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CNN Live Saturday

FDA Votes to Allow Resume Selling of Vioxx; Interview with Fred Thompson; U.S., Japan Meet To Talk About Asian Security Issues

Aired February 19, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 on the East Coast, 11:00 on the West. I'm Andrea Koppel at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta. In for Fredricka Whitfield.
Ahead this hour, CNN security watch, the U.S. and Japan talk security, and North Korea's not the only subject on the table.

Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friends get hit. That's when my heart starts racing and my stomach gets woozy, because the art is just a show, but we live in this movie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: A documentary film blurs the line between real life and art.

And later, the similarities between politics and show business from one of the people who knows best. Former Senator Fred Thompson makes a guest appearance on the Novak Zone.

All that's ahead, but first a look at the headlines now in the news.

A second deadly day of attacks in Iraq during Ashura, the Shiite holy period. A series of 5 bombings in Baghdad killed 23 people, while in Baqubah, another attack killed 3. We'll have the latest from Iraq with CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in just a moment.

In his weekly radio address, President Bush said he plans to reaffirm the importance of transatlantic relations in an upcoming trip to Europe. Bush is scheduled to leave tomorrow. Relations between the U.S. and many European nations worsened because of widespread opposition to the war in Iraq.

A first for Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon. Sharon gave an interview to an Arab newspaper for the first time since he became prime minister in 2001. Sharon told the Egyptian al Ahram Newspaper if calm prevailed between Israelis and Palestinians, negotiations could begin toward a final settlement.

Keeping you informed CNN, the most trusted name in news. For a second day, a wave of attacks across Iraq most were suicide bombings, most of them happened in Baghdad and they came on Shiite Muslim's holiest day. At last count, the 6 attacks killed 26 people, including a U.S. soldier. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson files a late report from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Eight different suicide bombers in Baghdad, focusing their attentions on the Shia Muslims on their way to commemorate the Ashura festival at the Kathimain Mosque in the north of Baghdad.

An attack early in the afternoon near the mosque, an insurgent fired a rocket-propelled grenade at a police car. Immediately, Iraqi security forces called in U.S. troops. They went to secure the area, but as they did that, a suicide bomber detonated his explosives, killing one U.S. soldier, wounding another, killing also in the same blast 4 Iraqis, wounding 22 more Iraqis.

A little earlier in the day, 3 suicide bombers had approached a group of worshippers, detonating their explosives, killing 5, wounding 40.

Later in the day, as worshippers were leaving the Kathimain area. Again, 3 suicide bombers approached the worshippers, this time Iraqi security officials intercepting them. One of the suicide bombers managed to detonate his explosives, killing an Iraqi soldier. The other suicide bomber shot dead, and the other one detained.

And a little earlier in the day, a suicide bomber riding a bicycle had ridden into a tent where mourners were waiting for a funeral. Three people killed there, 38 wounded.

But overall, the Ashura festival this year far less violent than last year when 141 Shias were killed in violent attacks around the the holy shrine in Baghdad of Kathimain and in the holy city of Karbala to the south. This year in Karbalah, the insurgents apparently unable or unwilling to penetrate the security there. There were no violent acts reported in that city. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: A U.S. Senate delegation is in Iraq today meeting with U.S. military leaders, Iraqi officials and local women leaders. Senator John McCain is leading the bipartisan group that includes Senators Susan Collins, Lindsey Graham, Hilary Rodham Clinton and Russ Feingold.

Both Clinton, a Democrat, and McCain, a Republican, have been critical of the Pentagon's management of the war. After they're meetings today, they both expressed cautious optimism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I think we have an opportunity to succeed. And I want to emphasize again, there's none of us who have visited here who wish to understate or underappreciate the enormity of the task that lies ahead of us.

SEN. HILARY CLINTON, (D) NEW YORK: The impression that I take away from just this short visit, after talking with not only a government officials, but some of our military and civilian leaders here in Iraq, is cautious optimism. Cautious, because there are so many challenges ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The senators are scheduled to visit several military bases in Iraq today before heading home.

In a break with the past, North Korea says it is not interested at the moment in holding direct talks with the United States on the issue of its nuclear program. That word from a Chinese news agency in Beijing.

Earlier this month, North Korea announced it has nuclear weapons and is prepared to build more. At the same time, it refused to take part in talks with the United States and 4 other countries demanding one-on-one talks with the U.S. instead.

North Korea's nuclear threat plus tensions between China and Taiwan, are among a number of issues on the agenda today during meetings in Washington. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are holding talks with their Japanese counterparts. We get more details from CNN's Elaine Quijano at the White House. Good afternoon, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Andrea.

And those meetings have resulted in a joint statement by the U.S. and Japan. Specifically, both countries expressing what they say is their deep concern over North Korea.

Now, in particular, the statement saying that North Korea's nuclear program represents a threat to the stability of the region, including Japan. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that there's always been concern on this issue, and that it's time for the North Koreans to take seriously that concern. She also reiterated the U.S.'s belief that while North Korea appears to be isolating itself from the international community, there are ways it can improve its relations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: What is there is a forum called the six-party talks. And the North Koreans do have a path to a better relationship with the international community. And I would hope they would take it.

We will, of course, have to look beyond if that day comes. But at this point, we believe that the international community is united in saying to the North Koreans that they should return to the talks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Another item on the agenda for the U.S. and Japan, China. Today Japanese officials expressed their wish that China put more pressure on its neighbor North Korea rather than acting as just a mediator.

Japan has also watched nervously as the Chinese have taken steps to build up their military. The concern is that any chinese action toward Taiwan, which it considers a renegade province, could destabilize the region. Well, today in that joint statement with the U.S., Japan declared Taiwan as a common security issue. That's significant, because in the past Japan has pretty much left that issue to others.

And while the U.S. has expressed its own concerns about China emerging as a super power, after today's meeting, U.S. officials have suggested that perhaps China can be run into the larger world community through a network of relations -- relationships with other countries. And perhaps that may be the best path to making sure that there is peace and stability in that region -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Elaine, were there any ideas that the, either the Japanese or the U.S. side came out publicly with as to how to get North Korea back to the table, considering that not only have they rejected the multi-party talks, but they're also saying they don't want to talk to the U.S.?

QUIJANO: Right. At this particular point, the United States holding firm to what it has said all along, and that is, it believes the best route for North Korea to take is through the six-party talks. But beyond that, no specifics offered.

Now, the Japanese, of course, are watching this, as we said, quite closely, because they are in close proximity. And they have in the past, the fact that they have come forward now really signifies their deepening concern. Although Secretary Rice was careful to say there's always been worry on the issue.

But the intention by the U.S. now is to really send a message that they in fact only see the six-party talks as the avenue for North Korea to take.

KOPPEL: Elaine, thanks so much. Elaine Quijano at the White House.

And just ahead in a few minutes, we'll have an expert on East Asian affairs, Kenneth Lieberthal who will join me to talk more about this effort by the United States and Japan to stand together on issues that affect both countries.

In Thailand, former Presidents Bush and Clinton are touring tsunami devastated areas. The two are helping lead and coordinate tsunami relief efforts in the U.S. to bring aid to tsunami victims. CNN's Aneesh Raman is covering the story now in Thailand. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kicking off a three-day tour through the region, former Presidents Clinton and Bush arrived in Phuket to witness firsthand the lingering aftermath of December tsunami. In the village of Bannamkam (ph), school children presented the two with drawings of the waves crashing down, waves that killed their parents.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE United States: The one that gave me hers had lost her mother and all of this puts a very human face on this tragedy.

RAMAN: But amidst the emotions, an inspirational site, the village which lost close to half of its residents is being reborn. The former presidents also laid a wreath at the Wall of Remembrance, all day, reminding people that despite their at times contentious political history, this was a nonpartisan, human mission.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But on issues about which there could be no debate. That little girl that gave him the picture, you know, of her mother drowning, that's not something to politically debate.

RAMAN: Days after the tsunami hit, the current president called on Clinton and Bush Senior to lead a fundraising effort in the United States. But now almost two months since the disaster, this visit is meant to combat donor fatigue, reminding Americans the giving cannot stop and showing leaders in the region America remains ready to help.

CLINTON: What we have to do now is not to forget these people in places when all of the cameras are not there. I think that's the most important message I could say to the American people.

RAMAN: From Phuket, the former presidents will travel onward to Indonesia and Sri Lank on Sunday before a final stop on Monday in the Maldives.

(on camera): For tsunami survivors, this trip is essential in keeping focus on their plate. There will be no definable end to the reconstruction; instead it is simply a new reality, the success of which is highly contingent upon the world never forgetting the events of December 26.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, Phuket, Thailand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And make sure to join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow when he welcomes former Presidents Clinton and Bush to "LATE EDITION." You can see that interview beginning tomorrow at noon Eastern.

North Korea's not the only reason for concern in East Asia. Up next, we'll look at China's growing military power and the threat it poses to Taiwan.

Also ahead, potential new dangers for U.S. women in the military. One coming from within their own ranks.

And later, a court rules against two journalists. Why it's a blow to the public's right to know. All of that is ahead. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: As we said earlier, the United States and Japan are working to forge closer ties amid growing security concerns in East Asia. Among them, China's expanding military power and its possible thread to Taiwan, plus North Korea's nuclear program.

With me now from Washington is Kenneth Lieberthal with the Brookings Institution.

You know, Ken, statements like this come and go at the end of almost every meeting of this caliber, of this level. What makes the statement that came out of today's meeting different?

KENNETH LIEBERTHAL, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: I think two things. One is that this reflects a significant change that's occuring in the U.S./Japan relationship and in Japan's role in Asia. We have long had an alliance with the Japanese, about that alliance has effectively met that we could use Japan's territory for forward basing of military forces. And the Japanese in turn would not have an independent security role. And they frankly, would not have a very independent diplomatic posture in the region either.

We have seen in the last few years a serious evolution occurring. And the Bush administration really now wishes to see Japan become the England of Asia. Just to say, a security partner, able and willing to use its military forces as necessary with an active and distinctive diplomacy very much in cooperation with the United States, but not simply as an extension of the United States. I think that this meeting, this statement very much reflected the evolution of that relationship.

Also, for the first time, this meeting produced a statement that explicitly mentioned Taiwan even though did it so in mild language. The Japanese normally relaly shy away from any explicit metino of the the cross-strait relationship or its interest in any particular outcome in Taiwan.

KOPPEL: So, if they normally shy away from it, why are they now deciding to get right in the middle of it?

LIEBERTHAL: Well, I think that this reflects that Japan's more active security posture and U.S. encouragement of that is seeing in no small part in Washington, I believe in Tokyo, too, as pushing back against a rapidly enhancing Chinese capability in the region both diplomatic and security and even on the economic side.

And japan's willingness to speak to the Taiwan issue, even in very mild terms, has to be seen, I think, in both Taiwan and Beijing as Japan's indicating that it is more willing than others previously thought to side with the U.S. if God forbid the balloon goes up over the Taiwan strait and there is military conflict across that area.

KOPPEL: Got you.

So considering that China views Taiwan as part of China, renegade province, and understanding now that Japan is basically saying that it will join up with the U.S. if China were to attack Taiwan. One, how do you think China is going to view this? And how do think the pro- independence camp in Taiwan is going view it?

LIEBERTHAL: Well, I think China will view it in part as complicating any military options that they have. And frankly, that's a good thing. Anything that further deters military action is to my mind all to the good.

But on the other side, what we really need is stability across the Taiwan Strait and stability for the long term. And that will depend on China's making some concessions, which they'll only make if they trust U.S. long-term intentions. So that they'll feel they can play for the long run without the U.S. using that time to strengthen its security commitment to Taiwan, effectively provide a shield for Taiwan independence.

Also in Taiwan, if they see this meeting and related developments as effectively giving them the security guarantee backed by both the U.S. and Japan, then arguably the more pro-independence people in Taiwan will feel that they can act in a more provocative fashion, because now they've got the two big countries in the region other than China protecting them from potential Chinese pressure.

So this could actually be, if not destabilizing, at least make it much more difficult and complicated to achieve the compromises necessary for long-term stability across the strait.

KOPPEL: Kenneth Lieberthal with the Brookings Institution. Thanks so much for coming.

LIEBERTAHL: My pleasure.

KOPPEL: And when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues, accusations of sexual abuse in the U.S. military. Is the government doing enough to prevent it?

And later, a recommendation on some popular painkillers, and why it's leaving many people confused about the contents of their medical cabinets. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: There is a troubling accusation against the U.S. military. A watchdog organization says it's found serious levels of sexual abuse occurring in war zones. This is a month after the Pentagon announced a new policy to prevent the problem. Kathleen Koch has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The accusations are troubling. The watchdog group, the Miles Foundation, charges 10 serial rapists are serving in the U.S. military in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait and Bahrain. It shows that overall it's gotten 307 reports of sexual assault from U.S. members in those countries.

The foundation insists military authorities have been alerted about the alleged serial rapists. But the Pentagon in a statement said it's quote, "not aware of any reports showing evidence of 10 sexual predators serving in the U.S. military. We reject the characterization brought forth by the Miles Foundation."

There are also claims of sexual assault from service members in the U.S. One former officer tells CBS's "60 Minutes" she was raped while on duty last August at a military base in Mississippi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER DYER, FRM. ARMY NATL. GUARD LIEUTENANT: I don't feel it's possible to misinterpret, no, don't do this, or, stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Dyer's alleged attacker who denies her claim is facing court-martial on rape charges. But Dyer says the military treated her quote, "like a criminal." The Pentagon wouldn't comment.

DYER: The aftermath of reporting has been terrifying.

KOCH: Other service women told similar stories to Congress last March. And Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ordered a review and a zero tolerance policy.

The Pentagon last month unveiled new ground rules to prevent and respond to sexual abuse in the ranks. It established a sexual assault response coordinator for every military base, mandatory prevention training and sensitive and timely treatment of victims.

DR. DAVID CHU, UNDERSECY. OF DEF. FOR PERSONNEL: The well-being of the victims is a priority for us and we are doing whatever it will take to ensure they get the best possible care.

BRIG. GEN. K.C. MCCLAIN, CMDR. JOINT TASK FORCE: This is not a silver bullet. There is no overnight solution and to do this right, it is going to take time.

KOCH (on camera): Even with all these changes, a key to tracking the magnitude of the problem remains unresolved. The military still hasn't found a way to guarantee sexual assault victims confidentiality. Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And here's a look at stories making news across America.

In New Jersey, the state's attorney general isn't happy with Blockbuster's no more late fees policy. The lawsuit filed by Peter Harvey says the movie rental giant isn't telling customers about the fees it does charge when videos and games are past due.

In Colorado, police have confirmed the identity of a man suspected of attacking a woman and stealing her car. They say he's Brent J. Brents. Brents is a convicted rapist who is suspected of several sexual assaults in the Denver area.

In New York, the hockey season may not be on ice just yet. Even though the commissioner of the National Hockey League canceled the season Wednesday, the league and the players' union are meeting today in an effort to salvage the season.

And in Southern California, people in several areas are worried about mud slides. Heavy rains have also closed roads and halted train traffic. The region has already seen three times the rain it got all last year.

Here's what's ahead in the next half hour of CNN LIVE SATURDAY. It's a subject that only comes in shades of gray. And now a documentary filmmaker is trying to capture it in living control. We'll look at a unique portrayal of war.

And later, a former Senator Fred Thompson talks about how he went from being a lawyer in real life to playing one on TV. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: A controversial pain reliever could return to the pharmacies. A Food and Drug Administration Advisory Committee met to review the fate of Cox-2 inhibitors Friday. One drug company stopped sales of Vioxx after alleged increase risks of heart attack and stroke. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen now looks at the committee's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was close, to say the least. 17 members of this FDA advisory committee voted in support of Vioxx going back on the market if Merck chooses to do so, 15 members voted no. That leads the way for Merck to try to put its popular perscription painkiller back on the shelves after pulling it off the shelves last September.

DR. PETER KIM, MERCK RESEARCH LABS: We've heard numerous reports, and you've heard a few today, from patients, including patients with cronic debilitating pain that Vioxx was the only drug that relieved that pain.

COHEN: In a statement today, Merck said, Merck has appreciated the opportunity to present data at this advisory committee meeting. We look forward to discussions with the FDA. At Friday's meeting, there were recounts, confusion about who voted which way, prompting the committee chairman to say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Katherine Harris now that we need her?

DR. LEE SIMON, PFIZER CLINICAL ADVISER: I don't believe I've ever seen a committee function like this.

COHEN: Pfizer makes Celebrex and Bextra and stands to lose if Vioxx goes back on the market. All three drugs are cox-2 inhibitors, and the FDA committee was very clear that this class of drugs has serious safety concerns. Panel members agreed unanimously that the painkillers increased the risk of heart attacks and strokes. The committee recommended that the drugs carry so-called black box warnings, the toughest warnings possible, and that adds to consumers should not be allowed.

But in the end, despite these concerns, the FDA advisers decided that Americans in pain should be allowed to take these medicines. Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Later today, on a special edition of "Anderson Cooper "360," a look at the many forms of depression. And we'll examine the many warning signs, risks and treatments. That's at 4:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

Checking some stories now in the news. One day before he heads across the Atlantic to Europe, President Bush is stressing the importance of the American European alliance. In his weekly radio address, Mr. Bush says the U.S. and Europe shares common interests and values. The relationship has suffered in recent years especially over the war in Iraq.

A key alliance for the United States in Asia is in the spotlight today in Washington. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have been meeting with their Japanese counterparts. Among the concerns for both countries, China's growing military might, and the nuclear threat from North Korea.

Today is a Shiite holy day in Iraq, but that's not stopping insurgents from keeping up their deadly attacks. More than two dozen people have lost their lives in violence day across Iraq. Most of them in Baghdad. An American soldier was among those killed.

A powerful documentary about Iraq and the war there opens in theaters March 4th. It's called "Gunner Palace" and follows the soldiers of an army artillery company. Unlike other war films, this one doesn't try to present a political point of view, just true grit. Here's CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The soldier's life in wartime, frightening, mundane complicated.

MICHAEL TUCKER, DIRECTOR, "GUNNER PALACE:" It's not just one enemy. There's multiple enemies. Some are even fighting among themselves. It's extremely confusing. It's not black and white. It's very gray.

TODD (on camera): The new documentary's "Gunner Palace" won't horrify you with violence, no roadside explosions or fire fights. This film strikes at the tension and ambiguity of war and how much of it is left in the hands of the very young.

TODD (voice over): Those in a U.S. army field artillery regiment occupying a Baghdad palace once used by Saddam Hussein's son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here in Uday's house.

TODD: And the young people outside it's gates, to whom the solders act as police officer or friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife gave birth to our first son in June. That was while I was here. I've seen pictures, but I haven't got to hold him yet.

TODD: Even a goodwill visit to an orphanage has a chilling flip side.

CAPT. JON POWERS, U.S. ARMY (RET): One of the nuns that took us aside and said please don't come back. And we couldn't understand why. We provided everything they had. And she said, if you come back, it -- terrorists said they will kill the kids for us working with the Americans.

TODD: Captain John Powers spent more than 400 days with this unit in Iraq. He says filmmaker Michael Tucker got such close access, that he was barely noticed after a while. Tucker's there as the unit storms into a suspected insurgent financier's house by night. A terrified old woman and child are home. The suspect's not. And he's there as they unwind at the palace pool, a frequent target of mortar attacks. The filmmaker and his camera become a sounding board.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: of our $87 billion budget provided for us to have some secondary armor put on top of our thin-skinned Humvees. This armor was made in Iraq. It's high quality metal. And it will probably slow down the shrapnel so that it stays in your body instead of going clean through. And that's about it.

POWERS: We were mad max. We were rolling around with big scrap metal that we had bought from the Iraqis and paid Iraqi welders to weld it on. And luckily it stopped some things. It didn't stop other things.

TODD: The fear expressed by these young warriors any way they can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the guns stop blazing and our friends get hit, that's when the hostile race in and our stomach get wounded.

TODD: An official with the U.S. army public affairs office said they had no involvement in the making of "Gunner Palace" and wouldn't comment on specific parts of it, except to say they believe the film shows the soldiers acting for the most part professionally.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: From the courtrooms to the senate floor to Hollywood studio. Former Senator Fred Thompson hits the "Novak Zone" to share what he's learned from his remarkable career.

And later, a South Carolina jury doesn't buy the Zoloft defense angle in the murder trial of a teenager. A case against the prescription drug closed? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: He's been seen on the silver screen, the small screen, and on the political scene. Former Senator Fred Thompson joins CNN's Robert Novak in this week's edition of the "Novak Zone."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the "Novak Zone." We're in Washington, D.C. talking to a familiar face in the movies, television and politics. Former Senator Fred Thompson, Republican of Tennessee. Featured performer on NBC's "Law and Order."

Fred Thompson, after eight years you had enough of the Senate. Did you know when you left the Senate that you would go into show business again?

FRED THOMPSON, FMR. (R) SENATOR TENNESSEE: I thought I would do a movie occasionally, the way I had done before. But I didn't know I would go into television. I thought you had to go to Los Angeles to do that. And I didn't want to do that. So I got this call, totally out of the blue, after I announced that I wasn't going to run. And here I am on it.

NOVAK: You know, Senator, you play on "Law and Order" the district attorney of New York. Solid northern Democratic city. You're a Republican with a southern accent. I guess in television, anything's possible?

THOMPSON: Well, as I always say, my mama thinks I'm the only one without the accent. But Dick Wolf had this idea that after September 11th that the people of New York would be looking for a law and order guy. And the back story was that I was from the south, but I had spent some years in New York, in a New York law firm.

NOVAK: I understand you're going into another program on NBC, a spin-off as they call it, "Trial by Jury."

THOMPSON: Yes.

NOVAK: What is that supposed to be?

THOMPSON: Well it's an inside "Law and Order" show gives you an inside look as to the prosecution team and what they're doing and their strategy. This new show "Trial by Jury" gives you the inside look on not only the prosecution team but the defense team, and the jury room sometimes, and in the judge's chamber. They're going to start airing in March.

NOVAK: You were a lawyer in Nashville, and you were in a big trial, and they decided they're going to make a movie on the trial, asked you to play yourself. Did you have any idea that that would start an acting career for you?

THOMPSON: No. No not at all. I had never been in a high school play. Never had any desire to do that. But as you say, I wound up playing myself in that movie, and about a year later, after it was over with, the guy who directed it, Roger Donaldson called me up and said, let's see if you can do anything besides play yourself. So the next movie he was directing was called "No Way Out" with a fellow named Kevin Costner, who I hadn't heard of. And most people hadn't by that point. So he gave me the part as a CIA director in this. So that was my second movie.

NOVAK: You played in one movie a very corrupt senator. Now, you were a real-life senator.

THOMPSON: Corrupt but lovable, Bob.

NOVAK: Did you find any Senators in the real Senate like that? Who were on the take like that?

THOMPSON: No. I think nowadays politics is the cleanest from that stand point that it's ever been in American history. It leaves a lot to be desired. I think, still, in many other respects, all the pressures and the conflicts that we have up there. But in terms of outright corruption like that, I knew of none of it. And I think the media has a good deal to do with that, and I think the kind of folks that are coming to town are just not susceptible to that.

NOVAK: What is the stress factor in doing a regular television program compared to being a U.S. Senator? You were running a big investigation in the Clinton administration. But what is more stressful would you say?

THOMPSON: The Senate.

NOVAK: The Senate's more stressful?

THOMPSON: Oh, yes. That's real-life stuff. And very important stuff. Some of it is. Much of it's very unimportant. We try to make it appear to be. But the part that is, and the investigations, as you pointed out, is a part of that, is extremely important and extremely stressful.

NOVAK: I covered a pre-2000 cattle show, of presidential candidates in Indianapolis. You were there. Would you give it a serious thought of running for president?

THOMPSON: Yes I remember the main reason I gave it some thought is because of that article you wrote about that cattle show. I mean, I thought, old bob thought it worked out pretty good, maybe it would. Bob, I gave it some thought. But at the time I -- when I was looking at it, it appeared to me that George W. Bush had the giant rolodex, and a great big head start on the rest of us. He had already raised a substantial amount of money.

NOVAK: You served eight years in the Senate. Thought that was enough? What do you think of mandatory term limits, say 12 years for a Senator?

THOMPSON: I think they're a great idea. Always have. And I guess always will. I think that the problem that we have in politics today come not from a lack of experience, or lack of integrity, they come from a lack of will, having the will power. And most of that has to do with fear of reelection. And I think if a person came to town knowing that they couldn't stay forever, they couldn't retire there, that they were going to have to go back home before long anyway, that they would take the risks that are necessary to solve some of the tougher problems. And the tough problems are risky politically.

NOVAK: Now, the big question for Fred Thompson. Senator, you got your start, I first met you as the minority counsel for the Senate Watergate Committee. Back in the news is Deep Throat. He's supposed to be ill. Do you know who Deep Throat was? Or do you think you know who it is?

THOMPSON: I have no idea Bob. I never have had any idea. I'm a little bit perplexed now, because, you know, someone who is ill, you'd think would stick out in this town if they were among the group that's commonly named as potential prospects for Deep Throat. So I conclude from that, it must be someone who is not as well known. But I have no idea who it is. I'd almost come to the conclusion it was a composite of people, because I've never known a secret to be held in Washington, for any length of time, much less this long. But perhaps there is a person out there, and sounds like we might know before too long.

NOVAK: Thank you, Fred Thompson.

THOMPSON: Thank you Bob.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in the "Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: For more of Bob Novak, tune in to the "Capital Gang" tonight at 7:00 Eastern.

A court ruling puts media companies on edge. And may put too well-known reporters in jail. We'll tackle that case and some of the week's other legal highlights up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: An Appeals Court rules the first amendment doesn't protect journalists who won't reveal their sources. A South Carolina jury rejects the so-called Zoloft defense if in the trial of a teenager for the brutal murder of two grandparents, and a defroth priest gets 12 to 15 years for sexually abusing a child. There is a lot to cover today in our "Legal Briefs." And with us in Cleveland, Ohio, Avery Friedman a law professor and a civil rights attorney. And in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. Gentlemen, nice to see you both.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to be here.

KOPPEL: The first case obviously hits close to home. And it has to do with Judy Miller of the "New York Times" and Mathew Copper of "Time" magazine. Judy Miller I should say never wrote about the Valerie claim affair. The CIA agent who was allegedly ousted by some White House administration official who spoke to them. And also spoke to Robert Novak, the conservative columnist we just saw a few moments ago on our air. The question is, why is it that this three-judge appellate panel is not ruling in favor of their right to protect their sources. The same way that doctors are allowed to protect their privileges, with their patients, and lawyers are with their clients. Avery, let's begin with you.

FRIEDMAN: That's a great question. And you know what, the Supreme Court addressed that issue 32 years ago. This three-judge panel in Washington, Andrea, was stuck. The precedent is that there is no first amendment privilege for reporters. Therefore, as a result of that, three decade-old ruling, many jurisdictions, states and the District of Columbia are now creating statutory reporter shields. So the bottom line is the three-judge panel says, no First Amendment, but they then said under common law, reporters may have privilege except in this case, because it was national security. The reporters are going to either have to testify before the grand jury, or they're going to jail.

KOPPEL: Richard couldn't this go to the Supreme Court as their defense attorney is saying where he would take this next?

HERMAN: Yes, just because you can go to the Supreme Court, really, doesn't mean anything in this particular instance. Post-9/11, the United States is a different animal. And when terrorism is involved, these privileges, or these attempted privileges are not going to fly. They're just not going to fly. These reporters are ultimately going to have to divulge their sources. And if they don't, like Susan McDougal, they're going to go to prison. And there's nothing anybody can do about it.

FRIEDMAN: And that's the problem. I mean to me, I want people like Andrea Koppel and all other journalists to make sure that when sources come to them, this is an important check on government. And I think the whole idea of protecting reporters -- and I represent reporters -- will be when you look at this case, and you're going to say, my goodness since 9/11, we're concerned about national security. What happens to a reporter's privilege? I think it's out the window unless we see further litigation either strengthening shield laws enacted by legislators, or developing this common law privilege for more reporters. KOPPEL: I could understand that if in the case of Judy Miller with the "New York Times," if she had actually written something about this. But she never wrote anything. Why do the -- why does the court believe it's so important that both of them testify about their sources to this grand jury?

HERMAN: They don't have the right not to testify. And that's the point. They don't rise to the level of an attorney/client privilege or a physician/doctor privilege. This is not on that level, Andrea. Again, post-9/11, if it's a criminal investigation and they have material information that's been sought, and a judge has issued an order for their testimony, they're going to have to divulge it.

FRIEDMAN: That's the problem Richard. That's the difficulty. The problem is that you have to protect reporters. Without that privilege, responsible reporters will not be able to share about abuses of government. And I understand the national security issue, but when we're dealing with First Amendment, when we're dealing with freedom of the press, I think something has to be done to strengthen the ability of reporters to keep information confidential.

KOPPEL: But on that subject, we're going to run out of time for the remaining segment. Christopher Pittman, who is now the 15-year-old young man who claimed that when he was 12 and murdered his grandparents, that he was under the influence of Zoloft. Obviously the jury didn't buy that argument. Richard, why not?

HERMAN: Well, Andrea, I mean, come on the defense attorneys had nothing in that case. That's all they had was the Zoloft defense. And they took a shot with it. And the jury rejected it. I mean, the young man grabs a loaded shotgun, walks into his grandparents' bedroom, shoots them point blank range, lights the house on fire and runs away so he doesn't get caught. Come on, what kind of defense could you possibly have other than some sort of mental incapacity here.

KOPPEL: But Avery, let me ask you, he was 12 at the time the crime was committed. But he was tried as an adult. Does he stand to potentially be able to appeal this as a juvenile?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I don't think so. The juvenile advocates say you can't try children before the age of 12. They really don't have adult capacity. That's really the only argument they had. They brought in an FDA psychiatrist Andrea who tried to introduce evidence. But the guy was terrible. He was unprepared. He had not practiced psychiatry for a long time. The bottom line, and I agree with Richard, that the defense did whatever they could do in this case. He was going nowhere. And unless we have a change in the laws protecting juveniles, you're going to see more juveniles tried as adults.

KOPPEL: And our file case, I'm sorry to interrupt. We've got less than a minute. Paul Shanley, who is the 74 year old now defrocked priest from Boston, who is convicted now on having molested a child. Do you think this case could actually have reverberations for other cases, an impact on other cases that have yet to come to court?

HERMAN: I'm surprised that more people weren't convicted for obstruction of justice in that case, and as co-conspirators for him. They were sheltering this guy and shifting him to other parishes throughout the Boston area, I mean 12 to 15-year sentence for this guy. I know a white collar defendant got 845 years in prison.

FRIEDMAN: Twelve to 15 years Richard is a life sentence for this guy. And the judge did the right thing.

HERMAN: Yes he deserves more, actually.

FRIEDMAN: Well could be.

HERMAN: He got off easy.

KOPPEL: Unfortunately we are out of time. But Avery Friedman and Richard Herman, who is a birthday boy today, we thank you for coming in.

HERMAN: Oh, boy.

KOPPEL: Happy Birthday.

HERMAN: Thank you.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you, take care.

KOPPEL: It is a flag-raising that has a permanent place in American history. But veterans gathering today are hoping to battle leading up to that moment won't be forgotten. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: The 60th anniversary of the World War II battle of Iwo Jima was remembered at Arlington National Cemetery today. Marines laid a wreath as part of the event. The ceremony was held at the U.S. Marine Corp War Memorial. The statue that depicts the famous U.S. flag raising on the Japanese island.

There is much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. At the top of the hour, it's "Next@CNN," Then at 4:00, a special edition of "Anderson Cooper 360" looks at the many ways Americans fight to conquer their depression. At 5:00, "People in the News" profiles Rod Stewart and Carly Simon, but first here's Daniel Sieberg with a preview of "Next@CNN."

DANIEL SIEBEG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The nation's airports continue to ratchet up security and we'll show you the latest screening device. Also invasions from the tech industry's elite.

Now that the Kyoto protocol is in effect will it really ease global warming. Those stories and a lot more coming up right after a check of the headlines from the CNN newsroom.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 19, 2005 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 on the East Coast, 11:00 on the West. I'm Andrea Koppel at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta. In for Fredricka Whitfield.
Ahead this hour, CNN security watch, the U.S. and Japan talk security, and North Korea's not the only subject on the table.

Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friends get hit. That's when my heart starts racing and my stomach gets woozy, because the art is just a show, but we live in this movie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: A documentary film blurs the line between real life and art.

And later, the similarities between politics and show business from one of the people who knows best. Former Senator Fred Thompson makes a guest appearance on the Novak Zone.

All that's ahead, but first a look at the headlines now in the news.

A second deadly day of attacks in Iraq during Ashura, the Shiite holy period. A series of 5 bombings in Baghdad killed 23 people, while in Baqubah, another attack killed 3. We'll have the latest from Iraq with CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in just a moment.

In his weekly radio address, President Bush said he plans to reaffirm the importance of transatlantic relations in an upcoming trip to Europe. Bush is scheduled to leave tomorrow. Relations between the U.S. and many European nations worsened because of widespread opposition to the war in Iraq.

A first for Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon. Sharon gave an interview to an Arab newspaper for the first time since he became prime minister in 2001. Sharon told the Egyptian al Ahram Newspaper if calm prevailed between Israelis and Palestinians, negotiations could begin toward a final settlement.

Keeping you informed CNN, the most trusted name in news. For a second day, a wave of attacks across Iraq most were suicide bombings, most of them happened in Baghdad and they came on Shiite Muslim's holiest day. At last count, the 6 attacks killed 26 people, including a U.S. soldier. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson files a late report from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Eight different suicide bombers in Baghdad, focusing their attentions on the Shia Muslims on their way to commemorate the Ashura festival at the Kathimain Mosque in the north of Baghdad.

An attack early in the afternoon near the mosque, an insurgent fired a rocket-propelled grenade at a police car. Immediately, Iraqi security forces called in U.S. troops. They went to secure the area, but as they did that, a suicide bomber detonated his explosives, killing one U.S. soldier, wounding another, killing also in the same blast 4 Iraqis, wounding 22 more Iraqis.

A little earlier in the day, 3 suicide bombers had approached a group of worshippers, detonating their explosives, killing 5, wounding 40.

Later in the day, as worshippers were leaving the Kathimain area. Again, 3 suicide bombers approached the worshippers, this time Iraqi security officials intercepting them. One of the suicide bombers managed to detonate his explosives, killing an Iraqi soldier. The other suicide bomber shot dead, and the other one detained.

And a little earlier in the day, a suicide bomber riding a bicycle had ridden into a tent where mourners were waiting for a funeral. Three people killed there, 38 wounded.

But overall, the Ashura festival this year far less violent than last year when 141 Shias were killed in violent attacks around the the holy shrine in Baghdad of Kathimain and in the holy city of Karbala to the south. This year in Karbalah, the insurgents apparently unable or unwilling to penetrate the security there. There were no violent acts reported in that city. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: A U.S. Senate delegation is in Iraq today meeting with U.S. military leaders, Iraqi officials and local women leaders. Senator John McCain is leading the bipartisan group that includes Senators Susan Collins, Lindsey Graham, Hilary Rodham Clinton and Russ Feingold.

Both Clinton, a Democrat, and McCain, a Republican, have been critical of the Pentagon's management of the war. After they're meetings today, they both expressed cautious optimism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I think we have an opportunity to succeed. And I want to emphasize again, there's none of us who have visited here who wish to understate or underappreciate the enormity of the task that lies ahead of us.

SEN. HILARY CLINTON, (D) NEW YORK: The impression that I take away from just this short visit, after talking with not only a government officials, but some of our military and civilian leaders here in Iraq, is cautious optimism. Cautious, because there are so many challenges ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The senators are scheduled to visit several military bases in Iraq today before heading home.

In a break with the past, North Korea says it is not interested at the moment in holding direct talks with the United States on the issue of its nuclear program. That word from a Chinese news agency in Beijing.

Earlier this month, North Korea announced it has nuclear weapons and is prepared to build more. At the same time, it refused to take part in talks with the United States and 4 other countries demanding one-on-one talks with the U.S. instead.

North Korea's nuclear threat plus tensions between China and Taiwan, are among a number of issues on the agenda today during meetings in Washington. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are holding talks with their Japanese counterparts. We get more details from CNN's Elaine Quijano at the White House. Good afternoon, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Andrea.

And those meetings have resulted in a joint statement by the U.S. and Japan. Specifically, both countries expressing what they say is their deep concern over North Korea.

Now, in particular, the statement saying that North Korea's nuclear program represents a threat to the stability of the region, including Japan. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that there's always been concern on this issue, and that it's time for the North Koreans to take seriously that concern. She also reiterated the U.S.'s belief that while North Korea appears to be isolating itself from the international community, there are ways it can improve its relations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: What is there is a forum called the six-party talks. And the North Koreans do have a path to a better relationship with the international community. And I would hope they would take it.

We will, of course, have to look beyond if that day comes. But at this point, we believe that the international community is united in saying to the North Koreans that they should return to the talks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Another item on the agenda for the U.S. and Japan, China. Today Japanese officials expressed their wish that China put more pressure on its neighbor North Korea rather than acting as just a mediator.

Japan has also watched nervously as the Chinese have taken steps to build up their military. The concern is that any chinese action toward Taiwan, which it considers a renegade province, could destabilize the region. Well, today in that joint statement with the U.S., Japan declared Taiwan as a common security issue. That's significant, because in the past Japan has pretty much left that issue to others.

And while the U.S. has expressed its own concerns about China emerging as a super power, after today's meeting, U.S. officials have suggested that perhaps China can be run into the larger world community through a network of relations -- relationships with other countries. And perhaps that may be the best path to making sure that there is peace and stability in that region -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Elaine, were there any ideas that the, either the Japanese or the U.S. side came out publicly with as to how to get North Korea back to the table, considering that not only have they rejected the multi-party talks, but they're also saying they don't want to talk to the U.S.?

QUIJANO: Right. At this particular point, the United States holding firm to what it has said all along, and that is, it believes the best route for North Korea to take is through the six-party talks. But beyond that, no specifics offered.

Now, the Japanese, of course, are watching this, as we said, quite closely, because they are in close proximity. And they have in the past, the fact that they have come forward now really signifies their deepening concern. Although Secretary Rice was careful to say there's always been worry on the issue.

But the intention by the U.S. now is to really send a message that they in fact only see the six-party talks as the avenue for North Korea to take.

KOPPEL: Elaine, thanks so much. Elaine Quijano at the White House.

And just ahead in a few minutes, we'll have an expert on East Asian affairs, Kenneth Lieberthal who will join me to talk more about this effort by the United States and Japan to stand together on issues that affect both countries.

In Thailand, former Presidents Bush and Clinton are touring tsunami devastated areas. The two are helping lead and coordinate tsunami relief efforts in the U.S. to bring aid to tsunami victims. CNN's Aneesh Raman is covering the story now in Thailand. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kicking off a three-day tour through the region, former Presidents Clinton and Bush arrived in Phuket to witness firsthand the lingering aftermath of December tsunami. In the village of Bannamkam (ph), school children presented the two with drawings of the waves crashing down, waves that killed their parents.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE United States: The one that gave me hers had lost her mother and all of this puts a very human face on this tragedy.

RAMAN: But amidst the emotions, an inspirational site, the village which lost close to half of its residents is being reborn. The former presidents also laid a wreath at the Wall of Remembrance, all day, reminding people that despite their at times contentious political history, this was a nonpartisan, human mission.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But on issues about which there could be no debate. That little girl that gave him the picture, you know, of her mother drowning, that's not something to politically debate.

RAMAN: Days after the tsunami hit, the current president called on Clinton and Bush Senior to lead a fundraising effort in the United States. But now almost two months since the disaster, this visit is meant to combat donor fatigue, reminding Americans the giving cannot stop and showing leaders in the region America remains ready to help.

CLINTON: What we have to do now is not to forget these people in places when all of the cameras are not there. I think that's the most important message I could say to the American people.

RAMAN: From Phuket, the former presidents will travel onward to Indonesia and Sri Lank on Sunday before a final stop on Monday in the Maldives.

(on camera): For tsunami survivors, this trip is essential in keeping focus on their plate. There will be no definable end to the reconstruction; instead it is simply a new reality, the success of which is highly contingent upon the world never forgetting the events of December 26.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, Phuket, Thailand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And make sure to join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow when he welcomes former Presidents Clinton and Bush to "LATE EDITION." You can see that interview beginning tomorrow at noon Eastern.

North Korea's not the only reason for concern in East Asia. Up next, we'll look at China's growing military power and the threat it poses to Taiwan.

Also ahead, potential new dangers for U.S. women in the military. One coming from within their own ranks.

And later, a court rules against two journalists. Why it's a blow to the public's right to know. All of that is ahead. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: As we said earlier, the United States and Japan are working to forge closer ties amid growing security concerns in East Asia. Among them, China's expanding military power and its possible thread to Taiwan, plus North Korea's nuclear program.

With me now from Washington is Kenneth Lieberthal with the Brookings Institution.

You know, Ken, statements like this come and go at the end of almost every meeting of this caliber, of this level. What makes the statement that came out of today's meeting different?

KENNETH LIEBERTHAL, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: I think two things. One is that this reflects a significant change that's occuring in the U.S./Japan relationship and in Japan's role in Asia. We have long had an alliance with the Japanese, about that alliance has effectively met that we could use Japan's territory for forward basing of military forces. And the Japanese in turn would not have an independent security role. And they frankly, would not have a very independent diplomatic posture in the region either.

We have seen in the last few years a serious evolution occurring. And the Bush administration really now wishes to see Japan become the England of Asia. Just to say, a security partner, able and willing to use its military forces as necessary with an active and distinctive diplomacy very much in cooperation with the United States, but not simply as an extension of the United States. I think that this meeting, this statement very much reflected the evolution of that relationship.

Also, for the first time, this meeting produced a statement that explicitly mentioned Taiwan even though did it so in mild language. The Japanese normally relaly shy away from any explicit metino of the the cross-strait relationship or its interest in any particular outcome in Taiwan.

KOPPEL: So, if they normally shy away from it, why are they now deciding to get right in the middle of it?

LIEBERTHAL: Well, I think that this reflects that Japan's more active security posture and U.S. encouragement of that is seeing in no small part in Washington, I believe in Tokyo, too, as pushing back against a rapidly enhancing Chinese capability in the region both diplomatic and security and even on the economic side.

And japan's willingness to speak to the Taiwan issue, even in very mild terms, has to be seen, I think, in both Taiwan and Beijing as Japan's indicating that it is more willing than others previously thought to side with the U.S. if God forbid the balloon goes up over the Taiwan strait and there is military conflict across that area.

KOPPEL: Got you.

So considering that China views Taiwan as part of China, renegade province, and understanding now that Japan is basically saying that it will join up with the U.S. if China were to attack Taiwan. One, how do you think China is going to view this? And how do think the pro- independence camp in Taiwan is going view it?

LIEBERTHAL: Well, I think China will view it in part as complicating any military options that they have. And frankly, that's a good thing. Anything that further deters military action is to my mind all to the good.

But on the other side, what we really need is stability across the Taiwan Strait and stability for the long term. And that will depend on China's making some concessions, which they'll only make if they trust U.S. long-term intentions. So that they'll feel they can play for the long run without the U.S. using that time to strengthen its security commitment to Taiwan, effectively provide a shield for Taiwan independence.

Also in Taiwan, if they see this meeting and related developments as effectively giving them the security guarantee backed by both the U.S. and Japan, then arguably the more pro-independence people in Taiwan will feel that they can act in a more provocative fashion, because now they've got the two big countries in the region other than China protecting them from potential Chinese pressure.

So this could actually be, if not destabilizing, at least make it much more difficult and complicated to achieve the compromises necessary for long-term stability across the strait.

KOPPEL: Kenneth Lieberthal with the Brookings Institution. Thanks so much for coming.

LIEBERTAHL: My pleasure.

KOPPEL: And when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues, accusations of sexual abuse in the U.S. military. Is the government doing enough to prevent it?

And later, a recommendation on some popular painkillers, and why it's leaving many people confused about the contents of their medical cabinets. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: There is a troubling accusation against the U.S. military. A watchdog organization says it's found serious levels of sexual abuse occurring in war zones. This is a month after the Pentagon announced a new policy to prevent the problem. Kathleen Koch has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The accusations are troubling. The watchdog group, the Miles Foundation, charges 10 serial rapists are serving in the U.S. military in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait and Bahrain. It shows that overall it's gotten 307 reports of sexual assault from U.S. members in those countries.

The foundation insists military authorities have been alerted about the alleged serial rapists. But the Pentagon in a statement said it's quote, "not aware of any reports showing evidence of 10 sexual predators serving in the U.S. military. We reject the characterization brought forth by the Miles Foundation."

There are also claims of sexual assault from service members in the U.S. One former officer tells CBS's "60 Minutes" she was raped while on duty last August at a military base in Mississippi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER DYER, FRM. ARMY NATL. GUARD LIEUTENANT: I don't feel it's possible to misinterpret, no, don't do this, or, stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Dyer's alleged attacker who denies her claim is facing court-martial on rape charges. But Dyer says the military treated her quote, "like a criminal." The Pentagon wouldn't comment.

DYER: The aftermath of reporting has been terrifying.

KOCH: Other service women told similar stories to Congress last March. And Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ordered a review and a zero tolerance policy.

The Pentagon last month unveiled new ground rules to prevent and respond to sexual abuse in the ranks. It established a sexual assault response coordinator for every military base, mandatory prevention training and sensitive and timely treatment of victims.

DR. DAVID CHU, UNDERSECY. OF DEF. FOR PERSONNEL: The well-being of the victims is a priority for us and we are doing whatever it will take to ensure they get the best possible care.

BRIG. GEN. K.C. MCCLAIN, CMDR. JOINT TASK FORCE: This is not a silver bullet. There is no overnight solution and to do this right, it is going to take time.

KOCH (on camera): Even with all these changes, a key to tracking the magnitude of the problem remains unresolved. The military still hasn't found a way to guarantee sexual assault victims confidentiality. Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And here's a look at stories making news across America.

In New Jersey, the state's attorney general isn't happy with Blockbuster's no more late fees policy. The lawsuit filed by Peter Harvey says the movie rental giant isn't telling customers about the fees it does charge when videos and games are past due.

In Colorado, police have confirmed the identity of a man suspected of attacking a woman and stealing her car. They say he's Brent J. Brents. Brents is a convicted rapist who is suspected of several sexual assaults in the Denver area.

In New York, the hockey season may not be on ice just yet. Even though the commissioner of the National Hockey League canceled the season Wednesday, the league and the players' union are meeting today in an effort to salvage the season.

And in Southern California, people in several areas are worried about mud slides. Heavy rains have also closed roads and halted train traffic. The region has already seen three times the rain it got all last year.

Here's what's ahead in the next half hour of CNN LIVE SATURDAY. It's a subject that only comes in shades of gray. And now a documentary filmmaker is trying to capture it in living control. We'll look at a unique portrayal of war.

And later, a former Senator Fred Thompson talks about how he went from being a lawyer in real life to playing one on TV. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: A controversial pain reliever could return to the pharmacies. A Food and Drug Administration Advisory Committee met to review the fate of Cox-2 inhibitors Friday. One drug company stopped sales of Vioxx after alleged increase risks of heart attack and stroke. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen now looks at the committee's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was close, to say the least. 17 members of this FDA advisory committee voted in support of Vioxx going back on the market if Merck chooses to do so, 15 members voted no. That leads the way for Merck to try to put its popular perscription painkiller back on the shelves after pulling it off the shelves last September.

DR. PETER KIM, MERCK RESEARCH LABS: We've heard numerous reports, and you've heard a few today, from patients, including patients with cronic debilitating pain that Vioxx was the only drug that relieved that pain.

COHEN: In a statement today, Merck said, Merck has appreciated the opportunity to present data at this advisory committee meeting. We look forward to discussions with the FDA. At Friday's meeting, there were recounts, confusion about who voted which way, prompting the committee chairman to say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Katherine Harris now that we need her?

DR. LEE SIMON, PFIZER CLINICAL ADVISER: I don't believe I've ever seen a committee function like this.

COHEN: Pfizer makes Celebrex and Bextra and stands to lose if Vioxx goes back on the market. All three drugs are cox-2 inhibitors, and the FDA committee was very clear that this class of drugs has serious safety concerns. Panel members agreed unanimously that the painkillers increased the risk of heart attacks and strokes. The committee recommended that the drugs carry so-called black box warnings, the toughest warnings possible, and that adds to consumers should not be allowed.

But in the end, despite these concerns, the FDA advisers decided that Americans in pain should be allowed to take these medicines. Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Later today, on a special edition of "Anderson Cooper "360," a look at the many forms of depression. And we'll examine the many warning signs, risks and treatments. That's at 4:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

Checking some stories now in the news. One day before he heads across the Atlantic to Europe, President Bush is stressing the importance of the American European alliance. In his weekly radio address, Mr. Bush says the U.S. and Europe shares common interests and values. The relationship has suffered in recent years especially over the war in Iraq.

A key alliance for the United States in Asia is in the spotlight today in Washington. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have been meeting with their Japanese counterparts. Among the concerns for both countries, China's growing military might, and the nuclear threat from North Korea.

Today is a Shiite holy day in Iraq, but that's not stopping insurgents from keeping up their deadly attacks. More than two dozen people have lost their lives in violence day across Iraq. Most of them in Baghdad. An American soldier was among those killed.

A powerful documentary about Iraq and the war there opens in theaters March 4th. It's called "Gunner Palace" and follows the soldiers of an army artillery company. Unlike other war films, this one doesn't try to present a political point of view, just true grit. Here's CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The soldier's life in wartime, frightening, mundane complicated.

MICHAEL TUCKER, DIRECTOR, "GUNNER PALACE:" It's not just one enemy. There's multiple enemies. Some are even fighting among themselves. It's extremely confusing. It's not black and white. It's very gray.

TODD (on camera): The new documentary's "Gunner Palace" won't horrify you with violence, no roadside explosions or fire fights. This film strikes at the tension and ambiguity of war and how much of it is left in the hands of the very young.

TODD (voice over): Those in a U.S. army field artillery regiment occupying a Baghdad palace once used by Saddam Hussein's son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here in Uday's house.

TODD: And the young people outside it's gates, to whom the solders act as police officer or friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife gave birth to our first son in June. That was while I was here. I've seen pictures, but I haven't got to hold him yet.

TODD: Even a goodwill visit to an orphanage has a chilling flip side.

CAPT. JON POWERS, U.S. ARMY (RET): One of the nuns that took us aside and said please don't come back. And we couldn't understand why. We provided everything they had. And she said, if you come back, it -- terrorists said they will kill the kids for us working with the Americans.

TODD: Captain John Powers spent more than 400 days with this unit in Iraq. He says filmmaker Michael Tucker got such close access, that he was barely noticed after a while. Tucker's there as the unit storms into a suspected insurgent financier's house by night. A terrified old woman and child are home. The suspect's not. And he's there as they unwind at the palace pool, a frequent target of mortar attacks. The filmmaker and his camera become a sounding board.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: of our $87 billion budget provided for us to have some secondary armor put on top of our thin-skinned Humvees. This armor was made in Iraq. It's high quality metal. And it will probably slow down the shrapnel so that it stays in your body instead of going clean through. And that's about it.

POWERS: We were mad max. We were rolling around with big scrap metal that we had bought from the Iraqis and paid Iraqi welders to weld it on. And luckily it stopped some things. It didn't stop other things.

TODD: The fear expressed by these young warriors any way they can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the guns stop blazing and our friends get hit, that's when the hostile race in and our stomach get wounded.

TODD: An official with the U.S. army public affairs office said they had no involvement in the making of "Gunner Palace" and wouldn't comment on specific parts of it, except to say they believe the film shows the soldiers acting for the most part professionally.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: From the courtrooms to the senate floor to Hollywood studio. Former Senator Fred Thompson hits the "Novak Zone" to share what he's learned from his remarkable career.

And later, a South Carolina jury doesn't buy the Zoloft defense angle in the murder trial of a teenager. A case against the prescription drug closed? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: He's been seen on the silver screen, the small screen, and on the political scene. Former Senator Fred Thompson joins CNN's Robert Novak in this week's edition of the "Novak Zone."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the "Novak Zone." We're in Washington, D.C. talking to a familiar face in the movies, television and politics. Former Senator Fred Thompson, Republican of Tennessee. Featured performer on NBC's "Law and Order."

Fred Thompson, after eight years you had enough of the Senate. Did you know when you left the Senate that you would go into show business again?

FRED THOMPSON, FMR. (R) SENATOR TENNESSEE: I thought I would do a movie occasionally, the way I had done before. But I didn't know I would go into television. I thought you had to go to Los Angeles to do that. And I didn't want to do that. So I got this call, totally out of the blue, after I announced that I wasn't going to run. And here I am on it.

NOVAK: You know, Senator, you play on "Law and Order" the district attorney of New York. Solid northern Democratic city. You're a Republican with a southern accent. I guess in television, anything's possible?

THOMPSON: Well, as I always say, my mama thinks I'm the only one without the accent. But Dick Wolf had this idea that after September 11th that the people of New York would be looking for a law and order guy. And the back story was that I was from the south, but I had spent some years in New York, in a New York law firm.

NOVAK: I understand you're going into another program on NBC, a spin-off as they call it, "Trial by Jury."

THOMPSON: Yes.

NOVAK: What is that supposed to be?

THOMPSON: Well it's an inside "Law and Order" show gives you an inside look as to the prosecution team and what they're doing and their strategy. This new show "Trial by Jury" gives you the inside look on not only the prosecution team but the defense team, and the jury room sometimes, and in the judge's chamber. They're going to start airing in March.

NOVAK: You were a lawyer in Nashville, and you were in a big trial, and they decided they're going to make a movie on the trial, asked you to play yourself. Did you have any idea that that would start an acting career for you?

THOMPSON: No. No not at all. I had never been in a high school play. Never had any desire to do that. But as you say, I wound up playing myself in that movie, and about a year later, after it was over with, the guy who directed it, Roger Donaldson called me up and said, let's see if you can do anything besides play yourself. So the next movie he was directing was called "No Way Out" with a fellow named Kevin Costner, who I hadn't heard of. And most people hadn't by that point. So he gave me the part as a CIA director in this. So that was my second movie.

NOVAK: You played in one movie a very corrupt senator. Now, you were a real-life senator.

THOMPSON: Corrupt but lovable, Bob.

NOVAK: Did you find any Senators in the real Senate like that? Who were on the take like that?

THOMPSON: No. I think nowadays politics is the cleanest from that stand point that it's ever been in American history. It leaves a lot to be desired. I think, still, in many other respects, all the pressures and the conflicts that we have up there. But in terms of outright corruption like that, I knew of none of it. And I think the media has a good deal to do with that, and I think the kind of folks that are coming to town are just not susceptible to that.

NOVAK: What is the stress factor in doing a regular television program compared to being a U.S. Senator? You were running a big investigation in the Clinton administration. But what is more stressful would you say?

THOMPSON: The Senate.

NOVAK: The Senate's more stressful?

THOMPSON: Oh, yes. That's real-life stuff. And very important stuff. Some of it is. Much of it's very unimportant. We try to make it appear to be. But the part that is, and the investigations, as you pointed out, is a part of that, is extremely important and extremely stressful.

NOVAK: I covered a pre-2000 cattle show, of presidential candidates in Indianapolis. You were there. Would you give it a serious thought of running for president?

THOMPSON: Yes I remember the main reason I gave it some thought is because of that article you wrote about that cattle show. I mean, I thought, old bob thought it worked out pretty good, maybe it would. Bob, I gave it some thought. But at the time I -- when I was looking at it, it appeared to me that George W. Bush had the giant rolodex, and a great big head start on the rest of us. He had already raised a substantial amount of money.

NOVAK: You served eight years in the Senate. Thought that was enough? What do you think of mandatory term limits, say 12 years for a Senator?

THOMPSON: I think they're a great idea. Always have. And I guess always will. I think that the problem that we have in politics today come not from a lack of experience, or lack of integrity, they come from a lack of will, having the will power. And most of that has to do with fear of reelection. And I think if a person came to town knowing that they couldn't stay forever, they couldn't retire there, that they were going to have to go back home before long anyway, that they would take the risks that are necessary to solve some of the tougher problems. And the tough problems are risky politically.

NOVAK: Now, the big question for Fred Thompson. Senator, you got your start, I first met you as the minority counsel for the Senate Watergate Committee. Back in the news is Deep Throat. He's supposed to be ill. Do you know who Deep Throat was? Or do you think you know who it is?

THOMPSON: I have no idea Bob. I never have had any idea. I'm a little bit perplexed now, because, you know, someone who is ill, you'd think would stick out in this town if they were among the group that's commonly named as potential prospects for Deep Throat. So I conclude from that, it must be someone who is not as well known. But I have no idea who it is. I'd almost come to the conclusion it was a composite of people, because I've never known a secret to be held in Washington, for any length of time, much less this long. But perhaps there is a person out there, and sounds like we might know before too long.

NOVAK: Thank you, Fred Thompson.

THOMPSON: Thank you Bob.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in the "Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: For more of Bob Novak, tune in to the "Capital Gang" tonight at 7:00 Eastern.

A court ruling puts media companies on edge. And may put too well-known reporters in jail. We'll tackle that case and some of the week's other legal highlights up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: An Appeals Court rules the first amendment doesn't protect journalists who won't reveal their sources. A South Carolina jury rejects the so-called Zoloft defense if in the trial of a teenager for the brutal murder of two grandparents, and a defroth priest gets 12 to 15 years for sexually abusing a child. There is a lot to cover today in our "Legal Briefs." And with us in Cleveland, Ohio, Avery Friedman a law professor and a civil rights attorney. And in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. Gentlemen, nice to see you both.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to be here.

KOPPEL: The first case obviously hits close to home. And it has to do with Judy Miller of the "New York Times" and Mathew Copper of "Time" magazine. Judy Miller I should say never wrote about the Valerie claim affair. The CIA agent who was allegedly ousted by some White House administration official who spoke to them. And also spoke to Robert Novak, the conservative columnist we just saw a few moments ago on our air. The question is, why is it that this three-judge appellate panel is not ruling in favor of their right to protect their sources. The same way that doctors are allowed to protect their privileges, with their patients, and lawyers are with their clients. Avery, let's begin with you.

FRIEDMAN: That's a great question. And you know what, the Supreme Court addressed that issue 32 years ago. This three-judge panel in Washington, Andrea, was stuck. The precedent is that there is no first amendment privilege for reporters. Therefore, as a result of that, three decade-old ruling, many jurisdictions, states and the District of Columbia are now creating statutory reporter shields. So the bottom line is the three-judge panel says, no First Amendment, but they then said under common law, reporters may have privilege except in this case, because it was national security. The reporters are going to either have to testify before the grand jury, or they're going to jail.

KOPPEL: Richard couldn't this go to the Supreme Court as their defense attorney is saying where he would take this next?

HERMAN: Yes, just because you can go to the Supreme Court, really, doesn't mean anything in this particular instance. Post-9/11, the United States is a different animal. And when terrorism is involved, these privileges, or these attempted privileges are not going to fly. They're just not going to fly. These reporters are ultimately going to have to divulge their sources. And if they don't, like Susan McDougal, they're going to go to prison. And there's nothing anybody can do about it.

FRIEDMAN: And that's the problem. I mean to me, I want people like Andrea Koppel and all other journalists to make sure that when sources come to them, this is an important check on government. And I think the whole idea of protecting reporters -- and I represent reporters -- will be when you look at this case, and you're going to say, my goodness since 9/11, we're concerned about national security. What happens to a reporter's privilege? I think it's out the window unless we see further litigation either strengthening shield laws enacted by legislators, or developing this common law privilege for more reporters. KOPPEL: I could understand that if in the case of Judy Miller with the "New York Times," if she had actually written something about this. But she never wrote anything. Why do the -- why does the court believe it's so important that both of them testify about their sources to this grand jury?

HERMAN: They don't have the right not to testify. And that's the point. They don't rise to the level of an attorney/client privilege or a physician/doctor privilege. This is not on that level, Andrea. Again, post-9/11, if it's a criminal investigation and they have material information that's been sought, and a judge has issued an order for their testimony, they're going to have to divulge it.

FRIEDMAN: That's the problem Richard. That's the difficulty. The problem is that you have to protect reporters. Without that privilege, responsible reporters will not be able to share about abuses of government. And I understand the national security issue, but when we're dealing with First Amendment, when we're dealing with freedom of the press, I think something has to be done to strengthen the ability of reporters to keep information confidential.

KOPPEL: But on that subject, we're going to run out of time for the remaining segment. Christopher Pittman, who is now the 15-year-old young man who claimed that when he was 12 and murdered his grandparents, that he was under the influence of Zoloft. Obviously the jury didn't buy that argument. Richard, why not?

HERMAN: Well, Andrea, I mean, come on the defense attorneys had nothing in that case. That's all they had was the Zoloft defense. And they took a shot with it. And the jury rejected it. I mean, the young man grabs a loaded shotgun, walks into his grandparents' bedroom, shoots them point blank range, lights the house on fire and runs away so he doesn't get caught. Come on, what kind of defense could you possibly have other than some sort of mental incapacity here.

KOPPEL: But Avery, let me ask you, he was 12 at the time the crime was committed. But he was tried as an adult. Does he stand to potentially be able to appeal this as a juvenile?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I don't think so. The juvenile advocates say you can't try children before the age of 12. They really don't have adult capacity. That's really the only argument they had. They brought in an FDA psychiatrist Andrea who tried to introduce evidence. But the guy was terrible. He was unprepared. He had not practiced psychiatry for a long time. The bottom line, and I agree with Richard, that the defense did whatever they could do in this case. He was going nowhere. And unless we have a change in the laws protecting juveniles, you're going to see more juveniles tried as adults.

KOPPEL: And our file case, I'm sorry to interrupt. We've got less than a minute. Paul Shanley, who is the 74 year old now defrocked priest from Boston, who is convicted now on having molested a child. Do you think this case could actually have reverberations for other cases, an impact on other cases that have yet to come to court?

HERMAN: I'm surprised that more people weren't convicted for obstruction of justice in that case, and as co-conspirators for him. They were sheltering this guy and shifting him to other parishes throughout the Boston area, I mean 12 to 15-year sentence for this guy. I know a white collar defendant got 845 years in prison.

FRIEDMAN: Twelve to 15 years Richard is a life sentence for this guy. And the judge did the right thing.

HERMAN: Yes he deserves more, actually.

FRIEDMAN: Well could be.

HERMAN: He got off easy.

KOPPEL: Unfortunately we are out of time. But Avery Friedman and Richard Herman, who is a birthday boy today, we thank you for coming in.

HERMAN: Oh, boy.

KOPPEL: Happy Birthday.

HERMAN: Thank you.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you, take care.

KOPPEL: It is a flag-raising that has a permanent place in American history. But veterans gathering today are hoping to battle leading up to that moment won't be forgotten. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: The 60th anniversary of the World War II battle of Iwo Jima was remembered at Arlington National Cemetery today. Marines laid a wreath as part of the event. The ceremony was held at the U.S. Marine Corp War Memorial. The statue that depicts the famous U.S. flag raising on the Japanese island.

There is much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. At the top of the hour, it's "Next@CNN," Then at 4:00, a special edition of "Anderson Cooper 360" looks at the many ways Americans fight to conquer their depression. At 5:00, "People in the News" profiles Rod Stewart and Carly Simon, but first here's Daniel Sieberg with a preview of "Next@CNN."

DANIEL SIEBEG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The nation's airports continue to ratchet up security and we'll show you the latest screening device. Also invasions from the tech industry's elite.

Now that the Kyoto protocol is in effect will it really ease global warming. Those stories and a lot more coming up right after a check of the headlines from the CNN newsroom.

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