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American Morning

Terrorist Attack in Madrid; Pope Remains in Hospital for Ash Wednesday

Aired February 09, 2005 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Terrorists attack a key landmark in the Spanish city of Madrid. Heavy damage and many wounded this morning.
The president trying to win support for his big domestic plans, now accused of picking a needless fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We know when he came here he said he wanted to be a uniter and not a divider. I'm beginning to think that those statements are just absolutely false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: A political tempest with a key Democrat at the center of the storm.

And the droopy pants debate. If a belt won't work, some people say, well, try a law for low riding on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everybody.

Good morning.

Good to have you along with us today.

And good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Good morning to you.

How do those pants stay up? I mean that's kind of always been my question.

HEMMER: It's not easy.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's be grateful they do.

HEMMER: Let's do.

O'BRIEN: Yes, I concur fully.

A car bomb to talk about. An explosion in Madrid, Spain is on our "Security Watch" the first thing this morning. The bomb went off outside a convention center where national and world leaders were scheduled to appear.

Bureau Chief Al Goodman is on the video phone from Madrid for us this morning -- Al, good morning again.

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, well, the Basque separatist group ETA blamed for this car bombing. It has blasted its way right back into the center of the national debate. It had been relatively quiet in recent months. It's come back now with a major car bomb right in a major part of the capital, near the convention center, where later this day, the Spanish king and queen and the visiting president of Mexico are due to inaugurate the annual big annual contemporary art fair, with hundreds of art galleries from Spain and around the world.

Now, about 40 people injured in this car bombing. This six story red brick and glass building behind me took the brunt of it. I counted 40 windows shattered on the side where the car bomb went off.

The interior minister of Spain is speaking at this hour. He's just said there were between 30 and 50 kilos of explosives in that bomb. According to the police experts, that would mean over 100 kilos at the high end of the explosives. And, of course, Soledad, there was a warning call made in the name of ETA to a Basque newspaper earlier today, 35 minutes before the bomb went off.

O'BRIEN: Al Goodman reporting for us this morning.

Al, thank you very much.

And you want to, of course, stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Bill.

HEMMER: Some other stories we're watching this hour, in a moment, Pope John Paul II missing Ash Wednesday services for the first time in his papacy. Earlier this week, we reported that the pope was just minutes away from death when he went to the hospital about a week ago. We'll talk to the man making that claim in a few moments. We'll get you overseas to Rome for that.

O'BRIEN: Also, the rags to riches story of Mark Burnett, the television innovator who brought reality TV to America's prime time lineup. Before he was a big shot producer -- did you know this -- he was a British paratrooper and a nanny. We're going to find out from him how a person goes from literally being just flat broke to being one of the hottest producers in the world. It's an amazing story.

HEMMER: He's got one heck of a story to tell, too.

We'll talk to him.

What's happening, Jack -- good morning.

CAFFERTY: Wednesday, thank you.

Good morning.

Time for "Things People Say" and the "Cafferty File," including a White House employee who was fired for failing to meet the first lady's stylistic requirements, the most ungrateful woman in America and a street full of housewives with no cabooses.

O'BRIEN: What?

Hey, know what that means?

HEMMER: We're going to put it all together, aren't we, Jack?

CAFFERTY: We're going to explain later.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Thank you.

HEMMER: Good.

Thanks.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the headlines now.

Heidi Collins has a check of the stories making news this hour -- good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys.

And good morning to you once again, everybody.

Now in the news this morning, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice expected to hold a live news conference in Brussels, Belgium this hour. Secretary Rice is holding talks today with NATO and other European officials. Among the issues on the agenda, NATO's peacekeeping mission in Afghanistan and the training of soldiers in Iraq. Rice's first trip abroad as secretary of state wraps up tomorrow.

A gun battle between Iraqi forces and insurgents happening in central Baghdad. A column of black smoke was seen rising over the city's skyline. An Iraqi police official says the fighting is taking place in an area that has been the scene of frequent clashes before. That's Haifa Street. Witnesses saying they also heard explosions and gunshots further away, though it is not clear if the black smoke is connected to the battle.

To Lansing, Michigan now. Rescue teams are searching this morning for possible victims after a gas explosion. Police say a car crashed into a building, rupturing a natural gas line, sparking a massive fire, as you see here. It's not clear if all the tenants in the 35-unit complex were able to get out. At least two people have been injured.

And in Sri Lanka, DNA tests are being done now on the little boy known as Baby 81. He's the baby who was found alone after the devastating tsunami in Southeast Asia. Several people have come forward claiming to be the parents. But one couple who filed court papers is now also having those tests done. The baby is expected to stay in the hospital until April, when the test will be reviewed. That's a long time to stay in the hospital, though.

HEMMER: A good story.

Yes, indeed it is, yes.

Thank you, Heidi.

We want to get to Washington right now.

There's a heck of a fight brewing right now. Senator Harry Reid is angry. The Democratic leader is the target of a Republican campaign to paint him as an obstructionist, similar to the tactic that may have helped unseat former leader Tom Daschle.

Senator Reid says he believes President Bush is in control of the people behind the campaign.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: He said he wanted to be a uniter and a divider. I'm beginning to think that those statements are just absolutely false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Now, Democratic sources telling CNN that President Bush told the senator over dinner on Monday night that he knew nothing about the Republican National Committee's effort. Even before the latest hostility, though, President Bush was already pushing his budget proposal uphill.

Dana Bash is live at the White House for this -- Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

And the president's plan or proposal, at least, to cut or outright eliminate 150 government programs is starting to sink in on Capitol Hill. Among the members of Congress who actually have to pass this budget. One Republican law maker called it "courageous" but other Republicans are combing through it, trying to find out exactly how this will affect their constituents back home. And certainly Democrats are quite vocal, most of them, about the fact that they think Mr. Bush's budget unfairly targets the needy and programs like Medicaid and food stamps, even education.

Here's how the Democratic mayor of Baltimore put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), BALTIMORE: Back on September 11, terrorists attacked our metropolitan cores, two of America's great cities. They did that because they knew that that was where they could do the most damage and weaken us the most.

Years later, we are given a budget proposal by our commander-in- chief, the president of the United States, and with a budget axe, he is attacking America's cities. He is attacking our metropolitan core.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, while White House aides say they know full well probably only a fraction of the proposed cuts will actually make it through Congress, they say the president will continue to speak out, as he did, as you're seeing here, in Detroit yesterday, making the case that programs, many of them are redundant or outright not working, and this is necessary to make sure that the American economy is on sound footing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are the kind of reforms that are necessary to earn the trust of the American people and to bring budget discipline. It is essential that those who spend the money in Washington adhere to this principle -- a taxpayer dollar ought to be spent wisely or not spent at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, some Republicans look at the news today, for example, and see that the president's Medicare proposal, or the law that he signed that put a prescription drug benefit in, has exactly almost doubled what he proposed. They say that that is evidence that perhaps they've had a Republican in the White House who has maybe expanded the federal government and not shrunk it, which is the basic Republican philosophy. That is why you will see the White House, the president, continue to speak out and make the case that this budget will cut programs he says are absolutely unnecessary. That is something that the Republican base is very much looking for -- Bill.

HEMMER: We'll continue to watch it. It's not over yet, for a long shot.

Dana, thanks.

Dana Bash at the White House.

Here's Soledad now across the room.

O'BRIEN: Thanks, Bill.

For the first time in his papacy, Pope John Paul II is not presiding over Ash Wednesday prayers at the Vatican. Doctors say that his health is improving, but he remains hospitalized.

Was the pope's condition worse than reported?

Should the pope step down? Those are questions for Robert Moynihan this morning.

He's the editor of "Inside the Vatican."

He's in Washington this morning.

Nice to see you, Robert.

Thanks for talking with us.

Give me a sense of how significant it is, in fact, that the pope is not leading Ash Wednesday prayers for the first time in 26 years.

ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, Ash Wednesday is a very important holy day in the Catholic Church and he has always taken time to distribute ashes on Ash Wednesday. He will receive ashes himself today, but he won't distribute them.

And there you see a picture of Cardinal Stafford, the American cardinal from Denver who is taking his place.

So at the first time the pope has not done it, it means he's not well. He's not strong enough to do it. And it's quite significant.

O'BRIEN: In the article for "Inside the Vatican," you write about what happened, the moments leading up to the pope being rushed into the hospital. You write how his throat was constricted due to this bout with the flu, that he started coughing, that at one point he couldn't breathe. And then you have some quotes, one -- you write in Italian, but I'll give you the English translation -- "We got him by a breath," says a person. "We caught him by a whisker" you say maybe better describes it.

"If he had come in 10 minutes later," you write, "he would have been gone," according to your source.

What were the people -- not specifically, obviously you don't want to name them -- but give me a sense of who these people were who were telling you this.

MOYNIHAN: Doctors at the hospital.

O'BRIEN: They were convinced that the pope would have died literally if he hadn't come in at that time, if he had come in 10 minutes later?

MOYNIHAN: It's their judgment. He was having grave difficulty breathing. What we really have here is a choking story. And everyone knows that that can happen very quickly. And for an hour or two that evening, the pope had trouble breathing. And they were debating whether to bring him to the hospital. And then they decided yes, because he said I'm going to suffocate. I can't breath. And that just is a constriction of the throat.

Once that was overcome, he's back in fine shape for an 84-year- old man. He's weak and everyone knows that, but he's recovering. O'BRIEN: This, of course, this episode was described by a spokesperson for the Vatican as being over dramatized, over sensitized, if you will. I think he said, it was a little bit of a scare was the description they used coming out of the Vatican. Obviously their positioning is critical in all of this, as well.

What do you think is going on here behind-the-scenes?

MOYNIHAN: Well, they were very pleased that it wasn't, in the end, more serious than it was. But they themselves were surprised. They would not have taken him to the hospital and rushed him at 10:30 in the evening unless it was quite serious.

O'BRIEN: All of this has raised the question what happens if the pope is able to survive some kind of medical catastrophe but can't talk, can't communicate in any way? What's the status of these kinds of discussions going on in the Vatican right now?

MOYNIHAN: Well, the first point is that the main function of the pope is to be, not to do. So really he doesn't need to talk. He needs to be the successor of Peter. He needs to be -- the first job description he has is the vicar of Christ, and to do that he needs to pray and just be.

But in the modern papacy, he has other things to do. He does have assistants who can do that and he can, with a nod or with a piece of writing, tell them what he wants them to do.

So the question is if he becomes entirely incapacitated. And modern medicine, as we know, can lead to a condition, which is not the present one, but it can lead to a condition where a man is for some weeks or months in a hospital bed. There are rumors, and I don't know the truth of them, that the pope has signed a letter which he's handed to his personal secretary, Archbishop Dziwisz, who has been at his side for 40 years, and if he is incapacitated or in a coma and it looks irreversible, at that point the letter would be brought forward and there would be a kind of resignation, even though the pope was still alive.

But the fundamental position is the pope will serve until the moment of his death.

O'BRIEN: Robert Moynihan, the editor of "Inside the Vatican," with some fascinating insight into those final moments when the pope was rushed into the hospital.

We appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

MOYNIHAN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Let's go back to Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad.

Fourteen minutes past the hour.

A check of the weather. New York City is really nice in the month of April.

Keep it coming -- Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Does this feel like April?

HEMMER: It's 50 degrees here, for crying out loud.

How are you?

MYERS: Exactly.

And there's a snowstorm back out to the west.

I'm doing fine, Bill.

Welcome back.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Well, ever feel like you buckled under pressure? All the time. Surprisingly, though, it may say something positive about your chances for success. We are "Paging Dr. Gupta" just ahead.

HEMMER: Also from overseas, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice continues her tour. The reviews are flooding in. How is she doing? Kamber and May tackle that.

O'BRIEN: And he worked magic for "The Donald" in "The Apprentice," so what's producer Mark Burnett cooking up for Martha Stewart? The reality TV guru is our guest just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: This business news just in to CNN.

We've got some movement in the technology sector.

Andy is joining us to talk about that -- good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

Kind of a surprise. Computer giant Hewlett-Packard says Carly Fiorina, its CEO, has stepped down as chairman and chief executive of that company. Carly Fiorina, one of the most prominent CEOs in the United States and certainly one of the most high profile female CEOs of that computer company, has resigned this morning, the board has announced.

She had been under a tremendous amount of fire, Soledad, over the past several months, in part because of the failure of the merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq to pay dividends. There are press reports in "Fortune" magazine about that, as well as the "Wall Street Journal."

No replacement has been named yet and we'll be following this story as it develops.

O'BRIEN: And, of course, I think embattled CEO is sort of the right term to use for her. She/'s had a real big struggle for the last couple of months, and even before then.

SERWER: I think that's accurate, yes.

O'BRIEN: We, of course, are going to have more on this throughout the morning.

Andy, thank you very much.

SERWER: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: We appreciate your insight into that breaking news.

And let's head it back to Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad.

Mark Burnett has led a reality revolution in this country. He created "Survivor" and "The Apprentice."

He's got a new book out right now to explain that success. It's called "Jump In Even If You Don't Know How To Swim." This book is all about the journey and the destination.

Mark Burnett is my guest here in New York.

Good morning.

Nice to see you.

MARK BURNETT, AUTHOR, "JUMP IN": Good morning to you.

HEMMER: I wanted to -- I want to talk about your story in a moment here.

Tell me what the craze for reality TV says about America today to you.

BURNETT: Well, I think you have to break down the crappy reality, which is demeaning to people, and stories of...

HEMMER: The crappy reality is everything you do not produce or...

BURNETT: No. No. No. I think anything to do with looking for your birth father, which I think is a serious subject, shouldn't be made into it, a little people dwarf show where they tempt them with a leggy model. I think that's demeaning to people and I don't get involved in that kind of stuff. On the other hand, look at my shows, and other shows, not just my shows, are feel good shows. They're aspirational. "The Apprentice" is aspirational. People really want to work for Donald Trump. They really want that chance at the American Dream, you know?

HEMMER: And they probably want to see how Trump does it, how -- what rules he follows.

But I wonder, does it say something about the producers who are good at writing and developing characters? Or does it say something about what the American viewer is looking for today?

BURNETT: Well, in terms of what I do, there's no writing or developing characters, obviously. We just cast 16 or 18, sometimes, A type leaders. That's all we do. And when you put those 18 leaders in the same place together, they can't all lead. That's where the fireworks come out.

HEMMER: You came to this country at the age of 22...

BURNETT: Yes.

HEMMER: Six hundred bucks in your pocket.

BURNETT: Yes.

HEMMER: A true story?

BURNETT: A true story.

HEMMER: You came here and thought, what, about your own destination?

BURNETT: You know, I was so naive, I didn't realize when I landed in Los Angeles that Hollywood was even in Los Angeles. I really didn't even know that. I had no idea. And I had to get a place to live, a car, a job and some money, of course. And I got a live in job as a nanny, a child care nanny, basically a servant.

The funny thing is now, what, 22 years later, I now live on the same beach where I used to work as a servant. I can see that house.

HEMMER: Now what does the -- is that revenge for you? What is that?

BURNETT: No, they're still my friends, the people I worked for. You know what? It's the American Dream. It says to me, that's why I love this country so much. This country gives you the chance to almost do anything. It really does. If you have ideas -- and that's why I wrote this book, "Jump In," it's just a way to give back and encourage other young people who maybe are from disadvantaged backgrounds, the way I was, to jump in.

HEMMER: A couple of quotes from you. "Over analysis causes paralysis?"

BURNETT: Absolutely.

HEMMER: Don't think about it too much? Take risks? Is that what you're saying?

BURNETT: Do you know, I follow my gut instincts. And you know something? Look, with Donald Trump and "The Apprentice," Donald does the same thing all of the time, he follows his gut instincts. Because, you know, you can get too much information sometimes and over analyze, even over analyze which car to buy, which house to buy, shall I marry that girl? Over analyzing is not a good thing.

HEMMER: Realize half the things will go wrong and accept it?

BURNETT: Absolutely.

HEMMER: That's a tough thing to do for many people.

BURNETT: But you know it's true. Most things do go wrong. Most plans you make don't work out exactly. The job of you is to watch what's happening and if you take action and it kind of goes wrong, take another different action. Some people make a plan, follow the plan into a wall and keep running into the wall.

HEMMER: No matter how hard it hurts.

BURNETT: That's right.

HEMMER: No matter how much your nose is broken.

There's a lot we could talk about, "Survivor," "The Apprentice."

I want to talk about Martha Stewart.

BURNETT: Sure.

HEMMER: You met with her in jail.

BURNETT: Yes.

HEMMER: How is she doing?

BURNETT: She's doing great, as you'd expect from Martha. She doesn't look any different. The same demeanor and just getting on with working in jail. She has a job and she's embracing it. She's the kind of person that's such a winner. She lives in the moment. She's not crying about the past. We've never spoken about her sentence or being roughed in a court case. She's not dwelling on it.

She's just focusing on day to day.

HEMMER: Now, when you put together this new program for her, you said Martha Stewart is going to be bigger than ever.

BURNETT: Absolutely.

HEMMER: What gives you that level of confidence, based on your conversations with her?

BURNETT: You've just got to look at every magazine and newspaper. The interest level is off the charts. She already had millions of loyal fans, Bill. Now, many, many people are waiting to see her come out of jail. So many new people will tune in to get to know her and her fan base will grow.

HEMMER: I don't disagree with you. We'll follow it.

Thanks for coming in.

BURNETT: Thank you.

HEMMER: Mark Burnett.

BURNETT: Thank you.

HEMMER: The book is called "Jump In."

Thanks for sharing with us today.

BURNETT: Thank you.

HEMMER: Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a fish story that's kind of hard to believe. A fisherman puts his wedding ring on a fish's bill and then finds it there two years later. He's going to join us and tell us why that is no lie, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back.

We're back with Jack -- good morning.

CAFFERTY: Good morning.

President Bush says he'll cut the different in half in the next four years, but it's not going to be easy. Bush's Medicare drug benefit now estimated to cost $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years. That's twice the original estimate. Of course, the original estimate came out right before the election last year.

Next year's budget does not include the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the cost of making the tax cuts permanent, or the cost of overhauling Social Security. The budget does call for eliminating or cutting back 150 government programs in order to save money.

Last year, only four out of a proposed 65 government programs were actually axed. Congress hates to do that and they tend not to.

The question is do you believe President Bush can reduce the different by half in the next four years?

Mel rights from Columbus: "Can't form a response. Can't stop laughing/crying."

Stephen in San Jose: "This is the first president in history who should be wearing a mask and a gun. The numbers always add up wrong and always in favor of the corporations, government or the pharmaceutical companies. Say what the public wants to hear and then wait for them to turn their backs. Our country is being robbed, Texas style."

Joel in Appleton, Wisconsin: "I have two words -- federal lottery. Every year have a national lottery that pays out $500 million to the winner. The remaining billions raised in ticket sales could go to fund and/or fix things like Social Security or the prescription drug benefit.

And Brian in Georgetown, Ontario writes: "Yes, if President Bush says he'll cut the different by a half, he will do so. All pigs fueled and ready to fly."

HEMMER: Ready for takeoff.

CAFFERTY: I'd said in the last hour we'll get the different cut in half when pigs fly, so it's a reference to that.

O'BRIEN: A little bit of cynicism this morning. At least that guy is trying to help you out.

CAFFERTY: Oh, yes, right.

O'BRIEN: At least giving you one positive response, if he's not serious.

CAFFERTY: Well, tongue in cheek, yes.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CAFFERTY: We've gotten a couple. I mean, and in fairness to the president, there's an awful lot on his plate -- the war on terror, etc., etc., etc.

But come on, tell the truth. I mean this is mumbo jumbo here.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jack, thank you very much.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Fuzzy math, some say.

The reviews are in. What's the world saying about Condoleezza Rice's debut as secretary of state? Kamber and May join us to take a look.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired February 9, 2005 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Terrorists attack a key landmark in the Spanish city of Madrid. Heavy damage and many wounded this morning.
The president trying to win support for his big domestic plans, now accused of picking a needless fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We know when he came here he said he wanted to be a uniter and not a divider. I'm beginning to think that those statements are just absolutely false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: A political tempest with a key Democrat at the center of the storm.

And the droopy pants debate. If a belt won't work, some people say, well, try a law for low riding on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everybody.

Good morning.

Good to have you along with us today.

And good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Good morning to you.

How do those pants stay up? I mean that's kind of always been my question.

HEMMER: It's not easy.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's be grateful they do.

HEMMER: Let's do.

O'BRIEN: Yes, I concur fully.

A car bomb to talk about. An explosion in Madrid, Spain is on our "Security Watch" the first thing this morning. The bomb went off outside a convention center where national and world leaders were scheduled to appear.

Bureau Chief Al Goodman is on the video phone from Madrid for us this morning -- Al, good morning again.

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, well, the Basque separatist group ETA blamed for this car bombing. It has blasted its way right back into the center of the national debate. It had been relatively quiet in recent months. It's come back now with a major car bomb right in a major part of the capital, near the convention center, where later this day, the Spanish king and queen and the visiting president of Mexico are due to inaugurate the annual big annual contemporary art fair, with hundreds of art galleries from Spain and around the world.

Now, about 40 people injured in this car bombing. This six story red brick and glass building behind me took the brunt of it. I counted 40 windows shattered on the side where the car bomb went off.

The interior minister of Spain is speaking at this hour. He's just said there were between 30 and 50 kilos of explosives in that bomb. According to the police experts, that would mean over 100 kilos at the high end of the explosives. And, of course, Soledad, there was a warning call made in the name of ETA to a Basque newspaper earlier today, 35 minutes before the bomb went off.

O'BRIEN: Al Goodman reporting for us this morning.

Al, thank you very much.

And you want to, of course, stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Bill.

HEMMER: Some other stories we're watching this hour, in a moment, Pope John Paul II missing Ash Wednesday services for the first time in his papacy. Earlier this week, we reported that the pope was just minutes away from death when he went to the hospital about a week ago. We'll talk to the man making that claim in a few moments. We'll get you overseas to Rome for that.

O'BRIEN: Also, the rags to riches story of Mark Burnett, the television innovator who brought reality TV to America's prime time lineup. Before he was a big shot producer -- did you know this -- he was a British paratrooper and a nanny. We're going to find out from him how a person goes from literally being just flat broke to being one of the hottest producers in the world. It's an amazing story.

HEMMER: He's got one heck of a story to tell, too.

We'll talk to him.

What's happening, Jack -- good morning.

CAFFERTY: Wednesday, thank you.

Good morning.

Time for "Things People Say" and the "Cafferty File," including a White House employee who was fired for failing to meet the first lady's stylistic requirements, the most ungrateful woman in America and a street full of housewives with no cabooses.

O'BRIEN: What?

Hey, know what that means?

HEMMER: We're going to put it all together, aren't we, Jack?

CAFFERTY: We're going to explain later.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Thank you.

HEMMER: Good.

Thanks.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the headlines now.

Heidi Collins has a check of the stories making news this hour -- good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys.

And good morning to you once again, everybody.

Now in the news this morning, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice expected to hold a live news conference in Brussels, Belgium this hour. Secretary Rice is holding talks today with NATO and other European officials. Among the issues on the agenda, NATO's peacekeeping mission in Afghanistan and the training of soldiers in Iraq. Rice's first trip abroad as secretary of state wraps up tomorrow.

A gun battle between Iraqi forces and insurgents happening in central Baghdad. A column of black smoke was seen rising over the city's skyline. An Iraqi police official says the fighting is taking place in an area that has been the scene of frequent clashes before. That's Haifa Street. Witnesses saying they also heard explosions and gunshots further away, though it is not clear if the black smoke is connected to the battle.

To Lansing, Michigan now. Rescue teams are searching this morning for possible victims after a gas explosion. Police say a car crashed into a building, rupturing a natural gas line, sparking a massive fire, as you see here. It's not clear if all the tenants in the 35-unit complex were able to get out. At least two people have been injured.

And in Sri Lanka, DNA tests are being done now on the little boy known as Baby 81. He's the baby who was found alone after the devastating tsunami in Southeast Asia. Several people have come forward claiming to be the parents. But one couple who filed court papers is now also having those tests done. The baby is expected to stay in the hospital until April, when the test will be reviewed. That's a long time to stay in the hospital, though.

HEMMER: A good story.

Yes, indeed it is, yes.

Thank you, Heidi.

We want to get to Washington right now.

There's a heck of a fight brewing right now. Senator Harry Reid is angry. The Democratic leader is the target of a Republican campaign to paint him as an obstructionist, similar to the tactic that may have helped unseat former leader Tom Daschle.

Senator Reid says he believes President Bush is in control of the people behind the campaign.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: He said he wanted to be a uniter and a divider. I'm beginning to think that those statements are just absolutely false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Now, Democratic sources telling CNN that President Bush told the senator over dinner on Monday night that he knew nothing about the Republican National Committee's effort. Even before the latest hostility, though, President Bush was already pushing his budget proposal uphill.

Dana Bash is live at the White House for this -- Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

And the president's plan or proposal, at least, to cut or outright eliminate 150 government programs is starting to sink in on Capitol Hill. Among the members of Congress who actually have to pass this budget. One Republican law maker called it "courageous" but other Republicans are combing through it, trying to find out exactly how this will affect their constituents back home. And certainly Democrats are quite vocal, most of them, about the fact that they think Mr. Bush's budget unfairly targets the needy and programs like Medicaid and food stamps, even education.

Here's how the Democratic mayor of Baltimore put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), BALTIMORE: Back on September 11, terrorists attacked our metropolitan cores, two of America's great cities. They did that because they knew that that was where they could do the most damage and weaken us the most.

Years later, we are given a budget proposal by our commander-in- chief, the president of the United States, and with a budget axe, he is attacking America's cities. He is attacking our metropolitan core.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, while White House aides say they know full well probably only a fraction of the proposed cuts will actually make it through Congress, they say the president will continue to speak out, as he did, as you're seeing here, in Detroit yesterday, making the case that programs, many of them are redundant or outright not working, and this is necessary to make sure that the American economy is on sound footing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are the kind of reforms that are necessary to earn the trust of the American people and to bring budget discipline. It is essential that those who spend the money in Washington adhere to this principle -- a taxpayer dollar ought to be spent wisely or not spent at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, some Republicans look at the news today, for example, and see that the president's Medicare proposal, or the law that he signed that put a prescription drug benefit in, has exactly almost doubled what he proposed. They say that that is evidence that perhaps they've had a Republican in the White House who has maybe expanded the federal government and not shrunk it, which is the basic Republican philosophy. That is why you will see the White House, the president, continue to speak out and make the case that this budget will cut programs he says are absolutely unnecessary. That is something that the Republican base is very much looking for -- Bill.

HEMMER: We'll continue to watch it. It's not over yet, for a long shot.

Dana, thanks.

Dana Bash at the White House.

Here's Soledad now across the room.

O'BRIEN: Thanks, Bill.

For the first time in his papacy, Pope John Paul II is not presiding over Ash Wednesday prayers at the Vatican. Doctors say that his health is improving, but he remains hospitalized.

Was the pope's condition worse than reported?

Should the pope step down? Those are questions for Robert Moynihan this morning.

He's the editor of "Inside the Vatican."

He's in Washington this morning.

Nice to see you, Robert.

Thanks for talking with us.

Give me a sense of how significant it is, in fact, that the pope is not leading Ash Wednesday prayers for the first time in 26 years.

ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, Ash Wednesday is a very important holy day in the Catholic Church and he has always taken time to distribute ashes on Ash Wednesday. He will receive ashes himself today, but he won't distribute them.

And there you see a picture of Cardinal Stafford, the American cardinal from Denver who is taking his place.

So at the first time the pope has not done it, it means he's not well. He's not strong enough to do it. And it's quite significant.

O'BRIEN: In the article for "Inside the Vatican," you write about what happened, the moments leading up to the pope being rushed into the hospital. You write how his throat was constricted due to this bout with the flu, that he started coughing, that at one point he couldn't breathe. And then you have some quotes, one -- you write in Italian, but I'll give you the English translation -- "We got him by a breath," says a person. "We caught him by a whisker" you say maybe better describes it.

"If he had come in 10 minutes later," you write, "he would have been gone," according to your source.

What were the people -- not specifically, obviously you don't want to name them -- but give me a sense of who these people were who were telling you this.

MOYNIHAN: Doctors at the hospital.

O'BRIEN: They were convinced that the pope would have died literally if he hadn't come in at that time, if he had come in 10 minutes later?

MOYNIHAN: It's their judgment. He was having grave difficulty breathing. What we really have here is a choking story. And everyone knows that that can happen very quickly. And for an hour or two that evening, the pope had trouble breathing. And they were debating whether to bring him to the hospital. And then they decided yes, because he said I'm going to suffocate. I can't breath. And that just is a constriction of the throat.

Once that was overcome, he's back in fine shape for an 84-year- old man. He's weak and everyone knows that, but he's recovering. O'BRIEN: This, of course, this episode was described by a spokesperson for the Vatican as being over dramatized, over sensitized, if you will. I think he said, it was a little bit of a scare was the description they used coming out of the Vatican. Obviously their positioning is critical in all of this, as well.

What do you think is going on here behind-the-scenes?

MOYNIHAN: Well, they were very pleased that it wasn't, in the end, more serious than it was. But they themselves were surprised. They would not have taken him to the hospital and rushed him at 10:30 in the evening unless it was quite serious.

O'BRIEN: All of this has raised the question what happens if the pope is able to survive some kind of medical catastrophe but can't talk, can't communicate in any way? What's the status of these kinds of discussions going on in the Vatican right now?

MOYNIHAN: Well, the first point is that the main function of the pope is to be, not to do. So really he doesn't need to talk. He needs to be the successor of Peter. He needs to be -- the first job description he has is the vicar of Christ, and to do that he needs to pray and just be.

But in the modern papacy, he has other things to do. He does have assistants who can do that and he can, with a nod or with a piece of writing, tell them what he wants them to do.

So the question is if he becomes entirely incapacitated. And modern medicine, as we know, can lead to a condition, which is not the present one, but it can lead to a condition where a man is for some weeks or months in a hospital bed. There are rumors, and I don't know the truth of them, that the pope has signed a letter which he's handed to his personal secretary, Archbishop Dziwisz, who has been at his side for 40 years, and if he is incapacitated or in a coma and it looks irreversible, at that point the letter would be brought forward and there would be a kind of resignation, even though the pope was still alive.

But the fundamental position is the pope will serve until the moment of his death.

O'BRIEN: Robert Moynihan, the editor of "Inside the Vatican," with some fascinating insight into those final moments when the pope was rushed into the hospital.

We appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

MOYNIHAN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Let's go back to Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad.

Fourteen minutes past the hour.

A check of the weather. New York City is really nice in the month of April.

Keep it coming -- Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Does this feel like April?

HEMMER: It's 50 degrees here, for crying out loud.

How are you?

MYERS: Exactly.

And there's a snowstorm back out to the west.

I'm doing fine, Bill.

Welcome back.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Well, ever feel like you buckled under pressure? All the time. Surprisingly, though, it may say something positive about your chances for success. We are "Paging Dr. Gupta" just ahead.

HEMMER: Also from overseas, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice continues her tour. The reviews are flooding in. How is she doing? Kamber and May tackle that.

O'BRIEN: And he worked magic for "The Donald" in "The Apprentice," so what's producer Mark Burnett cooking up for Martha Stewart? The reality TV guru is our guest just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: This business news just in to CNN.

We've got some movement in the technology sector.

Andy is joining us to talk about that -- good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

Kind of a surprise. Computer giant Hewlett-Packard says Carly Fiorina, its CEO, has stepped down as chairman and chief executive of that company. Carly Fiorina, one of the most prominent CEOs in the United States and certainly one of the most high profile female CEOs of that computer company, has resigned this morning, the board has announced.

She had been under a tremendous amount of fire, Soledad, over the past several months, in part because of the failure of the merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq to pay dividends. There are press reports in "Fortune" magazine about that, as well as the "Wall Street Journal."

No replacement has been named yet and we'll be following this story as it develops.

O'BRIEN: And, of course, I think embattled CEO is sort of the right term to use for her. She/'s had a real big struggle for the last couple of months, and even before then.

SERWER: I think that's accurate, yes.

O'BRIEN: We, of course, are going to have more on this throughout the morning.

Andy, thank you very much.

SERWER: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: We appreciate your insight into that breaking news.

And let's head it back to Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad.

Mark Burnett has led a reality revolution in this country. He created "Survivor" and "The Apprentice."

He's got a new book out right now to explain that success. It's called "Jump In Even If You Don't Know How To Swim." This book is all about the journey and the destination.

Mark Burnett is my guest here in New York.

Good morning.

Nice to see you.

MARK BURNETT, AUTHOR, "JUMP IN": Good morning to you.

HEMMER: I wanted to -- I want to talk about your story in a moment here.

Tell me what the craze for reality TV says about America today to you.

BURNETT: Well, I think you have to break down the crappy reality, which is demeaning to people, and stories of...

HEMMER: The crappy reality is everything you do not produce or...

BURNETT: No. No. No. I think anything to do with looking for your birth father, which I think is a serious subject, shouldn't be made into it, a little people dwarf show where they tempt them with a leggy model. I think that's demeaning to people and I don't get involved in that kind of stuff. On the other hand, look at my shows, and other shows, not just my shows, are feel good shows. They're aspirational. "The Apprentice" is aspirational. People really want to work for Donald Trump. They really want that chance at the American Dream, you know?

HEMMER: And they probably want to see how Trump does it, how -- what rules he follows.

But I wonder, does it say something about the producers who are good at writing and developing characters? Or does it say something about what the American viewer is looking for today?

BURNETT: Well, in terms of what I do, there's no writing or developing characters, obviously. We just cast 16 or 18, sometimes, A type leaders. That's all we do. And when you put those 18 leaders in the same place together, they can't all lead. That's where the fireworks come out.

HEMMER: You came to this country at the age of 22...

BURNETT: Yes.

HEMMER: Six hundred bucks in your pocket.

BURNETT: Yes.

HEMMER: A true story?

BURNETT: A true story.

HEMMER: You came here and thought, what, about your own destination?

BURNETT: You know, I was so naive, I didn't realize when I landed in Los Angeles that Hollywood was even in Los Angeles. I really didn't even know that. I had no idea. And I had to get a place to live, a car, a job and some money, of course. And I got a live in job as a nanny, a child care nanny, basically a servant.

The funny thing is now, what, 22 years later, I now live on the same beach where I used to work as a servant. I can see that house.

HEMMER: Now what does the -- is that revenge for you? What is that?

BURNETT: No, they're still my friends, the people I worked for. You know what? It's the American Dream. It says to me, that's why I love this country so much. This country gives you the chance to almost do anything. It really does. If you have ideas -- and that's why I wrote this book, "Jump In," it's just a way to give back and encourage other young people who maybe are from disadvantaged backgrounds, the way I was, to jump in.

HEMMER: A couple of quotes from you. "Over analysis causes paralysis?"

BURNETT: Absolutely.

HEMMER: Don't think about it too much? Take risks? Is that what you're saying?

BURNETT: Do you know, I follow my gut instincts. And you know something? Look, with Donald Trump and "The Apprentice," Donald does the same thing all of the time, he follows his gut instincts. Because, you know, you can get too much information sometimes and over analyze, even over analyze which car to buy, which house to buy, shall I marry that girl? Over analyzing is not a good thing.

HEMMER: Realize half the things will go wrong and accept it?

BURNETT: Absolutely.

HEMMER: That's a tough thing to do for many people.

BURNETT: But you know it's true. Most things do go wrong. Most plans you make don't work out exactly. The job of you is to watch what's happening and if you take action and it kind of goes wrong, take another different action. Some people make a plan, follow the plan into a wall and keep running into the wall.

HEMMER: No matter how hard it hurts.

BURNETT: That's right.

HEMMER: No matter how much your nose is broken.

There's a lot we could talk about, "Survivor," "The Apprentice."

I want to talk about Martha Stewart.

BURNETT: Sure.

HEMMER: You met with her in jail.

BURNETT: Yes.

HEMMER: How is she doing?

BURNETT: She's doing great, as you'd expect from Martha. She doesn't look any different. The same demeanor and just getting on with working in jail. She has a job and she's embracing it. She's the kind of person that's such a winner. She lives in the moment. She's not crying about the past. We've never spoken about her sentence or being roughed in a court case. She's not dwelling on it.

She's just focusing on day to day.

HEMMER: Now, when you put together this new program for her, you said Martha Stewart is going to be bigger than ever.

BURNETT: Absolutely.

HEMMER: What gives you that level of confidence, based on your conversations with her?

BURNETT: You've just got to look at every magazine and newspaper. The interest level is off the charts. She already had millions of loyal fans, Bill. Now, many, many people are waiting to see her come out of jail. So many new people will tune in to get to know her and her fan base will grow.

HEMMER: I don't disagree with you. We'll follow it.

Thanks for coming in.

BURNETT: Thank you.

HEMMER: Mark Burnett.

BURNETT: Thank you.

HEMMER: The book is called "Jump In."

Thanks for sharing with us today.

BURNETT: Thank you.

HEMMER: Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a fish story that's kind of hard to believe. A fisherman puts his wedding ring on a fish's bill and then finds it there two years later. He's going to join us and tell us why that is no lie, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back.

We're back with Jack -- good morning.

CAFFERTY: Good morning.

President Bush says he'll cut the different in half in the next four years, but it's not going to be easy. Bush's Medicare drug benefit now estimated to cost $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years. That's twice the original estimate. Of course, the original estimate came out right before the election last year.

Next year's budget does not include the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the cost of making the tax cuts permanent, or the cost of overhauling Social Security. The budget does call for eliminating or cutting back 150 government programs in order to save money.

Last year, only four out of a proposed 65 government programs were actually axed. Congress hates to do that and they tend not to.

The question is do you believe President Bush can reduce the different by half in the next four years?

Mel rights from Columbus: "Can't form a response. Can't stop laughing/crying."

Stephen in San Jose: "This is the first president in history who should be wearing a mask and a gun. The numbers always add up wrong and always in favor of the corporations, government or the pharmaceutical companies. Say what the public wants to hear and then wait for them to turn their backs. Our country is being robbed, Texas style."

Joel in Appleton, Wisconsin: "I have two words -- federal lottery. Every year have a national lottery that pays out $500 million to the winner. The remaining billions raised in ticket sales could go to fund and/or fix things like Social Security or the prescription drug benefit.

And Brian in Georgetown, Ontario writes: "Yes, if President Bush says he'll cut the different by a half, he will do so. All pigs fueled and ready to fly."

HEMMER: Ready for takeoff.

CAFFERTY: I'd said in the last hour we'll get the different cut in half when pigs fly, so it's a reference to that.

O'BRIEN: A little bit of cynicism this morning. At least that guy is trying to help you out.

CAFFERTY: Oh, yes, right.

O'BRIEN: At least giving you one positive response, if he's not serious.

CAFFERTY: Well, tongue in cheek, yes.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CAFFERTY: We've gotten a couple. I mean, and in fairness to the president, there's an awful lot on his plate -- the war on terror, etc., etc., etc.

But come on, tell the truth. I mean this is mumbo jumbo here.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jack, thank you very much.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Fuzzy math, some say.

The reviews are in. What's the world saying about Condoleezza Rice's debut as secretary of state? Kamber and May join us to take a look.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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