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Nancy Grace
Man Confesses to Jessica Lunsford`s Murder; Terri Schiavo`s Feeding Tube Removed
Aired March 18, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, after weeks of hoping for the best but fearing the worst, the search for 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford, the third grade girl under the pink hat, is coming to an end. Convicted sex offender John Evander Couey who lived just across the street from Jessie, has confessed to the little girl`s murder.
Terri Schiavo`s family is now waiting for her to die despite all of their struggles. Ten years of litigation, even an 11th hour stay by the U.S. Congress. Schiavo`s feeding tube has been removed. She has been left to starve to death in her hospital bed.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, heart-wrenching developments in the Terri Schiavo case. Terri, a severely brain-damaged Florida woman whose husband and family have been fighting each other over her right to live or die. Even Congress stepped in to save Schiavo`s life after the courts refused to get involved.
But now, a Florida circuit court judge says Congress has no jurisdiction. Schiavo`s feeding tube has been removed, leaving her to starve to death.
But first, for three long weeks we all prayed and hoped Jessie would find her way back home. We all have. But now the harsh reality. John Evander Couey, the convicted sex offender who lived just across the street from Jessie without her family ever knowing he was within striking distance, has confessed to her murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Couey was polygraphed today and at the end of the polygraph he says, you don`t need to tell me the results, I already know what they are. Can I have the investigators come back in? And the investigators came back in. He apologized to the investigators for wasting their time and I`m now going to use the word that you probably have waited for me to use. John Couey admitted to abducting Jessica and subsequently taking her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us from San Francisco, our friend and colleague Marc Klaas. Marc lived through the same horrible experience when his daughter Polly was kidnapped and murdered. In Atlanta, defense attorney Chris Pixley, in New York, defense lawyer Alex Sanchez, but first, let`s go to Jeff Patterson with WFLA in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Jeff, what`s the latest?
JEFF PATTERSON, WFLA CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Nancy. Well, as you heard, John Couey was a person of interest yesterday. He was picked up in Richmond County, Georgia in Augusta by sheriff`s deputies there. He was taken in for questioning. He was being held on an absconding charge from here in Florida and they picked him up for questioning. They talked to him at length yesterday. Investigators from here in Citrus County. And then, today, the investigators here in Citrus County spoke with him again and an FBI polygraph expert came in and administered a polygraph test to him.
At the conclusion of that test, Couey told the FBI polygraph expert, "You don`t need to tell me the results, I know what they are, bring the investigators back in. I`ll talk with them and it`s at that time that he actually confessed to the murder.
GRACE: Jeff Patterson, how is it that they first got a hold of Couey to start with? I understand Georgia police in Savannah had him and then he got away.
PATTERSON: Well, there was no nationwide arrest warrant out for him at that time. The arrest warrant that they had for him was a violation of probation and so the authorities in Savannah, Georgia didn`t think they had the authority to hold him for any length of time. They picked him up, asked him a few brief questions, and let him go. Then he traveled by bus, we believe, to Augusta, Georgia. He actually registered in a Salvation Army there under his - Army home there, under his own name and so he was actually literally walking the streets of Augusta, Georgia when authorities came to pick him up.
He offered no resistance and in fact we are told that he was very cooperative through the entire process, answering all of the questions that were put to him. I did talk to a former employer of his here yesterday in Homosassa. He worked at a restaurant that`s within about a half mile of where I`m standing right now. Couey`s home that he was in is behind me and the Lunsford home, although you can`t see it in the dark, is a short distance away. They are within eyesight of each other, the restaurant another half mile or so up the road and the owner of the restaurant told me that he was a peculiar person.
He was a guy with a violent temper. On more than one occasion he had to separate him in a fight. On one of those occasions the guy he was trying to fight outweighed him by more than 100 pounds but he still got into a verbal altercation with him that almost broke down into a physical altercation. They fired him, though, because of his abnormal behavior. Basically he had written a love letter to a 15-year-old and the owner of the restaurant tell me that whenever he was interested in members of the opposite sex it was always in much younger girls.
He does have a lengthy criminal history. He has a number of previous convictions, breaking and entering, a lewd and lascivious charge from here in Florida, so the authorities here in Citrus County knew that he was a person of interest, somebody that they wanted to talk to, because, of course, they did a search, a scan of this area to find out who all of the sexual offenders were. Couey`s name came up but they were not able to contact him. It wasn`t until yesterday that investigators from here in Citrus County were actually able to talk with him and not until today, not until after that polygraph exam that he broke down and said, I`m sorry I`ve been wasting your time, I`ll tell you what happened, this is what happened.
And we believe now that he is giving a general location as to where they might be able to find Jessica`s body.
GRACE: Jeff Patterson, you mentioned that he had a breaking and entering and a lewd and lascivious behavior. Those are misdemeanors. So how did this guy end up a registered sex offender? Believe you me it was more than breaking and entering. They get you that charge.
PATTERSON: And that`s, I suppose, a question a lot of people around here are having, especially Jessica`s family. They said they had no idea that this guy was living literally within eyesight of their home. The other thing that remains unanswered, we still don`t have the details on is how he was able to get into the Lunsford home and have no obvious signs of breaking and entering. There were no traces, we`re told, inside of that home of anyone who had come in and Jessica had been through courses telling her about safety, stranger danger, things .
GRACE: Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, what`s a nine year old little girl going to do? Remember when they gave her lookout? I think she was four feet tall.
PATTERSON: Right.
GRACE: She can take classes `til she`s blue in the face and here`s a guy who gets in fights in restaurants and bars with people who outweigh him by 100 pounds, Jeff.
PATTERSON: Well, you don`t have to tell me. I`m a parent. I have a two year old and a four year old and this whole thing has put everyone in the community on alert. I`m very aware of the fact that some - an adult can come in and have their way but I`m just telling you that this guy had been as prepared as she could.
We`re told by - that authorities - that she had been prepared as well as she could to avoid strangers, to take care of herself. Somehow this guy got into the home and took her out.
GRACE: With us, with WFLA, Jeff Patterson. Jeff, please stay with us. Very quickly, before we go to break, Marc Klaas, second verse, same as the first. Every time we think we`ve made a little progress with Amber Alerts, with all the ways to find kids with chips, with detectors, all the training, something like this happens with a registered sex offender right across the street.
MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION FOR CHILDREN: Well, you know, Nancy, people have to take advantage of Megan`s Law. They have to go on and find out who the individuals are living in their community.
GRACE: Marc. Marc. The people live in a trailer park. They don`t have a Dell computer or a $1700 Apple. How .
KLAAS: Nancy, when Polly was kidnapped 12 years ago, the first president of the Polly Klaas Foundation with which I was affiliated at that time was a sex offender. They didn`t even have to register at that time. We`ve really come a long way. I mean, this is about putting information in the hands of the public so that they can use it. This is the best way that we have of putting that information in people`s hands.
GRACE: Marc, I know you`re right but it is a bitter pill to swallow tonight. All the coulda, woulda, shoulda. Everybody, we`ll be right back, as you know, the search for Jessie Lunsford is coming to an end. A convicted and registered sex offender has confessed to her murder. Now it`s a matter of finding the little girl`s body. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish I could give you all the figures. We`re in the process of talking with our state attorney here. He is not going anywhere up there. He is on a no bond and we will bring him back once we do everything corrective and we`ve talked about building a case and this is not a time to sing anybody`s praises, but I will tell you that we have built a case, a very methodical case and I`ve got my man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Couey was polygraphed today and at the end of the polygraph he said that you don`t need to tell me the results, I already know what they are, could I have the investigators come back in? And the investigators came back in. He apologized to the investigators for wasting their time and I`m now going to use the word that you probably have waited for me to use. John Couey admitted to abducting Jessica and subsequently taking her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody, thank you for being with us. It is a very dark night. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. Let me go straight to CNN reporter there in Homosassa Springs, Florida, Sara Dorsey is with us. Sara, thank you for being with us and tell me what`s going on around Couey`s residence?
SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, this is a search for the body of missing nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford. This is probably the worst search that this community has had to make so far because all of the others that had been planned at least came with a little hope. The Citrus County sheriff now, though, Nancy, is saying they`re probably not looking to bring this little girl alive. After the confession they are now searching just behind the home, this is a trailer that John Couey was living in. Living in and not registered under, I might add. There are lights that go out every once in a while. You`ll see a flashlight and the deputies behind there.
They are searching for the body in the general area that John Couey gave to them.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, after every case, you and I go back and forth about what can we do, what can we do to stop this from happening. Here a registered sex offender has left where he was registered, was basically AWOL, where he was not supposed to be and nothing was done. Even if Jessie`s family had the wherewithal to get a computer, to be computer literate, to be online and look up sex offenders, they wouldn`t have known.
So what`s the answer - Marc, listen, you`ve been there. You`ve lost your daughter, Polly. You`ve had years to think about it.
KLAAS: There are certain things that can be done, Nancy, and certainly we`ll never stop predation. We`re never going to be able to get a handle on these guys the way we want to and you`re exactly right, a determined predator will have his way with a young child absolutely every time but what we can do, particularly with these sex offender databases is that if we have to let these creatures back onto the street, we have to be able to force compliance. You force compliance by making the penalties for failure to comply stiff enough so that they dare not do what Couey did.
GRACE: So - Marc. Marc.
KLAAS: Yeah.
GRACE: We were just showing a shot of Couey living it up in a bar, drinking and smoking.
KLAAS: You did?
GRACE: Yeah, I don`t know if you can see it, but what is this guy doing out living it up - If he was a registered sex offender, Marc, that means he had a violent sex crime. I understand it was back in `91. I don`t know what the hey he is doing. Another issue, Chris Pixley, if this guy hadn`t taken a polygraph and though for sure that they had him, Chris, he probably never would have confessed.
CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah. He may never have confessed, Nancy, and of course, the real problem is why, as you pointed out, was he in this position in the first place? Of course, we can`t - We`re still finding out what the basis of this predator`s background is. We know that he has a long criminal record spanning more than 30 years. The real question is what was he doing living 150 yards away from Jessica Lunsford. We`re told that his actual residence that he`s required by law to be staying in was some two miles away.
So there`s many questions in this case and of course, the good news is that he was allowed to be held - was arrested by warrant for having left Florida State. If they hadn`t been able to hold him and grill him for four hours yesterday we may never have gotten this confession.
GRACE: Jeff Patterson is with us, WFLA reporter in Homosassa. Jeff. What are they doing now? Are they digging? Is there a body of water next to his home? I mean, where is Jessie?
PATTERSON: This is a very rural area. Four miles from a state preserve. There is about 3,000 acres of possibility out there so there is a wide range. The question is how much access does Couey have to a vehicle and where could he have taken her and we are told by the sheriff that he has given them some information about the general area where she`s located.
But on the issue of the computer that you were just talking about, the Lunsford family did in fact have a computer that they had recently purchased and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement does have a sexual offender list on there. If you go on to there Web site you can pull up your ZIP code here in Florida and find out where the registered sexual offenders live around you and around this area there were at least 11 sexual offenders .
GRACE: Good Lord!
PATTERSON: . registered on the FDLA list. So those are the people that they had been looking at from the very beginning. But I can tell you because the computer was a possibility from the get-go here in the Lunsford case. They actually seized it as evidence to find out if Jessica had perhaps gone online to communicate with somebody and we`re told that the only thing that she had looked up by herself was the Florida Comprehensive Aptitude Test, the FCAT here in Florida. It`s a big concern for people her age to take and to pass and that`s the only Web site that she had looked at and she had also gone through an Internet training course on safety.
So this girl was pretty well-prepared, but like you said, she`s a nine-year-old and she came up against a predator.
GRACE: I`m just wondering where he put her body. When we come back, we`ll go straight back out not only to Jeff Patterson but Sara Dorsey, CNN reporter who is joining us there.
Now to trial tracking, a quadruple killing in Mariana, Florida. Investigators say they`ve got little to go on in the killing of Danielle Baker, just 19 years old with three little boys. A two year old girl found unharmed in the apartment. Cops still don`t know - will announce how the victims were killed. The boys, catch this, were three years old, one year old and just three weeks. Investigators are interviewing two men, neither in custody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: You are seeing a live shot. We are in Homosassa, Florida. These people have gathered outside little Jessie`s home. They`re having a vigil for the little nine-year old girl now believed to be dead. For three weeks we have waited as one of the biggest manhunts in Florida history has gone down and tonight we learn that Jessie is dead.
Welcome back everybody. I am Nancy Grace and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. I have always said the courtroom is no place for the weak kneed and this is certainly no exception. Let`s go straight back out to Sara Dorsey. Sara, I was speaking with Jeff Patterson a few moments ago, asking were they digging for the little girl, is she buried, is she in a body of water, do we have any idea?
DORSEY: No, Nancy, they`re not giving any details. Of course, the sheriff says that`s part of the investigation. They do tell us that they have a general area to search in and just over my shoulder you can see a light back there. That`s directly behind the home that Mr. Couey was staying in. That`s where they`re looking right now. We can`t tell if they`re digging but we`re seeing a lot of flashlights and they have a large light set up, so we know they`re looking in that general area right now.
GRACE: With me in New York, criminal defense attorney Alex Sanchez. You know, Alex, you and I talked off camera but when I learned that they had taken items to be tested out of Couey`s home, I don`t care what they were saying about it, he`s just a person of interest, BS. When you start having agents, homicide detectives take items out of your home for forensic testing, OK, you`re in trouble, Alex.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, using the term, "person of interest" to me basically says, "listen, we have some evidence against this guy or we believe he is responsible for this and they`re targeting their information against him and they`re going after him. You know, the case is very distressing. I`m looking at the picture of that search. Where are the dogs? Where are the tracker dogs? And how come they didn`t get tracker dogs there before to search this place?
GRACE: Hold on. Let me - that`s a good point. Let me go back to Sara. Sara, as I recall, there have been tracker dogs and shortly after - Alex is correctly pointing out, shortly after they brought in the tracker dogs, they then - see that tape, Alex? They cordoned off about three quarters of a mile circumference around the home after bringing in the tracking dogs, which immediately said to me that they think her body is there.
Very quickly to Marc Klaas. Marc, you and I know it. I don`t care what some defense attorney or sociologist or psychologist says, child molesters cannot be cured. They can`t be cured. I don`t know why they get out of jail.
KLAAS: Never in the history of the world has either a pedophile nor a psychopath been cured. These are the kind of people that we`re trying to target with things like Amber Alerts as a response or Megan`s Law types of legislations. I`ll tell you how to get this guy. You want to find out where Jessie is? I`ll tell you exactly what to do. This guy has been negotiating for his life from the moment he apologized for wasting the time of the detectives. All they have to do is tell them that if he doesn`t give up this little girls` body, they`ll throw him in a general population, I guarantee it, they`ll have her body within 15 minutes.
GRACE: GP? GP? General population? Not GP, DP. Death penalty.
KLAAS: No, before that. I mean right now. I mean right now.
GRACE: You mean right now? Don`t even talk to me about a life sentence.
KLAAS: I mean right now. You throw him in a cell with a bunch of hardened criminals and this will be over in no time, one way or another.
GRACE: You know, Chris, I`ve got one minute left. The reality is unless he gives a full confession or they find forensics, the police are in trouble because a polygraph means nothing. That will not come into court.
PIXLEY: That`s right. It won`t be admissible. His defense attorney will oppose that and unless it`s agreed to by all counsel, it won`t be allowed in. But of course here there is more to this case already if they did have a four hour discussion with him you have to believe that they got a lot more information from him than mere confession.
GRACE: Can`t you just see some judge ruling out the confession? Can`t you just see it?
PIXLEY: Absolutely. He may not have waived his rights. There is always the argument that it is coerced but I want to reference .
GRACE: I`ve got 30 seconds.
PIXLEY: . something that Marc said. This is very good point that Marc makes about the general population because even though this will be death penalty eligible, he will not make it in the general population if he is convicted.
GRACE: No way. Quick break. As you know, we want desperately here to find missing people. Take a look at Gabriela West, the seven year old from Valley Stream, New York, missing since October 2000. Look at this girl. If you have any information on Gabriela, please call NCMA, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. 1-800-THE-LOST. Please help us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts. We bring you up to speed now with your headline prime newsbreak. Authorities say a convicted sex offender has confessed to kidnapping and murdering Jessica Lunsford. John Couey was arrested in Georgia yesterday on an unrelated charge. He had been living with relatives across the street from the nine year-old girl. Investigators believe now he kidnapped Lunsford about three weeks ago.
Former Connecticut governor John Roland will report to prison on April 1st. The three term Republican was sentenced today to one year and one day in federal prison for corruption. Roland has admitted to accepting trips and improvements to his home in exchange for political favors.
Martha Stewart might be able to plant that spring garden after all. A federal appeals court says the judge in the Martha Stewart case can considering altering her sentence. Stewart`s lawyers are expecting to request ending her house arrest immediately. Stewart spent five months in prison and is now under house arrest for lying about a stock deal. That is the news for now. I`m Thomas Roberts. We`ll take you back for more of Nancy Grace.
GRACE: After three weeks of searching, this man allegedly has confessed to kidnapping and killing nine year old Jessica Lunsford, the third grader about four feet tall, usually under a pink hat.
Let me go straight back out to Sara Dorsey. She is standing by at Homosassa, Florida. Sara, I know I just heard in my ear from Elizabeth that there is no official report but there is activity right behind you. What`s happening?
DORSEY: That`s a crime scene investigation that pulled up just beyond that trailer where Mr. Couey was staying. We`re seeing life and movement back there and I`ll tell you also just behind our camera there are a number of people lined up with candles in an impromptu vigil for Jessica. This is a community let down, Nancy. They came out, four and 500 people when they first came to search for her. This is only a community of a couple thousand people and they always had hope that they were going to be able to bring this little girl alive and now, of course, following this confession it doesn`t look like it`s going to be the case and the search now is for her body, not to bring her home safely.
GRACE: Joining us now, CNN reporter Susan Candiotti. Now, Susan is in Georgia, Augusta, Georgia, where Evander, John Evander Couey is. Hello, friend. Thank you for making it on to the show tonight. What can you tell me?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Nancy.
Well it`s been quite a day here. It began when investigators returned to the jail for a second day of questioning with John Couey, so this is how it`s been unfolding. They interviewed him for, I would say, around 11 hours over the course of two days. Now I hope you know about the history of what you`re looking at, that videotape. This was shot by a television station in Augusta, Georgia, WAGT, who on Wednesday of this week just happened to be shooting a story, a feature story, about people smoking in bar and don`t you know it was .
GRACE: There he is.
CANDIOTTI: . John Couey on that videotape. Now according to police this videotape would have been shot at a time, according to authorities nearly three weeks, three weeks after, if the confessions is to be believe that he killed Jessica Lunsford and he was staying at a homeless shelter for just a couple of days, as you`ll recall, after someone at the shelter recognized him after his photograph was put out over the news and over the Internet.
So they`ve been talking to him for two days and Nancy, throughout they said this man was cooperative, he was being very helpful to them and in fact, investigators said at one point today, sources did, that so far they hadn`t been learning much of anything that was really moving the investigation forward and then, obviously, according to authorities, their came a turn. They said that this afternoon after he had been given a polygraph, that he told authorities, you know, I apologize. He reportedly said, you don`t have to wait for the results. I know what you want to hear. That`s what Sheriff Dawsy said back in Florida and at that time, the sheriff said, he confessed.
I talked to investigators as they left here tonight and I said, how would you characterize what happened at that time? And they said that Couey broke down and cried.
GRACE: He cried?
CANDIOTTI: That`s what they said.
GRACE: OK. You know what? Marc Klaas, you know what`s going on right now? He`s bargaining. He`s bargaining. He doesn`t want to face the Florida death penalty. Now, you know, Marc. Florida has had what they call Ol` Sparky, the electric chair, for many, many years. It caught somebody on fire, no more Ol` Sparky. No more. It`s going to be lethal injection if the state seeks the death penalty.
Marc Klaas, anything we can learn tonight?
KLAAS: Well, certainly just once again that evil exists and I think we have to expand our databases, we have to close down the borders on these databases, we have to have stronger sentences and we shouldn`t let sex offenders plea bargain. It`s the same old stuff that we`ve all been saying for years and years, Nancy. Unfortunately the lobby for criminality seems to be stronger than the desire of those to stop criminality.
GRACE: OK. I want to thank my panel that was here tonight on behalf of the developments in the Jessie Lunsford case. I want to thank Sara Dorsey, there in Homosassa right now there is apparently digging or some type of activity right behind Sara. She`ll keep you updated here on Headline and on CNN. Good night, friend.
To Susan Candiotti, our friend their in Augusta. Thank you, dear. To Marc Klaas, victims` advocate and father of little Polly who was kidnapped and murdered. Thank you.
Jeff Patterson, WFLA thank you friend. Let`s switch gears quickly.
Another story in the news tonight. Today doctors disconnected the feeding tube of Terri Schiavo. Now Washington lawyers are fighting a last minute battle to prolong the severely brain damaged woman`s life. It will be a matter of weeks before she starves to death in her hospital bed. Indinedin (ph) Florida, Michael Schiavo, that`s Terri`s husband is with us. George Felos. Sir. Explain to us why the feeding tube - she`s not on life support, she`s not on life support, she`s on a feeding tube. Explain to us why the feeding tube will be removed and Terri will starve to death.
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO`S ATTORNEY: Well, there are a couple of misapprehensions you have there, Nancy.
GRACE: OK.
FELOS: Number one, artificial feeding through a tube inserted through a hole in your stomach is medical treatment and artificial life support under the law in every state.
GRACE: Is she on a ventilator?
FELOS: She is not on a ventilator. And patients have rights in every state to refuse artificial feeding. Number one. The second thing is Terri will not starve to death. The medical evidence was overwhelming and unrebutted that when this happens as it does every day in the United States, a patient dies in seven to 14 days from electrolyte imbalance when artificial provision of nutrition and hydration stops the blood .
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
FELOS: The blood chemistry really becomes upset and patients slowly fade away .
GRACE: Sir. Sir. Sir.
FELOS: . into a painless death.
GRACE: I`m not arguing with you about this, I`m on the fence about the whole thing but when you say she`s not starving to death but she doesn`t have electrolytes and nutrition, that sounds like lawyer talk for starving to death.
FELOS: No it`s not. It`s a medical fact that if Terri Schiavo actually starved to death, died from lack of nutrition, that process would take probably months. You and I could live on water for months .
GRACE: OK.
FELOS: She`s going to die within seven to 10 days.
GRACE: Here is my question for you. Now you call it nutritional deprivement (sic), I call it starvation, but what I want to talk about for a moment is your client, Terri`s husband. I`m on the fence. I know he`s got a whole nother (sic) family, he`s got a whole another woman that he met after Terri went ill. Is it true that he was offered about a million bucks to back off this case and let the parents take over?
FELOS: He was offered about a million dollars just the other week. A week before that we received a call from a lawyer, it appeared to be bona fide, who had a client that offered Michael $10 million to resign as guardian but the fact is that Mr. Schiavo has always said this case is not about money, it`s about his wife`s wishes and carrying out those wishes and no amount of money is going to make him turn his back on his wife and I want to add, too, Nancy that the court has made it very clear that even if Michael were not Terri`s guardian, whomever her guardian would be would be required to removed the life support because that`s what`s been ordered by the court.
The guardian has no discretion here.
GRACE: OK. With us is Terri Schiavo`s husband Michael whose lawyer is with us tonight. I don`t know if we`re parsing words, what the truth is, but he`s going to join us back along with our panel. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is very much aware of her surroundings. She can discriminate between people. She is partially blind, so when you look at the videos you`ll notice that a lot of times she looks sort of off into space and when her mother comes by she suddenly will light up and that`s because she can only see about 18 inches in front of her but I asked her to do different things. She squeezed each hand independently, do different motions with her arms and legs. Obviously she can follow (UNINTELLIGIBLE), she understands English. She can really do quite a bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael just called me a little while ago and I believe the tube was removed. He was pretty hard to understand because he was pretty emotional and upset and crying about it and he still loves her. That was the love of his life. And it`s hard - people think he`s a big ogre and everything else but he`s just a big teddy bear. I think the bigger they are the softer they are, but he`s just very emotional about the whole thing now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. As you know by now, life support - actually, a feeding tube, not life support, not a ventilator, but a feeding tube has been removed from a young woman in Florida, Terri Schiavo. She will die within about 14 days if there is no intervention. Her husband has the legal right to make this decision. Yes he has moved on in life, he is with another woman. He has a family. Her family is fighting desperately for her to live. I want to go to the president of the Baptist Theological Seminary, Albert Mohler.
Sir, thank you for being with us. I am twisted and torn over this. My whole family says yes, take the life support off me, take away the feeding tube. I don`t want to live that way. I, on the other hand, want to dig in and lay their and hope for a miracle. What are your thoughts?
ALBERT MOHLER, PRESIDENT, BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, I think what happened at 1:45 this afternoon is one of the most tragic cases of medical disaster that I can imagine. Because what`s happened here is we have a woman who is not on a ventilator, she is breathing on her own, she is in a state of diminished consciousness but she is by no means brain dead. She has parents who want to take care of her and yet she has had her feeding tube removed and she is going to die - regardless of how you want to parse the words, she is going to die of lack of nutrition, starvation. What has happened here is that we have a group of people, including medical and legal authorities, who have, driven by their own agenda just decided that persons in this kind of situation are not human beings deserving of the same kind of protection given to the rest of us.
GRACE: Well, I can tell you this much, Mr. Mohler, I don`t know what`s right or wrong here. Everybody, even the people I love are all divided right down the middle. But I know this much. I don`t want some judge sitting 700 miles away on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals bench telling me to do with my loved one`s life. Now to me, that`s a problem.
MOHLER: Now what you have in this society is issues like this are eventually and almost inevitably litigated because the courts have been given the authority to make these decisions and frankly I don`t want .
GRACE: No!
MOHLER: . any judge making this decision if it means taking away my life or the life of my loved one.
GRACE: You know what? We need a shrink. Let`s go to psychologist Dr. Michael Nuccitelli. Michael, weigh in.
MICHAEL NUCCITELLI, PSYCHOLOGIST: How would you like me to weigh in? Basically what this comes down to is it comes down to euthanasia and the right to die and the mother and the father and the husband that are fighting with one another, but what it comes down to is this young lady, if she had a moment, she had 30 seconds, 45 seconds of lucidia (ph), it`s what do you think that she would say? Would she say pull the tube or would she say, "I want to survive in this dilapidated state. So that`s what it comes down to.
GRACE: Wait. Wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait. When you say dilapidated, her parents don`t necessarily agree with you that she is dilapidated. They visit her, they take care of her. Although, although her husband has visited her, as well.
Very quickly to John Zarrella. John, break it down for me. What`s happening.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESONDENT: Well, now what`s happening is, of course, as we all know, her parents have said all along, I interviewed them a few weeks ago, have insisted that they don`t believe that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state. That has been their contention and they have wanted custody and when I have interviewed them they have said, look, we want that, we would like that but Michael would not give that to us.
But as you heard Mr. Felos say a few minutes ago, that just wouldn`t be in the cards anyway, it wouldn`t matter who was the guardian. They would have to carry out the letter of the law. Now today, Nancy, as we know, it`s not over. Let`s get that out and that hasn`t been expressed yet. This is not over by any stretch of the imagination.
GRACE: Yeah. Well. Hey. John. We all had supper tonight so when we say it`s not over, Terri Schiavo`s feeding tube has been removed. With us there in Florida is CNN reporter, you know him well, John Zarrella. Very quickly to Chris Pixley. Now this is scary. Congress is getting involved. Now that`s a surefire recipe for disaster. How do the courts and Congress fit into this story?
PIXLEY: Well, it`s a separation of powers issue, Nancy. I don`t think Congress does fit into this story.
GRACE: You`re talking like a lawyer.
PIXLEY: Well, to put it simply, this is an abuse of power by Congress. They have not passed any law dealing with the removal of life sustaining measures and so to that effect, if a judge has put in place an order that is legal, that doesn`t violate the law, they have absolutely no basis .
GRACE: Congress is out of line.
PIXLEY: . for overruling it. Congress will be out of it. It doesn`t matter that there`s a congressional subpoena. Judges quash subpoenas on a regular basis.
GRACE: I find it very difficult to believe that that bunch in Washington can agree on anything. I want to report to you that earlier with us was Michael Schiavo but he didn`t want to answer any questions and got up and walked up, leaving his lawyer on the hot seat. I`ll go straight back to his lawyer. His name is George .
FELOS: Hold on a second Nancy, that`s not true that Mr. Schiavo didn`t want to answer questions.
GRACE: Where did he go?
FELOS: He did not know until he sat down today and listened to the first half hour of this show that Jessica Lunsford had died. His wife is in his death process. When he heard that he lost his emotional composure. It has nothing to do with facing the cameras or answering questions. So I just want to straighten that out.
GRACE: OK. Now that you`ve straightened that out, maybe you can straighten out your take on how exactly Terri Schiavo is going to die. I call it starving to death. Look, I`m not arguing that families have a right to remove people from life support, them laying there for years on end, but this is not a ventilator, this is just feeding a woman.
FELOS: But Nancy, you don`t have a right to make a choice for Terri Schiavo. She said to her husband, to her best friend Joan, to her brother in law, I don`t want to be kept on feeding tubes, nothing artificial for me. You said to Michael, if I was in a catastrophic situation like that, please don`t keep me alive like that. She has no cerebral cortex. It`s gone. Where her thinking brain used to be is a CAT scan that shows a black whole filled with water.
GRACE: George. George. George. I got to say I disagree with you but I respect what you`re doing for your client. Apparently if he turned down a million bucks to butt out, this not about money. I don`t know what it`s about but sir, thank you for taking his side and being with us tonight.
FELOS: And people should call their congressmen and senators and say stay out of Terri`s life and let her die in peace.
GRACE: Good luck calling Congress. Sir, I`ve got to go to break but thank you, George Felos .
FELOS: You`re welcome.
GRACE: For being with us - Schiavo - quickly, to trial tracking. You are looking a live shot of Scott Peterson`s new condo, AKA San Quentin Prison. He is on day to on death row as he waits for execution. Got a long wait. If he looks out his cell, he can see the San Francisco Bay where he dumped the bodies of his wife, Laci and unborn son, Connor.
Let me thank all my guests. You met them earlier. Marc Klaas, Chris Pixley, Alex Sanchez, Jeff Patterson, Susan Candiotti, Sara Dorsey, John Zarrella, Albert Mohler, Michael Nuccitelli, George Felos - did I say Chris Pixley? Chris Pixley too.
News is next for some of you. Remember, we bring all the latest from courtrooms across the country three to four, three to five, on CLOSING ARGUMENTS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Man, what a week in America`s courtrooms. It`s Friday night. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people who have touched all of our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: The day a judge can be shot dead on the bench is a sad day for all of us, not just the judge, Judge Roland Barnes, but his court reporter.
There`s a shot of Julie and that`s the way I will always remember her.
A California judge sentenced Scott Peterson to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He killed our grandson and our daughter. Scott got what he deserved.
GRACE: The same sentence Peterson gave his own wife, Laci and their unborn baby boy, Connor.
A stunning end to the Robert Blake murder trial and I mean stunning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty of the crime of first degree murder of Bonny Lee Bakley.
HOLLY GAWRON, DAUGHTER OF BONNY LEE BAKLEY: I lost my mother and I have to continue to suffer every day.
GRACE: The search for nine year old Jessie Lunsford, the third grade girl under the pink hat is coming to an end. Convicted sex offender John Evander Couey who was just across the street from Jessie has confessed to the little girl`s murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have told you that we have built a case, a very methodical case and I`ve got my man.
GRACE: The Idaho jury found 18 year old Sara Johnson guilty of murder one. Murder in cold blood.
It`s all about the shooting death of her own parents.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Families in the news this week. Families from Mark Lunsford, remember him looking for his little girl every night to Terri Schiavo`s parents fighting to save their girls life to Sara Johnson, the trial of the 16 year old girl who murdered her parents. Families.
Before we sign off I want to meet mine. They`re here tonight. Mack and Elizabeth. My mom and dad. Thank you for being with us this week to all my guests but especially tonight for being with us and inviting us into your home. Good night, friend.
END
Aired March 18, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, after weeks of hoping for the best but fearing the worst, the search for 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford, the third grade girl under the pink hat, is coming to an end. Convicted sex offender John Evander Couey who lived just across the street from Jessie, has confessed to the little girl`s murder.
Terri Schiavo`s family is now waiting for her to die despite all of their struggles. Ten years of litigation, even an 11th hour stay by the U.S. Congress. Schiavo`s feeding tube has been removed. She has been left to starve to death in her hospital bed.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, heart-wrenching developments in the Terri Schiavo case. Terri, a severely brain-damaged Florida woman whose husband and family have been fighting each other over her right to live or die. Even Congress stepped in to save Schiavo`s life after the courts refused to get involved.
But now, a Florida circuit court judge says Congress has no jurisdiction. Schiavo`s feeding tube has been removed, leaving her to starve to death.
But first, for three long weeks we all prayed and hoped Jessie would find her way back home. We all have. But now the harsh reality. John Evander Couey, the convicted sex offender who lived just across the street from Jessie without her family ever knowing he was within striking distance, has confessed to her murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Couey was polygraphed today and at the end of the polygraph he says, you don`t need to tell me the results, I already know what they are. Can I have the investigators come back in? And the investigators came back in. He apologized to the investigators for wasting their time and I`m now going to use the word that you probably have waited for me to use. John Couey admitted to abducting Jessica and subsequently taking her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us from San Francisco, our friend and colleague Marc Klaas. Marc lived through the same horrible experience when his daughter Polly was kidnapped and murdered. In Atlanta, defense attorney Chris Pixley, in New York, defense lawyer Alex Sanchez, but first, let`s go to Jeff Patterson with WFLA in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Jeff, what`s the latest?
JEFF PATTERSON, WFLA CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Nancy. Well, as you heard, John Couey was a person of interest yesterday. He was picked up in Richmond County, Georgia in Augusta by sheriff`s deputies there. He was taken in for questioning. He was being held on an absconding charge from here in Florida and they picked him up for questioning. They talked to him at length yesterday. Investigators from here in Citrus County. And then, today, the investigators here in Citrus County spoke with him again and an FBI polygraph expert came in and administered a polygraph test to him.
At the conclusion of that test, Couey told the FBI polygraph expert, "You don`t need to tell me the results, I know what they are, bring the investigators back in. I`ll talk with them and it`s at that time that he actually confessed to the murder.
GRACE: Jeff Patterson, how is it that they first got a hold of Couey to start with? I understand Georgia police in Savannah had him and then he got away.
PATTERSON: Well, there was no nationwide arrest warrant out for him at that time. The arrest warrant that they had for him was a violation of probation and so the authorities in Savannah, Georgia didn`t think they had the authority to hold him for any length of time. They picked him up, asked him a few brief questions, and let him go. Then he traveled by bus, we believe, to Augusta, Georgia. He actually registered in a Salvation Army there under his - Army home there, under his own name and so he was actually literally walking the streets of Augusta, Georgia when authorities came to pick him up.
He offered no resistance and in fact we are told that he was very cooperative through the entire process, answering all of the questions that were put to him. I did talk to a former employer of his here yesterday in Homosassa. He worked at a restaurant that`s within about a half mile of where I`m standing right now. Couey`s home that he was in is behind me and the Lunsford home, although you can`t see it in the dark, is a short distance away. They are within eyesight of each other, the restaurant another half mile or so up the road and the owner of the restaurant told me that he was a peculiar person.
He was a guy with a violent temper. On more than one occasion he had to separate him in a fight. On one of those occasions the guy he was trying to fight outweighed him by more than 100 pounds but he still got into a verbal altercation with him that almost broke down into a physical altercation. They fired him, though, because of his abnormal behavior. Basically he had written a love letter to a 15-year-old and the owner of the restaurant tell me that whenever he was interested in members of the opposite sex it was always in much younger girls.
He does have a lengthy criminal history. He has a number of previous convictions, breaking and entering, a lewd and lascivious charge from here in Florida, so the authorities here in Citrus County knew that he was a person of interest, somebody that they wanted to talk to, because, of course, they did a search, a scan of this area to find out who all of the sexual offenders were. Couey`s name came up but they were not able to contact him. It wasn`t until yesterday that investigators from here in Citrus County were actually able to talk with him and not until today, not until after that polygraph exam that he broke down and said, I`m sorry I`ve been wasting your time, I`ll tell you what happened, this is what happened.
And we believe now that he is giving a general location as to where they might be able to find Jessica`s body.
GRACE: Jeff Patterson, you mentioned that he had a breaking and entering and a lewd and lascivious behavior. Those are misdemeanors. So how did this guy end up a registered sex offender? Believe you me it was more than breaking and entering. They get you that charge.
PATTERSON: And that`s, I suppose, a question a lot of people around here are having, especially Jessica`s family. They said they had no idea that this guy was living literally within eyesight of their home. The other thing that remains unanswered, we still don`t have the details on is how he was able to get into the Lunsford home and have no obvious signs of breaking and entering. There were no traces, we`re told, inside of that home of anyone who had come in and Jessica had been through courses telling her about safety, stranger danger, things .
GRACE: Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, what`s a nine year old little girl going to do? Remember when they gave her lookout? I think she was four feet tall.
PATTERSON: Right.
GRACE: She can take classes `til she`s blue in the face and here`s a guy who gets in fights in restaurants and bars with people who outweigh him by 100 pounds, Jeff.
PATTERSON: Well, you don`t have to tell me. I`m a parent. I have a two year old and a four year old and this whole thing has put everyone in the community on alert. I`m very aware of the fact that some - an adult can come in and have their way but I`m just telling you that this guy had been as prepared as she could.
We`re told by - that authorities - that she had been prepared as well as she could to avoid strangers, to take care of herself. Somehow this guy got into the home and took her out.
GRACE: With us, with WFLA, Jeff Patterson. Jeff, please stay with us. Very quickly, before we go to break, Marc Klaas, second verse, same as the first. Every time we think we`ve made a little progress with Amber Alerts, with all the ways to find kids with chips, with detectors, all the training, something like this happens with a registered sex offender right across the street.
MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION FOR CHILDREN: Well, you know, Nancy, people have to take advantage of Megan`s Law. They have to go on and find out who the individuals are living in their community.
GRACE: Marc. Marc. The people live in a trailer park. They don`t have a Dell computer or a $1700 Apple. How .
KLAAS: Nancy, when Polly was kidnapped 12 years ago, the first president of the Polly Klaas Foundation with which I was affiliated at that time was a sex offender. They didn`t even have to register at that time. We`ve really come a long way. I mean, this is about putting information in the hands of the public so that they can use it. This is the best way that we have of putting that information in people`s hands.
GRACE: Marc, I know you`re right but it is a bitter pill to swallow tonight. All the coulda, woulda, shoulda. Everybody, we`ll be right back, as you know, the search for Jessie Lunsford is coming to an end. A convicted and registered sex offender has confessed to her murder. Now it`s a matter of finding the little girl`s body. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish I could give you all the figures. We`re in the process of talking with our state attorney here. He is not going anywhere up there. He is on a no bond and we will bring him back once we do everything corrective and we`ve talked about building a case and this is not a time to sing anybody`s praises, but I will tell you that we have built a case, a very methodical case and I`ve got my man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Couey was polygraphed today and at the end of the polygraph he said that you don`t need to tell me the results, I already know what they are, could I have the investigators come back in? And the investigators came back in. He apologized to the investigators for wasting their time and I`m now going to use the word that you probably have waited for me to use. John Couey admitted to abducting Jessica and subsequently taking her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody, thank you for being with us. It is a very dark night. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. Let me go straight to CNN reporter there in Homosassa Springs, Florida, Sara Dorsey is with us. Sara, thank you for being with us and tell me what`s going on around Couey`s residence?
SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, this is a search for the body of missing nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford. This is probably the worst search that this community has had to make so far because all of the others that had been planned at least came with a little hope. The Citrus County sheriff now, though, Nancy, is saying they`re probably not looking to bring this little girl alive. After the confession they are now searching just behind the home, this is a trailer that John Couey was living in. Living in and not registered under, I might add. There are lights that go out every once in a while. You`ll see a flashlight and the deputies behind there.
They are searching for the body in the general area that John Couey gave to them.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, after every case, you and I go back and forth about what can we do, what can we do to stop this from happening. Here a registered sex offender has left where he was registered, was basically AWOL, where he was not supposed to be and nothing was done. Even if Jessie`s family had the wherewithal to get a computer, to be computer literate, to be online and look up sex offenders, they wouldn`t have known.
So what`s the answer - Marc, listen, you`ve been there. You`ve lost your daughter, Polly. You`ve had years to think about it.
KLAAS: There are certain things that can be done, Nancy, and certainly we`ll never stop predation. We`re never going to be able to get a handle on these guys the way we want to and you`re exactly right, a determined predator will have his way with a young child absolutely every time but what we can do, particularly with these sex offender databases is that if we have to let these creatures back onto the street, we have to be able to force compliance. You force compliance by making the penalties for failure to comply stiff enough so that they dare not do what Couey did.
GRACE: So - Marc. Marc.
KLAAS: Yeah.
GRACE: We were just showing a shot of Couey living it up in a bar, drinking and smoking.
KLAAS: You did?
GRACE: Yeah, I don`t know if you can see it, but what is this guy doing out living it up - If he was a registered sex offender, Marc, that means he had a violent sex crime. I understand it was back in `91. I don`t know what the hey he is doing. Another issue, Chris Pixley, if this guy hadn`t taken a polygraph and though for sure that they had him, Chris, he probably never would have confessed.
CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah. He may never have confessed, Nancy, and of course, the real problem is why, as you pointed out, was he in this position in the first place? Of course, we can`t - We`re still finding out what the basis of this predator`s background is. We know that he has a long criminal record spanning more than 30 years. The real question is what was he doing living 150 yards away from Jessica Lunsford. We`re told that his actual residence that he`s required by law to be staying in was some two miles away.
So there`s many questions in this case and of course, the good news is that he was allowed to be held - was arrested by warrant for having left Florida State. If they hadn`t been able to hold him and grill him for four hours yesterday we may never have gotten this confession.
GRACE: Jeff Patterson is with us, WFLA reporter in Homosassa. Jeff. What are they doing now? Are they digging? Is there a body of water next to his home? I mean, where is Jessie?
PATTERSON: This is a very rural area. Four miles from a state preserve. There is about 3,000 acres of possibility out there so there is a wide range. The question is how much access does Couey have to a vehicle and where could he have taken her and we are told by the sheriff that he has given them some information about the general area where she`s located.
But on the issue of the computer that you were just talking about, the Lunsford family did in fact have a computer that they had recently purchased and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement does have a sexual offender list on there. If you go on to there Web site you can pull up your ZIP code here in Florida and find out where the registered sexual offenders live around you and around this area there were at least 11 sexual offenders .
GRACE: Good Lord!
PATTERSON: . registered on the FDLA list. So those are the people that they had been looking at from the very beginning. But I can tell you because the computer was a possibility from the get-go here in the Lunsford case. They actually seized it as evidence to find out if Jessica had perhaps gone online to communicate with somebody and we`re told that the only thing that she had looked up by herself was the Florida Comprehensive Aptitude Test, the FCAT here in Florida. It`s a big concern for people her age to take and to pass and that`s the only Web site that she had looked at and she had also gone through an Internet training course on safety.
So this girl was pretty well-prepared, but like you said, she`s a nine-year-old and she came up against a predator.
GRACE: I`m just wondering where he put her body. When we come back, we`ll go straight back out not only to Jeff Patterson but Sara Dorsey, CNN reporter who is joining us there.
Now to trial tracking, a quadruple killing in Mariana, Florida. Investigators say they`ve got little to go on in the killing of Danielle Baker, just 19 years old with three little boys. A two year old girl found unharmed in the apartment. Cops still don`t know - will announce how the victims were killed. The boys, catch this, were three years old, one year old and just three weeks. Investigators are interviewing two men, neither in custody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: You are seeing a live shot. We are in Homosassa, Florida. These people have gathered outside little Jessie`s home. They`re having a vigil for the little nine-year old girl now believed to be dead. For three weeks we have waited as one of the biggest manhunts in Florida history has gone down and tonight we learn that Jessie is dead.
Welcome back everybody. I am Nancy Grace and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. I have always said the courtroom is no place for the weak kneed and this is certainly no exception. Let`s go straight back out to Sara Dorsey. Sara, I was speaking with Jeff Patterson a few moments ago, asking were they digging for the little girl, is she buried, is she in a body of water, do we have any idea?
DORSEY: No, Nancy, they`re not giving any details. Of course, the sheriff says that`s part of the investigation. They do tell us that they have a general area to search in and just over my shoulder you can see a light back there. That`s directly behind the home that Mr. Couey was staying in. That`s where they`re looking right now. We can`t tell if they`re digging but we`re seeing a lot of flashlights and they have a large light set up, so we know they`re looking in that general area right now.
GRACE: With me in New York, criminal defense attorney Alex Sanchez. You know, Alex, you and I talked off camera but when I learned that they had taken items to be tested out of Couey`s home, I don`t care what they were saying about it, he`s just a person of interest, BS. When you start having agents, homicide detectives take items out of your home for forensic testing, OK, you`re in trouble, Alex.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, using the term, "person of interest" to me basically says, "listen, we have some evidence against this guy or we believe he is responsible for this and they`re targeting their information against him and they`re going after him. You know, the case is very distressing. I`m looking at the picture of that search. Where are the dogs? Where are the tracker dogs? And how come they didn`t get tracker dogs there before to search this place?
GRACE: Hold on. Let me - that`s a good point. Let me go back to Sara. Sara, as I recall, there have been tracker dogs and shortly after - Alex is correctly pointing out, shortly after they brought in the tracker dogs, they then - see that tape, Alex? They cordoned off about three quarters of a mile circumference around the home after bringing in the tracking dogs, which immediately said to me that they think her body is there.
Very quickly to Marc Klaas. Marc, you and I know it. I don`t care what some defense attorney or sociologist or psychologist says, child molesters cannot be cured. They can`t be cured. I don`t know why they get out of jail.
KLAAS: Never in the history of the world has either a pedophile nor a psychopath been cured. These are the kind of people that we`re trying to target with things like Amber Alerts as a response or Megan`s Law types of legislations. I`ll tell you how to get this guy. You want to find out where Jessie is? I`ll tell you exactly what to do. This guy has been negotiating for his life from the moment he apologized for wasting the time of the detectives. All they have to do is tell them that if he doesn`t give up this little girls` body, they`ll throw him in a general population, I guarantee it, they`ll have her body within 15 minutes.
GRACE: GP? GP? General population? Not GP, DP. Death penalty.
KLAAS: No, before that. I mean right now. I mean right now.
GRACE: You mean right now? Don`t even talk to me about a life sentence.
KLAAS: I mean right now. You throw him in a cell with a bunch of hardened criminals and this will be over in no time, one way or another.
GRACE: You know, Chris, I`ve got one minute left. The reality is unless he gives a full confession or they find forensics, the police are in trouble because a polygraph means nothing. That will not come into court.
PIXLEY: That`s right. It won`t be admissible. His defense attorney will oppose that and unless it`s agreed to by all counsel, it won`t be allowed in. But of course here there is more to this case already if they did have a four hour discussion with him you have to believe that they got a lot more information from him than mere confession.
GRACE: Can`t you just see some judge ruling out the confession? Can`t you just see it?
PIXLEY: Absolutely. He may not have waived his rights. There is always the argument that it is coerced but I want to reference .
GRACE: I`ve got 30 seconds.
PIXLEY: . something that Marc said. This is very good point that Marc makes about the general population because even though this will be death penalty eligible, he will not make it in the general population if he is convicted.
GRACE: No way. Quick break. As you know, we want desperately here to find missing people. Take a look at Gabriela West, the seven year old from Valley Stream, New York, missing since October 2000. Look at this girl. If you have any information on Gabriela, please call NCMA, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. 1-800-THE-LOST. Please help us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts. We bring you up to speed now with your headline prime newsbreak. Authorities say a convicted sex offender has confessed to kidnapping and murdering Jessica Lunsford. John Couey was arrested in Georgia yesterday on an unrelated charge. He had been living with relatives across the street from the nine year-old girl. Investigators believe now he kidnapped Lunsford about three weeks ago.
Former Connecticut governor John Roland will report to prison on April 1st. The three term Republican was sentenced today to one year and one day in federal prison for corruption. Roland has admitted to accepting trips and improvements to his home in exchange for political favors.
Martha Stewart might be able to plant that spring garden after all. A federal appeals court says the judge in the Martha Stewart case can considering altering her sentence. Stewart`s lawyers are expecting to request ending her house arrest immediately. Stewart spent five months in prison and is now under house arrest for lying about a stock deal. That is the news for now. I`m Thomas Roberts. We`ll take you back for more of Nancy Grace.
GRACE: After three weeks of searching, this man allegedly has confessed to kidnapping and killing nine year old Jessica Lunsford, the third grader about four feet tall, usually under a pink hat.
Let me go straight back out to Sara Dorsey. She is standing by at Homosassa, Florida. Sara, I know I just heard in my ear from Elizabeth that there is no official report but there is activity right behind you. What`s happening?
DORSEY: That`s a crime scene investigation that pulled up just beyond that trailer where Mr. Couey was staying. We`re seeing life and movement back there and I`ll tell you also just behind our camera there are a number of people lined up with candles in an impromptu vigil for Jessica. This is a community let down, Nancy. They came out, four and 500 people when they first came to search for her. This is only a community of a couple thousand people and they always had hope that they were going to be able to bring this little girl alive and now, of course, following this confession it doesn`t look like it`s going to be the case and the search now is for her body, not to bring her home safely.
GRACE: Joining us now, CNN reporter Susan Candiotti. Now, Susan is in Georgia, Augusta, Georgia, where Evander, John Evander Couey is. Hello, friend. Thank you for making it on to the show tonight. What can you tell me?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Nancy.
Well it`s been quite a day here. It began when investigators returned to the jail for a second day of questioning with John Couey, so this is how it`s been unfolding. They interviewed him for, I would say, around 11 hours over the course of two days. Now I hope you know about the history of what you`re looking at, that videotape. This was shot by a television station in Augusta, Georgia, WAGT, who on Wednesday of this week just happened to be shooting a story, a feature story, about people smoking in bar and don`t you know it was .
GRACE: There he is.
CANDIOTTI: . John Couey on that videotape. Now according to police this videotape would have been shot at a time, according to authorities nearly three weeks, three weeks after, if the confessions is to be believe that he killed Jessica Lunsford and he was staying at a homeless shelter for just a couple of days, as you`ll recall, after someone at the shelter recognized him after his photograph was put out over the news and over the Internet.
So they`ve been talking to him for two days and Nancy, throughout they said this man was cooperative, he was being very helpful to them and in fact, investigators said at one point today, sources did, that so far they hadn`t been learning much of anything that was really moving the investigation forward and then, obviously, according to authorities, their came a turn. They said that this afternoon after he had been given a polygraph, that he told authorities, you know, I apologize. He reportedly said, you don`t have to wait for the results. I know what you want to hear. That`s what Sheriff Dawsy said back in Florida and at that time, the sheriff said, he confessed.
I talked to investigators as they left here tonight and I said, how would you characterize what happened at that time? And they said that Couey broke down and cried.
GRACE: He cried?
CANDIOTTI: That`s what they said.
GRACE: OK. You know what? Marc Klaas, you know what`s going on right now? He`s bargaining. He`s bargaining. He doesn`t want to face the Florida death penalty. Now, you know, Marc. Florida has had what they call Ol` Sparky, the electric chair, for many, many years. It caught somebody on fire, no more Ol` Sparky. No more. It`s going to be lethal injection if the state seeks the death penalty.
Marc Klaas, anything we can learn tonight?
KLAAS: Well, certainly just once again that evil exists and I think we have to expand our databases, we have to close down the borders on these databases, we have to have stronger sentences and we shouldn`t let sex offenders plea bargain. It`s the same old stuff that we`ve all been saying for years and years, Nancy. Unfortunately the lobby for criminality seems to be stronger than the desire of those to stop criminality.
GRACE: OK. I want to thank my panel that was here tonight on behalf of the developments in the Jessie Lunsford case. I want to thank Sara Dorsey, there in Homosassa right now there is apparently digging or some type of activity right behind Sara. She`ll keep you updated here on Headline and on CNN. Good night, friend.
To Susan Candiotti, our friend their in Augusta. Thank you, dear. To Marc Klaas, victims` advocate and father of little Polly who was kidnapped and murdered. Thank you.
Jeff Patterson, WFLA thank you friend. Let`s switch gears quickly.
Another story in the news tonight. Today doctors disconnected the feeding tube of Terri Schiavo. Now Washington lawyers are fighting a last minute battle to prolong the severely brain damaged woman`s life. It will be a matter of weeks before she starves to death in her hospital bed. Indinedin (ph) Florida, Michael Schiavo, that`s Terri`s husband is with us. George Felos. Sir. Explain to us why the feeding tube - she`s not on life support, she`s not on life support, she`s on a feeding tube. Explain to us why the feeding tube will be removed and Terri will starve to death.
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO`S ATTORNEY: Well, there are a couple of misapprehensions you have there, Nancy.
GRACE: OK.
FELOS: Number one, artificial feeding through a tube inserted through a hole in your stomach is medical treatment and artificial life support under the law in every state.
GRACE: Is she on a ventilator?
FELOS: She is not on a ventilator. And patients have rights in every state to refuse artificial feeding. Number one. The second thing is Terri will not starve to death. The medical evidence was overwhelming and unrebutted that when this happens as it does every day in the United States, a patient dies in seven to 14 days from electrolyte imbalance when artificial provision of nutrition and hydration stops the blood .
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
FELOS: The blood chemistry really becomes upset and patients slowly fade away .
GRACE: Sir. Sir. Sir.
FELOS: . into a painless death.
GRACE: I`m not arguing with you about this, I`m on the fence about the whole thing but when you say she`s not starving to death but she doesn`t have electrolytes and nutrition, that sounds like lawyer talk for starving to death.
FELOS: No it`s not. It`s a medical fact that if Terri Schiavo actually starved to death, died from lack of nutrition, that process would take probably months. You and I could live on water for months .
GRACE: OK.
FELOS: She`s going to die within seven to 10 days.
GRACE: Here is my question for you. Now you call it nutritional deprivement (sic), I call it starvation, but what I want to talk about for a moment is your client, Terri`s husband. I`m on the fence. I know he`s got a whole nother (sic) family, he`s got a whole another woman that he met after Terri went ill. Is it true that he was offered about a million bucks to back off this case and let the parents take over?
FELOS: He was offered about a million dollars just the other week. A week before that we received a call from a lawyer, it appeared to be bona fide, who had a client that offered Michael $10 million to resign as guardian but the fact is that Mr. Schiavo has always said this case is not about money, it`s about his wife`s wishes and carrying out those wishes and no amount of money is going to make him turn his back on his wife and I want to add, too, Nancy that the court has made it very clear that even if Michael were not Terri`s guardian, whomever her guardian would be would be required to removed the life support because that`s what`s been ordered by the court.
The guardian has no discretion here.
GRACE: OK. With us is Terri Schiavo`s husband Michael whose lawyer is with us tonight. I don`t know if we`re parsing words, what the truth is, but he`s going to join us back along with our panel. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is very much aware of her surroundings. She can discriminate between people. She is partially blind, so when you look at the videos you`ll notice that a lot of times she looks sort of off into space and when her mother comes by she suddenly will light up and that`s because she can only see about 18 inches in front of her but I asked her to do different things. She squeezed each hand independently, do different motions with her arms and legs. Obviously she can follow (UNINTELLIGIBLE), she understands English. She can really do quite a bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael just called me a little while ago and I believe the tube was removed. He was pretty hard to understand because he was pretty emotional and upset and crying about it and he still loves her. That was the love of his life. And it`s hard - people think he`s a big ogre and everything else but he`s just a big teddy bear. I think the bigger they are the softer they are, but he`s just very emotional about the whole thing now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. As you know by now, life support - actually, a feeding tube, not life support, not a ventilator, but a feeding tube has been removed from a young woman in Florida, Terri Schiavo. She will die within about 14 days if there is no intervention. Her husband has the legal right to make this decision. Yes he has moved on in life, he is with another woman. He has a family. Her family is fighting desperately for her to live. I want to go to the president of the Baptist Theological Seminary, Albert Mohler.
Sir, thank you for being with us. I am twisted and torn over this. My whole family says yes, take the life support off me, take away the feeding tube. I don`t want to live that way. I, on the other hand, want to dig in and lay their and hope for a miracle. What are your thoughts?
ALBERT MOHLER, PRESIDENT, BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, I think what happened at 1:45 this afternoon is one of the most tragic cases of medical disaster that I can imagine. Because what`s happened here is we have a woman who is not on a ventilator, she is breathing on her own, she is in a state of diminished consciousness but she is by no means brain dead. She has parents who want to take care of her and yet she has had her feeding tube removed and she is going to die - regardless of how you want to parse the words, she is going to die of lack of nutrition, starvation. What has happened here is that we have a group of people, including medical and legal authorities, who have, driven by their own agenda just decided that persons in this kind of situation are not human beings deserving of the same kind of protection given to the rest of us.
GRACE: Well, I can tell you this much, Mr. Mohler, I don`t know what`s right or wrong here. Everybody, even the people I love are all divided right down the middle. But I know this much. I don`t want some judge sitting 700 miles away on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals bench telling me to do with my loved one`s life. Now to me, that`s a problem.
MOHLER: Now what you have in this society is issues like this are eventually and almost inevitably litigated because the courts have been given the authority to make these decisions and frankly I don`t want .
GRACE: No!
MOHLER: . any judge making this decision if it means taking away my life or the life of my loved one.
GRACE: You know what? We need a shrink. Let`s go to psychologist Dr. Michael Nuccitelli. Michael, weigh in.
MICHAEL NUCCITELLI, PSYCHOLOGIST: How would you like me to weigh in? Basically what this comes down to is it comes down to euthanasia and the right to die and the mother and the father and the husband that are fighting with one another, but what it comes down to is this young lady, if she had a moment, she had 30 seconds, 45 seconds of lucidia (ph), it`s what do you think that she would say? Would she say pull the tube or would she say, "I want to survive in this dilapidated state. So that`s what it comes down to.
GRACE: Wait. Wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait. When you say dilapidated, her parents don`t necessarily agree with you that she is dilapidated. They visit her, they take care of her. Although, although her husband has visited her, as well.
Very quickly to John Zarrella. John, break it down for me. What`s happening.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESONDENT: Well, now what`s happening is, of course, as we all know, her parents have said all along, I interviewed them a few weeks ago, have insisted that they don`t believe that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state. That has been their contention and they have wanted custody and when I have interviewed them they have said, look, we want that, we would like that but Michael would not give that to us.
But as you heard Mr. Felos say a few minutes ago, that just wouldn`t be in the cards anyway, it wouldn`t matter who was the guardian. They would have to carry out the letter of the law. Now today, Nancy, as we know, it`s not over. Let`s get that out and that hasn`t been expressed yet. This is not over by any stretch of the imagination.
GRACE: Yeah. Well. Hey. John. We all had supper tonight so when we say it`s not over, Terri Schiavo`s feeding tube has been removed. With us there in Florida is CNN reporter, you know him well, John Zarrella. Very quickly to Chris Pixley. Now this is scary. Congress is getting involved. Now that`s a surefire recipe for disaster. How do the courts and Congress fit into this story?
PIXLEY: Well, it`s a separation of powers issue, Nancy. I don`t think Congress does fit into this story.
GRACE: You`re talking like a lawyer.
PIXLEY: Well, to put it simply, this is an abuse of power by Congress. They have not passed any law dealing with the removal of life sustaining measures and so to that effect, if a judge has put in place an order that is legal, that doesn`t violate the law, they have absolutely no basis .
GRACE: Congress is out of line.
PIXLEY: . for overruling it. Congress will be out of it. It doesn`t matter that there`s a congressional subpoena. Judges quash subpoenas on a regular basis.
GRACE: I find it very difficult to believe that that bunch in Washington can agree on anything. I want to report to you that earlier with us was Michael Schiavo but he didn`t want to answer any questions and got up and walked up, leaving his lawyer on the hot seat. I`ll go straight back to his lawyer. His name is George .
FELOS: Hold on a second Nancy, that`s not true that Mr. Schiavo didn`t want to answer questions.
GRACE: Where did he go?
FELOS: He did not know until he sat down today and listened to the first half hour of this show that Jessica Lunsford had died. His wife is in his death process. When he heard that he lost his emotional composure. It has nothing to do with facing the cameras or answering questions. So I just want to straighten that out.
GRACE: OK. Now that you`ve straightened that out, maybe you can straighten out your take on how exactly Terri Schiavo is going to die. I call it starving to death. Look, I`m not arguing that families have a right to remove people from life support, them laying there for years on end, but this is not a ventilator, this is just feeding a woman.
FELOS: But Nancy, you don`t have a right to make a choice for Terri Schiavo. She said to her husband, to her best friend Joan, to her brother in law, I don`t want to be kept on feeding tubes, nothing artificial for me. You said to Michael, if I was in a catastrophic situation like that, please don`t keep me alive like that. She has no cerebral cortex. It`s gone. Where her thinking brain used to be is a CAT scan that shows a black whole filled with water.
GRACE: George. George. George. I got to say I disagree with you but I respect what you`re doing for your client. Apparently if he turned down a million bucks to butt out, this not about money. I don`t know what it`s about but sir, thank you for taking his side and being with us tonight.
FELOS: And people should call their congressmen and senators and say stay out of Terri`s life and let her die in peace.
GRACE: Good luck calling Congress. Sir, I`ve got to go to break but thank you, George Felos .
FELOS: You`re welcome.
GRACE: For being with us - Schiavo - quickly, to trial tracking. You are looking a live shot of Scott Peterson`s new condo, AKA San Quentin Prison. He is on day to on death row as he waits for execution. Got a long wait. If he looks out his cell, he can see the San Francisco Bay where he dumped the bodies of his wife, Laci and unborn son, Connor.
Let me thank all my guests. You met them earlier. Marc Klaas, Chris Pixley, Alex Sanchez, Jeff Patterson, Susan Candiotti, Sara Dorsey, John Zarrella, Albert Mohler, Michael Nuccitelli, George Felos - did I say Chris Pixley? Chris Pixley too.
News is next for some of you. Remember, we bring all the latest from courtrooms across the country three to four, three to five, on CLOSING ARGUMENTS.
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GRACE: Man, what a week in America`s courtrooms. It`s Friday night. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people who have touched all of our lives.
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GRACE: The day a judge can be shot dead on the bench is a sad day for all of us, not just the judge, Judge Roland Barnes, but his court reporter.
There`s a shot of Julie and that`s the way I will always remember her.
A California judge sentenced Scott Peterson to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He killed our grandson and our daughter. Scott got what he deserved.
GRACE: The same sentence Peterson gave his own wife, Laci and their unborn baby boy, Connor.
A stunning end to the Robert Blake murder trial and I mean stunning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty of the crime of first degree murder of Bonny Lee Bakley.
HOLLY GAWRON, DAUGHTER OF BONNY LEE BAKLEY: I lost my mother and I have to continue to suffer every day.
GRACE: The search for nine year old Jessie Lunsford, the third grade girl under the pink hat is coming to an end. Convicted sex offender John Evander Couey who was just across the street from Jessie has confessed to the little girl`s murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have told you that we have built a case, a very methodical case and I`ve got my man.
GRACE: The Idaho jury found 18 year old Sara Johnson guilty of murder one. Murder in cold blood.
It`s all about the shooting death of her own parents.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Families in the news this week. Families from Mark Lunsford, remember him looking for his little girl every night to Terri Schiavo`s parents fighting to save their girls life to Sara Johnson, the trial of the 16 year old girl who murdered her parents. Families.
Before we sign off I want to meet mine. They`re here tonight. Mack and Elizabeth. My mom and dad. Thank you for being with us this week to all my guests but especially tonight for being with us and inviting us into your home. Good night, friend.
END
