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'Kamber & May'; Attorneys for Both Sides of Michael Jackson Case Will Start Screening Prospective Jurors

Aired January 31, 2005 - 08:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. In the wake of the elections in Iraq, one view says Iraq has just undergone a seismic political shift. Another view, though, says, what's different about Iraq today than it was on Saturday? Kamber and May have got opposite sides in the Iraqi election, just ahead.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, there's a significant story out of California today. How are the lawyers going to pick a jury for the Michael Jackson trial that starts today? After all, most of the jury pool is likely to know, or at least some, of the sordid details. We'll talk to a professional jury consultant about the advice she would give the prosecution and also defense, and we'll get to that.

O'BRIEN: Carol Costello has a look at the headlines this morning. Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news, the death toll is rising from last month's tsunami. Another 5,000 victims were discovered in Indonesia earlier today. In the meantime, aid is continuing to trickle in for the survivors of the disaster. A leading United Nations official says nearly 800,000 people in Indonesia's Aceh province alone need food.

British authorities are not saying why one of their military planes went down in Iraq. They say they're not in a position to comment about that. The British government does confirm nine air force personnel and one soldier are missing and presumed dead. They were aboard the Hercules C-130 transport plane, just like the one being shown in this video.

The country's largest not-for-profit managed-care provider says it will stop prescribing Bextra, at least temporarily. Kaiser is waiting for test results showing whether the painkiller is safe. Some researchers have linked Bextra with increased rates of heart attack. This is the first case of doctors deciding to stop prescribing a drug already approved by the FDA.

Sunday, that's the night that the lights went out in Georgia. At least 50,000 still without power in parts of that state. Some 300,000 homes and businesses going out electricity this weekend after one brutal ice storm. It also slowed down traffic on the roadways. We'll get the latest check of the weather just with Chad just ahead. I think they're in for the big meltdown now. O'BRIEN: So it will be flooding. Good news, bad news, right?

COSTELLO: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, thank you very much.

Well, the voices of millions of Iraqis have been heard following the nation's first free election in half a century. The ballots are being counted. The process is being called a success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today the people of Iraq have spoken to the world, and the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East. In great numbers and under great risk, Iraqis have shown their commitment to democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Is Iraq on the road to democracy? From Miami this morning, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber. And in Washington D.C., former RNC communications director Cliff May.

Good morning to you, guys. Nice to see you, as always.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Good morning.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Vic, let's begin with you. This has been called over and over by many people a resounding success. Do you agree with that?

KAMBER: Well, I think George Bush called it a resounding success about three months ago once he announced it was going to happen. It was going to be a success no matter what. The bar was low, because he just wanted to have an election.

Having said that, no, it is a success in the sense people turned out, people voted. It looks like big numbers. In the Sunni area, it was not as great as we'd hoped.

But having said that, martial law existed, heavy military containment in the country.

O'BRIEN: People were dancing and singing in the streets, right?

KAMBER: And 46 died in those same streets with this election. So was it a success that we had an election, yes? Does it change anything in Iraq today? I'm not sure.

O'BRIEN: Cliff, how about a resounding political success for the White House?

MAY: Well, yes. I mean, look, first of all, it is a resounding success for the people of Iraq. I want you to see that I've got my finger inked in solidarity with the freedom fighters and revolutionaries.

O'BRIEN: I was going to say you're not Iraqi, you're not an exile. What are you doing with that?

MAY: I'm in solidarity with them.

O'BRIEN: Gotcha.

MAY: We've not seen an election like this ever in the Arab Middle East. And the people of the Middle East, in the broader Muslim world, they haven't seen elections like this very much. So it is a startling thing to see, and it changes the equation.

Now, the work is not entirely over, by any means. There's still so much more to do. We still have terrorists there, led by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the al Qaeda leader in Iraq. He needs to be defeated. We still have the party of return. That's the old Baathist ruling class. They want to come back. All they are doing, and all they can do and all they have to offer is random killings of innocent people. That's what they're doing there, and they need to be defeated by us and by the Iraqis, hopefully working together. But it's a huge milestone.

KAMBER: No, as Cliff says, the work's not over. I'm suggesting the work hasn't changed. An election brought about an election. We had an election. There will be winners. There'll be losers. The bottom line is no one assumes that the American government is going to turn over power, or can turn over power to that government that's elected. We have no fewer terrorists today than we had yesterday.

O'BRIEN: But they're on their way to drafting a constitution. I mean, many people, even people who did not support the war in Iraq are saying these are the baby steps toward democracy.

KAMBER: Totally agree.

O'BRIEN: What's your definition then of success? Is it American troops out? Is it when it they have a constitution, which they haven't had?

KAMBER: I don't think it's any question it's when it's a stable country and we're not losing lives anymore. And if we have to have peacekeeping forces, they're not U.S. peacekeeping forces, but world peacekeeping forces. You can't call it success when we occupy a country.

O'BRIEN: Cliff, agree with that definition. I mean, to some degree, a lot of Americans really just care about when Americans come home.

MAY: What we're talking about -- well, unfortunately, we are in a war against terrorists and against Islamic fascism around the world. The frontline, obviously, is in Iraq. That's where the most deadly of the al Qaeda leaders, has been living, and that's where he's sending out his suicide bombers, and we still haven't entirely beaten all of the Saddam Hussein loyalists, because when we went in after them, we let a lot of them get away and they have reorganized. We're going to be fighting this war. Victor has to get this through his head. We are going to be fighting a way against Islamic fascism and terrorism for a very long time. I hope it will be over in our lifetime, but you want to avoid the war, Victor. We can't.

(CROSSTALK)

KAMBER: No, Cliff, I understand it. I understand it. I don't believe George Bush understood it. George Bush, on two or three occasions, has claimed it's over, mission accomplished. I wish he'd level with the American people and say this is a three, four, five year, $300 billion, $400 billion, $500 billion effort.

MAY: I'm telling you, it's longer than that. This is a generational war. It's what Jim Woolsey, who was just on this show, and Elliot Cohen (ph) has called "World War IV." World War III having been the Cold War, and there are too many other people like yourself and like Senator Kennedy, who don't seem to understand what is taking place in the world. These people...

O'BRIEN: If democracy, Cliff, is achieved, if the constitution is drafted, in your mind then, that was worth the cost? That was worth the whatever the number ends up being of American lives, and the number of Iraqi lives that have been lost? And I guess that's my question.

MAY: It will be the beginning of a transformation of the Middle East, an area from which terrible terrorism as has emerged and has gone out with its goal, its stated goal, of destroying democracy and destroying the Western world. Unless we clean the swamps, unless we drain them, we will never get rid of the alligators and the mosquitoes. That's what we're doing here. And Iraq is serving as the first model of a transformation. This area of the world cannot be left behind forever in poverty and oppression and have us think it won't affect us. Our oceans do not protect us as they did. We learned that on 9/11.

O'BRIEN: We've got a lot more to talk about. We're out of time. But you know, you talk about a first model. So I wonder if that means you see this happening over and over and over again.

KAMBER: God forbid.

O'BRIEN: What that would mean to U.S. troops as well, but that's something we're going to talk about the next time we meet up.

You guys, as always, thanks a lot -- Bill.

HEMMER: Now to a much different topic, Soledad. In a few hours, attorneys for both sides of the Michael Jackson case will start screening prospective jurors in that molestation case in California. Yesterday, the singer released a video statement about leaks in his case on a Web site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, ENTERTAINER: In the last few weeks, a large amount of ugly, malicious information has been released into the media about me. Apparently, this information was leaked through transcripts in a grand jury proceeding, where neither my lawyers nor I ever appeared. The information is disgusting and false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: That was Michael Jackson from this weekend. Today, from Dallas, jury consultant Nona Dodson is with us. She often works for the defense in criminal and civil cases.

Good morning to you, and welcome.

NONA DODSON, JURY CONSULTANT: Good morning.

HEMMER: Let's start with your strength -- defense attorneys are looking for what kind of man and woman to sit on this jury?

DODSON: Someone who has no bias, or holds no animosity or ill will towards Mr. Jackson, primarily, someone who can come to the jury table with a clean slate, listen to the evidence and decide the case based upon what's presented to them.

HEMMER: How do you find that out through an question-and-answer session in court.

DODSON: Well, they're not allowed to have individual voir dire. They're going to have to visit with these people. They have a good sense of where they are right now based on the questionnaire, because the jurors answered a seven-page questionnaire. So scale questions, more closed-ended questions would be proper, I think, in this case.

HEMMER: What about the prosecution? What are they looking for, Nona?

DODSON I think they're looking for people who have a preconceived or are a preconception of Mr. Jackson. They want people who look at him as odd or strange or difficult, or possibly they bring into the courtroom an attitude that he might possibly be guilty of these charges.

HEMMER: When some suggest that an impartial jury is impossible in this part of California, what do you say to them?

DODSON: I say there's a middle ground in there somewhere. Mr. Jackson is sort of like liver, one either loves it or hates it. There's no middle ground for him. People really like him or they don't like him. And they're trying to find that small percentage of people in that area who have no opinions, or no strong opinions.

HEMMER: What is your best guess, Nona, at this point, about how long a juror in this trial would have to serve?

DODSON: How long a juror would have to serve?

HEMMER: Yes, depending on how long the trial goes.

DODSON: I'm not -- I don't understand your question.

HEMMER: How long will the case last? How much time do you have to give up?

DODSON: A couple of months, six months. I don't know. I mean, I've heard that it's going to be a six-month trial and if so, that's one of the reasons they've opted to -- the judge has opted to give eight alternates, because as you saw in the Scott Peterson trial, alternates become an important part of a long case. And the O.J. Simpson trial, also.

HEMMER: One thing, if Michael Jackson's in court during this trial, what impact does that have on that bank of men and women?

DODSON: I think that he's a curiosity to some. He is a defendant to others. He is a person who's not guilty to some. They're going to be keeping a close eye on him, because they've -- a lot of people, most of these people, have grown up with Michael Jackson. So they want to see the person that's accused of these crimes.

HEMMER: Interesting stuff. Nona Dodson, thanks for your time. Out of Dallas, Texas. We'll speak again. All right -- Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Snowball fight. That was the cry this weekend for thousands in Illinois.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On your mark, get set!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: At least 3,000 people made an attempt to break the world record for the largest snowball fight. Switzerland currently holds that record. Who knew there was a record? With over 2,400 participants. Each snowballer had to pay two bucks to play. And the money is going to go to local Lions Club charities. So if they did 3,000 in Illinois and it's all certified and all that, looks like they could be in it.

HEMMER: Good packing stuff, too, especially if you're not...

O'BRIEN: And look, he has no shirt.

HEMMER: ... wearing your shirt.

O'BRIEN: That's no good. My kids do that, too. It wasn't very good packing snow here in New York, though. No, too fluffy, still.

HEMMER: Well, winter's not over.

O'BRIEN: I know, that's what I was thinking. HEMMER: It could be a huge development in the fight against AIDS. Are doctors now on the verge of a eradicating the disease in U.S. infants? We'll page the good doctor on that in a moment, here.

O'BRIEN: Also a bet that safety sells. One carmaker ready to make a popular safety option standard on all its vehicles.

HEMMER: Andy's ahead, he's "Minding Your Business" on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. We are paging Dr. Gupta this morning about a potential milestone in the treatment of AIDS. U.S. health officials could be on the verge of eliminating AIDS in infants.

Sanjay joins us from the CNN Center with details. Hey, Sanjay, good morning to you. Very good news, obviously.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. Yes, really good news when it comes to fighting pediatric AIDS. Public health officials that we spoke to say this is a long time coming, now on the verge of completely eliminating AIDS in infants in the United States. One of the big public health advances.

Let me give you some context, here, in terms of the numbers, what we're talking about. Back in 1990, about 2,000 babies were born HIV- positive. A couple years ago, now, 200 babies. Only those numbers dropping even more. This is all coming from the National Institutes of Health. So those are those numbers there.

Now, why has this been happening? What is the success story here? A lot of it is just the public health service and what they've been able to do in terms of getting women counseled and getting women tested even before they come become pregnant. Also, part of that, medications, the medications have become much better, including a medication called AZT. This is a good medication, specifically at preventing maternal-to-child transmission. And basically, the most important thing, just getting mothers to know their HIV status even before they become pregnant. That's what you sort of point at in terms of the success stories -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: I know that prenatal testing in pregnant women is mandatory here in New York, at least. Is that the case everywhere and has that played a very big role in making women know whether or not they have HIV when they're pregnant?

GUPTA: Yes, it's not mandatory in many places around the country, still. Certainly not in many places around the world. First of all, when it comes to pediatric AIDS, infant AIDS, maternal-to- child transmission, either during the birthing process, during delivery, during breastfeeding, accounts for about 91 percent of all pediatric AIDS cases. So really important to focus on maternal-child transmission. Again, not mandatory in many places around the country.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she does get blood tests and AIDS tests are part of that. A woman can refuse it instead of having to choose it. The drugs really are part of this, though. Important to point out that if a woman does get no treatment at all, the risk of transmitting this virus to their child, 25 percent. One in four. With one drug, AZT, I already mentioned, about eight percent. Two drugs, four percent. The full AIDS cocktails that we hear so much about, one percent. And if you also do caesarean section on top of that, less than one percent.

These drugs can be very toxic and that's been part of the rate- limiting step in getting women treated. Most women won't get treated with these medications 'til about 14 weeks -- the 14th week of pregnancy, to try and prevent the toxic effects being transmitted to the fetus -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay. Some good news, hopefully, that maybe will lead the way in other good news about AIDS and HIV. Tomorrow, "New You Revolution," what's going on?

GUPTA: That's right, Soledad. We're going to follow our five participants, as you've been hearing about. We're going to focus on Harold Fricker tomorrow. He loves to run, both indoors and out, and Harold has been exercising a lot, and he's also been telling us about it in his "New You Revolution" journal.

Some of the things he shared with us, important points, his trainer has told him to stop running, and to walk instead. We'll explain why. He's also been keeping his meals to 500 calories per meal, per day. We'll tell you how many he's eating. And Harold is trying to get more sleep, which can be really important in terms of losing weight.

Of course all of you can follow our "New You" participants' progress and their journals by logging on to CNN.com/am.

So it should be kind of fun tomorrow, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: No question about it. We look forward to that tomorrow.

Sanjay, thanks.

HEMMER: And Harold is a character, too.

Crooks may have a cheap new way to bypass the security on millions of cars. Is yours one of them. Andy checks that out, "Minding Your Business," right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right, welcome book, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Cash incentives losing their power to attract buyers, so General Motors is betting that safety sells.

Andy Serwer's here "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you. Safety sells. It's true, isn't it? You've got this thing, the Onstar system.

CAFFERTY: It's pretty cool actually, if you get in trouble.

SERWER: It is cool.

Let's talk about CNN is confirming this morning that Metlife is buying Travelers Life from Citigroup for $11.5 billion, a big deal on Wall Street. That's helping to boost stock futures. That and the Iraqi election that went pretty smoothly. Optimism over that.

Last week, the markets up just a smidge so we're looking for a big -- here's the smidge. That's an official smidge. That's why we're looking for a big boost today, the last trading day of January.

Yes, GM is going to put Onstar into all of its models as of 2010. You'll still have to pay for it. The way Onstar works, your first year is free, and then it's $16.95 a month after that.

One thing I didn't know about this, though, did you know they have remote unlocking?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

SERWER: I didn't know about that. Boy, what a cool thing that is.

CAFFERTY: The problem is if you're locked out of your car, how do you get to the Onstar operator?

SERWER: I need my glasses to find my glasses?

CAFFERTY: Yes, some button on the rearview mirror thing. So if you're locked out...

SERWER: Well, you've got the little puppy in it to hit it. You know those ads. Come on, puppy.

CAFFERTY: You can get an enhanced Onstar service, too, where they have, like, a concierge make restaurant reservations, hotel, the whole deal.

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: A couple other car stories this morning, Jack. Researchers at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore have cracked the vaunted security system, the chip key, that new key that you put in. It's actually one of those radio frequency things. It's supposed to be impenetrable. Guess what? It's penetrable. It's made by Texas Instruments. They're going to be doing some head scratching down there.

And then finally, there's a new ad campaign out this morning, warning consumers about the dangers of SUVs. The state attorney generals in a bunch of states getting together and cooking this campaign up. A big settlement with Ford.

Let's see what this guy looks like. Do we have him? His name is SUV. He's a hairy beast. It's from the Web site. Look at this.

CAFFERTY: That's cute.

O'BRIEN: What's the point?

SERWER: I'm not sure what the heck that is, Soledad.

The point here, though, it's supposed to make you be more safety conscious when you drive. Does that do it to you?

CAFFERTY: Whatever. Thank you, sir.

SERWER: You're welcome.

CAFFERTY: A top New York judge -- time for the "File." A New York judge says divorce settlements leave men with a smaller share of the money than women. I can attest to these findings myself actually. In a "New York Law Journal" report -- that was a long time ago -- New York court of appeals Judge Robert Smith suggests courts aren't always gender neutral, and that the marriage contract is often skewed in favor of the women. In divorce cases involving working women and stay-at-home husbands, Smith says he thinks men still don't get their faire share of the loot.

The National Organization for Women thinks this is all caca, and says Judge Smith is, quote, "out of touch with the real families. "

Need to stay in touch with your dog 24/7. A company has developed a mobile phone for your dog. It will go on sale later this year. It's called Pet Cell. It's a bone-shape device that will fit on your dog's collar. And this way, you can talk to the dog from your own cell phone, further annoying people around you and raising questions about your mental competence. You can also call for help from the pet's phone. Pet Cell can be even equipped with a GPS device, so if the little sucker run as away, you can track him down and bring him back. That's assuming you want him back.

SERWER: Jump right in the Cadillac.

CAFFERTY: A message of peace. These are cute pictures. A message of peace that just didn't want to go away. Pope John Paul II addressing a crowd of several thousand young people from an Italian Catholic organization yesterday to mark January as a month to promote peace. Two kids, sitting with the pope in the Vatican window, released two white doves. You see them there on the ledge.

At first, they refused to fly away. So the pope got involved. He launched one of the doves himself. Still no luck. The little sucker came right back, getting a laugh out of the pope. And eventually, the symbols of peace did take off, but returned quickly after a quick cruise around St. Peter's Square. Great pictures. This man is 87, is he, in poor health, but look at the smile. Apparently, it was just too cold to be flying around outside in St. Peters yesterday.

O'BRIEN: The two kids must have been in hysterics, because that would be so funny.

SERWER: Or the birds know that he's the man.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: We're not going anywhere.

CAFFERTY: Doesn't get any better than this.

O'BRIEN: Great pictures.

All right, Jack, thanks.

O'BRIEN: Today's top stories are ahead in just a moment.

Also, now that the Iraq election is over, when will U.S. troops come home? A look at that ahead, on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired January 31, 2005 - 08:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. In the wake of the elections in Iraq, one view says Iraq has just undergone a seismic political shift. Another view, though, says, what's different about Iraq today than it was on Saturday? Kamber and May have got opposite sides in the Iraqi election, just ahead.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, there's a significant story out of California today. How are the lawyers going to pick a jury for the Michael Jackson trial that starts today? After all, most of the jury pool is likely to know, or at least some, of the sordid details. We'll talk to a professional jury consultant about the advice she would give the prosecution and also defense, and we'll get to that.

O'BRIEN: Carol Costello has a look at the headlines this morning. Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news, the death toll is rising from last month's tsunami. Another 5,000 victims were discovered in Indonesia earlier today. In the meantime, aid is continuing to trickle in for the survivors of the disaster. A leading United Nations official says nearly 800,000 people in Indonesia's Aceh province alone need food.

British authorities are not saying why one of their military planes went down in Iraq. They say they're not in a position to comment about that. The British government does confirm nine air force personnel and one soldier are missing and presumed dead. They were aboard the Hercules C-130 transport plane, just like the one being shown in this video.

The country's largest not-for-profit managed-care provider says it will stop prescribing Bextra, at least temporarily. Kaiser is waiting for test results showing whether the painkiller is safe. Some researchers have linked Bextra with increased rates of heart attack. This is the first case of doctors deciding to stop prescribing a drug already approved by the FDA.

Sunday, that's the night that the lights went out in Georgia. At least 50,000 still without power in parts of that state. Some 300,000 homes and businesses going out electricity this weekend after one brutal ice storm. It also slowed down traffic on the roadways. We'll get the latest check of the weather just with Chad just ahead. I think they're in for the big meltdown now. O'BRIEN: So it will be flooding. Good news, bad news, right?

COSTELLO: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, thank you very much.

Well, the voices of millions of Iraqis have been heard following the nation's first free election in half a century. The ballots are being counted. The process is being called a success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today the people of Iraq have spoken to the world, and the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East. In great numbers and under great risk, Iraqis have shown their commitment to democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Is Iraq on the road to democracy? From Miami this morning, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber. And in Washington D.C., former RNC communications director Cliff May.

Good morning to you, guys. Nice to see you, as always.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Good morning.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Vic, let's begin with you. This has been called over and over by many people a resounding success. Do you agree with that?

KAMBER: Well, I think George Bush called it a resounding success about three months ago once he announced it was going to happen. It was going to be a success no matter what. The bar was low, because he just wanted to have an election.

Having said that, no, it is a success in the sense people turned out, people voted. It looks like big numbers. In the Sunni area, it was not as great as we'd hoped.

But having said that, martial law existed, heavy military containment in the country.

O'BRIEN: People were dancing and singing in the streets, right?

KAMBER: And 46 died in those same streets with this election. So was it a success that we had an election, yes? Does it change anything in Iraq today? I'm not sure.

O'BRIEN: Cliff, how about a resounding political success for the White House?

MAY: Well, yes. I mean, look, first of all, it is a resounding success for the people of Iraq. I want you to see that I've got my finger inked in solidarity with the freedom fighters and revolutionaries.

O'BRIEN: I was going to say you're not Iraqi, you're not an exile. What are you doing with that?

MAY: I'm in solidarity with them.

O'BRIEN: Gotcha.

MAY: We've not seen an election like this ever in the Arab Middle East. And the people of the Middle East, in the broader Muslim world, they haven't seen elections like this very much. So it is a startling thing to see, and it changes the equation.

Now, the work is not entirely over, by any means. There's still so much more to do. We still have terrorists there, led by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the al Qaeda leader in Iraq. He needs to be defeated. We still have the party of return. That's the old Baathist ruling class. They want to come back. All they are doing, and all they can do and all they have to offer is random killings of innocent people. That's what they're doing there, and they need to be defeated by us and by the Iraqis, hopefully working together. But it's a huge milestone.

KAMBER: No, as Cliff says, the work's not over. I'm suggesting the work hasn't changed. An election brought about an election. We had an election. There will be winners. There'll be losers. The bottom line is no one assumes that the American government is going to turn over power, or can turn over power to that government that's elected. We have no fewer terrorists today than we had yesterday.

O'BRIEN: But they're on their way to drafting a constitution. I mean, many people, even people who did not support the war in Iraq are saying these are the baby steps toward democracy.

KAMBER: Totally agree.

O'BRIEN: What's your definition then of success? Is it American troops out? Is it when it they have a constitution, which they haven't had?

KAMBER: I don't think it's any question it's when it's a stable country and we're not losing lives anymore. And if we have to have peacekeeping forces, they're not U.S. peacekeeping forces, but world peacekeeping forces. You can't call it success when we occupy a country.

O'BRIEN: Cliff, agree with that definition. I mean, to some degree, a lot of Americans really just care about when Americans come home.

MAY: What we're talking about -- well, unfortunately, we are in a war against terrorists and against Islamic fascism around the world. The frontline, obviously, is in Iraq. That's where the most deadly of the al Qaeda leaders, has been living, and that's where he's sending out his suicide bombers, and we still haven't entirely beaten all of the Saddam Hussein loyalists, because when we went in after them, we let a lot of them get away and they have reorganized. We're going to be fighting this war. Victor has to get this through his head. We are going to be fighting a way against Islamic fascism and terrorism for a very long time. I hope it will be over in our lifetime, but you want to avoid the war, Victor. We can't.

(CROSSTALK)

KAMBER: No, Cliff, I understand it. I understand it. I don't believe George Bush understood it. George Bush, on two or three occasions, has claimed it's over, mission accomplished. I wish he'd level with the American people and say this is a three, four, five year, $300 billion, $400 billion, $500 billion effort.

MAY: I'm telling you, it's longer than that. This is a generational war. It's what Jim Woolsey, who was just on this show, and Elliot Cohen (ph) has called "World War IV." World War III having been the Cold War, and there are too many other people like yourself and like Senator Kennedy, who don't seem to understand what is taking place in the world. These people...

O'BRIEN: If democracy, Cliff, is achieved, if the constitution is drafted, in your mind then, that was worth the cost? That was worth the whatever the number ends up being of American lives, and the number of Iraqi lives that have been lost? And I guess that's my question.

MAY: It will be the beginning of a transformation of the Middle East, an area from which terrible terrorism as has emerged and has gone out with its goal, its stated goal, of destroying democracy and destroying the Western world. Unless we clean the swamps, unless we drain them, we will never get rid of the alligators and the mosquitoes. That's what we're doing here. And Iraq is serving as the first model of a transformation. This area of the world cannot be left behind forever in poverty and oppression and have us think it won't affect us. Our oceans do not protect us as they did. We learned that on 9/11.

O'BRIEN: We've got a lot more to talk about. We're out of time. But you know, you talk about a first model. So I wonder if that means you see this happening over and over and over again.

KAMBER: God forbid.

O'BRIEN: What that would mean to U.S. troops as well, but that's something we're going to talk about the next time we meet up.

You guys, as always, thanks a lot -- Bill.

HEMMER: Now to a much different topic, Soledad. In a few hours, attorneys for both sides of the Michael Jackson case will start screening prospective jurors in that molestation case in California. Yesterday, the singer released a video statement about leaks in his case on a Web site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, ENTERTAINER: In the last few weeks, a large amount of ugly, malicious information has been released into the media about me. Apparently, this information was leaked through transcripts in a grand jury proceeding, where neither my lawyers nor I ever appeared. The information is disgusting and false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: That was Michael Jackson from this weekend. Today, from Dallas, jury consultant Nona Dodson is with us. She often works for the defense in criminal and civil cases.

Good morning to you, and welcome.

NONA DODSON, JURY CONSULTANT: Good morning.

HEMMER: Let's start with your strength -- defense attorneys are looking for what kind of man and woman to sit on this jury?

DODSON: Someone who has no bias, or holds no animosity or ill will towards Mr. Jackson, primarily, someone who can come to the jury table with a clean slate, listen to the evidence and decide the case based upon what's presented to them.

HEMMER: How do you find that out through an question-and-answer session in court.

DODSON: Well, they're not allowed to have individual voir dire. They're going to have to visit with these people. They have a good sense of where they are right now based on the questionnaire, because the jurors answered a seven-page questionnaire. So scale questions, more closed-ended questions would be proper, I think, in this case.

HEMMER: What about the prosecution? What are they looking for, Nona?

DODSON I think they're looking for people who have a preconceived or are a preconception of Mr. Jackson. They want people who look at him as odd or strange or difficult, or possibly they bring into the courtroom an attitude that he might possibly be guilty of these charges.

HEMMER: When some suggest that an impartial jury is impossible in this part of California, what do you say to them?

DODSON: I say there's a middle ground in there somewhere. Mr. Jackson is sort of like liver, one either loves it or hates it. There's no middle ground for him. People really like him or they don't like him. And they're trying to find that small percentage of people in that area who have no opinions, or no strong opinions.

HEMMER: What is your best guess, Nona, at this point, about how long a juror in this trial would have to serve?

DODSON: How long a juror would have to serve?

HEMMER: Yes, depending on how long the trial goes.

DODSON: I'm not -- I don't understand your question.

HEMMER: How long will the case last? How much time do you have to give up?

DODSON: A couple of months, six months. I don't know. I mean, I've heard that it's going to be a six-month trial and if so, that's one of the reasons they've opted to -- the judge has opted to give eight alternates, because as you saw in the Scott Peterson trial, alternates become an important part of a long case. And the O.J. Simpson trial, also.

HEMMER: One thing, if Michael Jackson's in court during this trial, what impact does that have on that bank of men and women?

DODSON: I think that he's a curiosity to some. He is a defendant to others. He is a person who's not guilty to some. They're going to be keeping a close eye on him, because they've -- a lot of people, most of these people, have grown up with Michael Jackson. So they want to see the person that's accused of these crimes.

HEMMER: Interesting stuff. Nona Dodson, thanks for your time. Out of Dallas, Texas. We'll speak again. All right -- Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Snowball fight. That was the cry this weekend for thousands in Illinois.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On your mark, get set!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: At least 3,000 people made an attempt to break the world record for the largest snowball fight. Switzerland currently holds that record. Who knew there was a record? With over 2,400 participants. Each snowballer had to pay two bucks to play. And the money is going to go to local Lions Club charities. So if they did 3,000 in Illinois and it's all certified and all that, looks like they could be in it.

HEMMER: Good packing stuff, too, especially if you're not...

O'BRIEN: And look, he has no shirt.

HEMMER: ... wearing your shirt.

O'BRIEN: That's no good. My kids do that, too. It wasn't very good packing snow here in New York, though. No, too fluffy, still.

HEMMER: Well, winter's not over.

O'BRIEN: I know, that's what I was thinking. HEMMER: It could be a huge development in the fight against AIDS. Are doctors now on the verge of a eradicating the disease in U.S. infants? We'll page the good doctor on that in a moment, here.

O'BRIEN: Also a bet that safety sells. One carmaker ready to make a popular safety option standard on all its vehicles.

HEMMER: Andy's ahead, he's "Minding Your Business" on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. We are paging Dr. Gupta this morning about a potential milestone in the treatment of AIDS. U.S. health officials could be on the verge of eliminating AIDS in infants.

Sanjay joins us from the CNN Center with details. Hey, Sanjay, good morning to you. Very good news, obviously.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. Yes, really good news when it comes to fighting pediatric AIDS. Public health officials that we spoke to say this is a long time coming, now on the verge of completely eliminating AIDS in infants in the United States. One of the big public health advances.

Let me give you some context, here, in terms of the numbers, what we're talking about. Back in 1990, about 2,000 babies were born HIV- positive. A couple years ago, now, 200 babies. Only those numbers dropping even more. This is all coming from the National Institutes of Health. So those are those numbers there.

Now, why has this been happening? What is the success story here? A lot of it is just the public health service and what they've been able to do in terms of getting women counseled and getting women tested even before they come become pregnant. Also, part of that, medications, the medications have become much better, including a medication called AZT. This is a good medication, specifically at preventing maternal-to-child transmission. And basically, the most important thing, just getting mothers to know their HIV status even before they become pregnant. That's what you sort of point at in terms of the success stories -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: I know that prenatal testing in pregnant women is mandatory here in New York, at least. Is that the case everywhere and has that played a very big role in making women know whether or not they have HIV when they're pregnant?

GUPTA: Yes, it's not mandatory in many places around the country, still. Certainly not in many places around the world. First of all, when it comes to pediatric AIDS, infant AIDS, maternal-to- child transmission, either during the birthing process, during delivery, during breastfeeding, accounts for about 91 percent of all pediatric AIDS cases. So really important to focus on maternal-child transmission. Again, not mandatory in many places around the country.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she does get blood tests and AIDS tests are part of that. A woman can refuse it instead of having to choose it. The drugs really are part of this, though. Important to point out that if a woman does get no treatment at all, the risk of transmitting this virus to their child, 25 percent. One in four. With one drug, AZT, I already mentioned, about eight percent. Two drugs, four percent. The full AIDS cocktails that we hear so much about, one percent. And if you also do caesarean section on top of that, less than one percent.

These drugs can be very toxic and that's been part of the rate- limiting step in getting women treated. Most women won't get treated with these medications 'til about 14 weeks -- the 14th week of pregnancy, to try and prevent the toxic effects being transmitted to the fetus -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay. Some good news, hopefully, that maybe will lead the way in other good news about AIDS and HIV. Tomorrow, "New You Revolution," what's going on?

GUPTA: That's right, Soledad. We're going to follow our five participants, as you've been hearing about. We're going to focus on Harold Fricker tomorrow. He loves to run, both indoors and out, and Harold has been exercising a lot, and he's also been telling us about it in his "New You Revolution" journal.

Some of the things he shared with us, important points, his trainer has told him to stop running, and to walk instead. We'll explain why. He's also been keeping his meals to 500 calories per meal, per day. We'll tell you how many he's eating. And Harold is trying to get more sleep, which can be really important in terms of losing weight.

Of course all of you can follow our "New You" participants' progress and their journals by logging on to CNN.com/am.

So it should be kind of fun tomorrow, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: No question about it. We look forward to that tomorrow.

Sanjay, thanks.

HEMMER: And Harold is a character, too.

Crooks may have a cheap new way to bypass the security on millions of cars. Is yours one of them. Andy checks that out, "Minding Your Business," right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right, welcome book, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Cash incentives losing their power to attract buyers, so General Motors is betting that safety sells.

Andy Serwer's here "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you. Safety sells. It's true, isn't it? You've got this thing, the Onstar system.

CAFFERTY: It's pretty cool actually, if you get in trouble.

SERWER: It is cool.

Let's talk about CNN is confirming this morning that Metlife is buying Travelers Life from Citigroup for $11.5 billion, a big deal on Wall Street. That's helping to boost stock futures. That and the Iraqi election that went pretty smoothly. Optimism over that.

Last week, the markets up just a smidge so we're looking for a big -- here's the smidge. That's an official smidge. That's why we're looking for a big boost today, the last trading day of January.

Yes, GM is going to put Onstar into all of its models as of 2010. You'll still have to pay for it. The way Onstar works, your first year is free, and then it's $16.95 a month after that.

One thing I didn't know about this, though, did you know they have remote unlocking?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

SERWER: I didn't know about that. Boy, what a cool thing that is.

CAFFERTY: The problem is if you're locked out of your car, how do you get to the Onstar operator?

SERWER: I need my glasses to find my glasses?

CAFFERTY: Yes, some button on the rearview mirror thing. So if you're locked out...

SERWER: Well, you've got the little puppy in it to hit it. You know those ads. Come on, puppy.

CAFFERTY: You can get an enhanced Onstar service, too, where they have, like, a concierge make restaurant reservations, hotel, the whole deal.

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: A couple other car stories this morning, Jack. Researchers at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore have cracked the vaunted security system, the chip key, that new key that you put in. It's actually one of those radio frequency things. It's supposed to be impenetrable. Guess what? It's penetrable. It's made by Texas Instruments. They're going to be doing some head scratching down there.

And then finally, there's a new ad campaign out this morning, warning consumers about the dangers of SUVs. The state attorney generals in a bunch of states getting together and cooking this campaign up. A big settlement with Ford.

Let's see what this guy looks like. Do we have him? His name is SUV. He's a hairy beast. It's from the Web site. Look at this.

CAFFERTY: That's cute.

O'BRIEN: What's the point?

SERWER: I'm not sure what the heck that is, Soledad.

The point here, though, it's supposed to make you be more safety conscious when you drive. Does that do it to you?

CAFFERTY: Whatever. Thank you, sir.

SERWER: You're welcome.

CAFFERTY: A top New York judge -- time for the "File." A New York judge says divorce settlements leave men with a smaller share of the money than women. I can attest to these findings myself actually. In a "New York Law Journal" report -- that was a long time ago -- New York court of appeals Judge Robert Smith suggests courts aren't always gender neutral, and that the marriage contract is often skewed in favor of the women. In divorce cases involving working women and stay-at-home husbands, Smith says he thinks men still don't get their faire share of the loot.

The National Organization for Women thinks this is all caca, and says Judge Smith is, quote, "out of touch with the real families. "

Need to stay in touch with your dog 24/7. A company has developed a mobile phone for your dog. It will go on sale later this year. It's called Pet Cell. It's a bone-shape device that will fit on your dog's collar. And this way, you can talk to the dog from your own cell phone, further annoying people around you and raising questions about your mental competence. You can also call for help from the pet's phone. Pet Cell can be even equipped with a GPS device, so if the little sucker run as away, you can track him down and bring him back. That's assuming you want him back.

SERWER: Jump right in the Cadillac.

CAFFERTY: A message of peace. These are cute pictures. A message of peace that just didn't want to go away. Pope John Paul II addressing a crowd of several thousand young people from an Italian Catholic organization yesterday to mark January as a month to promote peace. Two kids, sitting with the pope in the Vatican window, released two white doves. You see them there on the ledge.

At first, they refused to fly away. So the pope got involved. He launched one of the doves himself. Still no luck. The little sucker came right back, getting a laugh out of the pope. And eventually, the symbols of peace did take off, but returned quickly after a quick cruise around St. Peter's Square. Great pictures. This man is 87, is he, in poor health, but look at the smile. Apparently, it was just too cold to be flying around outside in St. Peters yesterday.

O'BRIEN: The two kids must have been in hysterics, because that would be so funny.

SERWER: Or the birds know that he's the man.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: We're not going anywhere.

CAFFERTY: Doesn't get any better than this.

O'BRIEN: Great pictures.

All right, Jack, thanks.

O'BRIEN: Today's top stories are ahead in just a moment.

Also, now that the Iraq election is over, when will U.S. troops come home? A look at that ahead, on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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