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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE

Current Events at the United Nations

Aired February 18, 2005 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bad news doesn't get better with age and it is the kind of issue that peacekeeping missions cannot afford to suppress.

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: There may be one or two bad apples, but I don't think we should use that tie-up the entire peacekeeping operations

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was the commander of 40 men, 40 men who go into the territories and are at the checkpoints every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN HOST: No sex, please. I'm with the United Nations.

Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth.

Well, it is much more than that in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in Africa, where U.N. peacekeepers and personnel are accused of terrorizing the people they were supposed to protect.

This week, Morocco announced it arrested six of its soldiers serving in Congo for allegedly sexually abusing young girls. This past year, the United Nations has investigated 150 cases involving 50 soldiers of various nationalities in Congo for sexual exploitation of young girls and women. It turned into Food for Sex for the desperate living in Congo.

Now the U.N. secretary-general has imposed a new non- fraternization policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNAN: Zero tolerance policy and we have urged the troops to be careful not to fraternize with these vulnerable people. And I think we are taking further measures, and other governments have taken steps to punish some of those involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Last weekend, an American TV network showed video of young women being loaded into a U.N. vehicle outside a bar, allegedly with U.N. officials nearby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have had some preliminary indications that the secretary-generals announcement of this policy is a little bit slow to filter down among the ranks, so we are considering a number of ways of ramming home that message to every peacekeeper in every mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Is it a few bad apples, as the secretary-general said at the top of our program? Or is it the whole tree that's rotten?

Let's ask the Assistant Secretary-general for Peacekeeping Operations at the U.N. Jane Holl Lute. Her career has ranged from the Army to working with the Ted Turner inspired United Nations Foundation, an army of a different kind.

How bad is a Congo sex abuse connection now, Ms. Holl Lute, after weeks of inquiry?

JANE HOLL LUTE, U.N. ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL: It is true that the allegations in the Congo really represent a handful of persons in a very large mission. But behavior of this kind anywhere discredits peacekeeping everywhere and we're determining to stamp it out.

ROTH: So what are the latest numbers? How deep is it?

HOLL LUTE: There are dozens of allegations that are being investigated at the moment and to date eight civilian cases have been referred for additional action here at headquarters. 14 soldiers have been repatriated and several contingent commanders have been put on notice to show cause for the command climate that they have created that allows this kind of behavior to go on.

ROTH: Two years ago there were reports of this happening in Congo. Why did it take so long for the United Nations to act?

HOLL LUTE: This is a fair question and we have to be held accountable for why it seems to have taken so long. In fact, we recognize that this kind of behavior is not new, either to the Congo or to peacekeeping more recently. It has plagued operations before. And we recognize also that it has been associated with large growth in peacekeeping.

In the '90s, one of the lessons was ambitions cannot outstrip our capacity or we pay a price. We recognize this and tried to undertake some measures in 2002 and 2003 to strengthen discipline. Be recognize now that these measures were inadequate and we need to engage more systematically, more comprehensively, together with the member states, to ensure that this behavior simply does not occur and that piece keepers up hold the duty of care they owe to the people we serve.

ROTH: Now, some of this obviously before you joined the United Nations, but the United Nations has been under a huge cloud for scandals of all sorts of things. How does this Congo sex abuse scandal now effect the United Nations?

HOLL LUTE: I can speak to you on my own behalf and echo the outrage that the secretary-general has himself personally expressed and the outrage of every other professional peacekeeper.

Again, this behavior anywhere discredits peacekeeping everywhere. And that is unfortunate because peacekeeping has a fine tradition, a proud tradition, as one of the world's most noble callings, and we're determining to restore that.

ROTH: Now, we saw on this ABC network footage last weekend U.N. officials in a van marked U.N. with women after hours and then you saw U.N. Representative William Swing say, well, that's news to me. I'm going to check into it. Did you personally hear of that episode? And has there been a change in the last new days?

HOLL LUTE: We were made aware that people continue to violate policy. Congo is a country that is the size of Western Europe without the roads. It is a huge place.

ROTH: So is this another case where the mandate is not specific and you don't have the supplies, like it seems at every other U.N. agency that has been hit by scandal is blaming the Security Council for saying you didn't give us what we need.

HOLL LUTE: No. We're taking responsibility for this and we're taking responsibility for the behavior of our peacekeepers in mission areas. We have some who continue not to get the word or act as if they don't have the word. We're making clear that that is an excuse to no one. Fundamentally they have personal and professional responsibilities that we're going to require that they uphold.

ROTH: People may not be familiar with it, but this is -- if a company took in employees, they would have control of it. But you don't have any real way of punishing or controlling these peacekeepers you get from countries, right? Shouldn't that whole system be junked?

HOLL LUTE: The whole system needs to be looked at carefully, and we are in dialogue with the member states about our shared responsibility in this regard. The United Nations gets credit when things go well and we accept the responsibility with things don't go well, and together with the member states we are going to look at how we can put in place structural reforms so that those who engage in this kind of behavior and those who set the command climate and the broader mission climate where this goes on are held to account.

ROTH: All right, now you've got a French national who is now facing charges in France. He worked for the United Nations in Congo, took pictures, hundreds of pictures, acts with young girls. You don't really have any control. If he is let off or given two months, what can you do about that?

HOLL LUTE: Well, he has been under arrest in his national authority, as you mentioned, and others have been arrested as well. We welcome the recent announcement of Morocco that they have arrested six former members and are going to hold them to account and South Africa has taken action also.

ROTH: It was a big deal a couple of years ago when Ambassador Holbrook of the United States included in future resolutions of the Council that each peacekeeper -- check me on this -- gets a condom. Now look at what has happened. What are you going to do to improve the quality of the peacekeeper and what is the impact also on AIDS and other things in area?

HOLL LUTE: Let's be clear. The condoms are handed out because HIV/AIDS is a problem in many of our mission areas, especially Africa. But they don't...

ROTH: Well, did they get the wrong message?

HOLL LUTE: ... come wrapped in permission slips for engaging in this kind of behavior and we certainly don't condone it. So we are determined to -- there are a number of measures that we're putting in place to ensure that peacekeepers understand their professional responsibilities and that there commanders understand these responsibilities as well.

ROTH: Aren't senior U.N. officials who are in the Congo mission, aren't they also now caught in this dragnet? A security officer, an investigative personnel, top security chief -- aren't they also...

HOLL LUTE: As I mentioned, eight civilian cases have been referred for action and a number of other investigations are ongoing.

ROTH: I mean, these where gang rapes, sexual assaults, people lured to homes, all for something like a cup of coffee, right?

HOLL LUTE: This is behavior that disgusts us all. And we're determining to stamp it out.

ROTH: What about the United Nations taking responsibility for babies that have now been born because of the rapes committed by peacekeepers?

HOLL LUTE: The Department of Peacekeeping Operations has been in touch with UNICEF to help ensure the victims receive the emergency assistance that they need. UNICEF is operating with implementing partners abroad a range of services for rape victims in the Congo and the victims of these kinds of crimes will be included in those services as well. This is behavior that we are determined to stamp out and we need the cooperation and support of the member states.

ROTH: Are you glad you came over from the Turner Foundation to U.N. Peacekeeping for this?

HOLL LUTE: It is a privilege to serve.

ROTH: Jane Holl Lute, assistant secretary general for peacekeeping at the United Nations, thank you very much for being on DIPLOMATIC LICENSE.

HOLL LUTE: Thank you.

ROTH: You always hear U.N. diplomats and reporters say, well, what are the lessons learned from this catastrophe or this debacle. The Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations, Louise Frechette, has already decided what the lesson learned is from the Oil For Food corruption scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUISE FRECHETTE, U.N. DEPUTY SECRETARY-GENERAL: I hope to God we never get another Oil For Food program or anything approaching that kind of responsibility, which was tantamount to trying to oversee the entire import/export regime of a country of 24 million people. That is a tall order. I do think that we have learned a lot of lessons from that experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BRAKE)

ROTH: Feel dirty after watching a reality show? Look down on programs such as "Blind Date" and "The Bachelor"? How about a diplomacy themed reality show? You're watching "The Ambassador," an Israeli television production. Young Israelis competing for a job to sell the image of Israel to the world.

We asked CNN's Paula Zahn -- well, not really, but we'd like to think so -- to tell us more about the program "The Ambassador: Selling a Country's Message." But first, you've got to get the job.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Contestants had to find a creative way to sell their message, and a weak performance led to the boardroom. Someone was fired at the end of each episode. Sounds familiar?

While "The Apprentice" tests contestants ability to sell lemonade on the street, or handle office politics, "The Ambassador" finalists have learned that selling real politics is a lot harder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is that when you sell lemonade, nobody hates lemonade, nobody is going to say that your lemonade occupies territories or that your lemonade kills babies.

ZAHN: Three months later only three had made it here, to try out for the role of unofficial ambassadors, New York style.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're shooting a reality show and one of us is going to be future ambassador of Israel.

ZAHN: Among their final tests, freestyle hip hop with high school students, impressing the mayor of New York, taking their cause to a basketball court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: The finale of "The Ambassador" is this Sunday night in Israel.

Joining us is the man who will be the boss of the eventual winner. He is Joey Low, on the left of your screen. A New York businessman, he runs Israel at Heart, a pro-Israel advocacy group.

And with him in our Jerusalem studio, a man whose face was also familiar to the world during the first Gulf War, Nachman Shai, who is the chief judge on the panel that will select the winner. Welcome to both of you. Joey Low, what is the real purpose of this program, "The Ambassador"?

JOEY LOW, ISRAEL AT HEART: To let Israelis understand how they are looked at around the world. When you live here in Israel you don't always understand the way people perceive you from abroad.

ROTH: Now, you got the idea from "The Apprentice," the Trump program, but there are differences. I mean, does anybody say "You're fired" or, you know, "Shabot shalom"? What do they say at the end of the program?

NACHMAN SHAI, "THE AMBASSADOR" JUDGE: We say leave your file here, or the portfolio, on the table, and leave the studio. That is what we used to say, and we have said it so for 10 times, 11 actually, and on Sunday we'll say it another twice, and the 14th candidate, whoever it is, will be the winner and they will be going to New York, and thanks to Joey and his organization, he or she will serve there as a year as (UNINTELLIGIBLE) information officer for Israel.

ROTH: All right, Nachman...

LOW: I would just like to add that I am very happy...

ROTH: I was just going to ask Nachman there -- there are only a few people watching. So who is the winner? You have three left.

SHAI: No, no. We don't know who the winner is. We will do it only at the last moment on the set on Sunday evening.

ROTH: All right. That sounds like our program. I can imagine. Joey, tell us what you were going to say there.

LOW: I was just going to say that I am very happen that Nachman and Rina and Yaakov are the ones who is deciding each week who is leaving the show, because it is a very difficult task, a lot of responsibility, and they take it very seriously.

ROTH: At the United Nations for years, you know, Joey, the Israeli message to any impartial observer not exactly getting through, especially in the mid to late '90s. It was almost as if Israel didn't care -- Palestinians doing a very good job of getting their message across. This program, does it mean that the professionals are just not cutting it and that you have to turn to the amateurs?

LOW: Well, I think that was the original reason we started Israel at Heart, is we felt that the message really wasn't getting out. And this show really takes it to another level. It lets Israelis on a much wider scale, it lets people around the world realize that even Israelis admit that all are certain problems. The fact that they are facing up to it is very encouraging. The fact that, you know, Nachman and the group who are really overseeing the whole thing, the producers. Really seem to care a lot about the fact that Israel is not seen the way it should be and the way they know that it can be.

SHAI: I think also this is the best timing for the program because -- it is the ideal timing because, you know, something changed in the Middle East in the past few weeks and it is time for us to speak public diplomacy, to talk to each other.

There is a soft power and a hard power. We are very good at hard power. Let's see if we can use soft power as well, talk to the world. Talk to the Palestinians and find new roads. And this is a problem that hopefully will produce more of this way of thinking in Israel.

ROTH: I'm sure there would be critics out there who would say it is a tough sell because Israel has been occupying lands illegally and even more critics might say why don't you knock down the homes of the losing candidates, a policy that has just been changed this week.

Joey Low, what do you say to that?

LOW: Look, I love Israel, and what bothers me is I know that the Israel that I love has many, many positive things. Does that mean that we support everything that they do? Definitely not. This show isn't about politics. And that's another reason that I really agreed to participate. It's about choosing a face of Israel that the public sees.

You know, you can question policies that people on the left, people of the right. I'm saying, look at Israelis. These are good people who are faced with very difficult circumstances. Do you know how you would react when you were put in that situation? Judge people not how you are, sitting in the United States and looking at Israel and judging by your standards. Look at these Israelis who, you know, you're watching on television and understand and appreciate the circumstances they live under. I think they'll be judged much more fairly in that case.

ROTH: Joey, what kind of candidate do you want to see working for you, without going into who you think should win? Briefly, what are the specialties you want to see?

SHAI: I don't want to hear this.

LOW: I think it is fair to say the job that has been done till now leaves something, from my point of view, to be desired. I think the most important thing is someone who people like, someone who is warm. Someone who gets a message across. Obviously, it has to be someone with knowledge and experience and that's important, but if it was the most important quality, I would say it was emotion -- showing emotion, getting across that we are nice, soft, people who care.

ROTH: Nice, soft people? When I was in New York -- even for New Yorkers, you go to Israel and there is a lot of hustle and bustle and people are pretty direct. Do you also have to work on the image of some Israelis when they go abroad, whether it is this ambassador or not? Or is it time for the world to speed up the pace?

LOW: Well, first, I think, we've taken about 250 university students around the world from Israel and you would be surprised at how many wonderful Israelis there are who aren't that typical Israeli that you imagine as being, you know, cutting you off on the road or, you know, cutting you off in the middle of the sentence, the more aggressive type. I mean, that is a stereotype and I am telling you, there are many, many Israelis who are such good people -- sensitive peeping, caring people.

The image of, you know, seeing a young child throwing a stone in the Israeli army, it is one of strength, and I'm saying there are many Israelis who travel with us who care an awful lot about the way they are be seeing, who care an awful lot about the way Palestinians are being treated, and the world should know that.

SHAI: What the program is doing, Richard, ask it opens the way for more Israelis to be participating in Israeli advocacy Many of us travel abroad. Not all of us are officials. But each one of us can do something in order to explain, to speak on behalf of Israel and to build up more sympathy towards Israel. That is what the program did in Israel, for us Israelis...

ROTH: Let me just be a stereotypical program host and also cut you off, not on the road, but here.

Nachman Shai, I mean, you talked to the world in '91. What makes a good ambassador when you are going before the cameras or in the job place? What is your advice?

SHAI: Carrying a message, bringing a message, doing short and sweet, just to the point. Know what you want to say and say it...

ROTH: But what if the country's message, though, is something that people just don't like? I mean, the U.S. ambassadors around the world sold a message during the run up to this last Gulf War, and they may have been nice people, but America is still heated in several places.

SHAI: I think that we are not doing such a bad job in terms of Israeli advocacy. Let's make it clear. But I believe that we should find a way now to struggle, to fight, with the new Palestinian advocacy, which is very successful. And the new situation in Israel, we are suddenly the Goliath and they are the David and they suffer and they pay the price, whatever.

And we are talking to you in a studio on Jaffa Street, where there are more explosions in the past few years than any other part of the world. So we have paid the price, we have paid a lot to be standing today here and to say to ourselves and to the world we are right, you should support us and we'll do our best to solve this prolonged conflict with the Palestinians peacefully.

ROTH: And shorter answers will be needed when they are the ambassador. Why is nobody above the age it seems of 32 and nobody looks like us, Mr. Shai, on this program? They all look like models.

SHAI: First of all, young Israelis look better than us, Richard, you should know this. Even nicer than me. And secondly, this is a new generation and I'm very proud to be a judge on this program and to be the one that will be helping to select one of them. They represent the new face of Israel, the nice face of Israel. Not necessarily the official face of Israel. The face of Israel that we would like every American and everyone in the world to see and to like.

LOW: Also, you know, when you talk about ambassador...

ROTH: Very briefly, Mr. Low.

LOW: We're talking about an ambassador that is not a position from the government. This is a person who is going to work in an organization which believes in thinking out of the box, which believes in changing the way the regular people think that an ambassador should be. So when you hear the word, just think that...

ROTH: Yes, we understand. We also know that you couldn't take our program's name, DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, that was taken. So you had to go with "The Ambassador."

We could go on, but we're going to have to stop. Good luck to all it contestants. On the left of your screen is Joey Low. He will be receiving the winner, and maybe we'll have the winner here in the studio and put that person to some hard questions.

Nachman Shai is on the right. He is going to be leading the discussions to pick the winner of "The Ambassador" program. Thank you, both of you.

As the old game show line goes, time to tell your "Ambassador" show victor what they'll win. You could become a real-life ambassador, like John Negroponte, who spent 40 years in hot spots around the world.

It seems like a dream job, representing the United States at the Security Council, but beware what they tell you to say about weapons of mass destruction. Nevertheless, you could be sent to Iraq, as Negroponte later was, but then keep those bags packed. This week, President Bush appointed Negroponte as the country's new director of intelligence. He oversees 15 separate intelligence agencies, just like he tried for 15 to nothing votes when at the Security Council.

(COMMERCIAL BRAKE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANS LUBBERS, U.N. REFUGEE AGENCY: I must admit when I would meet Mrs. Annan, who was always a good friend. She was visit me, probably I would lead her out of the room the same way I did. But I am very cautious now with women I don't know. But her, I know, and I will continue to be the gentleman I was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: That's the U.N. refugee agency chief not fleeing from the press corps in New York explaining how he now treats women who he might be interested in displaying friendly affection for.

According to the "Independent" newspaper in London on Friday, Lubbers was found guilty of misconduct by U.N. investigators of sexual harassment and intimidation, but Kofi Annan last year gave him just a warning. A woman in Geneva claimed Lubbers touched her inappropriately when leaving his office. Lubbers had a meeting already set with Kofi Annan on Friday, the day the article appeared. He said Annan didn't tell him he was fired and he continued to deny the allegations.

In fact, in one of the most oddest moments seen at a United Nations press take out ever, the Dutch former prime minister demonstrated upon request what kind of touching occurred that day in his office. The demonstration prompted by our own contributing DIPLOMATIC LICENSE correspondent James Bone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES BONE, JOURNALIST: Mr. Lubbers, to set the record straight, you have said that you made a friendly gesture to the woman. Can you demonstrate to us what a friendly gesture is? Can you show us what happens?

LUBBERS: Come here. Are you afraid of me?

BONE: Well, slightly, I have to say, yes I am.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Well, it may come down to what kind of touch in Geneva occurred. Barring a dismissal or new allegations, Lubbers term ends later this year. He is headed to the Great Lakes region in Africa now to do what he says is his real work.

That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth in New York. Thanks for watching.

END

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