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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President's New Helicopters to be Made Overseas; Violence Erupts Again During Countdown to Iraqi Elections
Aired January 28, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, bloody Baghdad. Five more Americans killed in combat, another American helicopter has crashed. President Bush declares hatred and radicalism will be defeated in Iraq.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Freedom is on the march, and the world is better for it.
DOBBS: A former coalition adviser, despite that escalating violence, says we should celebrate our achievements in Iraq.
In "Broken Borders" tonight, illegal aliens invading this country by sea, land and air. Federal agents struggling to hunt down almost 100,000 illegal aliens who committed crimes on U.S. soil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've had an opportunity to be heard in court. And the case was decided against them.
DOBBS: Also tonight a special report on illegal aliens using U.S. government I.D. cards to obtain privileges reserved for American citizens. I'll be talking with a leading U.S. senator about her fight with the federal government over the escalating immigration crisis.
And will the Pentagon buy an all-American helicopter fleet for the president of the United States? Or should we import one? We'll have the result of the Pentagon's highly anticipated decision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, January 28. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
There is outrage building tonight after the Pentagon awarded a contract for the new presidential helicopter fleet to a European consortium and not an American company. The European consortium is partnered with Lockheed Morton, but even so, critics say the deal could lead to the loss of thousands of American aerospace jobs.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this is a huge blow for Sikorsky, which has been building the presidential helicopters since the Eisenhower administration. Now Lockheed has the new $1.7 billion contract to build 23 U.S. 101 helicopters and three test aircraft.
And more importantly, it's widely believed the company now has a leg up to win a much more lucrative future contract to build 130 new search and rescue helicopters for the Air Force.
The Pentagon says the selection was based on best value to the government and the overall design.
Now two thirds of the manufacturing of the new helicopters will be done in the United States, but a full one third will be built overseas in the U.K. and Italy. The Pentagon responded to criticism that the Lockheed team does not have enough U.S. domestic content.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN YOUNG, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: Both teams were required with their proposal to submit a certification that there were compliant with the applicable provisions, statutes and regulations, as I said, including buy America provisions. Both teams have done that. And beyond that, it's not a factor in the source selection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: Senator Chris Dodd from Connecticut, where Sikorsky's parent company is based, released a statement today, saying, "Sikorsky should have won this contract hands down. In my view, the United States government should not be outsourcing its security overseas, and that's exactly what this decision does. It's unconscionable that America's chief executive will be flying around in a foreign helicopter," end quote.
Now, Lockheed said they are honored that the Pentagon has placed its trust in the company for this vital mission, and they are committed to meeting the demanding requirements of the U.S. government. Analysts say the Lockheed design may have clinched the contract for the company.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOREN THOMPSON, LEXINGTON INSTITUTE: The long-term trend in presidential transportation is when you buy something new, it's bigger. Air Force One now is much bigger than it used to be. The same thing is happening with the president's helicopter. Lockheed Martin offered three engines instead of two. They offered a more spacious helicopter. They won.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: The first helicopter will be tested in 2008, but the fleet won't be operational until 2009 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, can Sikorsky do anything about this? Can it protest the deal, ask for a review of the Pentagon's decision?
SYLVESTER: Well, the Pentagon will present to Sikorsky its justification material, essentially why they lost this contract. The company will then have a week to review, and then they can file a protest, asking the General Accountability Office to do an independent congressional review. But Lou it's very unlikely that the decision will be overturned -- Lou.
DOBBS: Despite the fact that Lockheed Martin has never built a helicopter in its entire history?
SYLVESTER: This is one of those really interesting things where you had outside pressure, Italy and Britain directly lobbying the White House for this contract. So it's going to be interesting to see how much of the outside influence the foreign government influence played in this final decision, although the Pentagon will say that politics was not a deciding factor, Lou.
DOBBS: No, but it's certainly interesting that the president of the United States would be the, if you will, the prototype passenger for the Lockheed Martin's first venture into building a helicopter.
Thank you very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Turning now to the war in Iraq, five Americans were killed today in a series of insurgent attacks in Baghdad. The attacks were part of an escalating campaign of violence by the insurgents just 48 hours before Iraq's first free elections.
Four of the American soldiers killed in Baghdad today were victims of roadside bombs. The fifth soldier was shot and killed in the city's northern suburbs.
Also today an Army Kiowa helicopter crashed in Baghdad. There is no word on the fate of the two crewmembers.
Jeff Koinange with a report from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And three significant arrests giving a much-needed boost to Iraq's beleaguered government.
Top Iraqi officials announcing that three top lieutenants of the terror mastermind, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, have been arrested. One of them is said to be the head of Zarqawi's operations in Baghdad.
Even as two car bombs within minutes of each other rocked this battered capital. This one exploded outside a police station, killing four and wounding several others. A short while later, and a few hundred dollars meters away, another suicide car bomber slammed his vehicle into a blast wall outside a school that's been designated as a polling center, detonating himself. No one was killed in this incident.
In neighboring Iran, Iraq's largest population outside the country is expected to vote in numbers. Many here are Shias, long suppressed by years of Saddam's rule. Some here are hoping Sunday's poll proves a turning point. "We have come today to vote for a future of Iraq, aimed at having an Islamic republic," she says.
Back in Iraq, it's a different story, at least on paper. The Independent Electoral Commission says just under 13 million Iraqis have registered to vote, and it expects a high turnout.
But just how many local voters will eventually turn out is still questionable, especially as polls centers like these two schools targeted late Thursday in Baghdad continue to be attacked.
(on camera) Some families living near schools have left home to stay with relatives in case there's violence on polling day, while others are stocking up on food because of the extended curfew, the heightened security and the overall uncertainty.
Jeff Koinange, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: American troops have launched a massive security operation in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Thousands of American and Iraqi troops are patrolling the city now, trying to prevent insurgents from disrupting those elections.
ITN's Neal Connery reports from Mosul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEAL CONNERY, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mosul feels like a ghost town. Its streets are all but deserted. All traffic has been banned over this election weekend as part of the security crackdown.
We spent the day with American troops as they made their last- minute checks on voting centers in Iraq's third city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you should look at your preparations. If you can kind of explain them to me, I'd appreciate it.
CONNERY: But this is no normal election. The sound of nearby gunfire interrupts the inspection, a stark reminder of the dangers never far away.
Iraqi forces will be on the frontline of security at polling stations on Sunday. They know their role is vital if the elections are to be a success.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not green soldiers. They're battle- hardened. I've gone around. I've inspected them just like I would my own soldiers, looked at their plans, looked at their preparations, and it's solid.
CONNERY: Any driver found breaking the traffic curfew is treated as suspicious. Suicide bombers have claimed a heavy toll there.
But American and Iraqi forces believe they've done everything they can to make these elections safe.
Neal Connery, ITV News, Mosul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: More than a quarter of a million Iraqis living in this country and around the world have already begun voting in the Iraqi election. In this country, Iraqis are voting in five metropolitan areas, including Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, Washington and Nashville.
Thelma Gutierrez records from a polling place in El Toro, California, just outside Los Angeles -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Lou.
Well, this polling site is going to remain open for the next two hours, and at last count, 400 people had already cast their ballots today.
Now, it seems like a small number, but organizers say they're not that concerned. They feel that it's Friday. Many people work. They expect those numbers to pick up over the weekend.
Thirty-eight hundred people are actually registered to vote here at this site over the next few days. Now, this is the only polling place on the west coast. The place closest to this is actually Nashville, Tennessee, so we've talked to people who've come from Oregon, from Washington, from as far away as Utah who say they made the sacrifice to be able to have a chance to take part in history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My family lives still in Baghdad, so this is for them, too, and it's a privilege actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a voice for the people that have left and the people that are minorities that are still there. As Christians and Assyrians and Chaldeans all over the world, we're giving a vote for them back home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vote represent liberty and freedom for all Iraqis. We have waited for centuries for liberty and freedom.
GUTIERREZ: Now they came in small groups, they came in entire families. People had ink-stained fingers. They were holding them up very proudly, telling us that this was the moment that they had waited for all of their lives -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thelma, thank you very much.
Here on CNN, we'll have extensive coverage of those Iraqi elections throughout the weekend.
Beginning tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, we'll have a two-hour special report, "Iraq Votes," anchored tonight by Anderson Cooper and Christiane Amanpour in Baghdad, Paula Zahn in New York and Aaron Brown in Dearborn, Michigan.
We'll have live and complete coverage of the Iraqi elections tomorrow and Sunday as well, of course. There will be a three-hour special edition of our broadcast Sunday. It begins at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Sunday, 1:00 p.m. Pacific.
Well, still ahead here, "Hot Pursuit." Federal agents on the hunt for illegal aliens at large on American soil and convicted of crimes in this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL MONICO, ICE DEPORTATION SUPERVISOR: He's been arrested on several charges, including up to assault and battery, domestic violence. He does have a history of violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Tonight, I'll be talking about the immigration crisis with a leading U.S. senator who says the federal government is responsible for the invasion of illegal aliens into this country and should be paying state governments.
"A Soldier's Struggle" tonight. A wounded veteran of the war in Iraq, she supports the global war on terror, but has some harsh words for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
All of that and more coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Thirty-two illegal aliens were discovered on a small piece of land off the coast of Miami today. Coast Guard boats picked up the illegals and brought them to the mainland where they are now being interviewed by the Border Patrol.
A spokesman for the Border Patrol said they claim to be from Cuba. It is not yet known how they were left there or if they were brought into this country by smugglers.
An estimated 100,000 illegal aliens in this country have been convicted of crimes committed in this country, other than their illegal status, of course, yet most of them remain at large. Special Immigration and Customs Enforcement teams are now trying to hunt down those illegal aliens one by one.
Dan Lothian reports from Brockton, Massachusetts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the trail of convicted illegal immigrants, federal agents with the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement unit, or ICE, are getting ready to move in on a Dominican national in Fall River, Massachusetts. They say he served time for his crime, but is in this country illegally and is avoiding deportation. MONICO: He's been arrested on several charges, including up to assault and battery, domestic violence. He does have a history of violence.
LOTHIAN: Long before the sun rises...
MONICO: Jim, do you want to come up on the other side? Far right.
LOTHIAN: Daniel Monico, Jim Martin and the rest of the ICE unit plod through fresh snow and find their target on the second floor of this apartment building.
JIM MARTIN, ICE DEPUTY FIELD OFFICER: He came out to us, and he saw us. Again, we identified ourselves to him.
LOTHIAN (on camera): What was his reaction?
MARTIN: A little surprised.
LOTHIAN (voice-over): An hour later, a Cape Verdean man in the U.S. illegally, agents say, is cornered in the City of Brockton as he walks down the sidewalk. His crime?
MONICO: The initial charge was rape of a child and, again, for whatever reason, it was plea bargained down, but it was a conviction.
LOTHIAN: Just two of more than 100 illegal fugitives in this pile the Boston office is hunting. Nationally, it's estimated 80,000 to 100,000 convicted illegal immigrants are out there.
MARC RAMONDI, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: People who show repeat offenses, multiple charges against them, multiple convictions. We prioritize our removal proceedings by going after the worst of the worst, and, once we do, we do that with the aim of protecting national security and public safety.
LOTHIAN (on camera): There are 18 of these teams hunting down fugitives across the country, using the element of surprise to put them in handcuffs, then sending them of the country in anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of months.
(voice-over): The heat was turned up after 9/11. Even though there's no evidence that anyone on the ICE unit's list is a terrorist...
RAMONDI: They're going to go get them.
MONICO: We're going to go get them.
LOTHIAN ... the effort, say Martin and Monaco, is critical in protecting America's borders.
MARTIN: These people have disregarded their orders to leave the country. They've had an opportunity to be heard in court, and the case was decided against them. So we're pursuing those folks that are just not complying with those orders.
LOTHIAN: Even as the department seeks more funding and more personnel to keep these units in hot pursuit.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Brockton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Later here, Senator Dianne Feinstein will join me. She's proposed new legislation intended to hold the federal government responsible for the immigration crisis in this country -- at least part of it. Senator Feinstein will be our guest.
Some states in this country are allowing illegal aliens now to use a government identification number to obtain driver's licenses, voter identification cards and even home loans. These identification cards were created for use only by the Internal Revenue Service. Now some states are using those cards as a way to grant illegal aliens the benefits of U.S. citizenship.
Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. This is Corrine (ph). How can I help you?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here in Milwaukee, Mitchell Bank is one of several Wisconsin banks where illegal aliens can get mortgages.
All it takes is an individual taxpayer identification number, an ITIN, given out by the Internal Revenue Service. That number is meant to collect income taxes from people without Social Security numbers.
But Wisconsin's Housing Authority is going a step further, letting illegal aliens use the number to get a mortgage. They say they're just serving a growing market.
RAYMOND HILEY (ph), WHEDA: We can stick our heads in the sand and pretend that they don't exist. They are here. They're living amongst us. They're earning over $80 billion in income. They are here. They can be here with assets, or they can be here on the public dole and a drain on our system.
ROMANS: Critics say the program rewards law breakers.
GLENN GROTHMAN, WISCONSIN STATE SENATE: It just makes a mockery of our laws, and it is an insult not only to American citizens, but it's an insult to the employees of our immigration service, and it's an insult to anybody who appears foolishly to try to wait patiently in line to come into this country legally.
ROMANS: The program is recognized by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago who says most banks understand that illegal aliens are in a "peculiar position." Still, the IRS position is clear. The ITIN is to be used for tax purposes only. The IRS has issued at least seven million ITIN numbers since 1996. It was so nervous about abuse of the numbers, it's warned governors and state motor vehicle departments that ITINs were not designed to serve as personal identification and should not be used for driver's licenses.
Still, across this country, illegal aliens are using these cards, and at least five states are accepting them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: So are several federal agencies as well, Lou. In Wisconsin's case, the Housing Authority vigorously defends its mortgage program. It says it's keeping American dollars in this country by not being sent to Mexico, and it's saying it's actually helping rebuild some downtrodden neighborhoods.
DOBBS: I'm all but speechless. The moronic posturing by people on this immigration crisis is just -- it's stunning. The mentality. I mean, how do you explain people sitting there in the Housing Authority basically postulating as if they were holding forth for a national policy and just ignoring a set of rules and laws and regulations that have been on the books for years.
ROMANS: Well, Lou, the press officer for WHEDA, the Wisconsin Housing Authority, told me he's as illegal as illegal aliens because when he was 7, he stole with his brother a candy bar. He broke a law. He's illegal. That's equivalent to this. He thinks that it's a reality, that there are 10 million illegal aliens in this country. It's a market that needs to be served.
DOBBS: And that's the kind of mentality that we're dealing with. Hard-working people in this country, many of them immigrants -- legal immigrants -- having to deal with this, and a government that is just seeing fit at the state and federal level to ignore the law and the wellbeing of the country.
Christine, thank you, for the report.
Christine Romans.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question is: Do you believe state governments should allow illegal aliens to use a government identification number to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We wouldn't blame you if you added a few comments in point of fact with that vote.
Also ahead here, "A Soldier's Struggle." One young sergeant's remarkable resolve.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I were there, I'd be telling my soldiers, you know, be behind this 100 percent because this is our job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: We'll have her inspiring story in "Heroes" tonight.
A bold new effort to hold the federal government responsible for the immigration crisis that it's created in this country. Senator Dianne Feinstein leading the effort. She's our guest coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Senator Dianne Feinstein will be here in just a moment. We'll be talking about why she says illegal immigration is a federal responsibility and should be reinforcing the states for the economic burden that falls upon them.
But, first, these stories.
Two of the world's largest makers of household goods joining forces. Proctor and Gamble today buying Gillette, a $57 billion stock deal.
The arraignment of Juan Alvarez has been postponed for a second day. Alvarez is the man charged with murder in Wednesday's train crash in Los Angeles in which 11 people were killed. Alvarez is now undergoing further medical evaluation.
NASA could return to space as early as the month of May. An independent panel overseeing the return to flight says NASA's progress has astronauts gearing up for a launch in late spring. The shuttle fleet has been grounded since the Columbia broke apart over Texas in February of 2003.
Senator Dianne Feinstein has proposed legislation that would reimburse state governments for some of the $13 billion they're estimated to be spending on the incarceration of illegal aliens. Feinstein's proposal would raise federal funding of reimbursement programs to about $1 billion.
I talked with the senator earlier and asked her if she believes this legislation is a meaningful step toward the federal government finally taking responsibility for the crisis it's created, allowing it to address the critical issues of border security, national security and the social, political and economic impact of our immigration crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think so. Most people I hear come on your show and say, you know, the immigration system is broken, and that's true, but it's tough duty to fix it, and it takes very strong people to recognize that what happens is, in any given area, you have an infrastructure problem. Your hospitals, your schools, your workplace, your housing can only absorb so many people at a given time. And, therefore, if you just have a flood of people coming in, it's very difficult. It's one of the things that I think creates a backlash and that we -- those of us that value this nation as the Statue of Liberty says have to have an orderly system, a legal system by which we do it.
DOBBS: And I know that you believe strongly that -- both as a matter of national security, national interests, that border security is essential, in all aspects.
FEINSTEIN: Yes. Border security really is essential because, if you have open, porous borders, you can be absolutely sure that terrorists are going to take advantage of them and may have already.
DOBBS: Senator, I have to ask you this because you're one of the most respected senators in Washington, D.C. I...
FEINSTEIN: I don't know about that.
DOBBS: Well, you definitely are, and the fact is I have to believe you're already being criticized and hearing from the open borders lobby, and that, by the way, canvasses across the whole political spectrum in this country for a number of reasons. Are you feeling some pressure from that lobby right now?
FEINSTEIN: Oh, yes. I think it's a very strong lobby, and I think there is a real push toward open borders. Having said that, I don't believe it's supported by a majority of people. I don't even believe it's supported by a majority of the legal immigration community, who says, look, we did it legally, why shouldn't everybody else, and...
DOBBS: Senator, I'll tell you our audience made up of many legal immigrants and many Hispanics. There's no confusion in their minds at all about this issue, and it's precisely as you describe.
FEINSTEIN: Yes, I think that's right, and I think -- you know, in California, we passed Proposition 187, which was really -- it was found to be unconstitutional. I opposed it at the time. There's a lot of worry that somebody's going to put something similar back on the ballot and that it would pass again.
And so I -- I think, as we approach these matters, we really have to be practical, we have to understand and take care of people who are here legally, and there may be some reason -- and I happen to believe there is -- that there are many people who have been here 15, 20 years, a long time...
DOBBS: Right.
FEINSTEIN: ... many of whom missed the earlier amnesty. They are legal. They are law-abiding. They work. They own their homes. They pay taxes. I think there...
DOBBS: It's a different... FEINSTEIN: There should be the ability to adjust their status, and, of course, in the law, there are up to 4,000 a year, and that isn't used...
DOBBS: And...
FEINSTEIN: ... which is interesting.
DOBBS: And it's also interesting, Senator, the people who just simply don't want to deal with the fact that illegal is illegal, that the federal government is not meeting its requirements and safeguarding our borders and are providing for support for, as you point out, and as you're trying to address, incarceration of illegal aliens.
FEINSTEIN: Yes.
DOBBS: Senator, as always, we thank you very much for being here. And it's great talking with you. And we wish you a lot of luck.
FEINSTEIN: Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Senator Dianne Feinstein.
Turning now to the war in Iraq, Sgt. Carla Best was wounded in Iraq and has undergone multiple surgeries over just the past few months. Sgt. Best is critical of some of the Bush administration's decisions in this war, but she has never questioned her dedication to the mission.
Dana Bash has her story from Virginia Beach, Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You remember this one? We're going to start with the left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then step down?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sgt. Carla Best is here five days a week, determined to walk again. A roadside attack on a mission in Iraq left her knee completely destroyed. She's in constant pain, still much better than she was at Walter Reed Hospital in November when the commander in chief dropped in.
SGT. CARLA BEST, U.S. ARMY: He gave me a coin. And I almost cried, because I'm a big coin collector. You know, in the military, they give coins, and it's a big deal. And when I got a coin from the president, that's the highest you can go.
BASH (voice-over): Sgt. Best recalls the president as compassionate, telling her to be strong. But in his private visit, she noticed he was careful not to ask questions he may not want answers to.
(on camera): Did he say, do you have the equipment you need?
BEST: No, he didn't ask anything about that, because I probably would have got political on him. It was a civilian van that I got hurt in. And had I been in a Humvee, I probably wouldn't be in the position that I'm in.
BASH (voice-over): Sgt. Best does not know why she was sent into the Iraqi night in an unarmored van. She will always know the sound of the explosion.
BEST: And I was just like, "OK, this is it." And, I don't know, it was almost like, "OK, I'm going to die right here in Iraq in the middle of some Iraqi road."
BASH: By chance, she was MedEvaced where her brother, also in Iraq, was based. He held her hand.
ANTHONY EBELING, CARLA'S BROTHER: I do remember her in a lot of pain. And it was hard, because I couldn't do anything for her. So you're staring at -- she's my older sister, and she wasn't -- you know, she wasn't supposed to get hurt.
BEST: If I were there, I'd be telling my soldiers, you know, be behind this 100 percent, because this is our job.
BASH: Fifteen surgeries later, the sergeant supports the mission but questions the war plan.
BEST: Just too much eagerness to get in there into Iraq, but now there's these insurgents around that are just knocking us on our asses.
BASH: She's not shy about her disdain for the defense secretary.
BEST: When that soldier got up and straight up asked him about the up-armored vehicles, and his answer, that smug answer that he gave?
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: As you know, you go to war with the army you have.
BEST: I have a coin from Donald Rumsfeld, and at that moment, I started cursing. And I said, "I wish I could give this coin back to that man."
BASH: Back in the hospital, an optimistic president promised her knee would be fixed. She knew that wouldn't happen. Now her parents want people to realize that she's just one of over 10,000 wounded in Iraq, and care giving takes a toll.
VICKIE EBELING, CARLA'S MOTHER: You give up your job, and you don't even think twice about doing it, but then the bills come in.
BASH: The daughter remains idealistic. BEST: I wish that younger people would get out and vote and think about the impact. Because there's people in Iraq right now that the only way they can get out and vote is if another country comes in and stands guard for them.
BASH: And, despite her doubts, after all she's been through, she has to believe the war is winnable.
BEST: God, I hope so. I don't want my injury to be for nothing.
BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, Virginia Beach, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, a former coalition adviser who says there is reason to celebrate the U.S. achievements in Iraq. He says the elections will be a success. He's our guest, next.
And in "Heroes," a former marine who has been recognized multiple times for bravery in Iraq. We'll have his incredible story, another "Hero," next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest says the United States should celebrate the upcoming Iraqi elections, and points out that, unlike the European Union, the United States has actually done something to bring liberty to those who have suffered under tyrannical regimes.
Michael Rubin is a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, also a former adviser to the Coalition Provisional Authority.
Good to have you with us.
MICHAEL RUBIN, SCHOLAR, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Straight up, the question has to be, will these elections be a success and by what measure?
RUBIN: I very much think so. If we're looking at turnout, that's the wrong factor to be looking at. After we have these elections, there's going to be a coalition government. The very fact that, in the Middle East, in the Arab world, you have a coalition government where people have to compromise with each other, where no one is able to impose their will, that in itself is a measure of success.
The only legitimacy is the legitimacy the Iraqis see, and we'll know that in 11 months when they have the referendum on the constitution which has been written.
DOBBS: You say turnout is not a critical measure of the success. What are, in your judgment, the likelihood that we're going to see Sunni participation, that we will not see the Shia, the predominant vast majority of the Iraqi population, just overwhelmingly win power? RUBIN: Well, I think the Shia list, the so-called United Iraqi Alliance, will win at least 40, 45 percent of the vote, but what's often forgotten is it's not an exclusively Shia list. There's 30 Sunni politicians on it. The Kurds are going to be a major factor. And then many Sunnis are real factors. Ghazi Yaouar, the current president, the whole province of Diala, where Baqubah, once a Sunni triangle town, they're ready to vote. I think we're going to be surprised, pleasantly.
DOBBS: Well, and certainly I think everyone would be delighted to be pleasantly surprised. A couple things, Michael, as you look at this and having advised the authority, within the last two weeks, the United States military and the Iraqi government announcing they're closing the borders of Iraq.
And after all that has been gone on with the insurgency, it seems mind-boggling that that hadn't already been done, at least to the extent that it could be done. And secondly, what is the view, the role, and perhaps the threat of Iran in these elections and post- election?
RUBIN: Well, to the first question, I can't agree with you more. We did let the ball drop when it came to border security, no question, no argument. Now, when it comes to Iran, the one issue which the Americans most underestimated was the psychological impact which formal occupation would have on the Iraqis.
The one issue the Iranians most underestimated was the force of Iraqi nationalism. Just because the majority of Iraqi are Shia doesn't mean that they're pro-Iranian. And, in fact, we know this from history, because, during the Iran-Iraq war, you didn't see 60 percent of the country pick up and move to Iran.
DOBBS: And a sizable percentage of the country, about 15 percent Kurdish to the north, their likely role in Iraq's immediate future?
RUBIN: In many ways, they're going to be what makes the coalition. I wouldn't be surprised. If no one wins a majority, they're going to have to come together.
I'll put my neck on the line right now. The Shia list, the United Iraqi Alliance, are going to get 40 to 45 percent. The Kurds are going to get 25 percent. Iyad Allawi, the interim prime minister, will get 10 percent, and the rest will be evenly divided.
The Kurds, I think, are going to take the presidency. The Shia are going to take the prime ministership. And the key ministry, which people are going to fight over, is the interior ministry, because the issue in this campaign inside Iraq is security. That's not surprising. And so the interior minister decides the police policy. That's where the key discussions are going to be.
DOBBS: And in your judgment, Michael Rubin, a success comes Sunday?
RUBIN: Hopefully. Thank you. DOBBS: Thank you for being here. Appreciate it.
RUBIN: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question: Do you believe state governments should be allowing illegal aliens to use government identification numbers to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens?
Please vote yes or no at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up in the broadcast.
Next, three of this country's very best political journalists join me.
And our "Hero" this week, who earned two purple hearts, two bronze stars for bravery in Iraq. Now, this staff sergeant is fighting to honor his fallen comrade. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the country's top political journalists. In Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine, Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report," here in New York, Ron Brownstein of "Los Angeles Times".
Ron -- I can't believe it, the Pentagon has decided to outsource presidential helicopters. What do you make of it?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, some symbols are big enough that you really don't want to be stepping in waters like that. And this probably is something that's going to cause them a lot of headaches, whatever marginal value they might see in the contract. The political headaches and the symbolism, I think, to American workers is something that they're going to probably regret.
DOBBS: Roger, you know, Lockheed Martin has never built a helicopter. Don't you think it's kind of strange to be experimenting with the president of the United States is the designated passenger?
ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": It's ridiculous. I mean, all lives are precious, but some lives are more to be guarded than others. And the life of the president is number one on that list.
And also, as Ron correctly just pointed out, some symbols are important. This would be like Air Force One being purchased from Airbus. It just doesn't make any sense. They couldn't have saved enough money to make this worth it.
DOBBS: Well, speaking of Airbus and outsourcing Marine One, the president's helicopter, Karen, the trade deficit exploding in the fourth quarter, dragging down economic growth by 1.7 percentage points on GDP. It would have been 4.8 percent, almost 5 percent, without the fact that we are continuing to go absolutely mad in this country with imports. What do you think? Is that a political story yet? KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: You know, Lou, it's interesting. It is getting to be and very, very quickly. I've been really surprised recently. Democrats and Republicans, but primarily Democrats, have always seen, you know, the current accounts deficit as sort of a very esoteric kind of issue.
But I've got tell you. I'm hearing politicians talking about it a lot these days as sort of a trapdoor for the economy. They're talking about it the way we heard them talking about jobs last year.
DOBBS: And those jobs, indeed, still being outsourced, the trade deficit continuing to widen, the dollar now plummeting. Treasury Secretary John Snow saying, "There's great commitment on the part of this administration to lower the deficits." New records in terms of the federal budget deficit, new records in the trade deficit, the dollar is plummeting to new lows.
BROWNSTEIN: You know, in a way, Lou...
DOBBS: Can we stand any more such commitment?
BROWNSTEIN: In a way, with the Democrats in such a weak position in both the House and the Senate, lacking the votes to move any of their agenda, the currency market is in effect becoming the opposition party to the Bush administration. James Carville famously said in the first Clinton term that he wished he could die and come back as the bond market.
Well, right now, the international currency traders who are expressing their skepticism about American economic policies through the pressure on the dollar really are the most effective source of opposition to the Bush economic agenda that there is out there.
DOBBS: Roger, chutzpa abroad, if you will. A top Chinese economist saying that the Chinese government has lost faith in the dollar, although they continue to accept our dollar -- and I guess we should be grateful for that -- at record levels. And the Mexican interior minister saying that the United States should not hold forth on internal Mexican affairs, when almost 30 Americans have been abducted for ransom along the border.
Is there any point at which the United States government awakens and says, "Yes, this is still a nation state." Or are we just simply to wave and let it all pass us by?
SIMON: Well, they say you know you're at the head of the pack when everyone is biting you on the behind, Lou, so maybe this is just an example of how American power continues.
But some of it is outrageous. I mean, China really couldn't be that concerned about American debt. They keep buying American debt. And you're right -- you were making a joke, but you're right. We're going to be in trouble when foreign countries stop buying U.S. bonds, which is how we financed this whole effort.
DOBBS: Well, we've got troubles to consider. You know, it's a wonderful life in this country, but the fact is, Karen, Senator Kennedy has again reiterated his call to get U.S. troops out of Iraq, to move on. We've got the elections coming up.
We just heard Michael Rubin, a person I respect greatly in terms of his views on Iraq and Iran, say that he thinks this is going to be a success. What's at stake here politically? What do you think the prospects for success are, Karen?
TUMULTY: Well, at this point, I think that, after these elections are over, and we're all hoping that they go well, that Senator Kennedy is not going to be the only person in the Senate, and certainly there are already people in the House as well, demanding an exit strategy.
I think that that is the place where the political debate is going to go naturally once the elections are over with. And certainly the signs right now aren't terribly good. Going into the election, violence, despite the capture of some of the top insurgents, is up, not down.
DOBBS: I want each of you to weigh on this, if you would. And, Ron, please be first on this.
This president is coming forth with his agenda. He's talking this week about knowing how to build a team, set an agenda, and get it done. His party -- there are giant fissures built around Social Security reform. His immigration proposals which look, frankly, to be DOA, when people, I think, a year ago would have said this is a no- brainer for him. He's running into resistance on nearly every major initiative.
BROWNSTEIN: He is. And it's really striking, Lou. Because I think that -- by and large, the Republicans have made a very different calculation than the Democrats did when Bill Clinton was in power. And when Clinton was in power, the congressional Democrats went their own way, voted all the time in the way they thought it would be best for them at home. And sort of the whole enterprise fell apart. Republicans have shown remarkable willingness to stick together behind President Bush in the thought that it helps all of them.
You're seeing that break down now, surprisingly even more in the House and the Senate. The House has been sort of the vanguard of the Bush revolution, but now, especially on Social Security and immigration -- immigration they're saying they want to do law enforcement first, and they're not really optimistic or enthusiastic about his efforts toward legalization.
And then on Social Security, you're seeing the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Bill Thomas, saying let's do something much more fundamental than Bush is talking about, maybe even go toward replacing the payroll tax.
TUMULTY: Although, Ron, this is sort of the political physics of the second term of a presidency, as well. I mean, the fact is that it is no -- the top goal for Republicans right now in Congress is no longer the reelection of the president. It is, in fact, saving their own skins.
And so their interests -- it was definitely true that their interests were going to depart from his in a second term. What's surprising is how quickly it's happened. And it does suggest that President Bush has got to get action very, very quickly on these big- ticket items like Social Security or any chance he has at all of getting them is gone.
DOBBS: I'm sorry, Karen. Roger, you get the last word, a quick word, if you would.
SIMON: The members of Congress on the Republican side are very well aware that George Bush wants Social Security to be his domestic legacy to the nation. And as Karen has said, that's not their concern. They have to get reelected in two years. They do not want this albatross hung around their necks. I think he's going to have real trouble passing it.
DOBBS: And I think, as each of you is really pointing out here, in the House in particular and even the Senate, people are starting to see those polls showing how the American people that have not always been represented in the middle are feeling about immigration, Social Security, and taxes, as well.
Ron, thank you very much.
Karen, Roger, thank you. We appreciate it, as always. Thanks for your insights.
Still ahead here, "Heroes." A former marine and soldier who earned two purple hearts, two bronze stars for bravery in Iraq, his story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve and defend this country.
Tonight, the remarkable story of Staff Sergeant Dennis Griffee. He has served as both a marine and a soldier. He's earned two purple hearts and two bronze stars. He had planned on a long career in the military, before an attack during his tour in Iraq changed everything. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAFF SGT. DENNIS GRIFFEE, U.S. ARMY: There you go.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Staff Sgt. Dennis Griffee is learning a new set of skills.
GRIFFEE: You going to go again?
WIAN: He's been awarded two purple hearts and two bronze stars for his bravery in Iraq. Now he's fighting for sole custody of his daughter, Justice. GRIFFEE: She's my new little battle buddy now. And I think she helps me more than I help her, honestly.
WIAN: Justice was born while Griffee was in Iraq. The mission inspired her name, but he almost didn't make it back to be her dad. Griffee was on a routine night patrol near Taji when an explosion rocked his Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
GRIFFEE: I remember thinking, "No, God, not like this," you know? And it felt like I was literally being torn in every direction, ripped apart, just cell-by-cell, just excruciating pain.
WIAN: The force threw the Bradley into the air, then crashing to the ground. Griffee checked for casualties. His gunner was injured but OK, but his driver didn't respond. The Bradley then became engulfed in flames. Griffee attempted a rescue, but it was impossible. As the Bradley burned, Griffee realized his own pain.
GRIFFEE: The adrenalin started wearing off, and my back just knotted up, I mean, excruciating pain.
WIAN: Griffee had broken a vertebrae in his back, but it would be months before he would get reconstructive surgery back in the United States. Meanwhile, he fought on to honor his fallen driver.
GRIFFEE: Nobody could figure out how we lived through it, you know? Everybody agreed that we should have been all killed. And then you have to deal with the questions of, why am I still here? And why did it, you know, why did my driver die?
WIAN: More than a year later, Griffee still struggles with pain and nightmares. He'll be medically discharged from the military soon and plans to go to college.
Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll have the results of tonight's poll and a preview of what's ahead this Sunday during our special three- hour edition of this broadcast on the Iraqi elections. CNN, committed to coverage from now through this evening and the weekend on those Iraqi elections coming up Sunday. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll overwhelming: 95 percent of you say state governments should not allow illegal aliens to use a government identification number to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens. It turns out that that is also the regulations that are on the book and the laws -- the law, whatever relevance that has to immigration policy in this country right now.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us Sunday here for our three-hour special edition as we cover the Iraqi elections throughout the weekend on CNN. Our coverage begins at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Sunday. Please join us. Our guests include two leading members of the Armed Services Committee and the general who ran the massive reconstruction effort in Iraq.
For all of us here, good night from New York. Have a pleasant weekend. "CNN's SPECIAL REPORT: IRAQ VOTES" is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 28, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, bloody Baghdad. Five more Americans killed in combat, another American helicopter has crashed. President Bush declares hatred and radicalism will be defeated in Iraq.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Freedom is on the march, and the world is better for it.
DOBBS: A former coalition adviser, despite that escalating violence, says we should celebrate our achievements in Iraq.
In "Broken Borders" tonight, illegal aliens invading this country by sea, land and air. Federal agents struggling to hunt down almost 100,000 illegal aliens who committed crimes on U.S. soil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've had an opportunity to be heard in court. And the case was decided against them.
DOBBS: Also tonight a special report on illegal aliens using U.S. government I.D. cards to obtain privileges reserved for American citizens. I'll be talking with a leading U.S. senator about her fight with the federal government over the escalating immigration crisis.
And will the Pentagon buy an all-American helicopter fleet for the president of the United States? Or should we import one? We'll have the result of the Pentagon's highly anticipated decision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, January 28. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
There is outrage building tonight after the Pentagon awarded a contract for the new presidential helicopter fleet to a European consortium and not an American company. The European consortium is partnered with Lockheed Morton, but even so, critics say the deal could lead to the loss of thousands of American aerospace jobs.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this is a huge blow for Sikorsky, which has been building the presidential helicopters since the Eisenhower administration. Now Lockheed has the new $1.7 billion contract to build 23 U.S. 101 helicopters and three test aircraft.
And more importantly, it's widely believed the company now has a leg up to win a much more lucrative future contract to build 130 new search and rescue helicopters for the Air Force.
The Pentagon says the selection was based on best value to the government and the overall design.
Now two thirds of the manufacturing of the new helicopters will be done in the United States, but a full one third will be built overseas in the U.K. and Italy. The Pentagon responded to criticism that the Lockheed team does not have enough U.S. domestic content.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN YOUNG, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: Both teams were required with their proposal to submit a certification that there were compliant with the applicable provisions, statutes and regulations, as I said, including buy America provisions. Both teams have done that. And beyond that, it's not a factor in the source selection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: Senator Chris Dodd from Connecticut, where Sikorsky's parent company is based, released a statement today, saying, "Sikorsky should have won this contract hands down. In my view, the United States government should not be outsourcing its security overseas, and that's exactly what this decision does. It's unconscionable that America's chief executive will be flying around in a foreign helicopter," end quote.
Now, Lockheed said they are honored that the Pentagon has placed its trust in the company for this vital mission, and they are committed to meeting the demanding requirements of the U.S. government. Analysts say the Lockheed design may have clinched the contract for the company.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOREN THOMPSON, LEXINGTON INSTITUTE: The long-term trend in presidential transportation is when you buy something new, it's bigger. Air Force One now is much bigger than it used to be. The same thing is happening with the president's helicopter. Lockheed Martin offered three engines instead of two. They offered a more spacious helicopter. They won.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: The first helicopter will be tested in 2008, but the fleet won't be operational until 2009 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, can Sikorsky do anything about this? Can it protest the deal, ask for a review of the Pentagon's decision?
SYLVESTER: Well, the Pentagon will present to Sikorsky its justification material, essentially why they lost this contract. The company will then have a week to review, and then they can file a protest, asking the General Accountability Office to do an independent congressional review. But Lou it's very unlikely that the decision will be overturned -- Lou.
DOBBS: Despite the fact that Lockheed Martin has never built a helicopter in its entire history?
SYLVESTER: This is one of those really interesting things where you had outside pressure, Italy and Britain directly lobbying the White House for this contract. So it's going to be interesting to see how much of the outside influence the foreign government influence played in this final decision, although the Pentagon will say that politics was not a deciding factor, Lou.
DOBBS: No, but it's certainly interesting that the president of the United States would be the, if you will, the prototype passenger for the Lockheed Martin's first venture into building a helicopter.
Thank you very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Turning now to the war in Iraq, five Americans were killed today in a series of insurgent attacks in Baghdad. The attacks were part of an escalating campaign of violence by the insurgents just 48 hours before Iraq's first free elections.
Four of the American soldiers killed in Baghdad today were victims of roadside bombs. The fifth soldier was shot and killed in the city's northern suburbs.
Also today an Army Kiowa helicopter crashed in Baghdad. There is no word on the fate of the two crewmembers.
Jeff Koinange with a report from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And three significant arrests giving a much-needed boost to Iraq's beleaguered government.
Top Iraqi officials announcing that three top lieutenants of the terror mastermind, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, have been arrested. One of them is said to be the head of Zarqawi's operations in Baghdad.
Even as two car bombs within minutes of each other rocked this battered capital. This one exploded outside a police station, killing four and wounding several others. A short while later, and a few hundred dollars meters away, another suicide car bomber slammed his vehicle into a blast wall outside a school that's been designated as a polling center, detonating himself. No one was killed in this incident.
In neighboring Iran, Iraq's largest population outside the country is expected to vote in numbers. Many here are Shias, long suppressed by years of Saddam's rule. Some here are hoping Sunday's poll proves a turning point. "We have come today to vote for a future of Iraq, aimed at having an Islamic republic," she says.
Back in Iraq, it's a different story, at least on paper. The Independent Electoral Commission says just under 13 million Iraqis have registered to vote, and it expects a high turnout.
But just how many local voters will eventually turn out is still questionable, especially as polls centers like these two schools targeted late Thursday in Baghdad continue to be attacked.
(on camera) Some families living near schools have left home to stay with relatives in case there's violence on polling day, while others are stocking up on food because of the extended curfew, the heightened security and the overall uncertainty.
Jeff Koinange, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: American troops have launched a massive security operation in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Thousands of American and Iraqi troops are patrolling the city now, trying to prevent insurgents from disrupting those elections.
ITN's Neal Connery reports from Mosul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEAL CONNERY, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mosul feels like a ghost town. Its streets are all but deserted. All traffic has been banned over this election weekend as part of the security crackdown.
We spent the day with American troops as they made their last- minute checks on voting centers in Iraq's third city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you should look at your preparations. If you can kind of explain them to me, I'd appreciate it.
CONNERY: But this is no normal election. The sound of nearby gunfire interrupts the inspection, a stark reminder of the dangers never far away.
Iraqi forces will be on the frontline of security at polling stations on Sunday. They know their role is vital if the elections are to be a success.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not green soldiers. They're battle- hardened. I've gone around. I've inspected them just like I would my own soldiers, looked at their plans, looked at their preparations, and it's solid.
CONNERY: Any driver found breaking the traffic curfew is treated as suspicious. Suicide bombers have claimed a heavy toll there.
But American and Iraqi forces believe they've done everything they can to make these elections safe.
Neal Connery, ITV News, Mosul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: More than a quarter of a million Iraqis living in this country and around the world have already begun voting in the Iraqi election. In this country, Iraqis are voting in five metropolitan areas, including Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, Washington and Nashville.
Thelma Gutierrez records from a polling place in El Toro, California, just outside Los Angeles -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Lou.
Well, this polling site is going to remain open for the next two hours, and at last count, 400 people had already cast their ballots today.
Now, it seems like a small number, but organizers say they're not that concerned. They feel that it's Friday. Many people work. They expect those numbers to pick up over the weekend.
Thirty-eight hundred people are actually registered to vote here at this site over the next few days. Now, this is the only polling place on the west coast. The place closest to this is actually Nashville, Tennessee, so we've talked to people who've come from Oregon, from Washington, from as far away as Utah who say they made the sacrifice to be able to have a chance to take part in history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My family lives still in Baghdad, so this is for them, too, and it's a privilege actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a voice for the people that have left and the people that are minorities that are still there. As Christians and Assyrians and Chaldeans all over the world, we're giving a vote for them back home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vote represent liberty and freedom for all Iraqis. We have waited for centuries for liberty and freedom.
GUTIERREZ: Now they came in small groups, they came in entire families. People had ink-stained fingers. They were holding them up very proudly, telling us that this was the moment that they had waited for all of their lives -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thelma, thank you very much.
Here on CNN, we'll have extensive coverage of those Iraqi elections throughout the weekend.
Beginning tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, we'll have a two-hour special report, "Iraq Votes," anchored tonight by Anderson Cooper and Christiane Amanpour in Baghdad, Paula Zahn in New York and Aaron Brown in Dearborn, Michigan.
We'll have live and complete coverage of the Iraqi elections tomorrow and Sunday as well, of course. There will be a three-hour special edition of our broadcast Sunday. It begins at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Sunday, 1:00 p.m. Pacific.
Well, still ahead here, "Hot Pursuit." Federal agents on the hunt for illegal aliens at large on American soil and convicted of crimes in this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL MONICO, ICE DEPORTATION SUPERVISOR: He's been arrested on several charges, including up to assault and battery, domestic violence. He does have a history of violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Tonight, I'll be talking about the immigration crisis with a leading U.S. senator who says the federal government is responsible for the invasion of illegal aliens into this country and should be paying state governments.
"A Soldier's Struggle" tonight. A wounded veteran of the war in Iraq, she supports the global war on terror, but has some harsh words for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
All of that and more coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Thirty-two illegal aliens were discovered on a small piece of land off the coast of Miami today. Coast Guard boats picked up the illegals and brought them to the mainland where they are now being interviewed by the Border Patrol.
A spokesman for the Border Patrol said they claim to be from Cuba. It is not yet known how they were left there or if they were brought into this country by smugglers.
An estimated 100,000 illegal aliens in this country have been convicted of crimes committed in this country, other than their illegal status, of course, yet most of them remain at large. Special Immigration and Customs Enforcement teams are now trying to hunt down those illegal aliens one by one.
Dan Lothian reports from Brockton, Massachusetts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the trail of convicted illegal immigrants, federal agents with the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement unit, or ICE, are getting ready to move in on a Dominican national in Fall River, Massachusetts. They say he served time for his crime, but is in this country illegally and is avoiding deportation. MONICO: He's been arrested on several charges, including up to assault and battery, domestic violence. He does have a history of violence.
LOTHIAN: Long before the sun rises...
MONICO: Jim, do you want to come up on the other side? Far right.
LOTHIAN: Daniel Monico, Jim Martin and the rest of the ICE unit plod through fresh snow and find their target on the second floor of this apartment building.
JIM MARTIN, ICE DEPUTY FIELD OFFICER: He came out to us, and he saw us. Again, we identified ourselves to him.
LOTHIAN (on camera): What was his reaction?
MARTIN: A little surprised.
LOTHIAN (voice-over): An hour later, a Cape Verdean man in the U.S. illegally, agents say, is cornered in the City of Brockton as he walks down the sidewalk. His crime?
MONICO: The initial charge was rape of a child and, again, for whatever reason, it was plea bargained down, but it was a conviction.
LOTHIAN: Just two of more than 100 illegal fugitives in this pile the Boston office is hunting. Nationally, it's estimated 80,000 to 100,000 convicted illegal immigrants are out there.
MARC RAMONDI, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: People who show repeat offenses, multiple charges against them, multiple convictions. We prioritize our removal proceedings by going after the worst of the worst, and, once we do, we do that with the aim of protecting national security and public safety.
LOTHIAN (on camera): There are 18 of these teams hunting down fugitives across the country, using the element of surprise to put them in handcuffs, then sending them of the country in anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of months.
(voice-over): The heat was turned up after 9/11. Even though there's no evidence that anyone on the ICE unit's list is a terrorist...
RAMONDI: They're going to go get them.
MONICO: We're going to go get them.
LOTHIAN ... the effort, say Martin and Monaco, is critical in protecting America's borders.
MARTIN: These people have disregarded their orders to leave the country. They've had an opportunity to be heard in court, and the case was decided against them. So we're pursuing those folks that are just not complying with those orders.
LOTHIAN: Even as the department seeks more funding and more personnel to keep these units in hot pursuit.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Brockton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Later here, Senator Dianne Feinstein will join me. She's proposed new legislation intended to hold the federal government responsible for the immigration crisis in this country -- at least part of it. Senator Feinstein will be our guest.
Some states in this country are allowing illegal aliens now to use a government identification number to obtain driver's licenses, voter identification cards and even home loans. These identification cards were created for use only by the Internal Revenue Service. Now some states are using those cards as a way to grant illegal aliens the benefits of U.S. citizenship.
Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. This is Corrine (ph). How can I help you?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here in Milwaukee, Mitchell Bank is one of several Wisconsin banks where illegal aliens can get mortgages.
All it takes is an individual taxpayer identification number, an ITIN, given out by the Internal Revenue Service. That number is meant to collect income taxes from people without Social Security numbers.
But Wisconsin's Housing Authority is going a step further, letting illegal aliens use the number to get a mortgage. They say they're just serving a growing market.
RAYMOND HILEY (ph), WHEDA: We can stick our heads in the sand and pretend that they don't exist. They are here. They're living amongst us. They're earning over $80 billion in income. They are here. They can be here with assets, or they can be here on the public dole and a drain on our system.
ROMANS: Critics say the program rewards law breakers.
GLENN GROTHMAN, WISCONSIN STATE SENATE: It just makes a mockery of our laws, and it is an insult not only to American citizens, but it's an insult to the employees of our immigration service, and it's an insult to anybody who appears foolishly to try to wait patiently in line to come into this country legally.
ROMANS: The program is recognized by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago who says most banks understand that illegal aliens are in a "peculiar position." Still, the IRS position is clear. The ITIN is to be used for tax purposes only. The IRS has issued at least seven million ITIN numbers since 1996. It was so nervous about abuse of the numbers, it's warned governors and state motor vehicle departments that ITINs were not designed to serve as personal identification and should not be used for driver's licenses.
Still, across this country, illegal aliens are using these cards, and at least five states are accepting them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: So are several federal agencies as well, Lou. In Wisconsin's case, the Housing Authority vigorously defends its mortgage program. It says it's keeping American dollars in this country by not being sent to Mexico, and it's saying it's actually helping rebuild some downtrodden neighborhoods.
DOBBS: I'm all but speechless. The moronic posturing by people on this immigration crisis is just -- it's stunning. The mentality. I mean, how do you explain people sitting there in the Housing Authority basically postulating as if they were holding forth for a national policy and just ignoring a set of rules and laws and regulations that have been on the books for years.
ROMANS: Well, Lou, the press officer for WHEDA, the Wisconsin Housing Authority, told me he's as illegal as illegal aliens because when he was 7, he stole with his brother a candy bar. He broke a law. He's illegal. That's equivalent to this. He thinks that it's a reality, that there are 10 million illegal aliens in this country. It's a market that needs to be served.
DOBBS: And that's the kind of mentality that we're dealing with. Hard-working people in this country, many of them immigrants -- legal immigrants -- having to deal with this, and a government that is just seeing fit at the state and federal level to ignore the law and the wellbeing of the country.
Christine, thank you, for the report.
Christine Romans.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question is: Do you believe state governments should allow illegal aliens to use a government identification number to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We wouldn't blame you if you added a few comments in point of fact with that vote.
Also ahead here, "A Soldier's Struggle." One young sergeant's remarkable resolve.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I were there, I'd be telling my soldiers, you know, be behind this 100 percent because this is our job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: We'll have her inspiring story in "Heroes" tonight.
A bold new effort to hold the federal government responsible for the immigration crisis that it's created in this country. Senator Dianne Feinstein leading the effort. She's our guest coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Senator Dianne Feinstein will be here in just a moment. We'll be talking about why she says illegal immigration is a federal responsibility and should be reinforcing the states for the economic burden that falls upon them.
But, first, these stories.
Two of the world's largest makers of household goods joining forces. Proctor and Gamble today buying Gillette, a $57 billion stock deal.
The arraignment of Juan Alvarez has been postponed for a second day. Alvarez is the man charged with murder in Wednesday's train crash in Los Angeles in which 11 people were killed. Alvarez is now undergoing further medical evaluation.
NASA could return to space as early as the month of May. An independent panel overseeing the return to flight says NASA's progress has astronauts gearing up for a launch in late spring. The shuttle fleet has been grounded since the Columbia broke apart over Texas in February of 2003.
Senator Dianne Feinstein has proposed legislation that would reimburse state governments for some of the $13 billion they're estimated to be spending on the incarceration of illegal aliens. Feinstein's proposal would raise federal funding of reimbursement programs to about $1 billion.
I talked with the senator earlier and asked her if she believes this legislation is a meaningful step toward the federal government finally taking responsibility for the crisis it's created, allowing it to address the critical issues of border security, national security and the social, political and economic impact of our immigration crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think so. Most people I hear come on your show and say, you know, the immigration system is broken, and that's true, but it's tough duty to fix it, and it takes very strong people to recognize that what happens is, in any given area, you have an infrastructure problem. Your hospitals, your schools, your workplace, your housing can only absorb so many people at a given time. And, therefore, if you just have a flood of people coming in, it's very difficult. It's one of the things that I think creates a backlash and that we -- those of us that value this nation as the Statue of Liberty says have to have an orderly system, a legal system by which we do it.
DOBBS: And I know that you believe strongly that -- both as a matter of national security, national interests, that border security is essential, in all aspects.
FEINSTEIN: Yes. Border security really is essential because, if you have open, porous borders, you can be absolutely sure that terrorists are going to take advantage of them and may have already.
DOBBS: Senator, I have to ask you this because you're one of the most respected senators in Washington, D.C. I...
FEINSTEIN: I don't know about that.
DOBBS: Well, you definitely are, and the fact is I have to believe you're already being criticized and hearing from the open borders lobby, and that, by the way, canvasses across the whole political spectrum in this country for a number of reasons. Are you feeling some pressure from that lobby right now?
FEINSTEIN: Oh, yes. I think it's a very strong lobby, and I think there is a real push toward open borders. Having said that, I don't believe it's supported by a majority of people. I don't even believe it's supported by a majority of the legal immigration community, who says, look, we did it legally, why shouldn't everybody else, and...
DOBBS: Senator, I'll tell you our audience made up of many legal immigrants and many Hispanics. There's no confusion in their minds at all about this issue, and it's precisely as you describe.
FEINSTEIN: Yes, I think that's right, and I think -- you know, in California, we passed Proposition 187, which was really -- it was found to be unconstitutional. I opposed it at the time. There's a lot of worry that somebody's going to put something similar back on the ballot and that it would pass again.
And so I -- I think, as we approach these matters, we really have to be practical, we have to understand and take care of people who are here legally, and there may be some reason -- and I happen to believe there is -- that there are many people who have been here 15, 20 years, a long time...
DOBBS: Right.
FEINSTEIN: ... many of whom missed the earlier amnesty. They are legal. They are law-abiding. They work. They own their homes. They pay taxes. I think there...
DOBBS: It's a different... FEINSTEIN: There should be the ability to adjust their status, and, of course, in the law, there are up to 4,000 a year, and that isn't used...
DOBBS: And...
FEINSTEIN: ... which is interesting.
DOBBS: And it's also interesting, Senator, the people who just simply don't want to deal with the fact that illegal is illegal, that the federal government is not meeting its requirements and safeguarding our borders and are providing for support for, as you point out, and as you're trying to address, incarceration of illegal aliens.
FEINSTEIN: Yes.
DOBBS: Senator, as always, we thank you very much for being here. And it's great talking with you. And we wish you a lot of luck.
FEINSTEIN: Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Senator Dianne Feinstein.
Turning now to the war in Iraq, Sgt. Carla Best was wounded in Iraq and has undergone multiple surgeries over just the past few months. Sgt. Best is critical of some of the Bush administration's decisions in this war, but she has never questioned her dedication to the mission.
Dana Bash has her story from Virginia Beach, Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You remember this one? We're going to start with the left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then step down?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sgt. Carla Best is here five days a week, determined to walk again. A roadside attack on a mission in Iraq left her knee completely destroyed. She's in constant pain, still much better than she was at Walter Reed Hospital in November when the commander in chief dropped in.
SGT. CARLA BEST, U.S. ARMY: He gave me a coin. And I almost cried, because I'm a big coin collector. You know, in the military, they give coins, and it's a big deal. And when I got a coin from the president, that's the highest you can go.
BASH (voice-over): Sgt. Best recalls the president as compassionate, telling her to be strong. But in his private visit, she noticed he was careful not to ask questions he may not want answers to.
(on camera): Did he say, do you have the equipment you need?
BEST: No, he didn't ask anything about that, because I probably would have got political on him. It was a civilian van that I got hurt in. And had I been in a Humvee, I probably wouldn't be in the position that I'm in.
BASH (voice-over): Sgt. Best does not know why she was sent into the Iraqi night in an unarmored van. She will always know the sound of the explosion.
BEST: And I was just like, "OK, this is it." And, I don't know, it was almost like, "OK, I'm going to die right here in Iraq in the middle of some Iraqi road."
BASH: By chance, she was MedEvaced where her brother, also in Iraq, was based. He held her hand.
ANTHONY EBELING, CARLA'S BROTHER: I do remember her in a lot of pain. And it was hard, because I couldn't do anything for her. So you're staring at -- she's my older sister, and she wasn't -- you know, she wasn't supposed to get hurt.
BEST: If I were there, I'd be telling my soldiers, you know, be behind this 100 percent, because this is our job.
BASH: Fifteen surgeries later, the sergeant supports the mission but questions the war plan.
BEST: Just too much eagerness to get in there into Iraq, but now there's these insurgents around that are just knocking us on our asses.
BASH: She's not shy about her disdain for the defense secretary.
BEST: When that soldier got up and straight up asked him about the up-armored vehicles, and his answer, that smug answer that he gave?
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: As you know, you go to war with the army you have.
BEST: I have a coin from Donald Rumsfeld, and at that moment, I started cursing. And I said, "I wish I could give this coin back to that man."
BASH: Back in the hospital, an optimistic president promised her knee would be fixed. She knew that wouldn't happen. Now her parents want people to realize that she's just one of over 10,000 wounded in Iraq, and care giving takes a toll.
VICKIE EBELING, CARLA'S MOTHER: You give up your job, and you don't even think twice about doing it, but then the bills come in.
BASH: The daughter remains idealistic. BEST: I wish that younger people would get out and vote and think about the impact. Because there's people in Iraq right now that the only way they can get out and vote is if another country comes in and stands guard for them.
BASH: And, despite her doubts, after all she's been through, she has to believe the war is winnable.
BEST: God, I hope so. I don't want my injury to be for nothing.
BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, Virginia Beach, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, a former coalition adviser who says there is reason to celebrate the U.S. achievements in Iraq. He says the elections will be a success. He's our guest, next.
And in "Heroes," a former marine who has been recognized multiple times for bravery in Iraq. We'll have his incredible story, another "Hero," next. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: My next guest says the United States should celebrate the upcoming Iraqi elections, and points out that, unlike the European Union, the United States has actually done something to bring liberty to those who have suffered under tyrannical regimes.
Michael Rubin is a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, also a former adviser to the Coalition Provisional Authority.
Good to have you with us.
MICHAEL RUBIN, SCHOLAR, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Straight up, the question has to be, will these elections be a success and by what measure?
RUBIN: I very much think so. If we're looking at turnout, that's the wrong factor to be looking at. After we have these elections, there's going to be a coalition government. The very fact that, in the Middle East, in the Arab world, you have a coalition government where people have to compromise with each other, where no one is able to impose their will, that in itself is a measure of success.
The only legitimacy is the legitimacy the Iraqis see, and we'll know that in 11 months when they have the referendum on the constitution which has been written.
DOBBS: You say turnout is not a critical measure of the success. What are, in your judgment, the likelihood that we're going to see Sunni participation, that we will not see the Shia, the predominant vast majority of the Iraqi population, just overwhelmingly win power? RUBIN: Well, I think the Shia list, the so-called United Iraqi Alliance, will win at least 40, 45 percent of the vote, but what's often forgotten is it's not an exclusively Shia list. There's 30 Sunni politicians on it. The Kurds are going to be a major factor. And then many Sunnis are real factors. Ghazi Yaouar, the current president, the whole province of Diala, where Baqubah, once a Sunni triangle town, they're ready to vote. I think we're going to be surprised, pleasantly.
DOBBS: Well, and certainly I think everyone would be delighted to be pleasantly surprised. A couple things, Michael, as you look at this and having advised the authority, within the last two weeks, the United States military and the Iraqi government announcing they're closing the borders of Iraq.
And after all that has been gone on with the insurgency, it seems mind-boggling that that hadn't already been done, at least to the extent that it could be done. And secondly, what is the view, the role, and perhaps the threat of Iran in these elections and post- election?
RUBIN: Well, to the first question, I can't agree with you more. We did let the ball drop when it came to border security, no question, no argument. Now, when it comes to Iran, the one issue which the Americans most underestimated was the psychological impact which formal occupation would have on the Iraqis.
The one issue the Iranians most underestimated was the force of Iraqi nationalism. Just because the majority of Iraqi are Shia doesn't mean that they're pro-Iranian. And, in fact, we know this from history, because, during the Iran-Iraq war, you didn't see 60 percent of the country pick up and move to Iran.
DOBBS: And a sizable percentage of the country, about 15 percent Kurdish to the north, their likely role in Iraq's immediate future?
RUBIN: In many ways, they're going to be what makes the coalition. I wouldn't be surprised. If no one wins a majority, they're going to have to come together.
I'll put my neck on the line right now. The Shia list, the United Iraqi Alliance, are going to get 40 to 45 percent. The Kurds are going to get 25 percent. Iyad Allawi, the interim prime minister, will get 10 percent, and the rest will be evenly divided.
The Kurds, I think, are going to take the presidency. The Shia are going to take the prime ministership. And the key ministry, which people are going to fight over, is the interior ministry, because the issue in this campaign inside Iraq is security. That's not surprising. And so the interior minister decides the police policy. That's where the key discussions are going to be.
DOBBS: And in your judgment, Michael Rubin, a success comes Sunday?
RUBIN: Hopefully. Thank you. DOBBS: Thank you for being here. Appreciate it.
RUBIN: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question: Do you believe state governments should be allowing illegal aliens to use government identification numbers to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens?
Please vote yes or no at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up in the broadcast.
Next, three of this country's very best political journalists join me.
And our "Hero" this week, who earned two purple hearts, two bronze stars for bravery in Iraq. Now, this staff sergeant is fighting to honor his fallen comrade. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the country's top political journalists. In Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine, Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report," here in New York, Ron Brownstein of "Los Angeles Times".
Ron -- I can't believe it, the Pentagon has decided to outsource presidential helicopters. What do you make of it?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, some symbols are big enough that you really don't want to be stepping in waters like that. And this probably is something that's going to cause them a lot of headaches, whatever marginal value they might see in the contract. The political headaches and the symbolism, I think, to American workers is something that they're going to probably regret.
DOBBS: Roger, you know, Lockheed Martin has never built a helicopter. Don't you think it's kind of strange to be experimenting with the president of the United States is the designated passenger?
ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": It's ridiculous. I mean, all lives are precious, but some lives are more to be guarded than others. And the life of the president is number one on that list.
And also, as Ron correctly just pointed out, some symbols are important. This would be like Air Force One being purchased from Airbus. It just doesn't make any sense. They couldn't have saved enough money to make this worth it.
DOBBS: Well, speaking of Airbus and outsourcing Marine One, the president's helicopter, Karen, the trade deficit exploding in the fourth quarter, dragging down economic growth by 1.7 percentage points on GDP. It would have been 4.8 percent, almost 5 percent, without the fact that we are continuing to go absolutely mad in this country with imports. What do you think? Is that a political story yet? KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: You know, Lou, it's interesting. It is getting to be and very, very quickly. I've been really surprised recently. Democrats and Republicans, but primarily Democrats, have always seen, you know, the current accounts deficit as sort of a very esoteric kind of issue.
But I've got tell you. I'm hearing politicians talking about it a lot these days as sort of a trapdoor for the economy. They're talking about it the way we heard them talking about jobs last year.
DOBBS: And those jobs, indeed, still being outsourced, the trade deficit continuing to widen, the dollar now plummeting. Treasury Secretary John Snow saying, "There's great commitment on the part of this administration to lower the deficits." New records in terms of the federal budget deficit, new records in the trade deficit, the dollar is plummeting to new lows.
BROWNSTEIN: You know, in a way, Lou...
DOBBS: Can we stand any more such commitment?
BROWNSTEIN: In a way, with the Democrats in such a weak position in both the House and the Senate, lacking the votes to move any of their agenda, the currency market is in effect becoming the opposition party to the Bush administration. James Carville famously said in the first Clinton term that he wished he could die and come back as the bond market.
Well, right now, the international currency traders who are expressing their skepticism about American economic policies through the pressure on the dollar really are the most effective source of opposition to the Bush economic agenda that there is out there.
DOBBS: Roger, chutzpa abroad, if you will. A top Chinese economist saying that the Chinese government has lost faith in the dollar, although they continue to accept our dollar -- and I guess we should be grateful for that -- at record levels. And the Mexican interior minister saying that the United States should not hold forth on internal Mexican affairs, when almost 30 Americans have been abducted for ransom along the border.
Is there any point at which the United States government awakens and says, "Yes, this is still a nation state." Or are we just simply to wave and let it all pass us by?
SIMON: Well, they say you know you're at the head of the pack when everyone is biting you on the behind, Lou, so maybe this is just an example of how American power continues.
But some of it is outrageous. I mean, China really couldn't be that concerned about American debt. They keep buying American debt. And you're right -- you were making a joke, but you're right. We're going to be in trouble when foreign countries stop buying U.S. bonds, which is how we financed this whole effort.
DOBBS: Well, we've got troubles to consider. You know, it's a wonderful life in this country, but the fact is, Karen, Senator Kennedy has again reiterated his call to get U.S. troops out of Iraq, to move on. We've got the elections coming up.
We just heard Michael Rubin, a person I respect greatly in terms of his views on Iraq and Iran, say that he thinks this is going to be a success. What's at stake here politically? What do you think the prospects for success are, Karen?
TUMULTY: Well, at this point, I think that, after these elections are over, and we're all hoping that they go well, that Senator Kennedy is not going to be the only person in the Senate, and certainly there are already people in the House as well, demanding an exit strategy.
I think that that is the place where the political debate is going to go naturally once the elections are over with. And certainly the signs right now aren't terribly good. Going into the election, violence, despite the capture of some of the top insurgents, is up, not down.
DOBBS: I want each of you to weigh on this, if you would. And, Ron, please be first on this.
This president is coming forth with his agenda. He's talking this week about knowing how to build a team, set an agenda, and get it done. His party -- there are giant fissures built around Social Security reform. His immigration proposals which look, frankly, to be DOA, when people, I think, a year ago would have said this is a no- brainer for him. He's running into resistance on nearly every major initiative.
BROWNSTEIN: He is. And it's really striking, Lou. Because I think that -- by and large, the Republicans have made a very different calculation than the Democrats did when Bill Clinton was in power. And when Clinton was in power, the congressional Democrats went their own way, voted all the time in the way they thought it would be best for them at home. And sort of the whole enterprise fell apart. Republicans have shown remarkable willingness to stick together behind President Bush in the thought that it helps all of them.
You're seeing that break down now, surprisingly even more in the House and the Senate. The House has been sort of the vanguard of the Bush revolution, but now, especially on Social Security and immigration -- immigration they're saying they want to do law enforcement first, and they're not really optimistic or enthusiastic about his efforts toward legalization.
And then on Social Security, you're seeing the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Bill Thomas, saying let's do something much more fundamental than Bush is talking about, maybe even go toward replacing the payroll tax.
TUMULTY: Although, Ron, this is sort of the political physics of the second term of a presidency, as well. I mean, the fact is that it is no -- the top goal for Republicans right now in Congress is no longer the reelection of the president. It is, in fact, saving their own skins.
And so their interests -- it was definitely true that their interests were going to depart from his in a second term. What's surprising is how quickly it's happened. And it does suggest that President Bush has got to get action very, very quickly on these big- ticket items like Social Security or any chance he has at all of getting them is gone.
DOBBS: I'm sorry, Karen. Roger, you get the last word, a quick word, if you would.
SIMON: The members of Congress on the Republican side are very well aware that George Bush wants Social Security to be his domestic legacy to the nation. And as Karen has said, that's not their concern. They have to get reelected in two years. They do not want this albatross hung around their necks. I think he's going to have real trouble passing it.
DOBBS: And I think, as each of you is really pointing out here, in the House in particular and even the Senate, people are starting to see those polls showing how the American people that have not always been represented in the middle are feeling about immigration, Social Security, and taxes, as well.
Ron, thank you very much.
Karen, Roger, thank you. We appreciate it, as always. Thanks for your insights.
Still ahead here, "Heroes." A former marine and soldier who earned two purple hearts, two bronze stars for bravery in Iraq, his story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve and defend this country.
Tonight, the remarkable story of Staff Sergeant Dennis Griffee. He has served as both a marine and a soldier. He's earned two purple hearts and two bronze stars. He had planned on a long career in the military, before an attack during his tour in Iraq changed everything. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAFF SGT. DENNIS GRIFFEE, U.S. ARMY: There you go.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Staff Sgt. Dennis Griffee is learning a new set of skills.
GRIFFEE: You going to go again?
WIAN: He's been awarded two purple hearts and two bronze stars for his bravery in Iraq. Now he's fighting for sole custody of his daughter, Justice. GRIFFEE: She's my new little battle buddy now. And I think she helps me more than I help her, honestly.
WIAN: Justice was born while Griffee was in Iraq. The mission inspired her name, but he almost didn't make it back to be her dad. Griffee was on a routine night patrol near Taji when an explosion rocked his Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
GRIFFEE: I remember thinking, "No, God, not like this," you know? And it felt like I was literally being torn in every direction, ripped apart, just cell-by-cell, just excruciating pain.
WIAN: The force threw the Bradley into the air, then crashing to the ground. Griffee checked for casualties. His gunner was injured but OK, but his driver didn't respond. The Bradley then became engulfed in flames. Griffee attempted a rescue, but it was impossible. As the Bradley burned, Griffee realized his own pain.
GRIFFEE: The adrenalin started wearing off, and my back just knotted up, I mean, excruciating pain.
WIAN: Griffee had broken a vertebrae in his back, but it would be months before he would get reconstructive surgery back in the United States. Meanwhile, he fought on to honor his fallen driver.
GRIFFEE: Nobody could figure out how we lived through it, you know? Everybody agreed that we should have been all killed. And then you have to deal with the questions of, why am I still here? And why did it, you know, why did my driver die?
WIAN: More than a year later, Griffee still struggles with pain and nightmares. He'll be medically discharged from the military soon and plans to go to college.
Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll have the results of tonight's poll and a preview of what's ahead this Sunday during our special three- hour edition of this broadcast on the Iraqi elections. CNN, committed to coverage from now through this evening and the weekend on those Iraqi elections coming up Sunday. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll overwhelming: 95 percent of you say state governments should not allow illegal aliens to use a government identification number to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens. It turns out that that is also the regulations that are on the book and the laws -- the law, whatever relevance that has to immigration policy in this country right now.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us Sunday here for our three-hour special edition as we cover the Iraqi elections throughout the weekend on CNN. Our coverage begins at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Sunday. Please join us. Our guests include two leading members of the Armed Services Committee and the general who ran the massive reconstruction effort in Iraq.
For all of us here, good night from New York. Have a pleasant weekend. "CNN's SPECIAL REPORT: IRAQ VOTES" is next.
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