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American Morning

Reaction to State of the Union Address; On Terror's Trail

Aired February 03, 2005 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: The president standing up now to take the podium. Let's listen in to what the president has to say this morning.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all very much.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

You know, last night was a prayerful occasion.

(LAUGHTER)

I noticed a lot of members were praying that I would keep my speech short.

(LAUGHTER)

I want to thank you for getting up so early in the morning. You resisted temptation to sleep in. Thanks for having us.

I appreciate Jo Ann Emerson's leadership on this prayer breakfast.

(APPLAUSE)

I want to thank Elaine Chao for her prayer and for representing my Cabinet. And I want to thank all my Cabinet officers who are here today.

(APPLAUSE)

I appreciate the leadership of the Congress, Senator Frist and Leader Pelosi, Leader DeLay.

I want to thank the senators who spoke, and appreciate the congresspeople who are on the stage here as well.

I want to thank His Excellency Marc Ravalomanana from Madagascar, the president of that great country.

Welcome to our country, Mr. President.

(APPLAUSE)

Tambien, mi amigo, the president of Honduras, Ricardo Maduro.

Welcome. Glad you're here.

(APPLAUSE)

I want to thank Wintley Phipps for his beautiful music.

(APPLAUSE)

Sergeant Norman, your prayers worked. You did a fantastic job.

(APPLAUSE)

Pretty darn eloquent for a person from Wyoming.

(LAUGHTER)

Don't tell the vice president.

(LAUGHTER)

Tony Hall -- as you can tell, I obviously made the right choice to send somebody over.

Really good job. (APPLAUSE)

And, Janet, thank you for your service as well.

Laura and I are really honored to be here. It's a fabulous moment in our nation's capital.

This morning reminds us that prayer has always been one of the great equalizers in American life.

Here we thank God for his great blessings in one voice, regardless of our backgrounds.

We recognize in one another the spark of the divine that gives all human beings their inherent dignity and worth, regardless of religion.

BUSH: Through fellowship and prayer, we acknowledge that all power is temporary and must ultimately answer to his purposes. And we know that affirming this truth is particularly appropriate in the heart of a capital built upon the promise of self-government.

No one understood this better than Abraham Lincoln.

In November 1864, after being reelected to his second term, Lincoln declared he would be the most shallow and self-conceited blockhead on Earth if he ever thought he could do his job without the wisdom which comes from God and not from men. Throughout a terrible Civil War, he issued many exhortations to prayer, calling upon the American people to humble themselves before their maker and to serve all those in need.

Our faith-based institutions display that same spirit of prayer and service in their work every day. Lincoln's call is still heard throughout the land.

People of faith have no corner on compassion, but people of faith need compassion if they are to be true to their most cherished beliefs. For prayer means more than presenting God with our plans and desires, prayer also means opening ourselves to God's priorities, especially by hearing the cry of the poor and the less fortunate.

BUSH: When the tsunamis hit those on the far side of the world, the American government rightly responded, but the American response is so much more than what our government agencies did.

Look at the list of organizations bringing relief to the people from Indonesia to Sri Lanka; they're full of religious names: Samaritan's Purse, American-Jewish World Service, Baptist World Aid, The Catholic Medical Mission Board. They do a superb job delivering relief across the borders and continents and cultures.

Today, millions of people across this Earth get the help they need only because our faith-based institutions live the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself.

Often that means remembering the people forgotten or overlooked in a busy world: those in Africa suffering from HIV/AIDS, young girls caught up in the global sex trade, victims of religious persecution.

To these great moral challenges of our times, our churches, synagogues, mosques and temples are providing the vision that is changing lives.

I've seen some of their miracles up close.

Last June, I met Veronica Braewell, a 20-year-old refugee from Liberia. As a 13-year-old child, Veronica witnessed armed men killing children in horrific ways. As she fled this madness, Veronica was left for dead atop a pile of bodies until her grandmother found her.

In August 2003, a Catholic social agency helped resettle her in Pennsylvania, where Veronica is now completing the circle of compassion by working in a home for the elderly in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and studying to become a certified nursing assistant.

When Veronica told me of her story, it was through the kind of tears no young woman should ever know. And when she finished, she dried her eyes and said, "Thank you, Mr. President, for my freedom." By I told her, it wasn't me she needed to thank; she needed to thank the good hearts of the United States of America.

The America that embraced Veronica would not be possible without the prayer that drives and leads and sustains our armies of compassion.

I thank you for the fine tradition you continue here today and hope that as a nation we will never be too proud to commend our cares to providence and trust in the goodness of his plans.

God bless.

(APPLAUSE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush making his remarks relatively short. He's speaking at the national prayer breakfast this morning at the Washington Hilton. This is an annual event held the first Thursday in every February, held since 1953.

The president, of course, obviously considering the audience, talking a lot about his own personal faith and the faith of the nation as well. Of course, as many people have said, after the speech, now's the time to sell it. A little bit of an opportunity there at the prayer breakfast to sell exactly what he was talking about in the State of the Union address last night.

This morning, we've brought in two senators to talk with us about their reaction to the speech last night. This morning, we have Senator Richard Lugar joining us, Republican from Indiana. Also, Senator Joe Lieberman, Democrat from Connecticut.

Nice to see you, gentlemen.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), INDIANA: Thank you very much.

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning to you.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in to talk to us. Overall, briefly, give me a sense of what you thought of the speech.

Senator Lugar, let's start with you.

LUGAR: Very strong speech. The president's basic themes he made well. He had a good reception, very strong finish with the lady from Iraq displaying her finger that had been inked at the time of the voting. And likewise, the parents of an American serviceman and the themes of sacrifice and victory.

O'BRIEN: Unscripted moment. I think very moving for many people.

What did you take away from that speech yesterday, Senator Lieberman?

LIEBERMAN: Well, for me, the most stirring part was the last part, which was about our foreign policy and the success in the Iraqi elections, and what we have to do to keep that going. I appreciated very much that the president didn't stop with Iraq in applying the principle of freedom, but gave some very direct warnings to some of those other countries, Iran, Syria, that have been supporting terrorism. And also spoke directly to some of our allies in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and said get with it, your people deserve democracy and self-government as well.

O'BRIEN: He kind of said Saudi Arabia can demonstrate its leadership, which isn't quite get with it. It sort of sounds like a really, really nice version of get with it. Should he think -- do you think he should have been tougher, Senator Lugar?

LUGAR: Well, it was a State of the Union address, not really a diplomatic mission. I think he was tough in respect of the Saudis. And likewise, he talked to the Iranians, speaking directly to the people, that we will support you in your freedom, but obviously you've got some real problems, talking about nuclear weapons.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about Iraq. It was, along with Social Security, I think kind of a headline in the speech last night.

Senator Lieberman, the Democrats have said this -- we want a timetable, we want to know the exit strategy. Nancy Pelosi in her remarks after the speech had this to say. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA) MINORITY LEADER: We have never heard a clear plan from this administration for ending our presence in Iraq. And we did not hear one tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: People will say, well, we're not going to lay out a plan. I mean, doesn't that only help the insurgents. Doesn't he have a point?

LIEBERMAN: He absolutely has a point. I agree with him. I think most Democrats agree with him, including Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate who said you can't have a timetable. If you give a timetable, you tell your enemies your plans. And they can plan accordingly.

Look, the Iraqi people, including those elected on Sunday, know they need us to stay there. But we're doing a much better job at training their military. And that means that the number of American soldiers can begin to go down.

In any war -- and we've learned this over and over again -- you can't set an arbitrary deadline. You stay until the mission is completed. And the good news is we're making real progress in moving toward that date.

O'BRIEN: Another headline, Social Security. And the president really -- I think it's fair to call it a laundry list of things that he wants to tackle. And they sound expensive to me.

I mean, it goes on and on and on and on and on. How will the president pay for these things? I mean, we were short on details last night.

LUGAR: Well, yes. There were many objectives. The president also said, however, he's going to half the deficit by the end of four years. But, at the same time, the arithmetic was not clear.

Now, we have some responsibility over here to work with the president, because the need to try to curtail the deficits, both the foreign trade deficit as well the domestic one, is really imperative. I think the president understands that, but obviously last evening this was not a time for details apparently dollar for dollar.

O'BRIEN: Funny you say dollar for dollar because, of course, in the speech, he actually talked a lot about fiscal responsibility.

LUGAR: Yes.

O'BRIEN: But most people independent of either party will put the price tag for fixing Social Security, if it's done the way the president wants to do it, as $2 trillion over 10 years, I think is the number.

LUGAR: Well, we just don't know yet what the president...

O'BRIEN: It's high.

LUGAR: ... does want to do. And I think there was some -- there were suggestions of elements, the savings business and indexing and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Patrick Moynihan and others. But the plan is not there yet. And so I think most of us are going to want to see what the details are. The American people want to see that.

O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, as always, it's nice to have you chat with us. Kind of our after game of the speech, State of the Union speech. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

LIEBERMAN: Thank you.

LUGAR: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Let's head back to Bill in New York.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. Watching the weather out today. Folks in North Carolina can't get a break. Chad's watching that again. There's moisture again today, there is snow in some parts, anyway, after the ice of a few weeks ago.

Good morning, my friend.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Bill.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: From Alabama this morning, more arrests are expected after a nasty brawl. It happened during a girl's high school basketball game.

A hundred spectators involved in a fight at Prattville High School on Tuesday. Four police officers had to use tasers to subdue the crowd. Police say the brawl may have been linked to an argument between two rival groups from a week ago.

There are also reports of nine arrests so far. More may come today. Ugly from Alabama. A break here in a moment. It was the most emotional moment from the address last night. But for one group watching the speech here with CNN, it also was perhaps the most divisive. We'll look at that today.

And in a moment, how close did U.S. forces get to getting Osama bin Laden before he slipped away? We'll hear from the CIA agent who helped lead that hunt back in late 2001.

AMERICAN MORNING live from New York and Capitol Hill continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: How did Osama bin Laden elude those on the hunt for him three-and-a-half years ago? This week we're going back on "Terror's Trail" to Tora Bora, along the border with Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's where U.S. authorities believe Osama bin Laden slipped away in December of 2001 while American and Afghan forces battled al Qaeda and Taliban fighters.

From Reno, Nevada, this morning, CIA veteran Gary Schroen is my guest now. He was the station chief in Islamabad, Pakistan, on 9/11, led the first CIA team into Afghanistan in pursuit of bin Laden.

A pleasure talking to you, Gary. And good morning to you out there in Nevada.

GARY SCHROEN, LED CIA HUNT FOR BIN LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN: Good morning.

HEMMER: When you went into Afghanistan in September of 2001, did you think you would get him?

SCHROEN: That was our hope. The only problem was we had to defeat the Taliban army and remove the Taliban as a force before we could actually get after bin Laden.

HEMMER: Yes. But, in hindsight, when you get to the area like Tora Bora, December of 2001, was it a mistake in hindsight to allow warlords to go in on the hunt?

SCHROEN: I wouldn't say it was a mistake. It was a matter of necessity. We just simply didn't have the number of forces on the ground that would allow us to attack bin Laden's forces there in Tora Bora and at the same time block the escape routes into Pakistan. And so we had to use the warlords and the local tribals.

HEMMER: Back up just a little bit. Your first answer you said you had hoped you would get him when you went in. Why was there doubt in your mind?

SCHROEN: Because he had been cagey and on the run since 19 -- August of 1998, after the missile strikes were made on his camps in Afghanistan following the bombings in Africa. He was very cagey and incredibly security conscious. HEMMER: You say in this documentary on the Discovery Channel -- I've seen it, by the way. It is excellent. But in that documentary, you said the trail's gone cold. Has it?

SCHROEN: I think that might be the impression given the fact that the Pakistani military offensive in Waziristan last fall came up empty handed. And that the pace of operations on the Pak-Afghan border during the winter months is of necessity very slow and very difficult to do. I can assure you that the hunt for bin Laden is a high priority and is being conducted with as much intensity and dedication as right after 9/11.

HEMMER: Pick up that last point. Three-and-a-half years down the road, how important is it to get him, to capture him or to kill him?

SCHROEN: He's become a symbol I think to this whole world of terrorists out there. His organization has almost become a movement. Each day that goes by that we don't get him helps build that legend of his image and ability. Capturing him, bringing him to justice or killing him would really help damage that image and would be an emotional setback for the terrorists.

HEMMER: Now, do you think that's going to happen?

SCHROEN: I'm confident that we will get him. I couldn't predict when. The conditions along that border area are very difficult, and there are a lot of political activities that need to take place that would help improve our chances.

HEMMER: Well, zero in on that territory for a second. What's Pakistan doing today that would help in that hunt?

SCHROEN: Pakistan was very cooperative -- has been very cooperative in the hunt for bin Laden in the cities. I think there's probably been close to 400 or 500 people captured. In the tribal areas, though, especially in the north above Peshawar, it is very, very difficult for them politically to move in there. And the terrain is incredibly difficult.

HEMMER: Thanks for talking with us. Gary Schroen, wanted to pick your brain on that this morning. It is an excellent documentary. And it brings back a lot of memories of what we've all been reporting on in for the past three-and-a-half years. Gary, thanks for that.

Later tonight you can hear more of Gary's story, other firsthand accounts on the hunt for bin Laden. Discovery Channel comes your way in their spotlight presentation documentary "Osama: Dead or Alive." Tonight at 9:00 Eastern, and again at 9:00 on the West Coast.

Back to Washington. And again, here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Well, it's something you don't hear at most State of the Union addresses, boos. Does the president even have a shot at getting Congress to go along his most ambitious domestic proposal? A look at that is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. We're coming to you live from Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back to "The File" now with Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Bill.

Martha Stewart's headed for primetime, house arrest, ankle bracelet and all, when she goes from the big house to her house in March. NBC announcing that Martha's going to star next season in something called "The Apprentice, Martha Stewart."

The show, of course, modeled on Donald Trump's hugely successful series. That's how we think Martha might look if she adopted the Donald's comb-over.

It will feature Martha wannabes competing for a one-year, $250,000 job with Ms. Stewart's company. Stewart's -- the real winners will be -- no, I'm not going to say that.

HEMMER: Come on. Come on, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Not going to do that. Stewart's backdrop will be her Connecticut farmhouse where she will be under house arrest after she gets out of prison next month. Stewart's new apprentice show will be in addition to the daytime show she's going to do. So prison's been very, very good to Ms. Stewart.

It's the Chinese year of the rooster, and apparently that's not great. Roosters are considered erratic.

And to fight back again the chicken, a Hong Kong company called Life Enhance has hired a feng shui master to design the perfect pair of underwear for people worried about the evil spirits coming from the rooster. The feng shui dude says having something lucky in contact with your skin brings spiritual balance, not to mention a big smile.

The shorts -- the shorts feature a dragon on the front to balance the nature of the rooster. The company's owner says if you have a dragon on your underpants you will be protected.

HEMMER: Get a picture of that.

CAFFERTY: I almost didn't make that one.

Philadelphia Eagles fan Kevin O'Donohue (ph) has taken the word "fan" to the level of fanatical. O'Donohue's (ph) a 36-year-old accountant -- account executive. He mortgaged his house in Pennsylvania to buy a $4,000 hotel and tickets pangage to see the Eagles play the Patriots in Jacksonville on Sunday.

O'Donohue (ph) explained it this way: "Sometimes the credit cards are maxed out and you have to do what you have to do." If Kevin is not single currently, he may be soon. (LAUGHTER)

HEMMER: There's a fan, right?

CAFFERTY: I love that rooster story.

HEMMER: Yes, I like that. And Martha Stewart's going to be huge, by the way. She has this re-launch, gets out of prison, she's got Donald Trump on her side. Come on. The brand will only get bigger.

CAFFERTY: Well, yes, as much heat as she's taking, you've got to give her some credit. She said, you know, I'm not going to wait around forever on these appeals. I've got a five-month sentence, let's get it done, get on with business.

Since then, her stock has almost doubled while she's been in the joint and she's landed two TV shows. That's not a bad way to do hard time in a federal prison.

HEMMER: Harvest (ph) is right around the corner. I'm with you -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

A soldier's mother and an Iraqi woman now linked forever by a moment in time. We're going to meet one of the women who nearly brought tears to everybody who was watching, including the president.

AMERICAN MORNING continues live from Capitol Hill. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired February 3, 2005 - 08:59   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: The president standing up now to take the podium. Let's listen in to what the president has to say this morning.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all very much.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

You know, last night was a prayerful occasion.

(LAUGHTER)

I noticed a lot of members were praying that I would keep my speech short.

(LAUGHTER)

I want to thank you for getting up so early in the morning. You resisted temptation to sleep in. Thanks for having us.

I appreciate Jo Ann Emerson's leadership on this prayer breakfast.

(APPLAUSE)

I want to thank Elaine Chao for her prayer and for representing my Cabinet. And I want to thank all my Cabinet officers who are here today.

(APPLAUSE)

I appreciate the leadership of the Congress, Senator Frist and Leader Pelosi, Leader DeLay.

I want to thank the senators who spoke, and appreciate the congresspeople who are on the stage here as well.

I want to thank His Excellency Marc Ravalomanana from Madagascar, the president of that great country.

Welcome to our country, Mr. President.

(APPLAUSE)

Tambien, mi amigo, the president of Honduras, Ricardo Maduro.

Welcome. Glad you're here.

(APPLAUSE)

I want to thank Wintley Phipps for his beautiful music.

(APPLAUSE)

Sergeant Norman, your prayers worked. You did a fantastic job.

(APPLAUSE)

Pretty darn eloquent for a person from Wyoming.

(LAUGHTER)

Don't tell the vice president.

(LAUGHTER)

Tony Hall -- as you can tell, I obviously made the right choice to send somebody over.

Really good job. (APPLAUSE)

And, Janet, thank you for your service as well.

Laura and I are really honored to be here. It's a fabulous moment in our nation's capital.

This morning reminds us that prayer has always been one of the great equalizers in American life.

Here we thank God for his great blessings in one voice, regardless of our backgrounds.

We recognize in one another the spark of the divine that gives all human beings their inherent dignity and worth, regardless of religion.

BUSH: Through fellowship and prayer, we acknowledge that all power is temporary and must ultimately answer to his purposes. And we know that affirming this truth is particularly appropriate in the heart of a capital built upon the promise of self-government.

No one understood this better than Abraham Lincoln.

In November 1864, after being reelected to his second term, Lincoln declared he would be the most shallow and self-conceited blockhead on Earth if he ever thought he could do his job without the wisdom which comes from God and not from men. Throughout a terrible Civil War, he issued many exhortations to prayer, calling upon the American people to humble themselves before their maker and to serve all those in need.

Our faith-based institutions display that same spirit of prayer and service in their work every day. Lincoln's call is still heard throughout the land.

People of faith have no corner on compassion, but people of faith need compassion if they are to be true to their most cherished beliefs. For prayer means more than presenting God with our plans and desires, prayer also means opening ourselves to God's priorities, especially by hearing the cry of the poor and the less fortunate.

BUSH: When the tsunamis hit those on the far side of the world, the American government rightly responded, but the American response is so much more than what our government agencies did.

Look at the list of organizations bringing relief to the people from Indonesia to Sri Lanka; they're full of religious names: Samaritan's Purse, American-Jewish World Service, Baptist World Aid, The Catholic Medical Mission Board. They do a superb job delivering relief across the borders and continents and cultures.

Today, millions of people across this Earth get the help they need only because our faith-based institutions live the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself.

Often that means remembering the people forgotten or overlooked in a busy world: those in Africa suffering from HIV/AIDS, young girls caught up in the global sex trade, victims of religious persecution.

To these great moral challenges of our times, our churches, synagogues, mosques and temples are providing the vision that is changing lives.

I've seen some of their miracles up close.

Last June, I met Veronica Braewell, a 20-year-old refugee from Liberia. As a 13-year-old child, Veronica witnessed armed men killing children in horrific ways. As she fled this madness, Veronica was left for dead atop a pile of bodies until her grandmother found her.

In August 2003, a Catholic social agency helped resettle her in Pennsylvania, where Veronica is now completing the circle of compassion by working in a home for the elderly in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and studying to become a certified nursing assistant.

When Veronica told me of her story, it was through the kind of tears no young woman should ever know. And when she finished, she dried her eyes and said, "Thank you, Mr. President, for my freedom." By I told her, it wasn't me she needed to thank; she needed to thank the good hearts of the United States of America.

The America that embraced Veronica would not be possible without the prayer that drives and leads and sustains our armies of compassion.

I thank you for the fine tradition you continue here today and hope that as a nation we will never be too proud to commend our cares to providence and trust in the goodness of his plans.

God bless.

(APPLAUSE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush making his remarks relatively short. He's speaking at the national prayer breakfast this morning at the Washington Hilton. This is an annual event held the first Thursday in every February, held since 1953.

The president, of course, obviously considering the audience, talking a lot about his own personal faith and the faith of the nation as well. Of course, as many people have said, after the speech, now's the time to sell it. A little bit of an opportunity there at the prayer breakfast to sell exactly what he was talking about in the State of the Union address last night.

This morning, we've brought in two senators to talk with us about their reaction to the speech last night. This morning, we have Senator Richard Lugar joining us, Republican from Indiana. Also, Senator Joe Lieberman, Democrat from Connecticut.

Nice to see you, gentlemen.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), INDIANA: Thank you very much.

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning to you.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in to talk to us. Overall, briefly, give me a sense of what you thought of the speech.

Senator Lugar, let's start with you.

LUGAR: Very strong speech. The president's basic themes he made well. He had a good reception, very strong finish with the lady from Iraq displaying her finger that had been inked at the time of the voting. And likewise, the parents of an American serviceman and the themes of sacrifice and victory.

O'BRIEN: Unscripted moment. I think very moving for many people.

What did you take away from that speech yesterday, Senator Lieberman?

LIEBERMAN: Well, for me, the most stirring part was the last part, which was about our foreign policy and the success in the Iraqi elections, and what we have to do to keep that going. I appreciated very much that the president didn't stop with Iraq in applying the principle of freedom, but gave some very direct warnings to some of those other countries, Iran, Syria, that have been supporting terrorism. And also spoke directly to some of our allies in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and said get with it, your people deserve democracy and self-government as well.

O'BRIEN: He kind of said Saudi Arabia can demonstrate its leadership, which isn't quite get with it. It sort of sounds like a really, really nice version of get with it. Should he think -- do you think he should have been tougher, Senator Lugar?

LUGAR: Well, it was a State of the Union address, not really a diplomatic mission. I think he was tough in respect of the Saudis. And likewise, he talked to the Iranians, speaking directly to the people, that we will support you in your freedom, but obviously you've got some real problems, talking about nuclear weapons.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about Iraq. It was, along with Social Security, I think kind of a headline in the speech last night.

Senator Lieberman, the Democrats have said this -- we want a timetable, we want to know the exit strategy. Nancy Pelosi in her remarks after the speech had this to say. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA) MINORITY LEADER: We have never heard a clear plan from this administration for ending our presence in Iraq. And we did not hear one tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: People will say, well, we're not going to lay out a plan. I mean, doesn't that only help the insurgents. Doesn't he have a point?

LIEBERMAN: He absolutely has a point. I agree with him. I think most Democrats agree with him, including Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate who said you can't have a timetable. If you give a timetable, you tell your enemies your plans. And they can plan accordingly.

Look, the Iraqi people, including those elected on Sunday, know they need us to stay there. But we're doing a much better job at training their military. And that means that the number of American soldiers can begin to go down.

In any war -- and we've learned this over and over again -- you can't set an arbitrary deadline. You stay until the mission is completed. And the good news is we're making real progress in moving toward that date.

O'BRIEN: Another headline, Social Security. And the president really -- I think it's fair to call it a laundry list of things that he wants to tackle. And they sound expensive to me.

I mean, it goes on and on and on and on and on. How will the president pay for these things? I mean, we were short on details last night.

LUGAR: Well, yes. There were many objectives. The president also said, however, he's going to half the deficit by the end of four years. But, at the same time, the arithmetic was not clear.

Now, we have some responsibility over here to work with the president, because the need to try to curtail the deficits, both the foreign trade deficit as well the domestic one, is really imperative. I think the president understands that, but obviously last evening this was not a time for details apparently dollar for dollar.

O'BRIEN: Funny you say dollar for dollar because, of course, in the speech, he actually talked a lot about fiscal responsibility.

LUGAR: Yes.

O'BRIEN: But most people independent of either party will put the price tag for fixing Social Security, if it's done the way the president wants to do it, as $2 trillion over 10 years, I think is the number.

LUGAR: Well, we just don't know yet what the president...

O'BRIEN: It's high.

LUGAR: ... does want to do. And I think there was some -- there were suggestions of elements, the savings business and indexing and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Patrick Moynihan and others. But the plan is not there yet. And so I think most of us are going to want to see what the details are. The American people want to see that.

O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, as always, it's nice to have you chat with us. Kind of our after game of the speech, State of the Union speech. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

LIEBERMAN: Thank you.

LUGAR: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Let's head back to Bill in New York.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. Watching the weather out today. Folks in North Carolina can't get a break. Chad's watching that again. There's moisture again today, there is snow in some parts, anyway, after the ice of a few weeks ago.

Good morning, my friend.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Bill.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: From Alabama this morning, more arrests are expected after a nasty brawl. It happened during a girl's high school basketball game.

A hundred spectators involved in a fight at Prattville High School on Tuesday. Four police officers had to use tasers to subdue the crowd. Police say the brawl may have been linked to an argument between two rival groups from a week ago.

There are also reports of nine arrests so far. More may come today. Ugly from Alabama. A break here in a moment. It was the most emotional moment from the address last night. But for one group watching the speech here with CNN, it also was perhaps the most divisive. We'll look at that today.

And in a moment, how close did U.S. forces get to getting Osama bin Laden before he slipped away? We'll hear from the CIA agent who helped lead that hunt back in late 2001.

AMERICAN MORNING live from New York and Capitol Hill continues after this.

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HEMMER: How did Osama bin Laden elude those on the hunt for him three-and-a-half years ago? This week we're going back on "Terror's Trail" to Tora Bora, along the border with Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's where U.S. authorities believe Osama bin Laden slipped away in December of 2001 while American and Afghan forces battled al Qaeda and Taliban fighters.

From Reno, Nevada, this morning, CIA veteran Gary Schroen is my guest now. He was the station chief in Islamabad, Pakistan, on 9/11, led the first CIA team into Afghanistan in pursuit of bin Laden.

A pleasure talking to you, Gary. And good morning to you out there in Nevada.

GARY SCHROEN, LED CIA HUNT FOR BIN LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN: Good morning.

HEMMER: When you went into Afghanistan in September of 2001, did you think you would get him?

SCHROEN: That was our hope. The only problem was we had to defeat the Taliban army and remove the Taliban as a force before we could actually get after bin Laden.

HEMMER: Yes. But, in hindsight, when you get to the area like Tora Bora, December of 2001, was it a mistake in hindsight to allow warlords to go in on the hunt?

SCHROEN: I wouldn't say it was a mistake. It was a matter of necessity. We just simply didn't have the number of forces on the ground that would allow us to attack bin Laden's forces there in Tora Bora and at the same time block the escape routes into Pakistan. And so we had to use the warlords and the local tribals.

HEMMER: Back up just a little bit. Your first answer you said you had hoped you would get him when you went in. Why was there doubt in your mind?

SCHROEN: Because he had been cagey and on the run since 19 -- August of 1998, after the missile strikes were made on his camps in Afghanistan following the bombings in Africa. He was very cagey and incredibly security conscious. HEMMER: You say in this documentary on the Discovery Channel -- I've seen it, by the way. It is excellent. But in that documentary, you said the trail's gone cold. Has it?

SCHROEN: I think that might be the impression given the fact that the Pakistani military offensive in Waziristan last fall came up empty handed. And that the pace of operations on the Pak-Afghan border during the winter months is of necessity very slow and very difficult to do. I can assure you that the hunt for bin Laden is a high priority and is being conducted with as much intensity and dedication as right after 9/11.

HEMMER: Pick up that last point. Three-and-a-half years down the road, how important is it to get him, to capture him or to kill him?

SCHROEN: He's become a symbol I think to this whole world of terrorists out there. His organization has almost become a movement. Each day that goes by that we don't get him helps build that legend of his image and ability. Capturing him, bringing him to justice or killing him would really help damage that image and would be an emotional setback for the terrorists.

HEMMER: Now, do you think that's going to happen?

SCHROEN: I'm confident that we will get him. I couldn't predict when. The conditions along that border area are very difficult, and there are a lot of political activities that need to take place that would help improve our chances.

HEMMER: Well, zero in on that territory for a second. What's Pakistan doing today that would help in that hunt?

SCHROEN: Pakistan was very cooperative -- has been very cooperative in the hunt for bin Laden in the cities. I think there's probably been close to 400 or 500 people captured. In the tribal areas, though, especially in the north above Peshawar, it is very, very difficult for them politically to move in there. And the terrain is incredibly difficult.

HEMMER: Thanks for talking with us. Gary Schroen, wanted to pick your brain on that this morning. It is an excellent documentary. And it brings back a lot of memories of what we've all been reporting on in for the past three-and-a-half years. Gary, thanks for that.

Later tonight you can hear more of Gary's story, other firsthand accounts on the hunt for bin Laden. Discovery Channel comes your way in their spotlight presentation documentary "Osama: Dead or Alive." Tonight at 9:00 Eastern, and again at 9:00 on the West Coast.

Back to Washington. And again, here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Well, it's something you don't hear at most State of the Union addresses, boos. Does the president even have a shot at getting Congress to go along his most ambitious domestic proposal? A look at that is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. We're coming to you live from Capitol Hill.

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HEMMER: Welcome back to "The File" now with Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Bill.

Martha Stewart's headed for primetime, house arrest, ankle bracelet and all, when she goes from the big house to her house in March. NBC announcing that Martha's going to star next season in something called "The Apprentice, Martha Stewart."

The show, of course, modeled on Donald Trump's hugely successful series. That's how we think Martha might look if she adopted the Donald's comb-over.

It will feature Martha wannabes competing for a one-year, $250,000 job with Ms. Stewart's company. Stewart's -- the real winners will be -- no, I'm not going to say that.

HEMMER: Come on. Come on, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Not going to do that. Stewart's backdrop will be her Connecticut farmhouse where she will be under house arrest after she gets out of prison next month. Stewart's new apprentice show will be in addition to the daytime show she's going to do. So prison's been very, very good to Ms. Stewart.

It's the Chinese year of the rooster, and apparently that's not great. Roosters are considered erratic.

And to fight back again the chicken, a Hong Kong company called Life Enhance has hired a feng shui master to design the perfect pair of underwear for people worried about the evil spirits coming from the rooster. The feng shui dude says having something lucky in contact with your skin brings spiritual balance, not to mention a big smile.

The shorts -- the shorts feature a dragon on the front to balance the nature of the rooster. The company's owner says if you have a dragon on your underpants you will be protected.

HEMMER: Get a picture of that.

CAFFERTY: I almost didn't make that one.

Philadelphia Eagles fan Kevin O'Donohue (ph) has taken the word "fan" to the level of fanatical. O'Donohue's (ph) a 36-year-old accountant -- account executive. He mortgaged his house in Pennsylvania to buy a $4,000 hotel and tickets pangage to see the Eagles play the Patriots in Jacksonville on Sunday.

O'Donohue (ph) explained it this way: "Sometimes the credit cards are maxed out and you have to do what you have to do." If Kevin is not single currently, he may be soon. (LAUGHTER)

HEMMER: There's a fan, right?

CAFFERTY: I love that rooster story.

HEMMER: Yes, I like that. And Martha Stewart's going to be huge, by the way. She has this re-launch, gets out of prison, she's got Donald Trump on her side. Come on. The brand will only get bigger.

CAFFERTY: Well, yes, as much heat as she's taking, you've got to give her some credit. She said, you know, I'm not going to wait around forever on these appeals. I've got a five-month sentence, let's get it done, get on with business.

Since then, her stock has almost doubled while she's been in the joint and she's landed two TV shows. That's not a bad way to do hard time in a federal prison.

HEMMER: Harvest (ph) is right around the corner. I'm with you -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

A soldier's mother and an Iraqi woman now linked forever by a moment in time. We're going to meet one of the women who nearly brought tears to everybody who was watching, including the president.

AMERICAN MORNING continues live from Capitol Hill. We're back in a moment.

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