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CNN Live At Daybreak

Jack Straw & Condoleezza Rice Press Conference

Aired February 04, 2005 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period and told him that...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: What is it that had Donald Rumsfeld ready to step down not once, but twice? We'll fill you in.

Plus, Condoleezza Rice makes sure her first official visit as secretary of state is with her boss' closest ally.

And an NFL superstar gets emotional. We'll tell you what has Emmitt Smith in tears.

It is Friday, February 4.

This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you.

From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

Now in the news, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw in London. She and Straw answer reporters questions in about 15 minutes, and we'll take you live to London for that.

A search underway in Florida for a couple accused of torturing five of their seven children in their home. Allegations against John and Linda Dollar include pulling out the children's toenails with pliers and keeping the kids severely malnourished.

A search and rescue operation going on right now for an Afghan passenger jet missing during a snowstorm. The U.S. Embassy says at least at least three Americans are believed among the 104 people on the plane. The snowstorm prevented its landing in Kabul.

Pope John Paul II is spending a third day at a hospital in Rome. He has the flu and the Vatican insists he's on the mend. We'll bring you live reports from Rome in about 15 minutes.

To the forecast center now and Chad -- good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

Did you see any snowflakes on the way to work today?

COSTELLO: No, it's rain.

MYERS: Is it rain? Kind of melting there in the city? Some spots around the city still reporting it as snow, but obviously as it melts on the way down, some raindrops or some drizzle drops on the windshield this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: President Bush is waking up and he's in Omaha, Nebraska now. He's stumping in three more states today in a follow-up to his State of the Union address. The president is pushing his plan for private retirement accounts in states he won on the way to reelection but have Democratic senators who oppose his plan. So this morning he's selling his Social Security plan to thousands of people at the Quest Center in Omaha.

Next, President Bush will head to Little Rock, Arkansas to deliver a similar speech and later he'll swing down to Tampa for a final pitch of his reform message. The president says he's convinced when voters realize how much trouble Social Security is in they'll demand action.

Democrats say the president wants to take a guaranteed benefit and turn it into a guaranteed gamble.

Social Security and Iraq may be the two biggest items on the administration's plate.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told Congress the U.S. could pull out as many as 15,000 troops now that the Iraqi election is over. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think we'll be able to come down to the level that was projected before these elections. You know, senator, we overlapped our deployments and extended the, I guess it was OIF3 so that we'd get a bump up of about 50,000 to cover the elections, which I think was a, in hindsight, a prudent thing to do.

We believe that we can come down by that 15,000, which I think would bring us -- General Myers knows the numbers better than I -- I think about 17 brigades and about 135,000, and that's what we are...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: ... making progress in training Iraqi security forces. But in an op-ed piece in this morning's "Wall Street Journal," Rumsfeld sounded a little less optimistic.

He says: "Over time, the performance of Iraq units has been somewhat mixed. Early on in particular, some forces did not perform as well as hoped. But this is not without historical precedent. George Washington repeatedly expressed frustration with poorly trained troops, many of whom fled from battles." A quote from Donald Rumsfeld.

He's also making news with his comments to CNN's Larry King about his previously unknown offer to resign.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has that.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was in May of last year, at the height of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, when the halls of Congress were ringing with calls for Donald Rumsfeld's head.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: And what do you say to those people who are calling for your resignation?

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Needless to say, if I felt I could not be effective, I'd resign in a minute.

MCINTYRE: But what Rumsfeld didn't say then and reveals now for the first time in an interview with CNN's Larry King, is that he did offer to resign, not just once, but twice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")

RUMSFELD: I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period. And I told him that I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on. And he made that decision, and said he did want me to stay on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Secretary, thank you for your hospitality.

MCINTYRE: After a few days of speculation about Rumsfeld's fate, President Bush gave him a public vote of confidence after a Pentagon meeting.

BUSH: You're doing a superb job. You are a strong secretary of defense and our nation owes you a debt of gratitude.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's critics accuse him of setting a tone that allowed the abuse to take place and of authorizing interrogation techniques that are tantamount to torture, a charge he flatly rejects.

(on camera): Rumsfeld told Larry King that while he was startled by the abuse that took place at Abu Ghraib, he had no regrets, arguing that what happened on what he called the midnight shift at the prison could not have been, in his words, managed by someone in Washington.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COSTELLO: U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan has ordered disciplinary action against two officials involved in the Oil For Food Program for Iraq. Annan acted after chief investigator, Paul Volker, released an interim report on corporation in the program. The report says the director of the Oil For Food, Benon Sevan, put himself in grave and continuing conflict of interest situations. Sevan was accused of soliciting Iraqi oil for a small trading company which sold it for a profit. Sevan denies the accusation. Volker stopped short of accusing him of taking kickbacks, but Kofi Annan ordered that Sevan and another U.N. official be disciplined.

The new U.S. secretary of state may have gotten the attention of Iran's ruling mullahs. Condoleezza Rice said the way they treat Iranians is loathsome and the people in Iran should have a say in their own future. Rice made the statement en route to London, where CNN's Robin Oakley is covering her visit -- hello, Robin.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.

Well, Condoleezza Rice emerged from her breakfast talks with Tony Blair looking pretty happy. She's about to have a press conference with Jack Straw, the U.K. foreign secretary. It's -- we're not being told exactly what they talked about over breakfast, but it's pretty clear that they will have discussed the Middle East, that Condoleezza Rice will have been asked to flesh out, to some extent, what President Bush had to say in his inaugural speech and the State of the Union address about tackling tyranny worldwide and spreading democracy in the Middle East.

What she had to say about Iran before she set off for this trip is clearly going to have some reverberations in Europe, because there is a difference in approach. The European Union countries have been trying to engage diplomatically with Iran and persuade that country to -- not to engage in any kind of nuclear arms program. The United States would like rather more robust action on that question.

And I think Condoleezza Rice will be asked by European leaders what President Bush meant when he said that America would stand with those who stood for liberty and freedom in Iran. Does that mean some kind of military action or economic support or just moral pressure?

Also, I think there are differences in treatment of Syria. As far as the E.U. is concerned, they've just done a preferential trade deal, whereas George Bush condemns Syria as a hotbed of harboring terrorism. Also differences on the question of the E.U. resuming arms sales to China.

So all of those questions, I think, will have been discussed with Tony Blair this morning and will be in six other European capitals on Condoleezza Rice's tour -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Robin Oakley live in London this morning.

Thank you. In News Across America this morning, Oregon Republican state senators are proposing changes to drivers licenses. They want potential licensees to provide identification like fingerprints and facial scans. The bill is intended to stem the tide of methamphetamine use, which the senators say is behind 85 percent of all identity theft.

Teams of NFL inspectors are combing Jacksonville in search of counterfeit merchandise. They say to make sure the items have the NFL's special hologram sticker, like the one you're seeing there. So far, 2,400 items have been confiscated. Officials say that one of the most blatant signs of fake merchandise is the misspelling of Super Bowl. It's two words, not one.

Mystery writer Kinky Friedman hopes to write a new chapter in Texas politics. Friedman announced his plans to run for governor in 2006. At his news conference, the independent candidate called for the unconditional surrender of incumbent governor, Rick Perry. He once toured as a musician with Bob Dylan and has since written several mystery novels starring himself.

The Vatican says it will be slow going for the pope and the faithful keep up the prayer vigil. We're going to take you live to Rome for an update on the pontiff's health. That's just ahead at 16 minutes past.

Also, the new secretary of state is on her first official international trip. We'll bring you Condoleezza Rice live from London.

And singers from across the globe take the stage in a massive effort to help. We'll listen in at 49 minutes past.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: With all the Super Bowl hype going on, it's hard to remember there's actually a game to be played. Just as many eyes may be on the half-time show as the game itself. Sir Paul McCartney has some thoughts about his upcoming Super Bowl performance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MCCARTNEY: I think, you know, they have an idea I might not have a wardrobe malfunction. And I can safely tell you I won't, because we're going to play naked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Just think about that for a little while. Let's do it, shall we? In the meantime, a column in the "New York Times" asks for some assurances that McCartney will not pull a Janet. The column pleads: "We were wondering if you could maybe wear something extra over your outfit or maybe under it, like an extra pair of underpants over your usual underpants or maybe a sweater and a second pair of pants over your original pair of pants. Nothing too noticeable, just a little insurance. I'm sure you understand."

Yes, that's in the "New York Times" this morning.

We're going to take you back live to London now, because Condoleezza Rice is there. She just met with Tony Blair and now I understand she's meeting with the foreign secretary, Jack Straw.

You're looking at him now.

Shall we listen in for just a second?

Let's listen in.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: ... on her appointment and her endorsement by the Senate.

In those confirmation hearings before the United States Senate, Secretary Rice said, and I quote, "The time for diplomacy is now." And she's certainly, if I may say so, beginning her program with a formidable program of diplomacy over the next few days here in Europe and in the Middle East.

There's a great deal of work, certainly, to be done, and I look forward to working together with Secretary Rice on the issues which we have discussed this morning, including Iraq; Israel-Palestine; Afghanistan; on Iran, on which I briefed Secretary Rice on the current status of play in terms of the European discussions; E.U.-U.S. relations; and the Sudan. Just a list for starters.

As coalition partners, we've shared the joy of the Iraqi people at their courageous exercise in democracy last weekend. I dare to say that success of the Iraqi elections was celebrated not just by the coalition and the Iraqi people, but by those, too, who questioned the military action which U.S., U.K. and other partners took. And I think that we now have an opportunity to put the divisions behind us and to work with a united international community to support a successful constitutional process.

The Iraqi elections show how widely shared is the belief in freedom and democracy, a key theme of President Bush. And the people of the Ukraine and of Afghanistan sent the same message in their recent elections. And the people of the Palestinian Authority have shown their desire for a better future, too, in their recent presidential election.

We strongly welcome the decision by President Abu-Mazen and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel to meet next Tuesday and we greatly welcome Secretary Rice's decision to attend the meeting which Prime Minister Tony Blair will be hosting here in London on the 1st of March.

We want to use that meeting to help the Palestinians build institutions which they will need to build in turn, and to govern, a viable state. And we want to help Abu-Mazen and his ministers respond effectively to Israel's disengagement from Gaza and the four settlements in the West Bank.

There's a great opportunity now for progress on this issue, which I believe is the most difficult and pressing challenge facing the whole international community. And if both sides seize this opportunity with wholehearted international support, then the goal set by President Bush in a speech three years ago and endorsed by the Security Council of two states living side-by-side in peace can cease to be a vision and truly become a reality.

Thank you.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.

I want very much to thank Prime Minister Blair and Foreign Secretary Straw for hosting me in this productive discussion of our common interests and our common values.

This is my first step on what is, indeed, going to be a bit of a whirlwind around Europe and to the Middle East. I decided to come first to Britain because we have no better friend. We have no better ally. We have done so much together and we still have so much to do together.

We deeply value the close relationship between our two countries and, of course, we share so much. But we, of course, share a global agenda, as well, and we stand together on the war on terror. We have watched remarkable events in Iraq, in the Palestinian territories and in Afghanistan, as people demonstrate once again that the call of freedom, a aspiration for freedom is truly universal.

The United Kingdom and the United States understand that aspiration for freedom and we are determined to support peoples who seek that freedom. By helping people build free and democratic nations, our common efforts will also make us safer, because we have learned time and time again that America, Britain, Europe, the free world is, indeed, safest when freedom is on the march. And when freedom is in retreat we are, indeed, vulnerable.

This is the first stop on a trip to a number of other European capitals. President Bush has emphasized his desire to reinvigorate our relations across Europe, to take our partnership to a new level of support and engagement with those who are on the road to new freedoms. This administration continues its commitment to an enduring and active transatlantic partnership.

On this trip, I will explore how we can effectively address through this partnership the many pressing challenges that confront us all and I especially look forward to discussions about how we can sustain the momentum that is now developing toward the -- to a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, to get back onto the road map and to move ultimately to a two state solution.

I will be returning to London next month to participate in a meeting hosted by Prime Minister Blair at which we hope to make significant strides toward securing a lasting peace for the people of the Palestinian territories and for the Israeli people.

Foreign Secretary Straw, thank you again for your friendship. Thank you for your leadership in these difficult but times -- times of difficulty, but times of opportunity.

I look forward to continuing to work with you.

STRAW: Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Now, questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't we start over here with Reuters.

SAUL HUDSON, REUTERS: Madame Secretary, a year ago, Deputy...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you say who you are, please?

HUDSON: Saul Hudson from Reuters.

Madam Secretary, a year ago in a congressional hearing, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said that the Bush administration does not support regime change in Iran. On the plane, we asked you repeatedly about regime change.

Can you say yes or no? Has the policy changed? Does the Bush administration support regime change in Iran?

And for the foreign secretary, can I ask you, does the U.S. position on Iran actually hamper what you are trying to achieve with the Iranians in the E3, EU3 negotiations? Do you want the United States to directly join those talks?

RICE: First of all, let me state very clearly what we hope to achieve concerning the Iranian regime.

We have complete unity of purpose on a number of points.

First of all, that Iran engages in activities that are destabilizing to the region in which it lives, particularly when it comes to support for terrorism, which is aimed directly at destabilizing and frustrating the Palestinian-Israeli peace which we all seek.

Recently, the European Union and the British took steps to make clear to Hamas that they could not find support in Europe while they were trying to frustrate those activities. So we have complete understanding and agreement on matters of terrorism and the Iranian regime.

Secondly, we are completely unified in our view that Iran should not use the cover of civilian nuclear weapon development and opportunity granted to it by NPT membership to sustain a program that could lead to a nuclear weapon. And, indeed, we and the EU3 have been in very close consultation about the efforts that the EU3 is making to get the Iranians to live up their international obligations. And, frankly, the Iranians ought to take the opportunity that is being presented to them to show that they want to live up to their international obligations.

Third, we have been united in our view that the Iranian regime should have transparent relations with its neighbors in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is nothing wrong with relations between Iran and its neighbors, that would be only natural, but that efforts to undermine in any way democratic developments in those countries would be wrong.

Fourth, we have all been concerned about the abysmal human rights record of the Iranian regime. There are very recent examples of how -- just how abysmal that human rights record is. And we know that this is an Iranian population with a flourishing history and culture and civil society that, frankly, deserves better than to have an unelected few frustrate their aspirations.

And so I find that there is really very little difference between us about the challenges that we face in dealing with the Iranian regime. We have many diplomatic tools still at our disposal and we intend to pursue them fully.

STRAW: Thank you.

And could I just add in support of what Secretary Rice has said that the efforts of the E3 -- France, Germany and the United Kingdom -- in respect of Iran, to the extent that they have worked so far, have only worked because we've been backed by an international consensus. And absolutely fundamental to that international consensus has been the support that we have received in the IAEA board and in many other ways from the United States. And this is a joint diplomatic effort, albeit that three countries are directly involved in the negotiation.

Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.

James Mates.

Could we have a microphone for Mr. Mates, please?

JAMES MATES, ITV CORRESPONDENT: James Mates from ITV News.

Secretary of State, can I ask you to clarify that last answer. Can you envision circumstances during President Bush's second administration in which the United States would attack Iran?

RICE: The question is simply not on the agenda at this point in time. You know, we have diplomatic means to do this. Iran is not immune to the changes that are going on in this region. I think the speculate of Iranians, of Afghans voting in Iran for a free Afghan election, Iraqis voting in Iran for a free Iraqi election, has got to have an effect on an Iranian people who have long been denied the right to do the same. We need to make clear to the Iranian regime that the "elections" in which they are going to engage are understood not to be, in fact, elections that can be supported by an international community that believes that people have a right to really say what they think.

These are our most basic principles. And they apply to the Iranian regime just as they apply to other regimes around the world.

But we believe, particularly in regard to the nuclear issue, that while no one ever asked the American president to take all of his options, to take any option off the table, that there are plenty of diplomatic means at our disposal to get the Iranians to finally live up to their international obligations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go to Andrea Mitchell here.

ANDREA MITCHELL: ... Secretary, Iran's supreme leader, on Thursday, condemned the president's comments in his State of the Union address. And I'm wondering if you could respond to the Iranian comments in the last couple of days about those -- the accusations on the nuclear front and what the president said about human rights.

And Secretary Straw, on the plane flying over, Secretary Rice said that Iran's -- that the diplomatic community and that Europe certainly would agree that Iran's human rights record is to be loathed. Strong words. And do you think that those kinds of words are perhaps not as helpful as they might...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

MITCHELL: ... are not helpful to the European initiative to try to reach a diplomatic solution?

RICE: I don't need to respond to all of what the Iranian regime has said here. I think the Iranian regime's behavior speaks for itself.

This is a regime that has an unelected few who have frustrated the aspirations of a people who have demonstrated time and time again that they want a more democratic future. And that is something that those of us who happen to be on the right side of freedom's divide have got to speak about if we are to say to the Iranian people that you have not been forgotten in our desires to see all peoples free to look toward a -- to look toward liberty and toward their aspirations.

That's what the president said and I think an American president has to continue to say that, and will continue to say that.

As to what has been said about the nuclear problem, it is not just the United States that is concerned about Iranian activities under the guise of civilian nuclear power development, under the NPT. That is why the EU3 has engaged in these discussions with the Iranians, because there is concern. The IAEA has several times noted its concern about these activities.

So it is the Iranians that are isolated on this issue, not the United States.

STRAW: Yes, let me just underline that point. Those who think that this is a matter of concern just to one country or another need to read the IAEA Board of Governor's resolutions, which were passed unanimously by all 35 members of the Board of Governors. And we wouldn't ever have engaged in the EU3 initiative unless there had been a most serious cause for concern behind which there is an international consensus.

And on the issue of human rights, I'd be astonished if Secretary Rice did not have strong feelings about the human rights record of the Iranian regime, because that is shared by us. And we spelt out that in our own annual human rights report. And part of the problem in Iran, which is subject, too, of continuing discussions between the EU3 and the Iranians, is that whilst there was some improvement in the human rights record after Khatami was elected, that has now gone back, backwards. And it's therefore a matter of profound concern.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark Mardell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's BBC.

MARK MARDELL, BBC CORRESPONDENT: Mark Mardell from the BBC.

In your quest for democracy and liberty, what would you say to the unelected few who rule Saudi Arabia, because I think the image of America has sometimes been damaged in the eyes of the world by the feeling that you support dictators that are necessary while opposing those who are offensive to you?

RICE: Well I think the president probably said it best when he said we, when he was at Primall (ph) here, and he said we expect more of our friends. And obviously countries are going to move at their own pace. They are going to move toward the liberalization of their politics in the context of their traditions, religious, historical and others.

No one can seek to impose a particular model or a particular set of solutions to the question of how one answers the aspirations of -- the universal aspirations of people for liberty, the simple right to be able to say what they think. But we do expect that there should be movement toward reform in all of the countries of the Middle East. It's one reason that, with Great Britain's help and that of the G-8, we have formed a forum for the future,...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sure.

RICE: ... which gives not just government a place to talk about reform, but civil society groups and business groups and women's groups. This is a very vital mechanism by which to give those who want to press forward on their aspirations for freedom an international forum in which to do so.

And so this is, from our point of view, a universal principle that people ought to be able to pursue these aspirations. We do understand that the building of democracy takes time. We, in our own history, when I've often said when the founding fathers said we, the people, they didn't mean me. We've come a long way. And others will have to find their way.

But it is an urgent task to put this on the agenda with all states. And, frankly, I've been heartened. I've been heartened by the fact that the Arab League took this up at their summit. I've been heartened by the fact that reforms are taking place in places like Morocco, in Jordan, in Bahrain and other places. And of course the examples of elections in Afghanistan and Iraq, in the Palestinian territories, say that there may be some momentum.

STRAW: Could I just say, just add on this, that I think, Mark, the point you make had some justification against the whole of the West, not just the U.S., at the time of the Cold War. But there has really been a very significant see change (ph).

And as a result of President Bush's initiative, which he took as part of the G-8 presidency, and also the other changes in which the U.S.-U.K. has been in the lead, not least in Afghanistan and Iraq, you can now feel the winds of change blowing through the Arab world. And there are quite significant changes actually taking place now and in the near future in Saudi Arabia.

RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: Peter Mackler (ph), Adjon's French Press (ph). One issue that's, obviously, that there's disagreement between your two countries is on the issue of the Chinese arms embargo where, Foreign Secretary Straw, you said that there's a good likelihood the E.U. is going to lift that embargo within the next couple of months. Madam Secretary, you said the United States is opposed on strategic and also human rights items (ph). Did you discuss the issue? Have you been able to bridge your differences and how are you going to bridge your differences?

RICE: Well we discussed this in Washington, so we did not take it up again here. But let me just say I've been really pleased at the openness with which we have been able to deal with this issue. I feel that the Europeans are listening to our concerns.

STRAW: Yes, we are, yes.

RICE: And that we are in a situation in which we are working to understand each other better and to see how we can move forward. We believe, obviously, that the lifting of the embargo has exactly the effects that you have stated. But of course the important thing with friends is that when there are areas of disagreement that we find the way to talk about them openly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

STRAW: Well I agree with Secretary Rice when she said it wasn't discussed this morning, not least because we discussed it in some detail when I was in Washington 11 days ago. And I made a statement to the House of Commons yesterday in which about U.K.-Europe relations in which this came up. We want to ensure, from a United Kingdom point of view, but I think this is increasingly shared by our E.U. partners, that the justifiable anxieties of the United States are factored into any decision which we make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jerry Lewis (ph).

STRAW: He's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) towards the back.

QUESTION: Jerry Lewis of Israel Radio. Can I ask is there a risk, I'm not trying to be rude, is there a risk of the possibility on Iran that the Iranians can pull the wool over the West's eyes? I was watching Iranian television last night and the same belligerence that has been heard for many months continued, especially on the nuclear issue. There have been very stern warnings everywhere that they are going to continue their nuclear program regardless of what the West thinks.

And associated with that, is there not a real risk that everything that Jack Straw has said recently in trying to get the Iranians to end their support for terrorism has fallen on deaf ears, because it still is continuing -- they're still very negative towards a peace process in the Middle East?

And secondly, could I briefly ask, in the light of the attacks there were on Israeli civilians and soldiers in the last 24 hours, what hope is there to prove that Abu Mazen could absolutely -- I'm sorry, Mahmoud Abbas can actually deliver a peace process which Israel can be feeling secure and the Palestinians can get what they want in their state?

Thank you.

STRAW: Well on your first point, Jerry, yes, of course there's a risk. We wouldn't be engaged in this kind of very tough negotiation with the Iranians, nor would the IAEA board have passed the resolutions that it has passed if there were not a perceived risk by the international community.

To pick up a point made by Secretary Rice that the civil nuclear program, to which, in principle, Iran is entitled under the nonproliferation treaty to pursue, is being used as a cover for a program to build and develop a nuclear weapons program, which it may, surely is banned by the NPT from pursuing.

And precisely because of that risk that one of the parts of the Brussels agreement that was reached in November is that Iran must provide the international community with quite objective guarantees. And we mean objective guarantees about the real purposes and the control on its civil nuclear program.

On the issue of the attacks, which have taken place in the last 24 hours, certainly when I was in Israel, and it's been repeated often since, what the Israeli government are looking for from the Palestinian Authority is -- as they put it -- "100 percent effort by the Palestinians." And they want to be reassured that the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian security is relentless and ruthless in pursuit of the terrorists, whose political aim is as much directed against the elected Palestinian Authority as in practice it is against Israelis.

RICE: I would agree with that. And we can also do our part to help the Palestinians to improve their capabilities to deal with the security situation. I do think that the political atmosphere has changed concerning terrorism with Prime Minister Abbas, given his views on the necessity to have a peaceful resolution of the conflict.

The fact is, though, that there will have to be action to make certain that terrorists cannot continue to frustrate both his plans and to endanger the lives of Israelis. We will have a discussion about security when we're here at the London conference. I will certainly talk about security when I'm there in a couple of days.

The Palestinian security forces need to be unified. There needs to be -- as the Palestinians themselves say -- "one authority, one gun." And there needs also to be -- there will need to be some international effort. And the United States is prepared to play a major role in that to help in the training of the Palestinian security forces and in making sure that they are security forces that are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go to Nicholas Cross (ph).

QUESTION: I'm Nicholas Cross part of "The Washington Times." Madam Secretary, are there any circumstances under which the United States will agree to the ICC taking up the Darfur issue? And, Mr. Secretary, are you backing away from your position that the International Criminal Court here would be the place where the Darfur case will be heard?

RICE: The United States has made very clear its views of the ICC. We are not party to it. We are concerned about unaccountable prosecutors and, therefore, unaccountable prosecutions. We have believed that we are better off with regional and local accountability mechanisms, like the ICTY that has dealt with crimes in the Balkans and Yugoslavia.

We have also, of course, supported their Rwandan tribunal (ph), which I think was a great success for the way in which it held accountable the genestiers (ph) in what was one of the world's recent -- most horrible sets of crimes in recent memory. So we've been very clear that we -- this is how we view it.

We are also very clear that we believe that those who have committed crimes in Sudan have to be held accountable for them. And the mechanism of going to the Security Council to agree on a way forward for that accountability seems, to us, the right forum for that discussion. But American views of the ICC and the dangers of the ICC, of course, not changed.

STRAW: As far as we're concerned, the now position on the ICC is long standing. As Secretary Rice says that we are in complete agreement about the need to see those who have committed these atrocities brought to justice.

Under the ICC statute itself, because Sudan is not a state party to that statute, the matter falls to be decided in the Security Council. All of us know that the natural authority of the international community is greatly strengthened where there is consensus behind a Security Council decision. And that's what we shall be working for to achieve in the Security Council in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phillip Stevens (ph).

QUESTION: International Parliament.

STRAW: He's with International Parliament.

QUESTION: Vice President Cheney said recently that the diplomatic efforts on Iran might be forestalled by an Israeli decision to attack Iran's nuclear plans. I wonder if the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State will do anything to encourage or discourage the Israeli government in that direction?

RICE: Well, first, let me not respond to what was necessarily a paraphrase of what the vice president said, but the point is that the prospect of an Iranian nuclear weapon is deeply destabilizing. It's destabilizing to Iran's neighbors, for very good reasons. It would be destabilizing for peace and security internationally. That is why there has been, I think, now very strong international consensus that Iran cannot be allowed to go down that route.

I would note that in addition to the efforts that Britain, France and Germany are making, we have a robust IAEA process. We still have options under the IAEA process, for instance, for referral to the Security Council of the Iranian case. We, of course, have worked also with the Russians who,...

STRAW: Yes, sure.

RICE: ... in their efforts to cooperate with the Iranians on civilian nuclear power, have been much more attune recently to concerns about the proliferation risk of civilian nuclear power development and have, for instance, insisted on the Iranians signing the additional protocol and on a fuel take back. Which while it does not eliminate the proliferation risk, it certainly does help to mitigate.

So again, it is the Iranians who are isolated if they wish to continue to go down this path. And I will just repeat, the European 3 (ph) has given the Iranians an opportunity to demonstrate that they are serious about living up to their international obligations. They ought to take it.

STRAW: Can I just say that the discussions, which have arisen as a result of the Brussels agreement in November, include the issue of the nuclear dossier. But they also include wider issues, including the need for Iran to change its position in respect of the Middle East and, above all, its neighbors. And it cannot go on, if it wishes to be a full member of the international community, denying the right of one member of the United Nations to exist, which is a fundamental destabilizing aspect of the Middle East situation.

And I've already, in answer to Jerry Lewis, explained why the international community thinks they're a risk, which is to put it mildly, why we got involved in these negotiations with the Iranians. What is now crucial is that Iran understands the strength or feeling of the international community, which is well illustrated by that tough unanimity within the IAEA Board of Governors. And that we, by the process of negotiation, get them to deliver on their obligations, which they have signed up to in the Tehran agreement (ph) in October at 2003 and in the Brussels agreement in November 2004.

Thank you.

RICE: Thank you.

STRAW: Thank you very much, indeed.

RICE: Thank you very much.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And you've been listening to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw speaking in London. Condoleezza Rice is on, you could say it's a world tour, her first official act as Secretary of State. She'll be making stops in Berlin, Warsaw, Rome, Brussels and Luxembourg, and then she'll travel on to the Middle East.

The most interesting line of questioning had to do with Iran. And when asked point blank if the United States would attack Iran, Condoleezza Rice says that question is simply not on the agenda. We have the diplomatic means to do that.

We'll have more for you right after this. You are watching DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired February 4, 2005 - 05:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period and told him that...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: What is it that had Donald Rumsfeld ready to step down not once, but twice? We'll fill you in.

Plus, Condoleezza Rice makes sure her first official visit as secretary of state is with her boss' closest ally.

And an NFL superstar gets emotional. We'll tell you what has Emmitt Smith in tears.

It is Friday, February 4.

This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you.

From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

Now in the news, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw in London. She and Straw answer reporters questions in about 15 minutes, and we'll take you live to London for that.

A search underway in Florida for a couple accused of torturing five of their seven children in their home. Allegations against John and Linda Dollar include pulling out the children's toenails with pliers and keeping the kids severely malnourished.

A search and rescue operation going on right now for an Afghan passenger jet missing during a snowstorm. The U.S. Embassy says at least at least three Americans are believed among the 104 people on the plane. The snowstorm prevented its landing in Kabul.

Pope John Paul II is spending a third day at a hospital in Rome. He has the flu and the Vatican insists he's on the mend. We'll bring you live reports from Rome in about 15 minutes.

To the forecast center now and Chad -- good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

Did you see any snowflakes on the way to work today?

COSTELLO: No, it's rain.

MYERS: Is it rain? Kind of melting there in the city? Some spots around the city still reporting it as snow, but obviously as it melts on the way down, some raindrops or some drizzle drops on the windshield this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: President Bush is waking up and he's in Omaha, Nebraska now. He's stumping in three more states today in a follow-up to his State of the Union address. The president is pushing his plan for private retirement accounts in states he won on the way to reelection but have Democratic senators who oppose his plan. So this morning he's selling his Social Security plan to thousands of people at the Quest Center in Omaha.

Next, President Bush will head to Little Rock, Arkansas to deliver a similar speech and later he'll swing down to Tampa for a final pitch of his reform message. The president says he's convinced when voters realize how much trouble Social Security is in they'll demand action.

Democrats say the president wants to take a guaranteed benefit and turn it into a guaranteed gamble.

Social Security and Iraq may be the two biggest items on the administration's plate.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told Congress the U.S. could pull out as many as 15,000 troops now that the Iraqi election is over. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think we'll be able to come down to the level that was projected before these elections. You know, senator, we overlapped our deployments and extended the, I guess it was OIF3 so that we'd get a bump up of about 50,000 to cover the elections, which I think was a, in hindsight, a prudent thing to do.

We believe that we can come down by that 15,000, which I think would bring us -- General Myers knows the numbers better than I -- I think about 17 brigades and about 135,000, and that's what we are...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: ... making progress in training Iraqi security forces. But in an op-ed piece in this morning's "Wall Street Journal," Rumsfeld sounded a little less optimistic.

He says: "Over time, the performance of Iraq units has been somewhat mixed. Early on in particular, some forces did not perform as well as hoped. But this is not without historical precedent. George Washington repeatedly expressed frustration with poorly trained troops, many of whom fled from battles." A quote from Donald Rumsfeld.

He's also making news with his comments to CNN's Larry King about his previously unknown offer to resign.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has that.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was in May of last year, at the height of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, when the halls of Congress were ringing with calls for Donald Rumsfeld's head.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: And what do you say to those people who are calling for your resignation?

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Needless to say, if I felt I could not be effective, I'd resign in a minute.

MCINTYRE: But what Rumsfeld didn't say then and reveals now for the first time in an interview with CNN's Larry King, is that he did offer to resign, not just once, but twice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")

RUMSFELD: I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period. And I told him that I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on. And he made that decision, and said he did want me to stay on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Secretary, thank you for your hospitality.

MCINTYRE: After a few days of speculation about Rumsfeld's fate, President Bush gave him a public vote of confidence after a Pentagon meeting.

BUSH: You're doing a superb job. You are a strong secretary of defense and our nation owes you a debt of gratitude.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's critics accuse him of setting a tone that allowed the abuse to take place and of authorizing interrogation techniques that are tantamount to torture, a charge he flatly rejects.

(on camera): Rumsfeld told Larry King that while he was startled by the abuse that took place at Abu Ghraib, he had no regrets, arguing that what happened on what he called the midnight shift at the prison could not have been, in his words, managed by someone in Washington.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COSTELLO: U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan has ordered disciplinary action against two officials involved in the Oil For Food Program for Iraq. Annan acted after chief investigator, Paul Volker, released an interim report on corporation in the program. The report says the director of the Oil For Food, Benon Sevan, put himself in grave and continuing conflict of interest situations. Sevan was accused of soliciting Iraqi oil for a small trading company which sold it for a profit. Sevan denies the accusation. Volker stopped short of accusing him of taking kickbacks, but Kofi Annan ordered that Sevan and another U.N. official be disciplined.

The new U.S. secretary of state may have gotten the attention of Iran's ruling mullahs. Condoleezza Rice said the way they treat Iranians is loathsome and the people in Iran should have a say in their own future. Rice made the statement en route to London, where CNN's Robin Oakley is covering her visit -- hello, Robin.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.

Well, Condoleezza Rice emerged from her breakfast talks with Tony Blair looking pretty happy. She's about to have a press conference with Jack Straw, the U.K. foreign secretary. It's -- we're not being told exactly what they talked about over breakfast, but it's pretty clear that they will have discussed the Middle East, that Condoleezza Rice will have been asked to flesh out, to some extent, what President Bush had to say in his inaugural speech and the State of the Union address about tackling tyranny worldwide and spreading democracy in the Middle East.

What she had to say about Iran before she set off for this trip is clearly going to have some reverberations in Europe, because there is a difference in approach. The European Union countries have been trying to engage diplomatically with Iran and persuade that country to -- not to engage in any kind of nuclear arms program. The United States would like rather more robust action on that question.

And I think Condoleezza Rice will be asked by European leaders what President Bush meant when he said that America would stand with those who stood for liberty and freedom in Iran. Does that mean some kind of military action or economic support or just moral pressure?

Also, I think there are differences in treatment of Syria. As far as the E.U. is concerned, they've just done a preferential trade deal, whereas George Bush condemns Syria as a hotbed of harboring terrorism. Also differences on the question of the E.U. resuming arms sales to China.

So all of those questions, I think, will have been discussed with Tony Blair this morning and will be in six other European capitals on Condoleezza Rice's tour -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Robin Oakley live in London this morning.

Thank you. In News Across America this morning, Oregon Republican state senators are proposing changes to drivers licenses. They want potential licensees to provide identification like fingerprints and facial scans. The bill is intended to stem the tide of methamphetamine use, which the senators say is behind 85 percent of all identity theft.

Teams of NFL inspectors are combing Jacksonville in search of counterfeit merchandise. They say to make sure the items have the NFL's special hologram sticker, like the one you're seeing there. So far, 2,400 items have been confiscated. Officials say that one of the most blatant signs of fake merchandise is the misspelling of Super Bowl. It's two words, not one.

Mystery writer Kinky Friedman hopes to write a new chapter in Texas politics. Friedman announced his plans to run for governor in 2006. At his news conference, the independent candidate called for the unconditional surrender of incumbent governor, Rick Perry. He once toured as a musician with Bob Dylan and has since written several mystery novels starring himself.

The Vatican says it will be slow going for the pope and the faithful keep up the prayer vigil. We're going to take you live to Rome for an update on the pontiff's health. That's just ahead at 16 minutes past.

Also, the new secretary of state is on her first official international trip. We'll bring you Condoleezza Rice live from London.

And singers from across the globe take the stage in a massive effort to help. We'll listen in at 49 minutes past.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: With all the Super Bowl hype going on, it's hard to remember there's actually a game to be played. Just as many eyes may be on the half-time show as the game itself. Sir Paul McCartney has some thoughts about his upcoming Super Bowl performance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MCCARTNEY: I think, you know, they have an idea I might not have a wardrobe malfunction. And I can safely tell you I won't, because we're going to play naked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Just think about that for a little while. Let's do it, shall we? In the meantime, a column in the "New York Times" asks for some assurances that McCartney will not pull a Janet. The column pleads: "We were wondering if you could maybe wear something extra over your outfit or maybe under it, like an extra pair of underpants over your usual underpants or maybe a sweater and a second pair of pants over your original pair of pants. Nothing too noticeable, just a little insurance. I'm sure you understand."

Yes, that's in the "New York Times" this morning.

We're going to take you back live to London now, because Condoleezza Rice is there. She just met with Tony Blair and now I understand she's meeting with the foreign secretary, Jack Straw.

You're looking at him now.

Shall we listen in for just a second?

Let's listen in.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: ... on her appointment and her endorsement by the Senate.

In those confirmation hearings before the United States Senate, Secretary Rice said, and I quote, "The time for diplomacy is now." And she's certainly, if I may say so, beginning her program with a formidable program of diplomacy over the next few days here in Europe and in the Middle East.

There's a great deal of work, certainly, to be done, and I look forward to working together with Secretary Rice on the issues which we have discussed this morning, including Iraq; Israel-Palestine; Afghanistan; on Iran, on which I briefed Secretary Rice on the current status of play in terms of the European discussions; E.U.-U.S. relations; and the Sudan. Just a list for starters.

As coalition partners, we've shared the joy of the Iraqi people at their courageous exercise in democracy last weekend. I dare to say that success of the Iraqi elections was celebrated not just by the coalition and the Iraqi people, but by those, too, who questioned the military action which U.S., U.K. and other partners took. And I think that we now have an opportunity to put the divisions behind us and to work with a united international community to support a successful constitutional process.

The Iraqi elections show how widely shared is the belief in freedom and democracy, a key theme of President Bush. And the people of the Ukraine and of Afghanistan sent the same message in their recent elections. And the people of the Palestinian Authority have shown their desire for a better future, too, in their recent presidential election.

We strongly welcome the decision by President Abu-Mazen and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel to meet next Tuesday and we greatly welcome Secretary Rice's decision to attend the meeting which Prime Minister Tony Blair will be hosting here in London on the 1st of March.

We want to use that meeting to help the Palestinians build institutions which they will need to build in turn, and to govern, a viable state. And we want to help Abu-Mazen and his ministers respond effectively to Israel's disengagement from Gaza and the four settlements in the West Bank.

There's a great opportunity now for progress on this issue, which I believe is the most difficult and pressing challenge facing the whole international community. And if both sides seize this opportunity with wholehearted international support, then the goal set by President Bush in a speech three years ago and endorsed by the Security Council of two states living side-by-side in peace can cease to be a vision and truly become a reality.

Thank you.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.

I want very much to thank Prime Minister Blair and Foreign Secretary Straw for hosting me in this productive discussion of our common interests and our common values.

This is my first step on what is, indeed, going to be a bit of a whirlwind around Europe and to the Middle East. I decided to come first to Britain because we have no better friend. We have no better ally. We have done so much together and we still have so much to do together.

We deeply value the close relationship between our two countries and, of course, we share so much. But we, of course, share a global agenda, as well, and we stand together on the war on terror. We have watched remarkable events in Iraq, in the Palestinian territories and in Afghanistan, as people demonstrate once again that the call of freedom, a aspiration for freedom is truly universal.

The United Kingdom and the United States understand that aspiration for freedom and we are determined to support peoples who seek that freedom. By helping people build free and democratic nations, our common efforts will also make us safer, because we have learned time and time again that America, Britain, Europe, the free world is, indeed, safest when freedom is on the march. And when freedom is in retreat we are, indeed, vulnerable.

This is the first stop on a trip to a number of other European capitals. President Bush has emphasized his desire to reinvigorate our relations across Europe, to take our partnership to a new level of support and engagement with those who are on the road to new freedoms. This administration continues its commitment to an enduring and active transatlantic partnership.

On this trip, I will explore how we can effectively address through this partnership the many pressing challenges that confront us all and I especially look forward to discussions about how we can sustain the momentum that is now developing toward the -- to a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, to get back onto the road map and to move ultimately to a two state solution.

I will be returning to London next month to participate in a meeting hosted by Prime Minister Blair at which we hope to make significant strides toward securing a lasting peace for the people of the Palestinian territories and for the Israeli people.

Foreign Secretary Straw, thank you again for your friendship. Thank you for your leadership in these difficult but times -- times of difficulty, but times of opportunity.

I look forward to continuing to work with you.

STRAW: Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Now, questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't we start over here with Reuters.

SAUL HUDSON, REUTERS: Madame Secretary, a year ago, Deputy...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you say who you are, please?

HUDSON: Saul Hudson from Reuters.

Madam Secretary, a year ago in a congressional hearing, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said that the Bush administration does not support regime change in Iran. On the plane, we asked you repeatedly about regime change.

Can you say yes or no? Has the policy changed? Does the Bush administration support regime change in Iran?

And for the foreign secretary, can I ask you, does the U.S. position on Iran actually hamper what you are trying to achieve with the Iranians in the E3, EU3 negotiations? Do you want the United States to directly join those talks?

RICE: First of all, let me state very clearly what we hope to achieve concerning the Iranian regime.

We have complete unity of purpose on a number of points.

First of all, that Iran engages in activities that are destabilizing to the region in which it lives, particularly when it comes to support for terrorism, which is aimed directly at destabilizing and frustrating the Palestinian-Israeli peace which we all seek.

Recently, the European Union and the British took steps to make clear to Hamas that they could not find support in Europe while they were trying to frustrate those activities. So we have complete understanding and agreement on matters of terrorism and the Iranian regime.

Secondly, we are completely unified in our view that Iran should not use the cover of civilian nuclear weapon development and opportunity granted to it by NPT membership to sustain a program that could lead to a nuclear weapon. And, indeed, we and the EU3 have been in very close consultation about the efforts that the EU3 is making to get the Iranians to live up their international obligations. And, frankly, the Iranians ought to take the opportunity that is being presented to them to show that they want to live up to their international obligations.

Third, we have been united in our view that the Iranian regime should have transparent relations with its neighbors in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is nothing wrong with relations between Iran and its neighbors, that would be only natural, but that efforts to undermine in any way democratic developments in those countries would be wrong.

Fourth, we have all been concerned about the abysmal human rights record of the Iranian regime. There are very recent examples of how -- just how abysmal that human rights record is. And we know that this is an Iranian population with a flourishing history and culture and civil society that, frankly, deserves better than to have an unelected few frustrate their aspirations.

And so I find that there is really very little difference between us about the challenges that we face in dealing with the Iranian regime. We have many diplomatic tools still at our disposal and we intend to pursue them fully.

STRAW: Thank you.

And could I just add in support of what Secretary Rice has said that the efforts of the E3 -- France, Germany and the United Kingdom -- in respect of Iran, to the extent that they have worked so far, have only worked because we've been backed by an international consensus. And absolutely fundamental to that international consensus has been the support that we have received in the IAEA board and in many other ways from the United States. And this is a joint diplomatic effort, albeit that three countries are directly involved in the negotiation.

Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.

James Mates.

Could we have a microphone for Mr. Mates, please?

JAMES MATES, ITV CORRESPONDENT: James Mates from ITV News.

Secretary of State, can I ask you to clarify that last answer. Can you envision circumstances during President Bush's second administration in which the United States would attack Iran?

RICE: The question is simply not on the agenda at this point in time. You know, we have diplomatic means to do this. Iran is not immune to the changes that are going on in this region. I think the speculate of Iranians, of Afghans voting in Iran for a free Afghan election, Iraqis voting in Iran for a free Iraqi election, has got to have an effect on an Iranian people who have long been denied the right to do the same. We need to make clear to the Iranian regime that the "elections" in which they are going to engage are understood not to be, in fact, elections that can be supported by an international community that believes that people have a right to really say what they think.

These are our most basic principles. And they apply to the Iranian regime just as they apply to other regimes around the world.

But we believe, particularly in regard to the nuclear issue, that while no one ever asked the American president to take all of his options, to take any option off the table, that there are plenty of diplomatic means at our disposal to get the Iranians to finally live up to their international obligations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go to Andrea Mitchell here.

ANDREA MITCHELL: ... Secretary, Iran's supreme leader, on Thursday, condemned the president's comments in his State of the Union address. And I'm wondering if you could respond to the Iranian comments in the last couple of days about those -- the accusations on the nuclear front and what the president said about human rights.

And Secretary Straw, on the plane flying over, Secretary Rice said that Iran's -- that the diplomatic community and that Europe certainly would agree that Iran's human rights record is to be loathed. Strong words. And do you think that those kinds of words are perhaps not as helpful as they might...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

MITCHELL: ... are not helpful to the European initiative to try to reach a diplomatic solution?

RICE: I don't need to respond to all of what the Iranian regime has said here. I think the Iranian regime's behavior speaks for itself.

This is a regime that has an unelected few who have frustrated the aspirations of a people who have demonstrated time and time again that they want a more democratic future. And that is something that those of us who happen to be on the right side of freedom's divide have got to speak about if we are to say to the Iranian people that you have not been forgotten in our desires to see all peoples free to look toward a -- to look toward liberty and toward their aspirations.

That's what the president said and I think an American president has to continue to say that, and will continue to say that.

As to what has been said about the nuclear problem, it is not just the United States that is concerned about Iranian activities under the guise of civilian nuclear power development, under the NPT. That is why the EU3 has engaged in these discussions with the Iranians, because there is concern. The IAEA has several times noted its concern about these activities.

So it is the Iranians that are isolated on this issue, not the United States.

STRAW: Yes, let me just underline that point. Those who think that this is a matter of concern just to one country or another need to read the IAEA Board of Governor's resolutions, which were passed unanimously by all 35 members of the Board of Governors. And we wouldn't ever have engaged in the EU3 initiative unless there had been a most serious cause for concern behind which there is an international consensus.

And on the issue of human rights, I'd be astonished if Secretary Rice did not have strong feelings about the human rights record of the Iranian regime, because that is shared by us. And we spelt out that in our own annual human rights report. And part of the problem in Iran, which is subject, too, of continuing discussions between the EU3 and the Iranians, is that whilst there was some improvement in the human rights record after Khatami was elected, that has now gone back, backwards. And it's therefore a matter of profound concern.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark Mardell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's BBC.

MARK MARDELL, BBC CORRESPONDENT: Mark Mardell from the BBC.

In your quest for democracy and liberty, what would you say to the unelected few who rule Saudi Arabia, because I think the image of America has sometimes been damaged in the eyes of the world by the feeling that you support dictators that are necessary while opposing those who are offensive to you?

RICE: Well I think the president probably said it best when he said we, when he was at Primall (ph) here, and he said we expect more of our friends. And obviously countries are going to move at their own pace. They are going to move toward the liberalization of their politics in the context of their traditions, religious, historical and others.

No one can seek to impose a particular model or a particular set of solutions to the question of how one answers the aspirations of -- the universal aspirations of people for liberty, the simple right to be able to say what they think. But we do expect that there should be movement toward reform in all of the countries of the Middle East. It's one reason that, with Great Britain's help and that of the G-8, we have formed a forum for the future,...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sure.

RICE: ... which gives not just government a place to talk about reform, but civil society groups and business groups and women's groups. This is a very vital mechanism by which to give those who want to press forward on their aspirations for freedom an international forum in which to do so.

And so this is, from our point of view, a universal principle that people ought to be able to pursue these aspirations. We do understand that the building of democracy takes time. We, in our own history, when I've often said when the founding fathers said we, the people, they didn't mean me. We've come a long way. And others will have to find their way.

But it is an urgent task to put this on the agenda with all states. And, frankly, I've been heartened. I've been heartened by the fact that the Arab League took this up at their summit. I've been heartened by the fact that reforms are taking place in places like Morocco, in Jordan, in Bahrain and other places. And of course the examples of elections in Afghanistan and Iraq, in the Palestinian territories, say that there may be some momentum.

STRAW: Could I just say, just add on this, that I think, Mark, the point you make had some justification against the whole of the West, not just the U.S., at the time of the Cold War. But there has really been a very significant see change (ph).

And as a result of President Bush's initiative, which he took as part of the G-8 presidency, and also the other changes in which the U.S.-U.K. has been in the lead, not least in Afghanistan and Iraq, you can now feel the winds of change blowing through the Arab world. And there are quite significant changes actually taking place now and in the near future in Saudi Arabia.

RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: Peter Mackler (ph), Adjon's French Press (ph). One issue that's, obviously, that there's disagreement between your two countries is on the issue of the Chinese arms embargo where, Foreign Secretary Straw, you said that there's a good likelihood the E.U. is going to lift that embargo within the next couple of months. Madam Secretary, you said the United States is opposed on strategic and also human rights items (ph). Did you discuss the issue? Have you been able to bridge your differences and how are you going to bridge your differences?

RICE: Well we discussed this in Washington, so we did not take it up again here. But let me just say I've been really pleased at the openness with which we have been able to deal with this issue. I feel that the Europeans are listening to our concerns.

STRAW: Yes, we are, yes.

RICE: And that we are in a situation in which we are working to understand each other better and to see how we can move forward. We believe, obviously, that the lifting of the embargo has exactly the effects that you have stated. But of course the important thing with friends is that when there are areas of disagreement that we find the way to talk about them openly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

STRAW: Well I agree with Secretary Rice when she said it wasn't discussed this morning, not least because we discussed it in some detail when I was in Washington 11 days ago. And I made a statement to the House of Commons yesterday in which about U.K.-Europe relations in which this came up. We want to ensure, from a United Kingdom point of view, but I think this is increasingly shared by our E.U. partners, that the justifiable anxieties of the United States are factored into any decision which we make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jerry Lewis (ph).

STRAW: He's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) towards the back.

QUESTION: Jerry Lewis of Israel Radio. Can I ask is there a risk, I'm not trying to be rude, is there a risk of the possibility on Iran that the Iranians can pull the wool over the West's eyes? I was watching Iranian television last night and the same belligerence that has been heard for many months continued, especially on the nuclear issue. There have been very stern warnings everywhere that they are going to continue their nuclear program regardless of what the West thinks.

And associated with that, is there not a real risk that everything that Jack Straw has said recently in trying to get the Iranians to end their support for terrorism has fallen on deaf ears, because it still is continuing -- they're still very negative towards a peace process in the Middle East?

And secondly, could I briefly ask, in the light of the attacks there were on Israeli civilians and soldiers in the last 24 hours, what hope is there to prove that Abu Mazen could absolutely -- I'm sorry, Mahmoud Abbas can actually deliver a peace process which Israel can be feeling secure and the Palestinians can get what they want in their state?

Thank you.

STRAW: Well on your first point, Jerry, yes, of course there's a risk. We wouldn't be engaged in this kind of very tough negotiation with the Iranians, nor would the IAEA board have passed the resolutions that it has passed if there were not a perceived risk by the international community.

To pick up a point made by Secretary Rice that the civil nuclear program, to which, in principle, Iran is entitled under the nonproliferation treaty to pursue, is being used as a cover for a program to build and develop a nuclear weapons program, which it may, surely is banned by the NPT from pursuing.

And precisely because of that risk that one of the parts of the Brussels agreement that was reached in November is that Iran must provide the international community with quite objective guarantees. And we mean objective guarantees about the real purposes and the control on its civil nuclear program.

On the issue of the attacks, which have taken place in the last 24 hours, certainly when I was in Israel, and it's been repeated often since, what the Israeli government are looking for from the Palestinian Authority is -- as they put it -- "100 percent effort by the Palestinians." And they want to be reassured that the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian security is relentless and ruthless in pursuit of the terrorists, whose political aim is as much directed against the elected Palestinian Authority as in practice it is against Israelis.

RICE: I would agree with that. And we can also do our part to help the Palestinians to improve their capabilities to deal with the security situation. I do think that the political atmosphere has changed concerning terrorism with Prime Minister Abbas, given his views on the necessity to have a peaceful resolution of the conflict.

The fact is, though, that there will have to be action to make certain that terrorists cannot continue to frustrate both his plans and to endanger the lives of Israelis. We will have a discussion about security when we're here at the London conference. I will certainly talk about security when I'm there in a couple of days.

The Palestinian security forces need to be unified. There needs to be -- as the Palestinians themselves say -- "one authority, one gun." And there needs also to be -- there will need to be some international effort. And the United States is prepared to play a major role in that to help in the training of the Palestinian security forces and in making sure that they are security forces that are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go to Nicholas Cross (ph).

QUESTION: I'm Nicholas Cross part of "The Washington Times." Madam Secretary, are there any circumstances under which the United States will agree to the ICC taking up the Darfur issue? And, Mr. Secretary, are you backing away from your position that the International Criminal Court here would be the place where the Darfur case will be heard?

RICE: The United States has made very clear its views of the ICC. We are not party to it. We are concerned about unaccountable prosecutors and, therefore, unaccountable prosecutions. We have believed that we are better off with regional and local accountability mechanisms, like the ICTY that has dealt with crimes in the Balkans and Yugoslavia.

We have also, of course, supported their Rwandan tribunal (ph), which I think was a great success for the way in which it held accountable the genestiers (ph) in what was one of the world's recent -- most horrible sets of crimes in recent memory. So we've been very clear that we -- this is how we view it.

We are also very clear that we believe that those who have committed crimes in Sudan have to be held accountable for them. And the mechanism of going to the Security Council to agree on a way forward for that accountability seems, to us, the right forum for that discussion. But American views of the ICC and the dangers of the ICC, of course, not changed.

STRAW: As far as we're concerned, the now position on the ICC is long standing. As Secretary Rice says that we are in complete agreement about the need to see those who have committed these atrocities brought to justice.

Under the ICC statute itself, because Sudan is not a state party to that statute, the matter falls to be decided in the Security Council. All of us know that the natural authority of the international community is greatly strengthened where there is consensus behind a Security Council decision. And that's what we shall be working for to achieve in the Security Council in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phillip Stevens (ph).

QUESTION: International Parliament.

STRAW: He's with International Parliament.

QUESTION: Vice President Cheney said recently that the diplomatic efforts on Iran might be forestalled by an Israeli decision to attack Iran's nuclear plans. I wonder if the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State will do anything to encourage or discourage the Israeli government in that direction?

RICE: Well, first, let me not respond to what was necessarily a paraphrase of what the vice president said, but the point is that the prospect of an Iranian nuclear weapon is deeply destabilizing. It's destabilizing to Iran's neighbors, for very good reasons. It would be destabilizing for peace and security internationally. That is why there has been, I think, now very strong international consensus that Iran cannot be allowed to go down that route.

I would note that in addition to the efforts that Britain, France and Germany are making, we have a robust IAEA process. We still have options under the IAEA process, for instance, for referral to the Security Council of the Iranian case. We, of course, have worked also with the Russians who,...

STRAW: Yes, sure.

RICE: ... in their efforts to cooperate with the Iranians on civilian nuclear power, have been much more attune recently to concerns about the proliferation risk of civilian nuclear power development and have, for instance, insisted on the Iranians signing the additional protocol and on a fuel take back. Which while it does not eliminate the proliferation risk, it certainly does help to mitigate.

So again, it is the Iranians who are isolated if they wish to continue to go down this path. And I will just repeat, the European 3 (ph) has given the Iranians an opportunity to demonstrate that they are serious about living up to their international obligations. They ought to take it.

STRAW: Can I just say that the discussions, which have arisen as a result of the Brussels agreement in November, include the issue of the nuclear dossier. But they also include wider issues, including the need for Iran to change its position in respect of the Middle East and, above all, its neighbors. And it cannot go on, if it wishes to be a full member of the international community, denying the right of one member of the United Nations to exist, which is a fundamental destabilizing aspect of the Middle East situation.

And I've already, in answer to Jerry Lewis, explained why the international community thinks they're a risk, which is to put it mildly, why we got involved in these negotiations with the Iranians. What is now crucial is that Iran understands the strength or feeling of the international community, which is well illustrated by that tough unanimity within the IAEA Board of Governors. And that we, by the process of negotiation, get them to deliver on their obligations, which they have signed up to in the Tehran agreement (ph) in October at 2003 and in the Brussels agreement in November 2004.

Thank you.

RICE: Thank you.

STRAW: Thank you very much, indeed.

RICE: Thank you very much.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And you've been listening to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw speaking in London. Condoleezza Rice is on, you could say it's a world tour, her first official act as Secretary of State. She'll be making stops in Berlin, Warsaw, Rome, Brussels and Luxembourg, and then she'll travel on to the Middle East.

The most interesting line of questioning had to do with Iran. And when asked point blank if the United States would attack Iran, Condoleezza Rice says that question is simply not on the agenda. We have the diplomatic means to do that.

We'll have more for you right after this. You are watching DAYBREAK.

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