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Nancy Grace

Pregnant Woman, Son Found Murdered

Aired February 22, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Last night, we joined Texas police to beg for your help locating a beautiful Texas mom, seven-months pregnant with her second child.
Tonight, an unhappy ending: Lisa Underwood and her son, seven-year- old Jayden Underwood, found murdered, their bodies hastily buried in a shallow grave near a motor speedway.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

The bodies of Lisa Underwood, seven-months pregnant, and seven-year- old son, Jayden, discovered today in a makeshift grave 40 miles north of Dallas. Underwood`s ex-boyfriend being held tonight on a $2 million bond.

Thirty-seven-year-old Stephen Barbee as of tonight is behind bars in Fort Worth, Texas, charged with two counts of capital murder. Barbee allegedly confessed to police in Tyler, Texas, that he suffocated both Lisa Underwood and the little boy, Jayden. Authorities are still unsure if Barbee was the father of Underwood`s unborn baby.

Underwood went missing Saturday, just hours before a baby shower in her honor. First disturbing sign: A pool of blood found in her home and recognizable items out of place. Then, Underwood`s Dodge Durango found partially submerged in a creek yesterday close to where the bodies were ultimately found. Here`s the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GENE JONES, FORT WORTH POLICE DEPT.: We are here to confirm that a makeshift grave has been located in southwest Denton County. We were led to this location by Stephen Barbee after he provided a confession to our investigators.

With the assistance of the Tarrant County medical examiner`s office, we`ve begun processing the grave site. Although, at this time, identification cannot be confirmed, we know that the grave contains the bodies of a female and a male consistent with the ages of Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are now joined by David Majia, Jayden`s grandfather.

Along with him, family cousin and family spokesperson, Carl Butcher.

Shortly, we`ll be joined by Jayden`s first-grade teacher -- it hurts me just to even say "first-grade teacher" -- Janice Freeman will be with us.

Right now, let`s go to Jayden`s grandfather. He is speaking out for the first time on the air waves tonight.

Mr. Majia, thank you so much for being with us.

DAVID MEJIA, GRANDFATHER OF SLAIN CHILD: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Mr. Majia, as a crime victim myself, I get a sense of a little bit of what you`re going through tonight. I want to tell you that our whole staff is so sorry for what your family is going through.

MAJIA: We thank you very much for that.

GRACE: Mr. Majia, we`ve seen photos of Jayden and his mom. We`ve heard their description. Tell us about Jayden.

MAJIA: Well, Jayden, he was just like any other normal seven-year-old boy. He had visited us and my son on several occasions. And when he was back in Missouri with us, just did the regular things that a young boy would do. He liked to play outside. He liked to play basketball.

The last time he was visiting with us was October of last year. His birthday is in September, and we had a birthday party for him at my son`s house in October. And we just -- we had a great time. I remember he was quite a little basketball player, and we spent a lot of time outside playing basketball that particular day.

GRACE: You know, he was about four-feet tall. And when I read the victim is four-feet tall, he was such a little bitty thing.

MAJIA: Well, it`s been -- it`s a difficult situation to think, you know, that someone would harm someone that small a child. And that`s been our biggest fear since 11:30 p.m. on Sunday night, that something would happen or could happen to not only to Lisa but to someone that small, seven-years-old, and somebody would take it upon themselves to harm someone like that.

GRACE: David, are you Jayden`s maternal or paternal grandfather?

MAJIA: Paternal.

GRACE: Tell me how his dad is.

MAJIA: Well, his father`s a very quiet and private person to begin with. And that`s one of the reasons why I`m here this evening.

Just he`s really upset. With a son in Texas and him in Missouri, they saw, you know, a little bit of each other. But there wasn`t that every day relationship. And I think what`s going through his mind now is, you know, what...

GRACE: ... could have been.

MAJIA: ... what could have been will not happen. And that is really a big part of what he`s going through right now.

GRACE: You know, when I found out you were going to be on the show tonight, I was thinking about my own grandmother. I remember she saw me graduate high school, college, law school. I remember when I was broke, I would bum money from her to pay the phone bill.

When you think -- I don`t know how you can be so composed talking about Jayden.

MAJIA: Well, it is very difficult. We`ve got a strong faith in our family. And we`ve been able to spend the last 48 hours together. And we have done our share of praying together and crying, and it is difficult to come forward and to speak about this. My major concern right now is for my son`s feelings and the rest of my family.

GRACE: Yes, yes. How did you learn about what had happened?

MAJIA: Well, our son gave us a call 11:30 -- as I said, 11:30 p.m. on Sunday evening. He had been notified by the local police department there in Saint Joe to call one of the detectives in Fort Worth. And he did call down. And they informed him that Jayden and Lisa were missing.

Throughout the next day, which was Monday, we were in touch through Carl with the law enforcement agencies down there. You know, they had suspected foul play from the beginning. We got a lot of our information, you know, like a lot of people do, over the television, through CNN. But we did have close contact with the local law enforcement in Fort Worth.

GRACE: I have got to ask you something. David, everyone, with us is David Majia, is Jayden`s grandfather. Also with him, family spokesperson, Carl Butcher, who`s also a relative of the family.

When you first heard they were missing, did you have a gut instinct that they were dead? I mean, this doesn`t sound like Lisa Underwood at all to just take off.

MAJIA: No. I don`t think at first, the gut instinct. I think the first feeling we had was a feeling of fear and kind of hopelessness that possibly something was wrong. But as I said before, the faith that we have, not only in our family, but the surrounding friends that we have, that there probably will be a better ending to what has happened.

GRACE: Mr. Butcher, as a relative and the family spokesperson as well, how is the rest of the family doing?

CARL BUTCHER, COUSIN OF SLAIN CHILD: Well, the advantage is there`s a large group of the family that has spent the vast majority of the two days together, and that`s a lot of support. And that`s helped. And there`s a lot of people that have dropped by to see Bradley (ph) and David and the rest of the family. And you can see their spirits rise when that happens.

GRACE: Question: This sounded so uncharacteristic of Lisa Underwood for her to just take off. I had a very bad feeling when I first heard of it. Then when we heard about her Dodge Durango partially submerged in water -- what is your hope for the outcome of this case, Mr. Butcher? I know you know by now that a suspect is in custody.

BUTCHER: Yes. You know, I`ve been involved in the criminal justice system for probably 40 years. So I know the system relatively well. And I have complete confidence in the system. And the system shall work in a case like this.

And, you know, it`s going to take time. And I talked to Jayden`s father about that, that it will be a long process, but just be patient. It shall work.

GRACE: You know, that`s a beautiful name, "Jayden." I have only heard it one other time. Was that a family name, Carl?

BUTCHER: No.

GRACE: Just beautiful. So Lisa made that up?

BUTCHER: I don`t know where they -- she made it up.

MAJIA: I can probably answer that. It was, you know -- my son`s name is Bradley Jerome (ph), but when Lisa named -- it`s Jayden Zan Underwood. It`s just, it`s one of those names that, you know, a mother comes up with and something that she felt would fit him. And every time you look at the pictures and...

GRACE: He looks like a Jayden.

MAJIA: He looks like a Jayden. And my son, when he was that age, wore glasses. And there`s a striking resemblance.

And, you know, you look at the picture, and it`s just Jayden.

GRACE: It`s precious.

Gentlemen, could you stay with us? With me is Jayden`s grandfather, David Majia. Also with us, family spokesperson and relative, Carl Butcher. And joining us when we come back is little Jayden`s first-grade teacher.

I`m sorry to report to you, a sad ending to last night`s alert. Lisa and Jayden Underwood`s bodies were found today. We`ll bring you the latest when we come back.

But very quickly, a trial tracking report on Michael Jackson. Today, the King of Pop re-emerge at jury selection. Apparently, he recovered from last week`s flu-like symptoms. They sidelined him and caused jury selection to screech to a halt.

Would-be jurors had been asked about their experiences with allegations of child molestation. One woman, who previously said she was twice accused of improper behavior with children, said she had also been a child victim. Jury selection continues tomorrow.

We will be right back after this break with more on Lisa and Jayden Underwood.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARLA HESS, AUNT OF TWO MURDER VICTIMS: I helped raise Lisa. She has lived with me off and on. She is a wonderful mother, a successful business woman. I talked with her Friday as I was en route to Dallas. I talked to her on the phone. I offered to stay with her that night, and I offered to bring food by. She told me it wasn`t necessary. She had been sick, but she was feeling better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, with us is Jayden`s grandfather, David Majia, speaking out for the first time. Also with him family cousin spokesperson, Carl Butcher. Also joining us, Jayden`s first grade teacher, Janice Freeman. Shortly, we`ll be joined by our panel.

Very quickly back to you, David, you`re Jayden`s grandfather. I know he was just at your home and you threw a birthday party for him. Tell me about that.

MAJIA: Well, it was in October. As I said before, his birthday is in September, but he came and visited for a few days in October of last year. And we were at our son`s house and had a birthday party. It was just one of those fun days where you have your grandchildren together and, you know, all of the grandchildren were together, my daughter`s children and my son`s children.

And he just fit right in. It was like this little boy just, you know, came in and spent five days with us. But it was like he was a part of our family forever. He just, you know, he played with the kids. He got along with the adults. It was like he had been there forever. It was just -- it was wonderful, truly wonderful.

GRACE: Mr. Butcher, were there any signs of conflict between Lisa Underwood and this ex-boyfriend that`s being held tonight in custody?

BUTCHER: Not to our knowledge. And you have to understand our knowledge is limited as to the relationship between Lisa and the accused individual.

GRACE: Let me go to Janice Freeman. This is Jayden`s first-grade teacher.

Hi, Janice.

JANICE FREEMAN, TEACHER OF SEVEN-YEAR-OLD MURDER VICTIM: Hello there.

GRACE: Thank you for being with us.

FREEMAN: Thank you for asking.

GRACE: Ma`am, could you tell me about little Jayden?

FREEMAN: Sure. Jayden was just one of those kids that was just very well-rounded. He was extremely caring and helpful. He had a wonderful sense of humor. He was basically one of those kids that was loved by everybody. I don`t think anyone ever looked at him and could not see just how happy, and caring, and loving he was.

GRACE: Janice, when you would get to school and see him, what was he like?

FREEMAN: Jayden had a love of math. Math was one of his favorite subjects. And first thing in the morning, we would do a daily math page. And Jayden would come bopping in the room ready to say, "I`m ready to hand that out. I`m ready to get that going. Let`s get started with the math." And so he was always coming in very happy and ready to get started on his day.

GRACE: You had to know his mother to some degree, Lisa Underwood, right?

FREEMAN: Yes, I did know his mother.

GRACE: By all accounts, she sounds like a great mother.

FREEMAN: Well, I only know about my dealings with her in coming up and discussing her son. My main contact was with her son.

GRACE: Can I ask you, before I let you go, what are your most vivid memories of Jayden?

FREEMAN: Jayden had been around adults all of his life, so he was able to carry on a conversation with an adult as well as be a typical normal kid with lots of loves and interests.

My most vivid memory is going to be how every morning when it was time for morning announcements, he was in charge of getting the remote and clicking in the channel for the announcements. And sometimes he would miss the right channel and just bust out in a fit of giggles with the rest of us, as we hoped he got to the announcements before they were actually over. And it gave us a lot of laughs in the morning. And we never knew if we were going to get to the channel for announcements on time or not. And that will be my most vivid memory of him.

GRACE: What a beautiful little boy.

Joining us now, our panel to figure out, legally and evidentiarily, what`s going on in Texas.

Joining me is a special friend and victims` rights advocate, Marc Klaas. You know Marc Klaas. Marc Klaas came to the forefront of victims` rights advocacy when his daughter, little Polly, was taken from her home and she was murdered. He has been a tireless crusader for victims.

Also with me, profiler Candace Delong. Candace is joining us out of California also. High-profile defense attorney Daniel Horowitz is with us. Defense attorney Richard Herman out of Fort Lauderdale, and former prosecutor Wendy Murphy.

Let`s kick it off.

Marc Klaas, was there anything police could have done to stop this?

MARC KLAAS, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, before I get into that, I, too, would like to offer -- my family would like to offer our condolence to all of Lisa and Jayden`s family, as well. We know how difficult this is.

Now, there are a couple of things -- I think that they`re minor, quite frankly. One wishes that the interstate Amber Alert had been activated more quickly. But that, you know, having been said, they never left the state. They were apparently found very near the location of the vehicle. And quite frankly, you know, we learned in the Peterson case that the leading cause of death among pregnant women is homicide unbelievably.

GRACE: You know, Marc, I didn`t believe that. I was on "LARRY KING" one night when somebody blurted that out. And I remained unusually quiet because, after prosecuting so many domestic homicides, I still didn`t get it.

Number-one cause of death amongst pregnant women, homicide, second, cardiovascular.

Quickly to Candace Delong before we go to break. Candace, what does it tell you that these two, a grown pregnant woman, seven months, and the boy, seven-years-old, both suffocated to death? That is not your typical mode of death for a seven-year-old boy.

CANDACE DELONG, RETIRED FBI AGENT/PROFILER: No. I`ve worked cases like this before where a parent of a child was killed in their home and then, secondarily, a young child is. And it either became clear or the confession revealed that the parent was the real target of the murder and the child interrupted it and was murdered because they were a witness to the crime.

GRACE: Well, Candace, it`s amazing to me that you there in California can hit the nail on the head regarding the theory of this case. When you say the adult is primary target, child secondary, how does that play out here?

DELONG: Well, based on what we know, that there apparently was a prior intimate relationship between Lisa and the alleged offender, taking that to its logical conclusion, possibly that he was the father of this unborn child.

And as you mentioned, as Marc mentioned, murder is the leading cause of death. By the way, that was me that said it. You and I were on "LARRY KING" together.

GRACE: It was you.

DELONG: It was me.

GRACE: And you know who I met later and had her on my show? Dr. Isabel Horon, the first one to conduct the study.

DELONG: Conduct the study, yes.

GRACE: And I interviewed her for an hour, Candace, as to how she found this out. That was not what she was looking for, Candace. It was a by-product of another study. And since that time, the study has been replicated in another jurisdiction.

I have got an all-star panel of experts and lawyers lined up to break it down, put it back together again. Also with us, the family of little Jayden and Lisa Underwood, just a travesty. I mean, can you -- you can understand two adults getting into a fight, but to imagine killing a seven- year-old boy? This police description says he`s four-feet tall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: When many of you saw this today and knew the news was bad. Recovery workers discovered the bodies of seven-year-old Jayden Underwood and his pregnant mother, Lisa, found in a shallow grave near a motor cross speedway.

Welcome back to NANCY GRACE. Thank you for being with us today. I`m sorry to give you the sad news. The entire country looked toward Texas as a huge manhunt was underway trying to find Lisa and Jayden.

Tonight, not only the family of little Jayden, but an all-star panel lined up to break it apart, put it back together for you. Let me quickly go back to our panel.

Marc Klaas, when you hear stories like this, it`s got to bring back the memory of little Polly, your daughter.

KLAAS: Well, the memory of Polly never leaves me, but very rarely is a victim humanized on TV as this little boy has been humanized this evening. We were just sitting here talking about the fact that, you know, you get a real sense of who he is, which sort of changes him from the typical illustration of a victim or portrait of a victim on TV.

He is not, nor was his mother, a piece of a pie chart or a statistic. There is something viable and vital here. And the world is -- there`s a great loss for the world when two productive citizens go down because some guy decided that he didn`t want to have to deal with it, or whatever this guy`s motivation was, for having committed this crime.

GRACE: Have you heard reports, Wendy Murphy, that the guy behind bars, who`s the suspect in this case, was a married guy and did not want to break up with his wife? I mean, reports are flying. Did you hear that, Wendy? Could that possibly be motive for murder?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I did read that, Nancy. But let`s remember where that`s coming from. Apparently, this is the statement of Barbee himself to police, that that`s why they had a fight. That Lisa was pressuring him to leave his wife and that he was the father of the unborn child.

Now, look at -- I`m not buying into anything this guy is saying. Among other things, he said it was a suffocation death after she kicked him in the knee, already soft-peddling what he apparently did, because you know, Nancy, there was such blood found in Lisa`s home, police knew basically, as soon as they got to the crime scene, that these two people were dead. And he thinks we`ll buy that it was suffocation?

GRACE: Wendy, hold that thought. Daniel Horowitz, I`ll be right back to you and Richard Herman. Quick break.

We here at NANCY GRACE want desperately to find missing people, solve unsolved homicides. Take a look at Chuck Mauk, riding home on his bike, Warner Robins, Georgia, been missing over ten years. Please help us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

A former Virginia high school valedictorian is charged with conspiracy, supporting terrorists, and discussing a possible plot to assassinate President Bush. Twenty-three-year-old Ahmed Abu Ali appeared in U.S. District Court earlier today. He had been detained in Saudi Arabia for more than a year and a half.

For the first time since the off-season allegations of steroid use, Barry Bonds stepped up to the mike. But he refused to answer questions about the scandal. He told reports that Spring Training meant hard work and nothing else is responsible for his success at the plate.

A Florida judge has ordered the feeding tube keeping Terri Schiavo alive to stay in place, at least until tomorrow. The appeals court had reaffirmed the right of Schiavo`s husband to remove the tube. Her parents are pleading with law makers and Governor Jeb Bush to intervene once again.

That is the news for now. I`m Thomas Roberts. We take you back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GENE JONES, FORT WORTH POLICE DEPT.: We are here to confirm that a makeshift grave has been located in southwest Denton County. We were led to this location by Stephen Barbee after he provided a confession to our investigators.

With the assistance of the Tarrant County medical examiner`s office, we`ve begun processing the gravesite. Although, at this time, identification cannot be confirmed, we know that the grave contains the bodies of a female and a male consistent with the ages of Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That announcement today stunned many of us who were hoping for the best regarding the search for Lisa Underwood and her son, seven-year- old Jayden.

Welcome back. Thank you for being with us.

Let`s go straight out to our panel.

Daniel Horowitz, is this a death-penalty case?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, this is a number-one death penalty case. You`ve got a multiple murder. In Texas, you`ve got the murder of somebody under six being a death qualifying offense. And a fetus is under six years old. And you have potentially a kidnap which then also has a murder to cover it up, so it is a death-death-death case.

But, Nancy, let me warn you that this young man in custody. There are no videotapes as to what he`s saying in Tarrant County. They don`t audio record these confessions. In Texas, as you know from the Temple (ph) case, you get a little signed statement summarizing hours upon hours of testimony.

We have not heard both sides. Let`s not jump to conclusions. We don`t really know what happened. We don`t even know if he`s really guilty. We just know what the police want us to believe.

(CROSSTALK)

MURPHY: He showed them where the bodies are.

GRACE: Daniel, of course, we don`t know if he`s guilty yet. But even if his statement is ruled out, as I hear Wendy Murphy saying, even if his confession is ruled out, Wendy, they led him -- he led police to the bodies.

MURPHY: Exactly. He took them to the bodies. Come on, Daniel. There you were on a roll. And we were actually in agreement for once in our lives. Come on.

You were saying it`s a death penalty case, and he`s in trouble, and you were doing all the right things. All of sudden, we don`t know the evidence?

HOROWITZ: Wendy, he took them to the bodies, Wendy, but that doesn`t mean he killed them. He might have known something. It doesn`t mean he`s a killer. We`re hearing one side of the equation.

(CROSSTALK)

HOROWITZ: Get his attorney on your show.

GRACE: Guys, hold on. We haven`t even struck a jury yet. The guy hasn`t even been indicted yet.

Very quickly to Richard Herman. Richard, what`s you best defense strategy here? Be careful if you say temporary insanity, but I`m prepared.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I -- first, my condolences go to the Underwood family for this devastating event. And I don`t know that I could defend this guy, to be honest with you. But I must say that Wendy`s already convicted him, ready to kill him tomorrow after 48 hours. He hasn`t had an attorney. We don`t know what his defense is going to be.

GRACE: My question to you was, what would your defense be?

HERMAN: Based on the speculation and the stories we have heard today, heat of passion, she threatened him, he snapped, his mind just snapped, he punched her, he broke her nose, blood on the floor, the child came in. Again, he was in a snap condition. This is not premeditated. There`s no malice or forethought here. The truck ran out of gas, short grave. I don`t know. I don`t see premeditation.

MURPHY: Are you serious? There was so much blood they thought that they were in a war there. And you think it was a bloody nose? He said she kicked him in the shins so he killed her and the kid, not to mention his own unborn child?

HERMAN: Where`s the murder weapon? Where`s the premeditation?

MURPHY: You`re fired. You are fired.

HERMAN: If he premeditated this, do you think he would have been so stupid as to leave the blood all over, to leave the truck, run out of gas, and be caught by the police that night walking on the highway?

GRACE: Richard, I appreciate that long soliloquy, but I think you`re headed toward a voluntary or involuntarily manslaughter based on provocation or passion.

Let me quickly go to Marc Klaas, victims` rights advocate.

Marc, I get the anger in the moment, and you hit someone, but where do you go from punching a woman in the face to make her nose bleed to strangling her?

KLAAS: No sane and rational person does anything like that. I think Wendy hit the nail on the head. This guy didn`t want to admit that -- well, he didn`t want to pay child support, basically, is probably what it came down to. We can`t believe anything that anybody would say that would engage in the kind of activity he engaged in. It`s just unbelievable.

GRACE: Another question to you, Candace Delong, as Marc Klaas just pointed out, the specter of child support loomed. We heard all of this before in speculation leading up to the Scott Peterson trial, why someone would do this.

But here, Candace, you have got the other specter of not just killing a pregnant lady when the fetus is viable, but killing a boy, a 7-year-old boy. I`m not getting the psychology of that. To avoid child support, you have to kill seven-year-old boy, too?

DELONG: No, I don`t think so. OK, first of all, we don`t know that he simply didn`t want to pay child support. We don`t know -- I agree with Wendy. We can`t necessarily believe what we`re hearing. You know, he says he strangled them, but there`s all this blood. For all we know, he wanted her to marry him and she said, "No."

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

HERMAN:: No, he broke up with her.

DELONG: Oh, OK.

GRACE: Wait, who is that speaking?

HERMAN: Richard Herman.

GRACE: Let me go to you, Richard Herman. Thank you.

It`s my understanding, as well as yours, that he was married, right, Richard?

HERMAN: It`s my understanding that they were dating, that he impregnated her sometime in July. And at sometime in September, he broke off the relationship with her. There was some sort of an affair, and that he married a woman in September, October `04. He was the one that ended the relationship.

GRACE: Candace, how does that affect your...

DELONG: OK. Maybe he wanted her to have an abortion. Maybe he wanted her to move. We don`t know all the details yet.

But in regards to your question, Nancy, about, you know -- you can understand the problem snapping, if you will, in a fight with the mom, and the about-to-be mom again, but why the little boy? I think he probably was not meant to be there. And he, I`m guessing, based on cases I have worked, he entered the room and he became a witness to a homicide.

And in the possibly -- you know, people committing homicide, there`s no handbook. It`s certainly not something that even, I think, premeditated you do cool, calm and collectedly and then turn around and see a seven- year-old boy standing there who can identify you, I can see where in cases like this.

GRACE: I don`t know if it was cool, calm and collected, Candace, because we know there was a great degree of blood...

DELONG: I don`t think it was.

GRACE: ... there in the home.

DELONG: Right.

GRACE: Things obviously didn`t go the way he planned when he got there. Then he suddenly has a seven-year-old witness.

DELONG: Right.

GRACE: That`s my thinking. I think...

DELONG: No, that`s whey meant. Even if a crime is premeditated and the killer is cool, calm and collected, it`s still not going to be easy to do. They`re not going to be thinking straight. And so, if you can imagine being in the heat of passion and a seven-year-old that can I.D. you walks in the room, that seven-year-old is going to get killed.

GRACE: Marc Klaas, do you think this will be a death-penalty case?

KLAAS: I would hope certainly hope it`s a death penalty case. I don`t see any reason in the world why this guy should continue to exist on Earth.

GRACE: We`re going to take a quick break. We have got all sides represented tonight. Stunning news today. We all there was, or hoped, Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden, would come home safely. That did not happen.

Very quickly, as we go to break, another trial tracker report. This time, Sarah Johnson, the 16-year-old Idaho girl on trial for the murders of both her parents, mom and dad, in court today. The prosecution prepares to rest their case. The defense, now gearing up to offer their version. They`ve got an eye on the courtroom, and we will bring you the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, high-profile examples of a disturbing trend made public in the Peterson trial. Number-one cause of death amongst pregnant women, homicide.

Today, Stephen Barbee apparently follows in that trend, allegedly giving a confession to the murders of his pregnant former girlfriend, Lisa, and her son, seven-year-old Jayden.

Welcome back, everyone. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

I`ve got in my hand an arrest warrant. And this is based, as many of you already know, upon sworn testimony by a police officer, what he examined, what he saw, what the defendant, Stephen Barbee, said to him.

Richard Herman, will this affidavit come into court?

HERMAN: This affidavit will probably come into court. It`s going to be incriminating evidence against him.

And he`s going to need an attorney, Nancy. We don`t have an attorney representing him yet. We don`t know how this confession, this alleged confession, came about. We don`t know if they beat the crap out of them there. We don`t know anything about this. If it was coerced out of him, it`s not valid.

GRACE: Richard, if we don`t know anything, then why are you suggesting that he had the crap beaten out of him? Why would you even say that?

HERMAN: Well, because everything is speculation. You have a beautiful confession. I`m saying, I don`t think it`s so beautiful.

GRACE: You know what? I have got an idea.

HERMAN: I don`t think they sent him a cup of coffee.

GRACE: Richard, hold that thought. I`ve got an idea.

Let me ask my producer, Elizabeth, if you could pull up that shot, the still of Stephen Barbee. This apparently was taken after his arrest.

Wendy, I don`t see any bruises or cuts.

MURPHY: No.

GRACE: Apparently he wasn`t beaten into a confession.

MURPHY: Another one of those really hard kicks in the shin, I guess. You know, Nancy, I just want to make an argument in favor of premeditation. Everyone thinks he snapped. We are so quick to forgive these guys that beat the hell out of their wives and kill them. "Oh, the poor guy snapped. She was pressuring him to, you know, leave his wife." Please.

The evidence the police have gathered from his friend is that he got a ride to Lisa`s house by his friend and he said to his friend, "I just can`t do it." And let`s be very clear that that does have more than one interpretation, but there`s no doubt this guy had a weapon. Because you don`t bleed to death from suffocation.

And the news reports have told us that something, quote, "an item of interest," was recovered from Barbee`s home. That`s code for a knife or a gun. And you don`t go visiting your girlfriend just to be nice to her with a knife or gun in your pocket.

GRACE: Let me go to Marc Klaas.

Marc Klaas, I was reading this arrest warrant, this sworn affidavit. It says, "Barbee said he placed his hand over the child`s mouth and nose and suffocated him to death. The child had entered the room screaming."

I mean, when a jury hears that, if this comes into evidence...

KLAAS: Well, listen. I don`t even -- I`m on Wendy`s side on this thing. I`m sorry. I believe that this guy went in and he had a plan. He had an idea of what he wanted to do. The little boy probably walked in on something he shouldn`t have seen and became a secondary victim to this whole thing.

My lord, this guy -- I have snapped. Everything has snapped, Nancy. You end up sleeping on the couch when you snap. Only if you have criminal intent in your mind are you going to commit something like this. This is so far on the dark side that it`s inexcusable on any level of society, any level whatsoever.

GRACE: Do I still have with me, Elizabeth, David Majia, Jayden`s grandfather?

MAJIA: Yes, yes.

GRACE: Sir, I know all of us lawyers are talking about this evidence and legal aspects of the case as if you`re not in the room. I know you`re in the room. I know you`re hearing this.

When you hear sworn testimony about placing his hand over Jayden`s mouth and nose and suffocating the little thing to death, I don`t know how you contain yourself. This is your blood.

MAJIA: Well, it`s very, very difficult. You know, there`s a sworn statement. He has admitted to this. Yes, I`m many, many miles away in Missouri and he is in Texas. There`s a part of me that says, you know, if he were here...

GRACE: You`d kill him.

MAJIA: Well, I don`t know that I`d do that, but, you know, there`s a part of every one of us inside that just -- you know, there`s a little bit of hate somewhere. And, you know, when I listen to you talk about this, listen to the other panel, you know, there`s pros and cons. You know, I`m concerned that, with all this going on -- you know, if he`s guilty, he`s guilty. It`s not my place to say he`s guilty but...

GRACE: True.

MAJIA: If he has admitted to this, yes, it`s devastating for me to hear you say that he put his hands over my grandson`s nose and mouth and suffocated a seven-year-old to death. That`s devastating. You know, my gut right now is churning. And, you know, I don`t want to get sick on national TV. But, you know, that`s just the way I feel right now.

GRACE: You know, just reading this, and I know you`ll probably be present if there is a jury trial, just reading it, and that`s the tip of the iceberg. I`m going to quickly go to Daniel Horowitz.

Daniel, there`s another issue for the defense to deal with. His name is Ron Dodd, a friend that this guy, Barbee, asked basically to help him along the way unwittingly, give him a ride, help him get gas, and Ron Dodd has been totally cooperative in helping the police. He also gave a video statement. So even if the main evidence that we know of tonight, the confession, is suppressed by some slick defense lawyer, you still got to contend with Ron Dodd, a defense attorney`s worst nightmare.

HOROWITZ: Nancy, I agree. But here`s the thing. Here`s how you save this man`s life.

You`ve established, if it`s true, that the killing of Lisa was a crime of passion and that when young Jayden came in, that might have been premeditated. Maybe he suffocated him on purpose. But that`s a single murder of a child above age six. What we have to do is separate the horror of what the family is feeling with our need for revenge. Revenge does not bring them back.

GRACE: You know what? You said almost the exact same thing when I argued with you about the Scott Peterson case why that should not be a death-penalty case.

Wendy Murphy, he is right. In Texas, the cut off is child under age six alone to qualify for a D.P., death penalty. But here there are two dead bodies. In California, it would have been three dead bodies with the unborn fetus.

MURPHY: That`s right. Look, Texas is not shy about charging people with death-penalty cases and executing them. I think they are number one in the nation, and they have been that way for a long time. You can`t get away with this stuff in Texas.

And look, Daniel is right. Everyone is right. Of course, he`s entitled to a trial. I am not his jury. I am not the judge. I`m allowed to judge him. I think he`s guilty.

And I don`t buy most of his confession. I think he`s an evil, horrible person who did something just so ghastly Nancy is half crying through this show. Look, if anyone should die -- and I`m against the death penalty -- but if anyone should die, it should be someone like this.

And if you can name a reason for me why someone who is guilty of this crime shouldn`t die, Daniel, do share it with us.

HOROWITZ: I`ll tell you why, Wendy. Because he has admitted to it. You know, all of these people who don`t admit to it -- Scott Peterson...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK. That`s enough. Thanks, Daniel. In that`s the best you can say is this guy admitted to what many would consider triple murder -- oh, I see Daniel`s still talking. Hold on, Daniel. We`re going to break. We`re going to break.

We`ll be right back. Our all-star panel lined up along with relatives in this case, relatives of the deceased.

As you know, we hear at NANCY GRACE desperately want to find missing people to help solve unsolved homicides. Tonight, take a look at this little boy, Chuck Mauk. This is especially dear to my heart. It`s near my hometown. Chuck was riding home on his bike in Warner Robins, Georgia, stopped to talk to a guy in a car, and as he got back on his bike, the driver fatally shot the boy dead near a 7-11, 1987. He was just 13 years old.

If you have any information about this boy, Chuck Mauk`s murder, please call the Carole Sund/Carrington Foundation, 1-888-813-8389. There is a reward connected with Chuck Mauk`s death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: This is a shot of Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden. Their bodies were found today in a shallow grave after a massive Texas manhunt. The 34-year-old and 7-year-old, apparently, were suffocated to death by an ex-boyfriend. That`s what we hear tonight. I`m basing that on what I`m learning from this arrest warrant, sworn affidavit against the defendant in this case, Stephen Barbee.

Very quickly, I want to go to Jayden`s grandfather one last time, David Majia.

Sir, final thoughts?

MAJIA: Well, it`s been a horrible 48 hours for a lot of people. And I would like to thank the Fort Worth law enforcement agencies for their timely work in this horrible event.

And also I want to send my condolences -- we have talked to Lisa`s mother on several occasions over the last couple of days. And I send our condolences from our family -- and that you are in our prayers and that you keep our family in your prayers.

But, you know, most of all, you know, Stephen Barbee needs to be in our prayers, too. It`s a difficult thing to say that but, you know, things need to be like that for us to get on to the next step.

GRACE: Thank you, sir.

Marc Klaas, final thoughts?

KLAAS: ... he had just put the whole thing in a great picture frame. The vast majority of people are like him. They are willing to forgive. They want to lead law-abiding lives. They wouldn`t hurt anybody. They would do anything to help someone. And then you have some creature like Barbee who breaks into somebody`s family and destroys lives with a ripple effect that will probably go on for years now.

GRACE: Marc, when you hear about cases like this, it`s got to remind you of Polly`s death and disappearance.

KLAAS: Well, it always does. And I`ve got to tell you -- you know, let`s hand kudos to the man who got the interrogation, or the man who conducted the interrogation and got this confession because, quite frankly, that`s what`s going to ultimately bring peace to this family, knowing that she`s not out there and that Jayden`s not out there suffering anymore.

GRACE: I want to thank all of my guests, Marc Klaas, Candace Delong, Daniel Horowitz, Richard Herman, Wendy Murphy and, of course, the family of Jayden, David Majia and Carl Butcher.

I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight.

Tomorrow on Court TV, I`ll bring you live coverage of the Sarah Johnson trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, and closing arguments. Thanks for being with us and inviting us into your homes.

Coming up, the latest headlines from around the world. I`ll see you here tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END


Aired February 22, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Last night, we joined Texas police to beg for your help locating a beautiful Texas mom, seven-months pregnant with her second child.
Tonight, an unhappy ending: Lisa Underwood and her son, seven-year- old Jayden Underwood, found murdered, their bodies hastily buried in a shallow grave near a motor speedway.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

The bodies of Lisa Underwood, seven-months pregnant, and seven-year- old son, Jayden, discovered today in a makeshift grave 40 miles north of Dallas. Underwood`s ex-boyfriend being held tonight on a $2 million bond.

Thirty-seven-year-old Stephen Barbee as of tonight is behind bars in Fort Worth, Texas, charged with two counts of capital murder. Barbee allegedly confessed to police in Tyler, Texas, that he suffocated both Lisa Underwood and the little boy, Jayden. Authorities are still unsure if Barbee was the father of Underwood`s unborn baby.

Underwood went missing Saturday, just hours before a baby shower in her honor. First disturbing sign: A pool of blood found in her home and recognizable items out of place. Then, Underwood`s Dodge Durango found partially submerged in a creek yesterday close to where the bodies were ultimately found. Here`s the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GENE JONES, FORT WORTH POLICE DEPT.: We are here to confirm that a makeshift grave has been located in southwest Denton County. We were led to this location by Stephen Barbee after he provided a confession to our investigators.

With the assistance of the Tarrant County medical examiner`s office, we`ve begun processing the grave site. Although, at this time, identification cannot be confirmed, we know that the grave contains the bodies of a female and a male consistent with the ages of Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are now joined by David Majia, Jayden`s grandfather.

Along with him, family cousin and family spokesperson, Carl Butcher.

Shortly, we`ll be joined by Jayden`s first-grade teacher -- it hurts me just to even say "first-grade teacher" -- Janice Freeman will be with us.

Right now, let`s go to Jayden`s grandfather. He is speaking out for the first time on the air waves tonight.

Mr. Majia, thank you so much for being with us.

DAVID MEJIA, GRANDFATHER OF SLAIN CHILD: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Mr. Majia, as a crime victim myself, I get a sense of a little bit of what you`re going through tonight. I want to tell you that our whole staff is so sorry for what your family is going through.

MAJIA: We thank you very much for that.

GRACE: Mr. Majia, we`ve seen photos of Jayden and his mom. We`ve heard their description. Tell us about Jayden.

MAJIA: Well, Jayden, he was just like any other normal seven-year-old boy. He had visited us and my son on several occasions. And when he was back in Missouri with us, just did the regular things that a young boy would do. He liked to play outside. He liked to play basketball.

The last time he was visiting with us was October of last year. His birthday is in September, and we had a birthday party for him at my son`s house in October. And we just -- we had a great time. I remember he was quite a little basketball player, and we spent a lot of time outside playing basketball that particular day.

GRACE: You know, he was about four-feet tall. And when I read the victim is four-feet tall, he was such a little bitty thing.

MAJIA: Well, it`s been -- it`s a difficult situation to think, you know, that someone would harm someone that small a child. And that`s been our biggest fear since 11:30 p.m. on Sunday night, that something would happen or could happen to not only to Lisa but to someone that small, seven-years-old, and somebody would take it upon themselves to harm someone like that.

GRACE: David, are you Jayden`s maternal or paternal grandfather?

MAJIA: Paternal.

GRACE: Tell me how his dad is.

MAJIA: Well, his father`s a very quiet and private person to begin with. And that`s one of the reasons why I`m here this evening.

Just he`s really upset. With a son in Texas and him in Missouri, they saw, you know, a little bit of each other. But there wasn`t that every day relationship. And I think what`s going through his mind now is, you know, what...

GRACE: ... could have been.

MAJIA: ... what could have been will not happen. And that is really a big part of what he`s going through right now.

GRACE: You know, when I found out you were going to be on the show tonight, I was thinking about my own grandmother. I remember she saw me graduate high school, college, law school. I remember when I was broke, I would bum money from her to pay the phone bill.

When you think -- I don`t know how you can be so composed talking about Jayden.

MAJIA: Well, it is very difficult. We`ve got a strong faith in our family. And we`ve been able to spend the last 48 hours together. And we have done our share of praying together and crying, and it is difficult to come forward and to speak about this. My major concern right now is for my son`s feelings and the rest of my family.

GRACE: Yes, yes. How did you learn about what had happened?

MAJIA: Well, our son gave us a call 11:30 -- as I said, 11:30 p.m. on Sunday evening. He had been notified by the local police department there in Saint Joe to call one of the detectives in Fort Worth. And he did call down. And they informed him that Jayden and Lisa were missing.

Throughout the next day, which was Monday, we were in touch through Carl with the law enforcement agencies down there. You know, they had suspected foul play from the beginning. We got a lot of our information, you know, like a lot of people do, over the television, through CNN. But we did have close contact with the local law enforcement in Fort Worth.

GRACE: I have got to ask you something. David, everyone, with us is David Majia, is Jayden`s grandfather. Also with him, family spokesperson, Carl Butcher, who`s also a relative of the family.

When you first heard they were missing, did you have a gut instinct that they were dead? I mean, this doesn`t sound like Lisa Underwood at all to just take off.

MAJIA: No. I don`t think at first, the gut instinct. I think the first feeling we had was a feeling of fear and kind of hopelessness that possibly something was wrong. But as I said before, the faith that we have, not only in our family, but the surrounding friends that we have, that there probably will be a better ending to what has happened.

GRACE: Mr. Butcher, as a relative and the family spokesperson as well, how is the rest of the family doing?

CARL BUTCHER, COUSIN OF SLAIN CHILD: Well, the advantage is there`s a large group of the family that has spent the vast majority of the two days together, and that`s a lot of support. And that`s helped. And there`s a lot of people that have dropped by to see Bradley (ph) and David and the rest of the family. And you can see their spirits rise when that happens.

GRACE: Question: This sounded so uncharacteristic of Lisa Underwood for her to just take off. I had a very bad feeling when I first heard of it. Then when we heard about her Dodge Durango partially submerged in water -- what is your hope for the outcome of this case, Mr. Butcher? I know you know by now that a suspect is in custody.

BUTCHER: Yes. You know, I`ve been involved in the criminal justice system for probably 40 years. So I know the system relatively well. And I have complete confidence in the system. And the system shall work in a case like this.

And, you know, it`s going to take time. And I talked to Jayden`s father about that, that it will be a long process, but just be patient. It shall work.

GRACE: You know, that`s a beautiful name, "Jayden." I have only heard it one other time. Was that a family name, Carl?

BUTCHER: No.

GRACE: Just beautiful. So Lisa made that up?

BUTCHER: I don`t know where they -- she made it up.

MAJIA: I can probably answer that. It was, you know -- my son`s name is Bradley Jerome (ph), but when Lisa named -- it`s Jayden Zan Underwood. It`s just, it`s one of those names that, you know, a mother comes up with and something that she felt would fit him. And every time you look at the pictures and...

GRACE: He looks like a Jayden.

MAJIA: He looks like a Jayden. And my son, when he was that age, wore glasses. And there`s a striking resemblance.

And, you know, you look at the picture, and it`s just Jayden.

GRACE: It`s precious.

Gentlemen, could you stay with us? With me is Jayden`s grandfather, David Majia. Also with us, family spokesperson and relative, Carl Butcher. And joining us when we come back is little Jayden`s first-grade teacher.

I`m sorry to report to you, a sad ending to last night`s alert. Lisa and Jayden Underwood`s bodies were found today. We`ll bring you the latest when we come back.

But very quickly, a trial tracking report on Michael Jackson. Today, the King of Pop re-emerge at jury selection. Apparently, he recovered from last week`s flu-like symptoms. They sidelined him and caused jury selection to screech to a halt.

Would-be jurors had been asked about their experiences with allegations of child molestation. One woman, who previously said she was twice accused of improper behavior with children, said she had also been a child victim. Jury selection continues tomorrow.

We will be right back after this break with more on Lisa and Jayden Underwood.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARLA HESS, AUNT OF TWO MURDER VICTIMS: I helped raise Lisa. She has lived with me off and on. She is a wonderful mother, a successful business woman. I talked with her Friday as I was en route to Dallas. I talked to her on the phone. I offered to stay with her that night, and I offered to bring food by. She told me it wasn`t necessary. She had been sick, but she was feeling better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, with us is Jayden`s grandfather, David Majia, speaking out for the first time. Also with him family cousin spokesperson, Carl Butcher. Also joining us, Jayden`s first grade teacher, Janice Freeman. Shortly, we`ll be joined by our panel.

Very quickly back to you, David, you`re Jayden`s grandfather. I know he was just at your home and you threw a birthday party for him. Tell me about that.

MAJIA: Well, it was in October. As I said before, his birthday is in September, but he came and visited for a few days in October of last year. And we were at our son`s house and had a birthday party. It was just one of those fun days where you have your grandchildren together and, you know, all of the grandchildren were together, my daughter`s children and my son`s children.

And he just fit right in. It was like this little boy just, you know, came in and spent five days with us. But it was like he was a part of our family forever. He just, you know, he played with the kids. He got along with the adults. It was like he had been there forever. It was just -- it was wonderful, truly wonderful.

GRACE: Mr. Butcher, were there any signs of conflict between Lisa Underwood and this ex-boyfriend that`s being held tonight in custody?

BUTCHER: Not to our knowledge. And you have to understand our knowledge is limited as to the relationship between Lisa and the accused individual.

GRACE: Let me go to Janice Freeman. This is Jayden`s first-grade teacher.

Hi, Janice.

JANICE FREEMAN, TEACHER OF SEVEN-YEAR-OLD MURDER VICTIM: Hello there.

GRACE: Thank you for being with us.

FREEMAN: Thank you for asking.

GRACE: Ma`am, could you tell me about little Jayden?

FREEMAN: Sure. Jayden was just one of those kids that was just very well-rounded. He was extremely caring and helpful. He had a wonderful sense of humor. He was basically one of those kids that was loved by everybody. I don`t think anyone ever looked at him and could not see just how happy, and caring, and loving he was.

GRACE: Janice, when you would get to school and see him, what was he like?

FREEMAN: Jayden had a love of math. Math was one of his favorite subjects. And first thing in the morning, we would do a daily math page. And Jayden would come bopping in the room ready to say, "I`m ready to hand that out. I`m ready to get that going. Let`s get started with the math." And so he was always coming in very happy and ready to get started on his day.

GRACE: You had to know his mother to some degree, Lisa Underwood, right?

FREEMAN: Yes, I did know his mother.

GRACE: By all accounts, she sounds like a great mother.

FREEMAN: Well, I only know about my dealings with her in coming up and discussing her son. My main contact was with her son.

GRACE: Can I ask you, before I let you go, what are your most vivid memories of Jayden?

FREEMAN: Jayden had been around adults all of his life, so he was able to carry on a conversation with an adult as well as be a typical normal kid with lots of loves and interests.

My most vivid memory is going to be how every morning when it was time for morning announcements, he was in charge of getting the remote and clicking in the channel for the announcements. And sometimes he would miss the right channel and just bust out in a fit of giggles with the rest of us, as we hoped he got to the announcements before they were actually over. And it gave us a lot of laughs in the morning. And we never knew if we were going to get to the channel for announcements on time or not. And that will be my most vivid memory of him.

GRACE: What a beautiful little boy.

Joining us now, our panel to figure out, legally and evidentiarily, what`s going on in Texas.

Joining me is a special friend and victims` rights advocate, Marc Klaas. You know Marc Klaas. Marc Klaas came to the forefront of victims` rights advocacy when his daughter, little Polly, was taken from her home and she was murdered. He has been a tireless crusader for victims.

Also with me, profiler Candace Delong. Candace is joining us out of California also. High-profile defense attorney Daniel Horowitz is with us. Defense attorney Richard Herman out of Fort Lauderdale, and former prosecutor Wendy Murphy.

Let`s kick it off.

Marc Klaas, was there anything police could have done to stop this?

MARC KLAAS, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, before I get into that, I, too, would like to offer -- my family would like to offer our condolence to all of Lisa and Jayden`s family, as well. We know how difficult this is.

Now, there are a couple of things -- I think that they`re minor, quite frankly. One wishes that the interstate Amber Alert had been activated more quickly. But that, you know, having been said, they never left the state. They were apparently found very near the location of the vehicle. And quite frankly, you know, we learned in the Peterson case that the leading cause of death among pregnant women is homicide unbelievably.

GRACE: You know, Marc, I didn`t believe that. I was on "LARRY KING" one night when somebody blurted that out. And I remained unusually quiet because, after prosecuting so many domestic homicides, I still didn`t get it.

Number-one cause of death amongst pregnant women, homicide, second, cardiovascular.

Quickly to Candace Delong before we go to break. Candace, what does it tell you that these two, a grown pregnant woman, seven months, and the boy, seven-years-old, both suffocated to death? That is not your typical mode of death for a seven-year-old boy.

CANDACE DELONG, RETIRED FBI AGENT/PROFILER: No. I`ve worked cases like this before where a parent of a child was killed in their home and then, secondarily, a young child is. And it either became clear or the confession revealed that the parent was the real target of the murder and the child interrupted it and was murdered because they were a witness to the crime.

GRACE: Well, Candace, it`s amazing to me that you there in California can hit the nail on the head regarding the theory of this case. When you say the adult is primary target, child secondary, how does that play out here?

DELONG: Well, based on what we know, that there apparently was a prior intimate relationship between Lisa and the alleged offender, taking that to its logical conclusion, possibly that he was the father of this unborn child.

And as you mentioned, as Marc mentioned, murder is the leading cause of death. By the way, that was me that said it. You and I were on "LARRY KING" together.

GRACE: It was you.

DELONG: It was me.

GRACE: And you know who I met later and had her on my show? Dr. Isabel Horon, the first one to conduct the study.

DELONG: Conduct the study, yes.

GRACE: And I interviewed her for an hour, Candace, as to how she found this out. That was not what she was looking for, Candace. It was a by-product of another study. And since that time, the study has been replicated in another jurisdiction.

I have got an all-star panel of experts and lawyers lined up to break it down, put it back together again. Also with us, the family of little Jayden and Lisa Underwood, just a travesty. I mean, can you -- you can understand two adults getting into a fight, but to imagine killing a seven- year-old boy? This police description says he`s four-feet tall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: When many of you saw this today and knew the news was bad. Recovery workers discovered the bodies of seven-year-old Jayden Underwood and his pregnant mother, Lisa, found in a shallow grave near a motor cross speedway.

Welcome back to NANCY GRACE. Thank you for being with us today. I`m sorry to give you the sad news. The entire country looked toward Texas as a huge manhunt was underway trying to find Lisa and Jayden.

Tonight, not only the family of little Jayden, but an all-star panel lined up to break it apart, put it back together for you. Let me quickly go back to our panel.

Marc Klaas, when you hear stories like this, it`s got to bring back the memory of little Polly, your daughter.

KLAAS: Well, the memory of Polly never leaves me, but very rarely is a victim humanized on TV as this little boy has been humanized this evening. We were just sitting here talking about the fact that, you know, you get a real sense of who he is, which sort of changes him from the typical illustration of a victim or portrait of a victim on TV.

He is not, nor was his mother, a piece of a pie chart or a statistic. There is something viable and vital here. And the world is -- there`s a great loss for the world when two productive citizens go down because some guy decided that he didn`t want to have to deal with it, or whatever this guy`s motivation was, for having committed this crime.

GRACE: Have you heard reports, Wendy Murphy, that the guy behind bars, who`s the suspect in this case, was a married guy and did not want to break up with his wife? I mean, reports are flying. Did you hear that, Wendy? Could that possibly be motive for murder?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I did read that, Nancy. But let`s remember where that`s coming from. Apparently, this is the statement of Barbee himself to police, that that`s why they had a fight. That Lisa was pressuring him to leave his wife and that he was the father of the unborn child.

Now, look at -- I`m not buying into anything this guy is saying. Among other things, he said it was a suffocation death after she kicked him in the knee, already soft-peddling what he apparently did, because you know, Nancy, there was such blood found in Lisa`s home, police knew basically, as soon as they got to the crime scene, that these two people were dead. And he thinks we`ll buy that it was suffocation?

GRACE: Wendy, hold that thought. Daniel Horowitz, I`ll be right back to you and Richard Herman. Quick break.

We here at NANCY GRACE want desperately to find missing people, solve unsolved homicides. Take a look at Chuck Mauk, riding home on his bike, Warner Robins, Georgia, been missing over ten years. Please help us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

A former Virginia high school valedictorian is charged with conspiracy, supporting terrorists, and discussing a possible plot to assassinate President Bush. Twenty-three-year-old Ahmed Abu Ali appeared in U.S. District Court earlier today. He had been detained in Saudi Arabia for more than a year and a half.

For the first time since the off-season allegations of steroid use, Barry Bonds stepped up to the mike. But he refused to answer questions about the scandal. He told reports that Spring Training meant hard work and nothing else is responsible for his success at the plate.

A Florida judge has ordered the feeding tube keeping Terri Schiavo alive to stay in place, at least until tomorrow. The appeals court had reaffirmed the right of Schiavo`s husband to remove the tube. Her parents are pleading with law makers and Governor Jeb Bush to intervene once again.

That is the news for now. I`m Thomas Roberts. We take you back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GENE JONES, FORT WORTH POLICE DEPT.: We are here to confirm that a makeshift grave has been located in southwest Denton County. We were led to this location by Stephen Barbee after he provided a confession to our investigators.

With the assistance of the Tarrant County medical examiner`s office, we`ve begun processing the gravesite. Although, at this time, identification cannot be confirmed, we know that the grave contains the bodies of a female and a male consistent with the ages of Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That announcement today stunned many of us who were hoping for the best regarding the search for Lisa Underwood and her son, seven-year- old Jayden.

Welcome back. Thank you for being with us.

Let`s go straight out to our panel.

Daniel Horowitz, is this a death-penalty case?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, this is a number-one death penalty case. You`ve got a multiple murder. In Texas, you`ve got the murder of somebody under six being a death qualifying offense. And a fetus is under six years old. And you have potentially a kidnap which then also has a murder to cover it up, so it is a death-death-death case.

But, Nancy, let me warn you that this young man in custody. There are no videotapes as to what he`s saying in Tarrant County. They don`t audio record these confessions. In Texas, as you know from the Temple (ph) case, you get a little signed statement summarizing hours upon hours of testimony.

We have not heard both sides. Let`s not jump to conclusions. We don`t really know what happened. We don`t even know if he`s really guilty. We just know what the police want us to believe.

(CROSSTALK)

MURPHY: He showed them where the bodies are.

GRACE: Daniel, of course, we don`t know if he`s guilty yet. But even if his statement is ruled out, as I hear Wendy Murphy saying, even if his confession is ruled out, Wendy, they led him -- he led police to the bodies.

MURPHY: Exactly. He took them to the bodies. Come on, Daniel. There you were on a roll. And we were actually in agreement for once in our lives. Come on.

You were saying it`s a death penalty case, and he`s in trouble, and you were doing all the right things. All of sudden, we don`t know the evidence?

HOROWITZ: Wendy, he took them to the bodies, Wendy, but that doesn`t mean he killed them. He might have known something. It doesn`t mean he`s a killer. We`re hearing one side of the equation.

(CROSSTALK)

HOROWITZ: Get his attorney on your show.

GRACE: Guys, hold on. We haven`t even struck a jury yet. The guy hasn`t even been indicted yet.

Very quickly to Richard Herman. Richard, what`s you best defense strategy here? Be careful if you say temporary insanity, but I`m prepared.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I -- first, my condolences go to the Underwood family for this devastating event. And I don`t know that I could defend this guy, to be honest with you. But I must say that Wendy`s already convicted him, ready to kill him tomorrow after 48 hours. He hasn`t had an attorney. We don`t know what his defense is going to be.

GRACE: My question to you was, what would your defense be?

HERMAN: Based on the speculation and the stories we have heard today, heat of passion, she threatened him, he snapped, his mind just snapped, he punched her, he broke her nose, blood on the floor, the child came in. Again, he was in a snap condition. This is not premeditated. There`s no malice or forethought here. The truck ran out of gas, short grave. I don`t know. I don`t see premeditation.

MURPHY: Are you serious? There was so much blood they thought that they were in a war there. And you think it was a bloody nose? He said she kicked him in the shins so he killed her and the kid, not to mention his own unborn child?

HERMAN: Where`s the murder weapon? Where`s the premeditation?

MURPHY: You`re fired. You are fired.

HERMAN: If he premeditated this, do you think he would have been so stupid as to leave the blood all over, to leave the truck, run out of gas, and be caught by the police that night walking on the highway?

GRACE: Richard, I appreciate that long soliloquy, but I think you`re headed toward a voluntary or involuntarily manslaughter based on provocation or passion.

Let me quickly go to Marc Klaas, victims` rights advocate.

Marc, I get the anger in the moment, and you hit someone, but where do you go from punching a woman in the face to make her nose bleed to strangling her?

KLAAS: No sane and rational person does anything like that. I think Wendy hit the nail on the head. This guy didn`t want to admit that -- well, he didn`t want to pay child support, basically, is probably what it came down to. We can`t believe anything that anybody would say that would engage in the kind of activity he engaged in. It`s just unbelievable.

GRACE: Another question to you, Candace Delong, as Marc Klaas just pointed out, the specter of child support loomed. We heard all of this before in speculation leading up to the Scott Peterson trial, why someone would do this.

But here, Candace, you have got the other specter of not just killing a pregnant lady when the fetus is viable, but killing a boy, a 7-year-old boy. I`m not getting the psychology of that. To avoid child support, you have to kill seven-year-old boy, too?

DELONG: No, I don`t think so. OK, first of all, we don`t know that he simply didn`t want to pay child support. We don`t know -- I agree with Wendy. We can`t necessarily believe what we`re hearing. You know, he says he strangled them, but there`s all this blood. For all we know, he wanted her to marry him and she said, "No."

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

HERMAN:: No, he broke up with her.

DELONG: Oh, OK.

GRACE: Wait, who is that speaking?

HERMAN: Richard Herman.

GRACE: Let me go to you, Richard Herman. Thank you.

It`s my understanding, as well as yours, that he was married, right, Richard?

HERMAN: It`s my understanding that they were dating, that he impregnated her sometime in July. And at sometime in September, he broke off the relationship with her. There was some sort of an affair, and that he married a woman in September, October `04. He was the one that ended the relationship.

GRACE: Candace, how does that affect your...

DELONG: OK. Maybe he wanted her to have an abortion. Maybe he wanted her to move. We don`t know all the details yet.

But in regards to your question, Nancy, about, you know -- you can understand the problem snapping, if you will, in a fight with the mom, and the about-to-be mom again, but why the little boy? I think he probably was not meant to be there. And he, I`m guessing, based on cases I have worked, he entered the room and he became a witness to a homicide.

And in the possibly -- you know, people committing homicide, there`s no handbook. It`s certainly not something that even, I think, premeditated you do cool, calm and collectedly and then turn around and see a seven- year-old boy standing there who can identify you, I can see where in cases like this.

GRACE: I don`t know if it was cool, calm and collected, Candace, because we know there was a great degree of blood...

DELONG: I don`t think it was.

GRACE: ... there in the home.

DELONG: Right.

GRACE: Things obviously didn`t go the way he planned when he got there. Then he suddenly has a seven-year-old witness.

DELONG: Right.

GRACE: That`s my thinking. I think...

DELONG: No, that`s whey meant. Even if a crime is premeditated and the killer is cool, calm and collected, it`s still not going to be easy to do. They`re not going to be thinking straight. And so, if you can imagine being in the heat of passion and a seven-year-old that can I.D. you walks in the room, that seven-year-old is going to get killed.

GRACE: Marc Klaas, do you think this will be a death-penalty case?

KLAAS: I would hope certainly hope it`s a death penalty case. I don`t see any reason in the world why this guy should continue to exist on Earth.

GRACE: We`re going to take a quick break. We have got all sides represented tonight. Stunning news today. We all there was, or hoped, Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden, would come home safely. That did not happen.

Very quickly, as we go to break, another trial tracker report. This time, Sarah Johnson, the 16-year-old Idaho girl on trial for the murders of both her parents, mom and dad, in court today. The prosecution prepares to rest their case. The defense, now gearing up to offer their version. They`ve got an eye on the courtroom, and we will bring you the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, high-profile examples of a disturbing trend made public in the Peterson trial. Number-one cause of death amongst pregnant women, homicide.

Today, Stephen Barbee apparently follows in that trend, allegedly giving a confession to the murders of his pregnant former girlfriend, Lisa, and her son, seven-year-old Jayden.

Welcome back, everyone. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

I`ve got in my hand an arrest warrant. And this is based, as many of you already know, upon sworn testimony by a police officer, what he examined, what he saw, what the defendant, Stephen Barbee, said to him.

Richard Herman, will this affidavit come into court?

HERMAN: This affidavit will probably come into court. It`s going to be incriminating evidence against him.

And he`s going to need an attorney, Nancy. We don`t have an attorney representing him yet. We don`t know how this confession, this alleged confession, came about. We don`t know if they beat the crap out of them there. We don`t know anything about this. If it was coerced out of him, it`s not valid.

GRACE: Richard, if we don`t know anything, then why are you suggesting that he had the crap beaten out of him? Why would you even say that?

HERMAN: Well, because everything is speculation. You have a beautiful confession. I`m saying, I don`t think it`s so beautiful.

GRACE: You know what? I have got an idea.

HERMAN: I don`t think they sent him a cup of coffee.

GRACE: Richard, hold that thought. I`ve got an idea.

Let me ask my producer, Elizabeth, if you could pull up that shot, the still of Stephen Barbee. This apparently was taken after his arrest.

Wendy, I don`t see any bruises or cuts.

MURPHY: No.

GRACE: Apparently he wasn`t beaten into a confession.

MURPHY: Another one of those really hard kicks in the shin, I guess. You know, Nancy, I just want to make an argument in favor of premeditation. Everyone thinks he snapped. We are so quick to forgive these guys that beat the hell out of their wives and kill them. "Oh, the poor guy snapped. She was pressuring him to, you know, leave his wife." Please.

The evidence the police have gathered from his friend is that he got a ride to Lisa`s house by his friend and he said to his friend, "I just can`t do it." And let`s be very clear that that does have more than one interpretation, but there`s no doubt this guy had a weapon. Because you don`t bleed to death from suffocation.

And the news reports have told us that something, quote, "an item of interest," was recovered from Barbee`s home. That`s code for a knife or a gun. And you don`t go visiting your girlfriend just to be nice to her with a knife or gun in your pocket.

GRACE: Let me go to Marc Klaas.

Marc Klaas, I was reading this arrest warrant, this sworn affidavit. It says, "Barbee said he placed his hand over the child`s mouth and nose and suffocated him to death. The child had entered the room screaming."

I mean, when a jury hears that, if this comes into evidence...

KLAAS: Well, listen. I don`t even -- I`m on Wendy`s side on this thing. I`m sorry. I believe that this guy went in and he had a plan. He had an idea of what he wanted to do. The little boy probably walked in on something he shouldn`t have seen and became a secondary victim to this whole thing.

My lord, this guy -- I have snapped. Everything has snapped, Nancy. You end up sleeping on the couch when you snap. Only if you have criminal intent in your mind are you going to commit something like this. This is so far on the dark side that it`s inexcusable on any level of society, any level whatsoever.

GRACE: Do I still have with me, Elizabeth, David Majia, Jayden`s grandfather?

MAJIA: Yes, yes.

GRACE: Sir, I know all of us lawyers are talking about this evidence and legal aspects of the case as if you`re not in the room. I know you`re in the room. I know you`re hearing this.

When you hear sworn testimony about placing his hand over Jayden`s mouth and nose and suffocating the little thing to death, I don`t know how you contain yourself. This is your blood.

MAJIA: Well, it`s very, very difficult. You know, there`s a sworn statement. He has admitted to this. Yes, I`m many, many miles away in Missouri and he is in Texas. There`s a part of me that says, you know, if he were here...

GRACE: You`d kill him.

MAJIA: Well, I don`t know that I`d do that, but, you know, there`s a part of every one of us inside that just -- you know, there`s a little bit of hate somewhere. And, you know, when I listen to you talk about this, listen to the other panel, you know, there`s pros and cons. You know, I`m concerned that, with all this going on -- you know, if he`s guilty, he`s guilty. It`s not my place to say he`s guilty but...

GRACE: True.

MAJIA: If he has admitted to this, yes, it`s devastating for me to hear you say that he put his hands over my grandson`s nose and mouth and suffocated a seven-year-old to death. That`s devastating. You know, my gut right now is churning. And, you know, I don`t want to get sick on national TV. But, you know, that`s just the way I feel right now.

GRACE: You know, just reading this, and I know you`ll probably be present if there is a jury trial, just reading it, and that`s the tip of the iceberg. I`m going to quickly go to Daniel Horowitz.

Daniel, there`s another issue for the defense to deal with. His name is Ron Dodd, a friend that this guy, Barbee, asked basically to help him along the way unwittingly, give him a ride, help him get gas, and Ron Dodd has been totally cooperative in helping the police. He also gave a video statement. So even if the main evidence that we know of tonight, the confession, is suppressed by some slick defense lawyer, you still got to contend with Ron Dodd, a defense attorney`s worst nightmare.

HOROWITZ: Nancy, I agree. But here`s the thing. Here`s how you save this man`s life.

You`ve established, if it`s true, that the killing of Lisa was a crime of passion and that when young Jayden came in, that might have been premeditated. Maybe he suffocated him on purpose. But that`s a single murder of a child above age six. What we have to do is separate the horror of what the family is feeling with our need for revenge. Revenge does not bring them back.

GRACE: You know what? You said almost the exact same thing when I argued with you about the Scott Peterson case why that should not be a death-penalty case.

Wendy Murphy, he is right. In Texas, the cut off is child under age six alone to qualify for a D.P., death penalty. But here there are two dead bodies. In California, it would have been three dead bodies with the unborn fetus.

MURPHY: That`s right. Look, Texas is not shy about charging people with death-penalty cases and executing them. I think they are number one in the nation, and they have been that way for a long time. You can`t get away with this stuff in Texas.

And look, Daniel is right. Everyone is right. Of course, he`s entitled to a trial. I am not his jury. I am not the judge. I`m allowed to judge him. I think he`s guilty.

And I don`t buy most of his confession. I think he`s an evil, horrible person who did something just so ghastly Nancy is half crying through this show. Look, if anyone should die -- and I`m against the death penalty -- but if anyone should die, it should be someone like this.

And if you can name a reason for me why someone who is guilty of this crime shouldn`t die, Daniel, do share it with us.

HOROWITZ: I`ll tell you why, Wendy. Because he has admitted to it. You know, all of these people who don`t admit to it -- Scott Peterson...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK. That`s enough. Thanks, Daniel. In that`s the best you can say is this guy admitted to what many would consider triple murder -- oh, I see Daniel`s still talking. Hold on, Daniel. We`re going to break. We`re going to break.

We`ll be right back. Our all-star panel lined up along with relatives in this case, relatives of the deceased.

As you know, we hear at NANCY GRACE desperately want to find missing people to help solve unsolved homicides. Tonight, take a look at this little boy, Chuck Mauk. This is especially dear to my heart. It`s near my hometown. Chuck was riding home on his bike in Warner Robins, Georgia, stopped to talk to a guy in a car, and as he got back on his bike, the driver fatally shot the boy dead near a 7-11, 1987. He was just 13 years old.

If you have any information about this boy, Chuck Mauk`s murder, please call the Carole Sund/Carrington Foundation, 1-888-813-8389. There is a reward connected with Chuck Mauk`s death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: This is a shot of Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden. Their bodies were found today in a shallow grave after a massive Texas manhunt. The 34-year-old and 7-year-old, apparently, were suffocated to death by an ex-boyfriend. That`s what we hear tonight. I`m basing that on what I`m learning from this arrest warrant, sworn affidavit against the defendant in this case, Stephen Barbee.

Very quickly, I want to go to Jayden`s grandfather one last time, David Majia.

Sir, final thoughts?

MAJIA: Well, it`s been a horrible 48 hours for a lot of people. And I would like to thank the Fort Worth law enforcement agencies for their timely work in this horrible event.

And also I want to send my condolences -- we have talked to Lisa`s mother on several occasions over the last couple of days. And I send our condolences from our family -- and that you are in our prayers and that you keep our family in your prayers.

But, you know, most of all, you know, Stephen Barbee needs to be in our prayers, too. It`s a difficult thing to say that but, you know, things need to be like that for us to get on to the next step.

GRACE: Thank you, sir.

Marc Klaas, final thoughts?

KLAAS: ... he had just put the whole thing in a great picture frame. The vast majority of people are like him. They are willing to forgive. They want to lead law-abiding lives. They wouldn`t hurt anybody. They would do anything to help someone. And then you have some creature like Barbee who breaks into somebody`s family and destroys lives with a ripple effect that will probably go on for years now.

GRACE: Marc, when you hear about cases like this, it`s got to remind you of Polly`s death and disappearance.

KLAAS: Well, it always does. And I`ve got to tell you -- you know, let`s hand kudos to the man who got the interrogation, or the man who conducted the interrogation and got this confession because, quite frankly, that`s what`s going to ultimately bring peace to this family, knowing that she`s not out there and that Jayden`s not out there suffering anymore.

GRACE: I want to thank all of my guests, Marc Klaas, Candace Delong, Daniel Horowitz, Richard Herman, Wendy Murphy and, of course, the family of Jayden, David Majia and Carl Butcher.

I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight.

Tomorrow on Court TV, I`ll bring you live coverage of the Sarah Johnson trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, and closing arguments. Thanks for being with us and inviting us into your homes.

Coming up, the latest headlines from around the world. I`ll see you here tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END