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American Morning
Plane Crashes into a Warehouse in Teterboro, New Jersey; Pope Spends the Night in the Hospital
Aired February 02, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Just about 8:30 here in New York. If you're just waking up this morning and joining us, this is what we know and this is the story we're following out of Teterboro New Jersey, only 12 miles outside of New York City. This is a small airport, used by corporate and private jets, many business people, men and women, celebrities fly in and out of the small airport, very close to the city of New York. There are injuries, we know that. We can see that from the pictures.
Also, there's a report now through local police that there are fatalities. Route 46 is closed in both directions. And a bit later, you will see some videotape that shows the skidmarks where this plane tried to get off the runway, but local reports say it never got into the air, veered off the runway, crossed route 46, broke through a steel fence that you can see mangled back on the highway, and then crashed into this warehouse. That warehouse described to us as a building that is a clothing store. But we're also told that no employees were in at the time, so that could be a silver lining in all this as well.
Twelve miles from New York City, clear skies, 22 degrees locally in New Jersey, and this report again that the plane did not get off the ground is going to be the source of an investigation going forward here.
It was bound for Chicago, Chicago's Midway. It's registered to a company known as Alliance, which is a tax-consulting firm, and we are told there were 12 people onboard that jet. If that includes crew members, we cannot confirm that at this point, but again, we're working it from a number of angles. This story is one of two are we're following around the world today. This one happens to hit quite close to home here in the New York City area. Much more on this when we get more from Teterboro.
But first, there's another story from overseas -- Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely. In fact, we have been covering the pope's health. The pope really, we're told, has spent the night well after being rushed to the hospital for a treatment of a respiratory infection. Vatican sources say his condition is stabilizing. The pope's going to remain in the hospital for a few more days.
We're going to bring you back to the plane story in just a moment. But first, we want to right to CNN's Jim Bittermann. He's at Gemelli Hospital, which is outside of Rome, and he joins us with the very latest on the pope's condition this morning.
Jim, good morning.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
In fact, It's Exactly as you say. The Vatican is saying that the pope's condition is stabilized. Vatican radio saying perhaps he'd be able to leave in a few days. The Vatican spokesman saying no one should get alarmed. However, someone did get alarmed last night because they moved the pope around 11:00 last night from the Vatican to here, Gemelli Hospital, and there's already a lot of medical equipment in the Vatican. So they must have felt that something was -- something very alarming was going on last night.
We're told that basically he was suffering spasms, muscle spasms in the throat area, larynx spasms, and that that would cause him not to be able to breathe for periods of time. And that, of course, may have been the drama that brought him here.
Now, one of the things that was said this morning, is that the pope sat up, was able to have some breakfast and drink some coffee. And our dr. Sanjay Gupta said a while ago that seems to be an indication that at least the spasms are gone.
However, we're still being told that the pope is suffering a respiratory infection. And for years now, with his Parkinson's Disease, one of the things that we have heard about is that, in fact, if there's any kind of press respiratory problem, this can be very bad if you've got Parkinson's Disease, because in Parkinson's, you lose control of the muscle structures around your lungs and throat area and any kind of infection there just complicates things a lot.
So we're not really sure how to take this. Clearly, the pope's condition is stabilized. There's no sense of urgency at the hospital. But by the same token, he continues to have this respiratory infection -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Jim, you mentioned no sense of urgency at the hospital. How do the Vatican's reassurances sound to you? Because the Vatican, frankly, has a little bit of a history of saying it's all fine, it's all fine when it's not always all fine necessarily, right?
BITTERMANN: That's correct. One of the old expressions, old sayings around the Vatican is that popes never get sick until they die, and basically meaning that they always make it sound as if everything is just fine. I was here when Paul VI died, and I know that we were being told, even hours before he died, we were being told that he was just suffering some minor stomach problems, and within two or three hours of that announcement from the Vatican, Paul VI was dead.
So it is a little difficult to break down the informational walls of the Vatican. One of the things that's interesting, Soledad, is when the hospital spokesman came out to give a briefing to the press a while ago, all he really did was read right from a Vatican press release. So clearly, the hospital is taking its cues directly from the Vatican about what kind of information to release -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, less word from the hospital and sort of more word from the Vatican.
I want to throw a quick question to you. You know, any 84-year- old with any sort of history of medical problems, flu is deadly, isn't it?
BITTERMANN: Well, I think, you know, you have to take that into consideration. And plus, this is not just any 84-year-old. The fact is the pope has suffered a great deal. First growing up in first under Nazis and then Communism, he suffered a lot behind the Iron Curtain, under Communism. He's been shot, he's fallen, he's had knee problems, he's had hip problems, and just any number of other sort of ailments that sort of contribute to his overall general medical condition.
And plus the Parkinson's, which we've seen, the first symptoms of Parkinson's began about 10 years ago, and the pope has been in steady decline since then. And Parkinson's can be very severe. As I mentioned earlier, if you've got a respiratory ailment, Parkinson's can be very difficult on the respiratory ailment. The two in combination can be pretty negative -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: One would imagine. Jim Bittermann for us this morning in Rome. Jim, thank you very much -- Bill.
HEMMER: Father Thomas Reese is a CNN papal analyst, also the author of "Archbishop: Inside The Power Structure of the American Catholic Church."
Father, good morning to you. Nice to see you here.
Your reaction to what appears to be an improving condition at this hour?
FATHER THOMAS REESE, CNN PAPAL ANALYST: I think everyone is very happy that his health is -- seems to be improving. I think there was a lot of concern last night with his difficulties in breathing, but you know, this is a man who has been sick for a long time. These kinds of things aren't unexpected. We hope and pray for the best, but we know that, you know, he, like all of us, is some day going to face our lord and master, and for us Christians, you know, that's not something that scares us. It's something that gives us hope.
HEMMER: Nine operations and a bullet wound going back to 1981. When Jim Bittermann said a pope is never sick until he's dead, you had a smile on your face. Has that been the case for the Vatican?
REESE: Oh absolutely. That's always been the tradition in the Vatican. You don't talk about the pope's health, he's fine. You know, there were cases where they were denying that the pope was sick, and the next day he was dead. So I think that the Vatican, under Pope John Paul II has become much more open on these things, but they're still not willing to have doctors come out and really give details.
HEMMER: What do you think about the reports we've been getting throughout the week? Do you think they've been open on this story?
REESE: I think for the most part. It seems like he did have the flu. They reported that he was having troubles breathing. All of these things makes sense in terms of his health.
HEMMER: The one thing, father, that keeps coming back with the condition of Pope John Paul II and his health, oftentimes you wonder, would the church go ahead and elect a new pope if his health continues to deteriorate. Is that an issue that would be even considered by the cardinals and by the Vatican?
REESE: Well, I mean, the pope would have to resign before that could happen. We have had popes in the past who have resigned, maybe as many as 10. This pope, however, feels that this is a vocation he's received from God, and it's not one that he can put aside, no matter how much suffering he has.
HEMMER: Well, he has been a fighter and survivor.
To the one billion Catholics, and maybe to everybody watching this program, tell us why you believe this man has been so special for so long.
REESE: I think he's been an extraordinary leader. I think he's the most important world leader in the second half of the 20th century. The impact he had on the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe, the work he did in improving relations between Catholics and Jews, instituting dialogue with other religious groups, like Muslims, his concern for the poor in the third world. All of these things are things that he's going go down in history for.
HEMMER: Well, we wish him the best. Father, thanks. Thomas Reese here in New York City. Nice to see you -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Let's take you back, Bill, to Teterboro, New Jersey, where there is a plane crash to tell you about out of Teterboro Airport. In fact, we've been looking at pictures all morning. It is our second story that is our big story this morning. The plane -- happened -- the plane crash rather happened not very long ago. It's a corporate jet, believed to be carrying 13 people. By reports, it was going at full speed but could never really get off the ground. That's according to some reports. It hit a fence at the end of the runway and then plowed across Route 46 there in Teterboro, and right smack into a one-story warehouse.
Those are the pictures that you're looking at there, the smoke coming out. Firefighters have been on the scene, trying to put out flames and deal with some of this heavy smoke that we've seen.
There are reports now this morning that indicate 11 injured, two people missing. We have not confirmed those reports at this hour. In fact, some of the numbers have been fluctuating a little bit this morning.
We have seen, though, some severely damaged vehicles, cars on the roadway, motorists obviously in the middle of rush-hour traffic. Also it looks as if a left wing has snapped off this jet. It's a Challenger twin-engine CL-600, made by Canadair, and obviously it's the same jet.
You're looking at pictures that were taped a little bit earlier, the flames there, and the result of the impact of this plane hitting the warehouse. More information on this going to follow. We're continuing to update the story, and of course we've got reporters heading to the scene right now.
A short break is ahead. We're back in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. You're looking at some live pictures from Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey, just about 12 miles outside of New York City here. We're getting reports this morning and have seen pictures of a plane crash, a plane running off the runway at Teterboro, going at full speed, by some reports, plowing through a fence, across route 46 there in Teterboro, and right into a warehouse.
Some reports this morning from WABC, actually, says that the FAA is now looking at icing on the wings. And earlier, we were chatting with Chad Myers about the dew-point spread and how dangerous that could be, even on what most would consider very nice weather in New York City, 22 degrees at the time of this crash in Teterboro, New Jersey, a little bit higher than that here in the city. One would thing it would almost be a perfect flying day.
But actually, as was described by Chad and Miles O'Brien a little bit earlier, can be very, very dangerous because the dew can freeze on the wing, can make flying very difficult. If the pilot is not very much looking out for that, may not request icing. It could, in fact, be deadly.
Of course, that is just one of things, one of the numerous things that the FAA and the NTSB will be looking at as they start their investigation into this plane crash. State police also telling us that two people are missing in this crash, and 11 are reported to be injured. Unclear the numbers -- if those numbers are from people on the plane, if those numbers are from people who are the motorists driving by.
As you mentioned, we are at the height of rush hour, and we certainly were when this plane crash occurred.
HEMMER: I'll tell you what, if this state trooper -- if that is the case, the two missing and 11 injured, that may be the best-case scenario based on the information we have at this point.
Just about 30 minutes ago, we were told there were 12 people onboard the plane, and again, this is preliminary, but if there is some sort of rescue operation being -- taking place right now inside that warehouse, it could be possibly that there are people who survived this plane. Miles O'Brien's been watching it from Atlanta, I believe you are there, Miles. Chime on in here. We haven't spoken in about 40 minutes. Based on what you're learning, go ahead, and as a pilot yourself, tell us.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know, I think it might be helpful right now, Bill, to kind of go through the checklist that the National Transportation Safety Board will be going through in all of this. And among the things, they will look at everything from what the pilots did to prepare for this flight, how they loaded it up, how much fuel was onboard. So I think we can start with that right away and say that this was an airplane that was fully loaded, had a fair amount of fuel for the 600-nautical mile flight to Chicago. Couple that with the fact that you're on a 6,000 foot runway, which would have been a rather cozy runway, shall we say, for that Canadair with that configuration at that time, with no margin, because you're in a downtown airport with buildings all around it.
Now, the next thing they'll be looking at is, well, what happened during the takeoff roll? Did one of those engines fail? Did something get sucked into the engine? A bird strike, for example, or did one of the engines fail catastrophically and stop for some reason at a very inopportune time and made it difficult for that plane to fly? Were the flaps set properly? Another thing they can check in the wreckage there and make a determination if those control surfaces, the flaps were in just the right case.
And then the other thing they will be looking at is -- and more accurately, it will be described as frost, as opposed to ice. I think I misspoke slightly earlier. That plane, if it had been sitting out overnight on the tarmac there at Teterboro with the temperatures as they were and based on the information Chad told us a little while ago, indicating that the humidity got up to 90 percent, in essence, what you have is frozen dew or frost which could develop on those white wings. And of course, frost is white. And unless the pilots are very careful to make an inspection of that, that can overlook their attention before they take off.
One other issue to point out here is deicing is very expensive. To deice a plane like that can be upwards of $1,000. There's a lot of pressure on these corporate operators, these air-charter operators and so forth, to cut costs wherever possible. Was there any pressure on the pilots to cut costs for deicing usage and that sort of thing? These are all things that the National Transportation Safety Board will get involved in.
S. O'BRIEN: Let me ask a question about that. Miles, you have to imagine, though, here in the Northeast, after a snowstorm, we're seeing snow on the ground, I mean, no one realistically could be pressuring pilots. I could see how there might be a line further south where, you know, where it could be someone's call. But I have to imagine, that middle of winter in the Northeast, their really, potentially, could be pressure on pilots, generally speaking, to not deice?
M. O'BRIEN: Well, let me just say this, frequently in these cases when you go to the issue of money, and business, aviation in general, that is under duress financially, frequently what you'll find is money dictates safety. And spending money generally equates a safer situation. And generally, pilots are under either subtle, overt or, you know, kind of -- whether it's stated clearly or not, put it that way, whether it's put on the table or not, they're told wherever possible, to trim costs.
And frequently, what that leads to is less safe situations. You know, once again, we're way down the road here in all of this, but that is the environment in which these pilots are operating these days.
HEMMER: Miles, we're going to move on to another story. One other question I want to know from you, though -- if this plane is at full speed and doesn't get off the ground, how much land does this plane need to slow down and stop?
M. O'BRIEN: Well, you got to assume it's going at least 140 knots, which would be about 160, 170 miles per hour. And I don't have the weights of that aircraft in front of me, but that's obviously a heavy corporate-class jet.
HEMMER: All right.
M. O'BRIEN: It would take, I'm going to guess, a mile of travel.
HEMMER: There is a lot of speculation out there. We don't want to go into that area. You have something else?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I want to ask him a quick question. You know, Miles, we're looking at the shot of this plane. There are two holes on top where the smoke is coming out. Give me a sense, if you can -- it doesn't look like they'd be holes from any sort of impact, because, of course, that's the part of the plane, or parts of the plane, that haven't hit the warehouse yet.
Now the camera's moving back a little bit. Would this being potentially firefighters climbing on board on top of the plane to open it up and get access to the fire? Give me a sense what was that could be?
M. O'BRIEN: It's possible that's just where the aluminum burned through. That could have been where the flames were the very hottest, at the actual peak of the flames. And that might have been the point at which aluminum actually melted. And that might be what caused those holes.
HEMMER: Hang on, Miles. Talk to you a bit later. Thanks again for your expertise. Miles is a pilot. Always good to have him on board when we are talking about these matters.
Want to shift our attention now. Later tonight, the biggest story in this country will be the State of the Union address given by the president on Capitol Hill. Iraq will be a focus and so, too, will be reforming Social Security.
Here is Joe Johns now on Capitol Hill now with a preview. Good morning there, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
The president's speech comes at a time when debate over his biggest idea is already well under way. But members of Congress from both parties say they don't expect all the specifics. They do expect some salesmanship tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS (voice-over): On the eve of the State of the Union address, the Senate's top Democrat flatly dismissed the president's anticipated call to change Social Security.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: President Bush should forget about privatizing Social Security. It will not happen. And the sooner he comes to that realization, the better off we are.
JOHNS: What Democrats call privatization, Republicans prefer to call personal accounts. But whatever the label, Bush's allies want him to make his best case for allowing workers to shift some of their Social Security money into private retirement accounts. Republicans also want the president to start convincing the public on the need to overhaul Social Security now, even though the government predicts the program won't go broke for decades.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: As we all know, when we're talking about altering a program that we know is a great program, has a tremendous history to it, that seniors, near seniors, and all of us have great value in, it is a huge challenge.
JOHNS: Internationally, Iraq remains at the top of the list, and while the president is expected to highlight the success of Sunday's election, the focus now is on what happens next.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: That we're going to build on this. This was great day on Sunday, but it's only going to be as significant a day in light of history, with what follows on.
JOHNS: Some other top Democrats are demanding an exit strategy. But Republican senator John McCain rejects a timetable.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: But it's clear that this victory has changed the dynamic so that we will be able to continue to train the Iraqi military and police to take over the responsibilities that American military is now carrying out and eventually we will be able to withdraw.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Fiscal restraint is another item of interest tonight. The president is expected to call to keep discretionary spending around one percent -- Bill.
HEMMER: Joe, we'll be watching later tonight. Thanks on Capitol Hill, Joe Johns, for that. Stay tuned later tonight. Our live coverage begins down in D.C. at 8:00 Eastern time, about an hour before the president's address, 5:00 on the West Coast. And tomorrow morning, Soledad will be down in D.C. Leaving today, right?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Right after the show, actually.
We are going to update you, of course, on this plane crash out of Teterboro Airport. We have been covering it all morning, and, as you can see, the rescue workers are underway. This rescue operation, we've been told, underway and firefighters on the scene, as well.
A short break is ahead and then we'll come back to this story and all our other top stories this morning, as well. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Let's take you back live to Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey, the site of a plane crash. You can see the plane right there. The plane, never getting off the ground, ran right through a fence and across Route 46 there in Teterboro and then smack into a warehouse building. That's what you're seeing right here. Firefighters on the scene, trying to put out some of the fire inside the plane. Also, we're told rescue operations, maybe just precautionary, are underway inside that warehouse as well.
A little bit earlier, we heard from Kelly Montague, courtesy of our affiliate WABC TV, who talked a little bit about what she saw. She's an eyewitness to the crash.
KELLY MONTAGUE, EYEWITNESS TO CRASH: I saw the plane smash into Strawberry's. I was at the Bank of America, withdrawing money and once I -- the plane smashed and the front of it just blew. And I was so nervous, instead of making a right to go to the police station out of the bank, I made a left.
There was one car involved. That's it. There was red lights on both sides of 46. There was one car involved. It was going eastbound but facing westbound. There was a guy on the street, right on the grass of Bank of America and there was another gentleman holding his hair up. I don't know -- holding his head up. I don't know where he came from, the car or Strawberry's or whatever. But it's horrifying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you were going to the police station. Are you an officer?
MONTAGUE: No. I went into South Hackensack police station. I turned around and I ran in and they knew nothing about it. And I ran in and I said, there's a plane crash, there's a plane crash and three officers of South Hackensack ran out. There was nobody there when it happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How close is the police station to where the plane?
MONTAGUE: Half a mile, not even. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half a mile, OK.
MONTAGUE: Not even.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you said you saw it head into the building.
MONTAGUE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At what point, Kelly, did you see it, first off? That's the number one question.
MONTAGUE: I saw the tail of the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
MONTAGUE: And it was -- it just -- the front of it hit the building. It was loud. And I don't believe the plane was on fire beforehand. The front of it, because once the thing crashed, I saw all fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kelly I know that...
S. O'BRIEN: Kelly Montague, an eyewitness, describing -- it seem like anyone was even around. She almost sounds like maybe the first person to see this, describing how she ran into a nearby police station to tell them there's been a plane crash. Saying that she saw the plane hit the Strawberry's, which would be the warehouse for a chain clothing store and that she only, remarkably, saw one vehicle involved.
Of course, we're talking about the height of rush hour on Route 46, there, which the plane crashed before it hit the warehouse. Of course, there are lights all along up and down Route 46. At the end of the day, it may have just been the luck of timing that kept many cars not in the path of this plane, as it slammed into the warehouse. Pretty remarkable if that ends up being the case.
HEMMER: At least two motorists, we're told, were taken to hospitals. And that may be one of the luckier things we've watched in this story for the past hour and a half. If you have red lights on Route 46 and only one vehicle in line of this plane as it was crossing the highway.
Laura Brown, spokesperson person for the FAA, also telling CNN, the plane was at full speed, could not get off the ground when it went off the runway and through that steel fence . Headed for Chicago's Midway Airport. And also, we were talking to Miles about the dew points. And why do we talk about that? Because of an issue of the icing, if there's moisture in the air and you're taking off on a morning flight.
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Aired February 2, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Just about 8:30 here in New York. If you're just waking up this morning and joining us, this is what we know and this is the story we're following out of Teterboro New Jersey, only 12 miles outside of New York City. This is a small airport, used by corporate and private jets, many business people, men and women, celebrities fly in and out of the small airport, very close to the city of New York. There are injuries, we know that. We can see that from the pictures.
Also, there's a report now through local police that there are fatalities. Route 46 is closed in both directions. And a bit later, you will see some videotape that shows the skidmarks where this plane tried to get off the runway, but local reports say it never got into the air, veered off the runway, crossed route 46, broke through a steel fence that you can see mangled back on the highway, and then crashed into this warehouse. That warehouse described to us as a building that is a clothing store. But we're also told that no employees were in at the time, so that could be a silver lining in all this as well.
Twelve miles from New York City, clear skies, 22 degrees locally in New Jersey, and this report again that the plane did not get off the ground is going to be the source of an investigation going forward here.
It was bound for Chicago, Chicago's Midway. It's registered to a company known as Alliance, which is a tax-consulting firm, and we are told there were 12 people onboard that jet. If that includes crew members, we cannot confirm that at this point, but again, we're working it from a number of angles. This story is one of two are we're following around the world today. This one happens to hit quite close to home here in the New York City area. Much more on this when we get more from Teterboro.
But first, there's another story from overseas -- Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely. In fact, we have been covering the pope's health. The pope really, we're told, has spent the night well after being rushed to the hospital for a treatment of a respiratory infection. Vatican sources say his condition is stabilizing. The pope's going to remain in the hospital for a few more days.
We're going to bring you back to the plane story in just a moment. But first, we want to right to CNN's Jim Bittermann. He's at Gemelli Hospital, which is outside of Rome, and he joins us with the very latest on the pope's condition this morning.
Jim, good morning.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
In fact, It's Exactly as you say. The Vatican is saying that the pope's condition is stabilized. Vatican radio saying perhaps he'd be able to leave in a few days. The Vatican spokesman saying no one should get alarmed. However, someone did get alarmed last night because they moved the pope around 11:00 last night from the Vatican to here, Gemelli Hospital, and there's already a lot of medical equipment in the Vatican. So they must have felt that something was -- something very alarming was going on last night.
We're told that basically he was suffering spasms, muscle spasms in the throat area, larynx spasms, and that that would cause him not to be able to breathe for periods of time. And that, of course, may have been the drama that brought him here.
Now, one of the things that was said this morning, is that the pope sat up, was able to have some breakfast and drink some coffee. And our dr. Sanjay Gupta said a while ago that seems to be an indication that at least the spasms are gone.
However, we're still being told that the pope is suffering a respiratory infection. And for years now, with his Parkinson's Disease, one of the things that we have heard about is that, in fact, if there's any kind of press respiratory problem, this can be very bad if you've got Parkinson's Disease, because in Parkinson's, you lose control of the muscle structures around your lungs and throat area and any kind of infection there just complicates things a lot.
So we're not really sure how to take this. Clearly, the pope's condition is stabilized. There's no sense of urgency at the hospital. But by the same token, he continues to have this respiratory infection -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Jim, you mentioned no sense of urgency at the hospital. How do the Vatican's reassurances sound to you? Because the Vatican, frankly, has a little bit of a history of saying it's all fine, it's all fine when it's not always all fine necessarily, right?
BITTERMANN: That's correct. One of the old expressions, old sayings around the Vatican is that popes never get sick until they die, and basically meaning that they always make it sound as if everything is just fine. I was here when Paul VI died, and I know that we were being told, even hours before he died, we were being told that he was just suffering some minor stomach problems, and within two or three hours of that announcement from the Vatican, Paul VI was dead.
So it is a little difficult to break down the informational walls of the Vatican. One of the things that's interesting, Soledad, is when the hospital spokesman came out to give a briefing to the press a while ago, all he really did was read right from a Vatican press release. So clearly, the hospital is taking its cues directly from the Vatican about what kind of information to release -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, less word from the hospital and sort of more word from the Vatican.
I want to throw a quick question to you. You know, any 84-year- old with any sort of history of medical problems, flu is deadly, isn't it?
BITTERMANN: Well, I think, you know, you have to take that into consideration. And plus, this is not just any 84-year-old. The fact is the pope has suffered a great deal. First growing up in first under Nazis and then Communism, he suffered a lot behind the Iron Curtain, under Communism. He's been shot, he's fallen, he's had knee problems, he's had hip problems, and just any number of other sort of ailments that sort of contribute to his overall general medical condition.
And plus the Parkinson's, which we've seen, the first symptoms of Parkinson's began about 10 years ago, and the pope has been in steady decline since then. And Parkinson's can be very severe. As I mentioned earlier, if you've got a respiratory ailment, Parkinson's can be very difficult on the respiratory ailment. The two in combination can be pretty negative -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: One would imagine. Jim Bittermann for us this morning in Rome. Jim, thank you very much -- Bill.
HEMMER: Father Thomas Reese is a CNN papal analyst, also the author of "Archbishop: Inside The Power Structure of the American Catholic Church."
Father, good morning to you. Nice to see you here.
Your reaction to what appears to be an improving condition at this hour?
FATHER THOMAS REESE, CNN PAPAL ANALYST: I think everyone is very happy that his health is -- seems to be improving. I think there was a lot of concern last night with his difficulties in breathing, but you know, this is a man who has been sick for a long time. These kinds of things aren't unexpected. We hope and pray for the best, but we know that, you know, he, like all of us, is some day going to face our lord and master, and for us Christians, you know, that's not something that scares us. It's something that gives us hope.
HEMMER: Nine operations and a bullet wound going back to 1981. When Jim Bittermann said a pope is never sick until he's dead, you had a smile on your face. Has that been the case for the Vatican?
REESE: Oh absolutely. That's always been the tradition in the Vatican. You don't talk about the pope's health, he's fine. You know, there were cases where they were denying that the pope was sick, and the next day he was dead. So I think that the Vatican, under Pope John Paul II has become much more open on these things, but they're still not willing to have doctors come out and really give details.
HEMMER: What do you think about the reports we've been getting throughout the week? Do you think they've been open on this story?
REESE: I think for the most part. It seems like he did have the flu. They reported that he was having troubles breathing. All of these things makes sense in terms of his health.
HEMMER: The one thing, father, that keeps coming back with the condition of Pope John Paul II and his health, oftentimes you wonder, would the church go ahead and elect a new pope if his health continues to deteriorate. Is that an issue that would be even considered by the cardinals and by the Vatican?
REESE: Well, I mean, the pope would have to resign before that could happen. We have had popes in the past who have resigned, maybe as many as 10. This pope, however, feels that this is a vocation he's received from God, and it's not one that he can put aside, no matter how much suffering he has.
HEMMER: Well, he has been a fighter and survivor.
To the one billion Catholics, and maybe to everybody watching this program, tell us why you believe this man has been so special for so long.
REESE: I think he's been an extraordinary leader. I think he's the most important world leader in the second half of the 20th century. The impact he had on the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe, the work he did in improving relations between Catholics and Jews, instituting dialogue with other religious groups, like Muslims, his concern for the poor in the third world. All of these things are things that he's going go down in history for.
HEMMER: Well, we wish him the best. Father, thanks. Thomas Reese here in New York City. Nice to see you -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Let's take you back, Bill, to Teterboro, New Jersey, where there is a plane crash to tell you about out of Teterboro Airport. In fact, we've been looking at pictures all morning. It is our second story that is our big story this morning. The plane -- happened -- the plane crash rather happened not very long ago. It's a corporate jet, believed to be carrying 13 people. By reports, it was going at full speed but could never really get off the ground. That's according to some reports. It hit a fence at the end of the runway and then plowed across Route 46 there in Teterboro, and right smack into a one-story warehouse.
Those are the pictures that you're looking at there, the smoke coming out. Firefighters have been on the scene, trying to put out flames and deal with some of this heavy smoke that we've seen.
There are reports now this morning that indicate 11 injured, two people missing. We have not confirmed those reports at this hour. In fact, some of the numbers have been fluctuating a little bit this morning.
We have seen, though, some severely damaged vehicles, cars on the roadway, motorists obviously in the middle of rush-hour traffic. Also it looks as if a left wing has snapped off this jet. It's a Challenger twin-engine CL-600, made by Canadair, and obviously it's the same jet.
You're looking at pictures that were taped a little bit earlier, the flames there, and the result of the impact of this plane hitting the warehouse. More information on this going to follow. We're continuing to update the story, and of course we've got reporters heading to the scene right now.
A short break is ahead. We're back in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. You're looking at some live pictures from Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey, just about 12 miles outside of New York City here. We're getting reports this morning and have seen pictures of a plane crash, a plane running off the runway at Teterboro, going at full speed, by some reports, plowing through a fence, across route 46 there in Teterboro, and right into a warehouse.
Some reports this morning from WABC, actually, says that the FAA is now looking at icing on the wings. And earlier, we were chatting with Chad Myers about the dew-point spread and how dangerous that could be, even on what most would consider very nice weather in New York City, 22 degrees at the time of this crash in Teterboro, New Jersey, a little bit higher than that here in the city. One would thing it would almost be a perfect flying day.
But actually, as was described by Chad and Miles O'Brien a little bit earlier, can be very, very dangerous because the dew can freeze on the wing, can make flying very difficult. If the pilot is not very much looking out for that, may not request icing. It could, in fact, be deadly.
Of course, that is just one of things, one of the numerous things that the FAA and the NTSB will be looking at as they start their investigation into this plane crash. State police also telling us that two people are missing in this crash, and 11 are reported to be injured. Unclear the numbers -- if those numbers are from people on the plane, if those numbers are from people who are the motorists driving by.
As you mentioned, we are at the height of rush hour, and we certainly were when this plane crash occurred.
HEMMER: I'll tell you what, if this state trooper -- if that is the case, the two missing and 11 injured, that may be the best-case scenario based on the information we have at this point.
Just about 30 minutes ago, we were told there were 12 people onboard the plane, and again, this is preliminary, but if there is some sort of rescue operation being -- taking place right now inside that warehouse, it could be possibly that there are people who survived this plane. Miles O'Brien's been watching it from Atlanta, I believe you are there, Miles. Chime on in here. We haven't spoken in about 40 minutes. Based on what you're learning, go ahead, and as a pilot yourself, tell us.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know, I think it might be helpful right now, Bill, to kind of go through the checklist that the National Transportation Safety Board will be going through in all of this. And among the things, they will look at everything from what the pilots did to prepare for this flight, how they loaded it up, how much fuel was onboard. So I think we can start with that right away and say that this was an airplane that was fully loaded, had a fair amount of fuel for the 600-nautical mile flight to Chicago. Couple that with the fact that you're on a 6,000 foot runway, which would have been a rather cozy runway, shall we say, for that Canadair with that configuration at that time, with no margin, because you're in a downtown airport with buildings all around it.
Now, the next thing they'll be looking at is, well, what happened during the takeoff roll? Did one of those engines fail? Did something get sucked into the engine? A bird strike, for example, or did one of the engines fail catastrophically and stop for some reason at a very inopportune time and made it difficult for that plane to fly? Were the flaps set properly? Another thing they can check in the wreckage there and make a determination if those control surfaces, the flaps were in just the right case.
And then the other thing they will be looking at is -- and more accurately, it will be described as frost, as opposed to ice. I think I misspoke slightly earlier. That plane, if it had been sitting out overnight on the tarmac there at Teterboro with the temperatures as they were and based on the information Chad told us a little while ago, indicating that the humidity got up to 90 percent, in essence, what you have is frozen dew or frost which could develop on those white wings. And of course, frost is white. And unless the pilots are very careful to make an inspection of that, that can overlook their attention before they take off.
One other issue to point out here is deicing is very expensive. To deice a plane like that can be upwards of $1,000. There's a lot of pressure on these corporate operators, these air-charter operators and so forth, to cut costs wherever possible. Was there any pressure on the pilots to cut costs for deicing usage and that sort of thing? These are all things that the National Transportation Safety Board will get involved in.
S. O'BRIEN: Let me ask a question about that. Miles, you have to imagine, though, here in the Northeast, after a snowstorm, we're seeing snow on the ground, I mean, no one realistically could be pressuring pilots. I could see how there might be a line further south where, you know, where it could be someone's call. But I have to imagine, that middle of winter in the Northeast, their really, potentially, could be pressure on pilots, generally speaking, to not deice?
M. O'BRIEN: Well, let me just say this, frequently in these cases when you go to the issue of money, and business, aviation in general, that is under duress financially, frequently what you'll find is money dictates safety. And spending money generally equates a safer situation. And generally, pilots are under either subtle, overt or, you know, kind of -- whether it's stated clearly or not, put it that way, whether it's put on the table or not, they're told wherever possible, to trim costs.
And frequently, what that leads to is less safe situations. You know, once again, we're way down the road here in all of this, but that is the environment in which these pilots are operating these days.
HEMMER: Miles, we're going to move on to another story. One other question I want to know from you, though -- if this plane is at full speed and doesn't get off the ground, how much land does this plane need to slow down and stop?
M. O'BRIEN: Well, you got to assume it's going at least 140 knots, which would be about 160, 170 miles per hour. And I don't have the weights of that aircraft in front of me, but that's obviously a heavy corporate-class jet.
HEMMER: All right.
M. O'BRIEN: It would take, I'm going to guess, a mile of travel.
HEMMER: There is a lot of speculation out there. We don't want to go into that area. You have something else?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I want to ask him a quick question. You know, Miles, we're looking at the shot of this plane. There are two holes on top where the smoke is coming out. Give me a sense, if you can -- it doesn't look like they'd be holes from any sort of impact, because, of course, that's the part of the plane, or parts of the plane, that haven't hit the warehouse yet.
Now the camera's moving back a little bit. Would this being potentially firefighters climbing on board on top of the plane to open it up and get access to the fire? Give me a sense what was that could be?
M. O'BRIEN: It's possible that's just where the aluminum burned through. That could have been where the flames were the very hottest, at the actual peak of the flames. And that might have been the point at which aluminum actually melted. And that might be what caused those holes.
HEMMER: Hang on, Miles. Talk to you a bit later. Thanks again for your expertise. Miles is a pilot. Always good to have him on board when we are talking about these matters.
Want to shift our attention now. Later tonight, the biggest story in this country will be the State of the Union address given by the president on Capitol Hill. Iraq will be a focus and so, too, will be reforming Social Security.
Here is Joe Johns now on Capitol Hill now with a preview. Good morning there, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
The president's speech comes at a time when debate over his biggest idea is already well under way. But members of Congress from both parties say they don't expect all the specifics. They do expect some salesmanship tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS (voice-over): On the eve of the State of the Union address, the Senate's top Democrat flatly dismissed the president's anticipated call to change Social Security.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: President Bush should forget about privatizing Social Security. It will not happen. And the sooner he comes to that realization, the better off we are.
JOHNS: What Democrats call privatization, Republicans prefer to call personal accounts. But whatever the label, Bush's allies want him to make his best case for allowing workers to shift some of their Social Security money into private retirement accounts. Republicans also want the president to start convincing the public on the need to overhaul Social Security now, even though the government predicts the program won't go broke for decades.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: As we all know, when we're talking about altering a program that we know is a great program, has a tremendous history to it, that seniors, near seniors, and all of us have great value in, it is a huge challenge.
JOHNS: Internationally, Iraq remains at the top of the list, and while the president is expected to highlight the success of Sunday's election, the focus now is on what happens next.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: That we're going to build on this. This was great day on Sunday, but it's only going to be as significant a day in light of history, with what follows on.
JOHNS: Some other top Democrats are demanding an exit strategy. But Republican senator John McCain rejects a timetable.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: But it's clear that this victory has changed the dynamic so that we will be able to continue to train the Iraqi military and police to take over the responsibilities that American military is now carrying out and eventually we will be able to withdraw.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Fiscal restraint is another item of interest tonight. The president is expected to call to keep discretionary spending around one percent -- Bill.
HEMMER: Joe, we'll be watching later tonight. Thanks on Capitol Hill, Joe Johns, for that. Stay tuned later tonight. Our live coverage begins down in D.C. at 8:00 Eastern time, about an hour before the president's address, 5:00 on the West Coast. And tomorrow morning, Soledad will be down in D.C. Leaving today, right?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Right after the show, actually.
We are going to update you, of course, on this plane crash out of Teterboro Airport. We have been covering it all morning, and, as you can see, the rescue workers are underway. This rescue operation, we've been told, underway and firefighters on the scene, as well.
A short break is ahead and then we'll come back to this story and all our other top stories this morning, as well. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Let's take you back live to Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey, the site of a plane crash. You can see the plane right there. The plane, never getting off the ground, ran right through a fence and across Route 46 there in Teterboro and then smack into a warehouse building. That's what you're seeing right here. Firefighters on the scene, trying to put out some of the fire inside the plane. Also, we're told rescue operations, maybe just precautionary, are underway inside that warehouse as well.
A little bit earlier, we heard from Kelly Montague, courtesy of our affiliate WABC TV, who talked a little bit about what she saw. She's an eyewitness to the crash.
KELLY MONTAGUE, EYEWITNESS TO CRASH: I saw the plane smash into Strawberry's. I was at the Bank of America, withdrawing money and once I -- the plane smashed and the front of it just blew. And I was so nervous, instead of making a right to go to the police station out of the bank, I made a left.
There was one car involved. That's it. There was red lights on both sides of 46. There was one car involved. It was going eastbound but facing westbound. There was a guy on the street, right on the grass of Bank of America and there was another gentleman holding his hair up. I don't know -- holding his head up. I don't know where he came from, the car or Strawberry's or whatever. But it's horrifying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you were going to the police station. Are you an officer?
MONTAGUE: No. I went into South Hackensack police station. I turned around and I ran in and they knew nothing about it. And I ran in and I said, there's a plane crash, there's a plane crash and three officers of South Hackensack ran out. There was nobody there when it happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How close is the police station to where the plane?
MONTAGUE: Half a mile, not even. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half a mile, OK.
MONTAGUE: Not even.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you said you saw it head into the building.
MONTAGUE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At what point, Kelly, did you see it, first off? That's the number one question.
MONTAGUE: I saw the tail of the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
MONTAGUE: And it was -- it just -- the front of it hit the building. It was loud. And I don't believe the plane was on fire beforehand. The front of it, because once the thing crashed, I saw all fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kelly I know that...
S. O'BRIEN: Kelly Montague, an eyewitness, describing -- it seem like anyone was even around. She almost sounds like maybe the first person to see this, describing how she ran into a nearby police station to tell them there's been a plane crash. Saying that she saw the plane hit the Strawberry's, which would be the warehouse for a chain clothing store and that she only, remarkably, saw one vehicle involved.
Of course, we're talking about the height of rush hour on Route 46, there, which the plane crashed before it hit the warehouse. Of course, there are lights all along up and down Route 46. At the end of the day, it may have just been the luck of timing that kept many cars not in the path of this plane, as it slammed into the warehouse. Pretty remarkable if that ends up being the case.
HEMMER: At least two motorists, we're told, were taken to hospitals. And that may be one of the luckier things we've watched in this story for the past hour and a half. If you have red lights on Route 46 and only one vehicle in line of this plane as it was crossing the highway.
Laura Brown, spokesperson person for the FAA, also telling CNN, the plane was at full speed, could not get off the ground when it went off the runway and through that steel fence . Headed for Chicago's Midway Airport. And also, we were talking to Miles about the dew points. And why do we talk about that? Because of an issue of the icing, if there's moisture in the air and you're taking off on a morning flight.
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