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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.S. Shoots at Released Hostage's Car, Killing One; Syria Under Pressure to Withdraw from Lebanon; Interview With Alberto Gonzales

Aired March 04, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now: a developing story involving an Italian journalist, a former hostage in Iraq. Moments after being released, U.S. forces opened fire on the car carrying her and others to the airport. Tonight the Italian prime minister is asking for accountability. We're live this Baghdad, in Rome and at the Pentagon.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Eviction notice.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syrian troops, Syria's intelligence services must get out of Lebanon now.

BLITZER: Will Damascus give in to the latest demand?

Justice for all? American citizens caught up in an anti-terror campaign, are their rights being ignored? I'll ask the new attorney general, Alberto Gonzales.

Desolate and decrepit. Just yards from North Korea, a close look at the Stalinist state from a slow boat in China.

House arrest on a 153-acre estate. It's not a bad thing for Martha Stewart, except...

MARTHA STEWART, FOUNDER, MARTHA STEWART LIVING OMNIMEDIA: I don't have an cappuccino.

BLITZER: No cappuccino.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, March 4, 2005.

BLITZER: It happened in a flash, euphoria turned to horror in the fog of war. An Italian journalist was freed today after a month as a hostage in Iraq. But on her way to the airport, U.S. soldiers opened fire on her car.

In Italy there's shock and outage. CNN's Alessio Vinci will join us live from Rome. At the Pentagon, there's a search for answers. CNN's Barbara Starr standing by with the latest from there. But we begin in Baghdad with our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson.

Nic, tell us how this day unfolded.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Giuliana Sgrena had been in insurgent capacity for about the last month. She was picked up by them, by gunmen outside the University of Baghdad on the fourth of February. There she'd been interviewing people. She was picked up, bundled into insurgents' cars.

Over the last month or so, there have been various indications that maybe she was going to be released. She was released today. She was released into the custody of Italian Special -- Special Forces agents here in Iraq.

She was in a vehicle, after dark driving towards Baghdad's International Airport along a very dangerous stretch of road that links the center of Baghdad to that airport.

Now what we know that happened next, the U.S. military says that about 8:55 in the evening, a car was approaching one of their checkpoints. A patrol at that checkpoint saw the car approaching. It was approaching at high speed, they said. They waved at it. They flashed white lights at it. They fired shots in front of it. And then they say they fired shots into the engine block.

When the car stopped, two of the occupants -- one of the occupants had been killed, two were injured. Giuliana Sgrena had been -- is being taken and treated in a medical facility here. One of those that died was -- was believed, at least, being one of the -- one of the Italian Special Forces agents who'd helped negotiate her release, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Nic Robertson, stand by in Italy, where participation in the multinational force is not popular. There's been a full range of emotions, elation, anger and heartache.

Let's go live now to CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci.

Alessio, what's the immediate reaction from the Italian government?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The immediate reaction, Wolf, was to summon the Italian -- the U.S. ambassador to Italy, Mel Sembler, who we understand at this time is about to leave his residence here in Rome to go to the office of Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, Mr. Berlusconi saying that he needs an explanation about what happened, and he also said that someone must take responsibility for this incident.

The Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has given a news conference about a couple of hours ago. He did not elaborate at which speed the car was traveling, but it did confirm that one of the occupants in the car, one of the security -- the secret service agents who was negotiating, had negotiated the release of Sgrena, was actually killed directly by fire, shots -- by shots fired from the U.S. side. He also said that all the other occupants in the car, two other agents, as well as Ms. Sgrena, were indeed wounded.

Meanwhile in the newsroom here in Rome, of "Il Manifesto" newspaper, where Giuliana Sgrena worked, the mood clearly dampened when people heard of the news that she had been shot at. And therefore, there was a lot of apprehension, and I can tell you now, Italian newscasts here are going really crazy about this information.

As you mentioned Wolf, this war was not very popular here in Italy, and this incident clearly an embarrassing moment for the Italian prime minister.

Back to you.

BLITZER: All right. Alessio Vinci, stand by as well.

As Italy demands answers, the U.S. military is trying to provide them. Let's go to our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

Barbara, what are they saying there?

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this could not have come at a more sensitive time, of course, for the Pentagon, for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the Bush administration.

President Bush in the last few minutes, already expressing his regret at this incident and saying, of course, that it is under full investigation. As Alessio says the Italian government had had its political issues with support in that country for the war in Iraq. So certainly a difficulty here at the Pentagon.

Now, this high-speed car that has been referred to by the U.S. military, the failure of the car to stop, the use of hand signals, of flashing lights and firing of shots in front of the car, those are typical tactics used by the U.S. military when they have a high-speed car coming at them at a checkpoint in Iraq and they have concerns that it may be a suicide car bomb attack.

They did go to the next step which, again, is one of their accepted procedures -- to fire into the engine block to stop the car. They have a lot of concerns in the U.S. military in Iraq. They've had several suicide car bomb attacks, of course, and they use all the measures that they can if a car does not stop when it is approaching.

These have happened before. The U.S. military has expressed its regrets many times. The investigation will certainly focus on what was the communication. How is it that this high-speed car could have approached, did not see the signals to stop? And how is it that the U.S. military was unaware, perhaps, of who was in the car -- Wolf.

BLITZER: The fog of war indeed. Barbara Starr, reporting for us at the Pentagon. We'll be following this story. Terrible tragedy in Iraq today.

After two decades of having its way, largely, in Lebanon, Syria has now come under extraordinary international pressure to withdraw its forces. And the pressure has just intensified.

Let's bring in our Brian Todd with more -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, many observers believe Syrian President Bashar Assad is facing his biggest political crisis ever. And today President Bush turned up the heat about as high as it can go.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): The language could hardly be more direct.

BUSH: Syria, Syrian troops, Syria's intelligence services must get out of Lebanon now.

TODD: The pressure on Syria's leader could hardly be greater. Even Arab states are piling on President Bashar Assad. Saudi officials say their Crown Prince Abdullah told Mr. Assad if he doesn't begin withdrawal from Lebanon as quickly as possible, Syrian relations with Riyadh will suffer.

The new Palestinian foreign minister joins in.

NASSER AL-KIDWA, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Obviously, now people understand that, at some point, somehow, there should be a Syrian withdrawal, and it seems that it's inevitable.

TODD: Assad himself told "TIME" magazine this week Syria should begin withdrawing its 15,000 troops from Lebanon soon. But how soon? A top official in Damascus, as well as Syria's ambassadors to Washington and the U.N. did not return our calls for comment.

Assad is expected to deliver a speech Saturday to Syria's parliament. A former top Lebanese official tells CNN he expects Assad to announce a partial withdrawal and a redeployment of some Syrian troops in Lebanon toward the border.

Analysts agree Assad may try to stall.

HISHAM MELHEM, CORRESPONDENT, "AN-NAHAR": He's going to backtrack a little. He would say, "Look, even logistically it will be extremely difficult for us to complete the withdrawal within a few months or, you know, within six months. Give me some time."

TODD: But how will that play, now that Russia, an historic Syrian ally, has joined the chorus and even the U.S. and France agree?

BUSH: When the United States and France and others say withdrawal, we mean complete withdrawal, no halfhearted measures.

TODD: Assad seems to have been caught off guard by the pace of events. Sparked by last month's assassination in Beirut of a former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri, the most powerful figure to contest Syria's occupation.

Thousands of Lebanese took to the streets, many blaming Damascus for the attack. Syria denied involvement. But the pressure now comes from much higher levels, and Mr. Assad's political survival may hinge on his response.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: The pressure also comes internally. Members of the Lebanese political opposition and some analysts say elements of the Syrian military and intelligence services have interests in Lebanon and are squeezing Mr. Assad to keep a Syrian presence there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd with the latest on that. We'll be watching that story. Brian, thank you very much.

The president's comments on Syria came as he kicked off a 60-day, 60-city campaign to sell his Social Security reform plan. The president told a crowd in Westfield, New Jersey, that within just 13 years the money going out of Social Security coffers will exceed the money coning in.

The president wants younger workers to be able to invest part of their Social Security taxes in private accounts, but according to recent polls that idea has at best only lukewarm support.

The president began his day by nominating a new chief for the Environmental Protection Agency. Acting administrator, Steve Johnson, has spent 24 years at the EPA. If confirmed, he'd be the first professional scientist to head the agency.

The president says he wants Johnson to press Congress to pass the Clear Skies Plan to reduce power plant pollution. The plan has stalled in the Senate. Critics say it doesn't go far enough.

Martha Stewart is out of prison and back where she wants to be, at home. Perhaps also she wants to be in the spotlight, because she is. The home making maven, turned convicted felon, returned to her estate in Bedford, New York, overnight, appearing thinner, happier, and may we mention, a lot richer than when she went to prison only five months ago.

CNN's Mary Snow is following all of these developments for us. She's joining us live from Bedford -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, not only is Martha Stewart back in the spotlight, she's embracing it. She certainly seemed to savor her first taste of freedom from prison.

And with so many wondering how she has changed since she's been in prison, it seems to be clear that one thing has stayed the same, and that's her resilience.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): With cameras watching her, helicopters overhead, perhaps Martha Stewart summed up her situation best, as she set out to make lemonade out of lemons. STEWART: People make jokes about making lemons into lemonade, but I actually really like lemons, and these are my first lemons in five months.

SNOW: Lemons to lemonade, convicted felon to media darling, Martha Stewart was out with her dog, petting her horses on her first day of freedom from five months in prison.

With Camp Cupcake a memory, Martha Stewart returned to her role as host, offering hot chocolate to the press and sharing a story about the lack of cappuccino in prison.

STEWART: This is a funny story. We'd ask the guards every day for cappuccino just as a joke. And they'd come in with their cups of coffee and stuff. And so I get here, and I have a spot for a cappuccino machine, and it didn't work. So I don't have any cappuccino.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn't have any cappuccino. She doesn't have any cappuccino. The cappuccino machine does not work.

STEWART: No, I didn't miss cappuccino at all. It's the idea I missed.

SNOW: Unlike her entrance to prison, Stewart made a very public exit with her daughter Alexis by her side, Stewart's company even going out of its way to accommodate the press, cameras capturing a smiling Stewart boarding a charter plane in Greenbrier, West Virginia, shortly after 1 a.m. in the morning.

Stewart issued a statement on her web site, saying the experience in Alderson has been life altering and life affirming, adding, "You can be sure I will never forget the friends that I met here," saying, "I'm thrilled to be returning to my more familiar life."

But as Stewart returned to her 153-acre estate in Bedford, all is not familiar. For the next five months of home confinement, she'll be allowed to leave for 48 hours a week, mostly for work, and she'll have to wear an electronic bracelet to monitor her movements.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, Stewart has until midnight on Sunday to contact her probation officer. Once they meet, that electronic device, that ankle bracelet, will be attached to her. That will stay on the entire time of home confinement.

And they'll also hammer out her schedule. Any kind of movement has to first be approved by that probation officer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Mary Snow in Bedford, New York. Thanks, Mary, very much.

When we come back, terrorism and a no torture policy, will the rules ever be changed?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: When you capture a terrorist who says, "A nuclear or radiological bomb is in Manhattan, it's going to go off in 30 minutes, and I'm not talking," would you then torture that person?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Hear the answer when I go one-on-one with the new attorney general of the United States, Alberto Gonzales.

Dangerous training: a Marine officer speaks out about risky training practices and what he calls a completes disregard for safety, a story you will see only on CNN.

And later, a view few Americans have ever seen. We'll take you for a rare look inside North Korea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Barely three weeks since his confirmation as attorney general, Alberto Gonzales appears to have moved into his new job with ease and confidence.

As you'll recall, during his confirmation hearing, the former White House counsel was sharply criticized by Democrats over his role in shaping policies on treatment of prisoners in the campaign on terror.

Just a short while ago I went over to the Justice Department to talk with him about that and other key issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Judge Gonzales, thanks for joining us. Congratulations on your new job.

Let's get to some of the issues of the day, first, before we get to some other material.

The horrible murder of the family of a federal judge in Chicago. What can be done to protect -- what should be done to protect these judges better than is being done right now?

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Wolf, it is an horrific crime, and it is intolerable that any official, particularly a federal judge, might be intimidated for fear of their safety, or fear of the safety of the lives of their family. And so we're looking at this very, very carefully, very closely.

BLITZER: You need new legislation, you need more money? What do you need to do for the marshals to protect federal judges and their families?

GONZALES: There's no indication right now, will -- there's no indication right now, Wolf, that -- that there was a failure in the protection by the marshal service of the judge, whether or not, if we'd additional marshals on the judge, would that have prevented this murder.

We need to find out the facts first. And that's what -- what we're doing right now, we've dedicated the FBI to work with Chicago Police Department to try to find out what happened here.

And once we get more information and look at the causes of what happened here, then I think we can assess as to what -- what remedies we can implement to prevent something like this from happening, again. But -- but believe me, this is -- this is a horrific crime. It's one that, as a former judge, I take very, very personally.

BLITZER: Did you ever feel threatened? Were you worried about your security?

GONZALES: I was never worried about -- about my own personal security, but as we have judges consider more and more some of these dangerous terrorist criminals, I can understand why there might be additional concerns about one's safety. And obviously we have a responsibility to ensure that the judges have sufficient protection, and that's something that we'll be looking at.

BLITZER: Was there ever a threat made against you or your family when you were sitting on the bench?

GONZALES: Not to my knowledge, Wolf.

BLITZER: Is there a problem in terms of the sense out there that there's white supremacist threat that could have resulted in these murders?

GONZALES: Of course, and we're worried about that. We take that very seriously.

BLITZER: Is that the leading theory right now, do you think?

GONZALES: I don't want to get into what could be the leading theory, but obviously, we're going to look at all possibilities. And that's what the bureau is doing -- is doing currently, working with the Chicago Police Department.

BLITZER: As we speak, the big story today, as you know, the release of Martha Stewart from the federal prison.

The federal prison sentencing guidelines, was this a good idea to send this woman to jail for five months, to prison for five months, given that she could have paid a huge fine. She could have done community service. Was this necessary, looking back?

GONZALES: We have -- we have certain laws that have to be enforced. In this particular case, prosecutors believed that laws were broken, and a jury of her peers decided that in fact she had committed a crime. And so our -- we have a system in our government, and that system worked in this particular case.

As to whether or not it's appropriate, I'm not sure it's really appropriate for me as the attorney general, after the fact, to characterize that as to whether or not it was appropriate or not. She committed a crime, and she's -- is repaying her debt back to society.

BLITZER: Looking down the road from now on, should there be some changes in these kinds of federal sentencing guidelines that would mandate a woman of her stature, shall we say, going to prison?

GONZALES: That will be a decision that will be made by a variety of people, including the Congress. We will be sitting down with Congress shortly to talk about the ramifications of the recent Supreme Court decision in Booker and Fanfan, saying that the guidelines were unconstitutional.

And so in response to your specific question, we'll just have to talk to Congress and to make a decision as to what is the best policy for these kinds of cases.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Much more coming up on my interview with the new attorney general of the United States, his thoughts on the alliance between Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. How concerned should we be?

Plus, training dangers: are some Marines being forced into unnecessarily dangerous practices? A U.S. Marine officer speaks out. Something you will see only here on CNN.

And she could reach out and almost touch North Korea. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara star gives us a rare look at that country. That, too, a story you'll only see here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now of my interview with the new attorney general, Alberto Gonzales.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Yesterday the president spoke about a communication between Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the No. 1 terrorist in Iraq right now. We're hearing there might have been a few communications that had been obtained by the U.S. government.

How worried should the American public be right now that these two men are plotting a terrorist attack here in the United States?

GONZALES: Wolf, I can't can say the threat is real. I don't want to get into specific numbers of communications, types and when, relating to communications between bin Laden and Zarqawi.

What I can say is that -- is that we receive intelligence briefings every day. We know the threat is still there. We know that al Qaeda and enemies of this country still continue to want to do harm to Americans and Americans' interests overseas. And so we take that threat very, very seriously.

And part of my job is to protect America, work with Michael Chertoff, the new secretary of homeland security, to defend America. That's the No. 1 priority for this department. And the president's given us that charge, and it's one that I'm going to try to discharge to the best of my ability.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the statement you made this week. You gave a speech. Let me read to you from what you said. You said, "I am willing to support improvements in our laws that make America safer. What I will not support are changes in the law that would make America more vulnerable to terrorist attacks."

Was that a signal that you were making that there possibly could be some revision in the Patriot Act, which has been controversial since 9/11, that you're opening yourself up to possibly considering some changes in the Patriot Act?

GONZALES: What I have said repeatedly and consistently is that -- is that I want to sit down with members of Congress and hear their concerns about the Patriot Act.

I think there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation about the provisions of the Patriot Act. And what I want to do is understand their concerns.

From what I hear from law enforcement is that these tools are very, very important. I also understand that no one can produce credible evidence of abuses under the Patriot Act.

And so I want to understand what are the sources of concern that people have? And so I'm very, very interested in having a dialogue about the Patriot Act.

However, the Patriot Act, I'm told, as I understand it, and I believe it to be true, has been effective. It's one of the reasons why we haven't had a terrorist attack in three years. And -- and I think we ought to proceed very cautiously in taking away a tool that's been successful in defending America.

BLITZER: But I hear you say, correct me if I'm wrong -- you're leaving the door open for a discussion with Congress about possibly making some modifications in the Patriot Act.

GONZALES: If we're talking about modifications that will make America safer and stronger. The president has said he believes the Patriot Act ought to -- should be reauthorized. And of course, I -- I stand with the president on that -- on that proposition.

But I also am willing to sit down with Congress and listen to their concerns and explain to them why we believe the Patriot Act and re-authorization of the Patriot Act is so very, very important to the safety of Americans.

BLITZER: Is torture ever justified? Can you imagine any cases where detainees, terror suspects, should be tortured to get information?

GONZALES: Wolf, the president has said we're not going to engage in torture. And as far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the debate. We don't -- we don't condone torture. And anyone who engages in torture is going to be held accountable.

BLITZER: Let me give you a hypothetical, because there's a lot of experts that say there are sometimes torture should occur, if there's a ticking bomb, for example. If you capture a terrorist who says, "A nuclear or radiological bomb is in Manhattan. It's going off in 30 minutes, and I'm not talking," would you then torture that person?

GONZALES: Wolf, that is a hypothetical that, fortunately, we've never had to confront. All I can tell you is that the president has said that we're not going to engage in torture. And we're not going to engage in torture.

BLITZER: But you could understand why some people think at times, rare, that option should be held open.

GONZALES: Wolf, I serve for a president who has said we're not going to engage in torture, and we're not going to get -- this country is not going to condone torture.

BLITZER: There are some CIA officers, active duty CIA officers, who are worried they may be prosecuted by the Justice Department for engaging in what some say was torture of detainees in Iraq or Afghanistan. Should they be worried that you're going to go after them?

GONZALES: Wolf, my understanding is, is that, and I believe this to be true, is that all authorized techniques, both by DOD and by CIA, that were reviewed by the Department of Justice, are in fact lawful. And so I'm presuming that -- that the techniques used by the CIA and by DOD were in fact consistent with the guidelines approved by the Department of Justice. Sometimes, people do things that they shouldn't do. People are imperfect. We have illegal conduct that occurs here in our prisons, when people know what the rules are.

And so the fact that abuses occurred, they're unfortunate. But I'm not sure that it should be viewed as surprising.

BLITZER: Because they are concerned, these CIA officers, that the rules of the game were murky at that point.

GONZALES: I don't think that they were murky. Again, the agencies were very careful -- they were concerned about doing -- they were concerned about doing anything that might violate the law. And so they came to the Department of Justice. This was before I became attorney general.

But they came to the Department of Justice and asked for guidance. And I understand that the department gave guidance to the agencies, and so they new what the rules of the game were. And I'm presuming that they conducted themselves accordingly.

BLITZER: A final question on Jose Padilla.

GONZALES: Padilla.

BLITZER: He wants to be called Jose Padilla now. His lawyers and he say he doesn't want to be called Jose Padilla anymore. He wants to be called Jose Padilla. So we will call him Jose Padilla.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: It's about three years. He was arrested at O'Hare Airport in Chicago. And he's been held without charges as an enemy combatant. Is this something that you can accept, that an American citizen just indefinitely being held in prison with no charges being filed against him?

GONZALES: Well, again, Jose Padilla is not being held in our criminal justice system. He's being held as an enemy combatant.

BLITZER: But is this right, for an American citizen to be treated like that?

GONZALES: Well, let me just say that it has been -- from -- throughout history, the laws of war allow countries to hold indefinitely, for the duration of the hostilities, people that they capture engaging in war against them, whether or not they are citizens of their own country.

That happened during World War II, where Americans were captured and they were treated as enemy combatants. Cases like this one presents some very, very difficult issues for us. As I said during a hearing this week, the United States has no desire to hold people indefinitely. We believe there should be some kind of disposition at an appropriate time.

Someone like Jose Padilla may have information, for example, that, if we had that information, it may save American lives, may save America from future attacks. We want to try to get that information, if possible. In my judgment, the United States does have the authority. The president does have the authority to detain someone as an enemy combatant who is engaging in war against the United States, even if they happen to be an American citizen.

If they happen to be an American citizen, they also, though, have the right of habeas. And they can go to a federal judge and try to have this federal judge determine whether or not the United States government is holding that American citizen lawfully or not. And that's what's happened in the case of Padilla. And so, a decision was made by the federal judge. And that decision is one that we disagree with and that we're going to appeal.

BLITZER: We have to, unfortunately, leave it right there.

Judge Gonzales, thanks very much for spending a few moments with us.

GONZALES: Thanks, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: When we come back, training dangers. Are submarine recruits being forced into harmful situations as part of their training? An officer speaks out only on CNN.

In the killings of a federal judge's mother and husband, investigators make a new move to try to get more help from the public.

And rare video shot just yards from North Korea. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr gives us a closer look at this Stalinist state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back.

A Marine officer speaks out about the use of what he says are unauthorized and unsafe training techniques. Are recruits in danger? Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jaime McIntyre, has the story you will see only on CNN. We will get to that in a moment.

First, though, this other story now in the news.

The FBI is hoping a $50,000 reward will lead to an arrest in the murder of a federal judge's husband and mother. The agency is putting up the reward four days after Judge Joan Lefkow found the two shot dead in her Chicago home. Investigators say they have no suspects in the killing.

Marine Corps boot camp is legendary for its toughness and ability to train young men and women for combat. But is the training safe? In the opinion of one Marine captain, the answer is no. He says higher-ups ignored his warnings of improper and unsafe training techniques. The Marine Corps denies the allegations and insists its training is safe.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jaime McIntyre, reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Nineteen-year-old Jason Tharp drowned at Parris Island February 8, a day after he was seen in a videotape taken by WIS-TV being shoved by a swim instructor. The South Carolina station reported he apparently resisted going into the water. It was that incident that prompted Marine Captain Delbert Marriott to contact CNN.

CAPT. DELBERT MARRIOTT, U.S. MARINE CORPS: My motivation is that a recruit drowned. My motivation is that, for three months, I was telling them this was going to be a problem. If we find a correlation or we don't find a correlation, it still doesn't change the fact that someone identified a problem.

MCINTYRE: Last month, Marriott's assignment was to review swim training at Camp Johnson, North Carolina, where many of the Parris Island trainers are trained.

The scathing conclusion of his November 30 report: "I found the biggest issue to be the complete disregard for safety." In a follow- up e-mail a week later, he warned superiors that drill sergeants were -- quote -- "doing their own thing and someone will die because of it."

MCINTYRE (on camera): Pretty strong stuff.

MARRIOTT: It is.

MCINTYRE: Was anything done at that point?

MARRIOTT: No. They are still down there instructing right now.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): "His accusations are totally false," is how Marriott's commander reacted when contacted by CNN. Lieutenant Colonel Gary Lambertsen (ph) told CNN he immediately stopped the practices questioned by Marriott pending further review.

Marriott documented the difficulty of one of those practices in this videotape. Could instructors do something required of their instructors in training, swim the demanding crawl stroke for nearly two miles, gradually shedding full combat gear? Marriott says the strong swimmer's struggled and one gave up.

MARRIOTT: If they have a hard time doing this stroke, imagine about the lance corporal that feels he needs to do this stroke to pass the course. He may drown trying to do the crawl stroke for 3,600 yards.

MCINTYRE: The Marine Corps argues there's no connection between the arduous training for top instructors at Camp Johnson and the basic course for fresh recruits at Parris Island. Marriott disagrees.

MARRIOTT: We are the lead school. So, if we have given an impression this kind of training is OK, well, when they go out to their commands, they're going to do the same type of training.

MCINTYRE: In his original report, Marriott also warned about sharking, instructors yanking students underwater while they played underwater hockey.

MARRIOTT: During the underwater hockey, the student was expected to go to the bottom of the pool holding their breath and push a 10- pound wait to the other side. Now, this is in full combat gear. Instructors jumped on students back whether they were (AUDIO GAP) or not.

MCINTYRE (on camera): That was an accident waiting to happen?

MARRIOTT: Absolutely it was. It was a death waiting to happen.

MCINTYRE: A Marine Corps spokesman declined to appear on camera, but vigorously disputed that the procedures now under review at Camp Johnson are unsafe, pointing out there's never been a drowning there or even a rescue.

And he said the three separate investigations into the death of Jason Tharp will include a thorough review of procedures at Parris Island as well.

(voice-over): Marriott, an accomplished triathlete, wants out of the Marine Corps and admits he doesn't have a spotless record. But he insists he has no personal agenda.

MARRIOTT: My motivation is that no one is going to apologize to this family. I will apologize. I'm sorry. I wish I could have done something.

MCINTYRE: Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Camp Johnson, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In a moment, yet another story you will see only on CNN, a rare glimpse into a closely guarded nation. From a slow boat in China, we'll give you a closer look into communist North Korea.

And President Bush says Karl Rove was the architect behind his political career. Are the Democrats answering Rove's skills with their own master mind? Our Carlos Watson has "The Inside Edge." That's coming up.

Also, welcoming the heroes home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It was not a pleasure cruise, but our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr found herself on a slow boat in China with an extraordinary sightseeing opportunity along the border with North Korea.

Here's her story only on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An early-morning flight from Beijing north to the city of Shenyang. CNN travels with a Pentagon team that has come to thank China for helping to find the remains of Captain Troy Cope, shot down 52 years ago during the Korean War.

The search for Captain Cope's remains took place along the Yalu River, the border between China and North Korea. He was shot down just inside China. But this journey will take an unexpected turn as the day unfolds. We travel one of China's most modern highways.

(on camera): We are now on a three-our drive through rural China to the city of Dandong, right on the North Korean-Chinese border.

(voice-over): Dandong, a bustling, colorful city Chinese port city of one million. We know North Korea is just across the river. But as we enter the city, it is so unexpected. There it is, the hermit kingdom, North Korea in full view. Our voices become hushed. We struggle to make out every detail. The shoreline of buildings and ships looks largely deserted. A lone patrol boat goes buy. We board a Chinese boat sailing past China's border control point at the bridge that joins both countries. The river is neutral territory.

But we are stunned when the boat sales within yards of the North Korean shoreline. The Chinese hosts know we are taking these sensitive pictures of a secretive North Korea. This is the North Korean town of Sinuiju. As the warehouses, buildings and shorelines go by, we see a country in economic collapse, smokestacks with no activity. We pass a bridge destroyed and never repaired, a ferris wheel that does not move. There is no electricity. At night, all of this is dark.

CNN turns off the video camera when the Chinese ask, but we are allowed to take photos. We sale next to North Korean fishing boats, dozens rusting, tied up.

(on camera): There is no money for fuel, a close look at a North Korea few Americans have ever seen and remembering an American who fell here in a war long ago.

Barbara Starr, CNN, on the Yalu River between North Korea and China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Setting the trend for the rest of the nation. Find out which state seems to be replacing California as the major trendsetter. Our Carlos Watson has "The Inside Edge on that and more. He's standing by. He joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we told you, President Bush is on the road pushing his plan for overhauling Social Security.

Joining us now from Mountain View, California, with his take on how this might play out, as well as other issues, our political analyst Carlos Watson with "The Inside Edge."

Carlos, this is a pivotal moment right now in the president's plan to reform Social Security. What's going on?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, as you know, he's kicking off a 60-day, 60-city tour where he hits 29 states in order to sell his plan and rally public opinion.

I think the big questions on this trip are, can the president do two things? One, can he not only rally public opinion and, in doing so, fundamentally convince people there is not only a crisis in terms of Social Security, but that he has actually the right fix? And, two, can he get a major co-signer, a major endorser? Remember how important Colin Powell was in helping the president in his first term sell his most difficult agenda item, which was the Iraqi war. Is there someone similar? Right now, we don't see that person, but don't be surprised if it's a nonpolitico.

The last big note on this whole thing is, when all is said and done, if the president is successful in the next 60 days, he still may not have enough of what he needs to get it over the top. And he might turn to something kind of unconventional, which may be an unusual on- the-air debate.

Remember, 12 years ago, "LARRY KING LIVE" hosted a debate between Al Gore and Ross Perot. At the end of that, support for NAFTA went from 34 percent to 57 percent and ultimately passed. So, don't be surprised to see something unusual like that after the tour.

BLITZER: Who could forget that debate.

Carlos, you are in California, which has, in recent years, at least, for many years, been a trendsetter for the rest of the country. But you see another state emerging as a trendsetter. What's going on?

WATSON: Well, you know what? I've got to go from my current state to my home state, where I grew up, which is Florida.

Over the last four or five years, while California remains an important trendsetter on stem cell research and a whole series of other things, increasingly, if you want to think about what's going to turn into national policy, you have got to think about Florida. We saw education reform there in part influence No Child Left Behind. We saw major tax reform there in the late '90s turn into a model for President Bush's tax cuts.

And now we are seeing big changes in Medicaid be discussed there, which ultimately could set the trend for what happens nationally. Even minimum wage, something that Florida Governor Jeb Bush opposed, but Floridians voted to increase it by $1, once it passed last year there in Florida, you now see almost a dozen states considering the same thing. So, Florida, along with California, the two sunshine states, if you will, are becoming the trendsetters.

BLITZER: One thing great about you, Carlos -- many great things about you, but one thing I love is that you are always looking for rising stars. Now, there's a new rising star, you believe, among Democratic political consultants. Tell us who he is.

WATSON: A lot of people are going to hear this name a lot over the next year. His name is George Lakoff, linguistics professor at U.C. Berkeley, who has for a number of years that Democrats have had trouble framing issues, finding the right words in order to get people excited about it.

Now, he's complimented conservatives for calling things like the estate tax the death tax. Now he's counseling Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean and others on how to fight not only the Social Security fight, but other fights. For example, gay marriage, he is saying, instead of talking about gay marriage, should talk about the right to marry. Instead of talking about a deficit, you should call it a baby tax. And so you are going to hear a lot from George Lakoff, who is going to help Democrats tweak their words, if you will, a super speechwriter. And, if he's successful, he could move the Democrats into a new, maybe successful era in 2006 and beyond.

BLITZER: Carlos, if our viewers want to hear more from you, what should they do?

WATSON: Well, guess what, Wolf? Our column is back, "The Inside Edge." You can certainly go to CNN.com and look on the politics home page. And over the next several hours, you can go to CNN.com/Carlos and see even more of it.

BLITZER: Carlos Watson always with "The Inside Edge," have a great weekend, Carlos.

WATSON: Good to see you. You, too.

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

And when we come back, just in time for the weekend, a happy homecoming for the crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A joyous homecoming makes our picture of the day; 3,000 sailors aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln received a hero's welcome as they pulled into their home port in Everett, Washington state. The sailors have been out to sea for five months. Some of that time was spent assisting with tsunami relief efforts. Forty sailors are returning home as new fathers. Congratulations to them.

See you Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk. Among my guests, the counselor to the president, Dan Bartlett.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 4, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now: a developing story involving an Italian journalist, a former hostage in Iraq. Moments after being released, U.S. forces opened fire on the car carrying her and others to the airport. Tonight the Italian prime minister is asking for accountability. We're live this Baghdad, in Rome and at the Pentagon.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Eviction notice.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syrian troops, Syria's intelligence services must get out of Lebanon now.

BLITZER: Will Damascus give in to the latest demand?

Justice for all? American citizens caught up in an anti-terror campaign, are their rights being ignored? I'll ask the new attorney general, Alberto Gonzales.

Desolate and decrepit. Just yards from North Korea, a close look at the Stalinist state from a slow boat in China.

House arrest on a 153-acre estate. It's not a bad thing for Martha Stewart, except...

MARTHA STEWART, FOUNDER, MARTHA STEWART LIVING OMNIMEDIA: I don't have an cappuccino.

BLITZER: No cappuccino.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, March 4, 2005.

BLITZER: It happened in a flash, euphoria turned to horror in the fog of war. An Italian journalist was freed today after a month as a hostage in Iraq. But on her way to the airport, U.S. soldiers opened fire on her car.

In Italy there's shock and outage. CNN's Alessio Vinci will join us live from Rome. At the Pentagon, there's a search for answers. CNN's Barbara Starr standing by with the latest from there. But we begin in Baghdad with our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson.

Nic, tell us how this day unfolded.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Giuliana Sgrena had been in insurgent capacity for about the last month. She was picked up by them, by gunmen outside the University of Baghdad on the fourth of February. There she'd been interviewing people. She was picked up, bundled into insurgents' cars.

Over the last month or so, there have been various indications that maybe she was going to be released. She was released today. She was released into the custody of Italian Special -- Special Forces agents here in Iraq.

She was in a vehicle, after dark driving towards Baghdad's International Airport along a very dangerous stretch of road that links the center of Baghdad to that airport.

Now what we know that happened next, the U.S. military says that about 8:55 in the evening, a car was approaching one of their checkpoints. A patrol at that checkpoint saw the car approaching. It was approaching at high speed, they said. They waved at it. They flashed white lights at it. They fired shots in front of it. And then they say they fired shots into the engine block.

When the car stopped, two of the occupants -- one of the occupants had been killed, two were injured. Giuliana Sgrena had been -- is being taken and treated in a medical facility here. One of those that died was -- was believed, at least, being one of the -- one of the Italian Special Forces agents who'd helped negotiate her release, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Nic Robertson, stand by in Italy, where participation in the multinational force is not popular. There's been a full range of emotions, elation, anger and heartache.

Let's go live now to CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci.

Alessio, what's the immediate reaction from the Italian government?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The immediate reaction, Wolf, was to summon the Italian -- the U.S. ambassador to Italy, Mel Sembler, who we understand at this time is about to leave his residence here in Rome to go to the office of Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, Mr. Berlusconi saying that he needs an explanation about what happened, and he also said that someone must take responsibility for this incident.

The Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has given a news conference about a couple of hours ago. He did not elaborate at which speed the car was traveling, but it did confirm that one of the occupants in the car, one of the security -- the secret service agents who was negotiating, had negotiated the release of Sgrena, was actually killed directly by fire, shots -- by shots fired from the U.S. side. He also said that all the other occupants in the car, two other agents, as well as Ms. Sgrena, were indeed wounded.

Meanwhile in the newsroom here in Rome, of "Il Manifesto" newspaper, where Giuliana Sgrena worked, the mood clearly dampened when people heard of the news that she had been shot at. And therefore, there was a lot of apprehension, and I can tell you now, Italian newscasts here are going really crazy about this information.

As you mentioned Wolf, this war was not very popular here in Italy, and this incident clearly an embarrassing moment for the Italian prime minister.

Back to you.

BLITZER: All right. Alessio Vinci, stand by as well.

As Italy demands answers, the U.S. military is trying to provide them. Let's go to our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

Barbara, what are they saying there?

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this could not have come at a more sensitive time, of course, for the Pentagon, for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the Bush administration.

President Bush in the last few minutes, already expressing his regret at this incident and saying, of course, that it is under full investigation. As Alessio says the Italian government had had its political issues with support in that country for the war in Iraq. So certainly a difficulty here at the Pentagon.

Now, this high-speed car that has been referred to by the U.S. military, the failure of the car to stop, the use of hand signals, of flashing lights and firing of shots in front of the car, those are typical tactics used by the U.S. military when they have a high-speed car coming at them at a checkpoint in Iraq and they have concerns that it may be a suicide car bomb attack.

They did go to the next step which, again, is one of their accepted procedures -- to fire into the engine block to stop the car. They have a lot of concerns in the U.S. military in Iraq. They've had several suicide car bomb attacks, of course, and they use all the measures that they can if a car does not stop when it is approaching.

These have happened before. The U.S. military has expressed its regrets many times. The investigation will certainly focus on what was the communication. How is it that this high-speed car could have approached, did not see the signals to stop? And how is it that the U.S. military was unaware, perhaps, of who was in the car -- Wolf.

BLITZER: The fog of war indeed. Barbara Starr, reporting for us at the Pentagon. We'll be following this story. Terrible tragedy in Iraq today.

After two decades of having its way, largely, in Lebanon, Syria has now come under extraordinary international pressure to withdraw its forces. And the pressure has just intensified.

Let's bring in our Brian Todd with more -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, many observers believe Syrian President Bashar Assad is facing his biggest political crisis ever. And today President Bush turned up the heat about as high as it can go.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): The language could hardly be more direct.

BUSH: Syria, Syrian troops, Syria's intelligence services must get out of Lebanon now.

TODD: The pressure on Syria's leader could hardly be greater. Even Arab states are piling on President Bashar Assad. Saudi officials say their Crown Prince Abdullah told Mr. Assad if he doesn't begin withdrawal from Lebanon as quickly as possible, Syrian relations with Riyadh will suffer.

The new Palestinian foreign minister joins in.

NASSER AL-KIDWA, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Obviously, now people understand that, at some point, somehow, there should be a Syrian withdrawal, and it seems that it's inevitable.

TODD: Assad himself told "TIME" magazine this week Syria should begin withdrawing its 15,000 troops from Lebanon soon. But how soon? A top official in Damascus, as well as Syria's ambassadors to Washington and the U.N. did not return our calls for comment.

Assad is expected to deliver a speech Saturday to Syria's parliament. A former top Lebanese official tells CNN he expects Assad to announce a partial withdrawal and a redeployment of some Syrian troops in Lebanon toward the border.

Analysts agree Assad may try to stall.

HISHAM MELHEM, CORRESPONDENT, "AN-NAHAR": He's going to backtrack a little. He would say, "Look, even logistically it will be extremely difficult for us to complete the withdrawal within a few months or, you know, within six months. Give me some time."

TODD: But how will that play, now that Russia, an historic Syrian ally, has joined the chorus and even the U.S. and France agree?

BUSH: When the United States and France and others say withdrawal, we mean complete withdrawal, no halfhearted measures.

TODD: Assad seems to have been caught off guard by the pace of events. Sparked by last month's assassination in Beirut of a former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri, the most powerful figure to contest Syria's occupation.

Thousands of Lebanese took to the streets, many blaming Damascus for the attack. Syria denied involvement. But the pressure now comes from much higher levels, and Mr. Assad's political survival may hinge on his response.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: The pressure also comes internally. Members of the Lebanese political opposition and some analysts say elements of the Syrian military and intelligence services have interests in Lebanon and are squeezing Mr. Assad to keep a Syrian presence there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd with the latest on that. We'll be watching that story. Brian, thank you very much.

The president's comments on Syria came as he kicked off a 60-day, 60-city campaign to sell his Social Security reform plan. The president told a crowd in Westfield, New Jersey, that within just 13 years the money going out of Social Security coffers will exceed the money coning in.

The president wants younger workers to be able to invest part of their Social Security taxes in private accounts, but according to recent polls that idea has at best only lukewarm support.

The president began his day by nominating a new chief for the Environmental Protection Agency. Acting administrator, Steve Johnson, has spent 24 years at the EPA. If confirmed, he'd be the first professional scientist to head the agency.

The president says he wants Johnson to press Congress to pass the Clear Skies Plan to reduce power plant pollution. The plan has stalled in the Senate. Critics say it doesn't go far enough.

Martha Stewart is out of prison and back where she wants to be, at home. Perhaps also she wants to be in the spotlight, because she is. The home making maven, turned convicted felon, returned to her estate in Bedford, New York, overnight, appearing thinner, happier, and may we mention, a lot richer than when she went to prison only five months ago.

CNN's Mary Snow is following all of these developments for us. She's joining us live from Bedford -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, not only is Martha Stewart back in the spotlight, she's embracing it. She certainly seemed to savor her first taste of freedom from prison.

And with so many wondering how she has changed since she's been in prison, it seems to be clear that one thing has stayed the same, and that's her resilience.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): With cameras watching her, helicopters overhead, perhaps Martha Stewart summed up her situation best, as she set out to make lemonade out of lemons. STEWART: People make jokes about making lemons into lemonade, but I actually really like lemons, and these are my first lemons in five months.

SNOW: Lemons to lemonade, convicted felon to media darling, Martha Stewart was out with her dog, petting her horses on her first day of freedom from five months in prison.

With Camp Cupcake a memory, Martha Stewart returned to her role as host, offering hot chocolate to the press and sharing a story about the lack of cappuccino in prison.

STEWART: This is a funny story. We'd ask the guards every day for cappuccino just as a joke. And they'd come in with their cups of coffee and stuff. And so I get here, and I have a spot for a cappuccino machine, and it didn't work. So I don't have any cappuccino.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn't have any cappuccino. She doesn't have any cappuccino. The cappuccino machine does not work.

STEWART: No, I didn't miss cappuccino at all. It's the idea I missed.

SNOW: Unlike her entrance to prison, Stewart made a very public exit with her daughter Alexis by her side, Stewart's company even going out of its way to accommodate the press, cameras capturing a smiling Stewart boarding a charter plane in Greenbrier, West Virginia, shortly after 1 a.m. in the morning.

Stewart issued a statement on her web site, saying the experience in Alderson has been life altering and life affirming, adding, "You can be sure I will never forget the friends that I met here," saying, "I'm thrilled to be returning to my more familiar life."

But as Stewart returned to her 153-acre estate in Bedford, all is not familiar. For the next five months of home confinement, she'll be allowed to leave for 48 hours a week, mostly for work, and she'll have to wear an electronic bracelet to monitor her movements.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, Stewart has until midnight on Sunday to contact her probation officer. Once they meet, that electronic device, that ankle bracelet, will be attached to her. That will stay on the entire time of home confinement.

And they'll also hammer out her schedule. Any kind of movement has to first be approved by that probation officer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Mary Snow in Bedford, New York. Thanks, Mary, very much.

When we come back, terrorism and a no torture policy, will the rules ever be changed?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: When you capture a terrorist who says, "A nuclear or radiological bomb is in Manhattan, it's going to go off in 30 minutes, and I'm not talking," would you then torture that person?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Hear the answer when I go one-on-one with the new attorney general of the United States, Alberto Gonzales.

Dangerous training: a Marine officer speaks out about risky training practices and what he calls a completes disregard for safety, a story you will see only on CNN.

And later, a view few Americans have ever seen. We'll take you for a rare look inside North Korea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Barely three weeks since his confirmation as attorney general, Alberto Gonzales appears to have moved into his new job with ease and confidence.

As you'll recall, during his confirmation hearing, the former White House counsel was sharply criticized by Democrats over his role in shaping policies on treatment of prisoners in the campaign on terror.

Just a short while ago I went over to the Justice Department to talk with him about that and other key issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Judge Gonzales, thanks for joining us. Congratulations on your new job.

Let's get to some of the issues of the day, first, before we get to some other material.

The horrible murder of the family of a federal judge in Chicago. What can be done to protect -- what should be done to protect these judges better than is being done right now?

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Wolf, it is an horrific crime, and it is intolerable that any official, particularly a federal judge, might be intimidated for fear of their safety, or fear of the safety of the lives of their family. And so we're looking at this very, very carefully, very closely.

BLITZER: You need new legislation, you need more money? What do you need to do for the marshals to protect federal judges and their families?

GONZALES: There's no indication right now, will -- there's no indication right now, Wolf, that -- that there was a failure in the protection by the marshal service of the judge, whether or not, if we'd additional marshals on the judge, would that have prevented this murder.

We need to find out the facts first. And that's what -- what we're doing right now, we've dedicated the FBI to work with Chicago Police Department to try to find out what happened here.

And once we get more information and look at the causes of what happened here, then I think we can assess as to what -- what remedies we can implement to prevent something like this from happening, again. But -- but believe me, this is -- this is a horrific crime. It's one that, as a former judge, I take very, very personally.

BLITZER: Did you ever feel threatened? Were you worried about your security?

GONZALES: I was never worried about -- about my own personal security, but as we have judges consider more and more some of these dangerous terrorist criminals, I can understand why there might be additional concerns about one's safety. And obviously we have a responsibility to ensure that the judges have sufficient protection, and that's something that we'll be looking at.

BLITZER: Was there ever a threat made against you or your family when you were sitting on the bench?

GONZALES: Not to my knowledge, Wolf.

BLITZER: Is there a problem in terms of the sense out there that there's white supremacist threat that could have resulted in these murders?

GONZALES: Of course, and we're worried about that. We take that very seriously.

BLITZER: Is that the leading theory right now, do you think?

GONZALES: I don't want to get into what could be the leading theory, but obviously, we're going to look at all possibilities. And that's what the bureau is doing -- is doing currently, working with the Chicago Police Department.

BLITZER: As we speak, the big story today, as you know, the release of Martha Stewart from the federal prison.

The federal prison sentencing guidelines, was this a good idea to send this woman to jail for five months, to prison for five months, given that she could have paid a huge fine. She could have done community service. Was this necessary, looking back?

GONZALES: We have -- we have certain laws that have to be enforced. In this particular case, prosecutors believed that laws were broken, and a jury of her peers decided that in fact she had committed a crime. And so our -- we have a system in our government, and that system worked in this particular case.

As to whether or not it's appropriate, I'm not sure it's really appropriate for me as the attorney general, after the fact, to characterize that as to whether or not it was appropriate or not. She committed a crime, and she's -- is repaying her debt back to society.

BLITZER: Looking down the road from now on, should there be some changes in these kinds of federal sentencing guidelines that would mandate a woman of her stature, shall we say, going to prison?

GONZALES: That will be a decision that will be made by a variety of people, including the Congress. We will be sitting down with Congress shortly to talk about the ramifications of the recent Supreme Court decision in Booker and Fanfan, saying that the guidelines were unconstitutional.

And so in response to your specific question, we'll just have to talk to Congress and to make a decision as to what is the best policy for these kinds of cases.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Much more coming up on my interview with the new attorney general of the United States, his thoughts on the alliance between Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. How concerned should we be?

Plus, training dangers: are some Marines being forced into unnecessarily dangerous practices? A U.S. Marine officer speaks out. Something you will see only here on CNN.

And she could reach out and almost touch North Korea. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara star gives us a rare look at that country. That, too, a story you'll only see here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now of my interview with the new attorney general, Alberto Gonzales.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Yesterday the president spoke about a communication between Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the No. 1 terrorist in Iraq right now. We're hearing there might have been a few communications that had been obtained by the U.S. government.

How worried should the American public be right now that these two men are plotting a terrorist attack here in the United States?

GONZALES: Wolf, I can't can say the threat is real. I don't want to get into specific numbers of communications, types and when, relating to communications between bin Laden and Zarqawi.

What I can say is that -- is that we receive intelligence briefings every day. We know the threat is still there. We know that al Qaeda and enemies of this country still continue to want to do harm to Americans and Americans' interests overseas. And so we take that threat very, very seriously.

And part of my job is to protect America, work with Michael Chertoff, the new secretary of homeland security, to defend America. That's the No. 1 priority for this department. And the president's given us that charge, and it's one that I'm going to try to discharge to the best of my ability.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the statement you made this week. You gave a speech. Let me read to you from what you said. You said, "I am willing to support improvements in our laws that make America safer. What I will not support are changes in the law that would make America more vulnerable to terrorist attacks."

Was that a signal that you were making that there possibly could be some revision in the Patriot Act, which has been controversial since 9/11, that you're opening yourself up to possibly considering some changes in the Patriot Act?

GONZALES: What I have said repeatedly and consistently is that -- is that I want to sit down with members of Congress and hear their concerns about the Patriot Act.

I think there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation about the provisions of the Patriot Act. And what I want to do is understand their concerns.

From what I hear from law enforcement is that these tools are very, very important. I also understand that no one can produce credible evidence of abuses under the Patriot Act.

And so I want to understand what are the sources of concern that people have? And so I'm very, very interested in having a dialogue about the Patriot Act.

However, the Patriot Act, I'm told, as I understand it, and I believe it to be true, has been effective. It's one of the reasons why we haven't had a terrorist attack in three years. And -- and I think we ought to proceed very cautiously in taking away a tool that's been successful in defending America.

BLITZER: But I hear you say, correct me if I'm wrong -- you're leaving the door open for a discussion with Congress about possibly making some modifications in the Patriot Act.

GONZALES: If we're talking about modifications that will make America safer and stronger. The president has said he believes the Patriot Act ought to -- should be reauthorized. And of course, I -- I stand with the president on that -- on that proposition.

But I also am willing to sit down with Congress and listen to their concerns and explain to them why we believe the Patriot Act and re-authorization of the Patriot Act is so very, very important to the safety of Americans.

BLITZER: Is torture ever justified? Can you imagine any cases where detainees, terror suspects, should be tortured to get information?

GONZALES: Wolf, the president has said we're not going to engage in torture. And as far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the debate. We don't -- we don't condone torture. And anyone who engages in torture is going to be held accountable.

BLITZER: Let me give you a hypothetical, because there's a lot of experts that say there are sometimes torture should occur, if there's a ticking bomb, for example. If you capture a terrorist who says, "A nuclear or radiological bomb is in Manhattan. It's going off in 30 minutes, and I'm not talking," would you then torture that person?

GONZALES: Wolf, that is a hypothetical that, fortunately, we've never had to confront. All I can tell you is that the president has said that we're not going to engage in torture. And we're not going to engage in torture.

BLITZER: But you could understand why some people think at times, rare, that option should be held open.

GONZALES: Wolf, I serve for a president who has said we're not going to engage in torture, and we're not going to get -- this country is not going to condone torture.

BLITZER: There are some CIA officers, active duty CIA officers, who are worried they may be prosecuted by the Justice Department for engaging in what some say was torture of detainees in Iraq or Afghanistan. Should they be worried that you're going to go after them?

GONZALES: Wolf, my understanding is, is that, and I believe this to be true, is that all authorized techniques, both by DOD and by CIA, that were reviewed by the Department of Justice, are in fact lawful. And so I'm presuming that -- that the techniques used by the CIA and by DOD were in fact consistent with the guidelines approved by the Department of Justice. Sometimes, people do things that they shouldn't do. People are imperfect. We have illegal conduct that occurs here in our prisons, when people know what the rules are.

And so the fact that abuses occurred, they're unfortunate. But I'm not sure that it should be viewed as surprising.

BLITZER: Because they are concerned, these CIA officers, that the rules of the game were murky at that point.

GONZALES: I don't think that they were murky. Again, the agencies were very careful -- they were concerned about doing -- they were concerned about doing anything that might violate the law. And so they came to the Department of Justice. This was before I became attorney general.

But they came to the Department of Justice and asked for guidance. And I understand that the department gave guidance to the agencies, and so they new what the rules of the game were. And I'm presuming that they conducted themselves accordingly.

BLITZER: A final question on Jose Padilla.

GONZALES: Padilla.

BLITZER: He wants to be called Jose Padilla now. His lawyers and he say he doesn't want to be called Jose Padilla anymore. He wants to be called Jose Padilla. So we will call him Jose Padilla.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: It's about three years. He was arrested at O'Hare Airport in Chicago. And he's been held without charges as an enemy combatant. Is this something that you can accept, that an American citizen just indefinitely being held in prison with no charges being filed against him?

GONZALES: Well, again, Jose Padilla is not being held in our criminal justice system. He's being held as an enemy combatant.

BLITZER: But is this right, for an American citizen to be treated like that?

GONZALES: Well, let me just say that it has been -- from -- throughout history, the laws of war allow countries to hold indefinitely, for the duration of the hostilities, people that they capture engaging in war against them, whether or not they are citizens of their own country.

That happened during World War II, where Americans were captured and they were treated as enemy combatants. Cases like this one presents some very, very difficult issues for us. As I said during a hearing this week, the United States has no desire to hold people indefinitely. We believe there should be some kind of disposition at an appropriate time.

Someone like Jose Padilla may have information, for example, that, if we had that information, it may save American lives, may save America from future attacks. We want to try to get that information, if possible. In my judgment, the United States does have the authority. The president does have the authority to detain someone as an enemy combatant who is engaging in war against the United States, even if they happen to be an American citizen.

If they happen to be an American citizen, they also, though, have the right of habeas. And they can go to a federal judge and try to have this federal judge determine whether or not the United States government is holding that American citizen lawfully or not. And that's what's happened in the case of Padilla. And so, a decision was made by the federal judge. And that decision is one that we disagree with and that we're going to appeal.

BLITZER: We have to, unfortunately, leave it right there.

Judge Gonzales, thanks very much for spending a few moments with us.

GONZALES: Thanks, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: When we come back, training dangers. Are submarine recruits being forced into harmful situations as part of their training? An officer speaks out only on CNN.

In the killings of a federal judge's mother and husband, investigators make a new move to try to get more help from the public.

And rare video shot just yards from North Korea. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr gives us a closer look at this Stalinist state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back.

A Marine officer speaks out about the use of what he says are unauthorized and unsafe training techniques. Are recruits in danger? Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jaime McIntyre, has the story you will see only on CNN. We will get to that in a moment.

First, though, this other story now in the news.

The FBI is hoping a $50,000 reward will lead to an arrest in the murder of a federal judge's husband and mother. The agency is putting up the reward four days after Judge Joan Lefkow found the two shot dead in her Chicago home. Investigators say they have no suspects in the killing.

Marine Corps boot camp is legendary for its toughness and ability to train young men and women for combat. But is the training safe? In the opinion of one Marine captain, the answer is no. He says higher-ups ignored his warnings of improper and unsafe training techniques. The Marine Corps denies the allegations and insists its training is safe.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jaime McIntyre, reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Nineteen-year-old Jason Tharp drowned at Parris Island February 8, a day after he was seen in a videotape taken by WIS-TV being shoved by a swim instructor. The South Carolina station reported he apparently resisted going into the water. It was that incident that prompted Marine Captain Delbert Marriott to contact CNN.

CAPT. DELBERT MARRIOTT, U.S. MARINE CORPS: My motivation is that a recruit drowned. My motivation is that, for three months, I was telling them this was going to be a problem. If we find a correlation or we don't find a correlation, it still doesn't change the fact that someone identified a problem.

MCINTYRE: Last month, Marriott's assignment was to review swim training at Camp Johnson, North Carolina, where many of the Parris Island trainers are trained.

The scathing conclusion of his November 30 report: "I found the biggest issue to be the complete disregard for safety." In a follow- up e-mail a week later, he warned superiors that drill sergeants were -- quote -- "doing their own thing and someone will die because of it."

MCINTYRE (on camera): Pretty strong stuff.

MARRIOTT: It is.

MCINTYRE: Was anything done at that point?

MARRIOTT: No. They are still down there instructing right now.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): "His accusations are totally false," is how Marriott's commander reacted when contacted by CNN. Lieutenant Colonel Gary Lambertsen (ph) told CNN he immediately stopped the practices questioned by Marriott pending further review.

Marriott documented the difficulty of one of those practices in this videotape. Could instructors do something required of their instructors in training, swim the demanding crawl stroke for nearly two miles, gradually shedding full combat gear? Marriott says the strong swimmer's struggled and one gave up.

MARRIOTT: If they have a hard time doing this stroke, imagine about the lance corporal that feels he needs to do this stroke to pass the course. He may drown trying to do the crawl stroke for 3,600 yards.

MCINTYRE: The Marine Corps argues there's no connection between the arduous training for top instructors at Camp Johnson and the basic course for fresh recruits at Parris Island. Marriott disagrees.

MARRIOTT: We are the lead school. So, if we have given an impression this kind of training is OK, well, when they go out to their commands, they're going to do the same type of training.

MCINTYRE: In his original report, Marriott also warned about sharking, instructors yanking students underwater while they played underwater hockey.

MARRIOTT: During the underwater hockey, the student was expected to go to the bottom of the pool holding their breath and push a 10- pound wait to the other side. Now, this is in full combat gear. Instructors jumped on students back whether they were (AUDIO GAP) or not.

MCINTYRE (on camera): That was an accident waiting to happen?

MARRIOTT: Absolutely it was. It was a death waiting to happen.

MCINTYRE: A Marine Corps spokesman declined to appear on camera, but vigorously disputed that the procedures now under review at Camp Johnson are unsafe, pointing out there's never been a drowning there or even a rescue.

And he said the three separate investigations into the death of Jason Tharp will include a thorough review of procedures at Parris Island as well.

(voice-over): Marriott, an accomplished triathlete, wants out of the Marine Corps and admits he doesn't have a spotless record. But he insists he has no personal agenda.

MARRIOTT: My motivation is that no one is going to apologize to this family. I will apologize. I'm sorry. I wish I could have done something.

MCINTYRE: Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Camp Johnson, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In a moment, yet another story you will see only on CNN, a rare glimpse into a closely guarded nation. From a slow boat in China, we'll give you a closer look into communist North Korea.

And President Bush says Karl Rove was the architect behind his political career. Are the Democrats answering Rove's skills with their own master mind? Our Carlos Watson has "The Inside Edge." That's coming up.

Also, welcoming the heroes home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It was not a pleasure cruise, but our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr found herself on a slow boat in China with an extraordinary sightseeing opportunity along the border with North Korea.

Here's her story only on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An early-morning flight from Beijing north to the city of Shenyang. CNN travels with a Pentagon team that has come to thank China for helping to find the remains of Captain Troy Cope, shot down 52 years ago during the Korean War.

The search for Captain Cope's remains took place along the Yalu River, the border between China and North Korea. He was shot down just inside China. But this journey will take an unexpected turn as the day unfolds. We travel one of China's most modern highways.

(on camera): We are now on a three-our drive through rural China to the city of Dandong, right on the North Korean-Chinese border.

(voice-over): Dandong, a bustling, colorful city Chinese port city of one million. We know North Korea is just across the river. But as we enter the city, it is so unexpected. There it is, the hermit kingdom, North Korea in full view. Our voices become hushed. We struggle to make out every detail. The shoreline of buildings and ships looks largely deserted. A lone patrol boat goes buy. We board a Chinese boat sailing past China's border control point at the bridge that joins both countries. The river is neutral territory.

But we are stunned when the boat sales within yards of the North Korean shoreline. The Chinese hosts know we are taking these sensitive pictures of a secretive North Korea. This is the North Korean town of Sinuiju. As the warehouses, buildings and shorelines go by, we see a country in economic collapse, smokestacks with no activity. We pass a bridge destroyed and never repaired, a ferris wheel that does not move. There is no electricity. At night, all of this is dark.

CNN turns off the video camera when the Chinese ask, but we are allowed to take photos. We sale next to North Korean fishing boats, dozens rusting, tied up.

(on camera): There is no money for fuel, a close look at a North Korea few Americans have ever seen and remembering an American who fell here in a war long ago.

Barbara Starr, CNN, on the Yalu River between North Korea and China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Setting the trend for the rest of the nation. Find out which state seems to be replacing California as the major trendsetter. Our Carlos Watson has "The Inside Edge on that and more. He's standing by. He joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we told you, President Bush is on the road pushing his plan for overhauling Social Security.

Joining us now from Mountain View, California, with his take on how this might play out, as well as other issues, our political analyst Carlos Watson with "The Inside Edge."

Carlos, this is a pivotal moment right now in the president's plan to reform Social Security. What's going on?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, as you know, he's kicking off a 60-day, 60-city tour where he hits 29 states in order to sell his plan and rally public opinion.

I think the big questions on this trip are, can the president do two things? One, can he not only rally public opinion and, in doing so, fundamentally convince people there is not only a crisis in terms of Social Security, but that he has actually the right fix? And, two, can he get a major co-signer, a major endorser? Remember how important Colin Powell was in helping the president in his first term sell his most difficult agenda item, which was the Iraqi war. Is there someone similar? Right now, we don't see that person, but don't be surprised if it's a nonpolitico.

The last big note on this whole thing is, when all is said and done, if the president is successful in the next 60 days, he still may not have enough of what he needs to get it over the top. And he might turn to something kind of unconventional, which may be an unusual on- the-air debate.

Remember, 12 years ago, "LARRY KING LIVE" hosted a debate between Al Gore and Ross Perot. At the end of that, support for NAFTA went from 34 percent to 57 percent and ultimately passed. So, don't be surprised to see something unusual like that after the tour.

BLITZER: Who could forget that debate.

Carlos, you are in California, which has, in recent years, at least, for many years, been a trendsetter for the rest of the country. But you see another state emerging as a trendsetter. What's going on?

WATSON: Well, you know what? I've got to go from my current state to my home state, where I grew up, which is Florida.

Over the last four or five years, while California remains an important trendsetter on stem cell research and a whole series of other things, increasingly, if you want to think about what's going to turn into national policy, you have got to think about Florida. We saw education reform there in part influence No Child Left Behind. We saw major tax reform there in the late '90s turn into a model for President Bush's tax cuts.

And now we are seeing big changes in Medicaid be discussed there, which ultimately could set the trend for what happens nationally. Even minimum wage, something that Florida Governor Jeb Bush opposed, but Floridians voted to increase it by $1, once it passed last year there in Florida, you now see almost a dozen states considering the same thing. So, Florida, along with California, the two sunshine states, if you will, are becoming the trendsetters.

BLITZER: One thing great about you, Carlos -- many great things about you, but one thing I love is that you are always looking for rising stars. Now, there's a new rising star, you believe, among Democratic political consultants. Tell us who he is.

WATSON: A lot of people are going to hear this name a lot over the next year. His name is George Lakoff, linguistics professor at U.C. Berkeley, who has for a number of years that Democrats have had trouble framing issues, finding the right words in order to get people excited about it.

Now, he's complimented conservatives for calling things like the estate tax the death tax. Now he's counseling Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean and others on how to fight not only the Social Security fight, but other fights. For example, gay marriage, he is saying, instead of talking about gay marriage, should talk about the right to marry. Instead of talking about a deficit, you should call it a baby tax. And so you are going to hear a lot from George Lakoff, who is going to help Democrats tweak their words, if you will, a super speechwriter. And, if he's successful, he could move the Democrats into a new, maybe successful era in 2006 and beyond.

BLITZER: Carlos, if our viewers want to hear more from you, what should they do?

WATSON: Well, guess what, Wolf? Our column is back, "The Inside Edge." You can certainly go to CNN.com and look on the politics home page. And over the next several hours, you can go to CNN.com/Carlos and see even more of it.

BLITZER: Carlos Watson always with "The Inside Edge," have a great weekend, Carlos.

WATSON: Good to see you. You, too.

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

And when we come back, just in time for the weekend, a happy homecoming for the crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A joyous homecoming makes our picture of the day; 3,000 sailors aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln received a hero's welcome as they pulled into their home port in Everett, Washington state. The sailors have been out to sea for five months. Some of that time was spent assisting with tsunami relief efforts. Forty sailors are returning home as new fathers. Congratulations to them.

See you Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk. Among my guests, the counselor to the president, Dan Bartlett.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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