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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

California Dam Leakage Causes 800 Evacuations From Corona Neighborhoods; Avalanche Rips Through Mountain Near Park City, Utah; Insurgents Kidnapped 15 Iraqi Guardsman

Aired January 14, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now with development story we're watching. We're standing by for brand new images from the Saturn moon Titan. Will the detailed pictures give us a better clue about what looks like some riverbeds on the ringed planet's moon? Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Evacuation, a crack in the dam in California, hundreds forced to flee.

And in Ohio, thousands leave as the rivers keep rising.

Would a warning help? Shocking new video captures the force and fury of a tsunami in Thailand as officials plan a new alert system for this country.

Cutting contacts, after a bloody terror attack, Israel's prime minister severs all ties with the Palestinians until their new leader cracks down on militant groups.

Was Abraham Lincoln gay? The battlelines are drawn as a new book draws controversial conclusions about the president's private life.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, January 14, 2005.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Welcome to our viewers. We begin with a sudden breakdown in the Middle East after so much hope following the Palestinian elections of only last Sunday. A day after a bloody terror attack in Gaza left six Israeli civilians and three Palestinian gunmen dead, Israel has now sealed off Gaza and cut off all contact with the Palestinian Authority until newly elected leader Mahmoud Abbas cracks down on militant groups. Let's go live to Jerusalem, with John Vause who's standing by.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is a big is setback for the president-elect of the Palestinian Authority. It comes a day before he's set to take the oath of office after winning those weekend Palestinian elections. The decision by Ariel Sharon to suspend all contact is a clear indication that he holds Mahmoud Abbas directly responsible for an attack at a Gaza border crossing last night which left six Israeli civilian workers dead. There will be no contacts, according to an adviser to the prime minister, until Palestinian security services begin to take steps against the militant groups and in particular find and arrest those responsible or who were behind the attack last night. After last weekend's elections that Mr. Abbas won convincingly, hopes had been higher that the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks would resume. In the days after that election, Mr. Sharon telephoned Mr. Abbas offering his congratulations. During that conversation, Mr. Sharon said he hoped these two men would be able to meet soon, but now it appears that won't be happening either. Wolf.

BLITZER: The suspension or cancellation of all of these contacts, does that seem like it will be permanent or just until Mahmoud Abbas can get a grip on what's going on?

VAUSE: Well, there's a couple things happening here. The Israelis have said no talks until an end to the attacks, but Abbas is trying for a cease-fire. He worked for a number of weeks to try to get the militants to stop their attacks. Next month it appears there will still be Egyptian-brokered ceasefire talks between the Palestinian Authority and the militant groups. At this stage that appears as if it will still go ahead. If Abbas is successful there and the attacks stop, the there's every indication that the talks will resume -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John Vause, thanks very much.

Elsewhere in the Middle East, in Iraq the U.S. military announced the deaths of three more American troops. Two U.S. marines were killed in action yesterday while conducting security operations in the Al Anbar province. A 1st infantry soldier died near Mosul. A military spokesman said that death was not related to combat.

An Iraqi national guard official says attackers ambushed a bus carrying guard members about 90 miles west of Baghdad, some 15 Iraqi guardsmen were reported kidnapped. President Bush is sticking by his decision to go to war in Iraq, but now for the first time he's expressing some misgivings about some of his past statements about the war and other issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): This was then.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have. You just put me on the spot here and maybe I'm not as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one.

BLITZER: This is now.

BUSH: Watch what I say. Seriously. I do think I said some things in the first term that probably were a little blunt.

BLITZER: In an interview with Barbara Walters, President Bush suggested he does have some regrets about some of the things he said including this remark in July 2003 in response to insurgent attacks on U.S. troops in answer. BUSH: My answer is bring them on.

BLITZER: Here is what Mr. Bush has to say now.

BUSH: Bring it on was a little blunt. I was really speaking to our troops, but it came out and it had a different connotation, different meanings for others.

BLITZER: Iraqi insurgents have since used his statement on propaganda video. Then there was a statement the president made about Osama bin Laden in the week after the September 11 attacks.

BUSH: I want justice, and there's an old poster out west as I recall, that said, "wanted, dead or alive."

BLITZER: This is now.

BUSH: I remember when I talked about Osama bin Laden, we're going to get him dead or alive. I guess that's not the most diplomatic of language. Laura, as a matter of fact, chewed me out right after that. I do have to be cautious about, you know, conveying thoughts in a way maybe that doesn't send wrong impressions about our country.

BLITZER: Then there's the matter of Iraq. Arguing the case for the war, the president said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

BUSH: The Iraqi regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons every devised.

BLITZER: In the end, the hunt for weapons of mass destruction turned up empty. A CIA report this week suggested the war in Iraq has a benefit to Islamic terrorists providing training and recruits, but speaking about his decision to go to war, President Bush said that's one area where he has no regrets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): The full interview with President Bush will be seen tonight on ABC's "20/20." That airs 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this, do you think some of President Bush's comments have had unintended consequences? We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

It's the little probe that could and did. Spun off from its mother ship on Christmas Eve, the European Space Agency Huygens probe today landed on Saturn's largest moon called Titan, capping a multinational mission that was launched in 1997. Now the payoff. Pictures from that icy moon which have left some scientists overcome with emotion. For all these new developments let's go live to our space correspondence Miles O'Brien at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Pretty dramatic stuff? MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Incredible stuff. You'll see some pictures right now you'll only see on CNN. The European Space Agency hasn't officially released but one picture, but we had our sources send us what you're about to see and truly scientists are flabbergasted by what they are seeing on the surface of Titan. Take a look at the left. This is looking straight down. They're very interested in these white and dark features, wondering if some of this might be liquid methane seas. That's actually the horizon off there, and you're look down as if you're coming down say 30,000 feet or airline or altitudes.

Once again pictures that no one else has right now. No one has released. The European Space Agency very slow to release these things. This has got people flabbergasted, too. Looks like essentially river gullies. Methane river gullies. Who know? This could be a big body of essentially paint thinner or turpentine.

Finally take a look at these images. This is where I want to bring in our guest, Carolyn Porco. Carolyn is on the Cassini imaging team, and what we're seeing there, they look like rocks to me. It looks like some of the images we've seen from Mars. Carolyn, would you have ever predicted seeing rocks on the surface of Titan?

CAROLYN PORCO, CASSINI-HUYGENS PROJECT: I thought I was really flabbergasted by the first image which was drainage patterns, then came this image that looked for all the world like Mars. I have to say there were several of us who asked members of the team, come on, you're kidding, you slipped this in as a joke, because it looked so much like Mars. I have to say my impression was, rocks? Whoever thought of rocks? Of course it's not silicone rocks. If anything it's probably ice boulders, but they have different shapes, some are flattened. It looks for all the world like the plains we have seen in Mars. You know that which you covered last year around this time. So it's just remarkable. We're all -- all of us are flabbergasted, actually.

O'BRIEN: I never heard anybody talk about river gullies or rocks. It just shows what a mystery Titan was. Are you going to be changing everything that you've been thinking about Titan? Would you predict a complete 180-degree turn about what this planet or this moon is all about?

CAROLYN PORCO, CASSINI SCIENTIST: Well, let me correct you. There was a lot of talk about possibly carved gullies and riverbeds, so on, because the theories that we brought to Titan with us claimed that the processes in the atmosphere in fact would give rise to slow- moving droplets of light hydrocarbons that would end up on the surface possibly filling in depressions, filling in craters, making seas and puddles, and what have you. And people thought, yes, we might see geological structures that look very much like the Earth, familiar geological terrain carved by very unfamiliar materials. And in that sense, what we're seeing is perhaps closer to what we thought we would see than not.

We're not quite sure, except for this association with the gullies, we're not quite sure the black areas we're seeing are liquid, but there will be other information other information that we'll gather over time that will help us figure that out.

There is going to be, apparently will be a press briefing at 11:00 tomorrow morning and here at Darmstadt we hope to learn more. There may even be movies of the descent, so that should be really exciting.

O'BRIEN: That will be a movie worth watching.

Carolyn Porco, thank you for your time. And thank you for sharing the wonderment of this world that has defied a lot of the predictions.

Wolf, Titan has a mystery, but the haze has been pierced. And the question now is we might be looking at essentially a time capsule of what Earth looked like, say, 4 billion years ago.

BLITZER: Well, I was just going to ask, Miles, the fact there may be rocks on Titan, river gullies or riverbeds, what does that mean scientifically, what does that mean to the average viewer right now that says, you know what there are rocks on Titan, what's the big deal?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, what's the big deal? Well, there is just the holy cow factor of it. But you know, when you start looking at things and they look more and more familiar than you might expect, and you see things that you don't expect necessarily, you have to ask questions about how common life and how common life is all throughout our universe? And could it have been possible that at one time or another life might have taken hold here on this place? Maybe there is such a thing as a methane based life.

And so, to me, these are very profound questions. These aren't questions going to put a roof over your head or food in your stomach or take care of your kids' education, but I think they're questions that really resonate deep within side all of us, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, Miles O'Brien, right on top of this story like no other journalist out there. Thanks, Miles, very much.

An avalanche at popular Utah ski resort just occurred. We're going to get a live report.

And hundreds of homes evacuated as a California dam springs a leak. Engineers are trying to ease the pressure. How great is the danger?

The rivers are rising in Ohio. And residents there are taking absolutely no chances.

And look at this, an amazing new amateur video shows just how quickly a killer wave struck the coast of Thailand.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This is a developing story just coming in to CNN. There's been an avalanche this after noon near Park City, Utah. That's a popular spot for skiers. Search and rescue operations are now under way. Jill Atwood is a local radio personality, a former reporter for KSLTV in Salt Lake City. She's joining us on the phone. You saw what happened, Jill. Tell our viewers what you saw.

JILL ATWOOD, RADIO PERSONALITY: Well at this point, Wolf, there's unconfirmed reports as to how many people may have been trapped at this time. We initially heard 15. I've heard 10. I've heard 5.

What I can tell you what I saw was basically it looked like someone took a knife and sliced into the side of a mountain. This was a massive slide, probably 300 to 500 yards wide. And at this point I can tell you that search and rescue crews are finally at the scene. It took them a while to get there. There are search dogs there with beacons trying to locate anyone if they can. We have got explosives going off. And the explosives are just blow away some of the loose snow that could threaten search and rescue. More snow could come down.

But this is an area -- one of the highest points here at the Canyons Resort. You access it from the 9990 lift. And this is an area that was out of bounds, these folks did have to walk quite a bit, they had to hike to get to the point where they were. So this was not an avalanche-controlled area, although there were signs warning folks of the avalanche danger. But this is not an area that is controlled by the resort.

But I can tell you, Wolf, I was with the ski patrol supervisor right after it happened, and he said this is the one that we've been worried about. This is a popular out-of-bounds area, we've just gotten a ton of snow and, you know, the weather started to warm up, and just a huge slab has come off the side of this mountain.

BLITZER: Jill Atwood, thanks very much for updating us. And we'll continue to watch this story. We don't know yet how many people may have been trapped in that avalanche. But we'll watch it for our viewers.

There was a collective sigh of relief late today near Corona, California. Hundreds of residents there have been evacuated after water started seeping through a crack in a dam. CNN's Eric Philips is joining us live the scene in Corona with more. Eric, what's the latest?

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, the good news is that according to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the seepage at that dam, at the Prado Dam is now until control and is posing no threat. And that means residents could be allowed back into their homes, those who were evacuated could be allowed back into their homes this evening.

The seepage that was causing the problem came from a temporary barrier that was surrounding construction at the dam. The leak was first discovered early yesterday morning. And workers with the Army Corps of Engineers kept an eye on it all day long. When they realized the amount of water escaping was increasing exponentially, they notified local authorities who made the call to evacuate more than 800 homes that could have been in danger. A police spokesperson tells me officers went door to door making sure everyone got the word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JERRY RODRIGUEZ, CORONA POLICE: If we don't do anything and, you know, worst-case scenario the dam, you know, breaks or the water flows through where it floods the basin and people get hurt, then I think we get ourselves in trouble. So yes, it's a minor inconvenience, but I think in the long run, it's the safe thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIPS: Water levels at the dam were at an all-time high or near-record level, I should say, because of the ongoing rainfall they've had in this area. But officials are telling us that because they've released millions of gallons of water now, they're expecting by noon Monday the seepage will start altogether. We're waiting for a press conference to begin at this hour to find out whether or not residents will be allowed back in their homes this evening -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Eric Philips reporting. Thanks, Eric, very much.

In Ohio, the rivers are rising and residents have been moving to higher ground. Let's go live to CNN's Chris Huntington, he's in Marietta.

Chris, what's the latest there?

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, the clear and cool weather across much of the state of Ohio a welcomed respite from the torrential downpours that have soaked the state. And of course, the rivers up to flood levels in many, many areas. It's stable and it is predicted to get better, but for many people that simply means stable and getting better from a situation that is underwater.

The most acute situation in the state right now, 3,200 people isolated, that's according to the state's Office of Emergency Control, near Canton, Ohio. The Army Corps of Engineers estimates that the road should be passable there by midweek. So those folks, for the time being, are accessible only by boat.

In Cincinnati, which of course is in the southwestern corner of the state, the Ohio River there is said to continue rising and should crest on Sunday, but then recede.

In Columbus, Ohio, there's still flooding in many neighborhoods there and some of the highways going through that Central Ohio City are shut down.

In Delaware County near there, dams and flood control reservoirs are spilling over.

In Dayton, in the western part of the state, there's still moderate flooding in many of the neighborhoods there along the Great Miami River. Spillways there, also, are pretty much at capacity. And that is the story, really.

That brings us back here to Marietta, where the situation is relatively benign. The army corps said the river has crested today, about 20 feet above normal level, but still about 4 feet below a level that would threaten the main historic district here. And that's almost due entirely, Wolf, to the elaborate flood control system that operates upriver from here in Marietta -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Chris Huntington.

Severe weather is also causing problem in Virginia. this morning, heavy rains caused street flooding in the Charlottesville area. Power lines, trees and wires were reported down.

Arkansas's governor toured tornado-damaged areas of that state today. A twister killed 2 people late Wednesday night. And it's also blamed for a small plane crash that killed the pilot. It cut a path of destruction some 20 miles long. As many as 30 homes were badly damaged or destroyed.

Following last month's disaster in the Indian Ocean, the United States plans a major expansion of its tsunami warning system. The White House said today the warning system in the Pacific will be enhanced, and monitoring will be added for the Atlanta, the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. Some scientists fear the U.S. East Coast is vulnerable to a tsunami spawned by a volcano or an earthquake. The goal of the enhanced system is to detect and respond to a U.S. coastal tsunami within minutes.

You're looking now at some new amateur video which shows the terrifying speed and fury of the tsunami as it hit the beach in Phuket, Thailand. Standing in the water atop debris left by an earlier wave, people looked on as a larger, killer wave swept towards them unaware of how powerful it was. Then a desperate effort to flee.

Reuters says it received a video from a local man who got it from a tourist who has since left Thailand.

We'll have more on the developing story from Utah, that avalanche at the resort near Park City. We're watching that story for you.

Plus, a set of significant opportunities on the horizon for President Bush. Our Carlos Watson is standing by with the inside edge. He'll join us live.

Was President Abraham Lincoln gay? A new book by a scholar is raising that question, and causing quite a huge debate among historians.

And remembering Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The actor Martin Sheen is involved in a special performance to honor the civil rights leader. I'll speak with Martin Sheen. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Next week, President Bush kicks off his second term. He says he plans to spend the political capital he earned in the reelection. Following all this, our CNN political analyst Carlos Watson. He joins us every Friday with "The Inside Edge."

Carlos, the inauguration represents an opportunity for the president. What do you see?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Significantly, Wolf, the president really has at least three key audiences that he has to win over. One, he certainly has got to impress foreign leaders abroad, knowing that a lot of his agenda going forward has to do with Iraq, North Korea and other places.

Two, you're going to hear in the inauguration things that really appeal, not to Congress in general, but particularly to members of the Republican party, those who may be a little bit hesitant, frankly, on questions like Social Security or major changes with regard to immigration reform.

And last but not least, you'll see him do a lot of work in terms of rallies the public generally, especially convincing them that there's enough of a need to make big changes on some of these issues, around say, tort reform or again around Social Security.

The other thing to note, Wolf, which is very interesting, is that the White House has been much more strategic in seeing that this inauguration is one of really only three major events that the president has an opportunity to shape the discussion going forward.

There's the inauguration next Thursday. Then we have the elections in Iraq at the end of the month and then -- the State of the Union Speech. So 3 significant opportunities for the president to make his case to these different audiences.

BLITZER: Switching gears now, there's also a moment that looks like a bit of progress with North Korea. This is a huge issue, given the nuclear capability of that Communist regime.

WATSON: It is. And you know, there's been some concern that over the last several years North Korea has expanded its nuclear capability, maybe having potentially enough materials for as many as 8 nuclear weapons. So there's been a lot of concern. A group of members of Congress, actually 2 different delegations. One, the most recent included Representative Kurt Weldon of Pennsylvania, just made an announcement that it seems the North Koreans are willing to return to multiparty talks.

If indeed that's true, and frankly, that has to be verified, I think it would be a fairly significant move for the president in the progress there, and in the progress that he recently was able to announce, at least the Europeans were, on Iran. You may be able to see a new framework going forward at how the president deals with some of these sticky international issues, namely multiparty talks, not just bilateral talks.

BLITZER: What do you see unfolding in this race for a new chairman of the Democratic Party?

WATSON: Well, it seems that, once again, Howard Dean is becoming the defining element in the Democratic Party.

Remember, the 2003/2004 Democratic primary was defined by Howard Dean. He set the tone, the strong anti-war tone. And, ultimately, the conversation became Dean or anti-Dean. And you remember that John Kerry emerged as the anti-Dean and ultimately won the nomination. Once again, in the race for the DNC chair, in effect the opening salvo in the 2008 presidential election on the Democratic side, Howard Dean is once again that catalytic figure.

There's Dean's candidacy, which in a recent unscientific poll of about half of the members of the Democratic National Committee, he seemed to be the front-runner. But, again, people are galvanizing around Martin Frost, the former congressman from Texas, who right now is the leading anti-Dean candidate. So it's interesting to see Howard Dean remain the driving force for the Democrats in 2005.

BLITZER: Carlos Watson always has "The Inside Edge," especially on this program every Friday.

Carlos, thanks very much. Have a great weekend.

WATSON: Good to see you. You have a good weekend, too.

BLITZER: Thank you, Carlos.

Controversy surrounding a former president's private life and personal relations. There are now at least some historians who suggest President Abraham Lincoln was gay. We'll assess that assessment.

And fallout to Prince Harry's costume debacle. Will he visit a concentration camp as part of his apology?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Questioning President Lincoln's sexual preference, why at least some serious scholars are now suggesting he was gay. We'll get to that.

First, though, a quick check of some other stories now in the news.

Search-and-rescue operations under way right now near Park City, Utah, where an avalanche struck just outside a ski area. Authorities say at least one backcountry skier was trapped. A series of storms has dumped as much as 9 feet of snow in the area since late last month.

A jury in Texas is deliberating the court-martial case of Army Specialist Charles Graner, the alleged ringleader of the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Both the defense and prosecution completed closing arguments earlier today. Graner could face up to 17 1/2 years in a U.S. military prison.

A royal spokeswoman says there are no plans for Britain's Prince Harry to visit the site of a Nazi death camp, but he may become involved with some Jewish charities. The prince has apologized for wearing a Nazi uniform to a costume party, but critics insist that's not long enough.

Historians have long argued over aspects of Abraham Lincoln's private life, including whether he had gay relationships. Now a new book aims to resolve that issue once and for all. Instead, it's only spurring more serious scholarly debate.

Our Brian Todd has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The great emancipator, the indispensable president whose power endures is the indisputable part of Abraham Lincoln's legacy. Exploring his private side is a more delicate business, historians often in disagreement about his marriage and personal relationships.

A newly published book on the sexuality of the 16th American president opens a bitter divide.

JEAN BAKER, GOUCHER COLLEGE: We need to have these kinds of perhaps unpopular views of a major American icon presented to the public.

TODD: In "The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln," author and sex researcher C.A. Tripp takes hold of a theory that Lincoln had homosexual attachments, emotional and physical, throughout his life. Tripp takes hold and doesn't let go.

PHILIP NOBILE, HISTORIAN: He assumed going into his history that Lincoln was gay.

TODD: Philip Nobile once worked on the book with Tripp. He believes Lincoln had homosexual leanings, but quit the projects and now joins a host of writers who slams Tripp's work in news articles.

NOBILE: He was cooking evidence. He was fabricating material. He was also suppressing important information about Lincoln heterosexuality.

TODD: An open heterosexual history that included a long marriage to Mary Todd and four children.

Contacted by CNN, a spokesman for Tripp's publisher, Free Press, said the firm is -- quote -- "confident that the finished book reflects Tripp's ideas, as supported by his extensive research."

To bolster his argument, Tripp focuses on close friendships Lincoln had with four men, including young store owner Joshua Speed, who Lincoln shared a bed with for four years beginning in his late 20s, who later received letters from Lincoln signed, "Yours forever," and Army Captain and presidential bodyguard David Derickson. During the Civil War, historians agree the president slept in the same bed with Derickson at his summer retreat.

But prominent historians and Lincoln scholars say it was very common for heterosexual men to share beds in the 1800s. Mattresses were expensive. Private quarters were scarce and it simply was accepted practice. Flowery prose was also commonly written by heterosexual men to other men. They say it's pure bunk to make the leap to a homosexual Lincoln and there's no solid historical evidence to back it up.

Others, including a historian who wrote the introduction to Tripp's book, believe the complexity of this man's life leaves opens at least a possibility.

As for evidence:

BAKER: And unless you have a blue dress from the Gap with stains on it, how are you going to be able to argue any point about sexuality, that I would perhaps say, in the language of today, that he was bisexual and that he was incidentally homosexual?

TODD: But finality on this issue is perhaps impossible. What we end with is what we seem to already know. This was a painfully shy man, prone to dark moods, emotionally elusive.

(on camera): And the central problem remains. Our protagonist and the author to have claimed part of his psyche are not here to clarify the record. C.A. Tripp died in 2003, two weeks after finishing the manuscript.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And we'll have more on the controversial subject. That's coming up ahead. I'll speak with two historians who have researched Abraham Lincoln extensively.

Plus, delivering the promises of Martin Luther King, how America will commemorate the civil rights leader this weekend. The actor Martin Sheen is involved. My interview with him, that is coming up as well.

And, later, more extreme weather, a snowy scene today in a place unusually -- usually known, that is, for its beaches.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Returning now to the subject of a new and controversial book on Abraham Lincoln, questions about his sexual preference.

I'm joined by a pair of historians well versed on the subject. Michael Chesson of the University of Massachusetts is joining us from Boston. And Michael Burlingame of Connecticut College joins us from Hartford.

Professors, thanks very much for joining us.

Professor Chesson, do you suspect -- you believe that Abraham Lincoln was gay. Why?

PROF. MICHAEL CHESSON, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS: I believe he was gay because, as Michael Burlingame so persuasively argued in his 1994 book, "The Inner World of Abraham Lincoln," quoting the first sentence in chapter six, Abraham Lincoln did not like women.

And we could go on from there. He was clearly attracted to men. They were attracted to him. He felt most comfortable in their company. He did not seek out other women. His courtship of Mary Todd and perhaps other women was notably awkward and troubled, as was his subsequent marriage to her. And I certainly agree with Professor Burlingame that the Lincoln marriage was the union from hell.

BLITZER: Well, is that true, Professor Burlingame? You don't believe Abraham Lincoln was gay, though, do you?

PROF. MICHAEL BURLINGAME, CONNECTICUT COLLEGE: I think it's highly unlikely. It's possibly, but highly unlikely.

BLITZER: Because?

BURLINGAME: Because the evidence of his romantic and sexual interests in women is strong. And the evidence for his romantic and sexual interest in men is very meager and dubious.

BLITZER: Well, did you write in your book what Professor Chesson says you wrote?

BURLINGAME: I did. I said that Abraham Lincoln did not like women, but I did not mean to imply in that statement that he was not sexually and romantically interested in some women. He just felt uncomfortable in the presence of women in general.

BLITZER: Professor Chesson, there's a history of Lincoln's relationships with at least four women, one of them, of course, being his wife, Mary. You know, obviously, about that history.

CHESSON: I do.

And I think the explanation for that troubled marriage may have been his same-sex orientation. Tripp has criticized by Jean Baker, among others, in the preface for being too harsh on Mary Todd. Reading Tripp's manuscript made me much more sympathetic to her. He wasn't giving her what she wanted and needed. And he apparently wasn't attracted to her sexually. BLITZER: Well, give us some evidence that you have, beyond the fact that he shared a bed, which apparently was relatively common in those another -- with a friend of his who happened to be a man.

CHESSON: Bed-sharing was common in the 19th century, but sleeping with the same partner for four years, as he did with Joshua Speed, I suspect, was relatively uncommon.

The argument is made that, on the frontier, that in small towns, in a pioneer environment, beds were few and far between and bed- sharing was common. How many bedrooms are there in the White House, besides the Lincoln Bedroom? I would put your White House correspondence on that, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Professor Burlingame, what do you say about that?

BURLINGAME: Well, the relationship that Lincoln had with Joshua Speed was certainly close.

But we have evidence that Speed total Lincoln's law partner, William Herndon, that one day Lincoln came to him and said, Speed, do you know where I can get some? And Speed said to Lincoln, well, yes, I do, but you're going to need a note from me. It's my fancy women. So Lincoln then went with the note and visited Speed's fancy woman. Now, why, if Lincoln was having a sexual relationship with Speed and Speed was having a sexual relationship with Lincoln, why would they go to a fancy woman?

BLITZER: What about that, Professor Chesson?

CHESSON: I'm not arguing and I don't believe Tripp argued that Lincoln was exclusively homosexual. Nobody is denying that he eventually had a marriage with Mary Todd and that they had four sons. I think, definitionally, according to one of the afterwards by a psychologist, Lincoln was a bisexual.

I believe that he had sexual relations with men and with Mary Todd.

BLITZER: In the mid 1800s, Professor Burlingame, what was the general concept of homosexuality here in the United States?

BURLINGAME: Well, the term homosexuality had not been devised, of course, by that time. And the prohibition or the moral taboo on homosexuality was pretty strong.

BLITZER: So it was a well known taboo, obviously.

Professor Chesson, if in fact Abraham Lincoln was gay, historically speaking, what would that mean to you?

CHESSON: Well, what it would mean to me is that I might have a possible explanation for his secretive nature. He was reclusive. He played his cards close to the vest. He was a quiet, private man, except when he was telling his smutty jokes that had a strong anal fixation.

BLITZER: And what about you, Professor Burlingame?

BURLINGAME: Well, if Lincoln were to be proven gay, it might help explain the relationship with David Derickson, which to my mind is the most telling piece of evidence that Dr. Tripp introduces in his book.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Tell our viewers who that is.

BURLINGAME: David Derickson was a captain who was the head of the -- was with the guard that protected President Lincoln when he stayed at the summer home during his presidency.

BLITZER: All right.

Professor Burlingame and Professor Chesson, we're going to have to cut this a little short, because we're getting some breaking news from Fort Hood, Texas, right now. I want to thank both of you for joining us. We'll probably continue this conversation down the road.

Susan Candiotti, our reporter covering the court-martial of U.S. Army Specialist Charles Graner.

Susan, a verdict has come in.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

And he's been found guilty of all but one count of the five charges. Let's go over them, Wolf. This came after five hours of deliberation by this jury made of 10 people. And let's go over them one by one.

First of all, the first charge is conspiracy. He was found guilty. That included a specification account of a leash being wrapped around the neck of a detainee. We're all very familiar with this photo, the leash being held by Graner's girlfriend, Lynndie England.

Now, conspiracy, the specification two, or the second count, that included the conspiracy count of the photograph that we've all seen before of the stacked pile of detainees that were naked. Going on to the next charge, he was found guilty of dereliction of duty, with one exception on the first count. And going to charge three, also found guilty of specification one. That also involved the naked pyramid.

Specification two, he was also found guilty. That also included a photograph that has been seen before and was played in court of detainees who were made to simulate a sex act. Specification three, that's count three of charge three, found guilty as well. This involved a photograph that we have seen before with Specialist Graner with his arm cocked back, as though he was about to hit a detainee in the neck or back. Also, count four of that same charge, maltreatment of subordinates or detainees, that is the charge we're talking about, again count four, he was found guilty of that charge as well. Moving on to the fourth charge, aggravated assault, he was found guilty of count one or also know as specification one, causing bodily harm. He was also -- he was found not guilty with a lesser degree of that second count that involves again aggravated assault.

And going now to charge five, he was also found guilty of indecent acts. Now, as we understand it from the judge, this jury will be coming back in about 45 minutes or so to continue the sentencing phase. There is no hearing in between, no stop in between. And they will be coming back to deal with that immediately.

You will remember that, if he had been found guilty on all of these counts, he could be spending more than 17 years in a military prison -- Wolf.

BLITZER: How much leeway does the judge have, Susan, on how many years this U.S. Army Specialist Charles Graner, convicted, found guilty of nine out of these 10 of specific charges, how many years -- how much leeway does the judge have?

CANDIOTTI: Of course, it differs according to the count, but it is the jury that will be sentencing him, actually, not the judge. The jury will decide in this case.

And some of the counts differ. Some of them only carry one year. Some of them carry up to three years -- I should say, up to one year, up to three years, and up to five years. That would be the most amount of time that he could receive on any one particular count -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's get some analysis.

Professor Scott Silliman of Duke University Law School is joining us, formerly served in the U.S. military as a lawyer.

What's your analysis of this conviction, Professor?

SCOTT SILLIMAN, DUKE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Wolf, it's not a surprise.

Graner tried to mount what's called the obedience to orders defense. It was an exceedingly difficult defense for him to be successful in, because he had to show that he either did not know that the order was illegal or had no reason to believe it was illegal. I think the jury obviously did not believe that. They had solid evidence against him, so being convicted of most of the charges does not come as a surprise.

BLITZER: But the argument that he was simply obeying orders, that he thought they had told him to soften up these Iraqi detainees for interrogation purposes, what about that argument?

SILLIMAN: Wolf, there's a difference between a suggestion or even an urging being given to Graner and an official order that he would be required to comply with.

If in fact the jury believes that the CIA or anyone else that was there with Graner perhaps persuaded him to use these tactics, then that would be a matter for the jury to consider in mitigation of punishment, but it's not a defense to the charge.

BLITZER: What does conviction mean, would you suspect, for the others who face similar accusations?

SILLIMAN: Well, because Graner was considered to be the ringleader in this, Wolf, I suspect that this would not bode well for the others facing similar charges. And my guess is that many of them will be looking to somehow work a plea agreement with the commanders to see if they can mitigate the punishment on a plea of guilty.

BLITZER: So, if they avoid a trial, if you will, if they just plead guilty, they might get some sort of reduced sentence. That would be the kind of plea agreement in a civilian criminal proceeding that would go forward. Is it the same thing in military justice?

SILLIMAN: It's similar, Wolf.

A military accused can make an agreement with the senior commander who convened the court. And it would he or she would be guilty in exchange for cap on the sentence that would be administered after the jury awarded punishment and when the case was under review. It would be reduced down to that agreed-to amount.

So, that is in all probability what we will be seeing in these other cases.

BLITZER: What do they expect of U.S. military personnel? And remember, these were largely reservists, those U.S. soldiers who were dealing with the situation at the Abu Ghraib prison. And many of them certainly were not prepared for what they eventually found themselves in.

The U.S. military, if they get an order, a soldier or an airman, sailor, Marine, and they believe the order to be unlawful, what are they supposed to do at that point?

SILLIMAN: Well, they are to refuse the order, Wolf. If they are given an order which they either know to be illegal or have reason to believe would be illegal, they must refuse it.

And if they do not refuse it, then they are culpable, as we're finding in these cases.

BLITZER: So, in other words, if Specialist Graner did receive some sort of order from his commanders at the Abu Ghraib prison, go ahead, humiliate these prisoners, make them feel like dirt, abuse them, don't kill them, but just make them feel awful, because then they'll be easier for us to question, what should he have said then to his commanders?

SILLIMAN: He should have had, sir, that's an illegal order. That's against the law. I cannot and will not do that.

BLITZER: In the real world of U.S. military, though, Professor, and under combat circumstances, how realistic is it that a low-level U.S. soldier would do that to a commander, would tell a commander, that is unlawful, sir, and I won't do it?

SILLIMAN: Wolf, what we've got to understand is that every member of the military, including reservists and Guardsmen, are in fact given training in international humanitarian law at least once a year, in Geneva Convention law.

So, to believe that a member of the service, no matter what their grade, would agree to this type of conduct, assuming that it was lawful, to me just does not make sense. So, I think, although the relationship of superior to subordinate may make it difficult, nonetheless, we expect not only the young man or woman to refuse that order, but also to report that the order was given.

BLITZER: And based on your experience, do reservists and National Guard personnel who are activated get the same kind of education as far as the law is concerned?

SILLIMAN: They're supposed to, Wolf, because we expect the Reserve and Guard folks to train to the active-duty mission. And when you talk to most of them, they are very proud of the fact that they do that.

BLITZER: What will this conviction -- what will be the resounding sound, the impact of this conviction on the fighting men and women in Iraq?

SILLIMAN: I think the vast majority of them, Wolf, will welcome it, because they would agree that the type of behavior that was depicted in the pictures coming out of Abu Ghraib was abhorrent and something that they believe constituted a blot upon their good record.

So I think we'll find that this verdict in this case will be welcomed by the vast majority of the armed forces personnel.

BLITZER: One final question, Professor Silliman, before I let you go. Is there an appeal now that's routinely filed on behalf of Specialist Graner?

SILLIMAN: Yes. That will of course depends upon the sentence to be awarded, Wolf. We only have the verdict now. We don't know what his sentence will be after the conviction.

But, after the sentence, there is a series of automatic appeals that will cost Sergeant Graner nothing. He will have the assistance of counsel throughout the appellate process. The Uniform Code of Military Justice is an extremely fair system. So this is just the beginning of what we will see will be a long judicial process in his case.

BLITZER: If he had been convicted on all 10 of the specifications, convicted of nine of them, he was eligible for 17 1/2 years in prison? What do you suspect, Professor? What kind of sentence will get?

SILLIMAN: Well, again, Wolf, if in fact the jury believes that Graner received suggestions or was urged by folks within the facility to do this sort of activity, then I think the jury will recognize that. And, again, although it wasn't a legal defense that kept him from being convicted, they will probably consider that in mitigation and lessen any punishment that he might otherwise receive.

BLITZER: It went very quickly, Professor Silliman, the whole trial, the prosecution, the defense, the summation, and now only a few hours, the jury reaching this decision. Is this typical?

SILLIMAN: Yes, it is, Wolf.

Again, you're dealing with a very experienced, educated jury panel of senior enlisted personnel and officers who are instructed in the law. They know how to evaluate the evidence. So, it does not surprise me in this type of case that the jury came in, in the time that they did.

BLITZER: Professor Scott Silliman, professor of law at Duke University in North Carolina, himself a former U.S. Air Force lawyer, appreciate it very much.

I want to thank our viewers around the world on CNN International for joining us.

A reminder, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays at this time, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Specialist Charles Graner convicted, that was our breaking news.

Join me Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk. Among my guests, the White House counselor Dan Bartlett.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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Aired January 14, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now with development story we're watching. We're standing by for brand new images from the Saturn moon Titan. Will the detailed pictures give us a better clue about what looks like some riverbeds on the ringed planet's moon? Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Evacuation, a crack in the dam in California, hundreds forced to flee.

And in Ohio, thousands leave as the rivers keep rising.

Would a warning help? Shocking new video captures the force and fury of a tsunami in Thailand as officials plan a new alert system for this country.

Cutting contacts, after a bloody terror attack, Israel's prime minister severs all ties with the Palestinians until their new leader cracks down on militant groups.

Was Abraham Lincoln gay? The battlelines are drawn as a new book draws controversial conclusions about the president's private life.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, January 14, 2005.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Welcome to our viewers. We begin with a sudden breakdown in the Middle East after so much hope following the Palestinian elections of only last Sunday. A day after a bloody terror attack in Gaza left six Israeli civilians and three Palestinian gunmen dead, Israel has now sealed off Gaza and cut off all contact with the Palestinian Authority until newly elected leader Mahmoud Abbas cracks down on militant groups. Let's go live to Jerusalem, with John Vause who's standing by.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is a big is setback for the president-elect of the Palestinian Authority. It comes a day before he's set to take the oath of office after winning those weekend Palestinian elections. The decision by Ariel Sharon to suspend all contact is a clear indication that he holds Mahmoud Abbas directly responsible for an attack at a Gaza border crossing last night which left six Israeli civilian workers dead. There will be no contacts, according to an adviser to the prime minister, until Palestinian security services begin to take steps against the militant groups and in particular find and arrest those responsible or who were behind the attack last night. After last weekend's elections that Mr. Abbas won convincingly, hopes had been higher that the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks would resume. In the days after that election, Mr. Sharon telephoned Mr. Abbas offering his congratulations. During that conversation, Mr. Sharon said he hoped these two men would be able to meet soon, but now it appears that won't be happening either. Wolf.

BLITZER: The suspension or cancellation of all of these contacts, does that seem like it will be permanent or just until Mahmoud Abbas can get a grip on what's going on?

VAUSE: Well, there's a couple things happening here. The Israelis have said no talks until an end to the attacks, but Abbas is trying for a cease-fire. He worked for a number of weeks to try to get the militants to stop their attacks. Next month it appears there will still be Egyptian-brokered ceasefire talks between the Palestinian Authority and the militant groups. At this stage that appears as if it will still go ahead. If Abbas is successful there and the attacks stop, the there's every indication that the talks will resume -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John Vause, thanks very much.

Elsewhere in the Middle East, in Iraq the U.S. military announced the deaths of three more American troops. Two U.S. marines were killed in action yesterday while conducting security operations in the Al Anbar province. A 1st infantry soldier died near Mosul. A military spokesman said that death was not related to combat.

An Iraqi national guard official says attackers ambushed a bus carrying guard members about 90 miles west of Baghdad, some 15 Iraqi guardsmen were reported kidnapped. President Bush is sticking by his decision to go to war in Iraq, but now for the first time he's expressing some misgivings about some of his past statements about the war and other issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): This was then.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have. You just put me on the spot here and maybe I'm not as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one.

BLITZER: This is now.

BUSH: Watch what I say. Seriously. I do think I said some things in the first term that probably were a little blunt.

BLITZER: In an interview with Barbara Walters, President Bush suggested he does have some regrets about some of the things he said including this remark in July 2003 in response to insurgent attacks on U.S. troops in answer. BUSH: My answer is bring them on.

BLITZER: Here is what Mr. Bush has to say now.

BUSH: Bring it on was a little blunt. I was really speaking to our troops, but it came out and it had a different connotation, different meanings for others.

BLITZER: Iraqi insurgents have since used his statement on propaganda video. Then there was a statement the president made about Osama bin Laden in the week after the September 11 attacks.

BUSH: I want justice, and there's an old poster out west as I recall, that said, "wanted, dead or alive."

BLITZER: This is now.

BUSH: I remember when I talked about Osama bin Laden, we're going to get him dead or alive. I guess that's not the most diplomatic of language. Laura, as a matter of fact, chewed me out right after that. I do have to be cautious about, you know, conveying thoughts in a way maybe that doesn't send wrong impressions about our country.

BLITZER: Then there's the matter of Iraq. Arguing the case for the war, the president said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

BUSH: The Iraqi regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons every devised.

BLITZER: In the end, the hunt for weapons of mass destruction turned up empty. A CIA report this week suggested the war in Iraq has a benefit to Islamic terrorists providing training and recruits, but speaking about his decision to go to war, President Bush said that's one area where he has no regrets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): The full interview with President Bush will be seen tonight on ABC's "20/20." That airs 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this, do you think some of President Bush's comments have had unintended consequences? We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

It's the little probe that could and did. Spun off from its mother ship on Christmas Eve, the European Space Agency Huygens probe today landed on Saturn's largest moon called Titan, capping a multinational mission that was launched in 1997. Now the payoff. Pictures from that icy moon which have left some scientists overcome with emotion. For all these new developments let's go live to our space correspondence Miles O'Brien at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Pretty dramatic stuff? MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Incredible stuff. You'll see some pictures right now you'll only see on CNN. The European Space Agency hasn't officially released but one picture, but we had our sources send us what you're about to see and truly scientists are flabbergasted by what they are seeing on the surface of Titan. Take a look at the left. This is looking straight down. They're very interested in these white and dark features, wondering if some of this might be liquid methane seas. That's actually the horizon off there, and you're look down as if you're coming down say 30,000 feet or airline or altitudes.

Once again pictures that no one else has right now. No one has released. The European Space Agency very slow to release these things. This has got people flabbergasted, too. Looks like essentially river gullies. Methane river gullies. Who know? This could be a big body of essentially paint thinner or turpentine.

Finally take a look at these images. This is where I want to bring in our guest, Carolyn Porco. Carolyn is on the Cassini imaging team, and what we're seeing there, they look like rocks to me. It looks like some of the images we've seen from Mars. Carolyn, would you have ever predicted seeing rocks on the surface of Titan?

CAROLYN PORCO, CASSINI-HUYGENS PROJECT: I thought I was really flabbergasted by the first image which was drainage patterns, then came this image that looked for all the world like Mars. I have to say there were several of us who asked members of the team, come on, you're kidding, you slipped this in as a joke, because it looked so much like Mars. I have to say my impression was, rocks? Whoever thought of rocks? Of course it's not silicone rocks. If anything it's probably ice boulders, but they have different shapes, some are flattened. It looks for all the world like the plains we have seen in Mars. You know that which you covered last year around this time. So it's just remarkable. We're all -- all of us are flabbergasted, actually.

O'BRIEN: I never heard anybody talk about river gullies or rocks. It just shows what a mystery Titan was. Are you going to be changing everything that you've been thinking about Titan? Would you predict a complete 180-degree turn about what this planet or this moon is all about?

CAROLYN PORCO, CASSINI SCIENTIST: Well, let me correct you. There was a lot of talk about possibly carved gullies and riverbeds, so on, because the theories that we brought to Titan with us claimed that the processes in the atmosphere in fact would give rise to slow- moving droplets of light hydrocarbons that would end up on the surface possibly filling in depressions, filling in craters, making seas and puddles, and what have you. And people thought, yes, we might see geological structures that look very much like the Earth, familiar geological terrain carved by very unfamiliar materials. And in that sense, what we're seeing is perhaps closer to what we thought we would see than not.

We're not quite sure, except for this association with the gullies, we're not quite sure the black areas we're seeing are liquid, but there will be other information other information that we'll gather over time that will help us figure that out.

There is going to be, apparently will be a press briefing at 11:00 tomorrow morning and here at Darmstadt we hope to learn more. There may even be movies of the descent, so that should be really exciting.

O'BRIEN: That will be a movie worth watching.

Carolyn Porco, thank you for your time. And thank you for sharing the wonderment of this world that has defied a lot of the predictions.

Wolf, Titan has a mystery, but the haze has been pierced. And the question now is we might be looking at essentially a time capsule of what Earth looked like, say, 4 billion years ago.

BLITZER: Well, I was just going to ask, Miles, the fact there may be rocks on Titan, river gullies or riverbeds, what does that mean scientifically, what does that mean to the average viewer right now that says, you know what there are rocks on Titan, what's the big deal?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, what's the big deal? Well, there is just the holy cow factor of it. But you know, when you start looking at things and they look more and more familiar than you might expect, and you see things that you don't expect necessarily, you have to ask questions about how common life and how common life is all throughout our universe? And could it have been possible that at one time or another life might have taken hold here on this place? Maybe there is such a thing as a methane based life.

And so, to me, these are very profound questions. These aren't questions going to put a roof over your head or food in your stomach or take care of your kids' education, but I think they're questions that really resonate deep within side all of us, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, Miles O'Brien, right on top of this story like no other journalist out there. Thanks, Miles, very much.

An avalanche at popular Utah ski resort just occurred. We're going to get a live report.

And hundreds of homes evacuated as a California dam springs a leak. Engineers are trying to ease the pressure. How great is the danger?

The rivers are rising in Ohio. And residents there are taking absolutely no chances.

And look at this, an amazing new amateur video shows just how quickly a killer wave struck the coast of Thailand.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This is a developing story just coming in to CNN. There's been an avalanche this after noon near Park City, Utah. That's a popular spot for skiers. Search and rescue operations are now under way. Jill Atwood is a local radio personality, a former reporter for KSLTV in Salt Lake City. She's joining us on the phone. You saw what happened, Jill. Tell our viewers what you saw.

JILL ATWOOD, RADIO PERSONALITY: Well at this point, Wolf, there's unconfirmed reports as to how many people may have been trapped at this time. We initially heard 15. I've heard 10. I've heard 5.

What I can tell you what I saw was basically it looked like someone took a knife and sliced into the side of a mountain. This was a massive slide, probably 300 to 500 yards wide. And at this point I can tell you that search and rescue crews are finally at the scene. It took them a while to get there. There are search dogs there with beacons trying to locate anyone if they can. We have got explosives going off. And the explosives are just blow away some of the loose snow that could threaten search and rescue. More snow could come down.

But this is an area -- one of the highest points here at the Canyons Resort. You access it from the 9990 lift. And this is an area that was out of bounds, these folks did have to walk quite a bit, they had to hike to get to the point where they were. So this was not an avalanche-controlled area, although there were signs warning folks of the avalanche danger. But this is not an area that is controlled by the resort.

But I can tell you, Wolf, I was with the ski patrol supervisor right after it happened, and he said this is the one that we've been worried about. This is a popular out-of-bounds area, we've just gotten a ton of snow and, you know, the weather started to warm up, and just a huge slab has come off the side of this mountain.

BLITZER: Jill Atwood, thanks very much for updating us. And we'll continue to watch this story. We don't know yet how many people may have been trapped in that avalanche. But we'll watch it for our viewers.

There was a collective sigh of relief late today near Corona, California. Hundreds of residents there have been evacuated after water started seeping through a crack in a dam. CNN's Eric Philips is joining us live the scene in Corona with more. Eric, what's the latest?

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, the good news is that according to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the seepage at that dam, at the Prado Dam is now until control and is posing no threat. And that means residents could be allowed back into their homes, those who were evacuated could be allowed back into their homes this evening.

The seepage that was causing the problem came from a temporary barrier that was surrounding construction at the dam. The leak was first discovered early yesterday morning. And workers with the Army Corps of Engineers kept an eye on it all day long. When they realized the amount of water escaping was increasing exponentially, they notified local authorities who made the call to evacuate more than 800 homes that could have been in danger. A police spokesperson tells me officers went door to door making sure everyone got the word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JERRY RODRIGUEZ, CORONA POLICE: If we don't do anything and, you know, worst-case scenario the dam, you know, breaks or the water flows through where it floods the basin and people get hurt, then I think we get ourselves in trouble. So yes, it's a minor inconvenience, but I think in the long run, it's the safe thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIPS: Water levels at the dam were at an all-time high or near-record level, I should say, because of the ongoing rainfall they've had in this area. But officials are telling us that because they've released millions of gallons of water now, they're expecting by noon Monday the seepage will start altogether. We're waiting for a press conference to begin at this hour to find out whether or not residents will be allowed back in their homes this evening -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Eric Philips reporting. Thanks, Eric, very much.

In Ohio, the rivers are rising and residents have been moving to higher ground. Let's go live to CNN's Chris Huntington, he's in Marietta.

Chris, what's the latest there?

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, the clear and cool weather across much of the state of Ohio a welcomed respite from the torrential downpours that have soaked the state. And of course, the rivers up to flood levels in many, many areas. It's stable and it is predicted to get better, but for many people that simply means stable and getting better from a situation that is underwater.

The most acute situation in the state right now, 3,200 people isolated, that's according to the state's Office of Emergency Control, near Canton, Ohio. The Army Corps of Engineers estimates that the road should be passable there by midweek. So those folks, for the time being, are accessible only by boat.

In Cincinnati, which of course is in the southwestern corner of the state, the Ohio River there is said to continue rising and should crest on Sunday, but then recede.

In Columbus, Ohio, there's still flooding in many neighborhoods there and some of the highways going through that Central Ohio City are shut down.

In Delaware County near there, dams and flood control reservoirs are spilling over.

In Dayton, in the western part of the state, there's still moderate flooding in many of the neighborhoods there along the Great Miami River. Spillways there, also, are pretty much at capacity. And that is the story, really.

That brings us back here to Marietta, where the situation is relatively benign. The army corps said the river has crested today, about 20 feet above normal level, but still about 4 feet below a level that would threaten the main historic district here. And that's almost due entirely, Wolf, to the elaborate flood control system that operates upriver from here in Marietta -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Chris Huntington.

Severe weather is also causing problem in Virginia. this morning, heavy rains caused street flooding in the Charlottesville area. Power lines, trees and wires were reported down.

Arkansas's governor toured tornado-damaged areas of that state today. A twister killed 2 people late Wednesday night. And it's also blamed for a small plane crash that killed the pilot. It cut a path of destruction some 20 miles long. As many as 30 homes were badly damaged or destroyed.

Following last month's disaster in the Indian Ocean, the United States plans a major expansion of its tsunami warning system. The White House said today the warning system in the Pacific will be enhanced, and monitoring will be added for the Atlanta, the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. Some scientists fear the U.S. East Coast is vulnerable to a tsunami spawned by a volcano or an earthquake. The goal of the enhanced system is to detect and respond to a U.S. coastal tsunami within minutes.

You're looking now at some new amateur video which shows the terrifying speed and fury of the tsunami as it hit the beach in Phuket, Thailand. Standing in the water atop debris left by an earlier wave, people looked on as a larger, killer wave swept towards them unaware of how powerful it was. Then a desperate effort to flee.

Reuters says it received a video from a local man who got it from a tourist who has since left Thailand.

We'll have more on the developing story from Utah, that avalanche at the resort near Park City. We're watching that story for you.

Plus, a set of significant opportunities on the horizon for President Bush. Our Carlos Watson is standing by with the inside edge. He'll join us live.

Was President Abraham Lincoln gay? A new book by a scholar is raising that question, and causing quite a huge debate among historians.

And remembering Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The actor Martin Sheen is involved in a special performance to honor the civil rights leader. I'll speak with Martin Sheen. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Next week, President Bush kicks off his second term. He says he plans to spend the political capital he earned in the reelection. Following all this, our CNN political analyst Carlos Watson. He joins us every Friday with "The Inside Edge."

Carlos, the inauguration represents an opportunity for the president. What do you see?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Significantly, Wolf, the president really has at least three key audiences that he has to win over. One, he certainly has got to impress foreign leaders abroad, knowing that a lot of his agenda going forward has to do with Iraq, North Korea and other places.

Two, you're going to hear in the inauguration things that really appeal, not to Congress in general, but particularly to members of the Republican party, those who may be a little bit hesitant, frankly, on questions like Social Security or major changes with regard to immigration reform.

And last but not least, you'll see him do a lot of work in terms of rallies the public generally, especially convincing them that there's enough of a need to make big changes on some of these issues, around say, tort reform or again around Social Security.

The other thing to note, Wolf, which is very interesting, is that the White House has been much more strategic in seeing that this inauguration is one of really only three major events that the president has an opportunity to shape the discussion going forward.

There's the inauguration next Thursday. Then we have the elections in Iraq at the end of the month and then -- the State of the Union Speech. So 3 significant opportunities for the president to make his case to these different audiences.

BLITZER: Switching gears now, there's also a moment that looks like a bit of progress with North Korea. This is a huge issue, given the nuclear capability of that Communist regime.

WATSON: It is. And you know, there's been some concern that over the last several years North Korea has expanded its nuclear capability, maybe having potentially enough materials for as many as 8 nuclear weapons. So there's been a lot of concern. A group of members of Congress, actually 2 different delegations. One, the most recent included Representative Kurt Weldon of Pennsylvania, just made an announcement that it seems the North Koreans are willing to return to multiparty talks.

If indeed that's true, and frankly, that has to be verified, I think it would be a fairly significant move for the president in the progress there, and in the progress that he recently was able to announce, at least the Europeans were, on Iran. You may be able to see a new framework going forward at how the president deals with some of these sticky international issues, namely multiparty talks, not just bilateral talks.

BLITZER: What do you see unfolding in this race for a new chairman of the Democratic Party?

WATSON: Well, it seems that, once again, Howard Dean is becoming the defining element in the Democratic Party.

Remember, the 2003/2004 Democratic primary was defined by Howard Dean. He set the tone, the strong anti-war tone. And, ultimately, the conversation became Dean or anti-Dean. And you remember that John Kerry emerged as the anti-Dean and ultimately won the nomination. Once again, in the race for the DNC chair, in effect the opening salvo in the 2008 presidential election on the Democratic side, Howard Dean is once again that catalytic figure.

There's Dean's candidacy, which in a recent unscientific poll of about half of the members of the Democratic National Committee, he seemed to be the front-runner. But, again, people are galvanizing around Martin Frost, the former congressman from Texas, who right now is the leading anti-Dean candidate. So it's interesting to see Howard Dean remain the driving force for the Democrats in 2005.

BLITZER: Carlos Watson always has "The Inside Edge," especially on this program every Friday.

Carlos, thanks very much. Have a great weekend.

WATSON: Good to see you. You have a good weekend, too.

BLITZER: Thank you, Carlos.

Controversy surrounding a former president's private life and personal relations. There are now at least some historians who suggest President Abraham Lincoln was gay. We'll assess that assessment.

And fallout to Prince Harry's costume debacle. Will he visit a concentration camp as part of his apology?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Questioning President Lincoln's sexual preference, why at least some serious scholars are now suggesting he was gay. We'll get to that.

First, though, a quick check of some other stories now in the news.

Search-and-rescue operations under way right now near Park City, Utah, where an avalanche struck just outside a ski area. Authorities say at least one backcountry skier was trapped. A series of storms has dumped as much as 9 feet of snow in the area since late last month.

A jury in Texas is deliberating the court-martial case of Army Specialist Charles Graner, the alleged ringleader of the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Both the defense and prosecution completed closing arguments earlier today. Graner could face up to 17 1/2 years in a U.S. military prison.

A royal spokeswoman says there are no plans for Britain's Prince Harry to visit the site of a Nazi death camp, but he may become involved with some Jewish charities. The prince has apologized for wearing a Nazi uniform to a costume party, but critics insist that's not long enough.

Historians have long argued over aspects of Abraham Lincoln's private life, including whether he had gay relationships. Now a new book aims to resolve that issue once and for all. Instead, it's only spurring more serious scholarly debate.

Our Brian Todd has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The great emancipator, the indispensable president whose power endures is the indisputable part of Abraham Lincoln's legacy. Exploring his private side is a more delicate business, historians often in disagreement about his marriage and personal relationships.

A newly published book on the sexuality of the 16th American president opens a bitter divide.

JEAN BAKER, GOUCHER COLLEGE: We need to have these kinds of perhaps unpopular views of a major American icon presented to the public.

TODD: In "The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln," author and sex researcher C.A. Tripp takes hold of a theory that Lincoln had homosexual attachments, emotional and physical, throughout his life. Tripp takes hold and doesn't let go.

PHILIP NOBILE, HISTORIAN: He assumed going into his history that Lincoln was gay.

TODD: Philip Nobile once worked on the book with Tripp. He believes Lincoln had homosexual leanings, but quit the projects and now joins a host of writers who slams Tripp's work in news articles.

NOBILE: He was cooking evidence. He was fabricating material. He was also suppressing important information about Lincoln heterosexuality.

TODD: An open heterosexual history that included a long marriage to Mary Todd and four children.

Contacted by CNN, a spokesman for Tripp's publisher, Free Press, said the firm is -- quote -- "confident that the finished book reflects Tripp's ideas, as supported by his extensive research."

To bolster his argument, Tripp focuses on close friendships Lincoln had with four men, including young store owner Joshua Speed, who Lincoln shared a bed with for four years beginning in his late 20s, who later received letters from Lincoln signed, "Yours forever," and Army Captain and presidential bodyguard David Derickson. During the Civil War, historians agree the president slept in the same bed with Derickson at his summer retreat.

But prominent historians and Lincoln scholars say it was very common for heterosexual men to share beds in the 1800s. Mattresses were expensive. Private quarters were scarce and it simply was accepted practice. Flowery prose was also commonly written by heterosexual men to other men. They say it's pure bunk to make the leap to a homosexual Lincoln and there's no solid historical evidence to back it up.

Others, including a historian who wrote the introduction to Tripp's book, believe the complexity of this man's life leaves opens at least a possibility.

As for evidence:

BAKER: And unless you have a blue dress from the Gap with stains on it, how are you going to be able to argue any point about sexuality, that I would perhaps say, in the language of today, that he was bisexual and that he was incidentally homosexual?

TODD: But finality on this issue is perhaps impossible. What we end with is what we seem to already know. This was a painfully shy man, prone to dark moods, emotionally elusive.

(on camera): And the central problem remains. Our protagonist and the author to have claimed part of his psyche are not here to clarify the record. C.A. Tripp died in 2003, two weeks after finishing the manuscript.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And we'll have more on the controversial subject. That's coming up ahead. I'll speak with two historians who have researched Abraham Lincoln extensively.

Plus, delivering the promises of Martin Luther King, how America will commemorate the civil rights leader this weekend. The actor Martin Sheen is involved. My interview with him, that is coming up as well.

And, later, more extreme weather, a snowy scene today in a place unusually -- usually known, that is, for its beaches.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Returning now to the subject of a new and controversial book on Abraham Lincoln, questions about his sexual preference.

I'm joined by a pair of historians well versed on the subject. Michael Chesson of the University of Massachusetts is joining us from Boston. And Michael Burlingame of Connecticut College joins us from Hartford.

Professors, thanks very much for joining us.

Professor Chesson, do you suspect -- you believe that Abraham Lincoln was gay. Why?

PROF. MICHAEL CHESSON, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS: I believe he was gay because, as Michael Burlingame so persuasively argued in his 1994 book, "The Inner World of Abraham Lincoln," quoting the first sentence in chapter six, Abraham Lincoln did not like women.

And we could go on from there. He was clearly attracted to men. They were attracted to him. He felt most comfortable in their company. He did not seek out other women. His courtship of Mary Todd and perhaps other women was notably awkward and troubled, as was his subsequent marriage to her. And I certainly agree with Professor Burlingame that the Lincoln marriage was the union from hell.

BLITZER: Well, is that true, Professor Burlingame? You don't believe Abraham Lincoln was gay, though, do you?

PROF. MICHAEL BURLINGAME, CONNECTICUT COLLEGE: I think it's highly unlikely. It's possibly, but highly unlikely.

BLITZER: Because?

BURLINGAME: Because the evidence of his romantic and sexual interests in women is strong. And the evidence for his romantic and sexual interest in men is very meager and dubious.

BLITZER: Well, did you write in your book what Professor Chesson says you wrote?

BURLINGAME: I did. I said that Abraham Lincoln did not like women, but I did not mean to imply in that statement that he was not sexually and romantically interested in some women. He just felt uncomfortable in the presence of women in general.

BLITZER: Professor Chesson, there's a history of Lincoln's relationships with at least four women, one of them, of course, being his wife, Mary. You know, obviously, about that history.

CHESSON: I do.

And I think the explanation for that troubled marriage may have been his same-sex orientation. Tripp has criticized by Jean Baker, among others, in the preface for being too harsh on Mary Todd. Reading Tripp's manuscript made me much more sympathetic to her. He wasn't giving her what she wanted and needed. And he apparently wasn't attracted to her sexually. BLITZER: Well, give us some evidence that you have, beyond the fact that he shared a bed, which apparently was relatively common in those another -- with a friend of his who happened to be a man.

CHESSON: Bed-sharing was common in the 19th century, but sleeping with the same partner for four years, as he did with Joshua Speed, I suspect, was relatively uncommon.

The argument is made that, on the frontier, that in small towns, in a pioneer environment, beds were few and far between and bed- sharing was common. How many bedrooms are there in the White House, besides the Lincoln Bedroom? I would put your White House correspondence on that, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Professor Burlingame, what do you say about that?

BURLINGAME: Well, the relationship that Lincoln had with Joshua Speed was certainly close.

But we have evidence that Speed total Lincoln's law partner, William Herndon, that one day Lincoln came to him and said, Speed, do you know where I can get some? And Speed said to Lincoln, well, yes, I do, but you're going to need a note from me. It's my fancy women. So Lincoln then went with the note and visited Speed's fancy woman. Now, why, if Lincoln was having a sexual relationship with Speed and Speed was having a sexual relationship with Lincoln, why would they go to a fancy woman?

BLITZER: What about that, Professor Chesson?

CHESSON: I'm not arguing and I don't believe Tripp argued that Lincoln was exclusively homosexual. Nobody is denying that he eventually had a marriage with Mary Todd and that they had four sons. I think, definitionally, according to one of the afterwards by a psychologist, Lincoln was a bisexual.

I believe that he had sexual relations with men and with Mary Todd.

BLITZER: In the mid 1800s, Professor Burlingame, what was the general concept of homosexuality here in the United States?

BURLINGAME: Well, the term homosexuality had not been devised, of course, by that time. And the prohibition or the moral taboo on homosexuality was pretty strong.

BLITZER: So it was a well known taboo, obviously.

Professor Chesson, if in fact Abraham Lincoln was gay, historically speaking, what would that mean to you?

CHESSON: Well, what it would mean to me is that I might have a possible explanation for his secretive nature. He was reclusive. He played his cards close to the vest. He was a quiet, private man, except when he was telling his smutty jokes that had a strong anal fixation.

BLITZER: And what about you, Professor Burlingame?

BURLINGAME: Well, if Lincoln were to be proven gay, it might help explain the relationship with David Derickson, which to my mind is the most telling piece of evidence that Dr. Tripp introduces in his book.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Tell our viewers who that is.

BURLINGAME: David Derickson was a captain who was the head of the -- was with the guard that protected President Lincoln when he stayed at the summer home during his presidency.

BLITZER: All right.

Professor Burlingame and Professor Chesson, we're going to have to cut this a little short, because we're getting some breaking news from Fort Hood, Texas, right now. I want to thank both of you for joining us. We'll probably continue this conversation down the road.

Susan Candiotti, our reporter covering the court-martial of U.S. Army Specialist Charles Graner.

Susan, a verdict has come in.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

And he's been found guilty of all but one count of the five charges. Let's go over them, Wolf. This came after five hours of deliberation by this jury made of 10 people. And let's go over them one by one.

First of all, the first charge is conspiracy. He was found guilty. That included a specification account of a leash being wrapped around the neck of a detainee. We're all very familiar with this photo, the leash being held by Graner's girlfriend, Lynndie England.

Now, conspiracy, the specification two, or the second count, that included the conspiracy count of the photograph that we've all seen before of the stacked pile of detainees that were naked. Going on to the next charge, he was found guilty of dereliction of duty, with one exception on the first count. And going to charge three, also found guilty of specification one. That also involved the naked pyramid.

Specification two, he was also found guilty. That also included a photograph that has been seen before and was played in court of detainees who were made to simulate a sex act. Specification three, that's count three of charge three, found guilty as well. This involved a photograph that we have seen before with Specialist Graner with his arm cocked back, as though he was about to hit a detainee in the neck or back. Also, count four of that same charge, maltreatment of subordinates or detainees, that is the charge we're talking about, again count four, he was found guilty of that charge as well. Moving on to the fourth charge, aggravated assault, he was found guilty of count one or also know as specification one, causing bodily harm. He was also -- he was found not guilty with a lesser degree of that second count that involves again aggravated assault.

And going now to charge five, he was also found guilty of indecent acts. Now, as we understand it from the judge, this jury will be coming back in about 45 minutes or so to continue the sentencing phase. There is no hearing in between, no stop in between. And they will be coming back to deal with that immediately.

You will remember that, if he had been found guilty on all of these counts, he could be spending more than 17 years in a military prison -- Wolf.

BLITZER: How much leeway does the judge have, Susan, on how many years this U.S. Army Specialist Charles Graner, convicted, found guilty of nine out of these 10 of specific charges, how many years -- how much leeway does the judge have?

CANDIOTTI: Of course, it differs according to the count, but it is the jury that will be sentencing him, actually, not the judge. The jury will decide in this case.

And some of the counts differ. Some of them only carry one year. Some of them carry up to three years -- I should say, up to one year, up to three years, and up to five years. That would be the most amount of time that he could receive on any one particular count -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's get some analysis.

Professor Scott Silliman of Duke University Law School is joining us, formerly served in the U.S. military as a lawyer.

What's your analysis of this conviction, Professor?

SCOTT SILLIMAN, DUKE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Wolf, it's not a surprise.

Graner tried to mount what's called the obedience to orders defense. It was an exceedingly difficult defense for him to be successful in, because he had to show that he either did not know that the order was illegal or had no reason to believe it was illegal. I think the jury obviously did not believe that. They had solid evidence against him, so being convicted of most of the charges does not come as a surprise.

BLITZER: But the argument that he was simply obeying orders, that he thought they had told him to soften up these Iraqi detainees for interrogation purposes, what about that argument?

SILLIMAN: Wolf, there's a difference between a suggestion or even an urging being given to Graner and an official order that he would be required to comply with.

If in fact the jury believes that the CIA or anyone else that was there with Graner perhaps persuaded him to use these tactics, then that would be a matter for the jury to consider in mitigation of punishment, but it's not a defense to the charge.

BLITZER: What does conviction mean, would you suspect, for the others who face similar accusations?

SILLIMAN: Well, because Graner was considered to be the ringleader in this, Wolf, I suspect that this would not bode well for the others facing similar charges. And my guess is that many of them will be looking to somehow work a plea agreement with the commanders to see if they can mitigate the punishment on a plea of guilty.

BLITZER: So, if they avoid a trial, if you will, if they just plead guilty, they might get some sort of reduced sentence. That would be the kind of plea agreement in a civilian criminal proceeding that would go forward. Is it the same thing in military justice?

SILLIMAN: It's similar, Wolf.

A military accused can make an agreement with the senior commander who convened the court. And it would he or she would be guilty in exchange for cap on the sentence that would be administered after the jury awarded punishment and when the case was under review. It would be reduced down to that agreed-to amount.

So, that is in all probability what we will be seeing in these other cases.

BLITZER: What do they expect of U.S. military personnel? And remember, these were largely reservists, those U.S. soldiers who were dealing with the situation at the Abu Ghraib prison. And many of them certainly were not prepared for what they eventually found themselves in.

The U.S. military, if they get an order, a soldier or an airman, sailor, Marine, and they believe the order to be unlawful, what are they supposed to do at that point?

SILLIMAN: Well, they are to refuse the order, Wolf. If they are given an order which they either know to be illegal or have reason to believe would be illegal, they must refuse it.

And if they do not refuse it, then they are culpable, as we're finding in these cases.

BLITZER: So, in other words, if Specialist Graner did receive some sort of order from his commanders at the Abu Ghraib prison, go ahead, humiliate these prisoners, make them feel like dirt, abuse them, don't kill them, but just make them feel awful, because then they'll be easier for us to question, what should he have said then to his commanders?

SILLIMAN: He should have had, sir, that's an illegal order. That's against the law. I cannot and will not do that.

BLITZER: In the real world of U.S. military, though, Professor, and under combat circumstances, how realistic is it that a low-level U.S. soldier would do that to a commander, would tell a commander, that is unlawful, sir, and I won't do it?

SILLIMAN: Wolf, what we've got to understand is that every member of the military, including reservists and Guardsmen, are in fact given training in international humanitarian law at least once a year, in Geneva Convention law.

So, to believe that a member of the service, no matter what their grade, would agree to this type of conduct, assuming that it was lawful, to me just does not make sense. So, I think, although the relationship of superior to subordinate may make it difficult, nonetheless, we expect not only the young man or woman to refuse that order, but also to report that the order was given.

BLITZER: And based on your experience, do reservists and National Guard personnel who are activated get the same kind of education as far as the law is concerned?

SILLIMAN: They're supposed to, Wolf, because we expect the Reserve and Guard folks to train to the active-duty mission. And when you talk to most of them, they are very proud of the fact that they do that.

BLITZER: What will this conviction -- what will be the resounding sound, the impact of this conviction on the fighting men and women in Iraq?

SILLIMAN: I think the vast majority of them, Wolf, will welcome it, because they would agree that the type of behavior that was depicted in the pictures coming out of Abu Ghraib was abhorrent and something that they believe constituted a blot upon their good record.

So I think we'll find that this verdict in this case will be welcomed by the vast majority of the armed forces personnel.

BLITZER: One final question, Professor Silliman, before I let you go. Is there an appeal now that's routinely filed on behalf of Specialist Graner?

SILLIMAN: Yes. That will of course depends upon the sentence to be awarded, Wolf. We only have the verdict now. We don't know what his sentence will be after the conviction.

But, after the sentence, there is a series of automatic appeals that will cost Sergeant Graner nothing. He will have the assistance of counsel throughout the appellate process. The Uniform Code of Military Justice is an extremely fair system. So this is just the beginning of what we will see will be a long judicial process in his case.

BLITZER: If he had been convicted on all 10 of the specifications, convicted of nine of them, he was eligible for 17 1/2 years in prison? What do you suspect, Professor? What kind of sentence will get?

SILLIMAN: Well, again, Wolf, if in fact the jury believes that Graner received suggestions or was urged by folks within the facility to do this sort of activity, then I think the jury will recognize that. And, again, although it wasn't a legal defense that kept him from being convicted, they will probably consider that in mitigation and lessen any punishment that he might otherwise receive.

BLITZER: It went very quickly, Professor Silliman, the whole trial, the prosecution, the defense, the summation, and now only a few hours, the jury reaching this decision. Is this typical?

SILLIMAN: Yes, it is, Wolf.

Again, you're dealing with a very experienced, educated jury panel of senior enlisted personnel and officers who are instructed in the law. They know how to evaluate the evidence. So, it does not surprise me in this type of case that the jury came in, in the time that they did.

BLITZER: Professor Scott Silliman, professor of law at Duke University in North Carolina, himself a former U.S. Air Force lawyer, appreciate it very much.

I want to thank our viewers around the world on CNN International for joining us.

A reminder, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays at this time, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Specialist Charles Graner convicted, that was our breaking news.

Join me Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk. Among my guests, the White House counselor Dan Bartlett.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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