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Inside Politics

Clinton & Bush Sr. Fast Friends; Hillary Vs. Condi in '08?; Rep. Hinchey Calls for Media Scrutiny

Aired February 22, 2005 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: The NATO class of 2005. After the summit in Brussels, is President Bush more popular?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The major issue that irritated a lot of Europeans was Iraq. I understand that. I can figure it out. And the key now is to put that behind us.

ANNOUNCER: They were bitter political opponents.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER U.S PRESIDENT: He made it look too easy, and oh how I hated him for that.

ANNOUNCER: Now they're chummy traveling companions.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He's in better shape than I am. I'm having heart surgery. He's jumping out of airplanes.

ANNOUNCER: What's the secret to this new friendship between former presidents?

Imagine this -- Hillary Clinton versus Condi Rice for president. Could the next election put a woman in the White House?

Now live from Washington, JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us. President Bush balked today when a reporter characterized his European tour as a charm offensive. Mr. Bush says it's more like a listening tour, and he may have gotten an earful during talks with NATO and European Union leaders. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is with the president in Brussels. Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy. Well, many people here calling it a charm offensive day two of that as a matter of fact, and they see the diplomacy may actually be paying off for President Bush.

(voice-over): He had a very busy day today, attending summits of NATO as well as the European Union. He walked away from those summits getting what he worked so hard for, that is a renewed sense of friendship with European allies as well as a commitment to help train Iraqi troops. This, the first critical test to the u.s. Exit strategy. All 26 NATO members pledged to contribute to trading mission in some way from Poland's deployment of some 40 troops to Iraq to France's commit of one officers who will help coordinate this mission out of Brussels. Now, despite the modest contribution from some of these members, Mr. Bush rejected this notion that NATO's effort today was simply symbolic.

GEORGE W. BUSH: Every contribution matters. 26 nations sit around that table said it's important for NATO to be involved in Iraq. That's a strong statement and NATO is involved in Iraq and NATO is doing a vital mission which is to help an office corps emerge.

MALVEAUX: Of course, Judy, on this high profile day of diplomacy, there were times when the leaders remarked almost boarded on hyperbole. President Bush saying that NATO's the most successful alliance in the history of the world, but towards the end of the day it seemed like this flowery language seemed to wear thin and it also has became clear their differences in how the U.S. as well as Europe approaches or perceives the approaches to potential threats particularly when it comes to the threat of Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH: This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And, of course, Judy some people seeing that as the president once again trying to have it both ways. It also became very clear as well many differences when it comes to policy issues. Again, the issue of China, the EU wants to go ahead and lift that arms embargo. Today, President Bush threatening, saying that U.S. Congress would take a very close look at that, perhaps even restricting the kind of exports, U.S. exports of defense material to those countries that it feels would pass along that technology to China -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So, Suzanne a clear difference of opinion between the president and some of the other European leaders over Iran in particular?

MALVEAUX: Well, yes, that's right. I mean it's really been a source of contention here. President Bush moving a little bit closer to the EU's side, however saying that they will take a look to see just whether or not those negotiations, those talks, produce any kind of results. But at the same time, there is very -- there is a lot of skepticism on the part of the Bush administration in terms of offering the kind of economic and diplomatic incentives that Europeans would like to offer Iran. Again, many people looking at that comment that the president made earlier, saying OK, well perhaps he's not preparing for military attack, but at the same time, sending a mixed message here that is still very much on the table.

WOODRUFF: That's right. Saying, I believe we heard him say" all options are on the table." OK. Suzanne Malveaux following the president in Europe. Thanks, Suzanne. While Mr. Bush is urging European leaders to help him spread democracy a new poll shows the European people have doubts about whether that should be the United States' role in the world. The Associated Press/Ipsos International poll shows a majority of people in allied countries and here in the U.S. do not think it is America's role to spread democracy abroad.

In today's security watch, an American citizen who had been detained in Saudi Arabia as the suspected terrorist was charged today with involvement in a possible plot to assassinate President Bush in 2002 and 203. Ahmed Abu-Ali appeared in U.S. district court in Virginia but did not enter a plea. He also was charged with supporting the Al Qaeda terrorist network. If convicted of all six counts against him, Abu -Ali would face a maximum of 80 years in prison. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Only a handful of people on this planet have experienced the risks and the rewards of being president of the United States. Two of them, it turns out, appear to have struck up a somewhat unlikely friendship, given their political history together. CNN's Kelly Wallace reports on the relationship between former presidents Clinton and Bush sealed during their tour of the tsunami disaster zone.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you didn't know it, you might think they were running mates, not former rivals. Just watch and listen.

CLINTON: He's in better shape than I am. I'm having heart surgery. He's jumping out of airplanes.

WALLACE: Yukking it up and heaping praise on the other every chance they get.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH: I got a little age on President Clinton. I have a little age going.

WALLACE: The warmth between the ex-presidents was evident last month at the White House.

GEORGE W. BUSH: I'm honored to be standing here with two former presidents.

WALLACE: But you could also see the bond months earlier in the smiles at the World War II dedication ceremony and in the words at the opening of President Clinton's library.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH: Simply put he was a natural and made it look too easy and oh how I hated him for that.

WALLACE: What happened to the bitterness, and there was bitterness? It was after-all an election Republican strategists say President Bush never expected to lose to the Arkansas governor.

ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Both are very warm men, and so, you know, it's one thing to be in a political battle as they were, you know, 12 years ago, but, you know, it all goes away.

WALLACE: And something else happens between members of that very exclusive club, only four living members now, the ex-presidents, says Jack Valenti, long-time aide to President Johnson.

JACK VALENTI, FORMER JOHNSON AIDE: Only they understand the problems, the pressures, the disappointments and sometimes triumphs that presidents deal with.

WALLACE: Could the between 41 and 42 help 43 as he begins his second term, and a woman who may try to become 44? Our Washington observers say possibly, but they say it won't likely end the partisan bickering.

ROLLINS: I don't think it has any relationship whatsoever to what's going on in Washington today.

WALLACE (on camera): And so maybe there is no bigger message than this -- that two former political rivals can put aside their differences and do something both Democrats and Republicans can support. Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

WOODRUFF: And with a little help from the passage of time. Thank you, Kelly.

So far the presidency has been a men-only club. Up next, are Americans kicking up their heels at the thought of a woman in the White House? Elizabeth Dole didn't get that far, but could things change in 2008?

Plus, I'll ask a Democratic congressman about his new and sensational accusation against bush adviser Karl Rove. That charge is causing a stir on line. We'll take you inside the blogs ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: A new poll finds 60 percent of registered voters say they expect that a woman will be the Democratic presidential nominee in 2008. And 18 percent expect a woman to lead the Republican ticket. So, are Americans truly ready for a woman to be in charge of the country? Our Bruce Morton takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixty-two percent of the registered voters in a Hearse Newspaper/Siena College poll say the U.S. is ready for a woman president. Eighty-one percent say they'd vote for one. Well, women have run for president. Democrat Shirley Chisholm in 1972. Republican Elizabeth Dole in 2000. But they didn't win. Geraldine Ferraro, Walter Mondale's running mate in 1984 is the only woman ever on a major national ticket but they didn't win either. And there's a problem. Would you vote for a woman, would you vote for an African American are the kind of questions voters like to answer with a yes, I'm not prejudiced, not sexist. In 1989 David Dinkins got elected mayor of New York and Douglas Wilder governor of Virginia. But both did better in the polls than on election day. Might this poll have the same problem?

KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: In races where there have been black candidates on the ballot, it looks like occasionally respondents have been telling pollsters what they think the pollsters want to hear rather than what they actually believe. We'll see in 2008 whether or not that's the case if there are any women on the ballot when we're asking about gender rather than race.

MORTON: Still, women are serious players in the 2008 sweepstakes in a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll earlier this month, Hillary Clinton was the most popular '08 choice among Democrats. Forty percent picked her, ahead of John Kerry and John Edwards. She gets high negatives in national polls but that's probably because she's seen as an East Coast liberal not because she's a woman. The Republicans 2008 choices were Rudy Giuliani followed by John McCain and Jeb Bush, all guys, of course. Still, at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference this past weekend there was a group that wants to draft Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. They have a radio ad and first caucus Iowa.

ANNOUNCER: Dedicated to electing Dr. Condoleezza Rice president in 2008.

MORTON: They have a song.

(MUSIC)

MORTON: So, who knows, Hillary a front runner, Condi a glamorous figure, astride the world stage. India Indira Gandhi in 1966. Britain elected Margaret Thatcher in 1979. How long will it take the United States to catch up? Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Is that one regard where we are behind.

Checking the Tuesday political bytes, another GOP moderate is taking the stage in a southern red state. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is in Mississippi today attending a fund raising luncheon in Jackson for GOP Senator Trent Lott.

(voice-over): As we told you yesterday, Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and another potential White House hopeful delivered a speech last night in South Carolina.

The two political parties head into a new year with a big difference in their bank accounts. The Republican National Committee had more than $16 million on hand at the start of this month. The DNC had about $2.5 million. One of the first Web ads for the USA Next campaign against the AARP appeared on the American Spectator magazine Web site yesterday. The ad has since been removed from that site. USA Next is a conservative lobbying grown formerly known as the United Seniors Association. The group is targeting the AARP for its opposition to the president's Social Security reform plan. Every few seconds an "x" appeared in the ad over the photo a soldier and a check over the gay couple. The photo of the couple is an apparent reference to the Ohio AARP's opposition to that state's anti-gay marriage amendment. In a statement, Charlie Jarvis, the leader USA Next tells CNN, quote, "we are going to be revealing areas where the AARP is out of touch with a large number of their members, including the issue of marriage." End quote.

(on camera): Charlie Jarvis will be among our guests tomorrow here on INSIDE POLITICS.

We'll have more on the USA Next ad campaign when we go inside the blogs next. Our blog reporters will tell us what people are talking about on line including today's legal developments in the Terri Schiavo court case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Before we get back to INSIDE POLITICS, there's been another development in the case of a Texas woman, a pregnant woman murdered along with her 7-year-old son. For the latest let's go to CNN's Ed Lavandera. He's on the phone with us from Fort Worth, Texas. Ed, what is happening?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): Judy, just a short while ago we received a copy of the arrest warrant affidavit that has been filed in court for arrest of 37-year-old Stephen Barbee and in this affidavit it essentially lays out what police say has happened since Friday night when the Underwood family was last seen. And essentially it says late Friday night, Stephen Barbee that on late Friday night, Stephen Barbee showed up at the house of Lisa Underwood where they got into an argument and then it lays out in the affidavit that Steven Barbee choked and suffocated Lisa Underwood and then proceed to do the same to 7-year-old Jayden Underwood. The affidavit also goes on to lay out how he then took the body from the home, loaded the bodies in the back of Lisa Underwood's SUV and drove them to the sites -- the site where the bodies were found today and then also had called a business partner who lives in Tyler and was asking for help.

And at this point the affidavit -- there's some questions here in the affidavit that we still have but this would explain how Stephen Barbee ended up in Tyler. We presume that the two men drove to Tyler where Steven Barbee was taken into custody by Tyler police. In the affidavit it describes a business partner when he discovered what had happened became shocked and disturbed by what had happened. But this is the latest information from the affidavit and the affidavit also does go on to lay out that Stephen Barbee, police believe, is a quote from the affidavit, say "the alleged father" of the unborn child which answers -- many of the questions that have been lingering in this case throughout the day. Judy?

WOODRUFF: All right. CNN's Ed Lavandera on the phone with us from Fort Worth, bringing us the latest on this gruesome story out of Texas. Ed, thanks very much. And at the top of the hour, 4:00 Eastern we are expecting a news conference on the part of authorities in the Fort Worth area. Back now INSIDE POLITICS and it's time now to go inside the blogs where several stories we have reported are also, turns out, popular blog topics. I'm joined by Jacki Schechner, our blog reporter and Abbi Tatton, a CNN political producer. Jacki, what are you seeing?

JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The big story on the blogs that we're going to start out with today is USA Next, a conservative lobby group versus the AARP because the AARP is against President Bush's plan to privatize Social Security. So USA Next put out this advertisement all over the Internet today, especially on the blogs. We go to "Eschaton," at atrios.blog.com. We go over and it shows the ad. It has a military guy with a big red "x" over him, you can see here. And then a gay couple, two men kissing with a giant green checkmark. Now, what this has to do with the real AARP agenda is what's in question. Nobody understands how this is connected to anything.

ABBI TATTON, CNN PRODUCER: That's what liberal sites are picking up on. Another highly trafficked liberal site here. This is "Daily Kos." "Kos" has the ad. You can see it. A couple things to note of interest. Look, it says, "The real AARP agenda, click here for details." One would imagine details on the military or gay marriage. Well Kos points out that funny thing is you click on the ad and it goes to the USA Next home page. No effort even to argue the case that AARP is anti-troop and pro gay marriage. Another interesting thing to note is the origin of the ad.

The "American Spectator" site, a conservative magazine, looked for the ad there to see where it came from. If you click on the "American Spectator," the ad's not there anymore. We thought this was interesting, wondered why that happened. We contacted USA Next. And we got a statement from Charlie Jarvis the CEO of that company and he said actually this ad was a test. He wanted to see how the liberals would react, whether they would engage in the debate on the very popular important debate on Social Security or whether they would just run screaming. They said "Sadly the left are proved and chose anger and explosiveness about a simple image rather than dealing with the details of a critical issue.

SCHECHNER: But the image has nothing to do with Social Security and that's what the blogs have been talking about. We went outsidethebeltway.com a conservative site, called the spot rather disturbing and it says, and this is an interesting point because we thought this too, if the point was to click the ad and drive traffic over to USA Next, then mission accomplished. The ad had a strange image that had nothing to do with Social Security. Also you mentioned Daily Kos. Another thing we found as an example of how stories on the blogosphere converge, we heard about Jeff Gannon, we've heard about CBS Rathergate and the falsified memos. So we found this thing posted on Daily Kos over the weekend. And as you can see here, I tried to scroll down a bit for you.

It's a quote from Sean Hannity and he says, "Jeff Gannon a terrific Washington bureau chief and White House correspondent for Talon News actually shot me an e-mail about to break a story in an exclusive about the CBS documents." This is from the Sean Hannity show in September. Maybe nothing is going to come of this. It's just a good example of how these big stories we've been hearing on the blogosphere converge in very interesting ways.

TATTON: And more on the CBS documents. If you can believe it. Yesterday we brought you a story all over the conservative blogs. Here's one of them. Confederate Yankee still linking to it today. That's about New York Democratic Congressman Maurice Hinchey who made comments over the weekend about the possibility that senior White House adviser Karl Rove was implicated in the CBS story. Now Congressman Hinchey expanded a little bit on that story last night, made a statement, but he's going to be actually on IP, INSIDE POLITICS, in the second half of the show, talking more about that story.

SCHECHNER: So we'll hear what he has to say. Also, a call to arms today a call to action on the blogs especially on the conservative side regarding Terri Schiavo the woman in Florida in the center of the "right to die" controversy. The pro life, blogs, specifically prolifeblogs.com tells about ways you can help Terri's cause or ways to consider you're helping Terri's cause. And it actually has the breaking news. It says Greer gives Terri Schiavo another day. The judge issued a temporary stay until 5:00 p.m tomorrow. Michael Schiavo, her husband said he was going to pull out the feeding tube. Now she has a stay got until tomorrow. That's where it is right now. They're following that breaking news.

WOODRUFF: OK. We have Jackie Schechner with us again today and Abbi Tatton. Thank you both. Appreciate it.

And we will have much more on two of the stories they mentioned getting a lot of buzz on the blogs. I will speak with Congressman Maurice Hinchey about the accusations, is that coming up on INSIDE POLITICS. Plus a live report from Florida on the dueling legal decisions on whether Terri Schiavo will live off die. And will Florida Governor Jeb Bush jump into this issue?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It's 4:00 in the East. And as the markets get set to close on Wall Street, I'm joined by Christine Romans in New York with "The Dobbs Report." Hi, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Judy. A broad- based sell-off on Wall Street today after a huge spike in oil prices. Now the final trades are still being counted, but right now, the Dow industrials are down 173.5 points. That's the biggest one day drop in at least 5 months. The Nasdaq is more than one percent lower.

Crude oil climbed nearly $3, closing above $51 a barrel today for the first time since November. One reason for the jump in prices, cold weather both here and in Europe. There's also concern that OPEC will cut production at its meeting next month.

The dollar is steadying after plunging against other major currencies overnight. The Bank of South Korea said it would unload U.S. currency from its reserves, replacing it with other world currencies. If other nations follow suite, it could further reduce the value of the U.S. dollar. Toyota is looking to dethrone General Motors as the world's biggest automaker. The Japanese company confirms it may be looking to further expand its operations in North America. The "Wall Street Journal" says Toyota could add two more plants over the next decade. That's in addition to the new plants already in the works in Texas and Tennessee.

But G.M. is fighting back. The automaker is moving beyond buyer incentives and going to outright price cuts. G.M. lowered prices by as much as $2,000 on some of its mid-size SUVs, which are piling up on the dealer lot. Among them, the Chevy Trailblazer, the GMC Envoy and the Buick Ranier.

Coming up on CNN at 6:00 p.m. Eastern on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT," outsourcing your privacy. Some health care companies are sending your personal data overseas, where labor is cheaper and privacy standards weaker. But a new bill in the works would require health care companies to tell you if they plan to ship your personal information out of the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The problem for Americans is that a job is being sent to another country, but with that job also goes to the privacy -- the health care and financial and other privacy records of hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Also tonight, we'll have a special report on how states across the country are handling illegal aliens and drivers licenses.

Plus the Colorado legislator is now considering a critical bill that would prevent illegals from receiving non-emergency services. The bill's authors, Colorado state representative David Shulteis, will be our guest.

And a disturbing report that the bird flu could mutate in Asia, spreading from human to human in epidemic proportions. Dr. Anthony Fauci (ph) of the National Institute of Infectious Diseases joins me tonight. That and more, 6:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Now back to Judy Woodruff -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Christine, thanks very much. We'll be watching at 6:00. INSIDE POLITICS continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: A growing controversy has one of America's most prestigious universities in an uproar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've seen this fiasco as the attempt of a rampant political correctness to claim another victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The real issue is that the statements just are factually incorrect and that's pretty important.

ANNOUNCER: Just what did Harvard's president say about women and should he step out?

A Democratic Congressman lobs a political grenade at Karl Rove. Is this a wild accusation or is there proof behind the charges?

They've got the presidency on their mind, but before they run for the White House in '08, some presidential hopefuls might have to take care of business in '06.

Now, live from Washington, Judy Woodruff's INSIDE POLITICS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. At this hour a heated debate playing out again on the Harvard campus over the university president's controversial remarks about differences between men and women. Larry Summers is facing faculty members, many of whom are still up in arms over his explanation about the shortage of women in top science posts.

Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider went to Harvard to get a better handle on this flak.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What did Harvard president say to provoke so much controversy? Let's reconstruct the scene with Harvard economics professor Claudia Goldin, a Summers' defender who was there.

CLAUDIA GOLDIN, HARVARD ECONOMICS PROFESSOR: He brought with him a pad of paper, it was a yellow pad and it had -- and I saw it had exactly six words written on it. I have no idea what the words were, but that is what guided his talk. That is, there was no script, there was no formal speech.

SCHNEIDER: But there was a subject. Why are women underrepresented in science? Summers proposed three theories. One, less willingness to commit to a high-powered job.

GOLDIN: Individuals -- men versus women -- might make different choices.

SCHNEIDER: To Harvard Physics professor Lisa Randall, that raises a red flag.

LISA RANDALL, HARVARD PHYSICS PROFESSORS: To say it's just the woman's choice not to be serious about their work, that's a bit of an overstatement and, also, that obviously has a lot of cultural issues behind it.

SCHNEIDER: Two, less aptitude for math and science. Randall argues that can't be proved.

RANDALL: There's no way to establish the kind of intrinsic differences at this point, so, having a debate about it is just a debate about prejudices.

SCHNEIDER: Three -- discrimination. Young girls are discouraged and women face barriers. Summers concluded about the three theories: "Their importance probably ranks in exactly the order that I just described." Summers said his aim was to be provocative.

GOLDIN: He said not once, but I think three times in the discussion, I could be wrong. Prove me wrong.

SCHNEIDER: OK, Professor Randall responds.

GOLDIN: The real issue is that these statements just are factually incorrect and that's pretty important.

SCHNEIDER: To Summers' supporters like these Harvard students, the issue is political correctness versus academic freedom.

MATTHEW DOWNER, "STUDENTS FOR LARRY": We're coming together to say that we support academic freedom on this campus.

SCHNEIDER: And the faculty is continuing to do what Harvard professors do best, debate.

(on camera): It could end with a show of support for President Summers or a vote of no confidence or the most common academic conclusion, further research is need.

(voice-over): A purely academic argument? As president of one of the most prestigious universities in the world, what Summers says has consequences, as this physics student noted.

MARIANGELLA LISANTI, HARVARD-RADCLIFFE WOMEN IN SCIENCE: His words are going to be heard not only by the students on campus, but also by people all around the country, all around the world, including young girls.

SCHNEIDER: Which makes this academic debate far more than academic.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: So, Bill, you know, you were up there yesterday, you came back. Today the Harvard faculty is meeting again on the most unprecedented second meeting in a few days with Larry Summers. What's the point of all this today?

SCHNEIDER: To debate. That's what they do. They're having a meeting right now, in fact. It just started, it's likely to go on for a couple of hours, because so many professors wanted to speak. Many of them wanted to speak against President Summers last week and more this week, but also a lot of people who support President Summers and believe this is a -- he's being punished for political incorrectness want to say their piece and are going to show up at this meeting right now.

WOODRUFF: Is his job on the line, Bill? SCHNEIDER: Theoretically, it could be. The only people who could fire him, however, would be the Harvard corporation.

WOODRUFF: Back at the board of trustees.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, it's the board of trustees. It's a group, I think, of five individuals. But the faculty could, if they chose -- it would take a strong vote, could vote no confidence in the president and the university. That's not scheduled for today. It may come up at the next regular faculty meeting in March. And if that were to happen, he'd be under considerable pressure, I think, to resign. But nobody is forecasting that probability right now.

WOODRUFF: We're not there.

SCHNEIDER: We are not there. Right now, debate, debate, debate.

WOODRUFF: OK. Bill Schneider, thanks very much. Just freshly back from last week.

Now, we turn in another direction to Florida and a very different kind of controversy over the fate of a severely brain-damaged woman. There were no twists today in the Terri Schiavo case, but in the end, it went right back to legal limbo.

Let's check in with CNN'S Susan Candiotti. She is in Miami. Hi, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy. Well, green light, red light. That's pretty much how you could say it went legally today in the Terri Schiavo. And both legal developments came within about an hour of each other. First, a Florida appeals court in essence ruled that Terri Schiavo's husband Michael could remove his wife's feeding tube that's been keeping her alive for about 15 years now as she lies in a vegetative state. Well, that quickly prompted a disappointed reaction from Schiavo's parents, who have been battling against Terri's husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: We are begging and pleading with the legislators and Governor Bush to save Terri from being murdered in cold blood. And that's all I have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Then a short time later, a lower court that's been handling the case granted a temporary stay. It is in place until the end of the day tomorrow, but, first, that same lower court will hold an emergency hearing, expected to give Terri Schiavo's parents time to ask the court for more time to argue other legal issues. For example, demanding that Terri Schiavo be granted her own attorney and to ask for additional medical tests.

Well, Michael Schiavo's attorney -- the attorney for Terri's husband is saying, enough is enough and is calling all of this an abuse of the legal system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: As we've said time and time again, this case is about Terri Schiavo's wishes. Her wish is not to be force-fed against her will. Her wish is not to be kept alive artificially. These were her wishes, her constitutional rights, as determined by the courts.

CANDIOTTI: Meantime, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who has constantly backed Terri Schiavo's parents, says he will continue to support their efforts, through a spokesman, to keep Terri Schiavo alive. However, he is saying that he probably cannot issue another executive order.

You might remember that back in October of 2003 while the feeding tube had been removed for six days Governor Bush went to the legislature, got them to pass a law to have the feeding tube reinserted but then the Florida Supreme Court ruled that that law was unconstitutional. So his efforts might be limited legally at this point.

But, finally, Judy, we want to point out this. When Mr. Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo was asked whether he did anything during that one-hour window, at 1:00 this afternoon, after the appeals court said that the feeding tube could be removed, his answer was "no comment." So we don't know whether he took any action during that brief period of time before the stay was issued -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So very quickly, Susan, we don't know whether the governor or someone else may get involved.

CANDIOTTI: We don't know at this time. A lot could happen during that hearing tomorrow. We just don't know yet.

WOODRUFF: OK. Susan Candiotti watching a very fast-moving story down there in Florida. Thank you.

In New York, meantime, a Democratic congressman is making some serious accusations against Bush adviser Karl Rove. Up next, I'll ask Congressman Maurice Hinchey about his charge and whether he has any evidence to back it up.

And later, would-be presidential contenders like Mitt Romney and the more imminent contest they face before a possible run for the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We're going to take you to Fort Worth, Texas. These are police officials in Fort Worth bringing us new information on the case of the woman -- the pregnant Texas woman who was found dead along with her 7-year-old son. A man with whom she was once romantically involved has been arrested and charged with capital murder. His name is Stephen Barbee. This is -- the officials involved in this news conference, we are told, Lieutenant Gene Jones with the Fort Worth Police Department and perhaps we'll also hear from a Sergeant Renee Camper (ph). This is Lieutenant Jones.

LT. GENE JONES, FORT WORTH POLICE: We are here to confirm that a makeshift grave has been located in southwest Denton County. We were led to this location by Stephen Barbee after he provided a confession to our investigators.

With the assistance of the Tarrant County Medical Examiner's Office, we've begun processing the gravesite. Although at this time identification cannot be confirmed, we know that the grave contains the bodies of a female and a male consistent with the ages of Lisa Underwood and her son Jayden.

On behalf of Chief Ralph Mendoza and the Fort Worth Police Department, we'd like to express our appreciation to the many agencies that have assisted us with this lengthy investigation. Specifically, the Denton Police Department, the Denton County Sheriff's Office, the FBI, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Tyler Police Department and the North Lake (ph) Police Department.

We'd also like to express our thanks to the citizens of Fort Worth and those in the various states that provided us information for this investigation. And we also appreciate you, the media, in helping us to help make the public aware.

Lastly, Chief Mendoza wishes to express his appreciation to all the men and women of the Fort Worth Police Department who have worked tirelessly and diligently since this investigation began. Their service and dedication to the citizens of Fort Worth has been exemplary.

At this time, let me introduce to you Sergeant J.D. Thorton (ph) and Sergeant Renee Camper who will take some questions.

WOODRUFF: We are listening to a news conference coming to us from Fort Worth, Texas. Police authorities there talking about the discovery of two bodies in a shallow grave in the Fort Worth area. The two bodies we just heard the police official, Lieutenant Gene Jones, say appear to match the age of the pregnant woman, Lisa Underwood, who was found -- who disappeared over the last few days, and the other body appeared to match that of her 7-year-old son Jayden.

Police have taken into custody and charged with capital murder Stephen Barbee, who was romantically involved with Lisa Underwood. CNN will continue to follow this case and when we have more, we'll bring it to you.

We're going to take a short break now and when we come back, our interview with New York Congressman Maurice Hinchey and his allegations about the involvement he says of the White House of Karl Rove in the CBS documents' controversy. We'll be right back with that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: As we reported a little while ago in our blog segment, the Internet is abuzz with reaction to comments by New York Democratic Congressman Maurice Hinchey. The congressman over the weekend shared his views about the now disputed CBS News report about President Bush's Air National Guard service. Representative Maurice Hinchey is with me now, he joins us from Albany, New York.

Congressman Hinchey, what exactly did you say on Saturday at this town meeting in Ithaca?

REP. MAURICE HINCHEY (D), NEW YORK: Well, Judy, what I said came in response to a question from one of my constituents. There were about 100 people there. And they asked some questions about media manipulation. They were concerned about the issue of Armstrong Williams, for example, people being hired by this administration to pretend that they were giving objective news and information but were really putting forth the point of view of the administration rather than doing it objectively. And also the issue with Mr. Gannon, who was admitted to the White House press corps but who was not a legitimate press person, and was there just to throw softballs to the president.

And then the issue of the CBS Dan Rather event came up, and I said that there were false documents or documents which were falsified and presented as being accurate and there was a question as to where those documents came from. And in the context of the discussion I suggested that -- my theory was that I wouldn't be surprised if it came from the White House political operation, headed up by Karl Rove.

WOODRUFF: Well, I'm reading here a transcript of what you said, you said: "I have my own beliefs about how that happened. It originated with Karl Rove in my belief in the White House." What do you know that you base that on?

HINCHEY: Well, I think there's a great deal of circumstantial information and factual information. Mr. Rove, for example, has been involved in a host of political dirty tricks that are traceable back -- all the way back to the 1970s, '80s, '90s, right on up to the present. The way in which he treated Senator McCain, for example, in the context of the 2000 election.

So it doesn't take an awful lot of imagination if you're thinking about who it is that might have produced these false documents to try to mislead people in this very cynical way. It would take someone very brilliant, very cynical, very Machiavellian, and it doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with the name of Karl Rove as a possibility of having done that.

WOODRUFF: But, at this point, it is just imagination, is that correct?

HINCHEY: It's a possibility, yes. It's a possibility based upon circumstantial evidence and the history of his behavior over the course of several decades. WOODRUFF: Well, you know, there was an independent panel that CBS asked to look into this -- you know, to look into how CBS got these documents, what went wrong with the story that appears on "60 MINUTES." They were not able to conclude where these documents came from. They said, finally, they weren't even able to determine whether these documents were authentic or whether they were forged. So my question is, how are you in a position to know more than they or others who have investigated this now?

HINCHEY: Well, Judy, no one has come to any conclusions and that's the unfortunate thing. We need to get to the bottom of this. We need to get to the bottom of the whole business of manipulating the media that has gone on in the context of this administration.

I think that that's critically important. The essence of this democracy is really at stake. If people sitting back in their living rooms can't rely upon the information they're getting over the news channel or over the radio, then very important aspects of this Democratic system become eroded.

So, we need to get to the bottom of it, that's the point here. I'm quite surprised, frankly, that this has gotten all the attention that it has, but in a way I'm grateful that it has because it's important for us to be concerned about these things. Manipulating the media in this kind of a cynical way is antithetical to what we stand for as a nation, we need to find out who did it.

WOODRUFF: But some would say, listening to what you said and hearing your acknowledgment that you don't have any proof, that it's irresponsible or -- let me ask you, do you think it's responsible for you to say this without evidence?

HINCHEY: I think it's very responsible of me to speculate about where this manipulation is coming from. Yes. I think it's important to speculate about it, I think it's important to discuss it and I think it's important to try to stimulate the investigative agencies to look into this.

Unfortunately, the Congress is not doing its job. There are -- this is something that ought to be investigated by the Congress of the United States. But this Congress is not doing its job. It's not standing up for the American people the way it should. And, as a consequence, there is a certain amount of frustration out there and that frustration was voiced by the people who attended the meeting that I held last Saturday.

WOODRUFF: We're going to have to leave it there, Congressman Maurice Hinchey. And again, we did try to reach the White House to get their comment on all of this, we were not able to get a comment from them.

We'll be right back with more INSIDE POLITICS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Breaking news from the Associated Press out of Buckingham Palace. The Palace reporting that Queen Elizabeth will not attend the civil wedding ceremony of her son Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles when that wedding takes place on April 8th. The palace is letting it be known that the queen will not attend the wedding, but that she will attend the blessing of the wedding afterwards at a chapel. We're told that the children of Prince Charles, both Prince William and Prince Harry and the children of Camilla Parker Bowles will be there, but Queen Elizabeth II will not attend.

More INSIDE POLITICS after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We're out of time for INSIDE POLITICS. Thank you for joining us. I'm Judy Woodruff. "CROSSFIRE" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 22, 2005 - 15:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: The NATO class of 2005. After the summit in Brussels, is President Bush more popular?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The major issue that irritated a lot of Europeans was Iraq. I understand that. I can figure it out. And the key now is to put that behind us.

ANNOUNCER: They were bitter political opponents.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER U.S PRESIDENT: He made it look too easy, and oh how I hated him for that.

ANNOUNCER: Now they're chummy traveling companions.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He's in better shape than I am. I'm having heart surgery. He's jumping out of airplanes.

ANNOUNCER: What's the secret to this new friendship between former presidents?

Imagine this -- Hillary Clinton versus Condi Rice for president. Could the next election put a woman in the White House?

Now live from Washington, JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us. President Bush balked today when a reporter characterized his European tour as a charm offensive. Mr. Bush says it's more like a listening tour, and he may have gotten an earful during talks with NATO and European Union leaders. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is with the president in Brussels. Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy. Well, many people here calling it a charm offensive day two of that as a matter of fact, and they see the diplomacy may actually be paying off for President Bush.

(voice-over): He had a very busy day today, attending summits of NATO as well as the European Union. He walked away from those summits getting what he worked so hard for, that is a renewed sense of friendship with European allies as well as a commitment to help train Iraqi troops. This, the first critical test to the u.s. Exit strategy. All 26 NATO members pledged to contribute to trading mission in some way from Poland's deployment of some 40 troops to Iraq to France's commit of one officers who will help coordinate this mission out of Brussels. Now, despite the modest contribution from some of these members, Mr. Bush rejected this notion that NATO's effort today was simply symbolic.

GEORGE W. BUSH: Every contribution matters. 26 nations sit around that table said it's important for NATO to be involved in Iraq. That's a strong statement and NATO is involved in Iraq and NATO is doing a vital mission which is to help an office corps emerge.

MALVEAUX: Of course, Judy, on this high profile day of diplomacy, there were times when the leaders remarked almost boarded on hyperbole. President Bush saying that NATO's the most successful alliance in the history of the world, but towards the end of the day it seemed like this flowery language seemed to wear thin and it also has became clear their differences in how the U.S. as well as Europe approaches or perceives the approaches to potential threats particularly when it comes to the threat of Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH: This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And, of course, Judy some people seeing that as the president once again trying to have it both ways. It also became very clear as well many differences when it comes to policy issues. Again, the issue of China, the EU wants to go ahead and lift that arms embargo. Today, President Bush threatening, saying that U.S. Congress would take a very close look at that, perhaps even restricting the kind of exports, U.S. exports of defense material to those countries that it feels would pass along that technology to China -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So, Suzanne a clear difference of opinion between the president and some of the other European leaders over Iran in particular?

MALVEAUX: Well, yes, that's right. I mean it's really been a source of contention here. President Bush moving a little bit closer to the EU's side, however saying that they will take a look to see just whether or not those negotiations, those talks, produce any kind of results. But at the same time, there is very -- there is a lot of skepticism on the part of the Bush administration in terms of offering the kind of economic and diplomatic incentives that Europeans would like to offer Iran. Again, many people looking at that comment that the president made earlier, saying OK, well perhaps he's not preparing for military attack, but at the same time, sending a mixed message here that is still very much on the table.

WOODRUFF: That's right. Saying, I believe we heard him say" all options are on the table." OK. Suzanne Malveaux following the president in Europe. Thanks, Suzanne. While Mr. Bush is urging European leaders to help him spread democracy a new poll shows the European people have doubts about whether that should be the United States' role in the world. The Associated Press/Ipsos International poll shows a majority of people in allied countries and here in the U.S. do not think it is America's role to spread democracy abroad.

In today's security watch, an American citizen who had been detained in Saudi Arabia as the suspected terrorist was charged today with involvement in a possible plot to assassinate President Bush in 2002 and 203. Ahmed Abu-Ali appeared in U.S. district court in Virginia but did not enter a plea. He also was charged with supporting the Al Qaeda terrorist network. If convicted of all six counts against him, Abu -Ali would face a maximum of 80 years in prison. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Only a handful of people on this planet have experienced the risks and the rewards of being president of the United States. Two of them, it turns out, appear to have struck up a somewhat unlikely friendship, given their political history together. CNN's Kelly Wallace reports on the relationship between former presidents Clinton and Bush sealed during their tour of the tsunami disaster zone.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you didn't know it, you might think they were running mates, not former rivals. Just watch and listen.

CLINTON: He's in better shape than I am. I'm having heart surgery. He's jumping out of airplanes.

WALLACE: Yukking it up and heaping praise on the other every chance they get.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH: I got a little age on President Clinton. I have a little age going.

WALLACE: The warmth between the ex-presidents was evident last month at the White House.

GEORGE W. BUSH: I'm honored to be standing here with two former presidents.

WALLACE: But you could also see the bond months earlier in the smiles at the World War II dedication ceremony and in the words at the opening of President Clinton's library.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH: Simply put he was a natural and made it look too easy and oh how I hated him for that.

WALLACE: What happened to the bitterness, and there was bitterness? It was after-all an election Republican strategists say President Bush never expected to lose to the Arkansas governor.

ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Both are very warm men, and so, you know, it's one thing to be in a political battle as they were, you know, 12 years ago, but, you know, it all goes away.

WALLACE: And something else happens between members of that very exclusive club, only four living members now, the ex-presidents, says Jack Valenti, long-time aide to President Johnson.

JACK VALENTI, FORMER JOHNSON AIDE: Only they understand the problems, the pressures, the disappointments and sometimes triumphs that presidents deal with.

WALLACE: Could the between 41 and 42 help 43 as he begins his second term, and a woman who may try to become 44? Our Washington observers say possibly, but they say it won't likely end the partisan bickering.

ROLLINS: I don't think it has any relationship whatsoever to what's going on in Washington today.

WALLACE (on camera): And so maybe there is no bigger message than this -- that two former political rivals can put aside their differences and do something both Democrats and Republicans can support. Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

WOODRUFF: And with a little help from the passage of time. Thank you, Kelly.

So far the presidency has been a men-only club. Up next, are Americans kicking up their heels at the thought of a woman in the White House? Elizabeth Dole didn't get that far, but could things change in 2008?

Plus, I'll ask a Democratic congressman about his new and sensational accusation against bush adviser Karl Rove. That charge is causing a stir on line. We'll take you inside the blogs ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: A new poll finds 60 percent of registered voters say they expect that a woman will be the Democratic presidential nominee in 2008. And 18 percent expect a woman to lead the Republican ticket. So, are Americans truly ready for a woman to be in charge of the country? Our Bruce Morton takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixty-two percent of the registered voters in a Hearse Newspaper/Siena College poll say the U.S. is ready for a woman president. Eighty-one percent say they'd vote for one. Well, women have run for president. Democrat Shirley Chisholm in 1972. Republican Elizabeth Dole in 2000. But they didn't win. Geraldine Ferraro, Walter Mondale's running mate in 1984 is the only woman ever on a major national ticket but they didn't win either. And there's a problem. Would you vote for a woman, would you vote for an African American are the kind of questions voters like to answer with a yes, I'm not prejudiced, not sexist. In 1989 David Dinkins got elected mayor of New York and Douglas Wilder governor of Virginia. But both did better in the polls than on election day. Might this poll have the same problem?

KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: In races where there have been black candidates on the ballot, it looks like occasionally respondents have been telling pollsters what they think the pollsters want to hear rather than what they actually believe. We'll see in 2008 whether or not that's the case if there are any women on the ballot when we're asking about gender rather than race.

MORTON: Still, women are serious players in the 2008 sweepstakes in a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll earlier this month, Hillary Clinton was the most popular '08 choice among Democrats. Forty percent picked her, ahead of John Kerry and John Edwards. She gets high negatives in national polls but that's probably because she's seen as an East Coast liberal not because she's a woman. The Republicans 2008 choices were Rudy Giuliani followed by John McCain and Jeb Bush, all guys, of course. Still, at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference this past weekend there was a group that wants to draft Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. They have a radio ad and first caucus Iowa.

ANNOUNCER: Dedicated to electing Dr. Condoleezza Rice president in 2008.

MORTON: They have a song.

(MUSIC)

MORTON: So, who knows, Hillary a front runner, Condi a glamorous figure, astride the world stage. India Indira Gandhi in 1966. Britain elected Margaret Thatcher in 1979. How long will it take the United States to catch up? Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Is that one regard where we are behind.

Checking the Tuesday political bytes, another GOP moderate is taking the stage in a southern red state. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is in Mississippi today attending a fund raising luncheon in Jackson for GOP Senator Trent Lott.

(voice-over): As we told you yesterday, Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and another potential White House hopeful delivered a speech last night in South Carolina.

The two political parties head into a new year with a big difference in their bank accounts. The Republican National Committee had more than $16 million on hand at the start of this month. The DNC had about $2.5 million. One of the first Web ads for the USA Next campaign against the AARP appeared on the American Spectator magazine Web site yesterday. The ad has since been removed from that site. USA Next is a conservative lobbying grown formerly known as the United Seniors Association. The group is targeting the AARP for its opposition to the president's Social Security reform plan. Every few seconds an "x" appeared in the ad over the photo a soldier and a check over the gay couple. The photo of the couple is an apparent reference to the Ohio AARP's opposition to that state's anti-gay marriage amendment. In a statement, Charlie Jarvis, the leader USA Next tells CNN, quote, "we are going to be revealing areas where the AARP is out of touch with a large number of their members, including the issue of marriage." End quote.

(on camera): Charlie Jarvis will be among our guests tomorrow here on INSIDE POLITICS.

We'll have more on the USA Next ad campaign when we go inside the blogs next. Our blog reporters will tell us what people are talking about on line including today's legal developments in the Terri Schiavo court case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Before we get back to INSIDE POLITICS, there's been another development in the case of a Texas woman, a pregnant woman murdered along with her 7-year-old son. For the latest let's go to CNN's Ed Lavandera. He's on the phone with us from Fort Worth, Texas. Ed, what is happening?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): Judy, just a short while ago we received a copy of the arrest warrant affidavit that has been filed in court for arrest of 37-year-old Stephen Barbee and in this affidavit it essentially lays out what police say has happened since Friday night when the Underwood family was last seen. And essentially it says late Friday night, Stephen Barbee that on late Friday night, Stephen Barbee showed up at the house of Lisa Underwood where they got into an argument and then it lays out in the affidavit that Steven Barbee choked and suffocated Lisa Underwood and then proceed to do the same to 7-year-old Jayden Underwood. The affidavit also goes on to lay out how he then took the body from the home, loaded the bodies in the back of Lisa Underwood's SUV and drove them to the sites -- the site where the bodies were found today and then also had called a business partner who lives in Tyler and was asking for help.

And at this point the affidavit -- there's some questions here in the affidavit that we still have but this would explain how Stephen Barbee ended up in Tyler. We presume that the two men drove to Tyler where Steven Barbee was taken into custody by Tyler police. In the affidavit it describes a business partner when he discovered what had happened became shocked and disturbed by what had happened. But this is the latest information from the affidavit and the affidavit also does go on to lay out that Stephen Barbee, police believe, is a quote from the affidavit, say "the alleged father" of the unborn child which answers -- many of the questions that have been lingering in this case throughout the day. Judy?

WOODRUFF: All right. CNN's Ed Lavandera on the phone with us from Fort Worth, bringing us the latest on this gruesome story out of Texas. Ed, thanks very much. And at the top of the hour, 4:00 Eastern we are expecting a news conference on the part of authorities in the Fort Worth area. Back now INSIDE POLITICS and it's time now to go inside the blogs where several stories we have reported are also, turns out, popular blog topics. I'm joined by Jacki Schechner, our blog reporter and Abbi Tatton, a CNN political producer. Jacki, what are you seeing?

JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The big story on the blogs that we're going to start out with today is USA Next, a conservative lobby group versus the AARP because the AARP is against President Bush's plan to privatize Social Security. So USA Next put out this advertisement all over the Internet today, especially on the blogs. We go to "Eschaton," at atrios.blog.com. We go over and it shows the ad. It has a military guy with a big red "x" over him, you can see here. And then a gay couple, two men kissing with a giant green checkmark. Now, what this has to do with the real AARP agenda is what's in question. Nobody understands how this is connected to anything.

ABBI TATTON, CNN PRODUCER: That's what liberal sites are picking up on. Another highly trafficked liberal site here. This is "Daily Kos." "Kos" has the ad. You can see it. A couple things to note of interest. Look, it says, "The real AARP agenda, click here for details." One would imagine details on the military or gay marriage. Well Kos points out that funny thing is you click on the ad and it goes to the USA Next home page. No effort even to argue the case that AARP is anti-troop and pro gay marriage. Another interesting thing to note is the origin of the ad.

The "American Spectator" site, a conservative magazine, looked for the ad there to see where it came from. If you click on the "American Spectator," the ad's not there anymore. We thought this was interesting, wondered why that happened. We contacted USA Next. And we got a statement from Charlie Jarvis the CEO of that company and he said actually this ad was a test. He wanted to see how the liberals would react, whether they would engage in the debate on the very popular important debate on Social Security or whether they would just run screaming. They said "Sadly the left are proved and chose anger and explosiveness about a simple image rather than dealing with the details of a critical issue.

SCHECHNER: But the image has nothing to do with Social Security and that's what the blogs have been talking about. We went outsidethebeltway.com a conservative site, called the spot rather disturbing and it says, and this is an interesting point because we thought this too, if the point was to click the ad and drive traffic over to USA Next, then mission accomplished. The ad had a strange image that had nothing to do with Social Security. Also you mentioned Daily Kos. Another thing we found as an example of how stories on the blogosphere converge, we heard about Jeff Gannon, we've heard about CBS Rathergate and the falsified memos. So we found this thing posted on Daily Kos over the weekend. And as you can see here, I tried to scroll down a bit for you.

It's a quote from Sean Hannity and he says, "Jeff Gannon a terrific Washington bureau chief and White House correspondent for Talon News actually shot me an e-mail about to break a story in an exclusive about the CBS documents." This is from the Sean Hannity show in September. Maybe nothing is going to come of this. It's just a good example of how these big stories we've been hearing on the blogosphere converge in very interesting ways.

TATTON: And more on the CBS documents. If you can believe it. Yesterday we brought you a story all over the conservative blogs. Here's one of them. Confederate Yankee still linking to it today. That's about New York Democratic Congressman Maurice Hinchey who made comments over the weekend about the possibility that senior White House adviser Karl Rove was implicated in the CBS story. Now Congressman Hinchey expanded a little bit on that story last night, made a statement, but he's going to be actually on IP, INSIDE POLITICS, in the second half of the show, talking more about that story.

SCHECHNER: So we'll hear what he has to say. Also, a call to arms today a call to action on the blogs especially on the conservative side regarding Terri Schiavo the woman in Florida in the center of the "right to die" controversy. The pro life, blogs, specifically prolifeblogs.com tells about ways you can help Terri's cause or ways to consider you're helping Terri's cause. And it actually has the breaking news. It says Greer gives Terri Schiavo another day. The judge issued a temporary stay until 5:00 p.m tomorrow. Michael Schiavo, her husband said he was going to pull out the feeding tube. Now she has a stay got until tomorrow. That's where it is right now. They're following that breaking news.

WOODRUFF: OK. We have Jackie Schechner with us again today and Abbi Tatton. Thank you both. Appreciate it.

And we will have much more on two of the stories they mentioned getting a lot of buzz on the blogs. I will speak with Congressman Maurice Hinchey about the accusations, is that coming up on INSIDE POLITICS. Plus a live report from Florida on the dueling legal decisions on whether Terri Schiavo will live off die. And will Florida Governor Jeb Bush jump into this issue?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It's 4:00 in the East. And as the markets get set to close on Wall Street, I'm joined by Christine Romans in New York with "The Dobbs Report." Hi, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Judy. A broad- based sell-off on Wall Street today after a huge spike in oil prices. Now the final trades are still being counted, but right now, the Dow industrials are down 173.5 points. That's the biggest one day drop in at least 5 months. The Nasdaq is more than one percent lower.

Crude oil climbed nearly $3, closing above $51 a barrel today for the first time since November. One reason for the jump in prices, cold weather both here and in Europe. There's also concern that OPEC will cut production at its meeting next month.

The dollar is steadying after plunging against other major currencies overnight. The Bank of South Korea said it would unload U.S. currency from its reserves, replacing it with other world currencies. If other nations follow suite, it could further reduce the value of the U.S. dollar. Toyota is looking to dethrone General Motors as the world's biggest automaker. The Japanese company confirms it may be looking to further expand its operations in North America. The "Wall Street Journal" says Toyota could add two more plants over the next decade. That's in addition to the new plants already in the works in Texas and Tennessee.

But G.M. is fighting back. The automaker is moving beyond buyer incentives and going to outright price cuts. G.M. lowered prices by as much as $2,000 on some of its mid-size SUVs, which are piling up on the dealer lot. Among them, the Chevy Trailblazer, the GMC Envoy and the Buick Ranier.

Coming up on CNN at 6:00 p.m. Eastern on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT," outsourcing your privacy. Some health care companies are sending your personal data overseas, where labor is cheaper and privacy standards weaker. But a new bill in the works would require health care companies to tell you if they plan to ship your personal information out of the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The problem for Americans is that a job is being sent to another country, but with that job also goes to the privacy -- the health care and financial and other privacy records of hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Also tonight, we'll have a special report on how states across the country are handling illegal aliens and drivers licenses.

Plus the Colorado legislator is now considering a critical bill that would prevent illegals from receiving non-emergency services. The bill's authors, Colorado state representative David Shulteis, will be our guest.

And a disturbing report that the bird flu could mutate in Asia, spreading from human to human in epidemic proportions. Dr. Anthony Fauci (ph) of the National Institute of Infectious Diseases joins me tonight. That and more, 6:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Now back to Judy Woodruff -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Christine, thanks very much. We'll be watching at 6:00. INSIDE POLITICS continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: A growing controversy has one of America's most prestigious universities in an uproar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've seen this fiasco as the attempt of a rampant political correctness to claim another victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The real issue is that the statements just are factually incorrect and that's pretty important.

ANNOUNCER: Just what did Harvard's president say about women and should he step out?

A Democratic Congressman lobs a political grenade at Karl Rove. Is this a wild accusation or is there proof behind the charges?

They've got the presidency on their mind, but before they run for the White House in '08, some presidential hopefuls might have to take care of business in '06.

Now, live from Washington, Judy Woodruff's INSIDE POLITICS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. At this hour a heated debate playing out again on the Harvard campus over the university president's controversial remarks about differences between men and women. Larry Summers is facing faculty members, many of whom are still up in arms over his explanation about the shortage of women in top science posts.

Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider went to Harvard to get a better handle on this flak.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What did Harvard president say to provoke so much controversy? Let's reconstruct the scene with Harvard economics professor Claudia Goldin, a Summers' defender who was there.

CLAUDIA GOLDIN, HARVARD ECONOMICS PROFESSOR: He brought with him a pad of paper, it was a yellow pad and it had -- and I saw it had exactly six words written on it. I have no idea what the words were, but that is what guided his talk. That is, there was no script, there was no formal speech.

SCHNEIDER: But there was a subject. Why are women underrepresented in science? Summers proposed three theories. One, less willingness to commit to a high-powered job.

GOLDIN: Individuals -- men versus women -- might make different choices.

SCHNEIDER: To Harvard Physics professor Lisa Randall, that raises a red flag.

LISA RANDALL, HARVARD PHYSICS PROFESSORS: To say it's just the woman's choice not to be serious about their work, that's a bit of an overstatement and, also, that obviously has a lot of cultural issues behind it.

SCHNEIDER: Two, less aptitude for math and science. Randall argues that can't be proved.

RANDALL: There's no way to establish the kind of intrinsic differences at this point, so, having a debate about it is just a debate about prejudices.

SCHNEIDER: Three -- discrimination. Young girls are discouraged and women face barriers. Summers concluded about the three theories: "Their importance probably ranks in exactly the order that I just described." Summers said his aim was to be provocative.

GOLDIN: He said not once, but I think three times in the discussion, I could be wrong. Prove me wrong.

SCHNEIDER: OK, Professor Randall responds.

GOLDIN: The real issue is that these statements just are factually incorrect and that's pretty important.

SCHNEIDER: To Summers' supporters like these Harvard students, the issue is political correctness versus academic freedom.

MATTHEW DOWNER, "STUDENTS FOR LARRY": We're coming together to say that we support academic freedom on this campus.

SCHNEIDER: And the faculty is continuing to do what Harvard professors do best, debate.

(on camera): It could end with a show of support for President Summers or a vote of no confidence or the most common academic conclusion, further research is need.

(voice-over): A purely academic argument? As president of one of the most prestigious universities in the world, what Summers says has consequences, as this physics student noted.

MARIANGELLA LISANTI, HARVARD-RADCLIFFE WOMEN IN SCIENCE: His words are going to be heard not only by the students on campus, but also by people all around the country, all around the world, including young girls.

SCHNEIDER: Which makes this academic debate far more than academic.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: So, Bill, you know, you were up there yesterday, you came back. Today the Harvard faculty is meeting again on the most unprecedented second meeting in a few days with Larry Summers. What's the point of all this today?

SCHNEIDER: To debate. That's what they do. They're having a meeting right now, in fact. It just started, it's likely to go on for a couple of hours, because so many professors wanted to speak. Many of them wanted to speak against President Summers last week and more this week, but also a lot of people who support President Summers and believe this is a -- he's being punished for political incorrectness want to say their piece and are going to show up at this meeting right now.

WOODRUFF: Is his job on the line, Bill? SCHNEIDER: Theoretically, it could be. The only people who could fire him, however, would be the Harvard corporation.

WOODRUFF: Back at the board of trustees.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, it's the board of trustees. It's a group, I think, of five individuals. But the faculty could, if they chose -- it would take a strong vote, could vote no confidence in the president and the university. That's not scheduled for today. It may come up at the next regular faculty meeting in March. And if that were to happen, he'd be under considerable pressure, I think, to resign. But nobody is forecasting that probability right now.

WOODRUFF: We're not there.

SCHNEIDER: We are not there. Right now, debate, debate, debate.

WOODRUFF: OK. Bill Schneider, thanks very much. Just freshly back from last week.

Now, we turn in another direction to Florida and a very different kind of controversy over the fate of a severely brain-damaged woman. There were no twists today in the Terri Schiavo case, but in the end, it went right back to legal limbo.

Let's check in with CNN'S Susan Candiotti. She is in Miami. Hi, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy. Well, green light, red light. That's pretty much how you could say it went legally today in the Terri Schiavo. And both legal developments came within about an hour of each other. First, a Florida appeals court in essence ruled that Terri Schiavo's husband Michael could remove his wife's feeding tube that's been keeping her alive for about 15 years now as she lies in a vegetative state. Well, that quickly prompted a disappointed reaction from Schiavo's parents, who have been battling against Terri's husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: We are begging and pleading with the legislators and Governor Bush to save Terri from being murdered in cold blood. And that's all I have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Then a short time later, a lower court that's been handling the case granted a temporary stay. It is in place until the end of the day tomorrow, but, first, that same lower court will hold an emergency hearing, expected to give Terri Schiavo's parents time to ask the court for more time to argue other legal issues. For example, demanding that Terri Schiavo be granted her own attorney and to ask for additional medical tests.

Well, Michael Schiavo's attorney -- the attorney for Terri's husband is saying, enough is enough and is calling all of this an abuse of the legal system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: As we've said time and time again, this case is about Terri Schiavo's wishes. Her wish is not to be force-fed against her will. Her wish is not to be kept alive artificially. These were her wishes, her constitutional rights, as determined by the courts.

CANDIOTTI: Meantime, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who has constantly backed Terri Schiavo's parents, says he will continue to support their efforts, through a spokesman, to keep Terri Schiavo alive. However, he is saying that he probably cannot issue another executive order.

You might remember that back in October of 2003 while the feeding tube had been removed for six days Governor Bush went to the legislature, got them to pass a law to have the feeding tube reinserted but then the Florida Supreme Court ruled that that law was unconstitutional. So his efforts might be limited legally at this point.

But, finally, Judy, we want to point out this. When Mr. Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo was asked whether he did anything during that one-hour window, at 1:00 this afternoon, after the appeals court said that the feeding tube could be removed, his answer was "no comment." So we don't know whether he took any action during that brief period of time before the stay was issued -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So very quickly, Susan, we don't know whether the governor or someone else may get involved.

CANDIOTTI: We don't know at this time. A lot could happen during that hearing tomorrow. We just don't know yet.

WOODRUFF: OK. Susan Candiotti watching a very fast-moving story down there in Florida. Thank you.

In New York, meantime, a Democratic congressman is making some serious accusations against Bush adviser Karl Rove. Up next, I'll ask Congressman Maurice Hinchey about his charge and whether he has any evidence to back it up.

And later, would-be presidential contenders like Mitt Romney and the more imminent contest they face before a possible run for the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We're going to take you to Fort Worth, Texas. These are police officials in Fort Worth bringing us new information on the case of the woman -- the pregnant Texas woman who was found dead along with her 7-year-old son. A man with whom she was once romantically involved has been arrested and charged with capital murder. His name is Stephen Barbee. This is -- the officials involved in this news conference, we are told, Lieutenant Gene Jones with the Fort Worth Police Department and perhaps we'll also hear from a Sergeant Renee Camper (ph). This is Lieutenant Jones.

LT. GENE JONES, FORT WORTH POLICE: We are here to confirm that a makeshift grave has been located in southwest Denton County. We were led to this location by Stephen Barbee after he provided a confession to our investigators.

With the assistance of the Tarrant County Medical Examiner's Office, we've begun processing the gravesite. Although at this time identification cannot be confirmed, we know that the grave contains the bodies of a female and a male consistent with the ages of Lisa Underwood and her son Jayden.

On behalf of Chief Ralph Mendoza and the Fort Worth Police Department, we'd like to express our appreciation to the many agencies that have assisted us with this lengthy investigation. Specifically, the Denton Police Department, the Denton County Sheriff's Office, the FBI, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Tyler Police Department and the North Lake (ph) Police Department.

We'd also like to express our thanks to the citizens of Fort Worth and those in the various states that provided us information for this investigation. And we also appreciate you, the media, in helping us to help make the public aware.

Lastly, Chief Mendoza wishes to express his appreciation to all the men and women of the Fort Worth Police Department who have worked tirelessly and diligently since this investigation began. Their service and dedication to the citizens of Fort Worth has been exemplary.

At this time, let me introduce to you Sergeant J.D. Thorton (ph) and Sergeant Renee Camper who will take some questions.

WOODRUFF: We are listening to a news conference coming to us from Fort Worth, Texas. Police authorities there talking about the discovery of two bodies in a shallow grave in the Fort Worth area. The two bodies we just heard the police official, Lieutenant Gene Jones, say appear to match the age of the pregnant woman, Lisa Underwood, who was found -- who disappeared over the last few days, and the other body appeared to match that of her 7-year-old son Jayden.

Police have taken into custody and charged with capital murder Stephen Barbee, who was romantically involved with Lisa Underwood. CNN will continue to follow this case and when we have more, we'll bring it to you.

We're going to take a short break now and when we come back, our interview with New York Congressman Maurice Hinchey and his allegations about the involvement he says of the White House of Karl Rove in the CBS documents' controversy. We'll be right back with that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: As we reported a little while ago in our blog segment, the Internet is abuzz with reaction to comments by New York Democratic Congressman Maurice Hinchey. The congressman over the weekend shared his views about the now disputed CBS News report about President Bush's Air National Guard service. Representative Maurice Hinchey is with me now, he joins us from Albany, New York.

Congressman Hinchey, what exactly did you say on Saturday at this town meeting in Ithaca?

REP. MAURICE HINCHEY (D), NEW YORK: Well, Judy, what I said came in response to a question from one of my constituents. There were about 100 people there. And they asked some questions about media manipulation. They were concerned about the issue of Armstrong Williams, for example, people being hired by this administration to pretend that they were giving objective news and information but were really putting forth the point of view of the administration rather than doing it objectively. And also the issue with Mr. Gannon, who was admitted to the White House press corps but who was not a legitimate press person, and was there just to throw softballs to the president.

And then the issue of the CBS Dan Rather event came up, and I said that there were false documents or documents which were falsified and presented as being accurate and there was a question as to where those documents came from. And in the context of the discussion I suggested that -- my theory was that I wouldn't be surprised if it came from the White House political operation, headed up by Karl Rove.

WOODRUFF: Well, I'm reading here a transcript of what you said, you said: "I have my own beliefs about how that happened. It originated with Karl Rove in my belief in the White House." What do you know that you base that on?

HINCHEY: Well, I think there's a great deal of circumstantial information and factual information. Mr. Rove, for example, has been involved in a host of political dirty tricks that are traceable back -- all the way back to the 1970s, '80s, '90s, right on up to the present. The way in which he treated Senator McCain, for example, in the context of the 2000 election.

So it doesn't take an awful lot of imagination if you're thinking about who it is that might have produced these false documents to try to mislead people in this very cynical way. It would take someone very brilliant, very cynical, very Machiavellian, and it doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with the name of Karl Rove as a possibility of having done that.

WOODRUFF: But, at this point, it is just imagination, is that correct?

HINCHEY: It's a possibility, yes. It's a possibility based upon circumstantial evidence and the history of his behavior over the course of several decades. WOODRUFF: Well, you know, there was an independent panel that CBS asked to look into this -- you know, to look into how CBS got these documents, what went wrong with the story that appears on "60 MINUTES." They were not able to conclude where these documents came from. They said, finally, they weren't even able to determine whether these documents were authentic or whether they were forged. So my question is, how are you in a position to know more than they or others who have investigated this now?

HINCHEY: Well, Judy, no one has come to any conclusions and that's the unfortunate thing. We need to get to the bottom of this. We need to get to the bottom of the whole business of manipulating the media that has gone on in the context of this administration.

I think that that's critically important. The essence of this democracy is really at stake. If people sitting back in their living rooms can't rely upon the information they're getting over the news channel or over the radio, then very important aspects of this Democratic system become eroded.

So, we need to get to the bottom of it, that's the point here. I'm quite surprised, frankly, that this has gotten all the attention that it has, but in a way I'm grateful that it has because it's important for us to be concerned about these things. Manipulating the media in this kind of a cynical way is antithetical to what we stand for as a nation, we need to find out who did it.

WOODRUFF: But some would say, listening to what you said and hearing your acknowledgment that you don't have any proof, that it's irresponsible or -- let me ask you, do you think it's responsible for you to say this without evidence?

HINCHEY: I think it's very responsible of me to speculate about where this manipulation is coming from. Yes. I think it's important to speculate about it, I think it's important to discuss it and I think it's important to try to stimulate the investigative agencies to look into this.

Unfortunately, the Congress is not doing its job. There are -- this is something that ought to be investigated by the Congress of the United States. But this Congress is not doing its job. It's not standing up for the American people the way it should. And, as a consequence, there is a certain amount of frustration out there and that frustration was voiced by the people who attended the meeting that I held last Saturday.

WOODRUFF: We're going to have to leave it there, Congressman Maurice Hinchey. And again, we did try to reach the White House to get their comment on all of this, we were not able to get a comment from them.

We'll be right back with more INSIDE POLITICS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Breaking news from the Associated Press out of Buckingham Palace. The Palace reporting that Queen Elizabeth will not attend the civil wedding ceremony of her son Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles when that wedding takes place on April 8th. The palace is letting it be known that the queen will not attend the wedding, but that she will attend the blessing of the wedding afterwards at a chapel. We're told that the children of Prince Charles, both Prince William and Prince Harry and the children of Camilla Parker Bowles will be there, but Queen Elizabeth II will not attend.

More INSIDE POLITICS after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We're out of time for INSIDE POLITICS. Thank you for joining us. I'm Judy Woodruff. "CROSSFIRE" starts right now.

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