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American Morning

Thousands of Syrians in Streets of Damascus; 'Kamber & May'

Aired March 09, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, have you seen these amazing pictures out of Texas? Unbelievable stuff. The woman saved from this boat on the surveillance tape here may have had the easy part. We'll talk to the man who with her. He's also inside that boat, but only for a short time. He was flushed literally through the dam's floodgate, sent about a half mile down the river. He's alive. He'll give us his story in a moment here.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Those pictures are pretty incredible.

HEMMER: Oh, yes.

O'BRIEN: Let's get a check of the headlines first, though. Carol Costello back with us.

Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news a gruesome discovery in Iraq. Iraqi police found nearly 30 bodies shot execution-style in the village of Rumana. That's near the Iraq/Syria border. Authorities believe the killings took place four days ago, but they're still investigating.

Former President Bill Clinton says he feels fine and he's calling his upcoming surgery no big deal. Clinton is planning to play golf in Florida today. The benefit tournament is for tsunami victims. Tomorrow, he's scheduled for follow-up surgery in New York. Doctors will be removing fluid and scar tissue that had built up after his quadruple heart-bypass last fall. They say the procedure is low risk.

Actor comedian Bill Cosby now being sued by a woman who claims he drugged and sexually assaulted her. The incident said to have taken place more than a year ago. Pennsylvania authorities announced last month they would not file criminal charges against Cosby, citing a lack of evidence. No immediate word on the new civil suit from Cosby's lawyer. The entertainer has previously denied the accusations.

And scientists are hoping to flyover and check out the inside of Mt. St. Helens. The volcano sent a column of ash and steam about 30,000 feet into the air. But there are no reports of any injuries or damage outside of the crater. It's just -- well, it just affected air travel a little bit in the Washington State area.

HEMMER: Let's hope that's all it does huh? Thank you, Carol.

Another day and another rally in the streets in the Middle East. Thousands of Syrians are in the streets Damascus at this hour, a show of support for their president, Bashar Assad, and their troops in Lebanon. Brent Sadler is in neighboring Beirut now. '

And, Brent, we saw these massive demonstrations yesterday in Lebanon. How do they relate to the rallies we're seeing in Syria to the east?

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, they relate quite closely, because the thousands who are now gathering in the Syrian capital, Damascus, are really out there to praise, to support Syria's leader, Bashar Al Assad, after he announced a few days ago that Syrian troops would begin a two-stage withdrawal from Lebanon, a withdrawal to the Syrian-Lebanese border, not out of Lebanon, still well inside Lebanon, and still falling way, way short of what U.S. President George W. Bush has been demanding all along.

The previous day, here in the Lebanese Capitol, we saw a massive turnout of pro-Syrian support. Several hundred thousands of demonstrators called on the streets by the Hezbollah Islamic Resistance, labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S. and Israel, responding to Syria's predicament vis a vis the United States and the U.N. Security Council resolution 1559. That's putting a lot of pressure on Syria.

Also, we have been seeing movements in the mountains, in the north and central parts of Lebanon, of Syrian troops moving to that first fallback position. What's really interesting, politically, on the ground right now, Bill, is that the Lebanese president, Emile Lahoud, a strong supporter of the Syrian president, is about to name a new prime minister, and guess who? The same prime minister who stood down, it seems, nine days ago, Omar Karami, picked to come back before he even left the post, still here as a caretaker government, and that's really going to upset the political opposition here -- Bill.

HEMMER: You mentioned the pullout, too, Brent. What is the effect on this pullout if these demonstrations continue?

SADLER: Well, Hezbollah is promising to continue a campaign of rallies against the U.S. position and against the United Nations position, vis a vis those troops. Troops will continue to move in sporadic formations to the border. They're not leaving. So expect that pressure, which has been cranking up on Syria, to be maintained by the Bush administration.

HEMMER: Fascinating to watch again today. Thanks, Brent, Brent Sadler in Beirut -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: In his speech addressing the war on terror, President Bush stressed the importance of Mideast freedom to fighting terror. So how was the message received by those on the right and left sides of the political aisle?

In Washington D.C. this morning, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber. Also, Cliff May, he's a former RNC communications director. He's now the president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

Good morning, gentlemen. As always, nice to see you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to it. Cliff, we're going to start with you. Do you think the president was a little bit too ambitious when he talked about tyranny in our world? He said we're determined to seek a and support growth of these Democratic movements in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in the world. A little over the top?

MAY: Not over the top. It's very, very ambitious. He is harkening back to the kind of thing that President Kennedy talked about, Franklin Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson. I don't think he believes we'll get rid of tyranny over the next four years, but he's essentially saying America's mission in the world is the spread of freedom and retreat of tyranny, and you don't want to just say, OK, it's a stalemate, let's just have a balance. We'll have freedom here. They're be tyranny in other places and it will just stay like that forever. It's OK. He's saying no, we've got to advance the cause of freedom.

HEMMER: Here's what Madeleine Albright had to say about it. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FMR. SECY. OF STATE: Democracy in various ways is being exhibited in these countries, but we're a long way from a democracy, and for the president to keep pushing and pushing and pushing in ways that sound like this is our program and not theirs, I'm not sure is truly helpful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Madeleine Albright, a person who would certainly know about these issues, saying this is not so helpful. Vic, what do you think?

KAMBER: Well, I think I'm somewhere between both Cliff and former Secretary Albright. I think it's terrific that the president has a global vision, a big picture, that he is promoting democracy throughout the world. There's no one that I think would support tyranny, and oppression and terrorism.

The difference is, again, how we approach it, reaching out to other world leaders to join us, making sure we don't discriminate, that we're treating Syria the same we're treating Saudi Arabia, that we're dealing with Iraq in the same way that we're dealing with Libya. I think you can't have it both ways. We'll be willing to take some dictators and some tyranny, as long as they say they're our friends, and we want to fight everybody else.

So I think to have the policy, to be thinking in the big picture, to be promoting democracy, it's a wonderful, wonderful thing. But I think we also have to do it with friends, and it has to be their idea when all is said and done.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about Dan Rather, because as you both know, he's stepping down from the anchor chair tonight after 24 years. Did you guys hear what Walter Cronkite had to say about him? He essentially said that maybe replacing him earlier would have been a better thing. Ouch, kind of tough. Do you think after 24 years, the guy deserves a little more respect, Cliff?

MAY: Well, the blood is in the water, and you get a lot of sharks coming around and taking a chunk out of it.

Look, he was in third place for a long time, and that's a difficult place to be in. Normally, you got, you know, Hertz, then you got Avis, then you got Budget. You've got Coke and Pepsi, and then you've got RC Cola. And he was sort of the RC Cola to a great extent.

There's another controversy, as you well know, which is that people right of center thought that for years, he was sort of spinning things from a kind of left liberal point of view, and they will not be sorry to see him go. On the other hand, they don't necessarily expect that whoever follows him is going to be more neutral, more fair, more balanced in the coverage of the news. There are a lot of people who would like to see more of a distinction between news reporting, analysis and editorial opinion, and it's gotten mushed together, not on this show, but a lot of other programs.

KAMBER: Soledad, you know, I'm a big Walter Cronkite fan, but people have to remember, Dan Rather pushed him out 24 years ago. There was a big threat, Roone Arledge offered Dan Rather a big spot at ABC. He said if he didn't get the CBS position at this point, he was going to leave and go to ABC. And so CBS made the effort, got rid of -- moved Cronkite out. So Rather starts in controversy, he leaves in controversy. I think he served CBS well for 24 years. But it's not unusual to see somebody keep attacking. I just thought Cronkite was a bigger man than he is.

O'BRIEN: Let's take just a few seconds to talk about these remarks from Teresa Heinz Kerry, because I think they're kind of interesting, but we don't have a lot of time. She basically said that she thinks, to some degree, the votes were miscounted, because you could hack into the computer system that would be involved in the vote counting.

Cliff, you're giving me a look like, can you believe this? It is almost six months later. What do you think?

MAY: I'm embarrassed for her. She's essentially accusing people of crimes with no evidence, and she's spinning conspiracy theories, and I just think it's wonderful for America that she's not the first lady right now. O'BRIEN: Ouch. Vic, what did you think?

KAMBER: I think we don't know exactly what's happened. We know there were problems in the last election. When elections are as close as the last two have been, we need to know that every vote that was counted was counted honestly. I think that to investigate, to find out, makes sense. We have a president today, but we do need to find out how honest the elections have been.

O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, we're out of time. As always, nice to see you, Victor Kamber and Clifford May joining us this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Getting ready for a blast from the past. A couple of commercial icons making a comeback. Andy has details on that. "Minding Your Business" in a moment here.

O'BRIEN: Also, look at these pictures. Hanging on for dear life. A woman survives a near disaster on the edge of a floodgate. Her friend, though, sucked through. He lives to tell the tale to us. Up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Dirk Hoekstra has gone literally over the edge and now he has lived to tell about it. He and a friend, Monica Barns, were boating in Austin, Texas, when they were sucked into an open floodgate of a dam. The woman, Monica, pulled up on a rope. You can see her in the boat there. But Dirk describes how he dropped over the falls and into a powerful current.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIRK HOEKSTRA, BOAT ACCIDENT SURVIVOR: We got sucked down to the wall, just to the right of the floodgate and the boat was facing, basically, we were facing away from the dam and also the current just whipped the boat 180 and slammed it into the floodgate, crushing the back of the boat and we took on quite a bit of water and that's when we both fell back. I pushed her up to the top and told her to grab on to whatever she could. And get as far up as she could. About a second later is when my feet got sucked in by the water gate and that's when I went through.

HEMMER: You were flushed down a waterfall. I think the way you described it, the waterfall is about a 100-foot drop.

HOEKSTRA: Yes.

HEMMER: What was running through your mind? I would imagine at some point, you didn't think you would get out of there. Is that right?

HOEKSTRA: Yes. I mean, when -- I barely got a good breath in right before I went down, and I just held on to my breath and pretty much all that kept going through my mind is I just didn't want to get stuck anywhere, you know, and not be able to maneuver. So I was just trying to stay calm and keep floating with the water. It just -- I mean, it was twisting me around like a rag doll and threw my arms all over the place.

And it just keeps flipping you from whirlpool to whirlpool. About a half mile down the river, quarter to half a mile is when I finally surfaced and got my first breath and got sucked back in a few more whirlpools for about another minute, I'd say, two minutes. And finally was able to arch enough up to get to the shore.

HEMMER: You're one lucky guy, aren't you, Dirk?

HOEKSTRA: Yes, very lucky guy.

HEMMER: You saw the videotape last night for the first time. What came back to mind when you watched it?

HOEKSTRA: It was just -- when we both fell to the back of the boat and, you know, my main concern was just trying to get her up to the top and I thought she had come down right after me. So as soon as I gained footage on the shore, I was just screaming for her name, just trying to find her in the water. Then I made it up the shore to a house and called 911 and found out she was OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: In the end, Dirk's OK. Good thing, too. Lucky guy. Monica Barns is OK, too, by the way, his friend inside the boat. Austin, Texas -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Did you see Jay Leno last night? He's still calling on his guest comedians to deliver parts of his monologue when it comes to the Michael Jackson jokes. On Tuesday night, Roseanne Barr offered Jay's take on the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSEANNE BARR, COMEDIAN: E Entertainment is doing daily reenactments of the Michael Jackson trial. And now so is Nickelodeon, Jay.

JAY LENO, "TONIGHT SHOW" HOST: Really?

BARR: Take a look.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order, order. Are you ready, Mr. Jackson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor.

(LAUGHTER)

LENO: All righty! Roseanne Barr, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you!

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: That's pretty funny. I have to say, sometimes, you know, those have been pretty good. Sometimes delivered better than maybe Jay himself.

HEMMER: And if the trial goes on for five months, you know, he's going to have all kinds of material.

O'BRIEN: Yes, I think it's a very clever idea. I thought it was hysterical.

HEMMER: Roseanne Barr from last night.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and Leno, of course, the whole reason behind this, he might be a witness.

HEMMER: So the gag order.

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's the problem.

HEMMER: In a moment here, one of the most famous ad campaigns of all time making a comeback. You can be a part of it too, we understand. Andy explains in a moment here, "Minding Your Business" after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back.

Here's a look at one of the most popular stories on CNN.com today. An Italian court tells a man with only six months left to live that he's going to have to wait 14 months to hear the outcome of his insurance lawsuit. The 39-year-old man was left paralyzed from a motorcycle crash over a decade ago; he has since developed a lethal spine disease. He's supposed to get about $600,000 in damages from his insurers, but in Italy, it takes an average of eight years for a sentence in a civil case.

Wow, that's tough news for him.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed.

Remembering the good old days of the stock market and Wrigley double-doubles its ads. With those stories and a look at the market, Andy Serwer's here "Minding Your Business".

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Jack. Thank you.

A lot of people out there five years ago were a lot richer then than they are now. We're going to preview an event that comes up tomorrow. Five years ago tomorrow, March 10, 2000, the Nasdaq peaked at 5049. Today, in fact, five years ago, the Nasdaq got over 5,000 for the first time. And of course, this all had everything to do with the tech boom. And you can tell that now that we start to get distance from that point, because some of the other -- here are some of the greatest misses of the Nasdaq, by the way. The greatest misses.

HEMMER: Remember these? Wow.

SERWER: You must remember this. When I was rich. Look at those. You know, we didn't put percents up, because you can't even do the math. It's just awful. Interesting thing, the S&P 500 only down 10 percent in those five years. And, in fact, the Dow is actually up 10 percent from where we were five years ago. And because -- remember, it only got over 11,000 a few times after that, and we're almost, we're close to 11,000 now. So it's pretty interesting stuff.

Let's talk about Wrigley gum. Remember Doublemint? You remember these old commercials. "Double your pleasure, double your fun."

O'BRIEN: The twins.

SERWER: Is that really a mirror? You know how they do this. Yes.

And these campaigns went on for decades and decades, and then some genius over in Chicago decided that, you know, it's looking a little long in the tooth, so they got rid of the commercials. And now, they're bringing them back. These advertising people, they pay 'em a lot of money. And they're going to actually have a casting call. You can go to the Web site, and there are some more modern look at them. Anyway, they're going to accept twins, people can put their pictures in.

And Bill Hemmer came up with the idea. I can't stop him from doing this. We have sort of a twin-like thing. A look-alike thing. Is that Gary Cooper again, Bill?

HEMMER: Or is that Jack Cafferty?

SERWER: And he did that again, the Gary Cooper thing, again. So, that could be a chewing gum commercial, Jack.

CAFFERTY: I look nothing like Gary Cooper.

O'BRIEN: I'm with you. I'm mean, I think you're a handsome man, but you do not look like Gary Cooper.

HEMMER: Let me set the record straight. It was on the cover of the DVD of "High Noon" from 1952, I think, and if you look at Gary Cooper walking down that dusty town. He looks like Sheriff Cafferty.

O'BRIEN: He doesn't look like Jack Cafferty, not at all.

SERWER: You could do a chewing gum commercial, Jack.

CAFFERTY: There's only one of me and a lot of people are grateful for that.

HEMMER: Single your pleasure.

CAFFERTY: It's Wednesday, time now for "Things People Say." Beginning with this: "We need soldiers in Falluja who shoot straight, not necessarily who are straight." Patrick Guerrero, the president of the gay rights group, Log Cabin Republicans, saying the U.S. military should drop its "don't ask-don't tell" policy.

"I'm the George Washington of mayors -- I cannot tell a lie. If they didn't want the answer, the kid shouldn't have asked the question. It's me, what can I do?" This is the Las Vegas mayor, Oscar Goodman, on telling a group of fourth-graders that he'd want a bottle of gin if he was marooned on a desert island. The man is a moron. Soon to be ex-mayor. Take a bottle of gin with you when you go find your next job.

Or this: "My biggest weakness is my sensitivity. I'm too sensitive a person," Mike Tyson, former boxer, convicted rapist, guy who bit off Evander Holyfield's ear in a fight in 1997. Too sensitive.

SERWER: He is. So is the ear.

CAFFERTY: I have a couple more here.

SERWER: You go.

CAFFERTY: People in the deep South are going, "We've had cloning for years; it's called cousins." That would be Robin Williams at a benefit in New York City.

And my favorite quote of the last week is this one. "Forty is old; the only time 40 is young is if you die at 40 or if you're sleeping with Cher." That's comedian Chris Rock, who apparently has issues with his age.

SERWER: Now, why didn't he tell that at the Oscars?

HEMMER: Bingo.

SERWER: That was a good one.

CAFFERTY: Maybe Cher was there.

SERWER: Yes.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

Bill Clinton is now getting ready for his second surgery in only six months. And Dr. Gupta's back in a moment here, explaining the rare complication from his quadruple-bypass.

And now, what's ahead for him on the road to recovery? Back in a moment here, top of the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 9, 2005 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, have you seen these amazing pictures out of Texas? Unbelievable stuff. The woman saved from this boat on the surveillance tape here may have had the easy part. We'll talk to the man who with her. He's also inside that boat, but only for a short time. He was flushed literally through the dam's floodgate, sent about a half mile down the river. He's alive. He'll give us his story in a moment here.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Those pictures are pretty incredible.

HEMMER: Oh, yes.

O'BRIEN: Let's get a check of the headlines first, though. Carol Costello back with us.

Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news a gruesome discovery in Iraq. Iraqi police found nearly 30 bodies shot execution-style in the village of Rumana. That's near the Iraq/Syria border. Authorities believe the killings took place four days ago, but they're still investigating.

Former President Bill Clinton says he feels fine and he's calling his upcoming surgery no big deal. Clinton is planning to play golf in Florida today. The benefit tournament is for tsunami victims. Tomorrow, he's scheduled for follow-up surgery in New York. Doctors will be removing fluid and scar tissue that had built up after his quadruple heart-bypass last fall. They say the procedure is low risk.

Actor comedian Bill Cosby now being sued by a woman who claims he drugged and sexually assaulted her. The incident said to have taken place more than a year ago. Pennsylvania authorities announced last month they would not file criminal charges against Cosby, citing a lack of evidence. No immediate word on the new civil suit from Cosby's lawyer. The entertainer has previously denied the accusations.

And scientists are hoping to flyover and check out the inside of Mt. St. Helens. The volcano sent a column of ash and steam about 30,000 feet into the air. But there are no reports of any injuries or damage outside of the crater. It's just -- well, it just affected air travel a little bit in the Washington State area.

HEMMER: Let's hope that's all it does huh? Thank you, Carol.

Another day and another rally in the streets in the Middle East. Thousands of Syrians are in the streets Damascus at this hour, a show of support for their president, Bashar Assad, and their troops in Lebanon. Brent Sadler is in neighboring Beirut now. '

And, Brent, we saw these massive demonstrations yesterday in Lebanon. How do they relate to the rallies we're seeing in Syria to the east?

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, they relate quite closely, because the thousands who are now gathering in the Syrian capital, Damascus, are really out there to praise, to support Syria's leader, Bashar Al Assad, after he announced a few days ago that Syrian troops would begin a two-stage withdrawal from Lebanon, a withdrawal to the Syrian-Lebanese border, not out of Lebanon, still well inside Lebanon, and still falling way, way short of what U.S. President George W. Bush has been demanding all along.

The previous day, here in the Lebanese Capitol, we saw a massive turnout of pro-Syrian support. Several hundred thousands of demonstrators called on the streets by the Hezbollah Islamic Resistance, labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S. and Israel, responding to Syria's predicament vis a vis the United States and the U.N. Security Council resolution 1559. That's putting a lot of pressure on Syria.

Also, we have been seeing movements in the mountains, in the north and central parts of Lebanon, of Syrian troops moving to that first fallback position. What's really interesting, politically, on the ground right now, Bill, is that the Lebanese president, Emile Lahoud, a strong supporter of the Syrian president, is about to name a new prime minister, and guess who? The same prime minister who stood down, it seems, nine days ago, Omar Karami, picked to come back before he even left the post, still here as a caretaker government, and that's really going to upset the political opposition here -- Bill.

HEMMER: You mentioned the pullout, too, Brent. What is the effect on this pullout if these demonstrations continue?

SADLER: Well, Hezbollah is promising to continue a campaign of rallies against the U.S. position and against the United Nations position, vis a vis those troops. Troops will continue to move in sporadic formations to the border. They're not leaving. So expect that pressure, which has been cranking up on Syria, to be maintained by the Bush administration.

HEMMER: Fascinating to watch again today. Thanks, Brent, Brent Sadler in Beirut -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: In his speech addressing the war on terror, President Bush stressed the importance of Mideast freedom to fighting terror. So how was the message received by those on the right and left sides of the political aisle?

In Washington D.C. this morning, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber. Also, Cliff May, he's a former RNC communications director. He's now the president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

Good morning, gentlemen. As always, nice to see you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to it. Cliff, we're going to start with you. Do you think the president was a little bit too ambitious when he talked about tyranny in our world? He said we're determined to seek a and support growth of these Democratic movements in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in the world. A little over the top?

MAY: Not over the top. It's very, very ambitious. He is harkening back to the kind of thing that President Kennedy talked about, Franklin Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson. I don't think he believes we'll get rid of tyranny over the next four years, but he's essentially saying America's mission in the world is the spread of freedom and retreat of tyranny, and you don't want to just say, OK, it's a stalemate, let's just have a balance. We'll have freedom here. They're be tyranny in other places and it will just stay like that forever. It's OK. He's saying no, we've got to advance the cause of freedom.

HEMMER: Here's what Madeleine Albright had to say about it. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FMR. SECY. OF STATE: Democracy in various ways is being exhibited in these countries, but we're a long way from a democracy, and for the president to keep pushing and pushing and pushing in ways that sound like this is our program and not theirs, I'm not sure is truly helpful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Madeleine Albright, a person who would certainly know about these issues, saying this is not so helpful. Vic, what do you think?

KAMBER: Well, I think I'm somewhere between both Cliff and former Secretary Albright. I think it's terrific that the president has a global vision, a big picture, that he is promoting democracy throughout the world. There's no one that I think would support tyranny, and oppression and terrorism.

The difference is, again, how we approach it, reaching out to other world leaders to join us, making sure we don't discriminate, that we're treating Syria the same we're treating Saudi Arabia, that we're dealing with Iraq in the same way that we're dealing with Libya. I think you can't have it both ways. We'll be willing to take some dictators and some tyranny, as long as they say they're our friends, and we want to fight everybody else.

So I think to have the policy, to be thinking in the big picture, to be promoting democracy, it's a wonderful, wonderful thing. But I think we also have to do it with friends, and it has to be their idea when all is said and done.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about Dan Rather, because as you both know, he's stepping down from the anchor chair tonight after 24 years. Did you guys hear what Walter Cronkite had to say about him? He essentially said that maybe replacing him earlier would have been a better thing. Ouch, kind of tough. Do you think after 24 years, the guy deserves a little more respect, Cliff?

MAY: Well, the blood is in the water, and you get a lot of sharks coming around and taking a chunk out of it.

Look, he was in third place for a long time, and that's a difficult place to be in. Normally, you got, you know, Hertz, then you got Avis, then you got Budget. You've got Coke and Pepsi, and then you've got RC Cola. And he was sort of the RC Cola to a great extent.

There's another controversy, as you well know, which is that people right of center thought that for years, he was sort of spinning things from a kind of left liberal point of view, and they will not be sorry to see him go. On the other hand, they don't necessarily expect that whoever follows him is going to be more neutral, more fair, more balanced in the coverage of the news. There are a lot of people who would like to see more of a distinction between news reporting, analysis and editorial opinion, and it's gotten mushed together, not on this show, but a lot of other programs.

KAMBER: Soledad, you know, I'm a big Walter Cronkite fan, but people have to remember, Dan Rather pushed him out 24 years ago. There was a big threat, Roone Arledge offered Dan Rather a big spot at ABC. He said if he didn't get the CBS position at this point, he was going to leave and go to ABC. And so CBS made the effort, got rid of -- moved Cronkite out. So Rather starts in controversy, he leaves in controversy. I think he served CBS well for 24 years. But it's not unusual to see somebody keep attacking. I just thought Cronkite was a bigger man than he is.

O'BRIEN: Let's take just a few seconds to talk about these remarks from Teresa Heinz Kerry, because I think they're kind of interesting, but we don't have a lot of time. She basically said that she thinks, to some degree, the votes were miscounted, because you could hack into the computer system that would be involved in the vote counting.

Cliff, you're giving me a look like, can you believe this? It is almost six months later. What do you think?

MAY: I'm embarrassed for her. She's essentially accusing people of crimes with no evidence, and she's spinning conspiracy theories, and I just think it's wonderful for America that she's not the first lady right now. O'BRIEN: Ouch. Vic, what did you think?

KAMBER: I think we don't know exactly what's happened. We know there were problems in the last election. When elections are as close as the last two have been, we need to know that every vote that was counted was counted honestly. I think that to investigate, to find out, makes sense. We have a president today, but we do need to find out how honest the elections have been.

O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, we're out of time. As always, nice to see you, Victor Kamber and Clifford May joining us this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Getting ready for a blast from the past. A couple of commercial icons making a comeback. Andy has details on that. "Minding Your Business" in a moment here.

O'BRIEN: Also, look at these pictures. Hanging on for dear life. A woman survives a near disaster on the edge of a floodgate. Her friend, though, sucked through. He lives to tell the tale to us. Up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

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HEMMER: Dirk Hoekstra has gone literally over the edge and now he has lived to tell about it. He and a friend, Monica Barns, were boating in Austin, Texas, when they were sucked into an open floodgate of a dam. The woman, Monica, pulled up on a rope. You can see her in the boat there. But Dirk describes how he dropped over the falls and into a powerful current.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIRK HOEKSTRA, BOAT ACCIDENT SURVIVOR: We got sucked down to the wall, just to the right of the floodgate and the boat was facing, basically, we were facing away from the dam and also the current just whipped the boat 180 and slammed it into the floodgate, crushing the back of the boat and we took on quite a bit of water and that's when we both fell back. I pushed her up to the top and told her to grab on to whatever she could. And get as far up as she could. About a second later is when my feet got sucked in by the water gate and that's when I went through.

HEMMER: You were flushed down a waterfall. I think the way you described it, the waterfall is about a 100-foot drop.

HOEKSTRA: Yes.

HEMMER: What was running through your mind? I would imagine at some point, you didn't think you would get out of there. Is that right?

HOEKSTRA: Yes. I mean, when -- I barely got a good breath in right before I went down, and I just held on to my breath and pretty much all that kept going through my mind is I just didn't want to get stuck anywhere, you know, and not be able to maneuver. So I was just trying to stay calm and keep floating with the water. It just -- I mean, it was twisting me around like a rag doll and threw my arms all over the place.

And it just keeps flipping you from whirlpool to whirlpool. About a half mile down the river, quarter to half a mile is when I finally surfaced and got my first breath and got sucked back in a few more whirlpools for about another minute, I'd say, two minutes. And finally was able to arch enough up to get to the shore.

HEMMER: You're one lucky guy, aren't you, Dirk?

HOEKSTRA: Yes, very lucky guy.

HEMMER: You saw the videotape last night for the first time. What came back to mind when you watched it?

HOEKSTRA: It was just -- when we both fell to the back of the boat and, you know, my main concern was just trying to get her up to the top and I thought she had come down right after me. So as soon as I gained footage on the shore, I was just screaming for her name, just trying to find her in the water. Then I made it up the shore to a house and called 911 and found out she was OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: In the end, Dirk's OK. Good thing, too. Lucky guy. Monica Barns is OK, too, by the way, his friend inside the boat. Austin, Texas -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Did you see Jay Leno last night? He's still calling on his guest comedians to deliver parts of his monologue when it comes to the Michael Jackson jokes. On Tuesday night, Roseanne Barr offered Jay's take on the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSEANNE BARR, COMEDIAN: E Entertainment is doing daily reenactments of the Michael Jackson trial. And now so is Nickelodeon, Jay.

JAY LENO, "TONIGHT SHOW" HOST: Really?

BARR: Take a look.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order, order. Are you ready, Mr. Jackson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor.

(LAUGHTER)

LENO: All righty! Roseanne Barr, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you!

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: That's pretty funny. I have to say, sometimes, you know, those have been pretty good. Sometimes delivered better than maybe Jay himself.

HEMMER: And if the trial goes on for five months, you know, he's going to have all kinds of material.

O'BRIEN: Yes, I think it's a very clever idea. I thought it was hysterical.

HEMMER: Roseanne Barr from last night.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and Leno, of course, the whole reason behind this, he might be a witness.

HEMMER: So the gag order.

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's the problem.

HEMMER: In a moment here, one of the most famous ad campaigns of all time making a comeback. You can be a part of it too, we understand. Andy explains in a moment here, "Minding Your Business" after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back.

Here's a look at one of the most popular stories on CNN.com today. An Italian court tells a man with only six months left to live that he's going to have to wait 14 months to hear the outcome of his insurance lawsuit. The 39-year-old man was left paralyzed from a motorcycle crash over a decade ago; he has since developed a lethal spine disease. He's supposed to get about $600,000 in damages from his insurers, but in Italy, it takes an average of eight years for a sentence in a civil case.

Wow, that's tough news for him.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed.

Remembering the good old days of the stock market and Wrigley double-doubles its ads. With those stories and a look at the market, Andy Serwer's here "Minding Your Business".

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Jack. Thank you.

A lot of people out there five years ago were a lot richer then than they are now. We're going to preview an event that comes up tomorrow. Five years ago tomorrow, March 10, 2000, the Nasdaq peaked at 5049. Today, in fact, five years ago, the Nasdaq got over 5,000 for the first time. And of course, this all had everything to do with the tech boom. And you can tell that now that we start to get distance from that point, because some of the other -- here are some of the greatest misses of the Nasdaq, by the way. The greatest misses.

HEMMER: Remember these? Wow.

SERWER: You must remember this. When I was rich. Look at those. You know, we didn't put percents up, because you can't even do the math. It's just awful. Interesting thing, the S&P 500 only down 10 percent in those five years. And, in fact, the Dow is actually up 10 percent from where we were five years ago. And because -- remember, it only got over 11,000 a few times after that, and we're almost, we're close to 11,000 now. So it's pretty interesting stuff.

Let's talk about Wrigley gum. Remember Doublemint? You remember these old commercials. "Double your pleasure, double your fun."

O'BRIEN: The twins.

SERWER: Is that really a mirror? You know how they do this. Yes.

And these campaigns went on for decades and decades, and then some genius over in Chicago decided that, you know, it's looking a little long in the tooth, so they got rid of the commercials. And now, they're bringing them back. These advertising people, they pay 'em a lot of money. And they're going to actually have a casting call. You can go to the Web site, and there are some more modern look at them. Anyway, they're going to accept twins, people can put their pictures in.

And Bill Hemmer came up with the idea. I can't stop him from doing this. We have sort of a twin-like thing. A look-alike thing. Is that Gary Cooper again, Bill?

HEMMER: Or is that Jack Cafferty?

SERWER: And he did that again, the Gary Cooper thing, again. So, that could be a chewing gum commercial, Jack.

CAFFERTY: I look nothing like Gary Cooper.

O'BRIEN: I'm with you. I'm mean, I think you're a handsome man, but you do not look like Gary Cooper.

HEMMER: Let me set the record straight. It was on the cover of the DVD of "High Noon" from 1952, I think, and if you look at Gary Cooper walking down that dusty town. He looks like Sheriff Cafferty.

O'BRIEN: He doesn't look like Jack Cafferty, not at all.

SERWER: You could do a chewing gum commercial, Jack.

CAFFERTY: There's only one of me and a lot of people are grateful for that.

HEMMER: Single your pleasure.

CAFFERTY: It's Wednesday, time now for "Things People Say." Beginning with this: "We need soldiers in Falluja who shoot straight, not necessarily who are straight." Patrick Guerrero, the president of the gay rights group, Log Cabin Republicans, saying the U.S. military should drop its "don't ask-don't tell" policy.

"I'm the George Washington of mayors -- I cannot tell a lie. If they didn't want the answer, the kid shouldn't have asked the question. It's me, what can I do?" This is the Las Vegas mayor, Oscar Goodman, on telling a group of fourth-graders that he'd want a bottle of gin if he was marooned on a desert island. The man is a moron. Soon to be ex-mayor. Take a bottle of gin with you when you go find your next job.

Or this: "My biggest weakness is my sensitivity. I'm too sensitive a person," Mike Tyson, former boxer, convicted rapist, guy who bit off Evander Holyfield's ear in a fight in 1997. Too sensitive.

SERWER: He is. So is the ear.

CAFFERTY: I have a couple more here.

SERWER: You go.

CAFFERTY: People in the deep South are going, "We've had cloning for years; it's called cousins." That would be Robin Williams at a benefit in New York City.

And my favorite quote of the last week is this one. "Forty is old; the only time 40 is young is if you die at 40 or if you're sleeping with Cher." That's comedian Chris Rock, who apparently has issues with his age.

SERWER: Now, why didn't he tell that at the Oscars?

HEMMER: Bingo.

SERWER: That was a good one.

CAFFERTY: Maybe Cher was there.

SERWER: Yes.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

Bill Clinton is now getting ready for his second surgery in only six months. And Dr. Gupta's back in a moment here, explaining the rare complication from his quadruple-bypass.

And now, what's ahead for him on the road to recovery? Back in a moment here, top of the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

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