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Lebanese Prime Minister and his Government Resign; Huge Bombing in Iraq; Interview With Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit

Aired February 28, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Unfolding this hour on NEWS FROM CNN, the deadliest attack yet for insurgents killing Iraqis. A suicide car bomber leaving at least 125 people dead, even more wounded. We'll go live to Baghdad.
And as we just saw here live on CNN, we'll be in Beirut, where a government has now fallen. Thousands of people are calling for Syria to get out. We'll go live to Beirut momentarily.

And in this country, the entertainer Michael Jackson and the child molestation case against him. Opening statements finally under way in his long-awaited trial. We're live from Santa Maria, California.

First, some other headlines "Now in the News."

The Vatican says Pope John Paul II is recovering well. Yesterday's appearance at his hospital window seemed to indicate as much. An official statement released today says the pope has begun breathing and voice therapy in the wake of his tracheotomy.

A multibillion-dollar buyout. Federated Department Stores has agreed to purchase its rival, May Department Stores, for about $11 billion. The deal brings together such names as Bloomingdale's, Macy's, Lord & Taylor and Marshall Field's. The combined company would be the third largest retailer in the country behind Wal-Mart and Sears.

Certainly not spring yet. A late winter storm is dumping snow on the East Coast from North Carolina to New England. Up to eight inches already has fallen in some areas. More in the forecast.

Among the more popular stories this hour on cnn.com, police had to be called in to keep the peace at the home once shared by Scott and Laci Peterson. Scott Peterson's family reportedly got into an argument with Laci Peterson's mother, Sharon Rocha. The confrontation happened this weekend as Scott Peterson's family hauled furniture and other belongings from the couple's vacant house.

And another story with lots of hits on the Web, the BTK killings in Kansas. An arrest is made, but there are still plenty of unanswered questions. A live update, by the way, from Kansas coming up this hour on NEWS FROM CNN.

Up first, breaking news out of Lebanon, a country right now without a government. Just minutes ago, Lebanon's prime minister resigned and said everyone in his administration was stepping down as well. Our senior international correspondent Brent Sadler standing by in Beirut with more on this breaking story.

Brent, explain to our viewers why this is so significant.

BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, very dramatic developments here in the past few minutes. Behind me you see there a throng of demonstrators. If we just zoom in behind me, we can take a look at these live pictures.

Within the past few minutes, these people have just heard that the Lebanese government has resigned, the Lebanese government that was strongly backed by Syria. Syria under tremendous international pressure, led by the United States and France, to force Syria to withdraw its troops from Lebanon and to force Syria to remove its military intelligence network, and to stop meddling in Lebanese political affairs.

Pressure has been building in the two weeks inside Lebanon since the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister Rafik Hariri, whose tomb lies in Martyr's Square, where you see a sea of Lebanese flags and ecstatic supporters of the opposition who've been trying to use people power to break the will of the pro-Syrian government here. They weren't expecting it to crack as soon as it has. There was supposed to be a vote of no confidence. That did not take place.

Pressure on the streets. Pressure on the international level certainly coming to bear on the Lebanese authorities, very close allies of Syria.

The question is, what now fills this political vacuum? And what moves does Syria now take in terms of its military presence in this country as they ratchet, the pressure is turned up by the U.S. administration and Europe -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And this opposition to the Syrian involvement in Lebanon, Brent, it's across sectarian, ethnic, religious divides in Lebanon. It's sort of across the board, isn't it?

SADLER: That's right, Wolf. This has seen an unprecedented unifying of political parties and groups that were during the civil war years here at each other's throats, literally.

The assassination of Hariri has galvanized the opposition in a way we have not seen before. And they have been claiming for days to have the popular support of the majority of the Lebanese. No way of telling whether or not that's true. But the effect of this, combined with international pressure, has now forced its government to resign.

What will Syria now do? Will it withdraw its troops from Lebanon before the elections in May here, as demanded by the U.S. administration? Or will there be a standoff?

Security forces have tried to prevent this demonstration taking place today in the event the opposition went through the security cordon here, assembled in Martyr's Square, and continued with these protests that have now brought, if you like, a democracy movement for freedom, say opposition leaders, to break the back of what they say was a staunchly pro-Syrian government. Syria itself, they say, been for decades under one-man rule -- Wolf.

BLITZER: One final question, Brent, before I let you go. Emil Lahoud, the president of Lebanon, widely seen by his critics as what they call a puppet of the Damascus regime, what happens to him?

SADLER: Well, President Emil Lahoud remains the head of state. And this will be the interesting next phase: what government will Emil Lahoud be able to select? How much influence will Syria still have, if at all, on the formation of a new government? This is now brand- new territory for the Lebanese, and brand-new territory for the Syrians to step into, given the dramatic change in circumstances and the resignation of this government just a very short time ago -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Brent Sadler with breaking news in Beirut.

The government there has fallen. The prime minister, Omar Karami, has stepped down. You see people power on the streets of Beirut. We'll get back there as developments unfold.

Syria has from the start denied any involvement in the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, or with Friday night's terror attack on a night spot in Tel Aviv. Israel, though, is pointing the finger directly at Damascus, saying it played a role by giving shelter to leaders of the Palestinian group Islamic Jihad.

Israel believes that group ordered the bombing, and indeed there was a statement from that Damascus-based office of Islamic Jihad claiming responsibility for the terror attack. Yesterday, though, our CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Syrian cabinet minister, Buthaina Shaaban, told me, and let me quote specifically, "Syria has never carried out a terrorist attack against anyone." That's what she said.

Despite all the rhetoric, the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, says he thinks the United States may eventually attack his country. In an interview with Italy's "Republica" newspaper, he said -- let me quote again -- "If you ask me if I'm expecting an armed attack, I've seen it coming since the end of the war in Iraq." That's a direct quote.

President Assad added he does not think an attack is necessarily imminent. No comment from the White House.

Now let's move on to the deadliest single insurgent attack since the U.S.-led invasion almost two years ago. A suicide attacker drove a huge car bomb into a group of Iraqi police recruits. And at this hour, the number of deaths listed at 125 or higher, with even more people wounded.

Let's go to Baghdad. CNN's Nic Robertson standing by with details -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the total of those wounded is believed to be over 200 at this time. The attack occurred early in the morning at 9:30, just as those police recruits were gathering outside that medical center in the town of Hilla, about 60 miles south of Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Clothes, shoes and blood, a lot of blood, the aftermath of Iraq's deadliest suicide bombing since the fall of Saddam almost two years ago. According to Iraqi police, the bomber drove a vehicle packed with explosives into a line of police recruits as they waited outside a medical center in Hilla for health checks.

Amar Moussa (ph) was an eyewitness. "People were lining up for medical checks to become policemen," he says. "A car came from that direction and exploded, killing more than 50 people, more than you would expect." The death toll particularly high, officials say, as the blast occurred at 9:30 in the morning, ripping through a crowded adjacent market.

The last day as deadly as this occurred in February 2004 when multiple attacks in Karbala and Baghdad during the Shiite festival of Ashoura claimed at least 141 lives. In recent weeks and months, Iraqi police recruits have borne the brunt of insurgent attacks. Many dozens killed as they've waited at recruitment offices in the center and north of Iraq while being ambushed in convoys. Both Iraqi and U.S. officials insist recruitment has not been impacted so far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have had no slowdown in our recruiting efforts either for the Iraqi police or the Iraqi army. In fact, we have more recruits than we can push through the academies and train at this time.

ROBERTSON: As hospitals in Hilla began to fill with the dead and wounded, the scale of this attack seems likely to prompt tough questioning among Iraqi politicians on how to protect security service personnel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And that's a debate that's been going on for quite some time here. A lot of it often focuses on the amount of infiltration that the insurgency has within the security forces here, which on occasion does seem to give the insurgency some prior knowledge of events or the timings of events, at least, that enable them to make some quite deadly attacks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What kind of city is Hilla, Nic? I assume you've been there. Is it a prominently Shiite-Sunni? What kind of city is it? And give us the likely impact of this kind of horrible terror attack on the effort to form the new government in Iraq.

ROBERTSON: Well, much of Hilla is quite a modern city. It's a city that's on one of the main highways to the south. It's quite a sprawling area. Many hundreds of thousands of people live there. It is, if you will, at the sort of southern edge of the Sunni Triangle. It's in an intensely tribal area where there's been a lot of conflict over the last year and a half, particularly hijackings on the road, kidnappings on the highways. Shoot-outs with police regularly happen in Hilla, often numbers of bodies turn up.

Policemen, we're told, other security force bodies turn up on the streets and in the area of Hilla. So it has been a very volatile area. That area just south of Baghdad, the sort of triangle of death that they talk about just south of Baghdad, Hilla is at the southern apex of that.

And it's an area where the police have had multiple raids we've heard about over months. It's an area that's been -- that there have been multiple efforts to try and calm it. But it still seems to be an area at least where the insurgents can still get into and carry out attacks of this scale -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson reporting for us on this bloody, bloody day in Iraq. Thank you, Nic, very much.

Much more coverage coming up on all of these stories. Also, we're following Medicare and Social Security, just two of the topics being discussed in Washington today.

The president has been meeting with the nation's governors. Coming up, I'll speak live with Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt, as well as Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius about the president's latest plans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family is in a bewildered stage totally, trying to make sense and to understand what is happening in their lives right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The stunning arrest of a suspect in the BTK killings in Kansas. Reaction from the people closest to the suspect, Dennis Rader.

And the long-awaited opening statements in Michael Jackson's child molestation trial now under way in California.

You're watching NEWS FROM CNN, and we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You're looking at live pictures. A huge demonstration on the streets of Beirut, elsewhere in Lebanon, as well, demonstration. Some are calling it people power, forcing the Lebanese Prime Minister Omar Karami and his government to step down, to resign today, in the face of escalating widespread opposition to Syria's occupation of parts of Lebanon.

We're watching this story for you. We'll continue to go back to Lebanon. Dramatic developments in Lebanon unfolding even as we speak.

Other developments involving the Middle East, as well. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice right now on her way to London for an important meeting on Middle East peacemaking, organized by the British prime minister, Tony Blair. Diplomats hope it will help get peace talks off the ground and lead to more aid to the Palestinians. Israel not attending this meeting, but supporting the concept of this meeting.

Foreign ministers from more than 20 other countries are participating, including Ahmed Abul Gheit, the foreign minister of Egypt. He's joining us now live from London.

Mr. Minister, thanks very much for joining us.

Before we get to the subject of London, I'm interested in your thoughts on Lebanon right now, Egypt's position. Does Egypt want Syria to completely pull out its military and intelligence service -- services forces from Lebanon immediately?

AHMED ABUL GHEIT, FOREIGN MINISTER OF EGYPT: Look, we have had the Syrian foreign minister coming to Cairo yesterday, and he met the president, and he met me, and we have had discussions. The issue is how to lead Syria and Lebanon where we would be implementing 1559, which is the U.N. Security Council resolution, as well as the Taif Agreement.

There we have to work together in order to allow the Syrians to have an orderly phased-out withdrawal of Syrian forces, according to the Taif Agreement, as well as the requirements of 1559. So, yes, the Egyptian position is that we have to find a settlement for that -- for that situation whereby eventually Syrian forces will be evacuating Lebanon.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Minister the Taif Agreement was way back in the '80s, and Syria has refused to leave all these years since then. We're approaching 15, 20 years of Syrian military occupation of Lebanon.

When you say eventually, how much of a timetable should it be, a matter of days, weeks, months, or more years for the Syrians to pull out?

GHEIT: Well, that is an issue to be discussed, and I'm sure that within the requirements of 1559 and the needs of responding to that -- to that resolution we will be reaching that point, where -- where the Syrians and the Lebanese, with the help of the United Nations, would be reaching that point, where they will be withdrawing and phasing out of -- phasing their forces out of Lebanon. Beyond this, I cannot give you a timeline.

BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about the dramatic announcement from your president, President Hosni Mubarak, to call for real elections in which there would be an opposition candidate, more than one candidate, running for president. Some of the skeptics, some of the critics saying they'll believe it when they see it. How sincere, how likely is it that...

GHEIT: Then they will be seeing it.

BLITZER: All right. So I assume President Mubarak, who's going to run for re-election, there will be a candidate, or more than one candidate who will challenge him? Is that right?

GHEIT: That is if the president decides to go for the contest, and then some other people would be putting their names on the ballot. Then it would be so.

The Egyptian parliament is right now deliberating on the -- on the sort of the norms and the way it will be conducted. And I'm sure that within the next two to three months we would have reached that point where measures would have been agreed on how to conduct elections in October.

BLITZER: So there will be real elections, democratic elections in Egypt with an opposition, with more than just one candidate. That's a very potentially positive development. But at the same time, as you know, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice canceled a visit to Egypt scheduled for the coming days because of the arrest of an opposition leader, Ayman Nour, to protest the arrest of this political figure in Egypt. That sends obviously the exact opposite signal.

GHEIT: Let me -- let me put the issue in order. The secretary did not cancel a visit to Egypt. The secretary has postponed a visit to the region.

The secretary was supposed to have visited Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and possibly Iraq. So she decided to, for reasons related to the secretary herself, decided to postpone, not cancel.

So Egypt was amongst those countries that were ready to receive her, then she postponed. But beyond this, I would not give it any (UNINTELLIGIBLE) connotation. That is one.

Two, the issue of...

BLITZER: But you know -- let me interrupt -- Mr. Minister, let me interrupt, with all due respect. U.S. officials are making it clear that they are deeply concerned about the arrest of Ayman Nour, the opposition political figure in Egypt, and they wanted to underscore that irritation with the decision of your government to arrest him.

GHEIT: Well, we are also irritated by that continuous reference. We have told the Americans when I visited last week -- I visited Washington last week, and on every level I said the following: this is an Egyptian internal situation.

There is a crime committed. There is a criminal investigation conducted. The attorney general of Egypt is the only and the soul responsible figure to decide on the issue. And the issue will be decided.

It might be dropped, as is the case, it might be put to a court. That will come in due time.

BLITZER: Let me get your reaction to the Friday night terror attack on that night club in Tel Aviv. Prime Minister Sharon directly implicating Syria because of the statement released by Islamic Jihad in Damascus that they were responsible for organizing that attack.

What do you -- what is your assessment now? What happens next?

GHEIT: Well, the foreign minister of Syria was in Cairo yesterday, and he publicly denied that Syria has -- well, the Palestinian president also yesterday or the day before said -- alluded to the possibility of a third party. I met him only half an hour ago, the Palestinian president. He says, "I have to carry out an investigation."

I'm not allowed to carry out the investigation because the Palestinian investigators are not allowed to enter into the situation where the events was initiated from. Then we have to keep working, all of us together.

We have to restrain our activities, Palestinians and Israelis, our actions. And at the same time, to work together to collaborate in order to identify who is responsible and who is doing this for that process.

The political process is just being initiated. And there has been understandings and chairmanship (ph) between Israelis and Palestinians. These understandings have to be implemented, and we have to give them the chance and the opportunity to implement them. Those who are doing this are trying to interrupt the process, and we should not allow them to do so.

BLITZER: Ahmed Abul Gheit is the foreign minister of Egypt. Mr. Minister, welcome to CNN. Thanks very much for spending a few moments with us. Good luck in London at this conference.

GHEIT: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Here in Washington, President Bush is getting an earful from the nation's governors. They're troubled by his plans to slash spending for Medicaid, the government health care program for the poor. States say costs are going through the roof as more and more people sign up.

Joining us now from the White House, the Health and Human Services secretary, Mike Leavitt, the former governor of Utah.

Mr. Secretary, congratulations. First time we've spoken since you've been confirmed. You've got an important assignment on you right now. I assume if you were still a governor you'd see things differently, the Medicaid problem, than you see it now as secretary of Health and Human Services.

MICHAEL LEAVITT, HHS SECRETARY: I don't think there's a governor who sat in the room today with the president who doesn't understand what the president wants to do is to slow the rate of increase. We want to -- in spending. We're going to be spending $900 billion more over the next 10 years, and the president is saying that we can just do it more slowly.

BLITZER: These governors, not only Democrats, but a lot of Republicans, as you well know, maybe even all of the Republican governors, they're pretty upset because it's going to mean taking money away from education, other vital services that the states provide, to pay for increased Medicaid costs, because Medicaid is expanding dramatically, as you well know, as people live longer.

LEAVITT: Well, the governors are concerned. And so is the president, and so am I.

For the first time, Medicaid now exceeds education in state budgets. That's an alarming concern. And we're looking for ways in which we can provide more flexibility to the states so that they're not having to leave people without health coverage.

They want very much to be able to continue it. We want to give them the flexibility they need to do so, and feel quite optimistic that both can be achieved.

BLITZER: A lot of the governors are saying this to the president -- and I assume it came up in the meetings -- Medicaid is an immediate problem right now, a huge problem, the nursing homes, the funding of the care for the elderly, Medicaid paying for so much of that. That's a crisis.

Social Security, on the other hand, is not a crisis right now. That could be a crisis in 10 or 15 or 20 years, but the president seems to be focusing in almost exclusively on Social Security reform and not focusing in on dramatic Medicaid reform. How do you answer those critics?

LEAVITT: Well, there's a point in the life of every problem when it's big enough you can see it, but small enough you can solve it. That's true for Social Security. It's true for Medicaid, and it's true for Medicare. And the president's committed to dealing with all three.

BLITZER: Well, what about Medicaid? Dramatic Medicaid reform, long-term reform studied at -- last year, the president did get a prescription drug benefit in for seniors. But in terms of restructuring it to deal with some of these enormous entitlement expenditures down the years, he seems to be punting on that while focusing in on Social Security.

LEAVITT: I spent time with more than half of the governors today and yesterday and the day before personally. And what I'm hearing from them is that there's a basic agreement that the governors want more flexibility.

They can see the need for us to improve dramatically the way Medicaid works. It's rigid. It's ineffective. It's not meeting its potential to serve the poor. And uniformly, what the governors want and what the president wants is to give governors the flexibility they need to cover those in our society who we are committed to cover, the disabled, the poor, the aged, and those who are disabled, children in the lowest-income brackets. The commitment remains absolutely, without question, on those matters.

There are other groups of people who don't have health insurance. And what the president is saying, what I'm saying is, let's see if we can provide coverage to more of them. And we can do that. It's better for us to give more a Chevy than a few a Cadillac. And we can use the dollars we're spending better.

BLITZER: Well, let me just try to rephrase the question then. On Social Security, the president has got a dramatic proposal. He wants to work with Congress to get some changes, including these private retirement accounts. On tax simplification, he's got a commission, he's looking at it, wants to get through some dramatic changes to simplify the tax code.

What is he doing specifically right now to make structural changes in Medicaid that will ease this immediate and long-term crisis as this program expands?

LEAVITT: He has instructed me to work directly with the governors to jointly, collaboratively develop a proposal to give the states the flexibility they need to assure that those who are poor in our communities have health care.

BLITZER: So do you think you're going to get legislation? Do you think you're going to come up with some sort of legislation in the short term to deal with this? Or is this a long, drawn-out conversation you plan on having?

LEAVITT: I believe it's both. I think there will be short-term changes that will provide flexibility. And I think there are longer- term things that we must do in order to absolutely transform our health care system. Medicaid needs to be part of that.

BLITZER: How does it feel not to be a governor at one of these meetings, Mr. Secretary?

LEAVITT: Well, it had a familial feel. And I saw lots of friends there. And there's a great working relationship, one I anticipate and look forward to.

BLITZER: You've got a huge job ahead of you. Good luck to you. Mike Leavitt, the secretary of Health and Human Services, former governor of Utah. Appreciate your joining us today.

LEAVITT: Thank you.

BLITZER: And what do Mr. Bush's critics have to say about his proposal to revamp Medicaid? We'll talk with one governor, Democrat Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. She met with the president today. She's standing by to join us live. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now on the breaking story that we've been following this hour. You're looking at these live pictures from the streets of Beirut. Thousands of people have been protesting, protesting Syria's military occupation of Lebanon. The government of Lebanon has now fallen. The Lebanese Prime Minister Omar Karami announcing just a short while ago, he was stepping down, the government was going out of business.

Joining us now on the phone the ambassador of Lebanon to the United States, Farid Aboud.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much for joining us. It sounds as if the people of Lebanon are virtually united now in demanding that Syria simply get out and get out right away. Is that a correct reading of what we're seeing?

FARID ABOUD, LEBANESE AMB. TO U.S.: Not quite. I think the relationship with Syria is the subject of intense debate among the Lebanese. Some people want to rectify the relationship, some of them want them out, et cetera.

But the fact is that the whole debate, however lively, however intense, is being conducted through peaceful means, and the political process is moving along Democratic way, and that's a very heartening feeling for me as a Lebanese, that in spite of all our tough talks and violent past, we have managed to debate our political issues peacefully by demonstrations, and by, you know, parliamentarian interaction rather than violence.

BLITZER: The assessment, at least the initial assessment, is that Omar Karami, the prime minister, was pro-Syrian, and he simply was forced to resign. That's why there were cheers from the crowds of demonstrators when they got word that he and his government were stepping down. Is that a correct assessment?

ABOUD: Mr. Karami is not more pro-Syrian than those who preceded him, honestly. It has been since 1989, all prime ministers have been very, you know, friendly, and interactive with Syria, including the late Prime Minister Hariri.

But the issue here was that this government is being criticized and contested because a very traumatic event, and that is the assassination of this very prominent former prime minister. And it has basically been criticized so harshly that the prime minister felt that he had to resign. Even though all the predictions were that there would be a vote of confidence, and government could have, you know, won the confidence by a very slim majority. But it seemed that the prime minister had decided that the criticism was too hard and he decided to present his resignation.

BLITZER: All right, Farid Aboud is the ambassador of Lebanon to the United States. Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much. Good luck to you. Good luck to all the people of Lebanon during these very, very tumultuous days on the streets of Lebanon.

ABOUD: Thank you. We will manage.

BLITZER: And let's move on to some other stories. The president of the United States now meeting with the nation's governors here in Washington.

We just heard from the secretary of health and human services, Mike Leavitt, who, among other things, tried to sell proposed Medicaid changes, specifically cuts in proposed Medicaid spending to the governors. Governors, Republicans and Democrats, not very happy with those cuts.

Let's get some reaction now from one Democratic governor.

Kathleen Sebelius is the governor of Kansas. She's also the policy chair of the Democratic Governors' Association.

Governor, thanks very much. Welcome to Washington.

GOV. KATHLEEN SEBELIUS (D), KANSAS: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: All right. So what do you think -- the secretary of health and human services, Mike Leavitt, a man you know. You met with him, you and the other governors, former governor of Utah. Says these aren't really cuts, these are cuts in the projected increases over the next 10 years, but they're still going to be increases.

SEBELIUS: Well, I think that Medicaid is so important in states.

We have about 300,000 Kansans, mostly women and children, who get their health benefits through Medicaid. We have one out of every three births paid for by Medicaid.

So as a governor looking to provide affordable health care and wrap-around services to Kansans, we are very cautious about any changes made in the program that would really limit our ability to provide affordable health care.

BLITZER: What does this mean?

This means that the state of Kansas is going to have to spend more money than it was hoping to spend to deal with those 300,000 people?

SEBELIUS: Absolutely.

Because right now, Medicaid is a federal/state partnership -- 60 cents on every dollar comes from the federal government, 40 cents comes from the state. And we -- biggest health insurer for children, provide services for disabled Kansans, for elderly, poor Kansans, and those populations don't cease to exist because Congress cuts the budget.

BLITZER: So what does that mean practically speaking? You're going to have to take this money to spend on Medicaid, because that's an entitlement, and cut other state spending?

SEBELIUS: That's absolutely correct.

We've got 22 percent of our budget currently focused on Medicaid spending. If the Congress follows the president's recommendation and decreases total dollars, we'll have to spend even more, because people need health care. They're desperate for it.

We need at the state level to take care of our citizens. So, having the president change his mind about, oh, for all expenditures, doesn't remove the needs that the people in Kansas have.

BLITZER: Is this a significant increase in spending for Medicaid that you -- if the president's proposal gets through, or is it just a marginal increase?

SEBELIUS: Actually, it's significant. And the population...

BLITZER: How significant?

SEBELIUS: Well, it's a little hard to tell how that happens over the period of time. The budget's just been proposed and we don't know what all the details are. We'll know a little more next week.

The biggest population that is on Medicaid right now, growing at a rapid rate are older, poor Kansans. Nursing home care is shifted to the states. Their pharmaceutical care has been shifted to the states. So that's a population states never anticipated paying for.

BLITZER: Were you encouraged by what the president said to you today?

SEBELIUS: I'm encouraged by flexibility.

We need some more flexibility from the feds, not to have rigid rules, to take care of people in a more cost-effective way.

And I think governors are very willing to work with Secretary Leavitt to get to programs that really work.

What I'm not encouraged by, if that flexibility comes with big cuts it doesn't leave us much choice.

BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about Social Security. Another huge issue on the agenda. The president spoke out about it earlier today. I want to run a brief clip of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some of you are probably wondering why I took on the Social Security issue. After all, it had been called the third rail of American politics. I am because the demographics have changed dramatically and you're beginning to see it in your states.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: All right. The president says you've got to deal with Social Security right now and he's got a dramatic reform proposal out on the table, not all the specifics are there.

Are you willing to work with the president in the most controversial aspect of that proposal to create these private retirement accounts?

SEBELIUS: Well, I would think governors across the board are -- think that the president may have identified the wrong crisis.

We have a health care crisis in this country. We have millions of Americans without affordable coverage. We have too many people who really are desperate to buy affordable medications and don't know if they can go to the doctor for preventive care.

That's the immediate crisis we deal with day in and day out. So we'd like to shift the focus to the crisis at hand and work down the road on what happens in the future with Social Security.

But I don't think Kansans or governors see that as the crisis that we have to deal with today.

BLITZER: Let me shift gears and talk about something huge in your state, Kansas, the arrest of the suspect in the so-called BTK killings. This is something that people in Kansas have been waiting for, literally, for decades.

SEBELIUS: That's right.

BLITZER: You're convinced that they've got the man?

SEBELIUS: Well, I haven't been briefed by the law enforcement community. I actually was here in D.C. when the capture occurred.

We have excellent law enforcement personnel in Kansas. This has clearly been an ongoing long-term effort.

And from what I understand, they feel fairly confident that they have the right person, and I hope they're right. The community of Wichita has been on edge since this man resurfaced, and certainly safety and security of Kansans is my number one concern.

So I hope we have the right guy.

BLITZER: One final political question for you.

The new chairman of the Democratic Party was in Kansas for the last few days, Howard Dean. He wanted to go to a so-called red state. Kansas, even though you're a Democratic governor, about as red as it gets when it comes to presidential elections.

But you didn't meet with Howard Dean while he was in Kansas. Some are suggesting you didn't want to be seen with him.

SEBELIUS: Actually, that isn't true. I had breakfast with Governor Dean when he came to Kansas and chose to go to the 50th anniversary of Allen Fieldhouse, our great basketball stadium, instead of the evening rally in Lawrence.

But we met. I'm encouraged that he wants a 50-state party, that he is a governor who knew about balanced budgets and delivering affordable health care and worked on education.

So as somebody who knows the job I have and how difficult it is, he's interested in putting some party resources and making them available in states like Kansas, and that's good news.

BLITZER: When are you up for re-election?

SEBELIUS: 2006.

BLITZER: And beyond 2006, are you looking for higher office? A lot of people are floating your name.

SEBELIUS: I'm focused on my day job right now. It keeps me up to speed day in and day out.

BLITZER: But down the road it may be an opportunity, right?

SEBELIUS: You know, I love Kansas. I'm doing exactly what I want to do, which is representing a great state.

BLITZER: Why am I not surprised by that answer?

(LAUGHTER)

Governor Sebelius, thanks very much for joining us.

SEBELIUS: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck to you.

I'm glad they caught the BTK killer, at least the suspect.

SEBELIUS: Yes. Me, too.

BLITZER: He's innocent until proven guilty.

Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, thanks very much.

SEBELIUS: Thank you.

BLITZER: The search for that serial killer that has finally led to that Kansas family man, the recently named head coach of -- recently named head of a local church council.

Within the past hour, CNN's Bob Franken has been digging up new information. Let's go to Bob Franken right now. He's live on the arrest of the BTK serial killer suspect -- Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you just noticed, Wolf, the governor of Kansas, in all due respect, said absolutely nothing when you asked her to comment on the case, and she is following the advice of people who say, don't say anything provocative in a circumstance like this for fear of compromising the case.

And the police chief made it very clear this morning that he wished that others would do that. He called a special briefing to complain bitterly about what he would describe as a media frenzy, and specifically some reports that have appeared in the media that he said are inaccurate, based on false information, could compromise the investigation and the entire case to the point that he's considering legal options.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF NORMAN WILLIAMS, WICHITA POLICE DEPT.: I'm trying to contact the D.A.'s office, and I'm going to be asking the D.A. what legal recourses do we have in regards to information that is inaccurate and inappropriate being disseminated in the community? Because as I mentioned to you before, it is important that we maintain the integrity and the professionalism of this investigation, because if we don't do that, then the work that's been occurring over the last several months goes down the drain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: Now what he was talking about specifically was a report that first appeared in the Associated Press, which said that the police were now linking the person who's been arrested, Dennis Rader, to three more homicides than the ones they said. That would have made it 13. Many news organizations, including CNN, cited the A.P. report before independent reporting found that that was, according to authorities, false information.

He was saying that as a matter of fact this is not the case. He once again categorically denied that the number is 13.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: At this present time, Dennis Rader has been connected with only 10, only 10 homicides that have spanned 31 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: The police chief says that the next thing will be for an arraignment -- not an arraignment, excuse me, that's not the term at all, it is a first preliminary hearing that would precede an arraignment. This is where the charges are read to the defendant, and bail, permanent bail, is completely set. Right now the bond is $10 million, as the chief pointed out $1 million for each of the victims.

BLITZER: And when did you say that hearing was now scheduled to take place, Bob?

FRANKEN: Well, Actually it's not. Under normal circumstances it would be held today. There has been some delay. It could possibly still be held later today. Most are saying it's more likely tomorrow. Among the issues are some lawyer issues, but they're being quite, quite mum about what the specifics are.

BLITZER: CNN's Bob Franken reporting for us from Wichita, Kansas. Bob, thanks very much.

This important note to our viewers: Tonight on a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT, Aaron Brown and CNN correspondents will take you inside the hunt for the serial -- a serial killer. Who exactly is this suspect Dennis Rader? From profilers to the woman who got away to the chilling climax of fear that has gripped Wichita and other areas of Kansas. Don't miss BTK, cracking the case, a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN," 10:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN, in fact, only on CNN.

BLITZER: It was a night of firsts in Hollywood last night, from first-time host Chris Rock to first-time award winners Morgan Freeman and Jamie Foxx. A recap of the star-studded Oscar affair. That and more news from CNN. That's all coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBRA STREISAND, ENTERTAINER: The Oscar goes to...

DUSTIN HOFFMAN, ACTOR: Sorry.

STREISAND: It's OK.

HOFFMAN: Go ahead.

STREISAND: The problem is I forgot my glasses, but...

(LAUGHTER)

I'm so happy to give you this again, Clint.

(CHEERING)

"Million Dollar Baby!"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A golden night for Clint Eastwood and the entire team behind his boxing drama "Million Dollar Baby." It's now the day after in Los Angeles. Many people still getting out of bed or at least they may still be in bed after a star-studded night of parties.

Somebody who is out of bed right now -- CNN pop culture correspondent Toure. He's joining us from L.A. with the highs and lows of last night's Academy Awards. Toure, I suspect you never even got to sleep yet, have you?

TOURE, CNN POP CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, I got a little sleep. I went to Puffy's party for a minute, but I got some rest, definitely, Wolf. BLITZER: Well, that is reassuring to all of us here on CNN. Let's talk a little bit about "Million Dollar Baby," the Best Picture. I suspect none of us should have been all that surprised that film got the award.

TOURE: I wasn't surprised. I mean, for once, the best film of the year won. I mean, I don't think "Lord of the Rings" was the best movie made last year. But this year, as soon as I saw "Million Dollar Baby," I said the Oscar race is over. And you can check the tapes on "AMERICAN MORNING." It wasn't a film, it was an experience. But here's something interesting, Wolf. This is the third time Scorsese has lost to an actor/director.

Robert Redford's kind of ordinary "People" somehow beat "Raging Bull," the greatest sports film ever. Kevin Costner's "Dancing with Wolves" or waltzing with wolves or whatever that crap was called, beat the legendary "Goodfellas," and now Clint has beaten him again. Mark my words, Marty will never win an Oscar till lifetime achievement, which should arrive in 2012, 2015, which will be very deserved. Then again, maybe doing "Taxi Driver II" with De Niro ain't such a bad idea.

BLITZER: All right, well, let's talk about Hilary Swank. She was incredible in "Million Dollar" -- in this film. I mean, it was so painful to watch the film. All of us who saw it, I suspect, you and everybody was at one point tempted to have to walk out, it was so difficult to watch. But it was so incredibly powerful and her performance was simply amazing. I guess there was no great surprise there either.

TOURE: Yes. But I mean, you know how often men cry in movies. And at the end of that movie, I heard a bunch of guys sniffling behind me. I wasn't crying because, you know, I don't do that. But a lot of guys in the theater were crying. Partly because of Hilary, partly because of Clint, a lot because of Morgan Freeman, who won, of course, Best Supporting Actor, like one of the only people in Hollywood who can play God convincingly. So I'm glad he finally got a statue.

BLITZER: He was terrific -- Morgan Freeman, in that film. He's terrific in every film. Let's talk a little bit about the film "Ray" and Jamie Foxx. Best Actor. Once again, Toure, you called this one.

TOURE: Yes. Well, I mean, the Oscars were extraordinarily predictable last night. I went five for six. But I'm not going to pat myself on the back too much, because it kind of knew where it was all going. Of course the Jamie Foxx win took place. We all knew that was going to happen. But to think a year ago, he's making garbage like "Breaking All the Rules" and now he's on Hollywood's A-list. I bet he's right now, as we speak, setting up lunch with Spielberg. But he deserves it. He became Ray.

As opposed to the one real surprise to me of the night, the one I got wrong, the caricature of Kate Hepburn that Cate Blanchett did in "Aviator." What was she doing there? I can't believe they went for that one, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, what did you think? Who did you think was going to get that Oscar?

TOURE: That was the one I really had no idea. I thought maybe Virginia Madsen, although she wasn't the best thing in "Sideways." I thought maybe Sophie Okonedo, but I don't know how many people have seen "Hotel Rwanda." So, I mean, that was the one I didn't know, but I really didn't think Cate Blanchett was going to get it and I think Hollywood kind of booted it on that one.

BLITZER: I would have voted for "Hotel Rwanda" for best film but that's just me. It was an incredible motion picture. Let's talk a little bit about Chris Rock as the emcee, as the host of this spectacle last night. How did he do?

TOURE: Well, spectacular might have been the right word. Matt Drudge is reporting that the Oscar overnight ratings were the highest since 2000. So I think Gil Cates would give rock an A. Now, the show dragged like algebra class for a while except for Rock. I thought he was great.

Some people are saying not as great as they hoped or expected. But come on, he went out and said four-percenters, you can't take your eyes off them, Penelope Cruz and Salma Hayek. I mean, I loved that bit. And the Magic Johnson theater bit reminded of us exactly how far removed Hollywood is from the rest of America. I loved him for that.

BLITZER: All right. Take us behind the scenes, Toure. You're a real insider out there. How were the parties afterwards?

TOURE: I mean, there were a lot of parties. "Vanity Fair" was impossible to get into. Jamie Foxx had a party at the Sky Bar. And I was with somebody who was going to go out with Chris Rock and when Rock said he's not going out, we said well, we can't get into the Jamie Foxx party because that's going to be super tight. So it was a great night for parties. I only went to Puffy's because I don't have enough juice to get in anywhere else.

BLITZER: But isn't it a fact, though, that most people are just up for hours and hours, at least the Hollywood insiders who want to party all through the night?

TOURE: Well, I mean, it depends on what you do. I mean, Rock, I heard, went to one or two things and then he just crashed, he was so tired. He'd initially planned to do an after-set at some comedy club, like his idol Prince would do a big concert and then go to some little club and do a set. But early in the week, he realized, I'm too tired. I can't do any more. So he just said I'm going to bed. There was a lot of great partying. You know, but Wolf, it's the Oscars, right? I mean, this is an American holiday. That's what you're supposed to do.

BLITZER: It certainly is the Oscars. We only have a few seconds left. Was there one moment that will forever stick out in your mind, Toure?

TOURE: You know, I think the confluence of Jamie Foxx getting the award, referencing Sidney Poitier, Oprah like pump-fisting in the crowd. I mean, before the show started, I said, this is going to be the blackest Oscars ever. And Karyn Bryant laughed at me, Karyn Bryant from "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," which airs on Headline News at 7:00 p.m. every night. She laughed at me.

But it was the blackest Oscars ever. There you saw Jay Z, right again, Don Cheadle, Morgan Freeman got a statue. There was a tremendous amount of pride in the hall and in this town for that black people are being really fully included in this mix right now, or at least this year.

BLITZER: All right. Well let's hope it's forever. It's a great moment in American history. The Oscars every year, we love it. Toure, you helped us better appreciate what we all saw last night. Thanks very much.

TOURE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Toure. He's always on "AMERICAN MORNING." Does an excellent job for us. I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

It was 1954, and some of the most dangerous CIA supply mission flights in the world were conducted in and out of what is now Vietnam. Our national security correspondent David Ensor will take a look back on one of the brave men who risked his life trying to save others, and what he remembers most from those harrowing days.

That's coming up on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS," 5:00 p.m. Eastern later today. Until then, thanks very much for watching. News from CNN. "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien, drinking some coffee, getting ready for two and a half hours of live television. That's coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired February 28, 2005 - 12:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Unfolding this hour on NEWS FROM CNN, the deadliest attack yet for insurgents killing Iraqis. A suicide car bomber leaving at least 125 people dead, even more wounded. We'll go live to Baghdad.
And as we just saw here live on CNN, we'll be in Beirut, where a government has now fallen. Thousands of people are calling for Syria to get out. We'll go live to Beirut momentarily.

And in this country, the entertainer Michael Jackson and the child molestation case against him. Opening statements finally under way in his long-awaited trial. We're live from Santa Maria, California.

First, some other headlines "Now in the News."

The Vatican says Pope John Paul II is recovering well. Yesterday's appearance at his hospital window seemed to indicate as much. An official statement released today says the pope has begun breathing and voice therapy in the wake of his tracheotomy.

A multibillion-dollar buyout. Federated Department Stores has agreed to purchase its rival, May Department Stores, for about $11 billion. The deal brings together such names as Bloomingdale's, Macy's, Lord & Taylor and Marshall Field's. The combined company would be the third largest retailer in the country behind Wal-Mart and Sears.

Certainly not spring yet. A late winter storm is dumping snow on the East Coast from North Carolina to New England. Up to eight inches already has fallen in some areas. More in the forecast.

Among the more popular stories this hour on cnn.com, police had to be called in to keep the peace at the home once shared by Scott and Laci Peterson. Scott Peterson's family reportedly got into an argument with Laci Peterson's mother, Sharon Rocha. The confrontation happened this weekend as Scott Peterson's family hauled furniture and other belongings from the couple's vacant house.

And another story with lots of hits on the Web, the BTK killings in Kansas. An arrest is made, but there are still plenty of unanswered questions. A live update, by the way, from Kansas coming up this hour on NEWS FROM CNN.

Up first, breaking news out of Lebanon, a country right now without a government. Just minutes ago, Lebanon's prime minister resigned and said everyone in his administration was stepping down as well. Our senior international correspondent Brent Sadler standing by in Beirut with more on this breaking story.

Brent, explain to our viewers why this is so significant.

BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, very dramatic developments here in the past few minutes. Behind me you see there a throng of demonstrators. If we just zoom in behind me, we can take a look at these live pictures.

Within the past few minutes, these people have just heard that the Lebanese government has resigned, the Lebanese government that was strongly backed by Syria. Syria under tremendous international pressure, led by the United States and France, to force Syria to withdraw its troops from Lebanon and to force Syria to remove its military intelligence network, and to stop meddling in Lebanese political affairs.

Pressure has been building in the two weeks inside Lebanon since the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister Rafik Hariri, whose tomb lies in Martyr's Square, where you see a sea of Lebanese flags and ecstatic supporters of the opposition who've been trying to use people power to break the will of the pro-Syrian government here. They weren't expecting it to crack as soon as it has. There was supposed to be a vote of no confidence. That did not take place.

Pressure on the streets. Pressure on the international level certainly coming to bear on the Lebanese authorities, very close allies of Syria.

The question is, what now fills this political vacuum? And what moves does Syria now take in terms of its military presence in this country as they ratchet, the pressure is turned up by the U.S. administration and Europe -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And this opposition to the Syrian involvement in Lebanon, Brent, it's across sectarian, ethnic, religious divides in Lebanon. It's sort of across the board, isn't it?

SADLER: That's right, Wolf. This has seen an unprecedented unifying of political parties and groups that were during the civil war years here at each other's throats, literally.

The assassination of Hariri has galvanized the opposition in a way we have not seen before. And they have been claiming for days to have the popular support of the majority of the Lebanese. No way of telling whether or not that's true. But the effect of this, combined with international pressure, has now forced its government to resign.

What will Syria now do? Will it withdraw its troops from Lebanon before the elections in May here, as demanded by the U.S. administration? Or will there be a standoff?

Security forces have tried to prevent this demonstration taking place today in the event the opposition went through the security cordon here, assembled in Martyr's Square, and continued with these protests that have now brought, if you like, a democracy movement for freedom, say opposition leaders, to break the back of what they say was a staunchly pro-Syrian government. Syria itself, they say, been for decades under one-man rule -- Wolf.

BLITZER: One final question, Brent, before I let you go. Emil Lahoud, the president of Lebanon, widely seen by his critics as what they call a puppet of the Damascus regime, what happens to him?

SADLER: Well, President Emil Lahoud remains the head of state. And this will be the interesting next phase: what government will Emil Lahoud be able to select? How much influence will Syria still have, if at all, on the formation of a new government? This is now brand- new territory for the Lebanese, and brand-new territory for the Syrians to step into, given the dramatic change in circumstances and the resignation of this government just a very short time ago -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Brent Sadler with breaking news in Beirut.

The government there has fallen. The prime minister, Omar Karami, has stepped down. You see people power on the streets of Beirut. We'll get back there as developments unfold.

Syria has from the start denied any involvement in the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, or with Friday night's terror attack on a night spot in Tel Aviv. Israel, though, is pointing the finger directly at Damascus, saying it played a role by giving shelter to leaders of the Palestinian group Islamic Jihad.

Israel believes that group ordered the bombing, and indeed there was a statement from that Damascus-based office of Islamic Jihad claiming responsibility for the terror attack. Yesterday, though, our CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Syrian cabinet minister, Buthaina Shaaban, told me, and let me quote specifically, "Syria has never carried out a terrorist attack against anyone." That's what she said.

Despite all the rhetoric, the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, says he thinks the United States may eventually attack his country. In an interview with Italy's "Republica" newspaper, he said -- let me quote again -- "If you ask me if I'm expecting an armed attack, I've seen it coming since the end of the war in Iraq." That's a direct quote.

President Assad added he does not think an attack is necessarily imminent. No comment from the White House.

Now let's move on to the deadliest single insurgent attack since the U.S.-led invasion almost two years ago. A suicide attacker drove a huge car bomb into a group of Iraqi police recruits. And at this hour, the number of deaths listed at 125 or higher, with even more people wounded.

Let's go to Baghdad. CNN's Nic Robertson standing by with details -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the total of those wounded is believed to be over 200 at this time. The attack occurred early in the morning at 9:30, just as those police recruits were gathering outside that medical center in the town of Hilla, about 60 miles south of Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Clothes, shoes and blood, a lot of blood, the aftermath of Iraq's deadliest suicide bombing since the fall of Saddam almost two years ago. According to Iraqi police, the bomber drove a vehicle packed with explosives into a line of police recruits as they waited outside a medical center in Hilla for health checks.

Amar Moussa (ph) was an eyewitness. "People were lining up for medical checks to become policemen," he says. "A car came from that direction and exploded, killing more than 50 people, more than you would expect." The death toll particularly high, officials say, as the blast occurred at 9:30 in the morning, ripping through a crowded adjacent market.

The last day as deadly as this occurred in February 2004 when multiple attacks in Karbala and Baghdad during the Shiite festival of Ashoura claimed at least 141 lives. In recent weeks and months, Iraqi police recruits have borne the brunt of insurgent attacks. Many dozens killed as they've waited at recruitment offices in the center and north of Iraq while being ambushed in convoys. Both Iraqi and U.S. officials insist recruitment has not been impacted so far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have had no slowdown in our recruiting efforts either for the Iraqi police or the Iraqi army. In fact, we have more recruits than we can push through the academies and train at this time.

ROBERTSON: As hospitals in Hilla began to fill with the dead and wounded, the scale of this attack seems likely to prompt tough questioning among Iraqi politicians on how to protect security service personnel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And that's a debate that's been going on for quite some time here. A lot of it often focuses on the amount of infiltration that the insurgency has within the security forces here, which on occasion does seem to give the insurgency some prior knowledge of events or the timings of events, at least, that enable them to make some quite deadly attacks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What kind of city is Hilla, Nic? I assume you've been there. Is it a prominently Shiite-Sunni? What kind of city is it? And give us the likely impact of this kind of horrible terror attack on the effort to form the new government in Iraq.

ROBERTSON: Well, much of Hilla is quite a modern city. It's a city that's on one of the main highways to the south. It's quite a sprawling area. Many hundreds of thousands of people live there. It is, if you will, at the sort of southern edge of the Sunni Triangle. It's in an intensely tribal area where there's been a lot of conflict over the last year and a half, particularly hijackings on the road, kidnappings on the highways. Shoot-outs with police regularly happen in Hilla, often numbers of bodies turn up.

Policemen, we're told, other security force bodies turn up on the streets and in the area of Hilla. So it has been a very volatile area. That area just south of Baghdad, the sort of triangle of death that they talk about just south of Baghdad, Hilla is at the southern apex of that.

And it's an area where the police have had multiple raids we've heard about over months. It's an area that's been -- that there have been multiple efforts to try and calm it. But it still seems to be an area at least where the insurgents can still get into and carry out attacks of this scale -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson reporting for us on this bloody, bloody day in Iraq. Thank you, Nic, very much.

Much more coverage coming up on all of these stories. Also, we're following Medicare and Social Security, just two of the topics being discussed in Washington today.

The president has been meeting with the nation's governors. Coming up, I'll speak live with Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt, as well as Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius about the president's latest plans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family is in a bewildered stage totally, trying to make sense and to understand what is happening in their lives right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The stunning arrest of a suspect in the BTK killings in Kansas. Reaction from the people closest to the suspect, Dennis Rader.

And the long-awaited opening statements in Michael Jackson's child molestation trial now under way in California.

You're watching NEWS FROM CNN, and we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You're looking at live pictures. A huge demonstration on the streets of Beirut, elsewhere in Lebanon, as well, demonstration. Some are calling it people power, forcing the Lebanese Prime Minister Omar Karami and his government to step down, to resign today, in the face of escalating widespread opposition to Syria's occupation of parts of Lebanon.

We're watching this story for you. We'll continue to go back to Lebanon. Dramatic developments in Lebanon unfolding even as we speak.

Other developments involving the Middle East, as well. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice right now on her way to London for an important meeting on Middle East peacemaking, organized by the British prime minister, Tony Blair. Diplomats hope it will help get peace talks off the ground and lead to more aid to the Palestinians. Israel not attending this meeting, but supporting the concept of this meeting.

Foreign ministers from more than 20 other countries are participating, including Ahmed Abul Gheit, the foreign minister of Egypt. He's joining us now live from London.

Mr. Minister, thanks very much for joining us.

Before we get to the subject of London, I'm interested in your thoughts on Lebanon right now, Egypt's position. Does Egypt want Syria to completely pull out its military and intelligence service -- services forces from Lebanon immediately?

AHMED ABUL GHEIT, FOREIGN MINISTER OF EGYPT: Look, we have had the Syrian foreign minister coming to Cairo yesterday, and he met the president, and he met me, and we have had discussions. The issue is how to lead Syria and Lebanon where we would be implementing 1559, which is the U.N. Security Council resolution, as well as the Taif Agreement.

There we have to work together in order to allow the Syrians to have an orderly phased-out withdrawal of Syrian forces, according to the Taif Agreement, as well as the requirements of 1559. So, yes, the Egyptian position is that we have to find a settlement for that -- for that situation whereby eventually Syrian forces will be evacuating Lebanon.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Minister the Taif Agreement was way back in the '80s, and Syria has refused to leave all these years since then. We're approaching 15, 20 years of Syrian military occupation of Lebanon.

When you say eventually, how much of a timetable should it be, a matter of days, weeks, months, or more years for the Syrians to pull out?

GHEIT: Well, that is an issue to be discussed, and I'm sure that within the requirements of 1559 and the needs of responding to that -- to that resolution we will be reaching that point, where -- where the Syrians and the Lebanese, with the help of the United Nations, would be reaching that point, where they will be withdrawing and phasing out of -- phasing their forces out of Lebanon. Beyond this, I cannot give you a timeline.

BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about the dramatic announcement from your president, President Hosni Mubarak, to call for real elections in which there would be an opposition candidate, more than one candidate, running for president. Some of the skeptics, some of the critics saying they'll believe it when they see it. How sincere, how likely is it that...

GHEIT: Then they will be seeing it.

BLITZER: All right. So I assume President Mubarak, who's going to run for re-election, there will be a candidate, or more than one candidate who will challenge him? Is that right?

GHEIT: That is if the president decides to go for the contest, and then some other people would be putting their names on the ballot. Then it would be so.

The Egyptian parliament is right now deliberating on the -- on the sort of the norms and the way it will be conducted. And I'm sure that within the next two to three months we would have reached that point where measures would have been agreed on how to conduct elections in October.

BLITZER: So there will be real elections, democratic elections in Egypt with an opposition, with more than just one candidate. That's a very potentially positive development. But at the same time, as you know, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice canceled a visit to Egypt scheduled for the coming days because of the arrest of an opposition leader, Ayman Nour, to protest the arrest of this political figure in Egypt. That sends obviously the exact opposite signal.

GHEIT: Let me -- let me put the issue in order. The secretary did not cancel a visit to Egypt. The secretary has postponed a visit to the region.

The secretary was supposed to have visited Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and possibly Iraq. So she decided to, for reasons related to the secretary herself, decided to postpone, not cancel.

So Egypt was amongst those countries that were ready to receive her, then she postponed. But beyond this, I would not give it any (UNINTELLIGIBLE) connotation. That is one.

Two, the issue of...

BLITZER: But you know -- let me interrupt -- Mr. Minister, let me interrupt, with all due respect. U.S. officials are making it clear that they are deeply concerned about the arrest of Ayman Nour, the opposition political figure in Egypt, and they wanted to underscore that irritation with the decision of your government to arrest him.

GHEIT: Well, we are also irritated by that continuous reference. We have told the Americans when I visited last week -- I visited Washington last week, and on every level I said the following: this is an Egyptian internal situation.

There is a crime committed. There is a criminal investigation conducted. The attorney general of Egypt is the only and the soul responsible figure to decide on the issue. And the issue will be decided.

It might be dropped, as is the case, it might be put to a court. That will come in due time.

BLITZER: Let me get your reaction to the Friday night terror attack on that night club in Tel Aviv. Prime Minister Sharon directly implicating Syria because of the statement released by Islamic Jihad in Damascus that they were responsible for organizing that attack.

What do you -- what is your assessment now? What happens next?

GHEIT: Well, the foreign minister of Syria was in Cairo yesterday, and he publicly denied that Syria has -- well, the Palestinian president also yesterday or the day before said -- alluded to the possibility of a third party. I met him only half an hour ago, the Palestinian president. He says, "I have to carry out an investigation."

I'm not allowed to carry out the investigation because the Palestinian investigators are not allowed to enter into the situation where the events was initiated from. Then we have to keep working, all of us together.

We have to restrain our activities, Palestinians and Israelis, our actions. And at the same time, to work together to collaborate in order to identify who is responsible and who is doing this for that process.

The political process is just being initiated. And there has been understandings and chairmanship (ph) between Israelis and Palestinians. These understandings have to be implemented, and we have to give them the chance and the opportunity to implement them. Those who are doing this are trying to interrupt the process, and we should not allow them to do so.

BLITZER: Ahmed Abul Gheit is the foreign minister of Egypt. Mr. Minister, welcome to CNN. Thanks very much for spending a few moments with us. Good luck in London at this conference.

GHEIT: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Here in Washington, President Bush is getting an earful from the nation's governors. They're troubled by his plans to slash spending for Medicaid, the government health care program for the poor. States say costs are going through the roof as more and more people sign up.

Joining us now from the White House, the Health and Human Services secretary, Mike Leavitt, the former governor of Utah.

Mr. Secretary, congratulations. First time we've spoken since you've been confirmed. You've got an important assignment on you right now. I assume if you were still a governor you'd see things differently, the Medicaid problem, than you see it now as secretary of Health and Human Services.

MICHAEL LEAVITT, HHS SECRETARY: I don't think there's a governor who sat in the room today with the president who doesn't understand what the president wants to do is to slow the rate of increase. We want to -- in spending. We're going to be spending $900 billion more over the next 10 years, and the president is saying that we can just do it more slowly.

BLITZER: These governors, not only Democrats, but a lot of Republicans, as you well know, maybe even all of the Republican governors, they're pretty upset because it's going to mean taking money away from education, other vital services that the states provide, to pay for increased Medicaid costs, because Medicaid is expanding dramatically, as you well know, as people live longer.

LEAVITT: Well, the governors are concerned. And so is the president, and so am I.

For the first time, Medicaid now exceeds education in state budgets. That's an alarming concern. And we're looking for ways in which we can provide more flexibility to the states so that they're not having to leave people without health coverage.

They want very much to be able to continue it. We want to give them the flexibility they need to do so, and feel quite optimistic that both can be achieved.

BLITZER: A lot of the governors are saying this to the president -- and I assume it came up in the meetings -- Medicaid is an immediate problem right now, a huge problem, the nursing homes, the funding of the care for the elderly, Medicaid paying for so much of that. That's a crisis.

Social Security, on the other hand, is not a crisis right now. That could be a crisis in 10 or 15 or 20 years, but the president seems to be focusing in almost exclusively on Social Security reform and not focusing in on dramatic Medicaid reform. How do you answer those critics?

LEAVITT: Well, there's a point in the life of every problem when it's big enough you can see it, but small enough you can solve it. That's true for Social Security. It's true for Medicaid, and it's true for Medicare. And the president's committed to dealing with all three.

BLITZER: Well, what about Medicaid? Dramatic Medicaid reform, long-term reform studied at -- last year, the president did get a prescription drug benefit in for seniors. But in terms of restructuring it to deal with some of these enormous entitlement expenditures down the years, he seems to be punting on that while focusing in on Social Security.

LEAVITT: I spent time with more than half of the governors today and yesterday and the day before personally. And what I'm hearing from them is that there's a basic agreement that the governors want more flexibility.

They can see the need for us to improve dramatically the way Medicaid works. It's rigid. It's ineffective. It's not meeting its potential to serve the poor. And uniformly, what the governors want and what the president wants is to give governors the flexibility they need to cover those in our society who we are committed to cover, the disabled, the poor, the aged, and those who are disabled, children in the lowest-income brackets. The commitment remains absolutely, without question, on those matters.

There are other groups of people who don't have health insurance. And what the president is saying, what I'm saying is, let's see if we can provide coverage to more of them. And we can do that. It's better for us to give more a Chevy than a few a Cadillac. And we can use the dollars we're spending better.

BLITZER: Well, let me just try to rephrase the question then. On Social Security, the president has got a dramatic proposal. He wants to work with Congress to get some changes, including these private retirement accounts. On tax simplification, he's got a commission, he's looking at it, wants to get through some dramatic changes to simplify the tax code.

What is he doing specifically right now to make structural changes in Medicaid that will ease this immediate and long-term crisis as this program expands?

LEAVITT: He has instructed me to work directly with the governors to jointly, collaboratively develop a proposal to give the states the flexibility they need to assure that those who are poor in our communities have health care.

BLITZER: So do you think you're going to get legislation? Do you think you're going to come up with some sort of legislation in the short term to deal with this? Or is this a long, drawn-out conversation you plan on having?

LEAVITT: I believe it's both. I think there will be short-term changes that will provide flexibility. And I think there are longer- term things that we must do in order to absolutely transform our health care system. Medicaid needs to be part of that.

BLITZER: How does it feel not to be a governor at one of these meetings, Mr. Secretary?

LEAVITT: Well, it had a familial feel. And I saw lots of friends there. And there's a great working relationship, one I anticipate and look forward to.

BLITZER: You've got a huge job ahead of you. Good luck to you. Mike Leavitt, the secretary of Health and Human Services, former governor of Utah. Appreciate your joining us today.

LEAVITT: Thank you.

BLITZER: And what do Mr. Bush's critics have to say about his proposal to revamp Medicaid? We'll talk with one governor, Democrat Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. She met with the president today. She's standing by to join us live. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now on the breaking story that we've been following this hour. You're looking at these live pictures from the streets of Beirut. Thousands of people have been protesting, protesting Syria's military occupation of Lebanon. The government of Lebanon has now fallen. The Lebanese Prime Minister Omar Karami announcing just a short while ago, he was stepping down, the government was going out of business.

Joining us now on the phone the ambassador of Lebanon to the United States, Farid Aboud.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much for joining us. It sounds as if the people of Lebanon are virtually united now in demanding that Syria simply get out and get out right away. Is that a correct reading of what we're seeing?

FARID ABOUD, LEBANESE AMB. TO U.S.: Not quite. I think the relationship with Syria is the subject of intense debate among the Lebanese. Some people want to rectify the relationship, some of them want them out, et cetera.

But the fact is that the whole debate, however lively, however intense, is being conducted through peaceful means, and the political process is moving along Democratic way, and that's a very heartening feeling for me as a Lebanese, that in spite of all our tough talks and violent past, we have managed to debate our political issues peacefully by demonstrations, and by, you know, parliamentarian interaction rather than violence.

BLITZER: The assessment, at least the initial assessment, is that Omar Karami, the prime minister, was pro-Syrian, and he simply was forced to resign. That's why there were cheers from the crowds of demonstrators when they got word that he and his government were stepping down. Is that a correct assessment?

ABOUD: Mr. Karami is not more pro-Syrian than those who preceded him, honestly. It has been since 1989, all prime ministers have been very, you know, friendly, and interactive with Syria, including the late Prime Minister Hariri.

But the issue here was that this government is being criticized and contested because a very traumatic event, and that is the assassination of this very prominent former prime minister. And it has basically been criticized so harshly that the prime minister felt that he had to resign. Even though all the predictions were that there would be a vote of confidence, and government could have, you know, won the confidence by a very slim majority. But it seemed that the prime minister had decided that the criticism was too hard and he decided to present his resignation.

BLITZER: All right, Farid Aboud is the ambassador of Lebanon to the United States. Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much. Good luck to you. Good luck to all the people of Lebanon during these very, very tumultuous days on the streets of Lebanon.

ABOUD: Thank you. We will manage.

BLITZER: And let's move on to some other stories. The president of the United States now meeting with the nation's governors here in Washington.

We just heard from the secretary of health and human services, Mike Leavitt, who, among other things, tried to sell proposed Medicaid changes, specifically cuts in proposed Medicaid spending to the governors. Governors, Republicans and Democrats, not very happy with those cuts.

Let's get some reaction now from one Democratic governor.

Kathleen Sebelius is the governor of Kansas. She's also the policy chair of the Democratic Governors' Association.

Governor, thanks very much. Welcome to Washington.

GOV. KATHLEEN SEBELIUS (D), KANSAS: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: All right. So what do you think -- the secretary of health and human services, Mike Leavitt, a man you know. You met with him, you and the other governors, former governor of Utah. Says these aren't really cuts, these are cuts in the projected increases over the next 10 years, but they're still going to be increases.

SEBELIUS: Well, I think that Medicaid is so important in states.

We have about 300,000 Kansans, mostly women and children, who get their health benefits through Medicaid. We have one out of every three births paid for by Medicaid.

So as a governor looking to provide affordable health care and wrap-around services to Kansans, we are very cautious about any changes made in the program that would really limit our ability to provide affordable health care.

BLITZER: What does this mean?

This means that the state of Kansas is going to have to spend more money than it was hoping to spend to deal with those 300,000 people?

SEBELIUS: Absolutely.

Because right now, Medicaid is a federal/state partnership -- 60 cents on every dollar comes from the federal government, 40 cents comes from the state. And we -- biggest health insurer for children, provide services for disabled Kansans, for elderly, poor Kansans, and those populations don't cease to exist because Congress cuts the budget.

BLITZER: So what does that mean practically speaking? You're going to have to take this money to spend on Medicaid, because that's an entitlement, and cut other state spending?

SEBELIUS: That's absolutely correct.

We've got 22 percent of our budget currently focused on Medicaid spending. If the Congress follows the president's recommendation and decreases total dollars, we'll have to spend even more, because people need health care. They're desperate for it.

We need at the state level to take care of our citizens. So, having the president change his mind about, oh, for all expenditures, doesn't remove the needs that the people in Kansas have.

BLITZER: Is this a significant increase in spending for Medicaid that you -- if the president's proposal gets through, or is it just a marginal increase?

SEBELIUS: Actually, it's significant. And the population...

BLITZER: How significant?

SEBELIUS: Well, it's a little hard to tell how that happens over the period of time. The budget's just been proposed and we don't know what all the details are. We'll know a little more next week.

The biggest population that is on Medicaid right now, growing at a rapid rate are older, poor Kansans. Nursing home care is shifted to the states. Their pharmaceutical care has been shifted to the states. So that's a population states never anticipated paying for.

BLITZER: Were you encouraged by what the president said to you today?

SEBELIUS: I'm encouraged by flexibility.

We need some more flexibility from the feds, not to have rigid rules, to take care of people in a more cost-effective way.

And I think governors are very willing to work with Secretary Leavitt to get to programs that really work.

What I'm not encouraged by, if that flexibility comes with big cuts it doesn't leave us much choice.

BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about Social Security. Another huge issue on the agenda. The president spoke out about it earlier today. I want to run a brief clip of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some of you are probably wondering why I took on the Social Security issue. After all, it had been called the third rail of American politics. I am because the demographics have changed dramatically and you're beginning to see it in your states.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: All right. The president says you've got to deal with Social Security right now and he's got a dramatic reform proposal out on the table, not all the specifics are there.

Are you willing to work with the president in the most controversial aspect of that proposal to create these private retirement accounts?

SEBELIUS: Well, I would think governors across the board are -- think that the president may have identified the wrong crisis.

We have a health care crisis in this country. We have millions of Americans without affordable coverage. We have too many people who really are desperate to buy affordable medications and don't know if they can go to the doctor for preventive care.

That's the immediate crisis we deal with day in and day out. So we'd like to shift the focus to the crisis at hand and work down the road on what happens in the future with Social Security.

But I don't think Kansans or governors see that as the crisis that we have to deal with today.

BLITZER: Let me shift gears and talk about something huge in your state, Kansas, the arrest of the suspect in the so-called BTK killings. This is something that people in Kansas have been waiting for, literally, for decades.

SEBELIUS: That's right.

BLITZER: You're convinced that they've got the man?

SEBELIUS: Well, I haven't been briefed by the law enforcement community. I actually was here in D.C. when the capture occurred.

We have excellent law enforcement personnel in Kansas. This has clearly been an ongoing long-term effort.

And from what I understand, they feel fairly confident that they have the right person, and I hope they're right. The community of Wichita has been on edge since this man resurfaced, and certainly safety and security of Kansans is my number one concern.

So I hope we have the right guy.

BLITZER: One final political question for you.

The new chairman of the Democratic Party was in Kansas for the last few days, Howard Dean. He wanted to go to a so-called red state. Kansas, even though you're a Democratic governor, about as red as it gets when it comes to presidential elections.

But you didn't meet with Howard Dean while he was in Kansas. Some are suggesting you didn't want to be seen with him.

SEBELIUS: Actually, that isn't true. I had breakfast with Governor Dean when he came to Kansas and chose to go to the 50th anniversary of Allen Fieldhouse, our great basketball stadium, instead of the evening rally in Lawrence.

But we met. I'm encouraged that he wants a 50-state party, that he is a governor who knew about balanced budgets and delivering affordable health care and worked on education.

So as somebody who knows the job I have and how difficult it is, he's interested in putting some party resources and making them available in states like Kansas, and that's good news.

BLITZER: When are you up for re-election?

SEBELIUS: 2006.

BLITZER: And beyond 2006, are you looking for higher office? A lot of people are floating your name.

SEBELIUS: I'm focused on my day job right now. It keeps me up to speed day in and day out.

BLITZER: But down the road it may be an opportunity, right?

SEBELIUS: You know, I love Kansas. I'm doing exactly what I want to do, which is representing a great state.

BLITZER: Why am I not surprised by that answer?

(LAUGHTER)

Governor Sebelius, thanks very much for joining us.

SEBELIUS: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck to you.

I'm glad they caught the BTK killer, at least the suspect.

SEBELIUS: Yes. Me, too.

BLITZER: He's innocent until proven guilty.

Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, thanks very much.

SEBELIUS: Thank you.

BLITZER: The search for that serial killer that has finally led to that Kansas family man, the recently named head coach of -- recently named head of a local church council.

Within the past hour, CNN's Bob Franken has been digging up new information. Let's go to Bob Franken right now. He's live on the arrest of the BTK serial killer suspect -- Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you just noticed, Wolf, the governor of Kansas, in all due respect, said absolutely nothing when you asked her to comment on the case, and she is following the advice of people who say, don't say anything provocative in a circumstance like this for fear of compromising the case.

And the police chief made it very clear this morning that he wished that others would do that. He called a special briefing to complain bitterly about what he would describe as a media frenzy, and specifically some reports that have appeared in the media that he said are inaccurate, based on false information, could compromise the investigation and the entire case to the point that he's considering legal options.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF NORMAN WILLIAMS, WICHITA POLICE DEPT.: I'm trying to contact the D.A.'s office, and I'm going to be asking the D.A. what legal recourses do we have in regards to information that is inaccurate and inappropriate being disseminated in the community? Because as I mentioned to you before, it is important that we maintain the integrity and the professionalism of this investigation, because if we don't do that, then the work that's been occurring over the last several months goes down the drain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: Now what he was talking about specifically was a report that first appeared in the Associated Press, which said that the police were now linking the person who's been arrested, Dennis Rader, to three more homicides than the ones they said. That would have made it 13. Many news organizations, including CNN, cited the A.P. report before independent reporting found that that was, according to authorities, false information.

He was saying that as a matter of fact this is not the case. He once again categorically denied that the number is 13.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: At this present time, Dennis Rader has been connected with only 10, only 10 homicides that have spanned 31 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: The police chief says that the next thing will be for an arraignment -- not an arraignment, excuse me, that's not the term at all, it is a first preliminary hearing that would precede an arraignment. This is where the charges are read to the defendant, and bail, permanent bail, is completely set. Right now the bond is $10 million, as the chief pointed out $1 million for each of the victims.

BLITZER: And when did you say that hearing was now scheduled to take place, Bob?

FRANKEN: Well, Actually it's not. Under normal circumstances it would be held today. There has been some delay. It could possibly still be held later today. Most are saying it's more likely tomorrow. Among the issues are some lawyer issues, but they're being quite, quite mum about what the specifics are.

BLITZER: CNN's Bob Franken reporting for us from Wichita, Kansas. Bob, thanks very much.

This important note to our viewers: Tonight on a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT, Aaron Brown and CNN correspondents will take you inside the hunt for the serial -- a serial killer. Who exactly is this suspect Dennis Rader? From profilers to the woman who got away to the chilling climax of fear that has gripped Wichita and other areas of Kansas. Don't miss BTK, cracking the case, a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN," 10:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN, in fact, only on CNN.

BLITZER: It was a night of firsts in Hollywood last night, from first-time host Chris Rock to first-time award winners Morgan Freeman and Jamie Foxx. A recap of the star-studded Oscar affair. That and more news from CNN. That's all coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBRA STREISAND, ENTERTAINER: The Oscar goes to...

DUSTIN HOFFMAN, ACTOR: Sorry.

STREISAND: It's OK.

HOFFMAN: Go ahead.

STREISAND: The problem is I forgot my glasses, but...

(LAUGHTER)

I'm so happy to give you this again, Clint.

(CHEERING)

"Million Dollar Baby!"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A golden night for Clint Eastwood and the entire team behind his boxing drama "Million Dollar Baby." It's now the day after in Los Angeles. Many people still getting out of bed or at least they may still be in bed after a star-studded night of parties.

Somebody who is out of bed right now -- CNN pop culture correspondent Toure. He's joining us from L.A. with the highs and lows of last night's Academy Awards. Toure, I suspect you never even got to sleep yet, have you?

TOURE, CNN POP CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, I got a little sleep. I went to Puffy's party for a minute, but I got some rest, definitely, Wolf. BLITZER: Well, that is reassuring to all of us here on CNN. Let's talk a little bit about "Million Dollar Baby," the Best Picture. I suspect none of us should have been all that surprised that film got the award.

TOURE: I wasn't surprised. I mean, for once, the best film of the year won. I mean, I don't think "Lord of the Rings" was the best movie made last year. But this year, as soon as I saw "Million Dollar Baby," I said the Oscar race is over. And you can check the tapes on "AMERICAN MORNING." It wasn't a film, it was an experience. But here's something interesting, Wolf. This is the third time Scorsese has lost to an actor/director.

Robert Redford's kind of ordinary "People" somehow beat "Raging Bull," the greatest sports film ever. Kevin Costner's "Dancing with Wolves" or waltzing with wolves or whatever that crap was called, beat the legendary "Goodfellas," and now Clint has beaten him again. Mark my words, Marty will never win an Oscar till lifetime achievement, which should arrive in 2012, 2015, which will be very deserved. Then again, maybe doing "Taxi Driver II" with De Niro ain't such a bad idea.

BLITZER: All right, well, let's talk about Hilary Swank. She was incredible in "Million Dollar" -- in this film. I mean, it was so painful to watch the film. All of us who saw it, I suspect, you and everybody was at one point tempted to have to walk out, it was so difficult to watch. But it was so incredibly powerful and her performance was simply amazing. I guess there was no great surprise there either.

TOURE: Yes. But I mean, you know how often men cry in movies. And at the end of that movie, I heard a bunch of guys sniffling behind me. I wasn't crying because, you know, I don't do that. But a lot of guys in the theater were crying. Partly because of Hilary, partly because of Clint, a lot because of Morgan Freeman, who won, of course, Best Supporting Actor, like one of the only people in Hollywood who can play God convincingly. So I'm glad he finally got a statue.

BLITZER: He was terrific -- Morgan Freeman, in that film. He's terrific in every film. Let's talk a little bit about the film "Ray" and Jamie Foxx. Best Actor. Once again, Toure, you called this one.

TOURE: Yes. Well, I mean, the Oscars were extraordinarily predictable last night. I went five for six. But I'm not going to pat myself on the back too much, because it kind of knew where it was all going. Of course the Jamie Foxx win took place. We all knew that was going to happen. But to think a year ago, he's making garbage like "Breaking All the Rules" and now he's on Hollywood's A-list. I bet he's right now, as we speak, setting up lunch with Spielberg. But he deserves it. He became Ray.

As opposed to the one real surprise to me of the night, the one I got wrong, the caricature of Kate Hepburn that Cate Blanchett did in "Aviator." What was she doing there? I can't believe they went for that one, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, what did you think? Who did you think was going to get that Oscar?

TOURE: That was the one I really had no idea. I thought maybe Virginia Madsen, although she wasn't the best thing in "Sideways." I thought maybe Sophie Okonedo, but I don't know how many people have seen "Hotel Rwanda." So, I mean, that was the one I didn't know, but I really didn't think Cate Blanchett was going to get it and I think Hollywood kind of booted it on that one.

BLITZER: I would have voted for "Hotel Rwanda" for best film but that's just me. It was an incredible motion picture. Let's talk a little bit about Chris Rock as the emcee, as the host of this spectacle last night. How did he do?

TOURE: Well, spectacular might have been the right word. Matt Drudge is reporting that the Oscar overnight ratings were the highest since 2000. So I think Gil Cates would give rock an A. Now, the show dragged like algebra class for a while except for Rock. I thought he was great.

Some people are saying not as great as they hoped or expected. But come on, he went out and said four-percenters, you can't take your eyes off them, Penelope Cruz and Salma Hayek. I mean, I loved that bit. And the Magic Johnson theater bit reminded of us exactly how far removed Hollywood is from the rest of America. I loved him for that.

BLITZER: All right. Take us behind the scenes, Toure. You're a real insider out there. How were the parties afterwards?

TOURE: I mean, there were a lot of parties. "Vanity Fair" was impossible to get into. Jamie Foxx had a party at the Sky Bar. And I was with somebody who was going to go out with Chris Rock and when Rock said he's not going out, we said well, we can't get into the Jamie Foxx party because that's going to be super tight. So it was a great night for parties. I only went to Puffy's because I don't have enough juice to get in anywhere else.

BLITZER: But isn't it a fact, though, that most people are just up for hours and hours, at least the Hollywood insiders who want to party all through the night?

TOURE: Well, I mean, it depends on what you do. I mean, Rock, I heard, went to one or two things and then he just crashed, he was so tired. He'd initially planned to do an after-set at some comedy club, like his idol Prince would do a big concert and then go to some little club and do a set. But early in the week, he realized, I'm too tired. I can't do any more. So he just said I'm going to bed. There was a lot of great partying. You know, but Wolf, it's the Oscars, right? I mean, this is an American holiday. That's what you're supposed to do.

BLITZER: It certainly is the Oscars. We only have a few seconds left. Was there one moment that will forever stick out in your mind, Toure?

TOURE: You know, I think the confluence of Jamie Foxx getting the award, referencing Sidney Poitier, Oprah like pump-fisting in the crowd. I mean, before the show started, I said, this is going to be the blackest Oscars ever. And Karyn Bryant laughed at me, Karyn Bryant from "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," which airs on Headline News at 7:00 p.m. every night. She laughed at me.

But it was the blackest Oscars ever. There you saw Jay Z, right again, Don Cheadle, Morgan Freeman got a statue. There was a tremendous amount of pride in the hall and in this town for that black people are being really fully included in this mix right now, or at least this year.

BLITZER: All right. Well let's hope it's forever. It's a great moment in American history. The Oscars every year, we love it. Toure, you helped us better appreciate what we all saw last night. Thanks very much.

TOURE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Toure. He's always on "AMERICAN MORNING." Does an excellent job for us. I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

It was 1954, and some of the most dangerous CIA supply mission flights in the world were conducted in and out of what is now Vietnam. Our national security correspondent David Ensor will take a look back on one of the brave men who risked his life trying to save others, and what he remembers most from those harrowing days.

That's coming up on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS," 5:00 p.m. Eastern later today. Until then, thanks very much for watching. News from CNN. "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien, drinking some coffee, getting ready for two and a half hours of live television. That's coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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