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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Congress Holds Hearing on Border Control; Police in New York State Arrest Illegal Aliens Guilty of Sex Crimes
Aired March 03, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, "Broken Borders": Republican and Democratic lawmakers are blasting the Bush administration for its failure to secure our national borders and to prevent illegal aliens from invading this country.
My guest today among those who testified before Congress, T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council.
And the high cost of free trade: a new trade agreement with Central America could not only lead to the export of even more American jobs to cheap labor markets, but it could also spark a massive new influx of illegal aliens into this country.
And is it time to bring back the draft? Our military isn't meeting its recruiting goals. Almost half those serving in Iraq are National Guardsmen and Reservists. I'll be talking with two military experts who say the United States cannot long remain a super power with an all volunteer military.
ANNOUNCER: This is Lou Dobbs for news, debate and opinion tonight.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Lawmakers from the Republican and Democratic parties alike today condemned the Bush administration for not doing enough to protect this country from illegal aliens and terrorists.
Members of Congress strongly criticized President Bush for the administration's failure to hire an adequate number of border patrol agents. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert Bonner admitted he does not have enough agents nor technology to secure or borders.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Federal agents found this suspected smugglers' tunnel about 120 miles east of San Diego. It's five feet high, three feet across. It comes up in the United States, but it starts under a vacant house in Mexicali, Mexico.
Border security was the topic of an emotional hearing on Capitol Hill today.
ROBERT EGGLE, FATHER, SLAIN NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RANGER: The border is tragically broken.
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), TEXAS: We've been talking about adding agents, I think now, for six years. And we have not reached the goals that we need to reach.
PILGRIM: There simply are not enough border patrol agents. The intelligence reform bill called for 2,000 new border agents every year for the next 10 years, but the president's 2006 budget only asks for enough funding for 210 new agents.
T.J. BONNER, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: We beg you, as members of Congress, to give us those additional resources.
PILGRIM: The father of a 23-year-old killed in 9/11 wondered when federal authorities will adequately fund board security.
PETER GADIEL, 9/11 FAMILIES FOR A SECURE AMERICA: Those 19 mass murderers counted on lax scrutiny of their visa applications and overwhelmed inspectors at our ports of entry. Then once here, the terrorists counted on being able to hide in plain sight in an ocean of over 10 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.
PILGRIM: The father of a 28-year-old park service ranger who was killed in a gun battle with drug smugglers on the border talked about the wide-open border fence.
EGGLE: It had terrible holes in it. The smugglers would just drive through it. They wouldn't stop to take time to clip the wires. There was really no barrier. They just drove over it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the Canadian border was a particular focus in today's hearing. Only 1,000 agents patrol it, but it was pointed out if you take into account work shift rotations, they estimate fewer than 300 people are watching 4,000 miles of mostly wilderness at any one time -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this is homeland security. Kitty, thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.
An astonishing illustration tonight of the federal government's apparent unwillingness to protect us from criminal illegal aliens. Police and federal agents in Suffolk County, New York, have arrested 27 illegal aliens convicted of sex crimes against children.
Those illegal aliens, sexual predators were tried and convicted in U.S. courts, but incredibly they were never deported as the law requires.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALVATORE DALESSANDRO, ICE, NEW YORK: The individuals arrested today preyed upon the most vulnerable in our society, our children. Many of the victims of those arrested today were between the ages of 6 to 12, and the oldest was 18.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over: The 27 men arrested by Suffolk County, New York, police and agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE.
The crimes heinous by any measures, crimes for which each have been convicted. There is no question that each committed their crime while they were in this country illegally. There is also no question that after serving their sentences, they were supposed to have been deported, not released back onto the streets of America.
KEVIN LAW, GENERAL COUNSEL, SUFFOLK COUNTY: Why they were released in the first place, I can't answer that question. What I'm saying is we are making sure that no one else slips through the cracks. We're looking at each and every person now.
TUCKER: the cracks that the detective refers to are created by poor coordination and communication between federal authorities and local police. Suffolk County is now working closely with Immigration and Customs Enforcement to crosscheck the immigration status of any criminal under their arrest. If a computer check shows an illegal immigration status, ICE is alerted.
KEN RAU, SUFFOLK COUNTY CHIEF OF DETECTIVE: The days of Suffolk County, this county, looking the other way on illegal immigration when it comes to these types of crimes are over.
TUCKER: The coordination between Suffolk County and federal agents is relatively new. It only began in December.
The goal, to deport every criminal illegal alien when they are finished serving their sentences for their crimes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Unfortunately, deportation doesn't always mean much, nor do secure borders. Consider the case of a man in New York's Long Island, released from prison, deported to his country on December 9 of last year.
This Valentine's Day he was arrested in this country again. He is charged with the murder of a young girl he raped. Lou, he stabbed her to death in her apartment while she was holding an infant from that rape.
DOBBS: The crimes are heinous, the fact that the Suffolk County sheriff would have to say that the days of his department looking the other way when it comes to illegal aliens are over, that is -- that's a remarkable statement.
TUCKER: Well, what has happened, Lou, unfortunately, is there's been poor coordination and communication between the federal authorities and the local police for a variety of reasons. And out in Suffolk County, clearly they've gotten a wake-up call. And I spoke with police out there today. And they say coordination today is radically different from what it was even two months ago. DOBBS: So there is an effort to improve that coordination and communication. And is the search now for sex crime perpetrators, these predators, is it now nationwide?
TUCKER: It is nationwide. It's a 20-month-old program, Lou, and today down in Washington they held a ceremony noting the 5,000th arrest of sexual predators. Most of those people involved in those arrests we are illegal aliens.
DOBBS: Each, as you point out, required by law to be deported, but also as you point out, deportation no guarantee that they will not simply cross our porous borders again when they wish.
Bill Tucker, thank you.
In New Mexico today, four illegal aliens were killed. Nine others injured as they were being smuggled into this country. Thirteen people were packed into a stolen sport utility vehicle. It flipped over just a few miles from the Mexican border. The SUV was fleeing a border patrol agent headed toward the border when the driver lost control.
Later in this broadcast, I'll be talking with the leader of an immigration advocacy group, by the way, a group that's suing New York's Department of Motor Vehicle. That group accuses the DMV of the state of New York of discrimination, because the DMV of the state of New York does not want to give illegal aliens driver's licenses.
Also tonight, the head of the National Border Patrol Council will join us. He says the president's budget is nothing less than shameful.
Border security will be a top issue at a summit meeting to be held later this metropolitan between President Bush, President Vicente Fox of Mexico and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. The White House today announced that meeting will be held March 23 in Texas.
Meanwhile, a new opinion poll shows that most Mexican illegal aliens in this country want to stay here and stay here indefinitely. The survey by the Pew Hispanic Center finds that 59 percent of Mexican illegal aliens either expect to stay in the United States for as long as possible or for the remainder of their lives. Only 27 percent say they expect to say in this country for five years or less.
And in another key finding, that Pew survey found that nearly three-quarters of Mexican illegal aliens support President Bush's plan for a temporary guest worker program, or amnesty as many critics refer to it.
President Bush today made a rare public acknowledgement of another critical threat to this country, the terrorist threat of Osama bin Laden. President Bush hardly ever mentions the al Qaeda leader's name in public these days, but today President Bush declared that Osama bin Laden is the greatest challenge of our day.
White House correspondent Dana Bash reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the swearing-in of the president's new homeland security secretary, a surprise mention of an old nemesis.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're on a constant hunt for bin Laden. We're keeping the pressure on him, keeping him in hiding.
BASH: Why the rare reference? White House officials say bin Laden's name has come up recently in the intelligence briefings, an intercept to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, reiterating the desire to hit the U.S. again.
BUSH: Bin Laden's message is a telling reminder that al Qaeda still hopes to attack us on our own soil. Stopping them is the greatest challenge of our day.
BASH: Some see it as a political message for the new head of homeland security and his employees.
TIM ROEMER, FORMER 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Instead of being criticized for duct tape and color codes, Osama bin Laden's name and Zarqawi's name certainly gets everybody's attention.
BASH: What's striking, not only hearing the president unprompted, uttering the name of America's most wanted, but that he evoked the unsuccessful three-and-a-half-year hunt. After his post- 9/11 promise to find bin Laden proved hard to keep, Mr. Bush tried to make it less personal.
BUSH: And by the way, the war again terror is bigger than any single individual. Oh, I know the news media likes to say, "Where is Osama bin Laden?" He's not the issue.
BASH: Recently, Mr. Bush did single out bin Laden, but mainly in accusing him of stoking the Iraqi insurgency.
BUSH: His vision of the world is where people don't participate in democracy.
BASH: Later at the CIA, the president did not directly answer whether he expects to find bin Laden soon, and once again tried to focus on who they've captured, not just the big fish they can't find.
BUSH: If al Qaeda was, of course, structured like corporate America, you'd have a chairman of the board still in office, but many of the key operators would no longer be around.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Several officials say they see no evidence they're any closer to capturing Osama bin Laden. Instead, aides here insist the president was simply talking about the fight against terrorism with his new lieutenants and saw it as an opportunity for a reminder about enemy number one -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Dana. Dana Bash from the White House.
The United States today strongly criticized a 30-month jail sentence handed down to a leading radical Islamist cleric and convicted terrorists in Indonesia. The cleric-terrorist was found guilty of his conspiracy for his role in the Bali bomb attacks two- and-a-half years ago in which 200 people were killed, many of them tourists from Australia and other western countries.
The U.S. embassy in Jakarta said it is "disappointed" at the sentence, given the gravity of the charges. Again, 200 people dead, a 30-month sentence.
Still ahead, the Army fails to meet a key recruiting goal. Does the military have enough troops to fight the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the war against radical Islamist terror? Is it time to reinstate the draft? I'll be talking with two experts who say it is time.
All of that and a great deal more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Army has failed to meet a key recruiting goal for the first time in nearly five years. The Army expected 7,000 recruits to show up at boot camp last month. Only 5,100 reported for duty. The shortfall is the latest sign that the U.S. military faces rising difficulties finding enough recruits to serve.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, in fact, both of the U.S. military services that provide the troops that serve on the ground in Iraq are suffering some recruiting woes. Both the Army and Marine Corps missed goals for the month of February.
Now, in the Army, for the first time, as you said, in nearly five years, the number of recruits who reported to boot camp was 1,936 short of the Army's goal of just over 7,000. And the Army Reserves missed by 330 their goal of about 1,320.
For the Marines, it was the second straight month of recruiting shortfalls, but these numbers represents by contracts signed by new recruits, as opposed to those who actually show up in boot camp. They were 192 short of the 2,900 goal for February and 84 short of January's 3,270 goal.
Now, the casualty figures continue to mount in Iraq, where over 1,500 -- now 1,502 -- U.S. troops have died in Iraq. And the Pentagon is conceding that that death count is having an affect on recruiting. They say it's not so much with the potential recruits and their reluctance to serve, but with their parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LAWRENCE DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: There's prominent media coverage of casualties in Iraq. Parents factor those kinds of things in to what they want their children doing, and parents I think are still considered, for the purposes of recruiting, one of the strongest influencers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: So it's a big problem when parents are advising their kids not to go into the U.S. military. What's the U.S. doing, the Army doing? They're adding more recruiters, they're increasing bonuses.
Both the Army and the Marine Corps are expressing confidence they're going to meet their goal by the end of the year, but increasingly that's a problem. One of the biggest things that would help, of course, is if the situation in Iraq improved. And there is a positive trend there.
Fewer U.S. troops died in February. About half as many as did in January, 58 compared to 107. And that, though, is a result of the fact that the insurgency is increasingly targeting Iraqis and using less sophisticated bombs, but more powerful bombs, killing more Iraqi civilians and those who are trying to help the U.S. forces. So it's a mixed trend there as well -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, any in the Pentagon acknowledging that the fatality is playing a part in its recruiting shortfall? Any suggestion that extending unilaterally, certainly with a right to do so, although it's generally in fine print in their recruiting contracts, but extending the service of national guardsmen and reservists?
MCINTYRE: Well, they're really trying to avoid that. They've extended those troops several times. It creates a morale problem, particularly with the fact that troops don't know exactly when they're coming home.
They need them to know exactly when their time is up. And, in fact, in this next rotation of troops, there will be a lower percentage of guard and reservists. But the problem is the long-term trend and the fact that the U.S. military is bigger now and may permanently be made bigger. And they're very buys, and that combined with a fairly good economy at the moment is making recruiting about as difficult as it can be.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Later here, I'll be talking with two military experts who say that the Pentagon, the administration and Congress must indeed reintroduce the draft if the United States is to remain the world's super power. I'll also be talking with our military analyst, General David Grange, about precisely the same issues.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll: Do you believe all Americans should share equally responsibility for the cost of government and military service, yes or no? Cast your votes at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here later.
Millionaire Steve Fossett has become the first person to fly around the globe without stopping. Fossett landed this afternoon in Salina, Kansas. Fossett began his journey there Monday in the jet aircraft Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer.
Fossett almost had to abort his trip short -- he almost had to cut it shot after losing 2,600 pounds of fuel, but strong tail-winds made it possible to complete the mission and set the record. In fact, setting several records.
Congratulations, Steve Fossett.
Coming up next, the battle to stop another so-called free trade agreement. Why critics say CAFTA will encourage more illegal aliens to cross our borders and take jobs from Americans.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, our special report on the newest so-called free trade agreement the White House wants to push through Congress. The Central America Free Trade Agreement would, according to its advocates, open up trade between this country and six others. Critics say, however, that it would also open our border to an invasion of millions more in illegal aliens.
Casey Wian has the report from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eleven years ago, the North American Free Trade Agreement was supposed to reduce illegal immigration by cutting poverty in Mexico. So the League of United Latin-American Citizens supported NAFTA.
But NAFTA allowed big corporations to overwhelm Mexican farmers and small businesses. Millions of workers flocked illegally to the United States. That's why LULAC now opposes the Central American Free Trade Agreement, or CAFTA.
GABRIELA LEMUS, LULAC: What we need to do is review the lessons of NAFTA because, at the same time at the macro level, we've seen an expansion of the Mexican economy. At the micro level, we've also seen a dislocation of workers in certain sectors, specifically in agricultural sector, small business sector, as well as in the United States of Latino workers.
WIAN: In fact, in 1999, almost half the U.S. workers who were receiving federal aid because they lost jobs to NAFTA were Latino. Labor leaders believe that CAFTA will destroy more U.S. jobs by encouraging more illegal immigration from Central America. LINDA CHAVEZ-THOMPSON, EXECUTIVE VP, AFL-CIO: Time and time again, when you have a class of workers that is treated in a lesser manner, what it does is it pulls everybody down. Wages are pulled down because employers can say, hey, I can go down the street and I can hire anybody at the lowest wage possible.
WIAN: Union leaders meeting in Las Vegas this week discussed strategies for defeating CAFTA.
ROBERT BAUGH, INDUSTRIAL UNION COUNCIL: We know it doesn't work. NAFTA proved it. We know about the million jobs we lost in this country. We know about the million peasants, small farmers driven off their lands and were driven across our borders to seek work.
WIAN: Wile union leaders believe they have the support to defeat CAFTA in Congress, a State Department official told lawmakers just yesterday that CAFTA remains a major priority for the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: And it's not just U.S. labor leaders who oppose CAFTA. This week in Guatemala 8,000 people, mostly teachers, demonstrated against the proposed deal -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey this is remarkable, LULAC coming out -- coming out against this agreement. Is this the first time they've made this kind of move? Is it purely because they believe Hispanic workers are threatened as a result of what CAFTA would achieve?
WIAN: Absolutely. That's their motivation. It's a big shift for them.
They were strong supporters of NAFTA. They thought it would help Hispanic workers both here and in Mexico. Obviously that has turned out to be not the case. In fact, just the opposite has happened.
So they've learned their lesson. They say they're going to fight against CAFTA. They want better conditions for workers here and workers in Central America, which they say this trade deal will not produce -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.
North Dakota lawmakers are also urging Congress not to approve CAFTA. North Dakota's House and Senate passed a resolution saying CAFTA will devastate North Dakota's sugar industry, one of the largest in this nation.
That resolution also says CAFTA will only encourage a deluge of cheap sugar imports. Incidentally, Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns will visit North Dakota tomorrow. Not to address concerns about CAFTA, but to speak at a Republican Party dinner.
We'll have much more tomorrow evening on the impact of this proposed agreement on our nation's sugar farmers. Next, a former Border Patrol agent who says President Bush's Border Patrol policies are simply shameful.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In just a moment here, the authors of a controversial new article will be here to talk about why they want the United States to reinstate the draft.
Now here are some of the other important stories we're following tonight.
Police in Chicago are searching for these two "persons of interest" in the murders of a federal judge's husband and mother. Chicago Police say they want to interview these men based on statements from witnesses. And meanwhile, a white supremacist who will soon be sentenced for making death threats against the judge is denying responsibility for those murders.
Oil prices could hit $80 a barrel in the next two years, so says a representative of OPEC. OPEC says the spike could be caused by problems with oil supplies. Prices closing again today above $53 after hitting a four-month high briefly.
And health officials warn the flu is spreading and spreading fast. More than half the states in the country are now reporting flu cases. Nine children have died from the flu over the past two months.
More now on our top story. Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill today blasting President Bush for his failure to protect our nation's borders.
Members of the House Subcommittee on Immigration criticized President Bush's plan to fund only 210 new Border Patrol agents when thousands more are needed. One committee member even highlighted our reporting on this critical issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), TEXAS: Immigration does not equate to terrorism. I hope in the future weeks and months to come we'll find common ground to address the concerns of Lou Dobbs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, my next guest shares those concerns, and he testified before the committee today. T.J. Bonner is president of the National Border Patrol Council, and he is an active Border Patrol agent, facing all of the issues that our men and women in the Border Patrol face each day. Joining us from Washington, good to have you with us.
T.J. BONNER, PRES., NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Good to be here. DOBBS: It is interesting to hear Democrats and Republicans alike now focusing on their concerns about border security.
BONNER: Interesting and very heartening. Bear in mind, this is a proposal from the president, and I'm hopeful that the Congress will see the light and do the right thing. This proposal is just shameful. I'm upset both as a citizen and especially as a Border Patrol agent. That's my life and the lives of my fellow Border Patrol agents that are being -- that are on the line every day, and we need reinforcements desperately, and the president is just giving us 5 percent of what the Congress approved last year and the president signed into law.
DOBBS: What is going on here, T.J.? The president is simply ignoring -- and it is not by -- you know, there's no coincidence here, the president has chosen not -- not -- to secure our borders. Why is that decision, as best you can under it, going on?
BONNER: I have no idea why he cannot make the connection between border security and homeland security. It's clear as day to everyone else.
DOBBS: Well, is it because we also have Democrats and Republicans in Congress who have not insisted on either border security and demanded it, because certainly they can in a common voice, nor have they insisted upon real reform of our immigration laws, if they are such, and certainly not to enforce those laws.
BONNER: I think there's enough blame to be spread all around Capitol Hill, but the president has to take a leadership role in this, and he simply hasn't.
DOBBS: What does it do to the morale of our Border Patrol agents to see, as you said, a 5 percent increase in what has been authorized in Border Patrol funding for agents?
BONNER: It takes morale that's already at the lowest point that I have ever seen it in my 27-year career, and it plunges it even further, if that were possible, and it is.
DOBBS: You pointed out that there's some reason for hope here. You have been working on these issues in Washington for some time now. Do you believe that there has been a breakthrough now amongst the members of Congress?
BONNER: It's very heartening to see the members on both sides of the aisle join together in recognition of the fact that we need a lot more personnel down on the border, to help secure our border, and speak with one voice. And I'm hopeful that we will have that restored, as well as the $80 million that the president is proposing to cut from the Border Patrol's budget this year. That, in addition to the $20 million that he did cut last year.
DOBBS: Remarkable. T.J. Bonner, we thank you for being here.
BONNER: Thank you for having me. DOBBS: More now on a story we've been following closely in New York State. It has implications, of course, for much of the country, if not the entire nation. The New York Department of Motor Vehicles has launched a crackdown on people using fake Social Security numbers to obtain New York State driver's licenses. That crackdown has led to the suspension of thousands of licenses, many of them belonging -- most of them belonging to illegal aliens. That prompted a lawsuit from the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, accusing the DMV, in fact, of discrimination. DMV Commissioner Raymond Martinez was our guest here two nights ago to deny those charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAYMOND MARTINEZ, NY DMV COMMISSIONER: We require current, valid and verifiable documents before we issue that New York State driver's license or non-driver ID. It has nothing to do with whether they're legal or illegal. And if they can't meet that standard, that's not our problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: I'm joined now by the head of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, Cesar Perales. Good to have you with us.
CESAR PERALES, PUERTO RICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND: Nice to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: The idea -- did you -- you just heard what Mr. Martinez said. Are you satisfied...
PERALES: He wasn't accurate.
DOBBS: He wasn't?
PERALES: He's clearly asking for proof of legal presence before allowing people to renew their licenses, and that is not the law in New York State, so that our lawsuit, incidentally, was not based on race discrimination, as you suggest, but rather that the commissioner, his bureaucracy is acting without legal authority.
DOBBS: Well, actually I was quoting from your attorneys who said it was discrimination, and, two, that they were acting without proper authorization by law. But let's talk about that. Are you suggesting that the intention of the New York State legislature is to...
PERALES: No, no, I'm suggesting that we need the New York State legislature to say, this is the law. If you are not lawfully present, you should not have a driver's license. New York is one of 12 states that does not require that you be legally in this country to get a driver's license.
DOBBS: Does the New York State law, Cesar, say that if you are -- it's OK -- or does it overtly state that it's OK not to be a citizen?
PERALES: No, no, it is silent. DOBBS: Yes, OK. And being silent, it raises a host of issues by implication, does it not? Amongst them, the fact that if an illegal alien obtains a New York State's driver's license, it is entirely proper for them to vote in the state?
PERALES: No. I would hope that when you went to register to vote, you would be asked for a lot more than just a driver's license.
DOBBS: Well, you and I share and differ on many hopes, but in point of fact, in New York State, presenting your driver's license is sufficient, sufficient identification to register to vote.
PERALES: Lou, I don't think that anyone has been alleging that there are large numbers of undocumented people voting. I think what has happened here is that we have a very strong anti-immigrant sentiment. I've been watching your show. You're an effective voice. You're -- there is a movement in this country. And I think that's what pushed the bureaucracy in New York State, to say well, from now on, we are not going to give licenses to people who can't prove that they are lawfully here.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you, you take me to be an anti-immigrant voice?
PERALES: Yes.
DOBBS: You do? Have you ever once heard me say a word about an immigrant?
PERALES: Well, let me suggest this, when what we see on the program is a dozen men being paraded -- identified as sexual predators...
DOBBS: Right. Actually, it was 27.
PERALES: And only -- 27, and only then in Suffolk County, when we know that there are probably 1,000 sexual predators, people convicted of these crimes in the county. Don't you think that there is a connection in people's minds that these immigrants are, quote, "sexual predators?" This begins to build up in people's minds. I mean, it's very clear.
DOBBS: So you're trying to protect an unwashed public from...
PERALES: Not at all. Not at all. I would like my voice to be as strong as yours. I don't think that it will be, but...
DOBBS: I want to give you every opportunity, because what I'm really hearing you is that I'm anti-immigrant. And I want to be very clear. I'm anti-illegal immigration.
PERALES: OK.
DOBBS: I love immigrants. I absolutely adore our history. I cherish our history, because we are a nation of immigrants.
PERALES: Wonderful.
DOBBS: But the idea that you would take the language and twist it and pervert it to your interest as an advocate for open borders is...
PERALES: No, I don't advocate open borders.
DOBBS: Of course you do. Of course you do.
PERALES: I don't.
DOBBS: Because you are insisting that illegal aliens should have the right to a driver's license, because the legislature of the state of New York is silent. In point of fact, that is prima facie evidence of citizenship, and it's wrong.
PERALES: No, no.
DOBBS: And secondly, it also gives you not only the right to vote, but to present that driver's license, you can serve on a jury in New York City, can't you? Can't you?
PERALES: Lou, you're creating a possibility that we know that the way you get to sit on a jury is that you're on the voting rolls, and you come in...
DOBBS: In New York State, you are also called from the driver's license, and you could also be on the voting rolls because you have that driver's license. So either way, Cesar, you have a problem.
PERALES: You may be right.
DOBBS: I am right.
PERALES: But I don't think that's the issue.
DOBBS: No, the issue is you said I was anti-immigrant. I want to assure you, I love immigrants. I love immigrants.
PERALES: And let us make the analogy.
DOBBS: OK.
PERALES: We now venerate the people who now came through Ellis Island 100 years ago. They are very similar...
DOBBS: I venerate all Americans.
PERALES: ... to the people who come here today, who want to work, who share the same values, the same ambitions, people who bring us family values...
DOBBS: The violins are starting to move so high.
PERALES: You're starting with the violins, Lou, you started with the love. DOBBS: Because you said I'm anti-immigrant. I want to tell you it is entirely opposite, because you were spewing hate.
PERALES: I was spewing hate?
DOBBS: You were saying I'm anti-immigrant.
PERALES: That's not hate.
DOBBS: Of course it is. What would you call it?
PERALES: No, no, a characterization.
DOBBS: What would you call it?
PERALES: It's a characterization...
DOBBS: A characterization.
PERALES: ... based on what I saw.
DOBBS: But don't you understand that citizenship either is cherished in this country or it means nothing, and if you or anyone else suggests that our law should be indifferent to citizenship as a condition for the rights, the privileges and the responsibilities in this country, how can you possibly rationalize that view?
PERALES: No, on the contrary, I come here saying I'm trying to uphold the law, that New York State has violated the law. It has not provided due process to these people.
DOBBS: And now we're at due -- now we're at due process?
PERALES: That's right.
DOBBS: Excuse me, I'm lost. If a person is an illegal alien who has crossed our borders illegally, is in this country illegally, help me out -- what is their entitlement?
PERALES: They are entitled to due process.
DOBBS: By the way, I would not deny anyone due process, but I'm trying to understand how you're confusing due process and entitlement.
PERALES: I'm not suggesting that.
DOBBS: Yes you are.
PERALES: If you have a driver's license and you take it away without giving somebody an opportunity to defend himself, then that is the violation of due process.
DOBBS: I'm sorry. You have people walking into a state office and giving them a false Social Security number, and you're saying that that isn't criminal?
PERALES: Well, it is...
DOBBS: Well, it is criminal.
PERALES: I didn't say it was criminal.
DOBBS: I did.
PERALES: You could say going fishing without a fishing license you might characterize as criminal.
DOBBS: Yes, I would characterize it as criminal.
(CROSSTALK)
At what point, Cesar, will your relativism overwhelm this country? When we have 30 million illegal aliens in it? At what point?
PERALES: I side with Alan Greenspan, with the economists that support our president, and that say these people are providing a powerful economic engine, they are helping our country.
DOBBS: Listen, I have worked with migrant workers, many of whom were illegal in my youth. OK? I'm not denigrating their efforts, their work, in many cases their motives, OK. But what I am saying to you is, that if your view that one who wants border security, wants legal migration into this country, is to be simply dismissed, because it's convenient to your...
PERALES: Not at all.
DOBBS: Let me finish -- to your interest, then we're doomed here.
PERALES: I'm not dismissing it at all.
DOBBS: And to call people who are concerned about border security and stopping illegal immigration with 20 million illegal aliens in this country, 3 million last year, to call them anti- immigrant is horrible I think on your part.
PERALES: I don't think it's horrible.
DOBBS: I do, because it's offensive. I would never say something like...
PERALES: I certainly didn't want to come here to offend you.
DOBBS: That's all right. But it's a device. And it's an artifice on those who try to support illegal immigration and open borders.
PERALES: Let me posture something.
DOBBS: Please.
PERALES: If the laws that are in effect today were in effect when people were coming to Ellis Island, they would have been characterized, in your language, as illegals.
DOBBS: I have to take the world as it is. And the world is this -- we have 20 illegal aliens in the country. We have wages being depressed because Lulac has come out against CAFTA because of its concerned of the impact on the latino workers in this country. It's not a racial issue. It is not a legal migration issue. We're talking about the good of the nation, respect for the citizenship, respect for the country.
PERALES: What we're disagreeing on is what's good for the nation. What I am suggesting is just...
DOBBS: The illegality is not.
PERALES: What I am suggesting is that the fervor, the commitment that these people have when they come to this country to work, is something to be valued and to be cherished. They should be given an opportunity. Now, that does not mean I advocate open borders. They're here now.
DOBBS: But you're a de facto advocate, if you will. We're going to have to take this up.
Cesar Perales, we thank you for being here. Come back soon. We'll have the discussion. We're way out of time. We've gone over. And we've got some issues to get -- I'm sure we can get through these issues.
PERALES: All right. I'll give you the opportunity.
DOBBS: And I think you think the inverse. Thanks for being here.
Coming up next, the case for reinstating the draft. We'll be joined by 2 military experts say it is time if we're to remain a super power. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our military, without question, is stretched almost to the breaking point by wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the global war on radical Islamist terrorism. The latest Pentagon figures show the military finding it much harder to recruit enough troops. For some military expert, that means Congress has only one choice, that is, to reintroduce the draft.
Writing in the magazine Washington Monthly, Paul Glastris and Phillip Carter declare that America cannot long remain a super power with merely an all volunteer military. Paul Glastris, Phillip Carter join me now.
Also joining us, gentleman, if it's OK with you, is General David Grange, our military analyst. We're a little bit pinched for time, do you mind a 4-way discussion here, if you will?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A general outranks a journalist anyday. DOBBS: Well, it certainly in the case of General David Grange, by a wide, wide margin.
It's good to have you all here.
Let me turn first, if I may, Phillip, to the reason for reinstating the draft, simply because we've had a shortfall here temporarily, what would be the reason for suggesting the draft?
PHILLIP CARTER, JOURNALIST: Well, I don't think it's the current shortfall, but the long view that makes us suggest it. You see, for the last century or so, every 10 or 20 years, this country has had to send half a million men or more around the world in its pursuit of national security. And I think we have to put those structures in place to produce that force now before the need becomes acute.
DOBBS: And Paul, you concur with that, obviously, as the coauthor. But the idea of a draft, I think back to the tremors that went through society during Vietnam. And the removal of the draft, young men and women sighing with relief. Do you really want to bring that back? Is there a way to ensure it's absolutely equitable?
PAUL GLASTRIS, JOURNALIST: I think the draft like military fighting itself has to change with the times. And we don't need the mass conscription for combat that we had in World War II or the inequitable draft in Vietnam. What we need is a 21st Century draft that basically says all young people, college-bound people ought to serve their country, either in a civilian role, or if they choose a military role.
If you did that, and some portion of those who chose mandatory national service chose the military, then you would have volunteers, because they chose military service over other kinds of service in numbers that I think would provide the peacekeeping forces, the large number of peacekeepers, truck drivers and MPS that are currently missing from the force, the surge capacity that the military from time to time needs, so that you wouldn't have to raise the size of the current active-duty force, which is right now about fine for the task.
DOBBS: I'm not sure I would agree with you on that one. Let's find out what General David Grange says about this. I know, Dave, you have some strong feelings on these issues.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Right, Lou. I don't like the draft as was, the antiquated draft of the past. It won't fit today's world or the people of the United States. But some type of national service, where you have flexibility from say ages 18 to 28, so in a ten-year span, you can pick how you will serve your country, men and women, equitable, all types of people throughout the country, and then for each year you give in some type of service, you're rewarded with education or another benefit, that way you can sustain this fight. I believe we're already past a critical point and somehow we got to get more people, but not the old-type draft.
DOBBS: It's interesting that General Grange agrees with you gentlemen and your article that's appearing in "Washington Monthly," because obviously the Pentagon led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is vehemently opposed to the view of not only the draft, but the fact that we would need more people. Paul, you just said, you think we're at about the right force level. Square that up a little bit with a call for a draft.
GLASTRIS: We're at the right force level to fight combat. We're not at the -- we can win wars with the forces we have. We can not secure the peace with the forces we have. I'm all for, perhaps, upping the size of the active-duty military, if the military thinks that's what's important. But I think these military gentlemen with me will say that, that there's a limit how many -- how big the active duty -- all-volunteer military can be. And what is needed is not more infantrymen, more combat soldiers. What is -- what is needed is search capacity in this peacekeeping function. And that I think you can get in no way better than in this 21st century draft that we're talking about.
DOBBS: Phillip, the idea of burden-sharing in this country, it is without question and perhaps has always been so, but we have the capacity now to right past wrongs, the burdens are not equally shared in this society of ours. Is the draft a way, national service a way to bring about an equal sacrifice from all elements, members of society in this nation?
CARTER: Yes, Lou, I think that's one of it's greatest virtues. You know, today the burden is deep, but it's not wide. You have communities like Oceanside, California, home to Camp Pendleton and the Marines or the 1st Mech, that are taking one-sixth of the total fatalities from Iraq. That's a staggering amount, but it's being borne by one small -- part of America.
And our democracy depends on constituencies to make anything happen in Washington. When such a narrow part of the country bears the cost of war, our Democratic system really breaks down and it suffers. So I think spreading the burden more equitably will do a lot to make our nation embrace this cause. And will also do a lot more to help our leaders in Washington understand the true cost of it.
DOBBS: And each of us focusing strongly on the decisions taken in Washington, because we know we will be taking responsibility.
General David Grange, you get a quick last word, if you will, sir.
GRANGE: The last thing I'd like to say, is that the active-duty side of the force is also too small. You need a professional cadre of the right size to take on these global requirements.
DOBBS: Phillip Carter, Paul Glastris, we thank you for your provocative article in "Washington Monthly." General Grange, as always, good have you here.
GRANGE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Next a look at some of "Your thoughts" on the illegal immigration crisis facing this country. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Taking a look now at some of "Your Thoughts."
Tim O'Hara in Ocean City, New Jersey, "First we had NAFTA and we lost jobs to Mexico. Now they want CAFTA and we will lose jobs to Central America. Next is HAFTA, that is when you have HAFTA go to another country to get a job."
And Marilyn in Clinton, Connecticut, "Maybe if we stopped sending our jobs overseas we could have people in the U.S. working and paying into Social Security, which would help keep Social Security a bit more secure. Also, if we stopped giving money to people illegally entering our country we might even be able to fix Medicaid."
And Michael Kramer in Lake Worth, Florida, "I believe that we can curtail the use of illegal aliens in this country by fining the companies that use them. If the risk to these companies is great enough they will seek legal means to hire these people. This must be part of any legislation that the government will enact to rectify this problem."
Send us "Your Thoughts" at loudobbs@cnn.com. We love to hear from you. Still ahead the results of our poll tonight, and preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of our poll tonight, 79 percent of you responding say, all Americans should share responsibility for the cost of government and military service. Twenty-one percent have a problem with that.
Thanks for being with us tonight, please join us here tomorrow. I'll be talking with one border state congressman, who says our southern border is under siege from illegal aliens and vulnerable to terrorist as well. And in our weekly feature, celebrating the men and women who served. One soldiers quick reaction saving his unit from disaster. We'll have his incredible story. All that and a great deal -- a great deal more tomorrow.
Please be with us. For all of us here, good night from New York, "ANDERSON COOPER" 360 is next.
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Aired March 3, 2005 - 18:00 ET
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LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, "Broken Borders": Republican and Democratic lawmakers are blasting the Bush administration for its failure to secure our national borders and to prevent illegal aliens from invading this country.
My guest today among those who testified before Congress, T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council.
And the high cost of free trade: a new trade agreement with Central America could not only lead to the export of even more American jobs to cheap labor markets, but it could also spark a massive new influx of illegal aliens into this country.
And is it time to bring back the draft? Our military isn't meeting its recruiting goals. Almost half those serving in Iraq are National Guardsmen and Reservists. I'll be talking with two military experts who say the United States cannot long remain a super power with an all volunteer military.
ANNOUNCER: This is Lou Dobbs for news, debate and opinion tonight.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Lawmakers from the Republican and Democratic parties alike today condemned the Bush administration for not doing enough to protect this country from illegal aliens and terrorists.
Members of Congress strongly criticized President Bush for the administration's failure to hire an adequate number of border patrol agents. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert Bonner admitted he does not have enough agents nor technology to secure or borders.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Federal agents found this suspected smugglers' tunnel about 120 miles east of San Diego. It's five feet high, three feet across. It comes up in the United States, but it starts under a vacant house in Mexicali, Mexico.
Border security was the topic of an emotional hearing on Capitol Hill today.
ROBERT EGGLE, FATHER, SLAIN NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RANGER: The border is tragically broken.
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), TEXAS: We've been talking about adding agents, I think now, for six years. And we have not reached the goals that we need to reach.
PILGRIM: There simply are not enough border patrol agents. The intelligence reform bill called for 2,000 new border agents every year for the next 10 years, but the president's 2006 budget only asks for enough funding for 210 new agents.
T.J. BONNER, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: We beg you, as members of Congress, to give us those additional resources.
PILGRIM: The father of a 23-year-old killed in 9/11 wondered when federal authorities will adequately fund board security.
PETER GADIEL, 9/11 FAMILIES FOR A SECURE AMERICA: Those 19 mass murderers counted on lax scrutiny of their visa applications and overwhelmed inspectors at our ports of entry. Then once here, the terrorists counted on being able to hide in plain sight in an ocean of over 10 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.
PILGRIM: The father of a 28-year-old park service ranger who was killed in a gun battle with drug smugglers on the border talked about the wide-open border fence.
EGGLE: It had terrible holes in it. The smugglers would just drive through it. They wouldn't stop to take time to clip the wires. There was really no barrier. They just drove over it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the Canadian border was a particular focus in today's hearing. Only 1,000 agents patrol it, but it was pointed out if you take into account work shift rotations, they estimate fewer than 300 people are watching 4,000 miles of mostly wilderness at any one time -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this is homeland security. Kitty, thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.
An astonishing illustration tonight of the federal government's apparent unwillingness to protect us from criminal illegal aliens. Police and federal agents in Suffolk County, New York, have arrested 27 illegal aliens convicted of sex crimes against children.
Those illegal aliens, sexual predators were tried and convicted in U.S. courts, but incredibly they were never deported as the law requires.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALVATORE DALESSANDRO, ICE, NEW YORK: The individuals arrested today preyed upon the most vulnerable in our society, our children. Many of the victims of those arrested today were between the ages of 6 to 12, and the oldest was 18.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over: The 27 men arrested by Suffolk County, New York, police and agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE.
The crimes heinous by any measures, crimes for which each have been convicted. There is no question that each committed their crime while they were in this country illegally. There is also no question that after serving their sentences, they were supposed to have been deported, not released back onto the streets of America.
KEVIN LAW, GENERAL COUNSEL, SUFFOLK COUNTY: Why they were released in the first place, I can't answer that question. What I'm saying is we are making sure that no one else slips through the cracks. We're looking at each and every person now.
TUCKER: the cracks that the detective refers to are created by poor coordination and communication between federal authorities and local police. Suffolk County is now working closely with Immigration and Customs Enforcement to crosscheck the immigration status of any criminal under their arrest. If a computer check shows an illegal immigration status, ICE is alerted.
KEN RAU, SUFFOLK COUNTY CHIEF OF DETECTIVE: The days of Suffolk County, this county, looking the other way on illegal immigration when it comes to these types of crimes are over.
TUCKER: The coordination between Suffolk County and federal agents is relatively new. It only began in December.
The goal, to deport every criminal illegal alien when they are finished serving their sentences for their crimes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Unfortunately, deportation doesn't always mean much, nor do secure borders. Consider the case of a man in New York's Long Island, released from prison, deported to his country on December 9 of last year.
This Valentine's Day he was arrested in this country again. He is charged with the murder of a young girl he raped. Lou, he stabbed her to death in her apartment while she was holding an infant from that rape.
DOBBS: The crimes are heinous, the fact that the Suffolk County sheriff would have to say that the days of his department looking the other way when it comes to illegal aliens are over, that is -- that's a remarkable statement.
TUCKER: Well, what has happened, Lou, unfortunately, is there's been poor coordination and communication between the federal authorities and the local police for a variety of reasons. And out in Suffolk County, clearly they've gotten a wake-up call. And I spoke with police out there today. And they say coordination today is radically different from what it was even two months ago. DOBBS: So there is an effort to improve that coordination and communication. And is the search now for sex crime perpetrators, these predators, is it now nationwide?
TUCKER: It is nationwide. It's a 20-month-old program, Lou, and today down in Washington they held a ceremony noting the 5,000th arrest of sexual predators. Most of those people involved in those arrests we are illegal aliens.
DOBBS: Each, as you point out, required by law to be deported, but also as you point out, deportation no guarantee that they will not simply cross our porous borders again when they wish.
Bill Tucker, thank you.
In New Mexico today, four illegal aliens were killed. Nine others injured as they were being smuggled into this country. Thirteen people were packed into a stolen sport utility vehicle. It flipped over just a few miles from the Mexican border. The SUV was fleeing a border patrol agent headed toward the border when the driver lost control.
Later in this broadcast, I'll be talking with the leader of an immigration advocacy group, by the way, a group that's suing New York's Department of Motor Vehicle. That group accuses the DMV of the state of New York of discrimination, because the DMV of the state of New York does not want to give illegal aliens driver's licenses.
Also tonight, the head of the National Border Patrol Council will join us. He says the president's budget is nothing less than shameful.
Border security will be a top issue at a summit meeting to be held later this metropolitan between President Bush, President Vicente Fox of Mexico and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. The White House today announced that meeting will be held March 23 in Texas.
Meanwhile, a new opinion poll shows that most Mexican illegal aliens in this country want to stay here and stay here indefinitely. The survey by the Pew Hispanic Center finds that 59 percent of Mexican illegal aliens either expect to stay in the United States for as long as possible or for the remainder of their lives. Only 27 percent say they expect to say in this country for five years or less.
And in another key finding, that Pew survey found that nearly three-quarters of Mexican illegal aliens support President Bush's plan for a temporary guest worker program, or amnesty as many critics refer to it.
President Bush today made a rare public acknowledgement of another critical threat to this country, the terrorist threat of Osama bin Laden. President Bush hardly ever mentions the al Qaeda leader's name in public these days, but today President Bush declared that Osama bin Laden is the greatest challenge of our day.
White House correspondent Dana Bash reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the swearing-in of the president's new homeland security secretary, a surprise mention of an old nemesis.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're on a constant hunt for bin Laden. We're keeping the pressure on him, keeping him in hiding.
BASH: Why the rare reference? White House officials say bin Laden's name has come up recently in the intelligence briefings, an intercept to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, reiterating the desire to hit the U.S. again.
BUSH: Bin Laden's message is a telling reminder that al Qaeda still hopes to attack us on our own soil. Stopping them is the greatest challenge of our day.
BASH: Some see it as a political message for the new head of homeland security and his employees.
TIM ROEMER, FORMER 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Instead of being criticized for duct tape and color codes, Osama bin Laden's name and Zarqawi's name certainly gets everybody's attention.
BASH: What's striking, not only hearing the president unprompted, uttering the name of America's most wanted, but that he evoked the unsuccessful three-and-a-half-year hunt. After his post- 9/11 promise to find bin Laden proved hard to keep, Mr. Bush tried to make it less personal.
BUSH: And by the way, the war again terror is bigger than any single individual. Oh, I know the news media likes to say, "Where is Osama bin Laden?" He's not the issue.
BASH: Recently, Mr. Bush did single out bin Laden, but mainly in accusing him of stoking the Iraqi insurgency.
BUSH: His vision of the world is where people don't participate in democracy.
BASH: Later at the CIA, the president did not directly answer whether he expects to find bin Laden soon, and once again tried to focus on who they've captured, not just the big fish they can't find.
BUSH: If al Qaeda was, of course, structured like corporate America, you'd have a chairman of the board still in office, but many of the key operators would no longer be around.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Several officials say they see no evidence they're any closer to capturing Osama bin Laden. Instead, aides here insist the president was simply talking about the fight against terrorism with his new lieutenants and saw it as an opportunity for a reminder about enemy number one -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Dana. Dana Bash from the White House.
The United States today strongly criticized a 30-month jail sentence handed down to a leading radical Islamist cleric and convicted terrorists in Indonesia. The cleric-terrorist was found guilty of his conspiracy for his role in the Bali bomb attacks two- and-a-half years ago in which 200 people were killed, many of them tourists from Australia and other western countries.
The U.S. embassy in Jakarta said it is "disappointed" at the sentence, given the gravity of the charges. Again, 200 people dead, a 30-month sentence.
Still ahead, the Army fails to meet a key recruiting goal. Does the military have enough troops to fight the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the war against radical Islamist terror? Is it time to reinstate the draft? I'll be talking with two experts who say it is time.
All of that and a great deal more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Army has failed to meet a key recruiting goal for the first time in nearly five years. The Army expected 7,000 recruits to show up at boot camp last month. Only 5,100 reported for duty. The shortfall is the latest sign that the U.S. military faces rising difficulties finding enough recruits to serve.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, in fact, both of the U.S. military services that provide the troops that serve on the ground in Iraq are suffering some recruiting woes. Both the Army and Marine Corps missed goals for the month of February.
Now, in the Army, for the first time, as you said, in nearly five years, the number of recruits who reported to boot camp was 1,936 short of the Army's goal of just over 7,000. And the Army Reserves missed by 330 their goal of about 1,320.
For the Marines, it was the second straight month of recruiting shortfalls, but these numbers represents by contracts signed by new recruits, as opposed to those who actually show up in boot camp. They were 192 short of the 2,900 goal for February and 84 short of January's 3,270 goal.
Now, the casualty figures continue to mount in Iraq, where over 1,500 -- now 1,502 -- U.S. troops have died in Iraq. And the Pentagon is conceding that that death count is having an affect on recruiting. They say it's not so much with the potential recruits and their reluctance to serve, but with their parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LAWRENCE DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: There's prominent media coverage of casualties in Iraq. Parents factor those kinds of things in to what they want their children doing, and parents I think are still considered, for the purposes of recruiting, one of the strongest influencers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: So it's a big problem when parents are advising their kids not to go into the U.S. military. What's the U.S. doing, the Army doing? They're adding more recruiters, they're increasing bonuses.
Both the Army and the Marine Corps are expressing confidence they're going to meet their goal by the end of the year, but increasingly that's a problem. One of the biggest things that would help, of course, is if the situation in Iraq improved. And there is a positive trend there.
Fewer U.S. troops died in February. About half as many as did in January, 58 compared to 107. And that, though, is a result of the fact that the insurgency is increasingly targeting Iraqis and using less sophisticated bombs, but more powerful bombs, killing more Iraqi civilians and those who are trying to help the U.S. forces. So it's a mixed trend there as well -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, any in the Pentagon acknowledging that the fatality is playing a part in its recruiting shortfall? Any suggestion that extending unilaterally, certainly with a right to do so, although it's generally in fine print in their recruiting contracts, but extending the service of national guardsmen and reservists?
MCINTYRE: Well, they're really trying to avoid that. They've extended those troops several times. It creates a morale problem, particularly with the fact that troops don't know exactly when they're coming home.
They need them to know exactly when their time is up. And, in fact, in this next rotation of troops, there will be a lower percentage of guard and reservists. But the problem is the long-term trend and the fact that the U.S. military is bigger now and may permanently be made bigger. And they're very buys, and that combined with a fairly good economy at the moment is making recruiting about as difficult as it can be.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Later here, I'll be talking with two military experts who say that the Pentagon, the administration and Congress must indeed reintroduce the draft if the United States is to remain the world's super power. I'll also be talking with our military analyst, General David Grange, about precisely the same issues.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll: Do you believe all Americans should share equally responsibility for the cost of government and military service, yes or no? Cast your votes at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here later.
Millionaire Steve Fossett has become the first person to fly around the globe without stopping. Fossett landed this afternoon in Salina, Kansas. Fossett began his journey there Monday in the jet aircraft Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer.
Fossett almost had to abort his trip short -- he almost had to cut it shot after losing 2,600 pounds of fuel, but strong tail-winds made it possible to complete the mission and set the record. In fact, setting several records.
Congratulations, Steve Fossett.
Coming up next, the battle to stop another so-called free trade agreement. Why critics say CAFTA will encourage more illegal aliens to cross our borders and take jobs from Americans.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, our special report on the newest so-called free trade agreement the White House wants to push through Congress. The Central America Free Trade Agreement would, according to its advocates, open up trade between this country and six others. Critics say, however, that it would also open our border to an invasion of millions more in illegal aliens.
Casey Wian has the report from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eleven years ago, the North American Free Trade Agreement was supposed to reduce illegal immigration by cutting poverty in Mexico. So the League of United Latin-American Citizens supported NAFTA.
But NAFTA allowed big corporations to overwhelm Mexican farmers and small businesses. Millions of workers flocked illegally to the United States. That's why LULAC now opposes the Central American Free Trade Agreement, or CAFTA.
GABRIELA LEMUS, LULAC: What we need to do is review the lessons of NAFTA because, at the same time at the macro level, we've seen an expansion of the Mexican economy. At the micro level, we've also seen a dislocation of workers in certain sectors, specifically in agricultural sector, small business sector, as well as in the United States of Latino workers.
WIAN: In fact, in 1999, almost half the U.S. workers who were receiving federal aid because they lost jobs to NAFTA were Latino. Labor leaders believe that CAFTA will destroy more U.S. jobs by encouraging more illegal immigration from Central America. LINDA CHAVEZ-THOMPSON, EXECUTIVE VP, AFL-CIO: Time and time again, when you have a class of workers that is treated in a lesser manner, what it does is it pulls everybody down. Wages are pulled down because employers can say, hey, I can go down the street and I can hire anybody at the lowest wage possible.
WIAN: Union leaders meeting in Las Vegas this week discussed strategies for defeating CAFTA.
ROBERT BAUGH, INDUSTRIAL UNION COUNCIL: We know it doesn't work. NAFTA proved it. We know about the million jobs we lost in this country. We know about the million peasants, small farmers driven off their lands and were driven across our borders to seek work.
WIAN: Wile union leaders believe they have the support to defeat CAFTA in Congress, a State Department official told lawmakers just yesterday that CAFTA remains a major priority for the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: And it's not just U.S. labor leaders who oppose CAFTA. This week in Guatemala 8,000 people, mostly teachers, demonstrated against the proposed deal -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey this is remarkable, LULAC coming out -- coming out against this agreement. Is this the first time they've made this kind of move? Is it purely because they believe Hispanic workers are threatened as a result of what CAFTA would achieve?
WIAN: Absolutely. That's their motivation. It's a big shift for them.
They were strong supporters of NAFTA. They thought it would help Hispanic workers both here and in Mexico. Obviously that has turned out to be not the case. In fact, just the opposite has happened.
So they've learned their lesson. They say they're going to fight against CAFTA. They want better conditions for workers here and workers in Central America, which they say this trade deal will not produce -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.
North Dakota lawmakers are also urging Congress not to approve CAFTA. North Dakota's House and Senate passed a resolution saying CAFTA will devastate North Dakota's sugar industry, one of the largest in this nation.
That resolution also says CAFTA will only encourage a deluge of cheap sugar imports. Incidentally, Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns will visit North Dakota tomorrow. Not to address concerns about CAFTA, but to speak at a Republican Party dinner.
We'll have much more tomorrow evening on the impact of this proposed agreement on our nation's sugar farmers. Next, a former Border Patrol agent who says President Bush's Border Patrol policies are simply shameful.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In just a moment here, the authors of a controversial new article will be here to talk about why they want the United States to reinstate the draft.
Now here are some of the other important stories we're following tonight.
Police in Chicago are searching for these two "persons of interest" in the murders of a federal judge's husband and mother. Chicago Police say they want to interview these men based on statements from witnesses. And meanwhile, a white supremacist who will soon be sentenced for making death threats against the judge is denying responsibility for those murders.
Oil prices could hit $80 a barrel in the next two years, so says a representative of OPEC. OPEC says the spike could be caused by problems with oil supplies. Prices closing again today above $53 after hitting a four-month high briefly.
And health officials warn the flu is spreading and spreading fast. More than half the states in the country are now reporting flu cases. Nine children have died from the flu over the past two months.
More now on our top story. Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill today blasting President Bush for his failure to protect our nation's borders.
Members of the House Subcommittee on Immigration criticized President Bush's plan to fund only 210 new Border Patrol agents when thousands more are needed. One committee member even highlighted our reporting on this critical issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), TEXAS: Immigration does not equate to terrorism. I hope in the future weeks and months to come we'll find common ground to address the concerns of Lou Dobbs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, my next guest shares those concerns, and he testified before the committee today. T.J. Bonner is president of the National Border Patrol Council, and he is an active Border Patrol agent, facing all of the issues that our men and women in the Border Patrol face each day. Joining us from Washington, good to have you with us.
T.J. BONNER, PRES., NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Good to be here. DOBBS: It is interesting to hear Democrats and Republicans alike now focusing on their concerns about border security.
BONNER: Interesting and very heartening. Bear in mind, this is a proposal from the president, and I'm hopeful that the Congress will see the light and do the right thing. This proposal is just shameful. I'm upset both as a citizen and especially as a Border Patrol agent. That's my life and the lives of my fellow Border Patrol agents that are being -- that are on the line every day, and we need reinforcements desperately, and the president is just giving us 5 percent of what the Congress approved last year and the president signed into law.
DOBBS: What is going on here, T.J.? The president is simply ignoring -- and it is not by -- you know, there's no coincidence here, the president has chosen not -- not -- to secure our borders. Why is that decision, as best you can under it, going on?
BONNER: I have no idea why he cannot make the connection between border security and homeland security. It's clear as day to everyone else.
DOBBS: Well, is it because we also have Democrats and Republicans in Congress who have not insisted on either border security and demanded it, because certainly they can in a common voice, nor have they insisted upon real reform of our immigration laws, if they are such, and certainly not to enforce those laws.
BONNER: I think there's enough blame to be spread all around Capitol Hill, but the president has to take a leadership role in this, and he simply hasn't.
DOBBS: What does it do to the morale of our Border Patrol agents to see, as you said, a 5 percent increase in what has been authorized in Border Patrol funding for agents?
BONNER: It takes morale that's already at the lowest point that I have ever seen it in my 27-year career, and it plunges it even further, if that were possible, and it is.
DOBBS: You pointed out that there's some reason for hope here. You have been working on these issues in Washington for some time now. Do you believe that there has been a breakthrough now amongst the members of Congress?
BONNER: It's very heartening to see the members on both sides of the aisle join together in recognition of the fact that we need a lot more personnel down on the border, to help secure our border, and speak with one voice. And I'm hopeful that we will have that restored, as well as the $80 million that the president is proposing to cut from the Border Patrol's budget this year. That, in addition to the $20 million that he did cut last year.
DOBBS: Remarkable. T.J. Bonner, we thank you for being here.
BONNER: Thank you for having me. DOBBS: More now on a story we've been following closely in New York State. It has implications, of course, for much of the country, if not the entire nation. The New York Department of Motor Vehicles has launched a crackdown on people using fake Social Security numbers to obtain New York State driver's licenses. That crackdown has led to the suspension of thousands of licenses, many of them belonging -- most of them belonging to illegal aliens. That prompted a lawsuit from the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, accusing the DMV, in fact, of discrimination. DMV Commissioner Raymond Martinez was our guest here two nights ago to deny those charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAYMOND MARTINEZ, NY DMV COMMISSIONER: We require current, valid and verifiable documents before we issue that New York State driver's license or non-driver ID. It has nothing to do with whether they're legal or illegal. And if they can't meet that standard, that's not our problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: I'm joined now by the head of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, Cesar Perales. Good to have you with us.
CESAR PERALES, PUERTO RICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND: Nice to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: The idea -- did you -- you just heard what Mr. Martinez said. Are you satisfied...
PERALES: He wasn't accurate.
DOBBS: He wasn't?
PERALES: He's clearly asking for proof of legal presence before allowing people to renew their licenses, and that is not the law in New York State, so that our lawsuit, incidentally, was not based on race discrimination, as you suggest, but rather that the commissioner, his bureaucracy is acting without legal authority.
DOBBS: Well, actually I was quoting from your attorneys who said it was discrimination, and, two, that they were acting without proper authorization by law. But let's talk about that. Are you suggesting that the intention of the New York State legislature is to...
PERALES: No, no, I'm suggesting that we need the New York State legislature to say, this is the law. If you are not lawfully present, you should not have a driver's license. New York is one of 12 states that does not require that you be legally in this country to get a driver's license.
DOBBS: Does the New York State law, Cesar, say that if you are -- it's OK -- or does it overtly state that it's OK not to be a citizen?
PERALES: No, no, it is silent. DOBBS: Yes, OK. And being silent, it raises a host of issues by implication, does it not? Amongst them, the fact that if an illegal alien obtains a New York State's driver's license, it is entirely proper for them to vote in the state?
PERALES: No. I would hope that when you went to register to vote, you would be asked for a lot more than just a driver's license.
DOBBS: Well, you and I share and differ on many hopes, but in point of fact, in New York State, presenting your driver's license is sufficient, sufficient identification to register to vote.
PERALES: Lou, I don't think that anyone has been alleging that there are large numbers of undocumented people voting. I think what has happened here is that we have a very strong anti-immigrant sentiment. I've been watching your show. You're an effective voice. You're -- there is a movement in this country. And I think that's what pushed the bureaucracy in New York State, to say well, from now on, we are not going to give licenses to people who can't prove that they are lawfully here.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you, you take me to be an anti-immigrant voice?
PERALES: Yes.
DOBBS: You do? Have you ever once heard me say a word about an immigrant?
PERALES: Well, let me suggest this, when what we see on the program is a dozen men being paraded -- identified as sexual predators...
DOBBS: Right. Actually, it was 27.
PERALES: And only -- 27, and only then in Suffolk County, when we know that there are probably 1,000 sexual predators, people convicted of these crimes in the county. Don't you think that there is a connection in people's minds that these immigrants are, quote, "sexual predators?" This begins to build up in people's minds. I mean, it's very clear.
DOBBS: So you're trying to protect an unwashed public from...
PERALES: Not at all. Not at all. I would like my voice to be as strong as yours. I don't think that it will be, but...
DOBBS: I want to give you every opportunity, because what I'm really hearing you is that I'm anti-immigrant. And I want to be very clear. I'm anti-illegal immigration.
PERALES: OK.
DOBBS: I love immigrants. I absolutely adore our history. I cherish our history, because we are a nation of immigrants.
PERALES: Wonderful.
DOBBS: But the idea that you would take the language and twist it and pervert it to your interest as an advocate for open borders is...
PERALES: No, I don't advocate open borders.
DOBBS: Of course you do. Of course you do.
PERALES: I don't.
DOBBS: Because you are insisting that illegal aliens should have the right to a driver's license, because the legislature of the state of New York is silent. In point of fact, that is prima facie evidence of citizenship, and it's wrong.
PERALES: No, no.
DOBBS: And secondly, it also gives you not only the right to vote, but to present that driver's license, you can serve on a jury in New York City, can't you? Can't you?
PERALES: Lou, you're creating a possibility that we know that the way you get to sit on a jury is that you're on the voting rolls, and you come in...
DOBBS: In New York State, you are also called from the driver's license, and you could also be on the voting rolls because you have that driver's license. So either way, Cesar, you have a problem.
PERALES: You may be right.
DOBBS: I am right.
PERALES: But I don't think that's the issue.
DOBBS: No, the issue is you said I was anti-immigrant. I want to assure you, I love immigrants. I love immigrants.
PERALES: And let us make the analogy.
DOBBS: OK.
PERALES: We now venerate the people who now came through Ellis Island 100 years ago. They are very similar...
DOBBS: I venerate all Americans.
PERALES: ... to the people who come here today, who want to work, who share the same values, the same ambitions, people who bring us family values...
DOBBS: The violins are starting to move so high.
PERALES: You're starting with the violins, Lou, you started with the love. DOBBS: Because you said I'm anti-immigrant. I want to tell you it is entirely opposite, because you were spewing hate.
PERALES: I was spewing hate?
DOBBS: You were saying I'm anti-immigrant.
PERALES: That's not hate.
DOBBS: Of course it is. What would you call it?
PERALES: No, no, a characterization.
DOBBS: What would you call it?
PERALES: It's a characterization...
DOBBS: A characterization.
PERALES: ... based on what I saw.
DOBBS: But don't you understand that citizenship either is cherished in this country or it means nothing, and if you or anyone else suggests that our law should be indifferent to citizenship as a condition for the rights, the privileges and the responsibilities in this country, how can you possibly rationalize that view?
PERALES: No, on the contrary, I come here saying I'm trying to uphold the law, that New York State has violated the law. It has not provided due process to these people.
DOBBS: And now we're at due -- now we're at due process?
PERALES: That's right.
DOBBS: Excuse me, I'm lost. If a person is an illegal alien who has crossed our borders illegally, is in this country illegally, help me out -- what is their entitlement?
PERALES: They are entitled to due process.
DOBBS: By the way, I would not deny anyone due process, but I'm trying to understand how you're confusing due process and entitlement.
PERALES: I'm not suggesting that.
DOBBS: Yes you are.
PERALES: If you have a driver's license and you take it away without giving somebody an opportunity to defend himself, then that is the violation of due process.
DOBBS: I'm sorry. You have people walking into a state office and giving them a false Social Security number, and you're saying that that isn't criminal?
PERALES: Well, it is...
DOBBS: Well, it is criminal.
PERALES: I didn't say it was criminal.
DOBBS: I did.
PERALES: You could say going fishing without a fishing license you might characterize as criminal.
DOBBS: Yes, I would characterize it as criminal.
(CROSSTALK)
At what point, Cesar, will your relativism overwhelm this country? When we have 30 million illegal aliens in it? At what point?
PERALES: I side with Alan Greenspan, with the economists that support our president, and that say these people are providing a powerful economic engine, they are helping our country.
DOBBS: Listen, I have worked with migrant workers, many of whom were illegal in my youth. OK? I'm not denigrating their efforts, their work, in many cases their motives, OK. But what I am saying to you is, that if your view that one who wants border security, wants legal migration into this country, is to be simply dismissed, because it's convenient to your...
PERALES: Not at all.
DOBBS: Let me finish -- to your interest, then we're doomed here.
PERALES: I'm not dismissing it at all.
DOBBS: And to call people who are concerned about border security and stopping illegal immigration with 20 million illegal aliens in this country, 3 million last year, to call them anti- immigrant is horrible I think on your part.
PERALES: I don't think it's horrible.
DOBBS: I do, because it's offensive. I would never say something like...
PERALES: I certainly didn't want to come here to offend you.
DOBBS: That's all right. But it's a device. And it's an artifice on those who try to support illegal immigration and open borders.
PERALES: Let me posture something.
DOBBS: Please.
PERALES: If the laws that are in effect today were in effect when people were coming to Ellis Island, they would have been characterized, in your language, as illegals.
DOBBS: I have to take the world as it is. And the world is this -- we have 20 illegal aliens in the country. We have wages being depressed because Lulac has come out against CAFTA because of its concerned of the impact on the latino workers in this country. It's not a racial issue. It is not a legal migration issue. We're talking about the good of the nation, respect for the citizenship, respect for the country.
PERALES: What we're disagreeing on is what's good for the nation. What I am suggesting is just...
DOBBS: The illegality is not.
PERALES: What I am suggesting is that the fervor, the commitment that these people have when they come to this country to work, is something to be valued and to be cherished. They should be given an opportunity. Now, that does not mean I advocate open borders. They're here now.
DOBBS: But you're a de facto advocate, if you will. We're going to have to take this up.
Cesar Perales, we thank you for being here. Come back soon. We'll have the discussion. We're way out of time. We've gone over. And we've got some issues to get -- I'm sure we can get through these issues.
PERALES: All right. I'll give you the opportunity.
DOBBS: And I think you think the inverse. Thanks for being here.
Coming up next, the case for reinstating the draft. We'll be joined by 2 military experts say it is time if we're to remain a super power. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our military, without question, is stretched almost to the breaking point by wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the global war on radical Islamist terrorism. The latest Pentagon figures show the military finding it much harder to recruit enough troops. For some military expert, that means Congress has only one choice, that is, to reintroduce the draft.
Writing in the magazine Washington Monthly, Paul Glastris and Phillip Carter declare that America cannot long remain a super power with merely an all volunteer military. Paul Glastris, Phillip Carter join me now.
Also joining us, gentleman, if it's OK with you, is General David Grange, our military analyst. We're a little bit pinched for time, do you mind a 4-way discussion here, if you will?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A general outranks a journalist anyday. DOBBS: Well, it certainly in the case of General David Grange, by a wide, wide margin.
It's good to have you all here.
Let me turn first, if I may, Phillip, to the reason for reinstating the draft, simply because we've had a shortfall here temporarily, what would be the reason for suggesting the draft?
PHILLIP CARTER, JOURNALIST: Well, I don't think it's the current shortfall, but the long view that makes us suggest it. You see, for the last century or so, every 10 or 20 years, this country has had to send half a million men or more around the world in its pursuit of national security. And I think we have to put those structures in place to produce that force now before the need becomes acute.
DOBBS: And Paul, you concur with that, obviously, as the coauthor. But the idea of a draft, I think back to the tremors that went through society during Vietnam. And the removal of the draft, young men and women sighing with relief. Do you really want to bring that back? Is there a way to ensure it's absolutely equitable?
PAUL GLASTRIS, JOURNALIST: I think the draft like military fighting itself has to change with the times. And we don't need the mass conscription for combat that we had in World War II or the inequitable draft in Vietnam. What we need is a 21st Century draft that basically says all young people, college-bound people ought to serve their country, either in a civilian role, or if they choose a military role.
If you did that, and some portion of those who chose mandatory national service chose the military, then you would have volunteers, because they chose military service over other kinds of service in numbers that I think would provide the peacekeeping forces, the large number of peacekeepers, truck drivers and MPS that are currently missing from the force, the surge capacity that the military from time to time needs, so that you wouldn't have to raise the size of the current active-duty force, which is right now about fine for the task.
DOBBS: I'm not sure I would agree with you on that one. Let's find out what General David Grange says about this. I know, Dave, you have some strong feelings on these issues.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Right, Lou. I don't like the draft as was, the antiquated draft of the past. It won't fit today's world or the people of the United States. But some type of national service, where you have flexibility from say ages 18 to 28, so in a ten-year span, you can pick how you will serve your country, men and women, equitable, all types of people throughout the country, and then for each year you give in some type of service, you're rewarded with education or another benefit, that way you can sustain this fight. I believe we're already past a critical point and somehow we got to get more people, but not the old-type draft.
DOBBS: It's interesting that General Grange agrees with you gentlemen and your article that's appearing in "Washington Monthly," because obviously the Pentagon led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is vehemently opposed to the view of not only the draft, but the fact that we would need more people. Paul, you just said, you think we're at about the right force level. Square that up a little bit with a call for a draft.
GLASTRIS: We're at the right force level to fight combat. We're not at the -- we can win wars with the forces we have. We can not secure the peace with the forces we have. I'm all for, perhaps, upping the size of the active-duty military, if the military thinks that's what's important. But I think these military gentlemen with me will say that, that there's a limit how many -- how big the active duty -- all-volunteer military can be. And what is needed is not more infantrymen, more combat soldiers. What is -- what is needed is search capacity in this peacekeeping function. And that I think you can get in no way better than in this 21st century draft that we're talking about.
DOBBS: Phillip, the idea of burden-sharing in this country, it is without question and perhaps has always been so, but we have the capacity now to right past wrongs, the burdens are not equally shared in this society of ours. Is the draft a way, national service a way to bring about an equal sacrifice from all elements, members of society in this nation?
CARTER: Yes, Lou, I think that's one of it's greatest virtues. You know, today the burden is deep, but it's not wide. You have communities like Oceanside, California, home to Camp Pendleton and the Marines or the 1st Mech, that are taking one-sixth of the total fatalities from Iraq. That's a staggering amount, but it's being borne by one small -- part of America.
And our democracy depends on constituencies to make anything happen in Washington. When such a narrow part of the country bears the cost of war, our Democratic system really breaks down and it suffers. So I think spreading the burden more equitably will do a lot to make our nation embrace this cause. And will also do a lot more to help our leaders in Washington understand the true cost of it.
DOBBS: And each of us focusing strongly on the decisions taken in Washington, because we know we will be taking responsibility.
General David Grange, you get a quick last word, if you will, sir.
GRANGE: The last thing I'd like to say, is that the active-duty side of the force is also too small. You need a professional cadre of the right size to take on these global requirements.
DOBBS: Phillip Carter, Paul Glastris, we thank you for your provocative article in "Washington Monthly." General Grange, as always, good have you here.
GRANGE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Next a look at some of "Your thoughts" on the illegal immigration crisis facing this country. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Taking a look now at some of "Your Thoughts."
Tim O'Hara in Ocean City, New Jersey, "First we had NAFTA and we lost jobs to Mexico. Now they want CAFTA and we will lose jobs to Central America. Next is HAFTA, that is when you have HAFTA go to another country to get a job."
And Marilyn in Clinton, Connecticut, "Maybe if we stopped sending our jobs overseas we could have people in the U.S. working and paying into Social Security, which would help keep Social Security a bit more secure. Also, if we stopped giving money to people illegally entering our country we might even be able to fix Medicaid."
And Michael Kramer in Lake Worth, Florida, "I believe that we can curtail the use of illegal aliens in this country by fining the companies that use them. If the risk to these companies is great enough they will seek legal means to hire these people. This must be part of any legislation that the government will enact to rectify this problem."
Send us "Your Thoughts" at loudobbs@cnn.com. We love to hear from you. Still ahead the results of our poll tonight, and preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of our poll tonight, 79 percent of you responding say, all Americans should share responsibility for the cost of government and military service. Twenty-one percent have a problem with that.
Thanks for being with us tonight, please join us here tomorrow. I'll be talking with one border state congressman, who says our southern border is under siege from illegal aliens and vulnerable to terrorist as well. And in our weekly feature, celebrating the men and women who served. One soldiers quick reaction saving his unit from disaster. We'll have his incredible story. All that and a great deal -- a great deal more tomorrow.
Please be with us. For all of us here, good night from New York, "ANDERSON COOPER" 360 is next.
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