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Dolans Unscripted

Citrus County Sheriff Answers Press Questions on Jessica Lunsford Case; Frank Discussion of Ebbers Trial, Social Security, Terri Schiavo, March Madness

Aired March 19, 2005 - 10:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: And we want to take you live now to Homosassa Springs, Florida. You are looking at a live picture of Sheriff Jeff Dawsy speaking to reporters.
SHERIFF JEFF DAWSY, CITRUS COUNTY, FLORIDA: Good morning.

First, my thoughts, prayers and sorrow goes out to the family. I have had a conversation with Jessica's mom this morning. And I had a conversation with Mark and the grandparents this morning.

As you well know, there was a lot of activity here throughout the evening. And in the early morning hours, somewhere between 3:30 and 4:30, we recovered Jessica. And Jessica right now is in Leesburg and will be there for a period of time.

As you also well know -- and I apologize for some of the hesitation -- as you also well know, we asked for your help in finding four individuals and we did locate all four of them. We have charged Gene Secord (ph), who has nothing to do with the case, but it's a name that came out of the residence, with writ of attachment. Basically, he failed to pay his child support. So we arrested him last night.

And then we arrested these three individuals -- and Rhonda will be more than glad to help you, or Gail (ph) would be more than glad to help you -- Maddie Secord (ph), Matthew Detrick (ph) and Dorothy Dixon (ph) all with obstruction. Obstruction based on the fact that Couey told them he was wanted and they failed to tell us.

And I can tell you, I will have conversations with the state attorney's office, you can bank it. We're not going to plea bargain this if I have anything to do with it. They will serve 11-29, OK?

In reference to Couey, my staff is en route to bring that individual back here. I have some terminology I'd like to use, but we're en route to bring him back home.

With that, I'll turn it over to some questions.

QUESTION: Sheriff, you said that you have Jessica. Did you find her entire body or did you just find a portion of that?

DAWSY: Jessica is with us, all of Jessica.

QUESTION: Where was she found?

DAWSY: At the residence that's directly behind me. Well, maybe not directly behind me, but you'll see where my crime scene truck is.

QUESTION: So she was found there at residence?

(CROSSTALK)

DAWSY: In that particular area. Again, remember, I'm going to have to be guarded in what I say because now I'm building a capital case against this individual.

QUESTION: Did Mark have to ID that body?

DAWSY: No, no. We are not that far yet.

QUESTION: Sheriff, can you give us an idea of how he (UNINTELLIGIBLE), how he got around the house? I mean, how did she -- how did he get to her?

DAWSY: We are -- we have that information, but right now because of the criminal investigation we are guarding that. And when I think it's appropriate, I will be back to release it to you.

QUESTION: Sheriff, were there other people...

QUESTION: Sheriff, these people charged with obstruction, do you believe that they had knowledge of the murder?

DAWSY: If I can prove that, I assure you I will charge them with conspiracy. We were with them into the very early hours. In talking to my investigators, they told me that they do not believe it.

Remember something. These are a bunch of cracked-out individuals. And I can just tell you that I -- we right now don't believe that. But I am not going to let that go. They understand they have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) direction to try to see if they knew anything about it.

QUESTION: A quick follow-up. What do you mean by "cracked-out?"

DAWSY: Just a bunch of druggies.

QUESTION: The community has expressed outrage over what they say is an abundant number of sexual offenders registered in this area. What are your thoughts to that?

DAWSY: I'm not going to address that right now. I don't know what "abundant" is. I don't know what's inappropriate. I don't have control over that.

QUESTION: Sheriff, your thoughts on Jessica's body being found so close to her home when there were all of these volunteers and law enforcement and dogs looking for her?

DAWSY: Frustration, disappointment, failure.

QUESTION: Sheriff, this has hit really home for you. You have a 9-year-old daughter. When you got the news that your investigators were on to something back there...

DAWSY: Well, actually, a 9-year-old little boy. But...

QUESTION: Sorry.

DAWSY: No, that's fine. That's fine. I have a daughter and another son. But a flood of emotions.

QUESTION: Sheriff, how much did you search in that area during the search, like the first couple of weeks? Was that area thoroughly searched?

DAWSY: This whole area was thoroughly searched.

QUESTION: Did bloodhound go over there?

DAWSY: Bloodhounds were all over this area. You know, I'm not an expert by any means on handling of the animals, but, you know, there's different levels.

You know, there's cadaver dogs. You give them a specific location. There's scent dogs, and that's the ones that can go out there and scent it. And then there's my tracker working dogs. And nobody led us to that area.

QUESTION: Sheriff, we were over there just a couple of days ago getting video of a mobile home. We saw a shovel sitting next to the mobile home. Do you believe that that shovel was used in covering up the crime? And the second thing is, do you believe members of the media walking over there may have trampled your crime scene?

DAWSY: No, no. You didn't trample the crime scene. And I don't know.

QUESTION: How about the shovel?

DAWSY: I don't know about the shovel.

QUESTION: Sheriff, do you have a time frame on when Jessie was killed?

DAWSY: No, I do not know that yet.

QUESTION: Sheriff, there's been some speculation...

QUESTION: Sheriff, did you say the body was found inside the house or outside?

DAWSY: I'm sorry, what?

QUESTION: Can you state whether the body was found inside or outside?

DAWSY: Outside.

QUESTION: Under? QUESTION: There's been some speculation from just neighbors that possibly the Lunsfords knew Couey, and you said in the past that wasn't the case. Are you still standing by that?

DAWSY: There is not a relationship, OK? We're not sure at this particular point, and there's a possibility because of these actions that he may have interacted with Jessica. But there's no relationship between Couey and this family.

QUESTION: Sheriff, was there a time frame for when she was taken to being kept somewhere and then killed? Or how was -- what was the time frame?

DAWSY: I can't release that right now because I really don't have a true time frame. You know, this guy is not a quality person by any means. And, you know, he is also, to my knowledge, a crack head. And I don't think we're actually ever going to be able to get a valid timeline about him. He's truly a piece of trash.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you think there was any involvement...

DAWSY: I can't tell you that.

QUESTION: The other people living in the house, do we think that they might have been aware and involved that Jessica was in the house?

DAWSY: If they were, I'll charge them with conspiracy. But we don't believe so.

QUESTION: What do you want to see happen to Mr. Couey, Sheriff?

DAWSY: The death penalty.

QUESTION: Sheriff, how did Jessica die?

DAWSY: I can't tell you that.

QUESTION: Sheriff, did investigators speak with everybody in that house on day one or day two of this investigation?

DAWSY: We are still formulating that, OK? We know we were in that house at a certain date and Jessica was not in that house. And it was in a very short period of time from when Jessica turned up missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One last question.

DAWSY: One more question.

QUESTION: Sheriff, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the Lunsford home (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

DAWSY: I can't answer that.

QUESTION: So all the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are called off?

DAWSY: I'm sorry. What, sir?

QUESTION: All the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are called off?

DAWSY: Yes, all the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are called off.

Thank you very much. I will be back in touch.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) any remorse at all in giving you details? Sheriff, any kind of remorse for what he did?

DAWSY: He apologized to us for wasting our time, but I don't know of any other remorse.

I'll be back in touch.

QUESTION: Can you tell us where they were found, Sheriff?

DAWSY: Who?

KAYE: All right. Just to recap, if you are just joining us, you've been listening to a live press conference there with Citrus County Sheriff Jeff Dawsy. He had a few things to say about the suspect in the case here, the disappearance of 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford.

The suspect, John Couey, referring to him, as "a piece of trash" and saying that he would like to see him get the death penalty. He also did report that between 3:30 and 4:30 this morning the body of Jessica Lunsford was found very close to her own home.

He couldn't give us an exact location there on the property. But it was found on the property where the suspect, John Couey, reportedly told investigators to search.

When asked about if it was her entire body or parts of her remains, all the sheriff would simply say is, "Jessica is with us." As you know, we had some reports earlier this morning from our Susan Candiotti reporting from two sources that remains of Jessica had been found, partial remains, in fact.

So let's now take another listen to Mark Lunsford. He is Jessica's father. As you saw there in that press conference, a lot of emotion involved in this case. The sheriff, himself, getting emotional, and Jessica's father, as well, emotional earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK LUNSFORD, JESSICA'S FATHER: I just want to say to everybody, to my community, to everyone that's seen Jessie's picture, that everyone heard me say time after time that she would be home. She's home now, and it's over. And now we have a new struggle. And I need more people to support now the efforts that we try to make to change things. I love everybody for helping, for supporting, for even talking about it. But Jessie's home now and she's right here with me. And she knows, she knows it all.

And all of the parents out there, I know everybody does, but do it more often. Make sure you get that hug and kiss every day before you leave that house.

I did. I got mine. You just make sure you get yours. And remember, love your children this much and no one or nothing will come between you and them.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Listening there to a very emotional Mark Lunsford, the father of 9-year-old Jessica, after speaking to reporters there for the first time after learning that his 9-year-old daughter is indeed not coming home.

We want to talk now with Marc Klaas, who's on the phone with us from San Francisco. Marc is the father of Polly Klaas. You may remember that case, a very high-profile kidnapping and murder of a very young girl.

Marc, good to have you with us.

MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Thank you.

KAYE: I hate to take you back to that time in your own life, it's been more than 20 years since you lost your daughter. But can you give us an idea of what Mark Lunsford is going through at this moment?

KLAAS: Well, actually, it's been 12 years. But first, I would like to extend my deepest and most heartfelt condolence to Mark and his family. Unfortunately, I do know what they're going through.

And I can tell you this, that, like Mark, we ran on adrenaline for quite some period of time and we were very, very hopeful that Polly was alive. Now, besides hope, the main emotion during that entire search for Polly was fear, fear that she would be -- that she was being harmed by somebody.

What we found out, ultimately, as Mark did, is that she probably didn't live very long at all after she was abducted. That she was probably raped and murdered within an hour or two. So he knows that nobody has been hurting her. His fear has been replaced by profound anger, an anger that is pretty much off of the emotion scale.

In our situation, when we found out that Polly had bin kidnapped -- or, I'm sorry, that Polly's remains had been recovered and that there had been an admission to the crime, although I understood it intellectually it didn't really strike the emotional nerve for a couple of hours. There were people around me that were crying, that were obviously visibly upset. But it almost seemed to go right over the top of my head.

I would say about two hours later, however, the whole emotional impact of -- of -- of the cataclysmic revelations became -- became, I don't know, manifested like so deep in my soul that I just felt like I was going to explode. I just -- I -- this is hard even to talk about just having watched Mark. But you experience the kind of emotions nobody should ever have to experience.

And it's all simply because people exist. And oftentimes we seem to protect the evil over the rights of the innocent.

KAYE: And if you could, just take us a little bit deeper into that cycle of grief. Mark Lunsford now three weeks into it, you're 12 years into it. How does that grief change over the years, or does it not?

KLAAS: Well, we've already seen by what Mark said just a few minutes ago that he's going to try to make something happen out of this, that he's going to try to create some kind of meaning out of Jessica's death and try to create a legacy in her name that will be protective of other children and that will be meaningful. And I think that's the first big important step, because there's really three ways somebody can go after a situation like this.

You can either lose yourself in depression, alcoholism or drug addiction. Obviously that's a loser's choice all the way around.

The other -- another option would be just to go into some kind of a denial and sort of try to pretend that it didn't happen. And believe me, there's a payoff down the road for that.

The other final option, and the one that is most successful for people, is to fight back. And that's to make sure that what happened to your child doesn't happen to other children. That way you can give meaning to the death, that way you can finally beat the bad guy, whereas the other two ways the bad guy beats you. But this is a process that can take a long, long time.

I was lucky. I have a wonderful wife and a wonderful family. And they've been able to sustain me, and we've been able to sustain each other through the ordeal. I would say it was after maybe eight or nine years that we were able to finally start appreciating the beautiful things that life has to offer again and put our lives on a very positive track and not live in the shadow of grief every moment.

KAYE: All right. Marc Klaas, thank you for your time and your insight today.

And we want to take you back now to Florida, to Homosassa Springs, where Sara Dorsey is on the scene, having just heard Sheriff Jeff Dawsy speaking there.

Sara, what can you tell us more?

SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you it sounds like the search for Jessica Lunsford's body is indeed over. We are told that she is in Leesburg, that an autopsy is pending and it could sake several days for that.

When asked if they found the entire body, the sheriff said just that "We have Jessica." But he had some very choice words for John Couey, the man who confessed to this crime. He called him "a piece of trash" and said he wants to see this man get the death penalty.

The sheriff was leading up the investigation the entire three weeks. And throughout this, you know, was telling us how frustrated he was that he had all of these great resources, people coming in from other states to help them, and still there were very few leads.

Now, this home is only 200 yards away from the Lunsford home where Jessica's body was found. Searchers have been all over this area with dogs, on foot. And the sheriff just stood out here in front of us and said he's just frustrated.

It actually almost seemed like he was tearing up when he said that, frustrated that they had looked in that area and could not find this girl's body. It took a confession from that convicted serial killer to lead investigators to that area. But once they got the general area to search in, it didn't take them too long to find Jessica Lunsford.

About 2:30 in the morning, according to the sheriff, her body was found. Of course the confession came earlier in the afternoon. So not too long for investigators to get in there.

This has been a tough three weeks for this entire community. Last night we had community members showing up with candles, putting on an impromptu vigil for Jessica.

You know, we've had searchers out here since the very beginning. Some 400 and 500 searchers came out in the beginning, and this is only a community of about 2,000 people. So you can really see, this is really striking home with the sheriff, of course the family of this lost little girl, and the entire community here who was searching so desperately and hoping to bring her home alive -- Randi.

KAYE: All right. Sara Dorsey for us in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Thank you very much.

We want to check back in now with Susan Candiotti, who is in Augusta, Georgia. That is where the suspect in this case, John Couey, is being held. We spoke with Susan earlier today, just a short time ago, and she was reporting some breaking news for us on the remains of Jessica Lunsford being found.

Susan, have you heard anything else? Susan, can you hear me?

OK. OK. We'll get back to Susan Candiotti in Augusta, Georgia, as soon as we can.

In the meantime, let's listen once again to what Sheriff Jeff Dawsy had to say just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAWSY: Good morning.

First, my thoughts, prayers and sorrow goes out to the family. I have had a conversation with Jessica's mom this morning. And I had a conversation with Mark and the grandparents this morning.

As you well know, there was a lot of activity here throughout the evening. And in the early morning hours, somewhere between 3:30 and 4:30, we recovered Jessica. And Jessica right now is in Leesburg and will be there for a period of time.

As you also well know -- and I apologize for some of the hesitation -- as you also well know, we asked for your help in finding four individuals and we did locate all four of them. We have charged Gene Secord (ph), who has nothing to do with the case, but it's a name that came out of the residence, with writ of attachment. Basically, he failed to pay his child support. So we arrested him last night.

And then we arrested these three individuals -- and Rhonda will be more than glad to help you, or Gail (ph) would be more than glad to help you -- Maddie Secord (ph), Matthew Detrick (ph) and Dorothy Dixon (ph) all with obstruction. based on the fact that Couey told them he was wanted and they failed to tell us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: All right. Want to break right there and now take you to Susan Candiotti, who is joining us by phone from Augusta, Georgia.

Good morning again, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Randi.

KAYE: What can you tell us the latest from there? That is, where the suspect in this case, John Couey, is being held.

CANDIOTTI: Well, we learned from the sheriff, in his words, Sheriff Dawsy, "We're en route to bring him back home." So let's remind everyone where we stand with John Couey.

He is currently under a suicide watch at the Richmond County Jail in Augusta, Georgia, where he has been since he was arrested at a Salvation Army -- just outside a Salvation Army homeless shelter on Thursday. Now, he was in town for a couple of days, and after he was arrested investigators interviewed him for more than 11 or 12 hours over the course of those two days.

And it was yesterday afternoon, just before 4:00 in the afternoon, when he was being interviewed and after he had been given a polygraph that he told authorities, you don't have to wait for the results, I'm going to tell you more. And at that time, police say, he confessed to abducting and killing Jessica Lunsford.

Now, remember that earlier in the day yesterday there was a brief face-to-face meeting between John Couey and a local magistrate at the jail. He was told that he had the right to an attorney and, according to the judge, who spoke with me afterwards, he said that John Couey waived his right to a lawyer. In the judge's words, he seemed like a nice guy, didn't seem to have a care in the world, as the judge put it, and he waived his right and said that he would return voluntarily to Florida.

Remember, he is being held currently on probation violation charges for failing to tell police that he was leaving Florida when he bought a bus ticket using a fake name, leaving Florida after Jessica disappeared, and got on a bus to Savannah, Georgia, and then went tonight Augusta. So they're holding him on those probation violation charges.

Theoretically, authorities do have the legal right now to pick him up and bring him back to Florida, where presumably authorities are putting together charges in connection with this case --Randi.

KAYE: All right. Susan Candiotti reporting for us from Augusta, Georgia. Thank you.

As you can imagine, you've seen the pictures this morning, Mark Lunsford, the father of 9-year-old Jessica, in tears. This has been a very, emotional three weeks for the Lunsford family. They are feeling pain and grief that families throughout this country, many of them, most of them, luckily, will never know.

We talked with Marc Klaas earlier this morning. We also now would like to speak with Ed Smart. He is the father of Elizabeth Smart. You may remember, Elizabeth Smart was taken from her home in Utah right out of her bedroom, very similar to the Lunsford case.

Ed, good morning to you.

TOM SMART, DAUGHTER ABDUCTED FROM HOME: Good morning. I am Tom Smart, Ed's brother.

KAYE: Oh, Tom Smart. OK. I apologize for that. Tom Smart joining us. So you would be Elizabeth's uncle.

SMART: I am Elizabeth's uncle. Ed apparently wasn't available this morning.

KAYE: OK. Well, we're happy to have you joining us.

If you could, talk a little bit about what the Lunsford family is going through. Luckily, Elizabeth was found safe and sound. It had been quite some time. But I guess, first, if you could, just touch on what the waiting was like, the not knowing.

SMART: Well, I think that talking to several families, including ours, really the hell of not knowing is probably a deeper hell than finally finding the truth. And, in fact, Jeff Runnion (ph). who lost his daughter Rachel (ph) 22 years ago, at his funeral said, you know, "It's a sick day when the biggest blessing you ever get in life is a dead daughter." And that's a little bit about the relief of what happens, I think, for a family to at least know the truth. And we were so fortunate to get our life back and to have Elizabeth back that, you know, it was truly a miracle that every family deserves and few get. But I think that in that situation we certainly were praying to get Elizabeth back. But what you really pray for is to find the truth. And I think there's probably some relief in the Lunsford family today as well.

KAYE: And when you look at those pictures of Mark Lunsford on the video there, speaking with reporters, addressing them at the microphone, really struggling emotionally, what do you feel for him?

SMART: Well, nothing but compassion for any family that has to go through this hell. And, you know, it brings back a lot of memories of everything.

And, you know, we were very, very fortunate. And, you know, I salute my brother and other people who are advocates out there trying to make sure that this happens -- should never happen. That it happens less than it is.

KAYE: All right. Tom Smart, the uncle of Elizabeth Smart, speaking with us by phone from Utah. Thank you for your time this morning.

We want to go back now to Florida, Homosassa Springs, Florida, where Sara Dorsey is live for us, has been there for a few days now.

Sara, we heard Sheriff Jeff Dawsy talk, he was -- he wouldn't go too far in describing exactly where he said Jessica Lunsford's remains were found. You've been there. You've been on the scene there. Could you help us out just a little bit in describing exactly where and maybe how close they might have been to her own home or possibly where John Couey was staying?

DORSEY: Absolutely. And, in fact, I'm going to move out of the way. I want you to be able to get a better picture. And I'm going to have my photographer kind of zoom in here for a second.

It's over my shoulder here. There is a trailer. You can see a crime scene investigation van.

That was the place that investigators pinpointed and went right to yesterday after that confession came through. You can see an awning, a blue awning. That's a tent put up by investigators.

We believe the body was found near the stairs, which would be consistent to where that particular tent is set up. Dawsy would not go into a lot of detail about that. It is still an ongoing investigation. We have still seen searchers back there, we would gather, collecting any additional evidence that might be around in that area.

But to the Lunsford home, this trailer is only really across the street, kind of cattycorner to it. I would say about 200 yards. You can certainly see the Lunsford home from the trailer and vice versa. It's not far at all. And investigators were all over that area. They were all over the Lunsford home, and they worked out in a circle. That's normal protocol with a missing child, and that's exactly what they did. They don't know why they did not find this little girl until the confession, though -- Randi.

KAYE: You can imagine, though, having searched for three weeks how frustrating knowing that she was right there. All right. Sara Dorsey live for us in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Thanks so much.

We are going to take a break here. But we do want to let you know that here on CNN we will continue to update you with the very latest developments in this case. We will take a break here, and you will find DOLANS UNSCRIPTED on the other side of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the Time Warner Center in New York City with their take on the news, Ken and Daria Dolan.

KEN DOLAN, CO-HOST: Yes, hi, everybody. How are you?

Usually we're a wacky, happy bunch here on DOLANS UNSCRIPTED. They're always telling me, take it easy, don't get so crazy all of the time. But I will tell you this, it's tough doing a show after hearing the news of Jessica Lunsford.

I'm a parent, and you don't have to be a parent. But I'll tell you, I was absolutely choked up seeing the dad. And I'm a dad myself of my daughter, who may be -- who may be watching. And boy, when he said kiss and hug your kid every day, talk about words to live.

I'll tell you one thing -- anyway, this -- anyway, we're DOLANS UNSCRIPTED. It's sort of the abbreviated version as we talk about a whole bunch of family issues and a whole bunch of stuff going on in the news.

I'm just choked up. And I'm a six foot -- I'm a big guy. I'm 6'4." I can take care of myself. I feel like somebody just kicked me in the gut.

DARIA DOLAN, CO-HOST: Well, you know, as a mother...

K. DOLAN: When the police guy broke up and the hugs, I said -- you know, I want to see where these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people are, Daria, when they're talking at a penitentiary.

D. DOLAN: Ken, as a mother I am so angry at this from the standpoint -- we heard from Polly Klaas' father, we heard from the Smart family.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: We heard from Jessica Lunsford's father. What kind of country are we when we allow these recidivists who attack our children? If we cannot protect our children... K. DOLAN: Who can we protect?

D. DOLAN: ... then we are not very much of a society at all. For all of our entrepreneurism and our capitalism and our democracy, there is no democracy in re-releasing these recidivists to the streets of this country to strike children over and over again.

K. DOLAN: This guy's arrested 37 times! How many damn...

D. DOLAN: Well, it wasn't all on children. It was a number of burglaries.

K. DOLAN: He's a registered sex molester.

D. DOLAN: He is.

K. DOLAN: Why don't we get tougher? Damn, I'm so mad!

For gods sakes, let's start getting tough with these people. Our kids aren't safe. The kid's asleep!

D. DOLAN: Well, the interesting thing is, as we look at the news that we planned on covering here on DOLANS UNSCRIPTED today, it seems to have a lot to do with children. Because the fight over Terri Schiavo's life continues following the removal of the feeding tube yesterday.

K. DOLAN: That's right. You've seen in the news a Florida judge denied a request by a House committee -- please, give me a break -- to keep Schiavo on life support, saying the legislative bodies have no place in court proceedings.

D. DOLAN: The Schiavo case has highlighted the importance of living wills and clear instructions for the end of life. And yes, in fact this could have all been averted had -- if, in fact, there was a discussion at all between Michael Schiavo and his wife...

K. DOLAN: On a living will.

D. DOLAN: ... about how she would want to be treated in the situation.

K. DOLAN: Yes. But our good friend Tony Harris made a point yesterday, Daria. When you're in your 20s -- and I'm guessing she's 41 now, 15 years -- 26 or 27 years old, when you talk about living wills you can always look back at it in retrospect.

Clearly, you're right, a living would have taken an awful lot of this pressure off this whole case. Yet we have to realize that even the youngsters, people in their 20s, especially getting married should take a look at a living will. Can you imagine DeLay and Blunt -- just let me finish.

D. DOLAN: Well...

K. DOLAN: Let me finish. DeLay, Blunt and Mica and the House subpoena wants to go to the hospice to see if she's being taken care of, and if, in fact, she really is in a persistent vegetative state? Who the hell do they think they are in Washington, doctors too?

D. DOLAN: Well, the fact of the matter is, I have a little story to share with everybody.

K. DOLAN: I shouldn't have said "hell." I'm sorry.

D. DOLAN: And mom, I hope you will walk out of the room for a couple of minutes because I don't want to get you upset on a day like this. But nonetheless, my mother and I were in the hospital with my dad, who had a living will, a durable health care proxy. And we were approached by the doctor and by hospice regarding whether to pull the feeding tube or not.

And when you see this argument carried out and played over and over in the press as it is now, and to have the Congress of the United States weigh in on something they know absolutely nothing about, it sickens me. And it sickened me this morning as I was going through the news for the program preparation to have to relive a very simple fact that even when you have that health care proxy and the person has specifically said they don't want any unusual resuscitation, you relive and second guess yourself the rest of your life.

And to make a media circus out of this for the Congress of the United States -- and with the media, yes, with us carrying this back and forth, over and over again between the Schiavo and Schindler families, is unforgivable. And that's my peace on that.

K. DOLAN: Wasn't there a problem with the living will that your dad had, with the durable power of attorney that your dad had done? Didn't they have trouble finding it potentially or something like that?

D. DOLAN: Yes, when he stopped breathing a week before they couldn't find it and they resuscitated him.

K. DOLAN: You know, I'm not a Libertarian, but let me just tell you something. And you can tell me -- you can weigh in, you can e- mail us, we can talk about it next week because we're short of time today.

Let me tell you something everybody across America. And guys, you agree or you disagree with me? If something happens to my most wonderful wife, the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me, Tom DeLay in Washington is not going to tell me how to -- is not going to tell me how to treat my wife if she gets in the position that Terri Schiavo's in. That's the end of that story.

D. DOLAN: But a heads up for all of you out there that have taken the precautions on durable health care proxies to be aware that the latest federal -- and this is what happens when the federal government gets involved. The latest regulations that come out of the Department of Health and Human Services is basically putting doctors and medical people and hospitals in the delicate position of not knowing whether in fact they can even tell a designated health care person the information that would allow them to make an intelligent decision in life and death matters.

K. DOLAN: Right.

D. DOLAN: So if you have one of these in place, thanks to the HIPAA law, please go back to your attorney this week and make sure that you sign another paper which will say that, in fact, the doctor will be free of lawsuit, the medical staff and hospital will be free of any litigation if they tell your designated person the situation of your health.

K. DOLAN: All right. Let's move on, Daria. May we?

All right. After a six-week trial and eight days of jury deliberations -- wow, what an interesting trial -- you heard the former WorldCom CEO Bernie Ebbers is now facing up to 85 years in prison.

D. DOLAN: That's right. A federal jury convicted Ebbers on all nine counts. And he helped mastermind the huge accounting scandal that led to the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history.

K. DOLAN: Yes. Legal expert says the 63-year-old Ebbers could be behind bars for the rest of his life. Sentencing scheduled for the middle of June -- I think June 13. Ebbers will appeal the verdict.

Of course we'll have more to say on this late a little bit later in the show. So you may want to stick around for that. We'll talk about it.

D. DOLAN: Important stuff to say regarding your pocketbook and how you can keep from having your retirement go up in smoke in a situation like this.

And there's lots of news this week to go into a little segment that we like to refer to as "Social Insecurity."

K. DOLAN: As President Bush continues touting -- as President Bush -- as President Bush begins -- continues touting his ambitious plan for overhauling the system he was dealt a symbolic blow, for sure. The Senate put his Social Security proposal to a test vote and it split right down the middle: 50 yes's, 50 no's, and five Republicans joined the 44 Democrats and one Independent in the nay vote.

D. DOLAN: And there are also rumblings around the beltway that the president's plan is losing some steam. And the man himself backed off a little bit this week with his idea of private accounts. So take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These accounts do not permanently fix Social Security. We're going to have to do other things. They are a part of a Social Security fix that will help the individual worker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

K. DOLAN: President Bush, please, please, stop floating this stuff. What's your plan? What is your plan for saving Social Security?

Stop with the three trips next week and, please, start concentrating on stuff. Not that Social Security's not important. We realize something has to be done. Privatizing ain't going to save it. What's going to help?

D. DOLAN: Well, it's the problem that...

K. DOLAN: Why am I so angry? I'm in a bad mood today.

D. DOLAN: It's an afterstep to the whole process of Social Security.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: First, fix the exiting product, because that does need help. It needs to be changed. It needs to be tweaked or we're going to have problems for our children's children.

But you don't start with something totally new to try and fix an existing problem. Personal accounts may make a lot of sense, but that's step two. You need to do step one first.

K. DOLAN: Does Medicare, Medicaid, tax reform, minimum wage and an out of control budget mean -- make any sense to anybody down there?

D. DOLAN: Well, also, this week, federal chairman Alan Greenspan was uncharacteristically direct when he commented on Social Security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN GREENSPAN, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: I believe that a thorough review of our commitments and at least some adjustments in those commitments is urgently need. The necessary adjustments will become evermore difficult and larger the longer we delay. No changes will be easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

K. DOLAN: Oh, please!

D. DOLAN: Well he's...

(CROSSTALK)

K. DOLAN: Same old...

D. DOLAN: ... calling for raising the age of retirement and increasing taxes.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: Which is something that would not be a good -- good help to the economy. But, you know, before we move on...

K. DOLAN: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Talk is cheap.

Yes, we have to do something or the thing's going to go bankrupt. Yes, we're going to have to do something or by the year 2042 we can only pay 73 percent of the current benefit level.

OK, OK, OK! What's your plan? Give me a plan.

D. DOLAN: Well, we...

K. DOLAN: I don't need Greenspan telling me we've got a problem. I'm hearing it 17 times a day on the news.

D. DOLAN: I'm going to let you take us out of this break.

K. DOLAN: Before we move on, we just wanted to share this amusing snippet -- did I say "amusing" -- from Alan Greenspan this week. I never thought I'd use the word funny to mention Greenspan and Social Security, by the way, in the same sentence, but certainly I've been proven wrong before. In fact, many times. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREENSPAN: It would not be a bad idea to move the whole Social Security operation to the West Coast, get it out of Washington, maybe even rename it so that nobody would discover where it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

K. DOLAN: What's that all about? He's writing like a comedy routine or something. Send it to the West Coast?

D. DOLAN: Well, we could rename it.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: Yes.

K. DOLAN: All right.

D. DOLAN: You know, jamba juice. That came from the West, East. So we'll send jamba juice from the East back to the West again.

K. DOLAN: All right. What's up next?

D. DOLAN: Well, up next, the NCAA is cracking down on college teams that didn't make the grade. The details of the controversial plan right from the top will be next. The president of NCAA after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

K. DOLAN: Hey, nice shot of New York City, Will (ph). Well done. Sixty-five college basketball teams, including my Boston College Eagles, have one goal, make it St. Louis and the final four for the players' championship, which could lead to a career in the NBA, maybe. But the colleges see a much, much bigger payday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

K. DOLAN (voice-over): March Madness, it is sweeping college campuses, sports bars and offices across the country. As student athletes become superstars...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the three knocked down...

K. DOLAN: ... the college game has become big business. CBS is paying $6 billion to air NCAA basketball games through 2014. Advertisers spend up to $1 million for a 30-second commercial during the championship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sponsored by Nivea for Men.

K. DOLAN: Revenues from basketball helped the NCAA dole out over $280 million to colleges last year. Winning championships brings more money from the NCAA and more money from alumni donors. But building a winning team costs money, and many coaches earn over $1 million a year, more than any college president in the country.

Critics say that with so much money in the college game, academics are taking second place. Only one-third of teams in this year's tournament managed to graduate half of their student athletes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

K. DOLAN: We're very pleased to welcome Myles Brand. He is president of the National Collegiate Athletics Association, the NCAA. He joins us from Indianapolis.

Good morning. How are you?

MYLES BRAND, PRESIDENT, NCAA: Good morning.

K. DOLAN: Nice to have you with us.

BRAND: Thank you.

D. DOLAN: Mr. Brand, I understand you are the first (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to head up a collegiate organization. Why did it take so long to get an educator in front of the NCAA?

BRAND: That's a very good question. The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) commission, the reform commission on intercollegiate athletics, called for this over a decade ago. It did take a long time to get a president, a university president, in this position, you are right.

D. DOLAN: But in the meantime, we find that the graduation rates at a number of the schools are absolutely abysmal. Kentucky, I think, being the worst, with only 8 percent of the team members ever graduating. Connecticut and UConn and Texas at 27 percent.

What is your new academic progress plan?

BRAND: Yes. You know, overall, student athletes graduate at a greater rate than the general student body. But that's not true universally.

For example, in basketball, men's basketball, as you point out, student athletes graduated at a significant lower rate than the general student body. So we've put in place what we call the academic progress rate. That's a real-time measure of academic progress. And we're going to hold teams accountable.

In the past, we've always held student athletes accountable through eligible requirements. Now we're going to hold teams and coaches and schools accountable. And if those student athletes don't graduate at a reasonable rate, they will lose scholarships and hence not be competitive in the future.

K. DOLAN: Mr. Brand, let me tell you something. I absolutely love what you're talking about.

As a former athlete myself, it's a great idea. But it seems to me -- here's the Achilles' heel, and you can bop me on the head if I'm wrong. And that is simply, if you are going to hold me as an athlete or my college or university, our feet to the fire academically, I'm a player, I'm going to take the easiest courses in the world. And an imbecile could get like a C.

BRAND: Well, the question is related to sometimes they say, well, faculty will cheat and others will cheat.

K. DOLAN: yes.

BRAND: Here's the underlying point. Faculty members hold the integrity of the institution in their hands. We have to defend -- depend upon the faculty members of each university to make sure the courses are genuine courses.

We ourselves have to take some steps on the national level. For example, you have to make 20 percent progress toward towards a degree. Introductory courses, basket weaving no longer counts. And you have be prepared coming into college to do college work.

So we've raised the bar both in terms of getting into the institution and making sure that you're making progress card towards a degree to be able to compete. That's different from the way it was when you and I were in school.

D. DOLAN: You know, but, President Brand, it worries me that any instructor that really tries to hold a basketball player, since we're talking basketball right now, or any athlete's feet to the fire in what they're taking, there's going to be some coaches who are making millions of dollars in salary now who are going to come after those teachers. There's going to be a war.

How much clout do you at the NCAA really have?

BRAND: You know, that's myth and anecdotal evidence. The fact of the matter, academic integrity is valued by the schools and by the faculty members. And those faculty members don't sell out.

In the rare cases when we've seen something like that, we prosecute. We prosecute very strongly. Academic integrity is one of the rock-bottom values that we have enforce in college athletics, otherwise we shouldn't be in it at all.

K. DOLAN: President Brand, we only have 20 seconds. But could we raise the bar? Don't you think you should raise the bar a little higher than make 50 percent graduation the goal? It's better than it is, but could you do better than 50?

BRAND: You know, the general student body division, one, graduates at 60 percent. Fifty percent is a start. It's a lot higher than we have now. We're moving forward. That's what counts.

K. DOLAN: Got you.

D. DOLAN: President Myles Brand, thank you so much for joining us. And, of course, I know everybody in America will be watching the games.

BRAND: Good.

D. DOLAN: Thank you.

K. DOLAN: Thank you, president.

BRAND: Thank you.

D. DOLAN: And before we move on, March Madness Dolans style is the focus of our weekly cartoon.

K. DOLAN: Now that's you going up for the dunk? DOLANS UNSCRIPTED and -- wait a minute. You stuffed me there.

Nice work, Mike Chikatilo. Very nice.

The real March -- you played basketball. You played a little basketball in school, didn't you? Girls, you have to dribble twice or something?

D. DOLAN: I did. I was terrible.

K. DOLAN: All right. All right.

D. DOLAN: I was great until I made the team.

Up next, WorldCom's former CEO Bernie Ebbers, he claims he knew nothing of the massive fraud taking place on his watch. Well, now that's he's been convicted, some other corporate chiefs are rethinking their own "I don't know" defense.

K. DOLAN: Oh, boy. But first, here's our weekly Dolans tax break.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

D. DOLAN (voice-over): Want to get your tax refund faster? Well, the best way is to file your tax return now. Then once you have your return in order, make sure you sign up for direct deposit.

Put your bank account number and routing code on your tax return and the IRS will deposit the money right into your account. But don't be tempted to get a loan based on your refund. Interest rates can be close to 100 percent on an annual basis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

D. DOLAN: He's the biggest fish in the biggest corporate fraud in American history, and now he's facing some serious prison time. Here's a closer look at the man who built and broke one of America's top companies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERNIE EBBERS, FMR. WORLDCOM CEO: CEOs in the world today get a lot more credit than what they deserve.

D. DOLAN (voice-over): A Manhattan jury showed Bernie Ebbers just how much credit they think CEOs deserve. Today the Canadian-born entrepreneur faces up to 85 years in prison, convicted of masterminding the largest corporate fraud in U.S. history.

Bernie Ebbers was not your typical CEO. A former gym teacher who twice flunked out of college, he lived for a time in a trailer behind one of his motels.

The defense portrayed Ebbers as a big-picture CEO with little care for day-to-day details. But how, the government asked, could Ebbers have built a small Mississippi long distance firm into a world player without any knowledge of the company's finances? And why would an above-the-fray cheerleader keep such close tabs on operations, even cutting off free employee coffee to save money?

At his peak, Ebbers was worth nearly $1.5 billion. The so-called telecom cowboy owned a yacht, vast swathes of timberland, a minor league hockey team and Canada's largest cattle ranch. He was seen as a charitable man, giving $100 million to his church and college.

Ebbers never used e-mail, and prosecutors couldn't produce a smoking gun tying him to the $11 billion fraud. Still, jurors decided the man who acquired WorldCom and MCI must have been aware of crimes taking place under his nose. And as other accused CEOs must have noticed, for Ebbers no clue was no defense.

(END VIDEOTAPE) K. DOLAN: Yes, you made a great point, Daria. I think the greatest point in the voiceover you just did you was you can't take it from a small Mississippi telecom company to a world class company without knowing what the numbers are. Especially if you're counting coffee -- you're counting coffee bags.

D. DOLAN: Which is why, I think, people like Ken Lay are starting to get a little nervous, because he was using that defense all along. And with a Ph.D. in economics, I think Ken Lay's going to have a hard time trying to get a jury convinced.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: The jury, interestingly enough, it was Bernard Ebbers on the stand.

K. DOLAN: Yes, isn't that funny?

D. DOLAN: Because they didn't trust Scott Sullivan's testimony, the CFO's, all that much either.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: It was his attitude and testimony on the stand that pretty much pushed them over the -- over on to the guilty side of the ledger.

K. DOLAN: You know, what the jury is basically saying -- I didn't talk with them, but what they're basically saying with the verdict, Daria, is simply that ignorance at this level cannot be tolerated. You can't do it.

D. DOLAN: Now, for all of those people...

K. DOLAN: All right.

D. DOLAN: ... and there was an interesting cartoon that ran in one of the papers, I think a Mississippi paper, as a matter of fact, showing the headlines of Bernie Ebbers 85 years potential in prison, and the husband looking at his stock portfolio, his retirement account saying, "Well, he gets 85 years, but my retirement get the death penalty." You can absolutely never, ever fall prey to what so many people did with the Enrons and the WorldComs if you make an absolute rule to never put more than 5 percent of your company's stock in your 401k.

K. DOLAN: Exactly right. To depend on, you know, sort of your job and your retirement from the same problem is a real, real problem.

D. DOLAN: And take a look at the business section once in a while. Because if you saw this week's "New York Times," you would have known you were look at a police gazette blotter, not a business section.

K. DOLAN: Quite amazing.

D. DOLAN: They have all of the trials that are about to come. We have the Ebbers announcement of the jury verdict.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: The SEC bringing charges against the ex-guy at Qwest.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: And last, but not least, even old Warren was...

K. DOLAN: Can't avoid a cloud.

D. DOLAN: ... might have a little cloud because of his insurance schemes.

K. DOLAN: Let's move right along. It leads us to this week's "Threebies" to learn more about, well, what we're talking about, class action absolute lawsuits. Check out classactionfaq.org.

D. DOLAN: Now, to research ongoing class action cases, you can log on to securities.stanford.edu.

K. DOLAN: And for objective stock research, our favorite site simply is something we've liked for years, and that is valueline.com. So there you go.

So I think there is a -- is a -- there's a story, there's a story in understanding what you invest in before you do it.

D. DOLAN: And to sum it up, my 30 cents worth for the week.

If you live in the state of Florida, start saving your old newspapers. You're going to need them if one moronic legislator gets his new 2-cent tax on toilet paper.

He proposes this for upgrades on sewer systems. Well, isn't this why Floridians pay extremely high property tacks already?

On the other side, however, Governor Bush fears people will use less TP with the tax. Come on, Gov. Do you really think Floridians will start bringing (UNINTELLIGIBLE) into the john with them? This is the kind of debate that comes with too much time on politician's hands. It's time to pull the chain on some political careers.

K. DOLAN: Oh, thank you. Thank you, Daria. All right.

Moving right along, earlier this week, several major league ball players and the commissioner of Major League Baseball showed up in Washington to testify about possible steroid use by players. Well, I'm not sure why Washington's so concerned about steroid use -- we talked about it before -- when things like the overwhelming budget deficit totally out of control, Medicare system looms so menacingly over our pocketbooks. But, nonetheless, it's a shame that some of our kids' role models and some of our own kids are so committed to excel and succeed at any cost they have to resort to pills, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and needles to reach those lofty and unreasonable goals.

Whatever happened to fair play?

D. DOLAN: And that's it. Have a great weekend, everybody.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired March 19, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: And we want to take you live now to Homosassa Springs, Florida. You are looking at a live picture of Sheriff Jeff Dawsy speaking to reporters.
SHERIFF JEFF DAWSY, CITRUS COUNTY, FLORIDA: Good morning.

First, my thoughts, prayers and sorrow goes out to the family. I have had a conversation with Jessica's mom this morning. And I had a conversation with Mark and the grandparents this morning.

As you well know, there was a lot of activity here throughout the evening. And in the early morning hours, somewhere between 3:30 and 4:30, we recovered Jessica. And Jessica right now is in Leesburg and will be there for a period of time.

As you also well know -- and I apologize for some of the hesitation -- as you also well know, we asked for your help in finding four individuals and we did locate all four of them. We have charged Gene Secord (ph), who has nothing to do with the case, but it's a name that came out of the residence, with writ of attachment. Basically, he failed to pay his child support. So we arrested him last night.

And then we arrested these three individuals -- and Rhonda will be more than glad to help you, or Gail (ph) would be more than glad to help you -- Maddie Secord (ph), Matthew Detrick (ph) and Dorothy Dixon (ph) all with obstruction. Obstruction based on the fact that Couey told them he was wanted and they failed to tell us.

And I can tell you, I will have conversations with the state attorney's office, you can bank it. We're not going to plea bargain this if I have anything to do with it. They will serve 11-29, OK?

In reference to Couey, my staff is en route to bring that individual back here. I have some terminology I'd like to use, but we're en route to bring him back home.

With that, I'll turn it over to some questions.

QUESTION: Sheriff, you said that you have Jessica. Did you find her entire body or did you just find a portion of that?

DAWSY: Jessica is with us, all of Jessica.

QUESTION: Where was she found?

DAWSY: At the residence that's directly behind me. Well, maybe not directly behind me, but you'll see where my crime scene truck is.

QUESTION: So she was found there at residence?

(CROSSTALK)

DAWSY: In that particular area. Again, remember, I'm going to have to be guarded in what I say because now I'm building a capital case against this individual.

QUESTION: Did Mark have to ID that body?

DAWSY: No, no. We are not that far yet.

QUESTION: Sheriff, can you give us an idea of how he (UNINTELLIGIBLE), how he got around the house? I mean, how did she -- how did he get to her?

DAWSY: We are -- we have that information, but right now because of the criminal investigation we are guarding that. And when I think it's appropriate, I will be back to release it to you.

QUESTION: Sheriff, were there other people...

QUESTION: Sheriff, these people charged with obstruction, do you believe that they had knowledge of the murder?

DAWSY: If I can prove that, I assure you I will charge them with conspiracy. We were with them into the very early hours. In talking to my investigators, they told me that they do not believe it.

Remember something. These are a bunch of cracked-out individuals. And I can just tell you that I -- we right now don't believe that. But I am not going to let that go. They understand they have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) direction to try to see if they knew anything about it.

QUESTION: A quick follow-up. What do you mean by "cracked-out?"

DAWSY: Just a bunch of druggies.

QUESTION: The community has expressed outrage over what they say is an abundant number of sexual offenders registered in this area. What are your thoughts to that?

DAWSY: I'm not going to address that right now. I don't know what "abundant" is. I don't know what's inappropriate. I don't have control over that.

QUESTION: Sheriff, your thoughts on Jessica's body being found so close to her home when there were all of these volunteers and law enforcement and dogs looking for her?

DAWSY: Frustration, disappointment, failure.

QUESTION: Sheriff, this has hit really home for you. You have a 9-year-old daughter. When you got the news that your investigators were on to something back there...

DAWSY: Well, actually, a 9-year-old little boy. But...

QUESTION: Sorry.

DAWSY: No, that's fine. That's fine. I have a daughter and another son. But a flood of emotions.

QUESTION: Sheriff, how much did you search in that area during the search, like the first couple of weeks? Was that area thoroughly searched?

DAWSY: This whole area was thoroughly searched.

QUESTION: Did bloodhound go over there?

DAWSY: Bloodhounds were all over this area. You know, I'm not an expert by any means on handling of the animals, but, you know, there's different levels.

You know, there's cadaver dogs. You give them a specific location. There's scent dogs, and that's the ones that can go out there and scent it. And then there's my tracker working dogs. And nobody led us to that area.

QUESTION: Sheriff, we were over there just a couple of days ago getting video of a mobile home. We saw a shovel sitting next to the mobile home. Do you believe that that shovel was used in covering up the crime? And the second thing is, do you believe members of the media walking over there may have trampled your crime scene?

DAWSY: No, no. You didn't trample the crime scene. And I don't know.

QUESTION: How about the shovel?

DAWSY: I don't know about the shovel.

QUESTION: Sheriff, do you have a time frame on when Jessie was killed?

DAWSY: No, I do not know that yet.

QUESTION: Sheriff, there's been some speculation...

QUESTION: Sheriff, did you say the body was found inside the house or outside?

DAWSY: I'm sorry, what?

QUESTION: Can you state whether the body was found inside or outside?

DAWSY: Outside.

QUESTION: Under? QUESTION: There's been some speculation from just neighbors that possibly the Lunsfords knew Couey, and you said in the past that wasn't the case. Are you still standing by that?

DAWSY: There is not a relationship, OK? We're not sure at this particular point, and there's a possibility because of these actions that he may have interacted with Jessica. But there's no relationship between Couey and this family.

QUESTION: Sheriff, was there a time frame for when she was taken to being kept somewhere and then killed? Or how was -- what was the time frame?

DAWSY: I can't release that right now because I really don't have a true time frame. You know, this guy is not a quality person by any means. And, you know, he is also, to my knowledge, a crack head. And I don't think we're actually ever going to be able to get a valid timeline about him. He's truly a piece of trash.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you think there was any involvement...

DAWSY: I can't tell you that.

QUESTION: The other people living in the house, do we think that they might have been aware and involved that Jessica was in the house?

DAWSY: If they were, I'll charge them with conspiracy. But we don't believe so.

QUESTION: What do you want to see happen to Mr. Couey, Sheriff?

DAWSY: The death penalty.

QUESTION: Sheriff, how did Jessica die?

DAWSY: I can't tell you that.

QUESTION: Sheriff, did investigators speak with everybody in that house on day one or day two of this investigation?

DAWSY: We are still formulating that, OK? We know we were in that house at a certain date and Jessica was not in that house. And it was in a very short period of time from when Jessica turned up missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One last question.

DAWSY: One more question.

QUESTION: Sheriff, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the Lunsford home (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

DAWSY: I can't answer that.

QUESTION: So all the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are called off?

DAWSY: I'm sorry. What, sir?

QUESTION: All the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are called off?

DAWSY: Yes, all the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are called off.

Thank you very much. I will be back in touch.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) any remorse at all in giving you details? Sheriff, any kind of remorse for what he did?

DAWSY: He apologized to us for wasting our time, but I don't know of any other remorse.

I'll be back in touch.

QUESTION: Can you tell us where they were found, Sheriff?

DAWSY: Who?

KAYE: All right. Just to recap, if you are just joining us, you've been listening to a live press conference there with Citrus County Sheriff Jeff Dawsy. He had a few things to say about the suspect in the case here, the disappearance of 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford.

The suspect, John Couey, referring to him, as "a piece of trash" and saying that he would like to see him get the death penalty. He also did report that between 3:30 and 4:30 this morning the body of Jessica Lunsford was found very close to her own home.

He couldn't give us an exact location there on the property. But it was found on the property where the suspect, John Couey, reportedly told investigators to search.

When asked about if it was her entire body or parts of her remains, all the sheriff would simply say is, "Jessica is with us." As you know, we had some reports earlier this morning from our Susan Candiotti reporting from two sources that remains of Jessica had been found, partial remains, in fact.

So let's now take another listen to Mark Lunsford. He is Jessica's father. As you saw there in that press conference, a lot of emotion involved in this case. The sheriff, himself, getting emotional, and Jessica's father, as well, emotional earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK LUNSFORD, JESSICA'S FATHER: I just want to say to everybody, to my community, to everyone that's seen Jessie's picture, that everyone heard me say time after time that she would be home. She's home now, and it's over. And now we have a new struggle. And I need more people to support now the efforts that we try to make to change things. I love everybody for helping, for supporting, for even talking about it. But Jessie's home now and she's right here with me. And she knows, she knows it all.

And all of the parents out there, I know everybody does, but do it more often. Make sure you get that hug and kiss every day before you leave that house.

I did. I got mine. You just make sure you get yours. And remember, love your children this much and no one or nothing will come between you and them.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Listening there to a very emotional Mark Lunsford, the father of 9-year-old Jessica, after speaking to reporters there for the first time after learning that his 9-year-old daughter is indeed not coming home.

We want to talk now with Marc Klaas, who's on the phone with us from San Francisco. Marc is the father of Polly Klaas. You may remember that case, a very high-profile kidnapping and murder of a very young girl.

Marc, good to have you with us.

MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Thank you.

KAYE: I hate to take you back to that time in your own life, it's been more than 20 years since you lost your daughter. But can you give us an idea of what Mark Lunsford is going through at this moment?

KLAAS: Well, actually, it's been 12 years. But first, I would like to extend my deepest and most heartfelt condolence to Mark and his family. Unfortunately, I do know what they're going through.

And I can tell you this, that, like Mark, we ran on adrenaline for quite some period of time and we were very, very hopeful that Polly was alive. Now, besides hope, the main emotion during that entire search for Polly was fear, fear that she would be -- that she was being harmed by somebody.

What we found out, ultimately, as Mark did, is that she probably didn't live very long at all after she was abducted. That she was probably raped and murdered within an hour or two. So he knows that nobody has been hurting her. His fear has been replaced by profound anger, an anger that is pretty much off of the emotion scale.

In our situation, when we found out that Polly had bin kidnapped -- or, I'm sorry, that Polly's remains had been recovered and that there had been an admission to the crime, although I understood it intellectually it didn't really strike the emotional nerve for a couple of hours. There were people around me that were crying, that were obviously visibly upset. But it almost seemed to go right over the top of my head.

I would say about two hours later, however, the whole emotional impact of -- of -- of the cataclysmic revelations became -- became, I don't know, manifested like so deep in my soul that I just felt like I was going to explode. I just -- I -- this is hard even to talk about just having watched Mark. But you experience the kind of emotions nobody should ever have to experience.

And it's all simply because people exist. And oftentimes we seem to protect the evil over the rights of the innocent.

KAYE: And if you could, just take us a little bit deeper into that cycle of grief. Mark Lunsford now three weeks into it, you're 12 years into it. How does that grief change over the years, or does it not?

KLAAS: Well, we've already seen by what Mark said just a few minutes ago that he's going to try to make something happen out of this, that he's going to try to create some kind of meaning out of Jessica's death and try to create a legacy in her name that will be protective of other children and that will be meaningful. And I think that's the first big important step, because there's really three ways somebody can go after a situation like this.

You can either lose yourself in depression, alcoholism or drug addiction. Obviously that's a loser's choice all the way around.

The other -- another option would be just to go into some kind of a denial and sort of try to pretend that it didn't happen. And believe me, there's a payoff down the road for that.

The other final option, and the one that is most successful for people, is to fight back. And that's to make sure that what happened to your child doesn't happen to other children. That way you can give meaning to the death, that way you can finally beat the bad guy, whereas the other two ways the bad guy beats you. But this is a process that can take a long, long time.

I was lucky. I have a wonderful wife and a wonderful family. And they've been able to sustain me, and we've been able to sustain each other through the ordeal. I would say it was after maybe eight or nine years that we were able to finally start appreciating the beautiful things that life has to offer again and put our lives on a very positive track and not live in the shadow of grief every moment.

KAYE: All right. Marc Klaas, thank you for your time and your insight today.

And we want to take you back now to Florida, to Homosassa Springs, where Sara Dorsey is on the scene, having just heard Sheriff Jeff Dawsy speaking there.

Sara, what can you tell us more?

SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you it sounds like the search for Jessica Lunsford's body is indeed over. We are told that she is in Leesburg, that an autopsy is pending and it could sake several days for that.

When asked if they found the entire body, the sheriff said just that "We have Jessica." But he had some very choice words for John Couey, the man who confessed to this crime. He called him "a piece of trash" and said he wants to see this man get the death penalty.

The sheriff was leading up the investigation the entire three weeks. And throughout this, you know, was telling us how frustrated he was that he had all of these great resources, people coming in from other states to help them, and still there were very few leads.

Now, this home is only 200 yards away from the Lunsford home where Jessica's body was found. Searchers have been all over this area with dogs, on foot. And the sheriff just stood out here in front of us and said he's just frustrated.

It actually almost seemed like he was tearing up when he said that, frustrated that they had looked in that area and could not find this girl's body. It took a confession from that convicted serial killer to lead investigators to that area. But once they got the general area to search in, it didn't take them too long to find Jessica Lunsford.

About 2:30 in the morning, according to the sheriff, her body was found. Of course the confession came earlier in the afternoon. So not too long for investigators to get in there.

This has been a tough three weeks for this entire community. Last night we had community members showing up with candles, putting on an impromptu vigil for Jessica.

You know, we've had searchers out here since the very beginning. Some 400 and 500 searchers came out in the beginning, and this is only a community of about 2,000 people. So you can really see, this is really striking home with the sheriff, of course the family of this lost little girl, and the entire community here who was searching so desperately and hoping to bring her home alive -- Randi.

KAYE: All right. Sara Dorsey for us in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Thank you very much.

We want to check back in now with Susan Candiotti, who is in Augusta, Georgia. That is where the suspect in this case, John Couey, is being held. We spoke with Susan earlier today, just a short time ago, and she was reporting some breaking news for us on the remains of Jessica Lunsford being found.

Susan, have you heard anything else? Susan, can you hear me?

OK. OK. We'll get back to Susan Candiotti in Augusta, Georgia, as soon as we can.

In the meantime, let's listen once again to what Sheriff Jeff Dawsy had to say just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAWSY: Good morning.

First, my thoughts, prayers and sorrow goes out to the family. I have had a conversation with Jessica's mom this morning. And I had a conversation with Mark and the grandparents this morning.

As you well know, there was a lot of activity here throughout the evening. And in the early morning hours, somewhere between 3:30 and 4:30, we recovered Jessica. And Jessica right now is in Leesburg and will be there for a period of time.

As you also well know -- and I apologize for some of the hesitation -- as you also well know, we asked for your help in finding four individuals and we did locate all four of them. We have charged Gene Secord (ph), who has nothing to do with the case, but it's a name that came out of the residence, with writ of attachment. Basically, he failed to pay his child support. So we arrested him last night.

And then we arrested these three individuals -- and Rhonda will be more than glad to help you, or Gail (ph) would be more than glad to help you -- Maddie Secord (ph), Matthew Detrick (ph) and Dorothy Dixon (ph) all with obstruction. based on the fact that Couey told them he was wanted and they failed to tell us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: All right. Want to break right there and now take you to Susan Candiotti, who is joining us by phone from Augusta, Georgia.

Good morning again, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Randi.

KAYE: What can you tell us the latest from there? That is, where the suspect in this case, John Couey, is being held.

CANDIOTTI: Well, we learned from the sheriff, in his words, Sheriff Dawsy, "We're en route to bring him back home." So let's remind everyone where we stand with John Couey.

He is currently under a suicide watch at the Richmond County Jail in Augusta, Georgia, where he has been since he was arrested at a Salvation Army -- just outside a Salvation Army homeless shelter on Thursday. Now, he was in town for a couple of days, and after he was arrested investigators interviewed him for more than 11 or 12 hours over the course of those two days.

And it was yesterday afternoon, just before 4:00 in the afternoon, when he was being interviewed and after he had been given a polygraph that he told authorities, you don't have to wait for the results, I'm going to tell you more. And at that time, police say, he confessed to abducting and killing Jessica Lunsford.

Now, remember that earlier in the day yesterday there was a brief face-to-face meeting between John Couey and a local magistrate at the jail. He was told that he had the right to an attorney and, according to the judge, who spoke with me afterwards, he said that John Couey waived his right to a lawyer. In the judge's words, he seemed like a nice guy, didn't seem to have a care in the world, as the judge put it, and he waived his right and said that he would return voluntarily to Florida.

Remember, he is being held currently on probation violation charges for failing to tell police that he was leaving Florida when he bought a bus ticket using a fake name, leaving Florida after Jessica disappeared, and got on a bus to Savannah, Georgia, and then went tonight Augusta. So they're holding him on those probation violation charges.

Theoretically, authorities do have the legal right now to pick him up and bring him back to Florida, where presumably authorities are putting together charges in connection with this case --Randi.

KAYE: All right. Susan Candiotti reporting for us from Augusta, Georgia. Thank you.

As you can imagine, you've seen the pictures this morning, Mark Lunsford, the father of 9-year-old Jessica, in tears. This has been a very, emotional three weeks for the Lunsford family. They are feeling pain and grief that families throughout this country, many of them, most of them, luckily, will never know.

We talked with Marc Klaas earlier this morning. We also now would like to speak with Ed Smart. He is the father of Elizabeth Smart. You may remember, Elizabeth Smart was taken from her home in Utah right out of her bedroom, very similar to the Lunsford case.

Ed, good morning to you.

TOM SMART, DAUGHTER ABDUCTED FROM HOME: Good morning. I am Tom Smart, Ed's brother.

KAYE: Oh, Tom Smart. OK. I apologize for that. Tom Smart joining us. So you would be Elizabeth's uncle.

SMART: I am Elizabeth's uncle. Ed apparently wasn't available this morning.

KAYE: OK. Well, we're happy to have you joining us.

If you could, talk a little bit about what the Lunsford family is going through. Luckily, Elizabeth was found safe and sound. It had been quite some time. But I guess, first, if you could, just touch on what the waiting was like, the not knowing.

SMART: Well, I think that talking to several families, including ours, really the hell of not knowing is probably a deeper hell than finally finding the truth. And, in fact, Jeff Runnion (ph). who lost his daughter Rachel (ph) 22 years ago, at his funeral said, you know, "It's a sick day when the biggest blessing you ever get in life is a dead daughter." And that's a little bit about the relief of what happens, I think, for a family to at least know the truth. And we were so fortunate to get our life back and to have Elizabeth back that, you know, it was truly a miracle that every family deserves and few get. But I think that in that situation we certainly were praying to get Elizabeth back. But what you really pray for is to find the truth. And I think there's probably some relief in the Lunsford family today as well.

KAYE: And when you look at those pictures of Mark Lunsford on the video there, speaking with reporters, addressing them at the microphone, really struggling emotionally, what do you feel for him?

SMART: Well, nothing but compassion for any family that has to go through this hell. And, you know, it brings back a lot of memories of everything.

And, you know, we were very, very fortunate. And, you know, I salute my brother and other people who are advocates out there trying to make sure that this happens -- should never happen. That it happens less than it is.

KAYE: All right. Tom Smart, the uncle of Elizabeth Smart, speaking with us by phone from Utah. Thank you for your time this morning.

We want to go back now to Florida, Homosassa Springs, Florida, where Sara Dorsey is live for us, has been there for a few days now.

Sara, we heard Sheriff Jeff Dawsy talk, he was -- he wouldn't go too far in describing exactly where he said Jessica Lunsford's remains were found. You've been there. You've been on the scene there. Could you help us out just a little bit in describing exactly where and maybe how close they might have been to her own home or possibly where John Couey was staying?

DORSEY: Absolutely. And, in fact, I'm going to move out of the way. I want you to be able to get a better picture. And I'm going to have my photographer kind of zoom in here for a second.

It's over my shoulder here. There is a trailer. You can see a crime scene investigation van.

That was the place that investigators pinpointed and went right to yesterday after that confession came through. You can see an awning, a blue awning. That's a tent put up by investigators.

We believe the body was found near the stairs, which would be consistent to where that particular tent is set up. Dawsy would not go into a lot of detail about that. It is still an ongoing investigation. We have still seen searchers back there, we would gather, collecting any additional evidence that might be around in that area.

But to the Lunsford home, this trailer is only really across the street, kind of cattycorner to it. I would say about 200 yards. You can certainly see the Lunsford home from the trailer and vice versa. It's not far at all. And investigators were all over that area. They were all over the Lunsford home, and they worked out in a circle. That's normal protocol with a missing child, and that's exactly what they did. They don't know why they did not find this little girl until the confession, though -- Randi.

KAYE: You can imagine, though, having searched for three weeks how frustrating knowing that she was right there. All right. Sara Dorsey live for us in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Thanks so much.

We are going to take a break here. But we do want to let you know that here on CNN we will continue to update you with the very latest developments in this case. We will take a break here, and you will find DOLANS UNSCRIPTED on the other side of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the Time Warner Center in New York City with their take on the news, Ken and Daria Dolan.

KEN DOLAN, CO-HOST: Yes, hi, everybody. How are you?

Usually we're a wacky, happy bunch here on DOLANS UNSCRIPTED. They're always telling me, take it easy, don't get so crazy all of the time. But I will tell you this, it's tough doing a show after hearing the news of Jessica Lunsford.

I'm a parent, and you don't have to be a parent. But I'll tell you, I was absolutely choked up seeing the dad. And I'm a dad myself of my daughter, who may be -- who may be watching. And boy, when he said kiss and hug your kid every day, talk about words to live.

I'll tell you one thing -- anyway, this -- anyway, we're DOLANS UNSCRIPTED. It's sort of the abbreviated version as we talk about a whole bunch of family issues and a whole bunch of stuff going on in the news.

I'm just choked up. And I'm a six foot -- I'm a big guy. I'm 6'4." I can take care of myself. I feel like somebody just kicked me in the gut.

DARIA DOLAN, CO-HOST: Well, you know, as a mother...

K. DOLAN: When the police guy broke up and the hugs, I said -- you know, I want to see where these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people are, Daria, when they're talking at a penitentiary.

D. DOLAN: Ken, as a mother I am so angry at this from the standpoint -- we heard from Polly Klaas' father, we heard from the Smart family.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: We heard from Jessica Lunsford's father. What kind of country are we when we allow these recidivists who attack our children? If we cannot protect our children... K. DOLAN: Who can we protect?

D. DOLAN: ... then we are not very much of a society at all. For all of our entrepreneurism and our capitalism and our democracy, there is no democracy in re-releasing these recidivists to the streets of this country to strike children over and over again.

K. DOLAN: This guy's arrested 37 times! How many damn...

D. DOLAN: Well, it wasn't all on children. It was a number of burglaries.

K. DOLAN: He's a registered sex molester.

D. DOLAN: He is.

K. DOLAN: Why don't we get tougher? Damn, I'm so mad!

For gods sakes, let's start getting tough with these people. Our kids aren't safe. The kid's asleep!

D. DOLAN: Well, the interesting thing is, as we look at the news that we planned on covering here on DOLANS UNSCRIPTED today, it seems to have a lot to do with children. Because the fight over Terri Schiavo's life continues following the removal of the feeding tube yesterday.

K. DOLAN: That's right. You've seen in the news a Florida judge denied a request by a House committee -- please, give me a break -- to keep Schiavo on life support, saying the legislative bodies have no place in court proceedings.

D. DOLAN: The Schiavo case has highlighted the importance of living wills and clear instructions for the end of life. And yes, in fact this could have all been averted had -- if, in fact, there was a discussion at all between Michael Schiavo and his wife...

K. DOLAN: On a living will.

D. DOLAN: ... about how she would want to be treated in the situation.

K. DOLAN: Yes. But our good friend Tony Harris made a point yesterday, Daria. When you're in your 20s -- and I'm guessing she's 41 now, 15 years -- 26 or 27 years old, when you talk about living wills you can always look back at it in retrospect.

Clearly, you're right, a living would have taken an awful lot of this pressure off this whole case. Yet we have to realize that even the youngsters, people in their 20s, especially getting married should take a look at a living will. Can you imagine DeLay and Blunt -- just let me finish.

D. DOLAN: Well...

K. DOLAN: Let me finish. DeLay, Blunt and Mica and the House subpoena wants to go to the hospice to see if she's being taken care of, and if, in fact, she really is in a persistent vegetative state? Who the hell do they think they are in Washington, doctors too?

D. DOLAN: Well, the fact of the matter is, I have a little story to share with everybody.

K. DOLAN: I shouldn't have said "hell." I'm sorry.

D. DOLAN: And mom, I hope you will walk out of the room for a couple of minutes because I don't want to get you upset on a day like this. But nonetheless, my mother and I were in the hospital with my dad, who had a living will, a durable health care proxy. And we were approached by the doctor and by hospice regarding whether to pull the feeding tube or not.

And when you see this argument carried out and played over and over in the press as it is now, and to have the Congress of the United States weigh in on something they know absolutely nothing about, it sickens me. And it sickened me this morning as I was going through the news for the program preparation to have to relive a very simple fact that even when you have that health care proxy and the person has specifically said they don't want any unusual resuscitation, you relive and second guess yourself the rest of your life.

And to make a media circus out of this for the Congress of the United States -- and with the media, yes, with us carrying this back and forth, over and over again between the Schiavo and Schindler families, is unforgivable. And that's my peace on that.

K. DOLAN: Wasn't there a problem with the living will that your dad had, with the durable power of attorney that your dad had done? Didn't they have trouble finding it potentially or something like that?

D. DOLAN: Yes, when he stopped breathing a week before they couldn't find it and they resuscitated him.

K. DOLAN: You know, I'm not a Libertarian, but let me just tell you something. And you can tell me -- you can weigh in, you can e- mail us, we can talk about it next week because we're short of time today.

Let me tell you something everybody across America. And guys, you agree or you disagree with me? If something happens to my most wonderful wife, the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me, Tom DeLay in Washington is not going to tell me how to -- is not going to tell me how to treat my wife if she gets in the position that Terri Schiavo's in. That's the end of that story.

D. DOLAN: But a heads up for all of you out there that have taken the precautions on durable health care proxies to be aware that the latest federal -- and this is what happens when the federal government gets involved. The latest regulations that come out of the Department of Health and Human Services is basically putting doctors and medical people and hospitals in the delicate position of not knowing whether in fact they can even tell a designated health care person the information that would allow them to make an intelligent decision in life and death matters.

K. DOLAN: Right.

D. DOLAN: So if you have one of these in place, thanks to the HIPAA law, please go back to your attorney this week and make sure that you sign another paper which will say that, in fact, the doctor will be free of lawsuit, the medical staff and hospital will be free of any litigation if they tell your designated person the situation of your health.

K. DOLAN: All right. Let's move on, Daria. May we?

All right. After a six-week trial and eight days of jury deliberations -- wow, what an interesting trial -- you heard the former WorldCom CEO Bernie Ebbers is now facing up to 85 years in prison.

D. DOLAN: That's right. A federal jury convicted Ebbers on all nine counts. And he helped mastermind the huge accounting scandal that led to the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history.

K. DOLAN: Yes. Legal expert says the 63-year-old Ebbers could be behind bars for the rest of his life. Sentencing scheduled for the middle of June -- I think June 13. Ebbers will appeal the verdict.

Of course we'll have more to say on this late a little bit later in the show. So you may want to stick around for that. We'll talk about it.

D. DOLAN: Important stuff to say regarding your pocketbook and how you can keep from having your retirement go up in smoke in a situation like this.

And there's lots of news this week to go into a little segment that we like to refer to as "Social Insecurity."

K. DOLAN: As President Bush continues touting -- as President Bush -- as President Bush begins -- continues touting his ambitious plan for overhauling the system he was dealt a symbolic blow, for sure. The Senate put his Social Security proposal to a test vote and it split right down the middle: 50 yes's, 50 no's, and five Republicans joined the 44 Democrats and one Independent in the nay vote.

D. DOLAN: And there are also rumblings around the beltway that the president's plan is losing some steam. And the man himself backed off a little bit this week with his idea of private accounts. So take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These accounts do not permanently fix Social Security. We're going to have to do other things. They are a part of a Social Security fix that will help the individual worker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

K. DOLAN: President Bush, please, please, stop floating this stuff. What's your plan? What is your plan for saving Social Security?

Stop with the three trips next week and, please, start concentrating on stuff. Not that Social Security's not important. We realize something has to be done. Privatizing ain't going to save it. What's going to help?

D. DOLAN: Well, it's the problem that...

K. DOLAN: Why am I so angry? I'm in a bad mood today.

D. DOLAN: It's an afterstep to the whole process of Social Security.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: First, fix the exiting product, because that does need help. It needs to be changed. It needs to be tweaked or we're going to have problems for our children's children.

But you don't start with something totally new to try and fix an existing problem. Personal accounts may make a lot of sense, but that's step two. You need to do step one first.

K. DOLAN: Does Medicare, Medicaid, tax reform, minimum wage and an out of control budget mean -- make any sense to anybody down there?

D. DOLAN: Well, also, this week, federal chairman Alan Greenspan was uncharacteristically direct when he commented on Social Security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN GREENSPAN, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: I believe that a thorough review of our commitments and at least some adjustments in those commitments is urgently need. The necessary adjustments will become evermore difficult and larger the longer we delay. No changes will be easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

K. DOLAN: Oh, please!

D. DOLAN: Well he's...

(CROSSTALK)

K. DOLAN: Same old...

D. DOLAN: ... calling for raising the age of retirement and increasing taxes.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: Which is something that would not be a good -- good help to the economy. But, you know, before we move on...

K. DOLAN: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Talk is cheap.

Yes, we have to do something or the thing's going to go bankrupt. Yes, we're going to have to do something or by the year 2042 we can only pay 73 percent of the current benefit level.

OK, OK, OK! What's your plan? Give me a plan.

D. DOLAN: Well, we...

K. DOLAN: I don't need Greenspan telling me we've got a problem. I'm hearing it 17 times a day on the news.

D. DOLAN: I'm going to let you take us out of this break.

K. DOLAN: Before we move on, we just wanted to share this amusing snippet -- did I say "amusing" -- from Alan Greenspan this week. I never thought I'd use the word funny to mention Greenspan and Social Security, by the way, in the same sentence, but certainly I've been proven wrong before. In fact, many times. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREENSPAN: It would not be a bad idea to move the whole Social Security operation to the West Coast, get it out of Washington, maybe even rename it so that nobody would discover where it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

K. DOLAN: What's that all about? He's writing like a comedy routine or something. Send it to the West Coast?

D. DOLAN: Well, we could rename it.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: Yes.

K. DOLAN: All right.

D. DOLAN: You know, jamba juice. That came from the West, East. So we'll send jamba juice from the East back to the West again.

K. DOLAN: All right. What's up next?

D. DOLAN: Well, up next, the NCAA is cracking down on college teams that didn't make the grade. The details of the controversial plan right from the top will be next. The president of NCAA after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

K. DOLAN: Hey, nice shot of New York City, Will (ph). Well done. Sixty-five college basketball teams, including my Boston College Eagles, have one goal, make it St. Louis and the final four for the players' championship, which could lead to a career in the NBA, maybe. But the colleges see a much, much bigger payday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

K. DOLAN (voice-over): March Madness, it is sweeping college campuses, sports bars and offices across the country. As student athletes become superstars...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the three knocked down...

K. DOLAN: ... the college game has become big business. CBS is paying $6 billion to air NCAA basketball games through 2014. Advertisers spend up to $1 million for a 30-second commercial during the championship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sponsored by Nivea for Men.

K. DOLAN: Revenues from basketball helped the NCAA dole out over $280 million to colleges last year. Winning championships brings more money from the NCAA and more money from alumni donors. But building a winning team costs money, and many coaches earn over $1 million a year, more than any college president in the country.

Critics say that with so much money in the college game, academics are taking second place. Only one-third of teams in this year's tournament managed to graduate half of their student athletes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

K. DOLAN: We're very pleased to welcome Myles Brand. He is president of the National Collegiate Athletics Association, the NCAA. He joins us from Indianapolis.

Good morning. How are you?

MYLES BRAND, PRESIDENT, NCAA: Good morning.

K. DOLAN: Nice to have you with us.

BRAND: Thank you.

D. DOLAN: Mr. Brand, I understand you are the first (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to head up a collegiate organization. Why did it take so long to get an educator in front of the NCAA?

BRAND: That's a very good question. The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) commission, the reform commission on intercollegiate athletics, called for this over a decade ago. It did take a long time to get a president, a university president, in this position, you are right.

D. DOLAN: But in the meantime, we find that the graduation rates at a number of the schools are absolutely abysmal. Kentucky, I think, being the worst, with only 8 percent of the team members ever graduating. Connecticut and UConn and Texas at 27 percent.

What is your new academic progress plan?

BRAND: Yes. You know, overall, student athletes graduate at a greater rate than the general student body. But that's not true universally.

For example, in basketball, men's basketball, as you point out, student athletes graduated at a significant lower rate than the general student body. So we've put in place what we call the academic progress rate. That's a real-time measure of academic progress. And we're going to hold teams accountable.

In the past, we've always held student athletes accountable through eligible requirements. Now we're going to hold teams and coaches and schools accountable. And if those student athletes don't graduate at a reasonable rate, they will lose scholarships and hence not be competitive in the future.

K. DOLAN: Mr. Brand, let me tell you something. I absolutely love what you're talking about.

As a former athlete myself, it's a great idea. But it seems to me -- here's the Achilles' heel, and you can bop me on the head if I'm wrong. And that is simply, if you are going to hold me as an athlete or my college or university, our feet to the fire academically, I'm a player, I'm going to take the easiest courses in the world. And an imbecile could get like a C.

BRAND: Well, the question is related to sometimes they say, well, faculty will cheat and others will cheat.

K. DOLAN: yes.

BRAND: Here's the underlying point. Faculty members hold the integrity of the institution in their hands. We have to defend -- depend upon the faculty members of each university to make sure the courses are genuine courses.

We ourselves have to take some steps on the national level. For example, you have to make 20 percent progress toward towards a degree. Introductory courses, basket weaving no longer counts. And you have be prepared coming into college to do college work.

So we've raised the bar both in terms of getting into the institution and making sure that you're making progress card towards a degree to be able to compete. That's different from the way it was when you and I were in school.

D. DOLAN: You know, but, President Brand, it worries me that any instructor that really tries to hold a basketball player, since we're talking basketball right now, or any athlete's feet to the fire in what they're taking, there's going to be some coaches who are making millions of dollars in salary now who are going to come after those teachers. There's going to be a war.

How much clout do you at the NCAA really have?

BRAND: You know, that's myth and anecdotal evidence. The fact of the matter, academic integrity is valued by the schools and by the faculty members. And those faculty members don't sell out.

In the rare cases when we've seen something like that, we prosecute. We prosecute very strongly. Academic integrity is one of the rock-bottom values that we have enforce in college athletics, otherwise we shouldn't be in it at all.

K. DOLAN: President Brand, we only have 20 seconds. But could we raise the bar? Don't you think you should raise the bar a little higher than make 50 percent graduation the goal? It's better than it is, but could you do better than 50?

BRAND: You know, the general student body division, one, graduates at 60 percent. Fifty percent is a start. It's a lot higher than we have now. We're moving forward. That's what counts.

K. DOLAN: Got you.

D. DOLAN: President Myles Brand, thank you so much for joining us. And, of course, I know everybody in America will be watching the games.

BRAND: Good.

D. DOLAN: Thank you.

K. DOLAN: Thank you, president.

BRAND: Thank you.

D. DOLAN: And before we move on, March Madness Dolans style is the focus of our weekly cartoon.

K. DOLAN: Now that's you going up for the dunk? DOLANS UNSCRIPTED and -- wait a minute. You stuffed me there.

Nice work, Mike Chikatilo. Very nice.

The real March -- you played basketball. You played a little basketball in school, didn't you? Girls, you have to dribble twice or something?

D. DOLAN: I did. I was terrible.

K. DOLAN: All right. All right.

D. DOLAN: I was great until I made the team.

Up next, WorldCom's former CEO Bernie Ebbers, he claims he knew nothing of the massive fraud taking place on his watch. Well, now that's he's been convicted, some other corporate chiefs are rethinking their own "I don't know" defense.

K. DOLAN: Oh, boy. But first, here's our weekly Dolans tax break.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

D. DOLAN (voice-over): Want to get your tax refund faster? Well, the best way is to file your tax return now. Then once you have your return in order, make sure you sign up for direct deposit.

Put your bank account number and routing code on your tax return and the IRS will deposit the money right into your account. But don't be tempted to get a loan based on your refund. Interest rates can be close to 100 percent on an annual basis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

D. DOLAN: He's the biggest fish in the biggest corporate fraud in American history, and now he's facing some serious prison time. Here's a closer look at the man who built and broke one of America's top companies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERNIE EBBERS, FMR. WORLDCOM CEO: CEOs in the world today get a lot more credit than what they deserve.

D. DOLAN (voice-over): A Manhattan jury showed Bernie Ebbers just how much credit they think CEOs deserve. Today the Canadian-born entrepreneur faces up to 85 years in prison, convicted of masterminding the largest corporate fraud in U.S. history.

Bernie Ebbers was not your typical CEO. A former gym teacher who twice flunked out of college, he lived for a time in a trailer behind one of his motels.

The defense portrayed Ebbers as a big-picture CEO with little care for day-to-day details. But how, the government asked, could Ebbers have built a small Mississippi long distance firm into a world player without any knowledge of the company's finances? And why would an above-the-fray cheerleader keep such close tabs on operations, even cutting off free employee coffee to save money?

At his peak, Ebbers was worth nearly $1.5 billion. The so-called telecom cowboy owned a yacht, vast swathes of timberland, a minor league hockey team and Canada's largest cattle ranch. He was seen as a charitable man, giving $100 million to his church and college.

Ebbers never used e-mail, and prosecutors couldn't produce a smoking gun tying him to the $11 billion fraud. Still, jurors decided the man who acquired WorldCom and MCI must have been aware of crimes taking place under his nose. And as other accused CEOs must have noticed, for Ebbers no clue was no defense.

(END VIDEOTAPE) K. DOLAN: Yes, you made a great point, Daria. I think the greatest point in the voiceover you just did you was you can't take it from a small Mississippi telecom company to a world class company without knowing what the numbers are. Especially if you're counting coffee -- you're counting coffee bags.

D. DOLAN: Which is why, I think, people like Ken Lay are starting to get a little nervous, because he was using that defense all along. And with a Ph.D. in economics, I think Ken Lay's going to have a hard time trying to get a jury convinced.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: The jury, interestingly enough, it was Bernard Ebbers on the stand.

K. DOLAN: Yes, isn't that funny?

D. DOLAN: Because they didn't trust Scott Sullivan's testimony, the CFO's, all that much either.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: It was his attitude and testimony on the stand that pretty much pushed them over the -- over on to the guilty side of the ledger.

K. DOLAN: You know, what the jury is basically saying -- I didn't talk with them, but what they're basically saying with the verdict, Daria, is simply that ignorance at this level cannot be tolerated. You can't do it.

D. DOLAN: Now, for all of those people...

K. DOLAN: All right.

D. DOLAN: ... and there was an interesting cartoon that ran in one of the papers, I think a Mississippi paper, as a matter of fact, showing the headlines of Bernie Ebbers 85 years potential in prison, and the husband looking at his stock portfolio, his retirement account saying, "Well, he gets 85 years, but my retirement get the death penalty." You can absolutely never, ever fall prey to what so many people did with the Enrons and the WorldComs if you make an absolute rule to never put more than 5 percent of your company's stock in your 401k.

K. DOLAN: Exactly right. To depend on, you know, sort of your job and your retirement from the same problem is a real, real problem.

D. DOLAN: And take a look at the business section once in a while. Because if you saw this week's "New York Times," you would have known you were look at a police gazette blotter, not a business section.

K. DOLAN: Quite amazing.

D. DOLAN: They have all of the trials that are about to come. We have the Ebbers announcement of the jury verdict.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: The SEC bringing charges against the ex-guy at Qwest.

K. DOLAN: Yes.

D. DOLAN: And last, but not least, even old Warren was...

K. DOLAN: Can't avoid a cloud.

D. DOLAN: ... might have a little cloud because of his insurance schemes.

K. DOLAN: Let's move right along. It leads us to this week's "Threebies" to learn more about, well, what we're talking about, class action absolute lawsuits. Check out classactionfaq.org.

D. DOLAN: Now, to research ongoing class action cases, you can log on to securities.stanford.edu.

K. DOLAN: And for objective stock research, our favorite site simply is something we've liked for years, and that is valueline.com. So there you go.

So I think there is a -- is a -- there's a story, there's a story in understanding what you invest in before you do it.

D. DOLAN: And to sum it up, my 30 cents worth for the week.

If you live in the state of Florida, start saving your old newspapers. You're going to need them if one moronic legislator gets his new 2-cent tax on toilet paper.

He proposes this for upgrades on sewer systems. Well, isn't this why Floridians pay extremely high property tacks already?

On the other side, however, Governor Bush fears people will use less TP with the tax. Come on, Gov. Do you really think Floridians will start bringing (UNINTELLIGIBLE) into the john with them? This is the kind of debate that comes with too much time on politician's hands. It's time to pull the chain on some political careers.

K. DOLAN: Oh, thank you. Thank you, Daria. All right.

Moving right along, earlier this week, several major league ball players and the commissioner of Major League Baseball showed up in Washington to testify about possible steroid use by players. Well, I'm not sure why Washington's so concerned about steroid use -- we talked about it before -- when things like the overwhelming budget deficit totally out of control, Medicare system looms so menacingly over our pocketbooks. But, nonetheless, it's a shame that some of our kids' role models and some of our own kids are so committed to excel and succeed at any cost they have to resort to pills, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and needles to reach those lofty and unreasonable goals.

Whatever happened to fair play?

D. DOLAN: And that's it. Have a great weekend, everybody.

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