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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Pope Taken to Hospital for Flu; Congress Mulls Military Death Benefit Raise

Aired February 01, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now. An Islamist Web site claims an American soldier has been kidnapped in Iraq and shows a picture. But it's apparently a fake and you won't believe where it comes from.
And Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has just spoken to CNN on the next phase of the war in Iraq.

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): They made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq. Is the government shortchanging their survivors?

What's Congress prepared to do? I'll ask Republican Senator Chuck Hagel.

Dramatic new pictures of December's tsunami. First the earthquake and then the wall of water.

It was billed as a semester at sea, but hundreds of college students got a lesson they weren't counting on when they went sliding across the deck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not what I signed up for.

BLITZER: And why you won't be seeing this commercial during the Super Bowl.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, February 1, 2005.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: More than 1,400 U.S. troops have died since the United States invaded Iraq. And despite Sunday's Iraqi elections the death toll is expected to grow. Now the U.S. Congress is discussing a plan to raise military death benefits. CNN's Lindsey Arent joining us now live with details -- Lindsey.

LINDSEY ARENT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Every time a U.S. service member is killed in combat, their family gets a check from the government. It's also known as the death gratuity and it's meant to help with immediate losses, but some lawmakers complain the amount just simply too small and are looking to give the death benefit an overhaul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): How much should the government compensate the family of a service member killed in combat?

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: This paltry sum of the death of the death benefit...

ARENT: That's the question the Senate armed services committee mulled over on Capitol Hill. Under pressure from Congress, the Bush administration unveiled a plan to increase death benefits to service members killed in war zones. The plan would be part of the president's new budget proposal he submits to Congress next week.

LIEBERMAN: Any man or woman good enough to risk their lives in defense of our country ought to know that if they are called upon to make the ultimate sacrifice, that they can be confident their families will be well taken care of.

ARENT: Among other benefits, survivors currently receive an immediate one-time tax-free payment of $12,420. Under the new proposal that would grow to $100,000. Optional life insurance coverage would also rise from $250,000 to $400,000 for those killed in a designated combat zone. Under the plan, all troops would get a life insurance benefit with the Pentagon picking up the tab for premiums.

But military advocates are concerned the proposal would exclude troops not killed in combat, for example in training accidents.

NORBERT RYAN, JR., MILITARY OFFICERS ASSN. OF AMERICA: This death gratuity ought to cover all of our men and women serving. Because there are lots of other dangerous places they're serving besides Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): Now if the proposal is passed in its current form, surviving families of U.S. troops killed in a designated combat zone would receive at least $250,000 in government benefits. The changes would be retroactive to any service member killed in combat since October, 2001 -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's when the U.S. launched the invasion of Afghanistan. Lindsey Arent, thanks very much for that.

Just a short time ago, CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre had a chance to speak with the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Jamie is standing by live at the Pentagon with details on that conversation -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, in his first public comments since Sunday's historic elections in Iraq Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told CNN that he has nothing but praise for the courage of the Iraqi people, and he refused to be pinned down on the question of how soon U.S. troops might be coming home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Jamie, you know every time somebody has thought it would be convenient to come up with something that they didn't know, and they knew they didn't know -- that is to say, the cost, total cost or the date certain when something's going to happen -- in two, four, six, eight, ten months they look foolish. And it's something of convenience for the moment. I don't do that. We don't do that. We know that it is condition-based. It will depend on how fast the Iraqi people are able to come together as they did on election day, and develop those -- that capacity to provide their own security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: What Rumsfeld would not say publicly, but sources say privately is that the U.S. would like to reducing troop levels by the spring or the summer. Rumsfeld did say he felt the U.S. intervention in Iraq would be proven right by what he called the great sweep of history -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks very much.

They're still counting votes in Iraq today but no results have been released yet. The turnout for Sunday's election has many Iraqis voicing optimism about their future. CNN's Jeff Koinange reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every vote counts. And that's exactly what's going on across Iraq as election officials continue to tally and collate the ballots before sending them on to Baghdad for inclusion in the final results expected within a matter of days.

There are some parts of the country that feel left out of Iraq's new political equation. This is Falluja in the Sunni Triangle long a center of resistance until U.S. forces overran it late last year.

"Honestly, I didn't vote. It doesn't represent us as Falluja people," he says. But even here some locals were surprised by how many ignored calls for a Sunni boycott.

"I wasn't expecting that number of people who entered the polling center and actually voted and that proves peace has come to this city," he says.

And in Baghdad, where the Shia are the majority, Abu Baha'a for one is trying to look beyond sectarian rivalries.

"What we wish from Sunnis and Shiites is that they unite ourselves and build the country together. Nothing more or less," he says. The same message from the largely Shia United Iraqi Alliance, one of the groups expected to do well in the vote.

ABDUL AZIZ AL-HAKIM, UNITED IRAQI ALLIANCE (through translator): We don't want anyone to be marginalized. We want everyone to take part in the writing of the constitution. We will defend the rights of all minorities and of all groups, no matter how small they are.

KOINANGE: One man spreading a very different message is terror suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. In an audiotape reportedly recorded by Zarqawi, he urges Sunnis to resist a Shiite takeover saying "democracy separates God from life and that is forbidden. Democracy allows the establishment of all parties no matter what they represent and it gives them the right to exist and spread their heathenism and corruption."

And the violence that Zarqawi is trying to spread continued in the northern town of Irbil at the home of a Kurdish politician. His two guards noticed the bomb planted outside and tried to defuse it when it exploded them, killing them instantly.

Zarqawi's threats for the most part seem to have fallen on deaf ears as Iraqis continue to display the symbol of their newfound pride, namely the ink-dabbed finger. Many here hoping that that will soon translate into a government that reflects the true makeup of all of Iraq. Jeff Koinange, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Now back to our discussion of military death benefits. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska has introduced legislation that would raise payments to survivors from the current $12,000 to $100,000. He's joining us now live from the Russell Rotunda in the U.S. Capitol.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us. A lot of our viewers are asking a simple question: why has it taken so long to do this? That $12,000 seems like such a modest amount. Sometimes it doesn't even pay for a funeral service.

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Wolf, I think the answer to your question, why is it taking so long, it's like so many things in life. We don't pay attention to these things until a crisis hits or until we are at war. And we are at war so now there has been a, and appropriately so, focus on our soldiers, our men and women in uniform and their families and we are reevaluating the kind of benefits they get.

And I think this is very, very appropriate that we recalibrate all these numbers, not just the death benefit gratuities, but also the life insurance numbers. I have got another bill for the G.I. Bill, other areas where we can help these families. We have to ensure that the sacrifices made by these men and women and their families is worthy of them. And obviously we can't bring a service member back, but we can do things that can help alleviate some of the pressure on these families. BLITZER: What about the argument that if these troops died in the war against terrorism, their families should be compensated very much like the 3,000 individuals' families who died on 9/11? Some of them got millions of dollars in compensation from the federal government.

HAGEL: Well, that is a question, but I think the answer to that, Wolf, is that these men and women who serve their country in uniform understand the risk that they take, and they willingly take those risks. That may not be a good enough argument, but the fact is we are trying to get back to a more appropriate adjustment in these benefits.

And I'm, by the way, not the only one that has introduced legislation. I introduced this bill last year. We didn't have time to get to it, but other colleagues, Democrats, Republicans have introduced legislation this year.

So I think there's a general understanding or appreciation not only on Capitol Hill, but obviously in the administration that this is the right thing to do.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied that the 10,000 U.S. troops who have been wounded in combat, whether in Iraq or Afghanistan since October, 2001, that they're being compensated adequately?

HAGEL: Well, that's another question, Wolf, that we need to address. About half of those, almost 11,000 wounded have been seriously wounded. I go out to Walter Reed and Bethesda once every other week, and spend an hour or so with these soldiers and these are very tough wounds. And so, yes, there is a question that we need to address, because these are men and women that are going to have to live with these wounds the rest of their lives and it's going to be difficult for many of them.

So we will address that as well.

BLITZER: It seems -- and I think a lot of people see these huge numbers that come out of Washington, another $80 billion for the next year to pay for the operations in Afghanistan and in Iraq. The amount of money you need to compensate the dead, the families of the dead and the wounded, relatively modest in the scheme of things. Is that right?

HAGEL: It's very modest, Wolf. And that's one of the things that we'll be looking at as we examine this $80 billion supplemental. This is the third $80 billion emergency spending bill coming up for Iraq here in the last couple of years, so we need to make sure that our men and women and their families are taken care of first. And that means also equipment, that means armament, that means protecting them as best we can, but also their personal lives. Because as I said, their sacrifices must be worthy of who we are as a nation and our policies.

BLITZER: Well said by Senator Chuck Hagel. Thanks very much, Senator, for joining us.

HAGEL: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Claims by a terror group in Iraq that a U.S. soldier is being held hostage, but their proof is apparently fake. You won't believe where the so-called proof is coming from.

Also ahead. We're just getting some brand-new images of one of the world's deadliest disasters, December's earthquake off Sumatra. And the killer waves that followed. We'll bring you the latest numbers as the death toll for the tsunami disaster is revised.

Also this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a 60 footer there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A semester at sea for some students turns into an ocean odyssey. A university ship battered and bruised by monster waves. We'll tell you what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: From the day the earthquake and the tsunami hit south Asia and East Africa on December 26, we've shown you dramatic pictures of the destructive power of the waves and the dramatic effort by thousands to survive. Now, we have never before seen amateur video of the powerful earthquake as it shook the ground and toppled buildings in the Indonesian province of Aceh. And just as terrified residents thought the worst was over, the deadly wall of water appeared. John Irvine reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN IRVINE, ITV NEWS (voice-over): This is a, what, a 9 on the Richter scale, looks and sounds like.

The amateur cameraman was recording nature pulling the trigger.

People here sat down before they fell down.

This mother recited the Koran.

These were bricks neatly stacked in a yard.

Banda Aceh is used to earthquakes and people did seem remarkably calm. Several buildings collapsed, but there was time to hunt for survivors. They did manage to free this woman before the second even more destructive phase of this catastrophe.

Patients taken outside this hospital may have well have thought their ordeal was over, but soon people got wind of something terrible heading their way. They ran for their lives. The massive surge of water carried everything before it, and this is about three miles inland.

Trees, fencing, wooden planking from wrecked homes, the swollen river swept up so much debris, it actually formed an island, a lifesaver for those who could teeter on top. They had to duck under the bridge.

Some were able to scramble onto the riverbank.

The amateur cameraman finished by recording heartbreak in images of survivors and some of the drowned. For 37 days now their numbers have been rising steadily. John Irvine, ITN News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's been some five weeks since the south Asia earthquake and tsunami disaster but the death toll continues to climb. The Indonesian government today raised its death toll to 108,238. The number of missing in Indonesia stands at more than 127,000. That puts the total number of missing and dead over 230,000.

In Sri Lanka, the second hardest-hit country after Indonesia, the death toll is 29,854. More than 5,500 are listed as missing.

In India, the death toll is more than 10,000, with some 5,600 still missing.

And in Thailand, the number of dead is 5,300 with 3,300 missing with all estimates of missing in the region more than a quarter million people may have been killed.

Let me repeat that. With all these estimates of dead and missing, more than a quarter of a million people may have been killed in the aftermath of that tsunami.

A United Nations diplomat tells CNN Secretary General Kofi Annan has selected the former U.S. president Bill Clinton as the U.N. point man for tsunami reconstruction in south Asia. A United Nations spokesman says Annan also wants the special envoy, that would be Bill Clinton, to help resolve rebel conflicts in the two hardest-hit countries, Indonesia and Sri Lanka. A full mission ahead for Bill Clinton.

A hot topic at the top of the president's domestic agenda...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're a 20- year-old person and you look at the math, you realize that you will inherit a bankrupt system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Reform and reality, is the nation's Social Security system already in crisis? We'll take a closer look. Also ahead...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA BUSH: The president will talk about confronting problems that he feels like it's his responsibility and the responsibility of elected officials to confront.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A State of the Union preview. The first lady, Laura Bush, gives us a sneak peek at what the president will include in his speech tomorrow night.

And later, pulled from the lineup before the big game, why Anheuser-Busch has decided not to run a controversial Bud Light commercial during the Super Bowl. We'll tell you what's going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Look for President Bush to put the spotlight on Social Security in his State of the Union Address to the nation tomorrow night. He says the system is in crisis and needs immediate fixing, but many Democrats disagree. So what's the real status? CNN's economics correspondent Kathleen Hays joining us now. She's looked into this story -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, accountability, integrity, reliability, these are the watch words of the GAO or Government Accountability Office, words Dave Walker takes very seriously.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): If anyone can be trusted on the Social Security debate, it should be Dave Walker. The first President Bush made him a Social Security trustee in 1990. Then the Clinton White House appointed him comptroller general in 1998. That makes him the nation's chief accountant as head of the Government Accountability Office, the nonpartisan agency that oversees how the federal government spends taxpayer's money and how it administers programs like Social Security.

Walker says the program is on a collision course with demographics.

DAVID WALKER, COMPTROLLER GENERAL: In 1950 there were approximately 16 people paying into Social Security for every person drawing benefits. Today it's about 3.3 persons for every person drawing benefits. And in the next 20 to 25 years, it's going to go down to two persons for every person drawing benefits.

HAYS: Fewer people entering the workforce and more people going into retirement. Not a problem yet, but in 13 years, Social Security hits the tip of the demographic iceberg. WALKER: Starting in 2018, we're going to turn negative cash flow, which means that there will be more money paid out in that year than we're taking in. Right now we're taking in more than we're paying out. And so we'll start to feel the crunch at that point in time.

HAYS: That means the government will have to find more cash to plug the financial hole: raise taxes, cut spending on other programs, or borrow money and make the big budget deficit even bigger.

President Bush paints a dire picture.

BUSH: If you're a 20-year-old person and you look at the math, you realize that you will inherit a bankrupt system.

HAYS: By mid-century, if Congress doesn't act...

(on camera): Are younger workers in danger of getting to retirement and finding there's not enough money left to pay their benefits?

WALKER: There will be money in Social Security. The question is how much money? Even when the trust fund runs dry, 2042, there will be about 73 cents in revenue for every dollar of promised benefits.

HAYS (voice-over): That would leave people with just three- fourths of their monthly benefits. Right now the average monthly Social Security payment is about $872, three-fourths of that is just $636. That's a 27 percent cut.

Walker says it would be a mistake to wait until mid-century to act.

WALKER: Especially when we face large and growing budget deficits that are driven largely by known demographic trends and rising healthcare costs. Time is working against us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAYS: As for the personal investment accounts the president has championed, Walker says personal accounts alone will not solve Social Security's problems or eliminate the need to look at other changes like higher taxes or a later retirement age, but he says they should be considered as part of any overall reform package, especially for younger people -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kathleen Hays, reporting from New York, thanks for that explanation. Appreciate it very much. And we'll have much more on the topic of Social Security coming up on this program tomorrow.

We'll meet a man opposed to the president's proposed changes, who says that if a portion of his Social Security had been invested in the stock market, he would be sunk right now. Our senior correspondent Allan Chernoff will have that story for us tomorrow on this program.

As we mentioned, tomorrow night President Bush delivers his State of the Union Address, but ahead of the speech, the first lady, Laura Bush, is speaking out herself. Mrs. Bush sat down today with our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley for a wide-ranging interview and she gave a preview of part of her husband's speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA BUSH: The president will talk about confronting problems that he feels like it's his responsibility and the responsibility of elected officials to confront, and certainly one of those is Social Security, to figure out what we can do, have everybody in the United States Congress and the president can come together to make sure that Social Security will be viable in the future, when all of us who are Baby Boomers are on Social Security and then there are fewer at that point, younger workers who are putting money into Social Security.

So he'll talk about that. He'll also talk about an issue that I'm very interested in, and that's what we can do for our teenagers to make sure they can have successful lives. The No Child Left Behind Act that was passed during his first term, really is directed at young children, making sure that children learn to read by the third grade, but there are a lot of ways we can intervene in an older child's life to make sure they also know how to read and that they can have a successful life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The first lady speaking with our Candy Crowley earlier today.

One day after fainting at an event in New York, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton made a far less dramatic appearance at a Senate hearing on Capitol Hill. She says she's over the 24-hour stomach bug that leveled her yesterday in Buffalo. She was speaking as a women's group fund-raiser when she fainted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHANIE PINCUS, SAW CLINTON FAINT: I can't really say anything about the particular treatment. She clearly had consulted with physicians beforehand. She knew she wasn't feeling well. She came in. She said she wasn't feeling well. She felt hot, and had stepped out to remove some of her heavier clothing, and then it was just too much for her to continue. She was sitting down and said she just couldn't go on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Dr. Pincus was there at the time. After being checked by a doctor, Clinton resumed her schedule before returning to Washington yesterday.

As senators discuss raising military death benefits for families who have lost loved ones in combat, some military families are struggling just to cover funeral expenses. When we come back, I'll talk to one widow who says she feels like a victim of her own country. And later, they signed up for an adventure at sea and got a lot more than they bargained for. Students getting the lesson of a lifetime. Their story, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're just getting this story in to CNN. The Italian News Agency ANSA being quoted by the Reuters News Agency. Pope John Paul II, it says has been taken to the hospital suffering from the flu, officials saying according to ANSA, the Italian news agency, that this is being done as an abundance of precaution. The pope fell ill with influenza on Sunday, has been forced over the past day or tow to cancel all of his engagements.

The Polish-born 84-year-old pontiff has been not been feeling well. No official world yet from the Vatican. We're checking this story out for our viewers. But, once again, the Italian news media, specifically the news agency ANSA, reporting that Pope John Paul II has been taken to the hospital suffering from the flu. We'll get some more information. We'll get in touch with Alessio Vinci, our Rome bureau chief, shortly, get some more on this.

But let's move on to our top story right now, a move in the U.S. Congress to raise military death benefits.

Chelle Pokorney's husband died in Iraq almost two years ago. Now she's become a spokeswoman for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund.

She's joining us now live with her daughter from New York.

Our condolences to you, Chelle. Thanks very much for joining us.

First of all, tell us about your husband. When and how did he get killed?

CHELLE POKORNEY, WIFE OF KILLED U.S. SOLDIER: Fred was killed March 23 of 2003. It was the fourth day of the war. He was going in to help with the efforts and was taken -- his life was taken by the Iraqis.

BLITZER: And what happened to you as a result? You got some military death benefits. What did that amount to?

POKORNEY: Initially, they gave us a $6,000 gratuity, that half of that was taxable. And with help, with more support, that was doubled and given to us at a later time.

But from the time I lost him until now, I'm still trying to figure out the benefits that are entitled to us as military families.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Why is it so complicated? You would think that there's a process, a formula in place that would try to deal with this as quickly and as efficiently with you as possible. POKORNEY: It's just the way the paperwork is at this time. That's why we do what we do, is trying to help the families to navigate through this paperwork, because there's a lot of paperwork. And it takes a lot of time, especially when you're trying to grieve the loss of a loved one and your best friend and the father of your child.

BLITZER: Did you finally get the $12,000, what they call the death benefit gratuity? Did that finally come through?

POKORNEY: Yes, they retroacted that back, yes.

BLITZER: And what about the insurance?

POKORNEY: Yes. The death -- the term life insurance my husband had opted to purchase, but many families opted not to because of the cost each month, and they did not receive that $250,000.

BLITZER: What's your reaction to what's happening in the U.S. Congress now, an effort to dramatically increase those funds?

POKORNEY: I'm excited. I'm hopeful. And I'm thankful to the American public and Congress is going to take the time to take this into consideration, because it would make a difference in my life and Taylor's and all the families who have lost a loved one.

BLITZER: Tell us what the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund does.

POKORNEY: What the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund does, we give -- 100 percent of all money donated by the American public goes directly to survives spouses and families who have lost a loved one in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We give $11,000 to the dependent surviving spouses and $5,000 to each child. And we don't ask for any paperwork. It will help for immediate cost for the families.

BLITZER: Chelle Pokorney, good luck to you. Good luck to Taylor. Our hearts go out to you for...

POKORNEY: Thanks, Wolf.

Can I say one more one thing? If people would like to learn one more thing about -- they can go to our Web site, www.fallenheroesfund.org. Thank you.

BLITZER: OK. Well, that's fine. Thank you. Appreciate it very much.

POKORNEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: Let's go to Alessio Vinci. We have him on the phone right now, our Rome correspondent.

What can you tell you about the condition of the pontiff?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, CNN has just confirmed that Pope John Paul II, who is suffering from a bout of flu, has been taken to the Gemelli Hospital within the last few hours. We have got confirmation from the Vatican press office.

Father Chiro Bamadattimi at that office is telling us that there is no cause for alarm, that this is a precautionary measure, but nevertheless Pope John Paul II has at this time been taken to the Gemelli Hospital for further medical tests. The pope has been suffering for the last few days of a -- what the Vatican has described as a mild influenza, and therefore now the Vatican is confirming to CNN that Pope John Paul II has been admitted to the Gemelli Hospital here in Rome, Wolf.

BLITZER: Alessio, when we saw that picture of him and heard his voice on Sunday, I believe that was the last time we saw and heard him. He's been very frail in recent months and years, as you well know. You cover him full time. He seemed in pretty bad shape Sunday, but give me your impression.

VINCI: Well, my impress, Wolf has been that, in recent months, the pope, although he is ailing and suffers from a series of ailments, including Parkinson's disease, he has been looking and sounding quite remarkably well considering his age and all his ailments.

That said, last Sunday, which was the last time that we saw the pope publicly, he did speak with a hoarse voice, but his spirit looked extremely high. It was clear that his condition was something out of the extraordinary, if you want. His voice was very hoarse, but, again, his spirit looked very up, even joking at some point when releasing two doves out of his office. And those two doves went back into his window, as opposed to flying away.

And he looked like he almost kicked one. He looked like he was very aware of what was going on around him, so the only problem seemed to be that he only had this flu, which is what the Vatican has been telling us for the last few days.

Now, of course, it is quite an extraordinary precaution, to take the pope to the Gemelli Hospital. He has been going there regularly for checks, for medical checks. But the last time he's been admitted -- quote, unquote -- "urgently" was when he had to go through surgery. So, one could speculate, if you want, at this time that this may be just a mild flu, but, of course, a mild flu in an 84-year-old pontiff is obviously something that could, you know, perhaps hide some complications, perhaps hide something more serious.

Therefore, the decision has been taken probably by the physicians assisting the pontiff that he had to be taken to the hospital perhaps for further checks.

BLITZER: Alessio, it's now approaching midnight in Rome, where you are. Do we know what time of the evening the pope was taken to the hospital?

VINCI: No, we don't, really. This information came to us first, was reported by the Italian news agencies, without any specific source, if you want. We were able to confirm it directly with one of the officials at the press office within the last few minutes. And so far, he did not have the specifics of when exactly the pope was admitted, but possibly within the last few hours for sure.

BLITZER: If the pope has to spend an extended stay in the hospital right now for some treatment, who in effect takes over on a day-to-day basis?

VINCI: Well, you know, the pope, ever since -- in the last few years, he's pretty much handed over the day-to-day operation of the running of the Catholic Church to his cardinals, to the various offices running the Catholic Church. The pope has -- although he has the last say on just about that anything within the Vatican and in the Catholic Church, the day-to-day operations, if you want, of the church is left to cardinals and to the various congregations that form the Roman Curia.

So it is quite easy to speculate here one more time that the operations of the Vatican, the day-to-day operations of the Vatican, will not suffer particularly from the fact that the pope is in a hospital, rather than in his study at the Vatican.

BLITZER: All right, Alessio, I want you to stand by.

John Allen is also joining us on the phone now from Rome. John Allen is our Vatican analyst.

You've been looking into this story. John, what have you heard?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, it's very preliminary at this stage. We know that the pope has been taken to Rome's Gemelli Hospital.

One source that I spoke to a few moments ago was indicating that it might have been a respiratory problem that brought this on. Of course, the pope's been down with the flu the last couple of days. And his public schedule has been cleared for the rest of this week. But, as I say, these reports are very preliminary. And all we know at this stage is that he's at Gemelli Hospital and getting some kind of medical attention there.

BLITZER: This is rather unusual, though. Even though the pope has been frail, he's been ailing over these past several years, how unusual is it for him to be in effect taken to the hospital, the emergency room, if you will, in this kind of condition?

ALLEN: It's quite unusual, though not unprecedented.

There have been a few other occasions over the course of his pontificate where he's been taken to Gemelli. But normally speaking, this sort of thing would not happen. And therefore it indicates that an unforeseen -- particularly the fact this is happening at -- we're getting close to midnight Roman time. Obviously, this is not something that his doctors anticipated, which would tell us that something relatively dramatic has happened. On the other hand, we should also issue a huge note of caution, which is that this is a man who has outlived many predictions of his demise over the years. And there's no indication, at least earlier today, there was no indication there was anything particularly dramatic going on.

In fact, earlier today, the Vatican was working on scheduling a meeting with the new U.S. secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, for early next week with the pope. So, it certainly is worth taking a note of caution in all this. On the other hand, Wolf, it is unusual.

BLITZER: When you saw the pictures from last Sunday of the pope when he was at that window and you heard that voice of his, you've been watching and you've been covering him for a long time, what did you think?

ALLEN: Well, I was actually in the square when the pope was giving his Angelus address last Sunday.

And I would say, two things struck me. One, the voice was awful. It was -- it was much rockier and raspier than it has been even in recent experience. On the other hand, I would say, physically, you know, he didn't look all that bad. In fact, there was this sort of moment of comedy there when the pope was trying to release a peace dove into the air and the doves kept trying to fly back into the window, and the pope was trying to bat it out. And it was all sort of comical.

And so, I have to say, I was not overly alarmed at the way he appeared. And it is still basically the winter season here. Lots of Italians have the flu, so I haven't found anything particularly surprising about the fact that he came down with it either.

On the other hand, again, at 84 years of age, and with all of the health problems he's had, dating back to the assassination attempt in '81, a very difficult hip replacement surgery in '94, and all of the burdens of the office that he carries, it certainly is worth paying attention to how things develop in the next few hours.

BLITZER: All right, I want you to stand by, John. And Alessio is standing by.

We have "TIME"'s Rome bureau chief, Jeff Israely, joining us as well.

Jeff, what can you add?

JEFF ISRAELY, ROME BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME": Well, the information is quite limited. The Vatican has been quite quick about keeping us informed these past three days, told us right away Monday that the pope would be canceling his regular work duties Monday with a mild case of the flu.

Earlier this morning, they reported to us that today's activities, as well as tomorrow's general audience would be canceled, again saying that the flu was not serious, that he did not have a recurrence of that fever that he had had Sunday.

And this evening, as soon as he was brought to the hospital, the word had gotten out that he was brought there. Again, there's no sign that it is anything other than a case of a flu, a flu that has been going around Rome, going around Italy the past two or three weeks.

But, again, the pope is an elderly man, 84, and has been has been -- has had nine operations over the course of his lifetime, an assassination attempt. And any time a man in that condition is -- faces any kind of illness, there's concern.

BLITZER: Jeff, what do you know, if you do know anything, about the Gemelli Hospital, where he's been taken?

ISRAELY: Well, it's the pope's hospital of choice. It's where he's undergone just about all of the surgeries, where his team of doctors works. And it's located in a northern neighborhood of Rome called Monte Mario.

And, of course, the pope -- there is a team of doctors that checks regularly on the pope. And they are probably just about all there at this time checking on his condition.

BLITZER: We were told he has Parkinson's disease as well, and he suffers from some other chronic ailments. What else do you know? What other problems, health problems does she have?

ISRAELY: Well, he does -- actually, I spoke just last week with a senior Vatican official who has regular contact with the pope and who described the pope as a man with no life-threatening conditions. He has no sign of any kind of cancer.

He has what this official described as a strong heart. He still flies on helicopters and still keeps up a regular work schedule. With that said, he does suffer from Parkinson's, which is a debilitating degenerative disease. And as I said before, he is weakened physically and susceptible to whatever might strike.

And so concern is -- it's a sort of a paradox -- a weak man with a strong heart, and we're all watching closely. It's the first time he's been hospitalized in at least six or seven years . And we're watching closely.

BLITZER: Jeff, I remember at the time last year, when he made those trips to Croatia and Slovakia, a lot of analysts, a lot of observers thought those trips had taken a serious toll on the 84-year- old, then 83-year-old pope. Did you great that sense?

ISRAELY: Well, each trip does take its toll. And his travel schedule has been greatly reduced. He has one trip planned at this point for this summer in Cologne for the World Youth Day in July, but otherwise, nothing on his schedule.

And rumors of trips to Poland, of trips to Ireland, of trips to Mexico have all been bashed. His work schedule has been reduced. And the trips certainly take their toll. The travel and the heavy schedule that he keeps up when he travels abroad, when he wants to see as many of the pilgrims, as many of the faithful as he can, takes its toll.

So he -- but, at the same time, he had shown signs -- he's shown a sort of pattern of ups and downs in which he can look very weak for weeks on end, and then suddenly look strong again. Obviously, he takes medication for the Parkinson's, which doctors have to adjust according to his condition. And his condition varies.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff, I'm going to have you stand by as well, Jeff Israely from "TIME" magazine, the "TIME" magazine bureau chief in Rome, Alessio Vinci, our bureau chief in Rome, is standing by, John Allen, our Vatican analyst.

Once again, recapping, Pope John Paul II has been taken to the Gemelli Hospital in Rome, suffering from the flu. The Vatican has now confirmed this to CNN. We'll continue to watch this story.

We're going to take a quick break, much more on this story, the 84-year-old pontiff in the hospital right now, right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

We're following a disturbing story from Rome. Pope John Paul II has been rushed to a hospital following a couple days of influenza.

Our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, joining us once again on the phone.

Update our viewers, Alessio, what we know right now.

VINCI: What we know so far, Wolf, is that, within the last few hours, Pope John Paul II, who was suffering from a mild influenza, mild flu, has been taken to the Gemelli Hospital here in Rome.

The news was given earlier today by Italian news agencies and was confirmed by a Vatican spokesman to CNN. Indeed, Pope John Paul II has been taken to the hospital, this spokesman telling CNN that there's no real reason for concern at this time, that this hospitalization is primarily a precautionary measure.

As you know, the pope may be suffering just from a mild flu, but he also suffers from a series of other ailments, including Parkinson's disease. And there's some concern that this mild flu could degenerate into something more serious if it's not thoroughly checked.

So, Pope John Paul II has now been admitted to the Gemelli Hospital presumably to go through extensive medical checks to make sure that these mild symptoms of the flu do not hide anything more serious. This is not the first time, of course, that the pope has been admitted to this hospital. He goes there for regular medical checks. And he has been admitted there several times for surgery.

But, as far as I can remember, this is the first time that the pope has been taken to the hospital because of what the Vatican has described as mild symptoms of the flu. So, perhaps there's something more serious behind all this. At this time, we can only speculate.

Vatican officials are playing down this hospitalization, saying it is just a precautionary measure. Nevertheless, we do know that the pope has been feeling quite ill in the last few days. We last saw him on Sunday coming out of the window of his private study in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican.

The pope did speak with a hoarse voice, but he did look in good spirit, however.

BLITZER: All right.

VINCI: And, as a matter of fact, in the last few weeks and months, he's been looking remarkably well, considering the fact that the pope is old, suffers from a series of ailments, as I said, and certainly looks much better, if you want, than, let's say, in 2003, after two very long trips he took to Croatia and Slovakia.

BLITZER: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Alessio, I want you to hold on for a second, because I want to play for our viewers the sound, what the pope said on Sunday, this past Sunday, January 30, when he was frail, when he was already suffering from the flu, and he had this very raspy, hoarse voice. Let's roll that tape right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE JOHN PAUL II: (SPEAKING ITALIAN)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The pope was clearly applauded by those who had gathered.

Alessio, you've heard his voice many times. As you point out, it was hoarse. It sounded a lot worse than in the past.

VINCI: It certainly does, certainly hoarse.

And, again, I must point out, however, Wolf, that while his voice sounded as hoarse as our viewers could tell, what you also have to look is at his body language. And I'm not sure if our tape showed this, but, at some point, the pope was flanked by two young 8-year-old kids. And they all released two doves, a sign of peace, if you want. January is the month that the Vatican sets aside for peace around the world. And these two doves -- actually, one of them refused to fly away and flew back into the Vatican study of the pope. And the pope almost kicked one out, joking with the kids. So he was clearly aware and well aware and understanding of what was going on around him. And although he's no longer able to walk on his own, he needs the assistance of several people to move from one place to the other, in this particular video, set aside his voice. The rest of his body looked responsive, if you want.

So, it didn't look like he was worse than in previous times, in previous occasions. Again, so, for people who don't watch him regularly, on a weekly basis, seeing him like that sounds a lot worse than perhaps for us who actually look at him and watch him and follow him on a regular basis. So, despite his voice, everything else, considering of course his age and his ailments, the pope looks better, if you want, than he has looked in the past.

BLITZER: Is the Vatican generally, Alessio, pretty up front, pretty open, with details of the pope's health?

VINCI: No, of course not.

As a matter of fact, it's been very difficult to get any kind of information regarding the kind of medications, for example, that the pope is taking to cure his Parkinson's disease. As a matter of fact, the Vatican has never officially admitted that the pope suffers from Parkinson's disease. Some Vatican officials and some cardinals privately have gone as far as saying that he suffers from the complications from an illness related to Parkinson's.

But no Vatican official has ever admitted openly that the pope does suffer from, among other things, the Parkinson's disease. So the Vatican has never really been very open in discussing the pope's health, although, of course, in recent years, they could no longer ignore the fact that his hand was shaking, that his body obviously was no longer responding to his mind, if you want.

The pope, with all the people that have met him in private, unanimously, everybody is saying that the pope appears always extremely aware of what is going on around him, understands exactly what is going on, that perhaps his body is not able to follow his mind.

BLITZER: All right. All right, Alessio, Alessio Vinci, our reporter in Rome covering this story.

Pope John Paul II has been taken to a hospital, Gemelli Hospital in Rome, suffering from complications from influenza, from the flu. We'll have much more coverage of this coming up throughout the night.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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Aired February 1, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now. An Islamist Web site claims an American soldier has been kidnapped in Iraq and shows a picture. But it's apparently a fake and you won't believe where it comes from.
And Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has just spoken to CNN on the next phase of the war in Iraq.

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): They made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq. Is the government shortchanging their survivors?

What's Congress prepared to do? I'll ask Republican Senator Chuck Hagel.

Dramatic new pictures of December's tsunami. First the earthquake and then the wall of water.

It was billed as a semester at sea, but hundreds of college students got a lesson they weren't counting on when they went sliding across the deck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not what I signed up for.

BLITZER: And why you won't be seeing this commercial during the Super Bowl.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, February 1, 2005.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: More than 1,400 U.S. troops have died since the United States invaded Iraq. And despite Sunday's Iraqi elections the death toll is expected to grow. Now the U.S. Congress is discussing a plan to raise military death benefits. CNN's Lindsey Arent joining us now live with details -- Lindsey.

LINDSEY ARENT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Every time a U.S. service member is killed in combat, their family gets a check from the government. It's also known as the death gratuity and it's meant to help with immediate losses, but some lawmakers complain the amount just simply too small and are looking to give the death benefit an overhaul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): How much should the government compensate the family of a service member killed in combat?

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: This paltry sum of the death of the death benefit...

ARENT: That's the question the Senate armed services committee mulled over on Capitol Hill. Under pressure from Congress, the Bush administration unveiled a plan to increase death benefits to service members killed in war zones. The plan would be part of the president's new budget proposal he submits to Congress next week.

LIEBERMAN: Any man or woman good enough to risk their lives in defense of our country ought to know that if they are called upon to make the ultimate sacrifice, that they can be confident their families will be well taken care of.

ARENT: Among other benefits, survivors currently receive an immediate one-time tax-free payment of $12,420. Under the new proposal that would grow to $100,000. Optional life insurance coverage would also rise from $250,000 to $400,000 for those killed in a designated combat zone. Under the plan, all troops would get a life insurance benefit with the Pentagon picking up the tab for premiums.

But military advocates are concerned the proposal would exclude troops not killed in combat, for example in training accidents.

NORBERT RYAN, JR., MILITARY OFFICERS ASSN. OF AMERICA: This death gratuity ought to cover all of our men and women serving. Because there are lots of other dangerous places they're serving besides Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): Now if the proposal is passed in its current form, surviving families of U.S. troops killed in a designated combat zone would receive at least $250,000 in government benefits. The changes would be retroactive to any service member killed in combat since October, 2001 -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's when the U.S. launched the invasion of Afghanistan. Lindsey Arent, thanks very much for that.

Just a short time ago, CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre had a chance to speak with the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Jamie is standing by live at the Pentagon with details on that conversation -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, in his first public comments since Sunday's historic elections in Iraq Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told CNN that he has nothing but praise for the courage of the Iraqi people, and he refused to be pinned down on the question of how soon U.S. troops might be coming home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Jamie, you know every time somebody has thought it would be convenient to come up with something that they didn't know, and they knew they didn't know -- that is to say, the cost, total cost or the date certain when something's going to happen -- in two, four, six, eight, ten months they look foolish. And it's something of convenience for the moment. I don't do that. We don't do that. We know that it is condition-based. It will depend on how fast the Iraqi people are able to come together as they did on election day, and develop those -- that capacity to provide their own security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: What Rumsfeld would not say publicly, but sources say privately is that the U.S. would like to reducing troop levels by the spring or the summer. Rumsfeld did say he felt the U.S. intervention in Iraq would be proven right by what he called the great sweep of history -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks very much.

They're still counting votes in Iraq today but no results have been released yet. The turnout for Sunday's election has many Iraqis voicing optimism about their future. CNN's Jeff Koinange reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every vote counts. And that's exactly what's going on across Iraq as election officials continue to tally and collate the ballots before sending them on to Baghdad for inclusion in the final results expected within a matter of days.

There are some parts of the country that feel left out of Iraq's new political equation. This is Falluja in the Sunni Triangle long a center of resistance until U.S. forces overran it late last year.

"Honestly, I didn't vote. It doesn't represent us as Falluja people," he says. But even here some locals were surprised by how many ignored calls for a Sunni boycott.

"I wasn't expecting that number of people who entered the polling center and actually voted and that proves peace has come to this city," he says.

And in Baghdad, where the Shia are the majority, Abu Baha'a for one is trying to look beyond sectarian rivalries.

"What we wish from Sunnis and Shiites is that they unite ourselves and build the country together. Nothing more or less," he says. The same message from the largely Shia United Iraqi Alliance, one of the groups expected to do well in the vote.

ABDUL AZIZ AL-HAKIM, UNITED IRAQI ALLIANCE (through translator): We don't want anyone to be marginalized. We want everyone to take part in the writing of the constitution. We will defend the rights of all minorities and of all groups, no matter how small they are.

KOINANGE: One man spreading a very different message is terror suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. In an audiotape reportedly recorded by Zarqawi, he urges Sunnis to resist a Shiite takeover saying "democracy separates God from life and that is forbidden. Democracy allows the establishment of all parties no matter what they represent and it gives them the right to exist and spread their heathenism and corruption."

And the violence that Zarqawi is trying to spread continued in the northern town of Irbil at the home of a Kurdish politician. His two guards noticed the bomb planted outside and tried to defuse it when it exploded them, killing them instantly.

Zarqawi's threats for the most part seem to have fallen on deaf ears as Iraqis continue to display the symbol of their newfound pride, namely the ink-dabbed finger. Many here hoping that that will soon translate into a government that reflects the true makeup of all of Iraq. Jeff Koinange, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Now back to our discussion of military death benefits. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska has introduced legislation that would raise payments to survivors from the current $12,000 to $100,000. He's joining us now live from the Russell Rotunda in the U.S. Capitol.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us. A lot of our viewers are asking a simple question: why has it taken so long to do this? That $12,000 seems like such a modest amount. Sometimes it doesn't even pay for a funeral service.

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Wolf, I think the answer to your question, why is it taking so long, it's like so many things in life. We don't pay attention to these things until a crisis hits or until we are at war. And we are at war so now there has been a, and appropriately so, focus on our soldiers, our men and women in uniform and their families and we are reevaluating the kind of benefits they get.

And I think this is very, very appropriate that we recalibrate all these numbers, not just the death benefit gratuities, but also the life insurance numbers. I have got another bill for the G.I. Bill, other areas where we can help these families. We have to ensure that the sacrifices made by these men and women and their families is worthy of them. And obviously we can't bring a service member back, but we can do things that can help alleviate some of the pressure on these families. BLITZER: What about the argument that if these troops died in the war against terrorism, their families should be compensated very much like the 3,000 individuals' families who died on 9/11? Some of them got millions of dollars in compensation from the federal government.

HAGEL: Well, that is a question, but I think the answer to that, Wolf, is that these men and women who serve their country in uniform understand the risk that they take, and they willingly take those risks. That may not be a good enough argument, but the fact is we are trying to get back to a more appropriate adjustment in these benefits.

And I'm, by the way, not the only one that has introduced legislation. I introduced this bill last year. We didn't have time to get to it, but other colleagues, Democrats, Republicans have introduced legislation this year.

So I think there's a general understanding or appreciation not only on Capitol Hill, but obviously in the administration that this is the right thing to do.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied that the 10,000 U.S. troops who have been wounded in combat, whether in Iraq or Afghanistan since October, 2001, that they're being compensated adequately?

HAGEL: Well, that's another question, Wolf, that we need to address. About half of those, almost 11,000 wounded have been seriously wounded. I go out to Walter Reed and Bethesda once every other week, and spend an hour or so with these soldiers and these are very tough wounds. And so, yes, there is a question that we need to address, because these are men and women that are going to have to live with these wounds the rest of their lives and it's going to be difficult for many of them.

So we will address that as well.

BLITZER: It seems -- and I think a lot of people see these huge numbers that come out of Washington, another $80 billion for the next year to pay for the operations in Afghanistan and in Iraq. The amount of money you need to compensate the dead, the families of the dead and the wounded, relatively modest in the scheme of things. Is that right?

HAGEL: It's very modest, Wolf. And that's one of the things that we'll be looking at as we examine this $80 billion supplemental. This is the third $80 billion emergency spending bill coming up for Iraq here in the last couple of years, so we need to make sure that our men and women and their families are taken care of first. And that means also equipment, that means armament, that means protecting them as best we can, but also their personal lives. Because as I said, their sacrifices must be worthy of who we are as a nation and our policies.

BLITZER: Well said by Senator Chuck Hagel. Thanks very much, Senator, for joining us.

HAGEL: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Claims by a terror group in Iraq that a U.S. soldier is being held hostage, but their proof is apparently fake. You won't believe where the so-called proof is coming from.

Also ahead. We're just getting some brand-new images of one of the world's deadliest disasters, December's earthquake off Sumatra. And the killer waves that followed. We'll bring you the latest numbers as the death toll for the tsunami disaster is revised.

Also this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a 60 footer there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A semester at sea for some students turns into an ocean odyssey. A university ship battered and bruised by monster waves. We'll tell you what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: From the day the earthquake and the tsunami hit south Asia and East Africa on December 26, we've shown you dramatic pictures of the destructive power of the waves and the dramatic effort by thousands to survive. Now, we have never before seen amateur video of the powerful earthquake as it shook the ground and toppled buildings in the Indonesian province of Aceh. And just as terrified residents thought the worst was over, the deadly wall of water appeared. John Irvine reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN IRVINE, ITV NEWS (voice-over): This is a, what, a 9 on the Richter scale, looks and sounds like.

The amateur cameraman was recording nature pulling the trigger.

People here sat down before they fell down.

This mother recited the Koran.

These were bricks neatly stacked in a yard.

Banda Aceh is used to earthquakes and people did seem remarkably calm. Several buildings collapsed, but there was time to hunt for survivors. They did manage to free this woman before the second even more destructive phase of this catastrophe.

Patients taken outside this hospital may have well have thought their ordeal was over, but soon people got wind of something terrible heading their way. They ran for their lives. The massive surge of water carried everything before it, and this is about three miles inland.

Trees, fencing, wooden planking from wrecked homes, the swollen river swept up so much debris, it actually formed an island, a lifesaver for those who could teeter on top. They had to duck under the bridge.

Some were able to scramble onto the riverbank.

The amateur cameraman finished by recording heartbreak in images of survivors and some of the drowned. For 37 days now their numbers have been rising steadily. John Irvine, ITN News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's been some five weeks since the south Asia earthquake and tsunami disaster but the death toll continues to climb. The Indonesian government today raised its death toll to 108,238. The number of missing in Indonesia stands at more than 127,000. That puts the total number of missing and dead over 230,000.

In Sri Lanka, the second hardest-hit country after Indonesia, the death toll is 29,854. More than 5,500 are listed as missing.

In India, the death toll is more than 10,000, with some 5,600 still missing.

And in Thailand, the number of dead is 5,300 with 3,300 missing with all estimates of missing in the region more than a quarter million people may have been killed.

Let me repeat that. With all these estimates of dead and missing, more than a quarter of a million people may have been killed in the aftermath of that tsunami.

A United Nations diplomat tells CNN Secretary General Kofi Annan has selected the former U.S. president Bill Clinton as the U.N. point man for tsunami reconstruction in south Asia. A United Nations spokesman says Annan also wants the special envoy, that would be Bill Clinton, to help resolve rebel conflicts in the two hardest-hit countries, Indonesia and Sri Lanka. A full mission ahead for Bill Clinton.

A hot topic at the top of the president's domestic agenda...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're a 20- year-old person and you look at the math, you realize that you will inherit a bankrupt system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Reform and reality, is the nation's Social Security system already in crisis? We'll take a closer look. Also ahead...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA BUSH: The president will talk about confronting problems that he feels like it's his responsibility and the responsibility of elected officials to confront.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A State of the Union preview. The first lady, Laura Bush, gives us a sneak peek at what the president will include in his speech tomorrow night.

And later, pulled from the lineup before the big game, why Anheuser-Busch has decided not to run a controversial Bud Light commercial during the Super Bowl. We'll tell you what's going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Look for President Bush to put the spotlight on Social Security in his State of the Union Address to the nation tomorrow night. He says the system is in crisis and needs immediate fixing, but many Democrats disagree. So what's the real status? CNN's economics correspondent Kathleen Hays joining us now. She's looked into this story -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, accountability, integrity, reliability, these are the watch words of the GAO or Government Accountability Office, words Dave Walker takes very seriously.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): If anyone can be trusted on the Social Security debate, it should be Dave Walker. The first President Bush made him a Social Security trustee in 1990. Then the Clinton White House appointed him comptroller general in 1998. That makes him the nation's chief accountant as head of the Government Accountability Office, the nonpartisan agency that oversees how the federal government spends taxpayer's money and how it administers programs like Social Security.

Walker says the program is on a collision course with demographics.

DAVID WALKER, COMPTROLLER GENERAL: In 1950 there were approximately 16 people paying into Social Security for every person drawing benefits. Today it's about 3.3 persons for every person drawing benefits. And in the next 20 to 25 years, it's going to go down to two persons for every person drawing benefits.

HAYS: Fewer people entering the workforce and more people going into retirement. Not a problem yet, but in 13 years, Social Security hits the tip of the demographic iceberg. WALKER: Starting in 2018, we're going to turn negative cash flow, which means that there will be more money paid out in that year than we're taking in. Right now we're taking in more than we're paying out. And so we'll start to feel the crunch at that point in time.

HAYS: That means the government will have to find more cash to plug the financial hole: raise taxes, cut spending on other programs, or borrow money and make the big budget deficit even bigger.

President Bush paints a dire picture.

BUSH: If you're a 20-year-old person and you look at the math, you realize that you will inherit a bankrupt system.

HAYS: By mid-century, if Congress doesn't act...

(on camera): Are younger workers in danger of getting to retirement and finding there's not enough money left to pay their benefits?

WALKER: There will be money in Social Security. The question is how much money? Even when the trust fund runs dry, 2042, there will be about 73 cents in revenue for every dollar of promised benefits.

HAYS (voice-over): That would leave people with just three- fourths of their monthly benefits. Right now the average monthly Social Security payment is about $872, three-fourths of that is just $636. That's a 27 percent cut.

Walker says it would be a mistake to wait until mid-century to act.

WALKER: Especially when we face large and growing budget deficits that are driven largely by known demographic trends and rising healthcare costs. Time is working against us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAYS: As for the personal investment accounts the president has championed, Walker says personal accounts alone will not solve Social Security's problems or eliminate the need to look at other changes like higher taxes or a later retirement age, but he says they should be considered as part of any overall reform package, especially for younger people -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kathleen Hays, reporting from New York, thanks for that explanation. Appreciate it very much. And we'll have much more on the topic of Social Security coming up on this program tomorrow.

We'll meet a man opposed to the president's proposed changes, who says that if a portion of his Social Security had been invested in the stock market, he would be sunk right now. Our senior correspondent Allan Chernoff will have that story for us tomorrow on this program.

As we mentioned, tomorrow night President Bush delivers his State of the Union Address, but ahead of the speech, the first lady, Laura Bush, is speaking out herself. Mrs. Bush sat down today with our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley for a wide-ranging interview and she gave a preview of part of her husband's speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA BUSH: The president will talk about confronting problems that he feels like it's his responsibility and the responsibility of elected officials to confront, and certainly one of those is Social Security, to figure out what we can do, have everybody in the United States Congress and the president can come together to make sure that Social Security will be viable in the future, when all of us who are Baby Boomers are on Social Security and then there are fewer at that point, younger workers who are putting money into Social Security.

So he'll talk about that. He'll also talk about an issue that I'm very interested in, and that's what we can do for our teenagers to make sure they can have successful lives. The No Child Left Behind Act that was passed during his first term, really is directed at young children, making sure that children learn to read by the third grade, but there are a lot of ways we can intervene in an older child's life to make sure they also know how to read and that they can have a successful life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The first lady speaking with our Candy Crowley earlier today.

One day after fainting at an event in New York, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton made a far less dramatic appearance at a Senate hearing on Capitol Hill. She says she's over the 24-hour stomach bug that leveled her yesterday in Buffalo. She was speaking as a women's group fund-raiser when she fainted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHANIE PINCUS, SAW CLINTON FAINT: I can't really say anything about the particular treatment. She clearly had consulted with physicians beforehand. She knew she wasn't feeling well. She came in. She said she wasn't feeling well. She felt hot, and had stepped out to remove some of her heavier clothing, and then it was just too much for her to continue. She was sitting down and said she just couldn't go on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Dr. Pincus was there at the time. After being checked by a doctor, Clinton resumed her schedule before returning to Washington yesterday.

As senators discuss raising military death benefits for families who have lost loved ones in combat, some military families are struggling just to cover funeral expenses. When we come back, I'll talk to one widow who says she feels like a victim of her own country. And later, they signed up for an adventure at sea and got a lot more than they bargained for. Students getting the lesson of a lifetime. Their story, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're just getting this story in to CNN. The Italian News Agency ANSA being quoted by the Reuters News Agency. Pope John Paul II, it says has been taken to the hospital suffering from the flu, officials saying according to ANSA, the Italian news agency, that this is being done as an abundance of precaution. The pope fell ill with influenza on Sunday, has been forced over the past day or tow to cancel all of his engagements.

The Polish-born 84-year-old pontiff has been not been feeling well. No official world yet from the Vatican. We're checking this story out for our viewers. But, once again, the Italian news media, specifically the news agency ANSA, reporting that Pope John Paul II has been taken to the hospital suffering from the flu. We'll get some more information. We'll get in touch with Alessio Vinci, our Rome bureau chief, shortly, get some more on this.

But let's move on to our top story right now, a move in the U.S. Congress to raise military death benefits.

Chelle Pokorney's husband died in Iraq almost two years ago. Now she's become a spokeswoman for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund.

She's joining us now live with her daughter from New York.

Our condolences to you, Chelle. Thanks very much for joining us.

First of all, tell us about your husband. When and how did he get killed?

CHELLE POKORNEY, WIFE OF KILLED U.S. SOLDIER: Fred was killed March 23 of 2003. It was the fourth day of the war. He was going in to help with the efforts and was taken -- his life was taken by the Iraqis.

BLITZER: And what happened to you as a result? You got some military death benefits. What did that amount to?

POKORNEY: Initially, they gave us a $6,000 gratuity, that half of that was taxable. And with help, with more support, that was doubled and given to us at a later time.

But from the time I lost him until now, I'm still trying to figure out the benefits that are entitled to us as military families.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Why is it so complicated? You would think that there's a process, a formula in place that would try to deal with this as quickly and as efficiently with you as possible. POKORNEY: It's just the way the paperwork is at this time. That's why we do what we do, is trying to help the families to navigate through this paperwork, because there's a lot of paperwork. And it takes a lot of time, especially when you're trying to grieve the loss of a loved one and your best friend and the father of your child.

BLITZER: Did you finally get the $12,000, what they call the death benefit gratuity? Did that finally come through?

POKORNEY: Yes, they retroacted that back, yes.

BLITZER: And what about the insurance?

POKORNEY: Yes. The death -- the term life insurance my husband had opted to purchase, but many families opted not to because of the cost each month, and they did not receive that $250,000.

BLITZER: What's your reaction to what's happening in the U.S. Congress now, an effort to dramatically increase those funds?

POKORNEY: I'm excited. I'm hopeful. And I'm thankful to the American public and Congress is going to take the time to take this into consideration, because it would make a difference in my life and Taylor's and all the families who have lost a loved one.

BLITZER: Tell us what the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund does.

POKORNEY: What the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund does, we give -- 100 percent of all money donated by the American public goes directly to survives spouses and families who have lost a loved one in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We give $11,000 to the dependent surviving spouses and $5,000 to each child. And we don't ask for any paperwork. It will help for immediate cost for the families.

BLITZER: Chelle Pokorney, good luck to you. Good luck to Taylor. Our hearts go out to you for...

POKORNEY: Thanks, Wolf.

Can I say one more one thing? If people would like to learn one more thing about -- they can go to our Web site, www.fallenheroesfund.org. Thank you.

BLITZER: OK. Well, that's fine. Thank you. Appreciate it very much.

POKORNEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: Let's go to Alessio Vinci. We have him on the phone right now, our Rome correspondent.

What can you tell you about the condition of the pontiff?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, CNN has just confirmed that Pope John Paul II, who is suffering from a bout of flu, has been taken to the Gemelli Hospital within the last few hours. We have got confirmation from the Vatican press office.

Father Chiro Bamadattimi at that office is telling us that there is no cause for alarm, that this is a precautionary measure, but nevertheless Pope John Paul II has at this time been taken to the Gemelli Hospital for further medical tests. The pope has been suffering for the last few days of a -- what the Vatican has described as a mild influenza, and therefore now the Vatican is confirming to CNN that Pope John Paul II has been admitted to the Gemelli Hospital here in Rome, Wolf.

BLITZER: Alessio, when we saw that picture of him and heard his voice on Sunday, I believe that was the last time we saw and heard him. He's been very frail in recent months and years, as you well know. You cover him full time. He seemed in pretty bad shape Sunday, but give me your impression.

VINCI: Well, my impress, Wolf has been that, in recent months, the pope, although he is ailing and suffers from a series of ailments, including Parkinson's disease, he has been looking and sounding quite remarkably well considering his age and all his ailments.

That said, last Sunday, which was the last time that we saw the pope publicly, he did speak with a hoarse voice, but his spirit looked extremely high. It was clear that his condition was something out of the extraordinary, if you want. His voice was very hoarse, but, again, his spirit looked very up, even joking at some point when releasing two doves out of his office. And those two doves went back into his window, as opposed to flying away.

And he looked like he almost kicked one. He looked like he was very aware of what was going on around him, so the only problem seemed to be that he only had this flu, which is what the Vatican has been telling us for the last few days.

Now, of course, it is quite an extraordinary precaution, to take the pope to the Gemelli Hospital. He has been going there regularly for checks, for medical checks. But the last time he's been admitted -- quote, unquote -- "urgently" was when he had to go through surgery. So, one could speculate, if you want, at this time that this may be just a mild flu, but, of course, a mild flu in an 84-year-old pontiff is obviously something that could, you know, perhaps hide some complications, perhaps hide something more serious.

Therefore, the decision has been taken probably by the physicians assisting the pontiff that he had to be taken to the hospital perhaps for further checks.

BLITZER: Alessio, it's now approaching midnight in Rome, where you are. Do we know what time of the evening the pope was taken to the hospital?

VINCI: No, we don't, really. This information came to us first, was reported by the Italian news agencies, without any specific source, if you want. We were able to confirm it directly with one of the officials at the press office within the last few minutes. And so far, he did not have the specifics of when exactly the pope was admitted, but possibly within the last few hours for sure.

BLITZER: If the pope has to spend an extended stay in the hospital right now for some treatment, who in effect takes over on a day-to-day basis?

VINCI: Well, you know, the pope, ever since -- in the last few years, he's pretty much handed over the day-to-day operation of the running of the Catholic Church to his cardinals, to the various offices running the Catholic Church. The pope has -- although he has the last say on just about that anything within the Vatican and in the Catholic Church, the day-to-day operations, if you want, of the church is left to cardinals and to the various congregations that form the Roman Curia.

So it is quite easy to speculate here one more time that the operations of the Vatican, the day-to-day operations of the Vatican, will not suffer particularly from the fact that the pope is in a hospital, rather than in his study at the Vatican.

BLITZER: All right, Alessio, I want you to stand by.

John Allen is also joining us on the phone now from Rome. John Allen is our Vatican analyst.

You've been looking into this story. John, what have you heard?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, it's very preliminary at this stage. We know that the pope has been taken to Rome's Gemelli Hospital.

One source that I spoke to a few moments ago was indicating that it might have been a respiratory problem that brought this on. Of course, the pope's been down with the flu the last couple of days. And his public schedule has been cleared for the rest of this week. But, as I say, these reports are very preliminary. And all we know at this stage is that he's at Gemelli Hospital and getting some kind of medical attention there.

BLITZER: This is rather unusual, though. Even though the pope has been frail, he's been ailing over these past several years, how unusual is it for him to be in effect taken to the hospital, the emergency room, if you will, in this kind of condition?

ALLEN: It's quite unusual, though not unprecedented.

There have been a few other occasions over the course of his pontificate where he's been taken to Gemelli. But normally speaking, this sort of thing would not happen. And therefore it indicates that an unforeseen -- particularly the fact this is happening at -- we're getting close to midnight Roman time. Obviously, this is not something that his doctors anticipated, which would tell us that something relatively dramatic has happened. On the other hand, we should also issue a huge note of caution, which is that this is a man who has outlived many predictions of his demise over the years. And there's no indication, at least earlier today, there was no indication there was anything particularly dramatic going on.

In fact, earlier today, the Vatican was working on scheduling a meeting with the new U.S. secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, for early next week with the pope. So, it certainly is worth taking a note of caution in all this. On the other hand, Wolf, it is unusual.

BLITZER: When you saw the pictures from last Sunday of the pope when he was at that window and you heard that voice of his, you've been watching and you've been covering him for a long time, what did you think?

ALLEN: Well, I was actually in the square when the pope was giving his Angelus address last Sunday.

And I would say, two things struck me. One, the voice was awful. It was -- it was much rockier and raspier than it has been even in recent experience. On the other hand, I would say, physically, you know, he didn't look all that bad. In fact, there was this sort of moment of comedy there when the pope was trying to release a peace dove into the air and the doves kept trying to fly back into the window, and the pope was trying to bat it out. And it was all sort of comical.

And so, I have to say, I was not overly alarmed at the way he appeared. And it is still basically the winter season here. Lots of Italians have the flu, so I haven't found anything particularly surprising about the fact that he came down with it either.

On the other hand, again, at 84 years of age, and with all of the health problems he's had, dating back to the assassination attempt in '81, a very difficult hip replacement surgery in '94, and all of the burdens of the office that he carries, it certainly is worth paying attention to how things develop in the next few hours.

BLITZER: All right, I want you to stand by, John. And Alessio is standing by.

We have "TIME"'s Rome bureau chief, Jeff Israely, joining us as well.

Jeff, what can you add?

JEFF ISRAELY, ROME BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME": Well, the information is quite limited. The Vatican has been quite quick about keeping us informed these past three days, told us right away Monday that the pope would be canceling his regular work duties Monday with a mild case of the flu.

Earlier this morning, they reported to us that today's activities, as well as tomorrow's general audience would be canceled, again saying that the flu was not serious, that he did not have a recurrence of that fever that he had had Sunday.

And this evening, as soon as he was brought to the hospital, the word had gotten out that he was brought there. Again, there's no sign that it is anything other than a case of a flu, a flu that has been going around Rome, going around Italy the past two or three weeks.

But, again, the pope is an elderly man, 84, and has been has been -- has had nine operations over the course of his lifetime, an assassination attempt. And any time a man in that condition is -- faces any kind of illness, there's concern.

BLITZER: Jeff, what do you know, if you do know anything, about the Gemelli Hospital, where he's been taken?

ISRAELY: Well, it's the pope's hospital of choice. It's where he's undergone just about all of the surgeries, where his team of doctors works. And it's located in a northern neighborhood of Rome called Monte Mario.

And, of course, the pope -- there is a team of doctors that checks regularly on the pope. And they are probably just about all there at this time checking on his condition.

BLITZER: We were told he has Parkinson's disease as well, and he suffers from some other chronic ailments. What else do you know? What other problems, health problems does she have?

ISRAELY: Well, he does -- actually, I spoke just last week with a senior Vatican official who has regular contact with the pope and who described the pope as a man with no life-threatening conditions. He has no sign of any kind of cancer.

He has what this official described as a strong heart. He still flies on helicopters and still keeps up a regular work schedule. With that said, he does suffer from Parkinson's, which is a debilitating degenerative disease. And as I said before, he is weakened physically and susceptible to whatever might strike.

And so concern is -- it's a sort of a paradox -- a weak man with a strong heart, and we're all watching closely. It's the first time he's been hospitalized in at least six or seven years . And we're watching closely.

BLITZER: Jeff, I remember at the time last year, when he made those trips to Croatia and Slovakia, a lot of analysts, a lot of observers thought those trips had taken a serious toll on the 84-year- old, then 83-year-old pope. Did you great that sense?

ISRAELY: Well, each trip does take its toll. And his travel schedule has been greatly reduced. He has one trip planned at this point for this summer in Cologne for the World Youth Day in July, but otherwise, nothing on his schedule.

And rumors of trips to Poland, of trips to Ireland, of trips to Mexico have all been bashed. His work schedule has been reduced. And the trips certainly take their toll. The travel and the heavy schedule that he keeps up when he travels abroad, when he wants to see as many of the pilgrims, as many of the faithful as he can, takes its toll.

So he -- but, at the same time, he had shown signs -- he's shown a sort of pattern of ups and downs in which he can look very weak for weeks on end, and then suddenly look strong again. Obviously, he takes medication for the Parkinson's, which doctors have to adjust according to his condition. And his condition varies.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff, I'm going to have you stand by as well, Jeff Israely from "TIME" magazine, the "TIME" magazine bureau chief in Rome, Alessio Vinci, our bureau chief in Rome, is standing by, John Allen, our Vatican analyst.

Once again, recapping, Pope John Paul II has been taken to the Gemelli Hospital in Rome, suffering from the flu. The Vatican has now confirmed this to CNN. We'll continue to watch this story.

We're going to take a quick break, much more on this story, the 84-year-old pontiff in the hospital right now, right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

We're following a disturbing story from Rome. Pope John Paul II has been rushed to a hospital following a couple days of influenza.

Our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, joining us once again on the phone.

Update our viewers, Alessio, what we know right now.

VINCI: What we know so far, Wolf, is that, within the last few hours, Pope John Paul II, who was suffering from a mild influenza, mild flu, has been taken to the Gemelli Hospital here in Rome.

The news was given earlier today by Italian news agencies and was confirmed by a Vatican spokesman to CNN. Indeed, Pope John Paul II has been taken to the hospital, this spokesman telling CNN that there's no real reason for concern at this time, that this hospitalization is primarily a precautionary measure.

As you know, the pope may be suffering just from a mild flu, but he also suffers from a series of other ailments, including Parkinson's disease. And there's some concern that this mild flu could degenerate into something more serious if it's not thoroughly checked.

So, Pope John Paul II has now been admitted to the Gemelli Hospital presumably to go through extensive medical checks to make sure that these mild symptoms of the flu do not hide anything more serious. This is not the first time, of course, that the pope has been admitted to this hospital. He goes there for regular medical checks. And he has been admitted there several times for surgery.

But, as far as I can remember, this is the first time that the pope has been taken to the hospital because of what the Vatican has described as mild symptoms of the flu. So, perhaps there's something more serious behind all this. At this time, we can only speculate.

Vatican officials are playing down this hospitalization, saying it is just a precautionary measure. Nevertheless, we do know that the pope has been feeling quite ill in the last few days. We last saw him on Sunday coming out of the window of his private study in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican.

The pope did speak with a hoarse voice, but he did look in good spirit, however.

BLITZER: All right.

VINCI: And, as a matter of fact, in the last few weeks and months, he's been looking remarkably well, considering the fact that the pope is old, suffers from a series of ailments, as I said, and certainly looks much better, if you want, than, let's say, in 2003, after two very long trips he took to Croatia and Slovakia.

BLITZER: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Alessio, I want you to hold on for a second, because I want to play for our viewers the sound, what the pope said on Sunday, this past Sunday, January 30, when he was frail, when he was already suffering from the flu, and he had this very raspy, hoarse voice. Let's roll that tape right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE JOHN PAUL II: (SPEAKING ITALIAN)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The pope was clearly applauded by those who had gathered.

Alessio, you've heard his voice many times. As you point out, it was hoarse. It sounded a lot worse than in the past.

VINCI: It certainly does, certainly hoarse.

And, again, I must point out, however, Wolf, that while his voice sounded as hoarse as our viewers could tell, what you also have to look is at his body language. And I'm not sure if our tape showed this, but, at some point, the pope was flanked by two young 8-year-old kids. And they all released two doves, a sign of peace, if you want. January is the month that the Vatican sets aside for peace around the world. And these two doves -- actually, one of them refused to fly away and flew back into the Vatican study of the pope. And the pope almost kicked one out, joking with the kids. So he was clearly aware and well aware and understanding of what was going on around him. And although he's no longer able to walk on his own, he needs the assistance of several people to move from one place to the other, in this particular video, set aside his voice. The rest of his body looked responsive, if you want.

So, it didn't look like he was worse than in previous times, in previous occasions. Again, so, for people who don't watch him regularly, on a weekly basis, seeing him like that sounds a lot worse than perhaps for us who actually look at him and watch him and follow him on a regular basis. So, despite his voice, everything else, considering of course his age and his ailments, the pope looks better, if you want, than he has looked in the past.

BLITZER: Is the Vatican generally, Alessio, pretty up front, pretty open, with details of the pope's health?

VINCI: No, of course not.

As a matter of fact, it's been very difficult to get any kind of information regarding the kind of medications, for example, that the pope is taking to cure his Parkinson's disease. As a matter of fact, the Vatican has never officially admitted that the pope suffers from Parkinson's disease. Some Vatican officials and some cardinals privately have gone as far as saying that he suffers from the complications from an illness related to Parkinson's.

But no Vatican official has ever admitted openly that the pope does suffer from, among other things, the Parkinson's disease. So the Vatican has never really been very open in discussing the pope's health, although, of course, in recent years, they could no longer ignore the fact that his hand was shaking, that his body obviously was no longer responding to his mind, if you want.

The pope, with all the people that have met him in private, unanimously, everybody is saying that the pope appears always extremely aware of what is going on around him, understands exactly what is going on, that perhaps his body is not able to follow his mind.

BLITZER: All right. All right, Alessio, Alessio Vinci, our reporter in Rome covering this story.

Pope John Paul II has been taken to a hospital, Gemelli Hospital in Rome, suffering from complications from influenza, from the flu. We'll have much more coverage of this coming up throughout the night.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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