR. STEVEN NISSEN, CLEVELAND CLINIC: Nice to see you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Oh, look at that. I can hear you this time around. Fantastic.
Some people have said, as you know, that statins are so important and so effective, they almost should be put in the water like you put fluoride in the water. Why do you think that selling them over the counter is such a bad idea?
NISSEN: I have concerns both about the effectiveness of over- the-counter statins and also about their safety.
On the effectiveness side, there's the problem that people have to know they actually need the drug, and we're concerned that the people who actually take these drugs are what we call the worried well, individuals that think they're at risk for heart disease but aren't.
These are powerful drugs. If you don't need a drug, you shouldn't be taking a drug.
In addition, people at high risk for heart disease need larger doses of more powerful statins. This is a small dose of a relatively weak cholesterol-lowering drug. It may not be enough cholesterol lowering for some individuals.
O'BRIEN: What's the risk if someone says, boy, you know, heart disease runs in my family. I probably have high cholesterol. I've had a test, and it showed that I was in the 300 range. What would be the risk for someone like that to go and essentially grab something over the counter? What would be the big deal? NISSEN: All medications have risks. There are drug-drug interactions. If you take a common antibiotic, Erythromycin, with Mevacor, it raises blood levels and could induce toxicity which can be muscle breakdown or liver enzymes can go up.
You know, we need not take medications unless they're appropriate. Every medication has the potential for serious side effects, including the statin drugs. They are very, very safe. But you don't want to be taking a medication if you don't need it.
O'BRIEN: The FDA, in fact, turned down Merck's request to sell Mevacor over the counter four years ago. Has anything changed within the drug but also within the environment, let's say, that might make that something that would happen today?
NISSEN: Well, the company's done additional research. They're going to make the case before this FDA advisory panel, that they've really studied the problem. And that they've proven that there is both safety and effectiveness in administering them as over the counter drugs. This panel, which consists of physicians and even a consumer representative, will weigh the evidence and will take a vote.
The FDA frequently follows the advice of these panels, but doesn't have to, but usually does. And this is a very serious business. I think this panel will be very careful. The FDA will listen carefully. We're in a very tough environment right now regarding drug safety.
O'BRIEN: As far as the FDA goes, the environment's changed a lot, as you well know, in the wake of what happened with Vioxx. How do you think that will play a role potentially in approving Mevacor for an over the counter sale?
NISSEN: The Vioxx withdrawal does, in fact, undermine the probability this will be approved. There's a lot more scrutiny by physicians and the public and by the FDA itself regarding the safety of drugs. So I think we'll have to see, the evidence will be presented. I'm certain that the panel will consider it very carefully and we should get a good decision.
O'BRIEN: Two days of hearings ahead. Doctor Steven Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic.
Nice to see you sir, thank you very much.
NISSEN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, federal authorities now responding to a rash of incidents involving laser beams aimed at aircraft. In this morning's "Security Watch" new guidelines now require pilots to report laser sightings immediately to air traffic controllers, who will then advise law enforcement on the ground. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NORMAN MINETA, SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: We are treating lasers in the cockpit as a serious aviation safety matter. We will not allow careless people, making stupid choices, to put pilots and their passengers at risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Robert Sproc is a commercial pilot, also vice president of the Airline Pilot Security Alliance. He is my guest in Miami.
Good morning to you.
ROBERT SPROC, AIRLINE PILOT SECURITY ALLIANCE: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: This issue has been out there for two weeks. What do you make of Norm Mineta's announcement just yesterday?
SPROC: It's been out a lot longer than two weeks. We've learned about it since December 9th. It's very encouraging to hear the secretary address this publicly as a serious issue.
But at the Airline Pilots Security Alliance our experience has taught us with the arming pilots issue that the devil is in the details, into how the government actually implements what they talk about on camera. We've identified three major areas we think the Secretary Mineta should have gone to, which the advisory circular he was talking about yesterday falls dramatically short.
HEMMER: Let me stop you before you go to the three points. I want to hear them in a moment here. But this is what I'm trying to understand on the story.
Experts have told us the possibility of flash blinding both pilots at the same time is nearly impossible. If that's the case, why is this such a big issue at this point?
SPROC: Well, it may be nearly impossible and yet, we know pilots out there are being distracted by these lights. Years ago when casinos and hotels in Las Vegas were putting up lasers as an attraction to their facilities, they were getting into the cockpits of airplanes and distracting pilots from their primary duties of landing the airplane.
The FAA came along very quickly and said stop doing that. And they did, and there was no big problem. Now that we have this undercurrent of terrorism as being a possible threat, which the FBI identifies in their memo, which none of the pilots have seen yet, it seems to cloud the issue and people are saying this is an issue and it's not. Clearly several years ago when it was just a matter of distraction, it was serious enough to stop it then.
HEMMER: But then the FBI has also said it's not likely terrorism, most likely pranksters.
SPROC: They have also said, in their memo, right now the incidents are but they have identified that terrorists are interested in using this as a weapon. To pilots it doesn't matter if it's a terrorist or prankster. If you get blinded when you are trying to execute the aircraft in a critical phase of flight, that's going to be a problem.
HEMMER: You were going to, in your first answer, talk about some solutions you think may be offered for pilots for taking care of this issue. One of the things you propose is putting deflection equipment on airplanes. How likely is that? How would that work?
SPROC: Well, that's the third point that we'd like to get to. But, yes, there is detection equipment out there that can sense a laser beam being illuminated on an aircraft and perhaps give pilots an audible warning, so they don't have to have the laser energy into their eyes, to realize something is being directed at their aircraft. Much in the same way laser detectors are used by people who like to avoid speed traps today.
We know the military has developed this equipment. And we'd like to see that mandated by the FAA to be put on airplanes so the pilot doesn't have to lose his eyesight in order to realize there's a problem.
HEMMER: And quickly, the other two points you're pushing for are, what?
SPROC: The information flow here is, again, back to a September 10th mentality, where the government is wanting all the information to come in. We know following the shoe bomber incident, one airline established secure web sites where information circulars can go out to air crews in a rapid fashion and secure fashion.
This FBI memo still hasn't been seen by the vast majority of airline pilots. They have to mandate these secure web sites to go out, by the airlines, to get this information out to the people who are going to be most affected by and that is the air crews.
Secondly, training; there's no mention of training in here. If a pilot sees a bright light, he says to his co-pilot, take a look at that. That's exactly the wrong thing to do. We need to develop simulator scenarios, where they put blindfolds on and say go ahead and land the airplane now, you have just been blinded by a laser. And let the pilots come up with their own procedures and techniques in how to get an airplane back on the ground safely should they be flash blinded by a laser.
HEMMER: Thank you, Robert.
Robert Sproc, down there in Miami, Florida. We'll continue to follow it. Appreciate your time today.
Also stay tuned to CNN, day and night, for the most reliable news about your security.
Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Well, a powerful retailer fights what it calls an urban legend. Andy has "Minding Your Business" just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Wal-Mart on the offensive against its critics. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning.
Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, COLUMNIST, "FORTUNE": Good morning, Soledad.
You know, for years, Wal-Mart has simply ignored its critics, those who cited and criticized its labor practices. Also, the impact on small towns and small retailers, criticized it for exporting jobs to China.
And now for the first time, Lee Scott, the CEO of the company, though, is fighting back. The world's biggest company and America's largest employer taking out ads in 100 newspapers across the country.
You can see one here in the "The Wall Street Journal" laying out its case and saying, hey, there are a lot of good things about this company. They have a website and Lee Scott is saying things like the public deserves to hear the truth. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions about our company, but they're not entitled to make up their own facts.
This company has $300 billion in sales; 1.2 million employees here in the United States. It's kind of interesting. One other note in a "USA Today" article, Soledad, Lee Scott says so many of the critics are people whose lifestyle doesn't change when the price of fuel changes, or they try to keep a Wal-Mart store out of their area. They don't need the competition; sort of a jab at maybe wealthy people or urbanites who are criticizing this company. Very interesting, they're going on the offensive for the first time.
O'BRIEN: Maybe an indication of how much some of those comments are hurting their business?
SERWER: I think that is true. That for the first time it's really a situation where it's become a sort of a nationwide situation where people are criticizing the company, not just an isolated one.
O'BRIEN: Andy, thank you.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Wow, $300 billion in sales.
SERWER: Getting close to it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
Question of the day?
CAFFERTY: Those are bigger than most countries' GDP. SERWER: It is. Many country's GDP.
CAFFERTY: No good deed, apparently, goes unpunished. Pardon me.
The Indonesian government announced yesterday that it wants U.S. troops helping tsunami victims out of the country March 1. Indonesia 's vice president said this "Three months are enough. In fact, the sooner they leave the better."
The Indonesians also refused to allow our Marines, coming ashore there, to rebuild roads, establish a base camp or carry their weapons. They've also ordered the Abraham Lincoln out of Indonesian waters. That's the carrier that has been used as the launching pad for a lot of relief missions being flown into the back country, delivering food to people hit by the tsunami.
While most Indonesians have expressed gratitude for U.S. aid, nationalist politicians in Indonesia have been grumbling about American interlopers.
Remember, Indonesia is the most populated Muslim country in the world. Here's the question -- how should the United States respond to Indonesia's demands? AM@cnn.com.
HEMMER: To date, we're still doing it, right? The aid is coming in, the Marines are still there, they are still working on the ground -- without their weapons?
CAFFERTY: You know, $6 million a day the Pentagon is spending to help these people. And this is the kind of gratitude.
O'BRIEN: You have to remember that the government and the people are like two different entities, right?
CAFFERTY: You know what? Then don't take the money. Real easy.
O'BRIEN: But the people need the money and they don't necessarily -- are concerned about the issues of the government, which didn't necessarily lose their homes or their families.
CAFFERTY: I wonder how well their government would have dealt with this crisis if it hadn't been for the United States?
SERWER: And the situation in Banda Aceh is so complicated. I mean, there has been a rebellion there for a couple decades now.
O'BRIEN: Tenuous situation there.
(CROSS TALK)
HEMMER: Good question, Jack. Thanks. We'll talk about it for the next 18 hours, right, because that how long the program is.
CAFFERTY: Yes, it goes on till Thursday of next week I think.
HEMMER: Thank you. Back to California, there, authorities now -- late breaking word -- say they have accounted for all the missing victims in the mudslide, but the search continues. We will explain why that is still going on in a moment here, after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
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