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American Morning

26-Year-Old Widow Held Hostage in Georgia Home; In Wisconsin, Plenty of Speculation, No Clear Motive, for Deadly Shooting Rampage

Aired March 14, 2005 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My (INAUDIBLE) died four years ago, and I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A 26-year-old widow held hostage in her Georgia home, taken at gunpoint by a fugitive on the run. She tells her story of terror and an unlikely bond, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

Good morning, welcome everybody. Bill Hemmer's got the day off, but Jack Cafferty is helping out, and filling in on this side, rather than that side.

Good morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Moving around. Good. How are you doing?

O'BRIEN: Well, thank you.

CAFFERTY: Good.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this guy Brian Nichols.

CAFFERTY: Apparently killed those four people in Atlanta, Georgia. We now know what he was doing while he on the run from the law for 26 some hours.

O'BRIEN: Nichols, of course, ended up at the home of Ashley Smith. We're going to hear what happened inside her home and how she went from being bound and gagged to finally cooking him a pancake breakfast.

Also this morning, Jeff Toobin helping us out on this side this morning. Appropriate, because of course lots of legal questions to talk about and you, in fact, are taking e-mail questions.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. We are talking about the Atlanta courthouse shootings. And our question of the day is very simple at CNN, at am@CNN.com, "Do the Atlanta courthouse shootings change your opinion about the death penalty?" e- mail us at am@CNN.com.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jeff, thanks a lot.

Well, let's talk about this case today. Thirty-three-year-old Brian Nichols, the suspect in these Atlanta shootings, expected back in court as early as today.

CNN's Gary Tuchman has been following the story all weekend. He joins us from the federal penitentiary in Atlanta, where Nichols is now being held.

Good morning, Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, good morning to you.

Brian Nichols is being held behind the gates of this imposing prison, the federal penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia, a place where Al Capone once served. Nichols will likely have his first appearance in court in connection with these charges tomorrow, but it could happen as early as today. We'll find out in the next couple hours.

After he was arrested, we were telling you about this woman who is being considered a hero for being held captive in her own home, getting out and calling 911, leading to his arrest. We were very anxious to talk to her, to say the least.

Last night, we got the chance, and what she told us was mesmerizing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): At 2:00 in the morning, 17 hours after Brian Nichols rampage and escape, this woman was walking into her home when somebody pushed her from behind.

ASHLEY SMITH, TAKEN HOSTAGE BY COURTHOUSE SHOOTING SUSPECT: I started to scream. And he put a gun to my side, and he said, "If you don't scream, I won't hurt you."

TUCHMAN: Ashley Smith was forced into her bathroom.

SMITH: He took his hat off, and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yes, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me. I have a 5-year-old little girl."

TUCHMAN: The 26-year-old realized the man she'd seen on the news all day, who terrorized an entire region, could kill her at any time. She says Nichols tied her up with an extension cord and masking tape.

SMITH: I told her that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning at 10:00, and I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me no. My husband died four years ago, and I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy. And she was expecting to see me the next morning. TUCHMAN: It was a turning point. Ashley Smith was untied. And later...

SMITH: He put the guns under the bed like, you know, I'm not going to mess around with you anymore.

TUCHMAN: She says Nichols announced he had to ditch his getaway vehicle, so she followed him in her car with a cell phone, but she didn't call police, fearing a bloodbath or his escape. She went back home with Nichols and made him breakfast.

SMITH: He was overwhelmed with, wow, he said "Real butter?" "Pancakes?"

TUCHMAN: She asked him, "Why did you come to my house?"

SMITH: He said he thought I was an angel sent from God, and that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ, and that he was lost and God led him right to me.

TUCHMAN: After hours of talking, alleged quadruple murderer Brian Nichols told Ashley Smith it was OK to go see her child.

SMITH: I had left my house at 9:30, and I got in the car and I immediately called 911, and told them that he was there, and she asked me where I was. I said, I'm on my way to see my daughter.

TUCHMAN: The SWAT team showed up. Brian Nichols waved a white shirt, and he was arrested. Ashley Smith says it was God's destiny.

SMITH: The reason I met Brian Nichols was so I could talk him out of hurting anybody else, and get him to turn himself in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: There appears to be no question that Ashley Smith almost single-handedly ended this terrifying spree in the Atlanta, Georgia area. She did tell us she felt sorry for Brian Nichols, and believes he didn't know what he was doing. But we then said to her, listen, did you know that according to the police, Brian Nichols took this deputy's gun, assaulted the deputy, and then instead of escaping, made his way into the courthouse, and then allegedly shot the judge and the court reporter, and she said she hadn't heard that part of the story.

Soledad, back to you.

O'BRIEN: Gary Tuchman for us. Gary, thanks.

TUCHMAN: There was a report this morning, in fact, that Brian Nichols may have given police what's been called an incriminating statement. According to the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," Nichols gave a law-enforcement agent details about the killing of that judge, and the court reporter and the sheriff's deputy, and a U.S. Customs agent as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Paul Howard is a Fulton County district attorney.

Mr. Howard, good morning to you. Thanks for being with us.

Did Brian Nichols confess?

PAUL HOWARD, FULTON CO. DISTRICT ATTY.: Well, I am, at this time, not at liberty to comment on what he said to the police.

O'BRIEN: What was his demeanor when he was finally apprehended, in fact, by police?

HOWARD: According to the officers that I talked to, he seemed to be rather defiant, almost kind of proud of his activities.

O'BRIEN: He's now facing, if I understand correctly, a federal firearms charge. What ultimately, though, do you plan to charge him with?

HOWARD: We plan to charge him with the murders of the four Fulton County residents. We plan to charge him with the number of aggravated assaults, carjackings. It's going to be a very, very large indictment.

O'BRIEN: When you consider that, in fact, the murder of the judge, and the court reporter, and a deputy and then, of course, the customs agent, and then the critical injury to the other deputy, are you looking for the death penalty in this case?

HOWARD: Well, it's our custom in every case, we wait until we receive the complete report from the police department. I will spend some time personally talking with each one of the families, and then we'll announce the decision.

O'BRIEN: I recognize that there is still some work to do on that, but what does your gut tell you that you're going to do?

HOWARD: Well, my gut tells me that this is one of the most horrendous crimes that has ever taken place in our country, and so maybe one can interpret from that.

O'BRIEN: Will you, potentially, though have to move this case out of Fulton County?

HOWARD: I don't think so. I think most defense attorneys believe that Fulton County is probably one of the fairest jurisdictions, and I cannot see them moving it to another location. In fact, it is very rare -- in fact, I can't even remember a circumstance where lawyers have even asked to move a case out of Fulton County.

O'BRIEN: But as you just pointed out, this is one of the most horrific crimes, I have to imagine, in that area, and the notoriety itself may make it difficult to get a jury that isn't aware of the case before it goes to trial, isn't that fair to say? HOWARD: Yes, we -- but, you know, a couple years ago, we tried H. Rap Brown, Jalil Al Amin (ph), here in Fulton County. We charged him with the death of a Fulton County deputy. It was a high-profile case. And in that case, the venue remained here in Fulton County. So I would be surprised if it was moved to another location.

O'BRIEN: Brian Nichols was in court originally because he was being retried on rape charges. The mistrial had been declared a couple days earlier. What happens with that rape case? Is that now dropped?

HOWARD: Well, what we're going to do this morning, is we're going to have some conversations with our chief judge, and we're going to figure out how we can technically resolve that case. And we want to resolve it, because of course, it is a pending case. The case was actually in progress on Friday when this incident took place.

O'BRIEN: Paul Howard is the Fulton County district attorney. Mr. Howard, thank you for your time this morning.

HOWARD: OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Coming up a little bit later this morning, more details on the Nichols capture after 26 hours on the run, and how he ended up on Ashley Smith's doorstep in the middle of the night -- Jack.

CAFFERTY: In Wisconsin, plenty of speculation, no clear motive, for a deadly shooting rampage during a hotel religious service of the Living Church of God on Saturday. The gunman killed seven people, and then himself.

The latest now from CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seven crosses standing as a testament to the seven lives abruptly ended Saturday afternoon. Shot, police say, by a man they had welcomed into their church. Terry Ratzmann, the quiet, 44-year-old they thought they knew.

TOM MUELLER, VICTIM'S COUSIN: I really wonder what his story is and what sickness he had.

FREED: Tom Mueller's cousin, Gerald (ph) Miller, is one of the seven dead. Miller was among the roughly 50 people attending a Saturday service held regularly at this Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield, Wisconsin, a Milwaukee suburb. Police say Ratzmann showed up about 20 minutes into the service.

CHIEF DANIEL TUSHAUS, BROOKFIELD POLICE DEPT.: He entered from the back of the room. He did not give any warning or provide any verbiage before firing a handgun. At this time, we believe 22 rounds were fired by the suspect. FREED: Four people died at the scene. Another three, including Randy Gregory, the church's pastor, died later at the hospital. Four more were wounded, including a 10-year-old girl.

Next, Ratzmann turned the gun on himself. Ratzmann was single and lived in the nearby town of New Berlin with his mother and sister. Police are focusing on two possible motives for the killings. They say Ratzmann may have been frustrated at the end of a job contract. They're also looking into word that he abruptly left a church service two weeks ago, apparently upset by something in the sermon. Police say a friend of Ratzmann's tried to intervene during the shooting, asking him why he was doing it. He never got an answer; in part, because the end came quickly. Investigators believe the entire episode, from the time Ratzmann entered the room to the time he took his own life, lasted just one minute.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAFFERTY: Jonathan Freed reporting from Brookfield, Wisconsin. The Living Church of God, on its Web site, calls the shooting a, quote, "terrible tragedy," and says they're cooperating fully with investigators.

(WEATHER REPORT)

CAFFERTY: Magic Kingdom gets a new king a lot earlier than expected. Andy on Disney's big shakeup. He's "Minding Your Business."

O'BRIEN: Also Iraq's most wanted terrorist. Details of potential terror targets as well, restaurants, and theaters, and schools here in the U.S. A "Time" magazine exclusive is just ahead.

And this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: They could have heard your scream already. And if they did, the police are on the way, and I'm going to have to hold you hostage and I'm going to have to kill you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: More from the woman held hostage by Brian Nichols, the chilling or deal in her own words. Some of the most compelling tape ever, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Here's a comforting thought -- American schools, movie theaters, restaurants in terrorist crosshairs. In our CNN Security Watch now, "Time" magazine reports that Iraq's top terrorist, al Qaeda associate Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, has his eye on so-called soft targets in America. "Time's" Adam Zagorin is one of the authors of this piece that is, as I mentioned, a bit discomforting. He joins us now from Washington D.C. Adam's what the origin of this latest warning?

ADAM ZAGORIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the warning was sent out in a restricted security bulletin across the United States last week, and it comes from a -- the interrogation of an associate, a member of the Zarqawi organization, who was taken into custody in Iraq by U.S. forces last year. He remains in the custody of the United States, and this particular word of -- account of what Zarqawi seems to be thinking about came from this interrogation, probably, in part, conducted last year and perhaps thereafter.

CAFFERTY: So obviously, it's considered to be pretty credible information. Tell us a little bit about what they mean when they say soft targets.

ZAGORIN: Soft targets is just a reference to targets that can't readily be defended. I guess you could defend a restaurant, or a movie theater or a school, but you probably couldn't defend all of them in a free country like the United States.

I should just add that although the information is considered credible enough to put out in this bulletin, U.S. authorities are not aware that there are sleeper cells or agents crawling around this country about to execute this particular action. They simply have this account from the interrogation, which indicates that the terrorists are thinking about this in some detail.

CAFFERTY: And we also had the report a couple weeks ago of the communication between Al Zarqawi and Osama bin Laden, suggesting that it was time for Al Zarqawi to be thinking about attacking targets inside the United States. You say they're not here now, but is there any reason to believe that they're coming? And if so, how could they get into the country? I think I know the answer, but...

ZAGORIN: Well, they -- Zarqawi has confined his activities of late, certainly, to Iraq. But according to this interrogation, he was speaking specifically about sending people in -- well, he spoke specifically of having someone purchase or acquire some way, a visa to Honduras, then travel through Mexico into the United States, which is a rather specific idea of how it ought to be done, which is another reason why, perhaps, when Condoleezza Rice was in Mexico late last week, she evoked the issue of border security and terrorist infiltration; specifically U.S. officials often do that, but I think it's an indication that this issue is on the minds of top people in this administration.

CAFFERTY: And of course the border between the United States and Mexico is notorious for leaking like a sieve and being a way for thousands of people each week to gain access to the United States. Any reason to believe this warning might lead to a tightening of the border restrictions down there?

ZAGORIN: I think it's an ongoing effort, when then-secretary Tom Ridge was in Mexico some months ago, last year, he had meetings specifically devoted to border security. I think that it's something that the U.S. recognizes, this vulnerability. Mexico is certainly aware of it, and I think there's some considerable vulnerability on the Canadian border, not because people aren't trying to do their job, but because you have a very long border in both cases.

CAFFERTY: Adam Zagorin of "Time" magazine, Adam thanks for being with us. Appreciate it. You can read the entire article in this week's edition of "Time" magazine. Stay tuned to CNN for the most reliable news about your security.

O'BRIEN: Well, Disney's embattled CEO is leaving earlier than planned. What drove that decision? Andy is "Minding Your Business," up next on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAFFERTY: Disney has finally decided who's going to take over the mouse house. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Jack.

You know, some wags thought they'd never see the day when Michael Eisner would step down, because he's been fighting to keep his job for years. But now, apparently he will be stepping down, October 1, the company has announced. His longtime No. 2, Bob Iger, will be taking over the job. And the backstory is that Disney was looking to hire Meg Whitman away from eBay. She apparently turned the job down, and they turned to Mr. Iger.

Eisner, of course, has been under fire for years and years. There's Bob Iger. He's a guy who has been running the company and running the TV network for many years, and a less polarizing figure than Mr. Eisner, who had been under fire for years because of weak earnings, because of poor performance at ABC and the parks, and because of his huge pay.

The company turned around, though, recently. The stock has been up about 10 percent over the past year. It's nearly doubled over the past two years, but OK, here's what Iger has to do. First of all, Eisner made disparaging comments about him in that new book about him, so that's going to be a little bit tough. Critics are not mollified. They say he's just Eisner's No. 2 guy. And then he's got a lot of stuff to do in terms of restoring the relationship with Pixar and those sorts of things.

CAFFERTY: My question is, what kind of a message does he get when they say, well, we tried to hire somebody else, but they wouldn't take the job, so I guess we'll give it to you?

SERWER: Yes, well, that's going to be a really tough situation for him. And then, plus, his old boss was taking potshots at him in (INAUDIBLE) book.

CAFFERTY: Warm and fuzzy places, these corporations, aren't they?

SERWER: It continues to be.

CAFFERTY: Thanks, Andy.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

Time for the Question of the Day." Jeff Toobin sitting in for us, because of course legal question today.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Indeed. Good morning.

Brian Nichols, the suspect in the Friday's courthouse shootings in Atlanta, is likely to face a variety of charges, several of which could carry the death penalty. The evidence sure seems overwhelming. Nichols is accused of shooting a judge, a court reporter and two law- enforcement officers.

Our question today is simple, do the Atlanta courthouse shootings change your opinion of the death penalty? E-mail us as am@CNN.com.

O'BRIEN: I wonder if these are the kinds of cases that make people change their opinion, or if it's sort of a moral issue, that no matter sort of what the latest case is.

TOOBIN: What struck me as so interesting about this is that the momentum is generally is against the death penalty in the legal system at the moment. You have the Supreme Court striking down the death penalty for minors, for mentally retarded. But you have a case like this, where it seems to me a lot of people are going to want to say, this guy should be executed.

SERWER: Do you know how common the death penalty is in Georgia?

TOOBIN: It's not up there at the top. It's not up there with Texas, Florida, Virginia. But it has it, and they do execute people.

O'BRIEN: Really horrific shootings. I mean, we obviously, we broke the news Friday, at the end of our show, and then of course wrapping it up over the weekend. Shocking.

Jeff, thanks.

Well, there's much more AMERICAN MORNING, right after this short break. Ahead on "90-Second Pop," Jay Leno wins in court. He can tell all the Michael Jackson jokes he wants, but maybe he was better off losing. We'll explain.

Plus, "American Idol" gets rocked by controversy. Somebody's going home early, and not because he was voted off. That's later on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 14, 2005 - 07:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My (INAUDIBLE) died four years ago, and I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A 26-year-old widow held hostage in her Georgia home, taken at gunpoint by a fugitive on the run. She tells her story of terror and an unlikely bond, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

Good morning, welcome everybody. Bill Hemmer's got the day off, but Jack Cafferty is helping out, and filling in on this side, rather than that side.

Good morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Moving around. Good. How are you doing?

O'BRIEN: Well, thank you.

CAFFERTY: Good.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this guy Brian Nichols.

CAFFERTY: Apparently killed those four people in Atlanta, Georgia. We now know what he was doing while he on the run from the law for 26 some hours.

O'BRIEN: Nichols, of course, ended up at the home of Ashley Smith. We're going to hear what happened inside her home and how she went from being bound and gagged to finally cooking him a pancake breakfast.

Also this morning, Jeff Toobin helping us out on this side this morning. Appropriate, because of course lots of legal questions to talk about and you, in fact, are taking e-mail questions.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. We are talking about the Atlanta courthouse shootings. And our question of the day is very simple at CNN, at am@CNN.com, "Do the Atlanta courthouse shootings change your opinion about the death penalty?" e- mail us at am@CNN.com.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jeff, thanks a lot.

Well, let's talk about this case today. Thirty-three-year-old Brian Nichols, the suspect in these Atlanta shootings, expected back in court as early as today.

CNN's Gary Tuchman has been following the story all weekend. He joins us from the federal penitentiary in Atlanta, where Nichols is now being held.

Good morning, Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, good morning to you.

Brian Nichols is being held behind the gates of this imposing prison, the federal penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia, a place where Al Capone once served. Nichols will likely have his first appearance in court in connection with these charges tomorrow, but it could happen as early as today. We'll find out in the next couple hours.

After he was arrested, we were telling you about this woman who is being considered a hero for being held captive in her own home, getting out and calling 911, leading to his arrest. We were very anxious to talk to her, to say the least.

Last night, we got the chance, and what she told us was mesmerizing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): At 2:00 in the morning, 17 hours after Brian Nichols rampage and escape, this woman was walking into her home when somebody pushed her from behind.

ASHLEY SMITH, TAKEN HOSTAGE BY COURTHOUSE SHOOTING SUSPECT: I started to scream. And he put a gun to my side, and he said, "If you don't scream, I won't hurt you."

TUCHMAN: Ashley Smith was forced into her bathroom.

SMITH: He took his hat off, and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yes, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me. I have a 5-year-old little girl."

TUCHMAN: The 26-year-old realized the man she'd seen on the news all day, who terrorized an entire region, could kill her at any time. She says Nichols tied her up with an extension cord and masking tape.

SMITH: I told her that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning at 10:00, and I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me no. My husband died four years ago, and I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy. And she was expecting to see me the next morning. TUCHMAN: It was a turning point. Ashley Smith was untied. And later...

SMITH: He put the guns under the bed like, you know, I'm not going to mess around with you anymore.

TUCHMAN: She says Nichols announced he had to ditch his getaway vehicle, so she followed him in her car with a cell phone, but she didn't call police, fearing a bloodbath or his escape. She went back home with Nichols and made him breakfast.

SMITH: He was overwhelmed with, wow, he said "Real butter?" "Pancakes?"

TUCHMAN: She asked him, "Why did you come to my house?"

SMITH: He said he thought I was an angel sent from God, and that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ, and that he was lost and God led him right to me.

TUCHMAN: After hours of talking, alleged quadruple murderer Brian Nichols told Ashley Smith it was OK to go see her child.

SMITH: I had left my house at 9:30, and I got in the car and I immediately called 911, and told them that he was there, and she asked me where I was. I said, I'm on my way to see my daughter.

TUCHMAN: The SWAT team showed up. Brian Nichols waved a white shirt, and he was arrested. Ashley Smith says it was God's destiny.

SMITH: The reason I met Brian Nichols was so I could talk him out of hurting anybody else, and get him to turn himself in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: There appears to be no question that Ashley Smith almost single-handedly ended this terrifying spree in the Atlanta, Georgia area. She did tell us she felt sorry for Brian Nichols, and believes he didn't know what he was doing. But we then said to her, listen, did you know that according to the police, Brian Nichols took this deputy's gun, assaulted the deputy, and then instead of escaping, made his way into the courthouse, and then allegedly shot the judge and the court reporter, and she said she hadn't heard that part of the story.

Soledad, back to you.

O'BRIEN: Gary Tuchman for us. Gary, thanks.

TUCHMAN: There was a report this morning, in fact, that Brian Nichols may have given police what's been called an incriminating statement. According to the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," Nichols gave a law-enforcement agent details about the killing of that judge, and the court reporter and the sheriff's deputy, and a U.S. Customs agent as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Paul Howard is a Fulton County district attorney.

Mr. Howard, good morning to you. Thanks for being with us.

Did Brian Nichols confess?

PAUL HOWARD, FULTON CO. DISTRICT ATTY.: Well, I am, at this time, not at liberty to comment on what he said to the police.

O'BRIEN: What was his demeanor when he was finally apprehended, in fact, by police?

HOWARD: According to the officers that I talked to, he seemed to be rather defiant, almost kind of proud of his activities.

O'BRIEN: He's now facing, if I understand correctly, a federal firearms charge. What ultimately, though, do you plan to charge him with?

HOWARD: We plan to charge him with the murders of the four Fulton County residents. We plan to charge him with the number of aggravated assaults, carjackings. It's going to be a very, very large indictment.

O'BRIEN: When you consider that, in fact, the murder of the judge, and the court reporter, and a deputy and then, of course, the customs agent, and then the critical injury to the other deputy, are you looking for the death penalty in this case?

HOWARD: Well, it's our custom in every case, we wait until we receive the complete report from the police department. I will spend some time personally talking with each one of the families, and then we'll announce the decision.

O'BRIEN: I recognize that there is still some work to do on that, but what does your gut tell you that you're going to do?

HOWARD: Well, my gut tells me that this is one of the most horrendous crimes that has ever taken place in our country, and so maybe one can interpret from that.

O'BRIEN: Will you, potentially, though have to move this case out of Fulton County?

HOWARD: I don't think so. I think most defense attorneys believe that Fulton County is probably one of the fairest jurisdictions, and I cannot see them moving it to another location. In fact, it is very rare -- in fact, I can't even remember a circumstance where lawyers have even asked to move a case out of Fulton County.

O'BRIEN: But as you just pointed out, this is one of the most horrific crimes, I have to imagine, in that area, and the notoriety itself may make it difficult to get a jury that isn't aware of the case before it goes to trial, isn't that fair to say? HOWARD: Yes, we -- but, you know, a couple years ago, we tried H. Rap Brown, Jalil Al Amin (ph), here in Fulton County. We charged him with the death of a Fulton County deputy. It was a high-profile case. And in that case, the venue remained here in Fulton County. So I would be surprised if it was moved to another location.

O'BRIEN: Brian Nichols was in court originally because he was being retried on rape charges. The mistrial had been declared a couple days earlier. What happens with that rape case? Is that now dropped?

HOWARD: Well, what we're going to do this morning, is we're going to have some conversations with our chief judge, and we're going to figure out how we can technically resolve that case. And we want to resolve it, because of course, it is a pending case. The case was actually in progress on Friday when this incident took place.

O'BRIEN: Paul Howard is the Fulton County district attorney. Mr. Howard, thank you for your time this morning.

HOWARD: OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Coming up a little bit later this morning, more details on the Nichols capture after 26 hours on the run, and how he ended up on Ashley Smith's doorstep in the middle of the night -- Jack.

CAFFERTY: In Wisconsin, plenty of speculation, no clear motive, for a deadly shooting rampage during a hotel religious service of the Living Church of God on Saturday. The gunman killed seven people, and then himself.

The latest now from CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seven crosses standing as a testament to the seven lives abruptly ended Saturday afternoon. Shot, police say, by a man they had welcomed into their church. Terry Ratzmann, the quiet, 44-year-old they thought they knew.

TOM MUELLER, VICTIM'S COUSIN: I really wonder what his story is and what sickness he had.

FREED: Tom Mueller's cousin, Gerald (ph) Miller, is one of the seven dead. Miller was among the roughly 50 people attending a Saturday service held regularly at this Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield, Wisconsin, a Milwaukee suburb. Police say Ratzmann showed up about 20 minutes into the service.

CHIEF DANIEL TUSHAUS, BROOKFIELD POLICE DEPT.: He entered from the back of the room. He did not give any warning or provide any verbiage before firing a handgun. At this time, we believe 22 rounds were fired by the suspect. FREED: Four people died at the scene. Another three, including Randy Gregory, the church's pastor, died later at the hospital. Four more were wounded, including a 10-year-old girl.

Next, Ratzmann turned the gun on himself. Ratzmann was single and lived in the nearby town of New Berlin with his mother and sister. Police are focusing on two possible motives for the killings. They say Ratzmann may have been frustrated at the end of a job contract. They're also looking into word that he abruptly left a church service two weeks ago, apparently upset by something in the sermon. Police say a friend of Ratzmann's tried to intervene during the shooting, asking him why he was doing it. He never got an answer; in part, because the end came quickly. Investigators believe the entire episode, from the time Ratzmann entered the room to the time he took his own life, lasted just one minute.

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CAFFERTY: Jonathan Freed reporting from Brookfield, Wisconsin. The Living Church of God, on its Web site, calls the shooting a, quote, "terrible tragedy," and says they're cooperating fully with investigators.

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CAFFERTY: Magic Kingdom gets a new king a lot earlier than expected. Andy on Disney's big shakeup. He's "Minding Your Business."

O'BRIEN: Also Iraq's most wanted terrorist. Details of potential terror targets as well, restaurants, and theaters, and schools here in the U.S. A "Time" magazine exclusive is just ahead.

And this:

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SMITH: They could have heard your scream already. And if they did, the police are on the way, and I'm going to have to hold you hostage and I'm going to have to kill you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: More from the woman held hostage by Brian Nichols, the chilling or deal in her own words. Some of the most compelling tape ever, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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CAFFERTY: Here's a comforting thought -- American schools, movie theaters, restaurants in terrorist crosshairs. In our CNN Security Watch now, "Time" magazine reports that Iraq's top terrorist, al Qaeda associate Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, has his eye on so-called soft targets in America. "Time's" Adam Zagorin is one of the authors of this piece that is, as I mentioned, a bit discomforting. He joins us now from Washington D.C. Adam's what the origin of this latest warning?

ADAM ZAGORIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the warning was sent out in a restricted security bulletin across the United States last week, and it comes from a -- the interrogation of an associate, a member of the Zarqawi organization, who was taken into custody in Iraq by U.S. forces last year. He remains in the custody of the United States, and this particular word of -- account of what Zarqawi seems to be thinking about came from this interrogation, probably, in part, conducted last year and perhaps thereafter.

CAFFERTY: So obviously, it's considered to be pretty credible information. Tell us a little bit about what they mean when they say soft targets.

ZAGORIN: Soft targets is just a reference to targets that can't readily be defended. I guess you could defend a restaurant, or a movie theater or a school, but you probably couldn't defend all of them in a free country like the United States.

I should just add that although the information is considered credible enough to put out in this bulletin, U.S. authorities are not aware that there are sleeper cells or agents crawling around this country about to execute this particular action. They simply have this account from the interrogation, which indicates that the terrorists are thinking about this in some detail.

CAFFERTY: And we also had the report a couple weeks ago of the communication between Al Zarqawi and Osama bin Laden, suggesting that it was time for Al Zarqawi to be thinking about attacking targets inside the United States. You say they're not here now, but is there any reason to believe that they're coming? And if so, how could they get into the country? I think I know the answer, but...

ZAGORIN: Well, they -- Zarqawi has confined his activities of late, certainly, to Iraq. But according to this interrogation, he was speaking specifically about sending people in -- well, he spoke specifically of having someone purchase or acquire some way, a visa to Honduras, then travel through Mexico into the United States, which is a rather specific idea of how it ought to be done, which is another reason why, perhaps, when Condoleezza Rice was in Mexico late last week, she evoked the issue of border security and terrorist infiltration; specifically U.S. officials often do that, but I think it's an indication that this issue is on the minds of top people in this administration.

CAFFERTY: And of course the border between the United States and Mexico is notorious for leaking like a sieve and being a way for thousands of people each week to gain access to the United States. Any reason to believe this warning might lead to a tightening of the border restrictions down there?

ZAGORIN: I think it's an ongoing effort, when then-secretary Tom Ridge was in Mexico some months ago, last year, he had meetings specifically devoted to border security. I think that it's something that the U.S. recognizes, this vulnerability. Mexico is certainly aware of it, and I think there's some considerable vulnerability on the Canadian border, not because people aren't trying to do their job, but because you have a very long border in both cases.

CAFFERTY: Adam Zagorin of "Time" magazine, Adam thanks for being with us. Appreciate it. You can read the entire article in this week's edition of "Time" magazine. Stay tuned to CNN for the most reliable news about your security.

O'BRIEN: Well, Disney's embattled CEO is leaving earlier than planned. What drove that decision? Andy is "Minding Your Business," up next on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

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CAFFERTY: Disney has finally decided who's going to take over the mouse house. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Jack.

You know, some wags thought they'd never see the day when Michael Eisner would step down, because he's been fighting to keep his job for years. But now, apparently he will be stepping down, October 1, the company has announced. His longtime No. 2, Bob Iger, will be taking over the job. And the backstory is that Disney was looking to hire Meg Whitman away from eBay. She apparently turned the job down, and they turned to Mr. Iger.

Eisner, of course, has been under fire for years and years. There's Bob Iger. He's a guy who has been running the company and running the TV network for many years, and a less polarizing figure than Mr. Eisner, who had been under fire for years because of weak earnings, because of poor performance at ABC and the parks, and because of his huge pay.

The company turned around, though, recently. The stock has been up about 10 percent over the past year. It's nearly doubled over the past two years, but OK, here's what Iger has to do. First of all, Eisner made disparaging comments about him in that new book about him, so that's going to be a little bit tough. Critics are not mollified. They say he's just Eisner's No. 2 guy. And then he's got a lot of stuff to do in terms of restoring the relationship with Pixar and those sorts of things.

CAFFERTY: My question is, what kind of a message does he get when they say, well, we tried to hire somebody else, but they wouldn't take the job, so I guess we'll give it to you?

SERWER: Yes, well, that's going to be a really tough situation for him. And then, plus, his old boss was taking potshots at him in (INAUDIBLE) book.

CAFFERTY: Warm and fuzzy places, these corporations, aren't they?

SERWER: It continues to be.

CAFFERTY: Thanks, Andy.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

Time for the Question of the Day." Jeff Toobin sitting in for us, because of course legal question today.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Indeed. Good morning.

Brian Nichols, the suspect in the Friday's courthouse shootings in Atlanta, is likely to face a variety of charges, several of which could carry the death penalty. The evidence sure seems overwhelming. Nichols is accused of shooting a judge, a court reporter and two law- enforcement officers.

Our question today is simple, do the Atlanta courthouse shootings change your opinion of the death penalty? E-mail us as am@CNN.com.

O'BRIEN: I wonder if these are the kinds of cases that make people change their opinion, or if it's sort of a moral issue, that no matter sort of what the latest case is.

TOOBIN: What struck me as so interesting about this is that the momentum is generally is against the death penalty in the legal system at the moment. You have the Supreme Court striking down the death penalty for minors, for mentally retarded. But you have a case like this, where it seems to me a lot of people are going to want to say, this guy should be executed.

SERWER: Do you know how common the death penalty is in Georgia?

TOOBIN: It's not up there at the top. It's not up there with Texas, Florida, Virginia. But it has it, and they do execute people.

O'BRIEN: Really horrific shootings. I mean, we obviously, we broke the news Friday, at the end of our show, and then of course wrapping it up over the weekend. Shocking.

Jeff, thanks.

Well, there's much more AMERICAN MORNING, right after this short break. Ahead on "90-Second Pop," Jay Leno wins in court. He can tell all the Michael Jackson jokes he wants, but maybe he was better off losing. We'll explain.

Plus, "American Idol" gets rocked by controversy. Somebody's going home early, and not because he was voted off. That's later on AMERICAN MORNING.

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