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American Morning
Interview with Senator Arlen Specter; 'Paging Dr. Gupta'
Aired January 27, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The man who's apparent failed suicide attempt is believed to have caused that deadly train collision in Glendale, California is due in court. Speaking just moments ago, police said the man will be booked for further investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF RANDY ADAMS, GLENDALE POLICE DEPT.: He will be arraigned today in division 30 of the Los Angeles Courts. And at that time, the district attorney's office will make a determination as to what the charges will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: At least 11 people were killed and some 120 others injured in yesterday's crash.
In San Mateo, California, FBI agents Are combing through e-mail and other records seized in the home of accused steroid dealer Victor Conte. Yesterday's raid on Conte's home was part of a probe into who may have leaked testimony from a grand jury hearing involving the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Op, or BALCO. Victor Conte is BALCO's founder. Officials say he helped distribute illegal drugs to dozens of top athletes.
And investigators say they'll know within two weeks whether they will bring possible charges against entertainer Bill Cosby. Detectives interviewed Cosby yesterday in a follow-up to a complaint he had inappropriately touched a woman almost a year ago. Officials say Cosby has been cooperating fully.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: With his secretary of state now in place, President Bush hopes to have his new attorney general on the job very soon.
The Alberto Gonzales nomination was sent to the full Senate by the Judiciary Committee yesterday on a straight line party vote, 10-8.
Pennsylvania Republican Senator Arlen Specter is chairman of the Judiciary Committee, my guest, back again, on Capitol Hill.
Senator, welcome back here, and good morning.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you, Bill, and nice to talk to you. HEMMER: If memory serves me, you predicted an overwhelming approval for Alberto Gonzales. 10-8 doesn't sound overwhelming. What happened?
SPECTER: Well, I had been very hopeful it would not be a party line vote because Judge Gonzales would have been much stronger in the attorney general's position.
But his testimony eroded the support for him. He ended up being blamed for what others had done.
The Department of Justice issued a memorandum on the legal issues, which Judge Gonzales disagreed with, for example, there was a point where the Department of Justice said the president had as much authority on questioning detainees as on battlefield decisions, which was very extreme and really wrong.
And then it was the Department of Defense which decided what questions would be asked, not the Judge Gonzales.
But there's a very heavy air of politics hanging over Washington and we all know that.
Dr. Condoleezza Rice had more votes cast against her for secretary of state than any secretary of state nominee in history.
HEMMER: Back to Gonzales for a moment here.
Senator Kennedy accused him of stonewalling. Did you read it the same way?
SPECTER: No, I didn't.
Senator Kennedy asked him about conversations which were held several years earlier, and it is really unreasonable to ask Judge Gonzales to remember specifics.
Judge Gonzales talked about being in meetings, talked about the specific interrogation techniques, didn't dodge it. It wasn't up to him to make decisions or judgments.
He would not answer hypothetical questions, Bill. There's an overhang here on the so-called ticking bomb hypothetical.
If there is a ticking bomb and it is known there will be a detonation and kill tens of thousands of people in a big city, what would be appropriate conduct to try to get the information from somebody?
And Judge Gonzales wouldn't answer those hypotheticals, and I don't think he should have.
HEMMER: You said something, Senator, at the end of your first answer there about the tone in Washington today, and perhaps that's the bigger story here because Republicans control the Senate. They have the majority. So it appears Gonzales will be confirmed, it's just a question of when.
But perhaps you could address what you saw from the Democrats in the solidarity. What explains why they would go across party lines with all eight votes against him?
SPECTER: Well, they refused to go across party lines. And what happened at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo got somewhat out of hand. And this Department of Justice memorandum was really way off base. And Judge Gonzales disagreed with specific parts.
But once they had that fodder, it was used to proliferate. And initially several of the Democrats said they had expected to vote for Judge Gonzales. But once the ball started rolling and more politics in the air, it just went down hill.
HEMMER: But more to the point. You've been in Washington for many, many years.
SPECTER: Yes.
HEMMER: What's at the gut of this argument? When you look at Condoleezza Rice and what she went through and now what Alberto Gonzales may go through with further debate on the Senate floor?
SPECTER: Well, it's very, very political. It's against a backdrop of a great many issues.
And although we now have 55 Republicans, the Democrats are solidifying their group. And they banded together to give Condoleezza Rice a very tough time in the debate and in the hearings, and to unify against Gonzales.
And you come back to the basic points, Judge Gonzales was acting as the president's lawyer as White House counsel. And he was emphatic that he understood the difference between that role and attorney general when he's the attorney for all of the American people.
But once the politics starts rolling, it's a snowball effect that can't be stopped.
HEMMER: Don't the politics always come back to the issue of Iraq?
SPECTER: Well, that's a very heavy -- that's a very heavy overhang.
It is hoped that the elections which are going to be held will provide some level of encouragement to the people of Iraq to have their self-government. And that's a very heavy overhang. No doubt about it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator, for your time.
There in D.C., Arlen Specter on the Judiciary Committee.
SPECTER: Nice being with you, Bill. HEMMER: Nice to be with you. Thank you.
COSTELLO: Today the world is paying tribute to the more than one million people who died at the Nazi camp at Auschwitz, Poland. World leaders and concentration camp survivors are gathering to mark the 60th anniversary since its liberation.
Taking a live look now at Auschwitz, Poland, and it's so cold there. CNN's Chris burns is live in Auschwitz with more.
And the ceremonies have been delayed just a little bit. Is it because of the weather, Chris?
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it's just snowing like you wouldn't believe it, as you can see right now, and it really is representative of what happened during winters here, where people were struggling with the elements, trying to stay alive, as they waited to be killed by their Nazi masters.
And as you see, the people are gathering here. It is getting close to beginning. In just a few moments, there will be a train pulling in, as trains had pulled in with thousands of these prisoners, most of them Jewish, being pulled in here, separated, sorted out, many of them, most of them sent to be executed, either in the gas chambers or shot.
And we're standing just a few yards away from one of the ovens that would burn the bodies after they were killed. Today, there will be song, there will be prayers, there will be speeches by the presidents of Poland, and Russia and Israel, and there will be statements and accounts by some of the survivors, some of whom we spoke to in the last few days.
There was -- if you just try to get your mind around what happened here, there were between 1.1 and 1.5 million people killed here. There were more than 1,000 survivors who are here right now, just 1,000 survivors, who are trying to take that message saying those 1.1 to 1.5 million people did not die completely in vain. We have to get this message across to fight anti-Semitism, to fight racism, and today also is really -- it marks the day when Soviet troops came here to liberate this camp., around this time, at 2:30 in the afternoon here at Auschwitz.
Now, among others attending here, among the other leaders, is Vice President Dick Cheney. He will be attending, but he won't be speaking at this very place. He spoke a few moments earlier, talking and warning again -- warning against the evils of anti-Semitism and intolerance, and to fight that wherever it is in the world.
Back to you, Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Chris Burns, reporting live from Auschwitz, Poland. And as the ceremonies really get underway, of course CNN will bring part of it to you live -- Bill.
HEMMER: Carol, when Soviet liberators seized Auschwitz 60 years ago today, they found some 7,000 prisoners, some of them barely alive. Several hundred of them were children. One of the survivors is connected to our family here at CNN. CNN's Allan Chernoff today tells us the story of his own mother's story of surviving in Auschwitz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Among the few child survivors of Auschwitz, an 11-year-old girl, Rina Margulis (ph), my mother. She and her mother Hinda (ph) had endured half a year at the death factory. Each day pushed deeper into the hell on earth that was Auschwitz. Eleven years ago, our family visited the camp in Poland. My mother described the last time she saw her 9-year-old brother Romek (ph), the day he was selected to be gassed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he took this piece of bread and threw it here over the fence to my mother and said, you take it. I won't need it anymore. And then he started crying and ran away into the barrack.
CHERNOFF: Shipped in a cattle car from the slave labor camp legion my mom was tattooed upon arrival Prisoner A15647. Her bed was a wooden slat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just filled in straight through. Ten people.
CHERNOFF: Starvation was the daily diet. Chicory-flavored water masquerading as coffee. A sliver of bread and a bowl of watery soup. Sometimes there was a chance to swipe or organize food as the prisoners said. 60 years later, my mother remembers grabbing a cabbage near the kitchen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I looked left and I looked right and no one was around. And I took this cabbage as a birthday gift to my aunt Eva, and this was the best gift I could ever give her. It was worth more than any jewelry or gold or anything.
CHERNOFF: My mother got by as only a child could. Using her imagination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I always told my mother and my aunt what I am going to eat after the war. This was the big pleasure. I always said, I'm going to have for breakfast, 20 loaves of bread and five dozen eggs.
CHERNOFF: Yet every day she was surrounded by death. The crematory of smokestacks towered over the camp, blown up by the Nazis before liberators arrived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fire was coming out all of the time, day and night, and this was crematory where people were burned. And the smell of the flesh was all over the camp.
CHERNOFF: Were you afraid of dying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't think of death. I always figured out this is my last chance, I'm going to tell them, let's put up an uprising and not go in there and let's resist. And this was my plan.
CHERNOFF: By sheer luck, her selection never came. She and her mother survived. Her father, Abraham (ph) was killed trying to escape a death march.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know how I survived it, it's a pure chance. Not that I was in any way different from everybody else.
CHERNOFF: My mother Rina Margulis Chernoff (ph) witness and survivor, survivor of some of the darkest days on this planet, witness to man's inhumanity against man. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Thanks, Allan. Best to you and your family.
Let's get a break. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. Paging the good doctor now, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, about a death-defying journey. A North Carolina man discovered breathing in a body bag after he was declared dead.
Let's get to the CNN center and talk to Sanjay now.
First the story, Sanjay. Give it to us.
Good morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
The story I'm about to tell you is a very rare story. Still it happened. We're talking about Monday night. Larry Green, 29 years old, was walking through a darkened intersection in North Carolina when he was hit by a car. Several teams arrived, including rescue units and EMT teams. They are the first responders on the scene. That was where they found him there in that darkened intersection.
At the scene, they declared him dead. He was subsequently brought to the morgue. His clothes removed, better lighting there. The county coroner, the medical examiner there, Dr. Perdue, a retired surgeon, was examining Mr. Green and found trace amounts of movement in his abdomen suggesting some efforts to breathe.
At that point, he called the hospital back, and said it looks like this man is still alive, take him back to the hospital. He also checked his pulse in the carotid artery, which is here, and the radial artery, which is in the wrist, and the femoral artery, which is in the leg, and he couldn't find any pulses there. Yet based on that trace amount of breathing, he sent the patient back to the hospital.
Now obviously this is a very rare situation. In the olden days, Bill, They would actually bury people with bells. In case they did have an awakening, they could ring the bell, and people would come unearth them. That obviously doesn't happen very much anymore. But there are certain factors which can complicate the pronouncing of someone dead. For example, very cold temperatures. A very cold temperature can make someone's pulse and respirations nearly imperceptible. It was about 30 to 32 degrees that night in North Carolina. Also someone who's significantly obese or overweight, you may have a harder time finding the vital signs.
Again, Bill, a very rare story. Still, it happened. Mr. Green now is in the intensive-care unit in a North Carolina hospital.
HEMMER: Aren't there standards for declaring death of a patient though, Sanjay?
GUPTA: You know, it's interesting, we looked into this quite a bit, there are standards, but they actually vary from state to state. You know, again in the old days, they just put a mirror underneath your nose to see if you were still breathing. Now most people use something called an EKG, electrocardiogram, to try and determine whether or not there's a heart rhythm. If there's a hearty rhythm, obviously the heart is still beating, the patient is not dead. Most states require that you have an EKG actually done before pronouncing someone dead. Some states require a doctor only can pronounce someone dead.
In this situation, it's unclear. We actually called North Carolina state to try and find out whether an EKG was actually used on the scene, could not verify that information one way or the other. Needless to say, though, obviously a man was declared dead that was not -- Bill.
HEMMER: What happens if the coroner did not notice this, or discover this?
GUPTA: Yes, you know, that's a particularly frightening thought. Probably what would have happened is he would have been in a very cool refrigerator, and a very sick man with very weak vital signs already probably have died in the morgue that night and subsequently been picked up by the funeral home the following morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: Is he going to recover in the hospital now, do we know, fully or not?
GUPTA: It's tough to say. You know, he obviously had significant injuries, so significant that his vital signs were hard to find. He's in the intensive care unit. He's going to have a long road to matter what -- Bill.
HEMMER: Indeed. Sanjay, thanks for that. What a story out of North Carolina.
GUPTA: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, would you pay 17 grand for forgiveness? The "Cafferty File" has that, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: All right. Welcome back.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Bernie Ebbers' lawyers trying to convince jurors the former WorldCom CEO didn't know enough about his company to be aware of the biggest fraud in American history. Sure. Andy Serwer's here "Minding Your Business."
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE": Remember, they call that the stupid defense. We're going to explain it because they outlined it a little bit yesterday.
Let's talk about the markets first of all, though, Jack. Stocks up yesterday. You can see 37 points on the Dow. Happening this morning, reports of a big merger between SBC and AT&T. We will wait to see if anything develops on that front. AT&T up in European trading this morning.
Also, durable goods for the year came out just now for 2004. Up 10.9 percent. That's the best showing in a decade. Economy's got some life to it, I guess.
CAFFERTY: Wow. Here's good news.
SERWER: Pretty interesting.
All right, a couple trials to talk about. First of all, the WorldCom thing, as Jack's mentioned. Bernie Ebbers, his attorneys trying to paint him as not being aware enough to really understand, to be able to orchestrate a billion dollar fraud.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
SERWER: And they heard Bernie's voice yesterday, the jurors did. It wasn't him talking. They played a voicemail of him talking, a conference call talking to a Wall Street analyst. The Wall Street analyst asked him, Bernie, when do you think we're going to come out of the recession?
Bernie says, as far as indicators of when we're going to come out of the recession, you know, remember, I'm a P.E. graduate, as in PhysEd, not an economist, so I really don't know if I can speak about that with any credibility to anything. Unquote. Maybe he's got a point, though, Jack, about himself.
CAFFERTY: You know, how much money was lost in the WorldCom collapse?
SERWER: 11. Yes.
CAFFERTY: $11 billion.
SERWER: Fraud, yes. That's a lot of...
CAFFERTY: Unbelievable. Now, the Tyco trial had an unexpected visitor yesterday. SERWER: Yes. The old juror number four. Old juror four. You remember her, Ruth Jordan. She was the one who basically caused the mistrial last year when she allegedly made a hand signal identified by the media, received threatening letters. The judge called the whole thing off.
She shows up at the trial yesterday and she had a couple comments. She goes, you know, Mark smiled at me. Mark being one of the co-defendants, Mark Swartz, chief financial officer of the company. Mark smiled at me. Yes, right. She said, I'm interested. She insisted they're innocent and then she said she's going to come to the trial from time to time, but not every day, because she's says I've got a life. No, you don't. You don't have a life.
CAFFERTY: Wrong.
SERWER: You know, that's why you're there. I think she should be barred.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I do, too.
SERWER: She's a nuisance.
CAFFERTY: She's a distraction.
SERWER: She is.
CAFFERTY: The judge should throw her out.
SERWER: Throw her out.
CAFFERTY: Here's "The File."
PBS has pulled an episode of a kids show that features lesbians. But public TV stations in New York and Boston say they're going to run it, anyway. The show is "Postcards from Buster." It's about an animated bunny that visits a Vermont farm and meets a family headed by two mothers.
President Bush's education secretary Margaret Spelling wrote a letter to PBS, expressing quote, "strong, very serious concerns about this program." She said parents would not want their young children exposed to the lifestyles portrayed in this episode. She also said that's not what Congress intended when they provided funding for PBS.
SERWER: Lesbian bunnies.
CAFFERTY: No, no, no, no. The bunny visits a farm where there are lesbian mothers.
SERWER: Oh, sorry.
COSTELLO: You got that, Andy?
SERWER: Oh, I got it. It's a confusing story.
CAFFERTY: This is the only time "The File" has ever been too deep for anybody to understand.
SERWER: Consider who was saying this.
CAFFERTY: Teachers who can't speak English may soon be barred from classrooms in North Dakota. What a great idea. A state lawmaker is proposing a bill that would allow state university students who complain about their teacher's speaking ability to get a refund of their tuition and fees if the instructor can't speak correct English or is difficult to be understood.
The law would also require instructors to prove their command of English in an interview before they're allowed to go in the classroom and confuse the students. State representative Bette Grandy (ph) says the number one priority of higher education is instructing the students, the paying customer.
And finally, if a dozen roses doesn't get you off the hook, try this. A man whose marriage is on the rocks took out a full-page ad in Tuesday's "Florida Times-Union" newspaper to beg his wife's forgiveness. Cost him $17,000. The ad reads, "Please believe the words in my heart. They're true and from my heart. I can only hope" -- he's not a great writer, but he did have 17 grand to lay out for this thing. "I only hope you'll give me the chance to prove my unending love for you. Life without you is empty and meaningless."
Well, his life is still empty and meaningless, because it's still without her. Mary Ann left the guy two weeks ago. She reportedly has seen the ad, but he hasn't heard a word from her. Sounds like he should have saved the $17,000 to pay the divorce lawyer.
COSTELLO: Well, he should have bought her a diamond. Wouldn't that have said a lot more than mere words?
SERWER: Well, I guess so.
HEMMER: Should have consulted a woman instead of a Web site.
CAFFERTY: He should have been spent the $17,000 on some young chick who doesn't know any better.
HEMMER: Well, you got that option, too, Carol.
COSTELLO: Could be a lot more fun for Larry.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: Larry, you could have had a lot of fun with that money, partner.
HEMMER: Let's get a break, here. We'll get top stories in a moment here, top of the hour, including a look at the preparations that continue in Iraq for elections on Sunday. How can U.S. forces learn from mistakes in the early days of the war? A retired general who led troops into Baghdad will talk about that. He's our guest live, top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 27, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The man who's apparent failed suicide attempt is believed to have caused that deadly train collision in Glendale, California is due in court. Speaking just moments ago, police said the man will be booked for further investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF RANDY ADAMS, GLENDALE POLICE DEPT.: He will be arraigned today in division 30 of the Los Angeles Courts. And at that time, the district attorney's office will make a determination as to what the charges will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: At least 11 people were killed and some 120 others injured in yesterday's crash.
In San Mateo, California, FBI agents Are combing through e-mail and other records seized in the home of accused steroid dealer Victor Conte. Yesterday's raid on Conte's home was part of a probe into who may have leaked testimony from a grand jury hearing involving the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Op, or BALCO. Victor Conte is BALCO's founder. Officials say he helped distribute illegal drugs to dozens of top athletes.
And investigators say they'll know within two weeks whether they will bring possible charges against entertainer Bill Cosby. Detectives interviewed Cosby yesterday in a follow-up to a complaint he had inappropriately touched a woman almost a year ago. Officials say Cosby has been cooperating fully.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: With his secretary of state now in place, President Bush hopes to have his new attorney general on the job very soon.
The Alberto Gonzales nomination was sent to the full Senate by the Judiciary Committee yesterday on a straight line party vote, 10-8.
Pennsylvania Republican Senator Arlen Specter is chairman of the Judiciary Committee, my guest, back again, on Capitol Hill.
Senator, welcome back here, and good morning.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you, Bill, and nice to talk to you. HEMMER: If memory serves me, you predicted an overwhelming approval for Alberto Gonzales. 10-8 doesn't sound overwhelming. What happened?
SPECTER: Well, I had been very hopeful it would not be a party line vote because Judge Gonzales would have been much stronger in the attorney general's position.
But his testimony eroded the support for him. He ended up being blamed for what others had done.
The Department of Justice issued a memorandum on the legal issues, which Judge Gonzales disagreed with, for example, there was a point where the Department of Justice said the president had as much authority on questioning detainees as on battlefield decisions, which was very extreme and really wrong.
And then it was the Department of Defense which decided what questions would be asked, not the Judge Gonzales.
But there's a very heavy air of politics hanging over Washington and we all know that.
Dr. Condoleezza Rice had more votes cast against her for secretary of state than any secretary of state nominee in history.
HEMMER: Back to Gonzales for a moment here.
Senator Kennedy accused him of stonewalling. Did you read it the same way?
SPECTER: No, I didn't.
Senator Kennedy asked him about conversations which were held several years earlier, and it is really unreasonable to ask Judge Gonzales to remember specifics.
Judge Gonzales talked about being in meetings, talked about the specific interrogation techniques, didn't dodge it. It wasn't up to him to make decisions or judgments.
He would not answer hypothetical questions, Bill. There's an overhang here on the so-called ticking bomb hypothetical.
If there is a ticking bomb and it is known there will be a detonation and kill tens of thousands of people in a big city, what would be appropriate conduct to try to get the information from somebody?
And Judge Gonzales wouldn't answer those hypotheticals, and I don't think he should have.
HEMMER: You said something, Senator, at the end of your first answer there about the tone in Washington today, and perhaps that's the bigger story here because Republicans control the Senate. They have the majority. So it appears Gonzales will be confirmed, it's just a question of when.
But perhaps you could address what you saw from the Democrats in the solidarity. What explains why they would go across party lines with all eight votes against him?
SPECTER: Well, they refused to go across party lines. And what happened at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo got somewhat out of hand. And this Department of Justice memorandum was really way off base. And Judge Gonzales disagreed with specific parts.
But once they had that fodder, it was used to proliferate. And initially several of the Democrats said they had expected to vote for Judge Gonzales. But once the ball started rolling and more politics in the air, it just went down hill.
HEMMER: But more to the point. You've been in Washington for many, many years.
SPECTER: Yes.
HEMMER: What's at the gut of this argument? When you look at Condoleezza Rice and what she went through and now what Alberto Gonzales may go through with further debate on the Senate floor?
SPECTER: Well, it's very, very political. It's against a backdrop of a great many issues.
And although we now have 55 Republicans, the Democrats are solidifying their group. And they banded together to give Condoleezza Rice a very tough time in the debate and in the hearings, and to unify against Gonzales.
And you come back to the basic points, Judge Gonzales was acting as the president's lawyer as White House counsel. And he was emphatic that he understood the difference between that role and attorney general when he's the attorney for all of the American people.
But once the politics starts rolling, it's a snowball effect that can't be stopped.
HEMMER: Don't the politics always come back to the issue of Iraq?
SPECTER: Well, that's a very heavy -- that's a very heavy overhang.
It is hoped that the elections which are going to be held will provide some level of encouragement to the people of Iraq to have their self-government. And that's a very heavy overhang. No doubt about it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator, for your time.
There in D.C., Arlen Specter on the Judiciary Committee.
SPECTER: Nice being with you, Bill. HEMMER: Nice to be with you. Thank you.
COSTELLO: Today the world is paying tribute to the more than one million people who died at the Nazi camp at Auschwitz, Poland. World leaders and concentration camp survivors are gathering to mark the 60th anniversary since its liberation.
Taking a live look now at Auschwitz, Poland, and it's so cold there. CNN's Chris burns is live in Auschwitz with more.
And the ceremonies have been delayed just a little bit. Is it because of the weather, Chris?
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it's just snowing like you wouldn't believe it, as you can see right now, and it really is representative of what happened during winters here, where people were struggling with the elements, trying to stay alive, as they waited to be killed by their Nazi masters.
And as you see, the people are gathering here. It is getting close to beginning. In just a few moments, there will be a train pulling in, as trains had pulled in with thousands of these prisoners, most of them Jewish, being pulled in here, separated, sorted out, many of them, most of them sent to be executed, either in the gas chambers or shot.
And we're standing just a few yards away from one of the ovens that would burn the bodies after they were killed. Today, there will be song, there will be prayers, there will be speeches by the presidents of Poland, and Russia and Israel, and there will be statements and accounts by some of the survivors, some of whom we spoke to in the last few days.
There was -- if you just try to get your mind around what happened here, there were between 1.1 and 1.5 million people killed here. There were more than 1,000 survivors who are here right now, just 1,000 survivors, who are trying to take that message saying those 1.1 to 1.5 million people did not die completely in vain. We have to get this message across to fight anti-Semitism, to fight racism, and today also is really -- it marks the day when Soviet troops came here to liberate this camp., around this time, at 2:30 in the afternoon here at Auschwitz.
Now, among others attending here, among the other leaders, is Vice President Dick Cheney. He will be attending, but he won't be speaking at this very place. He spoke a few moments earlier, talking and warning again -- warning against the evils of anti-Semitism and intolerance, and to fight that wherever it is in the world.
Back to you, Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Chris Burns, reporting live from Auschwitz, Poland. And as the ceremonies really get underway, of course CNN will bring part of it to you live -- Bill.
HEMMER: Carol, when Soviet liberators seized Auschwitz 60 years ago today, they found some 7,000 prisoners, some of them barely alive. Several hundred of them were children. One of the survivors is connected to our family here at CNN. CNN's Allan Chernoff today tells us the story of his own mother's story of surviving in Auschwitz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Among the few child survivors of Auschwitz, an 11-year-old girl, Rina Margulis (ph), my mother. She and her mother Hinda (ph) had endured half a year at the death factory. Each day pushed deeper into the hell on earth that was Auschwitz. Eleven years ago, our family visited the camp in Poland. My mother described the last time she saw her 9-year-old brother Romek (ph), the day he was selected to be gassed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he took this piece of bread and threw it here over the fence to my mother and said, you take it. I won't need it anymore. And then he started crying and ran away into the barrack.
CHERNOFF: Shipped in a cattle car from the slave labor camp legion my mom was tattooed upon arrival Prisoner A15647. Her bed was a wooden slat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just filled in straight through. Ten people.
CHERNOFF: Starvation was the daily diet. Chicory-flavored water masquerading as coffee. A sliver of bread and a bowl of watery soup. Sometimes there was a chance to swipe or organize food as the prisoners said. 60 years later, my mother remembers grabbing a cabbage near the kitchen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I looked left and I looked right and no one was around. And I took this cabbage as a birthday gift to my aunt Eva, and this was the best gift I could ever give her. It was worth more than any jewelry or gold or anything.
CHERNOFF: My mother got by as only a child could. Using her imagination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I always told my mother and my aunt what I am going to eat after the war. This was the big pleasure. I always said, I'm going to have for breakfast, 20 loaves of bread and five dozen eggs.
CHERNOFF: Yet every day she was surrounded by death. The crematory of smokestacks towered over the camp, blown up by the Nazis before liberators arrived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fire was coming out all of the time, day and night, and this was crematory where people were burned. And the smell of the flesh was all over the camp.
CHERNOFF: Were you afraid of dying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't think of death. I always figured out this is my last chance, I'm going to tell them, let's put up an uprising and not go in there and let's resist. And this was my plan.
CHERNOFF: By sheer luck, her selection never came. She and her mother survived. Her father, Abraham (ph) was killed trying to escape a death march.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know how I survived it, it's a pure chance. Not that I was in any way different from everybody else.
CHERNOFF: My mother Rina Margulis Chernoff (ph) witness and survivor, survivor of some of the darkest days on this planet, witness to man's inhumanity against man. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Thanks, Allan. Best to you and your family.
Let's get a break. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. Paging the good doctor now, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, about a death-defying journey. A North Carolina man discovered breathing in a body bag after he was declared dead.
Let's get to the CNN center and talk to Sanjay now.
First the story, Sanjay. Give it to us.
Good morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
The story I'm about to tell you is a very rare story. Still it happened. We're talking about Monday night. Larry Green, 29 years old, was walking through a darkened intersection in North Carolina when he was hit by a car. Several teams arrived, including rescue units and EMT teams. They are the first responders on the scene. That was where they found him there in that darkened intersection.
At the scene, they declared him dead. He was subsequently brought to the morgue. His clothes removed, better lighting there. The county coroner, the medical examiner there, Dr. Perdue, a retired surgeon, was examining Mr. Green and found trace amounts of movement in his abdomen suggesting some efforts to breathe.
At that point, he called the hospital back, and said it looks like this man is still alive, take him back to the hospital. He also checked his pulse in the carotid artery, which is here, and the radial artery, which is in the wrist, and the femoral artery, which is in the leg, and he couldn't find any pulses there. Yet based on that trace amount of breathing, he sent the patient back to the hospital.
Now obviously this is a very rare situation. In the olden days, Bill, They would actually bury people with bells. In case they did have an awakening, they could ring the bell, and people would come unearth them. That obviously doesn't happen very much anymore. But there are certain factors which can complicate the pronouncing of someone dead. For example, very cold temperatures. A very cold temperature can make someone's pulse and respirations nearly imperceptible. It was about 30 to 32 degrees that night in North Carolina. Also someone who's significantly obese or overweight, you may have a harder time finding the vital signs.
Again, Bill, a very rare story. Still, it happened. Mr. Green now is in the intensive-care unit in a North Carolina hospital.
HEMMER: Aren't there standards for declaring death of a patient though, Sanjay?
GUPTA: You know, it's interesting, we looked into this quite a bit, there are standards, but they actually vary from state to state. You know, again in the old days, they just put a mirror underneath your nose to see if you were still breathing. Now most people use something called an EKG, electrocardiogram, to try and determine whether or not there's a heart rhythm. If there's a hearty rhythm, obviously the heart is still beating, the patient is not dead. Most states require that you have an EKG actually done before pronouncing someone dead. Some states require a doctor only can pronounce someone dead.
In this situation, it's unclear. We actually called North Carolina state to try and find out whether an EKG was actually used on the scene, could not verify that information one way or the other. Needless to say, though, obviously a man was declared dead that was not -- Bill.
HEMMER: What happens if the coroner did not notice this, or discover this?
GUPTA: Yes, you know, that's a particularly frightening thought. Probably what would have happened is he would have been in a very cool refrigerator, and a very sick man with very weak vital signs already probably have died in the morgue that night and subsequently been picked up by the funeral home the following morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: Is he going to recover in the hospital now, do we know, fully or not?
GUPTA: It's tough to say. You know, he obviously had significant injuries, so significant that his vital signs were hard to find. He's in the intensive care unit. He's going to have a long road to matter what -- Bill.
HEMMER: Indeed. Sanjay, thanks for that. What a story out of North Carolina.
GUPTA: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, would you pay 17 grand for forgiveness? The "Cafferty File" has that, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: All right. Welcome back.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Bernie Ebbers' lawyers trying to convince jurors the former WorldCom CEO didn't know enough about his company to be aware of the biggest fraud in American history. Sure. Andy Serwer's here "Minding Your Business."
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE": Remember, they call that the stupid defense. We're going to explain it because they outlined it a little bit yesterday.
Let's talk about the markets first of all, though, Jack. Stocks up yesterday. You can see 37 points on the Dow. Happening this morning, reports of a big merger between SBC and AT&T. We will wait to see if anything develops on that front. AT&T up in European trading this morning.
Also, durable goods for the year came out just now for 2004. Up 10.9 percent. That's the best showing in a decade. Economy's got some life to it, I guess.
CAFFERTY: Wow. Here's good news.
SERWER: Pretty interesting.
All right, a couple trials to talk about. First of all, the WorldCom thing, as Jack's mentioned. Bernie Ebbers, his attorneys trying to paint him as not being aware enough to really understand, to be able to orchestrate a billion dollar fraud.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
SERWER: And they heard Bernie's voice yesterday, the jurors did. It wasn't him talking. They played a voicemail of him talking, a conference call talking to a Wall Street analyst. The Wall Street analyst asked him, Bernie, when do you think we're going to come out of the recession?
Bernie says, as far as indicators of when we're going to come out of the recession, you know, remember, I'm a P.E. graduate, as in PhysEd, not an economist, so I really don't know if I can speak about that with any credibility to anything. Unquote. Maybe he's got a point, though, Jack, about himself.
CAFFERTY: You know, how much money was lost in the WorldCom collapse?
SERWER: 11. Yes.
CAFFERTY: $11 billion.
SERWER: Fraud, yes. That's a lot of...
CAFFERTY: Unbelievable. Now, the Tyco trial had an unexpected visitor yesterday. SERWER: Yes. The old juror number four. Old juror four. You remember her, Ruth Jordan. She was the one who basically caused the mistrial last year when she allegedly made a hand signal identified by the media, received threatening letters. The judge called the whole thing off.
She shows up at the trial yesterday and she had a couple comments. She goes, you know, Mark smiled at me. Mark being one of the co-defendants, Mark Swartz, chief financial officer of the company. Mark smiled at me. Yes, right. She said, I'm interested. She insisted they're innocent and then she said she's going to come to the trial from time to time, but not every day, because she's says I've got a life. No, you don't. You don't have a life.
CAFFERTY: Wrong.
SERWER: You know, that's why you're there. I think she should be barred.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I do, too.
SERWER: She's a nuisance.
CAFFERTY: She's a distraction.
SERWER: She is.
CAFFERTY: The judge should throw her out.
SERWER: Throw her out.
CAFFERTY: Here's "The File."
PBS has pulled an episode of a kids show that features lesbians. But public TV stations in New York and Boston say they're going to run it, anyway. The show is "Postcards from Buster." It's about an animated bunny that visits a Vermont farm and meets a family headed by two mothers.
President Bush's education secretary Margaret Spelling wrote a letter to PBS, expressing quote, "strong, very serious concerns about this program." She said parents would not want their young children exposed to the lifestyles portrayed in this episode. She also said that's not what Congress intended when they provided funding for PBS.
SERWER: Lesbian bunnies.
CAFFERTY: No, no, no, no. The bunny visits a farm where there are lesbian mothers.
SERWER: Oh, sorry.
COSTELLO: You got that, Andy?
SERWER: Oh, I got it. It's a confusing story.
CAFFERTY: This is the only time "The File" has ever been too deep for anybody to understand.
SERWER: Consider who was saying this.
CAFFERTY: Teachers who can't speak English may soon be barred from classrooms in North Dakota. What a great idea. A state lawmaker is proposing a bill that would allow state university students who complain about their teacher's speaking ability to get a refund of their tuition and fees if the instructor can't speak correct English or is difficult to be understood.
The law would also require instructors to prove their command of English in an interview before they're allowed to go in the classroom and confuse the students. State representative Bette Grandy (ph) says the number one priority of higher education is instructing the students, the paying customer.
And finally, if a dozen roses doesn't get you off the hook, try this. A man whose marriage is on the rocks took out a full-page ad in Tuesday's "Florida Times-Union" newspaper to beg his wife's forgiveness. Cost him $17,000. The ad reads, "Please believe the words in my heart. They're true and from my heart. I can only hope" -- he's not a great writer, but he did have 17 grand to lay out for this thing. "I only hope you'll give me the chance to prove my unending love for you. Life without you is empty and meaningless."
Well, his life is still empty and meaningless, because it's still without her. Mary Ann left the guy two weeks ago. She reportedly has seen the ad, but he hasn't heard a word from her. Sounds like he should have saved the $17,000 to pay the divorce lawyer.
COSTELLO: Well, he should have bought her a diamond. Wouldn't that have said a lot more than mere words?
SERWER: Well, I guess so.
HEMMER: Should have consulted a woman instead of a Web site.
CAFFERTY: He should have been spent the $17,000 on some young chick who doesn't know any better.
HEMMER: Well, you got that option, too, Carol.
COSTELLO: Could be a lot more fun for Larry.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: Larry, you could have had a lot of fun with that money, partner.
HEMMER: Let's get a break, here. We'll get top stories in a moment here, top of the hour, including a look at the preparations that continue in Iraq for elections on Sunday. How can U.S. forces learn from mistakes in the early days of the war? A retired general who led troops into Baghdad will talk about that. He's our guest live, top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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