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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Pope Undergoes Surgery;

Aired February 24, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. Many of you have been watching Larry for the last hour, others of you are just joining in, so let's try and get everyone on the same page, at least, where the pope's condition is concerned, and we'll move forward from there.
The pope is in a Rome hospital tonight. He got there after having more breathing problems and more flu. At any age, that is a dangerous situation. At 84, especially so. So doctors operated on the pope today, and he is recovering tonight.

Our coverage begins with Jim Bittermann in Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pope was brought to the Gemelli Hospital by ambulance just before 11:00 a.m. local time, and those who saw him arrive said he was partially sitting up and waved at hospital personnel.

At first, the Vatican simply said that he was suffering a relapse of the flu that brought him here three weeks ago, along with unspecified complications. Hours later, it became clear that one of the complications was that the pope was in need of surgery, a tracheotomy to help his labored breathing.

That operation took place shortly after 8:00 p.m. local time and lasted about a half-hour.

Afterwards, a hospital spokesman read a Vatican statement that appeared aimed as making the surgery seem as routine as possible.

NICOLA CERBINO, HOSPITAL SPOKESMAN (through translator): The flu that led to the hospitalization of the pope in the Gemelli Hospital had some complications over the last few days, with episodes of lack of breathing, difficulty in breathing, which were already caused by stenosis. This clinical situation led to an elective tracheotomy. The result was positive. The pope is fine, and he's going to spend the night in his room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: The Vatican spokesman called the operation a success, and later a representative of Prime Minister Sylvio Berlusconi, who visited the pope's suite, said he was tranquil and doing fine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN: And Aaron, we're expecting the next official medical bulletin about six to eight hours from now, about midmorning Rome time, Aaron.

BROWN: As our viewers can see, it's early in the morning there. Do people in Rome, do people come to the hospital, did they come to the hospital when they heard that surgery was going to take place?

BITTERMANN: Not really, Aaron. In fact, I think that they've been through this now so many times with the pope, he's had so many medical problems that there's a kind of nonchalance about all this. I don't think that it's being interpreted as something that is going to lead immediately to the pope's demise. So, no, I don't think -- we haven't seen any crowds out front or anything like that.

BROWN: Jim, thank you. I know it's been a long night and morning for you. We appreciate it. Jim Bittermann in Rome tonight.

There are here medical questions, obviously. There are also some theological questions to deal with.

We'll start with the medical side. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us. He is in Atlanta.

A couple of quick ones. Can the pope -- if you've had a tracheotomy, as the pope has had, can he speak?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not while the device is actually in place, Aaron. This could, this (UNINTELLIGIBLE), while the device is in place, he probably is hooked up to a ventilator as well. So he can't speak. If he actually is off the ventilator and covers the device -- Let me show it to you. I have what one of these device looks like. It's actually sitting in his neck. He could actually cover it up and then be able to speak.

But that probably won't be for at least a few days.

BROWN: And just for those of us who aren't -- who sometimes pretend we know what you're talking about, a ventilator is a breathing machine. It pumps air into his lungs?

GUPTA: That's right.

BROWN: OK. Is there anything that you've heard today that is inconsistent medically? The Vatican puts out, in moments like this, very reassuring statements, the term elective tracheotomy, for example. Anything you hear that is inconsistent medically with what the Vatican is saying publicly?

GUPTA: Well, couple of things to keep in mind. Just an elective tracheotomy probably is overstating it. It certainly was urgent, maybe even emergent. The pope went into the hospital with breathing troubles, and within a few hours, this tracheotomy was scheduled and performed. So this was at minimum an urgent procedure. Sort of more to point, though, Larry -- sorry, Aaron -- we talked a little bit about the fact that a breathing tube is sometimes the first procedure that is done when someone is has difficulty breathing.

A breathing tube -- I have a model here, Aaron, if I can just show you for one second. What happens is, the breathing tube goes from the mouth into the trachea. That is usually the first step. What they did there in Rome was instead go straight to this tracheotomy procedure, making an incision in the neck and then placing this tracheotomy directly into -- this device directly into the trachea.

That was a little surprising, I think, to a lot of people. It may have been because he had significant inflammation in his upper airway. Unclear. We get very few details out of the Vatican.

BROWN: OK, couple, just purely medical. Does the fact that someone's having trouble breathing -- well, why would someone have trouble breathing? Why would an 84-year-old guy with the flu, with the problems that the pope has had, what's causing the breath problem?

GUPTA: Couple of things. When someone has the flu, especially someone who is of advanced age, they can have significant just inflammation of the airway. And that can cause difficulty breathing. Add to that now the fact that he also had this episode of what they called laryngospasm. Again, just so people don't know what I'm talking about, as you said earlier, Aaron, it's when you have a sort of spasm of the upper airway, and that can also make it difficult to breathe.

Add Parkinson's to that list as well. That actually causes some constriction of those muscles. And all those things can sort of add up and make it difficult for him to breathe.

BROWN: When you talk about inflammation of the airway, you're talking about sore throat?

GUPTA: Yes, this is -- not just the throat, but actually going down into the airway itself...

BROWN: OK.

GUPTA: ... down into the larynx, so further, sort of where your Adam's apple is. That area, if that gets inflamed, you can actually look and see that the airway is inflamed, and that's maybe one of the reasons why they didn't actually pass the tube from his mouth into the airway...

BROWN: OK.

GUPTA: ... it was just that the airway was too inflamed.

BROWN: One last question, and you've had long night too. I, if you're the doc in this situation, what's the thing that worries you most right now? GUPTA: I think that the thing that's most concerning is still the fact that he's an elderly person with a significant medical history who's now had this pretty significant event, a tracheotomy. Why that's significant is, when you talk about the flu and you talk about the tens of thousands of people who die from the flu, it's not the flu itself, it's the complications of the flu, things like pneumonia, bacterial infections.

Those, you know, again, with his other medical problems, these things start to add up. I think there's a chance that he could sort of scoop through this episode, but if there's one more sort of downturn for him, Aaron, I think that could be a big problem.

BROWN: Doc, you've been terrific all afternoon and all night. Thank you.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BROWN: Appreciate it, Sanjay Gupta in Atlanta.

The pope, that the pope is frail is obvious. So is his resolve. Throughout his long illness or illnesses, John Paul has shown no signs of stepping down. The responsibilities of the pope do not pause for illness. And for the Vatican, that has been a challenge of late, creatively met.

Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Against considerable odds and amid great personal suffering, Pope John Paul II clings to his papacy.

On Wednesday, his last appearance, televised from his library. There was no evidence of the recurring flu that would drive him back into hospital.

Yet on Sunday, John Paul appeared to summon all his strength to reaffirm his belief he was appointed by God to the Throne of St. Peter, implicitly affirming only God can remove him.

Yet that persistent hoarseness was symptomatic of the throat problems which put the pope back on the operating table, this time with a tracheotomy.

Still, Vatican officials tended to portray John Paul's suffering as a kind of divine mission. Was not this the pope who beat the assassin's bullet in 1981?

ARCHBISHOP JOHN FOLEY, VATICAN SPOKESMAN: Even though he may not be able to give a long speech, a symbolic presence, a symbolic act is most important.

RODGERS: Through modern technology, the pope now holds virtual Vatican audiences, video programming enabling him to be there without being there, here conveying to rapt pilgrims that the most-traveled pope in history might just go on forever.

An eternal pope seems the impression this Vatican tries to convey, releasing yet another book this week, said to be written by His Holiness, fostering the belief he's been the most prolific pope in history.

ROBERT MICKENS, VATICAN WRITER FOR "THE TABLET": The reality is, there's -- it is absolutely impossible for him to have written all this stuff. The way it works in the Vatican is, these -- most of these documents are farmed out to Vatican agencies.

RODGERS (on camera): So even as the pope lies in hospital, his Vatican remains an entity unto itself, unlike any other, where myth and reality, mortality and immortality, run together, and sometimes are hard to distinguish.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: When the pope was rushed to the hospital back on the first of February, we called on Father Thomas Reese for his knowledge of the inner workings of the Vatican and on the pope. Father Reese is the editor in chief of the Catholic weekly magazine "America," author of a book on the Vatican, and a CNN Vatican analyst. A lot of titles. He's back with us tonight.

It's nice to see you under, again, difficult conditions.

If you listened to Walter's piece, he talks about -- it's not fair to say that the pope, at this point in his life, is a figurehead, but it is fair to say that the day-to-day stuff is dealt with by others?

FR. THOMAS J. REESE, S.J., CNN PAPAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, you know, as a young pope, he was very energetic. I mean, he wrote his own encyclicals, he traveled all over the world, he had great stamina, great energy, a photographic memory. You know, he would meet with people and dialogue and talk about issues.

You know, he's older now. He's slowed down, and he can't do the things that he used to be able to do.

BROWN: So but he has gathered around him people who know how he thinks and what he believes is correct. But there are certain things that only a pope can do, fair?

REESE: Absolutely. You're right. I mean, he's had all these years to gather around people he trusts, people who understand him, people who know the way he thinks. You know, and like anybody at the head of a huge organization, things come to him, and he says, Well, you know, is this OK?

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: Should I sign it? BROWN: Yes.

REESE: You know, you can't read every piece of paper that...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... comes across your desk. So he has confidence in certain people, like Cardinal Sodano who's the secretary of state, who's really the number two man there, Cardinal Ratzinger, who's his adviser on doctrinal issues. So, you know, these are people he trusts.

BROWN: Will this discussion, which has kind of demystifying the pope, will this be uncomfortable for some people, do you think, to think about, that there are -- that he doesn't make every decision, and...

REESE: Well, I mean, we and -- you know, we Catholics, at least any of us who know anything about the history of the church, know that we're a very human institution. You know, we were founded by Christ...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... but then he left...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... and then put us in charge. And, you know, and the church is run by human beings.

Now, we've been very lucky with some outstanding popes in -- at the 20th century, and now with Pope John Paul into the 21st century. Really gifted, bright, good, holy people. You know, in our history, we've had some real losers.

So, you know, we're doing very well these days.

BROWN: It's been, I think, six centuries since a pope has resigned, something like that.

REESE: Yes, the last pope that resigned was Gregory XII, who resigned almost 600 years ago. It was a deal that was worked out to end the great Western schism. And he was asked to resign by the Council of Constance, and he did. There were three popes running around at the time, and he resigned, and they were able to bring the church back into unity, and they elected a new pope.

BROWN: Do you think there are -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- are there discussions like that, or are people thinking about things like that within the church?

REESE: Well, we face a new problem today, you know, the fact that modern medicine...

BROWN: Yes. REESE: ... can keep people...

BROWN: It's exactly...

REESE: ... alive...

BROWN: ... what I was thinking.

REESE: I mean, you know...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... they can keep people alive physically when -- you know, long after they're able to do a job, you know...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... when their mind can function. And sooner or later, we're going to have to face that reality in the Catholic Church. And I think we're going to have to recognize that, yes, someday probably in this century, a pope is going to have to be allowed to resign.

BROWN: Let me ask you one more question. How would you like non-Catholics to think about moments like this?

REESE: Well, I think we as Catholics are very moved and comforted by the support we feel from Protestants, from Jews, from...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... other religious people all over the world, who look to the Holy Father, see him as an admirable holy man, and are praying with us, and concerned with us. And I find that very comforting. And it shows how far we've moved. You know, a few hundred years ago, 200 years ago, we were fighting each other. Now...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... you know, we're all standing in vigil at the pope's bedside.

BROWN: I mean, it, there is that. I mean, that, to me, is not overstatement. I think people, for -- throw a cliche in here, people of goodwill sort of understand that this is a moment for everyone to stop and reflect a little bit on a rather extraordinary papacy, and pray or wish or whatever one does nothing but good.

REESE: Yes. Well, we as Christians, of course, you know, look on death not as an end.

BROWN: Right.

REESE: It is a door that opens into new life. And this pope has spent his whole life teaching us how to live. Well, he's spending the last, what, who knows how many months of his life teaching us how to face death. BROWN: Well, let's hope that he has a long time yet to do the teaching.

It's nice to see you. We see you on difficult days. Good to see you.

REESE: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you.

We have much more coming up in this hour of NEWSNIGHT, starting with young drivers and the dangers they face.

A new study proves that the only way to keep teenage drivers from dying is to keep them off the road.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTURO BETANCOURT, VICTIM'S FATHER: I've been told by hundreds of parents, you did everything right. Is my daughter alive? No. I did everything right, and it still didn't save her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Bowling and dollars. What young workers really think about Social Security and the president's plan to change it.

And life imitating art.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you drink and dial?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't drink and dial, did you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The little movie that found its audience and breathed new life into wine country.

From Northern California to New York City and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: New York City on a snowy, blizzardy February night. That's Central Park. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) little bit to "The Gates." There they are. From here, it looks sort of nice. It's not nice out.

The ethics of organ transplants now. In this case, a man in need of a kidney. Unlike other organs, you can get a kidney from a living donor. This is a story about how a man in need found a willing donor, only to find him apparently taken away.

From Florida tonight, CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time in a long time, Alex Crionas had reason to celebrate. He needed a kidney, and after one friend backed out of an offer to help...

ALEX CRIONAS: I knew that those things could happen.

CANDIOTTI: Just last month, another friend, professional comedian Patrick Garrity, stepped in.

PATRICK GARRITY, FRIEND: If I was in that situation, I would want a friend to be able to help me out.

CANDIOTTI: Not only was he willing to help out, he could.

CRIONAS: He was tissue type and found to be compatible with me, so we were a match.

CANDIOTTI: But little did Alex Crionas know that a Web site he set up nearly two years ago would come back to haunt him. On the Web site, he wrote about his disease and his need for a donor.

CRIONAS: People aren't really interested in statistics, they're touched by personal stories, and I had a story to tell.

CANDIOTTI: A story about being on dialysis at least three times a week, four hours a day. He says he did not offer to buy a kidney.

CRIONAS: I don't have any money, especially to pay for an organ.

CANDIOTTI: And, in fact, he met Garrity through friends, not the Internet. But when a Tampa transplant institute, LifeLink, discovered the Web site, it sent a letter to Crionas saying that he would not be allowed a new kidney, even his friend's kidney, because of his Internet activities. The letter stated that the American Society of Transplant Surgeons and LifeLink are strongly opposed to the solicitation of organ donors through Web sites.

CRIONAS: I had to reread it, and I was numb.

CANDIOTTI: LifeLink said that the Web site gave Crionas an unfair advantage over others.

RUTH BELL, LIFELINK: Not everyone has access or the means to own a computer. Ethically speaking, how does that then impact those patients, who may or may not be just as sick, on the waiting list?

RUTH BELL, LIFELINK: If they had said to me, Listen, you have a Web site, and we can't proceed unless you take it down, I would have taken it down. I'm not going to sacrifice my life for my personal beliefs.

CANDIOTTI: But for now, LifeLink has not changed its position, and Alex Crionas will have to keep on waiting.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: New chapter in the battle over abortion and the laws being written in the state of Kansas. In fact, this fight has been going on in secret since last fall. The state attorney general there is seeking information on 90 women and girls who have had abortions at two Kansas clinics. The lower court said he could have them, the detailed information. The state supreme court so far has not agreed.

The attorney general joins us in a moment.

First, the background from CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since last October, the Kansas attorney general has been trying to obtain the names and medical records of some 90 women and girls who had abortions in the state, as part of a criminal investigation, he says, into possible sex with minors, or illegal late-term abortions.

Two abortion clinics are fighting Attorney General Phil Kline in court, arguing that releasing a patient's complete medical records could violate constitutional guarantees of privacy. Kline insists he's just enforcing the law.

PHILL KLINE, KANSAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: And as the state's chief law enforcement official, it is my obligation to investigate child rape in order to protect Kansas children.

FREED: The effort to obtain the records had been kept secret until this week, when details came to light in a legal brief filed by attorneys for the clinics. State lawmakers are lining up on both sides.

PAUL DAVIS (D), KANSAS STATE SENATOR: I think there are more serious issues that the attorney general needs to be directing his attention to. And, you know, I think we need an attorney general, not an abortion general.

FREED: Others believe the end justifies the means, if it means uncovering any sex crimes committed against children.

PHILLIP JOURNEY (R), KANSAS STATE SENATOR: The state's interest outweighs the privacy interest when there's probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.

FREED: The Associated Press reports the medical records in question could reveal, among other things, the patient's name, medical history, details of her sex life, birth control practices, and psychological profile.

Jonathan Freed, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: The man at the center of this dispute, as you've heard, is the Kansas attorney general, Phill Kline. And we spoke to General Kline earlier this evening.

Why has this been secret?

KLINE: Well, in criminal investigations typically, to protect the privacy of all involved, are not something you reveal, and also to protect the integrity of the investigation. You see, it's vitally important to know that before you charge anybody, and even when you charge, everybody's presumed innocent. So it's just a policy I have in not revealing investigations.

BROWN: So the 90 women whose records you are now seeking aren't entitled to know that the state of Kansas is wanting to see their records?

KLINE: Well, there's a couple of things regarding that. First of all, these records are sought through a district court subpoena. And a district court does not act unless it sees, in the evidence presented to it, that there's probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed. And then it issues the subpoena to obtain evidence of that crime.

And so it's fairly routine. This happens across America every day, where investigators get subpoenas for information that's not necessarily revealed.

BROWN: Well, look, I mean, we're both big boys here. It is not fairly routine, in Kansas or anywhere else in America, for the state to go into clinics to seek the sex histories of patients. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Whether it's unprecedented, I wouldn't say. But it's not routine.

KLINE: Well, it's not the sex history of the patients that is sought. Here's what not routine. Public records in Kansas, and I can speak about the public records and not the specifics of the investigation, but public records show in the year 2003 alone, 78 children, 14 years of age and younger, have had abortions in Kansas.

Now, in Kansas, when a 10- or 11- or 12-year-old is pregnant, that is called rape. And we have an obligation in law enforcement to investigate child rapes, so we can prevent future rape, and actually bring the predator to justice.

And so the child's privacy is protected. You never see the victim, the name of the victim, the child victim, in the paper. It's perfectly protected in this process.

But I'll tell you what, there's two things that child predators want, access to children, and secrecy. And I'm bound and determined not to give them either.

BROWN: The state supreme court has yet to allow this to take place. KLINE: Correct. The district court has issued a subpoena. Next week, we will file our brief, and in our brief, you will see the extraordinary steps the district court has taken to protect the child's privacy. And the supreme court will consider all of that and issue some kind of a ruling.

BROWN: The way this is being perceived, fairly or not, is that this really has more to do with abortion politics than it has to do with anything. Are you...

KLINE: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

BROWN: ... are you prepared to say to me and to people who are watching here that this isn't about abortion politics, this isn't about 22-week abortions, 24-week abortions, mother's health, that this is just about children who may have been sexually abused?

KLINE: Well, this is about the law. And Kansas law prohibits raping a child. Kansas law requires clinics to report when they know that children have been raped. Kansas law does not allow late-term abortion unless there is substantial likelihood of severe and irreversible damage to a major bodily function of the mother.

That's the law. And my job, as the chief law enforcement officer, is to enforce the law. It's that simple. I will not go beyond the law, but I will not ignore violations of the law.

BROWN: Well, we look forward to the brief that your side files, and we'll see how the court in Kansas handles this. And I suspect beyond. These things have a way of working their way through all sorts of courts.

It's nice to meet you, sir. We appreciate your time.

KLINE: I appreciate your time, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, sir.

Phill Kline, the attorney general in the state of Kansas.

Coming up on the program, what young Americans are saying about things that may seem a long way off, Social Security, private accounts, and their retirement.

And the tragic story behind these dramatic pictures, the tsunami revisited.

From around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: At the risk of making this overly personal, there are no words scarier in the language for the father of a 16-year-old than, hey, dad, I'm old enough to drive. Kids have car accidents. The good news tonight is that fewer of them are dying, a lot fewer over the last decade. The bad news is, it isn't because they're any less dangerous behind the wheel.

The story from CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Arturo Betancourt was so proud of his daughter. Alicia (ph) was sensitive, a talented artist. He had asked so many questions that night, been so careful.

DR. ARTURO BETANCOURT, VICTIM'S FATHER: I'd been told by hundreds of parents, You did everything right. Is my daughter alive? No. I did everything right. It still didn't save her.

FRANKEN: She was the passenger in a car driven by another 16- year-old who police said was speeding and lost control. Alicia was killed instantly.

BETANCOURT: I'm angry at the driver. He was doing something for which he was not prepared. And the fact that my daughter is dead is a result of his negligence.

FRANKEN: There are aggressive efforts to address the risk-taking immaturity of 16-year-olds, and innovative teaching aids, an insurance company tape, for instance, put microcameras into cars to show teenagers who thought they were driving sensibly taking risks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I want people to feel safe. Because, I mean, when someone's in your car, their life is in your hands.

FRANKEN: In fact, a study by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety shows a full 26 percent drop in the rate of 16-year-old traffic deaths over 10 years.

(on camera): One reason, there are fewer 16-year-old drivers. Most states have imposed restrictions on their licenses. Maryland is considering limitations at first on nighttime driving, the number of teenaged passengers, and the use of cell phones.

SAMANTHA MILLER, 12TH GRADER: I think all those things can be a distraction. You're new, when you're a new driver, you're still learning the rules of the road.

FRANKEN: Alicia Betancourt will never get that chance.

BETANCOURT: One of the things that we mourn is, what would have happened with her life? What was she going to do? What would she have accomplished?

FRANKEN: Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Two months ago this weekend, the tsunami struck South Asia, leaving tens of thousands of broken families in its path. The lucky ones, if you can call them that, were able to recover their loved one's bodies. Many others were left with no trace at all of their loss, the grief made worse by the uncertainty.

With so much time passed, it would be easy to give up hope of learning what happened in those final moments. Three brothers in Canada almost had, and then the pictures arrived.

Here is CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They knew their parents were there when the tsunami hit. And days later, the Knill brothers of Vancouver received the awful confirmation. Their mother, Jackie, and their father, John, had perished in the waters.

CHRISTIAN KNILL, OLDEST SON: So there was a bit of hope, but, you know, now it's gone.

BUCKLEY (on camera): And like so many other loved ones of the victims, they were left with the question, How did they die?

(voice-over): And then this month, it was as if John and Jackie Knill spoke to their boys through these pictures that they apparently snapped as the tsunami roared ashore. The beach, the water suddenly recedes. People are curious. Then, a wave in the distance. It's getting closer. Some start to run. The water is churning. And then it's upon them.

A final shot shows the wave hitting the beach.

PATRICK KNILL, MIDDLE SON: They were probably thinking, OK, let's try to get this, so if, by chance, it does get to somebody, they'll be able to see what happened, you know? And I know they were together, because they were always together.

BUCKLEY: The brothers knew, because other shots showed their parents enjoying their vacation, and because this man, Christian Pilet, a missionary from Seattle, was determined to find out who the couple was when he and a colleague found a smashed-up digital camera amid debris in the disaster zone.

CHRISTIAN PILET, FOUND THE KNILLS' CAMERA: I said, Well, you know, my idea was, We'll just junk it, we don't need it. And he said, Oh, hold on. And he pulls out the compact flash. And he says, You never know, the little card might have recorded something.

BUCKLEY: They popped it into their laptop, and up came the images.

But who were these people in the images? They checked embassies, to no avail. When Pilet returned to Seattle, he and his wife searched Internet sites for the missing.

Almost immediately, they found the Knills. PILET: We were glad to be able to give them this back to them. If anything, it's a gift to the sons from their parents.

BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, Vancouver, British Columbia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, in California wine country, walking a straight line between life and art.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

PAUL GIAMATTI, ACTOR: We should do every one of them.

THOMAS HADEN CHURCH, ACTOR: Wow. When do we drink it?

GIAMATTI: Now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: It may not be to your taste, but the movie "Sideways" has clearly found its audience. Jeff Greenfield with that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Bush has wrapped up his trip to Europe. He met with Russian President Vladimir Putin earlier today in Slovakia. The president expressed his concerns that Russia's young democracy is losing ground, according to the White House. He cited restrictions on freedom of the press and crackdowns against Mr. Putin's political opponents.

The Russian president publicly reaffirmed Russia's commitment to democracy. The two leaders agreed that Iran and North Korea should not possess nuclear weapons.

The beauty of youth is that risk doesn't seem that risky. You have all those years in front of you to get back on your feet. So it is with the fight so Social Security and the changes the president proposes. There's no question his idea of personal accounts presents more personal risk, as well as the potential for greater reward. Where you line up on that may be influenced as much by your age as your politics.

Here's CNN's Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Do younger workers really think much about their retirement? We were skeptical. So, we caught up with some at a bowling alley, one of those funky, trendy bowling alleys where you won't find Homer Simpson, but you will find a lot of young people, like this 32-year-old Washington, D.C., man starting a career in Web site design and a family. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife, we have been married for a year and just kind of getting our life started. So, we definitely have to think about these things. It's suddenly become important to us.

SCHNEIDER: Polls show, the younger you are, the more you tend to like the idea of personal retirement accounts. Older workers say, no way. They dependent on Social Security. Younger workers say, way by a small majority. But they're more supportive than any other age group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call me a cynic, but I never spend much time thinking about Social Security as a part of my retirement.

SCHNEIDER: Cynic? Listen to this young health care recruiter who moved to the Washington area from Iowa looking for career opportunities.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, I'm paying for older people to retire, but, by the time that I am going to retire, I'm not going to have any money (INAUDIBLE) Social Security.

SCHNEIDER: Her theory of what's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby boomers are getting older. There's a lot more of them than there is of us. It's just a matter of time when, you know, Social Security is just going to go all to them.

SCHNEIDER: This 35-year-old who works for a small company spoke for many bowlers that night when he said, we want to control our own money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the ones working for the money. Why can't we handle it ourselves?

SCHNEIDER (on camera): It's like bowling. You control your money like you control your ball.

(voice-over): You roll it and, with some skill, you get a strike, or at least a spare, financial security. I can do that, young people say. But a lot of people throw gutter balls. What happens to them? Young people care about that, too. That's their big problem with President Bush's plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry about those that won't know what to do with their money, because I think they'll end up being left out in the cold and their money will be squandered.

SCHNEIDER: But you won't scare these young workers by telling them personal accounts are risky because, as this tech support specialist from Boston put it, Social Security is just as risky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it right now, it is a risk. You probably won't even get the money when you retire. So, it probably won't be any different.

SCHNEIDER: President Bush is targeting his Social Security message at young people like these and hoping for a strike.

Bill Schneider, CNN, Bethesda, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the movie that gave merlot a bad name and the California wine country a big boost.

And later in the program, morning papers, news the old-fashioned way.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: If merlot could talk, we're sure it would be outraged; 2004 was a lousy year for the unassuming wine, which was, for all purposes, slandered big time on the big screen. Sure, the sucker punch came by way of fictional characters in the movie "Sideways," but if you have any doubt about the power of art to imitate life, take a look and feel the pain of the poor merlot.

Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT")

CLARK GABLE, ACTOR: If you will notice, the coat came first, then the tie, then the shirt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): When moviegoers in the 1930 saw that matinee idol Clark Gable didn't wear a undershirt, sales of that garment plummeted. When the new century was dawning, countless fans of "Sex and the City" turned to cosmopolitans for their thirst and Manolo Blahniks for their feet..

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SEX AND THE CITY")

SARAH JESSICA PARKER, ACTRESS: Well, these are pretty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: And, now:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: If anybody orders merlot, I'm leaving. I am not drinking any merlot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And no merlots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No merlots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wouldn't drink merlot for anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No (EXPLETIVE DELETED) merlot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No merlot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No merlot.

GREENFIELD (on camera): If you're looking for a dramatic example of life imitating art, then come here to the wine country north of Santa Barbara, California, setting for the Oscar-nominated movie "Sideways." The film has triggered a wave of pilgrims who have come here searching for the wine so extravagantly praised in the movie and also searching for the experience of the film itself.

(voice-over): Kathy Janega-Dykes who runs a Santa Barbara Visitors Bureau, says they ran clear through the 10,000 maps they prepared for the tourists.

KATHY JANEGA-DYKES, SANTA BARBARA VISITORS BUREAU: So, we basically have all of the restaurants and the wineries that are featured in the movie, so people are taking this map and they're going up to the valley on their own tour.

GREENFIELD: And just about every day, tours like this wine adventure tour head for the settings where the movie was filmed, often echoing lines from the movie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

HADEN CHURCH: Did you drink and dial?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't drink and dial, did you?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: At the Sanford Winery in Buellton, tasting room manager Chris Burroughs, who plays himself in the movie, has heard the overwrought vocabulary of wine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: Asparagus and...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: Spill over into real life.

CHRIS BURROUGHS, SANFORD WINERY: Our scene at Sanford involves the Miles character going totally overblown in these wine descriptions and using phrases like asparagus and stuff. And we're hearing that now.

GREENFIELD: At the Los Olivos Cafe where Miles, Jack, Stephanie and Maya share a feast, owner Sam Marmorstein is floored by the surge in business and by the customer's eagerness to imitate the movie.

SAM MARMORSTEIN, OWNER, LOS OLIVOS CAFE: We like to sit at the table That they sat at. We like to drink the wines they drank. And it's just becoming like a cult kind of thing.

GREENFIELD: At the Hitching Post, owner Frank Ostini is happily staggered by the crowds and what they're looking for.

FRANK OSTINI, HITCHING POST: Well, everyone asks for Maya. Our answer to them now is, she's got the weekend off and up at the Big Sur with Miles.

GREENFIELD: There is one puzzling aspect to the fascination with "Sideways." Given the way Miles and Jack behave in the movie, why would anybody want to emulate those guys?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: What the hell is wrong with you? Please just shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD (voice-over): Miles is a failed writer who steals from his mother, flies into rages. Jack is a womanizing, washed-up actor whose life is literally a wreck.

BURROUGHS: He's got these amazingly flawed individuals that somehow you end up caring, whether you like them or not, you kind of are, come on, guys, please, do something good here.

GREENFIELD: While some longtime residents worry that the crowds and the attention may change the bucolic nature of this wine country, others say the movie has in fact captured what they love about wine.

Fess Parker, who gained fame half a century ago as TV's Davy Crockett, owns a hotel and a winery in Los Olivos.

FESS PARKER, ACTOR: I find that people who drink wine, smile a lot, and laugh a lot, become friends quicker.

GREENFIELD: Doug Margerum (ph) has owned a wine store and restaurant in Santa Barbara for almost 25 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

VIRGINIA MADSEN, ACTRESS: Because a bottle of wine is actually alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She spoke eloquently about how wine is a part of her life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

MADSEN: Constantly evolving and gaining complexity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a very much a part of my life and a lot of people who live up here's life.

GREENFIELD: Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Santa Barbara, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, uncork a bottle of wine.

Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world.

I don't know if we have ever done "Newsday" from Long Island, but we will tonight. And it gets the opening shot here. "Serene After Surgery." I like the picture. This was taken last month. "Pope Undergoes Tracheotomy After Breathing Problems Return." That's just a -- it's a sweet picture, to me.

"The Dallas Morning News." "Frail Pope Serene After Surgery to Aid Breathing" is the major story. I like this one down here, their take on the Bush/Putin meeting today. Wouldn't you really like to know what those meetings are like, how frank they really are? And "Bush/Putin Duel Over Democracy. Limit on Nukes OKed, But Goodwill Display Doesn't Hide Tensions."

"The Philadelphia Inquirer. "Pope Has Tracheotomy" is the lead. People praying is the picture. But I didn't know the Lynn Swann was political. "Campaigning Swann's Way." I think you'll -- when you get the paper tomorrow, they'll put something in there, OK" "The Ex- Steeler Carefully Tests GOP Gubernatorial Bid in the state of Pennsylvania."

"The Detroit Free Press." Ratings Let More Raunch Reach Teens." Have they taken a look at MTV lately?

OK, let's -- the weather for tomorrow in Chicago, "pouty."

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 a.m. tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you. Come back and see us 10:00 tomorrow night. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 24, 2005 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. Many of you have been watching Larry for the last hour, others of you are just joining in, so let's try and get everyone on the same page, at least, where the pope's condition is concerned, and we'll move forward from there.
The pope is in a Rome hospital tonight. He got there after having more breathing problems and more flu. At any age, that is a dangerous situation. At 84, especially so. So doctors operated on the pope today, and he is recovering tonight.

Our coverage begins with Jim Bittermann in Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pope was brought to the Gemelli Hospital by ambulance just before 11:00 a.m. local time, and those who saw him arrive said he was partially sitting up and waved at hospital personnel.

At first, the Vatican simply said that he was suffering a relapse of the flu that brought him here three weeks ago, along with unspecified complications. Hours later, it became clear that one of the complications was that the pope was in need of surgery, a tracheotomy to help his labored breathing.

That operation took place shortly after 8:00 p.m. local time and lasted about a half-hour.

Afterwards, a hospital spokesman read a Vatican statement that appeared aimed as making the surgery seem as routine as possible.

NICOLA CERBINO, HOSPITAL SPOKESMAN (through translator): The flu that led to the hospitalization of the pope in the Gemelli Hospital had some complications over the last few days, with episodes of lack of breathing, difficulty in breathing, which were already caused by stenosis. This clinical situation led to an elective tracheotomy. The result was positive. The pope is fine, and he's going to spend the night in his room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: The Vatican spokesman called the operation a success, and later a representative of Prime Minister Sylvio Berlusconi, who visited the pope's suite, said he was tranquil and doing fine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN: And Aaron, we're expecting the next official medical bulletin about six to eight hours from now, about midmorning Rome time, Aaron.

BROWN: As our viewers can see, it's early in the morning there. Do people in Rome, do people come to the hospital, did they come to the hospital when they heard that surgery was going to take place?

BITTERMANN: Not really, Aaron. In fact, I think that they've been through this now so many times with the pope, he's had so many medical problems that there's a kind of nonchalance about all this. I don't think that it's being interpreted as something that is going to lead immediately to the pope's demise. So, no, I don't think -- we haven't seen any crowds out front or anything like that.

BROWN: Jim, thank you. I know it's been a long night and morning for you. We appreciate it. Jim Bittermann in Rome tonight.

There are here medical questions, obviously. There are also some theological questions to deal with.

We'll start with the medical side. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us. He is in Atlanta.

A couple of quick ones. Can the pope -- if you've had a tracheotomy, as the pope has had, can he speak?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not while the device is actually in place, Aaron. This could, this (UNINTELLIGIBLE), while the device is in place, he probably is hooked up to a ventilator as well. So he can't speak. If he actually is off the ventilator and covers the device -- Let me show it to you. I have what one of these device looks like. It's actually sitting in his neck. He could actually cover it up and then be able to speak.

But that probably won't be for at least a few days.

BROWN: And just for those of us who aren't -- who sometimes pretend we know what you're talking about, a ventilator is a breathing machine. It pumps air into his lungs?

GUPTA: That's right.

BROWN: OK. Is there anything that you've heard today that is inconsistent medically? The Vatican puts out, in moments like this, very reassuring statements, the term elective tracheotomy, for example. Anything you hear that is inconsistent medically with what the Vatican is saying publicly?

GUPTA: Well, couple of things to keep in mind. Just an elective tracheotomy probably is overstating it. It certainly was urgent, maybe even emergent. The pope went into the hospital with breathing troubles, and within a few hours, this tracheotomy was scheduled and performed. So this was at minimum an urgent procedure. Sort of more to point, though, Larry -- sorry, Aaron -- we talked a little bit about the fact that a breathing tube is sometimes the first procedure that is done when someone is has difficulty breathing.

A breathing tube -- I have a model here, Aaron, if I can just show you for one second. What happens is, the breathing tube goes from the mouth into the trachea. That is usually the first step. What they did there in Rome was instead go straight to this tracheotomy procedure, making an incision in the neck and then placing this tracheotomy directly into -- this device directly into the trachea.

That was a little surprising, I think, to a lot of people. It may have been because he had significant inflammation in his upper airway. Unclear. We get very few details out of the Vatican.

BROWN: OK, couple, just purely medical. Does the fact that someone's having trouble breathing -- well, why would someone have trouble breathing? Why would an 84-year-old guy with the flu, with the problems that the pope has had, what's causing the breath problem?

GUPTA: Couple of things. When someone has the flu, especially someone who is of advanced age, they can have significant just inflammation of the airway. And that can cause difficulty breathing. Add to that now the fact that he also had this episode of what they called laryngospasm. Again, just so people don't know what I'm talking about, as you said earlier, Aaron, it's when you have a sort of spasm of the upper airway, and that can also make it difficult to breathe.

Add Parkinson's to that list as well. That actually causes some constriction of those muscles. And all those things can sort of add up and make it difficult for him to breathe.

BROWN: When you talk about inflammation of the airway, you're talking about sore throat?

GUPTA: Yes, this is -- not just the throat, but actually going down into the airway itself...

BROWN: OK.

GUPTA: ... down into the larynx, so further, sort of where your Adam's apple is. That area, if that gets inflamed, you can actually look and see that the airway is inflamed, and that's maybe one of the reasons why they didn't actually pass the tube from his mouth into the airway...

BROWN: OK.

GUPTA: ... it was just that the airway was too inflamed.

BROWN: One last question, and you've had long night too. I, if you're the doc in this situation, what's the thing that worries you most right now? GUPTA: I think that the thing that's most concerning is still the fact that he's an elderly person with a significant medical history who's now had this pretty significant event, a tracheotomy. Why that's significant is, when you talk about the flu and you talk about the tens of thousands of people who die from the flu, it's not the flu itself, it's the complications of the flu, things like pneumonia, bacterial infections.

Those, you know, again, with his other medical problems, these things start to add up. I think there's a chance that he could sort of scoop through this episode, but if there's one more sort of downturn for him, Aaron, I think that could be a big problem.

BROWN: Doc, you've been terrific all afternoon and all night. Thank you.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BROWN: Appreciate it, Sanjay Gupta in Atlanta.

The pope, that the pope is frail is obvious. So is his resolve. Throughout his long illness or illnesses, John Paul has shown no signs of stepping down. The responsibilities of the pope do not pause for illness. And for the Vatican, that has been a challenge of late, creatively met.

Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Against considerable odds and amid great personal suffering, Pope John Paul II clings to his papacy.

On Wednesday, his last appearance, televised from his library. There was no evidence of the recurring flu that would drive him back into hospital.

Yet on Sunday, John Paul appeared to summon all his strength to reaffirm his belief he was appointed by God to the Throne of St. Peter, implicitly affirming only God can remove him.

Yet that persistent hoarseness was symptomatic of the throat problems which put the pope back on the operating table, this time with a tracheotomy.

Still, Vatican officials tended to portray John Paul's suffering as a kind of divine mission. Was not this the pope who beat the assassin's bullet in 1981?

ARCHBISHOP JOHN FOLEY, VATICAN SPOKESMAN: Even though he may not be able to give a long speech, a symbolic presence, a symbolic act is most important.

RODGERS: Through modern technology, the pope now holds virtual Vatican audiences, video programming enabling him to be there without being there, here conveying to rapt pilgrims that the most-traveled pope in history might just go on forever.

An eternal pope seems the impression this Vatican tries to convey, releasing yet another book this week, said to be written by His Holiness, fostering the belief he's been the most prolific pope in history.

ROBERT MICKENS, VATICAN WRITER FOR "THE TABLET": The reality is, there's -- it is absolutely impossible for him to have written all this stuff. The way it works in the Vatican is, these -- most of these documents are farmed out to Vatican agencies.

RODGERS (on camera): So even as the pope lies in hospital, his Vatican remains an entity unto itself, unlike any other, where myth and reality, mortality and immortality, run together, and sometimes are hard to distinguish.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: When the pope was rushed to the hospital back on the first of February, we called on Father Thomas Reese for his knowledge of the inner workings of the Vatican and on the pope. Father Reese is the editor in chief of the Catholic weekly magazine "America," author of a book on the Vatican, and a CNN Vatican analyst. A lot of titles. He's back with us tonight.

It's nice to see you under, again, difficult conditions.

If you listened to Walter's piece, he talks about -- it's not fair to say that the pope, at this point in his life, is a figurehead, but it is fair to say that the day-to-day stuff is dealt with by others?

FR. THOMAS J. REESE, S.J., CNN PAPAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, you know, as a young pope, he was very energetic. I mean, he wrote his own encyclicals, he traveled all over the world, he had great stamina, great energy, a photographic memory. You know, he would meet with people and dialogue and talk about issues.

You know, he's older now. He's slowed down, and he can't do the things that he used to be able to do.

BROWN: So but he has gathered around him people who know how he thinks and what he believes is correct. But there are certain things that only a pope can do, fair?

REESE: Absolutely. You're right. I mean, he's had all these years to gather around people he trusts, people who understand him, people who know the way he thinks. You know, and like anybody at the head of a huge organization, things come to him, and he says, Well, you know, is this OK?

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: Should I sign it? BROWN: Yes.

REESE: You know, you can't read every piece of paper that...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... comes across your desk. So he has confidence in certain people, like Cardinal Sodano who's the secretary of state, who's really the number two man there, Cardinal Ratzinger, who's his adviser on doctrinal issues. So, you know, these are people he trusts.

BROWN: Will this discussion, which has kind of demystifying the pope, will this be uncomfortable for some people, do you think, to think about, that there are -- that he doesn't make every decision, and...

REESE: Well, I mean, we and -- you know, we Catholics, at least any of us who know anything about the history of the church, know that we're a very human institution. You know, we were founded by Christ...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... but then he left...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... and then put us in charge. And, you know, and the church is run by human beings.

Now, we've been very lucky with some outstanding popes in -- at the 20th century, and now with Pope John Paul into the 21st century. Really gifted, bright, good, holy people. You know, in our history, we've had some real losers.

So, you know, we're doing very well these days.

BROWN: It's been, I think, six centuries since a pope has resigned, something like that.

REESE: Yes, the last pope that resigned was Gregory XII, who resigned almost 600 years ago. It was a deal that was worked out to end the great Western schism. And he was asked to resign by the Council of Constance, and he did. There were three popes running around at the time, and he resigned, and they were able to bring the church back into unity, and they elected a new pope.

BROWN: Do you think there are -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- are there discussions like that, or are people thinking about things like that within the church?

REESE: Well, we face a new problem today, you know, the fact that modern medicine...

BROWN: Yes. REESE: ... can keep people...

BROWN: It's exactly...

REESE: ... alive...

BROWN: ... what I was thinking.

REESE: I mean, you know...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... they can keep people alive physically when -- you know, long after they're able to do a job, you know...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... when their mind can function. And sooner or later, we're going to have to face that reality in the Catholic Church. And I think we're going to have to recognize that, yes, someday probably in this century, a pope is going to have to be allowed to resign.

BROWN: Let me ask you one more question. How would you like non-Catholics to think about moments like this?

REESE: Well, I think we as Catholics are very moved and comforted by the support we feel from Protestants, from Jews, from...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... other religious people all over the world, who look to the Holy Father, see him as an admirable holy man, and are praying with us, and concerned with us. And I find that very comforting. And it shows how far we've moved. You know, a few hundred years ago, 200 years ago, we were fighting each other. Now...

BROWN: Yes.

REESE: ... you know, we're all standing in vigil at the pope's bedside.

BROWN: I mean, it, there is that. I mean, that, to me, is not overstatement. I think people, for -- throw a cliche in here, people of goodwill sort of understand that this is a moment for everyone to stop and reflect a little bit on a rather extraordinary papacy, and pray or wish or whatever one does nothing but good.

REESE: Yes. Well, we as Christians, of course, you know, look on death not as an end.

BROWN: Right.

REESE: It is a door that opens into new life. And this pope has spent his whole life teaching us how to live. Well, he's spending the last, what, who knows how many months of his life teaching us how to face death. BROWN: Well, let's hope that he has a long time yet to do the teaching.

It's nice to see you. We see you on difficult days. Good to see you.

REESE: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you.

We have much more coming up in this hour of NEWSNIGHT, starting with young drivers and the dangers they face.

A new study proves that the only way to keep teenage drivers from dying is to keep them off the road.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTURO BETANCOURT, VICTIM'S FATHER: I've been told by hundreds of parents, you did everything right. Is my daughter alive? No. I did everything right, and it still didn't save her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Bowling and dollars. What young workers really think about Social Security and the president's plan to change it.

And life imitating art.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you drink and dial?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't drink and dial, did you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The little movie that found its audience and breathed new life into wine country.

From Northern California to New York City and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: New York City on a snowy, blizzardy February night. That's Central Park. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) little bit to "The Gates." There they are. From here, it looks sort of nice. It's not nice out.

The ethics of organ transplants now. In this case, a man in need of a kidney. Unlike other organs, you can get a kidney from a living donor. This is a story about how a man in need found a willing donor, only to find him apparently taken away.

From Florida tonight, CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time in a long time, Alex Crionas had reason to celebrate. He needed a kidney, and after one friend backed out of an offer to help...

ALEX CRIONAS: I knew that those things could happen.

CANDIOTTI: Just last month, another friend, professional comedian Patrick Garrity, stepped in.

PATRICK GARRITY, FRIEND: If I was in that situation, I would want a friend to be able to help me out.

CANDIOTTI: Not only was he willing to help out, he could.

CRIONAS: He was tissue type and found to be compatible with me, so we were a match.

CANDIOTTI: But little did Alex Crionas know that a Web site he set up nearly two years ago would come back to haunt him. On the Web site, he wrote about his disease and his need for a donor.

CRIONAS: People aren't really interested in statistics, they're touched by personal stories, and I had a story to tell.

CANDIOTTI: A story about being on dialysis at least three times a week, four hours a day. He says he did not offer to buy a kidney.

CRIONAS: I don't have any money, especially to pay for an organ.

CANDIOTTI: And, in fact, he met Garrity through friends, not the Internet. But when a Tampa transplant institute, LifeLink, discovered the Web site, it sent a letter to Crionas saying that he would not be allowed a new kidney, even his friend's kidney, because of his Internet activities. The letter stated that the American Society of Transplant Surgeons and LifeLink are strongly opposed to the solicitation of organ donors through Web sites.

CRIONAS: I had to reread it, and I was numb.

CANDIOTTI: LifeLink said that the Web site gave Crionas an unfair advantage over others.

RUTH BELL, LIFELINK: Not everyone has access or the means to own a computer. Ethically speaking, how does that then impact those patients, who may or may not be just as sick, on the waiting list?

RUTH BELL, LIFELINK: If they had said to me, Listen, you have a Web site, and we can't proceed unless you take it down, I would have taken it down. I'm not going to sacrifice my life for my personal beliefs.

CANDIOTTI: But for now, LifeLink has not changed its position, and Alex Crionas will have to keep on waiting.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: New chapter in the battle over abortion and the laws being written in the state of Kansas. In fact, this fight has been going on in secret since last fall. The state attorney general there is seeking information on 90 women and girls who have had abortions at two Kansas clinics. The lower court said he could have them, the detailed information. The state supreme court so far has not agreed.

The attorney general joins us in a moment.

First, the background from CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since last October, the Kansas attorney general has been trying to obtain the names and medical records of some 90 women and girls who had abortions in the state, as part of a criminal investigation, he says, into possible sex with minors, or illegal late-term abortions.

Two abortion clinics are fighting Attorney General Phil Kline in court, arguing that releasing a patient's complete medical records could violate constitutional guarantees of privacy. Kline insists he's just enforcing the law.

PHILL KLINE, KANSAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: And as the state's chief law enforcement official, it is my obligation to investigate child rape in order to protect Kansas children.

FREED: The effort to obtain the records had been kept secret until this week, when details came to light in a legal brief filed by attorneys for the clinics. State lawmakers are lining up on both sides.

PAUL DAVIS (D), KANSAS STATE SENATOR: I think there are more serious issues that the attorney general needs to be directing his attention to. And, you know, I think we need an attorney general, not an abortion general.

FREED: Others believe the end justifies the means, if it means uncovering any sex crimes committed against children.

PHILLIP JOURNEY (R), KANSAS STATE SENATOR: The state's interest outweighs the privacy interest when there's probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.

FREED: The Associated Press reports the medical records in question could reveal, among other things, the patient's name, medical history, details of her sex life, birth control practices, and psychological profile.

Jonathan Freed, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: The man at the center of this dispute, as you've heard, is the Kansas attorney general, Phill Kline. And we spoke to General Kline earlier this evening.

Why has this been secret?

KLINE: Well, in criminal investigations typically, to protect the privacy of all involved, are not something you reveal, and also to protect the integrity of the investigation. You see, it's vitally important to know that before you charge anybody, and even when you charge, everybody's presumed innocent. So it's just a policy I have in not revealing investigations.

BROWN: So the 90 women whose records you are now seeking aren't entitled to know that the state of Kansas is wanting to see their records?

KLINE: Well, there's a couple of things regarding that. First of all, these records are sought through a district court subpoena. And a district court does not act unless it sees, in the evidence presented to it, that there's probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed. And then it issues the subpoena to obtain evidence of that crime.

And so it's fairly routine. This happens across America every day, where investigators get subpoenas for information that's not necessarily revealed.

BROWN: Well, look, I mean, we're both big boys here. It is not fairly routine, in Kansas or anywhere else in America, for the state to go into clinics to seek the sex histories of patients. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Whether it's unprecedented, I wouldn't say. But it's not routine.

KLINE: Well, it's not the sex history of the patients that is sought. Here's what not routine. Public records in Kansas, and I can speak about the public records and not the specifics of the investigation, but public records show in the year 2003 alone, 78 children, 14 years of age and younger, have had abortions in Kansas.

Now, in Kansas, when a 10- or 11- or 12-year-old is pregnant, that is called rape. And we have an obligation in law enforcement to investigate child rapes, so we can prevent future rape, and actually bring the predator to justice.

And so the child's privacy is protected. You never see the victim, the name of the victim, the child victim, in the paper. It's perfectly protected in this process.

But I'll tell you what, there's two things that child predators want, access to children, and secrecy. And I'm bound and determined not to give them either.

BROWN: The state supreme court has yet to allow this to take place. KLINE: Correct. The district court has issued a subpoena. Next week, we will file our brief, and in our brief, you will see the extraordinary steps the district court has taken to protect the child's privacy. And the supreme court will consider all of that and issue some kind of a ruling.

BROWN: The way this is being perceived, fairly or not, is that this really has more to do with abortion politics than it has to do with anything. Are you...

KLINE: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

BROWN: ... are you prepared to say to me and to people who are watching here that this isn't about abortion politics, this isn't about 22-week abortions, 24-week abortions, mother's health, that this is just about children who may have been sexually abused?

KLINE: Well, this is about the law. And Kansas law prohibits raping a child. Kansas law requires clinics to report when they know that children have been raped. Kansas law does not allow late-term abortion unless there is substantial likelihood of severe and irreversible damage to a major bodily function of the mother.

That's the law. And my job, as the chief law enforcement officer, is to enforce the law. It's that simple. I will not go beyond the law, but I will not ignore violations of the law.

BROWN: Well, we look forward to the brief that your side files, and we'll see how the court in Kansas handles this. And I suspect beyond. These things have a way of working their way through all sorts of courts.

It's nice to meet you, sir. We appreciate your time.

KLINE: I appreciate your time, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, sir.

Phill Kline, the attorney general in the state of Kansas.

Coming up on the program, what young Americans are saying about things that may seem a long way off, Social Security, private accounts, and their retirement.

And the tragic story behind these dramatic pictures, the tsunami revisited.

From around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: At the risk of making this overly personal, there are no words scarier in the language for the father of a 16-year-old than, hey, dad, I'm old enough to drive. Kids have car accidents. The good news tonight is that fewer of them are dying, a lot fewer over the last decade. The bad news is, it isn't because they're any less dangerous behind the wheel.

The story from CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Arturo Betancourt was so proud of his daughter. Alicia (ph) was sensitive, a talented artist. He had asked so many questions that night, been so careful.

DR. ARTURO BETANCOURT, VICTIM'S FATHER: I'd been told by hundreds of parents, You did everything right. Is my daughter alive? No. I did everything right. It still didn't save her.

FRANKEN: She was the passenger in a car driven by another 16- year-old who police said was speeding and lost control. Alicia was killed instantly.

BETANCOURT: I'm angry at the driver. He was doing something for which he was not prepared. And the fact that my daughter is dead is a result of his negligence.

FRANKEN: There are aggressive efforts to address the risk-taking immaturity of 16-year-olds, and innovative teaching aids, an insurance company tape, for instance, put microcameras into cars to show teenagers who thought they were driving sensibly taking risks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I want people to feel safe. Because, I mean, when someone's in your car, their life is in your hands.

FRANKEN: In fact, a study by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety shows a full 26 percent drop in the rate of 16-year-old traffic deaths over 10 years.

(on camera): One reason, there are fewer 16-year-old drivers. Most states have imposed restrictions on their licenses. Maryland is considering limitations at first on nighttime driving, the number of teenaged passengers, and the use of cell phones.

SAMANTHA MILLER, 12TH GRADER: I think all those things can be a distraction. You're new, when you're a new driver, you're still learning the rules of the road.

FRANKEN: Alicia Betancourt will never get that chance.

BETANCOURT: One of the things that we mourn is, what would have happened with her life? What was she going to do? What would she have accomplished?

FRANKEN: Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Two months ago this weekend, the tsunami struck South Asia, leaving tens of thousands of broken families in its path. The lucky ones, if you can call them that, were able to recover their loved one's bodies. Many others were left with no trace at all of their loss, the grief made worse by the uncertainty.

With so much time passed, it would be easy to give up hope of learning what happened in those final moments. Three brothers in Canada almost had, and then the pictures arrived.

Here is CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They knew their parents were there when the tsunami hit. And days later, the Knill brothers of Vancouver received the awful confirmation. Their mother, Jackie, and their father, John, had perished in the waters.

CHRISTIAN KNILL, OLDEST SON: So there was a bit of hope, but, you know, now it's gone.

BUCKLEY (on camera): And like so many other loved ones of the victims, they were left with the question, How did they die?

(voice-over): And then this month, it was as if John and Jackie Knill spoke to their boys through these pictures that they apparently snapped as the tsunami roared ashore. The beach, the water suddenly recedes. People are curious. Then, a wave in the distance. It's getting closer. Some start to run. The water is churning. And then it's upon them.

A final shot shows the wave hitting the beach.

PATRICK KNILL, MIDDLE SON: They were probably thinking, OK, let's try to get this, so if, by chance, it does get to somebody, they'll be able to see what happened, you know? And I know they were together, because they were always together.

BUCKLEY: The brothers knew, because other shots showed their parents enjoying their vacation, and because this man, Christian Pilet, a missionary from Seattle, was determined to find out who the couple was when he and a colleague found a smashed-up digital camera amid debris in the disaster zone.

CHRISTIAN PILET, FOUND THE KNILLS' CAMERA: I said, Well, you know, my idea was, We'll just junk it, we don't need it. And he said, Oh, hold on. And he pulls out the compact flash. And he says, You never know, the little card might have recorded something.

BUCKLEY: They popped it into their laptop, and up came the images.

But who were these people in the images? They checked embassies, to no avail. When Pilet returned to Seattle, he and his wife searched Internet sites for the missing.

Almost immediately, they found the Knills. PILET: We were glad to be able to give them this back to them. If anything, it's a gift to the sons from their parents.

BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, Vancouver, British Columbia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, in California wine country, walking a straight line between life and art.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

PAUL GIAMATTI, ACTOR: We should do every one of them.

THOMAS HADEN CHURCH, ACTOR: Wow. When do we drink it?

GIAMATTI: Now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: It may not be to your taste, but the movie "Sideways" has clearly found its audience. Jeff Greenfield with that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Bush has wrapped up his trip to Europe. He met with Russian President Vladimir Putin earlier today in Slovakia. The president expressed his concerns that Russia's young democracy is losing ground, according to the White House. He cited restrictions on freedom of the press and crackdowns against Mr. Putin's political opponents.

The Russian president publicly reaffirmed Russia's commitment to democracy. The two leaders agreed that Iran and North Korea should not possess nuclear weapons.

The beauty of youth is that risk doesn't seem that risky. You have all those years in front of you to get back on your feet. So it is with the fight so Social Security and the changes the president proposes. There's no question his idea of personal accounts presents more personal risk, as well as the potential for greater reward. Where you line up on that may be influenced as much by your age as your politics.

Here's CNN's Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Do younger workers really think much about their retirement? We were skeptical. So, we caught up with some at a bowling alley, one of those funky, trendy bowling alleys where you won't find Homer Simpson, but you will find a lot of young people, like this 32-year-old Washington, D.C., man starting a career in Web site design and a family. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife, we have been married for a year and just kind of getting our life started. So, we definitely have to think about these things. It's suddenly become important to us.

SCHNEIDER: Polls show, the younger you are, the more you tend to like the idea of personal retirement accounts. Older workers say, no way. They dependent on Social Security. Younger workers say, way by a small majority. But they're more supportive than any other age group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call me a cynic, but I never spend much time thinking about Social Security as a part of my retirement.

SCHNEIDER: Cynic? Listen to this young health care recruiter who moved to the Washington area from Iowa looking for career opportunities.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, I'm paying for older people to retire, but, by the time that I am going to retire, I'm not going to have any money (INAUDIBLE) Social Security.

SCHNEIDER: Her theory of what's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby boomers are getting older. There's a lot more of them than there is of us. It's just a matter of time when, you know, Social Security is just going to go all to them.

SCHNEIDER: This 35-year-old who works for a small company spoke for many bowlers that night when he said, we want to control our own money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the ones working for the money. Why can't we handle it ourselves?

SCHNEIDER (on camera): It's like bowling. You control your money like you control your ball.

(voice-over): You roll it and, with some skill, you get a strike, or at least a spare, financial security. I can do that, young people say. But a lot of people throw gutter balls. What happens to them? Young people care about that, too. That's their big problem with President Bush's plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry about those that won't know what to do with their money, because I think they'll end up being left out in the cold and their money will be squandered.

SCHNEIDER: But you won't scare these young workers by telling them personal accounts are risky because, as this tech support specialist from Boston put it, Social Security is just as risky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it right now, it is a risk. You probably won't even get the money when you retire. So, it probably won't be any different.

SCHNEIDER: President Bush is targeting his Social Security message at young people like these and hoping for a strike.

Bill Schneider, CNN, Bethesda, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the movie that gave merlot a bad name and the California wine country a big boost.

And later in the program, morning papers, news the old-fashioned way.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: If merlot could talk, we're sure it would be outraged; 2004 was a lousy year for the unassuming wine, which was, for all purposes, slandered big time on the big screen. Sure, the sucker punch came by way of fictional characters in the movie "Sideways," but if you have any doubt about the power of art to imitate life, take a look and feel the pain of the poor merlot.

Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT")

CLARK GABLE, ACTOR: If you will notice, the coat came first, then the tie, then the shirt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): When moviegoers in the 1930 saw that matinee idol Clark Gable didn't wear a undershirt, sales of that garment plummeted. When the new century was dawning, countless fans of "Sex and the City" turned to cosmopolitans for their thirst and Manolo Blahniks for their feet..

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SEX AND THE CITY")

SARAH JESSICA PARKER, ACTRESS: Well, these are pretty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: And, now:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: If anybody orders merlot, I'm leaving. I am not drinking any merlot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And no merlots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No merlots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wouldn't drink merlot for anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No (EXPLETIVE DELETED) merlot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No merlot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No merlot.

GREENFIELD (on camera): If you're looking for a dramatic example of life imitating art, then come here to the wine country north of Santa Barbara, California, setting for the Oscar-nominated movie "Sideways." The film has triggered a wave of pilgrims who have come here searching for the wine so extravagantly praised in the movie and also searching for the experience of the film itself.

(voice-over): Kathy Janega-Dykes who runs a Santa Barbara Visitors Bureau, says they ran clear through the 10,000 maps they prepared for the tourists.

KATHY JANEGA-DYKES, SANTA BARBARA VISITORS BUREAU: So, we basically have all of the restaurants and the wineries that are featured in the movie, so people are taking this map and they're going up to the valley on their own tour.

GREENFIELD: And just about every day, tours like this wine adventure tour head for the settings where the movie was filmed, often echoing lines from the movie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

HADEN CHURCH: Did you drink and dial?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't drink and dial, did you?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: At the Sanford Winery in Buellton, tasting room manager Chris Burroughs, who plays himself in the movie, has heard the overwrought vocabulary of wine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: Asparagus and...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: Spill over into real life.

CHRIS BURROUGHS, SANFORD WINERY: Our scene at Sanford involves the Miles character going totally overblown in these wine descriptions and using phrases like asparagus and stuff. And we're hearing that now.

GREENFIELD: At the Los Olivos Cafe where Miles, Jack, Stephanie and Maya share a feast, owner Sam Marmorstein is floored by the surge in business and by the customer's eagerness to imitate the movie.

SAM MARMORSTEIN, OWNER, LOS OLIVOS CAFE: We like to sit at the table That they sat at. We like to drink the wines they drank. And it's just becoming like a cult kind of thing.

GREENFIELD: At the Hitching Post, owner Frank Ostini is happily staggered by the crowds and what they're looking for.

FRANK OSTINI, HITCHING POST: Well, everyone asks for Maya. Our answer to them now is, she's got the weekend off and up at the Big Sur with Miles.

GREENFIELD: There is one puzzling aspect to the fascination with "Sideways." Given the way Miles and Jack behave in the movie, why would anybody want to emulate those guys?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

GIAMATTI: What the hell is wrong with you? Please just shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD (voice-over): Miles is a failed writer who steals from his mother, flies into rages. Jack is a womanizing, washed-up actor whose life is literally a wreck.

BURROUGHS: He's got these amazingly flawed individuals that somehow you end up caring, whether you like them or not, you kind of are, come on, guys, please, do something good here.

GREENFIELD: While some longtime residents worry that the crowds and the attention may change the bucolic nature of this wine country, others say the movie has in fact captured what they love about wine.

Fess Parker, who gained fame half a century ago as TV's Davy Crockett, owns a hotel and a winery in Los Olivos.

FESS PARKER, ACTOR: I find that people who drink wine, smile a lot, and laugh a lot, become friends quicker.

GREENFIELD: Doug Margerum (ph) has owned a wine store and restaurant in Santa Barbara for almost 25 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

VIRGINIA MADSEN, ACTRESS: Because a bottle of wine is actually alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She spoke eloquently about how wine is a part of her life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SIDEWAYS")

MADSEN: Constantly evolving and gaining complexity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a very much a part of my life and a lot of people who live up here's life.

GREENFIELD: Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Santa Barbara, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, uncork a bottle of wine.

Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world.

I don't know if we have ever done "Newsday" from Long Island, but we will tonight. And it gets the opening shot here. "Serene After Surgery." I like the picture. This was taken last month. "Pope Undergoes Tracheotomy After Breathing Problems Return." That's just a -- it's a sweet picture, to me.

"The Dallas Morning News." "Frail Pope Serene After Surgery to Aid Breathing" is the major story. I like this one down here, their take on the Bush/Putin meeting today. Wouldn't you really like to know what those meetings are like, how frank they really are? And "Bush/Putin Duel Over Democracy. Limit on Nukes OKed, But Goodwill Display Doesn't Hide Tensions."

"The Philadelphia Inquirer. "Pope Has Tracheotomy" is the lead. People praying is the picture. But I didn't know the Lynn Swann was political. "Campaigning Swann's Way." I think you'll -- when you get the paper tomorrow, they'll put something in there, OK" "The Ex- Steeler Carefully Tests GOP Gubernatorial Bid in the state of Pennsylvania."

"The Detroit Free Press." Ratings Let More Raunch Reach Teens." Have they taken a look at MTV lately?

OK, let's -- the weather for tomorrow in Chicago, "pouty."

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 a.m. tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you. Come back and see us 10:00 tomorrow night. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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