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Counterintelligence Officers Worried Al Qaeda Attempting To Infiltrate Spy Agencies; Network News Shows' Audience Continue To Decline; Howard Stringer Named New Head Of Sony

Aired March 13, 2005 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: From New York City, America's financial capital. This is IN THE MONEY.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JACK CAFFERTY, HOST: Welcome to IN THE MONEY. I'm Jack Cafferty. Coming up on today's program:

That's one killer resume: Counterintelligence officials are wondering if al-Qaeda's pals are looking for jobs inside of U.S. spy agencies. How scary is that? We'll see how real the threat is.

Plus network news from B.C. to A.D. That would be before cable to after Dan. We'll look at whether the networks are bringing you a classic or a dinosaur.

And watch your mouth: Business jargon can make corporate people sound like corporate tools, or corporate fools. Listen to an author who's out to get them to speak English that we can all understand, yet again.

Joining me today, a couple of IN THE MONEY veterans, CNN correspondent Susan Lisovicz, "Fortune" magazine editor-at-large Andy Serwer.

This is probably not typical fare for a business-oriented program, but it's worth noting that last Friday morning, a guy on trial for rape got a hold of a deputy's gun on the eighth floor of the courthouse in Atlanta Georgia, killed a judge, shot up the place, wounding several other people. This comes on the heels of the family of a judge in Chicago being murdered. It reminds us, I guess, of the vulnerability of being a judge, particularly on violent criminal trials, but more than that I think it raises, I think, some questions about security particularly inside of a courthouse where these trials go on day after day after day. This occurred on the eighth floor and the guy got away, at least the time we taped this program, he was on the loose.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Well, it's really horrifying stuff. I mean, these judges are the very backbone of our society. There is security in courthouses, obviously, in terms of metal detectors and security personnel with guns. Unfortunately that was a situation which turned upon the judge himself. But, for the most part, you know, judges have listed phone numbers, very often. Their kids go to normal schools, they don't have body guards. And if we start to have a society where they're going to need bodyguards, then that is really bad news for all of us, I think.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right and the -- what should, of course, be underscored by this is that judges make tough decisions. They send people away. People get disgruntled, people who already have a violent tendency, and these judges make these decisions and you do not want these judges to live in fear that not only could they be harmed by their decisions, but their family and that was the case in Chicago.

SERWER: Well, that reminds me of Iraq, where we've seen judges assassinated and they're targets and we think, oh my god, what an uncivilized place and how could that happen? And then you look -- look at ourselves. Take a look at ourselves, it's really just terrible.

CAFFERTY: Sure, and not to minimize them at all, but retribution against police, lawyers, judges -- as old, I guess, as the criminal element in this country. The fact that two incidents of this violent nature happened so close together brings our attention right to it and causes us all to raise our eyebrows a little bit.

All right, on to other things. Here's a first, the words "human resources" and "exciting" in the same sentence. As in "things may be getting exciting for the human resources people of the CIA." Seriously, one of the agency's counterintelligence officials is raising the possibility that al-Qaeda's friends and sympathizers might be looking for jobs within that U.S. spy service. It's not clear whether anyone's been assigned to try it or not, but other counterintelligence pros are not dismissing this idea as preposterous as it seems.

To help us figure out how big a deal it really is, we're joined, from Washington now, by Bob Drogin, who's the national security correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times."

Bob, this seems almost preposterous that someone sympathetic to or affiliated with somebody like al-Qaeda could actually be employed in our most sensitive national security agency, the CIA. Is it even possible? Obviously somebody thinks it is, but under what conditions could something like this happen?

BOB DROGIN, "L.A. TIMES": Well, it's very possible because the people that they're looking for, precisely, are the kinds of people that would have access to al-Qaeda. They're specifically trying to hire people who have language skills, who can blend into foreign cultures, who would not be suspicious on the streets of whatever capital's you're trying to recruit agents who can get you close inside the leadership. The problem for them is the -- it's precisely those kinds of people who are the hardest for them to do background checks on. People who have been -- you know in street demonstrations or have lots of foreign relatives, or people who've grown up overseas. These are not the kind of college educated spies that certainly the CIA was using 30 years ago, 20 years ago. So it is very possible. LISOVICZ: Bob, you know, it's really one of these catch-22s, because the wake of 9-20 -- not September 11, we had such a failure of intelligence, so now there's this real effort to get people on the ground, as you said, Arabic-speaking people who may not be American- born. But having said that, there are some things we could do in the United States, like our privacy laws, for instance, prevent all of the security agencies, the intelligence agencies, from talking to one another, is that correct.

DROGIN: Well, there are some limitations. I'm not sure if it prevents them all from talking to one another, but it's not just -- remember this is not just about the CIA versus the NSA. It's about the Defense Department and it's about defense contractors, who quite frankly, -- and subcontractors, who do a great deal of the classified work on the systems. So, it is -- it's a much broader thing than just the guy who gets turned down at the CIA and then crosses the street and tries to get a job at the NRO or the NSA.

SERWER: Yeah Bob, I am shaking my head a little bit at this one, because, you know, having spent a lot of time in Washington, especially growing up, you know, when I hear about the CIA having problems with counterintelligence, I'm thinking back to James Jesus Angleton and the descent into paranoia that the CIA went to in those previous decades when he headed up counterintelligence, basically crippled that agency for decades. Are we starting to see some of that here?

DROGIN: Well, it's a possibility. You know, in my story, I quoted Paul Redmond who's, you know, a legendary spy catcher out at the CIA and he said it, you know, frankly if you do this long enough, you go crazy. You think everyone is a spy.

And you look at the most recent cases which, frankly, were down in Guantanamo Bay, where there were allegations and arrests on a supposed Syrian spy ring. Three men, including a chaplain, and it all blew up in their face. I mean, it really is a problem. How far do you go to chase these people?

You have to be, obviously, very vigilant and very prudent, and yet you see shadows inside the shadows. It's a real problem for them.

CAFFERTY: You can characterize the way things are being done right now to try to deal with what is either a real or a perceived threat? How is the agency going about trying to prevent this kind of thing?

DROGIN: Well, it's not just the CIA. Remember, there are 15 intelligence agencies and they're all under tremendous pressure to hire right now. They are all going through the largest hiring spree since the height of the Cold War. So they are, at the same time they are reaching out, they are in competition, in some cases, for the same people.

I mean, if you have a security clearance and you are fluent in a -- one of the target languages, I mean, you can sort of name your own price out there, right now. So it's a real -- it's a competition on one level and yet -- and because they are trying to get so many people into the system, they've had to subcontract out the background checks and I think that's also part of the problem, here.

CAFFERTY: Been talking to Bob Drogin who's the national security correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times."

Bob, thanks for being on IN THE MONEY.

When we continue, yesterday's news and what it means for tomorrow. As Dan Rather gets out of the anchor chair, we'll look at whether network news has the chops to survive.

Plus, Rather's old boss says he's the tips for the future: Gadgets. See how Wall Street likes Howard Stringer as the new head of Sony.

And how to kill a romance in a single meal: You don't want to know but our "Fun Site of the Week" is going to show you anyway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN RATHER, FMR. CBS ANCHOR: We've shared a lot in the 24 years we've been meeting here each evening and before I say goodnight, this night, I need it say thank you. Thank you to the thousands of wonderful professionals at CBS News, past and present, with whom it's been my honor to work over these years. And a deeply-felt thanks to all of you who have let us into your homes night after night. It has been a privilege and one never taken lightly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: Dan Rather, winding up his career after 24 years as the anchor of the CBS "Evening News" this week, thanking his viewing audience and his colleagues at "CBS News." It's a viewing audience that is much smaller today than it was 24 years ago when Rather stepped into the anchor chair replacing Walter Cronkite. The rise of the cable and the Internet has had a lot to do with the shrinking of the network news audiences, but my next guest says aging viewership is another factor. Matthew Felling is a media director at the Center for Media and Public Affairs.

It's delightful to have you on the program. Thank you for joining us.

MATTHEW FELLING, CENTER FOR MEDIA AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Hey, how are you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Network news audience is down precipitously in the last 20 years and, especially in "CBS News'" case, but I think it applies to all the networks, they are getting much, much older and with apologies to my peer group, Madison Avenue has no time for people my age and beyond. And a lot of network audiences are in their 60s. What are they going to do with this? The demographic that Wall Street wants and that Madison Avenue wants is young people 18-34 and they're nowhere close to a network evening newscast on a regular basis.

FELLING: Yeah, I mean without a doubt. The type of demographic that is watching the nightly newscast on any network nowadays is the same demographic -- is the same kind of demographic that misses the heck out of "Matlock" shows. What the networks are doing right now, is they're kind of questioning their existence.

We saw with Brian Williams taking the helm over at ABC, the way that they decided to adapt their newscast and now with Rather stepping down and CBS being in last place in the ratings, they have nowhere to go but up. And they're going to examine all of their possible options. And I would not be surprised if they started aiming at a lower age demographic. I don't think 18 to 34 is really in the best interest in terms of a target audience, because then we'll end up with John Stewart.

I think that what they need to look at is like the 30-something's and the 40-something's, people who have maybe a -- a kid in their household and they need to also redefine what news is to that audience. Instead of staring at Medicare everyday, let's take a look at urban sprawl or college tuition costs and things like that. They need to really reinvent themselves.

LISOVICZ: OK, well, in the meantime, CBS, Matthew, is putting in Bob Schieffer, who is considered a dean of journalism, and certainly not in the demographic of which the networks are trying to lure. Having said that, though, what do you see in the future? NBC has a vested interest in maintaining the tradition because it's got MSNBC and it -- and so, actually has an outlet for rolling coverage in big news story. But, what about CBS and ABC? Do you continue to see them carrying on with these big budget operations with huge staffs, satellite time, bureaus overseas, and a continuation of that?

FELLING: Well, I want to take one quick step backwards. I mean, we should all be dinosaurs if these network newscasts are dinosaurs. If you take a look at their audience numbers versus just the No. 1 newspaper in America "USA Today." "USA Today" has two million readers, everyday, according to them, and their numbers are juiced worse than Jose Canseco, but CBS -- CBS, Dan Rather, even on his worst night, you know, the failing Dan rather had seven million people, three times of that of "USA Today" with ABC and NBC having 10 million people per night. So it's not as if people these people are dead in the water. They are losing a couple of miles off of their fastball and we have to acknowledge that.

CBS, I would -- I mean, there's a lot of people out there with suggestions for CBS, as to where they go from here. I think that CBS, what they need to do, without a doubt, is put the newspaper in the trash. All these network newscasts, the dirty little secret is the crib notes for the nightly newscast is the morning paper. I don't care if it's the "New York Times" or the "Wall Street Journal" or the "Washington Post," get rid of the newspaper because your viewers already read it that morning. What they need to do is they need to put reporters in the field, bring the viewers news from that day. And that respect will bring in an audience onto themselves. Do they put in somebody younger than Bob Schieffer, god we have to hope so, and there's different options with regards to that.

I would suggest sort of a meta news team to bridge that gap visually. I think they should have -- actually have co-hosts, an older, wiser icon. Ted Koppel isn't really getting a whole lot of appreciation over at ABC, bring him in to co-host maybe, with maybe a younger, smarter person, like an Anderson Cooper.

SERWER: But, let me ask you, just to interrupt you here, Matthew, and I apologize for that. I mean, the whole timeslot is a real disaster, too. The 6:30, I mean, no one sits down and watches TV at 6:30 anymore. And you know the affiliates don't like that national broadcast anymore. I mean, I would submit that the whole model, you talked about seven million, 10 million, but you know it's going to be less five years from now, unless they do something radical.

First of all, I don't think they have the fortitude to make it like MTV with fast editing and more entertainment, which I think they have to do. And second of all, I just think the timeslot's wrong. I think it's going to be going, going, gone.

FELLING: Well, I think that in today's news environment, yes, we have the Internet, yes we have the cable newscasts, but a lot of those outlets are driven by opinion and driven by context. We still need just the basic four food groups of the news and the morning newspaper and we need its equivalent in the night with the network newscast.

I don't disagree with you about the time. I think that what -- they should push it to maybe 7:00 or 7:30 in order to let their audience get home and get settled and then give it to them and stop dictating their schedule to them. I would submit that they have a live broadcast every night at 7:00, and if they really wanted to rip it up out of the ground and reinvent themselves, I would suggest they have a localized national newscast with a bureau in New York, a bureau in Chicago, one in Denver, one in L.A. and one unique newscast for each time zone, because a lot of the stuff that makes news in New York City doesn't trickle all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

CAFFERTY: Let me ask you a question. We tape IN THE MONEY on Friday. On Friday morning, a gunman in an Atlanta courthouse, shot and killed a judge, wounded two deputies and a court clerk. The cable news networks, including this one and FOX and MSNBC went on air with wall to wall coverage, as well they should, it's a very exciting, dramatic story. The guy made a getaway; you've got a carjacking, on and on and on. The network evening broadcast, on Friday, and we're taping this Friday morning, so I haven't seen them yet. I guarantee you will do this story. The public will be more than aware of the shooting in the Atlanta courthouse because of the deluge of the impact of the story by the cable networks all day long and it's on the Internet, all day long. How do you compete with something like that?

FELLING: I think that, I mean, the news from Atlanta, and yes we're taping it right now, the news from Atlanta just isn't national news of importance. We saw last week on the day where we had the 1,500th U.S. soldier die in Iraq, the news was dominated by Martha Stewart, Michael Jackson, a big huge lobster being caught and sent to a zoo. CAFFERTY: That's a valid point, but the murder of a second judge in a two-week period in this country I would suggest is of national importance. Maybe I'm wrong. They killed one in Chicago, now they've killed one in Atlanta.

SERWER: They killed the family, Jack.

CAFFERTY: The family of a judge in Chicago. I mean, I would guess that -- I guarantee you it will be given some play on the national newscast.

FELLING: Yes, but I don't think we're going to let a car chase or something like that dominate all 30 minutes of the nightly network news. I think they'll mention it and they'll give it maybe one, two minutes as also as part of a trend piece and it is a worrisome trend, but I don't think that they're going to give it the whole half hour which is what the cable newscast will do today.

SERWER: All right, we're going to have to leave it at that. Obviously to be continued. Matthew Felling, media direction, Center for Media and Public Affairs. Thank you for coming on the program.

FELLING: Have a great one.

SERWER: Coming up after the break:

Under your thumb: Sony's new boss wants to come up with the next gadget you won't want to put down. See if Wall Street thinks Howard Stringer can pull it off.

Plus, the verbal equivalent of a secret handshake: The jargon they use in business may feel important, but it sounds stupid. Meet someone who's helping people in suits break the habit.

And business history from the guy who helped write it: As CNN's Myron Kandel comes on retirement, we'll get his perspective on journalism today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LISOVICZ: Now, let's take a look at the week's top stories in our "Money Minute." Oil prices flirted with record highs mid-week exceeding $55 a barrel before falling back again. All this volatility has some analysts predicting there could be a surge to $70 per barrel by year's end.

A busy week on Capitol Hill, the Senate voted to keep the minimum wage at $5.15. That's right where it's been since 1996. It also passed legislation that may make it harder for Americans to declare bankruptcy, especially for people with credit card debt. That bill is expected to go before the House next month.

Global sales of brand-name prescription drugs topped $500 billion last year. A new report by DataTracker shows drug companies are losing market share to generics to countries like the U.S., but are more than make up for that in new sales to developing countries. SERWER: Another big story this week was Sony's decision to go with a non-Japanese CEO. Welsh-born Sir Howard Stringer will take over the technology giant, this summer. Stringer is promising to make the company cool again. Hasn't been that cool to be a Sony shareholder over the last five years. Look at that. As share prices have never recovered from the overall market downturn in 2000, but critics say the real problem with Sony is that it seems to be outdated and has already been surpassed by companies in other Asian countries. That makes Sony our "Stock of the Week."

And you know what guys? A lot of people don't realize it but Sony was a bubble stock. I mean, this stock was way over $100 in 2000, and it's now 40 bucks. And the problem, as I was just saying there, hardware made by Korean company like Samsung, Lucky G, L Lucky Group (PH), and they really have failed miserably. You know, they used to make the Walkman, the iPod has surpassed them. The PlayStations' their only hit. TVs are OK, but basically really have not gotten the job done there, at all.

CAFFERTY: As a practical -- pardon me, as a practical matter though, how important is it that they've named an outsider, like Stringer, in the top job. In Japan, I would assume that is hugely symbolic. But Sony, as a practical matter, has been an international company for a couple of decades, now. So what's the big deal?

SERWER: It's a global company and, you know, I think that Stringer has been so good at wooing his Japanese counterparts. You know, he's a very personable guy. You meet the guy, he's more politician. So, I think you're right, Jack. I mean, the business is here, especially the content part of the business, which is movies and music, and he's done a wonderful job as head of that business in North America. I mean with "Spiderman" right?

LISOVICZ: Right, And well, Carlos Ghosn, I believe is the correct pronunciation, of Nissan, credited with saving the company. So, it's not first time that a big Japanese company went outside of the country. But having said that, you're right Jack, two-thirds of the company's employees are not Japanese.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

LISOVICZ: So, Howard Stringer doesn't speak Japanese, he's not going to live in Japan. He's going to continue to live here in New York, his family lives in London. He is considered a diplomat.

SERWER: He's going to live on an airplane.

LISOVICZ: That's true. That's true. And he -- you know, he's got a tough challenge because you've got -- in music you've got apple. They just really haven't had any hot, hot product coming out.

SERWER: Oh, they failed in that business.

CAFFERTY: The real question is whether it's going to be tougher to be the CEO of Sony then it was to be Dan Rather's boss.

SERWER: Yeah, well that's what he was.

CAFFERTY: Howard Stringer used to be Dan Rather's boss.

SERWER: He was, and you know, it's interesting too, because his real challenge, Jack, is going to be to sort of integrate these businesses and that's ridiculous -- the synergy integrating content with hardware. I mean, let's face it, it will not work. You don't need to buy a cow to get milk.

CAFFERTY: There you go.

SERWER: You know, you can buy the milk in the store. They're trying to put these things together. I think it's kind of hopeless. On the other hand, you know, you're supposed to buy stocks when they're down. And this stock, it was $23 two years ago, that's when you really should have bought it, but still you know, you might want think about it.

CAFFERTY: What is it now?

SERWER: It's about 40.

CAFFERTY: Oh, OK.

SERWER: So, it's way down from when it was way over $100. This is a guy who may be able to come in and do some stuff.

LISOVICZ: But you don't know where it's going, So...

SERWER: Well, you hope it's going up if you buy it.

CAFFERTY: All right.

SERWER: All right. Coming up on IN THE MONEY:

They don't teach this stuff at Berlitz: Business speak can get so weird, that there's actually a software to turn it into English. Find out how to do that without a computer.

Also ahead, vintage mike: Don't miss a chance to catch CNN's veteran financial journalist, Myron Kandel as he gets ready to put down his recorder's notebook.

And don't try this at work: An office romance cost the boss at Boeing his job this week. We'll look at whether it is worth the risk for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN ANCHOR, IN THE MONEY: Hello everyone. I'm Rudi Bakhtiar here at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Now in the news, Pope John Paul II is back at the Vatican. He will continue recuperating from breathing problems and concentrate on his plans for holy week, which begins next Sunday. The pontiff left the hospital earlier today blessing and waving to bystanders along the way.

Some survivors of December tsunami disaster have filed suit against the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the Thai government. They claim the agencies do not do enough to warn and protect people from the deadly flood. At least 166,000 people in 11 countries lost their lives.

And in Atlanta, the man suspected of killing four people in a weekend crime spree could face a federal judge as early as tomorrow. Brian Nichols remains in federal custody. His alleged victims include a county judge and a U.S. immigration and customs enforcement agent.

More news coming up for you at the top of the hour. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

ANDREW SERWER, CNN ANCHOR, IN THE MONEY: If you're an enterprise oriented worker who can think out of the box, executive mission critical responsibilities and engage in meaningful dialogue and debate, oh my god, my next guest has the job for you. It's called "Cut the Bull." Brian Fugere is co-author of "Why Business People Speak Like Idiots." He joins us now with some tips on talking like real people in the work place.

Brian, I think this is a riot but it's also a real issue because people do have this tendency to use jargon at this particular point in time which is why we've engaged your presence upon this particular -- I'm kidding?

CAFFERTY: That's enough!

SERWER: OK, anyway, it is true. Why do business people talk way?

BRIAN FUGERE, AUTHOR: There is a lot of reasons but I think a lot of it is related to fear. They're afraid of saying something that's going to come back and bite them in the rear end.

SERWER: Bite them in the butt, you can say it!

FUGERE: Exactly. Bite them in the butt. We can probably say something else too.

SERWER: Yes.

FUGERE: But there is a great deal of fear to commit and there is fear of being exposed for not really knowing what they're talking about and there is also a lot of habit when people enter companies these days. They look to the top. The fish rots from the head and they see what is happening at the top of the company. And they say I guess that's the way I need to speak if I have to get ahead.

LISCOVICZ: You know I have to say that I am guilty of not being able to read a lot of the quarterly earnings in particular maybe because they have to go through so many lawyers. So let's initiate the project action plan, or in other words, let's get started. When did this happen? Did it just develop slowly? Or is it something that as companies became much bigger, they started to talk to people like us that they decided to try to confuse us?

FUGERE: Well, it's been happening for a long time. One of the things that has made that more obvious to all of us is technology. We have so much information available at our fingertips, that when -- you can't stand up at the podium and throw rose petals out and expect everything to be hunkie dorie when it is not, because people know better.

They know when there is bull. Bull detectors are on high alert these days because they have access to so much information. It has also gotten a little bit worse because we have this great tide of political correctness. We're also in a very litigious world. We're afraid saying anything. By the time it goes through the attorneys, by the time it goes through the H.R. people, by the time it goes through the P.R. flaks, you have nothing left to say. So a combination of technology and litigation and political correctness is all conspired to make it worse than it's ever been before.

CAFFERTY: So what are you going to do about it?

FUGERE: Well, we believe there are a number of traps. Sort of you to have your fuss buster on to avoid the traps. Once you know where they are, you can avoid them. The first trap is obscurity, using fifty cent words to make a five cent point. People like straight talkers. You like to buy from straight talkers. You like to go to doctors who are straight talking. You like to do business with straight talkers, if you just realize that it's obnoxious and rude to be obscure you'll start to be sensitized to it. And start to avoid that.

CAFFERTY: But you just said there are disincentives built into this society to speaking plain English that we're litigious, we're politically correct. The government does this stuff. It's not just private business. Have you ever tried to read a government litigation about anything? It is like reading a Chinese take out menu in Beijing. So there is really no incentive for people to cast the caution to the wind and stand up there like John Wayne and tell it like it is. You'll get fired, you'll get sued, you'll get something.

FUGERE: Certainly, you have to be careful and you have to do this right but let's look at leaders who have built their reputation and their careers on straight talk. Look at people like Jack Welch at GE. Look at people like Jeff Bezos at Amazon or Warren Buffett at Berkshire Hathaway. These are people who are straight talking, clear speaking executives who have gotten ahead. And we think because there's so little straight talk out there and again you have to be careful. You can't go overboard on this but because there is so little straight talk out there, there is an opportunity for business people at every level to really make progress in their career just by talking straight.

SERWER: Brian, I think it's actually getting better. I mean Jason Giam the other day tried to give a press conference. Where he tried to apologize for something everyone knew was serious. He never actually said it -- I apologize for a situation that has occurred. It is a situation that I have perhaps been involved in this situation. And the next day the papers just said you are full of B.S. So do you have some examples by the way of some of this doublespeak that's kind of interesting?

FUGERE: Well in business it's full of it. But, so, for example, you might see something like re-purpose intellectual assets.

SERWER: What does that mean?

FUGERE: Use what we've learned.

SERWER: Oh. I thought it was, you're fired.

FUGERE: Or you might see something like leverage enterprise core competencies to maximize shareholder value.

SERWER: What does that mean you're fired? I keep thinking I'm going to get fired.

FUGERE: Taking advantage of your strengths.

No, there is really a great opportunity for people here. On the converse, on the opposite side, we looked at scandal plagued companies and we looked at the letters to shareholders and communication to shareholders like people like Ebbers and people like Scrushy (ph) and Skilling and Lay and it is full of doublespeak and gibberish.

So not only is there an opportunity to get ahead but we see when you look at companies and in fact if you're an investor, companies that speak this way, where straight talk is not a hallmark of what they do, it's a reason to be worried about the company.

LISCOVICZ: Well you know Brian, I interviewed Bill Gates last week. He's known to be very competitive as well as of course a scientist. I asked him the simple question is your wife better at board games than you? And he said, data would suggest it.

SERWER: Yes Bill.

LISCOVICZ: But then he specified that it was only a jigsaw and not a crossword. Anyway, I think there is a lot of work yet to be done and Brian you are out there trying to get us back to plain speaking English so everyone would understand what we're saying. Brian Fugere, co-author "Why Business People Speak Like Idots: A Bullfighter's Guide." Thanks for joining us.

FUGERE: Thanks for having me.

LISCOVICZ: There is much more to come here on IN THE MONEY.

Up next, Mike's greatest hits. Myron Kandel has been covering business since the days when CEOs actually got some respect. Imagine that, as he gets set to retire. Join him for a look back.

And gross assets. Learn how to make it a date she won't forget as we show you our fun site of the week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LISCOVICZ: There was fan fare this week about a TV newsman's retirement but there was just one problem, they were focusing on the wrong TV news man. The real giant of the airwaves who's hanging up his microphone is our very own Myron Kandel who helped bring business journalism to television. And Myron joins us now to talk about the highlights of a great career and a great mentor, I might add. You know you were able to cover journalism all these years and mentor just a whole new generation of business journalists.

Myron, let's just start at the beginning at the World Trade Center, the New York Bureau for CNN was actually the World Trade Center in a fishbowl type of environment.

MYRON KANDEL, CNN BUSINESS NEWS: That's right and it was 25 years ago that I joined. I joined in January 1980. We went on the air in June of '80. And we pioneered in covering business news on television. Because there had not been a network news television show before us. There was "Wall Street Week" but that's an investment show and we did it and people were very skeptical. How can do you a half hour of business news.

LISCOVICZ: How boring.

KANDEL: Yes you don't have the fires and riots and whatever. And then they would say, the only thing you have are talking heads. And I think we, and others, have proved that talking heads are OK if they say something while they're talking and now of course CNN, this program and others, does have a lot of other things we have graphics and we have people in the field and whatever. In the beginning, we didn't have any of that.

SERWER: Myron, what are some of the great stories that you covered over the past two and a half decades? What are some of your favorites?

KANDEL: Well, I wouldn't call them my favorite but I think the most important story was the crash of October, 19th, 1987 when the Dow fell more than 900 points one day. About 22 percent and we covered that story around the clock. It was the first time that a financial news story. We started on Wall Street. We continued that evening, then we picked up from Tokyo and Australia and then Europe when the trading started there and then again in the morning when trading began in New York.

So we really, people said oh, you really came of age then. But we had been doing it for seven years before that. So we were ready to do it and we had "Money Line with Lou Dobbs" and a lot of other good people who have come and some of them gone over the years since. But we had scandals on Wall Street. Remember Boesky, Dennis Levine.

LISCOVICZ: Mike Milken.

KANDEL: Mike Milken, now, 20 years later, we have Jack Grubman and the Wall Street research scandals. We had the corporate scandals. But another thing that we had at the beginning, remember there was a crisis in Social Security and President Reagan appointed a commission headed by Alan Greenspan, right?

SERWER: Yes.

KANDEL: And they solved the Social Security problem and what do we have now, another Social Security.

CAFFERTY: You hired Lou Dobbs to work at this network. How did that come about?

KANDEL: Well, we found Lou in Seattle. He was a bright young guy who'd done some business reporting and we brought him here. There were four of us at the very beginning. Lou, Stuart Varney, myself, and a producer. And we had, as a contributing columnist, Dan Dorschman who went on to do other good things. And it was really interesting, we did this whole program with four of us, full-time people.

CAFFERTY: At the risk of embarrassing you and I don't mean do that. I want to tell a quick Myron Kandel story. And I told this on "American Morning." I joined CNN as a member of the CNNfn network. The financial network which is no more now. They shut it down here a while ago. About 7 1/2 years ago, absolutely green to the place. Didn't know anybody in the build building except Lou who I had met once before.

And I'm wandering around the newsroom trying to figure out what I'm suppose to be doing and this gentleman went out of his way to help me, to show me the ropes, to be nice to me, to teach me. And a lot of people come and go in this business and the legacy of most of them is they covered this story, they did that scoop, they were on this live remote. This is a nice man and there are very few who pass through 25 years in this business that you can say that about.

So regardless of all of your accomplishments in the industry in terms of television, your legacy of being a nice guy is the thing that I would be most proud of and I thank you publicly of all the kindness as you showed me when I was starting here.

KANDEL: Well that's so nice, Jack, and I really appreciate that. I knew were a pro. The key is that those of us who are professional journalists and you and I have spent our whole adult careers doing that you appreciate professionalism and even though you were relevantly new to business news you were a television pro an a news pro and I appreciated that. And I was glad to help you, but in my new life, I'm going to write a couple of books and one of those books is titled "Nice Guys Can Finish First." And it's my contention that you don't have to be an S.O.B. to succeed.

SERWER: Here, here.

LISCOVICZ: And Myron Kandel is a classic example of that, a former president for the New York Financial Writers Assn, former president of the Society of Financial Journalists. And the man responsible for bringing me back to CNN. We look forward of sharing the hallway together because you're going to work, continue to work at CNN, write your books.

KANDEL: You know that's so nice to hear all these good words and I'm still a live.

CAFFERTY: You are on the right side of the dirt as they say.

LISCOVICZ: Clean up your office. Myron Kandel, congratulations on this new chapter in your professional career.

Coming up, heartburns, an office romance cost Harry Stonecipher the top job at Boeing. We'll talk about happens when Cupid gets in the cubicle. And whether it is love or money on your mind, drop us a line. The address is INTHEMONEY@cnn.com.

Spring is in the air. And that means it's time to roll up your sleeves, open a window and shake out those sheets. In this week's "Money and Family," how do to do your spring-cleaning on the cheap.

To make your faucets shine, put a few drops of olive oil on a dry rag. Spray the faucet with club soda and wipe dry.

For windows, mix one cup of vinegar with one cup of water. Spray the mixture on the window and wipe dry with a rag.

To clean floors, mix two cups of vinegar with four cups of hot water, add two drops of tea tree oil. This oil acts as a disinfectant.

For a do-it-yourself air freshener, place your favorite citrus peels in a pot, cover with water and simmer. This will freshen your kitchen and the rest of the house.

Happy cleaning. I'm Susan Lisovicz for "Money & Family."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Every once in a while, top corporate executives are actually made to pay for doing something not so smart. That is what happened to Harry Stonecipher at Boeing. Allen Wastler is here with more on that and of course as always the fun site of the week.

ALLEN WASTLER, MONEY.COM: Yes, that was a big story this week.

CAFFERTY: Huge.

WASTLER: A $38 million fling this guy had. Because that's how much money he had to give up.

SERWER: Maybe it was worth it, I don't know.

WASTLER: If you hadn't heard the story. Essentially the board found out that Mr. Stonecipher was having a relationship with a female executive in the company. Consensual, you know nothing specifically in the rules about that. However, Mr. Stonecipher was brought in to help the company get in on an ethical track and no more wrong doings or shenanigans around here folks. So when you are there preaching ethics on the one hand and walking the straight narrow and by the way I am seeing the young lady -- yes, it will not work.

CAFFERTY: As of the taping of our show. She is still on the payroll, right?

WASTLER: That's right. The board said you really need to resign. He said, OK, fine I resign. He has to give up some bonus payments that amounts to $38 million. So now two lessons you can draw here, one Wall Street there is a little bit of trepidation because Mr. Stonecipher did manage to put the company back on a good financial commercial track. The stock went up 54 percent and so now all of a sudden that CEO is gone. There's a little, which way is the company going to go now? Second thing, beware, e-mail because apparently the way the board found out is they got an anonymous tip from somebody who had seen a graphic e-mail message from Mr. Stonecipher.

CAFFERTY: Like the chart that goes from low to high graphic?

WASTLER: Yes, it must mean!

CAFFERTY: What's the fun site of the week?

SERWER: It's baby I want you to ride in my airplane.

WASTLER: We are talking about male/female relationships and what not. You know how do you impress a date? OK, Z. Frank one our faze in the fun site area. Has a few pointers, don't check out the waitress. That's bad.

LISCOVICZ: We don't like rubber-neckers.

WASTLER: OK. Another one is if you will have food there and stuff, you may want to think about romantic ways to use the food. Let's see that one.

CAFFERTY: Oh my gosh.

WASTLER: Ketch-up.

SERWER: What do you think, Susan? Is that a turn-on for you?

LISCOVICZ: No, not with ketch-up.

SERWER: We're just a bunch of guys here. So what do we not know.

CAFFERTY: I'm almost afraid to ask what some of the other examples might be.

WASTLER: You can find the address for the fun site on our show page and we will take you right there.

CAFFERTY: There you go, thanks Allen.

WASTLER: Sure thing.

CAFFERTY: Coming up next on IN THE MONEY time to hear from you as we read some of your e-mails from the past week. You can send us an e-mail right now if you're so inclined. We are at INTHEMONEY@cnn.com. Back in a flash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Now it's time to read your answers to our question of the week about whether President Bush and the Republicans should drop their campaign to change their Social Security?

Robert from New Jersey wrote this, "Yes, simply because it won't sell & because the more immediate problem the government should be addressing is Medicare."

Richard from Indiana wrote, "I think the president should fight on. I want control of my own money for my retirement. I think those who oppose privatization are the ones who want to control others by controlling their hare earned money."

And Bryon checked in with this, "If President Bush wants to fix Social Security, he should just take away the cushy pension & benefits Congress gets & replace them with Social Security & Medicaid. If he did that, we'd see changes for the better immediately."

Time now for next week's e-mail question of the week, which is this. Which one of your expenses has increased the most over the past year? Send your answers to INTHEMONEY@cnn.com. And you should visit our show page at MONEY.com/in the money which is where you will find the address for the fun site of the week.

Thanks for joining us for this edition of IN THE MONEY. My thanks to CNN correspondent Susan Liscovicz. "Fortune" magazine editor-at- large Andy Serwer and MONEY.com managing editor Allen Wastler. Join us next week Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00. Or you can watch Andy and me all week long on "American Morning." We get under way at 7:00 Eastern in the a.m. Until the next time thanks for watching.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 13, 2005 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: From New York City, America's financial capital. This is IN THE MONEY.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JACK CAFFERTY, HOST: Welcome to IN THE MONEY. I'm Jack Cafferty. Coming up on today's program:

That's one killer resume: Counterintelligence officials are wondering if al-Qaeda's pals are looking for jobs inside of U.S. spy agencies. How scary is that? We'll see how real the threat is.

Plus network news from B.C. to A.D. That would be before cable to after Dan. We'll look at whether the networks are bringing you a classic or a dinosaur.

And watch your mouth: Business jargon can make corporate people sound like corporate tools, or corporate fools. Listen to an author who's out to get them to speak English that we can all understand, yet again.

Joining me today, a couple of IN THE MONEY veterans, CNN correspondent Susan Lisovicz, "Fortune" magazine editor-at-large Andy Serwer.

This is probably not typical fare for a business-oriented program, but it's worth noting that last Friday morning, a guy on trial for rape got a hold of a deputy's gun on the eighth floor of the courthouse in Atlanta Georgia, killed a judge, shot up the place, wounding several other people. This comes on the heels of the family of a judge in Chicago being murdered. It reminds us, I guess, of the vulnerability of being a judge, particularly on violent criminal trials, but more than that I think it raises, I think, some questions about security particularly inside of a courthouse where these trials go on day after day after day. This occurred on the eighth floor and the guy got away, at least the time we taped this program, he was on the loose.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Well, it's really horrifying stuff. I mean, these judges are the very backbone of our society. There is security in courthouses, obviously, in terms of metal detectors and security personnel with guns. Unfortunately that was a situation which turned upon the judge himself. But, for the most part, you know, judges have listed phone numbers, very often. Their kids go to normal schools, they don't have body guards. And if we start to have a society where they're going to need bodyguards, then that is really bad news for all of us, I think.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right and the -- what should, of course, be underscored by this is that judges make tough decisions. They send people away. People get disgruntled, people who already have a violent tendency, and these judges make these decisions and you do not want these judges to live in fear that not only could they be harmed by their decisions, but their family and that was the case in Chicago.

SERWER: Well, that reminds me of Iraq, where we've seen judges assassinated and they're targets and we think, oh my god, what an uncivilized place and how could that happen? And then you look -- look at ourselves. Take a look at ourselves, it's really just terrible.

CAFFERTY: Sure, and not to minimize them at all, but retribution against police, lawyers, judges -- as old, I guess, as the criminal element in this country. The fact that two incidents of this violent nature happened so close together brings our attention right to it and causes us all to raise our eyebrows a little bit.

All right, on to other things. Here's a first, the words "human resources" and "exciting" in the same sentence. As in "things may be getting exciting for the human resources people of the CIA." Seriously, one of the agency's counterintelligence officials is raising the possibility that al-Qaeda's friends and sympathizers might be looking for jobs within that U.S. spy service. It's not clear whether anyone's been assigned to try it or not, but other counterintelligence pros are not dismissing this idea as preposterous as it seems.

To help us figure out how big a deal it really is, we're joined, from Washington now, by Bob Drogin, who's the national security correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times."

Bob, this seems almost preposterous that someone sympathetic to or affiliated with somebody like al-Qaeda could actually be employed in our most sensitive national security agency, the CIA. Is it even possible? Obviously somebody thinks it is, but under what conditions could something like this happen?

BOB DROGIN, "L.A. TIMES": Well, it's very possible because the people that they're looking for, precisely, are the kinds of people that would have access to al-Qaeda. They're specifically trying to hire people who have language skills, who can blend into foreign cultures, who would not be suspicious on the streets of whatever capital's you're trying to recruit agents who can get you close inside the leadership. The problem for them is the -- it's precisely those kinds of people who are the hardest for them to do background checks on. People who have been -- you know in street demonstrations or have lots of foreign relatives, or people who've grown up overseas. These are not the kind of college educated spies that certainly the CIA was using 30 years ago, 20 years ago. So it is very possible. LISOVICZ: Bob, you know, it's really one of these catch-22s, because the wake of 9-20 -- not September 11, we had such a failure of intelligence, so now there's this real effort to get people on the ground, as you said, Arabic-speaking people who may not be American- born. But having said that, there are some things we could do in the United States, like our privacy laws, for instance, prevent all of the security agencies, the intelligence agencies, from talking to one another, is that correct.

DROGIN: Well, there are some limitations. I'm not sure if it prevents them all from talking to one another, but it's not just -- remember this is not just about the CIA versus the NSA. It's about the Defense Department and it's about defense contractors, who quite frankly, -- and subcontractors, who do a great deal of the classified work on the systems. So, it is -- it's a much broader thing than just the guy who gets turned down at the CIA and then crosses the street and tries to get a job at the NRO or the NSA.

SERWER: Yeah Bob, I am shaking my head a little bit at this one, because, you know, having spent a lot of time in Washington, especially growing up, you know, when I hear about the CIA having problems with counterintelligence, I'm thinking back to James Jesus Angleton and the descent into paranoia that the CIA went to in those previous decades when he headed up counterintelligence, basically crippled that agency for decades. Are we starting to see some of that here?

DROGIN: Well, it's a possibility. You know, in my story, I quoted Paul Redmond who's, you know, a legendary spy catcher out at the CIA and he said it, you know, frankly if you do this long enough, you go crazy. You think everyone is a spy.

And you look at the most recent cases which, frankly, were down in Guantanamo Bay, where there were allegations and arrests on a supposed Syrian spy ring. Three men, including a chaplain, and it all blew up in their face. I mean, it really is a problem. How far do you go to chase these people?

You have to be, obviously, very vigilant and very prudent, and yet you see shadows inside the shadows. It's a real problem for them.

CAFFERTY: You can characterize the way things are being done right now to try to deal with what is either a real or a perceived threat? How is the agency going about trying to prevent this kind of thing?

DROGIN: Well, it's not just the CIA. Remember, there are 15 intelligence agencies and they're all under tremendous pressure to hire right now. They are all going through the largest hiring spree since the height of the Cold War. So they are, at the same time they are reaching out, they are in competition, in some cases, for the same people.

I mean, if you have a security clearance and you are fluent in a -- one of the target languages, I mean, you can sort of name your own price out there, right now. So it's a real -- it's a competition on one level and yet -- and because they are trying to get so many people into the system, they've had to subcontract out the background checks and I think that's also part of the problem, here.

CAFFERTY: Been talking to Bob Drogin who's the national security correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times."

Bob, thanks for being on IN THE MONEY.

When we continue, yesterday's news and what it means for tomorrow. As Dan Rather gets out of the anchor chair, we'll look at whether network news has the chops to survive.

Plus, Rather's old boss says he's the tips for the future: Gadgets. See how Wall Street likes Howard Stringer as the new head of Sony.

And how to kill a romance in a single meal: You don't want to know but our "Fun Site of the Week" is going to show you anyway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN RATHER, FMR. CBS ANCHOR: We've shared a lot in the 24 years we've been meeting here each evening and before I say goodnight, this night, I need it say thank you. Thank you to the thousands of wonderful professionals at CBS News, past and present, with whom it's been my honor to work over these years. And a deeply-felt thanks to all of you who have let us into your homes night after night. It has been a privilege and one never taken lightly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: Dan Rather, winding up his career after 24 years as the anchor of the CBS "Evening News" this week, thanking his viewing audience and his colleagues at "CBS News." It's a viewing audience that is much smaller today than it was 24 years ago when Rather stepped into the anchor chair replacing Walter Cronkite. The rise of the cable and the Internet has had a lot to do with the shrinking of the network news audiences, but my next guest says aging viewership is another factor. Matthew Felling is a media director at the Center for Media and Public Affairs.

It's delightful to have you on the program. Thank you for joining us.

MATTHEW FELLING, CENTER FOR MEDIA AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Hey, how are you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Network news audience is down precipitously in the last 20 years and, especially in "CBS News'" case, but I think it applies to all the networks, they are getting much, much older and with apologies to my peer group, Madison Avenue has no time for people my age and beyond. And a lot of network audiences are in their 60s. What are they going to do with this? The demographic that Wall Street wants and that Madison Avenue wants is young people 18-34 and they're nowhere close to a network evening newscast on a regular basis.

FELLING: Yeah, I mean without a doubt. The type of demographic that is watching the nightly newscast on any network nowadays is the same demographic -- is the same kind of demographic that misses the heck out of "Matlock" shows. What the networks are doing right now, is they're kind of questioning their existence.

We saw with Brian Williams taking the helm over at ABC, the way that they decided to adapt their newscast and now with Rather stepping down and CBS being in last place in the ratings, they have nowhere to go but up. And they're going to examine all of their possible options. And I would not be surprised if they started aiming at a lower age demographic. I don't think 18 to 34 is really in the best interest in terms of a target audience, because then we'll end up with John Stewart.

I think that what they need to look at is like the 30-something's and the 40-something's, people who have maybe a -- a kid in their household and they need to also redefine what news is to that audience. Instead of staring at Medicare everyday, let's take a look at urban sprawl or college tuition costs and things like that. They need to really reinvent themselves.

LISOVICZ: OK, well, in the meantime, CBS, Matthew, is putting in Bob Schieffer, who is considered a dean of journalism, and certainly not in the demographic of which the networks are trying to lure. Having said that, though, what do you see in the future? NBC has a vested interest in maintaining the tradition because it's got MSNBC and it -- and so, actually has an outlet for rolling coverage in big news story. But, what about CBS and ABC? Do you continue to see them carrying on with these big budget operations with huge staffs, satellite time, bureaus overseas, and a continuation of that?

FELLING: Well, I want to take one quick step backwards. I mean, we should all be dinosaurs if these network newscasts are dinosaurs. If you take a look at their audience numbers versus just the No. 1 newspaper in America "USA Today." "USA Today" has two million readers, everyday, according to them, and their numbers are juiced worse than Jose Canseco, but CBS -- CBS, Dan Rather, even on his worst night, you know, the failing Dan rather had seven million people, three times of that of "USA Today" with ABC and NBC having 10 million people per night. So it's not as if people these people are dead in the water. They are losing a couple of miles off of their fastball and we have to acknowledge that.

CBS, I would -- I mean, there's a lot of people out there with suggestions for CBS, as to where they go from here. I think that CBS, what they need to do, without a doubt, is put the newspaper in the trash. All these network newscasts, the dirty little secret is the crib notes for the nightly newscast is the morning paper. I don't care if it's the "New York Times" or the "Wall Street Journal" or the "Washington Post," get rid of the newspaper because your viewers already read it that morning. What they need to do is they need to put reporters in the field, bring the viewers news from that day. And that respect will bring in an audience onto themselves. Do they put in somebody younger than Bob Schieffer, god we have to hope so, and there's different options with regards to that.

I would suggest sort of a meta news team to bridge that gap visually. I think they should have -- actually have co-hosts, an older, wiser icon. Ted Koppel isn't really getting a whole lot of appreciation over at ABC, bring him in to co-host maybe, with maybe a younger, smarter person, like an Anderson Cooper.

SERWER: But, let me ask you, just to interrupt you here, Matthew, and I apologize for that. I mean, the whole timeslot is a real disaster, too. The 6:30, I mean, no one sits down and watches TV at 6:30 anymore. And you know the affiliates don't like that national broadcast anymore. I mean, I would submit that the whole model, you talked about seven million, 10 million, but you know it's going to be less five years from now, unless they do something radical.

First of all, I don't think they have the fortitude to make it like MTV with fast editing and more entertainment, which I think they have to do. And second of all, I just think the timeslot's wrong. I think it's going to be going, going, gone.

FELLING: Well, I think that in today's news environment, yes, we have the Internet, yes we have the cable newscasts, but a lot of those outlets are driven by opinion and driven by context. We still need just the basic four food groups of the news and the morning newspaper and we need its equivalent in the night with the network newscast.

I don't disagree with you about the time. I think that what -- they should push it to maybe 7:00 or 7:30 in order to let their audience get home and get settled and then give it to them and stop dictating their schedule to them. I would submit that they have a live broadcast every night at 7:00, and if they really wanted to rip it up out of the ground and reinvent themselves, I would suggest they have a localized national newscast with a bureau in New York, a bureau in Chicago, one in Denver, one in L.A. and one unique newscast for each time zone, because a lot of the stuff that makes news in New York City doesn't trickle all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

CAFFERTY: Let me ask you a question. We tape IN THE MONEY on Friday. On Friday morning, a gunman in an Atlanta courthouse, shot and killed a judge, wounded two deputies and a court clerk. The cable news networks, including this one and FOX and MSNBC went on air with wall to wall coverage, as well they should, it's a very exciting, dramatic story. The guy made a getaway; you've got a carjacking, on and on and on. The network evening broadcast, on Friday, and we're taping this Friday morning, so I haven't seen them yet. I guarantee you will do this story. The public will be more than aware of the shooting in the Atlanta courthouse because of the deluge of the impact of the story by the cable networks all day long and it's on the Internet, all day long. How do you compete with something like that?

FELLING: I think that, I mean, the news from Atlanta, and yes we're taping it right now, the news from Atlanta just isn't national news of importance. We saw last week on the day where we had the 1,500th U.S. soldier die in Iraq, the news was dominated by Martha Stewart, Michael Jackson, a big huge lobster being caught and sent to a zoo. CAFFERTY: That's a valid point, but the murder of a second judge in a two-week period in this country I would suggest is of national importance. Maybe I'm wrong. They killed one in Chicago, now they've killed one in Atlanta.

SERWER: They killed the family, Jack.

CAFFERTY: The family of a judge in Chicago. I mean, I would guess that -- I guarantee you it will be given some play on the national newscast.

FELLING: Yes, but I don't think we're going to let a car chase or something like that dominate all 30 minutes of the nightly network news. I think they'll mention it and they'll give it maybe one, two minutes as also as part of a trend piece and it is a worrisome trend, but I don't think that they're going to give it the whole half hour which is what the cable newscast will do today.

SERWER: All right, we're going to have to leave it at that. Obviously to be continued. Matthew Felling, media direction, Center for Media and Public Affairs. Thank you for coming on the program.

FELLING: Have a great one.

SERWER: Coming up after the break:

Under your thumb: Sony's new boss wants to come up with the next gadget you won't want to put down. See if Wall Street thinks Howard Stringer can pull it off.

Plus, the verbal equivalent of a secret handshake: The jargon they use in business may feel important, but it sounds stupid. Meet someone who's helping people in suits break the habit.

And business history from the guy who helped write it: As CNN's Myron Kandel comes on retirement, we'll get his perspective on journalism today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LISOVICZ: Now, let's take a look at the week's top stories in our "Money Minute." Oil prices flirted with record highs mid-week exceeding $55 a barrel before falling back again. All this volatility has some analysts predicting there could be a surge to $70 per barrel by year's end.

A busy week on Capitol Hill, the Senate voted to keep the minimum wage at $5.15. That's right where it's been since 1996. It also passed legislation that may make it harder for Americans to declare bankruptcy, especially for people with credit card debt. That bill is expected to go before the House next month.

Global sales of brand-name prescription drugs topped $500 billion last year. A new report by DataTracker shows drug companies are losing market share to generics to countries like the U.S., but are more than make up for that in new sales to developing countries. SERWER: Another big story this week was Sony's decision to go with a non-Japanese CEO. Welsh-born Sir Howard Stringer will take over the technology giant, this summer. Stringer is promising to make the company cool again. Hasn't been that cool to be a Sony shareholder over the last five years. Look at that. As share prices have never recovered from the overall market downturn in 2000, but critics say the real problem with Sony is that it seems to be outdated and has already been surpassed by companies in other Asian countries. That makes Sony our "Stock of the Week."

And you know what guys? A lot of people don't realize it but Sony was a bubble stock. I mean, this stock was way over $100 in 2000, and it's now 40 bucks. And the problem, as I was just saying there, hardware made by Korean company like Samsung, Lucky G, L Lucky Group (PH), and they really have failed miserably. You know, they used to make the Walkman, the iPod has surpassed them. The PlayStations' their only hit. TVs are OK, but basically really have not gotten the job done there, at all.

CAFFERTY: As a practical -- pardon me, as a practical matter though, how important is it that they've named an outsider, like Stringer, in the top job. In Japan, I would assume that is hugely symbolic. But Sony, as a practical matter, has been an international company for a couple of decades, now. So what's the big deal?

SERWER: It's a global company and, you know, I think that Stringer has been so good at wooing his Japanese counterparts. You know, he's a very personable guy. You meet the guy, he's more politician. So, I think you're right, Jack. I mean, the business is here, especially the content part of the business, which is movies and music, and he's done a wonderful job as head of that business in North America. I mean with "Spiderman" right?

LISOVICZ: Right, And well, Carlos Ghosn, I believe is the correct pronunciation, of Nissan, credited with saving the company. So, it's not first time that a big Japanese company went outside of the country. But having said that, you're right Jack, two-thirds of the company's employees are not Japanese.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

LISOVICZ: So, Howard Stringer doesn't speak Japanese, he's not going to live in Japan. He's going to continue to live here in New York, his family lives in London. He is considered a diplomat.

SERWER: He's going to live on an airplane.

LISOVICZ: That's true. That's true. And he -- you know, he's got a tough challenge because you've got -- in music you've got apple. They just really haven't had any hot, hot product coming out.

SERWER: Oh, they failed in that business.

CAFFERTY: The real question is whether it's going to be tougher to be the CEO of Sony then it was to be Dan Rather's boss.

SERWER: Yeah, well that's what he was.

CAFFERTY: Howard Stringer used to be Dan Rather's boss.

SERWER: He was, and you know, it's interesting too, because his real challenge, Jack, is going to be to sort of integrate these businesses and that's ridiculous -- the synergy integrating content with hardware. I mean, let's face it, it will not work. You don't need to buy a cow to get milk.

CAFFERTY: There you go.

SERWER: You know, you can buy the milk in the store. They're trying to put these things together. I think it's kind of hopeless. On the other hand, you know, you're supposed to buy stocks when they're down. And this stock, it was $23 two years ago, that's when you really should have bought it, but still you know, you might want think about it.

CAFFERTY: What is it now?

SERWER: It's about 40.

CAFFERTY: Oh, OK.

SERWER: So, it's way down from when it was way over $100. This is a guy who may be able to come in and do some stuff.

LISOVICZ: But you don't know where it's going, So...

SERWER: Well, you hope it's going up if you buy it.

CAFFERTY: All right.

SERWER: All right. Coming up on IN THE MONEY:

They don't teach this stuff at Berlitz: Business speak can get so weird, that there's actually a software to turn it into English. Find out how to do that without a computer.

Also ahead, vintage mike: Don't miss a chance to catch CNN's veteran financial journalist, Myron Kandel as he gets ready to put down his recorder's notebook.

And don't try this at work: An office romance cost the boss at Boeing his job this week. We'll look at whether it is worth the risk for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN ANCHOR, IN THE MONEY: Hello everyone. I'm Rudi Bakhtiar here at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Now in the news, Pope John Paul II is back at the Vatican. He will continue recuperating from breathing problems and concentrate on his plans for holy week, which begins next Sunday. The pontiff left the hospital earlier today blessing and waving to bystanders along the way.

Some survivors of December tsunami disaster have filed suit against the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the Thai government. They claim the agencies do not do enough to warn and protect people from the deadly flood. At least 166,000 people in 11 countries lost their lives.

And in Atlanta, the man suspected of killing four people in a weekend crime spree could face a federal judge as early as tomorrow. Brian Nichols remains in federal custody. His alleged victims include a county judge and a U.S. immigration and customs enforcement agent.

More news coming up for you at the top of the hour. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

ANDREW SERWER, CNN ANCHOR, IN THE MONEY: If you're an enterprise oriented worker who can think out of the box, executive mission critical responsibilities and engage in meaningful dialogue and debate, oh my god, my next guest has the job for you. It's called "Cut the Bull." Brian Fugere is co-author of "Why Business People Speak Like Idiots." He joins us now with some tips on talking like real people in the work place.

Brian, I think this is a riot but it's also a real issue because people do have this tendency to use jargon at this particular point in time which is why we've engaged your presence upon this particular -- I'm kidding?

CAFFERTY: That's enough!

SERWER: OK, anyway, it is true. Why do business people talk way?

BRIAN FUGERE, AUTHOR: There is a lot of reasons but I think a lot of it is related to fear. They're afraid of saying something that's going to come back and bite them in the rear end.

SERWER: Bite them in the butt, you can say it!

FUGERE: Exactly. Bite them in the butt. We can probably say something else too.

SERWER: Yes.

FUGERE: But there is a great deal of fear to commit and there is fear of being exposed for not really knowing what they're talking about and there is also a lot of habit when people enter companies these days. They look to the top. The fish rots from the head and they see what is happening at the top of the company. And they say I guess that's the way I need to speak if I have to get ahead.

LISCOVICZ: You know I have to say that I am guilty of not being able to read a lot of the quarterly earnings in particular maybe because they have to go through so many lawyers. So let's initiate the project action plan, or in other words, let's get started. When did this happen? Did it just develop slowly? Or is it something that as companies became much bigger, they started to talk to people like us that they decided to try to confuse us?

FUGERE: Well, it's been happening for a long time. One of the things that has made that more obvious to all of us is technology. We have so much information available at our fingertips, that when -- you can't stand up at the podium and throw rose petals out and expect everything to be hunkie dorie when it is not, because people know better.

They know when there is bull. Bull detectors are on high alert these days because they have access to so much information. It has also gotten a little bit worse because we have this great tide of political correctness. We're also in a very litigious world. We're afraid saying anything. By the time it goes through the attorneys, by the time it goes through the H.R. people, by the time it goes through the P.R. flaks, you have nothing left to say. So a combination of technology and litigation and political correctness is all conspired to make it worse than it's ever been before.

CAFFERTY: So what are you going to do about it?

FUGERE: Well, we believe there are a number of traps. Sort of you to have your fuss buster on to avoid the traps. Once you know where they are, you can avoid them. The first trap is obscurity, using fifty cent words to make a five cent point. People like straight talkers. You like to buy from straight talkers. You like to go to doctors who are straight talking. You like to do business with straight talkers, if you just realize that it's obnoxious and rude to be obscure you'll start to be sensitized to it. And start to avoid that.

CAFFERTY: But you just said there are disincentives built into this society to speaking plain English that we're litigious, we're politically correct. The government does this stuff. It's not just private business. Have you ever tried to read a government litigation about anything? It is like reading a Chinese take out menu in Beijing. So there is really no incentive for people to cast the caution to the wind and stand up there like John Wayne and tell it like it is. You'll get fired, you'll get sued, you'll get something.

FUGERE: Certainly, you have to be careful and you have to do this right but let's look at leaders who have built their reputation and their careers on straight talk. Look at people like Jack Welch at GE. Look at people like Jeff Bezos at Amazon or Warren Buffett at Berkshire Hathaway. These are people who are straight talking, clear speaking executives who have gotten ahead. And we think because there's so little straight talk out there and again you have to be careful. You can't go overboard on this but because there is so little straight talk out there, there is an opportunity for business people at every level to really make progress in their career just by talking straight.

SERWER: Brian, I think it's actually getting better. I mean Jason Giam the other day tried to give a press conference. Where he tried to apologize for something everyone knew was serious. He never actually said it -- I apologize for a situation that has occurred. It is a situation that I have perhaps been involved in this situation. And the next day the papers just said you are full of B.S. So do you have some examples by the way of some of this doublespeak that's kind of interesting?

FUGERE: Well in business it's full of it. But, so, for example, you might see something like re-purpose intellectual assets.

SERWER: What does that mean?

FUGERE: Use what we've learned.

SERWER: Oh. I thought it was, you're fired.

FUGERE: Or you might see something like leverage enterprise core competencies to maximize shareholder value.

SERWER: What does that mean you're fired? I keep thinking I'm going to get fired.

FUGERE: Taking advantage of your strengths.

No, there is really a great opportunity for people here. On the converse, on the opposite side, we looked at scandal plagued companies and we looked at the letters to shareholders and communication to shareholders like people like Ebbers and people like Scrushy (ph) and Skilling and Lay and it is full of doublespeak and gibberish.

So not only is there an opportunity to get ahead but we see when you look at companies and in fact if you're an investor, companies that speak this way, where straight talk is not a hallmark of what they do, it's a reason to be worried about the company.

LISCOVICZ: Well you know Brian, I interviewed Bill Gates last week. He's known to be very competitive as well as of course a scientist. I asked him the simple question is your wife better at board games than you? And he said, data would suggest it.

SERWER: Yes Bill.

LISCOVICZ: But then he specified that it was only a jigsaw and not a crossword. Anyway, I think there is a lot of work yet to be done and Brian you are out there trying to get us back to plain speaking English so everyone would understand what we're saying. Brian Fugere, co-author "Why Business People Speak Like Idots: A Bullfighter's Guide." Thanks for joining us.

FUGERE: Thanks for having me.

LISCOVICZ: There is much more to come here on IN THE MONEY.

Up next, Mike's greatest hits. Myron Kandel has been covering business since the days when CEOs actually got some respect. Imagine that, as he gets set to retire. Join him for a look back.

And gross assets. Learn how to make it a date she won't forget as we show you our fun site of the week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LISCOVICZ: There was fan fare this week about a TV newsman's retirement but there was just one problem, they were focusing on the wrong TV news man. The real giant of the airwaves who's hanging up his microphone is our very own Myron Kandel who helped bring business journalism to television. And Myron joins us now to talk about the highlights of a great career and a great mentor, I might add. You know you were able to cover journalism all these years and mentor just a whole new generation of business journalists.

Myron, let's just start at the beginning at the World Trade Center, the New York Bureau for CNN was actually the World Trade Center in a fishbowl type of environment.

MYRON KANDEL, CNN BUSINESS NEWS: That's right and it was 25 years ago that I joined. I joined in January 1980. We went on the air in June of '80. And we pioneered in covering business news on television. Because there had not been a network news television show before us. There was "Wall Street Week" but that's an investment show and we did it and people were very skeptical. How can do you a half hour of business news.

LISCOVICZ: How boring.

KANDEL: Yes you don't have the fires and riots and whatever. And then they would say, the only thing you have are talking heads. And I think we, and others, have proved that talking heads are OK if they say something while they're talking and now of course CNN, this program and others, does have a lot of other things we have graphics and we have people in the field and whatever. In the beginning, we didn't have any of that.

SERWER: Myron, what are some of the great stories that you covered over the past two and a half decades? What are some of your favorites?

KANDEL: Well, I wouldn't call them my favorite but I think the most important story was the crash of October, 19th, 1987 when the Dow fell more than 900 points one day. About 22 percent and we covered that story around the clock. It was the first time that a financial news story. We started on Wall Street. We continued that evening, then we picked up from Tokyo and Australia and then Europe when the trading started there and then again in the morning when trading began in New York.

So we really, people said oh, you really came of age then. But we had been doing it for seven years before that. So we were ready to do it and we had "Money Line with Lou Dobbs" and a lot of other good people who have come and some of them gone over the years since. But we had scandals on Wall Street. Remember Boesky, Dennis Levine.

LISCOVICZ: Mike Milken.

KANDEL: Mike Milken, now, 20 years later, we have Jack Grubman and the Wall Street research scandals. We had the corporate scandals. But another thing that we had at the beginning, remember there was a crisis in Social Security and President Reagan appointed a commission headed by Alan Greenspan, right?

SERWER: Yes.

KANDEL: And they solved the Social Security problem and what do we have now, another Social Security.

CAFFERTY: You hired Lou Dobbs to work at this network. How did that come about?

KANDEL: Well, we found Lou in Seattle. He was a bright young guy who'd done some business reporting and we brought him here. There were four of us at the very beginning. Lou, Stuart Varney, myself, and a producer. And we had, as a contributing columnist, Dan Dorschman who went on to do other good things. And it was really interesting, we did this whole program with four of us, full-time people.

CAFFERTY: At the risk of embarrassing you and I don't mean do that. I want to tell a quick Myron Kandel story. And I told this on "American Morning." I joined CNN as a member of the CNNfn network. The financial network which is no more now. They shut it down here a while ago. About 7 1/2 years ago, absolutely green to the place. Didn't know anybody in the build building except Lou who I had met once before.

And I'm wandering around the newsroom trying to figure out what I'm suppose to be doing and this gentleman went out of his way to help me, to show me the ropes, to be nice to me, to teach me. And a lot of people come and go in this business and the legacy of most of them is they covered this story, they did that scoop, they were on this live remote. This is a nice man and there are very few who pass through 25 years in this business that you can say that about.

So regardless of all of your accomplishments in the industry in terms of television, your legacy of being a nice guy is the thing that I would be most proud of and I thank you publicly of all the kindness as you showed me when I was starting here.

KANDEL: Well that's so nice, Jack, and I really appreciate that. I knew were a pro. The key is that those of us who are professional journalists and you and I have spent our whole adult careers doing that you appreciate professionalism and even though you were relevantly new to business news you were a television pro an a news pro and I appreciated that. And I was glad to help you, but in my new life, I'm going to write a couple of books and one of those books is titled "Nice Guys Can Finish First." And it's my contention that you don't have to be an S.O.B. to succeed.

SERWER: Here, here.

LISCOVICZ: And Myron Kandel is a classic example of that, a former president for the New York Financial Writers Assn, former president of the Society of Financial Journalists. And the man responsible for bringing me back to CNN. We look forward of sharing the hallway together because you're going to work, continue to work at CNN, write your books.

KANDEL: You know that's so nice to hear all these good words and I'm still a live.

CAFFERTY: You are on the right side of the dirt as they say.

LISCOVICZ: Clean up your office. Myron Kandel, congratulations on this new chapter in your professional career.

Coming up, heartburns, an office romance cost Harry Stonecipher the top job at Boeing. We'll talk about happens when Cupid gets in the cubicle. And whether it is love or money on your mind, drop us a line. The address is INTHEMONEY@cnn.com.

Spring is in the air. And that means it's time to roll up your sleeves, open a window and shake out those sheets. In this week's "Money and Family," how do to do your spring-cleaning on the cheap.

To make your faucets shine, put a few drops of olive oil on a dry rag. Spray the faucet with club soda and wipe dry.

For windows, mix one cup of vinegar with one cup of water. Spray the mixture on the window and wipe dry with a rag.

To clean floors, mix two cups of vinegar with four cups of hot water, add two drops of tea tree oil. This oil acts as a disinfectant.

For a do-it-yourself air freshener, place your favorite citrus peels in a pot, cover with water and simmer. This will freshen your kitchen and the rest of the house.

Happy cleaning. I'm Susan Lisovicz for "Money & Family."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Every once in a while, top corporate executives are actually made to pay for doing something not so smart. That is what happened to Harry Stonecipher at Boeing. Allen Wastler is here with more on that and of course as always the fun site of the week.

ALLEN WASTLER, MONEY.COM: Yes, that was a big story this week.

CAFFERTY: Huge.

WASTLER: A $38 million fling this guy had. Because that's how much money he had to give up.

SERWER: Maybe it was worth it, I don't know.

WASTLER: If you hadn't heard the story. Essentially the board found out that Mr. Stonecipher was having a relationship with a female executive in the company. Consensual, you know nothing specifically in the rules about that. However, Mr. Stonecipher was brought in to help the company get in on an ethical track and no more wrong doings or shenanigans around here folks. So when you are there preaching ethics on the one hand and walking the straight narrow and by the way I am seeing the young lady -- yes, it will not work.

CAFFERTY: As of the taping of our show. She is still on the payroll, right?

WASTLER: That's right. The board said you really need to resign. He said, OK, fine I resign. He has to give up some bonus payments that amounts to $38 million. So now two lessons you can draw here, one Wall Street there is a little bit of trepidation because Mr. Stonecipher did manage to put the company back on a good financial commercial track. The stock went up 54 percent and so now all of a sudden that CEO is gone. There's a little, which way is the company going to go now? Second thing, beware, e-mail because apparently the way the board found out is they got an anonymous tip from somebody who had seen a graphic e-mail message from Mr. Stonecipher.

CAFFERTY: Like the chart that goes from low to high graphic?

WASTLER: Yes, it must mean!

CAFFERTY: What's the fun site of the week?

SERWER: It's baby I want you to ride in my airplane.

WASTLER: We are talking about male/female relationships and what not. You know how do you impress a date? OK, Z. Frank one our faze in the fun site area. Has a few pointers, don't check out the waitress. That's bad.

LISCOVICZ: We don't like rubber-neckers.

WASTLER: OK. Another one is if you will have food there and stuff, you may want to think about romantic ways to use the food. Let's see that one.

CAFFERTY: Oh my gosh.

WASTLER: Ketch-up.

SERWER: What do you think, Susan? Is that a turn-on for you?

LISCOVICZ: No, not with ketch-up.

SERWER: We're just a bunch of guys here. So what do we not know.

CAFFERTY: I'm almost afraid to ask what some of the other examples might be.

WASTLER: You can find the address for the fun site on our show page and we will take you right there.

CAFFERTY: There you go, thanks Allen.

WASTLER: Sure thing.

CAFFERTY: Coming up next on IN THE MONEY time to hear from you as we read some of your e-mails from the past week. You can send us an e-mail right now if you're so inclined. We are at INTHEMONEY@cnn.com. Back in a flash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Now it's time to read your answers to our question of the week about whether President Bush and the Republicans should drop their campaign to change their Social Security?

Robert from New Jersey wrote this, "Yes, simply because it won't sell & because the more immediate problem the government should be addressing is Medicare."

Richard from Indiana wrote, "I think the president should fight on. I want control of my own money for my retirement. I think those who oppose privatization are the ones who want to control others by controlling their hare earned money."

And Bryon checked in with this, "If President Bush wants to fix Social Security, he should just take away the cushy pension & benefits Congress gets & replace them with Social Security & Medicaid. If he did that, we'd see changes for the better immediately."

Time now for next week's e-mail question of the week, which is this. Which one of your expenses has increased the most over the past year? Send your answers to INTHEMONEY@cnn.com. And you should visit our show page at MONEY.com/in the money which is where you will find the address for the fun site of the week.

Thanks for joining us for this edition of IN THE MONEY. My thanks to CNN correspondent Susan Liscovicz. "Fortune" magazine editor-at- large Andy Serwer and MONEY.com managing editor Allen Wastler. Join us next week Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00. Or you can watch Andy and me all week long on "American Morning." We get under way at 7:00 Eastern in the a.m. Until the next time thanks for watching.

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